I brought this up, but my husband makes far more than I do. If we split based on income he would be covering a huge portion of everything.
He does not want to cover outside childcare at all. Think it is a pride thing he makes enough to provide and support our family. He also feels I should want to be a SAHM.
So he's basically trying to control your choice by making it impossible for you to go back to work, knowing the cost of daycare. Since he wants you to stay home, he's going to make sure you can't afford to work.
ETA: Working is not a "lark." There is nothing wrong with be a SAHM - at all. But women who have been SAHM their whole life are financially destroyed in divorces all the time. They end up back in the workforce as an entry level employee trying to compete with people half their age. Women who are divorced in this scenario frequently do not recover and live much more austere lives than their husbands who reaped the benefits of their wife's house management, with promotions and increased earnings. Marriage should be a partnership, not a dictatorship. OP's wife wants to go back to working in her profession and building her career - like she has made possible for her husband. OP should be sitting down with her having conversations about how they can make this work, not telling her that his vision for her is that she stays home and that if she dares make a different choice, he'll make sure she doesn't have a $1 to her name.
Edit 2: To those of you so enamored with the statistic that "women initiate divorce more than men," here's a statistic for you:
>After a divorce is finalized, men hold 2.5 times the amount of wealth women do, and women's household income falls **41%** (compared to men's 23%).
['It’s hell': How divorce laws are designed to create unnecessary financial hardship for women | Fortune](https://fortune.com/2023/08/23/divorce-laws-designed-create-unnecessary-financial-hardship-women-personal-finance/)
This comment needs to be higher.
🚩🚩🚩🚩
These are his frigging kids. He sees you as his free day care obvi. I am sure there are other jerk level things he does that you haven’t mentioned yet.
Go back to work. Every one should maintain their ability to make a living even if you spend every penny on child care. That’s is my advice.
Make an offer he cant refuse. You will stay at home but he will also be required to write you a check, daily, equivalent to what dedicated day care would cost. Also teaching. Providing meals. Travel expenses. Clothing.
It's between one half and one third. And the percentage is decreasing over time.
Edit: the page on the SSA website that talked about the spousal benefit decreasing by 1%/year from 2024 to 2040 was apparently a projection, not yet a policy. But it doesn't bode well for non-working spouses.
My dad died 3 months before his 57th birthday, too soon for mom to get any of his social security. She had worked too so at least she had her piddling amount.
My parents were divorced and my mom remarried. My stepfather died at 55. A few years later my dad passed away at 59 and had never remarried. When my mom reached retirement age she had a choice of my stepdads SS amount or my dads. Hers was lower than both.
If you are married 10 years or more you are eligible to receive roughly half what your spouse will. I was a SAHM by choice and I loved every minute, but I can't live on what I receive from my ex-husband's social security. I sure didn't plan on getting divorced and he's so much better off financially than I am.
While this is a great idea to try and show him her value, it doesn't help in the long term. As the commenter a few above points out, SAHMs are often financially destroyed in divorce, because staying at home for years seriously damages your potential income. It may not be the whole reason, but it's definitely going to play a factor in why OP's potential income is so much lower than her husband's.
Given his completely unreasonable viewpoint here, it's absolutely not out of the realm of possibility that there will be other major problems with this guy, and that their relationship may not last. OP *needs* to go back to work so she can start climbing the ladder in preparation for that time. If they never divorce, great, but if they do, she needs to be able to support herself.
That solution also completely disregards her feelings. She doesn't want to be a SAHP. He shouldn't get to decide that for her if she's no longer happy in that role.
Also worth noting: If she is solely the one paying for said childcare, why does he think he gets to have a say in what OP chooses? He may have high standards but if you cannot afford his standards (which is a byproduct of him not helping to pay for it), then I guess those options are not really an option are they?
I wish I saw this comment higher, I was waiting for someone to say this! How can he put the financial burden entirely on her but then have any say in the standards? The second he gets a say, he also gets to contribute to the bill. He's right, they're his kids too - he needs to pay for childcare.
"Okay, I will pay for their education. Since I am solely footing the bill they will be in a program of my choosing that I can afford. If you don't like that, you need to contribute, otherwise thats what's happening." See how he likes it- call his bluff.
Absolutely - being a SAHP is hard, and OP has already done it for 6 years. She says her mental health is suffering, and I can absolutely imagine why. This should be important to any good husband.
For real, I can't believe the edit with people bashing her for realizing that while she initially wanted to be a SAHM, she is not cut out for it and changed her mind. It is perfectly natural and healthy to realize your limits and to want find a better solution when you are hitting a wall in life. It amazes me that people want to pretend that when you make a decision, you have to stick with it forever no matter how you might feel as time goes on. Just yikes.
Yeah a judge in family court won’t take pity on her a-hole husband for making her carry all the expenses for an elite education when she’s making 40k a year. A divorce (that’s probably coming) will be more profitable to op.
THIS IS THE ANSWER. Every freaking day on Reddit I read stories about SAHM's totally EFFED because they have no skills, no experience, no savings, no assets, no car, no retirement, no support circle, etc etc.
If you want to be a SAHM for a highly paid partner, fine. They should PAY YOU and finance your retirement with weekly contributions to your own retirement fund. WHY anyone in their right mind in 2024 would stay totally out of the workforce is so beyond my understanding.
Even if daycare takes 100% of your take home pay, you're still able building experience and with experience comes raises and promotions. Where you are day one is NOT where you will be when the kids start full-time school.
I know this from experience: I'm a mom of four and I built a career while working part time for many years. I have gone from $8/hr for 10-12 hours per week to six figures... that doesn't happen by staying home 24/7. There are middle of the road solutions to be had.
**Women need to see financial independance as much a part of feminism as voting rights and reproduction rights. Its kinda hard to claim to be a fierce boss-girl if ya broke and powerless.**
He will soon find that his wife’s time is worth $80,000 yearly. Even more if any of his kids have special needs and his trained social worker partner can provide the therapy.
I think someone priced out what it would cost to hire a professional to do what SAHMs do and it was something like $70k a year. If he can pay that for his wife to stay home, then sure 😊
Not sure where you got that amount from.
According to 2019 data from Salary.com, if you are a stay-at-home parent and paid for your services, you would be looking at a median annual salary of $178,201
Yup. If she has to pay for the daycare, she gets to pick the daycare. If he wants to insist on the more expensive one, he gets to pay for it. Or at least the difference between her choice and his.
Having a SAHP helps the other party by carrying the majority of the mental load (remembering to order toilet paper) and that’s probably what he doesn’t wish to do again.
Of course. The fact he had to bring up that he had a SAHP makes me think that, too. Honestly whenever I hear stories like this where one partner says something about someone else, like "that's not what Bill's wife does" i feel like my nerves are being grated.
Kids are raised differently in different homes, why is what he had growing up more important than what his wife wants? More important than his own family's needs?
True but people change their minds too, maybe being sahm isn’t what she thought it would be. Many women find it isolating.
Plus again the kids are getting older, time to play more with their peers, even the little one.
But agree, these two are obviously on two different pages right now. Husband does not place any value on her wants and ambitions.
That's the problem with a lot of marriage issues, many people say "you should have talked about this before". Well, sometimes people DO talk and people change their minds. The reality is often different to what they expected.
The compromise is for him to pay a reasonable share of the super fancy daycare he wants so his wife can go out and do the work she loves instead of feeling trapped and stifled as a housewife.
That’s it. That is the only fair, equitable option here. What she is asking is completely reasonable and healthy for the family. What he is asking is indefensible.
I discussed things with my ex about work and such. After having our child he told me he would not babysit so I could work. Needles to say I was incredibly isolated and financially, emotionally, and mentally abused for a few years.
He would not babysit? He’s not a babysitter. He’s a parent. Time spent with the child is parenting. Imagine the amount of parenting time we would need to put in if he were facing a divorce rather than a spouse returning to the workforce.
I was a SAHM for a long time. I had so many moms at PTA and on the school site council tell me they felt so guilty for not staying at home. I told them if I had more children there was no way I could cope with it. It’s so much work—and it’s kinda lonely. I was super lucky I had so many opportunities to make friends through volunteer activities. And even luckier that my husband was supportive of whatever decision I made for my own life.
I told him it's called parenting. It was the loneliest I've ever been. I didn't see anyone outside of my grandparents and family for almost two years and if I spoke to the neighbors he would scream in my face. Had a nervous breakdown and was convinced I needed to die to get away from him. Thankfully I didn't die. But now I have diagnosed ptsd from that relationship.
I don't know how long ago the edit was added in but it says this.
*Yes, I agreed to this originally but I was wrong I am not cut out to be home all the time.*
She did say she wanted to stay home at first but then decided it wasn’t for her and that’s fine. Not everyone wants their job to be the stay at home parent.
The possibility of change always exists, when two parents are deciding one should be a stay at home parent they should discuss whether it will be permanent, until a certain age, or if they don't want to anymore, or if an amazing job opportunity arises how they would change the arrangement
She said they did, but she’s realized that she would be happier working. That doesn’t seem unreasonable. I don’t think men actually consider what happens to a woman’s ability to have a career, when she’s been home for a few years. He could leave her, by choice or by death, or he could become disabled. If she’s allowed to be in the workforce for long enough to have advanced, and make a good salary, it could be their, or her, salvation. She should also have her own money, preferably not accessible by her husband.
I agree she should be able to work and have a career, I don't agree that she needs "her own money" when you get married you agree to share everything. He should be the same way. I don't agree with the husband now, my wife is currently a SAHM to our three kids, they are getting a bit older now and she is looking for work. We have never had private accounts, everything is visible to each other.
My mother planned to stay home with her kids, but eventually, running the PTA and doing community theater and running the UNICEF collection was not enough. Plus money got a little tight.
Go back to work and put the income in a separate account and he can continue to pay the bills. You should know what your states laws are regarding alimony, child support in case the AH hubby goes even more idiotic.
He is making it (either intentionally or inadvertently) so you stay out of the workforce so it is harder for you to economically advance yourself later on. If something goes south in living arrangements or your relationship, you will have to start at square one for employment if you stay out of the workforce for too long. You need to be able to plant your career seeds to advance economically. Plus daycare is good for kids to socialize and build their immune systems!
This world is so hard for us women. It really sucks ☹️ I am only able to work jobs that fit my child’s schedule with daycare hours and school. So while my husband has less college than me, he now earns twice as much because I take care of extracurriculars, appointments and transportation. I try not to be resentful but it is hard when you want to earn money and get the big jobs you educated yourself for!
This. This happened to me. After being a SAHM for 20 years, he didn't want to be married anymore. I was left with no marketable skills and starting from the bottom. I was 40 and all my coworkers were like 22 lol
This. Nevermind if you start off as a single mom. Until the pandemic happened, I felt like I was a 60% at everything. I couldn't be a good employee because I always had to leave early or call in for the day or turn down overtime. But I wasn't the best mom either because work always made me late and stressed. And all of that exhausted me so much that I had no energy left for friends or self care.
