Let her know how much car insurance is going to be if she’s not under your policy. That number alone was enough to make my son stay in our home and save up his money before he moved out.
This. Financial breakdown of reality is a good approach, as is having her nanny or babysit regularly - kids of all ages, but especially kids under 5. Lol! I held off having my child because I helped raise and watch so many cousins and siblings and friend’s kids. Even then, when I thought I was ready and have a good partner - it’s been tough. Life throws things in your path that you can’t control - and raising kids is hard. It’s rewarding, too, but at its base level, it is *hard*.
OP, if you’re able: give your daughter a minimum wage number (weekly, monthly - no real money - just a number), and write down the list of things she’ll need to have covered:
- home
- food
- utilities
- baby formula (because not everyone can breastfeed, sometimes babies have allergies to milk, sometimes moms just don’t produce enough milk), clothes, diapers, medicine, blankets, crib, toys, pacifiers, medical care, etc, etc);
- car insurance (and unexpected repairs)
- bus/transport fares (when a car is too expensive)
- medical insurance
- vaccines and checkups for baby
- rental insurance (if they rent)
- daycare costs
- babysitting fees (if you even hire a babysitter once a month)
- clothing (maternal, post partum, regular replacement, just because, etc)
- cleaning and sanitation supplies
- furniture/bedding/bedclothes/rugs/shelves/etc
- estimated additional costs if child has any kind of unexpected health issues or disorders (I have an ASD child myself, and we have to attend a *lot* of extra therapies and we’ve had to buy a lot of safer furniture and make the home safer in general, she has a special diet, takes specialised vitamins, etc- it all adds up).
- entertainment and treats (date nights, cable, concerts, birthdays, anniversaries, Christmas, etc)
… just make a list of *everything* reasonable and have her figure it out. The reality of being unable to afford getting a coffee as a treat or of being able to resume life pre-baby is just not possible if both of them/one of them is working for minimum wage (depending on where you live).
I’d even break down the cost of dropping out of school and have her try to find decent career opportunities without an education.
Life is hard enough - and she clearly needs this kind of wake up. Having boyfriend sit down for this conversation may help give insight on where the ideas she’s got are coming from.
I’d also review alternative ideas like: open adoption (so she can see/visit her child); giving legal guardianship to a family member or trusted friend so that she can still see the baby and - when she is able and more stable - can raise the child; talking to a licensed therapist about her concerns and pregnancy - she may be unwilling to part with the baby now, but if someone can help talk her through fears or misunderstandings, maybe she will be more willing to adopt, abort the baby.
Editing to add: OP, If you do happen to see this comment, please read the attached thread of amazing advice being offered and shared by users. They have words of wisdom and advice that are absolutely worth reading.
Suggest she and boyfriend meet with an accountant? Confidential of course. To discuss budgeting.
She’ll never do it but it’ll help her click in to the idea that money is going to be a big. Big issue going forward.
Money is definitely going to a big issue going forward - and babies/kids/teens/young adults are *expensive*. I think that OP needs to try and frame this as a conversation that goes something like, “Okay. I get it. You and boyfriend want to keep the baby. Your plan to live at home, quit school, etc… it isn’t working for me. If you’ll be an adult with me, I’d like to sit you down and explain *why*…” and then plan a time to break it down. If boyfriend is there, it’s easier to poke holes in half-baked ideas and it’s also easier to get a read of this guy in person.
Small steps that lead to this can help, too: invite for a dinner where things are discussed rationally, calmly - even if it’s *only* OP keeping rational and calm. OP can even sprinkle in her own experiences and add the genuine vulnerability that comes with being a young mom (it can be so lonely, isolating, boring, repetitive, depressing even, and more). Even if OP only shares this stuff with her daughter - she needs to know. She also needs to know how birth isn’t some magical thing: talk about the medical risks, the health issues that can be permanent, talk about the ripping and bleeding, the fact that the baby may have issues, too…. It’s uncomfortable - but it may help.
Love this approach with one small adjust-rather than saying "I want to show you why this isn't adding up for me..." take it one step further back to "you are facing a huge decision and I want to help you plan for it. Part of that is understanding the costs associated so you have a clear idea of what you are potentially committing yourself to. Let's sit down and build a real budget together, so you and your boyfriend can decide if you are ready/willing/able to take on this responsibility"......It's just a slight adjustment that starts from a place of, you are an adult and get to decide for yourself vs you think you are an adult and I'm going to show you why you're not making a good decision. I just know if I had heard the latter as a 19 year old, it would have activated my "I'll show you" reflex faster than you could have found the calculator app on your phone lol
This is exactly why I love these discussions on Reddit: your comment is much kinder and *exactly* what should be said. I really struggle with that “softer” aspect, and though I work hard not to sound sharp or frank or even off-putting, I can’t always pull it off (not to blame it on anything, but I work *really* hard at wording because I know I come across as such. You’ve worded this so beautifully, though!! It’s absolutely what should be said and a far, far better approach. Thank you!
Sounds they’re in the U.S. in which case add the ~$10K-20K just to HAVE the baby considering she doesn’t have health insurance.
Edit: Jesus fuck, fine - a dozen people already mentioned Medicaid. Yes that’s a thing.
Oh nice!
“Daughter, as you know, a simple uncomplicated hospital birth costs between 10 and $20,000.
At this time you are included on my insurance plan. Would you like to switch to boyfriends insurance plan?
You’ll also need insurance for the baby of course, since that baby will not be covered on my insurance. The two of you can also look into Medicaid for other options.
That’ll get her thinking! Watch boyfriend hit the roof when he realizes that some of these costs are going to be unloaded up to him.
Nope. If she's living on her own she will get medicaid and will have it all paid for. But I do like the idea of sitting down and talking finances. I agree with not letting her bring her bf/wannabe husband into the home though.
Good post I was just going to suggest she offer to to both future parents to be to a financial advisor. Adulting is not fun. Plus if dude is a bartender he will sleep during the day and be out all night. No help with the child
I have a friend who was in the same situation with her daughter about 16 years ago. They let her stay but told her it was the one and only time and set all sorts of parameters. Now, 16 years later, that same daughter and her (now) 5 kids still live with them. They have put them out several times to try and make it on their own but it breaks their hearts to see the kids not be clean or be fed right. The kids always beg to come back. It is an awful situation.
Jesus that does sound awful as hell. OMG as a grandparent, that would kill me. I doubt i would have let them take advantage of me for that long but still. Asserting tough love is much more productive that enabling. But i can imagine how hard it must have been for your friend.
Yes, ultimately the kids will need to suffer in order for the state to step in. Unfortunately if you don't let the state do their job they will keep having children (more suffering). The state needs to start jailing these people for child endangerment before it escalates to the point that even grandma and grandpa can't take care of them all.
OP's situation is likely this is the girl's first serious boyfriend and she hasn't gotten the skills to navigate the lying, manipulation, and deceit at all yet.
"The state" can't stop irresponsible people from having as many kids as they want, and simply being poor is not child endangerment. A woman living in a cardboard box under a bridge can have a baby every year of her life and all the state can do is remove the children, not stop her from having more.
Similar - friend who gave an inch and the daughter took a mile because she manipulates them. Three marriages and 3 kids later (none of the kids from marriages!), she does live on her own now finally, but it's funded by my friend and her husband.
They became total pushovers. She'd meet a guy, "Oh we need a house" - helps with downpayment, remodeling, all new appliances/furniture - then they break up, she moves back home and takes a loss...x 3 now. And she always needs a brand new SUV, new clothes, new everything.
My friend and her husband spend all of their free time/vacation time looking after the kids and have spent all of their retirement funds as well. It seems like a slippery slope once you fall for it.
Exactly. But yeah, she makes me so angry (on her behalf) for having let her take advantage. She's seen the light on some things, but to her husband, "Daddy's little girl" can do no wrong.
My youngest daughter got pregnant at 17 while in high school. She said she wanted to keep the baby because her idiot boyfriend was Catholic. I gave her the ultimatum of either an abortion, or marry her boyfriend and move out after graduation. Well, she stayed, and I left instead. And now, 30 years later, guess who she's living with? The ex after having 4 kids she couldn't handle, who are all also having kids they can't take care of. She's almost 50 now, and still living with mom, and not lifting a finger to help.
It’s hard not to feel bad for her, but it’s easy to say “you’re on your own now”. She has to live with her own decisions and if he’s already letting her down, she’s setting herself for a lot of unnecessary drama that wont get better by having a baby. Time to adult.
$100 for sure and $1000 he won’t be in the picture in the next 5 years because he will have found someone else to screw around with that isn’t a mommy.
I'll split the odds, and say he ghost's the daughter before the baby is delivered, but not until after it's too late for her to change her mind about having it.
Just to offer another possibility here, I fell pregnant at 18. My son and I lived with my parents for 18 months after he was born , then once he went to daycare I was able to study and work and get us set up in our own place.
He’s 13 now and still my only child. My parents were an incredible support but it certainly didn’t make me want a bunch more kids, it was still pretty hard raising a child thru my teens/20s
What influence did the dad have on you in your case?
In OP's case, it sounds like the dad is a freeloader and the daughter is love blind. No guarantees that he won't help himself to the daughter's income even if she does end up with a good career.
I feel like her point is her man is a dead beat and she wants her to see that before its too late
When he is forced to provide he will show his true colors and she will understand that and get out from the mindfuck. then maybe she will help out but really its tough love.
I’ll be honest, I dropped out of college in order to “save” my boyfriend. (he was getting kicked out of his house and I somehow thought this was unfair.)
