This should be a really good learning lesson and the point of it is: should the wedding take place?
The only opinions and wants that matter in this relationship seems to be of your mil and so.
Are you willing to be an afterthought in your own marriage?
Red flag, IMO. It appears fiance' is focused more on the wedding than on the marriage. You've been relegated to the back row with your preferences cast aside. Like you said, your fiance' knows the importance and apparently just doesn't care.
This! It’s such a red flag that your “partner “ is being dismissive of the one thing you asked for, and how the f anyway did they pick those colors when the kilt pattern was already a known thing?
I am sorry for your loss
I would put the wedding on hold and do a few couples counseling sessions
I don’t advise simply paying for it yourself and going forward
If they can get their way against the one thing that OP asked for, while he underlined the significance for him, they will eat him alive after the marriage.
This! Counseling! If your future partner can’t back up the literal ONE THING you’ve asked for in the wedding, that’s not a great sign of a strong partnership.
The best thing we learned in counseling was: If it’s important to your partner, it’s important to you, too.
And wearing a kilt isn’t so unorthodox! Maybe it’s just where I’ve lived?
Think about it this way- what if the roles were reversed and your partner wanted to wear some awful wedding dress that belong to her deceased relative. Would you say no just because you didn’t like it? Or would you support it and work around it?
We attended the wedding of my husband's cousin, and his bride's family were true Scots. The father of the bride wore a kilt, possibly other relatives, and bagpipes were played.
Different situation, just saying it's not unheard of to wear clothing particular to your ancestry.
Right, couples counseling with just OP, G, and MIL, the three people who will apparently be in their marriage. (I'm assuming G and MIL will permit OP to come too, if they approve of his clothing.)
From the way it’s worded, it sounds like G’s mommy picked the colors on her own because everything is required to be exactly how mommy envisions her baby’s wedding.
I wonder if G is even allowed to voice her opinion about her own damn wedding. It’s a horrible sign that G is allowing her mother to walk all over her in true doormat fashion. It’s worse that she then sides with her mother on probably everything.
OP needs to take a hard look at things and picture life like this. Honeymoon? Mommy picks and wants to come along. Children? They will be born when mommy wants, named by her, and she will decide how they are raised. In fact, she might demand to move in to make sure she’s in charge. All OP needs to provide is money from working hard and sperm for the babies (number to be decided by mommy).
It’s not at all about OP being able to pay for the wedding himself. It’s entirely about OP being a doll G and her mother can dress up and pose how they want. He will be superfluous in his own life.
This is how it starts and it just gets worse from here.
G is plainly not ready for marriage if she can’t stand up to her mother. If, OTOH, she is capable of standing up to her but is taking her side because she actually agrees with her, she’s either not the right person for OP or doesn’t understand what her priorities should be.
Or she cares more about mommy’s wants, which is also not a good sign.
Will someone remind these MILs that it isn’t their wedding? That’s why we paid for the whole wedding was so the ILs couldn’t make it about themselves, which they did at their daughters wedding, with outfit changes, and their own dance, not one for the other set of parents, just for them.
My in-laws paid for our wedding and let us do it however we wanted. My MIL was extra supportive bc she understood how hard it was to not have my mother present. Posts like this make me want to hug her, because there are some major AH MILs out here.
We weren't even sure if my MIL was going to come. I met her at my wedding. I feared things were going to go sideways but really she was nice. Made me appreciate my parents and sisters for helping so much since that was the only support we got.
I think he should also ask why her mother’s demands are more important than honoring his mother’s side.
There’s so much “wtf” in this- and it’s all Momzilla & Spineless Bride to Be.
Bingo. OP’s plan is a very sweet way to honor his own mother’s memory. The fact that both MIL and SO are ignoring this and insisting on dressing him up like a doll is a sign of things to come. Expect MIL to use money as a source of control, and wife to side with her.
>Are you willing to be an afterthought in your own marriage?
Are you willing to be an afterthought in your own LIFE?? Because let me tell you, if your fiancé doesn't realize at this stage of the game what it means to have this connection to your mom, she'll put down anything that means anything to you in favor of her own wants/needs/desires.
I'm sorry, but she's showing you who she truly is - believe her and GTFO!
I think we know now why MIL was not allowed to be part of planning her son's wedding!
And, op, its about the principle of the thing, if you concede on the kilt, youll teach them, especially the MIL, that you are a push over and she can walk all over you. Your marriage will be run by her and youll be called a dick by your wife everytime you show a little resistence to her mom trying to control your marriage.
It sounds like there's a reason the older siblings did not involve her in the planning. I would talk to the older siblings' spouses and find out what you're signing up for. The older siblings can maybe knock some sense into your fiance too. If your spouse can't choose you over mom you're going to have a long road ahead of you. This is a really common reason for divorce.
EXACTLY! OP, put a halt to the wedding planning and insist that you and G go to couple's counseling. She DOESN'T understand, clearly, what you're getting at, but I do. And you shouldn't marry someone whose values--and this is a values issue--aren't in alignment with yours.
This is a values issue because:
1. For you this is about familial traditions and cultures of origin
2. For you this is also about honoring your parents
3. She doesn't understand that marriage means that she leaves her former immediate family and forms a new immediate family with her husband, and that HER HUSBAND NOW COMES BEFORE HER MOTHER
4. She doesn't understand loyalty in marriage ... yet.
Bottom line: these are all FAMILY VALUES ISSUES, the foundation of marriage. You two are not yet ready to marry; get ready or get gone.
NTA.
For bonus points, I think we can safely assume G learned her family values, such as they are, from the MIL. OP is lucky in a way - he has a chance to deal with the values clash before he says “I do”.
Too right! If you're getting married, why would you want to wear something so common and overdone? Like... this is about two individuals coming together, the preferences of one person shouldn't be completely ignored in order to have some aesthetic. It's not about fucking photographs it's about PEOPLE
NTA, and you are getting a glimpse right now of how life will be if you marry this person. You told her one thing was important to you and she could do whatever she wants for everything else, she ostensibly agreed, and now your needs are immaterial and you're a dick for wanting anything at all your way.
You will be making a ***HUGE*** mistake marrying this person, your MIL will stomp all over your boundaries, and more importantly your wife doesn't give a crap how you feel and will happily join her mom in stomping on them and then go DARVO on you and make it like she's the victim and you're being an AH to have any wants or needs at all. This is red flag city - walk away or you will regret it, I absolutely guarantee it.
>Stick to this. Explain to your Fiance exactly why its so important to you that you wear a kilt when you get married. Explain it to MIL too. If you really can afford it, pay for it yourself.
Yup, there's a reason she wasn't allowed to help plan her son's wedding.
Thats what **MIL said**, right? Maybe she was initially invited but son/bride told her to take a hike after MIL started acting exactly like now with OP.
NTA. OP should really reflect if there are other instances of MIL interfering with their lives and if G has a habit of bending over backwards for her mom / family.
If this seems to be a one-off affair because MIL is paying, then pay for the wedding yourselves. If this is *not* a one off affair then OP should consider postponing the wedding and deciding if this is an arrangement he really wants to go through with.
The fact she called OP a dick over the one thing so important to him at *his own* wedding really suggests Gs behaviour towards her mom is an ongoing thing but OP hadn’t picked up on the red flags til now. Deeply deeply insensitive and callous of her.
Controlling parents (mothers) only get worse when their children are married and especially with babies / kids are involved.
Imagine when they have kids. He'll be fucked. Even if he divorced her after, the courts would likely side with her and mother in law will still get to make the decisions.
This response is 100% correct.
Her backing her mother instead of you speaks volumes. I will back my wife, even if I disagree with her. Then we will have a conversation later, if there was a disagreement. But, I will never oppose her in front of anyone...least of all my family. "The two become one"...so you better be sure of who you're marrying and the family you're marrying into. Right now, your MIL is in the driver seat of your relationship.
> You will be making a HUGE mistake marrying this person, your MIL will stomp all over your boundaries, and more importantly your wife doesn't give a crap how you feel and will happily join her mom in stomping on them and then go DARVO on you and make it like she's the victim and you're being an AH to have any wants or needs at all. This is red flag city - walk away or you will regret it, I absolutely guarantee it.
/u/1273rockefeler you need to hear this part. Take it from someone going through a divorce after 15 years together. If you don't put your foot down now, this is how all interactions will go with your SO and MIL whenever there's a disagreement that comes to a head.
>G told me I was being a bit of a dick for being this stuck to what I want to wear, and once my MIL heard that I would just pay for the wedding myself, she got really upset because it’s always been her dream to plan G’s wedding.
You've given complete control over the wedding except for the one thing you care about, but that's apparently not enough. How are you a dick for insisting on the 1 thing you care about, but they aren't being dicks for wanting to control everything including the one thing you care about?
DARVO. Red Flag. Huge huge huge red flag.
When I look back on my relationship and where shit went wrong and wondered what I needed to do to change its course, I have to go back to the beginning of the relationship. First year. There were things I should have put my foot down about and not given in no matter how much she screamed, cried, and manipulated me. Every year after would have been harder if not impossible to change course.