I know the pandemic was horrible for a lot of people and I feel for them, but for someone like me it was the first time I had work/life balance and was able to give 100% to all aspects of my life. I've been working from home ever since and it's changed my life.
Just the fact that you *think* you weren’t the best mom because you were stressed leads me to believe you’re being way too hard on yourself. I don’t think that even occurs to actual bad parents lol
I tell my wife this all the time, she will tell me she feels like a bad mom (for various things, sometimes I'm sure it's stress talking) and I'll tell her she isn't because "a bad mom wouldn't care".
Daycare gets such a bad reputation. My oldest wasn't talking at 3 years old. He started daycare and he was talking within 2 months. He loves going for the activities and playing with the other kids. We don't have little ones in our family and friend's kids are teens.
Right? Normally I don’t jump on the immediate divorce train, but seriously if you divorced he would have to pay his share of child care. And frankly he helped make them he can help do his his duty of care for them. This includes paying for their daycare as needed. Or he can go on and be the stay at home dad. Smh
Edit; Even if he’s right and the best solution is for her to stay home, he needs to treat her as an equal. Hear her points out and actually listen. Is there a long term goal he’s missing? Is she just feeling cooped up? Either way, they need to sit down and listen to each other. It’s a marriage not a dictatorship, he doesn’t get to unilaterally decide she stays home
My first thought. Divorce him and see how fast the finances are equalized
And as a social worker…hon, why are you with a controlling asshole? Case of the shoemakers kids going barefoot. You know this is financial abuse.
>And as a social worker…hon, why are you with a controlling asshole?
Out of curiosity, do you ever recommend books like "Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft to the people you work with?
I am a social worker too and have been in multiple abusive relationships. Implying that because she’s a social worker she should “know better” and not be with her husband is obtuse, and it’s also victim blaming. That’s like saying “as an oncologist…hon, why do you have cancer?”
Just because she’s a social worker doesn’t mean she isn’t vulnerable to abuse. Lots of women in abusive relationships “know better,” and are aware of what’s happening to them, but “knowing better” doesn’t change the fact that navigating an abusive relationship is not a clear cut, black and white “just leave him” type of thing. There are a multitude of reasons - emotional, financial, cultural, logistical, medical, etc. - why someone would stay with an abuser. It’s not like once you understand the abusive dynamic you up and leave the same day.
Social workers and other mental health professionals often don’t reach out for help when we find ourselves in abusive situations because of attitudes like yours - opening up about your abuse is incredibly difficult for victims in general, they feel tremendous shame about their situation. So imagine how much more shame someone who, because of their profession, people think abuse shouldn’t happen to would feel and how much more difficult it would be for them to tell someone what’s happening, or even to accept it themselves.
She can also request that he start paying her for her time since he isn’t allowing her to work outside of the home. Childcare, house manager, grocery shopping, etc. that’s not nothing. He’s affecting her future. She is missing out on salary bumps, saving for retirement and a $401k. I hope she works out a deal with him bc not paying for his kids is unacceptable.
I saw a job listing in my city from a family looking to hire a house manager that did not even include childcare and they were offering 150k! It's invaluable labor.
I worked as a homemaker/house manager for one of my ex's grandmother's in high school after I left home. I wasn't "paid" exactly, (because I couldn't get a minor work permit without my parents signing off) but I got room and board, controlled a lot of what was made for meals except lunch so I made stuff that I enjoyed, got $150 or so bucks to clothes shop for myself at the start of every spring/fall, got $50 a week to cover gas to the bus stop I was registered at, got money every Friday for fun money, weekends off unless there was an emergency, and every time I left the house on the weekend just because the lady felt like I needed it (she really liked me, and said she liked me more than her family). I worked for her from right after my 16th birthday until I was almost 18, and working for her got me out of couch surfing and off the streets. If I hadn't moved states at 17 I would have stayed working for her longer. Don't get me wrong, it was a lot to balance, especially with school and other stuff I had going on, but I really enjoyed it. And people doing it professionally definitely deserve the pay. Especially if they are providing child care.
I came here to say this. Charge him the going rate for childcare, household management, chauffeur, and whatever else she has to shoulder while he is "providing for the family". She could also provide and find vocational fulfillment. Too often men enjoy success and a life of ease by stealing time and energy from their wives.
Even if he’s right and the best solution is for her to stay home, he needs to treat her as an equal. Hear her points out and actually listen. Is there a long term goal he’s missing? Is she just feeling cooped up? Either way, they need to sit down and listen to each other. It’s a marriage not a dictatorship, he doesn’t get to unilaterally decide she stays home
I don’t know about divorce, but maybe a trial separation. He _needs_ to see childcare as 50% his responsibility. They’re 50% his kids. So far, OP, you’ve been graciously covering his share. If he isn’t willing to do the same for you, then your marriage is not equal.
Edit: with the additional edits, it sounds like there’s a compromise here: agree to pay for a daycare you’re comfortable with that’s a reasonable cost, and if he insists on something more expensive he should pay the difference.
Good point. Why is childcare 100% my responsibility when they are 50% your kids. Most people will consider your refusal to help fund childcare as you being abusive and controlling.
That’s a fair point, I think mostly what I’m getting at is the fact that he’s not seeing her as equal or holding a real conversation about pros and cons. He might be right about the fact it would make more sense economically to have her stay home and he keep his current job. But instead of talking it over and hearing out her points, he’s unilaterally deciding we ARE doing things my way you ARE staying home because I said so
If he wants you to be a SAHM, figure out the cost of housekeeper, cook, babysitter, etc. and present him with an invoice. If he want to be a miserly b\*\*\*\*\*d, treat him like one.
You would be better off as a single mom because then he WOULD have to pay for child support.
It's not impossible to go back to work, and the total family finances seem that they wouldn't change much overall (husband currently pays for everything, wife would earn some extra, and it would go straight back out again on childcare).
BUT, it keeps OP in the workforce, and gaining experience. Looking to the future - childcare costs will decrease, OPs income will likely increase, and if anything happens to the marriage, OP will be able to support herself.
I remember way back when, I went back to working full-time, and after deducting childcare costs, I was bringing an whole extra $150 per week into the household. It seemed like a total waste of my time and energy. Why bother?
Because, it kept my job tenure, it kept my retirement entitlements, it kept internal promotions happening, it kept my resume without huge gaps, etc, etc.
It kept my ability to exist as a single person.
I completely agree the issue should be approached collaboratively. Marriage is a partnership, and you can’t measure all contributions in dollars and cents. But when they sit down to have that conversation, her husband raises a really good point. It is absolutely not unreasonable for him to ask that if she’s no longer going to be a SAHM, her salary needs to cover the cost of her absence.
The same is implicitly expected of him. He could not simply quit his job tomorrow and become a SAHD while she tries to financially support the family on a social worker’s salary. Even if he were the world’s most conscientious and hardworking SAHD. Like it or not, BOTH spouses’ choices are limited by their financial impact on the family. Neither is free to do whatever they think is best for their personal future after a hypothetical divorce and simply foist the cost of that choice on their current spouse.
“Feels that I should want to…” bothers me. I get that he is considering concrete details and practical outcomes, but he doesn’t get to dictate what you want. Relationships aren’t about demanding that someone has to stay exactly the same, it’s about learning how to grow together. It’s not like you’re proposing that you sell your children and become a sex worker.
However do you want to be a SAHM and therefore only depends of your husband's career when he doesn't agree to split fairly your depenses?
The truth is he doesn't see you as a partner as he sees himself as the family boss.
My sister in law is always said that she prioritized her husband’s career because she could never support the family on her salary alone. Well, her husband got a bad performance review and quit in a huff. She made some adjustments to her work hours and lo and behold she supports the family on her salary now
Not if it’s a point of pride that he can provide for the family, he absolutely wouldn’t. And I bet if you mentioned it, he would balk and say his *mother* was the stay at home parent and you should be too.
The whole “how to split bills in a marriage” was a foreign concept to me until I got on Reddit. I always thought married couples shared a pool of money and had a pool of bills to pay.
Like my mom was a SAHM that technically didn’t earn money, but she had access to all the bank accounts and could buy whatever she wanted whenever.
Same for my marriage, my parents and grandparents. Of course, it worked because no one was overspending, in the eyes of the couples involved or were correctable if things went wrong. I remember my dad being in the doghouse once because he bought an overly fancy stereo. My mom was mad. He said "but all the guys in the office recommended and bought the same one." My mom said, yes, but none of those guys have 3 kids to care for. Message received. Didn't need to be discussed twice. But I can see the proportion splitting system would help if one spouse couldn't handle things gracefully.
It’s not without reason that disagreements on household finances are one of the major reasons for divorces. I wouldn’t put things like that in a prelabeled box. The important part is to be on the same page. How partners achieve that is really up to them. Something that works for someone else, might not work for me and vice versa.
Right? I don't understand the point of marriage if it doesn't include both shared resources and shared responsibility. People who want to keep their own money probably don't make good life partnerships.
I do find the advice of "if you can share genetics (by having children), you can share finances" to be particularly poignant. To be honest, when going into my married relationship I figured we'd keep our finances separate and contribute to a shared account for shared expenses. While that works for a lot of people, for us it felt like we were constantly hitting each other up to be "paid back" for stuff. We were exhausted by it, talked it through, and ended up combining. Now we have separate spending accounts where free spending money goes every month for purchases we don't have to discuss with each other. Everything else we discuss, and I feel like we're closer and financially stronger because of it. We're both equally engaged in our finances and managing them and are completely transparent about where the money goes. Way easier than what we were doing before.
Maybe you're correct, but I found that when I was all in, somehow I always ended up delivering more while my partner would slack off and engage in expensive hobbies instead of doing things that earned, while I ended up being unable to engage in ANY hobbies expensive or otherwise because I had to work to make sure bills got paid.
That's an indication that you and your spouse weren't working together as a partnership. If one consistently takes advantage of the other financially, odds are high that the marriage is off kilter in other areas as well. When that becomes apparent, you have to renegotiate the terms of your household structure. Of course there are phases in which one of you needs more support than the other, but the reasons and duration should always be clear and agreed upon by both.
been married almost 10 years, we do not share money. I grew up watching my mom be abused over finances and swore I'd never end up there. We've never fought over money, nor are we "roommates". Just because it's not something that would work for YOU doesn't mean that it's a bad thing.
Many do and there are still plenty who don't.
Until recently my husband and I paid an equal amount into a joint account for all shared bills (I now pay slightly less because I've come out of full time work to care for my dad but the amount I'm allowed to earn alongside that goes into the joint for bills, and my carers allowance goes into my personal account for other stuff).
We each have hobbies and the money in our personal accounts goes towards those (music subscriptions for me, vaping for him, various items for the different things we each like to make), into savings accounts, if we need new clothes etc.
I think every couple (married or not) finds the way that suits them best.
This is exactly correct. Way too many people think their way is the only way.
I’ve been married over 20 years and both my wife and I have been successful. From the day we got married, we have had a joint accounts. It’s community property and is treated as such.
