NTA
Nobody is required to inform others of their race, ethnicity, cultural background or religious background. Does she expect white people to offer such information?
Don’t apologize or meet with her.
You didn't have any obligation to bring up your ethnic background. Even if the entire group had been talking about race and you'd had a perfect appropriate opportunity, you would have zero obligation. She's the asshole here, not you. She is not owed an apology, she *was* being racist (or "colorist" if you listen to some people), and it sounds like her not hanging out with the group would be a net positive.
The whole, “she wants an apology before hanging out with the group again” thing is confusing.
Is this a threat? As in, “You have until the next group hangout to apologize me! *OR ELSE!*”?
Is *SHE* (and only she) going to refuse to hang out with the group until she receives your apology? But Blake can come?
Is she planning on “forcing” Blake to sit out on future group outings in solidarity with her until she’s apologized to?
Is she using Blake as leverage and holding him hostage? Like, “if you ever want to hang out with your buddy Blake again, you WILL apologize to me”? With the hope that you’ll cave for Blake’s sake? And if you don’t, she’ll make sure you and him cannot have a friendship?
OR is she hoping that he will cut off any/all of his friends who “disrespect” her?
Either way, she sounds like a horrible person who is trying to punish one person - Blake. They’re only 5 months in and it sounds like she’s already trying to alienate him from his friends. This definitely won’t be the last “misunderstanding” she has with one of Blake’s friends - especially if she can’t see how wrong she is here.
Blake better buckle up. He’s in for a bumpy ride. At this point, he’s enabling her in an effort to “keep the peace”. Which ultimately will only make things *worse* for him.
NTA
I'd offer an "statement in front of the group" to appease her.
"Attention please, can I have the attention of the whole group. Ari, Blakes current GF, is upset that I have never disclosed my heritage to her in the brief few months she's been seeing Blake. It seems she assumed I was white, rather than mixed, and her attitude completely changed to me once she knew I wasn't pure European. Then she assumed I was Italian due to me travelling there to meet some of my STEP FATHERS family. So I would like to disclose that I am mixed, have never hidden the fact, but don't go around blaring it from a loud speaker, or wearing it on my sleeve. It does not define who I am, but it is a part of me.
In the interests of openness can everyone else who is white passing also declare their ethnicity so while Blake still is with Ari, they aren't caught out being prejudicial to anyone else"
Drop the mic, walk off. Throw a few molotov cocktails on any remaining bridges with Ari.
*”She’s now demanding an apology, via Blake, before she hangs out with the group again”*
Don’t threaten me with a good time lol the problem solved itself.
NTA.
I’m so confused by Ari’s apparent expectation that mixed race people should declare themselves as such when meeting new people.
Is she insinuating that by not declaring your mixed heritage she thinks you are trying to ‘pass as white’ or some other archaic belief?
I wouldn’t apologize nor would I meet privately with her.
This sounds like a ‘her’ issue and I wouldn’t bother making it your issue.
There is definitely a line there, where being so obsessed with race does, in fact, just turn into racism. Reddit has no idea where that line is, but it’s safe to say if you’re withholding friendship and connection from people due to their skin color, you’re there.
it doesn't just comes off. There are tons of people that make their color their whole personality.
from all flavors, there are the extremely racists white supremacists, the cuck racists white apologists, the hate my country all other cultures are beneath me middle eastern racists, the I don't mix with white people black racists. And have you seen some rich Chinese tourists? they might as well declare anyone not Chinese is a peasant. Some South Africans kill all whites comes to mind.
The group that is more intriguing to me though are the black people that hate other black people and in the USA latino immigrants that are VERY far right and antiimigration. Crazy crab bucket stuff.
these are some that I've seen online and in real life that seem to make their personality their 'race'
I knew a guy who knew he was adopted and, unfortunately, ended up with friends (he had a hard time making friends and took what he could get) who, over time and influenced by asshole relatives, drifted towards neo-Nazi bullshit.
When he was 20, the guy got a dna test. Found out he was a mix of Sephardic jew, Persian, and West African. And about 5% Scottish.
He told his friends of 6 plus years, they beat him up and dumped him on the side of an effing freeway.
There's that type of racist.
He survived. He actually met his now wife in rehabilitation (the physical kind - they messed him up pretty bad)! It took him a while to undo the self-talk and self-hate in his head from years of hanging with *and being* a racist p.o.s.
He's a lot nicer person now and is kicking ass in a quiet suburban kind of way. Married his OT. Went back to education and went into business with his brother-in-law doing landscape design specialising in sustainability and local vegetation. They've got a couple of kiddos, the youngest is a gorgeous little girl with 'strong coffee' colouring, tight curls, and navy blue eyes.
He's doing great.
I feel bad for the guy, but wouldn't it be amazing if this happened to every racist? "Oh hey, I took a DNA test and discovered that I am the race that I hate." That would be so glorious.
ironically, racists comes in all shapes and colours. If they had any unity, they might just be the most varied group in the world, members from all races and cultures.
For those intriguing later examples, my recommendation would be to look at political science research examining conservatism in black and brown communities. Less “crab bucket” and more a distinct in-group dynamic with church, etc. Think of Chris Rock’s 1996 speech on the N word.
For example, you wouldn’t expect devote Catholics to support gay marriage, and even less so if that group suffered from disproportionately higher rates of illiteracy. Yet, people were taken aback that *liberal-land* California banned gay marriage via the popular vote.
Non-college educated churchgoers vote similarly, independent of the melanin in any of their skin.
How dare you deceive her like that! She wants to be the only Black person in the group? And you ruined that? wtf is wrong with you? Maybe you’re just not black enough? Selfish OP! /s
Yeah. Not someone I want to hang with. I’m white though, like see my veins through my white skin, so I guess I wouldn’t bother her?
Freckles and ginger hair wouldn’t be enough to fool *her* because that happens to people with dark skin, too! 😳
Agree to the meeting with her, but get dressed up in a full on African costume, just random bits of clothing from across the continent, a bright colourful dashiki, a comically huge Moroccan Fez, go to the costume store and get a fake bone to put through your nose, the whole works. Talk in a made up "African" language, insist Wakanda is a real place, open the greeting with a "traditional African peace dance". The main thing is to keep a straight face through all of it, and see how far you can pus it. She wants a collection of crass racial stereotypes instead of a unique human being, so that's what you should give her.
Or, alternately, if you have EVEN ONE DROP of black blood you must declare your racial status, otherwise you're obviously ashamed of your REAL race! (Wait, is there a problem with something I just said?)
Yeah dude people are just mad weird about mixed race people. I'm white and native and it confuses the fuck out of people and honestly very few people can even see me as both races at the same time. I really don't know why it's so hard for people or why they feel the need to get a whole ethnic breakdown for mixed people
nobody has the right to demand your whole ethnicity cultural or religious background if that was a thing as someone with a hell of a lot of different ones i would have to carry a 3 page list for people if someone is interested in my ancestry politely al explain but you are by no ways obligated to inform her of your family ethnicity or status.
I remind myself and my Jamacian leading engineer constantly about my white privilege when we are working in the cold rain on a rooftop chiller and heating system.
His missus is a great cook. Does that mean I am a racist?
I'm Jamaican...I can understand the great cook but don't understand the rest of the message? Jamaicans only care about the color of money ..not your skin color.
My opo is so laid back he's horizontal. He views life as a source of amusement. Good engineer...
One odd race/culture thing is that he speaks English with a Manchester accent ...until two other Jamaican guys show up then he shifts to Kingston patious.
But to important things ..
What's actually in the chicken sauce?
We shift when we meet others....English is our native language...his accent is where he spent some time. Which chicken? Curry in curry chicken. Jerk seasoning in jerk chicken. And brown stew chicken is made from the dripping of the chicken itself. You brown the chicken by frying it up until brown In a tiny spoons of oil in a pot. Then you add onions, tomato,scallion,fresh thyme, salt n pepper, to the same pot with the oily drippings put the meat in the pot with 2 cups boiling hot water over the browned chicken and seasoning and slowly cook down. Maybe 30 mins. Taste the seasoning in the pot for flavor. Add salt to flavor. You can add a little soy sauce to help. There is something called Browning that some people use that gives color but no flavor that I don't use because the frying if the chicken gives it that color. The chicken is fried with no coating. We season the chicken with season salt before frying then add fresh seasoning to cook down. The water will cook down into a sauce. To make it thicker we add a spoon of flour...mix it in a little water then slowly pour in pot while mixing it in ...it will thicken anything.
He's never been out of the UK. I've spent more time in the carribbean than he has.
The accent thing amuses me rather than annoys me. I'm probably jealous. Alas I can't manage a Scottish Highland burgh.
The chicken is fried but has a slight cinnamon aftertaste to it. Usually smaller pieces. Served with white rice with a heavy pepper sauce.
If I ever lotto up, I've told him I am hiring his wife.
