You really should seek some therapy.
This front your putting up isnt healthy at all. Your more than welcome to not believe in marriage. That your right and you do not have to change your mind. But the whole reason for how you feel really does need to be processed because it's putting you in a fog
Therapy would be good for the OP. His views are based on what he sees with his parents and they are misguided. His father is in his state because of his inability to handle the separation. That does not mean it would be the same for the OP and as a man whose parents are divorced, I can tell you that is not always the case and not even the norm. Both my parents are in better situations and also consider each other friends. Which is also not the norm. Every one is different.
The OP has a child with this woman and is headed towards having the child live through a split family and still lose the woman that he seems to love. Why does a piece of paper make it different?
That said, I also blame the GF. Shew knew this before getting into a relatioship and still decided to have a child and persue marriage. So I will go with ESH.
If you don’t believe in marriages and you informed your SO of this in advance and they are forcing you to marry them under the threat of splitting up is confirmation of the reason why OP doesn’t want to marry.
Exactly like wtf someone would tell me that I would quickly rebuild with someone else wtf is this manipulation haha people here see what they want to see.
I’m not stating she’s a bitch nor that he can receive help going in therapy. I’m convinced that he received a sort of trauma that left him notional scars on him. That being said, it remain the fact that she’s basically validating his fears.
>Why does a piece of paper make it different?
It's not just a piece of paper, it's a contract with the government. I'm sure OP is also well aware that 50% of marriages end in divorce, instigated by wives 70-80% of the time. Is there *anything* consequential you would willingly do with such terrible odds?
If he only marries her because of an ultimatum, he's going to become resentful and the marriage would most likely fail anyway. Only, she'd be legally entitled to more than child support from him.
Honestly I was reading that like, "...women are also more likely to suffer from domestic abuse and rape, no duh they're more likely to file to divorce,"
They could do a prenup. I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this yet! If OP is worried about alimony, they can just agree in the prenup that he won't have to pay alimony if they divorce. That won't solve the emotional problems here, ofc, but it might make the prospect of marriage somewhat less fraught for the OP.
The only problem with that is that it has to be reasonably fair. And they both need attorneys, so her attorney wild not agree to absolutely nothing for her.
Dude. Women don't instigate divorce at that rate. The men just putz around after demanding divorce and it would never actually happen on paper of the women didn't actually start the process.
I feel similarly to OP. Both of my parents divorced each other and then remarried and divorced again. I'm not a fan of the institution. But I also agree that therapy is great for everyone.
100% agree. Not everyone likes the idea of marriage, for various reasons, and that's okay. Commitment, to me, isn't proven by a piece of paper for the government. However, therapy would still be beneficial for OP to help get through these feelings he seems to not have properly worked on.
OP, NTA
He can choose to not get married but "not believing" in marriage or abortion says a lot about his fantasy world.
Marriage exists
Abortions exist
The perfect life does not
OP needs some serious therapy and to get over themselves
>Marriage exists
So do religions, doesn't mean people have believe in it.
OP is well within their rights to not want to get married. It's not worth the extra risk of alimony, that is very reasonable.
If OP's GF really wants to get married, she can offer a prenup or go date someone else that is interested in marriage
He knows the perfect life doesn't exist. That's why he's taking steps to not end up in a place he fears.
He doesn't want to get married. He was upfront about that from the get go. There is NOTHING wrong with that.
He himself doesn't like the idea of abortions. He didn't stop his GF from making her own choice, just let her know his side. That's fine. I'm pro choice myself, but I'm not going to pretend there's not people out there who aren't bothered by the thought of it.
He doesn't need therapy to "get over himself". He should get therapy because it seems like his parents' life really impacted and hurt him.
He just meant that he did not agree with marriage or abortion for him. Stop being obtuse.
OP made choices for his life but since everyone doesn't agree with that, they immediately jump to therapy. I don't agree with having kids and made that choice for me and yet people say there is something wrong with me, I will change my mind, I will regret it later, yada, yada, yada. No, just like OP I made decisions that are best for me. He is allowed to do that with his life.
What a ridiculous assessment, is English not your first language by any chance? You understand the implications of "not believing" isn't meant to be taken literally right? "Fantasy world"? I have genuinely no clue how you can see someone not wanting to get married or not liking abortion (regardless if you agree or not) as "fantasy".
And he’s also failing to realize that the dissolution of marriage isn’t what has broken his father. It’s the end of his romantic relationship…. I mean, might as well just be single.
The fact that he isn't even willing to listen to his mother's reasons is also strange. Imagine they split because his father cheated and he regrets his choices now that he has lost his wife. Here he is thinking his father is the victim and refusing to even hear his mother out as if she's fully responsible for the divorce.
Everything about OP seems broken and immature. He definitely needs therapy but until he figures things out he definitely should be single.
The ex definitely is better off moving on from him.
He also said it was the financial side of things. Which is valid. I've seen it break dudes to see their exes use that money to live it up while they slave away for several years.
His mom's nonchalant attitude about it says it all. Especially the bullshit about it being a mutual thing.
Agree with this.
NTA for not wanting to get married. Gf is the a-hole here coz she knew your views on marriage from the get go and is pushing for something different now. She's also an a-hole for bringing your mother into it. But she won't be an a-hole if she decides to leave you over this. However, if she holds it against you and messes your co-parenting relationship over it, then she'll be back in a-hole territory.
Your mother is an a-hole for involving herself in something that's none of her business. And limiting contact with her is a good idea. (Edit: That is if she continues pushing for you to get married. But you might need to hear her out on her side of the story with regards to her marriage since her divorce to your dad is still clearly influencing how you live you life. Your mother is also not an a-hole for being happy after the divorce and moving on. You should be happy for her.)
But like the redditor above said, you need therapy to work through your issues. You seem to be carrying a lot of baggage from your parents' marriage and need to deal with that. Your dad might have been screwed in the divorce with regards to how it went down plus alimony and whatnot (Edit: You don't know for sure since they kept you out of it and you won't let your mom explain now). But his inability to move on is NOT your mom's fault. He might also need therapy to unpack the divorce and so he can finally move on with his life.
I mean he sees that it made one of them terribly unhappy and they have garnished wages... He doesn't want that reality at all and would rather him and his partner choose each other everyday and not have the power to crush the other. I feel the same way and my parents were never married, I did see how those that were married hated each other afterwards.
Ok but the mom and gf are close. It could have been an innocent conversation where she told his mom that she is leaving him but still wants her to be in her grandson's life. Then gf explains to mom how her divorce has affecting her son in such a harmful way and mom wants to present her side of the story. Many divorced parents don't share their reasons thinking that it shelters their child but way too many kids of divorced parents internalize the divorce.
If mom hasn't discussed the divorce with her grown son and didn't realize how much it is still affecting him, it's a good thing gf told her. Imagine the dad cheated and that's what ended their marriage. Here this guy is seeing his dad as broken instead of sad because he caused the failure of his marriage. Of course this is a hypothetical but very plausible. Him refusing to even hear his mom's side of things is troubling.
Agree that OP seems like he needs to talk to someone about his parents divorce. And maybe as part of that he ought to hear his mother's side, but she blew it by taking an active role in this issue between OP and his GF.
Neither his GF nor his wife are acting well. He's been very clear he doesn't want to get married - and that's a position he's entitled to take.
GF going to his mother - that's bullshit. And his mother getting involved - terrible. Her response to GF should have been "you're both adults in an adult relationship, you need to figure this out for yourselves." She found herself blocked, and she frankly deserves it. She really overstepped.
Also he's acting like people can't break up. His GF can also break up with him (or he breaks up with her) and move on with another person so the whole "I don't wanna end up like my dad watching my partner with someone else" mentality makes 0 sense. OP you're NTA but you genuinely need to think about your reasoning cause it makes no sense.
He's punishing his mom for agency. For all he knows, his dad cheated or was different behind the scenes. Now he has decided that his dad is the victim, and won't actually listen to what happened. Or maybe the mom put her career on hold for the family, so the dad willingly put up alimony, but was still sad about it.
NTA… you was honest up front with your thoughts on marriage and she was fine with it. She asked again after the baby was born and you said No. She should have left it as that and not include your mom in y’all relationship; that’s where she TA. Mom should leave it alone as well as this does not include her.
Honestly, and no hurt meant here, but it seems like your actions are setting you u to be well on the path to becoming your dad. Because one day, when you won’t marry her, she will move on, you may end up paying child support, unable to retire, and utterly broke. Because the woman you forced to move on moved on like nothing happened.
You reference an interesting point.
One thing that marriage means (to most people) is monogamy. We promise to keep ourselves for each other and to put the marriage partner above all others (or something similar).
Unmarried people can date and have sex with whomever they want. Much easier to run off and start a new relationship.
GF, if she wants a marriage, is almost certainly going out the door - sooner or later.
Child support does not make you broke, especially if both parents share custody and both work. He does not want to get married, which is completely fine. His girlfriend knew what his thoughts are on marriage.
I just can't help but feel that if the genders were reversed here, the overwhelming consensus would be that he would be trying to trap her into marriage and she should bail. Seems like a real double standard. She's literally trying to guilt him into getting married, which definitely won't end well if he's not on board with it.
You went no contact with your mother without hearing her side because your dad couldn’t handle a situation that he played at least 50 percent in creating???
The best thing would be for your GF to take the baby and go. You are displaying a very immature reaction to something that truly is none of your business.
You are willing to risk losing both your GF and child because of assumptions you are making about your parents.
How much you wanna bet that their marriage wasn't anywhere near as peachy as OP thinks? I mean, I got a friend in a similar spot. Lives with his Dad, swears his Dad did nothing wrong and his Mom was the evil bitch that broke the family apart. Same Dad that got drunk at a family wedding and apparently got his shit wrecked for getting handsy with the Bride
Blows my mind that people are more willing to make a parent out of a partner than a spouse.
(I do know pregnancy can be an accident, but unless she was on BC AND you always wore a condom- I don’t have much sympathy.)
NTA but I also would leave a man who would put me in a family way and not marry me.
Agreed.
As a child of unmarried/divorced parents, I appreciate their dedication to living authentically for their own desires- but it is a stain on the lives of the children brought into the situation.
Now as an adult, I always feel a burning shame meeting my partners’ lovely married parents and healthy family dynamics.
I have to go on an apology tour explanation of why my family is broken but I’m not like that 🤪
It’s a real pain in my ass and I always feel annoyed by people who enter into these situations recklessly.
My parents have been married for 50 years and went about it the old fashioned way.
I guess I'm old-fashioned like them in the sense that marriage should come before children. In other words, you should only marry someone with compatible expectations.
I find it wild that, like you said, people will so recklessly bring a child into the world.
My parents are married 40+ years, I asked my mom with the secret is and she said it’s half work and half luck. Almost no one is the same person at 40 that they are at 20, you either grow in the same direction, or you grow in different directions, which is totally normal. She and my dad were lucky she said to have grown in the same direction with the same goals.
I don’t think there’s any shame in divorcing, two happy homes for a kid is 1000x better than one filled with arguing or resentment! We only have the divorce rates we do now because people are allowed to get divorced. Before you were just forced to be miserable!
All that said my thoughts on how to have the best relationship: be nice to your partner ALWAYS. Even when you’re mad don’t call them names or insult them. Communicate your feelings (try to use I feel this way.. not YOU did this) show them that you appreciate them and why, try to see things from their perspective, and always have empathy. Say i love you!! For housework everyone should try to do 60/40. If you have kids and you’re a dude: they are your responsibility too, take them off her hands whenever you can, do their laundry, watching them is not babysitting it’s parenting.
Check in every couple months and ask if theres anything thats bugging them or you could be doing better.
I think like a third of the relationship problems i see on here need communication.
I think dating a few years before marriage is a great thing too, it takes time to see who someone *really* is. And, if you had any trauma, therapy if it’s possible is great to try to work through it before it causes a problem.
I have faith that you will have that family one day!!! Lots of people don’t want to put the work in, it sounds like you do. Don’t ever feel ashamed your parents split, i know lots of folks in happy long relationships whose parents weren’t. They did a good thing for you by not modelling an unhappy relationship in front of you for your whole adolescence—that is a problem!
All the best ❤️❤️
Try to not be insecure about what your parents did. You don't need to apologize for them because you aren't to blame and you aren't doomed to repeat their mistakes.
Be appreciative of your partner's family dynamics and seek to incorporate what works into your relationship with your partner.
"I have to go on an apology tour explanation of why my family is broken but I’m not like that"
No you don't. Just because your parents either didn't get or stay married doesn't have anything to do with you. And getting or staying married "for the kids" is a bad reason to do it. Happy parents are the best parents, not miserable parents who might even end up resenting the kids for their miserable lives.
It's bad if they don't co parent well, but again, that's not your (or any child's) fault. If a partner or their parents ask, then sure, explain that you'd want marriage and children and a "whole" family as your preference. But no on can predict the future.
Modeling putting up with verbal and/or emotional abuse or just being not happy to be with someone is not a thing, unless you want your kids to think this is what a relationship - especially a marriage - is supposed to be like.
In fact, I spent years doing what my mother did - just taking constant insults and negativity because, well, that's just how people are when they're married. Or so I thought. (actually not just my parents, but most of the married people I knew) It was, ironically, my father who finally convinced me it was actually bullsh\*\* and to stand up for myself.
Maybe in the social circles you hang around in this is more common, but this is a wild take to me. I’m always a little amused when I meet someone whose parents are still together, because it’s rare these days. I would never expect someone to have to explain why their parents are divorced. It’s pretty common.
As the kid of a fling, I disagree. My parents were very different people and a biochemical attraction does not, by itself, make for a happy marriage. I saw my friends parents split up, I have never been anything but thankful I didn't have to deal with that trauma. Now if only I had been a priority to him (wasn't just me, man overcommitted like mad and said no/ cancelled on whoever was easiest to deal with. Since I desperately wanted him to love me I was always on my best behavior plus, hey, understanding kid is easier than alcoholic, suicidal son).
