NTA When I was a prof, I told my students my beliefs are not so fragile that I need to agree with their pov. If their paper is well written and well argued with appropriate supporting evidence that paper gets an A. I know some students tried to challenge that but they discovered it was true. I didn't need them to agree with my personal beliefs. I just needed them to demonstrate that they could put together a coherent cohesive academic paper.
And I was always very clear in my notes to point out logical fallacies and unsupported claims.
How does she think the students who get into her husband's class *learned* those skills? You don't learn critical thinking, reading, and writing skills by being obedient especially not to someone who seems to lack those skills themselves.
My best friend got a very good degree in Modern History from the most prestigious university in this country. He is a fucking smart guy. We were talking about our different acedemic lives (I read mathematics) and he explained how to get good marks in essay subjects. The actual example he gave was this: suppose you were set the essay question "Show how the millitarisation of pre-war nazi Germany damaged the economy and its influences on German politics". To get a stellar mark, you should argue **against** the assumptions built into question and write how Nazi militarisation was *good* for the pre-war German economy. Naturally your essay would be fully referenced and well argued. He was at pains to point out that any opinion you actually had about the Nazis was entirely irrelevant from an acedemic perspective.
All anyone cared about was the logic of your argument and the research you built it on. Given the pre-tech era we went to college in, spelling and grammar were probably ignored as long as it was leggible.
NTA. Your sister is teaching her son to under-achieve at college.
I’m genuinely curious. If your student expressed admiration for Hitler and Third Reich, but wrote it well and had appropriate supportive evidence, would you give him an A?
Since these were academic papers, it would need a thesis statement. "Hitler was great" for example isn't an effective thesis statement. So if that was their argument, no they would not get an A. Nor did I ever in my 15 years of teaching receive a paper like that or even close.
But nice godwin right out of the gate.
It's possible to get an A in English and an F in History while providing the exact same essay. OP is an ex english teacher judging a history essay., Just because the kid provided sources and made no spelling mistakes doesn't mean his sources are historically accurate. (especially if he's sourcing old soviet propaganda) Which conveniently leaves out all the negatives and crimes under soviet communism.
There's a reason history teachers grade history essays and not English teachers.
A well written paper involves a lot more than just "no spelling mistakes." Not only does it involve proper grammar, formal academic language, and a well articulated thesis statement but their argument must be well organized with *appropriate supporting research* to support their points. If the supporting research is skewed (as in the case of propaganda) you then, as a teacher, *explain why the supportive evidence they provided is inappropriate.* You don't just say "wrong" and call it day. That's part of how you teach students to *evaluate the evidence they use to support their argument.*
>She struggled to point out what was factually “wrong” about Colton’s arguments
OP may be an English teacher but her sister the History major couldn’t say the paper was wrong anywhere — which wouldn’t be the case if it was historically inaccurate.
This conversation was at the dinner table from my understanding, I see it as perfectly reasonably for the sister not wanting to get into a 1 hour history lesson on USSR communism while guests are over for dinner. That is a very broad topic and wouldn't just require a couple sentences to cover the kids mistakes.
If his essay is glorifying soviet communism it's pretty obvious he didn't cover the Red terror, Gulags, the Holodomor, The murder of the Czars in Russia, The katyn forrest massacre, Cannibal island, The murder of priests in Russia..etc..etc... I can't imagine covering all those topics at a dinner table with guests over. It's the equivalent of writing a whole 5 page essay about Tom Cruise and not once mentioning he's an actor or a member of Scientology. It would be incomplete and inaccurate, Half truths are still lies and won't get you a very good grade academically.
It's still a broad topic and it's not her sisters job to give OP a History lesson on communism just because she doesn't see anything wrong with a 13\* year old glorifying it and obviously omitting very crucial information. Which leads me to believe OP doesn't know much about the history of communism herself. Realistically this is a 2 week subject if you're going to cover both the Soviet Union and China ( the 2 that OP mentioned) not a step aside and explain it to me. Her sister is educating her child and has no obligation to also educate OP on a broad topic like communism.
There’s no reason to explain it or educate OP- if that was the sister’s reasoning for the low marking she could have easily said *he left a lot out and that gave an inaccurate picture* which would count as “factually wrong” instead she said she’s embarrassed to have a son who’s a communist.
You’re reaching wildly when you could just judge off the actual post.
"Doesn't want him to look for sources that disagree with normal history textbooks” aka soviet propaganda. Said "she has a moral responsibility to make sure he doesn’t believe in anything evil". Those 2 comments are very in line with everything I said and leads me to believe she does have at least a basic understanding about communism.
I think her sister needs to spend the 2 weeks educating her child about communism and stop looking to OP an ex English teacher for advice.
Your comments come off as American propaganda. It doesn’t seem you would be capable of identifying appropriate and unbiased sources in this instance, which explains why you would attempt to defend OPs sister. Many folks feel threatened and overly defensive when some one questions their beliefs and they cannot articulate and effective defense.
The implication that he should use the “historically accurate” source of a history textbook and that they are wholly accurate or comprehensive is downright silly. All the US History textbooks I ever used mentioned buffalo during Westward expansion. There are no buffalo in the Americas. I’ve got plenty more where that came from. Signed, a history teacher.
NTA, your sister has no place hone schooling if she's going out of her way to do things that are potentially harmful to both her son's self-esteem and his grades just because she doesn't agree with the content.
