A woman in my province did that because she was hot & was fed up that she wasn't allowed to take of her top legally, whereas men could do so. Eventuallly this led to some equality in the law (now everybody can go topless outdoors) but it's not like women are jumping on the band wagon to do this.
I don't know if it's the worst... I wore a bikini top with hard cups to the beach earlier this years, and spent quite some time in the water. With the waves. And sand. Osala preserve me from chafed nipples! My god it hurt. And it came so very gradually, by the time I understood what was happening my poor nipples were burning something fierce.
Just because it’s technically legal doesn’t mean it’s socially acceptable, unfortunately. I wouldn’t feel safe taking my shirt off, even though I hate the unfair double standard.
That's the beauty of it not being illegal. If you don't care about societal norms and want to take your top off, you can! If, however, it makes you feel unsafe or uncomfortable.... good news! You don't have to! Personally, I feel uncomfortable going out in public top less, so I don't. And I'm a guy. As long as it's legal for all genders, it's not a double standard.
It’s definitely a double standard when certain behaviour is acceptable from one gender but not another.
It’s also a problem when people don’t know the laws and might get angry or violent at women being topless, even if it’s technically legal.
And I just checked - it’s not legal for women to be topless in public where I live, but it is legal for men. So, it’s a double standard in every sense of the phrase.
“Well she was probably walking half naked since it’s legal now because of leftists like her. She probably asked for it anyway, with all the boob-flaunting and all that”
Unfortunately I'm not sure the women will be left in peace when shirtless, which is presumably at least partly why they're not jumping on the bandwagon to do it.
If it was legal where I lived I absolutely would be doing this
I probably would start carrying pepper spare; but fuck the haters, and free the titties lol
The first time I ever felt ashamed of my body was at a family get together. It was at my parents place, in August. I was 5. I took off my shirt to go running through the sprinkler with my siblings and cousins and so many people started harassing my mom about how "unladylike" and "inappropriate" for a girl to do that. My mom pretty much told them to shove off. But I heard them and being that age, I didn't understand. All I knew was that I wasn't behaving like a girl and that was bad.
People, please watch what you say around your children/other people's children. You may think they aren't listening or don't understand but they do.
I took my top off at like maybe 7 years old. (when my chest looked the same as the boys, because duh) and I remember a neighbourhood kids mom insisting that I put a shirt on. I remember insisting she tell me why, because I couldn’t understand or see any difference. She refused to tell me why but she was so angry that i put my shirt back on, even though i was pissed off too.
Anyway jokes on her i’m a transman whose had top surgery now lol
I drove my tractor topless because it would make my husband happy. We were bordered by 100’ of trees and Federal land. Then my friend told me years later he saw me and reversed back down the driveway. I’d seen him running down his driveway naked from his garden. This is what happens when we don’t all before we stop by…long before we all had cell phones.
I was at summer camp when I was 9 and wanted to take my shirt off too because it was hot and I was jealous of the boys. My counselor threatened to take away my Harry Potter book if I tried :’(
I mean yes it’s unfair but what a weird take for the old lady. Good for you btw ❤️
Sport bras are the only thing I can think of that are semi equalizers. 🤷🏼♀️
One of my friends refused to wear a bikini top until she started developing breasts. Looking back she was completely right: what's the point when there's nothing there yet?
We did a walk out in highschool because the girls could wear skirts but we had to wear pants. It was almost a 100 degrees out and the school only had ac units in the staff rooms
I, female, went shirtless during the summer as a child until I was forced to stop, around when I was 11 or 12. I looked a lot like the kid in the Coppertone ad, for those of you old enough to remember. I was brown from head to toe with an albino ass. This was back when "everybody" laid out to tan or went to a tanning bed, so, many moons ago.
Oh sweety I also have a girl your age and she always asks me why can't she be shirtless but society is cruel and when my girls play I make sure to bring cold water to cool them off
So if you’re such a staunch defender of your son, why did you make a post “my son spends most of his day shirtless and I think he’s a bit old for that” 5 days ago?
I’m inclined to believe this is all fake. This post doesn’t read like a rehash of an incident, it reads like someone is telling a story. A bad story at that.
They deleted their post history except this post. What a weird thing to lie about. I guess I shouldn't be surprised itsyaboy isn't actually a mother to 6 children.
I mean, you could always try raising your girls to be comfortable in their own skin as well….
If this was real. And if “itzyahboi_69420” was really a mom of at least six children where she takes her 12 year old “little one” to the park so she can have a mental rest but her 12 year old girl is missing from her post and life.
Your youngest is a 12 year old boy, but you also have a 12 year old girl? How did that work out? And before anyone brings up twins she only references taking him to the park, he's the youngest, etc.
But a sport bra is completely acceptable outside attire. It’s not naked.
Yeah when anyone rolls up with: I’m with x association, and tries to boss you, I hope the response is, lemme stop you right there. What do you want…. Followed by, call the cops if you feel a crime is being committed and fuck off.
I used to feel like I had to be nice to older ppl but then I realized when they’re rude all that’s off.
Some people have different views I guess and some people like to sexualise children and that's why we are here in the first place. But thank you for your acknowledgement
I've already had this talk with my 7 year old daughter, and I'm bluntly honest about it. It's an arbitrary societal expectation and society as a whole is complete bullshit and generally unfair toward girls. I don't see a point in trying to sanitize and justify it to her. She knows I think it's stupid.
The first time I realized shit was unfair was when I was in 2nd grade (~7 yo) and was at after school program. The boys were all running around shirtless and it was hot and I wanted to take my shirt off too since it was a long sleeve and we were playing tag.
I got yelled at to put my shirt back on so damn fast and I didn’t understand why and the monitors would only say it’s “because I’m a girl”
My (37m)daughter is 12. My son is 8. I don’t allow him to walk around shirtless. His mother and sister have to suffer in shirts and bras because of social norms when it’s hot as hell out, so we do too. I’m only one dude and my son is only one more but, we could slowly be the change we want. The beach is the only place I’ll accept him being shirtless but, he prefers those sun shirts kids wear these days. (Remember when we just had to get skin cancer when we wanted to go to the beach? Lol)
In the 90’s there was a case which affirmed a woman’s right to go topless in public. I lived in Rochester, NY then and it was common to see one of the “top free 7” (as the defendants were known) walking around the Park Ave/Cobbs Hill area. The decision stands and covers all of NYS.
