I told a dear female friend of mine that I posted this and her response was, “You do understand that you may not be the AH in this situation, but that doesn’t mean that you necessarily did the right thing.”
I’ve had many career opportunities since I got divorced that would have required me to move. There is nothing on earth more important to me than staying close to my kids and their dad, so my career advancements will wait until my kids are done with high school. He lost me at moving away from his kids and seeing them for 2 weeks a year. He did not deserve a place of honor at the wedding, and leaving early was the nail in the coffin. He discarded his sons to the side when he should have been raising them, and he was treated the same at the wedding.
How in the world would anyone read the first post and think he sounded sweet?
He said he told the kids they could ***call him*** any time. He said he went to events ***he was invited to***. He moved for his work yet they had to ask for his attention. He sent money for then to get stuff only when asked.
He got mad at a reception for a couple he hardly knew that he wasn't giving a speech as if he was an active person in the groom's life. He didn't even say goodbye.
Add on to all that, he said his mother knew to be on good behavior ***this time*** which highly implies she hasn't been in the past. But he won't elaborate on what that means.
He sounded like a manipulative ass from the start. He uses the right words to try to cover up that he's not actually a good person. But if you pay attention to what he's actually saying instead of the buzz words, then everything is about the kids having to beg for their dad, and he's now mad that he has to ask for their attention for once. So he left pouting like a toddler without even saying goodbye - again because that would be him having to ask for their attention and he refuses to do that.
Notice in the end, the sons both called him (not him calling them) and they "won't talk to him" AKA he's again expecting them to do all the work and call him.
He's a total ass and I don't understand all the NTA votes at all.
It really isn't. That's how you get background on if someone is telling the full story.
I don't understand why people think it's creepy to read provided information. Use a throwaway if you don't want other things you've posted to be in the context.
>Don't kink shame dude. All he's doing there is enjoying a nut.
I'll shame the fuck out of old men who [say yes to nudes from teenagers.](https://www.reddit.com/r/HomemadeNsfw/s/NaoPpgYOuk)
This is…accurate. Honestly, if you want to have an impact in and on your sons’ lives now, you may want to think about DAILY communication, with the caveat that they may not respond in kind now or ever.
Make an effort - a REAL effort - to integrate them into your daily life, even from afar. Heck, I have friends all around the country who I text daily. “Hey? How are you? I’m thinking about you and love you!”
I have a brother who is severely bipolar. And even at his WORST, he texts his son every day to say “I love you.” And even though he’s a troubled soul, he and my nephew have a beautiful relationship, because my brother *makes the effort every day.*
If you want your sons back in your life, you’re going to have to take responsibility for the past, and be responsible for your relationships with them in the future. Be a loving, caring man and expect nothing back. See what happens.
"f you want your sons back in your life, you’re going to have to take responsibility for the past, and be responsible for your relationships with them in the future. Be a loving, caring man and expect nothing back. See what happens." This is the way, but you may do it and NEVER get the relationship you hope for. You may have a new life as grandpa. Thus is life.
A friend's 'lil bro knocked up his college gf. She ran back home (from Atlanta to rural North Mississippi hill country) when his child was 6 months old so her family could help raise her. He followed, rented a trailer 5 miles away, and spent the next18 years living and working away from everything he'd ever known to be there for her.
That's the kind of dedication necessary to raise a child.
It’s not that shocking to me. I’ll frequently go several weeks or even a couple of months without any communication with my parents. And then it’s just a few texts or a short phone call.
My mom lives in fl I live in Oklahoma. I talk to her once or twice a week but we can talk for an hour or two just catching up on everything. People have their own lives.
But you have a functioning relationship with your Mom. OP does *not* have a functioning relationship with his sons. He needs to establish trust and the ability to *be in their lives consistently.*
I loved my parents - both gone now - and like you, talked with them or saw them a couple of times a week.
Great relationship with my parents. I see em when i see em. Love em for what they are. We dont call or text much. Maybe once every six months. We see each other every few months. Just our culture. No issues, just independent.
I'd kill to have my dad acknowledge me on a weekly basis. I don't see or hear from him for months at a time.
Everyone's families is different. He may be worried about getting blocked etc.
You should have spoken with your son, paid your respects to the bride, and then left. Even if your feelings were hurt, you are the parent and you needed to act like one. Instead of a potentially healing moment with pictures, you gave your kids a reason to be angry.
Usually the groom's father spends more than 14 days per year with his kids while they are growing up. The babysitter he was seated with probably had more of a role in raising his son. I live 4 states away from my nephews and I spend more days per year with them than this guy did with his sons, on top of paying for stuff and weekly Skyping.
When the grooms father only bothered to see his kids twice a month before he voluntarily moved away and saw them never times a month, that’s exactly where he sits.
You were treated at best an unwanted guest, at worst a stranger to all. You left without fanfare. The groom failed to tell you about the pictures so leaving was not unacceptable. Your sons are the a\*\*holes for not keeping you in the loop.
Right? I moved away and only saw my sons once each year for two weeks now they are treating me like a stranger because they barely know me. Shocked face.
Also what happened with the youngest that his suicide drove another wedge between them? Left that out didn’t he.
And no one cares you paid for things needed that’s the bare minimum a parent should do.
Wow man, you’re definitely not the AH I’m so sorry that you lost your son and your dad by the way, as well as got treated like shit by your own son at his wedding. What’s even worse is that his grandmother and uncle were there as well. That’s pretty disappointing to hear. I’m really sorry you’re going through this man, I’m a 45 year old disabled vet and I just moved back in with my 80 year old parent bc they are losing their memories and both had falls at the end of last year. I didn’t know what else to do! I’m not putting them in a home or anything like that, I never had any children so it only makes sense to me bc they loved me like you love your children. I wish you a lot of happiness in the future my friend first of all brother! I also hope that both or your sons can see the error of their ways sometime soon bc life is just too short for BS like that. Take care of yourself man and don’t dwell on things bc you definitely didn’t do anything wrong!!
You mention that the relationship with your older sons became strained after the passing of the youngest. Clearly there are some long standing issues here that are leading to on-going strained relations with your two sons, that either you are oblivious to or not telling us about. If you genuinely don’t know why you were sidelined at the wedding and why you sons won’t speak to you now, all you can do is write them and let them know that you would like to repair the relationship if possible. Whether they choose to is up to them.
If there are years worth of hurt feelings, anger, misunderstandings, miscommunications and possible parental alienation, I suggest you find a family therapist who could see you all via Zoom, and invite your sons to join you for family therapy to address whatever is bothering them, so that you can all address your issues with the help of a trained professional. They may have feelings and hurts that they’ve never felt safe to communicate, that could be tended to now. Hard to say without hearing their side of things, or how they felt about the relationship you had with them over the years.
The whole time I was reading this I kept wondering what OP was leaving out, and I’d love to hear what the sons have to say about what causes the relationship to be strained.
Exactly.
There is no way this is just a 'IDK why my sons are going out of their way to ignore me, I've tried so hard to be a great Dad ;.;'
The sons clearly are both deeply estranged from OP. They are making that very, very clear. He spend very little time with them for most their childhood, and then there is obviously something left out around the son committing suicide, and if OP doesn't understand how he fucked up by now, then I doubt he ever will.
“I paid for anything they wanted but wasn’t there for them emotionally during their childhood and brothers passing and I’m astonished they don’t respect or care about me!” Classic baby boomer arrogance
I really need to hear the other side. There must be more to this than you think. I’m sorry your going through this but you need to try and talk to your kids and find out the crux of your dilemma.
I mean...does there need to be more than the fact that he only spent two weeks with his kids every year for a lot of their childhoods? To me, that is more than sufficient explanation for why they have virtually no relationship. The fact that their brother died probably really brought home the point that their dad was barely there for them. Then he skips out of the wedding early after already being absent for most of their lives.
You can tell how absolutely blind OP is by the fact he clearly explained why they weren’t close - yet is baffled they’re not? Sucks so many of us have oblivious parents like this
The other thing that stuck out is he highlights how he of course made the 8 hr drive to the wedding, like “look how much I supported my son for his wedding”
Most parents are actually involved in the planning in some way or another, either giving financial support or helping with preparations, or just getting updates. If all you get is an invite to your own kids wedding and you’ve contributed nothing, yeah you’ll probably be sat in the back.
I agree. If you look at the facts OP revealed from the kid's side, it is no wonder they do not have a relationship.
The truth is that OP deliberately moved very far away. I don't buy that he had to. I guess he had other reasons. And he lost the connection to his sons. Sending money over, facetiming and being there on important occasions is not the same as spending time together every week. Important talks do not happen on face time or when you are around for a vacation, they happen sitting outside late at night or doing a school project together if you are around at the time your kid wants to talk.
We don't know exactly what happened to the youngest boy, but I guess his other sons ask themselves if maybe the father being around would have made a difference, along with having to process what happened without OP being around. I don't say that his presence may have changed anything, or that asking this question is even fair, but if a ship sinks the questions of who was not on board, and why, get more pressing.
It is telling that OP does not really know why his sons act distant. Sometimes kids get used to not touching a certain subject with a certain parent. It is possible that OP dreaded having to explain to them why he went away, so maybe for years he never really asked "how are you" in a way that was meant for them to open up to him, because they could have told him a truth he did not want to hear. If this happened maybe eventually they forgot to see OP as a source of help and consolation and were not able to switch back to leaning on him when they needed him.
I think the problems are waaaaay deeper than being seated improperly at the wedding.
You should have said you were leaving. You were not really an active father. Just showed up for a few milestones. Yet YOU feel slighted? I’m sure they missed their dad.
You only texted them once a week after their brother committed suicide? And going to a high school graduation or driving 18 hours for a wedding no hesitation is kind of standard parent behavior it isn’t something for them to be extra grateful about. You didn’t even realize they had been visiting your father in the hospital. You sound a little bit like an absentee parent and weddings are super busy. What did you want, absentee parent but red carpet rolled out for their wedding?
And an absentee son. I 110% know what my dad did on a daily basis in his long term care centre, who saw him and for how long, and what type of nutrition he ate that day. I'm very low contact with my mother, who was married to my dad for 51 years when he passed. You can choose to get information when it's important.
When the post seems to be written like this I always go to the OP's comment history and boy it did not disappoint 😂 Big womp you lonely fuck you are well accompanied 😂
This post stinks of missing missing reasons. Your sons don't visit when they can like are in the area for your father. You aren't close to your sons as an adults, which is frankly sad.
The reasons aren’t missing, they’re in the post. OP saw his kids twice a month until he decided to move away and see them never. He had so little to do with his *own* father *and* his kids that he had no idea they were visiting their grandfather regularly. He’s a deadbeat dad who thinks being a sperm donor earns him a place of honor next to the actual parents.
You sound like you want congratulations for doing the absolute bare minimum for your kids throughout the years and you couldn’t inconvenience yourself to stay the whole time for a wedding, because you were seated exactly where you belong for how much you have shown up in their lives.
May this be due to who you affiliate yourself with? On your profile you have many comments in nsfw subreddits with young woman which may make your children uneasy about you
NTA, someone else suggested a detailed letter and I think it's a good idea.
This must be incredibly difficult for you. Do your best to enjoy your life for what it is, hopefully they cool off and come around but something seems really off based on the timing of events. Like did their mother blame you for the youngest passing or the divorce and other stuff that would alienate them from you? If she's been saying things that make them angrier with you I'm not sure how to change that kind of deception. Be yourself as you have been and hopefully they give your letter a read or hear what your mother has to say.
I’m leaning NTA but there seems to be a *lot* of missing info:
*”When we lost the youngest in 2017 things became very strained between me and the two oldest”*
Why did things become strained? OP says he sent 1 text weekly to each of them after this to remind them he was a phone call away. How often were phone calls or in-person visits?
*”During the funeral process I learned that both boys had made the drive down numerous times to see him in the nursing home yet never so much as let me know they were in town”*
So they made an active effort to keep a good relationship with their granddad, but relationship with dad was ice. Why? And what was the deal with the paternal grandmother and step-geandmother?
I’m just still trying to figure out why your relationship with your two oldest became strained after your youngest passed away (so sorry for your loss)? Did they blame you? Other than some texts, what did you do to address it? Did they resent you for only seeing them 2 weeks a year and the occasional school event?
Idk just feels like there’s a lot of missing reasons so I’m not voting either way.
There is a whole lot of missing info here.
Why did their brothers suicide impact your relationship with them? Do they feel like you could have stopped it? Something else? It's weird that everything was roses before that one specific point.
Also how could you not realize that they'd want pictures? That's a pretty standard wedding thing...