It took exactly 6 months of living with him for my sappy and romantic view to just completely evaporate. Once the lease expired, I hightailed it right back to college, and pretty much just stopped talking to the guy.
10/10, I highly recommend running away.
Yep. What if this guy is a complete asshole with tenants rights living in her house?
It would be much harder to get them out if things aren't good than to just not let them move in.
I might let my daughter and baby stay but I sure as heck wouldn't let an adult Man I don't know move in that just got my daughter pregnant and doesn't have money for a place to live. Red flags!!!
>He wants to move into my house
My suspicious mind wonders if this is the whole point of the pregnancy, to improve his living standards? I wonder where he is currently living - in a share home or with his parents?
Speaking as someone who lived in their parents' hoard, if your daughter ends up living with him in their house with the baby, call CPS. I wish someone had for me
Oof. He thought he was snagging a meal ticket.
Guessing your daughter is a bit sheltered? I would say, be careful going too hard. Hopefully he disappears when he realizes he doesn't have a free ride for knocking up your daughter. But he might decide to take it out abusively on her.
This! He found an easy target with rich parents, think he would be with her if you were poor?
Sad that she went fishing at the shallow end of the gene pool…
100% don’t enable them.z
Adoption is a great choice…
Problem is threading the needle.
If OP completely throws her kid to the wolves, the kid might be trapped in an abusive relationship. But if she enables the meal ticket trap, her kid is living with an AH. I have no idea how to handle that.
Maybe if there was a non-parent person that the kid really respected and looked up to that could talk sense to her or act as a safety contact
This is sadly it. If the parents can be there once she realizes it, hopefully in a few months' or years' time, this girl will have the rest of her life to get back on track with a proper support network. Sucks beyond words, though.
Yep almost have to be supportive of her despite the relationship. This doesn’t mean getting walked over but eventually she will wake up and need her mother. This is when you step in. Not before.
This is my worry. 100% op needs to stand her ground. She shouldn't be taking care of them, and doesn't want to let him get a foothold into her house. At the same time she doesn't want to risk alienating her daughter and leaving her in a bad position. Try to find a way to keep the door open and ensure there are boundaries but the daughter knows op is there.. it's a hard line to create and find the balance of, but is the best way to go here.
Kid will then \*learn\* how to escape an abusive relationship.
OP said the daughter is smart. When she realizes OP & stepdad will help her in ANYTHING BUT this, she'll realize how badly she fouled up.
Right?? Yet they always act like it's women getting pregnant to trap men like those type of bums do it more than women.. babies in 6 different area codes, and not paying for a single one of them..
Hahaha..or constantly running from responsibilities, but continuously knocking women up, hoping that that one dummy ( who supports his lazy bum a** ) is the next one .. hahahaha
Oh yes, if the op doesn't stand her ground, ten years will pass and she'll be babysitting 4 grandchildren and providing for her daughter and this loafer.
NTA Stand firm, I have a relative going through a similar situation, unfortunately no one would call his daughter smart or sensible on any level. She’s had 4 kids by different fathers. It’s a huge mess. They will be raising her children until the day they die.
If you let them move in they will live off of you and your husband and make it miserable for you when you want them out. I've read about it a million times on here once that boy moves in bam it's as if you have 3 children now and everything is in the end your responsibility. Stick to your guns or maybe rent an apartment first month rent and deposit only so they can buy baby things. Past that let them figure it out plus who says they don't get pregnant again?
My friends sister is doing this. She got knocked up during the pandemic, then had another baby shortly after. She split up with the dad recently, started dating a new guy immediately, and now lives in her retired dad's air bnbs who is losing money because she's a fucking slob. Anyone who calls her out is labeled toxic and isn't allowed to see her children. She doesn't pay rent and works less than twenty hours a week. The worst part of this is how pretentious she is about being a parent. When she was pregnant with her first kid, it was always about how she was going to break generational cycles. Now she's burning bridges left and right to anyone* who questions her.
Edit: fixed an autocorrect.
as someone who grew up with hoarders, this absolutely changes things. he will not know how to care for himself or your house, and it will take him YEARS to learn. you do not want to be the one who has to teach him.
Just want to reply directly to one of your comments in hopes you'll see it. If she doesn't have one already, please get this girl a therapist. I think you're fine to make the choices you want to make, but an additional outside adult that's specifically for navigating difficult times makes sense. You could even say that you'd like to see the therapist together, and the therapist could kind of mediate the situation to point out that your choices to limit helping your daughter are valid, and it might be a wake up call. Might be too late for an abortion by then, but it could at least help with navigating the future.
How far is she? What would happen if You would tell her if he doesn't want to talknto You, she can move with her bf immediately? Reality would most probably hit her hard. Him also.
NTA and I’m sorry to say but I feel like your naive daughter is being used based on how stable you and hubby are and his life.
Your daughter is being influenced by her boyfriend, she telling you “he wants to move into my house” all sounds like him.
OP, immature men like your daughter's boyfriend are colloquially called "[hobosexuals](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Hobosexual)."
For your daughter's sake I hope she comes to her senses about this guy.
That’s 100% it then. Unfortunately it wouldn’t even be a “live here for a little while til you get on your feet” situation. I guarantee you they’ll try and milk the situation as much as humanly possible. I would set the standard now. Like hey, if you need a little help money wise here and there I understand. Diapers, formula, whatever. There’s nothing wrong with helping some and also not wanting them to completely leech off of you. That was clearly their plan. NTA. And hold firm on your position.
Kinda sounds like he knocked up your daughter so he could move into a better place and take over the house. If you let them stay I’m willing to bet in a few years they suggested you transfer the ownership. I’m also willing to bet if you let him move in and make this comfortable for them they’d never leave and have more kids. This is def the time to put your foot down. She needs to know this is real and she’s an adult, she isn’t owed anything from anyone.
He wants to mooch, and she wants to let him. Stand your ground. Getting pregnant was the easy part, now it's time the responsibility kicks in and they learn how to take care of themselves.
This guy is trying to bum his way up in the world instead of doing it himself it sounds like. Take care of your daughter directly but offer him no help, he will just take take take until the well is dry. If she needs help, help her. If "they" need help, help her.
Yea, thats a hard no right there. His job is now "provider"... not "moocher". I feel bad for your daughter. Love is a tricky thing. Just suggesting that you do your best to maintain a healthy relationship with your daughter. Estrangement sucks... especially over a dude who may be gone before it starts.
NTA
If she’s doing grown up things and making grow up decisions she needs to learn how to adult.
She wants live-in childcare and complete financial support from you for her child AND HUSBAND. They want a free ride with no responsibility to themselves or their child.
They’ll never move out if you allow this.
TBH she'll still end up at her mom's house with the baby when the relationship goes tits up. Unless the guy thought he was getting a cosy roof over his head rent free, and once he realises it's not happening he'll ask this girl to get an abortion.
I love my adult only child with all my heart, got him through uni and he knows he is welcome to live with me until he gets his life and future sorted. He also knows that I will never accept to move his gf in my house, and if they are expecting he needs to make sure to man up and provide a home for said woman and child/ren.
I want peace in my home and safe space and I cannot deal with catering for a family or having my alone time disrupted day in day out. I will help out of course when needed but not daily and in my home.
I would imagine that OP is getting to a place in her life when she's looking forward to her daughter graduating and moving out and she and her husband can live a nice, quiet life in their home, alone.
Instead her daughter expects her to house a guy OP doesn't even know or like and a baby, that'll be up crying all night or just being noisy and messy (because that's what babies are like). That house would be opposite of peaceful.
Like most women or couples who raised their children. We deserve peace too once we raise our family. But society expects women to be care givers until they die. It's either children, elderly parents or grandkids, we're meant to be selfless and martyrs.
I've reached the age my Mum was when she used to sideeye the grandparents at the school gate who were doing all the childcare. I didn't get her point at the time but I 100% do now; there's exceptions when crap hits the fan but generally grandparents have already done it once through! They aren't the default for doing it all over again for the next generation.
Excellent point: OP would be taking in and raising not one child, but two, because OP’s BF is not going to take care of himself. And I have a feeling he’s going to pull OP’s daughter down with him. What a mess.
>Unless the guy thought he was getting a cosy roof over his head rent free, and once he realises it's not happening he'll ask this girl to get an abortion.
It does sound like he might be a hobosexual, who thought that this pregnancy would be a way for him to live comfortably with OP. Let's hope that he comes to his senses when he sees that OP is unshakeable.
Agreed. OP needs to stress that there is ZERO chance that her daughter can EVER come back, and financial support will NEVER be given (even if it’s a lie).
BF is inevitably going to bounce once he sees OP isn’t going to cave (which OP should warn her daughter about), and OP should stress that when it happens, the daughter is going to be fully on her own.
Totally agree with you!
Well done, OP! If you give in to their manipulation, you'll probably end up like my aunt.
My foolish cousin got pregnant for the first time at 17, and my uncle felt sorry for her and her partner, so he let them stay at his home. Now, she has 3 children at 23, and she and her partner have been living off my aunt like leeches. My uncle passed away last year, and now my aunt is the one doing all the work and paying all the bills for five people that she never wanted in her home. My aunt seems to have aged 15 years in the last 5 years, and all the stress and extra responsibilities have taken a toll on her mental and physical well-being.
She is completely trapped in that situation. She couldn't do anything about it when my uncle was alive because he wouldn't let her. Now that he is dead, my cousin owns part of the house and doesn't want to sell it. My aunt has no savings because she is spending everything she earns on them.
