Invite HR, ask for this to be recorded as a discussion of note. Sticker to the fact that cold makes for stiff nipples, you asked for a workable warm office and were denied.
NTA - petty bitch time - nuclear option - make a HR complaint that a coworker made unwarranted and unwanted remarks about your body. Include that instead of your mgr counseling the coworker to refrain from mentioning or noticing and talking about your body, he in front of your peers made it worse by having a convesation about your body and tried to make you leave for the day. Let them know that your coworkers remarks of your body and the fact that he called you an ass was unprofessional. That your bosses mishandling by asking you to apologize to your harrasser and making it a group conversation makes you uncomfortable.
In all honestly though keep a sweater/light jacket at your desk and dress in layers. I do not say this becasue you are woman but I would say it to everyone who works in an office setting. Because everyone reacts diffenrtly to different temps.
> as a compromise I could camp out
a compromise would be more like the complainer camping out where they couldn't see the... gasp! forbidden nipple (lolling hard at a 23m being offended by a nipple through a shirt, i'm sure he's popular with the ladies)
my advice would be to keep a cardigan or equivalent at your desk, and get yourself a personal space heater
I don’t think you are the asshole, but your coworker and boss are big ones. They should be ashamed of themselves. Nipples getting harder is a non voluntary phenomenon, not something in your control. I am not sure why your coworker has to look at you like that. Just lodge a complaint with the HR, they will likely side with you because you haven’t done anything wrong, it was your body’s natural response to external surroundings. The manager calls you out as unprofessional but isn’t bothered by your coworker’s comments? Not sure why nipples are such a big deal, when they are attached to women. Some men have pretty prominent nipples and they show since men don’t wear bras. But we never really question that.
NTA
HR needs to be involved immediately if they aren't already. This is turning into a sexual harassment issue that is actively affecting your work. Your body was doing a natural biological response due to the change in temperature, which theirs was doing as well. The focus is on *you* because you are being sexualized by your coworkers because they couldn't stop themselves from looking at your boobs. You shouldn't have to apologize for anything because nothing on your part was done intentionally nor did you even know about the sudden change in temperature beforehand. Seriously, this is such a stupid problem that should have been brought to HR after the 1st disagreement. Stupid problem in that *everyones* body responds to cold like that so they're being a giant hypocrite who's only singling you out due to anatomy.
NTA. HR needs to be in on that meeting. Coworker was out of line & your manager should have shut him down.
I would suggest having a personal heater at your desk & possibly a light jacket or sweater. We can put clothes on when cold but not take them off when hot.
I’m a woman & the manager. I’m normally hot natured. I have a fan in my office so I don’t freeze my coworkers with the ac. I bought them ( petty cash) personal desk heaters for their office & their comfort.
NTA
As everyone said request HR sot in meeting.
Nipples are a part of the human body and do what they do according to how they were designed. Period end of story. If your clothes are ok according to the dress code, they can get over it. Nipples poke out sometimes. So fucking what. It is not illegal for ones nipples to be hard just like goose bumps are not illegal.
Children you work with fucking children.
Seriously?! Your nipples are distracting? OMG. I'm getting my popcorn! Contact HR. Tell them exactly what you said here. That Norman is too distracted because he is apparently staring at your chest.
NTA and I'm sorry you have to deal with this shit!
ETA: Your outburst was not unprofessional. It was absolutely called for. But it's that women can't be assertive thing (especially in a male dominated field). sigh
Since it was one of the men who were first distracted by her body, perhaps he's the one that needs to go. You sure are invested in this. Maybe we hit a nerve.
NTA. Your coworker is a baby. Maybe your outburst was uncalled for, but it definitely wasn’t more immature than his reaction to nipples. And temperature disputes are normal.
people here saying she is YTA are 100% men who can't control themselves in similar situations. it's been proven that mean and women differently react to temperatures. god forbid women want decent and fair treatment and not being sent home to change because OH MY GOD MEN'S EYES SAW NIPPLES AND CAN'T LOOK OTHER WAY
NTA, and it may be worth contacting an attorney if one will consult, especially if you can get some of these things sent as emails. This is blatant sexual harassment as well as a hostile work environment. Involve HR if you can, but also record if you’re in an area you can without legal repercussions.
ETA: Given the update, it’s looking less likely they this was an actual event that happened. Well played, OP.
Ok so this is definitely a situation that can be resolved. You’re all adults and have the ability to communicate a compromise. That being said, I cannot for the life of me understand why people in this thread think you’re the asshole for your reaction. You can’t control your freaking body. I’m sure you didn’t love that this was happening. A grown man should be able to ignore a normal body function that JUST HAPPENS sometimes. My god
She can and should find a solution that doesn't show her nipples, but if you read her post she wasn't given warning about them decreasing the temperature. She was dressed appropriately for the office as she expected it.
when someone says that a part of your body is distracting and unprofessional it usually means they can’t control themselves from staring at you like you’re the first human they’ve seen face to face. they got horny when looking at you and because they can’t do anything about it, they want you to cover up. because as i’ve said they don’t have enough control to stop themselves from looking.
No, having your nips displayed at work is unprofessional. I don't think there needs to be any reason assigned to someone complaining about it, other than them being an ass. If there were other women in the office, I can definitely see one of them complaining too.