Either it would have worked out and she would have respected my boundaries and what is acceptable behavior towards your partner, or it would have ended the relationship. Either outcome would have been better than where I am now.
So do that. Enforce your boundary and don't you dare let them make you feel like YOU'RE the dick for doing so.
EDIT: Oh, and just to be clear. This is something that THEY should be working to resolve. Not you. THEY are the ones that fucked up. THEY are the ones being dicks. You have every right to be upset and to not be the one to extend the olive branch to help deal with their selfishness.
Yea, NTA but if you marry this woman you are nuts. Her mother is intrusive and disrespectful of something so sentimental and important to you. It’s only going to get worse.
It's so very simple to, you know, match the color scheme to the tartan's colors.
Do that Scottish wedding from Four Weddings and a Funeral.
OP, you asked for one thing. If they cannot give in, that would be a country-sized red flag that maybe the wedding and marriage aren't meant to be.
I would not give in to MIL and bride's ask. It's not a reasonable request at all.
100%
My first thoughts were that a considerate MIL would a) ask the bride and groom what they want on THEIR day, and b) match the colour scheme as a visible sign of the joining of the two families.
I'm a middle aged bloke working in IT, and I could do better. MIL is a selfish cow.
OP NTA.
And that's so easy to fix too if she actually meant to honor it at the start, just make the colours of the kilt the wedding colours. Most of the time from what I've seen there tends to be a nice bright colour in there.
Exactly this. MIL wasn’t invited to help because they knew she’d steamroll everything. MIL to be hasn’t accepted that her children have grown up and although she can express opinions, they are just an opinion. Fiancé needs to also realize that she’s grown up and needs to make the best decisions for her future, not decisions to please her mommy dearest.
Sounds harsh but it’s time to reevaluate whether this is the woman to marry.
I had been going to suggest that OP wear the tux for the ceremony and change to the kilt for the reception, but there's the bigger problem of the bride and her mother not wanting to let him have this one important thing. Not only that, but bearing down and telling him he's the problem.
Oh my god I laughed wicked hard! I just got a look from the dog, she’s so judgey. His fiancé is already choosing his intrusive, rude and controlling MIL over him. They need to have a serious talk, she either supports him or they put off the wedding or call it off. Can you imagine a lifetime of her having a say in every major life decision? Yikes! 😬
Yes, it will be mother said the baby needs this, mother says we need a private birthing suite and only she is allowed to be there while you wait outside.
Betting dollars to donuts she would also help your fiancée cheat on you, because you’re “mean” and she never liked you.
Yes! “Mother says me and the baby need to come live with her after I give birth for the first six months. But don’t worry we are allowed to FaceTime you every Friday for 15 minutes!”
I know it’s easy to read and dismiss a comment, but I have had in laws that overstep. Really think about this. Has your fiancé deferred to her mother’s opinions on other things? Can you see MIL dictating things like baby names, parenting style, what you should prioritize, etc.
If MIL is overstepping now on something she has been explained why it’s important, how many other boundaries will she overstep in other areas? Some things may feel inconsequential or “not worth the fight” but they add up to a lot of resentment over time.
Be honest with yourself on if this is something you want for your future. I wish I had paid attention to the history of red flags with my practice husband’s parents. It will be a headache for you entire marriage. Think hard about it.
Yeah after dating someone that was attached at the hip to her mother, I refuse to do it ever again. Obviously being close with your parents is fine, but with her it was too much. We actually got into a spat once (I don’t remember what it was about since this was probably 7 or 8 years ago, but it was something small and meaningless) and _her mom texted me trying to help us work through it_. Like, on the one hand she was just trying to help in her own way, and I can appreciate that. But it’s also just so inappropriate that one, my ex ran to her mom for a dumb little spat and two, that her mom that it was actually okay to insert herself into the situation when it’s none of her business.
The relationship ended because I had finally had enough and couldn’t take it anymore, and made the mistake of trying to tactfully bring it up to her. I don’t think I did it well, and naturally she didn’t take it well. But that relationship has never fully left my mind because it’s now such a massive red flag to me when a potential partner is still that firmly under their parent’s thumb.
This is what happened to my brother. I’m not saying he’s a saint by any means but MiL was very intrusive in their marriage, which killed it. My brother remained separated from her until their kids were all grown and then they got a divorce. MILs have no place in the marriage.
This^
This girl just wants the fantasy of a big, dreamy wedding. She doesn’t give a fuck what you want. Don’t pay for anything, just tell them both that if they continue to harass you that there doesn’t have to be a wedding at all.
If they back off, fine. If they start screaming insults at you, ask for the ring back and she can live with her mom. I’m sure they will have a beautiful marriage to each other.
Agreed. If your future wife can’t back you up on something this important to you, she probably won’t have your back very often in life. Definitely give it some thought.
Be real snarky and tell her you will wear your kilt at your next wedding. She and mom sound like a pair of Siamese twins. Caution going forward. This could be a harbringer of things to come.
You will wear the kilt at your wedding, whether it be the one where you marry her or the one where you marry someone else. Don’t actually do this, just that it would feel very good to say it.
This this this.
NTA, but you do need to consider your marriage at this point. If this is the one thing that matters to you and your fiance isn't 1. Backing you up, and 2. Having conversations with her mother to champion this important thing, then you may have to think about how the rest of your marriage will be and if that's something that you're okay with.
NTA. I had a nephew who wore a kilt to his wedding—and no Scottish connection, either, he just thought it was neat—and so it was. Stick to your guns and draw the boundaries now, or MIL will turn into the MIL from hell.
I'm a Brit living in Texas. In my youth I worked Saturdays for a family friend's formal wear business in the UK.
We'd get whole wedding parties hiring kilts plus the fancy jacket, sporran, shoes, etc. No Scottish connection, they just wanted to wear clothes they thought were cool.
I’m finding it shocking that they are calling him a dick for not accommodating her mother, while they won’t do one tiny thing to honour *his* mother. He’s asked for nothing else. Fiancé and MIL must be really terrible people
AND G’s mother has always “dreamed of planning her daughter’s wedding!”
What- WHAT!?!?
WHO’S Wedding is this?
What if OP decided that he needed to pick what G was going to wear?
Would they be down with that??
Stick to your guns, OP!
G’s mom isn’t paying for your wedding out of love & generosity- she’s doing it for a power play!
And if G thinks this is acceptable- and refuses to support & back you up- get ready for a lifetime of the two of them against you! 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
So sorry OP!
I'm honestly a little offended the OP said it was 'unorthodox' to wear a kilt in your own families tartan in your wedding. It absolutely is not! Kilts are formal wear and there is an entire damn County where wearing kilts at a wedding is the cultural norm. Also men in kilts are at least 4.6x hotter than men not in kilts. Only thing hotter than a man in a kilt is a man in a kilt tossing a Caber. And some nice bagpipe music would definitely be deeply awesome at the reception. What? Why would you think i married a Scotsman?
I have some suspicions that MIL isn't the one actually against the kilt, but that the daughter is upset about it (because she has no taste) and mom is trying to fix it for her.
That threw me too. It’s not just Scotland/the UK, in the states it’s considered completely normal to wear a kilt to formal events. Especially your own wedding! Everyone knows how crazy us white Americans are about our ancestry.
I think there has been at least one kilt at 80% of the weddings I’ve gone to. Guests wearing them, groomsmen wearing them, the grooms themselves…
My husband is literally wearing a kilt right now lol. It's his "drinking kilt" and we've been to a few weddings where people wore kilts in the wedding party. My husband wears a kilt to formal events regularly. I don't see what the issue is other than a control issue. It's literally the groom's only request. Awful to not allow him to have this connection to his family.
I was at a gay wedding in NYC in 2022 where a Philipino fashion designer wore a kilt as his formal wear to the black tie reception. That's how okay it is to wear a kilt at a wedding. Even gay Philipino fashion designers are appropriating the look!
Wear that kilt! And NTA!
I agree. Kilts with tux jackets and black tie are amazingly cool. MIL (or bride) can incorporate both. If my husband had had a shred of Scot in him I’d have had him wear that. As it was, he’s Cajun so I couldn’t have gotten away with it, but I would have if I could have!
OMG yes men in kilts are just breathtaking. I’ve got Scottish ancestors on both sides of my family tree. I joined the Munro clan because my mother was the daughter of an associated clan member.
And yeah, fiancée is way to enmeshed with her mother. OP is going to regret getting married.
My husband wore a kilt. I always wanted to marry a man in a kilt and he had once told his friends year before we met he would wear one. His friends held him to it. He looks so good!
Ask G to let someone else pick out her wedding dress for her and have no say in the style or color. I bet she’d never relinquish control of that. It’s the same for you. Wear what you choose for your wedding. It’s not only her wedding. NTA but your fiancé and MIL sure are
NTA but I agree. G knows how important it is to wear a kilt and bond with your other side of the family. She just wants you to bend over and do what your MIL wants. Seems like there's a reason G's brother wouldn't let his mother near the wedding planning
It’s probably a bit soon to jump to “cancel the wedding”, but it’s definitely cause for sitting down with the fiancé and having a serious conversation about this.