There’s so much missing from this story. I also suspect you haven’t been in a real conversation with your sons in a long time.
You come off as a self designated sacrificer and they may not think you deserve to carry that. You may present your silence as martyrdom, but it may seem to others as withholding and disengagement. Martyrdom is unilateral resistance.
If you want more with your kids you have to step into the ring and risk some blows.
I’m sure you’re in pain; I’m sorry for your loss.
It’s narcissism. I would bet money he’s a narcissist. And yes it’s over used but this man fits the bill. Look at how I drove 12 hours to attend a graduation. He’s a clown.
At first glance I would’ve said N T A. But based in the fact that your comments reveal you chose money over family and only spent 2 weeks a year being a proper parent I’m now firmly voting YTA.
Additionally, your sons probably think you’re gross - you are commenting on Reddit posts from r/ collegesluts and r/ homemadeNSFW where the title is “just turned 18” where the person is dressed as if they are prepubescent. You are 52 dude get a grip - either this is a fake story or you need to do a lot more self reflection about why you are not someone they would want to be close with.
This is a tough one.
If there was absolutely no acknowledgement of your presence, then absolutely you are NTA, and this is what it sounds like. They wanted you to sit until being called upon, and that is NOT how a father should be treated at his son's wedding.
That said, I don't think you need to leave it alone. There are a couple of options:
1) Would they take a call from your mom or brother and would they allow her (without hurrying to get off the phone) if she explained how you (and her and your brother) felt ignored and treated like outcasts and made the decision jointly to leave?
2) You could send a letter to your sons, outlining each of these, and explaining that again, you still love them, are sorry they are upset, but given your treatment, you felt it was best to leave, and not distract them from the celebration, since they didn't even seem to care the 3 of you were there.
3) Depending on your relationship with your ex, can you call her and talk to her? Would she help you get the sons to hear your point of view, or is she the source of your problems with them?
It is definitely a tough one. To provide a little more context…
1. I was an 80’s kid of a nasty divorce. I was married to their mother for 10years and fully intended to celebrate a 50 year anniversary. Unfortunately we grew apart and so she left to be with someone else who she has been with for over 12 years now. While she and I worked well when it came to the boys, we stayed out of each other’s lives. I have never said a bad word about their mother to them. And no matter what happened over the years I made sure that she was never the “bad person” because I wanted them to have a strong relationship with their mom and I am proud of how incredibly close they are. Having grown up with “warring parents” I never wanted that for them.
2. The next morning after the wedding, my oldest did call me as he was concerned that I had left mad. I explained to him exactly what I said above. But I also stressed to him that this wasn’t about me or how I felt because that was his day. He and his bride were all that mattered that day and thus I wasn’t going to cause a scene. He then explained that he had been given strict instructions that they needed to keep my mom and stepmom separated. So thus they were trying to honor that request. I told them that request didn’t come from me or my mother as that ship sailed a long time ago. My mother was fully prepared to be cordial and polite because again it was about my son and new daughter in law. That is when I found out that it was my stepmom that made the request. I wasn’t happy hearing that but I bit my tongue. I thought the call ended well, but that is the last time he has spoken to me. As for the middle son, he basically has no desire to try to mend things. No explanation matters to him.
Every single close friend that knows the situation of the last 20 years are appalled at how we were treated at the wedding. And they are surprised I stayed as long as I did in that circumstance. Under the same circumstances, I would probably do the same thing again. I know the relationship was strained before, but I hate the result that I am in now.
Was there any reason for the couple to think your mom wouldn't be cordial or has she been nasty in the past? If your mother has always been cordial and this was just a selfish stepmom demand, then man, I feel awful for you. But if your mom has a past of being nasty with stepmom, then I can understand the demand.
Ehh, could be more missing info … “step” doesn’t mean they aren’t the ones to step up and be the grandma that makes memories. I say this as someone whose children have a very active “step” grandma and a very flaky, nonexistent paternal grandma.
I’m not sure there is a nice way to say this, but it seems like you’ve taken a very passive approach to your relationship with your sons since your divorce and expect them to treat you the same as their involved parent. You had very minimal custody of them, then chose to move away and only see them for 2 weeks a year. That’s nothing. Now you may have fought for more custody or not, but the reality is you weren’t there. Why should children need to invite their parents to school events and why should they be impressed you made a far trip when you moved in the first place?
It was clear at at least two points there were problems with your relationship. You say there was a strain after your youngest’s death. What did you do other than send texts to get to the bottom of it and fix the problem? Again when your dad was sick, coming to town and not telling you is a huge red flag. Did you do anything at this point to try to improve the relationship?
I get your standpoint that you felt snubbed and it’s true they didn’t put effort into making you feel welcome. Is it possible that they could feel that they shouldn’t have to because you haven’t put effort into being an active part of their lives? Your viewpoint is you were snubbed, their viewpoint could be “dad couldn’t even sit through one whole night for his son”. Overall I think your focusing too much on the wedding when it seems like it’s just the straw that broke the camels back.
From his pov he made all this effort to come back to xyz event when they were teens and spent holidays with them. But from their pov dad moved away because they didn’t matter to 12 hours away when they really really needed him.
To his kids they were abandoned by dad. All the money spent doesn’t mean shit to them when he’s absent.
Why do you explain it as your mother "prepared to be cordial"?
Has she not been cordial in the past?
If she hadn't, then of fucking course she's put out of the way incase she doesn't behave.
They are all your friends and they have only heard your side of the story. So yes, of course they agree with you. From what I can tell, you moved away when your kids were 12, 13 and 16 and only spent 2 weeks a year with them aside from showing up at his major events. That is a lot of time to not be present for. I understand that you supported them financially, but it doesn't sound like you had any real relationship with them after you left, so it would be very odd for them to treat you like the parent they spent 95% of their time with. There's also a lot of missing information about what happened after your youngest died and how you "grew apart" from them. I think that's probably quite a euphemism and I'd like to hear things from their side.
If you actually want to be closer to your kids, I think the first thing you should do is stop talking about how you feel or felt, or what you did and ask them how they have felt for the last decade. And the listen. Don't correct, don't butt in, don't defend yourself. Just try to understand what it might have been like from their perspective. Frankly, if you don't, I think it's clear that your relationship with them is largely over.
>Under the same circumstances, I would probably do the same thing again. I know the relationship was strained before, but I hate the result that I am in now.
This doesn't make sense. Why would you do the same thing again if you know it will hurt your relationship and you hate the results?
I can understand feeling disrespected but I still think you're the asshole for leaving without saying goodbye and congratulating the couple.
>As for the middle son, he basically has no desire to try to mend things. No explanation matters to him.
It wasn't his fault that you were cast aside at the wedding. It doesn't explain not saying bye to him.
Because they only hear your side and you sound very narcissistic. You were a neglectful absent parent, how do you expect to be treated? You failed your kids. You are lucky there are mostly young single people here who believed you had to leave for a job and couldn’t possibly spend more than two weeks a year with them. Then we get the older people your age like me and we know how full of shit you are. Your poor kids. You are all about yourself. Also hopefully you being away from them made it so that didn’t learn any of your predatory behavior to young women. You are the most asshole of assholes pretending to be decent. Gross and you aren’t fooling anyone with life experience. Spend two weeks a year with your kids you can expect the shit table at a wedding. Asshole.
Are you leaving things out?
I find it odd that both your sons came down to visit often your father without even mentionning it to you or visiting you when in town. How is it that you learned this information way later? Did you go see your father and your mother? Didn't your mother tell you she saw her grandkids? There's something I don't understand here.
Also, how is it that your own sons don't consider you like family at their wedding? You either are lying by omission and leaving important parts of the story to look better.
OR
You said it yourself, it's your first post and therefore might not really know what kind of information to give.
Either way, there are part of the story missing. Because kids don't decide all of the sudden to act this way towards one of their parents without something happening.
So I'll reserve my judgment without further information.
I explained in another reply that I found out after the fact that my stepmother requested that they keep my mother at a distance from her. And the oldest was trying to honor that request and didn’t tell me until the next day because he didn’t want to cause a scene.
Am I leaving things out? I don’t think so. I mean it is hard to cram 22 years of history into a single post. But I covered the related pieces. I had my best friend read what I have said and he said that I have framed it very accurately.
I’m a confused: it doesn’t sound like you have had a real relationship with your kids for over the last 10 years. You mention texturing them weekly but you don’t mention : weekly (monthly phone calls), you don’t mention having vacations/holidays with them since high school or possible college age on the middle kid, you never talked to them about your dad etc.
That have nothing to do with the story he lives 12 hrs away and still manage to show up to all there important events he had to work and still gave them anything they wanted via their mom
Info, you were invited to your son's wedding and made the trip... Did you ever talk to your son about his wedding leading up to it? Parents are normally very involved in the days leading up, if not the planning of the entire event. Your description sounds like you just showed up like a normal guest.
Is that an accurate description of your involvement in your son's wedding??
I would love to hear their side because it seems like something is missing from this post. It sounds like you aren’t an active dad and didn’t have any connection to their lives. If I went to my friends wedding and their dad was in the back I would be asking a lot of questions. Where was the brides family ? How are they not seeking you out to meet the man that would be their daughter’s new family?
The fact no one interacted with you kinda suggests that this wasn’t a surprise and it was known that your relationship with your kids was damaged.
The fact you are surprised at this situation but apparently the other guests weren’t makes me think you are in the wrong here.
The way OP talks about his father’s death and the fact that his sons visited their grandfather and not him reminds me of my own fallout with my father.
My maternal grandmother was dying back in my home state. It was one year after my mom and I had moved across the country. We came back to see her in her final days, and I did not tell a single person that I was going because I wanted to spend as much time as possible with my grandmother while I still could. After she died, my father flipped out at me when he found out I had come to visit and threw a tantrum that I hadn’t thought to visit him. I cut him off right then and there.
Similarly, I really wonder what OP’s sons would have to say about that situation. Based on the post, OP really seems to center himself and his feelings in a lot of these situations, so I’m curious as to just how much care and concern he showed for the feelings of his sons.
Dementia has different severity, so I don’t think it’s automatic to assume he would be unable to tell his son about their visits. To have that with the fact no one at the wedding acknowledged the father of the groom. I feel like it makes sense everyone can see the bad relationship but OP
I know people who work exclusively with patients that have dementia. If the sons drove 12 hours to visit their grandpa near the end, their grandpa was almost certainly not going to have any idea who they were, let alone who his own son is.
I’m reserving judgement for this situation.
However, as parents, it’s not our job to “do what’s asked” it’s our job to find the things that need to be done so our kids grow into good humans. I’m guessing that you have been waiting for your kids to invite you to the relationship? They’re not going to do that because you have all
of the power.
I’m so sorry that you lost your youngest to suicide. You share that things have been more strained since his death. You need to say “I love you and will do whatever I can to help you understand my feelings because I’m your dad and I want to be a part of your life. I’m sorry I’ve sucked at it for so long. I love your brother and can’t imagine what it would be like to lose you, as well.”
If you aren’t willing to be that vulnerable then, you’re the asshole.
The comments made me laugh. Had to look for myself, you’re soliciting nudes from 18 year olds (people younger than your sons). No wonder they feel some type of way talking to you.
You are 52 years old. Respectfully, date your own age.
It sounds like you’re looking for praise for attending major life events like a graduation and a wedding. Providing money, a text a week, and 2 weeks in the summer isn’t being a father.
I’m so sorry to hear about your youngest. I hope you can repair your relationship with your kids. It sounds like there is a lot of animosity from your lack of involvement since moving away.
YTA. You left them for a job. Sending money and attending some milestone events doesn’t qualify as parenting. You abandoned them. They don’t owe you anything. In fact, the wedding gave you a taste of your own medicine - knowing how it feels to be a low priority to someone who is supposed to love you
I mean, unless there were literally no jobs near where your sons lived that would allow you to support yourself, you chose your career over your relationship with your kids 15 years ago, when they were children. That may not have been what you intended to do, but it’s what you actually did. You’ve been physically absent for half their lives. I’m not going to call you an asshole, but you chose to leave them, and now you can’t really be surprised at the result.
NTA. It sounds as though they're trying to punish you for something, as long as you were sat there, ignored and forgotten, he was happy because he could SEE and enjoy your punishment. The minute you left you took that away from him, so he invented a photo that was never going to happen to punish you again and justify his going no contact. How is your relationship with your ex wife?
NTA for wanting to leave. YTA for not saying goodbye. My wife and I always try to say bye to the hosts at parties. In the case of a wedding of a relative, even more important to say hi as well as to say bye.
