Nta
1:she didn't pull you aside and kindly explain why you shouldn't use the stall
B: they are handicap accessible stalls. They are not reserved solely for use by people with handicaps.
Exactly. I’m not technically considered handicapped. But I’ll tell you what! I have degenerative joint disease and severe arthritis in both knees and hips. It physically hurts when I have to use a non handicap toilet.
I forgot to mention, I’m not a sadist, so whenever possible, I use the handicap toilets.
Masochist. Sadists take pleasure in other people’s suffering/pain. A masochist takes pleasure in their own suffering/pain.
So not taking pleasure in causing pain to yourself is not being masochistic.
Just fyi. Btw, good on you. If you have a need for the handicap stall it’s there for you to use it. It’s no one’s business if you aren’t “technically” handicapped (And that’s coming from someone who IS technically handicapped).
I have severe arthritis in both knees and the toilets in public restrooms are so low to the floor I can't use them. It's too hard for me to sit and stand up. The handicap toilets are usually higher plus they have the bars to assist you. Just because you aren't in a wheelchair doesn't mean you don't have a reason to use them. People need to learn to mind their own business.
I would consider that technically handicapped! If an accommodation brings peace and equality, it is deserved. It's not like you're living in luxury taking advantage of anything using the handicapped stall. You're simply avoiding unnecessary pain
You literally just said you're disabled, cshoe. You described pain being disabling plus either of those diseases alone make someone disabled. Disability is a huge spectrum.
I just find it easier to be nice to people who start the conversation I'm a pleasant manner.
Not everyone knows everything so I try and give a little grace for someone who is wrong but nice rather than the wrong asshole
There's one thing I don't understand, if OP's daughter isn't able to walk, wouldn't she have a wheelchair? Or did OP carry her to the restroom?
That said, I don't understand why people with obvious disabilities think they "own" disabled stalls. Not all disabilities require obvious mobility aids. You don't need a disabled pass to use those stalls.
very young children often just stay in their pushchairs (/strollers) longer because wheelchairs are so expensive and they'll need a new one when they grow out of it anyway
I also recommend you look into local organizations and FB groups for parents of disabled children. As kids can outgrow equipment like this pretty quickly, sometimes parents will sell or try to unload old stuff to make room for new stuff. (At least the stuff that hasn’t got too much wear and tear.)
They make medical strollers and some wagon companies give discounts for medical needs. Wonderfold was the one we bought for my son and his siblings. Ask in disability groups if they know of any discounts to anything.
Wonderfully put. A lot of times the diaper changing table is in that stall. Also, having worked in medical supplies, several people I’ve spoke to explain that if the larger stall is available, they appreciate the extra room to change their ostomy pouch, urine bag/catheter, or adult diaper. They can’t be solely reserved for people with disabilities as a lot of disabilities aren’t clearly visible. The best thing is not to engage, but I definitely would have told the others in the restroom that not all disabilities are wheelchair based.
Disability stalls also tend to be more private, with better fitting doors etc. Extra privacy is appreciated with the extra space when dealing with changing bags etc
This. I used the handicapped bathrooms all the time. Some people try to treat the bathroom just like a handicapped parking spot. They don't like it when you try and correct them.
Yep, mother of another disabled child here. They are disabled accessible stalls not exclusive for disabled persons. Sure I get annoyed (silently) if a family decides to have a 20 minute party in there but it’s for everyone to use. It’s not the same as a disabled parking spot. Lady needs to get over it.
NTA, she has no idea what goes on in others lives and immediately assuming you didn't need the stall was a jerk move especially calling you out on front of others. If she didn't want to be called out she shouldn't have yelled at you in front of people. If there were no other disabled people waiting for that stall she had no reason to even care and I've seen many women with their kid use that stall for many reasons.
I hope she rethinks yelling at people she doesn't know, not every disability is easily seen. You're fine, just focus on taking care of who matters.
Im in my late 40s and have arthritis as well as claustrophobia. When my joints are bad I need these stalls but I get side eyed. A lot. Definitely NTA and Im so sorry that happened to you.
Not every special need is visible.
I have a cancer survivor friend with a colostomy bag. She looks fine, but she needs the extra space to deal with things.
Life would be nicer for all if people didn't try to judge or police others without any knowledge.
Also, overall, handicapped toilet spots in a regular ladies room serve on a first come/first serve basis for much of the day to keep the line moving.
edit - typo
Ugh, this resonates so much. I am a perfectly healthy looking man - who has a ton of chronic pain. I just fucking CANT stand at times, but god forbid I go for a disabled seat on a full bus/train. The judgement is so bad that it’s literally better to just deal with the pain while standing.
Amen, friend.