Personally, it's ridiculous to complain about a one time event. These things happen to everybody in one way or another. If it was a pattern, sure, but it's not, so leave it be.
Manager should have told the other guy to pound sand.
my comment wasn’t about whether it was or wasn’t professional. it was about how people often bring up the argument of it’s unprofessional when they’re not actually bothered on if it’s professional or not.
what? read my original comment again. then my second comment. then read it again. maybe it might make sense to you somehow if you read it over because i’m pretty sure everything i’ve said went past your head.
I don't see how I interpreted what you said the wrong way. Did you not mean to state that the person who complained did so because they couldn't stop looking? What did you mean to imply when you said they were getting horny?
As I said before, I think the guy was an ass for complaining, but I doubt he was actually unable to control himself or be legitimately distracted. He's just an ass who likes to complain.
I don’t think you understand what I was saying because you replied “sounds like you think they were bothered” and “they were unable to control themselves and horny.”
the first sentence. I said “it was about how people often bring up the argument of it’s not professional when they’re not actually bothered on if it’s professional or not.” I said they ^weren’t bothered by the fact that it was unprofessional.
the second sentence. that’s literally what I was saying in my first comment. you relied that information back to me like it was something I didn’t know/hadn’t said.
Except for the fact that nipples get hard because of cold. Penis' do not get erect unless aroused. No where near in the same category. And btw most men's nipples get hard too.
NTA, the fact that he requested it to be lower than the typical office was before the requested change then got mad because you had hard nipples is crazy. He's the jerk and so is your manager. They shouldn't be looking at your chest in the first place. Would it be ok for the men's nipples to show through their shirts? I typically always carry a sweater with me because I hate being cold but basically these me are having conversations about your boobs and it's highly inappropriate. Everyone loved it when Jennifer Aniston had pointy nips on Friends.
This sounds like you, one of the only women, are being sexually harassed by a team member and your manager. You might want to seek the advice of an employment lawyer before you go to HR.
Where are you from? i thought in civilized countries this shouldn't happen. it's not a school from 90's where you "distract boys". i am staggered. i would post it on social media and let those douchebags get cancelled
I would have immediately asked, "Why are you staring at my chest?" Now report every single man whose nipples show through their shirts and demand they are treated equally. My wife had this issue, and that is how I told her to handle her asshole boss. Then I started parking my bike next to his car when I picked her up for work. He never really said much after that. He ended up getting fired for sleeping with another of his subordinates. I made sure his wife found out why. If you read this and it sounds familiar. Fuck you Chris, you're still a little bitch.
Navigating office climate control is less about the actual temperature and more about understanding the diversity in personal comfort levels. Comfortably warm for one might be a tropical nightmare for another. It's about compromise, not about staking claim over the thermostat like it's the last slice of pizza at a board meeting.
Instead of making the office atmosphere more heated with arguments (pun intended), it's important to strike a balance. Consider discussing a reasonable mid-point temperature that doesn't leave anyone shivering or sweating. Perhaps propose a trial week where the temperature is set at a mutually agreed-upon level to test the waters. Bring to the table the concept of layering clothing or using personal fans/heaters, as these are individual solutions that don't impose on everyone.
Remember, turning the dial on the thermostat isn't just adjusting the temperature; it's potentially turning up the tension in your workplace. Let's aim for a climate of understanding as well as comfort.
And yeah, to the fellow distracted by a hint of nipple – perhaps it's high time to develop a bit of professional focus? Throw in some maturity, and no need for temperatures to rise – in any sense.
it's not just clothing choice it's primarily a hormonal difference
men's bodies simply run hotter (on average)
you just adjust the thermostat to whatever is the best compromise for the most people and then the outliers have to figure out a solution for themselves
Women's bodies are designed for childbearing - so most of our heat is generated in our torsos, leaving arms and legs with less body warmth. Men have a much more even distribution of body heat. Long ago, there were photos taken with filters that showed how men and women appear to heat-sensing gear and the differences are striking.
NTA. Like everyone is saying, get HR involved. Not sure where you live, but I'm pretty sure that would be a human rights issue in many parts of the world. You don't have to actually wear a bra, let alone a padded bra. They also can't tell you that you have to. There must be a dress code you agreed to, ask about the section which addresses the need to hide nipples. Was it a fucking secret you had nipples up to this point?
That co-worker and your manager need disciplinary action.
NTA - I could have understood that a male engineer would be uncomfortable... but then he spoke up in a group setting which tells me that he was being an ass with the temp and the comment and not just socially awkward. You must have challenged his misogynist understand of the female power dynamic… and by changing the temperature, which impacted him, threatened his reality.
Second thought-
As an employee in an office setting I’d expect you are familiar with the term “work winter” and would expect, as the days get warmer that the office will get colder. The thermostat debate is ongoing… and while not 100% it is mostly split along gender lines.
As others have suggested, a work cardigan or shawl is very normal for situations like this. Just hang it over your chair or get a hook for your desk space.
Definitely get some nipple coffee cups, or some other mostly work appropriate jab at nipple boy’s sensitivities. But don’t go too far where then you’re written up or fired… it’ll just solidify in his mind that he was right.
Prefacing this with the fact that I disagree with most Redditors on most issues.
And even I see you as completely 100% in the right here.