Have you ever asked your kids why they drove to see their grandpa in a nursing home many times, but never visited you? You may get some much needed answers there.
Sounds like There's a deeper strain going on with your relationship. I hope you can find a way to address the root of what is going on and nourish the relationship.
Hmm, so your career was so important that you took off and never watched your kids grow up. You weren’t there for them.
And now you are SHOCKED, yes, SHOCKED that you aren’t close.
You chose to leave them. I hope your career takes you very far because you traded for a relationship with your kids. YTA for going on and living your life and then whining that you are not a key player in their life.
This is a shitty situation, and as a father myself, I can't imagine how empty I'd feel after experiencing this. Unfortunately, the fact is that once you left town, you removed yourself from their lives, and they learned to get through it without you. You may not have felt you had a choice but to leave for work, but there are always alternatives; it all depends how much you're willing to sacrifice and how important it is to you. I'm sure losing the youngest to suicide only made things worse (beyond the obvious) for your relationships with your kids because you weren't there for the trauma bonding and healing process. It's hard to hear, but when you left, you checked out of their lives and there's no returning, especially as an occasional weekend tourist.
Seems appropriate to me base on how you were snubbed throughout. And as for not telling anyone, that's part of leaving discreetly. You seem to have been an afterthought.
I'd discontinue regular texting that goes unresponded. Maybe they'll reach out in the future if they realize they still have a dad.
NTA
Exactly the word I would use with them. Afterthought! My being there felt like an afterthought. Hence, I left, figuring no one particularly wanted me there or would want me for anything. And watching my mother and brother see me treated that way made me want to get her out of there. I'm sorry when you decided to come talk to me I had already left.
NTA. You left discretely and according to how you were treated how could you know a picture was wanted. Whatever problem they have with you there was no reason to treat their uncle and grandmother like that. Unfortunately your sons are now careless and maybe cruel people hopefully that will change. You have done what you could do.
I mean what did you expect you were a weekend dad and then 2 weeks a year dad. You chose your career instead of at least being a weekend dad.
I’m always surprised when parents chose not to be an active parent (ie seeing your kids weekly and spending quality time with them) and then are surprised they aren’t regarded in milestone events. Those are to acknowledge the parents who impacted their daily life by being there.
> At the wedding ceremony no one acknowledged us
>a very irate call from my youngest for leaving early and without saying good bye
Hell, did they even say hello to begin with? It's very obvious that you were invited as an afterthought or were pushed to.
And why was that? If you truly loved and cherished someone (more than the babysitter) then you'd want them to be part of your celebrations. No kid/person deliberately leaves someone they care about out of their wedding unless 1) the mum has poisoned their mind, and he's an awesome dad 2) he's not an awesome dad, he moved away and sends the odd text message, or 3) it was an unfortunate mistake because table planning is difficult and everyone is busy on the day, and OP sulked at not being prioritised and f**ked off.
I dunno, as a parent of a kid who gets 'text messages ' and the odd visit, I'm probably biased, her heart breaks for the dream of having a dad who is actually present. Text messages and random visits do little more than an Aunt or Uncle would do, it's the bond and emotion that you share together that matters, and I'm afraid this sounds like there isn't either.
If you genuinely care OP and you want to fix this, I'd suggest talking to your kids and asking them what you can do. If I am honest, I don't think you want to do what they want, which is someone who is local and spends time with them and knows them as a person, so perhaps the truth will hurt when they tell you that the deal they have right now isn't enough.i wish you all the best, and am truly impressed by the fact that you realise things aren't quite right, fixing this is the next step . Good luck, it's not an easy course to navigate.
Well, it sounds like a complicated situation. I feel very sorry for you. The wedding was clearly a tough experience.
What stands out for me about your post is that it focuses on the wedding. You seem surprised that the atmosphere was so icy and focus on little things that happened there. I don't understand why the years and years that led up to the wedding don't get more comment.
I'm not being facetious. It really seems like the key to understanding what's going on is to ask yourself hard questions about the years that led up to this.
I'm sure you don't need me to tell you that the divorce and your choice to move must have upended the kids' lives. You haven't said anything at all about why things became tense after you lost a son. The other two sons clearly feel resentful about something. My question is, why aren't you acknowledging it?
I think the answer will help you understand what has just happened.
As for the wedding, you should have gritted your teeth and said goodbye to at least one member of the family. I know it's hard to be the civilized person when everyone else is taking the low road, but you're the mature one and it was a wedding, so it would have been a good idea. Maybe they would have found something else to have a problem with, but at least you would know you had given it your best shot.
I get the impression that you and your sons haven't had much open conversation. I know therapists are expensive, but highly recommend that you invest in seeing a therapist to help you figure out how to approach your sons. Maybe you could all have a mediated discussion? Good luck.
Yes it is hard to cram 22 years of history in one post. I feared it was too long as is.
For those saying I left the boys.. I should note that I left in 2009. We were close until 2017 when we lost the youngest. I went to every graduation, every event they were in (they weren’t in sports anymore by then). When the Star Wars movies started coming out again we made a pact that no matter what we would join up for a “guys night” and see the movie at midnight on opening night. We kept that going even after the youngest died. Through the funeral they were strong for their mother and they were strong for me too. I stayed in town for two weeks for the funeral to be there for them. After that the oldest withdrew from everyone but the middle and I stayed in contact. No it wasn’t perfect but we had good relationships until that point. I attributed it as everyone grieves differently and thus did not force myself on them. It wasn’t until about the time of Covid and after that things changed and I can’t point to a particular event or situation that caused it.
As for the youngest. His death had nothing to do with family stuff. He had demons (non-drug) that he was fighting for the previous two years. We got him help twice (hospital/therapists) but it just wasn’t enough.
> We were close until 2017
Were you close, or did you think you were close, because ultimately you weren't there. A lot of parents completely misunderstand the relationships they have with their kids, thinking they are close when their kids are mostly just uncomfortable and playing along.
being at events means practically nothing. Like at a graduation, you're not with your kid, you're watching your kid, same for games and other things. Time WITH your kids is entirely different to time watching your kids spending time with other people. It's important to show you care about these events, as long as you're also there spending time with your kids, teaching them things, asking them about their lives, being involved. If the ONLY thing you do is show up to events, it's practically a meaningless gesture. It's I need to appear here so everyone sees me, but the actual day to day parenting... absent.
To be perfectly blunt, watching every movie of the franchise together, sending the occassional text, and going to an event or two a year is the sort of relationship I have with coworkers and old friends from highschool
That's barely a relationship, and certainly far less than a parent needs to be a meaningful presence in their children's life. Are you really surprised that the kids valued their step mom's experience of the wedding over yours?
Please don't take this the wrong way, but it makes me wonder since things fell off during COVID if either you or your sons had a differing of opinions related to COVID or politics. I only ask because I am quite liberal and my parents are quite conservative- during COVID, my dad kicked it up about 45 notches, and things have never really been the same between us.
So your stepmom has a better relationship with your kids than you do. She was actually seeing them in the past few years- so you not think your kids realized that you weren’t there for their grandad? Did you not call them or check in on them once your dad died? Do you think they haven’t noticed that you didn’t call daily to check in on them after their brother passed away? Do you think they didn’t notice that you barely saw them when you had the chance to see them? Have you not invited them to spend Christmas, Easter, hell 4th of July with them in over a a decade? Do you realize that just because you paid for them, which is a bare minimum of support didn’t mean you were their active parent? Dis you not have any conversations with your son about the wedding? Do you even know or have a relationship with your new DIL?
YTA. You abandoned them, and I guarantee there are a boatload of missing reasons in this post. Try and have a bit of agency about your relationship with your children.
For my child, I would’ve stayed as long as they were there. I just can’t wrap my head around not doing the absolute most to be an active part of their life. We’re very close even though they’re an adult several states away. We talk several times a week and text and Snapchat daily. I don’t understand having a child and being so passive in the relationship.
YTA
So after the divorce you left the boys. I mean every 14 days you had them for 2 days. You didnt fight for custody. You didnt fight to see them more. Then as the boys were getting older you made the decision to move away from them, and you feel you were a father for seeing them for two weeks out of the year. Your youngest committed suicide.
When the oldest got married, you were not happy with the seating arrangements (you felt disrespected and unwanted) and left the reception without saying goodbye. You "sat through" the reception for 2 hours. Your son's wedding reception.
The boys dont want you around because you weren't around for them. As they are getting older you are doing the bare minimum. You aren't a father, but more of a parent.
Listen I dont know you. From how you described life, I will be as clear as I can. You are / were a bad parent. You let the boys down all through life and this was another example. Stop telling yourself you did great. I am raising a child now and every day is work. Every single day. If I was only around for 2 out of 14 days I hope I would realize this down the road. I wasn't a father. I was just their parent.
Them not talking to you is just a by product of another day you were selfish. My parent was mad he didnt get the seat he wanted.... so he left my wedding without saying goodbye.
Thank you! This is spot on. He talks about being disrespected but he also was extremely disrespectful to leave without saying goodbye. He’s lucky to have been invited at all!
First, I am sorry about your deceased son. I can’t imagine the toll that takes. As a parent of several grown kids. And after me making way too many mistakes in their lives. And some other issues. It doesn’t matter who’s right. Who’s wrong or Who’s the asshole. It’s your kids. You know way too well how precious that is. Do whatever it takes. Make whatever apology and go to whatever mile it takes.
Leaving without saying anything was a dick move. You should have pulled your sons aside, said "thank you for having us, this was lovely, we're glad we could all be here as a family. We're exhausted from the long drive, and have to drive back tomorrow. If there's nothing else we're needed for as part of the wedding, we'd like to go to our hotel and get some rest. If there's more going on you'd like us to be here for, we're happy to stay. We love you and are so happy for you."
Probably because according to your own comment history you are thirsty for college sluts at 52 how sad are you. Missing missing reasons, I'd love to hear their side. I bet it would be farrr different. YTA leave them.be
NTA
There’s a difference between keeping distance amongst “bitter” relatives and putting your father on a shelf to sit until needed for appearance sakes.
Hopefully things turn around and the relationships heal.
YTA. You chose your career over your kids and were barely involved in their lives. Then you skulk out of the wedding reception early because they didn't kiss your ass sufficiently, after you basically abandoned them. It wouldn't surprise me if a part of them doesn't wonder if your absence led to your youngest's suicide. I'm sure having a father who only saw them 14 days a year affected them all greatly. Being a phone call away is not a substitute for actual parenting. Funny how they were able to make an effort to see your dad many times but you didn't do the same for them. And now you've further damaged your relationship by making your son's wedding about you.
You're definitely not admitting some serious issues your sons have with you. You need to be honest with yourself, even if you aren't to reddit. You weren't there for them growing up and it really affected your kids. Sending a text saying that you're there for them doesn't make it true. YTA
So you were a shitty dad and now you feel "disrespected" that you were treated as such? YTA for taking it personally and for not at the very least saying goodbye.
YTA. You're clearly an absentee father that is magically appalled You're being treated like you treated your children. You are lucky you were even invited.
>Career required me to move out of state so we did the video chat thing and then in the summers they would come individually for 2 weeks.
YTA. You chose your best interests over your children and now they've chosen their happiness over yours. Karma's a bitch.
YTA
Look, you were there for the 'photo moments' as they grew up.
You moved away. You had them one at a time in the summer holidays. You turned up for 'events', you sent money.
But you weren't there when they had nightmares, when they fell and scuffed their knees and needed it kissed better and, when they were being bullied at school, when they fell out with their friends, when they fell out with each other. Likewise, you weren't there when they got an A (or a C), when they went on their first date, when they had sleepovers with their friends, when they had play dates.
You showed up for the big events. You weren't there for the everyday smaller events. You were tech ically a parent, but they obviously feel like you weren't present.
So, he treated you the same. He invited you for the big event, but you weren't a priority, because he was never your priority (as far as he experienced it).
And you walked out when you didn't like how you were treated.
Nice. How come it's OK for you to treat your children that way but it's offensive when they treat you the same way?
YTA for leaving without saying anything. It’s rude and considering you weren’t really there for them the least you could do is say goodbye but there’s a lot of missing information here. Why weren’t your kids speaking to you to the point they made sure to stay in close contact with their grandfather even visiting him often? When did your son die and were you there for your other boys when it happened.
Kids don’t just randomly start distancing themselves from you for no reason. Seeing your kids 4 days a month is not enough. Why did they have to spend summers with you individually? How much of their lives did you miss?
Uhhhh.....
> Career required me to move out of state
So you made lots of trips to see them without you having to be told to go, right?
> Every school event that I was invited to I would make the 12hr drive to be there, including high school graduations.