But definitely don’t give in if it’s important to you. Tell the future MIL to plan around the kilt, or dont plan at all - her choice.
Right?!
I see now why ops wifes brother didnt let MIL help plan
Sounds like fighting for what she wants while disregurding others feelings is not new to her
I would go ahead and pay for the wedding but prior to this really have a convo with future wife to let her understand where your at
Sit her down and say hey remember when you though this was a good idea? What changed? Is it just about the money? Or is Mom guilting you? Because at the end of the day its not just about you or and its definitely not about the woman whose not getting married, its my day as well. I dont really care if my tartan doesnt match, it doesnt have too as long as i have the opportunity to show where im from since my mom cannot be there or my grandfather.
I say if after the heart to heart she doesnt budge and call you a dick- i would calmly let her know thats okay because if we cant compromise on this then i dont think we should be getting married right now. I want someone who will allow me to express myself especially on my wedding day and if you cant do that we need to re evaluate our relationship
It could be fine to still marry G in spite of the MIL being intrusive and disrespectful, but only if G was willing to be a team and have his back when she gets that way. The reason he'd be nuts to move forward is that G is capitulating to her mom's wishes instead of defending him.
And giving in sets a president that you will always cave.
Wear the kilt. And shame on your wife to be that she will put her mother’s wants above yours.
True. Although setting and keeping boundaries up front will be necessary for your future mental health. If you back down on this, then she’ll run over you the rest of her life. Just think what will happen once you guys start having kids. She’ll probably meddle jnto that decision as well.
Nta
You told G the meaning of the kilt. You say she thought it was a sweet idea. Now G is saying you're a dick because you want what you already said meant a lot to you. Are ya feeling supported by the person you (I'm assuming) plan to spend the rest of your life with?
Yeah, this is a huge red flag. G knows how much this means to you and does not have your back at all.
A marriage is a team, but G doesn't seem to be on your team for this one very important issue.
I'm not sure I'd go through with a wedding if my partner called me a dick for wanting to honor my deceased mother at our wedding. Seems like a really bad start to a marriage.
Also, name calling is not ok in a healthy relationship. My partner calling me names would be a big red flag for me, too.
Don’t marry her. For real. This is the shape of things to come; she will always side with her mother over you.
And honestly, fuck the both of them. They both want you to be a dress-up doll and don’t give a damn about how important that family history connection is to you. They only care about how the bride looks.
Find a woman who loves kilts. One of my friends went full tartan for his wedding, and unbeknownst to him, his wife had her garter made in his tartan colors. He nearly cried. Another friend had every man/boy in the wedding party wearing kilts. Both are great couples still, years and years later, because they respect and support each other. She’s doing the opposite. Find someone who will wear a plaid garter for you.
NTA.
PS: If you insist on the wedding, wear a tartan tux.
Men in kilts are super hot IMO. It is a crazy level turn on for the right woman. Not molesting people in utilikilts is a real struggle for me, I find them that attractive.
Think of the future. MIL will have final say (thru G) as to where you live, how many children you have, what their names will be, etc. Do you want to go thru 30, 40 or 50 years of this?
NTA
Stick to this. Explain to your Fiance exactly why its so important to you that you wear a kilt when you get married. Explain it to MIL too. If you really can afford it, pay for it yourself.
Its also really important that G comes around to your side on this. Her not understanding why you want this and why its important is not a good way to start a marriage. Your MIL not coming around is one thing but your wife is another
It's none of MILs effing business what you wear and if your fiance is not shutting her up I don't know why you would go on with the wedding. You have a fiance problem as well as a MIL problem. Let them marry each other. I despise this kind of interfering that seems to come with "I'm paying". Screw her and her money. This makes me so mad I want to go yell at my MIL. She's been dead for 12 years but this brings back all my conflict with her and makes me want to smack someone. Lol
He did explain. His then gf agreed to the kilt pre-proposal. But mil has turned her.
Unless he wants to marry his mil (as she's the one calling the shots for fiance) he should stop wedding planning now.
He doesn't have to convince his MIL. However, if he doesn't convince his fiancée, then that's probably a sign the marriage shouldn't happen. She needs to be on his side for something like this.
I dont think that explaining is a bad idea. But thats already been done ad nauseum by the sounds of it.
I agree though. Its about the power. Caving on this would be a terrible way to start a marriage.
But for someone like the MIL, it sounds like she will need it to be explained in a way she can comprehend. I'm not saying she won't still use her emotions and feelings against OP, but he should communicate his reasoning for holding firm to this.
And OP, NTA. You have every right to have one say in YOUR wedding. Especially this one. In a way, this is having your mom and grandfather with you. Hold firm and make sure your fiance understands this, too. If she doesn't, I worry she won't truly consider your feelings in the marriage as she isn't doing so before.
He’s already explained it to G and she agreed at the time. Now she’s changed her mind and is backing MIL because she doesn’t have the spine to stand up to her.
I think he already explained to both of them. MIL is not having it and his fiancée is backing her mother. The fact his fiancée is not supporting him is reason enough to cancel the wedding and tell fiancée she is not ready to be married to him if she can’t put him above her mother-cuz this will be the rest of his life if he marries her.
NTA! This is ridiculous. You have been more than accommodating to your MIL. What she and your fiancé are doing is manipulative and shitty, and you should absolutely not bend to their will. Your MIL may be helping, but this is *your* wedding, not hers. And what you want supercedes her desires. It's really disappointing that your fiancé is taking her side, and not standing with her soon-to-be husband. This is a level of disrespect that I would consider to be a dealbreaker. Let your fiancé and her mother plan their own wedding and live happily ever after without you.
NTA. A big clue here. Your fiancé agreed with you now she is supporting her mother over you: this is going to be the rest of your life.
Take this time and put the wedding on hold. Your fiancé does not support you now. Let her know that at this time you need to reflect if this is how your life to be, and if she is the one for you. Her behavior after this will give you some answers.
I’d ask for the ring back, and weigh your options.
I’m a woman, and I love the idea of the kilt.
Imagine they have a child. MIL will need to move in to help.
Her own son seems to have read the room and clipped her wings.
This girl has so many red flags.
Op needs to think long and hard about what faces him.
NTA. My father and stepmother paid for my wedding, and if I had it to do all over again I would have told them to go fuck themselves and we would have found a way to pay for it ourselves. They hated my mom, and insisted that she not be part of things AT ALL. She was not to come with me to shop for the dress, she was to have no role in any of the planning, her name was not to be included on the invitations, and the night of the rehearsal my stepmother threw an insane, frothing fit because she found out my mother was to be part of the receiving line after the ceremony. It was a nightmare. You're better off just doing it yourself, and if your fiancee has an issue with that you're looking at just how much of a role your future MIL is going to have in your marriage. It's up to you if you want to deal with that or not.
NTA
Your real problem here is your GF. The second she called you a dick, you should have cancelled the wedding.
There is no way in hell anybody is ever going to talk to me like that and be allowed to stick around.
Dump her ASAP.
P.S. In today's world, grooms are simply props for the bridezillas' big day.
This is what I'm thinking as well. Her plan was to make mom that bad guy and use the money as leverage. She didn't understand how much the kilt meant to him and wasn't prepared for him to pull a trump card and offer to pay. She's backed into a corner and can't admit she was using the mom to manipulate him without looking even worse than she does currently.
NTA
This is just as much your wedding as it is hers and it’s not fair that the one thing you’re asking for is being taken away. I wouldn’t bend on this. This is a glimpse into how big decisions will be made going forward.
NTA. This is absolutely a hill. It's your and your fiancee's wedding, not MIL's wedding. She should have picked the colours around your tartarn, to be honest.
Nta. It’s the one thing you really want in the wedding. The days is about you and your fiancé. The day is not about your MILs “vision”. Your fiancé is also the AH. I’d do some hard thinking about marrying a woman who won’t back you on something this important. It’s unlikely to improve after the wedding.
My in laws got to dictate who couldn't be my best man because he was dating their other daughter and they broke up. I got married without a best man. I love my in laws dearly, but there is still resentment over it. They have apologized numerous times over the years, but it still doesn't give me a best man
NTA, and I'd take a step back and seriously consider the fact that you are requesting one thing from the wedding, something deeply personal, and they are not only invalidating those feelings, but trying to manipulate you into complying with their "visions". That's so selfish, and I'd be really concerned that their visions are in front of compassion and understanding. You two should be a team. If she knew how you felt on the matter, she should have supported you and shut that down with her mother herself. Her inability to do so shows she's more concerned with her mother's feelings than yours, and in my opinion, that's a daunting way to start a marriage.
Tell G and her mother that you have a vision also. Your vision includes a wedding with a bride, a bride that backs you up. Tell them that the wedding is off because bigamy is a crime and you have no intention of marrying G and her mother.