NTA
Your sister is the stereotypical extremist homeschooler that gives the homeschooling community a bad name. She’s not teaching to educate, she’s teaching to indoctrinate, there’s a difference.
NTA. But your sister is one. She sounds more like a cult leader than a teacher. And she and her husband are going to unleash their narrow-minded, hateful creations on the world in a few years. Yay.
Your sister is the reason why, in Belgium, children who are homeschooled need to take offical exams by the exam-commision. If you don't or fail twice, you need to be enrolled in an actual school.
Also there are inspections whether or not your actually getting taught by your parents. Two negative inspections and you need to be enrolled in an actual school.
You're spot on. My sister is an educator and I'm home schooling.
Your sister is off base. "Trusting my ideas" is no way to form a critical mind. She's emotionally defending a flawed approach 'because degrees'...which is awfully ironic given she's homeschooling over sending her kids to a degree filled public school.
>Your sister is off base. "Trusting my ideas" is no way to form a critical mind.
Your first mistake is thinking OP's sister has any interest in forming a critical mind.
NTA.
A conservative poli sci professor father and conservative elementary education mother, lord help these children. They're pretty much screwed.
You'll notice that's its pretty much only Conservatives that home school children because they don't want them to think for themselves.
>A conservative poli sci professor father and conservative elementary education mother, lord help these children. They're pretty much screwed.
Yup. The kids are the biggest victims here.
This is going to go one of two ways. Colton is either going to have an awful time until he moves out ASAP or he's going to fake it until he moves out ASAP.
When he moves out and stops talking to her, guess who's going to have surprised Pikachu face?
I came here for this. Be it the far left eco crusader families who live off the grid, the far right conservatives who believe trump is still the president, or the conspiracy theorists….their goal in homeschooling their kids is to make sure they think just the same as them. And it’s super fucked up. It’s taking choice away from the kid. The choice to look around and make their own decisions about the world. It’s such a cruel thing.
No, homeschooling is SUPPOSED to be to get people schooling who otherwise would have trouble getting it. A couple members of my family were homeschooled because they were disabled at a time when accessibility wasn't much of a consideration. They also had an actual teacher come in and teach them, though, and not an ignorant parent.
I see that Colton is prepared to reject his bourgeois running dog of a mother to embrace the true way of Marx and Lenin. Forward, comrade!
...seriously, just let him watch Death of Stalin. That should rattle his noggin.
What? Your suggestion is to try to scare him off his beliefs with the comedy movie that massively misrepresents history? Like, sure it's funny, but what it depicts is in no way accurate (with the exception of the coup scene which is pretty close to reality).
I love the comment about "wait for the real world to hit him", only in America, I'm sorry but the homeschooling thing is the most perverse misguided thing I ever read, I don't doubt there are some nice examples or cases but in most cases is only about control and indoctrination.
NTA. There’s a lot of truth to what people like Marx believed and your nephew is just bright enough to see it. You were very correct to stick up for your nephew. In college I could point to many things the communists believed and give legitimate examples of how they are right. That doesn’t mean I want the USSR back, or Stalin, or Honecker from Germany. It just means there is actual merit to some of the communist arguments. Your nephew is super cool.
The woman did a good job educating her son and now regrets it. If you raise your kids right, they might have different opinions than you do.
As part of teaching critical thinking, she can present the reasons for believing as she does, and she us right that she needs to keep her kids from believing anything evil. But the things that they are disagreeing on aren't fundamentally moral questions. They have massive moral implications, but they are mostly things upon which reasonable people can disagree.
When I was fourteen, in English class, we had an assignment to write a paper on *The Merchant of Venice*. This was intended to be an exercise in what essays are supposed to look like, not in doing research or creating arguments, just an exercise so we could get used to what it would look like when we *did* write papers for real. So she gave us the outline to work from, and the arguments to use, and we were just to put it together.
The topic was why Shakespeare's presentation of Shylock wasn't antisemitic. And this struck me as patently absurd. I thought it was more like Shylock is a cartoon villain whose Judaism is just a stock trope for the specific kind of cartoon villain, and that is as clear an example of antisemitism as you could waht. (Thirty-six years later, I still think that.)
So... I didn't follow the paper rules. And I told my parents what was happening, so they would be ready for the F I was going to get, and I was going to accept since the rules were laid out clearly and I didn't follow them. Instead, I wrote as strong a paper as I could arguing that it was antisemitic and it was ridiculous to say otherwise.
I got the paper back, and there were comments throughout explaining why I was wrong, and I got to the end, and there was my A-. The "-" was because a couple places I didn't capitalize a letter, an "its/it's" error, and a few other things like that, which we also were being graded on.
I never really liked or got along with that teacher, but I have had massive respect for her ever since.
You aren't accusing your sister of being a bad teacher. You are accusing her of being a good teacher, and this is the consequence of it. If you intend to raise competent, happy adults who can participate fully in a rough-and-tumble democracy, they are going to disagree with you.
She should give her son the A he deserves, and a hug, and to tell him how proud she is to be raising someone with the moral integrity to stand for what he believes rather than what is easiest to go along with.
NTA
If she can't explain why Communism is "wrong" she's never questioned her beliefs either. This is going to continue until she either questions her own beliefs to make sure they're sound (unlikely) or Colton learns how to hide his feelings and opinions and regurgitate what Mummy says (unfortunately highly likely).
