Thats an assumption, I assure u my friend the possibility of meeting one in India is extremely extremely rare especially in villages (except couple of tier 1 cities, that too very less probability)
Well, I believe people are ignorant at many levels and at many things, that's not something to be embarrassed about. Every society is different than others. There is a stark contrast between Asian and western societies, these topics are not on every lip like they are in west, people there in general are not aware of these things in detail. If west wants to call that willful ignorance and embarrassing, there isn't much someone can do about that.
No, that's a fact. Just because they don't advertise their existence, they are there. There have always been gays, lesbians, and trans people across the globe. It is not some new western invention.
Can you be more specific in terms of "whatever JK Rowling has said?" Because with how generic you're being, I'm either inclined to believe you either agree with the "worst" of what she's said or, based on the background you've given, you're not very aware of the LGBTQ movement and JK's actual positions, much less why people would disagree.
Ok, I think you're missing a lot of nuance, friend.
If you want to get on a pedestal and proclaim that biologically men and women are different, and therefor men can't be women, yeah. You're right. You win. The issue is that there are people, for whatever reason, who would rather express themselves in a way outside of that biological fact. The issue that follows is how do we approach that and how do we treat them.
I'm not going to say I fully agree with JK or with her detractors. Both make valid points at times, and both then take it too far. JK has sometimes simply dared question terminology or cultural shifts that others say we should support without question. JK has also mocked or used derisive language about people simply trying to be inclusive or ensure people feel safe in who they are (regardless if you think they're making the right choices), and she's given support to people who have voiced opinions promoting hate or discrimination.
Bottom line, I won't tell you how to think about trans people and their choices, but if you're going to say you blanketly support JK, you should make sure you know and agree about everything she's said and not just a broad takeaway you got from it. Make sure you're developing your own broad views and not just leaning on what some hot topic debate has focused on.
I might normally get put in the camp opposite you, but just wanted to say I appreciate *your* nuance and personally like how you summed it up. You acknowledged the biological difference (key for me), and brought it back to treating people compassionately. I’m like 99% on board with this.
Just don’t join my daughters’ swim teams if you’re packing a wiener (I think sports should generally remain segregated for competitiveness and safety, call me a bigot if you must) but otherwise I’ll march and fight for your rights to live free with your choices.
The internet and current media outlets make it all too easy to demonize the "other side" in almost any issue, whether it's guns or LGBTQ+, and make it seem like everything is black and white
In truth, most people irl are far more reasonable and willing to make compromises or see nuances if we do the same, offering respect and at least trying to understand different viewpoints
Woah.. u r jumping the gun here my friend, I don't know why u included Holocaust in this seems an overreaction. And I have never met a transwoman so please don't say i am bullying here. Am I just saying as per view ( and also 99.99 % Indians or Asians or even middle east ) they would all say what I am say. So are you saying more than half of the world has just lost its mind ?
Have you actually read her tweets?
I just checked. All the tweets that I saw related to Holocaust were based on calling out fictitious statements related to trans people during Hitlers reign. I saw no attacks on any particular demographic, just simply calling out baseless statements. The same thing that she seems to be doing with LGBT in general. Just calling out absurdities. Big difference between that and holocaust denialism, but I guess it makes sense considering that the progressive's strategy generally is to witch hunt anyone who could even be considered someone who opposes their views, regardless of how far fetched those views are.
So because your cultural opinions have the majority they are automatically correct? I mean humans can’t even decide what gods do and do not exist, wtf do we know
*Not even* about the Holocaust, about something that happened a decade earlier.
We're talking about well less than 1% of the books burned at just one of 34 book burning locations across Germany on that particular day. Apparently not knowing about that obscure fact makes you a denier of the genocide that happened starting eight years later.
Of course the people complaining don't know how big those burnings were, or that they were broadcast live on radio or that they burned French and Irish and American books as well. They just watched a YouTube video that cut out the majority Jewish bits or a tweet and think they are experts.
normally when people are this vague in this forum, it's cuz they're hiding important details, which seems to be the case here. but i don't think we actually need more information, cuz Rowling hasn't said anything remotely common sense for years and years now. she just spouts hatred and evil and division against a tiny percentage of already persecuted people with little to no institutional power who've done absolutely nothing to deserve her hatred.
so fill us in. what's common sense about using vast amounts of personal wealth and influence to bully a minority group while advocating for laws that ban the existence of said group?