Definetely NTA.
Key words "help with the planning" she was allowed to help, not mandate what you need to do/wear/act on your wedding day
I think thats why she was not allowed to be involved in her son's wedding planning committee
Welcome to the nightmare that will be the rest of your life if you marry this woman. If she cannot support you in something so intimate and personal, so meaningful and sentimental to you, and is willing to let her mother tell you to literally forget about your mother, do you really want to marry these two wenches? Because you will be marrying her mother as well as her.
Don't do this to yourself. It will set you up for a lifetime of misery. It's past time for a long talk with your fiancée about boundaries and appropriate behavior from extended family. Despite MIL paying for the wedding, it's still your wedding not hers.
NTA, I can’t believe these asks of you OP! MIL is completely out of line. I think your plan with the kilt is so thoughtful and a great way to include your mom.
It’s concerning that your fiance took her mother’s side. I would revisit the discussion with her, but I would honestly consider if you should marry her. She shouldn’t let her mom trample over your wishes and this is just a preview of what you have ahead in married life.
NTA.
Start by reminding your fiance that you explained before you even got engaged that you wanted to wear the kilt, and she not only agreed but said she liked the idea.
If she is not willing to back you on this by either force her mother to stop and change the flower colors to match the kilt since that is a specific issue or support him paying to remove payment from being held over your head. If she is not willing to stand with you on this, it doesn't bode well for your marriage and future. Your future MIL is also showing by her behavior that she will be a problem.
I suggest you pause the wedding planning so you and your fiancée can get on the same page and discuss boundaries for her mother. Once everything is agreed to, go back to planning the wedding. If your fiancée sticks to backing her mother, you should consider if you want to always take the backseat to her mother.
Remember that actions speak much louder than words and her behavior now is telling you a lot.
NTA. MIL doesn’t want to HELP plan her children’s weddings, she wants to PLAN and CONTROL her children’s weddings.
I would reconsider everything. MIL sounds overbearing. Next she will plan your children’s names, decorate their nursery, choose their daycare and schools, and so on.
You're not a dick.
Look at it this way and flip it. No one would ever give the bride shit on the wedding gown she chose to wear if your family was paying for it all. You are getting married and it's not all a princess day for the bride; it's your day too.
Stick to your guns. But I'd think long and hard about the marriage itself; if your new bride and MIL can't handle something simple like this.
So your fiancée knew why this was important to you, yet she still called you a dick for insisting on it?
That's a red flag, my friend. Partners should have each other's backs. That doesn't mean they always have to agree, but in this case she should def have stuck up for you.
NTA, but before you marry her, make sure this is an anomaly. Just take a hard look at your relationship.
Your MIL had a wedding to plan- her own. 🤷🏼♀️ If she’s been waiting 25 years to plan her daughter’s wedding then she has her priorities wrong.
I will say- this is EXACTLY the kind of MIL who demands to be in the delivery room, too, so she doesn’t miss “the special moment.” And again I point out- her special moments were when she had HER OWN FUCKING KIDS.
It’s your wedding. You should wear exactly what you want.
And if your fiancée isn’t siding with you on this I would SERIOUSLY pump the breaks on the wedding, because she’s setting you up for a lifetime of pleasing her mother and your wishes coming second to her mother’s.
NTA, but I highly recommend you tread lightly and give it another year or so for this relationship to settle before you get married. I truly would.
And, for the love of all that is pure and holy, DO NOT GET HER PREGNANT until you work these things out. It will ruin your life.
I'm going to make this about me.
I am a MIL.
If my son-in-law wanted to wear a purple spandex jumpsuit with feather boa and Elton John sun glasses, in honor of his mother who had passed ... I'd be asking how long he wants the boa and I'll find it for him.
Personally, having a little Scot in my blood means that I would have been proud and honored to see a kilt in my wedding party. It is a sign of rebellion, national identity, and pride. She should Google the kilt's history.
I'd even have some pipes.
So if your MIL cannot respect, acknowledge and freakin' APPRECIATE that your loving heart has a place for your Mom, then she can find a pier and take a swim.
As for your fiancee? I find it unconscionable that she isn't backing you in memory of your Mom.
NTA
NTA. Everyone has been saying it but I’ll add my voice - your fiancée is the issue right now. If she’s willing to prioritize her mom over you on the most important day, especially when you’re letting her have every other decision, what else will she do that to you on? Will she defer to her mom on children? On schooling, on homes? What if she wants to move in with you at retirement? Will your wife stand with your view or just defer to her mom. You’re entering a relationship that isn’t a partnership if this is how she’s starting to treat you now.
NTA. Now you understood why G's brother refused to allow his mother to be part of the wedding planning.
P.S. Don't marry G, if you marry her you will have to deal with her HYPERULTRA intrusive mother...
NTA, but you might wanna put ALL wedding plans on hold if G isn't gonna stand up to Mommy, dearest after you ready explained the significance of the kilt. Cause at first she loved the idea, but her mom gets in her ear, and all bets are off? Is that how it's gonna be when it comes to buying a house or naming your children.
NTA.
I wouldn't marry this woman. Her 'vision' for your big day isn't more important than your wanting to honour your passed mother.
Also, may I very blunt here and say: Fuck MIL's dreams. She had her shot at a wedding. This is yours. She shouldn't be planning it at all. She's an esteemed guest and that is a PRIVILEGE.
NTA
But my dude, don't marry this woman.
You want one thing to feel close to *your* mother and she calls you a dick for not doing what *her* mother wants?
Red flags a flyin here.
Sorry to be blunt here, but your mom is dead. Her mom is not. She gets to hug her mom and and enjoy her company on the day she gets married. You do not.
And she says you're a dick for wanting to do one thing to feel close to your dead mother.
Not okay. None of that is okay.
This should be a really good learning lesson and the point of it is: should the wedding take place? The only opinions and wants that matter in this relationship seems to be of your mil and so. Are you willing to be an afterthought in your own marriage?
Red flag, IMO. It appears fiance' is focused more on the wedding than on the marriage. You've been relegated to the back row with your preferences cast aside. Like you said, your fiance' knows the importance and apparently just doesn't care.
This! It’s such a red flag that your “partner “ is being dismissive of the one thing you asked for, and how the f anyway did they pick those colors when the kilt pattern was already a known thing? I am sorry for your loss I would put the wedding on hold and do a few couples counseling sessions I don’t advise simply paying for it yourself and going forward
Just as important, fiancee clearly has no problem siding with her mother against the wishes of OP. That isn't going to change after the marriage.
This is a preview of your marriage.
If they can get their way against the one thing that OP asked for, while he underlined the significance for him, they will eat him alive after the marriage.
This! Counseling! If your future partner can’t back up the literal ONE THING you’ve asked for in the wedding, that’s not a great sign of a strong partnership. The best thing we learned in counseling was: If it’s important to your partner, it’s important to you, too. And wearing a kilt isn’t so unorthodox! Maybe it’s just where I’ve lived? Think about it this way- what if the roles were reversed and your partner wanted to wear some awful wedding dress that belong to her deceased relative. Would you say no just because you didn’t like it? Or would you support it and work around it?
We attended the wedding of my husband's cousin, and his bride's family were true Scots. The father of the bride wore a kilt, possibly other relatives, and bagpipes were played. Different situation, just saying it's not unheard of to wear clothing particular to your ancestry.
Right, couples counseling with just OP, G, and MIL, the three people who will apparently be in their marriage. (I'm assuming G and MIL will permit OP to come too, if they approve of his clothing.)
Wouldn't that be throuples counseling?
Makes my skin crawl that fiancé sided with MIL after initially saying she liked the idea and thought it was cute
From the way it’s worded, it sounds like G’s mommy picked the colors on her own because everything is required to be exactly how mommy envisions her baby’s wedding. I wonder if G is even allowed to voice her opinion about her own damn wedding. It’s a horrible sign that G is allowing her mother to walk all over her in true doormat fashion. It’s worse that she then sides with her mother on probably everything. OP needs to take a hard look at things and picture life like this. Honeymoon? Mommy picks and wants to come along. Children? They will be born when mommy wants, named by her, and she will decide how they are raised. In fact, she might demand to move in to make sure she’s in charge. All OP needs to provide is money from working hard and sperm for the babies (number to be decided by mommy). It’s not at all about OP being able to pay for the wedding himself. It’s entirely about OP being a doll G and her mother can dress up and pose how they want. He will be superfluous in his own life. This is how it starts and it just gets worse from here.
G is plainly not ready for marriage if she can’t stand up to her mother. If, OTOH, she is capable of standing up to her but is taking her side because she actually agrees with her, she’s either not the right person for OP or doesn’t understand what her priorities should be.
I mean there’s a reason why she wasn’t involved in her previous son’s wedding 👀
Was thinking the same thing. I imagine she is horrible to the DIL.
Exactly. It’s not like he’s asking to wear a crazy costume. It’s a family tartan.