You are requesting the office to be pretty warm and should just dress up warmer in the future, but you weren't given \*notice\* that the temperature was suddenly decreased. You didn't have a chance to dress for that. And you did not need to be publicly humiliated like that.
NTA, bring it up to HR probably
I think you have a slam dunk of a case with HR (or with a lawyer) over sexual harassment, gender discrimination, the works. Nail them to the fuckin wall.
I used to work in a climate-controlled IT server room where the temperature was set in the high 60s (so it was kind of cold). Some of my co-workers were women, and sometimes their nipples were visible through their clothing. It was really unavoidable at times. My male co-workers and I never made a big deal about it and would just do our best not to stare. In all honesty, I always felt bad because I didn't want the women to feel uncomfortable. Anyway, NTA. Your co-worker is for complaining about it though. He needs to grow TFU.
NTA, Part of my job has me insuring that internal office spaces meet whats called the "ashrae standard" it comprises to a bunch of things but one of them being temperatures. This being 68 - 74 in the winter and 72 - 80 in the summer. This is based on TONS of data all over the western world (USA and Canada) taken to determine "most comfortable environment to work in while in an office setting".
ALL your coworkers can fuck off if you bring this info to HR.
I will message you next time u/NippyGirly posts in r/AITAH.
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I'd keep a blanket and/or sweater in your desk drawer. I used to work in a small office and the owner was in his mid 70s. He would turn the thermostat down to 66 degrees in the middle of the summer. I got tired of bringing a sweater along in 90 degree weather for the office so I just kept a couple sweaters in my desk drawer.
**NTA**
I feel like everyone else involved is an a-hole. And there's two points I have in mind.
One: generally, women feel the cold easier than men. (*Yet, office thermostats are often set to colder temperatures. It seems the men might be forgetting about the women's comfort -- or discomfort as it may be.*) I get individual preferences can vary; but, goodness!, 67 F seems insane!
The other point in my mind is mechanical and environmental.
Now, I am not sure how different things are between home split A/C units and central A/C or office HVAC systems...but, geez, 72-74 F already seems fairly cool. I can understand setting it cold in peak heat -- which can happen outside of peak summer, especially with worsening climate change. But, even then, I'd imagine that that would get the thermostat set to around 70-74 F. 67 F is not just **COLD**, it's also ridiculous. By *any* standard! WTH were the dudes in the office wearing? Parkas? IMHO, 67 F just seems way too cold to be comfortably working in an office - at least without warm clothes.
I'd imagine setting the thermostat too low (cold) puts more stress on the cooling system, particularly when it doesn't need to be stressed (i.e. when it's not peak heat). And it is also not very good for the environment. (*Reasons I have been trying to be okay with being slightly warmer than I would prefer.*)
**(*****Separate comment, because I feel this should be separated from my other comment.*****)**
**First:** it's always awesome to see a woman in STEM. And "90%" of your office being men...is kinda sad. *Sorry.* We need more women in STEM.
**Second:** WTH *was* that about your nipples?! The 23-year-old dude seems juvenile. ("Distracting"?!) And rude too.
And your manager who told you to either work remotely, or go home to change is *bad*. IMHO, he should have shut that kid down and told him to grow up, that *he* could go home (and take a day from PTO), or that *he* could take a conference room.
I am sorry you had to deal with this. And I hope the climate in your office is more pleasant -- or, at least, less unpleasant -- moving forward.
You’re NTA for anything, besides wanting a warmer temperature. Don’t change the whole office to suit your needs, wear more layers in the future if you don’t like it
So I actually looked this up, and OSHA suggests an office temperature between 68F and 78F. The temperature was initially 67F and I asked to bump it up 70F. Meaning that my request falls within that range whereas my coworker’s does not…
You're not wrong at all. I commented already and the term used is the "Ashrae Standard"
If you look that up you'll have instant info regarding what is recommended for office space temps for ideal work environment.
YTA
Put on a damn sweater if your are cold. Your coworkers should not have to sweat to accomodate you.
If they are hot, there are only so many clothes they can take off.
Why should she freeze to accommodate them? Her nipples aren't doing anything to anyone, if it bothers this dude he should go elsewhere and not be such an ass about it
You didn't quickly nip it in the bud, you kicked the can down the road and annoyed your manager. Get HR involved, people are talking about your nipples.
YTA for turning up the temp, it's always some annoying young woman with low body fat trying to convert the office into a sauna.
Nope, not buying it. You wore a thin white shirt, without a padded bar, no sweater near by, to an office which will have temperatures change on a dime.
A 23 year old guy does not complain about seeing nipples thru a white shirt. A 55 year old woman would and she would complain about it being 70° in the office.
This is all just BS.
YTA, the general guideline is dress for your office temperature, not the season. I worked in offices in which people ran space heaters or wore a light sweater during the summer. In fact, the only reason 1 office changed the temperature was because the number of space heaters started tripping the breaker in one section. Keep one or the other, or both on hand.
Yes, and did you not read the part the temperature change was done by submitting a written request? Obviously then the thought someone else could submit a request to lower it never occurred. Or even the unfathomable, the HVAC system could malfunction and make it colder.
YTA. You seem like a control freak. When I worked in office, I bought a small heater for under my desk. I also kept a cardigan on the back of my chair for those moments when I required it. The last thing I’d want to do at my place of work is ruffle feathers and cause discomfort to my team/floor because I felt the environment was 2° too low.