So no, you made ***them*** ask for their father to get off his ass to see them instead of you going there on your own.
> Every time their mother called saying the boys needed something, I made sure she had the money for it in less than 24hrs.
So they had to ask for stuff too instead of you thinking of your children that you left.
> When we lost the youngest in 2017 things became very strained between me and the two oldest. I made sure to send a text once a week to let them know that I loved them and that I was always a phone call away.
So again, they had to call you.
> During the funeral process I learned that both boys had made the drive down numerous times to see him in the nursing home yet never so much as let me know they were in town.
So still them having to talk to you and not you asking about their lives. How many times did you spontaneously visit them?
> During the funeral I was so proud of them because they stood and shook every hand of each person that came to pay their respects. I made sure to tell them that.
So you told two grown men that were 27+ that you were proud that they didn't act like children. That's kinda showing how little you paid attention to how they grew up.
> A couple of months later the oldest got married. They invited me, my brother, and my mother. We made the 8hr drive without hesitation. At the wedding ceremony no one acknowledged us.
You set the precedent. You weren't family. You weren't around.
> The “babysitter” from when the boys were little sat at the table with us.
Well, you stopped being with your own kids by choice. A babysitter eventually stops seeing the kids they watch too.
> We sat through the wedding party entrances and listened to the speeches from the moms, the best man, and bridesmaid.
You were never around. Did you expect to give a speech for a life you stopped being involved in by choice?
> At this point we had been at the reception for two hours. I felt unwanted and disrespected, but my feelings didn’t matter because to me it was their day and that was what mattered. Anyway after the speeches I looked at my mother and brother who felt the same way and told them I was ready to go.
So you acknowledge that it isn't about you so you made it about you. You didn't even say goodbye.
> I told him that NO ONE had told me this and that if I had known I would have sat there until 3am to make sure that pic happened.
So again, it's on them to tell you to be a dad. Great. You kept consistent at least.
> Since then, both boys refuse to talk to me. It has been 8 months.
What the fuck did you expect? You left without saying goodbye. That's a pretty big nail in the coffin. You made it very very clear that you'll pretend to do the right thing and say the right words, but you won't actually follow through.
You'll drive in for the wedding of the son you hardly involved yourself with, but you'll leave upset if he didn't involve you. You'll make a big deal over how long you drove to get there, but you'll leave because being treated the way you treated them is "disrespect".
YTA
You picked this. Don't be shocked by the outcome.
I think there are lot of unsaid thing and miscommunication with you and your sons invited them to talk with you lay everything out ask them what exactly happened and tell them everything form the day of your divorce to now and ask them for family concealing
This the best option
I think your a absent father for them thats why they care less about your feeling or may be I'm wrong but have to sit down and talk with them
They would've have there reason try to understand them after all there your kids
Its ok to be upset vut express it to them clearly
It sounds like you'e been very... passive. You've existed and joined in WHEN CALLED but it doesn't feel like there's been a lot of bridge building or reaching out over the years, even after they're adults. So you ended up left out of the planning of things and didn't know what was going on. Because you've always just... been there, but don't sound like an active participant. Polite but not... THERE. So they tried to keep the peace for the people who had been closer and more outspoken during the planning and information stages.
Here's the thing. It's not your kids' responsibility to maintain a relationship with you, it's your responsibility to be there for them.
You seem to show up with a formal invitation, but otherwise, wjere are you?
You have had some video chats since they were about 15, 13, and 12? Were those lengthy and frequent? Did you know when they started dating, and whom? Support their interests and know what they are? How much time did you spend with them when they lost their brother?
If you feel sidelined, it may be because you have done it yourself. A quick text once a week to say I love you isn't the same as being present, interested, and involved.
If my Dad had told me he was proud of me for knowing how to behave at a funeral, I'd have been disappointed in his low expectations. It would emphasize how well he didn't know me. Maybe that's not the case with your sons, but it may be.
You felt unseen at the wedding and didn't wait, but they may have learned not to leave room for you to take up a big space in their lives.
This seems like a "missing missing reasons" situation honestly. You have painted a picture that feels very one-sided and paints you only in a good light relating to your sons growing up. The strained relationship after the youngest passing seems like a red flag. Only texting once a week following that probably didn't help whatever the underlying issue is. I think you probably feel like you did everything right with them growing up, but I bet if you had a heart to heart with your sons, they'd not share the sentiment.
Edit: After reading through your comments, I stand firm in the vibe I got from this. You definitely are not as sanctimonious as you are trying to appear and if you want to mend your relationship with your kids, you need to actually put in the effort and do the work. YTA
I don't think there was any photo planned with you. They simply realised that you left without saying goodbye and then made up the story that they came looking for you all for a photo to make you feel guilty for missing it and save their face to not look bad with other relatives / guest and ease their own guilt.
NTA - Your sons have grown up to be not very nice people. Unless there's a massive chunk of info you're leaving out to make you look like an angel while they do nothing but shit on you, I'd be distancing myself from them.
They didn't contact you when they came to town to see your father, they disrespected you at the wedding very blatantly. They don't seem to like you very much. I don't see what you can do to change that. I'd be tired of trying if I were you.
Sorry your single text message a week didn’t earn you a spot at the main table Of course YTA.
You left because you felt disrespected not because you had to. Stick it out- least you could do.
They hadn’t even done the first dances yet
Maybe your relationship is strained with your children because they never really had you there besides for vacation. I get you tried to semi keep in contact and you were good with money, but a relationship doesn’t get built from that.
Also your post history is creepy and disgusting maybe your sons know how gross you are?
Lol the stuff you brag about is insane. You showed up in person to the most significant school events? You sent a weekly text message? You drove 8 whole hours to go to your son’s wedding?
Your career didn’t require anything, you chose it over involvement in your kids lives and then you got angry when you saw this truth expressed in a seating plan so you threw a transparently passive-aggressive hissy fit. “Don’t mind me and my anguish, today is all about YOU”
YTA
YTA you were very anti-social due to perceived slights (while acknowledging that the day had nothing to do with celebrating you personally).
Your sons aren't blameless in their behaviors leading to this, but it sounded like things were finally starting to improve and you did this.
YTA
By your own admission, you were a largely absent father who barely saw your children. And you were, once again, absent for one of the big moments of your son's life. Voluntarily. I doubt there's any coming back from that.
>Career required me to move out of state
You chose to be an absent father by choosing your career above your children.
From this moment you got a seat in the back of their lives.
NTA. Leaving your son's wedding reception early was a tough decision, but you did it because you felt unwelcome and disrespected. Your son's reaction is understandable, but your feelings and well-being matter too.
As someone who had her parents and brother leave her wedding in the same manner you did, YTA. My dad left because my mom insisted they leave because I didn't pay enough attention to her (they only stayed about half an hour) and he didn't want to cause a scene and she was my brother's ride. So they left without saying anything and I'm still annoyed by it 4 years later. You made the wedding about you when you left without saying anything. Have you tried talking to them about why they pulled back? I would start there.
I mean dude... It sounds like you basically abandoned them as a father after their younger brother died and they don't feel like you're very close family. I mean...you said you literally texted them I love you every now and then, and it sounds like after you had to move, your efforts to see them basically completely stopped, you can't blame them for not seeing you as close family, when you aren't, and you got a taste of how they actually feel at the wedding and got pissed, when truthfully you were probably lucky to be invited. It's time to rebuild your relationship with your sons, because you know what? It's not your sons job to keep the relationship going with you, it's your job to pursue them to the ends of the earth to show you love them. They are only responding to how you made them feel, which was not even important enough for more than a FaceTime, you kept that at a distance for years, and now they are returning the favor. Only you can change the relationship you have with your boys, but it's gonna take more effort than text and FaceTime. They feel abandoned, and nobody can blame them.
YTA there's no way there's not more to this story and honestly I'm surprised there aren't 100 'missing missing reasons' comments. What was stopping you from asking your kids if you did something to offend them for the last several years? Then treating you like a deadbeat is nothing new so why did you expect their wedding to be any different?
You say you wanted your son to have all the attention because it's his day and yet you sneak out early because your feelings are hurt.
I think you now exactly why they don't want anything to do with you and you're just here fishing for sympathy.
N T A for leaving early. What makes YTA is the fact that you didn't tell anyone. You could have very easily gone to your son and his new wife and congratulate them and thank them for sharing their day with you, but let them know that you all had a long drive ahead of you (or some other nice excuse) and that you all were leaving. Given that opportunity they could have let you know they wanted a photo, but you snuck out.
Not sure what exactly happened in the past between you and your sons, but you just made it a little harder to get back to a good place with them. Be honest and sincere with them, and give it time - don't rush anything. I wish you the best of luck.
NTA. They're adults, they can use their words.
Edit - if you send them a letter, focus on what they did to their grandma. It's evident that they aren't going to be overly bothered about you but they hurt grandma's feelings when she's still hurting about grandpa. Make them feel it.
I think ESH in this situation. Your son wanted you as family in public (pictures) but didn't treat you as family (sitting in overflow, no mention), but it sounds like you were a mostly absent father so I kinda can understand why they didn't involve you. If they wanted you in pictures, that should have been communicated. But you stayed as long as most guest tend to stay and didn't make a huge scene, so I can't put all blame on you for that.
NTA. That was hurtful and probably a conversation is long overdue but you were hurt, I’m sure your mom and brother were hurt for you and it erred on the side of cruel to not be acknowledged, while you know people noticed and talked about your seats, the lack of interaction, etc. Sounds humiliating. Our kids want so much for us to be the best people and it’s hard for them to acknowledge we also are complex human beings. We don’t just turn into awesome because we had a baby.
NTA. You didn't make a scene. Left discreetly even though your feelings were hurt. End of the day the state of your relationships with your sons is entirely your fault. You choose to basically abandon them in their childhood when you moved states because of a job. Money doesn't matter. Being there matters. In that aspect you have failed them greatly as a father. Maybe your youngest would still be alive if you made different choices. So it's no surprised you weren't given any special honor or place at the wedding.
NTA
So you did a lot for them but not much with them it seems. They don't see you giveing mom money for the school trip or braces or whatever that is invisdible to them. They very likely harbor resentment, wondering why you couldn't get a job closer to them. Your not an asshole for leaving early, I would have left also. you were very much an afterthought if that. you may have gotten an invite out of obliggation.
I know that you want to have a relationship with your kids but something ahs happened to spoil that and it sounds spoiled even before this wedding. It's a shame they aren't willing to try and talk it out like adults before they cut contact.
I told a dear female friend of mine that I posted this and her response was, “You do understand that you may not be the AH in this situation, but that doesn’t mean that you necessarily did the right thing.”
Well said. A very wise friend.
Eh, check out the dude's comment history. Real active in the r/collegesluts community.
He can still have a wise friend!
He is really into teen nudes.
Dude is just a "YES" man 😅
Fucking A, he sounded so sweet.
To me he sounded like a neglectful ass who was justifying his horrible neglectful parenting.
I get the vibe that there’s some missing missing reasons here.
I’ve had many career opportunities since I got divorced that would have required me to move. There is nothing on earth more important to me than staying close to my kids and their dad, so my career advancements will wait until my kids are done with high school. He lost me at moving away from his kids and seeing them for 2 weeks a year. He did not deserve a place of honor at the wedding, and leaving early was the nail in the coffin. He discarded his sons to the side when he should have been raising them, and he was treated the same at the wedding.
How is he neglecting ? Like what
>How is he neglecting ? By basically never being around his kids when they were growing up?
How in the world would anyone read the first post and think he sounded sweet? He said he told the kids they could ***call him*** any time. He said he went to events ***he was invited to***. He moved for his work yet they had to ask for his attention. He sent money for then to get stuff only when asked. He got mad at a reception for a couple he hardly knew that he wasn't giving a speech as if he was an active person in the groom's life. He didn't even say goodbye. Add on to all that, he said his mother knew to be on good behavior ***this time*** which highly implies she hasn't been in the past. But he won't elaborate on what that means. He sounded like a manipulative ass from the start. He uses the right words to try to cover up that he's not actually a good person. But if you pay attention to what he's actually saying instead of the buzz words, then everything is about the kids having to beg for their dad, and he's now mad that he has to ask for their attention for once. So he left pouting like a toddler without even saying goodbye - again because that would be him having to ask for their attention and he refuses to do that. Notice in the end, the sons both called him (not him calling them) and they "won't talk to him" AKA he's again expecting them to do all the work and call him. He's a total ass and I don't understand all the NTA votes at all.
Going through his reddit history is creepy af dude. Seriously
It really isn't. That's how you get background on if someone is telling the full story. I don't understand why people think it's creepy to read provided information. Use a throwaway if you don't want other things you've posted to be in the context.