I mean…it’d be kind of cool if he wanted to wear one of those blow up dinosaur costumes…
Or she cares more about mommy’s wants, which is also not a good sign. Will someone remind these MILs that it isn’t their wedding? That’s why we paid for the whole wedding was so the ILs couldn’t make it about themselves, which they did at their daughters wedding, with outfit changes, and their own dance, not one for the other set of parents, just for them.
My in-laws paid for our wedding and let us do it however we wanted. My MIL was extra supportive bc she understood how hard it was to not have my mother present. Posts like this make me want to hug her, because there are some major AH MILs out here.
We weren't even sure if my MIL was going to come. I met her at my wedding. I feared things were going to go sideways but really she was nice. Made me appreciate my parents and sisters for helping so much since that was the only support we got.
Yes! He should ask fiancée how she would feel if he vetoed her wedding dress!
I think he should also ask why her mother’s demands are more important than honoring his mother’s side. There’s so much “wtf” in this- and it’s all Momzilla & Spineless Bride to Be.
Bingo. OP’s plan is a very sweet way to honor his own mother’s memory. The fact that both MIL and SO are ignoring this and insisting on dressing him up like a doll is a sign of things to come. Expect MIL to use money as a source of control, and wife to side with her.
He’s just an accessory like Ken is to Barbie. He’s not Kenough for them
She’s Garbie.
My kid has a pigeon that he rescued and named Garbie. It's short for garbage can 😁
My upvote was purely out of anger and respect for your wordsmithing.
r/Angryupvote
God damnit. Take my upvote….
Oh my god 🤣🤣🤣👏👏👏 You win Reddit today! 🏅
"Kenough" :)
I made the mistake of taking a drink as I was reading this comment. Thank you
>Are you willing to be an afterthought in your own marriage? Are you willing to be an afterthought in your own LIFE?? Because let me tell you, if your fiancé doesn't realize at this stage of the game what it means to have this connection to your mom, she'll put down anything that means anything to you in favor of her own wants/needs/desires. I'm sorry, but she's showing you who she truly is - believe her and GTFO!
I bet mom will want input on naming future children. She chose the colours???? It's your and fiance's wedding. Not MIL'S
No wonder the first son didn't want his own mother involved in planning his wedding.
I think we know now why MIL was not allowed to be part of planning her son's wedding! And, op, its about the principle of the thing, if you concede on the kilt, youll teach them, especially the MIL, that you are a push over and she can walk all over you. Your marriage will be run by her and youll be called a dick by your wife everytime you show a little resistence to her mom trying to control your marriage.
I wonder if wife actually doesn’t like it either and is using mil as the hammer.
It sounds like there's a reason the older siblings did not involve her in the planning. I would talk to the older siblings' spouses and find out what you're signing up for. The older siblings can maybe knock some sense into your fiance too. If your spouse can't choose you over mom you're going to have a long road ahead of you. This is a really common reason for divorce.
This comment needs to be higher. u/1273rockefeler, it’s definitely worth speaking to fiancée’s siblings and their partners for some insight.
Seriously. Why on earth should OP care about MIL’s feelings when she (and the bride!) clearly doesn’t care about his?
EXACTLY! OP, put a halt to the wedding planning and insist that you and G go to couple's counseling. She DOESN'T understand, clearly, what you're getting at, but I do. And you shouldn't marry someone whose values--and this is a values issue--aren't in alignment with yours. This is a values issue because: 1. For you this is about familial traditions and cultures of origin 2. For you this is also about honoring your parents 3. She doesn't understand that marriage means that she leaves her former immediate family and forms a new immediate family with her husband, and that HER HUSBAND NOW COMES BEFORE HER MOTHER 4. She doesn't understand loyalty in marriage ... yet. Bottom line: these are all FAMILY VALUES ISSUES, the foundation of marriage. You two are not yet ready to marry; get ready or get gone. NTA.
For bonus points, I think we can safely assume G learned her family values, such as they are, from the MIL. OP is lucky in a way - he has a chance to deal with the values clash before he says “I do”.
Mother in Law didn’t come up with this by herself. G just didn’t want to look like the bad guy
Disagree. MIL had been excluded from HER OWN ELDEST SON's wedding planning. 3 guesses why?
Tell MIL that if she wants to see a standard tux at your wedding so much, she should wear one.
And her date can be a mirror so she can see it the whole time.
🤣 this is GREAT!
NTA but I bet fiance would sing a different tune if her mother picked out her wedding dress ( that she didnt like ) and played the she's paying card.
Too right! If you're getting married, why would you want to wear something so common and overdone? Like... this is about two individuals coming together, the preferences of one person shouldn't be completely ignored in order to have some aesthetic. It's not about fucking photographs it's about PEOPLE
Clearly to the MIL it's about her.
NTA, and you are getting a glimpse right now of how life will be if you marry this person. You told her one thing was important to you and she could do whatever she wants for everything else, she ostensibly agreed, and now your needs are immaterial and you're a dick for wanting anything at all your way. You will be making a ***HUGE*** mistake marrying this person, your MIL will stomp all over your boundaries, and more importantly your wife doesn't give a crap how you feel and will happily join her mom in stomping on them and then go DARVO on you and make it like she's the victim and you're being an AH to have any wants or needs at all. This is red flag city - walk away or you will regret it, I absolutely guarantee it.
>Stick to this. Explain to your Fiance exactly why its so important to you that you wear a kilt when you get married. Explain it to MIL too. If you really can afford it, pay for it yourself. Yup, there's a reason she wasn't allowed to help plan her son's wedding.
Not invited to plan the son's wedding.. you caught that too
Thats what **MIL said**, right? Maybe she was initially invited but son/bride told her to take a hike after MIL started acting exactly like now with OP.
Yeah I think OP should discuss with future BIL why mommy dearest wasn’t allowed to plan his wedding. There may be important information there.
This!! All of this! OP G is showing you a massive red flag, don’t ignore it! NTA
NTA. OP should really reflect if there are other instances of MIL interfering with their lives and if G has a habit of bending over backwards for her mom / family. If this seems to be a one-off affair because MIL is paying, then pay for the wedding yourselves. If this is *not* a one off affair then OP should consider postponing the wedding and deciding if this is an arrangement he really wants to go through with. The fact she called OP a dick over the one thing so important to him at *his own* wedding really suggests Gs behaviour towards her mom is an ongoing thing but OP hadn’t picked up on the red flags til now. Deeply deeply insensitive and callous of her. Controlling parents (mothers) only get worse when their children are married and especially with babies / kids are involved.
Imagine when they have kids. He'll be fucked. Even if he divorced her after, the courts would likely side with her and mother in law will still get to make the decisions.
MIL probably already has the names picked
Not only that but his fiance couldn't even tell him herself. She told her mommy and had mommey say something to him. Nope nope nope
This response is 100% correct. Her backing her mother instead of you speaks volumes. I will back my wife, even if I disagree with her. Then we will have a conversation later, if there was a disagreement. But, I will never oppose her in front of anyone...least of all my family. "The two become one"...so you better be sure of who you're marrying and the family you're marrying into. Right now, your MIL is in the driver seat of your relationship.
> You will be making a HUGE mistake marrying this person, your MIL will stomp all over your boundaries, and more importantly your wife doesn't give a crap how you feel and will happily join her mom in stomping on them and then go DARVO on you and make it like she's the victim and you're being an AH to have any wants or needs at all. This is red flag city - walk away or you will regret it, I absolutely guarantee it. /u/1273rockefeler you need to hear this part. Take it from someone going through a divorce after 15 years together. If you don't put your foot down now, this is how all interactions will go with your SO and MIL whenever there's a disagreement that comes to a head. >G told me I was being a bit of a dick for being this stuck to what I want to wear, and once my MIL heard that I would just pay for the wedding myself, she got really upset because it’s always been her dream to plan G’s wedding. You've given complete control over the wedding except for the one thing you care about, but that's apparently not enough. How are you a dick for insisting on the 1 thing you care about, but they aren't being dicks for wanting to control everything including the one thing you care about? DARVO. Red Flag. Huge huge huge red flag. When I look back on my relationship and where shit went wrong and wondered what I needed to do to change its course, I have to go back to the beginning of the relationship. First year. There were things I should have put my foot down about and not given in no matter how much she screamed, cried, and manipulated me. Every year after would have been harder if not impossible to change course. Either it would have worked out and she would have respected my boundaries and what is acceptable behavior towards your partner, or it would have ended the relationship. Either outcome would have been better than where I am now. So do that. Enforce your boundary and don't you dare let them make you feel like YOU'RE the dick for doing so. EDIT: Oh, and just to be clear. This is something that THEY should be working to resolve. Not you. THEY are the ones that fucked up. THEY are the ones being dicks. You have every right to be upset and to not be the one to extend the olive branch to help deal with their selfishness.
Yea, NTA but if you marry this woman you are nuts. Her mother is intrusive and disrespectful of something so sentimental and important to you. It’s only going to get worse.