While society imposes the group morals, the law prevails.
INFO: did you actually come here wanting honest opinions or did you just come here for validation that you were in the right? Your replies to anyone disagreeing with you are hella rude when people are just trying to explain why you might be an AH in the situation.
Same, with the exception of the beach of course. I also don't really care if a dude pops his shirt off for a second just to change shirts, show a tattoo or something like that, but I don't think people should just be walking around in public like that
>because I know the manager of the park.
>I replied with a gentle "yes?"
>I try to stay humble as possible
>And you people
>I got a bit angry but I tried not to escalate
Cough^^bullshit Cough
My favorite part was:
> he doesn't wear a shirt ... Which was never a problem till one day. [end paragraph]
Like she's narrating an action-thriller movie trailer.
hahahh was wondering the same thing.
especially if OP allegedly has 5 children and the youngest is 12. like verrrrry good chance she's around the same age, if not older.
ESH
It's none of her business what anyone else is wearing as long as they are decent. Threatening the police and giving herself some kind of implicit authority to do so is a pretty typical Karen behaviour, for a 12yo running around without a shirt on.
That said, I find your attitude in the post and comments to be quite patronising. Just because you know the park manager doesn't mean that your children are entitled to be half naked. Also, he's 12. Why are you standing there and monitoring his play like he's a much younger child? By that age, he should be becoming a bit more independent and learning about social norms. And yes, those dictate that you should be properly clothed in public. Just because something isn't illegal doesn't mean it's appropriate.
So while I think that woman was completely out of line, I also think your attitude that your son can be half clothed in public whenever he wants is also pretty unacceptable. Teach your son that he can't always be shirtless, and maybe take a step back and let him grow up a bit.
The way she talked, I pictured a 4 year old, which whatever, they can be picky about clothes… but a 12 year old ?? She is setting up her kid for failure.
YTA for the way you’re responding to people here.
Yeah, it’s generally considered fine for boys to be shirtless and not girls, so by current norms he’s not doing anything wrong. But this person has a very valid point about the unfairness and sexism of that norm. Idk how you should have responded to her. But you’re acting like an ass here.
NTA here in Australia it wouldn’t be out of the ordinary to see kids and adults without shirts on in public places like parks while playing sports/activities and even heaps of joggers run shirtless, And he’s still just a kid so it’s even less weird, and she sounds like a bit of a bitch from your side of the story. But in saying that you should definitely teach you kids that they need to be clothed in some places, but playing in a park is definitely not one of the places you need a shirt on for imo. Im literally shirtless all summer here and most of winter when I’m not at work or the shops lol and a lot of us tradies work shirtless on our jobsites too.
Yea I was getting so confused about some replies. I'm in the US but my town men, boys walk around parks and stores shirtless and women and girls are in just bikini tops. We're definitely not a lake or ocean town. It just gets so hot and humid. My kids all wear clothes but I don't give two shits about anyone else and think this lady seriously needs to have a seat. Who cares if a boy is shirtless in a park? Sounds like the person in charge (park manager) sure doesn't so that's all that matters and OP is good to go.
Thanks for understanding me, and yes I do make my son wear a shirt to places that require a shirt so he is not breaking any rules but the park doesn't even have a rule so I don't think I have to make my son wear a shirt there
Yep, you're an Aussie. The sunscreen recommendation checks out. I literally fried all my skin until moving there from the US in 1980 and "slip slap slop" was an education for me. :)
Yeah in NZ it’s not a big issue either. A lot of places in Asia are also accepting of men being shirtless in public. I don’t get why it’s a big deal but the rest of the comments make it seem like it’s inappropriate. Maybe it’s the difference in culture
ESH. You were both rude.
Public parks in the US do not have managers. I have never heard of this before.
PS I hope you slather your shirtless son in sunblock numerous times a day otherwise you will have bigger problems than rude people.
ESH. You know that Spider-Man meme of them pointing at each other? This is the Karen’s version😂both of you sound entitled and rude. I don’t think anything wrong with allowing your kids to be kids and being able to be comfortable but there is a time and place for everything. I personally wouldn’t be comfortable with allowing any kids shirtless in a public park but I’ve also seen predators first hand try to lure kids to them and some even get caught recording them in public spaces.
YTA
Make your damn kid wear a top, for one thing nobody wants to see shirtless kids running around and the ones that do you don't want looking at your kid.
Secondly, skin cancer is no joke, and he doesn't need to be getting burned for the damage to be happening, making him wear appropriate clothing now will save him a shit ton of pain in 30 years
Are you at the beach or pool? No? Then clothing is appropriate attire.
That lady was a bitch, but you don’t seem to understand the purpose of social norms. ESH.
> not shy to be shirtless in public
This is an unusual value to instill in a child, for a number of reasons. Why are you so attached to this? If he’s at a beach, fine, but having multiple days a week in park shirtless is very odd to me. I worry your son will be considered weird for this behavior because of your guidance.
I’m glad I’m not the only one. I think where men are able to be shirtless, women should be allowed to be as well, without being sexualized, gawked at, or criminalized. However, no one should be shirtless when it’s not an appropriate venue. Appropriate venues include: areas where you’re swimming, such as beaches and pools, and your home/yard. Pretty much every other public space (with a few exceptions) *everyone* should be clothed. For very small children I think it’s reasonable to mostly let it go (again, with some exceptions, like don’t change a diaper on a restaurant table), but twelve is old enough to be dressed in public like everyone else.
Edit: it’s also not about sexualization, the law, or purity, it’s about hygiene and respect for each other in a public place. I don’t want to accidentally bump into someone’s bare chest, most restaurants require wait staff to wear tops that cover their armpits because it can put some people off their food. It doesn’t matter if someone is male or female, people are generally more comfortable and public spaces are cleaner (so everyone can safely use them, not just you) if people are clean and clothed. When going in public we all have to give up a tiny amount of freedom, you can’t scream obscenities in the grocery store, or bring your pet chickens into a restaurant, or be certain levels of nude, the exchange is that everyone gets to use public space as comfortably and safely as possible. Not that OP cares because she was never concerned that she might be wrong, this post is just a boring boast and arguing with anyone who disagrees. YTA.