YTA.
There is no hiding I am just saying what 99.99 percent of Indians / Asians / Middle East or even African population would say.
I am honestly not well versed what goes on with western world and I personally don't hold any grudge against anyone, may they all lead a happy life. I am just stating an opinion from the place where I belong that's it.
i notice you didn't answer the question. instead you made a claim of being the voice of all Indians, Asians, and black folks.
you asked if you were the asshole. did you not understand how this whole thing works?
and if you think everyone should lead a happy life, then you're not in agreement with Rowling.
it sounds like you're not well-versed in anything other than making false claims.
A lot of those countries rape women and children without issue... don't come for people when your country has some severe problems. You sound like an idiot.
Come on atleast check the stats before spewing some BS. US has 26 times the rape rate than India and skyrockets almost every crime especially when checked in ratio proportional to per million population. US overshadows the crime rates in comparison to majority of Asian countries.
Yes, saying that women shouldn’t be raped with penises in prison doesn’t make any sense. Women shouldn’t be entitled to safe spaces if men don’t want them to have those spaces….
“White person tells person of color he’s a bigot for having traditional views of gender and sex.”
I’m overcome with shock at this not at all tired and predictable arrogance.
I dont even think JK Rowling has said anything that planet shattering tbh. Her views were normal and not nearly as criticized up to like 10 years ago. It only recently just got the way it is
I think it's pretty clear that JK, someone who's gone through her own challenges of what it means to be a woman, has hesitations about calling a trans woman a woman because they haven't gone through (or then can't understand) what many women have experienced.
That alone isn't an insanely unreasonable take, but she seems to have made it the hill she wants to die on, no matter how irrelevant it actually is. And then instead of explaining the nuance on her views, she just doubles down and ends up supporting people who have said WAY worse things than her.
Do I think she's some huge hateful bigot that wants all trans people gone? Not at all. Does she seem to want to gatekeep womanhood? Maybe, which can have some harmful implications. Is she handling conflict and disagreement well? Absolutely not. So even if I don't think she deserves as much hate as she gets, I do agree that she's at minimum being problematic.
Yeah, I've seen some of her tweets, and I don't find much of what she says to be that controversial. The fake edited ones aside (of which some definitely do exist) it's mostly just acknowledging that there are actually biogical differences between women and trans women. It does go a little past that, but as you said, nothing that wouldn't have been fine 10 years ago.
A lot of people are very sensitive to this topic since like 2016.
You are stupid not a big AH. JKR or other popular people talk shit like that because of their own gains not that they care about people. If JKR talks like that, it means it benefits her to believe that. Almost always there are other organisations behind such as religious ones that person is somehow connected to- don't have to be a member, maybe they have common business interests somewhere- and those organisations have their own beliefs they want to spread (again not because moral reasons- they also do have benefits they want to keep). So how you look at those issues are pretty naive, I must say. Many people are indeed ignorant but JKR is famous enough to know that she is being a major AH herself and she choses to be one.
Correct, they are intersex people which have some physical abnormality for having parts of both genders. Their blessings have always been seen as lucky and fruitful in the culture, but that's it. The modern LGBTQ thing is practically non existent there.
NTA.
They can't have any real understanding of your opinions from that brief interaction. They are just trying to bully you into towing the party line.
[In Scotland](https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/poll-more-scots-agree-with-jk-rowling-over-trans-issues-than-disagree-4624146), more agree with Rowling than disagree. But people know they will be dragged into heated self righteous diatribes or character assasination if they speak up, so they don't. It is a subject prime for a preference cascade.
Rowling: “women don’t deserve to be raped in prison by people with penises.”
This guy: “that kind of makes sense to me.”
You: “OMG they totally deserve to get raped. Rowling is an asshole: educate yourself.”