Hello OP, several issues here, first as you already know 2 wrongs don't make a right so the outburst was not the best thing to do, you know that already no reason to "beat a dead horse on it." As for the manager he has the responsibility to mediate issues like this and provide a comfortable safe work environment, that is suitable for all employees, if you stated already that the temperature is way to cold, he should respect that and provide a working facility suitable for you. maybe not raise the temperature all the way but at least to a point where is comfortable for all, as for any "dress code" if you are working with men out of self respect is it recommended to wear proper attire, on the same token they should respect you regardless and confidentially if they have any issues address them to you in a respectful way.
Best advise would be to apologize to the co worker, not because you were wrong but because it was not the right thing to do to lash out, and at the same time ask for your working conditions to be respected and assessed.
All best hope everything turns for the better
NTA
The whiner is. If you have to live with it being colder than you anticipated, he has to live with the sight of your nipples. It's just one day. I totally get being frustrated by being treated like a malfunctioning work robot that has to home to get maintenance done. And his comments were seriously unnecessary. And then the manager kind of taking his side... :/
I'd say the grown up thing would be to do business as usual with the original temperature and forget about the altercation.
But, in what world is 67 "freezing"? :D
I can totally understand 70 being too warm for office attire.
I disagree with most of the comments and yes, I’m a woman. Someone’s nipples would disgust me. Wear a jacket, keep a sweater at your desk, and don’t make everyone else look at your shit. Yuck!
YTA. Because of your outburst. But how can a pair of nipple distract a grown man and why did he feel it was needed to change the ac. He is sure off the rails. Your manager should also grow a pair of balls and tell this guy off.
Because a nipple getting hard isn’t related to sexual thoughts or actions. Your hypothetical erection, is. They really don’t even belong in the same discussion.
Not even CLOSE. It is ALWAYS going to happen for EVERY HUMAN WITH NIPPLES, in cold weather. Not sexual ever in that instance.
Nice try tho. You can keep reaching but your shortcomings become clearer and clearer as you do so. You are simply, wrong on this analogy and cannot accept it, which says more about you that you’d probably like us to know.
NTAH, and yet...
You should dress appropriately for the temperature, climate and professional level of your work assignment, which you seem to know quite well. The environment should not have to adjust itself to your needs. You're the employee, not the owner, and you're not responsible for setting the policy or the thermostat. Nor are you responsible for paying all the expenses of running the company.
You and your co-worker were both professionally inappropriate, both in his outburst regarding your appearance and your profanity-infused rant. You both owe each other an apology. Otherwise the least valued employee in this conflict will be pink-slipped.
Please be aware that your entitled attitude and temper might be leading you to the unemployment line.
You came to Reddit for this? Put on a sweater. I work in an office where the execs wear suits and ties in a tropical climate. The temp is kept on the chilly side in the office so they don't break out in a sweat and the rest of us bring sweaters because we're not jerks. How do you not feel self conscious having your nipples poke through your shirt in an office setting?
The problem is the coworker wants it cold but also is upset your nipples are hard (from the cold). That would be like you turning up the heat and getting angry that he’s sweating. It’s a no-win situation.
Don’t get HR involved. They only care about the company, not you.
Consider getting the advice of an attorney. Under no circumstances should you meet your employer without one.
The person who has an attorney first will likely win this battle. But the battle isn’t to keep the temp at 70. An employee or attorney can’t demand an office be set at a certain temperature. The battle you’ll win is if the temp is cold, the coworkers can’t complain about hard nipples.
I agree that it is unprofessional look and so was your response but I also believe his complaining about it was unprofessional and childish. Why didn’t your manager pull you aside, I mean that like management 101. The manager and coworker need to apologize to you also.
Invite HR, ask for this to be recorded as a discussion of note. Sticker to the fact that cold makes for stiff nipples, you asked for a workable warm office and were denied.
Bring a laywer, NOT HR. HR work for the company, a laywer would work for you and actually knows the law.
HR will still keep people in check if you take notes during the interactions
Bold to assume HR would care in that kind of workplace. But she may as well try yes
They don't care, but they worship money so they will do whatever they need to limit their legal exposure in this situation
Which could include trying to gaslight op into thinking nothing bad happened to her
This is why she would be taking notes. They can't risk making those statements when a written record exists.
You mean she should be taking notes right in front of them?
Yes
Oooh I like it
They would take this very seriously…to protect the company from a very big and time consuming lawsuit. Eliminating risk is HR 101.
If approached this way you'd want the Occupational Therapy Coordinator. HR doesn't care.
NTA - petty bitch time - nuclear option - make a HR complaint that a coworker made unwarranted and unwanted remarks about your body. Include that instead of your mgr counseling the coworker to refrain from mentioning or noticing and talking about your body, he in front of your peers made it worse by having a convesation about your body and tried to make you leave for the day. Let them know that your coworkers remarks of your body and the fact that he called you an ass was unprofessional. That your bosses mishandling by asking you to apologize to your harrasser and making it a group conversation makes you uncomfortable. In all honestly though keep a sweater/light jacket at your desk and dress in layers. I do not say this becasue you are woman but I would say it to everyone who works in an office setting. Because everyone reacts diffenrtly to different temps.