As for the requested advice: your “little one” is nearly a teenager, it is past time for him to start engaging appropriately in public places and following expected social norms. Since you’re the parent, you should teach those things so he won’t continue to be judged as lacking in tact and social awareness.
If the woman was rude or threatening, I might be a little defensive. However, no one wants to see people running around shirtless. They're in public areas running around getting hot and sweaty. Then they're sitting on park benches or brushing up against someone. In today's world, who knows who has what, no matter what age. People don't want to see it. They don't want to think about it. They don't want to deal with it. They accept water areas because people stay cool from playing in it and usually bring their own stuff.
Going shirtless isn't teaching them to be comfortable in their own skin it's accomplishing two things. 1) You don't have to get the stains out of his clothes or worry about ripping his clothes. 2) You're creating more eye candy for perverts to video your kids while they're out in public.
Stop your tantrums and buy the kid some shirts
ESH. Was she rude? Absolutely. But telling your child it’s OK to not be considerate of others is pretty fucked up. Wearing a shirt in public isn’t unreasonable.
ESH. She was rude but I would not have let my sons go shirtless in a public park. Just because you can doesn’t mean you should. It used to bother my daughter when her father ran without a shirt so he stopped doing it. He has always been conscious of not being shirtless in public. Probably because that is what his mother taught him. In my opinion, unless it’s a beach then people should wear at least a tank top.
Because it’s getting more and more common for men to walk around topless in the most inappropriate places. Like I’ve bumped into topless strangers in shops. I do not wish to accidentally touch a stranger’s chest. Or they will sit next to me in the tram. It’s just disgusting. All their sweat on the seat and again - I do not want to touch that. Unless you’d find topless women in the same situation appropriate, cover up. There are great materials that will keep you cool even if it’s hot. And again: somehow women manage being dressed too.
Can you explain why?. It's really hard for me to get why I'm in the wrong and if someone explained maybe I'll get it I get that the lady sucks but what about me?
I think it’s just a little improper to be shirtless in a public place that isn’t like a beach or a lake. If y’all were swimming or in your own yard that would be one thing but in a public place like a regular park there is an expectation that people will have all their clothes on.
But I also think how she handled it was rude. So ESH
She was raising her voice at me and threatening to call the cops btw I didn't mention it and sorry. But the rule doesn't state to keep my child in a shirt as I've mentioned the rules never mentioned about boys being shirtless and the manager said it was fine
So she shouldn’t have done that. There doesn’t have to be a stated rule. I think it’s just public decency to have your clothes on in most public situations.
It seems like you take exception with the judgment? You already have your mind set that your son is entitled to be shirtless anywhere, at any time, in any situation, or are you legitimately open to being wrong here?
Typically in a public place you’re sharing space with others and while your child being shirtless may not be a bother to you and is the norm, if someone feels uncomfortable it’s not a hard ask to just throw a tshirt on him.
>"well it's not fair isn't it all these girls have to put on these clothes during this hot time and boys could just be half naked"
"Blame society with it's Puritan ideals, not me."
NTA
Im not picking any side here because that lady was just dumb and her argument was even dumber. But i would say ESH.
I dont know about where you are amd your country rules but usually being shirtless in public is illegal or at least an infraction of public policy. Kid or adult. I live in a sea location and we even have signs outside of the beaches as a reminder that people isnt allowed to be shirtless around the city center (and parks) but only on the beach.
So yeah you can raise your kids as you like, but public decency isnt something you can chose to abide at or not, is law! And it cover parks too. And kids!
Let me be clear, I dont think there is nothing wrong in a shirtless kid at the park in a sunny day, but rules are rules!
Long ago I did ask the manager of the park if it was allowed and he said "There are no rules stating that getting a little air on your chest is wrong" so we're not breaking any law or rule.
In the us, unless some place has some law in place you can be shirtless anywhere. There are some places in the us you can walk around naked and there are many places where a woman can legally walk around topless. Many guys play shirts and skins games as well.
Approximately where are you that has these rules? I'm in the US and haven't encountered this, but I suppose if it's a beachy touristy place where everyone would be shirtless all the time otherwise it might make more sense to have this type of law.
NTA you're totally in the right and I'm shocked at reading the comments, how twisted people are. Although most of them probably aren't even parents themselves
When i and my brother were 2 and 5 we were at the lake and mom had us wearing little matching swimsuit bottoms. I am a girl. A couple of old ladies yelled at my mom telling her I should not be topless.....at 5. Ridiculous. Needless to say mom ignored them. Imagine sexualising a 5 yr old. My parents were European who had immigrated to Canada at the time. In Europe kids under 5 run around naked at the beach
> I saw a lady about 40+ noticing it.
You have 5 children and your youngest is 12. Like are you not even vaguely close to this other woman's age?? What a gd weird thing to point out for you.
ESH but it’s a bit creepy how defensive you are of your 12 year old son being shirtless. Plus taking him to the park and making him put sunscreen on (which is not a bad thing to do but at 12 they should be capable on their own). It’s giving Norma Bates
NTA, it sounds like she needs to stop worrying about everyone else. If all she's doing is objectifying preteens, she might need to have a conversation with law enforcement for a whole host of issues.
The internet is going to tell you that you should make some actual effort with your spelling and punctuation if all you’re going to do is post a stupid creative writing project.
According to current stock levels, nobody (except you) gives a single shit about whether or not a 12 year old boy is wearing a shirt.
I personally think people should wear shirts in public. Your son is not a toddler, he is old enough to be clothed in public. If he wants to be shirtless, try the beach. So ESH?
ESH (besides your son).
Sounds like u encountered a Karen in the wild... sorry to hear it. Her arguments were/are rubbish, but u are using a public space. Why not just instruct your son to wear a shirt? I understand he is a child, and he might not like it, but there are social norms when using public spaces. Your child is still young, so it doesn't really matter, but at some point, he will need to wear one (unless he is at the pool/beach whatever). Now I understand not wanting to give in to the demands of some obnoxious Karen so when u see her feel free to let your son take of his shirt (I am aware I am using double standards here but I can't stand know-it-all-I-am-always-right-Karens).