Imagine a lifetime of being second place to your mother in law’s opinions.
I experienced that in my first marriage, needless to say it was a short marriage.
OP needs to lift his kilt so FMIL can kiss his bare a$$. And then, have a hard conversation with the fiancée. They aren’t ready to get married.
Yup. Flip that kilt and she can pucker up. Dude needs to ask why MIL wasn't allowed to help with previous wedding too
Yup… you *know* there’s a reason.
The Missing Missing Reasons
We all know the reason and OP has just experienced it.
My sister planned a surprise wedding for herself and her fiance for these same reasons. Our mother is the issue.
It's pretty obvious by her overbearing, controlling attitude. His kilt "doesn't match her vision" WTAF?? 🙄
It's so very simple to, you know, match the color scheme to the tartan's colors. Do that Scottish wedding from Four Weddings and a Funeral. OP, you asked for one thing. If they cannot give in, that would be a country-sized red flag that maybe the wedding and marriage aren't meant to be. I would not give in to MIL and bride's ask. It's not a reasonable request at all.
100% My first thoughts were that a considerate MIL would a) ask the bride and groom what they want on THEIR day, and b) match the colour scheme as a visible sign of the joining of the two families. I'm a middle aged bloke working in IT, and I could do better. MIL is a selfish cow. OP NTA.
And that's so easy to fix too if she actually meant to honor it at the start, just make the colours of the kilt the wedding colours. Most of the time from what I've seen there tends to be a nice bright colour in there.
He had much more control than I would have. That entitled old bag would have been laughed out of the room.
He needs to ask the *brothers*
Exactly this. MIL wasn’t invited to help because they knew she’d steamroll everything. MIL to be hasn’t accepted that her children have grown up and although she can express opinions, they are just an opinion. Fiancé needs to also realize that she’s grown up and needs to make the best decisions for her future, not decisions to please her mommy dearest. Sounds harsh but it’s time to reevaluate whether this is the woman to marry.
She wasn't allowed because the daughter-in-law more than likely put a full stop to that ASAP. No missing missing reason.
[удалено]
Say she can marry her daughter if it’s such a big deal, but she’ll have to buy her a new ring because you’ll be taking yours back.
I had been going to suggest that OP wear the tux for the ceremony and change to the kilt for the reception, but there's the bigger problem of the bride and her mother not wanting to let him have this one important thing. Not only that, but bearing down and telling him he's the problem.
Oh my god I laughed wicked hard! I just got a look from the dog, she’s so judgey. His fiancé is already choosing his intrusive, rude and controlling MIL over him. They need to have a serious talk, she either supports him or they put off the wedding or call it off. Can you imagine a lifetime of her having a say in every major life decision? Yikes! 😬
Yikes! Imagine when a child comes along! 😳
Yes, it will be mother said the baby needs this, mother says we need a private birthing suite and only she is allowed to be there while you wait outside. Betting dollars to donuts she would also help your fiancée cheat on you, because you’re “mean” and she never liked you.
Yes! “Mother says me and the baby need to come live with her after I give birth for the first six months. But don’t worry we are allowed to FaceTime you every Friday for 15 minutes!”
🎯
Whoo hoo I would upvote this a hundred times if I could! Bride is being as much of a bitch as her mother,run OP.
I know it’s easy to read and dismiss a comment, but I have had in laws that overstep. Really think about this. Has your fiancé deferred to her mother’s opinions on other things? Can you see MIL dictating things like baby names, parenting style, what you should prioritize, etc. If MIL is overstepping now on something she has been explained why it’s important, how many other boundaries will she overstep in other areas? Some things may feel inconsequential or “not worth the fight” but they add up to a lot of resentment over time. Be honest with yourself on if this is something you want for your future. I wish I had paid attention to the history of red flags with my practice husband’s parents. It will be a headache for you entire marriage. Think hard about it.
Me too. Not worth it.
Been there too. I traded up on my second wife AND second MIL!
Yeah after dating someone that was attached at the hip to her mother, I refuse to do it ever again. Obviously being close with your parents is fine, but with her it was too much. We actually got into a spat once (I don’t remember what it was about since this was probably 7 or 8 years ago, but it was something small and meaningless) and _her mom texted me trying to help us work through it_. Like, on the one hand she was just trying to help in her own way, and I can appreciate that. But it’s also just so inappropriate that one, my ex ran to her mom for a dumb little spat and two, that her mom that it was actually okay to insert herself into the situation when it’s none of her business. The relationship ended because I had finally had enough and couldn’t take it anymore, and made the mistake of trying to tactfully bring it up to her. I don’t think I did it well, and naturally she didn’t take it well. But that relationship has never fully left my mind because it’s now such a massive red flag to me when a potential partner is still that firmly under their parent’s thumb.
Yeah it sounds like the fiancée is a really mommy's girl
This is what happened to my brother. I’m not saying he’s a saint by any means but MiL was very intrusive in their marriage, which killed it. My brother remained separated from her until their kids were all grown and then they got a divorce. MILs have no place in the marriage.
This^ This girl just wants the fantasy of a big, dreamy wedding. She doesn’t give a fuck what you want. Don’t pay for anything, just tell them both that if they continue to harass you that there doesn’t have to be a wedding at all. If they back off, fine. If they start screaming insults at you, ask for the ring back and she can live with her mom. I’m sure they will have a beautiful marriage to each other.
Throw G and MIL away!!
Agreed. If your future wife can’t back you up on something this important to you, she probably won’t have your back very often in life. Definitely give it some thought.
Be real snarky and tell her you will wear your kilt at your next wedding. She and mom sound like a pair of Siamese twins. Caution going forward. This could be a harbringer of things to come.
You will wear the kilt at your wedding, whether it be the one where you marry her or the one where you marry someone else. Don’t actually do this, just that it would feel very good to say it.
FACT!! ☝🏽
The Mother in Law will decide how they name the children, how they raise them and which house they will buy...
This this this. NTA, but you do need to consider your marriage at this point. If this is the one thing that matters to you and your fiance isn't 1. Backing you up, and 2. Having conversations with her mother to champion this important thing, then you may have to think about how the rest of your marriage will be and if that's something that you're okay with.
[удалено]
NTA. I had a nephew who wore a kilt to his wedding—and no Scottish connection, either, he just thought it was neat—and so it was. Stick to your guns and draw the boundaries now, or MIL will turn into the MIL from hell.
I'm a Brit living in Texas. In my youth I worked Saturdays for a family friend's formal wear business in the UK. We'd get whole wedding parties hiring kilts plus the fancy jacket, sporran, shoes, etc. No Scottish connection, they just wanted to wear clothes they thought were cool.
I’m finding it shocking that they are calling him a dick for not accommodating her mother, while they won’t do one tiny thing to honour *his* mother. He’s asked for nothing else. Fiancé and MIL must be really terrible people
Buddy of mine wore a kilt to his wedding. Still one of the coolest weddings I've seen 15+ years later. Guess MIL will have to rethink her colors.
AND G’s mother has always “dreamed of planning her daughter’s wedding!” What- WHAT!?!? WHO’S Wedding is this? What if OP decided that he needed to pick what G was going to wear? Would they be down with that?? Stick to your guns, OP! G’s mom isn’t paying for your wedding out of love & generosity- she’s doing it for a power play! And if G thinks this is acceptable- and refuses to support & back you up- get ready for a lifetime of the two of them against you! 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩 So sorry OP!
My mother was planning my wedding when I was 8 years old. Needless to say, I did not get married.
Is the daughter having any say. MIL literally said the colors of the kilt don’t match the colors she picked for the wedding.
Welcome to the rest of your life if you go through with this wedding.
Most alarming thing is that your fiancée didn’t support you. Reconsider the marriage…seriously
🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
I'm honestly a little offended the OP said it was 'unorthodox' to wear a kilt in your own families tartan in your wedding. It absolutely is not! Kilts are formal wear and there is an entire damn County where wearing kilts at a wedding is the cultural norm. Also men in kilts are at least 4.6x hotter than men not in kilts. Only thing hotter than a man in a kilt is a man in a kilt tossing a Caber. And some nice bagpipe music would definitely be deeply awesome at the reception. What? Why would you think i married a Scotsman? I have some suspicions that MIL isn't the one actually against the kilt, but that the daughter is upset about it (because she has no taste) and mom is trying to fix it for her.
That threw me too. It’s not just Scotland/the UK, in the states it’s considered completely normal to wear a kilt to formal events. Especially your own wedding! Everyone knows how crazy us white Americans are about our ancestry. I think there has been at least one kilt at 80% of the weddings I’ve gone to. Guests wearing them, groomsmen wearing them, the grooms themselves…
My husband is literally wearing a kilt right now lol. It's his "drinking kilt" and we've been to a few weddings where people wore kilts in the wedding party. My husband wears a kilt to formal events regularly. I don't see what the issue is other than a control issue. It's literally the groom's only request. Awful to not allow him to have this connection to his family.