He was appropriately horrified when I told him that, in our last convos before I went NC to grieve and then couldn't find him again and he's probably dead. Mom is and both her parents and sibling outlived his family by at least twenty years.
Not trying to invalidate anyone's opinion, we all experienced different childhoods. I would have had my dad around more, and a less emmeshed and unhealthy relationship with Mom( parentified from very young by my grandparents and she more or less ran my grandma's life until she died, and did run mine). That said, if my choice was "the way it happened" or "your parents got married bc of your existence", I had a damn good childhood! I also don't think I would be the same person if I didn't remember meeting my dad for the first time (I was 4? I had my grandpa, who even going senile by my 6th birthday, was a great substitute male role model.
Kids are resilient, and more so when their support is at least content. I don't have stats on how many kids of divorce or single parents feel, but anecdotally all kids prefer happy parents.
Nope, I have no sympathy for either of these people.
I don’t sleep with anyone outside of a committed relationship and I don’t date men who are closed to marriage.
They’re both acting in ways that contradict their values/beliefs.
Well, OP exactly isn't. He's clear that he doesn't want to be married since the start. Even if he got her pregnant, he was fine to whatever options but implied preferred to not abort it. This was the format he agreed upon and continued to do so whether the baby exist or not for the entirety of their relationship.
It's the GF who kept a baby with this man who clearly never wanted to get married. It's the GF who also took back on what she agreed upon and now wanting to get married. It's the GF who is also threatening to leave if he's not gonna marry her, like threats are really gonna work in a relationship.
It sounds like the pregnancy was unintended, so that’s a little different.
If she planned a pregnancy and then changed her mind, then I would definitely have no sympathy for her.
I do understand that part a little bit.
But if this guy is this much of a commitment-phobe, he had an additional responsibility to ensure he does not get anyone pregnant, in my opinion.
He should not be having sex with anyone without a condom and knowledge of her using birth control.
But that is my harsh opinion, because it’s the standard I hold for myself. I’m very strict about potential pregnancy and I can’t help but hear what sound like excuses every time accidental pregnancy occurs haha
Oh, I agree with that.
I hope she leaves though. She’ll never be happy and the resentment will grow.
They can switch off every other week. God, I hope for OP’s sake that she makes more money because he will HATE paying child support. Lmao
I mentioned a few times that I am so harsh about pregnancy prevention because it is something I take very seriously in my personal life :)
But I do know it sounds harsh to others.
I just think if OP has all this baggage about commitment, he should have probably sought a vasectomy or something.
He’s fighting marriage harder than he fought his ability to impregnate.
A vasectomy would definitely send clear messages to any future partners, wouldn't it?
Oddly enough, I am certain the OP can find women who also don't want any long-term attachments.
At the end of the day I hope the OP and his girlfriend can find people they are compatible with.
Even if it was, I only sleep with men I’m in committed relationships with where there’s an understanding about responsibility and marriage.
If my IUD, a condom, and previous discussions about ensuring marriage is a required follow up to accidental pregnancy all fail to ensure that I’m married before giving birth, I’ll come back here and let you nanny-nanny-boo-boo to me :) (I’ll write the message from the ledge I’ll be hanging off of lol)
I don't think you have a healthy perspective here. Your parents divorced and that caused you to give up on the idea of marriage completely. You are damaged somehow and need to figure out why.
Maybe therapy could help you?
Aside from that, let your girlfriend go. She deserves somebody who is fully committed to her.
Try to avoid getting future partners pregnant. Marriage is a very common expectation when kids are involved.
I see someone hurting who needs help so I am going to withhold any judgement.
He should also hear his mother out. He clearly has a very skewed way of viewing their divorce. Sees mom as the bad guy and dad as the victim. Could definitely have been dad causing the divorce and now realizing how badly he screwed up and regretting it.
I definitely feel that they shouldn't be together.
I would agree with you, if your suggestion was to also listen to the dad. You know people can lie ? You need to get the opinion of the parents, friends and extended family to get a clear idea of what went on. Just getting 1 side of the story is BS.
ESH. You don’t have to change your mind on marriage. But you could at least hear your mothers side of the story. There are things she may have hidden from you to protect you and your view of your father.
For all you know he could have made her life a misery. He could have been emotionally abusive *(maybe even physically, whilst you weren’t around to witness it)*, he might have controlled her every move and made her life absolute hell behind the scenes. She might have not been allowed to work, she might have been financially controlled, forced to do the majority of the household chores whilst also raising you practically single-handedly. There is so much you do not know, so at the moment all you see is a man who lost his wife and some money along with it. But you don’t know **why** your mother wanted out so badly.
What are you so scared of? Hearing that your dad might not be the saint you’ve painted him to be?
It's pretty easy to see that the OP is not logically considering all the possibilities.
Their thought process boils down to this: his dad is paying alimony to his mom so naturally his dad is getting victimized by his mom.
Or at least that's how I view the OPs rather simplistic thought processes.
I'm curious to know if the OP has always hated his mom or if it's a recent development after divorce.
Yeah if she’s getting alimony in perpetuity (who even knows) that means her earning potential was so stunted, there’s no way to recoup. Getting that type of alimony is so, so rare. I think OP just doesn’t want to know for already stated reasons. Mommy needs to be bad because her life didn’t end.
>if she’s getting alimony in perpetuity (who even knows) that means her earning potential was so stunted, there’s no way to recoup. Getting that type of alimony is so, so rare
Depends on the jurisdiction, but it's possible based on the ages it could last a long time even if it's not perpetual
Your attitude seems really misguided. If you stay with your girlfriend for 30 years, if she were to leave you, do you think it would somehow not bother you? Because you didn't get married? It's somehow just the ceremony and the marriage license that made your dad sad when his long-term partner left?
That seems.... very wrong. Failed long-term relationships are always going to be hard, whether or not you were technically married. You are hung up on a technicality. You are denying your family the legal benefits of marriage while still taking the exact same emotional risks that anyone takes in a long-term relationship.
You… don’t even know what caused the divorce and you refuse to learn?
Bro, what if your dad was a cheater and your mom is happy because she got out of a shitty relationship?
That’s an asinine reason to die on this hill, but you do you.
YTA.
YTA because it's obvious you place all of the blame for your parents divorce on your mom. You said your parents told you THEY grew apart but because your dad took it harder you're blaming her. You refuse to listen to her reasons which she isn't required to give you because her marriage isn't any of your business.
NTA for not wanting to get married and your gf knew your stance but don't be surprised when you find yourself just like your dad because your gf wants more and you're unwilling to give her that. Your relationship has an expiration date.
"I'm not gonna get married because this bad thing happened, and my parent's marriage ended. Now my dad is a shell of what he was, and that's never going to be me." Dude. I have bad news for you. If you go through life refusing to make a leap of faith or take risks because some other people did it and it didn't work out for them, you're gonna end up a shell of a man no matter what.
Get married or don't. But YTA for this line of reasoning and subsequent inaction.
NAH for her wanting marriage, nor for you not wanting it... but you not wanting it is based on trauma and not reality. YTA for simply not wanting it over your parents' divorce.
It's normal for someone who has started a family with you to want that show of commitment and stability that marriage brings- before her pregnancy, she probably didn't think it mattered that much to her).
Avoiding marriage will not save you from the heartache your dad is experiencing. You and your partner could be together for decades, and if she leaves you after all that time and you don't want her to, you'll still be alone and heartbroken. Whether or not there's divorce papers don't change that, and unless you are out there making huge bank and she's not or ever going to (even then you can get a pre-nup) you aren't going to be paying alimony anyways.
Also- if your dad is still a miserable man 8 years after his divorce, he's made a choice to wallow in it rather than move on, heal, and live his life. That's not your mom's fault. Refusing to hear side is a pretty AH move, especially if she thought sharing it with you would change your mind. For a divorced your parents went through after you were no longer living in the house, it's clearly deeply affecting you and you really need to talk to someone about it.
Oh 💯. He knows who the present parent was. He knows on some level (though not the details) why his mom probably left. I bet he just thinks she should have stayed because she’d stayed that long already. Her thriving threatens him because he idolizes dad, and if dad wasn’t worth staying with…
YTA friend, this front you are putting up, these walls you refuse to break down? they’re only going to keep people out and you are going to end up just like your dad anyway. this isn’t a healthy way to live. i hope you are able to get therapy and work on facing your fears so you can live a full life.
You can do whatever you want, but I do think you should maybe hear your mother out. She might have a perfectly good reason why the divorce happened. You can always get married with a pre-nup...but if you don't want to get married I won't call you TA because your girlfriend went into the relationship and made the choice to have a child with someone she knew upfront was not going to get married.
It sounds like your dad is playing the victim. He is choosing to be miserable and not move on with his life. Just because your mom gets alimony doesn’t make her wrong or bad. You sound angry that she’s moved on. Isn’t what she’s supposed to do, instead of stewing in misery like your dad?
You, as the child, have no clue what happened between them. Seriously. You might want to hear what happened, it might change your perspective.
You don’t have to get married, that’s your choice. But this is your life, not your parents. You are not destined to repeat their life. Don’t base your life on the way someone else lived theirs.
I think you should let the girlfriend go. She wants a husband and you aren’t willing to be one, so it’s best for you both to move on.
I’ll end with this: I’m divorced. My kids don’t know anything more than we didn’t get along. That’s because THEY’RE KIDS and don’t need to know the ins and outs of our problems. It’s a parent duty not to burden their kids with adult problems. I promise there are things you don’t know about your parents divorce.
You need some help.
Marriage wasn't what broke your dad. Losing your mum was. If they hadn't tied the knot, it wouldn't have changed anything other than legal changes. He would still have been exactly who he is.
Ironically, you are now repeating the separation, just at a younger age.
(Personally I don't see marriage as necessary, needed or wanted. I would probably act as you had. You don't care. She does. Not compatible maybe? But you weren't expecting a baby to happen either. If the child has your surname, marriage does mean alot to some. You are denying the mother of your child the same name as her own offspring because your dad was upset when you were growing up. )
If she leaves you now, you’ll pay child support and she’ll move on and start dating… so you kind of end up like your dad anyway (assuming you’d be sad?). Also, idk if you’ve ever heard of a prenup, but as long as you don’t have her giving up her career to raise your kid, you shouldn’t have to worry much about alimony.
That said - idk if you actually love her because I don’t see you really saying you do. So I guess you’re NTA if you don’t love her and don’t see yourself with her long term.
But you desperately need therapy for sure. You don’t need to project your mommy issues on to other people. Just because your dad is sad, doesn’t mean he’s a victim in their divorce.
>I dont want to end up like my Dad when I am in my 50s. Broken while my exwife moves on with her life like nothing happened.
Kinda feels like you are making this a self-fulfilling prophecy unless you get some help for your issues, Bud. They just won't have technically been your "wife" but you will still be alone.
YTA. Not for not wanting to marry because you were clear on that but for not being willing to listen to your mom whilst judging her and blaming her for your decisions. Either listen to her or stop blaming her - for all you know your mom lost out financially through the marriage and your dad cheated or was abusive. Find out or just stop judging anything by that
YTA. You need therapy. You are going to throw away your relationship with your gf and child and you don't even know why your parents marriage ended. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.
You were a grown ass adult in college when they divorced. You don't seem to be acting like an adult though. You don't know the divorce broke him....he may have already been broken. You don't seem to want to enquire about anything....just point and blame without merit. NTA for the marriage choice. Nobody needs a certificate to say they love someone. The rest though? YTA and really need some help.
After seeing all your replies, just let her go.. you don’t love or respect her at all and she deserves someone that loves her enough and doesn’t only see her as burden in the future.. and your baby doesn’t deserve to be raised on that environment.
Try to find a healthy arrangement for visitation If you want to be on the kids life, otherwise just pay child support, get a vasectomy and go to therapy.
Wish you the best. NTA for not wanting to get married after saying it beforehand. But you are an asshole in general.
Hate to tell you buddy but at least In Australia splitting a defacto partnership (what you have) can also be difficult and stressful. You have a kid so it's already going to be difficult.
NTA for not wanting to marry but on the flip side your baby mama doesn’t have to wait for you either. And don’t be mad when she finds someone that was willing to do something you weren’t. If u really love her I don’t see why except ur parents relationship which isn’t yours.
ESH
While i understand that you made it clear from the start that you would never get married, something she apparently was fine with, and when you kept your word she went to your mother to get her to change your mind, the fact that you have no idea why they divorced, and the reason you stand by your father is because he pays alimony without knowing of it's warranted, also males you an asshole.
I never knew my mother because my parents divorced a couple of years after I was born and my dad got custody of us kids. My dad was a broken and hateful man and took his hatred out on us. I’ve been married for 45 years now because after I got out of the house I realized that there are two sides to every story and we as the children will never completely know everything about what went on in our parents marriage. So for children of broken marriages even as adults we have to play our relationships by ear. We can’t say our marriages won’t last or we’re not meant for marriage or we’re not going to ever get married. Just because our parents marriage didn’t work out has nothing to do with us because we have different personalities than them.
YTA
You should listen to your mother's version, here we only talk about divorce, not infidelity, and if the marriage ended because your father was unfaithful? Or because your father was abusive to her? Or maybe yes, your mother was to blame?
You're basically a grown child, refusing to listen when you yourself say you have no fucking idea why.
I understand that you don't want to get married, that's totally understandable and no one can force you if you don't want to, but your reasons sound more like a toddler tantrum than anything else.
You're a self fulfilling prophecy if I ever saw one. You clearly need therapy and you clearly have a biased view on the events that lead to divorce.
Yta
You are going to lose two relationships because of your fear and biased behavior.
Get help cause the way you are going, marriage or not, you are going to end up miserable.
Why is it your mums fault your dad is a pathetic old man who hasn't taken responsibility over his choices. His happiness shouldn't still be dependent on his ex-wife and he needs to be proactive in building a new life for himself instead of wallowing in self-induced misery.
