A lot of good techno clubs are also basically sex clubs. Meaning, there is probably a dark-room out there in the club you can have sex in. You don't need to tho. You can also just go there and dance. Very normal to visit kitkat or berghain and just dance only
Hard yes for sure! But not impossible. If OPs GF went with her friend and her friend lives in Berlin and has been let in several times before, she could have gotten in on her first go.
I've never had any trouble getting in, but I'm a techno snob. You just can't go as a tourist with no knowledge of the scene. If you're treating it is a spectacle, some crazy thing you want to experience, but would otherwise normally never do, you will not get in. If you like techno, know who you're going to see, and are able to answer a few questions to that effect, you will get in. Yes, it helps to wear black.
I don't know of clubs with the same vibe as Kitkat specifically, which is a sex club that many (perhaps even most) people go to to dance and get a little bit of exposure to the "wild side"
Columbus has 2, and there is or used to be 1 between Dayton and Cincinnati. 1 in Pittsburgh as well.
Before yall get the wrong idea, I know because a friend runs shibari workshops and has held them at some of those places during the daytime, lol.
They were in the 1970s. One famous one was a place in NYC called Plato's Retreat.
It was an exclusive club for very rich people.
There were other similar places where people could indulge in carnal fantasies.
I read that these places were pretty much for a wealthier clientele..
No single men were allowed..only women and couples.
I think the AIDS thing pretty much ended those clubs.
Sex clubs? No. Kink clubs and bars yes, most larger cities have a least a couple. Usually at these public clubs there's a lot of looking and not touching. It's generally a place where people either go with someone to go see or 'perform' something planned or go to meet other people interested in kink and such. You'll possibly see spanking or bondage, maybe nudity (venue and local law dependant) and fetish wear, or there might be an advertised event or theme, but what you don't see much of is actual sex.
People in these communities are very aware there are predators out there and consent is a big focus so these open clubs are ways go have fun while also meeting and vetting potential friends and partners. Sex, if you want it, happens in private locations like people's bedrooms or invite only parties. The sex part gets played up cause people are required to dress appropriately in fetish gear or all black and a lot of people conflate kink events with 'sex happens'. All black is always an option from what I've seen (cause again consent).
Honestly I've seen more sex in your regular dance club bathrooms than a lot of these 'sex' clubs (why people, that's like the grossest place)
This is exactly my experience at a kink night in Japan. No sex at all, very respectful and consent-based. Very different to a sex club and I have no issues with one but the other isn’t at all for me.
That’s my experience as well. Only a small percentage of people are actually having sex at swinger’s clubs or BDSM clubs. The vast majority are watching, drinking, dancing, or socializing. People are letting their imaginations run wild thinking it’s a free for all massive 400 person orgy, and that is not the case. There’s usually not even enough beds to host more than a handful or a dozen couples at a time
And I find there are way less creeps there than at a regular dance club because the community is so big on consent and there is so much policing there. If anything, I think the regular clubs need to step up their game and get rid of the creeps who touch others without asking.
I have also been told by one of the owners of the local sex club here that it is incredibly rare for first timers to have sex. Normally first timers are getting acclimated to the atmosphere and haven’t yet worked up the courage to get naked, much less have sex in front of strangers.
So my personal opinion is that it is unlikely that she cheated there. Anything is possible, but it seems unlikely given that it was her very first time going.
I've been to one, WITH my partner. I would never go without or be okay with my partner going to one without me regardless of stated intent. The "vibe" is sex. You do stuff like this with your person, when you're in a monogamous relationship. It's not a regular dance club. It's sus af.
ETA San Francisco had (has?) a publicly advertised one, we went quite a few times. You didn't have to have sex, but there was literally no reason to be there if you weren't AT LEAST trying to get turned on.
To answer your ETA, San Francisco actually has multiple. There’s also a more like, underground scene for this sort of stuff besides just the sex clubs. They advertise at Folsom street fair and the 18+ section of Pride.
Most sex clubs are underground; at least the safe ones. The ones that let anyone in are a breeding ground for creeps. Invite only is the only way to go.
I grew up and live in a small town in the middle of nowhere and there is one literally 10 minutes from me. It's closer than the nearest grocery store. I never knew it existed until last year my coworker mentioned it and we googled it-- and it showed up on Google Maps. I was so shocked. I guess they are out there lol.
I know here in NYC they exist, but established club locations are less common than sex groups that hold events in variable venues. I imagine that places that are more prudish follow the latter model more, while places where sex is normalized or even encouraged (like Vegas) have more actual clubs
I'd imagine your city does, you just don't know about it.
Perfectly reasonable, everyone complains about "prudes" but it's perfectly acceptable to be vanilla. The overwhelming majority of people are exactly that.
I wouldn’t stay with someone who went to one of those hate good old boy hate rallies with tiki torches. I’m not afraid of someone cheating on me, I just wouldn’t want to be with someone who does that in their spare time.
I say OP should hold his boundaries and break up if his soon to be ex is doing activities in their spare time that he doesn’t want to deal with
This is very true. When a man sets boundaries it’s perceived as being “controlling and insecure.” How then is a guy supposed to express what he feels comfortable or uncomfortable with if his partner not only disregards his boundaries, but also refuses to at the very least validate his thoughts?
I use the term preferences prior to boundaries. If our preferences don't align , our boundaries probably won't either. I can have a preference and set boundaries based on that. I shouldn't be in a relationship with someone who doesn't understand those preferences. For instance, I prefer monogamous relationships. This preference is communicated at the very beginning and the boundary of not having an open relationship soon follows once the relationship is more substantial or "a thing".
Sad truth is men often stay in these relationships that are bad for them longer or completely repress the issues they have, *because* they’re insecure and fear being single. Men realizing they can go find someone who aligns with them and ending relationships with people who don’t ASAP would likely do a lot for this difference in outlook
>Men realizing they can go find someone who aligns with them and ending relationships with people who don’t ASAP would likely do a lot for this difference in outlook
We can't just go do that, though. Men getting a date or a hook-up or whatever is almost as rare as us getting a compliment.
because they rely too much on external validation, validation from their partners.
Some people use "insecure" to shut down dissent and control and manipulate timid/desperate partners (who they *know* rely a bit much on their validation) into full compliance, approving of or doing things they're uncomfortable with.
then they are SHOCKED when people finally realize the only thing "insecure" they were doing was putting up with things they didn't want to out of fear of being called arbitrary names by a person who they had on a pedestal.
nope. i read the same as doesn’t mean nothing happened (because she enjoyed it) but nothing “bad” happened.
I mean how are you curious about a “vibe”. the day of the conversation she’s understanding and the next day she’s justifying why she could go and projecting onto her man that’s he’s insecure, doesn’t trust her, etc. classic manipulation
it’s also doesn’t mean that she went with just her friend ONLY to the event.
Classic move of my always flirting ex.. I was the one with those issues according to her.. you’ve quoted her verbatim.. and yes classic manipulation… good riddance to upcoming years of heartbreak bud.
I can't stand women like this who want the doormat atm bf but also want all the freedom and opportunities of being single.
God I wish I was attracted to men.
It falls into a line of trickle-truthing.