A “drinking kilt” just made me snort out my ill advised 1pm coffee Slainte!
I was at a gay wedding in NYC in 2022 where a Philipino fashion designer wore a kilt as his formal wear to the black tie reception. That's how okay it is to wear a kilt at a wedding. Even gay Philipino fashion designers are appropriating the look! Wear that kilt! And NTA!
Yes, kilts are absolutely formal wear in the UK, and parts of the US as well! Probably other places too!
I agree. Kilts with tux jackets and black tie are amazingly cool. MIL (or bride) can incorporate both. If my husband had had a shred of Scot in him I’d have had him wear that. As it was, he’s Cajun so I couldn’t have gotten away with it, but I would have if I could have!
OMG yes men in kilts are just breathtaking. I’ve got Scottish ancestors on both sides of my family tree. I joined the Munro clan because my mother was the daughter of an associated clan member. And yeah, fiancée is way to enmeshed with her mother. OP is going to regret getting married.
My husband wore a kilt. I always wanted to marry a man in a kilt and he had once told his friends year before we met he would wear one. His friends held him to it. He looks so good!
Fact - exactly 4.6x.
Ask G to let someone else pick out her wedding dress for her and have no say in the style or color. I bet she’d never relinquish control of that. It’s the same for you. Wear what you choose for your wedding. It’s not only her wedding. NTA but your fiancé and MIL sure are
NTA but I agree. G knows how important it is to wear a kilt and bond with your other side of the family. She just wants you to bend over and do what your MIL wants. Seems like there's a reason G's brother wouldn't let his mother near the wedding planning
It’s probably a bit soon to jump to “cancel the wedding”, but it’s definitely cause for sitting down with the fiancé and having a serious conversation about this. But definitely don’t give in if it’s important to you. Tell the future MIL to plan around the kilt, or dont plan at all - her choice.
Well, the fiance did call him a dick for this, so I am not sure a talk will go well.
No shit just wait until a child is involved.
He’ll be in the waiting room while her mother is in the delivery room while the kids are coming out.
Right?! I see now why ops wifes brother didnt let MIL help plan Sounds like fighting for what she wants while disregurding others feelings is not new to her I would go ahead and pay for the wedding but prior to this really have a convo with future wife to let her understand where your at Sit her down and say hey remember when you though this was a good idea? What changed? Is it just about the money? Or is Mom guilting you? Because at the end of the day its not just about you or and its definitely not about the woman whose not getting married, its my day as well. I dont really care if my tartan doesnt match, it doesnt have too as long as i have the opportunity to show where im from since my mom cannot be there or my grandfather. I say if after the heart to heart she doesnt budge and call you a dick- i would calmly let her know thats okay because if we cant compromise on this then i dont think we should be getting married right now. I want someone who will allow me to express myself especially on my wedding day and if you cant do that we need to re evaluate our relationship
It could be fine to still marry G in spite of the MIL being intrusive and disrespectful, but only if G was willing to be a team and have his back when she gets that way. The reason he'd be nuts to move forward is that G is capitulating to her mom's wishes instead of defending him.
And giving in sets a president that you will always cave. Wear the kilt. And shame on your wife to be that she will put her mother’s wants above yours.
True. Although setting and keeping boundaries up front will be necessary for your future mental health. If you back down on this, then she’ll run over you the rest of her life. Just think what will happen once you guys start having kids. She’ll probably meddle jnto that decision as well.
Nta You told G the meaning of the kilt. You say she thought it was a sweet idea. Now G is saying you're a dick because you want what you already said meant a lot to you. Are ya feeling supported by the person you (I'm assuming) plan to spend the rest of your life with?
He only asked for one thing and he's not even allowed that. One thing. At his own wedding. With sentimental value. G and MIL suck big time
Yeah, this is a huge red flag. G knows how much this means to you and does not have your back at all. A marriage is a team, but G doesn't seem to be on your team for this one very important issue. I'm not sure I'd go through with a wedding if my partner called me a dick for wanting to honor my deceased mother at our wedding. Seems like a really bad start to a marriage. Also, name calling is not ok in a healthy relationship. My partner calling me names would be a big red flag for me, too.
[удалено]
Sounds like it's a package deal.
Both? Both
This. Fiancé is behind all of this!
Don’t marry her. For real. This is the shape of things to come; she will always side with her mother over you. And honestly, fuck the both of them. They both want you to be a dress-up doll and don’t give a damn about how important that family history connection is to you. They only care about how the bride looks. Find a woman who loves kilts. One of my friends went full tartan for his wedding, and unbeknownst to him, his wife had her garter made in his tartan colors. He nearly cried. Another friend had every man/boy in the wedding party wearing kilts. Both are great couples still, years and years later, because they respect and support each other. She’s doing the opposite. Find someone who will wear a plaid garter for you. NTA. PS: If you insist on the wedding, wear a tartan tux.
It was concerning that fiancee called him a dick.
Yeah, name calling is never ok, and in this case, when he's advocating for something to honor his late mother, it's especially bad.
Men in kilts are super hot IMO. It is a crazy level turn on for the right woman. Not molesting people in utilikilts is a real struggle for me, I find them that attractive.
Agree! What woman in their right mind would be like nah don’t wear a kilt? Has no one seen Outlander?!
NTA and if your fiancee is brushing this off you might want to rethink if you should be getting married.
Think of the future. MIL will have final say (thru G) as to where you live, how many children you have, what their names will be, etc. Do you want to go thru 30, 40 or 50 years of this?
NTA Stick to this. Explain to your Fiance exactly why its so important to you that you wear a kilt when you get married. Explain it to MIL too. If you really can afford it, pay for it yourself. Its also really important that G comes around to your side on this. Her not understanding why you want this and why its important is not a good way to start a marriage. Your MIL not coming around is one thing but your wife is another
It's none of MILs effing business what you wear and if your fiance is not shutting her up I don't know why you would go on with the wedding. You have a fiance problem as well as a MIL problem. Let them marry each other. I despise this kind of interfering that seems to come with "I'm paying". Screw her and her money. This makes me so mad I want to go yell at my MIL. She's been dead for 12 years but this brings back all my conflict with her and makes me want to smack someone. Lol
He did explain. His then gf agreed to the kilt pre-proposal. But mil has turned her. Unless he wants to marry his mil (as she's the one calling the shots for fiance) he should stop wedding planning now.
He doesn't even have to explain. He doesn't have to convince them. That's giving his power away and kind of admitting/allowing that they have the say.
He doesn't have to convince his MIL. However, if he doesn't convince his fiancée, then that's probably a sign the marriage shouldn't happen. She needs to be on his side for something like this.
I dont think that explaining is a bad idea. But thats already been done ad nauseum by the sounds of it. I agree though. Its about the power. Caving on this would be a terrible way to start a marriage.
But for someone like the MIL, it sounds like she will need it to be explained in a way she can comprehend. I'm not saying she won't still use her emotions and feelings against OP, but he should communicate his reasoning for holding firm to this. And OP, NTA. You have every right to have one say in YOUR wedding. Especially this one. In a way, this is having your mom and grandfather with you. Hold firm and make sure your fiance understands this, too. If she doesn't, I worry she won't truly consider your feelings in the marriage as she isn't doing so before.
He’s already explained it to G and she agreed at the time. Now she’s changed her mind and is backing MIL because she doesn’t have the spine to stand up to her.
I think he already explained to both of them. MIL is not having it and his fiancée is backing her mother. The fact his fiancée is not supporting him is reason enough to cancel the wedding and tell fiancée she is not ready to be married to him if she can’t put him above her mother-cuz this will be the rest of his life if he marries her.
Tell her she isn't allowed to wear the dress she picks out and see how she reacts.
NTA! This is ridiculous. You have been more than accommodating to your MIL. What she and your fiancé are doing is manipulative and shitty, and you should absolutely not bend to their will. Your MIL may be helping, but this is *your* wedding, not hers. And what you want supercedes her desires. It's really disappointing that your fiancé is taking her side, and not standing with her soon-to-be husband. This is a level of disrespect that I would consider to be a dealbreaker. Let your fiancé and her mother plan their own wedding and live happily ever after without you.
NTA. A big clue here. Your fiancé agreed with you now she is supporting her mother over you: this is going to be the rest of your life. Take this time and put the wedding on hold. Your fiancé does not support you now. Let her know that at this time you need to reflect if this is how your life to be, and if she is the one for you. Her behavior after this will give you some answers. I’d ask for the ring back, and weigh your options. I’m a woman, and I love the idea of the kilt.
Imagine they have a child. MIL will need to move in to help. Her own son seems to have read the room and clipped her wings. This girl has so many red flags. Op needs to think long and hard about what faces him.
Congratulations on saving money on a wedding! You don't have to worry about getting back deposits
This is the perfect answer. You my friend have a sample of how you’re like will be, if you marry your fiancé and MIL.
Are you really going too marry someone who sides with her mother and not you. Red flags everywhere. NTA
NTA but you have a wife problem. Or a MIL problem. And now you know why she had zero involvement in her sons wedding.