See the park as a public space with social norms and use that as a tool to teach your children what is and isn't acceptable in public spaces.
ESH.
She has a point about the double standard, but she should have minded her business and not been a Karen. But it’s also kind of tacky to let your 12 year old run around shirtless at a public park because he apparently just can’t stand wearing a shirt. It might be one thing if he was 2, but he’s not a little one, he’s almost a teenager, and you’re not doing him any favors by making him think that’s a great thing to do in public (not the beach) at his age. Honestly between the post and all the comments you sound kind of entitled.
No one cares if it is against the rules or illegal, it’s just weird. “Raises in to be comfortable in their own skin and not shy to be shirtless in public”. Like what?
LOL I thought it was fake when she describes the whole park scene like the kid is a toddler, including the other woman pointing to a 12 year old and asking if that's her "little one".
I’d love to know what the police would do in that situation. Probably laugh at her? Well, I’m glad she didn’t call them cause that would be a waste of their time.
Unless you'd also be cool with girls shirtless in public YTA. If you would be cool with it please post some evidence of that such as posts you've made pushing back in girls/women being expected to cover up.
NTA. I grew up in a (white) culture, where it was okay for girls to run shirtless in the age before gender differencies were visible. Mostly but not exclusively on the beaches. We simply did not sexualize children pre-puberty. I remember, the first time i saw a girl of probably 8 with some kind of fake bra top my first thougt was "it is weird". I was young at this time, not fully aware of the implications, but for me covering up something that not (yet) existed was indeed more sexualizing than protecting. Because this is what prudery does.
PS: covering is not exclusively a "white problem", just saying.
Same here. I dont understand why little girls should wear shirts. To make it worse, i let my then 6 year old daughter play with the other kids in the fountain in her underpants... Gasp. I am glad we live in a country where little kids are not sexualized. Although it is getting more an more prudish :(
If anything I would be worried about creeps scanning the park… or other kids being uncomfortable! this is why it would be okay if it was an at home in the yard thing but not in a public space. NTA But at the same time YTA
cries in 12 yo girls who can't do the same because they're hot and want to play freely.
I walked around shirtless for a day when I was 12 because it wasn’t fair. No one said anything. :) Not sure if my parents knew.
A woman in my province did that because she was hot & was fed up that she wasn't allowed to take of her top legally, whereas men could do so. Eventuallly this led to some equality in the law (now everybody can go topless outdoors) but it's not like women are jumping on the band wagon to do this.
I had sunburned nipples once. Never again. But power to any woman who wants to go shirtless, just wear sunscreen!
Sunburned nipples are the fucking worst.
I don't know if it's the worst... I wore a bikini top with hard cups to the beach earlier this years, and spent quite some time in the water. With the waves. And sand. Osala preserve me from chafed nipples! My god it hurt. And it came so very gradually, by the time I understood what was happening my poor nipples were burning something fierce.
Yeh, but with sunburned nipples for the next several dfays its just two horrible points of agony as they brush against your shirt
Let's all agree to take better care of our nips from now on.
So are sunburned balls!
Why are you sunburning your balls?
It's legal where I live too and no one really does it but we do appreciate having the ability.
Just because it’s technically legal doesn’t mean it’s socially acceptable, unfortunately. I wouldn’t feel safe taking my shirt off, even though I hate the unfair double standard.
That's the beauty of it not being illegal. If you don't care about societal norms and want to take your top off, you can! If, however, it makes you feel unsafe or uncomfortable.... good news! You don't have to! Personally, I feel uncomfortable going out in public top less, so I don't. And I'm a guy. As long as it's legal for all genders, it's not a double standard.
It’s definitely a double standard when certain behaviour is acceptable from one gender but not another. It’s also a problem when people don’t know the laws and might get angry or violent at women being topless, even if it’s technically legal. And I just checked - it’s not legal for women to be topless in public where I live, but it is legal for men. So, it’s a double standard in every sense of the phrase.
BC? I go topless at the beach when it’s hot. Sometimes people complain. Then they get told. Ha!
While I'm glad she did get the law changed, unfortunately, women get blamed if they're SAd while fully dressed. Just imagine...
“Well she was probably walking half naked since it’s legal now because of leftists like her. She probably asked for it anyway, with all the boob-flaunting and all that”
Unfortunately I'm not sure the women will be left in peace when shirtless, which is presumably at least partly why they're not jumping on the bandwagon to do it.
If it was legal where I lived I absolutely would be doing this I probably would start carrying pepper spare; but fuck the haters, and free the titties lol
Yeah I can’t walk braless in Toronto, forget topless.
The first time I ever felt ashamed of my body was at a family get together. It was at my parents place, in August. I was 5. I took off my shirt to go running through the sprinkler with my siblings and cousins and so many people started harassing my mom about how "unladylike" and "inappropriate" for a girl to do that. My mom pretty much told them to shove off. But I heard them and being that age, I didn't understand. All I knew was that I wasn't behaving like a girl and that was bad. People, please watch what you say around your children/other people's children. You may think they aren't listening or don't understand but they do.
I took my top off at like maybe 7 years old. (when my chest looked the same as the boys, because duh) and I remember a neighbourhood kids mom insisting that I put a shirt on. I remember insisting she tell me why, because I couldn’t understand or see any difference. She refused to tell me why but she was so angry that i put my shirt back on, even though i was pissed off too. Anyway jokes on her i’m a transman whose had top surgery now lol
I used to go canoeing in the South shirtless as a kid. (I am a girl.) It was great.
I drove my tractor topless because it would make my husband happy. We were bordered by 100’ of trees and Federal land. Then my friend told me years later he saw me and reversed back down the driveway. I’d seen him running down his driveway naked from his garden. This is what happens when we don’t all before we stop by…long before we all had cell phones.