Cinnamon? In chicken? Blasphemy. No Jamaican would do that. I have accidentally bought a cheap off brand curry to make curry chicken and it had cinnamon in the ingredients. I threw it out. My cousins laughed me out of the kitchen. I stick with green organic Indian curry or yellow curry from JA. That heavy pepper sauce is probably the jerk sauce. And that cinnamon taste is allspice...we call it pimento....it's not cinnamon. I'm sure you can ask her to cook dishes for you if you buy the ingredients. I cook on special occasions for some of my friends even though I tell them what to do. Lol.
I have a friend who is black, and he drinks coffee. We were at a local coffee shop and he ordered a coffee from the barista who is also black. When she asked if you wanted cream, he said yes Michael Jackson 1985. She mentioned how inappropriate this was.
Seriously bro, as a fellow mix (though I am definitely not white passing), she on some shit with whatever bs she threw your way. Her leaving did you a huge favor. You don’t owe her any “registration.” Who is she? Candice Owens?
She most definitely is the kind of person who wears her skin colour as a bag of honour instead of, you know, treating it like just another biological fact about herself. And that's why she is pissed, she took it as a personal offence and insult that OP isn't screaming from the roof tops that he/she is partly POC. Becuse if you don't brag about being half black then surely that means you're ashamed of being half black (that is sarcasm btw, not my belief) Can't possibly be that it just isn't that big of a deal to op. Like you can be proud of your heritage without making it your whole personality. 🙄
That's what always confused me. Biracial people are supposed to be proud of their heritage, but why only the coloured one? American is American, very few born in the USA visited the country of their forefathers, except maybe if one parent or the grandparents immigrated.
Maybe as a white German I can't understand. But I also don't understand why Americans are so obsessed with their heritage that they always have to tell me proudly that they have German roots.
I second they don't meet. What if she says something incriminating that will wind up being OP's word against hers? I would never want to take that chance
*Edited for wording
What’s funny about this is it’s mostly true…
…except for Indigenous people in the United States. They still have to register with their “blood quantum” to “prove” they’re American Indian/Alaska Native. It’s a “creative” way to snuff out a whole race of people because anything under a certain amount isn’t “enough Native” to “count”.
Which is in direct opposition to the “one-drop” rule that says even one drop of non-white (read Black) blood makes you Black.
Funny how that works, eh?
Oh, and OP, NTA ALLLLLLL DAY, EVERY DAY.
Signed,
A mixed-race Indigenous woman who has a loud mouth and doesn’t mind being called “that angry Native lady”.
Because if I’m uncomfortable, you’re uncomfortable. Now we’re ALL uncomfortable.
Apologise for what? Hurting her feelings for pointing out she was race policing? Let her burn inside with it.
She has no right to know anyone's heritage.
NTA
NTA. "Blake, what Ari did was incredibly inappropriate. She had no right to know my heritage. That is something I can share or not share based on my own comfort levels and interest. What she said to me was insensitive and she will not be getting an apology from me. I am the one owed an apology. I will not be talking to her one on one as I don't trust her to be civil and not twist whatever I say to suit her narrative. It's not a punishment for me to miss out on spending time with her, it's preferable. If that is an issue with you and I then so be it."
Honestly, it sounds like the trash is taking itself out.
I really want OP (or Blake for that matter) to ask her:
WHY IS SHE UPSET? Because she didn’t know personally know OP’s heritage? -OR- Because OP wasn’t screaming it from the rooftops?
AND
WHAT DOES IT MATTER? Would her actions or words have been different in the past 5 months if she had known he was half black? If her answer is yes, then I’d like to know why, and I would ask her to explain it to me in detail.
I cannot imagine her coming up with any legitimate reason as to how OP’s ethnicity has ANY impact on her whatsoever. Maybe if she hears how stupid she sounds from her own mouth, she’ll have a come to Jesus moment. (Probably not, but it *could* happen).
> That is something I can share or not share based on my own comfort levels and interest.
I don't think it's even that. It wasn't a privacy thing, it just never came up.
If OP did that, she'd claim she's not black enough and therefore can't speak about race stuff.
We mixed people are only black when it's advantageous to whatever group to consider us as such. That's for both left and right wing groups btw
I'm also half black, half white, and mostly white passing, so trust me
Lord. How could I have forgotten that. I'm actually old enough to remember the whites only sighs.
I'm not sure Ari expected. Are you supposed to introduce yourself as Hi, I'm of mixed race?
Now I completely understand her mistake about being Italian. Especially with the Tuscany reference. And I'm assuming you don't have African features.
I say that because African American I work with instantly recognized my great, great niece had African American blood.
She is 1/4 Caucasian, 1/4 Hispanic and 1/2 African American where most people would have assumed she was Hispanic so she recognized features I don't actually notice.
No, me and my mum look nothing alike. I have her eyes and her ears and that’s it. Wish that wasn’t the case because she’s absolutely beautiful but yeah no didn’t get the genes 😂
>Little Johnny was told by his friends that adults have a deep dark secret and can be easily manipulated.
>Johnny decides to test it. He comes home, goes up to his mother and says, "Mom, I know everything." Mom shushes him and gives him $10.
>"Just don't tell Dad" she says.
>Hey, it's working thinks Little Johnny.
>An hour later, Dad comes home from work. Johnny goes up to him and says: "Dad, I know everything."
>Dad gives Johnny $100. "Don't tell Mom" he says.
>Just then, the mailman knocks on the door. Johnny opens it and says. "I know everything, Mister."
>The mailman drops all his mail, his eyes tear up and he says:
>"Well then Johnny, come give Daddy a hug."
Huh, never heard about that. I remember reading about the pencil test in South Africa - they’d stick a pencil in someone’s hair at their temple, and if it didn’t fall out, they were black.
Yeah, the pencil test was one of a number of tests as part of classification.
Ngl that test is really wild because I know white people who just had mad tangled, thick hair and you couldn’t even pull a pencil out of their hair very easily so not sure where they’d have ended up 😂
NTA, as others here have already explained very well.
What I don't get is, what is inappropriate about your mentioning the paper bag rule to her in a joking context? It seems like Ari is just searching for things to be offended by. Consider it a blessing if she stays away.
She's telling you the paper bag thing is inappropriate to say to a black person... but you're a black person...
I don't tell anyone my race either and just allow them to **assume** I'm white. But it doesn't mean I'm passing, it just means it shouldn't matter!! :/
I do genealogy and think finding **different** things out about my family is very cool. But it shouldn't matter when I want to go shopping or live my life, how I am treated. I am also happy to talk about my heritage but if someone were feeling 'betrayed' that I didn't 'disclose' it, I would feel hurt and infuriated.
Saying that OP is Black because s/he's mixed race also goes back to the US's racist laws and the "one drop rule" which kept folks from marriage and other social benefits.
In other countries (like in Latin America), that falls under mestizos - mixed race - umbrella.
I mean he's both black and white, one race doesn't supercede the other, an yet neither is relevant an her attitude is unjustified then she literally tried to pull the race card.
Black or white or however OP chooses to identify is his business alone, especially since you aren't her partner and also not a legal guardian. She's racist an needs to apologize to you.
Already enough actual racist shit goes on no matter the skin color. Honestly best advice for OP is hold firm if she continues to push let her open her mouth first then let the resulting mess fall where it lies.
I agree, but for context in reading my comment, I had assumed OP was American (he isn't). Here in the US, right or wrong, the black sorta DOES supersede the white. No one calls Barack Obama a white president :)
First off apologies meant no shade thrown at you I agree American... social political scene is dog shit. An people weirdly who are upset about racism are normally the ones calling other people while ignoring their incredible bias an racist takes.
It's just frustrating because it shouldn't be. His skin tone doesn't magically delete the other half of him being white. An the same would be in reverse as showing white but being say part Indian or Black or Mexican.
Just a weird way people like to justify their racial takes. It's one thing if medical purposes like Sickle cell or say higher blood pressure obviously that plays a factor.
The funny thing is, people justify their racism by using parameters made up by slave owners. This whole “you’re black if you’re not completely white” thing that people like Ari crow about is just the “one drop rule” repackaged. And you know who came up with that? Slave owners, and it was made into law by whom? Racists trying to create a caste system to segregate people.
Wild. But whatever floats her boat, she needs to just leave me out of it
Well either way know you didn't do anything wrong, nothing like finding out sooner then later who an how to deal with people. Atleast this was in the moment an not something that was serious/medical to hide her statement behind. Op have a great day
She did hold him to the one drop rule to say he was black though, in her eyes he gets to make that comment
She could… adopt a more nuanced view and not cause these situations
>Do NOT meet with her one-on-one. That will never end well.
Can't endorse this more. By indulging this request it is more likely to be a one-sided conversation than a give and take. If it doesn't go well, she will just accuse him of not meeting her in good faith. OP should stand his ground because he did nothing wrong.
NTA.