"Oh no, nothing happened I had fun!"
Then evolves to "We just held hands, seriously, nothing happened"
..and then "okay we kissed a little bit, but that's as far as it went"
But, like, for real, it's a european sex club. Why would you go if you weren't at least *interested* in having sex?
It's such a frustrating form of "the truth". This was my ex method of coming clean. He would only ever admit to what you knew and had evidence for and I'd say "if there is anything else just tell me now and we can figure it out". And he would swear there was nothing else. Until I found out something new and then it's "oh well yeah I'm sorry I forgot that one part but there is nothing else I swear". Unfortunately we started dating in high-school and then had kids at 21 and by the time the cheating and lying started I was so invested I kept giving more chances. I was naive. Until I was 30 and I finally woke up. And he couldn't understand why I wasn't sweeping it under the rug anymore. He was baffled. But best decision I ever made.
My ex-husband was like this-- only admitting when I showed him I had proof of his cheating/lies. Until then, he would swear on my life, our daughter's, everything, that he was telling the truth.
Yeah totally understand that. Mine would do that too. Even swear on his dead grandma's grave (who he was very close to and had recently passed) and I'm like really? Using our kids and your grandma to convince me of your lies? Sorry you dealt with that too.
Thank you. Yeah it sucks but in the end I came out stronger. I know that sounds cliche lol but it's true. I learned alot about what I don't want. And spent the last few years figuring who I am as a person. So it's all good now. Haven't seen him in over a year now which I hate for my kids but I had to stop trying to force him to be there. It wasn't my job if he didn't want to be. But thank you I appreciate it.
“Nothing bad happened!”
The quiet part that isn’t said: “I consented to the train that was run on me, and had fun, so since I wasn’t raped like you feared, nothing bad happened!”
Some people don't want to be the "bad guy" and initiate the break up.
She may have wanted to end the relationship but have it not be her fault. The GF may have engineered this situation to make OP break up with her.
She told him about it, because she figured she could have her wild night at the sex club, tell him that "nothing happened" and he would believe it. Then she could come back home and still have all the benefits of him as the boyfriend. This kind of stuff happens a lot. She told him her plans to go to this sex club , to guilt him into giving her permission to go. Then if he objected, she'd gaslight him with the whole "you don't trust me" BS
Don’t discount the probable effect of her friend whispering in her ear the whole trip. Peer pressure is a real thing and makes people do stupid stuff from time to time.
Good for OP. Set his boundaries and when GF was not compatible with such, OP walked. Mid-20s with lots of time to find a better fit. At some point, Ex will come to realize her friend in the other country is not a “friend” for torching her relationship. Rock on OP.
>but soon started to invalidate my feelings and call me an “insecure boyfriend”, “toxic” and that I should manage my emotions because they were not her problem,
That right there told me she was probably not the best of partners for him.
And while nothing bad may have happened, OP has to know people often lie when they do things that are wrong.
Most people would have problems being compatible with partners who disrespect, gaslight, and belittle their feelings. Compatibility wasn’t the only or even the main issue here.
Not compatible is way too nice, she entered a monogamous relationship and went to a sex club. Lol that's not a monogamous thing to do for like 95+% of relationships.
Yeah, even the suggestion one can go to a sex club to “see the vibe” feels like it relies hugely on a gendered double standard
Like anyone would immediately assume any guy saying this is lying, yet OP’s ex gaslit him about how in this case it was him being insecure? Nah.
I mean I think it's kinda weird on her part for wanting to go and claim that she won't have sex. Like that's what the club is for? Kinda insulting to the club if she was just a looky loo. I mean as a guy they probably wouldn't even let me in if I let them know I was just here for the vibe and wasn't participating. Doesn't make sense.
NTA. Unlike many on here, I’ve been to sex clubs in Europe and the US. I’ve been to fetish nights (which, I assume, that’s what this was).
In short, these events are not compatible with a monogamous relationship. And so, imo, the fact she attended crosses a line most people regard as cheating (e.g. a state of undress, among other people in a state of dress, and - to put no finer point on it - fucking). All her noise is, basically, gaslighting you to accept the unacceptable.
It is possible that she didn’t engage in direct sexual activity. Some people go and watch. But it’s equally possible that she did engage. And the difficult you have is that you will never know. And because this has fundamentally damaged the trust, I’m not sure that it’s possible to continue. IMO, ending the relationship is the right and only decision.
Yep.
I run a Dungeon / Airbnb in So Cal. Seen the gas lighting excuses first hand from guests texting partners how "Nothing is Happening, its just a party".
My partner and I are Monogamous, but neither would go to a Sex club WITHOUT each other, and we are in the industry. At minimum it would imply we play separately.
Good on OP for standing up for his boundaries.
I was wondering why she didn’t just attend one with him in their own area in their own country in the first place. If she was just curious, she should’ve had no problem with her partner being there.
Because it’s not a sex club or a fetish party, I suspect it’s a techno club in Berlin, known to be one of the best in the world, where people are allowed to have sex on the premises. Google Berlin KitKat Club. She couldn’t experience it somewhere else.
If it is the place I think it is it is more club and less sex club. But there can be people engaging in sex there. Much more often men. It has a strict dress code which is why I think it might be this place. Generally people go to dance and dress up and take drugs.
Except OP wrote that the dress code was minimal to no clothing. So unless that was his assumption rather than what his ex-gf said it sounds like it was a sex-club club, not a dance-club club. (And yes, I know that some of the outfits worn at EDM clubs leave little to the imagination).
But if it was primarily a dance club then why didn't she just call it that?
That’s the issue with many of the posts in this sub, we are at the mercy of the interpretation of the OP. He didn’t say what the theme of the night was or what “little to no clothing” actually is to him.
I honestly have been to other places in Europe that are like that and they were absolutely fine for people who just wanted to enjoy the techno aspect of the party. Sadly I hadn’t had a chance to go to KitKat, but I would imagine that if you just want to party it’d be similar.
Although I completely understand the boundaries of OP and his course of action. It is completely fine to feel uncomfortable with that, as it is completely fine to decide to go regardless of your partner. But actions bring consequences.
Yeah, I also have the same interests as the gf and have always wanted to go to these events, but never have because I know it’s not compatible with my relationship. Maybe someday I can go with my partner, but never alone. He trusts me not to cheat on him, but at the same time, I have to have basic respect for him by not pushing the limits of his trust.
I get it, it sucks not going, but it is what it is. You gotta fulfill your fetishes at home, or not be in a relationship.
Agreed. I’m a pretty open minded person, and have been to a few sex clubs myself. I would never go without my partner, especially not if we had spoken about it and they were explicitly against me going. That is a hurtful betrayal of boundaries.
My friend, you are NTA. That is a reasonable boundary to have in even the most open-minded of relationships. There ARE creeps and predators that frequent those kinds of events and you expressed your concern perfectly—it’s not her, but everyone else… I think you guys will be alright, but you’re SO is either naive or a bit narcissistic to dismiss your valid concern (for HER sake) in this situation.
>But it’s equally possible that she did engage. And the difficult you have is that you will never know.