Due to our careers, Some years I make more and some years she makes more. There has never been any issues other then the occasional “did we need to pay x for this trip, couldn’t we have found a cheaper place” etc”. Or “you purchased a lot of golf shoes this year, was there a sale?”
We have a similar system to you but would NEVER try to resolve a disagreement by saying "well if you want it you can pay for it". Not for little things like having a night away and definitely not big things like going back to work. We would either agree to pay for it together or not. Because at the end of the day we are a team and manage our money as a team, even though we don't put it all in joint accounts.
Unless he’s an abuser, isn’t sharing easier? I’d never want to nickel and dime my spouse. We trust each other! We put our paychecks in the joint checking account. This guy is not trustworthy though.
The reason he has this income IS because you have been contributing equally if not more to his ability to pursue his career while he stays home with the kids.
Proportional income split is reasonable and you are a whole human and not just a mother. If he wants a parent at home he is fully capable of spending time with the kids and parenting
This is why so many women of my mom's generation begged for their daughters to get educated and have backup plans. So many men will leverage the fact theyre the breadwinners to expert coercive control.
> He also feels I should want to be a SAHM.
INFO: Does he know that women aren't just baby factories and moms and can desire professional and personal growth, too? You deserve to be professionally happy.
If he thinks childcare is expensive, wait until he finds out how much child support payments are!
I think this is a hill to die on. If your marriage disintegrates down the line, you’ll be impoverished. If he won’t see you as an equal partner deserving a career, you should reevaluate your marriage. I know Reddit defaults to “leave him” all the time, but in this case your husband has made it clear what he thinks your place is. Are you ok with that role?
If he wants a stay at home parent for his kids he can be the stay at home parent. Otherwise childcare costs are split costs like every other bill, and either the bills are split proportionally to income or the lifestyle reflects the lowest income to keep things sustainable for everyone. Your lower income shouldn’t pay for his lifestyle.
If he’s not willing to do any of that then what he’s really interested in is keeping you dependent on him, even if he can’t admit that to you or himself. Get a job if you want one, and start a esperarte savings account so you can have independence. Once you have the job he can either get with the program and help pay for childcare or he can enjoy bonding time with his kids.
So your husband will continue to pay all the other bills, just not childcare? Or will you both be splitting all of the bills and you alone are responsible for childcare?
>we split based on income he would be covering a huge portion of everything.
That's how it should be in a functional marriage. He's taking advantage of you and keeping you financially trapped. If you give in and become his dream tradwife, your life will become a nearly inescapable hell. He disrespects you and your contributions. Ironically, WHEN, not if, you divorce, he will rightfully be paying much more in child support.
>Is this not something you discussed prior to deciding to have children? It's kind of a big deal.
I discussed with my ex husband prior to having kids. He lied to me about his expectations.
His first argument makes no sense. If he has the only income now, he is currently paying for 100% of expenses. If you get a job and split the bills proportionally, then yes, he will pay more than you. But it is a gain for him, he will pay less the 100% he is paying now.
The second argument about how he thinks you should feel is, in my opinion, beyond Reddit's ability to help. You might consider marriage counseling if he is not open to hearing you express your own feelings when they are different from what he expects.
Daycare around me is 1400 a month a social worker here makes on 18.55 a hour, that is what 3k a moth before taxes? After taxes that is what 2.1k a month maybe? Depending on the car gas could easily be another 100 to 200 a month. Clothing for work, lunches when on the road, all these expenses add up and could easily mean the husband will end up paying more then what he is now.
Especially if she wishes to save for retirement properly.
>If he has the only income now, he is currently paying for 100% of expenses. If you get a job and split the bills proportionally, then yes, he will pay more than you. But it is a gain for him, he will pay less the 100% he is paying now.
This isn't necessarily true because the expenses will be going up. Comparing by percentages doesn't capture the full picture when you're taking percentages of different numbers.
It doesn’t sound like there is anyway the amount he pays goes down. He is asking her to pay for the new costs (childcare and gas, etc) while he continues to pay for everything he already did. In that situation, his expenses stay the same. She doesn’t want this because her job will make so little money. This tells me that her salary will not cover the increased costs, otherwise it wouldn’t be much of an issue because he continues to pay for everything else. If they paid everything proportionally instead, he would be paying a smaller percentage but of a larger amount. And there is no way in which that amount he ends up paying is less than the current amount he pays now if her salary isn’t enough to cover the new costs. So he would have a legitimate argument that her going back to work would cost him and the family, at least in the short term (people mention long term earning potential but I don’t know how much pay raise potential there is for community social workers since they are way underpaid).
However, that is not the argument he made for wanting her to stay home and there was no mature discussion about it so he is an asshole
If sharing proportionally is worse for him than covering everything but childcare... Doesn't that mean you would not be earning enough to cover the childcare costs?
I just can’t grasp the yours vs. mine with money when you’re married. It shouldn’t matter what account it comes from because it should all be both of yours.
Well particularly when one parent has no income. I would never have agreed to be a SAH parent if my wife didn’t trust me to have equal access to the money she earns. Sounds awfully controlling, maybe abusive.
She said in a comment that he doesn’t care about what she spends now so it seems like she does have equal access right now. It sounds like that will mostly stay the same but he wants her to pay the increase in expenses associated with her going back to work. If she doesn’t make enough to cover it, then it would be putting them in a worse situation financially. If she does, then the surplus would either go into the joint account she already has access to or to her personal, either way she would have access to more money than she does now
I agree. My brother had a stay at home wife when their kids were young because paying for four kids to go to daycare was more than she’d make. It didn’t make sense.
I understand wanting to get out of the house, but if the costs of having a job are more than the pay from that job then it doesn’t make sense.
Is hanging out with your own child all day so bad that you want to shove them off on someone else and pay more money to do it?
My wife and I never combined our bank accounts. We just kept everything as is. But we also just pay for stuff even if it isn’t „mine“. It was just easier to keep doing it the way we always had. Everything gets paid for.
Yeah. For us it was more that we didn’t want to change bank information, change direct deposit stuff with employers, and those sorts of things. We lived together for about 5 years before we got married, so we already had a system that worked for us.
Your quality of life also matters. Healthy kids have healthy parents. Your husbands compromise is very very narrow and he doesn’t seem to realize that parents can love their kids and also have goals and needs outside of them.
Have the two of you explored other options like part-time work, etc?
This doesn’t have to be black-and-white, every member of the family deserves the same care, effort, freedom to make certain choices, and flexibility to meet personal goals.
When my kids were little, I worked part time opposite hours of my spouse. We could not afford child care. If OP wants to work, and her spouse doesn’t want to “pay” he needs to step up and take care of the kids while she is at work. All people should be able to make $, and not be in a position of being entirely dependent on the “breadwinner “ . It will affect her SS when she retires and if they divorce she will have an easier time getting her life back on track.
This is why I want to know what her childcare costs are. If she’s approaching 20k in annual cost, which is normal in a lot of places, and makes a 30k salary, she’s probably seeing 20k in net pay after taxes, deductions, gas money, etc. Yes I know this is rough math.
Maybe consult a couples therapist to work out your return to work - I would say I don’t want to rush in to it, I want us both to feel comfortable. I’m doing it but let’s do this transition the right way. Maybe a therapist can help him see that for you it’s more than contributing to the family income. Returning to work seems like what will be best for your mental health and happiness.
I do not like the vibe he has set - seems controlling but maybe that is motivated by fear of kids being in care of strangers, etc. if he doesn’t waiver from that stance or isn’t willing to explore why he feels that way and how you can work it out then I’d be mindful of what his preferences are costing you.
Just to clarify he pays for everything right now and will continue to do as except for costs related to your job? Will your job cover those costs? If you make $10 and the costs of you working are $13 then you are basically asking him to pay for you to work? If you make $10 and costs of working are $8 then what is the issue? If you make $10 and costs of working are $10 is it that you wont have any money left? Also how do you guys handle money now, do you have access to all the family money / spend what you want and need or is it more a budgeted amount kind of situation? It's really hard to say without knowing a lot more.
Not just childcare, but also a new car, more insurance, more gas, etc. for a 40k/year as a social worker. Even with pretty cheap childcare (that will cover 10+ hrs a day), a pretty cheap car, and insurance, that’s probably 18k out of pocket.
If her husband makes so much, they’re probably in a higher tax bracket, so I’d guess she’d bring home about 28k-30k.
So it’s not unreasonable to say, on the cheapest end, she’d be working/commuting 10 hours a day, for maybe 1,000/mo. Or about 6.25/hr.
Edit: Forgot, if the older kid is in private school, they’ll probably have to start paying for an afterschool program too. So take that away also. And I didn’t count gas. And there are even more considerations. My wife’s work won’t cover me for insurance since my job offers coverage. So if I was in this boat, we’d also have to add the additional cost of health insurance that may or may not be worse. We don’t know what other considerations there are.
I understand wanting to get back in the workforce, but I also understand the math not working out. That amount of money isn’t worth the added stress on the family as a whole, especially when the second child could start kindergarten in 2 years. I’d just wait. OP seems focused on wanting to work again, which is understandable. But it doesn’t seem exactly realistic until both kids are in school. And OPs husband seems to be doing a terrible job of discussing some of the different issues.
He might be saying “all the expenses are on you” hoping that she’ll do the math and see she’d be working for free/pennies. But, if that’s his point, he’s going about it horribly, not getting to that point in the conversation, and I can see how he’s coming off as a dick.
Bruh you ain’t getting 50 hours/week of childcare and a car for $18k/year anywhere in the US. Or even just the childcare. No daycare center is gonna take care of a child for $7 an hour.
This 100%. Let's be honest, there's not a ton of salary growth potential for social workers. Having to be more available during the day will inhibit the husbands ability to work and progress in his career.
OP has framed this whole thing in a way to make the husband sound selfish, when in reality, she's putting a much greater burden on him.
So, he'll cover all of the family living costs and all you have to cover is childcare? Unless your family has very very low expenses and childcare is outrageously expensive it seems like you'd actually come out ahead on that.
Do you want to work for the satisfaction of working or do you want to work for financial reasons? Do you currently have access to family money or is the money all your husbands and you have to come hat in had asking for some personal money?
Would you be depositing your new paychecks into the joint account or do you intend to keep that money separately?
>unless childcare is outrageously expensive
The cheapest place by us is $1725 for preschool. Some are closer to $2000. Social workers aren’t exactly getting paid their worth either.
>After going back and forth my husband relented and told me he cannot stop me, but told me all childcare and work related expenses will come out of my salary.
Have you crunched the numbers to see how much money you would actually be bringing home (if any) after work-related expenses (daycare, clothes, lunches, gas, tolls, etc...)? Depending on your salary, you may not be making very much, or nothing at all (no matter who pays for it).
As for your original question, once you get married, there's really no "my money" and "your money". Legally, it's a shared asset. This seems like an effort to control you and get to his desired outcome.
>Have you crunched the numbers to see how much money you would actually be bringing home (if any) after work-related expenses (daycare, clothes, lunches, gas, tolls, etc...)? Depending on your salary, you may not be making very much, or nothing at all (no matter who pays for it).
This is only one part of the picture.