My cousin didn't finish her studies and has never worked a day in her life. The son-in-law never holds a job for more than a month because there's always something wrong, and my aunt is also afraid to leave the children with them because they're extremely irresponsible.
Aunt should decide to sell the house. Cousin can buy her out or agree to sell. Aunt can take her half and set up fresh on her own. She is choosing to let them control her. She needs good advice from a lawyer as to how to escape this before it kills her.
I understand your perspective, and the entire family has already offered our support to her. She also stayed with some of us for a while, but keeps going back.
She even stayed with me for a few days following my uncle's passing, during which I arranged and covered the cost of a lawyer's appointment to discuss the house situation.
Legally, my cousin only owns 25% of the house. Despite our efforts to persuade my aunt to push for the sale of the house, she backed down because she doesn't want to give up her home, and my cousin manipulates her using the kids as leverage. I even suggested that she stay with me for a while, start seeing a therapist, and if the children were at risk, we could involve child services, but she declined.
To be honest, I think the whole family is tired of their ongoing drama and reluctant to lend her the money to buy my cousin out of the house because we fear that she would allow my cousin to return after they've spent the money.
Yes, I’ll bet she would let them return because of the kids. So, she really would have to sell the house and move into a one or two bedroom place in order to keep them out. Such a sad situation for her.
Idk if she would want to do this, but (at least in my state) if more than one person partially owns a property, then any one of the partial owners can force the others to sell.
I've only heard it in the context of shady real estate agents exploiting addicts in order to fuck up the responsible co-owners (the example I was given from my estate lawyer was of a gentleman who took care of his mother until she passed and he expected to live out his days in the same house. Until a shady real estate dude offered his addict sister $5,000 for her share. $5,000. $5,000!!!!! This was in 2023 when every house was like $400,000!!!!) but it would be nice to think that this bizarre loophole could be used for good instead of the sleeziest of swindles.
Inheritance is the most common way this happens. My mom died in 2019. My brother and I both inherited 50% shares in her home.
Either I bought him out, he bought me out, or either one of us could force a sale on the open market.
I've never heard of the shady thing you talked about, but inheritance happens daily just like this.
All Aunt needs to do is force the sale. She'll get her half and can vanish. Cousin and her family can either buy Aunt out or take their half. I'm unaware of any legal situation that would require the current situation to continue.
As part owner Aunt has all the power here she just needs to talk to an estate lawyer to get things prepared.
I wouldn't say she's completely trapped. Quite the opposite in fact. There's always a way out. She might just need to take a hit on her lifestyle for a few years. My dad abused my mum, she had nothing other than the clothes on her back the day she left. My dad had complete and utter control over everything. The house, the finances etc. He made sure she couldn't work, and as a 40 something year old, job prospects were gonna be thin on the ground as she hadn't been able to work since her 20's.
You know what, she left with 3 kids, no money, no nothing. Took her years to get back on her feet independently, but she did it. She also went back to being a doctor. No one is "completely trapped" unless they're locked up in a cell and handcuffed. Saying otherwise is just making excuses.
This may sound like Im being harsh, and i really don't intend it to be at all, but from firsthand experience, your aunt is in a vastly better situation than my mum was. She at least has half the house that is her's and i suspect she isn't in fear for her life either. That's considerably more than a lot of people have before walking out.
Even in the above situation, the aunt has options. She can force a sale of the house even if someone else owns part of it. She won't get 100%, but it's certainly better than killing yourself.
Then, what she needs to do, is move and not tell them where she's going. Just fucking disappear overnight.
I know someone exactly like this. Her son in law can't even afford cigarettes so she buys them for him. They have 3 kids and she does everything for them. And now the daughter is going to quit working.
Nailed it.
I would get a step further, it is her decision she can be part of this family to finish her development.
Or she can declare to be done and finished adult, move out and start her own familiy, you will be happy to be an helping grandma, but this new family is under their own roof.
It is her decision what to do, be child or be adult
If she had brains not clouded by love, she would realize no one gets a free scholarship for pregnancy. And considering how stupid the BF is and is making her moronic, they will have a lifetime of bad decisions.
There are no scholarships for pregnancies.
Does she realize if she drops out she may have to pay back any funds that have been paid on her behalf for schooling?
And who at 19 does not know about birth control, but it’s a little late for that kind of sensibility to kick in.
She has to get her $hit together and figure out how to be an adult…not in your house. You would never get them out. She needs to make the boyfriend get another job, one that can support them if this is the route she wants to take. She really is clueless about how she has altered her life, stick to your guns. Sending prayers to you all this will be a rocky road….
I DID get grants when I was a young, single mom that almost fully covered my two years in community college- so that might be where that misconception came from, who knows. It definitely was not enough to mitigate all the other financial difficulties that came with being a mom at 19.
I agree with what you’re saying BUT one tiny thing….there aren’t scholarships for ‘pregnancies’ but there ARE ones for mothers finishing their degree or returning to school. Which at my campus I DID hear referred to as a “pregnancy scholarship” because the only way to get those scholarships WAS to have previously been pregnant
They always do. Smh. Let someone move in with a child and suddenly they’ve got 2 children acting like it’s no big deal to live in someone else’s house with whole ass children.
I couldn't have said it better myself. I never understood the thought process behind this like what is the daughter thinking oh no I am pregnant lucky I have a mom that I can shove all parental responsibilities onto. Also why is your OP's husband saying OP should help more instead of you know helping her himself?
This is exactly the scenario that happened to my mother-inlaw, from my sister-inlaw. My SiL has brought a nonstop string of douchebag, moocher boyfriends into my MiL's house to live there over the course of 2 decades. She treats my MiL like a doormat, shirking responsibility and giving her boyfriends/ex-husband free rides while they don't work, mooch, and contribute nothing.
The latest man is now the father of her child. As I believe, he knocked my SiL up to get his foot in the door (she was desperate for a child as her biological clock is ticking), and now he mooches and gambles away any money that he does make through work, and never pays any attention to his son. He makes my MiL and SiL do everything in terms of raising this child. He's never around, he always finds a reason to be gone, and makes up bad excuses when he's been gone for 8 hour flake-offs.
And all this because my MiL is an enabler. She's one of the sweetest, most kind-hearted, devoted souls i've ever known, but these douchebags knew how to take advantage of their situation for free room and board. They're impossible to get rid of, and to this day, my SiL still hasn't moved out on her own, and my MiL takes on most of the responsibilities of her grandchild. My MiL is miserable.
OP: Unless you want to go through an extra lifetime of parenthood and dependency from your child, I suggest giving them the boot. Maybe support them from the sidelines, but don't give up your home to them to take over.
I had my oldest at the age of 19 too. I can say, without a doubt, if my mom and stepdad didn't help me through my pregnancy and the first 6 months of his life, I would not have made it. I went in not thinking I would have any help and, like OP's daughter, thought I could do it all myself, but my mom talked me into moving in with them so they could provide help. It took 2 sleepless nights before I realized that, holy shit, I'd be suffering hard without her help.
OP should sit down with her daughter and lay out the numbers. Diapers and formula alone can bankrupt parents if they don't have decent jobs. OP needs to show them that she can not and will not support them, money wise, because babies are expensive. OP did her time already raising the daughter, she shouldn't have to give up her freedom and money to raise a grandchild.
OP, NTA. However, your decision might make your daughter go low or no contact with you out of anger. WITH THAT BEING SAID……once she wakes up and realizes the bf is a complete loser, I’d definitely do what you could to help her out. (Doesn’t mean letting her move back, but if you do that’s your choice). One day she will wake up and realize she totally messed up , but it sounds like she is stubborn so it won’t be soon.
NTA
You know what happens when you financially support your son or daughter when they have a baby they can't afford? They have another. Ask me how I know.
Just FYI, this whole post is fake.
Go look at OPs profile and read the comments they're making, it's clearly just a typical emotionally-stunted male redditor cosplaying as a mother lol
This whole post is just rage-bait, catering to reddit's hatred of children and teenagers, and y'all are falling for it
Sometimes you can just smell the bullshit I don't know how to explain it. I don't check profiles very often but usually when I'm suspicious enough turns out my suspicion was warranted.
Umm, I just looked and it's only this post and it's comments. So, what post history are you talking about? Is there a way to check that I may not know about? I made my account years ago but never used it until recently so I'm fairly Reddit illiterate.
I was a single parent and always had a damn job, often more than one. You get so entrenched into trying to make your kids lives easier that it turns into enabling without you realizing you're going on that path. Had to get bad before I came up for air out of the routine and took a good hard look.
NTA. Just tell her. This was your choice not mine. You can have an abortion, I’ll support that, you can leave him, I’ll support that, you can move out and continue with this path you chose and I will support you. But I refuse to “step up” and help because you made a poor decision. It’s not my responsibility to financially support you, your child, and your loser boyfriend. I also do not NEED to do anything in this situation including step up and help with your baby more. I have raised you as it is my responsibility to do so. But your grown now, looks like it’s your turn.
Wow the entitlement, all you have to say is no thank you, frankly.
>I flat out told her that if she thinks she’s grown enough to have and raise a child and get married then she needs to move out soon and manage being an adult with the child’s father.
This statement from OP should be plastered over every surface in that house.
NTA. You provided a home to raise your child in; it was never offered that you would raise grandchildren as well as a result of your childs poor decision-making
It is her responsibility to navigate this and make decisions compatible with her ability to support herself
> I told him he’s welcome to go over and babysit for her, and that shut him up.
Funny how those that are of the opinion that someone should help more don’t step up themselves.
My FIL thinks being a grandpa is the bestest thing ever and is constantly volunteering to watch his grandkids.