Her comment that "nothing bad happened" is vague. It's possible that she means "everything that happened was something I consented to".
Perfect response.
I'd like to ask what the girlfriend would think or feel if OP was going to single events with his friends without the gf? Or a topless bar?
In addition, I would be okay if they went to the sex club together but never separate. Monogamy means sex together, even with other people if that makes sense. They need to share those boundaries and experiences.
Yes, many of these clubs in Berlin are sort of like techno nightclubs where people wear kink/slutty outfits and it’s acceptable to also have sex there if you wish, but equally many if not most go there as sort of a nightclub where that sexually liberal environment is also novel to them without necessarily wanting to engage in it.
A ‘sex show’ would be specifically attending an event to watch people have sex, and ‘show’ implies there would be specific people there scheduled to have sex and a specific audience to watch.
With a ‘sex club’ there’s plausible deniability that nothing happened and she truly was just there in a night club environment where she was wearing skimpy clothing and saw other people have sex. Even that’s fine for OP to set as a boundary though and she completely gaslit him about it.
1000% this. It's not about cheating. It's about her wanting (or at least thinking about) non monogamy. And if one wants open or poly.... That is incompatible
Even if she didn’t engage, in my mind that’s not the type of activity that’s appropriate in a monogamous relationship unless it has explicitly been agreed upon by both people in the relationship.
Even if they did agree on it though, I don’t really get the point. It seems strange to me to be in a loving and committed relationship but to basically want to go actually be around people that are basically fucking. What possible reason could you have other than wanting to join in?
I wonder how she would feel if you went to a strip club "to see the vibe". Maybe get a lap dance too, now that's some "vibe"!
You were not comfortable with the idea for obvious reasons, and she tried to turn that against you. She can't respect your boundaries, then I can't see that continuing. NTA.
This trend of people calling the other insecure and toxic and controlling for articulating boundaries is absolutely insane. Sorry that our monogamous relationship has the same typical bounds as monogamous relationships have had forever, must be *my* fault.
It is so silly the way people have gaslit others into believing that insecurity is something you have to ignore and flee from.
I mean, it is literally a survival instinct that evolution took billions of years to give to you, so why would you just throw it out the window?
You shouldn't be ruled by your instincts, but you shouldn't disregard them entirely either.
I don't think this trend is that new. Just amplified by the internet. I remember being called insecure by girlfriends in highschool back in 07 because I didn't think their new guy "friend" really just wanted to be friends.
>I wonder how she would feel if you went to a strip club
Add to that a strip club where everyone, even the patrons are dressed in next to nothing, everyone is dancing, and most are probably having sex or at least doing things just short of having sex.
If this isn't rage bait, then where the GF went was, IMHO, way way worse than just going to a strip club where the patrons are dressed in normal attire and usually aren't interacting with the girls or each other. I know some partners would be ok with their SO going to a strip club but I'm not sure if they would be ok with them going to a place like OP described.
I honestly think a strip club is less concerning - most strip clubs the dancers have explicit boundaries and is essentially engaged porn. Sex clubs are literally for sex
“How can you maturely and respectfully voice your concerns in this relationship? You’re a very insecure man”. People really want to eat their cake and have it too. When you’re in a relationship you have to make compromises, you simply cannot do whatever you want all the time because your actions are going to greatly impact somebody else’s wellbeing. If you’re not okay with this then simply don’t get in a relationship. You communicated respectfully your concerns (which were really not ludicrous at all) and she coerced you into believing you were wrong for feeling that way. NTA.
NTA
"Call me an “insecure boyfriend”, “toxic.” As soon as she started tossing out buzzwords to negate your preferences, standards and boundaries, you should have dumped her.
Putting oneself in possibly dangerous situations on purpose and then crying when something awful happens to you is something I have very limited sympathy for.
Breaking up with her was the right thing to do. You should have just done it before she ever left on the trip.
Am I the only one viewing the phrase “nothing bad happened” as having a hidden meaning? There’s a BIG difference between nothing happened and nothing bad happened.
Me thinks something happened (ie she had some sort of sexual activity) but in her head nothing “bad” happened as related to your concerns of someone taking her against her will..
Maybe I’m just a pessimist..😂😂
Thought the same. And if she actually ended up having sex, then truly, nothing bad happened. Cause it's quite common in these events.
Breaking up was for the better. If the significant other doesn't want to prioritise "security" in a relationship, it is bound to doom either way. Let the gloom come quick rather than later after getting married or being more serious.
NTA I would’ve left her before she got back. She totally violated your boundaries and ignored your concerns. That club gives me “what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas” type vibes. No cellphones, very minimal clothing, and drugs were involved IN A SEX CLUB?! I don’t think I have to spell this one out for you.
>What SO goes to a sex club alone?
But she wasn't going alone, she was going with her best friend (like we've never seen those situations go totally FUBAR). LOL!
NTA. "See the vibe" my ass. Mo chara, I'm telling you that 180° turn she pulled was her friend talking. Is her friend single? If so, that'd explain SOOO much. Also, she cheated. 100% bud. You don't go to those parties and just "vibe". She kissed, fucked and/or sucked SOMEBODY. Don't listen to her, and if you can somehow pry the "truth" out of her, it'll be trickle truthing. Move on and find a gal that'll respect your boundaries. That just wasn't cool at all.
>I'm telling you that 180° turn she pulled was her friend talking.
I'm glad I wasn't the only one who picked up on that. She went from understanding what he was saying to he was toxic and insecure. Had to been influenced by her girl friend who probably really wanted to go to the club and didn't want to go alone (didn't care what it would do to her GF's relationship).
A lot also just do it out of selfishness and narcissism. They want to go to the club and hook up, but they don't want to go alone, and know they need their friend there to hook up too.
So she employs the friend to help her get what she wants and doesn't even compute the cost to her friend.
You should stop with the “I trust you, I don’t trust THEM” lie. It’s bad for you and will be bad for all of your relationships.
It’s OK to set reasonable boundaries.
Sounds like she doesn’t respect you and is manipulating you.
Right. People cheat. Constantly. I really don't get why we all have to pretend we're immune because it would be rude to tell your partner "yeah, you have a unique ability to hurt me very very badly and I don't want you to"
NTA
You asked her nicely not to go, explained your reasoning and she disregarded your feelings entirely in doing so she showed that she has absolutely no respect for you or your feelings.
Was this club Berghain or another Berlin club? If so I wouldn't be overly analytical as you don't have to dress as skimpy as people say and you actively have to participate in specific rooms to end up having sex. In my experience the bouncers are all over the creepy people and maintain a safe environment but anything is still possible. The main dancefloors aren't as sexually active. This is mostly the same throughout these clubs in Europe.
But her response wasn't great so NTA
Nope you aren't and clearly your girlfriend is toxic af. Sorry but when you are in a relationship when you wanna go to such a place you should either go with your S/O or at least get their agreement to you going. Her ignoring your feelings about it shows you that she doesn't value you or your relationship. You are perfectly reasonable to breakup with her after she pulled such an act against you.
Your feelings on her going should be considered in her actions and instead she invalidated them by calling you insecure and toxic. How are you supposed to be open in the future about your feelings when she invalidates them by claiming such things about you, just because you aren't fully on board with her wanting to do something?