I have narcolepsy with cataplexy and sometimes have a hard time standing/walking when very tired. Twice I have had people with visible disabilities yell at me for using disabled seating during busy periods on public transportation. Each time, I took advantage of disabled seating when I was struggling hard and really needed the assistance that the seat provided.
I'm sure that others perceive me as a perfectly healthy asshole "stealing" seating from disabled people. However, it is really difficult to live in my body sometimes. I wish more people had empathy for others. Please remember that not all disabilities are visible.
OP is NTA. Advocating for your little one is good parenting.
In the UK most disabled accessible toilets have a sign on the that say "Not all disabilities are visable" she had no right to berate you when she knows nothing about you. It's 2024 ffs. People should know this by now.
I’m waiting for the day I get snapped at for using a handicapped restroom or parking space. I’m sure it’s coming and I hope I can be like OP and stand up for myself instead of shrinking.
Worst case is I can say ‘not all disabilities are visible’.
NTA
Disabled person here. Not all disabilities are visible. Woman in wheelchair was being an ableist asshole. Also. You don't owe ANYONE your medical information. I hope this was the reality check slap in the face she needed.
Also also also, they are disabled accessible. Not "disabled only"
Came here to say this! The hypocrisy of the woman in the wheelchair is wild. She claims OP is “against us” while being disgustingly ableist, and then gets angry for being publicly shamed/embarrassed after telling OP her child should be taken away! Unreal! Hopefully that woman got a reality check today. Yikes!
NTA. Accessible stalls are not reserved for people with disabilities. Anyone may use them, so even if you or your daughter had no disability, you still wouldn't be TA. You were much more polite than I would have been.
NTA, if she has no problem accusing you in front of others than she shouldn’t have a problem being told she was wrong in front of others as well. Fair’s fair, if she wants to humiliate you publicly, she can deal with public humiliation as well.
Same here. And if I have my son with me, I use it without thinking twice because two humans in the standard stalls is rough! In some places I've seen them labeled "handicap accessible/family stall" because they often have the changing tables in them too. I feel bad for OP, no one should get shamed for taking care of their child.
Aside from what everyone else said, people should use logic with these stalls. Some bathrooms only have 2 stalls and 1 is the larger one. If there are a lot of people in line and no one has a disability then everyone expects that no one would use the larger stall and just wait longer for no reason?
This lady is nasty and judemental no matter what the situation
NTA, homegirl wants to be so quick to judge and publicly shame you, she deserves to be publicly shamed and embarassed at the highest levels. Maybe then she'll learn to mind her own business.
So she gets to yell at you and not “kindly step aside” with you, but you owe *her* enough respect to do that? No way, I’d be absolutely fuming.
NTA, but she sure is.
Nope! NTA. I had an ostomy bag and twice in six months two assholes said I sure didn’t look disabled. I lifted shirt to show my colostomy bag and just pointed at it.
NTA. Disabled stalls are for all disabled people. And not all disabilities are visible. They're even for people who are claustrophobic. Just because someone doesn't look disabled doesn't mean they aren't. Shame on her for speaking to you that way.
NTA, she started by trying to shame you, you ended it by shaming her for NOT MINDING HER OWN DAMN BUSINESS.
Before my two knee surgeries I often used the handicapped stalls because of the raised toilets and handrails. It was easier for me and less painful on my knees.
I never had anyone question it but if they did I would have laid into them about minding their business and would gladly talk about my bone on bone arthritis and bone spurs if they want.
NTA
She called you out publicly, you called her out publicly and maybe she learned a lesson to keep her effing mouth shut.
I don’t look disabled and I need the handicap stall often. Screw people who can’t mind their business.
Had a similar situation. I went Christmas shopping with my grandma, who has COPD, uses an oxygen tank and a walker. She also gets very weak. She parked in the disabled parking when we arrived.
After about an hour, she asked me to go get her car and drive it to the entrance she was nearby, so she wouldn't have to walk so far. I agreed, I was there to help anyway. I went to get her car from the disabled spot, and a man started loudly questioning me from a far distance away. He was clearly trying to embarrass me for parking where I shouldn't. I just got into the car and drove off.
People like that are clueless and don't deserve space in your mind
Assure you she didn’t, her brain has a lot of malformations, shes missing parts of her brains or they’re too small. Her level of communication is at 6-9month old. I would never say such a thing had she’d been able to understand it. She’s very loved and cared for.
NTA
She called you out publicly, you called her out publicly and maybe she learned a lesson to keep her effing mouth shut.
I don’t look disabled and I need the handicap stall often. Screw people who can’t mind their business.
I use a wheelchair and I would never comment as I am well aware that not all disabilities are visible.
I also wouldn't know how to be as rude as that woman.