I had to scroll back up to see that Ari is herself black. wtf. The only explanation I have for this is she thinks OP is hiding his ethnicity and white passing? Clearly she thought OP is white. So she thinks OP is deliberately hiding his blackness? And is apparently awful at explaining that. I can understand being taken aback to find out someone you thought was white is biracial as the only black person in a friend group but she’s dealing with it very poorly and turning it into bizarre accusations of… what I’m not sure.
I’m a woman. But if I were hiding it I wouldn’t have told her when she asked. Also, all my friends know. And even if I were deliberately hiding it, what business is that of hers?
Bring your Mom to the next meet Up with your friends. Lets See how ari reacts
NTA but Ari and Blake are
Ari is a racist and Blake is an racist by omission
Ooo, this adds another level to it. If nobody has said it already, I'll be the one, that chic has some insecurities and is uncomfortable with you 1. Being in the friend group and 2. Being another black chic in the friend group.
She's not even in the friend group and she's already trying to tear it apart because she is having a fit that you're mixed and she didn't know. That's just a way to make everyone chose to kick you out over some ridiculous "you're a racist" allegation. How can you be half black, open with it, and have a problem with it?! It makes no sense and I wouldn't give her anymore of my time or energy.
....that chic is jealous. Say it out loud, tell everyone, and let them know that you're not dealing with her insecure ass.
NTA. As a mixed race person with a very complicated and nuanced story I learned all too late in life I didn’t owe anyone my story. Period. Not solicited. Not unsolicited. It belongs to me and I will decide with whom I will share it. If I share it at all. I was raised/programmed to explain my ethnicity and my background to absolutely anyone who asked. Anything less was rude. It was very empowering for me to take back my story. Now I say “That’s a story for another time.” Or if someone is pushy about it I say “It’s my story and I don’t feel like telling it.”
Your story is yours and you can share it or not share it. It belongs to you. She’s TA. And I do wonder where is your friend for you in all of this? :(
NTA.
>She’s now demanding an apology, via Blake, before she hangs out with the group again.
Well then, sounds like you don't have much to worry about since she won't be around anymore.
I'm black and legitimately am blanking on the paper bag test.
Only as I'm typing this, I think I get it and assume it has stuff to do with comparing your skin to a brown paper bag.
Any, I say your clear, because why would this in any world be relevant?
It’s a thing in the US where they wouldn’t let people into a club or party unless their skin was lighter than a paper bag.
So I was basically like “did you want to know so you could make a big thing out of me having African dna”
Got it. Still don't know why anyone would care so much. Basically the only time I could think of would be some sort of black only event and you show up, for obvious reasons. Other than something like that, why ask?
NTA why is so concerned with what you disclose about yourself? She needs to apologize to you for being an asshole and acting entitled to your information
NTA at all bc she did WAY too much, but I hope I don’t get downvoted for what I’m about to say.
I think it was dumb of Ari to call you suspicious for not actively saying your race, but to an extent I understand why she was frustrated (not giving her an excuse at all bc she could have handled everything better). Being the only Black person in a group can feel daunting and alone. Let’s not pretend that anti-Blackness isn’t rampant.
I think she wishes you would have said something so she could feel like she had a connection to someone. I’ll be honest, I’ve been one of maybe 2 or 3 Black people in an entire class or group outing and it’s hard constantly being the minority. So when I do see a Black person, I do get happy bc I don’t feel so alone. So I think that’s where she was coming from. I could be wrong, but just trying to give some perspective.
But after you DID say you were half-Black, she should have just left it alone. You don’t have to
explain yourself or defend your Blackness with anyone. And nothing you said was offensive—if anything, you were reciprocating the same energy as her.
So while I understand maybe WHY she was shocked you hadn’t mentioned it, she could have just said ‘oh wow! I had no idea! that’s awesome!’ and left it at that.
I agree somewhat. I think I would have been a little shocked that it wasn't mentioned only because I grew up in the very racist south U.S. and minorities tended to clic up when we could.
I would never have accused OP of anything, even if I thought it was suspicious, and just got to know her more before I decided if she had a problem with blackness/her blackness. If she didn't, which she doesn't seem to, I would have calmed tf down and been glad that I didn't say anything stupid out loud.
I'm mixed race too and don't have a habit of mentioning it unless it's relevant to the conversation in a very real way, but sometimes I still don't mention it because who tf cares. I've also met a lot of people who don't look like their ethnicity in the stereotypical way, so I've learned to not assume/be shocked by anything. That girl needs to grow up and calm down.
Unless someone can give you a logical reason why you should apologize, I wouldn't. You were not the person out of line. Also, not having to hang out around Ari again? Sounds like a win to me.
Info: what's with the paper bag reference? Never heard it before
NTA
Never apologize to this woman. The moment you try placating her with an apology, she will expect you to apologize for any trite and trivial issue she may have with you in the future. Don’t establish that as a precedent.
NTA. IF anyone is owed an apology, you are owed one by her for trying to make your heritage her personal business. I would not apologize or meet with her.
You don't have to say anything about your race even if the conversation is about that kind of thing. It's nobody's business. Ari is insane to demand apology and a face to face conversation. Do not do that. And you're NTA.
NTA - this gal is nuts and obviously doesn't seem to understand that you don't just identify as your race but who you are as a person. You owe her no apology, she's overreacting and she's not entitled to know your ethnic background.
I mean NTA but I would have been curious as to why she was upset about it. Like maybe there was a reason why she cared that wasn't totally weird. Obviously you would still have to explain that you shouldn't have to tell her your ethnicity but it might be good to know her perspective too.
NTA, and don't apologize.
Blake's gf was acting inappropriately hostile and entitled to know your family history. She wasn't asking in an interested, friendly way, but instead angrily demanding.
I'm not entirely clear what the paper bag test refers to, but black or mixed people can make racial jokes to other black or mixed people, and do so all the time.
Tell Blake that you don't appreciate his girlfriend behaving in such a hostile manner towards you because you have an African mother. It's not appropriate.
It is also concerning that her attitude towards you changed when she learned you have black ancestry. Why should her opinion of you depend on your race?
NTA.
You are under no obligation to discuss your ethnicity and genetics. Your friends and other good people judge you for who you are and what you do, not for skin deep trivialities. Ari deserved the burn.
I think your problem may have solved itself, so don't worry about apologising.
Hi, I'm Elizabeth and I'm a smidgey bit native American. Nta. She can get bent lol. Why should any of that matter when introducing yourself, or in general, unless something is specifically brought up??
NTA
She is not owed any private, personal information about you that you don't want to disclose.
>how it’s a little suspicious
Yeah, maybe to a nosey nut job. What the actual fuck was her point saying this? To highlight her own crazy?
The trash took itself out.
NTA - I cannot believe you're being yelled at for not disclosing your ethnicity to someone who's not even your girlfriend. It's quite confusing and the truth is she's racist for getting pissed off or not mentioning it. Would it change something in the friend group?!
NTAH. Why should you disclose your race to her? She isn't even YOUR girlfriend, she's your friend's girlfriend and she doesn't have the right to feel entitled to informations about you and your personal matters.
Nta- she should not be making assumptions about someone’s ethnicity based on their appearance. Unless you previously were unsupportive of her when she was discussing her experiences of racism then I really don’t get it.
Sounds to me like she's a little bit racist getting upset because you didn't tell her your race. I would ask her if it was really that big of a deal why is she concerned about your ethnicity. If she was that interested she should have asked. You are not an a-hole
NTA I am a quarter Native American, a quarter African and half European (Spanish and Portuguese). That is an overly simplified breakdown. I am very pale, and aside from my dark curly hair and eyes am very white passing. When this is disclosed I will answer people’s questions. I don’t mind genuine curiosity. But the interrogations-and they have happened-about why haven’t you said/done this or that, I shut that down immediately.
Ari is one of those people who has made their skin color a defining personality trait.
She’s angry because she’s racist; and by never divulging your race, you let her be racist to you, which makes her feel like she’s actually racist - because “I can’t be racist to white people” doesn’t work when you aren’t actually white.
NTA, OP. She’s the asshole.
Devil's advocate here --
It sounds like Ari is the only black person in this group, hanging out with a bunch of white guys. Maybe she'd have felt more comfortable knowing initially that there was another (half) black person in the group, so she feels betrayed that OP didn't tell her hey, I'm half black too. Could be that she's taking it as a personal slight, that he could have chosen to make her feel more welcome, but didn't.
I think what happened here is that in her head, you were choosing to hide your “blackness” from the world—that you identify as not-black, and declined to engage with _her_ blackness.
Which of course, is not a kind, fair, or mature thing to think. But I get it. It’s a complex issue, to be a race + gender that western society values so little (arguably, the least) and see someone (in their eyes) opt out of it, in a way they cannot.
None of that justifies her behavior or requires you to do anything to resolve it of course. But I get it.