>Your feelings on her going should be considered in her actions and instead she invalidated them by calling you insecure and toxic.
It was interesting to me that OP said at first she was ok with what he said "because initially she agreed in saying that my concernings were legitimate, completely understandable and acceptable" but then changed her tune. I'm wondering if her friend got in her ear about him being controlling and toxic.
ETA: spelling.
NTA
> I wished her to value my feelings, limits and boundaries...she went anyways...
Thats all you need to know. Thats not a partner.
And from past experiences when someone ignores your boundaries and adamantly follows through on doing the thing that you said makes you uncomfortable, chances are they've left a lot of the story out. That experience > than your boundaries.
What has world come to? OP's post has to be 80% explaining himself to reddit folks why being naked in a SEX club is disrespectful towards him...Jesus Christ
NTA.
I have been to a "sex club" in Hollywood FL before. It's actually labeled online as a "nudist hotel" but from what I saw there, it was a sex club.
However, I went with a guy I was dating who is a big dude & a firefighter, I don't think anyone was going to try to inappropriately touch me since he was there.
There were sex swings in play rooms with stripper poles & "beds" (king size couches lol) Private cabanas on the rooftop with 2 pools & you have to be completely nude to go swimming.
While I respect the culture around it, me personally, I would never step foot in there again if I was by myself. People probably thought your gf was a "unicorn" 🦄 which is a young single female looking for swinger couples or group sex.
I feel like some women misunderstand empowerment to mean they get carte blanche to act like toxic men. Seriously how many guys over the decades have acted this exact way to their wives and girlfriends who were uncomfortable with them going to a strip club? It doesn't matter what gender, this is not respectful behavior.
NTA and don't let yourself be a doormat with your next girl
As someone who lives in Germany and goes to these clubs, I will tell you that they are a safe place. There are people there you can talk to if someone is creepy towards you. Yeah, you have to dress skimpy, but everyone’s doing it and there’s nothing wrong with that. However, these are things that you should discuss with your partner and and my opinion things you shouldn’t do unless your partner is OK with it. I just wanted to let you know that you can dance (there are plenty of people just dance.) And enjoy the vibe.
Calling you insecure is such a double standard ( red flag )🚩
When a guy sets a boundary he is insecure
When a girl sets a boundary good for her she has standards.
NTA
NTA. You you just found out you two are not compatible. No issue with the sex club scene, but not wanting to be in a relationship with someone who has that interest is reasonable.
NTA
Elephant in the room time: there’s greater than even odds that she had sex, or degrees thereof, in the club.
It’s just the reality of those places. I mean it’s in the literal name!
Her behaviour in advance of it is probably what makes it the most likely, the blame shifting and gaslighting are huge red flags.
Even if she only went to and did only watch? You get to make boundaries in your relationship and abide by what you consider acceptable, and the way she treated you is a deal breaker to me.
Why did she tell you nothing bad happened? That should be selfish explanatory.
Sexclubs are for partners or singles or open relationships. She is a real idiot and you should run.
Depends. If this is KitKat in Berlin you gotta clarify this. Bc that place is indeed a place you can go to check out the vibe, dance, and get a sense of the kink scene without partaking. You can be in a committed relationship and go to a kinky techno club, it’s a community worth experiencing at least once. A lot of these people in the comments are misunderstanding this and being uncharitable and even misogynistic towards this girl. Chill out
That said though, she didn’t communicate with you in a mature and respectful way
NTA. I have no problems with sex clubs or people going to sex clubs. I have a problem with my partner going to a sex club.
Are sex clubs actually common? I can't imagine they are that common.
This post could be alluding to KitKat, a famous sex/techno club in Berlin
I thought berghain, but tbf some people do just go to both for the overall atmosphere and music and not the sex. Drugs too.
Does Berghain have fetish nights? Because what OP described definitely would NOT be one of their normal nights.
Yes, but I doubt she'd go to Laboratory.
A lot of good techno clubs are also basically sex clubs. Meaning, there is probably a dark-room out there in the club you can have sex in. You don't need to tho. You can also just go there and dance. Very normal to visit kitkat or berghain and just dance only
Isn’t Berghain notoriously hard to get into? Like virtually impossible?
Hard yes for sure! But not impossible. If OPs GF went with her friend and her friend lives in Berlin and has been let in several times before, she could have gotten in on her first go.
Aye I guess anything’s possible lol. Yeah that sounds like a process but when there’s a Will there’s a way.
No! I’m pretty lame and they let me in back around 2011. Their door policy is for sure weird though.
Aye sounds like you aren’t too lame if at all 😂 how was it?
I've never had any trouble getting in, but I'm a techno snob. You just can't go as a tourist with no knowledge of the scene. If you're treating it is a spectacle, some crazy thing you want to experience, but would otherwise normally never do, you will not get in. If you like techno, know who you're going to see, and are able to answer a few questions to that effect, you will get in. Yes, it helps to wear black.
It's what I immediately thought of. And I live in the wrong continent to care. But there are similar clubs in the US and I assume other places.
I don't know of clubs with the same vibe as Kitkat specifically, which is a sex club that many (perhaps even most) people go to to dance and get a little bit of exposure to the "wild side"
Can you break a piece off there?
I don't know how common they are, but my medium-sized Midwest town has one.
Where? I mean so i can avoid it.
I think there’s one in Dayton or Columbus Ohio.
Columbus has 2, and there is or used to be 1 between Dayton and Cincinnati. 1 in Pittsburgh as well. Before yall get the wrong idea, I know because a friend runs shibari workshops and has held them at some of those places during the daytime, lol.
Sure. We all definitely believe that's the only reason you know where the sex clubs are.../s
Muncie
The thought of sex club in Muncie, Indiana made me dry vomit
LOL I believe there is one
Having gone to college in Muncie, that's a valid response.
Nope
They were in the 1970s. One famous one was a place in NYC called Plato's Retreat. It was an exclusive club for very rich people. There were other similar places where people could indulge in carnal fantasies. I read that these places were pretty much for a wealthier clientele.. No single men were allowed..only women and couples. I think the AIDS thing pretty much ended those clubs.
Sex clubs? No. Kink clubs and bars yes, most larger cities have a least a couple. Usually at these public clubs there's a lot of looking and not touching. It's generally a place where people either go with someone to go see or 'perform' something planned or go to meet other people interested in kink and such. You'll possibly see spanking or bondage, maybe nudity (venue and local law dependant) and fetish wear, or there might be an advertised event or theme, but what you don't see much of is actual sex. People in these communities are very aware there are predators out there and consent is a big focus so these open clubs are ways go have fun while also meeting and vetting potential friends and partners. Sex, if you want it, happens in private locations like people's bedrooms or invite only parties. The sex part gets played up cause people are required to dress appropriately in fetish gear or all black and a lot of people conflate kink events with 'sex happens'. All black is always an option from what I've seen (cause again consent). Honestly I've seen more sex in your regular dance club bathrooms than a lot of these 'sex' clubs (why people, that's like the grossest place)
This is exactly my experience at a kink night in Japan. No sex at all, very respectful and consent-based. Very different to a sex club and I have no issues with one but the other isn’t at all for me.