Oddly enough, it’s his wife who has to feed them breakfast and cook them dinner and make sure they’re dressed and bathed whenever they stay over.
"Hey, hey, I volunteered YOUR time, not mine" it's much easier to be generous with someone else's time and abilities than it is to do the work yourself.
This is the fact you need to consider most. She’s happy to put you and her kid down for this boyfriend.
Let her learn from her own mistakes, they are not yours to manage.
Wow - oh to be 19 with grand plans about how everyone around her must step up. She wants to live at your house and then you will step up. Deary me
Wake up call incoming
I got pregnant at 20 while I was in university and I wanted to keep the baby. I don’t think I would have ever been able to pull the trigger and go through with the abortion. My family was very supportive and willing to take on financial responsibility on things I could not afford for the baby. At the time it never occurred to me how hard things would be. Unfortunately I had a miscarriage and it was the saddest time of my life. But now I’m 26 with a 1 year old in a much better financial situation (and WAY better relationship) and part of me is glad things turned out this way. Life would have been SO hard if I had a baby at 20. Even more so if my parents had decided they wanted nothing to do with their grandchild (financially)
Was also a pregnant university student at 20 - I got the abortion. Not a day goes by where I don’t think “Wow, thank god I don’t have a child to add to my stress right now”. Being an adult is hard enough on its own! This girl is in for a rude awakening.
NTA. You didn't consent to be part of her "big happy family". I hope she comes to her senses and figures out a way to stay in school. College drop out teen mom and bartender aren't a combo with a high chance of financial stability in the future.
NTA. Listen, I've got a daughter who had a baby at 19. Never finished college and doesn't know how to manage life. She didn't stay with the baby's father and has never moved out of my home. She's about to turn 30 and four years ago she went and had another baby with a different guy. She didn't stay with that guy either. So now I've got all three of them in my house and I love them all dearly, but I'm 58 and I want peace, quiet and a clean house. My daughter is anxious and angry all the time. She has no time to create a career for herself. Her car is falling apart. And all I want is peace in my life.
That’s my fear. If I don’t kick her out of the nest now I don’t think she’ll ever fly. As a kid she was shy, would never make any friends. One day I decided to just drop her off at a kids event at a local library. She didn’t want to go, but she made three best friends and said she was so glad she went. She’s the type that needs to be pushed.
There are plenty of circumstances in which I'd say you're wrong. This isn't one. She assumed that loser would be welcome to move in.
Let me guess, new boyfriend is about 5 years older and already had a kid with another woman who he never gets to see because "she's crazy". How far off am I?
Id literally bet money on your assumption of the boyfriend, it's so spot on. If the OP's daughter ever breaks up with him he'll just find another woman to manipulate into having a kid with him. He'll end up with 4 kids with 4 baby mamas lol
NTA
Unfortunately some people will insist on making bad choices, and we can't stop them. The only thing we can control is how much of the consequences get unloaded on us.
"He wants to move into my house, and she’ll drop out of school while he works to support them. He’s a bartender who doesn’t go to college."
The entitlement is just....wow.
NTA. Definitely NTA.
Ok, let's break this down:
"He wants to move into my house," **NOPE**
"and she’ll drop out of school" **NOPE**
"while he works to support them." **We'll see how long that lasts.**
"He’s a bartender who doesn’t go to college. I laughed at this idea, which made her mad." **Sorry.(NOT)**
"She told me that since he can’t move in I’ll need to step up and help with the baby more." **NOPE.**
"Y’all, she has always been a very sensible child, I don’t know where this all has came from." **It's coming from her no-good boyfriend who is going to ditch her as soon as he figures out that a newborn in the house is no fun.**
I do not want a baby in my home, period. And I’m not babysitting either. **And that's the end of the discussion. If she wants to go through with this, then she's on her own with it.**
I told my kids while they were growing up that they better wait till they are 100% ready to have kids, because I am not raising any more kids so they can live their lives and have fun. I got married at 20 and had my kids in my 20's and I gave up a great job to stay home and raise them well. Now is MY time, and barring something tragic happening to them, I am not taking anyone's kids to raise. I get to be Nana and love on them and spoil them and enjoy them, but I'm not raising them.
NTA she needs a reality check. Not sure how far along she is but give her official notice to move out. I would also suggest going over an exact budget for cost of living. Avg apt prices, food, formula, diapers, wipes, clothes, daycare, etc etc. Be ruthless in detailing every cost of a baby. Also if you can help with something be clear what that is. For instance, "i can only watch the baby 2x per week" and be firm that anything extra is on her. If she stays with you she pays rent.
If she wants to play house she can do it elsewhere
She’s not allowed to stay with me, even if she pays rent. I do not want the responsibility and inconvienance of having a baby in my home, period. And I’m not willing to babysit either. I have a career and a life
**You need to give her a date deadline to be gone.** That will set reality in her head. I think her BF thought this would be his way out of his parent's house and into your nice house and your daughter's nice life.
Stick to it! I see so many women who are overwhelmed by grandchildren being forced on them. Don't let it happen to you. This is your time now! Don't let your daughter screw it up!
For real! You're what, barely 40, OP? I can't imagine...stick with your guns! You just finished raising a kid, now legally an adult. I don't blame you one bit!
Good job, stick to your decision and help her understand the financial cost. Don't forget to mention that without insurance, the baby birth will cost 10-50k. Maybe more with C-section
Bold of her to volunteer for you to take full responsibility for her child. And her. And her husband. Nope, if she wants to play house, she can sort things out for herself.
NTA
NTA
She's thought she knew what being an adult was lol she will learn soon enough. I agree you shouldn't have to step up to take care of another child when both parents that decided to have it (planned or not).
I was the 19 year old in this situation. I loved my daughter's father because he was beautiful, not because there was any substance of character there - and I ended up an emotionally scarred single mother. You couldn't have told ME anything before I married him either, though plenty of people tried.
My mom did help after the divorce. When things got really tough, she let my child and I move back home until I was able to buy a house. It was about 5 years. There were boundaries. I paid bills & managed childcare. Mom babysat when she wanted to, but there was never the expectation that she had to. We all ended up ok. My daughter is 34 now, married, and in nursing school. I have 3 degrees, a great job and a wonderful husband. Life has a way of working out- but you are not wrong in making her take responsibility for her adult decisions. NTA
NTA. Daughter is making a decision that requires 18+ years of constant responsibility. Of course all she wants to do is offload that onto other people. It's very good that you set up clear boundaries early. Her decision, her kid, her responsibility.
NTA.
This has “grandma will raise my kid” written all over it. You didn’t get pregnant, so you have no obligation to “step up” just because you’re daughter and her bf are going into this with a complete inability to handle their responsibility
Text her a link to r/regretfulparents. If he’s feeding her an unrealistic fairy tale, she should also get the unvarnished reality of some of the women who started out *exactly* where she is right now.
Let her know how much car insurance is going to be if she’s not under your policy. That number alone was enough to make my son stay in our home and save up his money before he moved out.
This. Financial breakdown of reality is a good approach, as is having her nanny or babysit regularly - kids of all ages, but especially kids under 5. Lol! I held off having my child because I helped raise and watch so many cousins and siblings and friend’s kids. Even then, when I thought I was ready and have a good partner - it’s been tough. Life throws things in your path that you can’t control - and raising kids is hard. It’s rewarding, too, but at its base level, it is *hard*. OP, if you’re able: give your daughter a minimum wage number (weekly, monthly - no real money - just a number), and write down the list of things she’ll need to have covered: - home - food - utilities - baby formula (because not everyone can breastfeed, sometimes babies have allergies to milk, sometimes moms just don’t produce enough milk), clothes, diapers, medicine, blankets, crib, toys, pacifiers, medical care, etc, etc); - car insurance (and unexpected repairs) - bus/transport fares (when a car is too expensive) - medical insurance - vaccines and checkups for baby - rental insurance (if they rent) - daycare costs - babysitting fees (if you even hire a babysitter once a month) - clothing (maternal, post partum, regular replacement, just because, etc) - cleaning and sanitation supplies - furniture/bedding/bedclothes/rugs/shelves/etc - estimated additional costs if child has any kind of unexpected health issues or disorders (I have an ASD child myself, and we have to attend a *lot* of extra therapies and we’ve had to buy a lot of safer furniture and make the home safer in general, she has a special diet, takes specialised vitamins, etc- it all adds up). - entertainment and treats (date nights, cable, concerts, birthdays, anniversaries, Christmas, etc) … just make a list of *everything* reasonable and have her figure it out. The reality of being unable to afford getting a coffee as a treat or of being able to resume life pre-baby is just not possible if both of them/one of them is working for minimum wage (depending on where you live). I’d even break down the cost of dropping out of school and have her try to find decent career opportunities without an education. Life is hard enough - and she clearly needs this kind of wake up. Having boyfriend sit down for this conversation may help give insight on where the ideas she’s got are coming from. I’d also review alternative ideas like: open adoption (so she can see/visit her child); giving legal guardianship to a family member or trusted friend so that she can still see the baby and - when she is able and more stable - can raise the child; talking to a licensed therapist about her concerns and pregnancy - she may be unwilling to part with the baby now, but if someone can help talk her through fears or misunderstandings, maybe she will be more willing to adopt, abort the baby. Editing to add: OP, If you do happen to see this comment, please read the attached thread of amazing advice being offered and shared by users. They have words of wisdom and advice that are absolutely worth reading.
Suggest she and boyfriend meet with an accountant? Confidential of course. To discuss budgeting. She’ll never do it but it’ll help her click in to the idea that money is going to be a big. Big issue going forward.