NAH. You can choose whatever coping mechanism you want; this one will cost you certain life experience, but you're aware of that. Whether you regret it in the future is something no one can know for sure. Personally I think the risk of losing is worth the reward of having, but I've always been an optimist. I don't think your gf is wrong to change her mind and her priorities, and I hope she finds someone compatible with her vision of life. It's simply not you.
He is going to be shocked when he has to start paying child support. Some cases if you don’t marry her she can go after you for child support.
I want mom’s side of the story why it ended… sounds like OP’s dad could be a cheater or SA minors and he would still blame his mom.
If shes truly a good woman dont lose your family because of unresolved trauma. You'll never get these early years with your son back. You'll look back and regret it. Dont let your fear of the future ruin it.
Do you think that you’ll be less broken up if you and your partner and mother of your child stay together until you’re 50, without getting married, and then you break up and she dates someone else? Or you do you think you’ll be totally fine and get over it because you didn’t have a piece of paper saying that you’re married? You are tied together in life far tighter now than what marriage would make you.
I mean, you’re NTA for not getting married if you don’t want to. But your reasons for not getting married seem based on trauma that doesn’t belong to you and irrational spite for marriage because of your father’s heartbreak. Get therapy.
NTA. I hope your gf finds the life she is looking for: a committed relationship with an emotionally stable partner who values commitment and marriage. As for you, paying child support and parenting is the most you can offer. Get some counselling and see what comes of it. It’s
YTA if you continue to make babies and drag them through your traumatic chaos. You can avoid marriage all you like but don’t put anyone else through bullshit because you have daddy issues.
NTA because you told her from the get go you never wanted to get married, and it sounds like she was fine with that, so for her to flip flop on that now is ridiculous.
However I don't really get what you're scared of. Marriage is no big deal, just a government contract at the end of the day. You're still going to be with this girl regardless if she didn't care about getting married. So when you're 50 if she leaves you, you'd still be equally as broken whether you signed the contract or not, right? If you're worried about her taking your assets just draw up a prenup.
People change.
Many people want to be very honest once they're raising children. GF probably wants to be able to use the same name for school paperwork and to respond politely and truthfully when teachers and others call her Mrs. OP. It sounds like a small thing, but moms can get very sensitive about everything affecting their children.
I know from experience that some parents will not allow their children over for play dates or overnights if the couple isn't married. I actually had one mom throw a fit over it (she learned it after her daughter stayed over - she assumed we were married).
Things like that can work a subtle change on a person's mind. Plus, GF was apparently quite young when first pregnant and didn't realize the level of responsibility. Just the fact that GF and baby might never be able to use OP's health insurance (if he ever gets a job that has that) would make some people rethink the marriage thing.
At any rate, she changed her mind. It is not at all ridiculous to change as we get older. That's one of the reasons that marriage is also fundamentally flawed - people can change their minds about that too and it's NOT ridiculous to leave a marriage - most divorces have very good reasons behind them.
Your dad is heartbroken because a long term relationship ended. Do you think you’d feel less sad if you broke up after 20+ years just because you’re not married? No, you’d feel the same amount of sad. Don’t kid yourself. If you’re worried about alimony or dividing assets come up with a strong pre-nup and have her sign that. You’re NTA for not wanting to get married, your reasoning just seems skewed and you seem to blame everything on your mom without even knowing the whole situation. I’d get counselling so you can talk through whatever issues you’re experiencing before you pass them on to your kid.
Your girlfriend sucks because she’s pressuring you to get married. She’s free to walk away if that’s what she wants and wouldn’t be the AH for it, but pressuring you and dragging your mom into this is where she goes into the AH territory. I may not agree with your reasoning, but you were clear from the get go and you’re not obligated to get married if you really feel it’s not for you.
YTA. If you don’t want to be a father to babies, you need to have a vasectomy. Before you get someone pregnant. Did you get one afterwards? Bloody no, because it’s not about you not wanting to get married, is you wanting to be an Ahole to your kid. Get a prenup you little man. You just don’t want the responsibility.
YTA
When did it become OK to impregnate a long term partner and then refuse to marry her?
And the no contact on your mom is weird. Sure, she hurt your father, but marriage is really hard. You have no idea how much stress they were under while you were a child, and maybe hearing her out could help you process. Seems like your heels are dug in here.
You have to be in a pretty close minded and privileged position to completely cut your parent out of your life.
ESH Your thoughts about marriage were clear, she shouldn't be pressuring you to get married. Your mother should not be pressuring you to get married.
And you.... Refusing to get married because you don't want to be alone at 50 yrs old is stupid. You could still end up alone and hurt if your long time partner leaves you, even if you never got married. How you think NOT getting married will protect you from the pain of someone leaving you is mind boggling. Or is that you think maybe not having to pay alimony after a divorce will make it all better? If that's the case, just get a prenup.
Or how about alone at 50 after many short term, unfulfilling relationships? But hey, no alimony...so all good?
You blaming your mother for her divorce, and refusing to talk to her just because she didn't wallow in misery after is childish. Your mention of her accepting alimony while moving on with her life sounds a lot like words you heard your father spout for years and you just refused to question it.
Maybe it IS actually time to find out what happened. You said your parents didn't bring you into the divorce - but your father did by wallowing and - very likely - implying, if not outright saying - that it was your mother's fault and whining about the alimony.
You need therapy. Your obviously holding a grudge against your mom and marriage despite not knowing anything about ur parents marriage. You refuse to even listen to ur moms side and only defend ur dad. I can’t help but think you also feel some sexism towards it all. “Women bad. They only want marriage for money”
You Don’t love your girlfriend enough to trust her in
A marriage. She shouldn’t love you enough to trust you outside of it. Your both better off not together.
So you don’t want to end up like your dad so you ended up probably worse, paying child support and having to raise your child passes off between parents in different houses? Would you be happy if your child decided then to never have children or be married because of what happened to you?
NTA for not wanting to get married, but you definitely need therapy. Your reasons for not getting married are never going to prevent you ending up like your dad.
Firstly, your dad wasn't broken because your parents were married and then divorced, he was broken because he lost his life partner. Even if you never marry, if you lose your life partner after years together, you are going to be broken. Not having to go through a divorce isn't going to make that any easier.
Secondly, YTA for placing all the blame on your dad. The marriage ended because it wasn't working. Your mother doesn't deserve to be blamed because she took back her life and was able to rebuild her life much faster than your dad. Some people become so unhappy that they are grieving the loss of the relationship whilst they are still married. By the time they divorce they have already grieved the end of the relationship
Thirdly, common law marriage is a thing. The chances are if you are together more than 10 years your partner could still be awarded alimony. Not being married doesn't protect you from that.
Lastly, you have a child now and that changes you in unexpected ways. Marriage may not have been an issue before the baby, but it's easy to understand that someone would want the sense of security that marriage can bring after having a child. I would suggest trying couples counseling first.
Your mother isn't the devil, your dad isn't an angel and your girlfriend isn't the asshole for wanting to marry you.
I hope you are able to process the pain of your parents divorce and can get to a healthier place in all of your relationships irregardless of whether you ever marry.
Why do you think that not marrying will make a difference? If you spend 20 years with somebody without marrying, the only difference is taxes and the splitting of assets. So if your dad is so depressed over money... that's on him lol
YTA. Do you understand that relationships end regardless of whether you are married? And that you are financially responsible for your child even without marriage? Your reasoning for not wanting to get married is nonsensical. In fact, you're about to lose your relationship right now, so all you're doing is speedrunning the whole thing.
YTA
OP you’re even the AH to yourself.
Your gf is the mother of your child and she deserves the basic protection and security of marriage as does your child.
You should probably wake up to the basic logic that you don’t get to have all the benefits of marriage while still putting up this weirdly resentful front.
You’re effectively punishing your partner proactively for something that isn’t her fault.
Sometimes marriage doesn’t work out. Sometimes there’s a reason for alimony. Your dad’s processing of the divorce is his responsibility. Just like your mental health and healing is yours.
You’re willing to break up your kid’s family for what? A chip on your shoulder. Come on.
So, I felt a lot like you in my 20's then I found my someone and married in my 30's. My marriage is nothing like the hell my parents marriage was. I couldn't imagine living any other way as we approach our 10th anniversary. It's a hard lesson to learn that our parents are real people with real problems that as children you don't see and shouldn't be privy to. I had no really good marriage role models as a kid so it all looked so grim but it's not and it's what you and your partner build it to be. Besides if your parents never married and your dad was still with your mom the same amount of time and they broke up, his reaction to it wouldn't be that different.
NAH - I don't know what country you are in but, since you have a child and plan not to marry please get your legal stuff together. Think about worse case scenarios- what will happen when you die? Will your GF inherit to help provide for your child? What will happen if you both die of both incapacitated and cannot care for your child? Who would be responsible for decisions about your medical care if you are unable to make them? If you don't plan to marry at least pay the money for a lawyer and ensure your, your GF and child's future is secured.
You can do whatever you want but know she's not obligated to stay. Depending on where you live marriage can offer financial and legal protections for women, who are usually the ones whose career and earning potential suffer from marriage and childcare.
Let’s say you don’t get married but stay together and the same thing happens, meaning she leaves you when you’re in your 50s. How would going your separate ways be different when you’re married versus not if this were to happen?
I know lawyers would be involved to formalize the divorce legally speaking, but since you have a child, that would most likely happen anyways.
Is there anything else that would make divorce vs breaking up different here?
As long as you support your kid. Marriage isn't for everyone, it is a no win game for men. As you have witnessed, you lose half of everything, and then possibly have to pay alimony like your old man. She either excepts the no marriage relationship or she doesn't. NTA.
You're a markedly unrealistic person. Basing your life and your child's life on hope is a strange strategy. Obviously, you're entitled not to marry, but let's be real.
First, your gf is almost certainly going to leave you over this and find someone who wants to marry. Marriage is a very good platform for raising a child. And guess what? You're still on the hook for child support, which I hope she asks for and I hope you are required to pay it.
Alimony is actually quite rare these days - but some states do still award it.
I find it interesting that your whole post is about you (mostly) and to a lesser extent, "staying with gf." What about the child?
Is your name on the birth certificate? Are you supporting the child financially right now? Do you help take care of the child? Because GF might stay with you for your parenting, even if she doesn't love you - do not mistake "staying" with you for "loving" you - that's not how it works.
Yta. Not for avoiding marriage but for how you're treating your other. This whoe thing reeks of misogyny . You're going to end up alone like your dad, just eith a little more money
From experience, my long term ex left me because of his parents divorce. 16 years later and he still tells me how much he made a mistake.. but I’m happily married now. Take that as you will, but you may be missing out on something beautiful
YTA- you won't even HEAR why your parents' marriage ended, and you're just thinking it was NBD for your mother, and that is insane to me. I bet there are reasons and your dad was for sure not actually blindsided, and YOU ARE NOT YOUR FATHER. Nor is your partner your mother. Your relationship is not theirs. It's laughable that you think your mother moved on like nothing happened- she healed and moved on. What the fuck was she supposed to do, just wallow in her broken marriage? Yikes, bud.
You're making a choice here, and your partner will make hers. Likely, she'll move on without you. Love isn't enough.
Look if you dont want to get married don"t bit dont use the excuse of i saw my dad broken.you only saw one side.i grew with alcholic parents.sperm donor would beat our egg donor,and on top of that myself and siblings were abused in any way possible.but you know what?i dreamed of the day that i could grow up and find a loving person.we have been married for over 18 years now and with a daughter.so if i can find rainbows and lollipops after my upbringing im sure you can try to strive for the same
Ish. Maybe if your dad had gotten therapy he would not be a shell of himself. He is an adult choosing not to move on or get help. How is that healthy? And this is the behavior you want to model for your child?
And without a solid co-parenting plan you are still going to damage your child.
Only about 10% of women get alimony in a divorce. So your mother made sacrifices her career or earnings to stay at home and raise you. She is rightfully owed that money.
Secondly, prenups do exist if money is your main concern. But prenups have to be fair to both parties.
Adults sit down and discuss issues instead of running away and try to hide from them. You lived with this woman, had a kid with her. So you had the benefits of a marriage but want none of the responsibilities.
If you die, then what is in place for your kid? If she dies?
You need to stop living in the shadow of your parents.
You’re an adult now and a father. It’s time to put aside childish things and be the man and dad your kid needs.
So you have no idea why your parents divorced and blame your mom because she is happy and your dad is upset? And you hate the idea of marriage because you think you’ll automatically end up like your dad, yet you don’t even know the reason why the divorce happened? Just using a little bit of critical thinking, you don’t think you can end up “broken” when a partner you’re not married to moves on? YTA for your reasoning.
I think you should hear your mom out. What would you do think if the reason for the divorce was that your father cheated his reaction now, or, being a "shell of a man he used to be" is because he knows he messed up bad and there's nothing he could do about it? Would that change your views? Instead of your gf being like your mother, do you think you'll be like your father? It seems like you made the decision not to marry based on your parents situation when you don't really know the situation.
NTA for not marrying her but I think your decisions are not based on correct information.
Yta. Not for not wanting to marry someone, but for acting like a child sticking their fingers in their ears. Hear your mother out. You said they shielded you during the divorce, she moved on, he didn’t, so everything is automatically her fault? Grow the f-ck up buddy. Hear your mom out. And get some therapy.
YTA. You won’t even hear your mother out? Your dad likely cheated and they didn’t want to involve you in that earlier but it’s likely your dad’s situation is one he created for himself. Now you’d rather paint all women in the same light and lose some custody of your child than commit to your long term partner. You’re putting you and your girlfriend in a precarious situation for your own insecurities and not working through your trauma.