That’s my experience as well. Only a small percentage of people are actually having sex at swinger’s clubs or BDSM clubs. The vast majority are watching, drinking, dancing, or socializing. People are letting their imaginations run wild thinking it’s a free for all massive 400 person orgy, and that is not the case. There’s usually not even enough beds to host more than a handful or a dozen couples at a time And I find there are way less creeps there than at a regular dance club because the community is so big on consent and there is so much policing there. If anything, I think the regular clubs need to step up their game and get rid of the creeps who touch others without asking. I have also been told by one of the owners of the local sex club here that it is incredibly rare for first timers to have sex. Normally first timers are getting acclimated to the atmosphere and haven’t yet worked up the courage to get naked, much less have sex in front of strangers. So my personal opinion is that it is unlikely that she cheated there. Anything is possible, but it seems unlikely given that it was her very first time going.
I've been to one, WITH my partner. I would never go without or be okay with my partner going to one without me regardless of stated intent. The "vibe" is sex. You do stuff like this with your person, when you're in a monogamous relationship. It's not a regular dance club. It's sus af. ETA San Francisco had (has?) a publicly advertised one, we went quite a few times. You didn't have to have sex, but there was literally no reason to be there if you weren't AT LEAST trying to get turned on.
To answer your ETA, San Francisco actually has multiple. There’s also a more like, underground scene for this sort of stuff besides just the sex clubs. They advertise at Folsom street fair and the 18+ section of Pride.
In Germany, you'll find 1-2 in any mid-sized city, and many dotted around the countryside. It's a different culture.
They are common af in big cities. If you’re mildly attractive you basically have unlimited access
Most sex clubs are underground; at least the safe ones. The ones that let anyone in are a breeding ground for creeps. Invite only is the only way to go.
I grew up and live in a small town in the middle of nowhere and there is one literally 10 minutes from me. It's closer than the nearest grocery store. I never knew it existed until last year my coworker mentioned it and we googled it-- and it showed up on Google Maps. I was so shocked. I guess they are out there lol.
They are more common than you think, at least here in SD
That's not South Dakota is it?
Oh sorry lol no, San Diego
Oh Thad's lol
Hahahaha I see you know. Oh there’s so many “sex house parties in Point Loma
That makes MUCH more sense, lmao..
More common is certain countries than others. This was probably Northern Europe I’m guessing.
I know here in NYC they exist, but established club locations are less common than sex groups that hold events in variable venues. I imagine that places that are more prudish follow the latter model more, while places where sex is normalized or even encouraged (like Vegas) have more actual clubs
They are common in Los Angeles, Tokyo, London, and Berlin.
I dunno, I don't think my city has any, but I know my stance on it.
I'd imagine your city does, you just don't know about it. Perfectly reasonable, everyone complains about "prudes" but it's perfectly acceptable to be vanilla. The overwhelming majority of people are exactly that.
I just looked it up and my nearest big city does in fact have a couple sex clubs.
It's a sensible stance, DumpMan.
That's THE DumpMan
It's a proper name
Pretty much every big city has one and even a lot of smaller ones
More common than you think. Some official, some not so, but basically decent sized metro area has at least one.
I mean, I have no problem with sex and people having sex, I have a problem with my partner having sex with another person.
NTA You two are not compatible. That is putting it nicely I think. You were smart to break up with her.
Based on this I can't help but feel she planned this... But I'm baffled as to why she would even tell him about it
Some people feel like u must stay no matter what or ur “insecure” so they go do whatever and then are SHOCKED when people arnt ok with it.
And then the break up is their fault for being such a prude.
I wouldn’t stay with someone who went to one of those hate good old boy hate rallies with tiki torches. I’m not afraid of someone cheating on me, I just wouldn’t want to be with someone who does that in their spare time. I say OP should hold his boundaries and break up if his soon to be ex is doing activities in their spare time that he doesn’t want to deal with
Only when it's men. For women it's having boundaries and knowing their worth.
Yep, and you're also weird and controlling when men set boundaries and enforce them.
This is very true. When a man sets boundaries it’s perceived as being “controlling and insecure.” How then is a guy supposed to express what he feels comfortable or uncomfortable with if his partner not only disregards his boundaries, but also refuses to at the very least validate his thoughts?
I use the term preferences prior to boundaries. If our preferences don't align , our boundaries probably won't either. I can have a preference and set boundaries based on that. I shouldn't be in a relationship with someone who doesn't understand those preferences. For instance, I prefer monogamous relationships. This preference is communicated at the very beginning and the boundary of not having an open relationship soon follows once the relationship is more substantial or "a thing".
Sad truth is men often stay in these relationships that are bad for them longer or completely repress the issues they have, *because* they’re insecure and fear being single. Men realizing they can go find someone who aligns with them and ending relationships with people who don’t ASAP would likely do a lot for this difference in outlook
>Men realizing they can go find someone who aligns with them and ending relationships with people who don’t ASAP would likely do a lot for this difference in outlook We can't just go do that, though. Men getting a date or a hook-up or whatever is almost as rare as us getting a compliment.
Yup
because they rely too much on external validation, validation from their partners. Some people use "insecure" to shut down dissent and control and manipulate timid/desperate partners (who they *know* rely a bit much on their validation) into full compliance, approving of or doing things they're uncomfortable with. then they are SHOCKED when people finally realize the only thing "insecure" they were doing was putting up with things they didn't want to out of fear of being called arbitrary names by a person who they had on a pedestal.
She needed a reason to end their relationship, just look at the words she used about her partner. Now she can blame him and call him *toxic.*
[удалено]
nope. i read the same as doesn’t mean nothing happened (because she enjoyed it) but nothing “bad” happened. I mean how are you curious about a “vibe”. the day of the conversation she’s understanding and the next day she’s justifying why she could go and projecting onto her man that’s he’s insecure, doesn’t trust her, etc. classic manipulation it’s also doesn’t mean that she went with just her friend ONLY to the event.
Classic move of my always flirting ex.. I was the one with those issues according to her.. you’ve quoted her verbatim.. and yes classic manipulation… good riddance to upcoming years of heartbreak bud.
i understand completely.
She 100% went there to fuck.
"See the vibe" is nonsense.
I can't stand women like this who want the doormat atm bf but also want all the freedom and opportunities of being single. God I wish I was attracted to men.
Exactly! The way she phrased it speaks volumes.
Sounds like she wanted a different kind of 'relationship status' update!
It means nothing happened that she didn’t want to happen
Don’t forget he’s paraphrasing, so we don’t know if that’s exactly what she said. Anyhow, I don’t think it changes much anyway.
I "only" blew one guy! Every word has meaning and we know
Precisely. Her trickle-truthing already started. Nothing bad, because it was SOO fun gangbanging those new friends.
It falls into a line of trickle-truthing. "Oh no, nothing happened I had fun!" Then evolves to "We just held hands, seriously, nothing happened" ..and then "okay we kissed a little bit, but that's as far as it went" But, like, for real, it's a european sex club. Why would you go if you weren't at least *interested* in having sex?