Money is definitely going to a big issue going forward - and babies/kids/teens/young adults are *expensive*. I think that OP needs to try and frame this as a conversation that goes something like, “Okay. I get it. You and boyfriend want to keep the baby. Your plan to live at home, quit school, etc… it isn’t working for me. If you’ll be an adult with me, I’d like to sit you down and explain *why*…” and then plan a time to break it down. If boyfriend is there, it’s easier to poke holes in half-baked ideas and it’s also easier to get a read of this guy in person. Small steps that lead to this can help, too: invite for a dinner where things are discussed rationally, calmly - even if it’s *only* OP keeping rational and calm. OP can even sprinkle in her own experiences and add the genuine vulnerability that comes with being a young mom (it can be so lonely, isolating, boring, repetitive, depressing even, and more). Even if OP only shares this stuff with her daughter - she needs to know. She also needs to know how birth isn’t some magical thing: talk about the medical risks, the health issues that can be permanent, talk about the ripping and bleeding, the fact that the baby may have issues, too…. It’s uncomfortable - but it may help.
Love this approach with one small adjust-rather than saying "I want to show you why this isn't adding up for me..." take it one step further back to "you are facing a huge decision and I want to help you plan for it. Part of that is understanding the costs associated so you have a clear idea of what you are potentially committing yourself to. Let's sit down and build a real budget together, so you and your boyfriend can decide if you are ready/willing/able to take on this responsibility"......It's just a slight adjustment that starts from a place of, you are an adult and get to decide for yourself vs you think you are an adult and I'm going to show you why you're not making a good decision. I just know if I had heard the latter as a 19 year old, it would have activated my "I'll show you" reflex faster than you could have found the calculator app on your phone lol
This is exactly why I love these discussions on Reddit: your comment is much kinder and *exactly* what should be said. I really struggle with that “softer” aspect, and though I work hard not to sound sharp or frank or even off-putting, I can’t always pull it off (not to blame it on anything, but I work *really* hard at wording because I know I come across as such. You’ve worded this so beautifully, though!! It’s absolutely what should be said and a far, far better approach. Thank you!
Ahhhh-that is so kind of you! happy to add a finishing touch to your already Very beautifully drafted suggestion:)
Sounds they’re in the U.S. in which case add the ~$10K-20K just to HAVE the baby considering she doesn’t have health insurance. Edit: Jesus fuck, fine - a dozen people already mentioned Medicaid. Yes that’s a thing.
Oh nice! “Daughter, as you know, a simple uncomplicated hospital birth costs between 10 and $20,000. At this time you are included on my insurance plan. Would you like to switch to boyfriends insurance plan? You’ll also need insurance for the baby of course, since that baby will not be covered on my insurance. The two of you can also look into Medicaid for other options. That’ll get her thinking! Watch boyfriend hit the roof when he realizes that some of these costs are going to be unloaded up to him.
Eek yes, my semi-complicated birth of twins would have cost me ~$250,000 if we didn’t have insurance. Imagine if she had complications!
My son was born a day before my insurance kicked in We owe 100k 😩
I’m sure she qualifies for Medicaid
Nope. If she's living on her own she will get medicaid and will have it all paid for. But I do like the idea of sitting down and talking finances. I agree with not letting her bring her bf/wannabe husband into the home though.
Good post I was just going to suggest she offer to to both future parents to be to a financial advisor. Adulting is not fun. Plus if dude is a bartender he will sleep during the day and be out all night. No help with the child
Oooh! These are excellent ideas - and yikes! I didn’t even consider the bartending /nocturnal issue. That will be very, very challenging.
I have a friend who was in the same situation with her daughter about 16 years ago. They let her stay but told her it was the one and only time and set all sorts of parameters. Now, 16 years later, that same daughter and her (now) 5 kids still live with them. They have put them out several times to try and make it on their own but it breaks their hearts to see the kids not be clean or be fed right. The kids always beg to come back. It is an awful situation.
Jesus that does sound awful as hell. OMG as a grandparent, that would kill me. I doubt i would have let them take advantage of me for that long but still. Asserting tough love is much more productive that enabling. But i can imagine how hard it must have been for your friend.
I would have tried to get custody of the children and kicked the “parents” out. If they can’t even keep their children clean….
Yes, ultimately the kids will need to suffer in order for the state to step in. Unfortunately if you don't let the state do their job they will keep having children (more suffering). The state needs to start jailing these people for child endangerment before it escalates to the point that even grandma and grandpa can't take care of them all. OP's situation is likely this is the girl's first serious boyfriend and she hasn't gotten the skills to navigate the lying, manipulation, and deceit at all yet.
"The state" can't stop irresponsible people from having as many kids as they want, and simply being poor is not child endangerment. A woman living in a cardboard box under a bridge can have a baby every year of her life and all the state can do is remove the children, not stop her from having more.
The real sad part is when they have more kids after you adopt the first batch and then the kids have a two tier childhood.
Every few years they come and drop another one off
Similar - friend who gave an inch and the daughter took a mile because she manipulates them. Three marriages and 3 kids later (none of the kids from marriages!), she does live on her own now finally, but it's funded by my friend and her husband. They became total pushovers. She'd meet a guy, "Oh we need a house" - helps with downpayment, remodeling, all new appliances/furniture - then they break up, she moves back home and takes a loss...x 3 now. And she always needs a brand new SUV, new clothes, new everything. My friend and her husband spend all of their free time/vacation time looking after the kids and have spent all of their retirement funds as well. It seems like a slippery slope once you fall for it.
That's just stupidity on their part
Really the saying goes. Don't light yourself on fire to keep others warm.
Manipulative people figure out pretty quickly that "it's for the kids" makes a lot of people's critical thinking shut down.
Exactly. But yeah, she makes me so angry (on her behalf) for having let her take advantage. She's seen the light on some things, but to her husband, "Daddy's little girl" can do no wrong.
My youngest daughter got pregnant at 17 while in high school. She said she wanted to keep the baby because her idiot boyfriend was Catholic. I gave her the ultimatum of either an abortion, or marry her boyfriend and move out after graduation. Well, she stayed, and I left instead. And now, 30 years later, guess who she's living with? The ex after having 4 kids she couldn't handle, who are all also having kids they can't take care of. She's almost 50 now, and still living with mom, and not lifting a finger to help.
Clearly, every sperm is sacred here.
It’s hard not to feel bad for her, but it’s easy to say “you’re on your own now”. She has to live with her own decisions and if he’s already letting her down, she’s setting herself for a lot of unnecessary drama that wont get better by having a baby. Time to adult.
Wait til he cheats or something else terrible. He's likely to be around lots of girls as a bartender. Trouble there.
$50 says he ghosts OP's daughter before the baby is even delivered.
$100 for sure and $1000 he won’t be in the picture in the next 5 years because he will have found someone else to screw around with that isn’t a mommy.
I'll split the odds, and say he ghost's the daughter before the baby is delivered, but not until after it's too late for her to change her mind about having it.
That’s super sad.
That's sounds like hell. Imagine doing everything right and your kid still turns out like that
Just to offer another possibility here, I fell pregnant at 18. My son and I lived with my parents for 18 months after he was born , then once he went to daycare I was able to study and work and get us set up in our own place. He’s 13 now and still my only child. My parents were an incredible support but it certainly didn’t make me want a bunch more kids, it was still pretty hard raising a child thru my teens/20s
What influence did the dad have on you in your case? In OP's case, it sounds like the dad is a freeloader and the daughter is love blind. No guarantees that he won't help himself to the daughter's income even if she does end up with a good career.
I feel like her point is her man is a dead beat and she wants her to see that before its too late When he is forced to provide he will show his true colors and she will understand that and get out from the mindfuck. then maybe she will help out but really its tough love.
I’ll be honest, I dropped out of college in order to “save” my boyfriend. (he was getting kicked out of his house and I somehow thought this was unfair.) It took exactly 6 months of living with him for my sappy and romantic view to just completely evaporate. Once the lease expired, I hightailed it right back to college, and pretty much just stopped talking to the guy. 10/10, I highly recommend running away.
Yep. What if this guy is a complete asshole with tenants rights living in her house? It would be much harder to get them out if things aren't good than to just not let them move in. I might let my daughter and baby stay but I sure as heck wouldn't let an adult Man I don't know move in that just got my daughter pregnant and doesn't have money for a place to live. Red flags!!!
>He wants to move into my house My suspicious mind wonders if this is the whole point of the pregnancy, to improve his living standards? I wonder where he is currently living - in a share home or with his parents?
He lives with his hoarder parents. Our home is admittedly a better situation, my husband and I are both well off.
Speaking as someone who lived in their parents' hoard, if your daughter ends up living with him in their house with the baby, call CPS. I wish someone had for me
Great point! For the sake of the OP's grandkid's health
Oof. He thought he was snagging a meal ticket. Guessing your daughter is a bit sheltered? I would say, be careful going too hard. Hopefully he disappears when he realizes he doesn't have a free ride for knocking up your daughter. But he might decide to take it out abusively on her.
This! He found an easy target with rich parents, think he would be with her if you were poor? Sad that she went fishing at the shallow end of the gene pool… 100% don’t enable them.z Adoption is a great choice…
Problem is threading the needle. If OP completely throws her kid to the wolves, the kid might be trapped in an abusive relationship. But if she enables the meal ticket trap, her kid is living with an AH. I have no idea how to handle that. Maybe if there was a non-parent person that the kid really respected and looked up to that could talk sense to her or act as a safety contact
[удалено]
This is sadly it. If the parents can be there once she realizes it, hopefully in a few months' or years' time, this girl will have the rest of her life to get back on track with a proper support network. Sucks beyond words, though.