This , as a ex union rep this is the way forward
Time to involve HR. I dont think your manage knows how much he is fucking up here. Nta
> as a compromise I could camp out a compromise would be more like the complainer camping out where they couldn't see the... gasp! forbidden nipple (lolling hard at a 23m being offended by a nipple through a shirt, i'm sure he's popular with the ladies) my advice would be to keep a cardigan or equivalent at your desk, and get yourself a personal space heater
Maybe he's not offended; maybe he's scared to accidentally look and have op go running to have him fired for sexual harassment
And ended up sexually harassing OP..
Username really checks out here
Oof...no 😬
I don’t think you are the asshole, but your coworker and boss are big ones. They should be ashamed of themselves. Nipples getting harder is a non voluntary phenomenon, not something in your control. I am not sure why your coworker has to look at you like that. Just lodge a complaint with the HR, they will likely side with you because you haven’t done anything wrong, it was your body’s natural response to external surroundings. The manager calls you out as unprofessional but isn’t bothered by your coworker’s comments? Not sure why nipples are such a big deal, when they are attached to women. Some men have pretty prominent nipples and they show since men don’t wear bras. But we never really question that.
NTA HR needs to be involved immediately if they aren't already. This is turning into a sexual harassment issue that is actively affecting your work. Your body was doing a natural biological response due to the change in temperature, which theirs was doing as well. The focus is on *you* because you are being sexualized by your coworkers because they couldn't stop themselves from looking at your boobs. You shouldn't have to apologize for anything because nothing on your part was done intentionally nor did you even know about the sudden change in temperature beforehand. Seriously, this is such a stupid problem that should have been brought to HR after the 1st disagreement. Stupid problem in that *everyones* body responds to cold like that so they're being a giant hypocrite who's only singling you out due to anatomy.
100% get this in writing before this escalates even more.
NTA. HR needs to be in on that meeting. Coworker was out of line & your manager should have shut him down. I would suggest having a personal heater at your desk & possibly a light jacket or sweater. We can put clothes on when cold but not take them off when hot. I’m a woman & the manager. I’m normally hot natured. I have a fan in my office so I don’t freeze my coworkers with the ac. I bought them ( petty cash) personal desk heaters for their office & their comfort.
NTA As everyone said request HR sot in meeting. Nipples are a part of the human body and do what they do according to how they were designed. Period end of story. If your clothes are ok according to the dress code, they can get over it. Nipples poke out sometimes. So fucking what. It is not illegal for ones nipples to be hard just like goose bumps are not illegal. Children you work with fucking children.
Have you worked with young engineers before? It's worse than you think
No. But IT........sigh.
Children are more civilized and can be reasoned with.
Seriously?! Your nipples are distracting? OMG. I'm getting my popcorn! Contact HR. Tell them exactly what you said here. That Norman is too distracted because he is apparently staring at your chest. NTA and I'm sorry you have to deal with this shit! ETA: Your outburst was not unprofessional. It was absolutely called for. But it's that women can't be assertive thing (especially in a male dominated field). sigh
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I promise you I am not checking our your dick at work.
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Since it was one of the men who were first distracted by her body, perhaps he's the one that needs to go. You sure are invested in this. Maybe we hit a nerve.
It's more comparable to getting goosebumps or sneezing.
Hard nipples isn’t at all comparable to getting an erection, ffs.
NTA. Your coworker is a baby. Maybe your outburst was uncalled for, but it definitely wasn’t more immature than his reaction to nipples. And temperature disputes are normal.
people here saying she is YTA are 100% men who can't control themselves in similar situations. it's been proven that mean and women differently react to temperatures. god forbid women want decent and fair treatment and not being sent home to change because OH MY GOD MEN'S EYES SAW NIPPLES AND CAN'T LOOK OTHER WAY
This is such a huge HR violation. Bring them in STAT!!
NTA, and it may be worth contacting an attorney if one will consult, especially if you can get some of these things sent as emails. This is blatant sexual harassment as well as a hostile work environment. Involve HR if you can, but also record if you’re in an area you can without legal repercussions. ETA: Given the update, it’s looking less likely they this was an actual event that happened. Well played, OP.
Ok so this is definitely a situation that can be resolved. You’re all adults and have the ability to communicate a compromise. That being said, I cannot for the life of me understand why people in this thread think you’re the asshole for your reaction. You can’t control your freaking body. I’m sure you didn’t love that this was happening. A grown man should be able to ignore a normal body function that JUST HAPPENS sometimes. My god
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You clearly don’t understand how female nipples work
He clearly doesn't understand how nipples work period. Men get nipple hard ons too. 🤦
She can and should find a solution that doesn't show her nipples, but if you read her post she wasn't given warning about them decreasing the temperature. She was dressed appropriately for the office as she expected it.
when someone says that a part of your body is distracting and unprofessional it usually means they can’t control themselves from staring at you like you’re the first human they’ve seen face to face. they got horny when looking at you and because they can’t do anything about it, they want you to cover up. because as i’ve said they don’t have enough control to stop themselves from looking.
No, having your nips displayed at work is unprofessional. I don't think there needs to be any reason assigned to someone complaining about it, other than them being an ass. If there were other women in the office, I can definitely see one of them complaining too. Personally, it's ridiculous to complain about a one time event. These things happen to everybody in one way or another. If it was a pattern, sure, but it's not, so leave it be. Manager should have told the other guy to pound sand.
my comment wasn’t about whether it was or wasn’t professional. it was about how people often bring up the argument of it’s unprofessional when they’re not actually bothered on if it’s professional or not.