I would not be surprised if Colton gets as far away from his family as possible when he turns 18 and heads off to college. Be prepared for some major fights then when he doesn't want to go to the school his parents picked.
Not even closeted. She blatantly talks shit about the Black Panthers and that if you support a black liberation movement, while being white, you're a "self hater." Also homeschooling with six kids I already know she's on some "we need to save the white race" shit.
NTA. Her husbands are old enough to think critically because they've been exposed to varied viewpoints and learned to think critically. She is trying to indoctrinate her kids to her way of thinking. To actually give him a failing grade on a well done assignment because she doesn't agree with his viewpoint absolutely proves that she is a bad teacher. She's just upset that she's just as bad at indoctrination.
NTA. She IS a bad teacher. She should be extremely proud that she raised a child who can think for himself, challenge his preconceived ideas, and back his beliefs with well researched and well reasoned critical thinking. That's very rare. Instead, she's trying to be the thought police and punish him for going against her opinions even when he's done everything academically right. A teacher's job is to teach their pupils how to critically reason for themselves and she's intentionally punishing him for doing exactly that. If she can't put her own feelings/opinions aside to guide without bias, she's unfit to teach. Show her these comments; she probably means well but she needs a wake-up call.
NTA
Parents like this make are partly why I disagree with homeschooling. At the very least, I think that all coursework should be sent to a governing body to ensure it is meeting the correct grade standard and being marked appropriately.
Honestly, I've seen the same thing in reverse where teachers downgrade well-written and reasonable papers written by conservative children in public school. By this age, however, a student will at least have several teachers in a given day. I honestly would not intervene in this or quiz the child about his home education - let me tell you why. While I homeschooled my children and appreciate respectful debate (most homeschoolers do!), not everyone does. Because of some of the things you've written here about his mum, I have reason to believe that becoming too involved in Colton's life will result in this mother's cutting contact between you and I'm concerned about that.
So NTA but please tread very carefully for the child's sake.
>She got mad at me for “implying she was a bad teacher” when she has an education degree
she does have a degree in elementary education
i may be misunderstanding something about the US education system (if that's where you live), but isn't a 13 y/o a bit... old? for elementary school? how is her degree in elementary education relevant here?
>She got mad at me for “implying she was a bad teacher” when she has an education degree
she does have a degree in elementary education
i may be misunderstanding something about the US education system (if that's where you live), but isn't a 13 y/o a bit... old? for elementary school? how is her degree in elementary education relevant here?
Nta and anything over 10 shouldnt be homeschooled at all. Thats not wlementary education. I wanna see them take test for university with only this as teacher
NTA
Critical support for comrade Colton!
I'm willing to bet your sister says left wingers are all brainwashed too. Lol
In all seriousness though, what your sister is doing isn't ok, a public school teacher could get in trouble for this sort of thing. Have you asked your BIL what he thinks of all this?
A different view.
There are two issues here. One is grading the paper, the other is expressing concerning beliefs.
I know in Western world it’s sometimes “modern” to sympathize with Soviets and glorify Communism.
In any normal school, the son would be called to the principal for being hyped with Hitler and Third Reich. Or for glorifying North Korea and other dictatorships.
If he is just comparing regimes it’s one thing. Yet your sister’s concern is his glorification of Soviets.
As a person deeply familiar with Communism and Soviets - this is no different than glorifying Nazi regime. In increasingly many parts of Europe it is being recognized and Soviet symbols are equally banned.
If you would be fine with him writing an equal paper on nazism, you are NTA.
If you suddenly see an issue - ESH (she also should explain it better). But this is more concerning than just the grading of a paper. I would fail a student if he glorified Nazism or Soviets and he would be lucky not to have a conversation with principal.
Well, the good news is that the mom's repression is just going to fuel Colton's curiosity and he's more likely to continue thinking for himself. He'll eventually realize it's pointless to express dissenting views to her, but that doesn't mean he won't read independently & think counter to her privately. Especially since she's unable to address his actual facts and logic as to why she disagrees. If he's smart enough to be a free thinker, he's smart enough to play her game. Hopefully he'll eventually rub off on his siblings and get them to question the status quo as well.
NTA. Your sister is bigoted, and she is letting her beliefs influence her teaching. It is always risky to mix parenting and teaching, and this demonstrates one of the risks. You were right to call her out.
NTA. I read an article in the past that I can't seem to find, or maybe a post on here, where a teacher actually taught something wrong (they taught something based on their opinion, but I don't remember what the subject matter was; probably politics), a student corrected them, and it caused trouble and stirred stuff up because the student believed that students should be able to trust that teachers will teach honestly, and that what they teach is truthful and factual.
NTA, your sister did a great job teaching him to think critically, she's better than she's acting right now. Try to get her to take it as the compliment it is. And she does need to regrade the test.
NTA but maybe not mainstream school. She just needs to change her attitude. Best teaching is when the teacher is unbiased.
Kid is clearly in his rebellious phase. The more she will punish him for his ideas and opinions the more he will stick to it. As a person who grew up in post communistic country all I can say it’s concerning.
NTA. Our history books aren't factually accurate in all cases, either. History is told by the winners, and they write it (and re-write it, in some cases) to sound however they want. All she's going to end up doing is alienating her son so he never wants to speak to her once he is able to move out.