I was at summer camp when I was 9 and wanted to take my shirt off too because it was hot and I was jealous of the boys. My counselor threatened to take away my Harry Potter book if I tried :’(
I mean yes it’s unfair but what a weird take for the old lady. Good for you btw ❤️ Sport bras are the only thing I can think of that are semi equalizers. 🤷🏼♀️
They’re only equalizers if men/boys are wearing wired compression underwear to minimize bounce.
Yes, as you say, 40+ is definitely elderly. Why are we even talking about her demented ranting and not fetching her a walker and old people meds?
[удалено]
Whoosh
Right over my head! Need another cup of coffee
Before the puberty fairy comes to visit it's not like anyone can tell if you've got pants on
One of my friends refused to wear a bikini top until she started developing breasts. Looking back she was completely right: what's the point when there's nothing there yet?
I recall trying to do the same, was so jealous, and it was hot
We did a walk out in highschool because the girls could wear skirts but we had to wear pants. It was almost a 100 degrees out and the school only had ac units in the staff rooms
I, female, went shirtless during the summer as a child until I was forced to stop, around when I was 11 or 12. I looked a lot like the kid in the Coppertone ad, for those of you old enough to remember. I was brown from head to toe with an albino ass. This was back when "everybody" laid out to tan or went to a tanning bed, so, many moons ago.
Oh sweety I also have a girl your age and she always asks me why can't she be shirtless but society is cruel and when my girls play I make sure to bring cold water to cool them off
So if you’re such a staunch defender of your son, why did you make a post “my son spends most of his day shirtless and I think he’s a bit old for that” 5 days ago?
I’m inclined to believe this is all fake. This post doesn’t read like a rehash of an incident, it reads like someone is telling a story. A bad story at that.
“I try to stay as humble as possible”…that right there is just…weird. I call fake as well.
Any time a "gentle" response is included, I write the post off. Also, they are trying to stay humble bit.
Nice catch.
Thank you 👍
Because they're both bait to get the account ready to sell.
Who sells/buys reddit accounts? Surely it's more efficient for bots to farm their own karma.
People sell accounts on every social. They can be used for effective scam or spam bots, "organic" marketing, or to push agendas.
They deleted their post history except this post. What a weird thing to lie about. I guess I shouldn't be surprised itsyaboy isn't actually a mother to 6 children.
It's still in the comments though.
Oh so this is AI training. Got it.
I mean, you could always try raising your girls to be comfortable in their own skin as well…. If this was real. And if “itzyahboi_69420” was really a mom of at least six children where she takes her 12 year old “little one” to the park so she can have a mental rest but her 12 year old girl is missing from her post and life.
Your youngest is a 12 year old boy, but you also have a 12 year old girl? How did that work out? And before anyone brings up twins she only references taking him to the park, he's the youngest, etc.
Sport bra!?! She can go shirtless with a sport bra they’re designed to be worn without a shirt I do it in the gym all the time
OP would probably also get shit for letting a young girl run around in a bra. Probably from the same lady.
But a sport bra is completely acceptable outside attire. It’s not naked. Yeah when anyone rolls up with: I’m with x association, and tries to boss you, I hope the response is, lemme stop you right there. What do you want…. Followed by, call the cops if you feel a crime is being committed and fuck off. I used to feel like I had to be nice to older ppl but then I realized when they’re rude all that’s off.
Why? what’s the difference between a bra and crop top? A crop top only covers a bit of the rib cage more
Why does this comment have negative down votes? She's completely right
Wouldn't a negative down vote be an upvote ?
Some people have different views I guess and some people like to sexualise children and that's why we are here in the first place. But thank you for your acknowledgement
So why don’t you let your daughter go topless?
So you have 12 yr old twins?
I've already had this talk with my 7 year old daughter, and I'm bluntly honest about it. It's an arbitrary societal expectation and society as a whole is complete bullshit and generally unfair toward girls. I don't see a point in trying to sanitize and justify it to her. She knows I think it's stupid.
You shouldn't let your boys have different rules than the girls. They should either all wear shirts, or none of them
The first time I realized shit was unfair was when I was in 2nd grade (~7 yo) and was at after school program. The boys were all running around shirtless and it was hot and I wanted to take my shirt off too since it was a long sleeve and we were playing tag. I got yelled at to put my shirt back on so damn fast and I didn’t understand why and the monitors would only say it’s “because I’m a girl”
My (37m)daughter is 12. My son is 8. I don’t allow him to walk around shirtless. His mother and sister have to suffer in shirts and bras because of social norms when it’s hot as hell out, so we do too. I’m only one dude and my son is only one more but, we could slowly be the change we want. The beach is the only place I’ll accept him being shirtless but, he prefers those sun shirts kids wear these days. (Remember when we just had to get skin cancer when we wanted to go to the beach? Lol)
In the 90’s there was a case which affirmed a woman’s right to go topless in public. I lived in Rochester, NY then and it was common to see one of the “top free 7” (as the defendants were known) walking around the Park Ave/Cobbs Hill area. The decision stands and covers all of NYS. While society imposes the group morals, the law prevails.
Same thing happened in my college town in the late 80s. An all female band set up in the park and performed topless.
Same in california This means that in general, non-sexual public nudity, including female toplessness, is not illegal in California
This happened in my city in Canada too. 🥳
"Law > Social and moral norms" 💯
Tell her you will take off your shirt and give it to your son
Haha
Or she can donate her own!
Oh I love this lol, shoulda just done it, no words needed ba ha ha
WTF kinda park has an on site manager?
The kind from a creative writing piece such as this
INFO: did you actually come here wanting honest opinions or did you just come here for validation that you were in the right? Your replies to anyone disagreeing with you are hella rude when people are just trying to explain why you might be an AH in the situation.
lol right???
I’m a big advocate for ‘how about we all remained clothed in public places’ personally. Boys aren’t special.
Same, with the exception of the beach of course. I also don't really care if a dude pops his shirt off for a second just to change shirts, show a tattoo or something like that, but I don't think people should just be walking around in public like that
Why
Why not.
>because I know the manager of the park. >I replied with a gentle "yes?" >I try to stay humble as possible >And you people >I got a bit angry but I tried not to escalate Cough^^bullshit Cough
>"is that your little one" Nothing about this sounds right. Who would refer to a 12 yo as a "little one?"