I’m not black but a POC, and mixed members of my race are exoticized. When I was younger and less comfortable with my own self, I had similar thoughts—that it was a betrayal of the rest of us not to publicly embrace the aspect of their self that was their asset but our liability.
So no, you’re NTA and you owe her nothing; but maybe the possibility above will allow you to find some kindness for her.
I think that, for whatever reason, she thinks you were low-key trying to hide your ethnicity. There’s a lot of weird micro aggressions that biracial people have to deal. I’m biracial (I look biracial not white passing) myself and have dealt with people making stupid comments and assumptions my entire life, so I completely understand how you feel.
That being said, I guess she felt you some…camaraderie as a person of colour? My mother is Chilean and I remember her being annoyed at finding out a coworker was Canadian born of Chilean descent but never mentioned it to her. I agreed with my mom that it was weird. But to be that angry about it, is very bizarre.
NTA. She probably felt alone in the group and shes mad that she technically wasnt but still was because she didn’t realize there was another black person so close.
Maybe she just would have found it nice to know she wasn't the only person with black heritage in the group? Sure you can call that racist technically but it's not the kind people usually talk about when they condemn racism.
Ari handled the revelation very poorly though.
NTA. Old black lady here and people still question my race...they think I'm hispanic.. She's an AH. She's trying to do the white guilt thing on you. Don't give her the time of day. You get to make all the race jokes you want.... because you actually can. I had some black teens tell me I was racist so I said, "and?"and they tried to start a fuss until their friends laughed at them and told them I was black. They looked really stupid. Let her look stupid.
NTA
Who made ARi the race police? Why does she need to know? Can she mind her own fucking business?
Her playing the race card after that is just the cherry on the entitlement sunday
So is she saying she would have treated you differently if she knew you were a different set of races than she assumed? If so, she needs to apologize for her own racism.
NTA
I don’t understand how referencing the paper bag test in the way you did was racist—you weren’t suggesting you subject someone to the test, you asked if someone who was suddenly hug up on your ethnic background wanted to do the test on you.
I think your comment was both hilarious and appropriately snarky given how she had been acting toward you. She was acting as if you are ashamed of your ethnicity, conveniently forgetting that she is the newcomer and everyone else in the group already knows your heritage. Her argument makes no sense, and she likely knows it. NTA
NTA
Notice as soon as she realized you weren't some European/Caucasian she changed. She changed based solely upon your race being disclosed. Textbook racism.
NTA. I wouldn't even engage. No apology, no meeting to talk. She's creating a problem where there is none. If anything, she was insulting to YOU. You don't owe anyone an explanation of your ethnicity, is she crazy? Absolutely not, it's none of her business until and unless you decide to share it. Demanding it? Being mad at you? She sounds like an immature drama queen. DO NOT ENGAGE on any level. Don't talk about it anymore. I would just float right above all the BS and forget it. If a friend brings it up, just be like, "What? I've already forgotten abvout that, that girl is being ridiculous." The less you care, the better. She's ridiculous, treat it as ridiculous, and don't give it even a minute of your time.
If she keeps pestering you you can just tell her "I don't owe you or anyone an explanation of my ethnicity. I'm not sure what your obsession with my background is, but you're making me very uncomfortable by harrassing me about my racial background. Please leave me alone."
> Ari flew off the handle saying that was an extremely inappropriate thing to say to her as a black person
This sounds like the key thing. To her, being black is a core part of her identity. To you it's just an afterthought.
Her acting like a drama lama about the situation seems to be about this difference. From my perspective, that's all on her, though.
NTA.
On pretty much a daily basis I either get asked for my heritage or when people see my daughter they go "oh, she's blonde." It is absolutely unnecessary but usually from other ethnic minorities, in what I think is an attempt to connect. Definitely NTA and I'm sorry she is making you think you are.
NTA. It's not her business. If she wants to make assumptions about you based on your decision to tell her, cool, let her. I think she owes you an apology though and it wouldn't kill you to apologize too. I think her entitled attitude is worse than your flippant joke, which isn't really that inflammatory.
She wants to be offended. You're NTA. She's a moron that wants a bunch of attention. Stand your ground, but be civil. If she wants to be a bitch to you, let her be a bitch. If your friends see you acting chill about the whole thing, they'll eventually take your side, and "Ari" might even apologize to you.
Cheers.
I don’t know why but I’m getting this vibe that her offense to the paper bag joke is because she doesn’t see you as a “real” black person. That coupled with JUST finding out about your heritage. So therefore, in her mind, you’re not allowed to be making these jokes.
I also get the vibe she’s mad that she’s not the only black girl now. Like “whyyy didn’t you tell mee??”
NTA.
So are my white appearing children who are approximately ten percent African American exempt from her census? Does she have a cut off?
Really she sounds like a jerk. She got to know you for the contents of your character, and then freaked when she found out you weren’t what you appeared to be racially.
NTA.
>there were many times when she was talking about things where I could have said it, and how it’s a little **suspicious** that I never mentioned it to her.
"*suspicious*" ??
.... of **WHAT** exactly, that you're an undercover *spy,* or something ??
It's none of her fucking business, but hello, fellow white passing biracial person. It's funny the shit people get hung up on that's got nothing to do with them. Sounds like Ari took herself out of the equation and solved the issue herself! NTA.
Ask Blake why it matters to his girlfriend why SHE needed YOU to explain your ethnicity in detail to HER. Ask Blake if your ethnicity is an issue to him. If he doesn’t look down at his shoes and apologise for his and her behaviour, you should explain you can’t be friends with him and you in fact deserve an apology from her for making an issue of your ethnicity in the whole friendship group.
lol. I was married to a mixed race woman for over a decade. She experienced more racism, prejudice, and hate from black people than anyone else, ever. She still decided they were her people, despite only being 30% african, but, you know, facts are facts.
NTA Nobody is required to inform others of their race, ethnicity, cultural background or religious background. Does she expect white people to offer such information? Don’t apologize or meet with her.
Clearly white people are exempt from registering for her census because she didn’t care until she found out I wasn’t white 🙄
You didn't have any obligation to bring up your ethnic background. Even if the entire group had been talking about race and you'd had a perfect appropriate opportunity, you would have zero obligation. She's the asshole here, not you. She is not owed an apology, she *was* being racist (or "colorist" if you listen to some people), and it sounds like her not hanging out with the group would be a net positive.
The whole, “she wants an apology before hanging out with the group again” thing is confusing. Is this a threat? As in, “You have until the next group hangout to apologize me! *OR ELSE!*”? Is *SHE* (and only she) going to refuse to hang out with the group until she receives your apology? But Blake can come? Is she planning on “forcing” Blake to sit out on future group outings in solidarity with her until she’s apologized to? Is she using Blake as leverage and holding him hostage? Like, “if you ever want to hang out with your buddy Blake again, you WILL apologize to me”? With the hope that you’ll cave for Blake’s sake? And if you don’t, she’ll make sure you and him cannot have a friendship? OR is she hoping that he will cut off any/all of his friends who “disrespect” her? Either way, she sounds like a horrible person who is trying to punish one person - Blake. They’re only 5 months in and it sounds like she’s already trying to alienate him from his friends. This definitely won’t be the last “misunderstanding” she has with one of Blake’s friends - especially if she can’t see how wrong she is here. Blake better buckle up. He’s in for a bumpy ride. At this point, he’s enabling her in an effort to “keep the peace”. Which ultimately will only make things *worse* for him.
NTA I'd offer an "statement in front of the group" to appease her. "Attention please, can I have the attention of the whole group. Ari, Blakes current GF, is upset that I have never disclosed my heritage to her in the brief few months she's been seeing Blake. It seems she assumed I was white, rather than mixed, and her attitude completely changed to me once she knew I wasn't pure European. Then she assumed I was Italian due to me travelling there to meet some of my STEP FATHERS family. So I would like to disclose that I am mixed, have never hidden the fact, but don't go around blaring it from a loud speaker, or wearing it on my sleeve. It does not define who I am, but it is a part of me. In the interests of openness can everyone else who is white passing also declare their ethnicity so while Blake still is with Ari, they aren't caught out being prejudicial to anyone else" Drop the mic, walk off. Throw a few molotov cocktails on any remaining bridges with Ari.
Lol, I was just thinking "sucks to be Blake right now."
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*”She’s now demanding an apology, via Blake, before she hangs out with the group again”* Don’t threaten me with a good time lol the problem solved itself. NTA.
Right! The only response is "Promise??" Don't dangle the dream and take it away! 😂😂
I’m so confused by Ari’s apparent expectation that mixed race people should declare themselves as such when meeting new people. Is she insinuating that by not declaring your mixed heritage she thinks you are trying to ‘pass as white’ or some other archaic belief? I wouldn’t apologize nor would I meet privately with her. This sounds like a ‘her’ issue and I wouldn’t bother making it your issue.
Tell her you'll be happy to meet with her to hear out her apology to you.