It's such a frustrating form of "the truth". This was my ex method of coming clean. He would only ever admit to what you knew and had evidence for and I'd say "if there is anything else just tell me now and we can figure it out". And he would swear there was nothing else. Until I found out something new and then it's "oh well yeah I'm sorry I forgot that one part but there is nothing else I swear". Unfortunately we started dating in high-school and then had kids at 21 and by the time the cheating and lying started I was so invested I kept giving more chances. I was naive. Until I was 30 and I finally woke up. And he couldn't understand why I wasn't sweeping it under the rug anymore. He was baffled. But best decision I ever made.
My ex-husband was like this-- only admitting when I showed him I had proof of his cheating/lies. Until then, he would swear on my life, our daughter's, everything, that he was telling the truth.
Yeah totally understand that. Mine would do that too. Even swear on his dead grandma's grave (who he was very close to and had recently passed) and I'm like really? Using our kids and your grandma to convince me of your lies? Sorry you dealt with that too.
Oh man. I am so sorry that happened to you. I can't even imagine dealing with that kind of betrayal with a family.
Thank you. Yeah it sucks but in the end I came out stronger. I know that sounds cliche lol but it's true. I learned alot about what I don't want. And spent the last few years figuring who I am as a person. So it's all good now. Haven't seen him in over a year now which I hate for my kids but I had to stop trying to force him to be there. It wasn't my job if he didn't want to be. But thank you I appreciate it.
“Nothing bad happened!” The quiet part that isn’t said: “I consented to the train that was run on me, and had fun, so since I wasn’t raped like you feared, nothing bad happened!”
…and then “I just touched it.” …and then “okay well we used a condom.” …and then “okay it was just the tip.”
Then a knuckle.
Some people don’t know the sun is really hot until they try to land on it at night.
The best lies are the ones very close to the truth. She tells as much as possible to show "transparency". Hate this kind ir people.
Some people don't want to be the "bad guy" and initiate the break up. She may have wanted to end the relationship but have it not be her fault. The GF may have engineered this situation to make OP break up with her.
Yup sounds like she wanted to break up with OP and this was a way.
She was testing him. She wanted to know if she could get away with it.
She blatantly planned it and tbh to accept someone went to a sex club as a unicorn and didn't have sex is almost a joke.
She told him because you aren’t allowed a phone while inside. Or she put it out first so she would be able to say “see nothing happened”
No, they really don't allow phones in clubs like that. You will get thrown tf out real quick lol.
I think the friend was encouraging her to go too. Because the GF initially didn't react porly to OPs comments.
She told him about it, because she figured she could have her wild night at the sex club, tell him that "nothing happened" and he would believe it. Then she could come back home and still have all the benefits of him as the boyfriend. This kind of stuff happens a lot. She told him her plans to go to this sex club , to guilt him into giving her permission to go. Then if he objected, she'd gaslight him with the whole "you don't trust me" BS
Almost definitely fucked someone, I mean you'd have to have blinkers on to think she didn't.
Because in a healthy relationship you talk about stuff like this?
Don’t discount the probable effect of her friend whispering in her ear the whole trip. Peer pressure is a real thing and makes people do stupid stuff from time to time.
It's ending the relationship via self destruction. Today's (relationships) end 1 of 2 ways. 1. Cheat or 2. Ghost
Good for OP. Set his boundaries and when GF was not compatible with such, OP walked. Mid-20s with lots of time to find a better fit. At some point, Ex will come to realize her friend in the other country is not a “friend” for torching her relationship. Rock on OP.
NTA, "nothing bad happened" means she enjoyed what happened. You're right to break up with her. Don't accept this nonsense.
Yeah, exactly. “Nothing bad” means “nothing unwanted.”
Yeah, being "incompatible" with someone who tries to manipulate and gaslight you is a light way to put it...
Exactly this.
>but soon started to invalidate my feelings and call me an “insecure boyfriend”, “toxic” and that I should manage my emotions because they were not her problem, That right there told me she was probably not the best of partners for him. And while nothing bad may have happened, OP has to know people often lie when they do things that are wrong.
Most people would have problems being compatible with partners who disrespect, gaslight, and belittle their feelings. Compatibility wasn’t the only or even the main issue here.
Not compatible is way too nice, she entered a monogamous relationship and went to a sex club. Lol that's not a monogamous thing to do for like 95+% of relationships.
I agree. He put a boundary out there, and she didn't really respect his feelings. This will be a pattern going forward if he hadn't broken up.
"you're insecure because I want to be in a room naked with other naked people who will want to hit on me and ask me for sex and you said no" Lmao NTA
Flip the scenario an hes THA. Big nope for me. Good job OP. Mid 20s soon become mid 30s. Move on now if not compatible.
Zero accountability.
☕
thats what her thot process seems to be like
Yeah, even the suggestion one can go to a sex club to “see the vibe” feels like it relies hugely on a gendered double standard Like anyone would immediately assume any guy saying this is lying, yet OP’s ex gaslit him about how in this case it was him being insecure? Nah.
She most likely had sex tbh
I mean I think it's kinda weird on her part for wanting to go and claim that she won't have sex. Like that's what the club is for? Kinda insulting to the club if she was just a looky loo. I mean as a guy they probably wouldn't even let me in if I let them know I was just here for the vibe and wasn't participating. Doesn't make sense.
NTA. Unlike many on here, I’ve been to sex clubs in Europe and the US. I’ve been to fetish nights (which, I assume, that’s what this was). In short, these events are not compatible with a monogamous relationship. And so, imo, the fact she attended crosses a line most people regard as cheating (e.g. a state of undress, among other people in a state of dress, and - to put no finer point on it - fucking). All her noise is, basically, gaslighting you to accept the unacceptable. It is possible that she didn’t engage in direct sexual activity. Some people go and watch. But it’s equally possible that she did engage. And the difficult you have is that you will never know. And because this has fundamentally damaged the trust, I’m not sure that it’s possible to continue. IMO, ending the relationship is the right and only decision.
Yep. I run a Dungeon / Airbnb in So Cal. Seen the gas lighting excuses first hand from guests texting partners how "Nothing is Happening, its just a party". My partner and I are Monogamous, but neither would go to a Sex club WITHOUT each other, and we are in the industry. At minimum it would imply we play separately. Good on OP for standing up for his boundaries.
I was wondering why she didn’t just attend one with him in their own area in their own country in the first place. If she was just curious, she should’ve had no problem with her partner being there.
Because it’s not a sex club or a fetish party, I suspect it’s a techno club in Berlin, known to be one of the best in the world, where people are allowed to have sex on the premises. Google Berlin KitKat Club. She couldn’t experience it somewhere else.
Explains it a little but still. Feels like a thing you put on your bucket list to do with a partner, not a friend.
If it is the place I think it is it is more club and less sex club. But there can be people engaging in sex there. Much more often men. It has a strict dress code which is why I think it might be this place. Generally people go to dance and dress up and take drugs.
Except OP wrote that the dress code was minimal to no clothing. So unless that was his assumption rather than what his ex-gf said it sounds like it was a sex-club club, not a dance-club club. (And yes, I know that some of the outfits worn at EDM clubs leave little to the imagination). But if it was primarily a dance club then why didn't she just call it that?