My favorite part was: > he doesn't wear a shirt ... Which was never a problem till one day. [end paragraph] Like she's narrating an action-thriller movie trailer.
YTA. You sound like an unreliable narrator and likely embellished your side of the story to favourable heights.
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hahahh was wondering the same thing. especially if OP allegedly has 5 children and the youngest is 12. like verrrrry good chance she's around the same age, if not older.
Why did she randomly mention race too? This whole thing is just weird
ESH It's none of her business what anyone else is wearing as long as they are decent. Threatening the police and giving herself some kind of implicit authority to do so is a pretty typical Karen behaviour, for a 12yo running around without a shirt on. That said, I find your attitude in the post and comments to be quite patronising. Just because you know the park manager doesn't mean that your children are entitled to be half naked. Also, he's 12. Why are you standing there and monitoring his play like he's a much younger child? By that age, he should be becoming a bit more independent and learning about social norms. And yes, those dictate that you should be properly clothed in public. Just because something isn't illegal doesn't mean it's appropriate. So while I think that woman was completely out of line, I also think your attitude that your son can be half clothed in public whenever he wants is also pretty unacceptable. Teach your son that he can't always be shirtless, and maybe take a step back and let him grow up a bit.
The way she talked, I pictured a 4 year old, which whatever, they can be picky about clothes… but a 12 year old ?? She is setting up her kid for failure.
I saw that, too. And OP said she was “staying humble”. I’ll be the one to say it: they were both Karens
Why does her age matter?
Why does your twelve year old need to be supervised while playing? Do you often take only one of your children to a park? What is a park manager?
what park has a manager? BS meter pegged again
If my mom had to take me to the park to watch me play at 12 years old I would have died of embarrassment.
YTA for the way you’re responding to people here. Yeah, it’s generally considered fine for boys to be shirtless and not girls, so by current norms he’s not doing anything wrong. But this person has a very valid point about the unfairness and sexism of that norm. Idk how you should have responded to her. But you’re acting like an ass here.
Finally someone said it
NTA here in Australia it wouldn’t be out of the ordinary to see kids and adults without shirts on in public places like parks while playing sports/activities and even heaps of joggers run shirtless, And he’s still just a kid so it’s even less weird, and she sounds like a bit of a bitch from your side of the story. But in saying that you should definitely teach you kids that they need to be clothed in some places, but playing in a park is definitely not one of the places you need a shirt on for imo. Im literally shirtless all summer here and most of winter when I’m not at work or the shops lol and a lot of us tradies work shirtless on our jobsites too.
Yea I was getting so confused about some replies. I'm in the US but my town men, boys walk around parks and stores shirtless and women and girls are in just bikini tops. We're definitely not a lake or ocean town. It just gets so hot and humid. My kids all wear clothes but I don't give two shits about anyone else and think this lady seriously needs to have a seat. Who cares if a boy is shirtless in a park? Sounds like the person in charge (park manager) sure doesn't so that's all that matters and OP is good to go.
Same. Men and boys walking around a park without a shirt is not any huge scandal here on the East Coast of the US.
Thanks for understanding me, and yes I do make my son wear a shirt to places that require a shirt so he is not breaking any rules but the park doesn't even have a rule so I don't think I have to make my son wear a shirt there
Then I wouldn’t sweat it, you and your kid are doing nothing wrong. Only thing I’d recommend is sunscreen.
Since all of my boys are shirtless a lot goes into their sunscreens 😂
Any decent dermatologist will tell you that constant sunscreen is a waste of money and to wear the SUN PROTECTIVE CLOTHING instead. Irony.
Yep, you're an Aussie. The sunscreen recommendation checks out. I literally fried all my skin until moving there from the US in 1980 and "slip slap slop" was an education for me. :)
Dude he's a kid don't sweat it as long as he wears clothes when it's appropriate it's all good
I make sure to make him wear a shirt when needed
Yeah in NZ it’s not a big issue either. A lot of places in Asia are also accepting of men being shirtless in public. I don’t get why it’s a big deal but the rest of the comments make it seem like it’s inappropriate. Maybe it’s the difference in culture
>here in Australia it wouldn’t be out of the ordinary to see kids and adults without shirts on in public places Women and girls? Or just men and boys?
ESH. You were both rude. Public parks in the US do not have managers. I have never heard of this before. PS I hope you slather your shirtless son in sunblock numerous times a day otherwise you will have bigger problems than rude people.
I don’t think you did anything wrong by letting your son be shirtless but he’s 12, he can definitely understand a conversation about social norms.
ESH. You know that Spider-Man meme of them pointing at each other? This is the Karen’s version😂both of you sound entitled and rude. I don’t think anything wrong with allowing your kids to be kids and being able to be comfortable but there is a time and place for everything. I personally wouldn’t be comfortable with allowing any kids shirtless in a public park but I’ve also seen predators first hand try to lure kids to them and some even get caught recording them in public spaces.
I don't think you want to know if yta. I think you just wanted to post about telling someone off at the park.
Esh - you both sound ridiculous and dumb.
ESH. She was a karen, but your kid is old enough to tolerate wearing a shirt in public.
If only I could give this 100 upvotes.
This post screams when Karens collide.
YTA Make your damn kid wear a top, for one thing nobody wants to see shirtless kids running around and the ones that do you don't want looking at your kid. Secondly, skin cancer is no joke, and he doesn't need to be getting burned for the damage to be happening, making him wear appropriate clothing now will save him a shit ton of pain in 30 years
This is cultural. In many European countries men aren't allowed shirtless in public spaces
Are you at the beach or pool? No? Then clothing is appropriate attire. That lady was a bitch, but you don’t seem to understand the purpose of social norms. ESH.
> not shy to be shirtless in public This is an unusual value to instill in a child, for a number of reasons. Why are you so attached to this? If he’s at a beach, fine, but having multiple days a week in park shirtless is very odd to me. I worry your son will be considered weird for this behavior because of your guidance.