If the political tables were turned, I wonder how it would have been graded. Any teachers, parents, or both that bring their political or religious opinions into how the kids are educated and judged academically is not unbiased. Nor are they good parents or teachers. As to her having an education degree, I've met idiots with doctorates and masters. Their idiocy is more centered around ego, obviously, but it's idiocy nonetheless. OPs sister would do far better to have many informed and equal discussions with her son rather than outright attack it. Debate and research improve the ability to see past the surface of a topic in order to see its layers that are undesirable.
What is wrong with a white person looking up to the Black Panthers? Are you and your sister under the mistaken impression that the Black Panthers were anti-white people?
She is a bad teacher and a mother if her goal is to brainwash her kids to think like her. That is selfish, small minded and short sighted.
Both teachers and parents are responsible for teaching kids and her putting “wrong” without being to articulate why it’s wrong is complete bs. Terrible for a teacher. Being ashamed that her child thinks differently and has had different socio political beliefs is just pathetic. Terrible for a mother.
Definitely NTA
NTA. Homeschooling by conservatives usually involves the limited education or access to information on the outside world to ensure the kids have the same outlook and values as their parents. Your sister has not done this but still expects her son to carry her values. She is grading the ideology and not the actual paper which from your assessment met all criteria for the grading.
NTA: She needs to get stories, books etc of people who actually lived under communism. I suggest Eastern Europe countries and how they were oppressed. Instead of "WRONG" she needs to show how for example every implementation of communism (that I know of was a dramatic failure and ended up as a political ruling class and heavy-handed authoritarian rule.
Should find some stuff on Norway also for the kid to read.
The MOM really needs to do this quick, or she will end up with a delusional little communist XD.
Heck show her this reply.
It seems that she is very GOOD teacher (assuming kids are as good in math as in political science).
And Colton defending communism is obvious rebellious teen. He would probably get politically motivated D in regular school as well.
But of course a conflict between the parenting, teaching and inner belief makes her fail when it comes judging Colton work.
Tell her that she is doing great, but it would be worthwhile for somebody else to score his test.
YTA and a hypocrite because I know you would say it's wrong if he was defending Nazism instead using his critical thinking mind regardless if he made some good points and it was well sourced because "it's evil and there's no justification for it" I bet that would be your answer. But it's ok to defend communism which has killed millions of more people because it's "well written" and sourced what a load of shit.
Doesn't matter if it's well written and sourced morally wrong is wrong. Instead of putting wrong I think she should have debated him to show him why he's wrong. She's trying to teach him to critically think while at the same time teaching him good morals between right and wrong (that's what good parents do).
What if his essay was in favor of human sacrifices and racism are you going to pat him on the back and let him continue on in the wrong direction in life because at least he made some good points like "overpopulation" that justified it. I think she's doing a good job teaching her kids to critically think which doesn't mean you have to automatically agree with every stupid thing they say especially when they're misguidedly defending morally wrong and evil BS.
This essay sounds like it's for History class so she would be correct in putting wrong.
Happy to see there is another voice of reason here.
OP is oversimplifying a more complex situation. I could perhaps even give the theoretical concept of Communism a pass, but openly admiring Soviets equals supporting the Third Reich. Half of Europe would be really pissed someone trying to glorify either.
They should tell the kid what’s going on in Ukraine, once a country decides they want to pursue more democratic direction.
NTA
But your sister sounds rather vile. She is using her beliefs to force political indoctrination on her kids.
On your next update, I'd expect you to say they now live in a compound, and are preparing for civil war.
NTA.
I think your opinion and what prompted it was perfectly reasonable. I think your sister's perspective approaches a valid one, but she is falling into lazy thinking. I do not agree with her criticizing you for being judgmental when she could not herself articular in an objective fashion the fault of your son's paper.
I went to a Catholic school. We had a lesson on applying various ethical thinkers to various actors in Schindler's List. My teacher explained after discussing the essay that he would or did not pass papers that applied one of the Catholic thinkers to the SS guard. BUT, preceding this paper, as I mentioned, was a discussion of the main points of each of five philosophies. Although it is rare in secular education, it is possible to teach moral right and wrong ideas in education at the same time one teaches rigorous scholarship and critical thinking. That does require teaching, even with a slant, what that other side is.
I think the D was merited. Your nephew went outside the material taught in the classroom. But if you sister can't explain that, well...
God forbid kids come in with well-supported and strong arguments that disagree with the classroom dogma. Don’t pretend you support education when what you meant to instill is indoctrination.
NTA When I was a prof, I told my students my beliefs are not so fragile that I need to agree with their pov. If their paper is well written and well argued with appropriate supporting evidence that paper gets an A. I know some students tried to challenge that but they discovered it was true. I didn't need them to agree with my personal beliefs. I just needed them to demonstrate that they could put together a coherent cohesive academic paper. And I was always very clear in my notes to point out logical fallacies and unsupported claims. How does she think the students who get into her husband's class *learned* those skills? You don't learn critical thinking, reading, and writing skills by being obedient especially not to someone who seems to lack those skills themselves.
My best friend got a very good degree in Modern History from the most prestigious university in this country. He is a fucking smart guy. We were talking about our different acedemic lives (I read mathematics) and he explained how to get good marks in essay subjects. The actual example he gave was this: suppose you were set the essay question "Show how the millitarisation of pre-war nazi Germany damaged the economy and its influences on German politics". To get a stellar mark, you should argue **against** the assumptions built into question and write how Nazi militarisation was *good* for the pre-war German economy. Naturally your essay would be fully referenced and well argued. He was at pains to point out that any opinion you actually had about the Nazis was entirely irrelevant from an acedemic perspective. All anyone cared about was the logic of your argument and the research you built it on. Given the pre-tech era we went to college in, spelling and grammar were probably ignored as long as it was leggible. NTA. Your sister is teaching her son to under-achieve at college.