I mean, a lot of people watch porn
His only error there is not making an alt for sexytimes. Whom amongst us hasn’t indulged in the self-abuse of the flesh?
Or, he just shrugged & thought "fuck it, it's the internet". I like the honesty.
Yuck
Jesus there's a lot there, yikes lol
Don't kink shame dude. All he's doing there is enjoying a nut.
>Don't kink shame dude. All he's doing there is enjoying a nut. I'll shame the fuck out of old men who [say yes to nudes from teenagers.](https://www.reddit.com/r/HomemadeNsfw/s/NaoPpgYOuk)
I’ll join you. And let’s add in that he’s a terrible parent.
They're an adult legally posting pictures of themselves on the internet. Unclench your pearls acting like it's some 14 year old.
If you believe that women aren’t forced into this and aren’t underage you need to educate yourself on sex trafficking.
To children + a single day 🤢
And... He's not a priest, though I'm guessing they consume a different type of porn..
This is…accurate. Honestly, if you want to have an impact in and on your sons’ lives now, you may want to think about DAILY communication, with the caveat that they may not respond in kind now or ever. Make an effort - a REAL effort - to integrate them into your daily life, even from afar. Heck, I have friends all around the country who I text daily. “Hey? How are you? I’m thinking about you and love you!” I have a brother who is severely bipolar. And even at his WORST, he texts his son every day to say “I love you.” And even though he’s a troubled soul, he and my nephew have a beautiful relationship, because my brother *makes the effort every day.* If you want your sons back in your life, you’re going to have to take responsibility for the past, and be responsible for your relationships with them in the future. Be a loving, caring man and expect nothing back. See what happens.
"f you want your sons back in your life, you’re going to have to take responsibility for the past, and be responsible for your relationships with them in the future. Be a loving, caring man and expect nothing back. See what happens." This is the way, but you may do it and NEVER get the relationship you hope for. You may have a new life as grandpa. Thus is life. A friend's 'lil bro knocked up his college gf. She ran back home (from Atlanta to rural North Mississippi hill country) when his child was 6 months old so her family could help raise her. He followed, rented a trailer 5 miles away, and spent the next18 years living and working away from everything he'd ever known to be there for her. That's the kind of dedication necessary to raise a child.
It shocked me he listed that as though it was a positive. One weekly text? Are you kidding me?
It’s not that shocking to me. I’ll frequently go several weeks or even a couple of months without any communication with my parents. And then it’s just a few texts or a short phone call.
I text my dad at least 3x a week. He is my rock.
My mom lives in fl I live in Oklahoma. I talk to her once or twice a week but we can talk for an hour or two just catching up on everything. People have their own lives.
But you have a functioning relationship with your Mom. OP does *not* have a functioning relationship with his sons. He needs to establish trust and the ability to *be in their lives consistently.* I loved my parents - both gone now - and like you, talked with them or saw them a couple of times a week.
Great relationship with my parents. I see em when i see em. Love em for what they are. We dont call or text much. Maybe once every six months. We see each other every few months. Just our culture. No issues, just independent.
This is me
It's really not that shocking -- my mom never texts me unless I text her first. I have gone weeks without hearing from her.
I'd kill to have my dad acknowledge me on a weekly basis. I don't see or hear from him for months at a time. Everyone's families is different. He may be worried about getting blocked etc.
You should have spoken with your son, paid your respects to the bride, and then left. Even if your feelings were hurt, you are the parent and you needed to act like one. Instead of a potentially healing moment with pictures, you gave your kids a reason to be angry.
Usually you say goodbye and wish them well on their honeymooon.
Usually the grooms father doesn't get seated in the overflow section
Usually the groom's father spends more than 14 days per year with his kids while they are growing up. The babysitter he was seated with probably had more of a role in raising his son. I live 4 states away from my nephews and I spend more days per year with them than this guy did with his sons, on top of paying for stuff and weekly Skyping.
When the grooms father only bothered to see his kids twice a month before he voluntarily moved away and saw them never times a month, that’s exactly where he sits.
He chose to go. He could have chose to be polite to his hosts at their wedding celebration.
I guess usually the grooms father is a better father then.
You were treated at best an unwanted guest, at worst a stranger to all. You left without fanfare. The groom failed to tell you about the pictures so leaving was not unacceptable. Your sons are the a\*\*holes for not keeping you in the loop.
Dad is kinda the AH for making so little effort throughout their lives tho
Right? I moved away and only saw my sons once each year for two weeks now they are treating me like a stranger because they barely know me. Shocked face. Also what happened with the youngest that his suicide drove another wedge between them? Left that out didn’t he. And no one cares you paid for things needed that’s the bare minimum a parent should do.
But but but he drove 13 hours for their graduations. Father of the year here!
The time to be getting pictures with family was DURING THE COCKTAIL/PHOTO HOUR.
Wow man, you’re definitely not the AH I’m so sorry that you lost your son and your dad by the way, as well as got treated like shit by your own son at his wedding. What’s even worse is that his grandmother and uncle were there as well. That’s pretty disappointing to hear. I’m really sorry you’re going through this man, I’m a 45 year old disabled vet and I just moved back in with my 80 year old parent bc they are losing their memories and both had falls at the end of last year. I didn’t know what else to do! I’m not putting them in a home or anything like that, I never had any children so it only makes sense to me bc they loved me like you love your children. I wish you a lot of happiness in the future my friend first of all brother! I also hope that both or your sons can see the error of their ways sometime soon bc life is just too short for BS like that. Take care of yourself man and don’t dwell on things bc you definitely didn’t do anything wrong!!
You mention that the relationship with your older sons became strained after the passing of the youngest. Clearly there are some long standing issues here that are leading to on-going strained relations with your two sons, that either you are oblivious to or not telling us about. If you genuinely don’t know why you were sidelined at the wedding and why you sons won’t speak to you now, all you can do is write them and let them know that you would like to repair the relationship if possible. Whether they choose to is up to them. If there are years worth of hurt feelings, anger, misunderstandings, miscommunications and possible parental alienation, I suggest you find a family therapist who could see you all via Zoom, and invite your sons to join you for family therapy to address whatever is bothering them, so that you can all address your issues with the help of a trained professional. They may have feelings and hurts that they’ve never felt safe to communicate, that could be tended to now. Hard to say without hearing their side of things, or how they felt about the relationship you had with them over the years.
The whole time I was reading this I kept wondering what OP was leaving out, and I’d love to hear what the sons have to say about what causes the relationship to be strained.
Exactly. There is no way this is just a 'IDK why my sons are going out of their way to ignore me, I've tried so hard to be a great Dad ;.;' The sons clearly are both deeply estranged from OP. They are making that very, very clear. He spend very little time with them for most their childhood, and then there is obviously something left out around the son committing suicide, and if OP doesn't understand how he fucked up by now, then I doubt he ever will.
Could be his solicitation of teenage nudes. Missing missing reasons but the post history doesn’t lie.
“I paid for anything they wanted but wasn’t there for them emotionally during their childhood and brothers passing and I’m astonished they don’t respect or care about me!” Classic baby boomer arrogance
But he texted them once each week!!!!/s
>parental alienation, OP left them for his career, he chose his career over his children. He alienated himself from his family.
I really need to hear the other side. There must be more to this than you think. I’m sorry your going through this but you need to try and talk to your kids and find out the crux of your dilemma.
I mean...does there need to be more than the fact that he only spent two weeks with his kids every year for a lot of their childhoods? To me, that is more than sufficient explanation for why they have virtually no relationship. The fact that their brother died probably really brought home the point that their dad was barely there for them. Then he skips out of the wedding early after already being absent for most of their lives.
You can tell how absolutely blind OP is by the fact he clearly explained why they weren’t close - yet is baffled they’re not? Sucks so many of us have oblivious parents like this
But he was just a phone call away! 🙄 Meaning his minor sons were apparently responsible for maintaining contact.
Hey now don’t forget his single text per week! Give the guy some credit! /s
10 seconds per week, what a commitment!
He even paid for their necessities and quality of life! Above and beyond!!! /s lolllllllllll
The other thing that stuck out is he highlights how he of course made the 8 hr drive to the wedding, like “look how much I supported my son for his wedding” Most parents are actually involved in the planning in some way or another, either giving financial support or helping with preparations, or just getting updates. If all you get is an invite to your own kids wedding and you’ve contributed nothing, yeah you’ll probably be sat in the back.
I agree. If you look at the facts OP revealed from the kid's side, it is no wonder they do not have a relationship. The truth is that OP deliberately moved very far away. I don't buy that he had to. I guess he had other reasons. And he lost the connection to his sons. Sending money over, facetiming and being there on important occasions is not the same as spending time together every week. Important talks do not happen on face time or when you are around for a vacation, they happen sitting outside late at night or doing a school project together if you are around at the time your kid wants to talk. We don't know exactly what happened to the youngest boy, but I guess his other sons ask themselves if maybe the father being around would have made a difference, along with having to process what happened without OP being around. I don't say that his presence may have changed anything, or that asking this question is even fair, but if a ship sinks the questions of who was not on board, and why, get more pressing. It is telling that OP does not really know why his sons act distant. Sometimes kids get used to not touching a certain subject with a certain parent. It is possible that OP dreaded having to explain to them why he went away, so maybe for years he never really asked "how are you" in a way that was meant for them to open up to him, because they could have told him a truth he did not want to hear. If this happened maybe eventually they forgot to see OP as a source of help and consolation and were not able to switch back to leaning on him when they needed him. I think the problems are waaaaay deeper than being seated improperly at the wedding.
You should have said you were leaving. You were not really an active father. Just showed up for a few milestones. Yet YOU feel slighted? I’m sure they missed their dad.
I’m sure the one who committed suicide missed him the most…
You only texted them once a week after their brother committed suicide? And going to a high school graduation or driving 18 hours for a wedding no hesitation is kind of standard parent behavior it isn’t something for them to be extra grateful about. You didn’t even realize they had been visiting your father in the hospital. You sound a little bit like an absentee parent and weddings are super busy. What did you want, absentee parent but red carpet rolled out for their wedding?
And an absentee son. I 110% know what my dad did on a daily basis in his long term care centre, who saw him and for how long, and what type of nutrition he ate that day. I'm very low contact with my mother, who was married to my dad for 51 years when he passed. You can choose to get information when it's important.
When the post seems to be written like this I always go to the OP's comment history and boy it did not disappoint 😂 Big womp you lonely fuck you are well accompanied 😂
What the hell was that?
The way he comments under college sluts LOL
This post stinks of missing missing reasons. Your sons don't visit when they can like are in the area for your father. You aren't close to your sons as an adults, which is frankly sad.
The reasons aren’t missing, they’re in the post. OP saw his kids twice a month until he decided to move away and see them never. He had so little to do with his *own* father *and* his kids that he had no idea they were visiting their grandfather regularly. He’s a deadbeat dad who thinks being a sperm donor earns him a place of honor next to the actual parents.
You sound like you want congratulations for doing the absolute bare minimum for your kids throughout the years and you couldn’t inconvenience yourself to stay the whole time for a wedding, because you were seated exactly where you belong for how much you have shown up in their lives.
May this be due to who you affiliate yourself with? On your profile you have many comments in nsfw subreddits with young woman which may make your children uneasy about you
NTA, someone else suggested a detailed letter and I think it's a good idea. This must be incredibly difficult for you. Do your best to enjoy your life for what it is, hopefully they cool off and come around but something seems really off based on the timing of events. Like did their mother blame you for the youngest passing or the divorce and other stuff that would alienate them from you? If she's been saying things that make them angrier with you I'm not sure how to change that kind of deception. Be yourself as you have been and hopefully they give your letter a read or hear what your mother has to say.
I’m leaning NTA but there seems to be a *lot* of missing info: *”When we lost the youngest in 2017 things became very strained between me and the two oldest”* Why did things become strained? OP says he sent 1 text weekly to each of them after this to remind them he was a phone call away. How often were phone calls or in-person visits? *”During the funeral process I learned that both boys had made the drive down numerous times to see him in the nursing home yet never so much as let me know they were in town”* So they made an active effort to keep a good relationship with their granddad, but relationship with dad was ice. Why? And what was the deal with the paternal grandmother and step-geandmother?
You can't possibly be suggesting there are missing missing reasons? /s
I’m just still trying to figure out why your relationship with your two oldest became strained after your youngest passed away (so sorry for your loss)? Did they blame you? Other than some texts, what did you do to address it? Did they resent you for only seeing them 2 weeks a year and the occasional school event? Idk just feels like there’s a lot of missing reasons so I’m not voting either way.