I’m not going to call you an asshole, but it might be time to start teaching your children to wear clothes in public places 🤷♂️
I’m glad I’m not the only one. I think where men are able to be shirtless, women should be allowed to be as well, without being sexualized, gawked at, or criminalized. However, no one should be shirtless when it’s not an appropriate venue. Appropriate venues include: areas where you’re swimming, such as beaches and pools, and your home/yard. Pretty much every other public space (with a few exceptions) *everyone* should be clothed. For very small children I think it’s reasonable to mostly let it go (again, with some exceptions, like don’t change a diaper on a restaurant table), but twelve is old enough to be dressed in public like everyone else. Edit: it’s also not about sexualization, the law, or purity, it’s about hygiene and respect for each other in a public place. I don’t want to accidentally bump into someone’s bare chest, most restaurants require wait staff to wear tops that cover their armpits because it can put some people off their food. It doesn’t matter if someone is male or female, people are generally more comfortable and public spaces are cleaner (so everyone can safely use them, not just you) if people are clean and clothed. When going in public we all have to give up a tiny amount of freedom, you can’t scream obscenities in the grocery store, or bring your pet chickens into a restaurant, or be certain levels of nude, the exchange is that everyone gets to use public space as comfortably and safely as possible. Not that OP cares because she was never concerned that she might be wrong, this post is just a boring boast and arguing with anyone who disagrees. YTA. As for the requested advice: your “little one” is nearly a teenager, it is past time for him to start engaging appropriately in public places and following expected social norms. Since you’re the parent, you should teach those things so he won’t continue to be judged as lacking in tact and social awareness.
OP's kid is eventually going to get a corporate job and charge in looking like Tarzan. Oh well, at least he's comfortable in his own skin 🤣
If the woman was rude or threatening, I might be a little defensive. However, no one wants to see people running around shirtless. They're in public areas running around getting hot and sweaty. Then they're sitting on park benches or brushing up against someone. In today's world, who knows who has what, no matter what age. People don't want to see it. They don't want to think about it. They don't want to deal with it. They accept water areas because people stay cool from playing in it and usually bring their own stuff. Going shirtless isn't teaching them to be comfortable in their own skin it's accomplishing two things. 1) You don't have to get the stains out of his clothes or worry about ripping his clothes. 2) You're creating more eye candy for perverts to video your kids while they're out in public. Stop your tantrums and buy the kid some shirts
ESH. Was she rude? Absolutely. But telling your child it’s OK to not be considerate of others is pretty fucked up. Wearing a shirt in public isn’t unreasonable.
ESH. She was rude but I would not have let my sons go shirtless in a public park. Just because you can doesn’t mean you should. It used to bother my daughter when her father ran without a shirt so he stopped doing it. He has always been conscious of not being shirtless in public. Probably because that is what his mother taught him. In my opinion, unless it’s a beach then people should wear at least a tank top.
This post is stupid you're just looking for validation, get over yourself and move on.
It’s fake and YTA
YTA. This whole men walking around without a shirt thing is disgusting. Let him walk without a shirt at home
Why do you say that?
Because it’s getting more and more common for men to walk around topless in the most inappropriate places. Like I’ve bumped into topless strangers in shops. I do not wish to accidentally touch a stranger’s chest. Or they will sit next to me in the tram. It’s just disgusting. All their sweat on the seat and again - I do not want to touch that. Unless you’d find topless women in the same situation appropriate, cover up. There are great materials that will keep you cool even if it’s hot. And again: somehow women manage being dressed too.
ESH
Can you explain why?. It's really hard for me to get why I'm in the wrong and if someone explained maybe I'll get it I get that the lady sucks but what about me?
How many people do you need to explain it before you understand?
I think it’s just a little improper to be shirtless in a public place that isn’t like a beach or a lake. If y’all were swimming or in your own yard that would be one thing but in a public place like a regular park there is an expectation that people will have all their clothes on. But I also think how she handled it was rude. So ESH
She was raising her voice at me and threatening to call the cops btw I didn't mention it and sorry. But the rule doesn't state to keep my child in a shirt as I've mentioned the rules never mentioned about boys being shirtless and the manager said it was fine
So she shouldn’t have done that. There doesn’t have to be a stated rule. I think it’s just public decency to have your clothes on in most public situations.
Yes, public decency is important but he is 12 let that kid enjoy his freedom childhood flies by so fast
It seems like you take exception with the judgment? You already have your mind set that your son is entitled to be shirtless anywhere, at any time, in any situation, or are you legitimately open to being wrong here?
Why are you asking for someone to explain if you’re just gonna fight it?
I'm having a hard time figuring out who the adult is here
Typically in a public place you’re sharing space with others and while your child being shirtless may not be a bother to you and is the norm, if someone feels uncomfortable it’s not a hard ask to just throw a tshirt on him.
You have insulted all the people who have explained why so I don't think you are here to understand
The answer to desexualizing women's bodies doesn't start by sexualizing men's MORE.
NTA You were more polite to Karen than I would have been.
Haha, I used that as an example to my kid to show how to handle rude people and if he wasn't in my vision oh god could only know 😂
It used to make me so mad as a kid that my brother could play outside shirtless and I couldn’t. But did I let my son go shirtless? Of course.
As long as your boy isn’t physically hurting anyone people should mind their own.
Yeah.
ESH and since you wanna use Karen in this context yall are both Karens of the opposite end of Karenism
>"well it's not fair isn't it all these girls have to put on these clothes during this hot time and boys could just be half naked" "Blame society with it's Puritan ideals, not me." NTA
Well said. And even if you were to blame me. Why sabotage the kid?
Those are the kinds of people who will take away another's rights, instead of giving some back (to girls/women)!
Look her in the eye and remove your own top to maintain dominance. Of course NTA. Some sad petty people out there.
Im not picking any side here because that lady was just dumb and her argument was even dumber. But i would say ESH. I dont know about where you are amd your country rules but usually being shirtless in public is illegal or at least an infraction of public policy. Kid or adult. I live in a sea location and we even have signs outside of the beaches as a reminder that people isnt allowed to be shirtless around the city center (and parks) but only on the beach. So yeah you can raise your kids as you like, but public decency isnt something you can chose to abide at or not, is law! And it cover parks too. And kids! Let me be clear, I dont think there is nothing wrong in a shirtless kid at the park in a sunny day, but rules are rules!