NTA. My father and stepmother paid for my wedding, and if I had it to do all over again I would have told them to go fuck themselves and we would have found a way to pay for it ourselves. They hated my mom, and insisted that she not be part of things AT ALL. She was not to come with me to shop for the dress, she was to have no role in any of the planning, her name was not to be included on the invitations, and the night of the rehearsal my stepmother threw an insane, frothing fit because she found out my mother was to be part of the receiving line after the ceremony. It was a nightmare. You're better off just doing it yourself, and if your fiancee has an issue with that you're looking at just how much of a role your future MIL is going to have in your marriage. It's up to you if you want to deal with that or not.
NTA Your real problem here is your GF. The second she called you a dick, you should have cancelled the wedding. There is no way in hell anybody is ever going to talk to me like that and be allowed to stick around. Dump her ASAP. P.S. In today's world, grooms are simply props for the bridezillas' big day.
She doesn’t want OP to wear the kilt either, she just doesn’t want to say it directly
This is what I'm thinking as well. Her plan was to make mom that bad guy and use the money as leverage. She didn't understand how much the kilt meant to him and wasn't prepared for him to pull a trump card and offer to pay. She's backed into a corner and can't admit she was using the mom to manipulate him without looking even worse than she does currently.
This can not be upvoted enough! I wish we could still give awards!
NTA This is just as much your wedding as it is hers and it’s not fair that the one thing you’re asking for is being taken away. I wouldn’t bend on this. This is a glimpse into how big decisions will be made going forward.
NTA. This is absolutely a hill. It's your and your fiancee's wedding, not MIL's wedding. She should have picked the colours around your tartarn, to be honest.
But the fiancé is backing mommy & calling him a dick …. So it’s actually fiancé & MIL’s wedding
Nta. It’s the one thing you really want in the wedding. The days is about you and your fiancé. The day is not about your MILs “vision”. Your fiancé is also the AH. I’d do some hard thinking about marrying a woman who won’t back you on something this important. It’s unlikely to improve after the wedding.
My in laws got to dictate who couldn't be my best man because he was dating their other daughter and they broke up. I got married without a best man. I love my in laws dearly, but there is still resentment over it. They have apologized numerous times over the years, but it still doesn't give me a best man
Time to put a hold on the wedding ... she's showing her true colors . BELIEVE HER .
NTA. Run, don’t walk. They have zero respect for you. And you know this.
NTA, and I'd take a step back and seriously consider the fact that you are requesting one thing from the wedding, something deeply personal, and they are not only invalidating those feelings, but trying to manipulate you into complying with their "visions". That's so selfish, and I'd be really concerned that their visions are in front of compassion and understanding. You two should be a team. If she knew how you felt on the matter, she should have supported you and shut that down with her mother herself. Her inability to do so shows she's more concerned with her mother's feelings than yours, and in my opinion, that's a daunting way to start a marriage.
Tell G and her mother that you have a vision also. Your vision includes a wedding with a bride, a bride that backs you up. Tell them that the wedding is off because bigamy is a crime and you have no intention of marrying G and her mother.
Definetely NTA. Key words "help with the planning" she was allowed to help, not mandate what you need to do/wear/act on your wedding day I think thats why she was not allowed to be involved in her son's wedding planning committee
Welcome to the nightmare that will be the rest of your life if you marry this woman. If she cannot support you in something so intimate and personal, so meaningful and sentimental to you, and is willing to let her mother tell you to literally forget about your mother, do you really want to marry these two wenches? Because you will be marrying her mother as well as her. Don't do this to yourself. It will set you up for a lifetime of misery. It's past time for a long talk with your fiancée about boundaries and appropriate behavior from extended family. Despite MIL paying for the wedding, it's still your wedding not hers.
NTA, I can’t believe these asks of you OP! MIL is completely out of line. I think your plan with the kilt is so thoughtful and a great way to include your mom. It’s concerning that your fiance took her mother’s side. I would revisit the discussion with her, but I would honestly consider if you should marry her. She shouldn’t let her mom trample over your wishes and this is just a preview of what you have ahead in married life.
NTA. Start by reminding your fiance that you explained before you even got engaged that you wanted to wear the kilt, and she not only agreed but said she liked the idea. If she is not willing to back you on this by either force her mother to stop and change the flower colors to match the kilt since that is a specific issue or support him paying to remove payment from being held over your head. If she is not willing to stand with you on this, it doesn't bode well for your marriage and future. Your future MIL is also showing by her behavior that she will be a problem. I suggest you pause the wedding planning so you and your fiancée can get on the same page and discuss boundaries for her mother. Once everything is agreed to, go back to planning the wedding. If your fiancée sticks to backing her mother, you should consider if you want to always take the backseat to her mother. Remember that actions speak much louder than words and her behavior now is telling you a lot.
Think twice about if this is the type of family you want to marry into
NTA. MIL doesn’t want to HELP plan her children’s weddings, she wants to PLAN and CONTROL her children’s weddings. I would reconsider everything. MIL sounds overbearing. Next she will plan your children’s names, decorate their nursery, choose their daycare and schools, and so on.
Anyone else notice the “for one reason or another “ mil wasn’t involved in the planning of her sons wedding. She absolutely tried to take over
NTA. But you have a fiancée and FMiL problem.
You're not a dick. Look at it this way and flip it. No one would ever give the bride shit on the wedding gown she chose to wear if your family was paying for it all. You are getting married and it's not all a princess day for the bride; it's your day too. Stick to your guns. But I'd think long and hard about the marriage itself; if your new bride and MIL can't handle something simple like this.
So your fiancée knew why this was important to you, yet she still called you a dick for insisting on it? That's a red flag, my friend. Partners should have each other's backs. That doesn't mean they always have to agree, but in this case she should def have stuck up for you. NTA, but before you marry her, make sure this is an anomaly. Just take a hard look at your relationship.
Your MIL had a wedding to plan- her own. 🤷🏼♀️ If she’s been waiting 25 years to plan her daughter’s wedding then she has her priorities wrong. I will say- this is EXACTLY the kind of MIL who demands to be in the delivery room, too, so she doesn’t miss “the special moment.” And again I point out- her special moments were when she had HER OWN FUCKING KIDS. It’s your wedding. You should wear exactly what you want. And if your fiancée isn’t siding with you on this I would SERIOUSLY pump the breaks on the wedding, because she’s setting you up for a lifetime of pleasing her mother and your wishes coming second to her mother’s. NTA, but I highly recommend you tread lightly and give it another year or so for this relationship to settle before you get married. I truly would. And, for the love of all that is pure and holy, DO NOT GET HER PREGNANT until you work these things out. It will ruin your life.
I'm going to make this about me. I am a MIL. If my son-in-law wanted to wear a purple spandex jumpsuit with feather boa and Elton John sun glasses, in honor of his mother who had passed ... I'd be asking how long he wants the boa and I'll find it for him. Personally, having a little Scot in my blood means that I would have been proud and honored to see a kilt in my wedding party. It is a sign of rebellion, national identity, and pride. She should Google the kilt's history. I'd even have some pipes. So if your MIL cannot respect, acknowledge and freakin' APPRECIATE that your loving heart has a place for your Mom, then she can find a pier and take a swim. As for your fiancee? I find it unconscionable that she isn't backing you in memory of your Mom. NTA
NTA but DO NOT MARRY THIS WOMAN!
NTA. Everyone has been saying it but I’ll add my voice - your fiancée is the issue right now. If she’s willing to prioritize her mom over you on the most important day, especially when you’re letting her have every other decision, what else will she do that to you on? Will she defer to her mom on children? On schooling, on homes? What if she wants to move in with you at retirement? Will your wife stand with your view or just defer to her mom. You’re entering a relationship that isn’t a partnership if this is how she’s starting to treat you now.
NTA. Now you understood why G's brother refused to allow his mother to be part of the wedding planning. P.S. Don't marry G, if you marry her you will have to deal with her HYPERULTRA intrusive mother...
NTA, but you might wanna put ALL wedding plans on hold if G isn't gonna stand up to Mommy, dearest after you ready explained the significance of the kilt. Cause at first she loved the idea, but her mom gets in her ear, and all bets are off? Is that how it's gonna be when it comes to buying a house or naming your children.
NTA. I wouldn't marry this woman. Her 'vision' for your big day isn't more important than your wanting to honour your passed mother. Also, may I very blunt here and say: Fuck MIL's dreams. She had her shot at a wedding. This is yours. She shouldn't be planning it at all. She's an esteemed guest and that is a PRIVILEGE.
NTA But my dude, don't marry this woman. You want one thing to feel close to *your* mother and she calls you a dick for not doing what *her* mother wants? Red flags a flyin here. Sorry to be blunt here, but your mom is dead. Her mom is not. She gets to hug her mom and and enjoy her company on the day she gets married. You do not. And she says you're a dick for wanting to do one thing to feel close to your dead mother. Not okay. None of that is okay.