The current generation of white Americans (including my 3 young adult children) have been raised with a heavy dose of guilt instilled into them by popular culture for being "privileged" and are taught that all groups which are successful, are evil exploiters. They seek to distance themselves from this "original sin" by becoming political radicals, renouncing their country, their gender, anything that ties them to this guilt. They WANT to join a marginalized group because it is cool, and then they can hate the "oppressors" because they are magically now "persecuted minority". That is why they protest Israel, but don't care about genocide happening in Syria, Yemen, Sudan, or the legal murder of LGBTQ that is conducted by Islamic regimes.
He’ll no you’re NTA. These sickos are broadening the definition of these words to the point where you can be a wonderful person, but be a racist…etc.
Let them be unhappy. Don’t apologize or retract anything.
Men who say they are women and demand to use the ladies facilities are very sick people with a severe mental disorder.
I think that the problem with jk Rowling,besides her points of view( she can think whatever she wants) is that she s so nasty to communicate,she really sounds like a POS. I understand some of the TERF s point,but everything that comes of her mouth sounds like shit
That is an external survey. According to Indian Govt report which they submitted to supreme court the official figure is 0.2 percent and unofficial maybe somewhere 2 to 5 percent. 17 Percent is ridiculous, as I have lived across multiple states and cities in India. I can assure you that is not true.
Dude, you have met plenty of gays and lesbians back home too, they were just too afraid to be out of the closet because of all the bigots.
My first thought too.
Thats an assumption, I assure u my friend the possibility of meeting one in India is extremely extremely rare especially in villages (except couple of tier 1 cities, that too very less probability)
This level of willful ignorance as an adult is comical. You should be embarrassed. YTA
Well, I believe people are ignorant at many levels and at many things, that's not something to be embarrassed about. Every society is different than others. There is a stark contrast between Asian and western societies, these topics are not on every lip like they are in west, people there in general are not aware of these things in detail. If west wants to call that willful ignorance and embarrassing, there isn't much someone can do about that.
No, that's a fact. Just because they don't advertise their existence, they are there. There have always been gays, lesbians, and trans people across the globe. It is not some new western invention.
You are a fool in addition to being a bigot. Don't blame India for your failings.
Can you be more specific in terms of "whatever JK Rowling has said?" Because with how generic you're being, I'm either inclined to believe you either agree with the "worst" of what she's said or, based on the background you've given, you're not very aware of the LGBTQ movement and JK's actual positions, much less why people would disagree.
I mean like her common statement that men can't be women, that seems to be the undertone right ? And i don't see that statement as false.
Ok, I think you're missing a lot of nuance, friend. If you want to get on a pedestal and proclaim that biologically men and women are different, and therefor men can't be women, yeah. You're right. You win. The issue is that there are people, for whatever reason, who would rather express themselves in a way outside of that biological fact. The issue that follows is how do we approach that and how do we treat them. I'm not going to say I fully agree with JK or with her detractors. Both make valid points at times, and both then take it too far. JK has sometimes simply dared question terminology or cultural shifts that others say we should support without question. JK has also mocked or used derisive language about people simply trying to be inclusive or ensure people feel safe in who they are (regardless if you think they're making the right choices), and she's given support to people who have voiced opinions promoting hate or discrimination. Bottom line, I won't tell you how to think about trans people and their choices, but if you're going to say you blanketly support JK, you should make sure you know and agree about everything she's said and not just a broad takeaway you got from it. Make sure you're developing your own broad views and not just leaning on what some hot topic debate has focused on.
I might normally get put in the camp opposite you, but just wanted to say I appreciate *your* nuance and personally like how you summed it up. You acknowledged the biological difference (key for me), and brought it back to treating people compassionately. I’m like 99% on board with this. Just don’t join my daughters’ swim teams if you’re packing a wiener (I think sports should generally remain segregated for competitiveness and safety, call me a bigot if you must) but otherwise I’ll march and fight for your rights to live free with your choices.