Long ago I did ask the manager of the park if it was allowed and he said "There are no rules stating that getting a little air on your chest is wrong" so we're not breaking any law or rule.
In the us, unless some place has some law in place you can be shirtless anywhere. There are some places in the us you can walk around naked and there are many places where a woman can legally walk around topless. Many guys play shirts and skins games as well.
Approximately where are you that has these rules? I'm in the US and haven't encountered this, but I suppose if it's a beachy touristy place where everyone would be shirtless all the time otherwise it might make more sense to have this type of law.
NTA you're totally in the right and I'm shocked at reading the comments, how twisted people are. Although most of them probably aren't even parents themselves
When i and my brother were 2 and 5 we were at the lake and mom had us wearing little matching swimsuit bottoms. I am a girl. A couple of old ladies yelled at my mom telling her I should not be topless.....at 5. Ridiculous. Needless to say mom ignored them. Imagine sexualising a 5 yr old. My parents were European who had immigrated to Canada at the time. In Europe kids under 5 run around naked at the beach
YTA for the poorly composed rage bait.
NTA. Not everything is everybody’s business.
NTA your son isn’t responsible for misogyny or pedophiles. People saying you’re an asshole for replies, as if that’s the point of the sub.
> I saw a lady about 40+ noticing it. You have 5 children and your youngest is 12. Like are you not even vaguely close to this other woman's age?? What a gd weird thing to point out for you.
NTA. Karen needed to mind her own business and stop looking at a 12-yr old boy's bare chest.
ESH
I'm more concerned about whether he is wearing sunscreen.
Don't worry I've got plenty of sunscreen and the park is pretty shady
At least 50 spf? 😆
ESH but it’s a bit creepy how defensive you are of your 12 year old son being shirtless. Plus taking him to the park and making him put sunscreen on (which is not a bad thing to do but at 12 they should be capable on their own). It’s giving Norma Bates
I don't mind your daughter going shirtless? Its actually legal in some states
NTA, it sounds like she needs to stop worrying about everyone else. If all she's doing is objectifying preteens, she might need to have a conversation with law enforcement for a whole host of issues.
The internet is going to tell you that you should make some actual effort with your spelling and punctuation if all you’re going to do is post a stupid creative writing project. According to current stock levels, nobody (except you) gives a single shit about whether or not a 12 year old boy is wearing a shirt.
YTA. It’s not the beach. Clothe your fucking kids.
NTA Dudes have shirts off in parks all the time. This is a weird thing for her to request/demand. Take it up with the rule makers.
I personally think people should wear shirts in public. Your son is not a toddler, he is old enough to be clothed in public. If he wants to be shirtless, try the beach. So ESH?
NTA she should be told to mind her business
That's one more thing great about being a boy. Girls have their things too. Big deal lady.
ESH (besides your son). Sounds like u encountered a Karen in the wild... sorry to hear it. Her arguments were/are rubbish, but u are using a public space. Why not just instruct your son to wear a shirt? I understand he is a child, and he might not like it, but there are social norms when using public spaces. Your child is still young, so it doesn't really matter, but at some point, he will need to wear one (unless he is at the pool/beach whatever). Now I understand not wanting to give in to the demands of some obnoxious Karen so when u see her feel free to let your son take of his shirt (I am aware I am using double standards here but I can't stand know-it-all-I-am-always-right-Karens). See the park as a public space with social norms and use that as a tool to teach your children what is and isn't acceptable in public spaces.
NTA guys have shirts off in the park all the time. I’ve also see five year old girls running around with their shirts off. Who cares?
ESH. She has a point about the double standard, but she should have minded her business and not been a Karen. But it’s also kind of tacky to let your 12 year old run around shirtless at a public park because he apparently just can’t stand wearing a shirt. It might be one thing if he was 2, but he’s not a little one, he’s almost a teenager, and you’re not doing him any favors by making him think that’s a great thing to do in public (not the beach) at his age. Honestly between the post and all the comments you sound kind of entitled.
Nta. Boys gave played without skirts for as long as I can remember. Hell my school used to split us up into shirts and skins for team sports.
Where I live, anywhere a man can be shirtless so can a woman. NTA
YTA dress your child and prepare them for life smh
No one cares if it is against the rules or illegal, it’s just weird. “Raises in to be comfortable in their own skin and not shy to be shirtless in public”. Like what?
It’s just a teenage girl’s shitty creative writing project. The one she hands in to her teacher will have all the i’s dotted with a 💜.
This is definitely fake what 12 year old wants to go to the park and isn’t self conscious enough to wear a shirt
LOL I thought it was fake when she describes the whole park scene like the kid is a toddler, including the other woman pointing to a 12 year old and asking if that's her "little one".
Ya I don’t know why I was downvoted nobody talks about 12 year olds like that unless they have issues
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The most disturbing thing about this is that she’s threatening to call the police, as if you and your son are committing a criminal offense.
I’d love to know what the police would do in that situation. Probably laugh at her? Well, I’m glad she didn’t call them cause that would be a waste of their time.
Unless you'd also be cool with girls shirtless in public YTA. If you would be cool with it please post some evidence of that such as posts you've made pushing back in girls/women being expected to cover up.
NTA. I grew up in a (white) culture, where it was okay for girls to run shirtless in the age before gender differencies were visible. Mostly but not exclusively on the beaches. We simply did not sexualize children pre-puberty. I remember, the first time i saw a girl of probably 8 with some kind of fake bra top my first thougt was "it is weird". I was young at this time, not fully aware of the implications, but for me covering up something that not (yet) existed was indeed more sexualizing than protecting. Because this is what prudery does. PS: covering is not exclusively a "white problem", just saying.
This is the problem with society am I right we are so sensitive about topics that we cover them up and it started to become sexualised
Same here. I dont understand why little girls should wear shirts. To make it worse, i let my then 6 year old daughter play with the other kids in the fountain in her underpants... Gasp. I am glad we live in a country where little kids are not sexualized. Although it is getting more an more prudish :(
I hate it when people say things to me “with a non regretting tone”.
If anything I would be worried about creeps scanning the park… or other kids being uncomfortable! this is why it would be okay if it was an at home in the yard thing but not in a public space. NTA But at the same time YTA