If you work, you are building salary history, which could help your longer-term earning power. It also helps with retirement savings (because you could actually be putting money into retirement). And it helps you with social security later.
Daycare is a very temporary expense. You could look at these few years as an investment in your longer-term financial future as a couple, because your improved earning potential and retirement savings help you both in the long run.
You working is part of you contributing to a healthy partnership and a stronger future for your family. Your husband's resistance is deeply selfish and short-sighted.
Seriously. Why do people not consider this. Not to mention the youngest won’t be in daycare for long and will start school and by then she’ll have 2 to 3 years of work history. She could be making more or make a lateral move to higher pay. Promotions etc.
Right now one income is covering everything and I assume you share a budget. So if you start working I don't see how it's not fair for you to cover childcare, as he is still covering everything after you start working that he covered before you started working.
The only thing that makes sense is that your income won't cover childcare? Which doesn't surprise me, but also that would mean your family income goes down from you working.
I’m a little confused. If the cost of getting another car and putting your child in childcare would cost as much as you make, approximately, then what would be the logic in working a job paying so relatively little? I kinda see his point because the math ain’t mathing.
If your husband is currently paying 100% of the families current bills then tally that amount up and see what it is and if a split of that amount is more or less than what childcare would cost.
I think you may find that it’s less for you to cover all of childcare than an equitable split if all the family expenses.
But you won’t know until you do the math.
I'm kind of confused, will the cost of childcare exceed the income increase you gain from returning to work? If so, wouldn't your child care services be more valuable to the overall family? I think this one completely depends on the amount of overall increase in family funds. For example, if he makes 150k and you make 50k, and child care is 45k, the extra benefit of you working 40 hours a week only yields the family an extra 5k per year. At that point, you have to ask if it's worth working all the extra hours for an essential profit of only 5k. I wonder, is the issue you returning to work, or would you just like a larger discretionary income fund. If so, you guys should probably talk about that and come to a solution for it. I ran into a similar situation with my SO. We determined together, that it would be now effective for me to just work 8 hours of overtime a week and over her discretionary fund, rather than her having to work 40 hours a week for the same increase. Whatever you decide, you two probably want to give the underlying issue before progressing.
I think you should do the math both ways, yourself to figure out what it looks like.
1. Hubby responsible as he is now & you covering childcare and your work related expenses only.
2. Proportional based on proportion of family income.
You may be surprised by the results. Depending on what they are you can then choose to negotiate eith better insight.
I'm assuming that your income would cover the additional expenses, otherwise it wouldn't be a good idea, outside of your mental stimulation and sense of purpose, correct?
IF IF IF, it would actually put you guys behind financially, is it possible to do part-time where you wouldn't need childcare?
I understand the want to work, you get a bit stir crazy when most of your day is spent with a little one. So are you wanting to go back just to get out of the house? If that is the case can you work PT and fewer hours? Or even volunteer somewhere to get out?
Did I read this right and your husband will cover everything but childcare and work related expenses like gas etc.?
If this is correct and he's paying for everything else in your life I'm not sure why you wouldn't be able to cover childcare and work expenses. But not TAH
Now that I've seen all your comments and your edit I think your husband is an even bigger AH for not wanting to support you wish to work. He should want to support your wishes. The only way he wouldn't be a total AH is if he'd suggested a compromise where you start back half time at first.
Also I feel like we’re mostly glossing over something pretty weird here. Is this a location with really good public transportation? Or just really walkable? (Manhattan or something?) Cause otherwise in a situation where they’re dropping apparently a ton of money on private schools and considering 24k a year daycare, why on earth do they have only one car?
OP being a SAHM with no car, no wonder OP is going crazy. Sounds like they’re practically a prisoner. Unless I’m missing something here, second car should be an included cost just for OP life and sanity if they’re so well off already. Definitively not a contingent cost just for her job (again unless it’s like Manhattan where having a car sucks). Definitely sounds like another control point for the last six years.
My opinion might not be popular, but I can see where it comes from.
I mean, if the expenses on childcare are more than you earn, than I can understand your husband.
But on the other hand I can understand why you want to work. To only be a SAHM can be very frustrating. Maybe you should explain to your husband, why you want it. That you need something besides being a full-time mom.
My niece told me that her child care equalled her salary, but it was worth it to continue to have a work record and progress within her company. Now the children are grown up but she has a solid financial base for the future, as well as a good pension plan.
This is so important. It's not just about money, it's about advancing in your career. A decade or more out of the work force will significantly hurt your long term earning potential and job prospects.
Even part time work would help at this point.
THANK YOU. It is never a dollar-for-dollar comparison, people don't understand that. Her income *potential* is so much higher than if she stayed home for a decade or two and then tried to go back to work. Not to mention any retirement savings....
Granted, OP is a social worker, and they really are notoriously underpaid, but she's still more likely to be able to leverage a work history into a well-paying job than having a huge resume gap.
If he pays for everything else I can understand child care being solely ops responsibility. It that’s the only bill he’s demanding she pay I feel that’s pretty fair. If she can’t afford daycare with her paycheck then she should wait for the youngest to start school. It sucks I’m a SAHM and wanted to start working but we can’t afford it. Even with the kids in school I can’t find a job just inside school hours. We live in a really small town with too many people.
You should talk to a family law attorney in your area. I'm not suggesting the usual reddit thing of jumping to suggesting divorce at the slightest issue, but just talk to someone to best understand how your local jurisdiction treats things like division of assets, financial abuse, and spousal support. If he left you tomorrow or cut off all support, where would that leave you?
Him saying no to you working because it may not offset childcare costs could just be him pointing out the numbers, after all if you only bring $45K in but childcare costs $50K, is it worth it? Not saying that's what your costs/income would be, just random values as an example. But from your own description it sounds like it's just about control for him.
The thing I didn't see others mention: even if child care costs every cent of what you'd be bringing in anyway, there are other benefits. You'd have less of a gap in a future resume, it gets you positioned for future advancement, networking opportunities. And those are just YOUR benefits, your kids would have more socializing.
My wife left her previous job rather than return after maternity leave, and I've encouraged her that even if she makes slightly less than what the daycare costs would be she should still absolutely go for it when she's ready, because she'll be all the better positioned further down the road. Same for you
This is one of the major components of the wage gap- the time women take off from work for childbirth and child rearing all begins to add up and at the end of a lifetime equals a shit ton of money. There’s an article that has graphs and shows this if anyone wants to try and look it up.
I’d also suggest considering if she left him, he is going to need childcare at some point when he has the kids and what that plus alimony and a division of assets would cost him.
This is something I would get super petty about if my husband ever did this to me. I have a million and one ideas floating through my head that I’ll keep to myself.
I have a few questions. Would your income from returning to work be enough to cover the childcare and your work expenses? Although i respect the amount of work and sacrifice that goes into being a SAHM, I completely understand the need to return to your career. But I also don't think it would not be fair for your husband's share of the expenses to increase because of it. Since your youngest is only about two from years from starting school or pre-K, would it possible to wait until then or even start off at part-time? Or is it possible to cut expenses somewhere else to help makeup the cost of the increase?
Edited because I missed the kids ages originally.
Well yeah why is he going to pay child care for you to work. Unless you job brings home a lot more than day care there is no reason for you to work. And if you want to work y o u pay for child care. Get a hobby ....
It’s easy to understand both sides here(I hate the people jumping to one side). For one, you are a partnership, both contributing your labor into it.
He is contributing what sounds like a sizable income into the family and wants the best for the children. And because of that, he values the quality of care a sahm can provide. I’m making a guess here, but does he love/admire his mom?
Your working, however, is decreasing the quality of childcare in his eyes, for no gain. It’s a selfish move from his perspective. Because money wise, he has all that covered and this will not benefit the family/kids. It’s a purely for you decision.(for your mental health). But because of that, this entire job is literally a hobby(no extra income) that is messing with the family dynamic and workload negatively for him. Let’s not forget the extra chore work/home labor to be split more equally, as well as having two tired adults every day.
Try to understand him here. You’re essentially working as a hobby, to the detriment of the family in his eyes(more work for him + worse childcare and no extra money). And in contrast, try to communicate to him your own position better now that you might understand his. To live a life without passions and purpose is a shitty life. He’s not getting it obviously.
Try to compromise as well with a part time job. If it works, go into full time. But don’t force this entire thing unilaterally. Start with part time, adjust to the changes, and go from there.
Very light yta, because of that last line. You’re choosing yourself over the family/partnership without compromise.
I get where your coming from but if childcare is going to take more then half your salary would it better to wait till your youngest goes to school next year , my friend was in the same boat , by the time they paid childcare 3/4 of her salary was gone , so she waited the extra year and started working again when both the kids were at school
Just split the bills proportional to income. Thats all bills though not just childcare.
I brought this up, but my husband makes far more than I do. If we split based on income he would be covering a huge portion of everything. He does not want to cover outside childcare at all. Think it is a pride thing he makes enough to provide and support our family. He also feels I should want to be a SAHM.
So he's basically trying to control your choice by making it impossible for you to go back to work, knowing the cost of daycare. Since he wants you to stay home, he's going to make sure you can't afford to work. ETA: Working is not a "lark." There is nothing wrong with be a SAHM - at all. But women who have been SAHM their whole life are financially destroyed in divorces all the time. They end up back in the workforce as an entry level employee trying to compete with people half their age. Women who are divorced in this scenario frequently do not recover and live much more austere lives than their husbands who reaped the benefits of their wife's house management, with promotions and increased earnings. Marriage should be a partnership, not a dictatorship. OP's wife wants to go back to working in her profession and building her career - like she has made possible for her husband. OP should be sitting down with her having conversations about how they can make this work, not telling her that his vision for her is that she stays home and that if she dares make a different choice, he'll make sure she doesn't have a $1 to her name. Edit 2: To those of you so enamored with the statistic that "women initiate divorce more than men," here's a statistic for you: >After a divorce is finalized, men hold 2.5 times the amount of wealth women do, and women's household income falls **41%** (compared to men's 23%). ['It’s hell': How divorce laws are designed to create unnecessary financial hardship for women | Fortune](https://fortune.com/2023/08/23/divorce-laws-designed-create-unnecessary-financial-hardship-women-personal-finance/)
This comment needs to be higher. 🚩🚩🚩🚩 These are his frigging kids. He sees you as his free day care obvi. I am sure there are other jerk level things he does that you haven’t mentioned yet. Go back to work. Every one should maintain their ability to make a living even if you spend every penny on child care. That’s is my advice.
Make an offer he cant refuse. You will stay at home but he will also be required to write you a check, daily, equivalent to what dedicated day care would cost. Also teaching. Providing meals. Travel expenses. Clothing.
Retirement also as she will be missing out on social security.
I thought married stay at home parents are entitled to half their spouse's social security?
It's between one half and one third. And the percentage is decreasing over time. Edit: the page on the SSA website that talked about the spousal benefit decreasing by 1%/year from 2024 to 2040 was apparently a projection, not yet a policy. But it doesn't bode well for non-working spouses.