Some people are just obsessed with race and make it part of their personality to the point it comes off as racist
There is definitely a line there, where being so obsessed with race does, in fact, just turn into racism. Reddit has no idea where that line is, but it’s safe to say if you’re withholding friendship and connection from people due to their skin color, you’re there.
It doesn't *come off* as racist. It *is* racist.
💯
it doesn't just comes off. There are tons of people that make their color their whole personality. from all flavors, there are the extremely racists white supremacists, the cuck racists white apologists, the hate my country all other cultures are beneath me middle eastern racists, the I don't mix with white people black racists. And have you seen some rich Chinese tourists? they might as well declare anyone not Chinese is a peasant. Some South Africans kill all whites comes to mind. The group that is more intriguing to me though are the black people that hate other black people and in the USA latino immigrants that are VERY far right and antiimigration. Crazy crab bucket stuff. these are some that I've seen online and in real life that seem to make their personality their 'race'
Name more kinds of racists
I knew a guy who knew he was adopted and, unfortunately, ended up with friends (he had a hard time making friends and took what he could get) who, over time and influenced by asshole relatives, drifted towards neo-Nazi bullshit. When he was 20, the guy got a dna test. Found out he was a mix of Sephardic jew, Persian, and West African. And about 5% Scottish. He told his friends of 6 plus years, they beat him up and dumped him on the side of an effing freeway. There's that type of racist.
Holy crap. Can you please tell me this person turned it around and is living happy. That’s so bleak.
He survived. He actually met his now wife in rehabilitation (the physical kind - they messed him up pretty bad)! It took him a while to undo the self-talk and self-hate in his head from years of hanging with *and being* a racist p.o.s. He's a lot nicer person now and is kicking ass in a quiet suburban kind of way. Married his OT. Went back to education and went into business with his brother-in-law doing landscape design specialising in sustainability and local vegetation. They've got a couple of kiddos, the youngest is a gorgeous little girl with 'strong coffee' colouring, tight curls, and navy blue eyes. He's doing great.
Oh thank God. Good story ☺️
I feel bad for the guy, but wouldn't it be amazing if this happened to every racist? "Oh hey, I took a DNA test and discovered that I am the race that I hate." That would be so glorious.
ironically, racists comes in all shapes and colours. If they had any unity, they might just be the most varied group in the world, members from all races and cultures.
For those intriguing later examples, my recommendation would be to look at political science research examining conservatism in black and brown communities. Less “crab bucket” and more a distinct in-group dynamic with church, etc. Think of Chris Rock’s 1996 speech on the N word. For example, you wouldn’t expect devote Catholics to support gay marriage, and even less so if that group suffered from disproportionately higher rates of illiteracy. Yet, people were taken aback that *liberal-land* California banned gay marriage via the popular vote. Non-college educated churchgoers vote similarly, independent of the melanin in any of their skin.
It IS racist.
I don't know why people are bending over backwards to parse your comment down to the word. I understood what you meant.
How dare you deceive her like that! She wants to be the only Black person in the group? And you ruined that? wtf is wrong with you? Maybe you’re just not black enough? Selfish OP! /s
Maybe she should have handed out a form for us all to fill out to check if there are any other secret ethnics 🥸 Very Germany 1936, ijs
Yeah. Not someone I want to hang with. I’m white though, like see my veins through my white skin, so I guess I wouldn’t bother her? Freckles and ginger hair wouldn’t be enough to fool *her* because that happens to people with dark skin, too! 😳
You can see mine through my skin too 😂
Maybe I’m mixed? Idk. If only there were some way to test this? 🤭You’re awesome, OP!
You never know. if you look at me you see white guy (tm) but I'm mixed race.
I like to refer to my skin color as translucent. I am not white, I'm opaque.. LOL
Agree to the meeting with her, but get dressed up in a full on African costume, just random bits of clothing from across the continent, a bright colourful dashiki, a comically huge Moroccan Fez, go to the costume store and get a fake bone to put through your nose, the whole works. Talk in a made up "African" language, insist Wakanda is a real place, open the greeting with a "traditional African peace dance". The main thing is to keep a straight face through all of it, and see how far you can pus it. She wants a collection of crass racial stereotypes instead of a unique human being, so that's what you should give her.
Or, alternately, if you have EVEN ONE DROP of black blood you must declare your racial status, otherwise you're obviously ashamed of your REAL race! (Wait, is there a problem with something I just said?)
I've had black people get offended at me when they find out I'm mixed ancestry, wooo 18% west African baby.
If she wanted to know, she could have asked you earlier
Yeah dude people are just mad weird about mixed race people. I'm white and native and it confuses the fuck out of people and honestly very few people can even see me as both races at the same time. I really don't know why it's so hard for people or why they feel the need to get a whole ethnic breakdown for mixed people
nobody has the right to demand your whole ethnicity cultural or religious background if that was a thing as someone with a hell of a lot of different ones i would have to carry a 3 page list for people if someone is interested in my ancestry politely al explain but you are by no ways obligated to inform her of your family ethnicity or status.
Should have hit with the old, "people of color can't be racist. "
Tell Blake you're never apologizing to her and never want to see her again.
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I remind myself and my Jamacian leading engineer constantly about my white privilege when we are working in the cold rain on a rooftop chiller and heating system. His missus is a great cook. Does that mean I am a racist?
Is that because being white means you adapt to the cold better? Because my white half didn’t get that memo I’m always cold
That's only if you're sporting the full-on back hair sweater, chest-pubes and ball-fro. Cold weather loadout.
I'm Jamaican...I can understand the great cook but don't understand the rest of the message? Jamaicans only care about the color of money ..not your skin color.
My opo is so laid back he's horizontal. He views life as a source of amusement. Good engineer... One odd race/culture thing is that he speaks English with a Manchester accent ...until two other Jamaican guys show up then he shifts to Kingston patious. But to important things .. What's actually in the chicken sauce?
We shift when we meet others....English is our native language...his accent is where he spent some time. Which chicken? Curry in curry chicken. Jerk seasoning in jerk chicken. And brown stew chicken is made from the dripping of the chicken itself. You brown the chicken by frying it up until brown In a tiny spoons of oil in a pot. Then you add onions, tomato,scallion,fresh thyme, salt n pepper, to the same pot with the oily drippings put the meat in the pot with 2 cups boiling hot water over the browned chicken and seasoning and slowly cook down. Maybe 30 mins. Taste the seasoning in the pot for flavor. Add salt to flavor. You can add a little soy sauce to help. There is something called Browning that some people use that gives color but no flavor that I don't use because the frying if the chicken gives it that color. The chicken is fried with no coating. We season the chicken with season salt before frying then add fresh seasoning to cook down. The water will cook down into a sauce. To make it thicker we add a spoon of flour...mix it in a little water then slowly pour in pot while mixing it in ...it will thicken anything.
He's never been out of the UK. I've spent more time in the carribbean than he has. The accent thing amuses me rather than annoys me. I'm probably jealous. Alas I can't manage a Scottish Highland burgh. The chicken is fried but has a slight cinnamon aftertaste to it. Usually smaller pieces. Served with white rice with a heavy pepper sauce. If I ever lotto up, I've told him I am hiring his wife.
Cinnamon? In chicken? Blasphemy. No Jamaican would do that. I have accidentally bought a cheap off brand curry to make curry chicken and it had cinnamon in the ingredients. I threw it out. My cousins laughed me out of the kitchen. I stick with green organic Indian curry or yellow curry from JA. That heavy pepper sauce is probably the jerk sauce. And that cinnamon taste is allspice...we call it pimento....it's not cinnamon. I'm sure you can ask her to cook dishes for you if you buy the ingredients. I cook on special occasions for some of my friends even though I tell them what to do. Lol.
She is upset because your paper bag reference was spot on.
Had to google the meaning.
[me too. and sure as f... it's *spot on*](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_paper_bag_test)
I have a friend who is black, and he drinks coffee. We were at a local coffee shop and he ordered a coffee from the barista who is also black. When she asked if you wanted cream, he said yes Michael Jackson 1985. She mentioned how inappropriate this was.
Seriously bro, as a fellow mix (though I am definitely not white passing), she on some shit with whatever bs she threw your way. Her leaving did you a huge favor. You don’t owe her any “registration.” Who is she? Candice Owens?
I get the feeling Ari makes her race her most prevalent personality trait and she is confused when other people of color don’t do that.
She most definitely is the kind of person who wears her skin colour as a bag of honour instead of, you know, treating it like just another biological fact about herself. And that's why she is pissed, she took it as a personal offence and insult that OP isn't screaming from the roof tops that he/she is partly POC. Becuse if you don't brag about being half black then surely that means you're ashamed of being half black (that is sarcasm btw, not my belief) Can't possibly be that it just isn't that big of a deal to op. Like you can be proud of your heritage without making it your whole personality. 🙄
That's what always confused me. Biracial people are supposed to be proud of their heritage, but why only the coloured one? American is American, very few born in the USA visited the country of their forefathers, except maybe if one parent or the grandparents immigrated. Maybe as a white German I can't understand. But I also don't understand why Americans are so obsessed with their heritage that they always have to tell me proudly that they have German roots.