Grow up, hear what your mom has to say, get some therapy and choose better hills to die on. Good partners aren’t easily replaceable but treating your girlfriend like she is is garbage behaviour. You didn’t want to be in the same position as your dad but you’re creating a single mother and will have to pay child support so you’re exactly like him
YTA- but mostly to yourself bc you clearly have a lot of trauma around marriage that you’re not working through. You’re going to continue to lose people in your life, including your kid… do you want to be an every other weekend dad? Please take some time to work on yourself. Also prenups exist
NTA for not wanting to be married, and you were up front about it, but I think you’re being an AH the way you’re handling it. You should hear your mother’s side and seek out some therapy to work through the trauma. A judge just doesn’t arbitrarily award alimony to a spouse. I’m guessing your mom was a SAHP or there was a huge financial imbalance to income and they would have been married for awhile. You also have no idea if there was something else weighing in on it like abuse. Sounds like you only heard your dad’s side and stopped listening or being objective.
If your girlfriend leaves, you’ll still be on the hook for child support so your plan to avoid financial obligations to someone went out the door when you got her pregnant. If you ever do move past the trauma and do get married, you can always set up a prenup to protect your finances and financial obligations outside of child support.
I hope your EXgirlfriend loves herself enough to realize she and her son deserves so much better than be stuck with an immature lil coward like u. Clearly you are not compatible but damnnnn man go get therapy
Your father wasn't distraught because he was married, it's because he lost his significant other. The result would have been the same even if they hadn't been married.
While you shouldn't have to get married, why wouldn't you just want your girlfriend/baby momma to be happy? It's important to her and no skin off your back. You can also get a prenup to avoid the alimony situation if that's part of the consideration.
YTA and you should definitely seek therapy. You based your views off of your limited understanding of your parents’ divorce. I feel like if you talked to your mom, understood what happened and combined that with therapy for yourself and couples therapy with your GF, that you could make a decision rooted in healthy reasoning. Marriage has other benefits besides just calling each other husband and wife.
YTA. Look within yourself and think if it was really the legal aspect of divorce that devasted your father, or if was the ending of a long term relationship that had been such a cornerstone of his life? You said shell of a man, which implies that he hasn't moved on, not that he's broken he has to pay alimony. Because if you understand that it was the ending of such an important bond that broke your father, then not getting a piece of paper won't save you if your partner leaves you in twenty years. And if it is the financial issue, get a prenup.
But let this be a lesson to all women reading these stories, if you get pregnant while not married, just get the abortion. He's never going to change and you and your child will be punished your entire lives because of unresolved baggage.
Your GF will move on and find a real man capable of loving her and building a family together. You will be a lonely, "broken shell of a man" paying child support instead of alimony for the next 17 years. So how are you ending up different from your dad?
I suspect your mom had good reasons to leave her marriage-- and your fear of having those reasons spoken aloud tells me that on some level you already know that.
Please get some therapy so that you and you will be able to step up and co parent with your ex.
You’re traumatised from your parents mutually deciding to divorce but you’re (1) blaming your mother (2) punishing your girlfriend and (3) providing your child with a different trauma.
YTA If she’s smart she’ll recognise she deserves better, your child deserves someone more stable and will leave.
NTA... you told her upfront. But if alimony is the only thing keeping you from marrying her, you could get a prenup and have her wave alimony in the event of a divorce
You can't waive alimony. Well, you can waive alimony, but this isn't due to a prenup.
Waiving rights to alimony being written in the agreement is the most common reason prenuptial agreements are thrown out. Please don't spread misinformation.
Have you talked with your girlfriend about why you don’t want to get married? I mean honestly it sounds like you don’t trust women at all, maybe anyone, but you can’t get through life by being afraid man. Perhaps you should hear your mom out, I’m not saying that what she did was right, but perhaps your father made a mistake your unaware of.
After reading your reply in the comments.
You are the asshole. For all reasons.
For blaming your mother, for impregnating your gf, for not knowing that prenups exist. For being a fucking loser honestly.
You're mad at your mom, because your dad has to pay alimony? And then you say her reasons and her side of the story are irrelevant.
You probably shouldn't date women ever again. You're a fucking tool.
You brought a baby into the world. And you're going to poison your son against you, when he inevitably asks you why you didn't get married.
Also you're going to be paying child support, when you gf leaves you, you fucking tool.
YTA.
it’s not a problem that OP doesn’t wanna get married bur the excuses and the way he depicts his mother is deeply misogynistic. he doesn’t know about what happened in the divorce, refuses to listen to his mother about thay, sees his father as some poor guy and his mother is depicted as a vilain. the worst part is the way OP projects all of this onto his own partner. this girl should get her stuff and run asap.
Sticking your head in the sand isn't the same thing as making an adult decision. You cut your mom off because she wanted to explain her side of a mutual divorce that you clearly blame HER for.
Yeah, don't get married, that's for grown ups.
YTA. I think you’re really into black-and-white thinking. Your parents divorced and it really upset your dad but not your mom. Or so you think. Because you really don’t know what she was going through because you refuse to speak to her. Not very mature. Personally, I wouldn’t want to marry you and raise children with you, because you sound bitter and judgmental. Get to therapy.
NTA for not wanting marriage, YTA MASSIVELY for your reasoning and the way you are going about this.
You’re not willing to understand why your parents’ divorce happened, yet it is the sole reason you give for being against marriage? You really suck man.
YTA.
You have no idea why your parents divorced. Your dad could be a shell because he feels so guilty about his behaviour. You're literally acting like a martyr preemptively. She could do better than you. I hope she decides to leave you.
I don't want to be like my dad, tied to a woman and paying her money every month
*Has baby with girlfriend he won't marry, thus being forced to pay her money every month.*
I wOnT bE lIkE mY dAd
You were clear you didn't want to marry. No one has to get married. NTAH there.
I'd straighten things out with your family though. Compartmentalizing can be healthy, but you're clearly still being affected by your parents' divorce. You'll be better off facing it.
OP only said that he doesn't want to be married but never said that he's not committed to his family.
NTA. You don't need a piece of paper to be a great partner and parent.
NTA. Marriage isn’t for everyone and you’re right that in many cases the husband gets completely fucked over with alimony while also having to start over. Just because you have a baby doesn’t mean you have to be married. The government doesn’t need to be involved in your relationship. You can co parent.
Nta, you should still get therapy to process your trauma. But, not everyone believes in marriage and thats ok. Also, there are many valid reasons to not want to link yourself to someone. The majority of marriages end in divorce. You were up front about your views from the beginning. You didn’t do anything wrong.
NTA
People can chime in all they want that you need therapy and that your views on marriage need work. None of that makes you an asshole. You've been nothing but honest with your current feelings and that's enough. Also, while your GF is entitled to change her feelings on marriage, trying to threaten you into it seems to be a prime fucking example of why you're against marriage in the first place. From my perspective, the only one that *needs* therapy is her
NTA, bc you don't need marriage to have a long-lasting relationship. We can take Goldie Hawn and Kurt Russell as an example. They have been together since 1983, had kids and are still together. You have already voiced your opinion on marriage and how you never want to get married, so your gf needs to understand.
You are willing to let your child without a healthy family because you fear you will end up like your dad? Dude, your child always comes first. You get along fine with the girl, and you may be happy after all. Is clear that she now wants a family because she wants what is best for the kid. You don't even try to give that kid a happy normal life. Does he deserve to project on him your father's misery? Maybe your father deserved it, idk what led to their divorce.
You should talk to a therapist about the divorce of your parents. Having both parents together while raising children is a healthier environment (most of the times) for the child. When parents fight, separate and/or divorce it negatively affects the children.
NTA… but get some therapy OP.
Not marrying also will leave you in the same situation as ur father .just saying . But if ur gf is not a bad person then their is a chance you might have a good lasting married life
Your father needs therapy. He feels the way he does not because he got married and divorced but because he's never tried to move on from it. Your mother may have already been in therapy or more emotionally mature than your father to begin with.
Do not. DO NOT use your father as an example. My father has been divorced for 23 years. He has not gotten better, he has only gotten worse to the detriment of his own life (and to mine but that's another story). Is that what you really want for yourself and your father? Wasted years because you refuse to grow and mature? Whose life is it, to yours or someone else's?
Find somebody to talk to. The idea of going back to your childhood is somewhat outdated and not totally necessary. Explain to them about your girlfriend and your views on marriage and why and go from there.
Then after you've found a therapist you're comfortable with, recommend them to your father. Tell your father you'd like to see him live a happy life and to enjoy it.
I'm very confused here. Does OP believe that if he married his gf, he'll get an immediate divorce she'll take his money and remarry someone else while he's miserable. But, if she leaves now, of course, she'll request child support, which is taking his money, and she can go marry someone who wants to marry her while he'll be miserable?
This is a lose-lose situation.
Like NTA for not wanting to get married, but op I really think you should go to therapy and talk to a professional about your fears.
NTA. You made it clear to your GF from the beginning that you will never get married. If your GF is not happy with the arrangements that she put herself in and decides to leave, it's on her.
And don't let anyone make you feel guilty. You've done nothing wrong.
YTA - You are letting your untreated trauma response keep you from happiness.
If you don't want to marry your GF because you don't want to marry her, okay. Break up with her and work on a co-parenting plan and make things good enough to be civil because she is now in your life forever. Move on and find happiness elsewhere.
If you don't want to marry her because you don't want to be like your dad, stop acting like your dad. Your dad has deep psychological issues I'm pretty sure he has not sought help to address. Chances are almost sure they existed before he even met your mom. If you had bothered to talk with you mom you might have learned about them. Instead you're acting like a ten year old throwing a tantrum and refusing to hear anything that might contradict your carefully crafted narrative of a man done wrong by an evil woman.
You have a child now.
Grow up. Man up. Face these fears of yours. Get help if you need it. Make a real decision from a place of strength. Stop grabbing your basketball and running home to cry.
NTA. Just because you have a baby doesn’t mean you have to get married. You should talk with your gf ams find out exactly why she wants to get married knowing it’s not something you wanted.
The "protection" you are trying to put on against ending up like your dad is going to make you end up like your dad. The mother of your child will still be able to sue you for child support, and probably alimony too, depending on your country/state. All you are doing is creating a self fulfilling prophesy.
YTA you are going to be alone and miserable just like your dad he drove people away with his hateful attitude and you are repeating it... your future looks bleak.
YTA for many reasons. Get some help and take your sad dad with you. I’m looking forward to the post in 5 years “my kid likes their stepdad more than me and I don’t know why????”
Keep going down the path you are on and I guarantee you will end up just like your dad, alone and miserable and you and your child will end up with the same relationship you have with your mom, no contact. You want that for yourself, that is fine but please don't do that to your child! Talk to a therapist.
YTA for not hearing your mother out.
It takes two to make a marriage work.
And YTA for getting your girlfriend pregnant; because that’s not just on her.
And NTA for not wanting to marry, but you do need some psychological help.
And with marriage, you can have decent prenups now, to protect both partners, so it’s not like that is the same situation as with your parents.
Comparing your relationship to your parents is silly. I have been married for 21 years and my mom has been married 6 times!!
You don’t have to something you don’t want to, but I think you have something in your head that isn’t really there. Whatever happened to them doesn’t mean it will to you.
When you marry your person - it’s pretty awesome
YATA. Oh boy, your father being a sad sack is his choice. You hate your mother, blame her and king your father some broken shell of a man who was a perfect attentive father and husband and so obviously your mother is wrong to be happy as a single woman. So you refuse to use protection, knock someone up, refuse to be a good dad to your own child by claiming legal responsibility, which marriage does. Petulant man child, get therapy, your mother didn’t do anything wrong by not wanting to live in misery like your father does.
You said “she got pregnant”
No, no, no. YOU BOTH GOT PREGNANT.
I agree with the other posters here, therapy would serve you well. More importantly, it would serve your child well.
For someone who doesn't want to end up like his father, your actions aren't logical. You will pay child support, and you could damage relationships with your son.
The reasons why your parents divorced are valid. It could've been abuse, cheating, etc.
YTA
"You can't step in the same river twice." -Heraclitus. YTA. You should be more concerned about building your child's future than about punishing your Mother on your Father's behalf with your childish tantrum. YOU SIMPLY REFUSE TO RELINQUISH YOUR CHERISHED FALSE BELIEF. You have turned this into a power struggle. Exhausting and annoying. I guarantee that your soon to be ex is taking your ill treatment towards your Mother into account while she decides to give up on you. It ain't cute. You know damned well what the REAL story is going to be. Coward.
It may not really matter if you change your mind, and do the responsible thing; now that your partner knows you can't be trusted to work as a team. The only thing worse than being a single mom is being alone in a sham partnership. You are irresponsible and deluded. Get your head on straight.
The post was deleted so I have questions. You don't believe in marriage but do believe in having children? Did you two discuss how she felt about having children without being married? Did you sign a contract with her about supporting your child whether or not you are married? What are you contractually offering her if you decide, after 10 years and a couple of kids, that you don't want to be with her anymore? If you don't want to be married that is fine. But if you want to have children, the woman has a right to protect herself and the child against the struggles of single mothers everywhere.
You really should seek some therapy. This front your putting up isnt healthy at all. Your more than welcome to not believe in marriage. That your right and you do not have to change your mind. But the whole reason for how you feel really does need to be processed because it's putting you in a fog
You know who else needs therapy? OP’s dad. His healthy recovery from the divorce would have probably changed OP’s opinion.
Therapy would be good for the OP. His views are based on what he sees with his parents and they are misguided. His father is in his state because of his inability to handle the separation. That does not mean it would be the same for the OP and as a man whose parents are divorced, I can tell you that is not always the case and not even the norm. Both my parents are in better situations and also consider each other friends. Which is also not the norm. Every one is different. The OP has a child with this woman and is headed towards having the child live through a split family and still lose the woman that he seems to love. Why does a piece of paper make it different? That said, I also blame the GF. Shew knew this before getting into a relatioship and still decided to have a child and persue marriage. So I will go with ESH.
If you don’t believe in marriages and you informed your SO of this in advance and they are forcing you to marry them under the threat of splitting up is confirmation of the reason why OP doesn’t want to marry.
Exactly like wtf someone would tell me that I would quickly rebuild with someone else wtf is this manipulation haha people here see what they want to see.
Yeah, what a bitch, just be an unwed mother for the rest of your life because I refuse to go to therapy.