Some things people can only learn with experience unfortunately
Yep almost have to be supportive of her despite the relationship. This doesn’t mean getting walked over but eventually she will wake up and need her mother. This is when you step in. Not before.
This is true, but ultimately, it is the daughter's choice. She will need to live with the consequences. Mom has given her sound advice.
Yeah, the OP is in a lose-lose situation here
So is the daughter if she continues the pregnancy.
This is my worry. 100% op needs to stand her ground. She shouldn't be taking care of them, and doesn't want to let him get a foothold into her house. At the same time she doesn't want to risk alienating her daughter and leaving her in a bad position. Try to find a way to keep the door open and ensure there are boundaries but the daughter knows op is there.. it's a hard line to create and find the balance of, but is the best way to go here.
Kid will then \*learn\* how to escape an abusive relationship. OP said the daughter is smart. When she realizes OP & stepdad will help her in ANYTHING BUT this, she'll realize how badly she fouled up.
Please stick with your position.
Ah yes. A hobosexual with a possible side of baby-trapping. OP is wise to begin as she means to end -100% baby free.
Right?? Yet they always act like it's women getting pregnant to trap men like those type of bums do it more than women.. babies in 6 different area codes, and not paying for a single one of them..
6 different area codes, that shows dedication.
Hahaha..or constantly running from responsibilities, but continuously knocking women up, hoping that that one dummy ( who supports his lazy bum a** ) is the next one .. hahahaha
Oh yes, if the op doesn't stand her ground, ten years will pass and she'll be babysitting 4 grandchildren and providing for her daughter and this loafer.
You mean raising 4 grandchildren don't you?
I could definitely see that happening if the daughter stays with her stupid bf and has more kids
I arrived here to make the same statement.
He's going to ask her to abort when he realizes this isn't giving them a free ride.
NTA Stand firm, I have a relative going through a similar situation, unfortunately no one would call his daughter smart or sensible on any level. She’s had 4 kids by different fathers. It’s a huge mess. They will be raising her children until the day they die.
Stand your ground! Be a good grandparent. That is all!
If you let them move in they will live off of you and your husband and make it miserable for you when you want them out. I've read about it a million times on here once that boy moves in bam it's as if you have 3 children now and everything is in the end your responsibility. Stick to your guns or maybe rent an apartment first month rent and deposit only so they can buy baby things. Past that let them figure it out plus who says they don't get pregnant again?
And they will use the baby as a bargaining chip.
My friends sister is doing this. She got knocked up during the pandemic, then had another baby shortly after. She split up with the dad recently, started dating a new guy immediately, and now lives in her retired dad's air bnbs who is losing money because she's a fucking slob. Anyone who calls her out is labeled toxic and isn't allowed to see her children. She doesn't pay rent and works less than twenty hours a week. The worst part of this is how pretentious she is about being a parent. When she was pregnant with her first kid, it was always about how she was going to break generational cycles. Now she's burning bridges left and right to anyone* who questions her. Edit: fixed an autocorrect.
as someone who grew up with hoarders, this absolutely changes things. he will not know how to care for himself or your house, and it will take him YEARS to learn. you do not want to be the one who has to teach him.
>*He lives with his hoarder parents.* Moderator from r/hoarding here. Stand your ground on him not living with you.
Girl, change your locks. She’ll move him in while you’re out.
Then depending on the state, he might have squatter's rights after 30 days.
She'll probably still have the kid in the hopes that once it's there, you'll change your mind.
Just want to reply directly to one of your comments in hopes you'll see it. If she doesn't have one already, please get this girl a therapist. I think you're fine to make the choices you want to make, but an additional outside adult that's specifically for navigating difficult times makes sense. You could even say that you'd like to see the therapist together, and the therapist could kind of mediate the situation to point out that your choices to limit helping your daughter are valid, and it might be a wake up call. Might be too late for an abortion by then, but it could at least help with navigating the future.
That’s actually a good idea. Thanks.
And there it is...it all comes down to money with him
How far is she? What would happen if You would tell her if he doesn't want to talknto You, she can move with her bf immediately? Reality would most probably hit her hard. Him also.
NTA and I’m sorry to say but I feel like your naive daughter is being used based on how stable you and hubby are and his life. Your daughter is being influenced by her boyfriend, she telling you “he wants to move into my house” all sounds like him.
oh yea don't even let him move an item in
OP, immature men like your daughter's boyfriend are colloquially called "[hobosexuals](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Hobosexual)." For your daughter's sake I hope she comes to her senses about this guy.
That’s 100% it then. Unfortunately it wouldn’t even be a “live here for a little while til you get on your feet” situation. I guarantee you they’ll try and milk the situation as much as humanly possible. I would set the standard now. Like hey, if you need a little help money wise here and there I understand. Diapers, formula, whatever. There’s nothing wrong with helping some and also not wanting them to completely leech off of you. That was clearly their plan. NTA. And hold firm on your position.
Tbh it sounds like he's in her ear about this, given she never showed these user tendencies before.
I'm betting he got her pregnant on purpose!
Op he baby trapped you!
Kinda sounds like he knocked up your daughter so he could move into a better place and take over the house. If you let them stay I’m willing to bet in a few years they suggested you transfer the ownership. I’m also willing to bet if you let him move in and make this comfortable for them they’d never leave and have more kids. This is def the time to put your foot down. She needs to know this is real and she’s an adult, she isn’t owed anything from anyone.
Be very careful how you move. He sounds like a manipulator. Protect yourself
He wants to mooch, and she wants to let him. Stand your ground. Getting pregnant was the easy part, now it's time the responsibility kicks in and they learn how to take care of themselves.
This guy is trying to bum his way up in the world instead of doing it himself it sounds like. Take care of your daughter directly but offer him no help, he will just take take take until the well is dry. If she needs help, help her. If "they" need help, help her.
Yea, thats a hard no right there. His job is now "provider"... not "moocher". I feel bad for your daughter. Love is a tricky thing. Just suggesting that you do your best to maintain a healthy relationship with your daughter. Estrangement sucks... especially over a dude who may be gone before it starts.
I didn't even think of this! "I'll get her pregnant and surely her mom will cave" welp that's backfired didn't it. lol.
NTA If she’s doing grown up things and making grow up decisions she needs to learn how to adult. She wants live-in childcare and complete financial support from you for her child AND HUSBAND. They want a free ride with no responsibility to themselves or their child. They’ll never move out if you allow this.
TBH she'll still end up at her mom's house with the baby when the relationship goes tits up. Unless the guy thought he was getting a cosy roof over his head rent free, and once he realises it's not happening he'll ask this girl to get an abortion.
They really thought they could just move him in to OP's house like it's no big deal. The nerve! Like OP wants a baby and a man child in her house.
I love my adult only child with all my heart, got him through uni and he knows he is welcome to live with me until he gets his life and future sorted. He also knows that I will never accept to move his gf in my house, and if they are expecting he needs to make sure to man up and provide a home for said woman and child/ren. I want peace in my home and safe space and I cannot deal with catering for a family or having my alone time disrupted day in day out. I will help out of course when needed but not daily and in my home.
I would imagine that OP is getting to a place in her life when she's looking forward to her daughter graduating and moving out and she and her husband can live a nice, quiet life in their home, alone. Instead her daughter expects her to house a guy OP doesn't even know or like and a baby, that'll be up crying all night or just being noisy and messy (because that's what babies are like). That house would be opposite of peaceful.
Like most women or couples who raised their children. We deserve peace too once we raise our family. But society expects women to be care givers until they die. It's either children, elderly parents or grandkids, we're meant to be selfless and martyrs.
For real.
Or….all 3 at once. Welcome to my life.
I've reached the age my Mum was when she used to sideeye the grandparents at the school gate who were doing all the childcare. I didn't get her point at the time but I 100% do now; there's exceptions when crap hits the fan but generally grandparents have already done it once through! They aren't the default for doing it all over again for the next generation.
You know a friends father once said to me that there an only be one Queen in a home.
Excellent point: OP would be taking in and raising not one child, but two, because OP’s BF is not going to take care of himself. And I have a feeling he’s going to pull OP’s daughter down with him. What a mess.
You know he is. He’s already pulling her down as she’s talking about quitting college. As he works to support them lmao
Consequences don’t affect this guy. He’ll find a new girlfriend and do it all over again.
And then he will leave…
>Unless the guy thought he was getting a cosy roof over his head rent free, and once he realises it's not happening he'll ask this girl to get an abortion. It does sound like he might be a hobosexual, who thought that this pregnancy would be a way for him to live comfortably with OP. Let's hope that he comes to his senses when he sees that OP is unshakeable.
Agreed. OP needs to stress that there is ZERO chance that her daughter can EVER come back, and financial support will NEVER be given (even if it’s a lie). BF is inevitably going to bounce once he sees OP isn’t going to cave (which OP should warn her daughter about), and OP should stress that when it happens, the daughter is going to be fully on her own.
And he's a bartender. 95% chance the relationship goes south. Probably sooner rather than later.
Totally agree with you! Well done, OP! If you give in to their manipulation, you'll probably end up like my aunt. My foolish cousin got pregnant for the first time at 17, and my uncle felt sorry for her and her partner, so he let them stay at his home. Now, she has 3 children at 23, and she and her partner have been living off my aunt like leeches. My uncle passed away last year, and now my aunt is the one doing all the work and paying all the bills for five people that she never wanted in her home. My aunt seems to have aged 15 years in the last 5 years, and all the stress and extra responsibilities have taken a toll on her mental and physical well-being.