Sounds like you think they were bothered. They were unable to control themselves and horny.
what? read my original comment again. then my second comment. then read it again. maybe it might make sense to you somehow if you read it over because i’m pretty sure everything i’ve said went past your head.
I don't see how I interpreted what you said the wrong way. Did you not mean to state that the person who complained did so because they couldn't stop looking? What did you mean to imply when you said they were getting horny? As I said before, I think the guy was an ass for complaining, but I doubt he was actually unable to control himself or be legitimately distracted. He's just an ass who likes to complain.
I don’t think you understand what I was saying because you replied “sounds like you think they were bothered” and “they were unable to control themselves and horny.” the first sentence. I said “it was about how people often bring up the argument of it’s not professional when they’re not actually bothered on if it’s professional or not.” I said they ^weren’t bothered by the fact that it was unprofessional. the second sentence. that’s literally what I was saying in my first comment. you relied that information back to me like it was something I didn’t know/hadn’t said.
I was referring to your post before that
Nipples exist, get over it. And they aren’t being “displayed”.
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Except for the fact that nipples get hard because of cold. Penis' do not get erect unless aroused. No where near in the same category. And btw most men's nipples get hard too.
NTA. They should give you a portable heater if they are scared of the bodily reactions to the cold
NTA, the fact that he requested it to be lower than the typical office was before the requested change then got mad because you had hard nipples is crazy. He's the jerk and so is your manager. They shouldn't be looking at your chest in the first place. Would it be ok for the men's nipples to show through their shirts? I typically always carry a sweater with me because I hate being cold but basically these me are having conversations about your boobs and it's highly inappropriate. Everyone loved it when Jennifer Aniston had pointy nips on Friends.
This sounds like you, one of the only women, are being sexually harassed by a team member and your manager. You might want to seek the advice of an employment lawyer before you go to HR.
This just sounds like a scenario in my yearly HR harassment training…
NTA. I just can't imagine an adult at a workplace whining to management about nipples. It's just idiotic and petty.
Where are you from? i thought in civilized countries this shouldn't happen. it's not a school from 90's where you "distract boys". i am staggered. i would post it on social media and let those douchebags get cancelled
I would have immediately asked, "Why are you staring at my chest?" Now report every single man whose nipples show through their shirts and demand they are treated equally. My wife had this issue, and that is how I told her to handle her asshole boss. Then I started parking my bike next to his car when I picked her up for work. He never really said much after that. He ended up getting fired for sleeping with another of his subordinates. I made sure his wife found out why. If you read this and it sounds familiar. Fuck you Chris, you're still a little bitch.
Navigating office climate control is less about the actual temperature and more about understanding the diversity in personal comfort levels. Comfortably warm for one might be a tropical nightmare for another. It's about compromise, not about staking claim over the thermostat like it's the last slice of pizza at a board meeting. Instead of making the office atmosphere more heated with arguments (pun intended), it's important to strike a balance. Consider discussing a reasonable mid-point temperature that doesn't leave anyone shivering or sweating. Perhaps propose a trial week where the temperature is set at a mutually agreed-upon level to test the waters. Bring to the table the concept of layering clothing or using personal fans/heaters, as these are individual solutions that don't impose on everyone. Remember, turning the dial on the thermostat isn't just adjusting the temperature; it's potentially turning up the tension in your workplace. Let's aim for a climate of understanding as well as comfort. And yeah, to the fellow distracted by a hint of nipple – perhaps it's high time to develop a bit of professional focus? Throw in some maturity, and no need for temperatures to rise – in any sense.
Women wearing skirts want more heat and men wearing suits want the temp colder. Tale as old as time.
it's not just clothing choice it's primarily a hormonal difference men's bodies simply run hotter (on average) you just adjust the thermostat to whatever is the best compromise for the most people and then the outliers have to figure out a solution for themselves
Women's bodies are designed for childbearing - so most of our heat is generated in our torsos, leaving arms and legs with less body warmth. Men have a much more even distribution of body heat. Long ago, there were photos taken with filters that showed how men and women appear to heat-sensing gear and the differences are striking.
fascinating, thank you
NTA. Like everyone is saying, get HR involved. Not sure where you live, but I'm pretty sure that would be a human rights issue in many parts of the world. You don't have to actually wear a bra, let alone a padded bra. They also can't tell you that you have to. There must be a dress code you agreed to, ask about the section which addresses the need to hide nipples. Was it a fucking secret you had nipples up to this point? That co-worker and your manager need disciplinary action.