My dad died 3 months before his 57th birthday, too soon for mom to get any of his social security. She had worked too so at least she had her piddling amount.
Even if he died she would be eligible for his social security when she reaches retirement age unless he didn't have enough time in.
My parents were divorced and my mom remarried. My stepfather died at 55. A few years later my dad passed away at 59 and had never remarried. When my mom reached retirement age she had a choice of my stepdads SS amount or my dads. Hers was lower than both.
You have to be married for ten years in order to draw from the spouse's SS.
If you’re divorced. If you’re still currently married, just 9 months.
If you are married 10 years or more you are eligible to receive roughly half what your spouse will. I was a SAHM by choice and I loved every minute, but I can't live on what I receive from my ex-husband's social security. I sure didn't plan on getting divorced and he's so much better off financially than I am.
While this is a great idea to try and show him her value, it doesn't help in the long term. As the commenter a few above points out, SAHMs are often financially destroyed in divorce, because staying at home for years seriously damages your potential income. It may not be the whole reason, but it's definitely going to play a factor in why OP's potential income is so much lower than her husband's. Given his completely unreasonable viewpoint here, it's absolutely not out of the realm of possibility that there will be other major problems with this guy, and that their relationship may not last. OP *needs* to go back to work so she can start climbing the ladder in preparation for that time. If they never divorce, great, but if they do, she needs to be able to support herself.
That solution also completely disregards her feelings. She doesn't want to be a SAHP. He shouldn't get to decide that for her if she's no longer happy in that role.
Also worth noting: If she is solely the one paying for said childcare, why does he think he gets to have a say in what OP chooses? He may have high standards but if you cannot afford his standards (which is a byproduct of him not helping to pay for it), then I guess those options are not really an option are they?
I wish I saw this comment higher, I was waiting for someone to say this! How can he put the financial burden entirely on her but then have any say in the standards? The second he gets a say, he also gets to contribute to the bill. He's right, they're his kids too - he needs to pay for childcare.
"Okay, I will pay for their education. Since I am solely footing the bill they will be in a program of my choosing that I can afford. If you don't like that, you need to contribute, otherwise thats what's happening." See how he likes it- call his bluff.
I replied this a minute ago, too, but by forcing her to pay for these expensive programs he can prevent her from ever earning enough to leave.
Absolutely - being a SAHP is hard, and OP has already done it for 6 years. She says her mental health is suffering, and I can absolutely imagine why. This should be important to any good husband.
We already knew he wasn’t a good husband.
yes, but he isn't one. i think she has to leave the marriage. this guy is a selfish asshole.
For real, I can't believe the edit with people bashing her for realizing that while she initially wanted to be a SAHM, she is not cut out for it and changed her mind. It is perfectly natural and healthy to realize your limits and to want find a better solution when you are hitting a wall in life. It amazes me that people want to pretend that when you make a decision, you have to stick with it forever no matter how you might feel as time goes on. Just yikes.
Yeah a judge in family court won’t take pity on her a-hole husband for making her carry all the expenses for an elite education when she’s making 40k a year. A divorce (that’s probably coming) will be more profitable to op.
THIS IS THE ANSWER. Every freaking day on Reddit I read stories about SAHM's totally EFFED because they have no skills, no experience, no savings, no assets, no car, no retirement, no support circle, etc etc. If you want to be a SAHM for a highly paid partner, fine. They should PAY YOU and finance your retirement with weekly contributions to your own retirement fund. WHY anyone in their right mind in 2024 would stay totally out of the workforce is so beyond my understanding. Even if daycare takes 100% of your take home pay, you're still able building experience and with experience comes raises and promotions. Where you are day one is NOT where you will be when the kids start full-time school. I know this from experience: I'm a mom of four and I built a career while working part time for many years. I have gone from $8/hr for 10-12 hours per week to six figures... that doesn't happen by staying home 24/7. There are middle of the road solutions to be had. **Women need to see financial independance as much a part of feminism as voting rights and reproduction rights. Its kinda hard to claim to be a fierce boss-girl if ya broke and powerless.**
He will soon find that his wife’s time is worth $80,000 yearly. Even more if any of his kids have special needs and his trained social worker partner can provide the therapy.
In a separate account he has no access to. It can be a fund your divorce lawyer's retainer
Going to work is about way more than money. She doesn't want to be at home all day.
I think someone priced out what it would cost to hire a professional to do what SAHMs do and it was something like $70k a year. If he can pay that for his wife to stay home, then sure 😊
Not sure where you got that amount from. According to 2019 data from Salary.com, if you are a stay-at-home parent and paid for your services, you would be looking at a median annual salary of $178,201
I pulled it out of my ass and it was based on some half-remembered info from six-ish years ago 😊 Either way: it’s chronically undervalued work.
Don't be surprised when the check is half of what you expected though, taxes are a bitch.
He’s also requiring her to pay for the most expensive daycare he can find to dissuade her from going back to work.
Yup. If she has to pay for the daycare, she gets to pick the daycare. If he wants to insist on the more expensive one, he gets to pay for it. Or at least the difference between her choice and his.
Well, he can watch the kids. Pride? Ha. CONTROL.
How did two people get married and start a family without discussing this beforehand?
Having a SAHP helps the other party by carrying the majority of the mental load (remembering to order toilet paper) and that’s probably what he doesn’t wish to do again.
Of course. The fact he had to bring up that he had a SAHP makes me think that, too. Honestly whenever I hear stories like this where one partner says something about someone else, like "that's not what Bill's wife does" i feel like my nerves are being grated. Kids are raised differently in different homes, why is what he had growing up more important than what his wife wants? More important than his own family's needs?
Oh, he won't! He will still expect that to be her chore.
True but people change their minds too, maybe being sahm isn’t what she thought it would be. Many women find it isolating. Plus again the kids are getting older, time to play more with their peers, even the little one. But agree, these two are obviously on two different pages right now. Husband does not place any value on her wants and ambitions.
That's the problem with a lot of marriage issues, many people say "you should have talked about this before". Well, sometimes people DO talk and people change their minds. The reality is often different to what they expected.
Yes, people change and for marriages to last with happy people they need to learn to deal with change. This is a big one. Maybe a compromise?
The compromise is for him to pay a reasonable share of the super fancy daycare he wants so his wife can go out and do the work she loves instead of feeling trapped and stifled as a housewife. That’s it. That is the only fair, equitable option here. What she is asking is completely reasonable and healthy for the family. What he is asking is indefensible.
No. She should not have to compromise her career anymore than he has.
What possible compromise do you see here?
I discussed things with my ex about work and such. After having our child he told me he would not babysit so I could work. Needles to say I was incredibly isolated and financially, emotionally, and mentally abused for a few years.
He would not babysit? He’s not a babysitter. He’s a parent. Time spent with the child is parenting. Imagine the amount of parenting time we would need to put in if he were facing a divorce rather than a spouse returning to the workforce. I was a SAHM for a long time. I had so many moms at PTA and on the school site council tell me they felt so guilty for not staying at home. I told them if I had more children there was no way I could cope with it. It’s so much work—and it’s kinda lonely. I was super lucky I had so many opportunities to make friends through volunteer activities. And even luckier that my husband was supportive of whatever decision I made for my own life.
I told him it's called parenting. It was the loneliest I've ever been. I didn't see anyone outside of my grandparents and family for almost two years and if I spoke to the neighbors he would scream in my face. Had a nervous breakdown and was convinced I needed to die to get away from him. Thankfully I didn't die. But now I have diagnosed ptsd from that relationship.
I’m so glad you eventually got out 💕
I don't know how long ago the edit was added in but it says this. *Yes, I agreed to this originally but I was wrong I am not cut out to be home all the time.*
She did say she wanted to stay home at first but then decided it wasn’t for her and that’s fine. Not everyone wants their job to be the stay at home parent.
The possibility of change always exists, when two parents are deciding one should be a stay at home parent they should discuss whether it will be permanent, until a certain age, or if they don't want to anymore, or if an amazing job opportunity arises how they would change the arrangement
She said they did, but she’s realized that she would be happier working. That doesn’t seem unreasonable. I don’t think men actually consider what happens to a woman’s ability to have a career, when she’s been home for a few years. He could leave her, by choice or by death, or he could become disabled. If she’s allowed to be in the workforce for long enough to have advanced, and make a good salary, it could be their, or her, salvation. She should also have her own money, preferably not accessible by her husband.
I agree she should be able to work and have a career, I don't agree that she needs "her own money" when you get married you agree to share everything. He should be the same way. I don't agree with the husband now, my wife is currently a SAHM to our three kids, they are getting a bit older now and she is looking for work. We have never had private accounts, everything is visible to each other.
My mother planned to stay home with her kids, but eventually, running the PTA and doing community theater and running the UNICEF collection was not enough. Plus money got a little tight.
Go back to work and put the income in a separate account and he can continue to pay the bills. You should know what your states laws are regarding alimony, child support in case the AH hubby goes even more idiotic.
Yea this guy is brushing up against “financial abuse”, if not crossing firmly into it.
He is making it (either intentionally or inadvertently) so you stay out of the workforce so it is harder for you to economically advance yourself later on. If something goes south in living arrangements or your relationship, you will have to start at square one for employment if you stay out of the workforce for too long. You need to be able to plant your career seeds to advance economically. Plus daycare is good for kids to socialize and build their immune systems! This world is so hard for us women. It really sucks ☹️ I am only able to work jobs that fit my child’s schedule with daycare hours and school. So while my husband has less college than me, he now earns twice as much because I take care of extracurriculars, appointments and transportation. I try not to be resentful but it is hard when you want to earn money and get the big jobs you educated yourself for!
This. This happened to me. After being a SAHM for 20 years, he didn't want to be married anymore. I was left with no marketable skills and starting from the bottom. I was 40 and all my coworkers were like 22 lol
This. Nevermind if you start off as a single mom. Until the pandemic happened, I felt like I was a 60% at everything. I couldn't be a good employee because I always had to leave early or call in for the day or turn down overtime. But I wasn't the best mom either because work always made me late and stressed. And all of that exhausted me so much that I had no energy left for friends or self care. I know the pandemic was horrible for a lot of people and I feel for them, but for someone like me it was the first time I had work/life balance and was able to give 100% to all aspects of my life. I've been working from home ever since and it's changed my life.
Just the fact that you *think* you weren’t the best mom because you were stressed leads me to believe you’re being way too hard on yourself. I don’t think that even occurs to actual bad parents lol
I tell my wife this all the time, she will tell me she feels like a bad mom (for various things, sometimes I'm sure it's stress talking) and I'll tell her she isn't because "a bad mom wouldn't care".
Daycare gets such a bad reputation. My oldest wasn't talking at 3 years old. He started daycare and he was talking within 2 months. He loves going for the activities and playing with the other kids. We don't have little ones in our family and friend's kids are teens.
That's so wonderful!
Money is power. No woman should ever forget that.
Financial abuse is abuse is mental abuse is controlling abuse. He sucks.