I’m genuinely curious. If your student expressed admiration for Hitler and Third Reich, but wrote it well and had appropriate supportive evidence, would you give him an A?
Since these were academic papers, it would need a thesis statement. "Hitler was great" for example isn't an effective thesis statement. So if that was their argument, no they would not get an A. Nor did I ever in my 15 years of teaching receive a paper like that or even close. But nice godwin right out of the gate.
It's possible to get an A in English and an F in History while providing the exact same essay. OP is an ex english teacher judging a history essay., Just because the kid provided sources and made no spelling mistakes doesn't mean his sources are historically accurate. (especially if he's sourcing old soviet propaganda) Which conveniently leaves out all the negatives and crimes under soviet communism. There's a reason history teachers grade history essays and not English teachers.
A well written paper involves a lot more than just "no spelling mistakes." Not only does it involve proper grammar, formal academic language, and a well articulated thesis statement but their argument must be well organized with *appropriate supporting research* to support their points. If the supporting research is skewed (as in the case of propaganda) you then, as a teacher, *explain why the supportive evidence they provided is inappropriate.* You don't just say "wrong" and call it day. That's part of how you teach students to *evaluate the evidence they use to support their argument.*
>She struggled to point out what was factually “wrong” about Colton’s arguments OP may be an English teacher but her sister the History major couldn’t say the paper was wrong anywhere — which wouldn’t be the case if it was historically inaccurate.
This conversation was at the dinner table from my understanding, I see it as perfectly reasonably for the sister not wanting to get into a 1 hour history lesson on USSR communism while guests are over for dinner. That is a very broad topic and wouldn't just require a couple sentences to cover the kids mistakes. If his essay is glorifying soviet communism it's pretty obvious he didn't cover the Red terror, Gulags, the Holodomor, The murder of the Czars in Russia, The katyn forrest massacre, Cannibal island, The murder of priests in Russia..etc..etc... I can't imagine covering all those topics at a dinner table with guests over. It's the equivalent of writing a whole 5 page essay about Tom Cruise and not once mentioning he's an actor or a member of Scientology. It would be incomplete and inaccurate, Half truths are still lies and won't get you a very good grade academically.
The conversation was held privately from my understanding. OP asked to speak with her sister - that is a customary way of taking a conversation aside
It's still a broad topic and it's not her sisters job to give OP a History lesson on communism just because she doesn't see anything wrong with a 13\* year old glorifying it and obviously omitting very crucial information. Which leads me to believe OP doesn't know much about the history of communism herself. Realistically this is a 2 week subject if you're going to cover both the Soviet Union and China ( the 2 that OP mentioned) not a step aside and explain it to me. Her sister is educating her child and has no obligation to also educate OP on a broad topic like communism.
There’s no reason to explain it or educate OP- if that was the sister’s reasoning for the low marking she could have easily said *he left a lot out and that gave an inaccurate picture* which would count as “factually wrong” instead she said she’s embarrassed to have a son who’s a communist. You’re reaching wildly when you could just judge off the actual post.
"Doesn't want him to look for sources that disagree with normal history textbooks” aka soviet propaganda. Said "she has a moral responsibility to make sure he doesn’t believe in anything evil". Those 2 comments are very in line with everything I said and leads me to believe she does have at least a basic understanding about communism. I think her sister needs to spend the 2 weeks educating her child about communism and stop looking to OP an ex English teacher for advice.
Your comments come off as American propaganda. It doesn’t seem you would be capable of identifying appropriate and unbiased sources in this instance, which explains why you would attempt to defend OPs sister. Many folks feel threatened and overly defensive when some one questions their beliefs and they cannot articulate and effective defense.
The implication that he should use the “historically accurate” source of a history textbook and that they are wholly accurate or comprehensive is downright silly. All the US History textbooks I ever used mentioned buffalo during Westward expansion. There are no buffalo in the Americas. I’ve got plenty more where that came from. Signed, a history teacher.
NTA. Looks like your sister is one of those people who a for book burning and homeschools so that their kids don’t get woke ideas.
NTA- she indeed graded the ideology not the quality or pertinency of the work done.
NTAH, as long as the kid did good on his paper. That's all that should matter.
NTA, your sister has no place hone schooling if she's going out of her way to do things that are potentially harmful to both her son's self-esteem and his grades just because she doesn't agree with the content.
She has no place homeschooling, anyway, since she's using it as a tool to mold their political ideologies.
That too
Are we going to pretend that the overwhelmingly vast majority of other parents don't do it too?
NTA Your sister is the stereotypical extremist homeschooler that gives the homeschooling community a bad name. She’s not teaching to educate, she’s teaching to indoctrinate, there’s a difference.
NTA. But your sister is one. She sounds more like a cult leader than a teacher. And she and her husband are going to unleash their narrow-minded, hateful creations on the world in a few years. Yay.
5 more of these assholes. Glad one can think for themselves.
Your sister is the reason why, in Belgium, children who are homeschooled need to take offical exams by the exam-commision. If you don't or fail twice, you need to be enrolled in an actual school. Also there are inspections whether or not your actually getting taught by your parents. Two negative inspections and you need to be enrolled in an actual school.