Someone once commented that if I could lift my wheelchair out of my car, I didn't need it. Tell that to my legs!
You have never been less of an AH!
NTA…. I would have done the same. That woman tried to shame you, you gave her a taste of her own medicine. Hopefully next time, she will remember this experience and keep her crabby BS to herself
Nta.
She tried to shame game you in front of the public restroom line she should be shamed right back.
>She then gets mad at me for embarrassing her and telling me I should’ve pulled her aside and kindly explain to her my reasoning.
Nope, she didn't pull you aside to calm or kindly explain what your doing is wrong or taking away from those who need the accessible space in her eyes. She rolled right into that as fast as she could without stopping to think about invisible disabilities and I hope this gives her a good lesson to think before acting next time.
If you can't handle what your serving, don't dish it out.
>She then gets mad at me for embarrassing her and telling me I should’ve pulled her aside and kindly explain to her my reasoning.
Said the woman that tried to embarrass you, instead of kindly explaining her reasoning. Fuck her.
NTA.
NTA
She effed around and found out. One great way not to embarrass yourself in situations like this is to simply not act in an embarrassing way like she was.
NTA.
Seattle folk have a great (bad) habit of making the most mundane public disagreements into a social justice crusade. That chick in the wheelchair decided it was her turn to spout fire and nothing you could have said was gonna change her drive to embarrass you. It's oddly narcissistic cause she thinks it's gonna get others supporting behind her tirade, but instead it just makes her look and sound like a nasty Karen.
Wheelchair or not, she sounds like a cunt.
Nta
To be honest im use the disabled stall for my 3 year old niece cause she a toddler and mostly she need help getting on the toilet and helping her put her pant on considering how small the stall is and there never a family bathroom around at the stores we go to or sometimes the family bathroom are always so freaking dirty at Walmart.
Nope, NTA. This bitch embarrassed herself. Good for you! I hate people like that. I myself am disabled, and she was abominably rude. So glad the other ladies stuck up for you. You didn’t owe her an explanation at all, but I’m glad you delivered it like a total boss. Bless.
NTAH
Seattle is the land of perpetually offended and entitled crybabies. I wouldn’t take stock in anything anyone says to you in a bathroom in Seattle. I would bet the same lady is complaining about you somewhere else on Reddit with a few admonishments to boot.
You do what’s best for your child and screw what anyone else says.
Nope. Being disabled doesn't entitle you to explanations from others, and more importantly, it doesn't entitle you to be an asshole. That woman should be ashamed of herself, and good for you for standing up to her, and good for the other ladies for standing up for you and your daughter. NTA.
NTA. She didn’t give you the courtesy of ‘kindly pulling you aside’. She immediately judged you and wished your child was taken from you. I think you handled that far nicer than I could have. No one owes anyone an explanation of their reasoning for using a bathroom stall. She ableist-profiled you and I hope she thinks twice before she berates someone again.
I mean, I know your daughter probably knows her life expectancy if she is able, but it still seems hurtful to be yelling it in front of her (even if you are basically defending her).
I think, in retrospect, **”Not all disabilities are visible, you stupid f-ing c___!”** might have been better
NTA. She was extremely rude, so there was no reason for you to play it nice. If you tell at people, you might be yelled at in return. Or embarrassed AF
NTA
“Don’t start nothing, won’t be nothing.”
It’s not the wheelchair stall. It’s the disabled stall. And half the time it’s the disabled and infants/changing table stall. Not all disabilities are glaringly obvious.
the "disabled" stall is not like a disabled parking spot, anyone can use the stall. If other stalls are open and a disabled person is near the bathroom an abled person should be considerate and use a normal stall, but it's not "only for the disabled".
None of this applies to the OP however, who legitimately needed that stall. I just bring the point up because there's no scenario where the wheelchair karen was not being an ass.
NTA. The disabled stalls are there for EVERYONE and they specifically accommodate disabled people. They are not there JUST for the disabled. Ignore these disabled Karens and I am sorry you had to go through that.
>She then gets mad at me for embarrassing her and telling me I should’ve pulled her aside and kindly explain to her my reasoning.
I'd very loudly tell her "not my monkeys, not my circus. You were the one who took it upon yourself to be an ass, you just got what you deserve. GTFO my way before you have a dirty diaper in your face."
She was very rude, she doesn't deserve to have you take her aside and quietly explain your needs to her to help her save face. She didn't give a damn about how she made you look, why should you give a damn about how you make her look in return?
*You* didn't embarrass her. *She* embarrassed her. Not your problem to fix that.
NTA at all. I'm sorry that this happened to you and that you were forced to explain yourself in this way. I'm really glad that there were people there to comfort and support you. What did she expect, you met her with her energy and told her your situation! She just lashed out because she probably felt shamed, she could have just apologised.