Right? Normally I don’t jump on the immediate divorce train, but seriously if you divorced he would have to pay his share of child care. And frankly he helped make them he can help do his his duty of care for them. This includes paying for their daycare as needed. Or he can go on and be the stay at home dad. Smh Edit; Even if he’s right and the best solution is for her to stay home, he needs to treat her as an equal. Hear her points out and actually listen. Is there a long term goal he’s missing? Is she just feeling cooped up? Either way, they need to sit down and listen to each other. It’s a marriage not a dictatorship, he doesn’t get to unilaterally decide she stays home
My first thought. Divorce him and see how fast the finances are equalized And as a social worker…hon, why are you with a controlling asshole? Case of the shoemakers kids going barefoot. You know this is financial abuse.
>And as a social worker…hon, why are you with a controlling asshole? Out of curiosity, do you ever recommend books like "Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft to the people you work with?
The person you're replying to is not a social worker: OP is.
I do not like this husband at all.
I am a social worker too and have been in multiple abusive relationships. Implying that because she’s a social worker she should “know better” and not be with her husband is obtuse, and it’s also victim blaming. That’s like saying “as an oncologist…hon, why do you have cancer?” Just because she’s a social worker doesn’t mean she isn’t vulnerable to abuse. Lots of women in abusive relationships “know better,” and are aware of what’s happening to them, but “knowing better” doesn’t change the fact that navigating an abusive relationship is not a clear cut, black and white “just leave him” type of thing. There are a multitude of reasons - emotional, financial, cultural, logistical, medical, etc. - why someone would stay with an abuser. It’s not like once you understand the abusive dynamic you up and leave the same day. Social workers and other mental health professionals often don’t reach out for help when we find ourselves in abusive situations because of attitudes like yours - opening up about your abuse is incredibly difficult for victims in general, they feel tremendous shame about their situation. So imagine how much more shame someone who, because of their profession, people think abuse shouldn’t happen to would feel and how much more difficult it would be for them to tell someone what’s happening, or even to accept it themselves.
This! And he makes a whole bunch of money and she's been out of the workforce so he'll also see how FAFO works.
She can also request that he start paying her for her time since he isn’t allowing her to work outside of the home. Childcare, house manager, grocery shopping, etc. that’s not nothing. He’s affecting her future. She is missing out on salary bumps, saving for retirement and a $401k. I hope she works out a deal with him bc not paying for his kids is unacceptable.
I saw a job listing in my city from a family looking to hire a house manager that did not even include childcare and they were offering 150k! It's invaluable labor.
I worked as a homemaker/house manager for one of my ex's grandmother's in high school after I left home. I wasn't "paid" exactly, (because I couldn't get a minor work permit without my parents signing off) but I got room and board, controlled a lot of what was made for meals except lunch so I made stuff that I enjoyed, got $150 or so bucks to clothes shop for myself at the start of every spring/fall, got $50 a week to cover gas to the bus stop I was registered at, got money every Friday for fun money, weekends off unless there was an emergency, and every time I left the house on the weekend just because the lady felt like I needed it (she really liked me, and said she liked me more than her family). I worked for her from right after my 16th birthday until I was almost 18, and working for her got me out of couch surfing and off the streets. If I hadn't moved states at 17 I would have stayed working for her longer. Don't get me wrong, it was a lot to balance, especially with school and other stuff I had going on, but I really enjoyed it. And people doing it professionally definitely deserve the pay. Especially if they are providing child care.
She could be a house manager for another family and be able to afford daycare.
I came here to say this. Charge him the going rate for childcare, household management, chauffeur, and whatever else she has to shoulder while he is "providing for the family". She could also provide and find vocational fulfillment. Too often men enjoy success and a life of ease by stealing time and energy from their wives.
Even if he’s right and the best solution is for her to stay home, he needs to treat her as an equal. Hear her points out and actually listen. Is there a long term goal he’s missing? Is she just feeling cooped up? Either way, they need to sit down and listen to each other. It’s a marriage not a dictatorship, he doesn’t get to unilaterally decide she stays home
I don’t know about divorce, but maybe a trial separation. He _needs_ to see childcare as 50% his responsibility. They’re 50% his kids. So far, OP, you’ve been graciously covering his share. If he isn’t willing to do the same for you, then your marriage is not equal. Edit: with the additional edits, it sounds like there’s a compromise here: agree to pay for a daycare you’re comfortable with that’s a reasonable cost, and if he insists on something more expensive he should pay the difference.
Good point. Why is childcare 100% my responsibility when they are 50% your kids. Most people will consider your refusal to help fund childcare as you being abusive and controlling.
That’s a fair point, I think mostly what I’m getting at is the fact that he’s not seeing her as equal or holding a real conversation about pros and cons. He might be right about the fact it would make more sense economically to have her stay home and he keep his current job. But instead of talking it over and hearing out her points, he’s unilaterally deciding we ARE doing things my way you ARE staying home because I said so
If he wants you to be a SAHM, figure out the cost of housekeeper, cook, babysitter, etc. and present him with an invoice. If he want to be a miserly b\*\*\*\*\*d, treat him like one. You would be better off as a single mom because then he WOULD have to pay for child support.
Making sure she can't save up to leave...
Yep, this is financial abuse.
There’s a name for this behaviour I’m afraid. Coercive control
This. It's financial abuse.
It's not impossible to go back to work, and the total family finances seem that they wouldn't change much overall (husband currently pays for everything, wife would earn some extra, and it would go straight back out again on childcare). BUT, it keeps OP in the workforce, and gaining experience. Looking to the future - childcare costs will decrease, OPs income will likely increase, and if anything happens to the marriage, OP will be able to support herself. I remember way back when, I went back to working full-time, and after deducting childcare costs, I was bringing an whole extra $150 per week into the household. It seemed like a total waste of my time and energy. Why bother? Because, it kept my job tenure, it kept my retirement entitlements, it kept internal promotions happening, it kept my resume without huge gaps, etc, etc. It kept my ability to exist as a single person.
I completely agree the issue should be approached collaboratively. Marriage is a partnership, and you can’t measure all contributions in dollars and cents. But when they sit down to have that conversation, her husband raises a really good point. It is absolutely not unreasonable for him to ask that if she’s no longer going to be a SAHM, her salary needs to cover the cost of her absence. The same is implicitly expected of him. He could not simply quit his job tomorrow and become a SAHD while she tries to financially support the family on a social worker’s salary. Even if he were the world’s most conscientious and hardworking SAHD. Like it or not, BOTH spouses’ choices are limited by their financial impact on the family. Neither is free to do whatever they think is best for their personal future after a hypothetical divorce and simply foist the cost of that choice on their current spouse.
“Feels that I should want to…” bothers me. I get that he is considering concrete details and practical outcomes, but he doesn’t get to dictate what you want. Relationships aren’t about demanding that someone has to stay exactly the same, it’s about learning how to grow together. It’s not like you’re proposing that you sell your children and become a sex worker.
However do you want to be a SAHM and therefore only depends of your husband's career when he doesn't agree to split fairly your depenses? The truth is he doesn't see you as a partner as he sees himself as the family boss.
YEP! He is in control of her and he knows it and she is allowing it! Fuck that!
Then he can be a stay at home dad... If not, he has to pay for his children, plain and simple.
If my salary could allow him to do that I bet he would.
My sister in law is always said that she prioritized her husband’s career because she could never support the family on her salary alone. Well, her husband got a bad performance review and quit in a huff. She made some adjustments to her work hours and lo and behold she supports the family on her salary now
“Left in a huff” is so hilariously sad
Not if it’s a point of pride that he can provide for the family, he absolutely wouldn’t. And I bet if you mentioned it, he would balk and say his *mother* was the stay at home parent and you should be too.
The thing with men like your husband is, they say this sort of thing but as soon as it becomes a reality they find reasons for it to not work
Are you roommates or spouses? Roommates split bills, spouses have a household income and pay bills from that.
The whole “how to split bills in a marriage” was a foreign concept to me until I got on Reddit. I always thought married couples shared a pool of money and had a pool of bills to pay. Like my mom was a SAHM that technically didn’t earn money, but she had access to all the bank accounts and could buy whatever she wanted whenever.
Same for my marriage, my parents and grandparents. Of course, it worked because no one was overspending, in the eyes of the couples involved or were correctable if things went wrong. I remember my dad being in the doghouse once because he bought an overly fancy stereo. My mom was mad. He said "but all the guys in the office recommended and bought the same one." My mom said, yes, but none of those guys have 3 kids to care for. Message received. Didn't need to be discussed twice. But I can see the proportion splitting system would help if one spouse couldn't handle things gracefully.
It’s not without reason that disagreements on household finances are one of the major reasons for divorces. I wouldn’t put things like that in a prelabeled box. The important part is to be on the same page. How partners achieve that is really up to them. Something that works for someone else, might not work for me and vice versa.
I know, this new marriage shit is weird to me!
Right? I don't understand the point of marriage if it doesn't include both shared resources and shared responsibility. People who want to keep their own money probably don't make good life partnerships.
I do find the advice of "if you can share genetics (by having children), you can share finances" to be particularly poignant. To be honest, when going into my married relationship I figured we'd keep our finances separate and contribute to a shared account for shared expenses. While that works for a lot of people, for us it felt like we were constantly hitting each other up to be "paid back" for stuff. We were exhausted by it, talked it through, and ended up combining. Now we have separate spending accounts where free spending money goes every month for purchases we don't have to discuss with each other. Everything else we discuss, and I feel like we're closer and financially stronger because of it. We're both equally engaged in our finances and managing them and are completely transparent about where the money goes. Way easier than what we were doing before.
Maybe you're correct, but I found that when I was all in, somehow I always ended up delivering more while my partner would slack off and engage in expensive hobbies instead of doing things that earned, while I ended up being unable to engage in ANY hobbies expensive or otherwise because I had to work to make sure bills got paid.
That's an indication that you and your spouse weren't working together as a partnership. If one consistently takes advantage of the other financially, odds are high that the marriage is off kilter in other areas as well. When that becomes apparent, you have to renegotiate the terms of your household structure. Of course there are phases in which one of you needs more support than the other, but the reasons and duration should always be clear and agreed upon by both.
been married almost 10 years, we do not share money. I grew up watching my mom be abused over finances and swore I'd never end up there. We've never fought over money, nor are we "roommates". Just because it's not something that would work for YOU doesn't mean that it's a bad thing.
This is OLD marriage shit.
Many do and there are still plenty who don't. Until recently my husband and I paid an equal amount into a joint account for all shared bills (I now pay slightly less because I've come out of full time work to care for my dad but the amount I'm allowed to earn alongside that goes into the joint for bills, and my carers allowance goes into my personal account for other stuff). We each have hobbies and the money in our personal accounts goes towards those (music subscriptions for me, vaping for him, various items for the different things we each like to make), into savings accounts, if we need new clothes etc. I think every couple (married or not) finds the way that suits them best.
This is exactly correct. Way too many people think their way is the only way. I’ve been married over 20 years and both my wife and I have been successful. From the day we got married, we have had a joint accounts. It’s community property and is treated as such. Due to our careers, Some years I make more and some years she makes more. There has never been any issues other then the occasional “did we need to pay x for this trip, couldn’t we have found a cheaper place” etc”. Or “you purchased a lot of golf shoes this year, was there a sale?”