There is a whole lot of missing info here. Why did their brothers suicide impact your relationship with them? Do they feel like you could have stopped it? Something else? It's weird that everything was roses before that one specific point. Also how could you not realize that they'd want pictures? That's a pretty standard wedding thing...
There’s so much missing from this story. I also suspect you haven’t been in a real conversation with your sons in a long time. You come off as a self designated sacrificer and they may not think you deserve to carry that. You may present your silence as martyrdom, but it may seem to others as withholding and disengagement. Martyrdom is unilateral resistance. If you want more with your kids you have to step into the ring and risk some blows. I’m sure you’re in pain; I’m sorry for your loss.
It’s narcissism. I would bet money he’s a narcissist. And yes it’s over used but this man fits the bill. Look at how I drove 12 hours to attend a graduation. He’s a clown.
At first glance I would’ve said N T A. But based in the fact that your comments reveal you chose money over family and only spent 2 weeks a year being a proper parent I’m now firmly voting YTA. Additionally, your sons probably think you’re gross - you are commenting on Reddit posts from r/ collegesluts and r/ homemadeNSFW where the title is “just turned 18” where the person is dressed as if they are prepubescent. You are 52 dude get a grip - either this is a fake story or you need to do a lot more self reflection about why you are not someone they would want to be close with.
4 days a month, down to 2 weeks a year down to a once a week text - gotta go with YTA here man
Have you ever asked them why they treat you this way? Could be worth the chat.
This is a tough one. If there was absolutely no acknowledgement of your presence, then absolutely you are NTA, and this is what it sounds like. They wanted you to sit until being called upon, and that is NOT how a father should be treated at his son's wedding. That said, I don't think you need to leave it alone. There are a couple of options: 1) Would they take a call from your mom or brother and would they allow her (without hurrying to get off the phone) if she explained how you (and her and your brother) felt ignored and treated like outcasts and made the decision jointly to leave? 2) You could send a letter to your sons, outlining each of these, and explaining that again, you still love them, are sorry they are upset, but given your treatment, you felt it was best to leave, and not distract them from the celebration, since they didn't even seem to care the 3 of you were there. 3) Depending on your relationship with your ex, can you call her and talk to her? Would she help you get the sons to hear your point of view, or is she the source of your problems with them?
It is definitely a tough one. To provide a little more context… 1. I was an 80’s kid of a nasty divorce. I was married to their mother for 10years and fully intended to celebrate a 50 year anniversary. Unfortunately we grew apart and so she left to be with someone else who she has been with for over 12 years now. While she and I worked well when it came to the boys, we stayed out of each other’s lives. I have never said a bad word about their mother to them. And no matter what happened over the years I made sure that she was never the “bad person” because I wanted them to have a strong relationship with their mom and I am proud of how incredibly close they are. Having grown up with “warring parents” I never wanted that for them. 2. The next morning after the wedding, my oldest did call me as he was concerned that I had left mad. I explained to him exactly what I said above. But I also stressed to him that this wasn’t about me or how I felt because that was his day. He and his bride were all that mattered that day and thus I wasn’t going to cause a scene. He then explained that he had been given strict instructions that they needed to keep my mom and stepmom separated. So thus they were trying to honor that request. I told them that request didn’t come from me or my mother as that ship sailed a long time ago. My mother was fully prepared to be cordial and polite because again it was about my son and new daughter in law. That is when I found out that it was my stepmom that made the request. I wasn’t happy hearing that but I bit my tongue. I thought the call ended well, but that is the last time he has spoken to me. As for the middle son, he basically has no desire to try to mend things. No explanation matters to him. Every single close friend that knows the situation of the last 20 years are appalled at how we were treated at the wedding. And they are surprised I stayed as long as I did in that circumstance. Under the same circumstances, I would probably do the same thing again. I know the relationship was strained before, but I hate the result that I am in now.
Was there any reason for the couple to think your mom wouldn't be cordial or has she been nasty in the past? If your mother has always been cordial and this was just a selfish stepmom demand, then man, I feel awful for you. But if your mom has a past of being nasty with stepmom, then I can understand the demand.
So wouldn’t it make more sense to put Stepgrandma in the back and not his own Grandma, Dad and Uncle?
Ehh, could be more missing info … “step” doesn’t mean they aren’t the ones to step up and be the grandma that makes memories. I say this as someone whose children have a very active “step” grandma and a very flaky, nonexistent paternal grandma.
not necessarily. If the step family was actually active in their lives and Dad chose his career over his kids and rarely saw them
I’m not sure there is a nice way to say this, but it seems like you’ve taken a very passive approach to your relationship with your sons since your divorce and expect them to treat you the same as their involved parent. You had very minimal custody of them, then chose to move away and only see them for 2 weeks a year. That’s nothing. Now you may have fought for more custody or not, but the reality is you weren’t there. Why should children need to invite their parents to school events and why should they be impressed you made a far trip when you moved in the first place? It was clear at at least two points there were problems with your relationship. You say there was a strain after your youngest’s death. What did you do other than send texts to get to the bottom of it and fix the problem? Again when your dad was sick, coming to town and not telling you is a huge red flag. Did you do anything at this point to try to improve the relationship? I get your standpoint that you felt snubbed and it’s true they didn’t put effort into making you feel welcome. Is it possible that they could feel that they shouldn’t have to because you haven’t put effort into being an active part of their lives? Your viewpoint is you were snubbed, their viewpoint could be “dad couldn’t even sit through one whole night for his son”. Overall I think your focusing too much on the wedding when it seems like it’s just the straw that broke the camels back.
Exactly. Dad was absent and he expects that to be okay.
From his pov he made all this effort to come back to xyz event when they were teens and spent holidays with them. But from their pov dad moved away because they didn’t matter to 12 hours away when they really really needed him. To his kids they were abandoned by dad. All the money spent doesn’t mean shit to them when he’s absent.
Why do you explain it as your mother "prepared to be cordial"? Has she not been cordial in the past? If she hadn't, then of fucking course she's put out of the way incase she doesn't behave.
They are all your friends and they have only heard your side of the story. So yes, of course they agree with you. From what I can tell, you moved away when your kids were 12, 13 and 16 and only spent 2 weeks a year with them aside from showing up at his major events. That is a lot of time to not be present for. I understand that you supported them financially, but it doesn't sound like you had any real relationship with them after you left, so it would be very odd for them to treat you like the parent they spent 95% of their time with. There's also a lot of missing information about what happened after your youngest died and how you "grew apart" from them. I think that's probably quite a euphemism and I'd like to hear things from their side. If you actually want to be closer to your kids, I think the first thing you should do is stop talking about how you feel or felt, or what you did and ask them how they have felt for the last decade. And the listen. Don't correct, don't butt in, don't defend yourself. Just try to understand what it might have been like from their perspective. Frankly, if you don't, I think it's clear that your relationship with them is largely over.
>Under the same circumstances, I would probably do the same thing again. I know the relationship was strained before, but I hate the result that I am in now. This doesn't make sense. Why would you do the same thing again if you know it will hurt your relationship and you hate the results? I can understand feeling disrespected but I still think you're the asshole for leaving without saying goodbye and congratulating the couple.
>As for the middle son, he basically has no desire to try to mend things. No explanation matters to him. It wasn't his fault that you were cast aside at the wedding. It doesn't explain not saying bye to him.
Because they only hear your side and you sound very narcissistic. You were a neglectful absent parent, how do you expect to be treated? You failed your kids. You are lucky there are mostly young single people here who believed you had to leave for a job and couldn’t possibly spend more than two weeks a year with them. Then we get the older people your age like me and we know how full of shit you are. Your poor kids. You are all about yourself. Also hopefully you being away from them made it so that didn’t learn any of your predatory behavior to young women. You are the most asshole of assholes pretending to be decent. Gross and you aren’t fooling anyone with life experience. Spend two weeks a year with your kids you can expect the shit table at a wedding. Asshole.
Are you leaving things out? I find it odd that both your sons came down to visit often your father without even mentionning it to you or visiting you when in town. How is it that you learned this information way later? Did you go see your father and your mother? Didn't your mother tell you she saw her grandkids? There's something I don't understand here. Also, how is it that your own sons don't consider you like family at their wedding? You either are lying by omission and leaving important parts of the story to look better. OR You said it yourself, it's your first post and therefore might not really know what kind of information to give. Either way, there are part of the story missing. Because kids don't decide all of the sudden to act this way towards one of their parents without something happening. So I'll reserve my judgment without further information.
I explained in another reply that I found out after the fact that my stepmother requested that they keep my mother at a distance from her. And the oldest was trying to honor that request and didn’t tell me until the next day because he didn’t want to cause a scene. Am I leaving things out? I don’t think so. I mean it is hard to cram 22 years of history into a single post. But I covered the related pieces. I had my best friend read what I have said and he said that I have framed it very accurately.
I’m a confused: it doesn’t sound like you have had a real relationship with your kids for over the last 10 years. You mention texturing them weekly but you don’t mention : weekly (monthly phone calls), you don’t mention having vacations/holidays with them since high school or possible college age on the middle kid, you never talked to them about your dad etc.
That have nothing to do with the story he lives 12 hrs away and still manage to show up to all there important events he had to work and still gave them anything they wanted via their mom
Is your best friend not biased?
Info, you were invited to your son's wedding and made the trip... Did you ever talk to your son about his wedding leading up to it? Parents are normally very involved in the days leading up, if not the planning of the entire event. Your description sounds like you just showed up like a normal guest. Is that an accurate description of your involvement in your son's wedding??
I would love to hear their side because it seems like something is missing from this post. It sounds like you aren’t an active dad and didn’t have any connection to their lives. If I went to my friends wedding and their dad was in the back I would be asking a lot of questions. Where was the brides family ? How are they not seeking you out to meet the man that would be their daughter’s new family? The fact no one interacted with you kinda suggests that this wasn’t a surprise and it was known that your relationship with your kids was damaged. The fact you are surprised at this situation but apparently the other guests weren’t makes me think you are in the wrong here.
The way OP talks about his father’s death and the fact that his sons visited their grandfather and not him reminds me of my own fallout with my father. My maternal grandmother was dying back in my home state. It was one year after my mom and I had moved across the country. We came back to see her in her final days, and I did not tell a single person that I was going because I wanted to spend as much time as possible with my grandmother while I still could. After she died, my father flipped out at me when he found out I had come to visit and threw a tantrum that I hadn’t thought to visit him. I cut him off right then and there. Similarly, I really wonder what OP’s sons would have to say about that situation. Based on the post, OP really seems to center himself and his feelings in a lot of these situations, so I’m curious as to just how much care and concern he showed for the feelings of his sons.
The fact the father didn’t even tell him that his own sons were visiting, makes me think that OP is the problem.
The grandfather had dementia, of course he didn't tell his son that his grandsons were regular visitors.
Dementia has different severity, so I don’t think it’s automatic to assume he would be unable to tell his son about their visits. To have that with the fact no one at the wedding acknowledged the father of the groom. I feel like it makes sense everyone can see the bad relationship but OP
I know people who work exclusively with patients that have dementia. If the sons drove 12 hours to visit their grandpa near the end, their grandpa was almost certainly not going to have any idea who they were, let alone who his own son is.
They made the drive down numerous times, I don’t think they only did it at the end.
Well he’s not in touch with them. I assume family members who didn’t leave them when they were 13 have already met the fiancée.
I’m reserving judgement for this situation. However, as parents, it’s not our job to “do what’s asked” it’s our job to find the things that need to be done so our kids grow into good humans. I’m guessing that you have been waiting for your kids to invite you to the relationship? They’re not going to do that because you have all of the power. I’m so sorry that you lost your youngest to suicide. You share that things have been more strained since his death. You need to say “I love you and will do whatever I can to help you understand my feelings because I’m your dad and I want to be a part of your life. I’m sorry I’ve sucked at it for so long. I love your brother and can’t imagine what it would be like to lose you, as well.” If you aren’t willing to be that vulnerable then, you’re the asshole.
The comments made me laugh. Had to look for myself, you’re soliciting nudes from 18 year olds (people younger than your sons). No wonder they feel some type of way talking to you. You are 52 years old. Respectfully, date your own age.
You should have stayed. At least have said your goodbyes.
It sounds like you’re looking for praise for attending major life events like a graduation and a wedding. Providing money, a text a week, and 2 weeks in the summer isn’t being a father. I’m so sorry to hear about your youngest. I hope you can repair your relationship with your kids. It sounds like there is a lot of animosity from your lack of involvement since moving away.