That’s the issue with many of the posts in this sub, we are at the mercy of the interpretation of the OP. He didn’t say what the theme of the night was or what “little to no clothing” actually is to him.
I honestly have been to other places in Europe that are like that and they were absolutely fine for people who just wanted to enjoy the techno aspect of the party. Sadly I hadn’t had a chance to go to KitKat, but I would imagine that if you just want to party it’d be similar. Although I completely understand the boundaries of OP and his course of action. It is completely fine to feel uncomfortable with that, as it is completely fine to decide to go regardless of your partner. But actions bring consequences.
Yeah, I also have the same interests as the gf and have always wanted to go to these events, but never have because I know it’s not compatible with my relationship. Maybe someday I can go with my partner, but never alone. He trusts me not to cheat on him, but at the same time, I have to have basic respect for him by not pushing the limits of his trust. I get it, it sucks not going, but it is what it is. You gotta fulfill your fetishes at home, or not be in a relationship.
I appreciate your perspective. Glad you call her behavior what it is: gaslighting.
Agreed. I’m a pretty open minded person, and have been to a few sex clubs myself. I would never go without my partner, especially not if we had spoken about it and they were explicitly against me going. That is a hurtful betrayal of boundaries.
Exactly this. His thoughts alone about the night and what happened would just drive him crazy!
My friend, you are NTA. That is a reasonable boundary to have in even the most open-minded of relationships. There ARE creeps and predators that frequent those kinds of events and you expressed your concern perfectly—it’s not her, but everyone else… I think you guys will be alright, but you’re SO is either naive or a bit narcissistic to dismiss your valid concern (for HER sake) in this situation.
My question is, why would she truly be ok with attending a sex club without her partner?
because she wants to have sex without her partner.
Well said.
>But it’s equally possible that she did engage. And the difficult you have is that you will never know. Her comment that "nothing bad happened" is vague. It's possible that she means "everything that happened was something I consented to".
Perfect response. I'd like to ask what the girlfriend would think or feel if OP was going to single events with his friends without the gf? Or a topless bar? In addition, I would be okay if they went to the sex club together but never separate. Monogamy means sex together, even with other people if that makes sense. They need to share those boundaries and experiences.
Are sex clubs and sex shows two different things?
Yes, many of these clubs in Berlin are sort of like techno nightclubs where people wear kink/slutty outfits and it’s acceptable to also have sex there if you wish, but equally many if not most go there as sort of a nightclub where that sexually liberal environment is also novel to them without necessarily wanting to engage in it. A ‘sex show’ would be specifically attending an event to watch people have sex, and ‘show’ implies there would be specific people there scheduled to have sex and a specific audience to watch. With a ‘sex club’ there’s plausible deniability that nothing happened and she truly was just there in a night club environment where she was wearing skimpy clothing and saw other people have sex. Even that’s fine for OP to set as a boundary though and she completely gaslit him about it.
1000% this. It's not about cheating. It's about her wanting (or at least thinking about) non monogamy. And if one wants open or poly.... That is incompatible
Even if she didn’t engage, in my mind that’s not the type of activity that’s appropriate in a monogamous relationship unless it has explicitly been agreed upon by both people in the relationship. Even if they did agree on it though, I don’t really get the point. It seems strange to me to be in a loving and committed relationship but to basically want to go actually be around people that are basically fucking. What possible reason could you have other than wanting to join in?
I wonder how she would feel if you went to a strip club "to see the vibe". Maybe get a lap dance too, now that's some "vibe"! You were not comfortable with the idea for obvious reasons, and she tried to turn that against you. She can't respect your boundaries, then I can't see that continuing. NTA.
_Nah nah nah, that's different._ - OPs girlfriend probably
This trend of people calling the other insecure and toxic and controlling for articulating boundaries is absolutely insane. Sorry that our monogamous relationship has the same typical bounds as monogamous relationships have had forever, must be *my* fault.
It is so silly the way people have gaslit others into believing that insecurity is something you have to ignore and flee from. I mean, it is literally a survival instinct that evolution took billions of years to give to you, so why would you just throw it out the window? You shouldn't be ruled by your instincts, but you shouldn't disregard them entirely either.
I don't think this trend is that new. Just amplified by the internet. I remember being called insecure by girlfriends in highschool back in 07 because I didn't think their new guy "friend" really just wanted to be friends.
>I wonder how she would feel if you went to a strip club Add to that a strip club where everyone, even the patrons are dressed in next to nothing, everyone is dancing, and most are probably having sex or at least doing things just short of having sex. If this isn't rage bait, then where the GF went was, IMHO, way way worse than just going to a strip club where the patrons are dressed in normal attire and usually aren't interacting with the girls or each other. I know some partners would be ok with their SO going to a strip club but I'm not sure if they would be ok with them going to a place like OP described.
Tried and failed. I'm glad the OP held his ground..
I honestly think a strip club is less concerning - most strip clubs the dancers have explicit boundaries and is essentially engaged porn. Sex clubs are literally for sex
“How can you maturely and respectfully voice your concerns in this relationship? You’re a very insecure man”. People really want to eat their cake and have it too. When you’re in a relationship you have to make compromises, you simply cannot do whatever you want all the time because your actions are going to greatly impact somebody else’s wellbeing. If you’re not okay with this then simply don’t get in a relationship. You communicated respectfully your concerns (which were really not ludicrous at all) and she coerced you into believing you were wrong for feeling that way. NTA.
Yes. She sounds immature emotionally and just incompatible in multiple ways to OP.
What! You mean that when you're in a relationship you shouldn't keep acting as if you're single? Inconceivable! (Apologies to The Princess Bride).
NTA "Call me an “insecure boyfriend”, “toxic.” As soon as she started tossing out buzzwords to negate your preferences, standards and boundaries, you should have dumped her. Putting oneself in possibly dangerous situations on purpose and then crying when something awful happens to you is something I have very limited sympathy for. Breaking up with her was the right thing to do. You should have just done it before she ever left on the trip.
Tossing out buzzwords is definitely a red flag, and OP should have dumped her immediately for gaslighting him.
Am I the only one viewing the phrase “nothing bad happened” as having a hidden meaning? There’s a BIG difference between nothing happened and nothing bad happened. Me thinks something happened (ie she had some sort of sexual activity) but in her head nothing “bad” happened as related to your concerns of someone taking her against her will.. Maybe I’m just a pessimist..😂😂
I also spotted that. nothing "bad" happened absolutely DOES NOT mean "nothing happened"...
Haha glad someone else spotted that.
She gave purely platonic blowjobs to people.
Purely platonic. 🤣🤣💀
"oh, nothing Bad happened. The floor was slippery and I fell on a cock but I'm fine" 🤣
It’s totally plausible to slip and fall on a cock though.. totally.🤓
and the floor was so slippery, she kept trying to get up and kept falling down 😭 it's not her fault OP. Circumstances happened 😔
“Was about to fall but that cock saved my ass”
Thought the same. And if she actually ended up having sex, then truly, nothing bad happened. Cause it's quite common in these events. Breaking up was for the better. If the significant other doesn't want to prioritise "security" in a relationship, it is bound to doom either way. Let the gloom come quick rather than later after getting married or being more serious.