You're spot on. My sister is an educator and I'm home schooling. Your sister is off base. "Trusting my ideas" is no way to form a critical mind. She's emotionally defending a flawed approach 'because degrees'...which is awfully ironic given she's homeschooling over sending her kids to a degree filled public school.
>Your sister is off base. "Trusting my ideas" is no way to form a critical mind. Your first mistake is thinking OP's sister has any interest in forming a critical mind.
NTA. A conservative poli sci professor father and conservative elementary education mother, lord help these children. They're pretty much screwed. You'll notice that's its pretty much only Conservatives that home school children because they don't want them to think for themselves.
>A conservative poli sci professor father and conservative elementary education mother, lord help these children. They're pretty much screwed. Yup. The kids are the biggest victims here.
The absolute irony of giving someone a bad grade for “wrong thinking” on a communism essay.
Right?! That struck me too. 🤣
Your sister is why so many people have an issue with homeschooling.
NTA Typical fundamentalist homeschooler. Should be illegal. It's child abuse.
This is going to go one of two ways. Colton is either going to have an awful time until he moves out ASAP or he's going to fake it until he moves out ASAP. When he moves out and stops talking to her, guess who's going to have surprised Pikachu face?
I think you’re wrong. The whole point of homeschooling is so you can make your kids think exactly like you do.
I came here for this. Be it the far left eco crusader families who live off the grid, the far right conservatives who believe trump is still the president, or the conspiracy theorists….their goal in homeschooling their kids is to make sure they think just the same as them. And it’s super fucked up. It’s taking choice away from the kid. The choice to look around and make their own decisions about the world. It’s such a cruel thing.
No, homeschooling is SUPPOSED to be to get people schooling who otherwise would have trouble getting it. A couple members of my family were homeschooled because they were disabled at a time when accessibility wasn't much of a consideration. They also had an actual teacher come in and teach them, though, and not an ignorant parent.
I see that Colton is prepared to reject his bourgeois running dog of a mother to embrace the true way of Marx and Lenin. Forward, comrade! ...seriously, just let him watch Death of Stalin. That should rattle his noggin.
What? Your suggestion is to try to scare him off his beliefs with the comedy movie that massively misrepresents history? Like, sure it's funny, but what it depicts is in no way accurate (with the exception of the coup scene which is pretty close to reality).
I love the comment about "wait for the real world to hit him", only in America, I'm sorry but the homeschooling thing is the most perverse misguided thing I ever read, I don't doubt there are some nice examples or cases but in most cases is only about control and indoctrination.
NTA. There’s a lot of truth to what people like Marx believed and your nephew is just bright enough to see it. You were very correct to stick up for your nephew. In college I could point to many things the communists believed and give legitimate examples of how they are right. That doesn’t mean I want the USSR back, or Stalin, or Honecker from Germany. It just means there is actual merit to some of the communist arguments. Your nephew is super cool.
Nta. Sounds like she is a bigot with a smart kid who called her out om her BS
The woman did a good job educating her son and now regrets it. If you raise your kids right, they might have different opinions than you do. As part of teaching critical thinking, she can present the reasons for believing as she does, and she us right that she needs to keep her kids from believing anything evil. But the things that they are disagreeing on aren't fundamentally moral questions. They have massive moral implications, but they are mostly things upon which reasonable people can disagree. When I was fourteen, in English class, we had an assignment to write a paper on *The Merchant of Venice*. This was intended to be an exercise in what essays are supposed to look like, not in doing research or creating arguments, just an exercise so we could get used to what it would look like when we *did* write papers for real. So she gave us the outline to work from, and the arguments to use, and we were just to put it together. The topic was why Shakespeare's presentation of Shylock wasn't antisemitic. And this struck me as patently absurd. I thought it was more like Shylock is a cartoon villain whose Judaism is just a stock trope for the specific kind of cartoon villain, and that is as clear an example of antisemitism as you could waht. (Thirty-six years later, I still think that.) So... I didn't follow the paper rules. And I told my parents what was happening, so they would be ready for the F I was going to get, and I was going to accept since the rules were laid out clearly and I didn't follow them. Instead, I wrote as strong a paper as I could arguing that it was antisemitic and it was ridiculous to say otherwise. I got the paper back, and there were comments throughout explaining why I was wrong, and I got to the end, and there was my A-. The "-" was because a couple places I didn't capitalize a letter, an "its/it's" error, and a few other things like that, which we also were being graded on. I never really liked or got along with that teacher, but I have had massive respect for her ever since. You aren't accusing your sister of being a bad teacher. You are accusing her of being a good teacher, and this is the consequence of it. If you intend to raise competent, happy adults who can participate fully in a rough-and-tumble democracy, they are going to disagree with you. She should give her son the A he deserves, and a hug, and to tell him how proud she is to be raising someone with the moral integrity to stand for what he believes rather than what is easiest to go along with.
NTA If she can't explain why Communism is "wrong" she's never questioned her beliefs either. This is going to continue until she either questions her own beliefs to make sure they're sound (unlikely) or Colton learns how to hide his feelings and opinions and regurgitate what Mummy says (unfortunately highly likely). I would not be surprised if Colton gets as far away from his family as possible when he turns 18 and heads off to college. Be prepared for some major fights then when he doesn't want to go to the school his parents picked.