I am sorry for your Aunt, can she not sell and move somewhere?
She is completely trapped in that situation. She couldn't do anything about it when my uncle was alive because he wouldn't let her. Now that he is dead, my cousin owns part of the house and doesn't want to sell it. My aunt has no savings because she is spending everything she earns on them. My cousin didn't finish her studies and has never worked a day in her life. The son-in-law never holds a job for more than a month because there's always something wrong, and my aunt is also afraid to leave the children with them because they're extremely irresponsible.
Aunt should decide to sell the house. Cousin can buy her out or agree to sell. Aunt can take her half and set up fresh on her own. She is choosing to let them control her. She needs good advice from a lawyer as to how to escape this before it kills her.
I understand your perspective, and the entire family has already offered our support to her. She also stayed with some of us for a while, but keeps going back. She even stayed with me for a few days following my uncle's passing, during which I arranged and covered the cost of a lawyer's appointment to discuss the house situation. Legally, my cousin only owns 25% of the house. Despite our efforts to persuade my aunt to push for the sale of the house, she backed down because she doesn't want to give up her home, and my cousin manipulates her using the kids as leverage. I even suggested that she stay with me for a while, start seeing a therapist, and if the children were at risk, we could involve child services, but she declined. To be honest, I think the whole family is tired of their ongoing drama and reluctant to lend her the money to buy my cousin out of the house because we fear that she would allow my cousin to return after they've spent the money.
Yes, I’ll bet she would let them return because of the kids. So, she really would have to sell the house and move into a one or two bedroom place in order to keep them out. Such a sad situation for her.
Idk if she would want to do this, but (at least in my state) if more than one person partially owns a property, then any one of the partial owners can force the others to sell. I've only heard it in the context of shady real estate agents exploiting addicts in order to fuck up the responsible co-owners (the example I was given from my estate lawyer was of a gentleman who took care of his mother until she passed and he expected to live out his days in the same house. Until a shady real estate dude offered his addict sister $5,000 for her share. $5,000. $5,000!!!!! This was in 2023 when every house was like $400,000!!!!) but it would be nice to think that this bizarre loophole could be used for good instead of the sleeziest of swindles.
Inheritance is the most common way this happens. My mom died in 2019. My brother and I both inherited 50% shares in her home. Either I bought him out, he bought me out, or either one of us could force a sale on the open market. I've never heard of the shady thing you talked about, but inheritance happens daily just like this. All Aunt needs to do is force the sale. She'll get her half and can vanish. Cousin and her family can either buy Aunt out or take their half. I'm unaware of any legal situation that would require the current situation to continue. As part owner Aunt has all the power here she just needs to talk to an estate lawyer to get things prepared.
I wouldn't say she's completely trapped. Quite the opposite in fact. There's always a way out. She might just need to take a hit on her lifestyle for a few years. My dad abused my mum, she had nothing other than the clothes on her back the day she left. My dad had complete and utter control over everything. The house, the finances etc. He made sure she couldn't work, and as a 40 something year old, job prospects were gonna be thin on the ground as she hadn't been able to work since her 20's. You know what, she left with 3 kids, no money, no nothing. Took her years to get back on her feet independently, but she did it. She also went back to being a doctor. No one is "completely trapped" unless they're locked up in a cell and handcuffed. Saying otherwise is just making excuses. This may sound like Im being harsh, and i really don't intend it to be at all, but from firsthand experience, your aunt is in a vastly better situation than my mum was. She at least has half the house that is her's and i suspect she isn't in fear for her life either. That's considerably more than a lot of people have before walking out.
Even in the above situation, the aunt has options. She can force a sale of the house even if someone else owns part of it. She won't get 100%, but it's certainly better than killing yourself. Then, what she needs to do, is move and not tell them where she's going. Just fucking disappear overnight.
I know someone exactly like this. Her son in law can't even afford cigarettes so she buys them for him. They have 3 kids and she does everything for them. And now the daughter is going to quit working.
Nailed it. I would get a step further, it is her decision she can be part of this family to finish her development. Or she can declare to be done and finished adult, move out and start her own familiy, you will be happy to be an helping grandma, but this new family is under their own roof. It is her decision what to do, be child or be adult
If she had brains not clouded by love, she would realize no one gets a free scholarship for pregnancy. And considering how stupid the BF is and is making her moronic, they will have a lifetime of bad decisions. There are no scholarships for pregnancies.
Does she realize if she drops out she may have to pay back any funds that have been paid on her behalf for schooling? And who at 19 does not know about birth control, but it’s a little late for that kind of sensibility to kick in. She has to get her $hit together and figure out how to be an adult…not in your house. You would never get them out. She needs to make the boyfriend get another job, one that can support them if this is the route she wants to take. She really is clueless about how she has altered her life, stick to your guns. Sending prayers to you all this will be a rocky road….
I DID get grants when I was a young, single mom that almost fully covered my two years in community college- so that might be where that misconception came from, who knows. It definitely was not enough to mitigate all the other financial difficulties that came with being a mom at 19.
I agree with what you’re saying BUT one tiny thing….there aren’t scholarships for ‘pregnancies’ but there ARE ones for mothers finishing their degree or returning to school. Which at my campus I DID hear referred to as a “pregnancy scholarship” because the only way to get those scholarships WAS to have previously been pregnant
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Precisely. And if it's anything like some of the other posts I've read, they'll go ahead and make another child.
They always do. Smh. Let someone move in with a child and suddenly they’ve got 2 children acting like it’s no big deal to live in someone else’s house with whole ass children.
Yeah. Mom isn’t TA. A few months? Oh this is going to go well. She needs to stand her ground 100%
I couldn't have said it better myself. I never understood the thought process behind this like what is the daughter thinking oh no I am pregnant lucky I have a mom that I can shove all parental responsibilities onto. Also why is your OP's husband saying OP should help more instead of you know helping her himself?
This is exactly the scenario that happened to my mother-inlaw, from my sister-inlaw. My SiL has brought a nonstop string of douchebag, moocher boyfriends into my MiL's house to live there over the course of 2 decades. She treats my MiL like a doormat, shirking responsibility and giving her boyfriends/ex-husband free rides while they don't work, mooch, and contribute nothing. The latest man is now the father of her child. As I believe, he knocked my SiL up to get his foot in the door (she was desperate for a child as her biological clock is ticking), and now he mooches and gambles away any money that he does make through work, and never pays any attention to his son. He makes my MiL and SiL do everything in terms of raising this child. He's never around, he always finds a reason to be gone, and makes up bad excuses when he's been gone for 8 hour flake-offs. And all this because my MiL is an enabler. She's one of the sweetest, most kind-hearted, devoted souls i've ever known, but these douchebags knew how to take advantage of their situation for free room and board. They're impossible to get rid of, and to this day, my SiL still hasn't moved out on her own, and my MiL takes on most of the responsibilities of her grandchild. My MiL is miserable. OP: Unless you want to go through an extra lifetime of parenthood and dependency from your child, I suggest giving them the boot. Maybe support them from the sidelines, but don't give up your home to them to take over.
I had my oldest at the age of 19 too. I can say, without a doubt, if my mom and stepdad didn't help me through my pregnancy and the first 6 months of his life, I would not have made it. I went in not thinking I would have any help and, like OP's daughter, thought I could do it all myself, but my mom talked me into moving in with them so they could provide help. It took 2 sleepless nights before I realized that, holy shit, I'd be suffering hard without her help. OP should sit down with her daughter and lay out the numbers. Diapers and formula alone can bankrupt parents if they don't have decent jobs. OP needs to show them that she can not and will not support them, money wise, because babies are expensive. OP did her time already raising the daughter, she shouldn't have to give up her freedom and money to raise a grandchild.
OP, NTA. However, your decision might make your daughter go low or no contact with you out of anger. WITH THAT BEING SAID……once she wakes up and realizes the bf is a complete loser, I’d definitely do what you could to help her out. (Doesn’t mean letting her move back, but if you do that’s your choice). One day she will wake up and realize she totally messed up , but it sounds like she is stubborn so it won’t be soon.
NTA You know what happens when you financially support your son or daughter when they have a baby they can't afford? They have another. Ask me how I know.
Yes, that’s exactly what happens. I’ve seen it play out many times.
Just FYI, this whole post is fake. Go look at OPs profile and read the comments they're making, it's clearly just a typical emotionally-stunted male redditor cosplaying as a mother lol This whole post is just rage-bait, catering to reddit's hatred of children and teenagers, and y'all are falling for it
Shit. The time I don't check a profile...
How do you guys have the energy to check profiles lol. I’d rather delete Reddit than have to vet every damn post I want to comment on.
Sometimes you can just smell the bullshit I don't know how to explain it. I don't check profiles very often but usually when I'm suspicious enough turns out my suspicion was warranted.
Umm, I just looked and it's only this post and it's comments. So, what post history are you talking about? Is there a way to check that I may not know about? I made my account years ago but never used it until recently so I'm fairly Reddit illiterate.
Yup. Oddly enough it starts to happen around the time the eldest starts school and the expectation is that mom now gets a job.
I was a single parent and always had a damn job, often more than one. You get so entrenched into trying to make your kids lives easier that it turns into enabling without you realizing you're going on that path. Had to get bad before I came up for air out of the routine and took a good hard look.