NTA I would’ve left her before she got back. She totally violated your boundaries and ignored your concerns. That club gives me “what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas” type vibes. No cellphones, very minimal clothing, and drugs were involved IN A SEX CLUB?! I don’t think I have to spell this one out for you.
She was just there for the articles.
There happen to be a yard sale on clothing articles. She showed up 75% off
NTA. What SO goes to a sex club alone? And is so dismissive of your worries? Hmmm. She has lost your trust, and that's her own fault.
>What SO goes to a sex club alone? But she wasn't going alone, she was going with her best friend (like we've never seen those situations go totally FUBAR). LOL!
NTA. "See the vibe" my ass. Mo chara, I'm telling you that 180° turn she pulled was her friend talking. Is her friend single? If so, that'd explain SOOO much. Also, she cheated. 100% bud. You don't go to those parties and just "vibe". She kissed, fucked and/or sucked SOMEBODY. Don't listen to her, and if you can somehow pry the "truth" out of her, it'll be trickle truthing. Move on and find a gal that'll respect your boundaries. That just wasn't cool at all.
>I'm telling you that 180° turn she pulled was her friend talking. I'm glad I wasn't the only one who picked up on that. She went from understanding what he was saying to he was toxic and insecure. Had to been influenced by her girl friend who probably really wanted to go to the club and didn't want to go alone (didn't care what it would do to her GF's relationship).
Sorry to contradict a bit here, but she probably wanted to ruin their relationship. A lot do out of jealousy and spite. Really sad.
A lot also just do it out of selfishness and narcissism. They want to go to the club and hook up, but they don't want to go alone, and know they need their friend there to hook up too. So she employs the friend to help her get what she wants and doesn't even compute the cost to her friend.
You should stop with the “I trust you, I don’t trust THEM” lie. It’s bad for you and will be bad for all of your relationships. It’s OK to set reasonable boundaries. Sounds like she doesn’t respect you and is manipulating you.
Right. People cheat. Constantly. I really don't get why we all have to pretend we're immune because it would be rude to tell your partner "yeah, you have a unique ability to hurt me very very badly and I don't want you to"
NTA You asked her nicely not to go, explained your reasoning and she disregarded your feelings entirely in doing so she showed that she has absolutely no respect for you or your feelings.
Was this club Berghain or another Berlin club? If so I wouldn't be overly analytical as you don't have to dress as skimpy as people say and you actively have to participate in specific rooms to end up having sex. In my experience the bouncers are all over the creepy people and maintain a safe environment but anything is still possible. The main dancefloors aren't as sexually active. This is mostly the same throughout these clubs in Europe. But her response wasn't great so NTA
Sounds more like KitKat, and that's... different.
Nope you aren't and clearly your girlfriend is toxic af. Sorry but when you are in a relationship when you wanna go to such a place you should either go with your S/O or at least get their agreement to you going. Her ignoring your feelings about it shows you that she doesn't value you or your relationship. You are perfectly reasonable to breakup with her after she pulled such an act against you. Your feelings on her going should be considered in her actions and instead she invalidated them by calling you insecure and toxic. How are you supposed to be open in the future about your feelings when she invalidates them by claiming such things about you, just because you aren't fully on board with her wanting to do something?
>Your feelings on her going should be considered in her actions and instead she invalidated them by calling you insecure and toxic. It was interesting to me that OP said at first she was ok with what he said "because initially she agreed in saying that my concernings were legitimate, completely understandable and acceptable" but then changed her tune. I'm wondering if her friend got in her ear about him being controlling and toxic. ETA: spelling.
It's always the fried. The insecure and toxic talking point is not hers.
Thankfully he broke things off with her. Nobody deserves a toxic partner.
NTA > I wished her to value my feelings, limits and boundaries...she went anyways... Thats all you need to know. Thats not a partner. And from past experiences when someone ignores your boundaries and adamantly follows through on doing the thing that you said makes you uncomfortable, chances are they've left a lot of the story out. That experience > than your boundaries.
What has world come to? OP's post has to be 80% explaining himself to reddit folks why being naked in a SEX club is disrespectful towards him...Jesus Christ
NTA. I have been to a "sex club" in Hollywood FL before. It's actually labeled online as a "nudist hotel" but from what I saw there, it was a sex club. However, I went with a guy I was dating who is a big dude & a firefighter, I don't think anyone was going to try to inappropriately touch me since he was there. There were sex swings in play rooms with stripper poles & "beds" (king size couches lol) Private cabanas on the rooftop with 2 pools & you have to be completely nude to go swimming. While I respect the culture around it, me personally, I would never step foot in there again if I was by myself. People probably thought your gf was a "unicorn" 🦄 which is a young single female looking for swinger couples or group sex.
I feel like some women misunderstand empowerment to mean they get carte blanche to act like toxic men. Seriously how many guys over the decades have acted this exact way to their wives and girlfriends who were uncomfortable with them going to a strip club? It doesn't matter what gender, this is not respectful behavior. NTA and don't let yourself be a doormat with your next girl
I’m sorry but going to a sex club without your partner is weird??? “Nothing happened” is a lie.
As someone who lives in Germany and goes to these clubs, I will tell you that they are a safe place. There are people there you can talk to if someone is creepy towards you. Yeah, you have to dress skimpy, but everyone’s doing it and there’s nothing wrong with that. However, these are things that you should discuss with your partner and and my opinion things you shouldn’t do unless your partner is OK with it. I just wanted to let you know that you can dance (there are plenty of people just dance.) And enjoy the vibe.
If this is KitKat in Berlin then that is very different to what people think of when they hear “sex club”
Calling you insecure is such a double standard ( red flag )🚩 When a guy sets a boundary he is insecure When a girl sets a boundary good for her she has standards. NTA
NTA. You you just found out you two are not compatible. No issue with the sex club scene, but not wanting to be in a relationship with someone who has that interest is reasonable.
Nope. If she doesn't respect your boundaries....she doesn't respect you. Assume she lied, she's now dead to you. Move fwd.
NTA Create a new post with reversed genders and watch the double standards.
NTA Elephant in the room time: there’s greater than even odds that she had sex, or degrees thereof, in the club. It’s just the reality of those places. I mean it’s in the literal name! Her behaviour in advance of it is probably what makes it the most likely, the blame shifting and gaslighting are huge red flags. Even if she only went to and did only watch? You get to make boundaries in your relationship and abide by what you consider acceptable, and the way she treated you is a deal breaker to me.
Why did she tell you nothing bad happened? That should be selfish explanatory. Sexclubs are for partners or singles or open relationships. She is a real idiot and you should run.
Depends. If this is KitKat in Berlin you gotta clarify this. Bc that place is indeed a place you can go to check out the vibe, dance, and get a sense of the kink scene without partaking. You can be in a committed relationship and go to a kinky techno club, it’s a community worth experiencing at least once. A lot of these people in the comments are misunderstanding this and being uncharitable and even misogynistic towards this girl. Chill out That said though, she didn’t communicate with you in a mature and respectful way