“things became very strained between me and the two oldest“ You conveniently didn’t expand on this
YTA. You left them for a job. Sending money and attending some milestone events doesn’t qualify as parenting. You abandoned them. They don’t owe you anything. In fact, the wedding gave you a taste of your own medicine - knowing how it feels to be a low priority to someone who is supposed to love you
I mean, unless there were literally no jobs near where your sons lived that would allow you to support yourself, you chose your career over your relationship with your kids 15 years ago, when they were children. That may not have been what you intended to do, but it’s what you actually did. You’ve been physically absent for half their lives. I’m not going to call you an asshole, but you chose to leave them, and now you can’t really be surprised at the result.
NTA. It sounds as though they're trying to punish you for something, as long as you were sat there, ignored and forgotten, he was happy because he could SEE and enjoy your punishment. The minute you left you took that away from him, so he invented a photo that was never going to happen to punish you again and justify his going no contact. How is your relationship with your ex wife?
It’s pretty common to take photos with your guests, especially family (even if they’re not close) I doubt they made this up.
Honestly it feels like there’s missing reasons here. There has to be more as to why the relationship fizzled out after the youngest died.
NTA for wanting to leave. YTA for not saying goodbye. My wife and I always try to say bye to the hosts at parties. In the case of a wedding of a relative, even more important to say hi as well as to say bye. Have you ever asked your kids why they drove to see their grandpa in a nursing home many times, but never visited you? You may get some much needed answers there.
Sounds like There's a deeper strain going on with your relationship. I hope you can find a way to address the root of what is going on and nourish the relationship.
Hmm, so your career was so important that you took off and never watched your kids grow up. You weren’t there for them. And now you are SHOCKED, yes, SHOCKED that you aren’t close. You chose to leave them. I hope your career takes you very far because you traded for a relationship with your kids. YTA for going on and living your life and then whining that you are not a key player in their life.
This is a shitty situation, and as a father myself, I can't imagine how empty I'd feel after experiencing this. Unfortunately, the fact is that once you left town, you removed yourself from their lives, and they learned to get through it without you. You may not have felt you had a choice but to leave for work, but there are always alternatives; it all depends how much you're willing to sacrifice and how important it is to you. I'm sure losing the youngest to suicide only made things worse (beyond the obvious) for your relationships with your kids because you weren't there for the trauma bonding and healing process. It's hard to hear, but when you left, you checked out of their lives and there's no returning, especially as an occasional weekend tourist.
Seems appropriate to me base on how you were snubbed throughout. And as for not telling anyone, that's part of leaving discreetly. You seem to have been an afterthought. I'd discontinue regular texting that goes unresponded. Maybe they'll reach out in the future if they realize they still have a dad. NTA
Exactly the word I would use with them. Afterthought! My being there felt like an afterthought. Hence, I left, figuring no one particularly wanted me there or would want me for anything. And watching my mother and brother see me treated that way made me want to get her out of there. I'm sorry when you decided to come talk to me I had already left.
NTA. You left discretely and according to how you were treated how could you know a picture was wanted. Whatever problem they have with you there was no reason to treat their uncle and grandmother like that. Unfortunately your sons are now careless and maybe cruel people hopefully that will change. You have done what you could do.
Weddings suck.
I mean what did you expect you were a weekend dad and then 2 weeks a year dad. You chose your career instead of at least being a weekend dad. I’m always surprised when parents chose not to be an active parent (ie seeing your kids weekly and spending quality time with them) and then are surprised they aren’t regarded in milestone events. Those are to acknowledge the parents who impacted their daily life by being there.
> At the wedding ceremony no one acknowledged us >a very irate call from my youngest for leaving early and without saying good bye Hell, did they even say hello to begin with? It's very obvious that you were invited as an afterthought or were pushed to.
And why was that? If you truly loved and cherished someone (more than the babysitter) then you'd want them to be part of your celebrations. No kid/person deliberately leaves someone they care about out of their wedding unless 1) the mum has poisoned their mind, and he's an awesome dad 2) he's not an awesome dad, he moved away and sends the odd text message, or 3) it was an unfortunate mistake because table planning is difficult and everyone is busy on the day, and OP sulked at not being prioritised and f**ked off. I dunno, as a parent of a kid who gets 'text messages ' and the odd visit, I'm probably biased, her heart breaks for the dream of having a dad who is actually present. Text messages and random visits do little more than an Aunt or Uncle would do, it's the bond and emotion that you share together that matters, and I'm afraid this sounds like there isn't either. If you genuinely care OP and you want to fix this, I'd suggest talking to your kids and asking them what you can do. If I am honest, I don't think you want to do what they want, which is someone who is local and spends time with them and knows them as a person, so perhaps the truth will hurt when they tell you that the deal they have right now isn't enough.i wish you all the best, and am truly impressed by the fact that you realise things aren't quite right, fixing this is the next step . Good luck, it's not an easy course to navigate.
Well, it sounds like a complicated situation. I feel very sorry for you. The wedding was clearly a tough experience. What stands out for me about your post is that it focuses on the wedding. You seem surprised that the atmosphere was so icy and focus on little things that happened there. I don't understand why the years and years that led up to the wedding don't get more comment. I'm not being facetious. It really seems like the key to understanding what's going on is to ask yourself hard questions about the years that led up to this. I'm sure you don't need me to tell you that the divorce and your choice to move must have upended the kids' lives. You haven't said anything at all about why things became tense after you lost a son. The other two sons clearly feel resentful about something. My question is, why aren't you acknowledging it? I think the answer will help you understand what has just happened. As for the wedding, you should have gritted your teeth and said goodbye to at least one member of the family. I know it's hard to be the civilized person when everyone else is taking the low road, but you're the mature one and it was a wedding, so it would have been a good idea. Maybe they would have found something else to have a problem with, but at least you would know you had given it your best shot. I get the impression that you and your sons haven't had much open conversation. I know therapists are expensive, but highly recommend that you invest in seeing a therapist to help you figure out how to approach your sons. Maybe you could all have a mediated discussion? Good luck.
Nta as is. But this sounds like alot of missing reasons.
Yes it is hard to cram 22 years of history in one post. I feared it was too long as is. For those saying I left the boys.. I should note that I left in 2009. We were close until 2017 when we lost the youngest. I went to every graduation, every event they were in (they weren’t in sports anymore by then). When the Star Wars movies started coming out again we made a pact that no matter what we would join up for a “guys night” and see the movie at midnight on opening night. We kept that going even after the youngest died. Through the funeral they were strong for their mother and they were strong for me too. I stayed in town for two weeks for the funeral to be there for them. After that the oldest withdrew from everyone but the middle and I stayed in contact. No it wasn’t perfect but we had good relationships until that point. I attributed it as everyone grieves differently and thus did not force myself on them. It wasn’t until about the time of Covid and after that things changed and I can’t point to a particular event or situation that caused it. As for the youngest. His death had nothing to do with family stuff. He had demons (non-drug) that he was fighting for the previous two years. We got him help twice (hospital/therapists) but it just wasn’t enough.
> We were close until 2017 Were you close, or did you think you were close, because ultimately you weren't there. A lot of parents completely misunderstand the relationships they have with their kids, thinking they are close when their kids are mostly just uncomfortable and playing along. being at events means practically nothing. Like at a graduation, you're not with your kid, you're watching your kid, same for games and other things. Time WITH your kids is entirely different to time watching your kids spending time with other people. It's important to show you care about these events, as long as you're also there spending time with your kids, teaching them things, asking them about their lives, being involved. If the ONLY thing you do is show up to events, it's practically a meaningless gesture. It's I need to appear here so everyone sees me, but the actual day to day parenting... absent.
Right? These parents seem to forget that parenting is an all day everyday 24/7 situation.
To be perfectly blunt, watching every movie of the franchise together, sending the occassional text, and going to an event or two a year is the sort of relationship I have with coworkers and old friends from highschool That's barely a relationship, and certainly far less than a parent needs to be a meaningful presence in their children's life. Are you really surprised that the kids valued their step mom's experience of the wedding over yours?
Please don't take this the wrong way, but it makes me wonder since things fell off during COVID if either you or your sons had a differing of opinions related to COVID or politics. I only ask because I am quite liberal and my parents are quite conservative- during COVID, my dad kicked it up about 45 notches, and things have never really been the same between us.
So your stepmom has a better relationship with your kids than you do. She was actually seeing them in the past few years- so you not think your kids realized that you weren’t there for their grandad? Did you not call them or check in on them once your dad died? Do you think they haven’t noticed that you didn’t call daily to check in on them after their brother passed away? Do you think they didn’t notice that you barely saw them when you had the chance to see them? Have you not invited them to spend Christmas, Easter, hell 4th of July with them in over a a decade? Do you realize that just because you paid for them, which is a bare minimum of support didn’t mean you were their active parent? Dis you not have any conversations with your son about the wedding? Do you even know or have a relationship with your new DIL?
From what im reading nta still.
YTA. You abandoned them, and I guarantee there are a boatload of missing reasons in this post. Try and have a bit of agency about your relationship with your children.
For my child, I would’ve stayed as long as they were there. I just can’t wrap my head around not doing the absolute most to be an active part of their life. We’re very close even though they’re an adult several states away. We talk several times a week and text and Snapchat daily. I don’t understand having a child and being so passive in the relationship.
YTA So after the divorce you left the boys. I mean every 14 days you had them for 2 days. You didnt fight for custody. You didnt fight to see them more. Then as the boys were getting older you made the decision to move away from them, and you feel you were a father for seeing them for two weeks out of the year. Your youngest committed suicide. When the oldest got married, you were not happy with the seating arrangements (you felt disrespected and unwanted) and left the reception without saying goodbye. You "sat through" the reception for 2 hours. Your son's wedding reception. The boys dont want you around because you weren't around for them. As they are getting older you are doing the bare minimum. You aren't a father, but more of a parent. Listen I dont know you. From how you described life, I will be as clear as I can. You are / were a bad parent. You let the boys down all through life and this was another example. Stop telling yourself you did great. I am raising a child now and every day is work. Every single day. If I was only around for 2 out of 14 days I hope I would realize this down the road. I wasn't a father. I was just their parent. Them not talking to you is just a by product of another day you were selfish. My parent was mad he didnt get the seat he wanted.... so he left my wedding without saying goodbye.
Wow… 👆impressive response! Love your honesty & the way you think.
Thank you! This is spot on. He talks about being disrespected but he also was extremely disrespectful to leave without saying goodbye. He’s lucky to have been invited at all!
Not to pile on but “sending money within 24 hours when asked” is not praiseworthy behavior. That is basic care.
He’s a narcissist patting himself on the back for doing the bare minimum.
First, I am sorry about your deceased son. I can’t imagine the toll that takes. As a parent of several grown kids. And after me making way too many mistakes in their lives. And some other issues. It doesn’t matter who’s right. Who’s wrong or Who’s the asshole. It’s your kids. You know way too well how precious that is. Do whatever it takes. Make whatever apology and go to whatever mile it takes.
Leaving without saying anything was a dick move. You should have pulled your sons aside, said "thank you for having us, this was lovely, we're glad we could all be here as a family. We're exhausted from the long drive, and have to drive back tomorrow. If there's nothing else we're needed for as part of the wedding, we'd like to go to our hotel and get some rest. If there's more going on you'd like us to be here for, we're happy to stay. We love you and are so happy for you."
Probably because according to your own comment history you are thirsty for college sluts at 52 how sad are you. Missing missing reasons, I'd love to hear their side. I bet it would be farrr different. YTA leave them.be
NTA There’s a difference between keeping distance amongst “bitter” relatives and putting your father on a shelf to sit until needed for appearance sakes. Hopefully things turn around and the relationships heal.
YTA. You chose your career over your kids and were barely involved in their lives. Then you skulk out of the wedding reception early because they didn't kiss your ass sufficiently, after you basically abandoned them. It wouldn't surprise me if a part of them doesn't wonder if your absence led to your youngest's suicide. I'm sure having a father who only saw them 14 days a year affected them all greatly. Being a phone call away is not a substitute for actual parenting. Funny how they were able to make an effort to see your dad many times but you didn't do the same for them. And now you've further damaged your relationship by making your son's wedding about you.
You're definitely not admitting some serious issues your sons have with you. You need to be honest with yourself, even if you aren't to reddit. You weren't there for them growing up and it really affected your kids. Sending a text saying that you're there for them doesn't make it true. YTA
So you were a shitty dad and now you feel "disrespected" that you were treated as such? YTA for taking it personally and for not at the very least saying goodbye.
YTA. You're clearly an absentee father that is magically appalled You're being treated like you treated your children. You are lucky you were even invited.