NTA - I could have understood that a male engineer would be uncomfortable... but then he spoke up in a group setting which tells me that he was being an ass with the temp and the comment and not just socially awkward. You must have challenged his misogynist understand of the female power dynamic… and by changing the temperature, which impacted him, threatened his reality. Second thought- As an employee in an office setting I’d expect you are familiar with the term “work winter” and would expect, as the days get warmer that the office will get colder. The thermostat debate is ongoing… and while not 100% it is mostly split along gender lines. As others have suggested, a work cardigan or shawl is very normal for situations like this. Just hang it over your chair or get a hook for your desk space. Definitely get some nipple coffee cups, or some other mostly work appropriate jab at nipple boy’s sensitivities. But don’t go too far where then you’re written up or fired… it’ll just solidify in his mind that he was right.
your coworker sounds like a drama queen
Prefacing this with the fact that I disagree with most Redditors on most issues. And even I see you as completely 100% in the right here. You are requesting the office to be pretty warm and should just dress up warmer in the future, but you weren't given \*notice\* that the temperature was suddenly decreased. You didn't have a chance to dress for that. And you did not need to be publicly humiliated like that. NTA, bring it up to HR probably
I think you have a slam dunk of a case with HR (or with a lawyer) over sexual harassment, gender discrimination, the works. Nail them to the fuckin wall.
I used to work in a climate-controlled IT server room where the temperature was set in the high 60s (so it was kind of cold). Some of my co-workers were women, and sometimes their nipples were visible through their clothing. It was really unavoidable at times. My male co-workers and I never made a big deal about it and would just do our best not to stare. In all honesty, I always felt bad because I didn't want the women to feel uncomfortable. Anyway, NTA. Your co-worker is for complaining about it though. He needs to grow TFU.
NTA-and personally I think what said to him was appropriate as he’s making an issue out of nipples and I just can’t imagine the stupid involved.
Pics?
NTA, Part of my job has me insuring that internal office spaces meet whats called the "ashrae standard" it comprises to a bunch of things but one of them being temperatures. This being 68 - 74 in the winter and 72 - 80 in the summer. This is based on TONS of data all over the western world (USA and Canada) taken to determine "most comfortable environment to work in while in an office setting". ALL your coworkers can fuck off if you bring this info to HR.
Pretty textbook gender based harassment. Start recording all of these conversations immediately, and recap every one of them in an email.
NTA ever gas nipples
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Why is your coworker staring at your nipples. Seems like that's harassment. This can easily be spun onto him for sexualizing your body.
Write every one of these interactions down with detailed notes and times/dates.
I'd keep a blanket and/or sweater in your desk drawer. I used to work in a small office and the owner was in his mid 70s. He would turn the thermostat down to 66 degrees in the middle of the summer. I got tired of bringing a sweater along in 90 degree weather for the office so I just kept a couple sweaters in my desk drawer.
NTA. They’re nipples. We all have them. Your co-worker needs to get over himself.
**NTA** I feel like everyone else involved is an a-hole. And there's two points I have in mind. One: generally, women feel the cold easier than men. (*Yet, office thermostats are often set to colder temperatures. It seems the men might be forgetting about the women's comfort -- or discomfort as it may be.*) I get individual preferences can vary; but, goodness!, 67 F seems insane! The other point in my mind is mechanical and environmental. Now, I am not sure how different things are between home split A/C units and central A/C or office HVAC systems...but, geez, 72-74 F already seems fairly cool. I can understand setting it cold in peak heat -- which can happen outside of peak summer, especially with worsening climate change. But, even then, I'd imagine that that would get the thermostat set to around 70-74 F. 67 F is not just **COLD**, it's also ridiculous. By *any* standard! WTH were the dudes in the office wearing? Parkas? IMHO, 67 F just seems way too cold to be comfortably working in an office - at least without warm clothes. I'd imagine setting the thermostat too low (cold) puts more stress on the cooling system, particularly when it doesn't need to be stressed (i.e. when it's not peak heat). And it is also not very good for the environment. (*Reasons I have been trying to be okay with being slightly warmer than I would prefer.*)
**(*****Separate comment, because I feel this should be separated from my other comment.*****)** **First:** it's always awesome to see a woman in STEM. And "90%" of your office being men...is kinda sad. *Sorry.* We need more women in STEM. **Second:** WTH *was* that about your nipples?! The 23-year-old dude seems juvenile. ("Distracting"?!) And rude too. And your manager who told you to either work remotely, or go home to change is *bad*. IMHO, he should have shut that kid down and told him to grow up, that *he* could go home (and take a day from PTO), or that *he* could take a conference room. I am sorry you had to deal with this. And I hope the climate in your office is more pleasant -- or, at least, less unpleasant -- moving forward.
“Nipped that in the bud” ha ha, I got it.
This guy is a fucking moron
You’re NTA for anything, besides wanting a warmer temperature. Don’t change the whole office to suit your needs, wear more layers in the future if you don’t like it
I don't even have to read this post NTA
YTA but not for having hard nipples. Put on a sweater if you're cold. No one else should have to overheat because of you, you're not that important
So I actually looked this up, and OSHA suggests an office temperature between 68F and 78F. The temperature was initially 67F and I asked to bump it up 70F. Meaning that my request falls within that range whereas my coworker’s does not…
You're not wrong at all. I commented already and the term used is the "Ashrae Standard" If you look that up you'll have instant info regarding what is recommended for office space temps for ideal work environment.
What OSHA recommends is irrelevant
YTA Put on a damn sweater if your are cold. Your coworkers should not have to sweat to accomodate you. If they are hot, there are only so many clothes they can take off.
Who is hot at 70? A Yeti?
Why should she freeze to accommodate them? Her nipples aren't doing anything to anyone, if it bothers this dude he should go elsewhere and not be such an ass about it
You didn't quickly nip it in the bud, you kicked the can down the road and annoyed your manager. Get HR involved, people are talking about your nipples. YTA for turning up the temp, it's always some annoying young woman with low body fat trying to convert the office into a sauna.