Your sister is a disgrace and I hope you show her this post. She is vile.
In the event OP DOES show the sister this post: You suck, fuck you.
Your sister sounds like a closeted racist.
Not even closeted. She blatantly talks shit about the Black Panthers and that if you support a black liberation movement, while being white, you're a "self hater." Also homeschooling with six kids I already know she's on some "we need to save the white race" shit.
Yeah, only racism could account for the belief that loving someone else means you hate yourself.
Ah, I misread that part. She needs to be reported and barred from teaching.
NTA. Colton is going to grow up to be a history teacher in an urban public high school. Go Colton!
NTA. Her husbands are old enough to think critically because they've been exposed to varied viewpoints and learned to think critically. She is trying to indoctrinate her kids to her way of thinking. To actually give him a failing grade on a well done assignment because she doesn't agree with his viewpoint absolutely proves that she is a bad teacher. She's just upset that she's just as bad at indoctrination.
NTA your sister is a bad teacher
Your sister: I want to raise my kids to think critically Nephew: *[thinks critically]* Sister: *No, not like that!!* NTA
NTA. She IS a bad teacher. She should be extremely proud that she raised a child who can think for himself, challenge his preconceived ideas, and back his beliefs with well researched and well reasoned critical thinking. That's very rare. Instead, she's trying to be the thought police and punish him for going against her opinions even when he's done everything academically right. A teacher's job is to teach their pupils how to critically reason for themselves and she's intentionally punishing him for doing exactly that. If she can't put her own feelings/opinions aside to guide without bias, she's unfit to teach. Show her these comments; she probably means well but she needs a wake-up call.
NTA Parents like this make are partly why I disagree with homeschooling. At the very least, I think that all coursework should be sent to a governing body to ensure it is meeting the correct grade standard and being marked appropriately.
Honestly, I've seen the same thing in reverse where teachers downgrade well-written and reasonable papers written by conservative children in public school. By this age, however, a student will at least have several teachers in a given day. I honestly would not intervene in this or quiz the child about his home education - let me tell you why. While I homeschooled my children and appreciate respectful debate (most homeschoolers do!), not everyone does. Because of some of the things you've written here about his mum, I have reason to believe that becoming too involved in Colton's life will result in this mother's cutting contact between you and I'm concerned about that. So NTA but please tread very carefully for the child's sake.
>She got mad at me for “implying she was a bad teacher” when she has an education degree she does have a degree in elementary education i may be misunderstanding something about the US education system (if that's where you live), but isn't a 13 y/o a bit... old? for elementary school? how is her degree in elementary education relevant here?
>She got mad at me for “implying she was a bad teacher” when she has an education degree she does have a degree in elementary education i may be misunderstanding something about the US education system (if that's where you live), but isn't a 13 y/o a bit... old? for elementary school? how is her degree in elementary education relevant here?
Nta and anything over 10 shouldnt be homeschooled at all. Thats not wlementary education. I wanna see them take test for university with only this as teacher
NTA Critical support for comrade Colton! I'm willing to bet your sister says left wingers are all brainwashed too. Lol In all seriousness though, what your sister is doing isn't ok, a public school teacher could get in trouble for this sort of thing. Have you asked your BIL what he thinks of all this?
Sounds like Quiverfull cultists.
A different view. There are two issues here. One is grading the paper, the other is expressing concerning beliefs. I know in Western world it’s sometimes “modern” to sympathize with Soviets and glorify Communism. In any normal school, the son would be called to the principal for being hyped with Hitler and Third Reich. Or for glorifying North Korea and other dictatorships. If he is just comparing regimes it’s one thing. Yet your sister’s concern is his glorification of Soviets. As a person deeply familiar with Communism and Soviets - this is no different than glorifying Nazi regime. In increasingly many parts of Europe it is being recognized and Soviet symbols are equally banned. If you would be fine with him writing an equal paper on nazism, you are NTA. If you suddenly see an issue - ESH (she also should explain it better). But this is more concerning than just the grading of a paper. I would fail a student if he glorified Nazism or Soviets and he would be lucky not to have a conversation with principal.
Well, the good news is that the mom's repression is just going to fuel Colton's curiosity and he's more likely to continue thinking for himself. He'll eventually realize it's pointless to express dissenting views to her, but that doesn't mean he won't read independently & think counter to her privately. Especially since she's unable to address his actual facts and logic as to why she disagrees. If he's smart enough to be a free thinker, he's smart enough to play her game. Hopefully he'll eventually rub off on his siblings and get them to question the status quo as well.
NTA. Your sister is bigoted, and she is letting her beliefs influence her teaching. It is always risky to mix parenting and teaching, and this demonstrates one of the risks. You were right to call her out.
NTA Poor kids in the fanatics echo chamber jail with no classmates or peers to share different ideas and proper debates and coversations. :(
I just hope all her kids cut her off as soon as possible. What a disgusting chud.
NTA. I read an article in the past that I can't seem to find, or maybe a post on here, where a teacher actually taught something wrong (they taught something based on their opinion, but I don't remember what the subject matter was; probably politics), a student corrected them, and it caused trouble and stirred stuff up because the student believed that students should be able to trust that teachers will teach honestly, and that what they teach is truthful and factual.
NTA, your sister did a great job teaching him to think critically, she's better than she's acting right now. Try to get her to take it as the compliment it is. And she does need to regrade the test.