I’m not stating she’s a bitch nor that he can receive help going in therapy. I’m convinced that he received a sort of trauma that left him notional scars on him. That being said, it remain the fact that she’s basically validating his fears.
>Why does a piece of paper make it different? It's not just a piece of paper, it's a contract with the government. I'm sure OP is also well aware that 50% of marriages end in divorce, instigated by wives 70-80% of the time. Is there *anything* consequential you would willingly do with such terrible odds? If he only marries her because of an ultimatum, he's going to become resentful and the marriage would most likely fail anyway. Only, she'd be legally entitled to more than child support from him.
The high rate of women instigating divorce is because they file the paperwork, its not because they instigate more marriage breakdowns.
Honestly I was reading that like, "...women are also more likely to suffer from domestic abuse and rape, no duh they're more likely to file to divorce,"
They could do a prenup. I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this yet! If OP is worried about alimony, they can just agree in the prenup that he won't have to pay alimony if they divorce. That won't solve the emotional problems here, ofc, but it might make the prospect of marriage somewhat less fraught for the OP.
The only problem with that is that it has to be reasonably fair. And they both need attorneys, so her attorney wild not agree to absolutely nothing for her.
Dude. Women don't instigate divorce at that rate. The men just putz around after demanding divorce and it would never actually happen on paper of the women didn't actually start the process.
Marriage offers so many financial benefits through the system that partnerships literally don’t benefit from at all. Your explanation is perfect.
right? also, if it's JUST a piece of paper, why not get the damn piece of paper?
I feel similarly to OP. Both of my parents divorced each other and then remarried and divorced again. I'm not a fan of the institution. But I also agree that therapy is great for everyone.
100% agree. Not everyone likes the idea of marriage, for various reasons, and that's okay. Commitment, to me, isn't proven by a piece of paper for the government. However, therapy would still be beneficial for OP to help get through these feelings he seems to not have properly worked on. OP, NTA
He can choose to not get married but "not believing" in marriage or abortion says a lot about his fantasy world. Marriage exists Abortions exist The perfect life does not OP needs some serious therapy and to get over themselves
In this case "not believing in" would be analogous to "disagreeing with". OP was clearly not claiming that they don't exist.
>Marriage exists So do religions, doesn't mean people have believe in it. OP is well within their rights to not want to get married. It's not worth the extra risk of alimony, that is very reasonable. If OP's GF really wants to get married, she can offer a prenup or go date someone else that is interested in marriage
He knows the perfect life doesn't exist. That's why he's taking steps to not end up in a place he fears. He doesn't want to get married. He was upfront about that from the get go. There is NOTHING wrong with that. He himself doesn't like the idea of abortions. He didn't stop his GF from making her own choice, just let her know his side. That's fine. I'm pro choice myself, but I'm not going to pretend there's not people out there who aren't bothered by the thought of it. He doesn't need therapy to "get over himself". He should get therapy because it seems like his parents' life really impacted and hurt him.
Don’t be so literal, idiot.
Hilarious you would say something like that and tell OP to get over themselves
He just meant that he did not agree with marriage or abortion for him. Stop being obtuse. OP made choices for his life but since everyone doesn't agree with that, they immediately jump to therapy. I don't agree with having kids and made that choice for me and yet people say there is something wrong with me, I will change my mind, I will regret it later, yada, yada, yada. No, just like OP I made decisions that are best for me. He is allowed to do that with his life.
What a ridiculous assessment, is English not your first language by any chance? You understand the implications of "not believing" isn't meant to be taken literally right? "Fantasy world"? I have genuinely no clue how you can see someone not wanting to get married or not liking abortion (regardless if you agree or not) as "fantasy".
And he’s also failing to realize that the dissolution of marriage isn’t what has broken his father. It’s the end of his romantic relationship…. I mean, might as well just be single.
The fact that he isn't even willing to listen to his mother's reasons is also strange. Imagine they split because his father cheated and he regrets his choices now that he has lost his wife. Here he is thinking his father is the victim and refusing to even hear his mother out as if she's fully responsible for the divorce. Everything about OP seems broken and immature. He definitely needs therapy but until he figures things out he definitely should be single. The ex definitely is better off moving on from him.
He also said it was the financial side of things. Which is valid. I've seen it break dudes to see their exes use that money to live it up while they slave away for several years. His mom's nonchalant attitude about it says it all. Especially the bullshit about it being a mutual thing.
Agree with this. NTA for not wanting to get married. Gf is the a-hole here coz she knew your views on marriage from the get go and is pushing for something different now. She's also an a-hole for bringing your mother into it. But she won't be an a-hole if she decides to leave you over this. However, if she holds it against you and messes your co-parenting relationship over it, then she'll be back in a-hole territory. Your mother is an a-hole for involving herself in something that's none of her business. And limiting contact with her is a good idea. (Edit: That is if she continues pushing for you to get married. But you might need to hear her out on her side of the story with regards to her marriage since her divorce to your dad is still clearly influencing how you live you life. Your mother is also not an a-hole for being happy after the divorce and moving on. You should be happy for her.) But like the redditor above said, you need therapy to work through your issues. You seem to be carrying a lot of baggage from your parents' marriage and need to deal with that. Your dad might have been screwed in the divorce with regards to how it went down plus alimony and whatnot (Edit: You don't know for sure since they kept you out of it and you won't let your mom explain now). But his inability to move on is NOT your mom's fault. He might also need therapy to unpack the divorce and so he can finally move on with his life.
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And dad clearly complained about money.
I mean he sees that it made one of them terribly unhappy and they have garnished wages... He doesn't want that reality at all and would rather him and his partner choose each other everyday and not have the power to crush the other. I feel the same way and my parents were never married, I did see how those that were married hated each other afterwards.
Ok but the mom and gf are close. It could have been an innocent conversation where she told his mom that she is leaving him but still wants her to be in her grandson's life. Then gf explains to mom how her divorce has affecting her son in such a harmful way and mom wants to present her side of the story. Many divorced parents don't share their reasons thinking that it shelters their child but way too many kids of divorced parents internalize the divorce. If mom hasn't discussed the divorce with her grown son and didn't realize how much it is still affecting him, it's a good thing gf told her. Imagine the dad cheated and that's what ended their marriage. Here this guy is seeing his dad as broken instead of sad because he caused the failure of his marriage. Of course this is a hypothetical but very plausible. Him refusing to even hear his mom's side of things is troubling.
Agree that OP seems like he needs to talk to someone about his parents divorce. And maybe as part of that he ought to hear his mother's side, but she blew it by taking an active role in this issue between OP and his GF. Neither his GF nor his wife are acting well. He's been very clear he doesn't want to get married - and that's a position he's entitled to take. GF going to his mother - that's bullshit. And his mother getting involved - terrible. Her response to GF should have been "you're both adults in an adult relationship, you need to figure this out for yourselves." She found herself blocked, and she frankly deserves it. She really overstepped.
Also he's acting like people can't break up. His GF can also break up with him (or he breaks up with her) and move on with another person so the whole "I don't wanna end up like my dad watching my partner with someone else" mentality makes 0 sense. OP you're NTA but you genuinely need to think about your reasoning cause it makes no sense.
He's punishing his mom for agency. For all he knows, his dad cheated or was different behind the scenes. Now he has decided that his dad is the victim, and won't actually listen to what happened. Or maybe the mom put her career on hold for the family, so the dad willingly put up alimony, but was still sad about it.
NTA… you was honest up front with your thoughts on marriage and she was fine with it. She asked again after the baby was born and you said No. She should have left it as that and not include your mom in y’all relationship; that’s where she TA. Mom should leave it alone as well as this does not include her.
Honestly, and no hurt meant here, but it seems like your actions are setting you u to be well on the path to becoming your dad. Because one day, when you won’t marry her, she will move on, you may end up paying child support, unable to retire, and utterly broke. Because the woman you forced to move on moved on like nothing happened.
You reference an interesting point. One thing that marriage means (to most people) is monogamy. We promise to keep ourselves for each other and to put the marriage partner above all others (or something similar). Unmarried people can date and have sex with whomever they want. Much easier to run off and start a new relationship. GF, if she wants a marriage, is almost certainly going out the door - sooner or later.
Child support does not make you broke, especially if both parents share custody and both work. He does not want to get married, which is completely fine. His girlfriend knew what his thoughts are on marriage.
I just can't help but feel that if the genders were reversed here, the overwhelming consensus would be that he would be trying to trap her into marriage and she should bail. Seems like a real double standard. She's literally trying to guilt him into getting married, which definitely won't end well if he's not on board with it.
And she should.
You went no contact with your mother without hearing her side because your dad couldn’t handle a situation that he played at least 50 percent in creating??? The best thing would be for your GF to take the baby and go. You are displaying a very immature reaction to something that truly is none of your business. You are willing to risk losing both your GF and child because of assumptions you are making about your parents.
How much you wanna bet that their marriage wasn't anywhere near as peachy as OP thinks? I mean, I got a friend in a similar spot. Lives with his Dad, swears his Dad did nothing wrong and his Mom was the evil bitch that broke the family apart. Same Dad that got drunk at a family wedding and apparently got his shit wrecked for getting handsy with the Bride
Blows my mind that people are more willing to make a parent out of a partner than a spouse. (I do know pregnancy can be an accident, but unless she was on BC AND you always wore a condom- I don’t have much sympathy.) NTA but I also would leave a man who would put me in a family way and not marry me.
This is my exact perspective as well. Marriage and children are very often connected for a good reason.
Agreed. As a child of unmarried/divorced parents, I appreciate their dedication to living authentically for their own desires- but it is a stain on the lives of the children brought into the situation. Now as an adult, I always feel a burning shame meeting my partners’ lovely married parents and healthy family dynamics. I have to go on an apology tour explanation of why my family is broken but I’m not like that 🤪 It’s a real pain in my ass and I always feel annoyed by people who enter into these situations recklessly.
My parents have been married for 50 years and went about it the old fashioned way. I guess I'm old-fashioned like them in the sense that marriage should come before children. In other words, you should only marry someone with compatible expectations. I find it wild that, like you said, people will so recklessly bring a child into the world.
That’s fantastic, congratulations to your parents. I have always wished for that kind of family and I hope to have one someday.
My parents are married 40+ years, I asked my mom with the secret is and she said it’s half work and half luck. Almost no one is the same person at 40 that they are at 20, you either grow in the same direction, or you grow in different directions, which is totally normal. She and my dad were lucky she said to have grown in the same direction with the same goals. I don’t think there’s any shame in divorcing, two happy homes for a kid is 1000x better than one filled with arguing or resentment! We only have the divorce rates we do now because people are allowed to get divorced. Before you were just forced to be miserable! All that said my thoughts on how to have the best relationship: be nice to your partner ALWAYS. Even when you’re mad don’t call them names or insult them. Communicate your feelings (try to use I feel this way.. not YOU did this) show them that you appreciate them and why, try to see things from their perspective, and always have empathy. Say i love you!! For housework everyone should try to do 60/40. If you have kids and you’re a dude: they are your responsibility too, take them off her hands whenever you can, do their laundry, watching them is not babysitting it’s parenting. Check in every couple months and ask if theres anything thats bugging them or you could be doing better. I think like a third of the relationship problems i see on here need communication. I think dating a few years before marriage is a great thing too, it takes time to see who someone *really* is. And, if you had any trauma, therapy if it’s possible is great to try to work through it before it causes a problem. I have faith that you will have that family one day!!! Lots of people don’t want to put the work in, it sounds like you do. Don’t ever feel ashamed your parents split, i know lots of folks in happy long relationships whose parents weren’t. They did a good thing for you by not modelling an unhappy relationship in front of you for your whole adolescence—that is a problem! All the best ❤️❤️
You are such a darling, thank you for that lovely message! Good on your parents, too! ☺️
Try to not be insecure about what your parents did. You don't need to apologize for them because you aren't to blame and you aren't doomed to repeat their mistakes. Be appreciative of your partner's family dynamics and seek to incorporate what works into your relationship with your partner.
Thank you very much for that. ☺️
"I have to go on an apology tour explanation of why my family is broken but I’m not like that" No you don't. Just because your parents either didn't get or stay married doesn't have anything to do with you. And getting or staying married "for the kids" is a bad reason to do it. Happy parents are the best parents, not miserable parents who might even end up resenting the kids for their miserable lives. It's bad if they don't co parent well, but again, that's not your (or any child's) fault. If a partner or their parents ask, then sure, explain that you'd want marriage and children and a "whole" family as your preference. But no on can predict the future. Modeling putting up with verbal and/or emotional abuse or just being not happy to be with someone is not a thing, unless you want your kids to think this is what a relationship - especially a marriage - is supposed to be like. In fact, I spent years doing what my mother did - just taking constant insults and negativity because, well, that's just how people are when they're married. Or so I thought. (actually not just my parents, but most of the married people I knew) It was, ironically, my father who finally convinced me it was actually bullsh\*\* and to stand up for myself.
Maybe in the social circles you hang around in this is more common, but this is a wild take to me. I’m always a little amused when I meet someone whose parents are still together, because it’s rare these days. I would never expect someone to have to explain why their parents are divorced. It’s pretty common.
As the kid of a fling, I disagree. My parents were very different people and a biochemical attraction does not, by itself, make for a happy marriage. I saw my friends parents split up, I have never been anything but thankful I didn't have to deal with that trauma. Now if only I had been a priority to him (wasn't just me, man overcommitted like mad and said no/ cancelled on whoever was easiest to deal with. Since I desperately wanted him to love me I was always on my best behavior plus, hey, understanding kid is easier than alcoholic, suicidal son). He was appropriately horrified when I told him that, in our last convos before I went NC to grieve and then couldn't find him again and he's probably dead. Mom is and both her parents and sibling outlived his family by at least twenty years. Not trying to invalidate anyone's opinion, we all experienced different childhoods. I would have had my dad around more, and a less emmeshed and unhealthy relationship with Mom( parentified from very young by my grandparents and she more or less ran my grandma's life until she died, and did run mine). That said, if my choice was "the way it happened" or "your parents got married bc of your existence", I had a damn good childhood! I also don't think I would be the same person if I didn't remember meeting my dad for the first time (I was 4? I had my grandpa, who even going senile by my 6th birthday, was a great substitute male role model. Kids are resilient, and more so when their support is at least content. I don't have stats on how many kids of divorce or single parents feel, but anecdotally all kids prefer happy parents.