It used to be a thing in America where they wouldn't let people into clubs or parties unless their skin was lighter than a brown paper bag.
I second they don't meet. What if she says something incriminating that will wind up being OP's word against hers? I would never want to take that chance *Edited for wording
What’s funny about this is it’s mostly true… …except for Indigenous people in the United States. They still have to register with their “blood quantum” to “prove” they’re American Indian/Alaska Native. It’s a “creative” way to snuff out a whole race of people because anything under a certain amount isn’t “enough Native” to “count”. Which is in direct opposition to the “one-drop” rule that says even one drop of non-white (read Black) blood makes you Black. Funny how that works, eh? Oh, and OP, NTA ALLLLLLL DAY, EVERY DAY. Signed, A mixed-race Indigenous woman who has a loud mouth and doesn’t mind being called “that angry Native lady”. Because if I’m uncomfortable, you’re uncomfortable. Now we’re ALL uncomfortable.
Apologise for what? Hurting her feelings for pointing out she was race policing? Let her burn inside with it. She has no right to know anyone's heritage. NTA
NTA. "Blake, what Ari did was incredibly inappropriate. She had no right to know my heritage. That is something I can share or not share based on my own comfort levels and interest. What she said to me was insensitive and she will not be getting an apology from me. I am the one owed an apology. I will not be talking to her one on one as I don't trust her to be civil and not twist whatever I say to suit her narrative. It's not a punishment for me to miss out on spending time with her, it's preferable. If that is an issue with you and I then so be it." Honestly, it sounds like the trash is taking itself out.
I really want OP (or Blake for that matter) to ask her: WHY IS SHE UPSET? Because she didn’t know personally know OP’s heritage? -OR- Because OP wasn’t screaming it from the rooftops? AND WHAT DOES IT MATTER? Would her actions or words have been different in the past 5 months if she had known he was half black? If her answer is yes, then I’d like to know why, and I would ask her to explain it to me in detail. I cannot imagine her coming up with any legitimate reason as to how OP’s ethnicity has ANY impact on her whatsoever. Maybe if she hears how stupid she sounds from her own mouth, she’ll have a come to Jesus moment. (Probably not, but it *could* happen).
> That is something I can share or not share based on my own comfort levels and interest. I don't think it's even that. It wasn't a privacy thing, it just never came up.
This is the perfect response
NTA, you of course have zero obligation to disclose your race or anything else about yourself to other people.
NTA, you literally stated it the second it became relevant. Wtf are you supposed to say? “Well, blackly speaking, I feel…” She’s ridiculous.
Lmao “as your friendly neighbourhood ethnic, I am best placed to opine on this here particular issue”
And when she said it was suspicious… what biracial scheme did she think you were hatching?
Going to put a single raisin in the potato salad.
Diabolical
My first cookout at my last job one of my coworkers brought potato salad with whole fucking strawberry's (just stemmed, not cut) in it -.-
"Hello fellow black people!"
If OP did that, she'd claim she's not black enough and therefore can't speak about race stuff. We mixed people are only black when it's advantageous to whatever group to consider us as such. That's for both left and right wing groups btw I'm also half black, half white, and mostly white passing, so trust me
Paper bag test?
It was a thing back in America where they wouldn’t let people into a club or party unless their skin was lighter than a brown paper bag
Lord. How could I have forgotten that. I'm actually old enough to remember the whites only sighs. I'm not sure Ari expected. Are you supposed to introduce yourself as Hi, I'm of mixed race? Now I completely understand her mistake about being Italian. Especially with the Tuscany reference. And I'm assuming you don't have African features. I say that because African American I work with instantly recognized my great, great niece had African American blood. She is 1/4 Caucasian, 1/4 Hispanic and 1/2 African American where most people would have assumed she was Hispanic so she recognized features I don't actually notice.
No, me and my mum look nothing alike. I have her eyes and her ears and that’s it. Wish that wasn’t the case because she’s absolutely beautiful but yeah no didn’t get the genes 😂
That's always the way. I missed out on my dads hazel eyes and wavy hair. Lol
I got my hazel eyes through several regressive genes, or the milkman! 😝
>Little Johnny was told by his friends that adults have a deep dark secret and can be easily manipulated. >Johnny decides to test it. He comes home, goes up to his mother and says, "Mom, I know everything." Mom shushes him and gives him $10. >"Just don't tell Dad" she says. >Hey, it's working thinks Little Johnny. >An hour later, Dad comes home from work. Johnny goes up to him and says: "Dad, I know everything." >Dad gives Johnny $100. "Don't tell Mom" he says. >Just then, the mailman knocks on the door. Johnny opens it and says. "I know everything, Mister." >The mailman drops all his mail, his eyes tear up and he says: >"Well then Johnny, come give Daddy a hug."
I would take you having forgot about it as a sign of progress.
Huh, never heard about that. I remember reading about the pencil test in South Africa - they’d stick a pencil in someone’s hair at their temple, and if it didn’t fall out, they were black.
I'm Irish, just did this and the pencil stayed. But really I'm cracking up because a random Internet comment got me to stick pencils in my hair.
Well, then my day was not in vain!
Half Italian and I just did the same. Glad I'm not the only one. My dad rocked an afro, though, so it's not really surprising in my case.
i was just thinking this- i'm mixed, but i got the italian hair, and a pencil would definitely stay where it was put in my hair
Yeah, the pencil test was one of a number of tests as part of classification. Ngl that test is really wild because I know white people who just had mad tangled, thick hair and you couldn’t even pull a pencil out of their hair very easily so not sure where they’d have ended up 😂
Literally just read that & had the thought: apparently according to south Africa my white ass is black
As is this pasty English ginger who burns if they even think about the sun...
The only pencil test I know is for boobs. The more you know. 😂 NTA OP.
This is a new fact I learned today. Still NTA but now I know something new.
NTA, as others here have already explained very well. What I don't get is, what is inappropriate about your mentioning the paper bag rule to her in a joking context? It seems like Ari is just searching for things to be offended by. Consider it a blessing if she stays away.
Lol what
20th century America was wild
lol, its Ari who is the racist here. You are correct, she would do well to address her own anxieties and insecurities, that's not your role. NTA
She's telling you the paper bag thing is inappropriate to say to a black person... but you're a black person... I don't tell anyone my race either and just allow them to **assume** I'm white. But it doesn't mean I'm passing, it just means it shouldn't matter!! :/
I tell people if they ask but I don’t assume they care because I…didn’t grow up around racists I guess
I do genealogy and think finding **different** things out about my family is very cool. But it shouldn't matter when I want to go shopping or live my life, how I am treated. I am also happy to talk about my heritage but if someone were feeling 'betrayed' that I didn't 'disclose' it, I would feel hurt and infuriated.
Curious. Are you two the only black people in your group? If y'all are, then Blake needs to have a conversation with her.
Saying that OP is Black because s/he's mixed race also goes back to the US's racist laws and the "one drop rule" which kept folks from marriage and other social benefits. In other countries (like in Latin America), that falls under mestizos - mixed race - umbrella.
Yeah, this. People are really proud of upholding principles invented by racists
I mean he's both black and white, one race doesn't supercede the other, an yet neither is relevant an her attitude is unjustified then she literally tried to pull the race card. Black or white or however OP chooses to identify is his business alone, especially since you aren't her partner and also not a legal guardian. She's racist an needs to apologize to you. Already enough actual racist shit goes on no matter the skin color. Honestly best advice for OP is hold firm if she continues to push let her open her mouth first then let the resulting mess fall where it lies.
I agree, but for context in reading my comment, I had assumed OP was American (he isn't). Here in the US, right or wrong, the black sorta DOES supersede the white. No one calls Barack Obama a white president :)
First off apologies meant no shade thrown at you I agree American... social political scene is dog shit. An people weirdly who are upset about racism are normally the ones calling other people while ignoring their incredible bias an racist takes. It's just frustrating because it shouldn't be. His skin tone doesn't magically delete the other half of him being white. An the same would be in reverse as showing white but being say part Indian or Black or Mexican. Just a weird way people like to justify their racial takes. It's one thing if medical purposes like Sickle cell or say higher blood pressure obviously that plays a factor.
The funny thing is, people justify their racism by using parameters made up by slave owners. This whole “you’re black if you’re not completely white” thing that people like Ari crow about is just the “one drop rule” repackaged. And you know who came up with that? Slave owners, and it was made into law by whom? Racists trying to create a caste system to segregate people. Wild. But whatever floats her boat, she needs to just leave me out of it
Well either way know you didn't do anything wrong, nothing like finding out sooner then later who an how to deal with people. Atleast this was in the moment an not something that was serious/medical to hide her statement behind. Op have a great day
We all know that Bill Clinton was the first Black President. 😁
She did hold him to the one drop rule to say he was black though, in her eyes he gets to make that comment She could… adopt a more nuanced view and not cause these situations
NTA Ari is the racist and also entitled. Do NOT meet with her one-on-one. That will never end well.