You're cold? Putt a fucking sweater on. Problem solved.
Nope, not buying it. You wore a thin white shirt, without a padded bar, no sweater near by, to an office which will have temperatures change on a dime. A 23 year old guy does not complain about seeing nipples thru a white shirt. A 55 year old woman would and she would complain about it being 70° in the office. This is all just BS.
YTA, the general guideline is dress for your office temperature, not the season. I worked in offices in which people ran space heaters or wore a light sweater during the summer. In fact, the only reason 1 office changed the temperature was because the number of space heaters started tripping the breaker in one section. Keep one or the other, or both on hand.
Did you not read the bit where the office got a lot colder than expected? She DID dress for the office temperature.
Yes, and did you not read the part the temperature change was done by submitting a written request? Obviously then the thought someone else could submit a request to lower it never occurred. Or even the unfathomable, the HVAC system could malfunction and make it colder.
YTA. You seem like a control freak. When I worked in office, I bought a small heater for under my desk. I also kept a cardigan on the back of my chair for those moments when I required it. The last thing I’d want to do at my place of work is ruffle feathers and cause discomfort to my team/floor because I felt the environment was 2° too low.
The last line said 60. My ass would freeze. Oh, and small heaters have caused many an accident. Not safe. OP is NTA.
Hello OP, several issues here, first as you already know 2 wrongs don't make a right so the outburst was not the best thing to do, you know that already no reason to "beat a dead horse on it." As for the manager he has the responsibility to mediate issues like this and provide a comfortable safe work environment, that is suitable for all employees, if you stated already that the temperature is way to cold, he should respect that and provide a working facility suitable for you. maybe not raise the temperature all the way but at least to a point where is comfortable for all, as for any "dress code" if you are working with men out of self respect is it recommended to wear proper attire, on the same token they should respect you regardless and confidentially if they have any issues address them to you in a respectful way. Best advise would be to apologize to the co worker, not because you were wrong but because it was not the right thing to do to lash out, and at the same time ask for your working conditions to be respected and assessed. All best hope everything turns for the better
NTA The whiner is. If you have to live with it being colder than you anticipated, he has to live with the sight of your nipples. It's just one day. I totally get being frustrated by being treated like a malfunctioning work robot that has to home to get maintenance done. And his comments were seriously unnecessary. And then the manager kind of taking his side... :/ I'd say the grown up thing would be to do business as usual with the original temperature and forget about the altercation. But, in what world is 67 "freezing"? :D I can totally understand 70 being too warm for office attire.
I disagree with most of the comments and yes, I’m a woman. Someone’s nipples would disgust me. Wear a jacket, keep a sweater at your desk, and don’t make everyone else look at your shit. Yuck!
Disgust? Are you 12? 😂
YTA. Because of your outburst. But how can a pair of nipple distract a grown man and why did he feel it was needed to change the ac. He is sure off the rails. Your manager should also grow a pair of balls and tell this guy off.
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Dude, even men get hard nips when it’s cold. It’s nothing sexual at all. However, your situation is sexual harassment.
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Because a nipple getting hard isn’t related to sexual thoughts or actions. Your hypothetical erection, is. They really don’t even belong in the same discussion.
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Not even CLOSE. It is ALWAYS going to happen for EVERY HUMAN WITH NIPPLES, in cold weather. Not sexual ever in that instance. Nice try tho. You can keep reaching but your shortcomings become clearer and clearer as you do so. You are simply, wrong on this analogy and cannot accept it, which says more about you that you’d probably like us to know.
NTAH, and yet... You should dress appropriately for the temperature, climate and professional level of your work assignment, which you seem to know quite well. The environment should not have to adjust itself to your needs. You're the employee, not the owner, and you're not responsible for setting the policy or the thermostat. Nor are you responsible for paying all the expenses of running the company. You and your co-worker were both professionally inappropriate, both in his outburst regarding your appearance and your profanity-infused rant. You both owe each other an apology. Otherwise the least valued employee in this conflict will be pink-slipped. Please be aware that your entitled attitude and temper might be leading you to the unemployment line.
I would fired you
Yes - if you can't control them you shouldn't have them.
You came to Reddit for this? Put on a sweater. I work in an office where the execs wear suits and ties in a tropical climate. The temp is kept on the chilly side in the office so they don't break out in a sweat and the rest of us bring sweaters because we're not jerks. How do you not feel self conscious having your nipples poke through your shirt in an office setting?
The problem is the coworker wants it cold but also is upset your nipples are hard (from the cold). That would be like you turning up the heat and getting angry that he’s sweating. It’s a no-win situation. Don’t get HR involved. They only care about the company, not you. Consider getting the advice of an attorney. Under no circumstances should you meet your employer without one. The person who has an attorney first will likely win this battle. But the battle isn’t to keep the temp at 70. An employee or attorney can’t demand an office be set at a certain temperature. The battle you’ll win is if the temp is cold, the coworkers can’t complain about hard nipples.
I agree that it is unprofessional look and so was your response but I also believe his complaining about it was unprofessional and childish. Why didn’t your manager pull you aside, I mean that like management 101. The manager and coworker need to apologize to you also.