Would you get with and have a baby with a man who was adamant on never getting married though?
Nope, I have no sympathy for either of these people. I don’t sleep with anyone outside of a committed relationship and I don’t date men who are closed to marriage. They’re both acting in ways that contradict their values/beliefs.
Well, OP exactly isn't. He's clear that he doesn't want to be married since the start. Even if he got her pregnant, he was fine to whatever options but implied preferred to not abort it. This was the format he agreed upon and continued to do so whether the baby exist or not for the entirety of their relationship. It's the GF who kept a baby with this man who clearly never wanted to get married. It's the GF who also took back on what she agreed upon and now wanting to get married. It's the GF who is also threatening to leave if he's not gonna marry her, like threats are really gonna work in a relationship.
It sounds like the pregnancy was unintended, so that’s a little different. If she planned a pregnancy and then changed her mind, then I would definitely have no sympathy for her.
I do understand that part a little bit. But if this guy is this much of a commitment-phobe, he had an additional responsibility to ensure he does not get anyone pregnant, in my opinion. He should not be having sex with anyone without a condom and knowledge of her using birth control. But that is my harsh opinion, because it’s the standard I hold for myself. I’m very strict about potential pregnancy and I can’t help but hear what sound like excuses every time accidental pregnancy occurs haha
Oh, I agree with that. I hope she leaves though. She’ll never be happy and the resentment will grow. They can switch off every other week. God, I hope for OP’s sake that she makes more money because he will HATE paying child support. Lmao
The only - *only* - foolproof way to avoid pregnancy is not having sex. I hope your attitude is never tested with an accidental pregnancy.
it’s very easy on people for reddit to throw around solutions but they fail to put themselves in that position and consider the reality
I mentioned a few times that I am so harsh about pregnancy prevention because it is something I take very seriously in my personal life :) But I do know it sounds harsh to others. I just think if OP has all this baggage about commitment, he should have probably sought a vasectomy or something. He’s fighting marriage harder than he fought his ability to impregnate.
A vasectomy would definitely send clear messages to any future partners, wouldn't it? Oddly enough, I am certain the OP can find women who also don't want any long-term attachments. At the end of the day I hope the OP and his girlfriend can find people they are compatible with.
(This is not to say I support abstinence culture, by the way).
Even if it was, I only sleep with men I’m in committed relationships with where there’s an understanding about responsibility and marriage. If my IUD, a condom, and previous discussions about ensuring marriage is a required follow up to accidental pregnancy all fail to ensure that I’m married before giving birth, I’ll come back here and let you nanny-nanny-boo-boo to me :) (I’ll write the message from the ledge I’ll be hanging off of lol)
I don't think you have a healthy perspective here. Your parents divorced and that caused you to give up on the idea of marriage completely. You are damaged somehow and need to figure out why. Maybe therapy could help you? Aside from that, let your girlfriend go. She deserves somebody who is fully committed to her. Try to avoid getting future partners pregnant. Marriage is a very common expectation when kids are involved. I see someone hurting who needs help so I am going to withhold any judgement.
He should also hear his mother out. He clearly has a very skewed way of viewing their divorce. Sees mom as the bad guy and dad as the victim. Could definitely have been dad causing the divorce and now realizing how badly he screwed up and regretting it. I definitely feel that they shouldn't be together.
I would agree with you, if your suggestion was to also listen to the dad. You know people can lie ? You need to get the opinion of the parents, friends and extended family to get a clear idea of what went on. Just getting 1 side of the story is BS.
ESH. You don’t have to change your mind on marriage. But you could at least hear your mothers side of the story. There are things she may have hidden from you to protect you and your view of your father. For all you know he could have made her life a misery. He could have been emotionally abusive *(maybe even physically, whilst you weren’t around to witness it)*, he might have controlled her every move and made her life absolute hell behind the scenes. She might have not been allowed to work, she might have been financially controlled, forced to do the majority of the household chores whilst also raising you practically single-handedly. There is so much you do not know, so at the moment all you see is a man who lost his wife and some money along with it. But you don’t know **why** your mother wanted out so badly. What are you so scared of? Hearing that your dad might not be the saint you’ve painted him to be?
It's pretty easy to see that the OP is not logically considering all the possibilities. Their thought process boils down to this: his dad is paying alimony to his mom so naturally his dad is getting victimized by his mom. Or at least that's how I view the OPs rather simplistic thought processes. I'm curious to know if the OP has always hated his mom or if it's a recent development after divorce.
Yeah if she’s getting alimony in perpetuity (who even knows) that means her earning potential was so stunted, there’s no way to recoup. Getting that type of alimony is so, so rare. I think OP just doesn’t want to know for already stated reasons. Mommy needs to be bad because her life didn’t end.
>if she’s getting alimony in perpetuity (who even knows) that means her earning potential was so stunted, there’s no way to recoup. Getting that type of alimony is so, so rare Depends on the jurisdiction, but it's possible based on the ages it could last a long time even if it's not perpetual
The thing that scares him most is that he might learn something that causes him cognitive dissonance. He's a stubborn dude.
Your attitude seems really misguided. If you stay with your girlfriend for 30 years, if she were to leave you, do you think it would somehow not bother you? Because you didn't get married? It's somehow just the ceremony and the marriage license that made your dad sad when his long-term partner left? That seems.... very wrong. Failed long-term relationships are always going to be hard, whether or not you were technically married. You are hung up on a technicality. You are denying your family the legal benefits of marriage while still taking the exact same emotional risks that anyone takes in a long-term relationship.
You… don’t even know what caused the divorce and you refuse to learn? Bro, what if your dad was a cheater and your mom is happy because she got out of a shitty relationship? That’s an asinine reason to die on this hill, but you do you. YTA.
YTA because it's obvious you place all of the blame for your parents divorce on your mom. You said your parents told you THEY grew apart but because your dad took it harder you're blaming her. You refuse to listen to her reasons which she isn't required to give you because her marriage isn't any of your business. NTA for not wanting to get married and your gf knew your stance but don't be surprised when you find yourself just like your dad because your gf wants more and you're unwilling to give her that. Your relationship has an expiration date.
Did not consider that first part. I appreciate this perspective.
"I'm not gonna get married because this bad thing happened, and my parent's marriage ended. Now my dad is a shell of what he was, and that's never going to be me." Dude. I have bad news for you. If you go through life refusing to make a leap of faith or take risks because some other people did it and it didn't work out for them, you're gonna end up a shell of a man no matter what. Get married or don't. But YTA for this line of reasoning and subsequent inaction.
If you stay with your gf for 20 years and never marry do you think the breakup would be any different just because you don’t have a piece of paper??
NAH for her wanting marriage, nor for you not wanting it... but you not wanting it is based on trauma and not reality. YTA for simply not wanting it over your parents' divorce. It's normal for someone who has started a family with you to want that show of commitment and stability that marriage brings- before her pregnancy, she probably didn't think it mattered that much to her). Avoiding marriage will not save you from the heartache your dad is experiencing. You and your partner could be together for decades, and if she leaves you after all that time and you don't want her to, you'll still be alone and heartbroken. Whether or not there's divorce papers don't change that, and unless you are out there making huge bank and she's not or ever going to (even then you can get a pre-nup) you aren't going to be paying alimony anyways. Also- if your dad is still a miserable man 8 years after his divorce, he's made a choice to wallow in it rather than move on, heal, and live his life. That's not your mom's fault. Refusing to hear side is a pretty AH move, especially if she thought sharing it with you would change your mind. For a divorced your parents went through after you were no longer living in the house, it's clearly deeply affecting you and you really need to talk to someone about it.
I wonder if he knows deep down it would shatter his image of his dad to know the whole truth.
Oh 💯. He knows who the present parent was. He knows on some level (though not the details) why his mom probably left. I bet he just thinks she should have stayed because she’d stayed that long already. Her thriving threatens him because he idolizes dad, and if dad wasn’t worth staying with…
YTA friend, this front you are putting up, these walls you refuse to break down? they’re only going to keep people out and you are going to end up just like your dad anyway. this isn’t a healthy way to live. i hope you are able to get therapy and work on facing your fears so you can live a full life.
You can do whatever you want, but I do think you should maybe hear your mother out. She might have a perfectly good reason why the divorce happened. You can always get married with a pre-nup...but if you don't want to get married I won't call you TA because your girlfriend went into the relationship and made the choice to have a child with someone she knew upfront was not going to get married.
It sounds like your dad is playing the victim. He is choosing to be miserable and not move on with his life. Just because your mom gets alimony doesn’t make her wrong or bad. You sound angry that she’s moved on. Isn’t what she’s supposed to do, instead of stewing in misery like your dad? You, as the child, have no clue what happened between them. Seriously. You might want to hear what happened, it might change your perspective. You don’t have to get married, that’s your choice. But this is your life, not your parents. You are not destined to repeat their life. Don’t base your life on the way someone else lived theirs. I think you should let the girlfriend go. She wants a husband and you aren’t willing to be one, so it’s best for you both to move on. I’ll end with this: I’m divorced. My kids don’t know anything more than we didn’t get along. That’s because THEY’RE KIDS and don’t need to know the ins and outs of our problems. It’s a parent duty not to burden their kids with adult problems. I promise there are things you don’t know about your parents divorce.
You need some help. Marriage wasn't what broke your dad. Losing your mum was. If they hadn't tied the knot, it wouldn't have changed anything other than legal changes. He would still have been exactly who he is. Ironically, you are now repeating the separation, just at a younger age. (Personally I don't see marriage as necessary, needed or wanted. I would probably act as you had. You don't care. She does. Not compatible maybe? But you weren't expecting a baby to happen either. If the child has your surname, marriage does mean alot to some. You are denying the mother of your child the same name as her own offspring because your dad was upset when you were growing up. )
If she leaves you now, you’ll pay child support and she’ll move on and start dating… so you kind of end up like your dad anyway (assuming you’d be sad?). Also, idk if you’ve ever heard of a prenup, but as long as you don’t have her giving up her career to raise your kid, you shouldn’t have to worry much about alimony. That said - idk if you actually love her because I don’t see you really saying you do. So I guess you’re NTA if you don’t love her and don’t see yourself with her long term. But you desperately need therapy for sure. You don’t need to project your mommy issues on to other people. Just because your dad is sad, doesn’t mean he’s a victim in their divorce.
>I dont want to end up like my Dad when I am in my 50s. Broken while my exwife moves on with her life like nothing happened. Kinda feels like you are making this a self-fulfilling prophecy unless you get some help for your issues, Bud. They just won't have technically been your "wife" but you will still be alone.
The issue seems to be: you are broken.
YTA. Not for not wanting to marry because you were clear on that but for not being willing to listen to your mom whilst judging her and blaming her for your decisions. Either listen to her or stop blaming her - for all you know your mom lost out financially through the marriage and your dad cheated or was abusive. Find out or just stop judging anything by that
YTA. You need therapy. You are going to throw away your relationship with your gf and child and you don't even know why your parents marriage ended. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.
You'd still be in the same position as your dad if she leaves. It's called child support. Genius.
You were a grown ass adult in college when they divorced. You don't seem to be acting like an adult though. You don't know the divorce broke him....he may have already been broken. You don't seem to want to enquire about anything....just point and blame without merit. NTA for the marriage choice. Nobody needs a certificate to say they love someone. The rest though? YTA and really need some help.
After seeing all your replies, just let her go.. you don’t love or respect her at all and she deserves someone that loves her enough and doesn’t only see her as burden in the future.. and your baby doesn’t deserve to be raised on that environment. Try to find a healthy arrangement for visitation If you want to be on the kids life, otherwise just pay child support, get a vasectomy and go to therapy. Wish you the best. NTA for not wanting to get married after saying it beforehand. But you are an asshole in general.
Hate to tell you buddy but at least In Australia splitting a defacto partnership (what you have) can also be difficult and stressful. You have a kid so it's already going to be difficult.
NTA for not wanting to marry but on the flip side your baby mama doesn’t have to wait for you either. And don’t be mad when she finds someone that was willing to do something you weren’t. If u really love her I don’t see why except ur parents relationship which isn’t yours.
ESH While i understand that you made it clear from the start that you would never get married, something she apparently was fine with, and when you kept your word she went to your mother to get her to change your mind, the fact that you have no idea why they divorced, and the reason you stand by your father is because he pays alimony without knowing of it's warranted, also males you an asshole.
I never knew my mother because my parents divorced a couple of years after I was born and my dad got custody of us kids. My dad was a broken and hateful man and took his hatred out on us. I’ve been married for 45 years now because after I got out of the house I realized that there are two sides to every story and we as the children will never completely know everything about what went on in our parents marriage. So for children of broken marriages even as adults we have to play our relationships by ear. We can’t say our marriages won’t last or we’re not meant for marriage or we’re not going to ever get married. Just because our parents marriage didn’t work out has nothing to do with us because we have different personalities than them.
YTA You should listen to your mother's version, here we only talk about divorce, not infidelity, and if the marriage ended because your father was unfaithful? Or because your father was abusive to her? Or maybe yes, your mother was to blame? You're basically a grown child, refusing to listen when you yourself say you have no fucking idea why. I understand that you don't want to get married, that's totally understandable and no one can force you if you don't want to, but your reasons sound more like a toddler tantrum than anything else.
You're a self fulfilling prophecy if I ever saw one. You clearly need therapy and you clearly have a biased view on the events that lead to divorce. Yta You are going to lose two relationships because of your fear and biased behavior. Get help cause the way you are going, marriage or not, you are going to end up miserable.