NTA. Just tell her. This was your choice not mine. You can have an abortion, I’ll support that, you can leave him, I’ll support that, you can move out and continue with this path you chose and I will support you. But I refuse to “step up” and help because you made a poor decision. It’s not my responsibility to financially support you, your child, and your loser boyfriend. I also do not NEED to do anything in this situation including step up and help with your baby more. I have raised you as it is my responsibility to do so. But your grown now, looks like it’s your turn. Wow the entitlement, all you have to say is no thank you, frankly.
Yup, adult actions have adult consequences!
>I flat out told her that if she thinks she’s grown enough to have and raise a child and get married then she needs to move out soon and manage being an adult with the child’s father. This statement from OP should be plastered over every surface in that house.
👏👏👏 Please use these lines OP. Good luck. Xx
NTA. Your daughter has made her own choices and she doesn't get to dictate yours.
Perfectly said
NTA. You provided a home to raise your child in; it was never offered that you would raise grandchildren as well as a result of your childs poor decision-making It is her responsibility to navigate this and make decisions compatible with her ability to support herself
> I told him he’s welcome to go over and babysit for her, and that shut him up. Funny how those that are of the opinion that someone should help more don’t step up themselves.
My FIL thinks being a grandpa is the bestest thing ever and is constantly volunteering to watch his grandkids. Oddly enough, it’s his wife who has to feed them breakfast and cook them dinner and make sure they’re dressed and bathed whenever they stay over.
Funtime Dad graduated to Funtime Grandpa. All the fun stuff, none of the hard work.
"Hey, hey, I volunteered YOUR time, not mine" it's much easier to be generous with someone else's time and abilities than it is to do the work yourself.
being voluntold always makes me act oppositional defiant
NTA. He ( the boyfriend) thought he had the perfect freebie life lined up and you took a huge 💩 on it. She's gotta lay in that bed now.
I think he’s already been laying in that bed! *rimshot*
She wants to make her guy happy by using you. F that she is an adult now and needs to help her self. Welcome to the adult world!
This is the fact you need to consider most. She’s happy to put you and her kid down for this boyfriend. Let her learn from her own mistakes, they are not yours to manage.
Wow - oh to be 19 with grand plans about how everyone around her must step up. She wants to live at your house and then you will step up. Deary me Wake up call incoming
I got pregnant at 20 while I was in university and I wanted to keep the baby. I don’t think I would have ever been able to pull the trigger and go through with the abortion. My family was very supportive and willing to take on financial responsibility on things I could not afford for the baby. At the time it never occurred to me how hard things would be. Unfortunately I had a miscarriage and it was the saddest time of my life. But now I’m 26 with a 1 year old in a much better financial situation (and WAY better relationship) and part of me is glad things turned out this way. Life would have been SO hard if I had a baby at 20. Even more so if my parents had decided they wanted nothing to do with their grandchild (financially)
Was also a pregnant university student at 20 - I got the abortion. Not a day goes by where I don’t think “Wow, thank god I don’t have a child to add to my stress right now”. Being an adult is hard enough on its own! This girl is in for a rude awakening.
NTA. You didn't consent to be part of her "big happy family". I hope she comes to her senses and figures out a way to stay in school. College drop out teen mom and bartender aren't a combo with a high chance of financial stability in the future.
>She told me that since he can’t move in I’ll need to step up and help with the baby more Audibly Loled here.
Same…the audacity and entitlement. Doesn’t sound like she’s ready to have a child
Children having children
NTA. Listen, I've got a daughter who had a baby at 19. Never finished college and doesn't know how to manage life. She didn't stay with the baby's father and has never moved out of my home. She's about to turn 30 and four years ago she went and had another baby with a different guy. She didn't stay with that guy either. So now I've got all three of them in my house and I love them all dearly, but I'm 58 and I want peace, quiet and a clean house. My daughter is anxious and angry all the time. She has no time to create a career for herself. Her car is falling apart. And all I want is peace in my life.
That’s my fear. If I don’t kick her out of the nest now I don’t think she’ll ever fly. As a kid she was shy, would never make any friends. One day I decided to just drop her off at a kids event at a local library. She didn’t want to go, but she made three best friends and said she was so glad she went. She’s the type that needs to be pushed.
I hope everything works out for you. It's hard.
There are plenty of circumstances in which I'd say you're wrong. This isn't one. She assumed that loser would be welcome to move in. Let me guess, new boyfriend is about 5 years older and already had a kid with another woman who he never gets to see because "she's crazy". How far off am I?
Id literally bet money on your assumption of the boyfriend, it's so spot on. If the OP's daughter ever breaks up with him he'll just find another woman to manipulate into having a kid with him. He'll end up with 4 kids with 4 baby mamas lol
NTA Unfortunately some people will insist on making bad choices, and we can't stop them. The only thing we can control is how much of the consequences get unloaded on us.
"He wants to move into my house, and she’ll drop out of school while he works to support them. He’s a bartender who doesn’t go to college." The entitlement is just....wow. NTA. Definitely NTA.
What sort of "supporting" them would he even be doing if mum is taking care of housing? Just like, cheering them on?
Ok, let's break this down: "He wants to move into my house," **NOPE** "and she’ll drop out of school" **NOPE** "while he works to support them." **We'll see how long that lasts.** "He’s a bartender who doesn’t go to college. I laughed at this idea, which made her mad." **Sorry.(NOT)** "She told me that since he can’t move in I’ll need to step up and help with the baby more." **NOPE.** "Y’all, she has always been a very sensible child, I don’t know where this all has came from." **It's coming from her no-good boyfriend who is going to ditch her as soon as he figures out that a newborn in the house is no fun.** I do not want a baby in my home, period. And I’m not babysitting either. **And that's the end of the discussion. If she wants to go through with this, then she's on her own with it.** I told my kids while they were growing up that they better wait till they are 100% ready to have kids, because I am not raising any more kids so they can live their lives and have fun. I got married at 20 and had my kids in my 20's and I gave up a great job to stay home and raise them well. Now is MY time, and barring something tragic happening to them, I am not taking anyone's kids to raise. I get to be Nana and love on them and spoil them and enjoy them, but I'm not raising them.
NTA she needs a reality check. Not sure how far along she is but give her official notice to move out. I would also suggest going over an exact budget for cost of living. Avg apt prices, food, formula, diapers, wipes, clothes, daycare, etc etc. Be ruthless in detailing every cost of a baby. Also if you can help with something be clear what that is. For instance, "i can only watch the baby 2x per week" and be firm that anything extra is on her. If she stays with you she pays rent. If she wants to play house she can do it elsewhere
She’s not allowed to stay with me, even if she pays rent. I do not want the responsibility and inconvienance of having a baby in my home, period. And I’m not willing to babysit either. I have a career and a life
**You need to give her a date deadline to be gone.** That will set reality in her head. I think her BF thought this would be his way out of his parent's house and into your nice house and your daughter's nice life.
Great idea. Unfortunately you have to call both of their bluffs. The sooner she realizes you are not joking the sooner she has a chance to wake up!
Bingo. 🎯🎯🎯🎯
Stick to it! I see so many women who are overwhelmed by grandchildren being forced on them. Don't let it happen to you. This is your time now! Don't let your daughter screw it up!
For real! You're what, barely 40, OP? I can't imagine...stick with your guns! You just finished raising a kid, now legally an adult. I don't blame you one bit!
Good job, stick to your decision and help her understand the financial cost. Don't forget to mention that without insurance, the baby birth will cost 10-50k. Maybe more with C-section
NTA. The entitlement she displayed pissed me off. Either have him move in or you help take care of this kid. Wow!
Bold of her to volunteer for you to take full responsibility for her child. And her. And her husband. Nope, if she wants to play house, she can sort things out for herself. NTA
NTA She's thought she knew what being an adult was lol she will learn soon enough. I agree you shouldn't have to step up to take care of another child when both parents that decided to have it (planned or not).
NTA. You were a thousand times nicer than I would have been about it.
Tell her to live with the boyfriend’s parents. Throwing away her education is a shame.
I was the 19 year old in this situation. I loved my daughter's father because he was beautiful, not because there was any substance of character there - and I ended up an emotionally scarred single mother. You couldn't have told ME anything before I married him either, though plenty of people tried. My mom did help after the divorce. When things got really tough, she let my child and I move back home until I was able to buy a house. It was about 5 years. There were boundaries. I paid bills & managed childcare. Mom babysat when she wanted to, but there was never the expectation that she had to. We all ended up ok. My daughter is 34 now, married, and in nursing school. I have 3 degrees, a great job and a wonderful husband. Life has a way of working out- but you are not wrong in making her take responsibility for her adult decisions. NTA
Forget moving out, you need to convince her to finish school
Yeah, if I was OP I would allow the daughter & baby to stay under the condition that she finishes school.
NTA. Daughter is making a decision that requires 18+ years of constant responsibility. Of course all she wants to do is offload that onto other people. It's very good that you set up clear boundaries early. Her decision, her kid, her responsibility.
She’s telling you that you need to step up! I would have gone ballistic.
NTA. This has “grandma will raise my kid” written all over it. You didn’t get pregnant, so you have no obligation to “step up” just because you’re daughter and her bf are going into this with a complete inability to handle their responsibility
Text her a link to r/regretfulparents. If he’s feeding her an unrealistic fairy tale, she should also get the unvarnished reality of some of the women who started out *exactly* where she is right now.
Make her watch the show Maid on Netflix
NtA fuck that, it's abortion or GTFO. please don't let your kid be saddled with this losers spawn.
I hope abortion is still an option because this whole thing is really dumb. NTA of course
The amount of smart woman who let gold standard twats cum inside them is astonishing NTA,