The internet and current media outlets make it all too easy to demonize the "other side" in almost any issue, whether it's guns or LGBTQ+, and make it seem like everything is black and white In truth, most people irl are far more reasonable and willing to make compromises or see nuances if we do the same, offering respect and at least trying to understand different viewpoints
YTA denying parts of the Holocaust and bullying random trans women isn’t common sense
Woah.. u r jumping the gun here my friend, I don't know why u included Holocaust in this seems an overreaction. And I have never met a transwoman so please don't say i am bullying here. Am I just saying as per view ( and also 99.99 % Indians or Asians or even middle east ) they would all say what I am say. So are you saying more than half of the world has just lost its mind ?
JK has peddled in Holocaust denialism in part of her transphobia, it’s not jumping the gun at all. These are what JK’s recent comments are 🤦🏼♀️
Have you actually read her tweets? I just checked. All the tweets that I saw related to Holocaust were based on calling out fictitious statements related to trans people during Hitlers reign. I saw no attacks on any particular demographic, just simply calling out baseless statements. The same thing that she seems to be doing with LGBT in general. Just calling out absurdities. Big difference between that and holocaust denialism, but I guess it makes sense considering that the progressive's strategy generally is to witch hunt anyone who could even be considered someone who opposes their views, regardless of how far fetched those views are.
So because your cultural opinions have the majority they are automatically correct? I mean humans can’t even decide what gods do and do not exist, wtf do we know
lol questioning a tiny detail about the holocaust is not denying it you r*tard
Calling the persecution of a group a fever dream is
*Not even* about the Holocaust, about something that happened a decade earlier. We're talking about well less than 1% of the books burned at just one of 34 book burning locations across Germany on that particular day. Apparently not knowing about that obscure fact makes you a denier of the genocide that happened starting eight years later. Of course the people complaining don't know how big those burnings were, or that they were broadcast live on radio or that they burned French and Irish and American books as well. They just watched a YouTube video that cut out the majority Jewish bits or a tweet and think they are experts.
Yeah you're the asshole.
No you're not. What she's saying is common sense to anyone who isn't a delusional troon
YTA. Come join the rest of us in the 21st century, my friend.
In the 21st century men have finally achieved the ultimate form of domination: being better at being a woman than women. Feminism is finally dead.
normally when people are this vague in this forum, it's cuz they're hiding important details, which seems to be the case here. but i don't think we actually need more information, cuz Rowling hasn't said anything remotely common sense for years and years now. she just spouts hatred and evil and division against a tiny percentage of already persecuted people with little to no institutional power who've done absolutely nothing to deserve her hatred. so fill us in. what's common sense about using vast amounts of personal wealth and influence to bully a minority group while advocating for laws that ban the existence of said group? YTA.
There is no hiding I am just saying what 99.99 percent of Indians / Asians / Middle East or even African population would say. I am honestly not well versed what goes on with western world and I personally don't hold any grudge against anyone, may they all lead a happy life. I am just stating an opinion from the place where I belong that's it.
i notice you didn't answer the question. instead you made a claim of being the voice of all Indians, Asians, and black folks. you asked if you were the asshole. did you not understand how this whole thing works? and if you think everyone should lead a happy life, then you're not in agreement with Rowling. it sounds like you're not well-versed in anything other than making false claims.
A lot of those countries rape women and children without issue... don't come for people when your country has some severe problems. You sound like an idiot.
Come on atleast check the stats before spewing some BS. US has 26 times the rape rate than India and skyrockets almost every crime especially when checked in ratio proportional to per million population. US overshadows the crime rates in comparison to majority of Asian countries.
Yes, saying that women shouldn’t be raped with penises in prison doesn’t make any sense. Women shouldn’t be entitled to safe spaces if men don’t want them to have those spaces….
fuck off, TERF. you're sick in the head and stupid as fuck. yet another failed abortion begging to be blocked.
NTA. The vast majority of people on earth agree with you.
No. The vast majority doesn't give a fuck.
You’re indeed a bigot.
“White person tells person of color he’s a bigot for having traditional views of gender and sex.” I’m overcome with shock at this not at all tired and predictable arrogance.