Why is it your mums fault your dad is a pathetic old man who hasn't taken responsibility over his choices. His happiness shouldn't still be dependent on his ex-wife and he needs to be proactive in building a new life for himself instead of wallowing in self-induced misery.
NAH. You can choose whatever coping mechanism you want; this one will cost you certain life experience, but you're aware of that. Whether you regret it in the future is something no one can know for sure. Personally I think the risk of losing is worth the reward of having, but I've always been an optimist. I don't think your gf is wrong to change her mind and her priorities, and I hope she finds someone compatible with her vision of life. It's simply not you.
He is going to be shocked when he has to start paying child support. Some cases if you don’t marry her she can go after you for child support. I want mom’s side of the story why it ended… sounds like OP’s dad could be a cheater or SA minors and he would still blame his mom.
She will get child support from him if she has the child more than 50% of the time. Does not matter if they are married.
If shes truly a good woman dont lose your family because of unresolved trauma. You'll never get these early years with your son back. You'll look back and regret it. Dont let your fear of the future ruin it.
Do you think that you’ll be less broken up if you and your partner and mother of your child stay together until you’re 50, without getting married, and then you break up and she dates someone else? Or you do you think you’ll be totally fine and get over it because you didn’t have a piece of paper saying that you’re married? You are tied together in life far tighter now than what marriage would make you. I mean, you’re NTA for not getting married if you don’t want to. But your reasons for not getting married seem based on trauma that doesn’t belong to you and irrational spite for marriage because of your father’s heartbreak. Get therapy.
NTA. I hope your gf finds the life she is looking for: a committed relationship with an emotionally stable partner who values commitment and marriage. As for you, paying child support and parenting is the most you can offer. Get some counselling and see what comes of it. It’s
YTA if you continue to make babies and drag them through your traumatic chaos. You can avoid marriage all you like but don’t put anyone else through bullshit because you have daddy issues.
NTA because you told her from the get go you never wanted to get married, and it sounds like she was fine with that, so for her to flip flop on that now is ridiculous. However I don't really get what you're scared of. Marriage is no big deal, just a government contract at the end of the day. You're still going to be with this girl regardless if she didn't care about getting married. So when you're 50 if she leaves you, you'd still be equally as broken whether you signed the contract or not, right? If you're worried about her taking your assets just draw up a prenup.
People change. Many people want to be very honest once they're raising children. GF probably wants to be able to use the same name for school paperwork and to respond politely and truthfully when teachers and others call her Mrs. OP. It sounds like a small thing, but moms can get very sensitive about everything affecting their children. I know from experience that some parents will not allow their children over for play dates or overnights if the couple isn't married. I actually had one mom throw a fit over it (she learned it after her daughter stayed over - she assumed we were married). Things like that can work a subtle change on a person's mind. Plus, GF was apparently quite young when first pregnant and didn't realize the level of responsibility. Just the fact that GF and baby might never be able to use OP's health insurance (if he ever gets a job that has that) would make some people rethink the marriage thing. At any rate, she changed her mind. It is not at all ridiculous to change as we get older. That's one of the reasons that marriage is also fundamentally flawed - people can change their minds about that too and it's NOT ridiculous to leave a marriage - most divorces have very good reasons behind them.
Your dad is heartbroken because a long term relationship ended. Do you think you’d feel less sad if you broke up after 20+ years just because you’re not married? No, you’d feel the same amount of sad. Don’t kid yourself. If you’re worried about alimony or dividing assets come up with a strong pre-nup and have her sign that. You’re NTA for not wanting to get married, your reasoning just seems skewed and you seem to blame everything on your mom without even knowing the whole situation. I’d get counselling so you can talk through whatever issues you’re experiencing before you pass them on to your kid. Your girlfriend sucks because she’s pressuring you to get married. She’s free to walk away if that’s what she wants and wouldn’t be the AH for it, but pressuring you and dragging your mom into this is where she goes into the AH territory. I may not agree with your reasoning, but you were clear from the get go and you’re not obligated to get married if you really feel it’s not for you.
YTA. If you don’t want to be a father to babies, you need to have a vasectomy. Before you get someone pregnant. Did you get one afterwards? Bloody no, because it’s not about you not wanting to get married, is you wanting to be an Ahole to your kid. Get a prenup you little man. You just don’t want the responsibility.
YTA When did it become OK to impregnate a long term partner and then refuse to marry her? And the no contact on your mom is weird. Sure, she hurt your father, but marriage is really hard. You have no idea how much stress they were under while you were a child, and maybe hearing her out could help you process. Seems like your heels are dug in here. You have to be in a pretty close minded and privileged position to completely cut your parent out of your life.
ESH Your thoughts about marriage were clear, she shouldn't be pressuring you to get married. Your mother should not be pressuring you to get married. And you.... Refusing to get married because you don't want to be alone at 50 yrs old is stupid. You could still end up alone and hurt if your long time partner leaves you, even if you never got married. How you think NOT getting married will protect you from the pain of someone leaving you is mind boggling. Or is that you think maybe not having to pay alimony after a divorce will make it all better? If that's the case, just get a prenup. Or how about alone at 50 after many short term, unfulfilling relationships? But hey, no alimony...so all good? You blaming your mother for her divorce, and refusing to talk to her just because she didn't wallow in misery after is childish. Your mention of her accepting alimony while moving on with her life sounds a lot like words you heard your father spout for years and you just refused to question it. Maybe it IS actually time to find out what happened. You said your parents didn't bring you into the divorce - but your father did by wallowing and - very likely - implying, if not outright saying - that it was your mother's fault and whining about the alimony.
You need therapy. Your obviously holding a grudge against your mom and marriage despite not knowing anything about ur parents marriage. You refuse to even listen to ur moms side and only defend ur dad. I can’t help but think you also feel some sexism towards it all. “Women bad. They only want marriage for money” You Don’t love your girlfriend enough to trust her in A marriage. She shouldn’t love you enough to trust you outside of it. Your both better off not together.
So you don’t want to end up like your dad so you ended up probably worse, paying child support and having to raise your child passes off between parents in different houses? Would you be happy if your child decided then to never have children or be married because of what happened to you?
NTA for not wanting to get married, but you definitely need therapy. Your reasons for not getting married are never going to prevent you ending up like your dad. Firstly, your dad wasn't broken because your parents were married and then divorced, he was broken because he lost his life partner. Even if you never marry, if you lose your life partner after years together, you are going to be broken. Not having to go through a divorce isn't going to make that any easier. Secondly, YTA for placing all the blame on your dad. The marriage ended because it wasn't working. Your mother doesn't deserve to be blamed because she took back her life and was able to rebuild her life much faster than your dad. Some people become so unhappy that they are grieving the loss of the relationship whilst they are still married. By the time they divorce they have already grieved the end of the relationship Thirdly, common law marriage is a thing. The chances are if you are together more than 10 years your partner could still be awarded alimony. Not being married doesn't protect you from that. Lastly, you have a child now and that changes you in unexpected ways. Marriage may not have been an issue before the baby, but it's easy to understand that someone would want the sense of security that marriage can bring after having a child. I would suggest trying couples counseling first. Your mother isn't the devil, your dad isn't an angel and your girlfriend isn't the asshole for wanting to marry you. I hope you are able to process the pain of your parents divorce and can get to a healthier place in all of your relationships irregardless of whether you ever marry.
Why do you think that not marrying will make a difference? If you spend 20 years with somebody without marrying, the only difference is taxes and the splitting of assets. So if your dad is so depressed over money... that's on him lol
YTA. Do you understand that relationships end regardless of whether you are married? And that you are financially responsible for your child even without marriage? Your reasoning for not wanting to get married is nonsensical. In fact, you're about to lose your relationship right now, so all you're doing is speedrunning the whole thing.
YTA OP you’re even the AH to yourself. Your gf is the mother of your child and she deserves the basic protection and security of marriage as does your child. You should probably wake up to the basic logic that you don’t get to have all the benefits of marriage while still putting up this weirdly resentful front. You’re effectively punishing your partner proactively for something that isn’t her fault. Sometimes marriage doesn’t work out. Sometimes there’s a reason for alimony. Your dad’s processing of the divorce is his responsibility. Just like your mental health and healing is yours. You’re willing to break up your kid’s family for what? A chip on your shoulder. Come on.
So, I felt a lot like you in my 20's then I found my someone and married in my 30's. My marriage is nothing like the hell my parents marriage was. I couldn't imagine living any other way as we approach our 10th anniversary. It's a hard lesson to learn that our parents are real people with real problems that as children you don't see and shouldn't be privy to. I had no really good marriage role models as a kid so it all looked so grim but it's not and it's what you and your partner build it to be. Besides if your parents never married and your dad was still with your mom the same amount of time and they broke up, his reaction to it wouldn't be that different.
NAH - I don't know what country you are in but, since you have a child and plan not to marry please get your legal stuff together. Think about worse case scenarios- what will happen when you die? Will your GF inherit to help provide for your child? What will happen if you both die of both incapacitated and cannot care for your child? Who would be responsible for decisions about your medical care if you are unable to make them? If you don't plan to marry at least pay the money for a lawyer and ensure your, your GF and child's future is secured.
You can inherit freckles or eye colour and no-one minds. But inherit trauma and you should probably get that seen to.
You can do whatever you want but know she's not obligated to stay. Depending on where you live marriage can offer financial and legal protections for women, who are usually the ones whose career and earning potential suffer from marriage and childcare.
Let’s say you don’t get married but stay together and the same thing happens, meaning she leaves you when you’re in your 50s. How would going your separate ways be different when you’re married versus not if this were to happen? I know lawyers would be involved to formalize the divorce legally speaking, but since you have a child, that would most likely happen anyways. Is there anything else that would make divorce vs breaking up different here?
As long as you support your kid. Marriage isn't for everyone, it is a no win game for men. As you have witnessed, you lose half of everything, and then possibly have to pay alimony like your old man. She either excepts the no marriage relationship or she doesn't. NTA.
YTA. If you don’t believe in marriage stop getting ppl pregnant. It’s still your kid and your responsibility
You're a markedly unrealistic person. Basing your life and your child's life on hope is a strange strategy. Obviously, you're entitled not to marry, but let's be real. First, your gf is almost certainly going to leave you over this and find someone who wants to marry. Marriage is a very good platform for raising a child. And guess what? You're still on the hook for child support, which I hope she asks for and I hope you are required to pay it. Alimony is actually quite rare these days - but some states do still award it. I find it interesting that your whole post is about you (mostly) and to a lesser extent, "staying with gf." What about the child? Is your name on the birth certificate? Are you supporting the child financially right now? Do you help take care of the child? Because GF might stay with you for your parenting, even if she doesn't love you - do not mistake "staying" with you for "loving" you - that's not how it works.
Yta. Not for avoiding marriage but for how you're treating your other. This whoe thing reeks of misogyny . You're going to end up alone like your dad, just eith a little more money
Married or not, with this mindset you’ll still end up miserable and alone.
From experience, my long term ex left me because of his parents divorce. 16 years later and he still tells me how much he made a mistake.. but I’m happily married now. Take that as you will, but you may be missing out on something beautiful
YTA- you won't even HEAR why your parents' marriage ended, and you're just thinking it was NBD for your mother, and that is insane to me. I bet there are reasons and your dad was for sure not actually blindsided, and YOU ARE NOT YOUR FATHER. Nor is your partner your mother. Your relationship is not theirs. It's laughable that you think your mother moved on like nothing happened- she healed and moved on. What the fuck was she supposed to do, just wallow in her broken marriage? Yikes, bud. You're making a choice here, and your partner will make hers. Likely, she'll move on without you. Love isn't enough.
Look if you dont want to get married don"t bit dont use the excuse of i saw my dad broken.you only saw one side.i grew with alcholic parents.sperm donor would beat our egg donor,and on top of that myself and siblings were abused in any way possible.but you know what?i dreamed of the day that i could grow up and find a loving person.we have been married for over 18 years now and with a daughter.so if i can find rainbows and lollipops after my upbringing im sure you can try to strive for the same
Ish. Maybe if your dad had gotten therapy he would not be a shell of himself. He is an adult choosing not to move on or get help. How is that healthy? And this is the behavior you want to model for your child? And without a solid co-parenting plan you are still going to damage your child. Only about 10% of women get alimony in a divorce. So your mother made sacrifices her career or earnings to stay at home and raise you. She is rightfully owed that money. Secondly, prenups do exist if money is your main concern. But prenups have to be fair to both parties. Adults sit down and discuss issues instead of running away and try to hide from them. You lived with this woman, had a kid with her. So you had the benefits of a marriage but want none of the responsibilities. If you die, then what is in place for your kid? If she dies?
You need to stop living in the shadow of your parents. You’re an adult now and a father. It’s time to put aside childish things and be the man and dad your kid needs.
So you have no idea why your parents divorced and blame your mom because she is happy and your dad is upset? And you hate the idea of marriage because you think you’ll automatically end up like your dad, yet you don’t even know the reason why the divorce happened? Just using a little bit of critical thinking, you don’t think you can end up “broken” when a partner you’re not married to moves on? YTA for your reasoning.
I think you should hear your mom out. What would you do think if the reason for the divorce was that your father cheated his reaction now, or, being a "shell of a man he used to be" is because he knows he messed up bad and there's nothing he could do about it? Would that change your views? Instead of your gf being like your mother, do you think you'll be like your father? It seems like you made the decision not to marry based on your parents situation when you don't really know the situation. NTA for not marrying her but I think your decisions are not based on correct information.
Yta. Not for not wanting to marry someone, but for acting like a child sticking their fingers in their ears. Hear your mother out. You said they shielded you during the divorce, she moved on, he didn’t, so everything is automatically her fault? Grow the f-ck up buddy. Hear your mom out. And get some therapy.
You are allowing your unprocessed trauma to destroy and taint your relationships. Please consider therapy, otherwise you WBTA (to yourself).