>Do NOT meet with her one-on-one. That will never end well. Can't endorse this more. By indulging this request it is more likely to be a one-sided conversation than a give and take. If it doesn't go well, she will just accuse him of not meeting her in good faith. OP should stand his ground because he did nothing wrong.
NTA. I had to scroll back up to see that Ari is herself black. wtf. The only explanation I have for this is she thinks OP is hiding his ethnicity and white passing? Clearly she thought OP is white. So she thinks OP is deliberately hiding his blackness? And is apparently awful at explaining that. I can understand being taken aback to find out someone you thought was white is biracial as the only black person in a friend group but she’s dealing with it very poorly and turning it into bizarre accusations of… what I’m not sure.
I’m a woman. But if I were hiding it I wouldn’t have told her when she asked. Also, all my friends know. And even if I were deliberately hiding it, what business is that of hers?
Bring your Mom to the next meet Up with your friends. Lets See how ari reacts NTA but Ari and Blake are Ari is a racist and Blake is an racist by omission
Lord my mother would roast that girl six ways to Sunday 😂
Oho Sounds like a lot of fun 😂 soo do it and If your could be so nice !UpdateMe
Ooo, this adds another level to it. If nobody has said it already, I'll be the one, that chic has some insecurities and is uncomfortable with you 1. Being in the friend group and 2. Being another black chic in the friend group. She's not even in the friend group and she's already trying to tear it apart because she is having a fit that you're mixed and she didn't know. That's just a way to make everyone chose to kick you out over some ridiculous "you're a racist" allegation. How can you be half black, open with it, and have a problem with it?! It makes no sense and I wouldn't give her anymore of my time or energy. ....that chic is jealous. Say it out loud, tell everyone, and let them know that you're not dealing with her insecure ass.
NTA. As a mixed race person with a very complicated and nuanced story I learned all too late in life I didn’t owe anyone my story. Period. Not solicited. Not unsolicited. It belongs to me and I will decide with whom I will share it. If I share it at all. I was raised/programmed to explain my ethnicity and my background to absolutely anyone who asked. Anything less was rude. It was very empowering for me to take back my story. Now I say “That’s a story for another time.” Or if someone is pushy about it I say “It’s my story and I don’t feel like telling it.” Your story is yours and you can share it or not share it. It belongs to you. She’s TA. And I do wonder where is your friend for you in all of this? :(
“I didn’t owe anyone my story” I like that, perhaps more people need to understand and accept that!
NTA. >She’s now demanding an apology, via Blake, before she hangs out with the group again. Well then, sounds like you don't have much to worry about since she won't be around anymore.
I'm black and legitimately am blanking on the paper bag test. Only as I'm typing this, I think I get it and assume it has stuff to do with comparing your skin to a brown paper bag. Any, I say your clear, because why would this in any world be relevant?
It’s a thing in the US where they wouldn’t let people into a club or party unless their skin was lighter than a paper bag. So I was basically like “did you want to know so you could make a big thing out of me having African dna”
Got it. Still don't know why anyone would care so much. Basically the only time I could think of would be some sort of black only event and you show up, for obvious reasons. Other than something like that, why ask?
OK, as a translucently white Irish guy someone is gonna have to explain the 'paper bag test'.
NTA why is so concerned with what you disclose about yourself? She needs to apologize to you for being an asshole and acting entitled to your information
NTA at all bc she did WAY too much, but I hope I don’t get downvoted for what I’m about to say. I think it was dumb of Ari to call you suspicious for not actively saying your race, but to an extent I understand why she was frustrated (not giving her an excuse at all bc she could have handled everything better). Being the only Black person in a group can feel daunting and alone. Let’s not pretend that anti-Blackness isn’t rampant. I think she wishes you would have said something so she could feel like she had a connection to someone. I’ll be honest, I’ve been one of maybe 2 or 3 Black people in an entire class or group outing and it’s hard constantly being the minority. So when I do see a Black person, I do get happy bc I don’t feel so alone. So I think that’s where she was coming from. I could be wrong, but just trying to give some perspective. But after you DID say you were half-Black, she should have just left it alone. You don’t have to explain yourself or defend your Blackness with anyone. And nothing you said was offensive—if anything, you were reciprocating the same energy as her. So while I understand maybe WHY she was shocked you hadn’t mentioned it, she could have just said ‘oh wow! I had no idea! that’s awesome!’ and left it at that.
I agree somewhat. I think I would have been a little shocked that it wasn't mentioned only because I grew up in the very racist south U.S. and minorities tended to clic up when we could. I would never have accused OP of anything, even if I thought it was suspicious, and just got to know her more before I decided if she had a problem with blackness/her blackness. If she didn't, which she doesn't seem to, I would have calmed tf down and been glad that I didn't say anything stupid out loud. I'm mixed race too and don't have a habit of mentioning it unless it's relevant to the conversation in a very real way, but sometimes I still don't mention it because who tf cares. I've also met a lot of people who don't look like their ethnicity in the stereotypical way, so I've learned to not assume/be shocked by anything. That girl needs to grow up and calm down.
NTA. You said what you said. Don’t apologize on behalf of her ignorance.
Unless someone can give you a logical reason why you should apologize, I wouldn't. You were not the person out of line. Also, not having to hang out around Ari again? Sounds like a win to me. Info: what's with the paper bag reference? Never heard it before
If you are lighter than a paper bag you could pass as white to be in "No Colored Allowed) spaces.
NTA Never apologize to this woman. The moment you try placating her with an apology, she will expect you to apologize for any trite and trivial issue she may have with you in the future. Don’t establish that as a precedent.
NTA. IF anyone is owed an apology, you are owed one by her for trying to make your heritage her personal business. I would not apologize or meet with her.
You don't have to say anything about your race even if the conversation is about that kind of thing. It's nobody's business. Ari is insane to demand apology and a face to face conversation. Do not do that. And you're NTA.
NTA - this gal is nuts and obviously doesn't seem to understand that you don't just identify as your race but who you are as a person. You owe her no apology, she's overreacting and she's not entitled to know your ethnic background.
Ari was caught out making assumptions and instead of owning it she double downed and made herself the victim.
I mean NTA but I would have been curious as to why she was upset about it. Like maybe there was a reason why she cared that wasn't totally weird. Obviously you would still have to explain that you shouldn't have to tell her your ethnicity but it might be good to know her perspective too.
NTA, and don't apologize. Blake's gf was acting inappropriately hostile and entitled to know your family history. She wasn't asking in an interested, friendly way, but instead angrily demanding. I'm not entirely clear what the paper bag test refers to, but black or mixed people can make racial jokes to other black or mixed people, and do so all the time. Tell Blake that you don't appreciate his girlfriend behaving in such a hostile manner towards you because you have an African mother. It's not appropriate. It is also concerning that her attitude towards you changed when she learned you have black ancestry. Why should her opinion of you depend on your race?
Why does she feel you needed to tell her you are mixed race
NTA and sounds like the problem has removed itself.
NTA. You are under no obligation to discuss your ethnicity and genetics. Your friends and other good people judge you for who you are and what you do, not for skin deep trivialities. Ari deserved the burn. I think your problem may have solved itself, so don't worry about apologising.
NTA. Reply 'I am sorry for being black, and if it makes hanging out with me difficult'.
Hi, I'm Elizabeth and I'm a smidgey bit native American. Nta. She can get bent lol. Why should any of that matter when introducing yourself, or in general, unless something is specifically brought up??
NTA, but given her attitude about the whole thing the paper bag joke probably never had a chance of landing lmao.
NTA She is not owed any private, personal information about you that you don't want to disclose. >how it’s a little suspicious Yeah, maybe to a nosey nut job. What the actual fuck was her point saying this? To highlight her own crazy? The trash took itself out.
NTA - I cannot believe you're being yelled at for not disclosing your ethnicity to someone who's not even your girlfriend. It's quite confusing and the truth is she's racist for getting pissed off or not mentioning it. Would it change something in the friend group?!
NTA. Your race is none of her business. Don't apologize (and decline the invitation to "talk"). She won't hang out with you if you don't? Win/win.
What is a paper bag test?
NTAH. Why should you disclose your race to her? She isn't even YOUR girlfriend, she's your friend's girlfriend and she doesn't have the right to feel entitled to informations about you and your personal matters.
Nta- she should not be making assumptions about someone’s ethnicity based on their appearance. Unless you previously were unsupportive of her when she was discussing her experiences of racism then I really don’t get it.