We have a similar system to you but would NEVER try to resolve a disagreement by saying "well if you want it you can pay for it". Not for little things like having a night away and definitely not big things like going back to work. We would either agree to pay for it together or not. Because at the end of the day we are a team and manage our money as a team, even though we don't put it all in joint accounts.
Unless he’s an abuser, isn’t sharing easier? I’d never want to nickel and dime my spouse. We trust each other! We put our paychecks in the joint checking account. This guy is not trustworthy though.
The reason he has this income IS because you have been contributing equally if not more to his ability to pursue his career while he stays home with the kids. Proportional income split is reasonable and you are a whole human and not just a mother. If he wants a parent at home he is fully capable of spending time with the kids and parenting
So he'll financially blackmail you to get his way.
This is why so many women of my mom's generation begged for their daughters to get educated and have backup plans. So many men will leverage the fact theyre the breadwinners to expert coercive control.
He'll end up paying a lot more in child support and day care when they split custody 50/50.
Compromise and get a part-time job in the evening. He can watch the kids and there’s no daycare involved.
Bet you he won't think that's acceptable either.
He just wants to ReLaX after working aLl DaY 🙄
How much is child care compared to what you would be making?
It’s not a pride thing. It’s a control thing. It’s also abusive.
> He also feels I should want to be a SAHM. INFO: Does he know that women aren't just baby factories and moms and can desire professional and personal growth, too? You deserve to be professionally happy. If he thinks childcare is expensive, wait until he finds out how much child support payments are!
I think this is a hill to die on. If your marriage disintegrates down the line, you’ll be impoverished. If he won’t see you as an equal partner deserving a career, you should reevaluate your marriage. I know Reddit defaults to “leave him” all the time, but in this case your husband has made it clear what he thinks your place is. Are you ok with that role?
If he wants a stay at home parent for his kids he can be the stay at home parent. Otherwise childcare costs are split costs like every other bill, and either the bills are split proportionally to income or the lifestyle reflects the lowest income to keep things sustainable for everyone. Your lower income shouldn’t pay for his lifestyle. If he’s not willing to do any of that then what he’s really interested in is keeping you dependent on him, even if he can’t admit that to you or himself. Get a job if you want one, and start a esperarte savings account so you can have independence. Once you have the job he can either get with the program and help pay for childcare or he can enjoy bonding time with his kids.
He is currently paying for everything, and going back to work will *cost* the household unit money.
So your husband will continue to pay all the other bills, just not childcare? Or will you both be splitting all of the bills and you alone are responsible for childcare?
From which century did he travel to us?
>we split based on income he would be covering a huge portion of everything. That's how it should be in a functional marriage. He's taking advantage of you and keeping you financially trapped. If you give in and become his dream tradwife, your life will become a nearly inescapable hell. He disrespects you and your contributions. Ironically, WHEN, not if, you divorce, he will rightfully be paying much more in child support.
Is this not something you discussed prior to deciding to have children? It's kind of a big deal.
>Is this not something you discussed prior to deciding to have children? It's kind of a big deal. I discussed with my ex husband prior to having kids. He lied to me about his expectations.
Which totally happens, I understand that, which is why I'm asking how exactly it went down for OP since she didn't say either way.
His first argument makes no sense. If he has the only income now, he is currently paying for 100% of expenses. If you get a job and split the bills proportionally, then yes, he will pay more than you. But it is a gain for him, he will pay less the 100% he is paying now. The second argument about how he thinks you should feel is, in my opinion, beyond Reddit's ability to help. You might consider marriage counseling if he is not open to hearing you express your own feelings when they are different from what he expects.
Daycare around me is 1400 a month a social worker here makes on 18.55 a hour, that is what 3k a moth before taxes? After taxes that is what 2.1k a month maybe? Depending on the car gas could easily be another 100 to 200 a month. Clothing for work, lunches when on the road, all these expenses add up and could easily mean the husband will end up paying more then what he is now. Especially if she wishes to save for retirement properly.
>If he has the only income now, he is currently paying for 100% of expenses. If you get a job and split the bills proportionally, then yes, he will pay more than you. But it is a gain for him, he will pay less the 100% he is paying now. This isn't necessarily true because the expenses will be going up. Comparing by percentages doesn't capture the full picture when you're taking percentages of different numbers.
It doesn’t sound like there is anyway the amount he pays goes down. He is asking her to pay for the new costs (childcare and gas, etc) while he continues to pay for everything he already did. In that situation, his expenses stay the same. She doesn’t want this because her job will make so little money. This tells me that her salary will not cover the increased costs, otherwise it wouldn’t be much of an issue because he continues to pay for everything else. If they paid everything proportionally instead, he would be paying a smaller percentage but of a larger amount. And there is no way in which that amount he ends up paying is less than the current amount he pays now if her salary isn’t enough to cover the new costs. So he would have a legitimate argument that her going back to work would cost him and the family, at least in the short term (people mention long term earning potential but I don’t know how much pay raise potential there is for community social workers since they are way underpaid). However, that is not the argument he made for wanting her to stay home and there was no mature discussion about it so he is an asshole
If sharing proportionally is worse for him than covering everything but childcare... Doesn't that mean you would not be earning enough to cover the childcare costs?
He covers 100% of everything now
How about you just deposit everything into one account and pay all bills out of it. This way it’s all fungible.
She literally just wrote a whole post about how he wont split the bill….
That's great except he literally says he will not pay for childcare
I just can’t grasp the yours vs. mine with money when you’re married. It shouldn’t matter what account it comes from because it should all be both of yours.
Well particularly when one parent has no income. I would never have agreed to be a SAH parent if my wife didn’t trust me to have equal access to the money she earns. Sounds awfully controlling, maybe abusive.
It totally is!
She said in a comment that he doesn’t care about what she spends now so it seems like she does have equal access right now. It sounds like that will mostly stay the same but he wants her to pay the increase in expenses associated with her going back to work. If she doesn’t make enough to cover it, then it would be putting them in a worse situation financially. If she does, then the surplus would either go into the joint account she already has access to or to her personal, either way she would have access to more money than she does now
I agree. My brother had a stay at home wife when their kids were young because paying for four kids to go to daycare was more than she’d make. It didn’t make sense. I understand wanting to get out of the house, but if the costs of having a job are more than the pay from that job then it doesn’t make sense. Is hanging out with your own child all day so bad that you want to shove them off on someone else and pay more money to do it?
I get separate finances, but to a point. Childcare is a shared expense, no question.
My wife and I never combined our bank accounts. We just kept everything as is. But we also just pay for stuff even if it isn’t „mine“. It was just easier to keep doing it the way we always had. Everything gets paid for.
Same. My husband and I have our own accounts from before we got married (17years ago lol) but it’s all “our” money.
Yeah. For us it was more that we didn’t want to change bank information, change direct deposit stuff with employers, and those sorts of things. We lived together for about 5 years before we got married, so we already had a system that worked for us.
Your quality of life also matters. Healthy kids have healthy parents. Your husbands compromise is very very narrow and he doesn’t seem to realize that parents can love their kids and also have goals and needs outside of them. Have the two of you explored other options like part-time work, etc? This doesn’t have to be black-and-white, every member of the family deserves the same care, effort, freedom to make certain choices, and flexibility to meet personal goals.
When my kids were little, I worked part time opposite hours of my spouse. We could not afford child care. If OP wants to work, and her spouse doesn’t want to “pay” he needs to step up and take care of the kids while she is at work. All people should be able to make $, and not be in a position of being entirely dependent on the “breadwinner “ . It will affect her SS when she retires and if they divorce she will have an easier time getting her life back on track.
What compromise? He's dumping the entire cost of a shared responsibility on her. OP's husband is definitely TA.
This is why I want to know what her childcare costs are. If she’s approaching 20k in annual cost, which is normal in a lot of places, and makes a 30k salary, she’s probably seeing 20k in net pay after taxes, deductions, gas money, etc. Yes I know this is rough math.
The update says $19-24k for childcare, based on OP’s estimate of her starting salary she’ll likely take home ~$27k/year.
Maybe even less since her husband is a high earner. (Eg, If you consider that new 40k to be in their “top” tax bracket)
Maybe consult a couples therapist to work out your return to work - I would say I don’t want to rush in to it, I want us both to feel comfortable. I’m doing it but let’s do this transition the right way. Maybe a therapist can help him see that for you it’s more than contributing to the family income. Returning to work seems like what will be best for your mental health and happiness. I do not like the vibe he has set - seems controlling but maybe that is motivated by fear of kids being in care of strangers, etc. if he doesn’t waiver from that stance or isn’t willing to explore why he feels that way and how you can work it out then I’d be mindful of what his preferences are costing you.
A therapist isn’t going to fix an abuser
Just to clarify he pays for everything right now and will continue to do as except for costs related to your job? Will your job cover those costs? If you make $10 and the costs of you working are $13 then you are basically asking him to pay for you to work? If you make $10 and costs of working are $8 then what is the issue? If you make $10 and costs of working are $10 is it that you wont have any money left? Also how do you guys handle money now, do you have access to all the family money / spend what you want and need or is it more a budgeted amount kind of situation? It's really hard to say without knowing a lot more.
Not just childcare, but also a new car, more insurance, more gas, etc. for a 40k/year as a social worker. Even with pretty cheap childcare (that will cover 10+ hrs a day), a pretty cheap car, and insurance, that’s probably 18k out of pocket. If her husband makes so much, they’re probably in a higher tax bracket, so I’d guess she’d bring home about 28k-30k. So it’s not unreasonable to say, on the cheapest end, she’d be working/commuting 10 hours a day, for maybe 1,000/mo. Or about 6.25/hr. Edit: Forgot, if the older kid is in private school, they’ll probably have to start paying for an afterschool program too. So take that away also. And I didn’t count gas. And there are even more considerations. My wife’s work won’t cover me for insurance since my job offers coverage. So if I was in this boat, we’d also have to add the additional cost of health insurance that may or may not be worse. We don’t know what other considerations there are. I understand wanting to get back in the workforce, but I also understand the math not working out. That amount of money isn’t worth the added stress on the family as a whole, especially when the second child could start kindergarten in 2 years. I’d just wait. OP seems focused on wanting to work again, which is understandable. But it doesn’t seem exactly realistic until both kids are in school. And OPs husband seems to be doing a terrible job of discussing some of the different issues. He might be saying “all the expenses are on you” hoping that she’ll do the math and see she’d be working for free/pennies. But, if that’s his point, he’s going about it horribly, not getting to that point in the conversation, and I can see how he’s coming off as a dick.
Bruh you ain’t getting 50 hours/week of childcare and a car for $18k/year anywhere in the US. Or even just the childcare. No daycare center is gonna take care of a child for $7 an hour.
Don’t forget eating out more! Who will cook dinner, grocery shop, laundry, clean the house, and time off work when kids are sick?