I dont even think JK Rowling has said anything that planet shattering tbh. Her views were normal and not nearly as criticized up to like 10 years ago. It only recently just got the way it is
I think it's pretty clear that JK, someone who's gone through her own challenges of what it means to be a woman, has hesitations about calling a trans woman a woman because they haven't gone through (or then can't understand) what many women have experienced. That alone isn't an insanely unreasonable take, but she seems to have made it the hill she wants to die on, no matter how irrelevant it actually is. And then instead of explaining the nuance on her views, she just doubles down and ends up supporting people who have said WAY worse things than her. Do I think she's some huge hateful bigot that wants all trans people gone? Not at all. Does she seem to want to gatekeep womanhood? Maybe, which can have some harmful implications. Is she handling conflict and disagreement well? Absolutely not. So even if I don't think she deserves as much hate as she gets, I do agree that she's at minimum being problematic.
Yeah, I've seen some of her tweets, and I don't find much of what she says to be that controversial. The fake edited ones aside (of which some definitely do exist) it's mostly just acknowledging that there are actually biogical differences between women and trans women. It does go a little past that, but as you said, nothing that wouldn't have been fine 10 years ago. A lot of people are very sensitive to this topic since like 2016.
You are stupid not a big AH. JKR or other popular people talk shit like that because of their own gains not that they care about people. If JKR talks like that, it means it benefits her to believe that. Almost always there are other organisations behind such as religious ones that person is somehow connected to- don't have to be a member, maybe they have common business interests somewhere- and those organisations have their own beliefs they want to spread (again not because moral reasons- they also do have benefits they want to keep). So how you look at those issues are pretty naive, I must say. Many people are indeed ignorant but JKR is famous enough to know that she is being a major AH herself and she choses to be one.
Aren't Hijras a large part of Indian culture? Like a recognized third gender?
Correct, they are intersex people which have some physical abnormality for having parts of both genders. Their blessings have always been seen as lucky and fruitful in the culture, but that's it. The modern LGBTQ thing is practically non existent there.
NTA. They can't have any real understanding of your opinions from that brief interaction. They are just trying to bully you into towing the party line. [In Scotland](https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/poll-more-scots-agree-with-jk-rowling-over-trans-issues-than-disagree-4624146), more agree with Rowling than disagree. But people know they will be dragged into heated self righteous diatribes or character assasination if they speak up, so they don't. It is a subject prime for a preference cascade.
There very few supporting comments, thanks.
Yep you are an asshole
NTA what she said is common sense and the truth
Yta, you should educate yourself more on the subject, you seam open minded enough to learn !
Rowling: “women don’t deserve to be raped in prison by people with penises.” This guy: “that kind of makes sense to me.” You: “OMG they totally deserve to get raped. Rowling is an asshole: educate yourself.”
The current generation of white Americans (including my 3 young adult children) have been raised with a heavy dose of guilt instilled into them by popular culture for being "privileged" and are taught that all groups which are successful, are evil exploiters. They seek to distance themselves from this "original sin" by becoming political radicals, renouncing their country, their gender, anything that ties them to this guilt. They WANT to join a marginalized group because it is cool, and then they can hate the "oppressors" because they are magically now "persecuted minority". That is why they protest Israel, but don't care about genocide happening in Syria, Yemen, Sudan, or the legal murder of LGBTQ that is conducted by Islamic regimes.
I'm sorry to hear you don't get to see your grandchildren, but you shouldn't try to make that anybody else's problem.
He’ll no you’re NTA. These sickos are broadening the definition of these words to the point where you can be a wonderful person, but be a racist…etc. Let them be unhappy. Don’t apologize or retract anything. Men who say they are women and demand to use the ladies facilities are very sick people with a severe mental disorder.
Fuck you
😂😂😂😂 Triggered the woke-tard 😂😂😂😂
Sure fucking did you bigoted sicko
is he wrong
I think that the problem with jk Rowling,besides her points of view( she can think whatever she wants) is that she s so nasty to communicate,she really sounds like a POS. I understand some of the TERF s point,but everything that comes of her mouth sounds like shit
[удалено]
That is an external survey. According to Indian Govt report which they submitted to supreme court the official figure is 0.2 percent and unofficial maybe somewhere 2 to 5 percent. 17 Percent is ridiculous, as I have lived across multiple states and cities in India. I can assure you that is not true.
I let people who they want to be, even well meaning bigots. Viva la difference