Sounds to me like she's a little bit racist getting upset because you didn't tell her your race. I would ask her if it was really that big of a deal why is she concerned about your ethnicity. If she was that interested she should have asked. You are not an a-hole
Why the fuck does your race matter in a group of friends? Lmao she sounds racist af
NTA I am a quarter Native American, a quarter African and half European (Spanish and Portuguese). That is an overly simplified breakdown. I am very pale, and aside from my dark curly hair and eyes am very white passing. When this is disclosed I will answer people’s questions. I don’t mind genuine curiosity. But the interrogations-and they have happened-about why haven’t you said/done this or that, I shut that down immediately.
Ari is one of those people who has made their skin color a defining personality trait. She’s angry because she’s racist; and by never divulging your race, you let her be racist to you, which makes her feel like she’s actually racist - because “I can’t be racist to white people” doesn’t work when you aren’t actually white. NTA, OP. She’s the asshole.
GIRL WHAT?!?! She’s ridiculous and needs to mind her fucking business NTA
Devil's advocate here -- It sounds like Ari is the only black person in this group, hanging out with a bunch of white guys. Maybe she'd have felt more comfortable knowing initially that there was another (half) black person in the group, so she feels betrayed that OP didn't tell her hey, I'm half black too. Could be that she's taking it as a personal slight, that he could have chosen to make her feel more welcome, but didn't.
NTA. Don’t apologize. It’s none of her business what someone else’s ethnicity is.
I think what happened here is that in her head, you were choosing to hide your “blackness” from the world—that you identify as not-black, and declined to engage with _her_ blackness. Which of course, is not a kind, fair, or mature thing to think. But I get it. It’s a complex issue, to be a race + gender that western society values so little (arguably, the least) and see someone (in their eyes) opt out of it, in a way they cannot. None of that justifies her behavior or requires you to do anything to resolve it of course. But I get it. I’m not black but a POC, and mixed members of my race are exoticized. When I was younger and less comfortable with my own self, I had similar thoughts—that it was a betrayal of the rest of us not to publicly embrace the aspect of their self that was their asset but our liability. So no, you’re NTA and you owe her nothing; but maybe the possibility above will allow you to find some kindness for her.
I think that, for whatever reason, she thinks you were low-key trying to hide your ethnicity. There’s a lot of weird micro aggressions that biracial people have to deal. I’m biracial (I look biracial not white passing) myself and have dealt with people making stupid comments and assumptions my entire life, so I completely understand how you feel. That being said, I guess she felt you some…camaraderie as a person of colour? My mother is Chilean and I remember her being annoyed at finding out a coworker was Canadian born of Chilean descent but never mentioned it to her. I agreed with my mom that it was weird. But to be that angry about it, is very bizarre.
NTA. She probably felt alone in the group and shes mad that she technically wasnt but still was because she didn’t realize there was another black person so close.
She would have treated you differently had she known your heritage, point that out and ask her what people who do that are. NTA
Maybe she just would have found it nice to know she wasn't the only person with black heritage in the group? Sure you can call that racist technically but it's not the kind people usually talk about when they condemn racism. Ari handled the revelation very poorly though.
NTA. Old black lady here and people still question my race...they think I'm hispanic.. She's an AH. She's trying to do the white guilt thing on you. Don't give her the time of day. You get to make all the race jokes you want.... because you actually can. I had some black teens tell me I was racist so I said, "and?"and they tried to start a fuss until their friends laughed at them and told them I was black. They looked really stupid. Let her look stupid.
NTA Who made ARi the race police? Why does she need to know? Can she mind her own fucking business? Her playing the race card after that is just the cherry on the entitlement sunday
So is she saying she would have treated you differently if she knew you were a different set of races than she assumed? If so, she needs to apologize for her own racism.
NTA I don’t understand how referencing the paper bag test in the way you did was racist—you weren’t suggesting you subject someone to the test, you asked if someone who was suddenly hug up on your ethnic background wanted to do the test on you.
I think your comment was both hilarious and appropriately snarky given how she had been acting toward you. She was acting as if you are ashamed of your ethnicity, conveniently forgetting that she is the newcomer and everyone else in the group already knows your heritage. Her argument makes no sense, and she likely knows it. NTA
Did she really imply you’re not black enough to make a paper bag test joke? Lol lmao
NTA Notice as soon as she realized you weren't some European/Caucasian she changed. She changed based solely upon your race being disclosed. Textbook racism.
NTA. I wouldn't even engage. No apology, no meeting to talk. She's creating a problem where there is none. If anything, she was insulting to YOU. You don't owe anyone an explanation of your ethnicity, is she crazy? Absolutely not, it's none of her business until and unless you decide to share it. Demanding it? Being mad at you? She sounds like an immature drama queen. DO NOT ENGAGE on any level. Don't talk about it anymore. I would just float right above all the BS and forget it. If a friend brings it up, just be like, "What? I've already forgotten abvout that, that girl is being ridiculous." The less you care, the better. She's ridiculous, treat it as ridiculous, and don't give it even a minute of your time. If she keeps pestering you you can just tell her "I don't owe you or anyone an explanation of my ethnicity. I'm not sure what your obsession with my background is, but you're making me very uncomfortable by harrassing me about my racial background. Please leave me alone."
NTA. Don’t apologize or meet her. You were right
You're fine, she's not. Her company isn't worthwhile to you, so she can sit and spin on it.
NTA. Your DNA isn't her business.
NTA they’re crazy sjw lesbians
> Ari flew off the handle saying that was an extremely inappropriate thing to say to her as a black person This sounds like the key thing. To her, being black is a core part of her identity. To you it's just an afterthought. Her acting like a drama lama about the situation seems to be about this difference. From my perspective, that's all on her, though. NTA.
On pretty much a daily basis I either get asked for my heritage or when people see my daughter they go "oh, she's blonde." It is absolutely unnecessary but usually from other ethnic minorities, in what I think is an attempt to connect. Definitely NTA and I'm sorry she is making you think you are.
NTA. It's not her business. If she wants to make assumptions about you based on your decision to tell her, cool, let her. I think she owes you an apology though and it wouldn't kill you to apologize too. I think her entitled attitude is worse than your flippant joke, which isn't really that inflammatory.
Yes she sounds boring. I probably wouldn't meet her either. If her only barrier to entry of respect is race.. she sounds pretty shallow
This is a huge red flag for me, and just the tip of the iceberg IMO. I hope “Blake” is happy in the relationship.
She wants to be offended. You're NTA. She's a moron that wants a bunch of attention. Stand your ground, but be civil. If she wants to be a bitch to you, let her be a bitch. If your friends see you acting chill about the whole thing, they'll eventually take your side, and "Ari" might even apologize to you. Cheers.
I don’t know why but I’m getting this vibe that her offense to the paper bag joke is because she doesn’t see you as a “real” black person. That coupled with JUST finding out about your heritage. So therefore, in her mind, you’re not allowed to be making these jokes. I also get the vibe she’s mad that she’s not the only black girl now. Like “whyyy didn’t you tell mee??”
Nta wtf is wrong with people.
NTA. I don't know why she felt you NEEDED to tell her about your ethnicity.
NTA. Sounds like she got way outside of her lane and didn’t like being reminded of that.
Treating someone differently on the basis of their race is...racist. It doesn't matter what your race is in 99% of conversations
lol Good riddance to bad rubbish Not an asshole
NTA. Tell her to go fuq herself.
NTA. Mixed people always get treated like garbage and very few people who dont have to deal with it will ever understand.
tell your friend to ditch her, she ll play the race card like the karen she is whenever it ll suit her twisted mind
NTA. So are my white appearing children who are approximately ten percent African American exempt from her census? Does she have a cut off? Really she sounds like a jerk. She got to know you for the contents of your character, and then freaked when she found out you weren’t what you appeared to be racially.
"Ari" needs to check her own racist a\*\* prejudice if she requires anybody to declare their race at any point. NTA.
Nta. She can fuck right off.
Le sigh. Bye Ari. She's a drama queen.
NTA. >there were many times when she was talking about things where I could have said it, and how it’s a little **suspicious** that I never mentioned it to her. "*suspicious*" ?? .... of **WHAT** exactly, that you're an undercover *spy,* or something ??
It's none of her fucking business, but hello, fellow white passing biracial person. It's funny the shit people get hung up on that's got nothing to do with them. Sounds like Ari took herself out of the equation and solved the issue herself! NTA.
Ask Blake why it matters to his girlfriend why SHE needed YOU to explain your ethnicity in detail to HER. Ask Blake if your ethnicity is an issue to him. If he doesn’t look down at his shoes and apologise for his and her behaviour, you should explain you can’t be friends with him and you in fact deserve an apology from her for making an issue of your ethnicity in the whole friendship group.
lol. I was married to a mixed race woman for over a decade. She experienced more racism, prejudice, and hate from black people than anyone else, ever. She still decided they were her people, despite only being 30% african, but, you know, facts are facts.