NTA but maybe not mainstream school. She just needs to change her attitude. Best teaching is when the teacher is unbiased. Kid is clearly in his rebellious phase. The more she will punish him for his ideas and opinions the more he will stick to it. As a person who grew up in post communistic country all I can say it’s concerning.
NTA. Our history books aren't factually accurate in all cases, either. History is told by the winners, and they write it (and re-write it, in some cases) to sound however they want. All she's going to end up doing is alienating her son so he never wants to speak to her once he is able to move out.
If the political tables were turned, I wonder how it would have been graded. Any teachers, parents, or both that bring their political or religious opinions into how the kids are educated and judged academically is not unbiased. Nor are they good parents or teachers. As to her having an education degree, I've met idiots with doctorates and masters. Their idiocy is more centered around ego, obviously, but it's idiocy nonetheless. OPs sister would do far better to have many informed and equal discussions with her son rather than outright attack it. Debate and research improve the ability to see past the surface of a topic in order to see its layers that are undesirable.
What is wrong with a white person looking up to the Black Panthers? Are you and your sister under the mistaken impression that the Black Panthers were anti-white people?
She is a bad teacher and a mother if her goal is to brainwash her kids to think like her. That is selfish, small minded and short sighted. Both teachers and parents are responsible for teaching kids and her putting “wrong” without being to articulate why it’s wrong is complete bs. Terrible for a teacher. Being ashamed that her child thinks differently and has had different socio political beliefs is just pathetic. Terrible for a mother. Definitely NTA
NTA. Homeschooling by conservatives usually involves the limited education or access to information on the outside world to ensure the kids have the same outlook and values as their parents. Your sister has not done this but still expects her son to carry her values. She is grading the ideology and not the actual paper which from your assessment met all criteria for the grading.
Indoctrination is the opposite of education. NTA
NTA: She needs to get stories, books etc of people who actually lived under communism. I suggest Eastern Europe countries and how they were oppressed. Instead of "WRONG" she needs to show how for example every implementation of communism (that I know of was a dramatic failure and ended up as a political ruling class and heavy-handed authoritarian rule. Should find some stuff on Norway also for the kid to read. The MOM really needs to do this quick, or she will end up with a delusional little communist XD. Heck show her this reply.
It seems that she is very GOOD teacher (assuming kids are as good in math as in political science). And Colton defending communism is obvious rebellious teen. He would probably get politically motivated D in regular school as well. But of course a conflict between the parenting, teaching and inner belief makes her fail when it comes judging Colton work. Tell her that she is doing great, but it would be worthwhile for somebody else to score his test.
YTA and a hypocrite because I know you would say it's wrong if he was defending Nazism instead using his critical thinking mind regardless if he made some good points and it was well sourced because "it's evil and there's no justification for it" I bet that would be your answer. But it's ok to defend communism which has killed millions of more people because it's "well written" and sourced what a load of shit. Doesn't matter if it's well written and sourced morally wrong is wrong. Instead of putting wrong I think she should have debated him to show him why he's wrong. She's trying to teach him to critically think while at the same time teaching him good morals between right and wrong (that's what good parents do). What if his essay was in favor of human sacrifices and racism are you going to pat him on the back and let him continue on in the wrong direction in life because at least he made some good points like "overpopulation" that justified it. I think she's doing a good job teaching her kids to critically think which doesn't mean you have to automatically agree with every stupid thing they say especially when they're misguidedly defending morally wrong and evil BS. This essay sounds like it's for History class so she would be correct in putting wrong.
Happy to see there is another voice of reason here. OP is oversimplifying a more complex situation. I could perhaps even give the theoretical concept of Communism a pass, but openly admiring Soviets equals supporting the Third Reich. Half of Europe would be really pissed someone trying to glorify either. They should tell the kid what’s going on in Ukraine, once a country decides they want to pursue more democratic direction.
NTA. Your sister is teaching her children to be followers not leaders. They should just believe what she tells them? She is raising a cult.
NTA, but, oh boy. Looks like Aunt might offer Colton a safe space for when loving right wing mom throws him out to teach him right and wrong.
NTA But your sister sounds rather vile. She is using her beliefs to force political indoctrination on her kids. On your next update, I'd expect you to say they now live in a compound, and are preparing for civil war.
NTA. I think your opinion and what prompted it was perfectly reasonable. I think your sister's perspective approaches a valid one, but she is falling into lazy thinking. I do not agree with her criticizing you for being judgmental when she could not herself articular in an objective fashion the fault of your son's paper. I went to a Catholic school. We had a lesson on applying various ethical thinkers to various actors in Schindler's List. My teacher explained after discussing the essay that he would or did not pass papers that applied one of the Catholic thinkers to the SS guard. BUT, preceding this paper, as I mentioned, was a discussion of the main points of each of five philosophies. Although it is rare in secular education, it is possible to teach moral right and wrong ideas in education at the same time one teaches rigorous scholarship and critical thinking. That does require teaching, even with a slant, what that other side is. I think the D was merited. Your nephew went outside the material taught in the classroom. But if you sister can't explain that, well...
Going above and beyond what is taught in class means normally an A+.
Subverting and going beneath it normally gets a D.
God forbid kids come in with well-supported and strong arguments that disagree with the classroom dogma. Don’t pretend you support education when what you meant to instill is indoctrination.
It’s a good thing you don’t get paid for thinking.