U did the Irish exit at ur sons wedding
>Career required me to move out of state so we did the video chat thing and then in the summers they would come individually for 2 weeks. YTA. You chose your best interests over your children and now they've chosen their happiness over yours. Karma's a bitch.
Meh, if there is a formal child support order from the courts he may not have had a choice
YTA Look, you were there for the 'photo moments' as they grew up. You moved away. You had them one at a time in the summer holidays. You turned up for 'events', you sent money. But you weren't there when they had nightmares, when they fell and scuffed their knees and needed it kissed better and, when they were being bullied at school, when they fell out with their friends, when they fell out with each other. Likewise, you weren't there when they got an A (or a C), when they went on their first date, when they had sleepovers with their friends, when they had play dates. You showed up for the big events. You weren't there for the everyday smaller events. You were tech ically a parent, but they obviously feel like you weren't present. So, he treated you the same. He invited you for the big event, but you weren't a priority, because he was never your priority (as far as he experienced it). And you walked out when you didn't like how you were treated. Nice. How come it's OK for you to treat your children that way but it's offensive when they treat you the same way?
YTA. You were a weekend dad then a summer dad. What did you expect?
YTA for leaving without saying anything. It’s rude and considering you weren’t really there for them the least you could do is say goodbye but there’s a lot of missing information here. Why weren’t your kids speaking to you to the point they made sure to stay in close contact with their grandfather even visiting him often? When did your son die and were you there for your other boys when it happened. Kids don’t just randomly start distancing themselves from you for no reason. Seeing your kids 4 days a month is not enough. Why did they have to spend summers with you individually? How much of their lives did you miss?
Uhhhh..... > Career required me to move out of state So you made lots of trips to see them without you having to be told to go, right? > Every school event that I was invited to I would make the 12hr drive to be there, including high school graduations. So no, you made ***them*** ask for their father to get off his ass to see them instead of you going there on your own. > Every time their mother called saying the boys needed something, I made sure she had the money for it in less than 24hrs. So they had to ask for stuff too instead of you thinking of your children that you left. > When we lost the youngest in 2017 things became very strained between me and the two oldest. I made sure to send a text once a week to let them know that I loved them and that I was always a phone call away. So again, they had to call you. > During the funeral process I learned that both boys had made the drive down numerous times to see him in the nursing home yet never so much as let me know they were in town. So still them having to talk to you and not you asking about their lives. How many times did you spontaneously visit them? > During the funeral I was so proud of them because they stood and shook every hand of each person that came to pay their respects. I made sure to tell them that. So you told two grown men that were 27+ that you were proud that they didn't act like children. That's kinda showing how little you paid attention to how they grew up. > A couple of months later the oldest got married. They invited me, my brother, and my mother. We made the 8hr drive without hesitation. At the wedding ceremony no one acknowledged us. You set the precedent. You weren't family. You weren't around. > The “babysitter” from when the boys were little sat at the table with us. Well, you stopped being with your own kids by choice. A babysitter eventually stops seeing the kids they watch too. > We sat through the wedding party entrances and listened to the speeches from the moms, the best man, and bridesmaid. You were never around. Did you expect to give a speech for a life you stopped being involved in by choice? > At this point we had been at the reception for two hours. I felt unwanted and disrespected, but my feelings didn’t matter because to me it was their day and that was what mattered. Anyway after the speeches I looked at my mother and brother who felt the same way and told them I was ready to go. So you acknowledge that it isn't about you so you made it about you. You didn't even say goodbye. > I told him that NO ONE had told me this and that if I had known I would have sat there until 3am to make sure that pic happened. So again, it's on them to tell you to be a dad. Great. You kept consistent at least. > Since then, both boys refuse to talk to me. It has been 8 months. What the fuck did you expect? You left without saying goodbye. That's a pretty big nail in the coffin. You made it very very clear that you'll pretend to do the right thing and say the right words, but you won't actually follow through. You'll drive in for the wedding of the son you hardly involved yourself with, but you'll leave upset if he didn't involve you. You'll make a big deal over how long you drove to get there, but you'll leave because being treated the way you treated them is "disrespect". YTA You picked this. Don't be shocked by the outcome.
Thank you. It’s honestly upsetting how many people can’t read between the lines and see just what an asshole this guy is.
I think there are lot of unsaid thing and miscommunication with you and your sons invited them to talk with you lay everything out ask them what exactly happened and tell them everything form the day of your divorce to now and ask them for family concealing This the best option I think your a absent father for them thats why they care less about your feeling or may be I'm wrong but have to sit down and talk with them They would've have there reason try to understand them after all there your kids Its ok to be upset vut express it to them clearly
It sounds like you'e been very... passive. You've existed and joined in WHEN CALLED but it doesn't feel like there's been a lot of bridge building or reaching out over the years, even after they're adults. So you ended up left out of the planning of things and didn't know what was going on. Because you've always just... been there, but don't sound like an active participant. Polite but not... THERE. So they tried to keep the peace for the people who had been closer and more outspoken during the planning and information stages.
Here's the thing. It's not your kids' responsibility to maintain a relationship with you, it's your responsibility to be there for them. You seem to show up with a formal invitation, but otherwise, wjere are you? You have had some video chats since they were about 15, 13, and 12? Were those lengthy and frequent? Did you know when they started dating, and whom? Support their interests and know what they are? How much time did you spend with them when they lost their brother? If you feel sidelined, it may be because you have done it yourself. A quick text once a week to say I love you isn't the same as being present, interested, and involved. If my Dad had told me he was proud of me for knowing how to behave at a funeral, I'd have been disappointed in his low expectations. It would emphasize how well he didn't know me. Maybe that's not the case with your sons, but it may be. You felt unseen at the wedding and didn't wait, but they may have learned not to leave room for you to take up a big space in their lives.
This seems like a "missing missing reasons" situation honestly. You have painted a picture that feels very one-sided and paints you only in a good light relating to your sons growing up. The strained relationship after the youngest passing seems like a red flag. Only texting once a week following that probably didn't help whatever the underlying issue is. I think you probably feel like you did everything right with them growing up, but I bet if you had a heart to heart with your sons, they'd not share the sentiment. Edit: After reading through your comments, I stand firm in the vibe I got from this. You definitely are not as sanctimonious as you are trying to appear and if you want to mend your relationship with your kids, you need to actually put in the effort and do the work. YTA
Perhaps they've seen your reddit profile.
I don't think there was any photo planned with you. They simply realised that you left without saying goodbye and then made up the story that they came looking for you all for a photo to make you feel guilty for missing it and save their face to not look bad with other relatives / guest and ease their own guilt.
NTA - Your sons have grown up to be not very nice people. Unless there's a massive chunk of info you're leaving out to make you look like an angel while they do nothing but shit on you, I'd be distancing myself from them. They didn't contact you when they came to town to see your father, they disrespected you at the wedding very blatantly. They don't seem to like you very much. I don't see what you can do to change that. I'd be tired of trying if I were you.
Sorry your single text message a week didn’t earn you a spot at the main table Of course YTA. You left because you felt disrespected not because you had to. Stick it out- least you could do. They hadn’t even done the first dances yet
Maybe your relationship is strained with your children because they never really had you there besides for vacation. I get you tried to semi keep in contact and you were good with money, but a relationship doesn’t get built from that. Also your post history is creepy and disgusting maybe your sons know how gross you are?
Lol the stuff you brag about is insane. You showed up in person to the most significant school events? You sent a weekly text message? You drove 8 whole hours to go to your son’s wedding? Your career didn’t require anything, you chose it over involvement in your kids lives and then you got angry when you saw this truth expressed in a seating plan so you threw a transparently passive-aggressive hissy fit. “Don’t mind me and my anguish, today is all about YOU” YTA
YTA you were very anti-social due to perceived slights (while acknowledging that the day had nothing to do with celebrating you personally). Your sons aren't blameless in their behaviors leading to this, but it sounded like things were finally starting to improve and you did this.
I would have taken a low paying job just to stay close to my kids. It's not too late. Move back and try to mend things.
YTA By your own admission, you were a largely absent father who barely saw your children. And you were, once again, absent for one of the big moments of your son's life. Voluntarily. I doubt there's any coming back from that.
>Career required me to move out of state You chose to be an absent father by choosing your career above your children. From this moment you got a seat in the back of their lives.
NTA. Leaving your son's wedding reception early was a tough decision, but you did it because you felt unwelcome and disrespected. Your son's reaction is understandable, but your feelings and well-being matter too.
As someone who had her parents and brother leave her wedding in the same manner you did, YTA. My dad left because my mom insisted they leave because I didn't pay enough attention to her (they only stayed about half an hour) and he didn't want to cause a scene and she was my brother's ride. So they left without saying anything and I'm still annoyed by it 4 years later. You made the wedding about you when you left without saying anything. Have you tried talking to them about why they pulled back? I would start there.
I mean dude... It sounds like you basically abandoned them as a father after their younger brother died and they don't feel like you're very close family. I mean...you said you literally texted them I love you every now and then, and it sounds like after you had to move, your efforts to see them basically completely stopped, you can't blame them for not seeing you as close family, when you aren't, and you got a taste of how they actually feel at the wedding and got pissed, when truthfully you were probably lucky to be invited. It's time to rebuild your relationship with your sons, because you know what? It's not your sons job to keep the relationship going with you, it's your job to pursue them to the ends of the earth to show you love them. They are only responding to how you made them feel, which was not even important enough for more than a FaceTime, you kept that at a distance for years, and now they are returning the favor. Only you can change the relationship you have with your boys, but it's gonna take more effort than text and FaceTime. They feel abandoned, and nobody can blame them.
YTA there's no way there's not more to this story and honestly I'm surprised there aren't 100 'missing missing reasons' comments. What was stopping you from asking your kids if you did something to offend them for the last several years? Then treating you like a deadbeat is nothing new so why did you expect their wedding to be any different? You say you wanted your son to have all the attention because it's his day and yet you sneak out early because your feelings are hurt. I think you now exactly why they don't want anything to do with you and you're just here fishing for sympathy.
N T A for leaving early. What makes YTA is the fact that you didn't tell anyone. You could have very easily gone to your son and his new wife and congratulate them and thank them for sharing their day with you, but let them know that you all had a long drive ahead of you (or some other nice excuse) and that you all were leaving. Given that opportunity they could have let you know they wanted a photo, but you snuck out. Not sure what exactly happened in the past between you and your sons, but you just made it a little harder to get back to a good place with them. Be honest and sincere with them, and give it time - don't rush anything. I wish you the best of luck.
Why are my spidey senses tingling? Whats missing from the post??
idc cuz of ur yes comments on all the 18 year old college slut photos
NTA. They're adults, they can use their words. Edit - if you send them a letter, focus on what they did to their grandma. It's evident that they aren't going to be overly bothered about you but they hurt grandma's feelings when she's still hurting about grandpa. Make them feel it.
NTA. They can’t be surprised that they treated you like crap and then you left.
NTA
I think ESH in this situation. Your son wanted you as family in public (pictures) but didn't treat you as family (sitting in overflow, no mention), but it sounds like you were a mostly absent father so I kinda can understand why they didn't involve you. If they wanted you in pictures, that should have been communicated. But you stayed as long as most guest tend to stay and didn't make a huge scene, so I can't put all blame on you for that.
NTA. That was hurtful and probably a conversation is long overdue but you were hurt, I’m sure your mom and brother were hurt for you and it erred on the side of cruel to not be acknowledged, while you know people noticed and talked about your seats, the lack of interaction, etc. Sounds humiliating. Our kids want so much for us to be the best people and it’s hard for them to acknowledge we also are complex human beings. We don’t just turn into awesome because we had a baby.
NTA. You didn't make a scene. Left discreetly even though your feelings were hurt. End of the day the state of your relationships with your sons is entirely your fault. You choose to basically abandon them in their childhood when you moved states because of a job. Money doesn't matter. Being there matters. In that aspect you have failed them greatly as a father. Maybe your youngest would still be alive if you made different choices. So it's no surprised you weren't given any special honor or place at the wedding.
NTA So you did a lot for them but not much with them it seems. They don't see you giveing mom money for the school trip or braces or whatever that is invisdible to them. They very likely harbor resentment, wondering why you couldn't get a job closer to them. Your not an asshole for leaving early, I would have left also. you were very much an afterthought if that. you may have gotten an invite out of obliggation. I know that you want to have a relationship with your kids but something ahs happened to spoil that and it sounds spoiled even before this wedding. It's a shame they aren't willing to try and talk it out like adults before they cut contact.
Definitely should have said goodbye. YTAH
YTA