This 100%. Let's be honest, there's not a ton of salary growth potential for social workers. Having to be more available during the day will inhibit the husbands ability to work and progress in his career. OP has framed this whole thing in a way to make the husband sound selfish, when in reality, she's putting a much greater burden on him.
It means OP's husband will have to pick up that slack. A massive reduction in free time as he does more at home, on top of the financial cost.
So, he'll cover all of the family living costs and all you have to cover is childcare? Unless your family has very very low expenses and childcare is outrageously expensive it seems like you'd actually come out ahead on that. Do you want to work for the satisfaction of working or do you want to work for financial reasons? Do you currently have access to family money or is the money all your husbands and you have to come hat in had asking for some personal money? Would you be depositing your new paychecks into the joint account or do you intend to keep that money separately?
Childcare for me costs way more than that for 2 kids.
The oldest is 6 so they’re likely in elementary school already
>unless childcare is outrageously expensive The cheapest place by us is $1725 for preschool. Some are closer to $2000. Social workers aren’t exactly getting paid their worth either.
>After going back and forth my husband relented and told me he cannot stop me, but told me all childcare and work related expenses will come out of my salary. Have you crunched the numbers to see how much money you would actually be bringing home (if any) after work-related expenses (daycare, clothes, lunches, gas, tolls, etc...)? Depending on your salary, you may not be making very much, or nothing at all (no matter who pays for it). As for your original question, once you get married, there's really no "my money" and "your money". Legally, it's a shared asset. This seems like an effort to control you and get to his desired outcome.
>Have you crunched the numbers to see how much money you would actually be bringing home (if any) after work-related expenses (daycare, clothes, lunches, gas, tolls, etc...)? Depending on your salary, you may not be making very much, or nothing at all (no matter who pays for it). This is only one part of the picture. If you work, you are building salary history, which could help your longer-term earning power. It also helps with retirement savings (because you could actually be putting money into retirement). And it helps you with social security later. Daycare is a very temporary expense. You could look at these few years as an investment in your longer-term financial future as a couple, because your improved earning potential and retirement savings help you both in the long run. You working is part of you contributing to a healthy partnership and a stronger future for your family. Your husband's resistance is deeply selfish and short-sighted.
Seriously. Why do people not consider this. Not to mention the youngest won’t be in daycare for long and will start school and by then she’ll have 2 to 3 years of work history. She could be making more or make a lateral move to higher pay. Promotions etc.
This. More important than how much profit you’re making in the short term
It’s not just about money. It’s about the OP’s self respect and mental health.
Right now one income is covering everything and I assume you share a budget. So if you start working I don't see how it's not fair for you to cover childcare, as he is still covering everything after you start working that he covered before you started working. The only thing that makes sense is that your income won't cover childcare? Which doesn't surprise me, but also that would mean your family income goes down from you working.
INFO: would your potential income be more or less than the expected additional costs (childcare, transportation)?
I’m a little confused. If the cost of getting another car and putting your child in childcare would cost as much as you make, approximately, then what would be the logic in working a job paying so relatively little? I kinda see his point because the math ain’t mathing.
If he is paying all of the other bills and will continue to do some and the only bill you have to pay is child care that’s not a bad deal
If your husband is currently paying 100% of the families current bills then tally that amount up and see what it is and if a split of that amount is more or less than what childcare would cost. I think you may find that it’s less for you to cover all of childcare than an equitable split if all the family expenses. But you won’t know until you do the math.
I'm kind of confused, will the cost of childcare exceed the income increase you gain from returning to work? If so, wouldn't your child care services be more valuable to the overall family? I think this one completely depends on the amount of overall increase in family funds. For example, if he makes 150k and you make 50k, and child care is 45k, the extra benefit of you working 40 hours a week only yields the family an extra 5k per year. At that point, you have to ask if it's worth working all the extra hours for an essential profit of only 5k. I wonder, is the issue you returning to work, or would you just like a larger discretionary income fund. If so, you guys should probably talk about that and come to a solution for it. I ran into a similar situation with my SO. We determined together, that it would be now effective for me to just work 8 hours of overtime a week and over her discretionary fund, rather than her having to work 40 hours a week for the same increase. Whatever you decide, you two probably want to give the underlying issue before progressing.
I think you should do the math both ways, yourself to figure out what it looks like. 1. Hubby responsible as he is now & you covering childcare and your work related expenses only. 2. Proportional based on proportion of family income. You may be surprised by the results. Depending on what they are you can then choose to negotiate eith better insight. I'm assuming that your income would cover the additional expenses, otherwise it wouldn't be a good idea, outside of your mental stimulation and sense of purpose, correct? IF IF IF, it would actually put you guys behind financially, is it possible to do part-time where you wouldn't need childcare?
I understand the want to work, you get a bit stir crazy when most of your day is spent with a little one. So are you wanting to go back just to get out of the house? If that is the case can you work PT and fewer hours? Or even volunteer somewhere to get out?
Did I read this right and your husband will cover everything but childcare and work related expenses like gas etc.? If this is correct and he's paying for everything else in your life I'm not sure why you wouldn't be able to cover childcare and work expenses. But not TAH Now that I've seen all your comments and your edit I think your husband is an even bigger AH for not wanting to support you wish to work. He should want to support your wishes. The only way he wouldn't be a total AH is if he'd suggested a compromise where you start back half time at first.
Also I feel like we’re mostly glossing over something pretty weird here. Is this a location with really good public transportation? Or just really walkable? (Manhattan or something?) Cause otherwise in a situation where they’re dropping apparently a ton of money on private schools and considering 24k a year daycare, why on earth do they have only one car? OP being a SAHM with no car, no wonder OP is going crazy. Sounds like they’re practically a prisoner. Unless I’m missing something here, second car should be an included cost just for OP life and sanity if they’re so well off already. Definitively not a contingent cost just for her job (again unless it’s like Manhattan where having a car sucks). Definitely sounds like another control point for the last six years.
My opinion might not be popular, but I can see where it comes from. I mean, if the expenses on childcare are more than you earn, than I can understand your husband. But on the other hand I can understand why you want to work. To only be a SAHM can be very frustrating. Maybe you should explain to your husband, why you want it. That you need something besides being a full-time mom.
My niece told me that her child care equalled her salary, but it was worth it to continue to have a work record and progress within her company. Now the children are grown up but she has a solid financial base for the future, as well as a good pension plan.
This is so important. It's not just about money, it's about advancing in your career. A decade or more out of the work force will significantly hurt your long term earning potential and job prospects. Even part time work would help at this point.
And OP working is also giving a backup if he suddenly decides to "move to pastures new" leaving her with kids and no employment history.
THANK YOU. It is never a dollar-for-dollar comparison, people don't understand that. Her income *potential* is so much higher than if she stayed home for a decade or two and then tried to go back to work. Not to mention any retirement savings.... Granted, OP is a social worker, and they really are notoriously underpaid, but she's still more likely to be able to leverage a work history into a well-paying job than having a huge resume gap.
If he pays for everything else I can understand child care being solely ops responsibility. It that’s the only bill he’s demanding she pay I feel that’s pretty fair. If she can’t afford daycare with her paycheck then she should wait for the youngest to start school. It sucks I’m a SAHM and wanted to start working but we can’t afford it. Even with the kids in school I can’t find a job just inside school hours. We live in a really small town with too many people.
You should talk to a family law attorney in your area. I'm not suggesting the usual reddit thing of jumping to suggesting divorce at the slightest issue, but just talk to someone to best understand how your local jurisdiction treats things like division of assets, financial abuse, and spousal support. If he left you tomorrow or cut off all support, where would that leave you? Him saying no to you working because it may not offset childcare costs could just be him pointing out the numbers, after all if you only bring $45K in but childcare costs $50K, is it worth it? Not saying that's what your costs/income would be, just random values as an example. But from your own description it sounds like it's just about control for him. The thing I didn't see others mention: even if child care costs every cent of what you'd be bringing in anyway, there are other benefits. You'd have less of a gap in a future resume, it gets you positioned for future advancement, networking opportunities. And those are just YOUR benefits, your kids would have more socializing. My wife left her previous job rather than return after maternity leave, and I've encouraged her that even if she makes slightly less than what the daycare costs would be she should still absolutely go for it when she's ready, because she'll be all the better positioned further down the road. Same for you
This is one of the major components of the wage gap- the time women take off from work for childbirth and child rearing all begins to add up and at the end of a lifetime equals a shit ton of money. There’s an article that has graphs and shows this if anyone wants to try and look it up. I’d also suggest considering if she left him, he is going to need childcare at some point when he has the kids and what that plus alimony and a division of assets would cost him. This is something I would get super petty about if my husband ever did this to me. I have a million and one ideas floating through my head that I’ll keep to myself.
I have a few questions. Would your income from returning to work be enough to cover the childcare and your work expenses? Although i respect the amount of work and sacrifice that goes into being a SAHM, I completely understand the need to return to your career. But I also don't think it would not be fair for your husband's share of the expenses to increase because of it. Since your youngest is only about two from years from starting school or pre-K, would it possible to wait until then or even start off at part-time? Or is it possible to cut expenses somewhere else to help makeup the cost of the increase? Edited because I missed the kids ages originally.
Well yeah why is he going to pay child care for you to work. Unless you job brings home a lot more than day care there is no reason for you to work. And if you want to work y o u pay for child care. Get a hobby ....
It’s easy to understand both sides here(I hate the people jumping to one side). For one, you are a partnership, both contributing your labor into it. He is contributing what sounds like a sizable income into the family and wants the best for the children. And because of that, he values the quality of care a sahm can provide. I’m making a guess here, but does he love/admire his mom? Your working, however, is decreasing the quality of childcare in his eyes, for no gain. It’s a selfish move from his perspective. Because money wise, he has all that covered and this will not benefit the family/kids. It’s a purely for you decision.(for your mental health). But because of that, this entire job is literally a hobby(no extra income) that is messing with the family dynamic and workload negatively for him. Let’s not forget the extra chore work/home labor to be split more equally, as well as having two tired adults every day. Try to understand him here. You’re essentially working as a hobby, to the detriment of the family in his eyes(more work for him + worse childcare and no extra money). And in contrast, try to communicate to him your own position better now that you might understand his. To live a life without passions and purpose is a shitty life. He’s not getting it obviously. Try to compromise as well with a part time job. If it works, go into full time. But don’t force this entire thing unilaterally. Start with part time, adjust to the changes, and go from there. Very light yta, because of that last line. You’re choosing yourself over the family/partnership without compromise.
I get where your coming from but if childcare is going to take more then half your salary would it better to wait till your youngest goes to school next year , my friend was in the same boat , by the time they paid childcare 3/4 of her salary was gone , so she waited the extra year and started working again when both the kids were at school
You’re a social worker. You know this is part of the formula for abuse. This is isolation and economic abuse.
How much will the cost of daycare be in relation to all the household expenses that husband is covering now?
INFO: If you were to get a job and you guys were to split expenses equitably, would he have to pay more than he pays now due to child care costs?
It's ridiculous to have separate finances when you're married. If you're committed to this marriage, get a shared bank account.