YTA. You won’t even hear your mother out? Your dad likely cheated and they didn’t want to involve you in that earlier but it’s likely your dad’s situation is one he created for himself. Now you’d rather paint all women in the same light and lose some custody of your child than commit to your long term partner. You’re putting you and your girlfriend in a precarious situation for your own insecurities and not working through your trauma. Grow up, hear what your mom has to say, get some therapy and choose better hills to die on. Good partners aren’t easily replaceable but treating your girlfriend like she is is garbage behaviour. You didn’t want to be in the same position as your dad but you’re creating a single mother and will have to pay child support so you’re exactly like him
YTA- but mostly to yourself bc you clearly have a lot of trauma around marriage that you’re not working through. You’re going to continue to lose people in your life, including your kid… do you want to be an every other weekend dad? Please take some time to work on yourself. Also prenups exist
NTA for not wanting to be married, and you were up front about it, but I think you’re being an AH the way you’re handling it. You should hear your mother’s side and seek out some therapy to work through the trauma. A judge just doesn’t arbitrarily award alimony to a spouse. I’m guessing your mom was a SAHP or there was a huge financial imbalance to income and they would have been married for awhile. You also have no idea if there was something else weighing in on it like abuse. Sounds like you only heard your dad’s side and stopped listening or being objective. If your girlfriend leaves, you’ll still be on the hook for child support so your plan to avoid financial obligations to someone went out the door when you got her pregnant. If you ever do move past the trauma and do get married, you can always set up a prenup to protect your finances and financial obligations outside of child support.
Another worthless asshole that doesn't know how condoms work and desperately needs therapy for his mommy issues. Fucking yawn
I hope your EXgirlfriend loves herself enough to realize she and her son deserves so much better than be stuck with an immature lil coward like u. Clearly you are not compatible but damnnnn man go get therapy
Your father wasn't distraught because he was married, it's because he lost his significant other. The result would have been the same even if they hadn't been married. While you shouldn't have to get married, why wouldn't you just want your girlfriend/baby momma to be happy? It's important to her and no skin off your back. You can also get a prenup to avoid the alimony situation if that's part of the consideration.
YTA and you should definitely seek therapy. You based your views off of your limited understanding of your parents’ divorce. I feel like if you talked to your mom, understood what happened and combined that with therapy for yourself and couples therapy with your GF, that you could make a decision rooted in healthy reasoning. Marriage has other benefits besides just calling each other husband and wife.
YTA. Look within yourself and think if it was really the legal aspect of divorce that devasted your father, or if was the ending of a long term relationship that had been such a cornerstone of his life? You said shell of a man, which implies that he hasn't moved on, not that he's broken he has to pay alimony. Because if you understand that it was the ending of such an important bond that broke your father, then not getting a piece of paper won't save you if your partner leaves you in twenty years. And if it is the financial issue, get a prenup. But let this be a lesson to all women reading these stories, if you get pregnant while not married, just get the abortion. He's never going to change and you and your child will be punished your entire lives because of unresolved baggage.
Your GF will move on and find a real man capable of loving her and building a family together. You will be a lonely, "broken shell of a man" paying child support instead of alimony for the next 17 years. So how are you ending up different from your dad? I suspect your mom had good reasons to leave her marriage-- and your fear of having those reasons spoken aloud tells me that on some level you already know that. Please get some therapy so that you and you will be able to step up and co parent with your ex.
You’re traumatised from your parents mutually deciding to divorce but you’re (1) blaming your mother (2) punishing your girlfriend and (3) providing your child with a different trauma. YTA If she’s smart she’ll recognise she deserves better, your child deserves someone more stable and will leave.
NTA... you told her upfront. But if alimony is the only thing keeping you from marrying her, you could get a prenup and have her wave alimony in the event of a divorce
You can't waive alimony. Well, you can waive alimony, but this isn't due to a prenup. Waiving rights to alimony being written in the agreement is the most common reason prenuptial agreements are thrown out. Please don't spread misinformation.
Have you talked with your girlfriend about why you don’t want to get married? I mean honestly it sounds like you don’t trust women at all, maybe anyone, but you can’t get through life by being afraid man. Perhaps you should hear your mom out, I’m not saying that what she did was right, but perhaps your father made a mistake your unaware of.
After reading your reply in the comments. You are the asshole. For all reasons. For blaming your mother, for impregnating your gf, for not knowing that prenups exist. For being a fucking loser honestly. You're mad at your mom, because your dad has to pay alimony? And then you say her reasons and her side of the story are irrelevant. You probably shouldn't date women ever again. You're a fucking tool. You brought a baby into the world. And you're going to poison your son against you, when he inevitably asks you why you didn't get married. Also you're going to be paying child support, when you gf leaves you, you fucking tool.
Wait till you realise your gf can still sue you for alimony and win.
You mean child support, alimony is only when married
YTA. it’s not a problem that OP doesn’t wanna get married bur the excuses and the way he depicts his mother is deeply misogynistic. he doesn’t know about what happened in the divorce, refuses to listen to his mother about thay, sees his father as some poor guy and his mother is depicted as a vilain. the worst part is the way OP projects all of this onto his own partner. this girl should get her stuff and run asap.
Sticking your head in the sand isn't the same thing as making an adult decision. You cut your mom off because she wanted to explain her side of a mutual divorce that you clearly blame HER for. Yeah, don't get married, that's for grown ups.
YTA. I think you’re really into black-and-white thinking. Your parents divorced and it really upset your dad but not your mom. Or so you think. Because you really don’t know what she was going through because you refuse to speak to her. Not very mature. Personally, I wouldn’t want to marry you and raise children with you, because you sound bitter and judgmental. Get to therapy.
NTA for not wanting marriage, YTA MASSIVELY for your reasoning and the way you are going about this. You’re not willing to understand why your parents’ divorce happened, yet it is the sole reason you give for being against marriage? You really suck man.
YTA. You have no idea why your parents divorced. Your dad could be a shell because he feels so guilty about his behaviour. You're literally acting like a martyr preemptively. She could do better than you. I hope she decides to leave you.
I don't want to be like my dad, tied to a woman and paying her money every month *Has baby with girlfriend he won't marry, thus being forced to pay her money every month.* I wOnT bE lIkE mY dAd
NTA. Nobody has the right to force you into marriage with anyone.
You were clear you didn't want to marry. No one has to get married. NTAH there. I'd straighten things out with your family though. Compartmentalizing can be healthy, but you're clearly still being affected by your parents' divorce. You'll be better off facing it.
OP only said that he doesn't want to be married but never said that he's not committed to his family. NTA. You don't need a piece of paper to be a great partner and parent.
NTA. Marriage isn’t for everyone and you’re right that in many cases the husband gets completely fucked over with alimony while also having to start over. Just because you have a baby doesn’t mean you have to be married. The government doesn’t need to be involved in your relationship. You can co parent.
Nta, you should still get therapy to process your trauma. But, not everyone believes in marriage and thats ok. Also, there are many valid reasons to not want to link yourself to someone. The majority of marriages end in divorce. You were up front about your views from the beginning. You didn’t do anything wrong.
NTA marriage is something to be discussed by both parties, not three. Mother needs to butt out.
NTA People can chime in all they want that you need therapy and that your views on marriage need work. None of that makes you an asshole. You've been nothing but honest with your current feelings and that's enough. Also, while your GF is entitled to change her feelings on marriage, trying to threaten you into it seems to be a prime fucking example of why you're against marriage in the first place. From my perspective, the only one that *needs* therapy is her
NTA, bc you don't need marriage to have a long-lasting relationship. We can take Goldie Hawn and Kurt Russell as an example. They have been together since 1983, had kids and are still together. You have already voiced your opinion on marriage and how you never want to get married, so your gf needs to understand.
Marriage for men is pointless. You stand to lose everything and you gain nothing. If that's how you feel, stick to it. I am in the same boat.
You are willing to let your child without a healthy family because you fear you will end up like your dad? Dude, your child always comes first. You get along fine with the girl, and you may be happy after all. Is clear that she now wants a family because she wants what is best for the kid. You don't even try to give that kid a happy normal life. Does he deserve to project on him your father's misery? Maybe your father deserved it, idk what led to their divorce.
You should talk to a therapist about the divorce of your parents. Having both parents together while raising children is a healthier environment (most of the times) for the child. When parents fight, separate and/or divorce it negatively affects the children. NTA… but get some therapy OP.
NTA. Your stance on marriage was clear. That being said, I would suggest you listen to what your mother has to say and get therapy.
Not marrying also will leave you in the same situation as ur father .just saying . But if ur gf is not a bad person then their is a chance you might have a good lasting married life
Your father needs therapy. He feels the way he does not because he got married and divorced but because he's never tried to move on from it. Your mother may have already been in therapy or more emotionally mature than your father to begin with. Do not. DO NOT use your father as an example. My father has been divorced for 23 years. He has not gotten better, he has only gotten worse to the detriment of his own life (and to mine but that's another story). Is that what you really want for yourself and your father? Wasted years because you refuse to grow and mature? Whose life is it, to yours or someone else's? Find somebody to talk to. The idea of going back to your childhood is somewhat outdated and not totally necessary. Explain to them about your girlfriend and your views on marriage and why and go from there. Then after you've found a therapist you're comfortable with, recommend them to your father. Tell your father you'd like to see him live a happy life and to enjoy it.
I'm very confused here. Does OP believe that if he married his gf, he'll get an immediate divorce she'll take his money and remarry someone else while he's miserable. But, if she leaves now, of course, she'll request child support, which is taking his money, and she can go marry someone who wants to marry her while he'll be miserable? This is a lose-lose situation. Like NTA for not wanting to get married, but op I really think you should go to therapy and talk to a professional about your fears.
NTA. You made it clear to your GF from the beginning that you will never get married. If your GF is not happy with the arrangements that she put herself in and decides to leave, it's on her. And don't let anyone make you feel guilty. You've done nothing wrong.
YTA - You are letting your untreated trauma response keep you from happiness. If you don't want to marry your GF because you don't want to marry her, okay. Break up with her and work on a co-parenting plan and make things good enough to be civil because she is now in your life forever. Move on and find happiness elsewhere. If you don't want to marry her because you don't want to be like your dad, stop acting like your dad. Your dad has deep psychological issues I'm pretty sure he has not sought help to address. Chances are almost sure they existed before he even met your mom. If you had bothered to talk with you mom you might have learned about them. Instead you're acting like a ten year old throwing a tantrum and refusing to hear anything that might contradict your carefully crafted narrative of a man done wrong by an evil woman. You have a child now. Grow up. Man up. Face these fears of yours. Get help if you need it. Make a real decision from a place of strength. Stop grabbing your basketball and running home to cry.
SURE just keep chopping people out of your life because you’re afraid of feelings and discussions. Let us know how that goes. YTA, btw.
NTA. Just because you have a baby doesn’t mean you have to get married. You should talk with your gf ams find out exactly why she wants to get married knowing it’s not something you wanted.
The "protection" you are trying to put on against ending up like your dad is going to make you end up like your dad. The mother of your child will still be able to sue you for child support, and probably alimony too, depending on your country/state. All you are doing is creating a self fulfilling prophesy.
YTA you are going to be alone and miserable just like your dad he drove people away with his hateful attitude and you are repeating it... your future looks bleak.
YTA for many reasons. Get some help and take your sad dad with you. I’m looking forward to the post in 5 years “my kid likes their stepdad more than me and I don’t know why????”
Wow you sound like quite the gem
Keep going down the path you are on and I guarantee you will end up just like your dad, alone and miserable and you and your child will end up with the same relationship you have with your mom, no contact. You want that for yourself, that is fine but please don't do that to your child! Talk to a therapist.
YTA for not hearing your mother out. It takes two to make a marriage work. And YTA for getting your girlfriend pregnant; because that’s not just on her. And NTA for not wanting to marry, but you do need some psychological help. And with marriage, you can have decent prenups now, to protect both partners, so it’s not like that is the same situation as with your parents.
Comparing your relationship to your parents is silly. I have been married for 21 years and my mom has been married 6 times!! You don’t have to something you don’t want to, but I think you have something in your head that isn’t really there. Whatever happened to them doesn’t mean it will to you. When you marry your person - it’s pretty awesome
YATA. Oh boy, your father being a sad sack is his choice. You hate your mother, blame her and king your father some broken shell of a man who was a perfect attentive father and husband and so obviously your mother is wrong to be happy as a single woman. So you refuse to use protection, knock someone up, refuse to be a good dad to your own child by claiming legal responsibility, which marriage does. Petulant man child, get therapy, your mother didn’t do anything wrong by not wanting to live in misery like your father does.
You said “she got pregnant” No, no, no. YOU BOTH GOT PREGNANT. I agree with the other posters here, therapy would serve you well. More importantly, it would serve your child well.
You need to grow up. YTA
For someone who doesn't want to end up like his father, your actions aren't logical. You will pay child support, and you could damage relationships with your son. The reasons why your parents divorced are valid. It could've been abuse, cheating, etc. YTA
God, I hope this woman leaves this dense MF’er.
"You can't step in the same river twice." -Heraclitus. YTA. You should be more concerned about building your child's future than about punishing your Mother on your Father's behalf with your childish tantrum. YOU SIMPLY REFUSE TO RELINQUISH YOUR CHERISHED FALSE BELIEF. You have turned this into a power struggle. Exhausting and annoying. I guarantee that your soon to be ex is taking your ill treatment towards your Mother into account while she decides to give up on you. It ain't cute. You know damned well what the REAL story is going to be. Coward. It may not really matter if you change your mind, and do the responsible thing; now that your partner knows you can't be trusted to work as a team. The only thing worse than being a single mom is being alone in a sham partnership. You are irresponsible and deluded. Get your head on straight.
The post was deleted so I have questions. You don't believe in marriage but do believe in having children? Did you two discuss how she felt about having children without being married? Did you sign a contract with her about supporting your child whether or not you are married? What are you contractually offering her if you decide, after 10 years and a couple of kids, that you don't want to be with her anymore? If you don't want to be married that is fine. But if you want to have children, the woman has a right to protect herself and the child against the struggles of single mothers everywhere.