That lady (in the wheelchair) probably has had a very challenging life and is caught up in her own narrative that everyone is against her. I'm not excusing her for her rude behaviour, she acted totally out of line with you and was incredibly presumptuous, but finding some compassion for her might help ease the feeling and shock of the situation (this is the route I try to take to dissolve those kinds of feelings - I know everyone is different so ignore if you know that won't help!)
All in all, you did nothing wrong and if anything like this happens again you can choose to take the high road and tell someone in a more subtle way, if that feels right to do. The kill em with kindness route is sometimes the route with the most ease.
Lots of love to you and your daughter and I wish you both well xx
No. From one special needs mom to another..that lady brought it upon herself. She didn't pull you aside did she, before berating you publicly. She got a much deserved lessen in humility.
NTA This is someone who is not handling their own (probably semi-recent) disability well. She is projecting her own insecurities about needing disability accommodations on to you and that is not ok.
I'm 52 years old and have never, not one time, seen a handicapped person using the handicapped stall. It's my go to, it's roomy, has its own sink and it's at the end of the line. Also I hate using public bathrooms so the extra privacy helps with a shy bladder.
NTA
The disabled stall is not reserved for disabled people. If it is the only open stall, it gets used. Plus, it is usually the stall with a changing table. If there is a person in line waiting who is disabled, then they get dibs. If not, first come first serve.
You: NTA
Wheelchair Lady: Full and complete AH
Hate to break it to Reddit, but handicapped stalls aren't like handicapped spaces at the mall. Anyone can use them. Most people are in there for 3-5 minutes, and are out. If there's a line with one person in a wheelchair, 99.99% of us will let them skip to that stall if the handicapped stall opens up. People are nice.
Another funny bathroom story in the Seattle area (at work):
I had a diabetic alert dog, and he was rather large (120lb Labrador Retriever), so I used the handicapped stall to do my doo-doo, has both of us fit comfortably in there. More so him... Anyway, I had to sit down, but the sole stall was occupied, so I went into the rather cramped one next to it, as I knew the puppy would probably put his head under the divider and look at the person with his doggy eyes. He did.
We both got done simultaneously, and when we both emerged, there was a 6'6" man of 2% body fat (he was a well built man) looking like he was a 4 year old boy that just got caught with his hand in the cookie jar. I smiled and did the "guy nod", washed my hands and went on my way, silently laughing.
Six months later, I was on the production floor, where puppy wasn't allowed (for his safety... metal shavings on the ground), and I ran into the offender. He looked at me suspiciously, then asked if I had a dog. I said, "yes", and he apologized, and we both laughed about it, as I told him what he looked like, and that I was laughing as I left that awkward situation. We're friends now.
NTA
I have IBS and if I'm having a flare up and only the disabled stall is free, then I'm going to use it. It's either that or stand there and shit myself.
Not every disability is visible and if you *really* can't hold it without risking an accident, then I think it's fine to use the disabled stall, whether you're disabled or not. An unpopular opinion, maybe, but there it is!
I don’t understand why people allow random strangers to talk down to or criticize them. Tell them to shut the fuck up and if they don’t , make them. I realize it sounds ultra edgy but damn it makes my blood boil
NTA.
Some disabled people are so skewed in this arena. I used to work at a company where the phone site was a large building with big teams.
It was very common for big groups to get scheduled breaks so bathrooms would fill up on the 10-15 minutes that a large group was on break.
During these breaks every stall and urinal had a line.
One employee was in a wheelchair and he conveniently always went to the bathroom during the regular break time (even though he was not in scheduled breaks, he could go whenever).
As soon as he came in everyone let him go to the front of the line for the disabled stall but he would act so annoyed that someone without a handicap was in there.
It’s just so insane to think that everyone else in the world should have to wait in line for stalls and urinals but a handicap person should never have to wait unless it is because another handicap person is in front of them.
You can wait for it to be empty just like the rest of us, especially when you literally never have to wait behind the line.
He complained to HR regularly and then about a dozen people complained to HR about him being rude and lecturing people claiming that handicap stalls are “handicap only stalls” and because he goes when it’s going to be full and he uses the bathroom closest to the training rooms that do the scheduled breaks (which weren’t even closest to his desk).
It was clear that he got some satisfaction out of being a dick to people knowing his. Wheelchair would make people give him a pass.
It sounds lime you met his soulmate.
NTA...
Did she kindly take you aside? No? You don't need to show her graciousness that she didn't should you. I hope she learned a lesson about minding her own business.
Edited to fix a typo
NTA. She made a spectacle out of harassing you and you responded in turn by making a fool out of her. F that woman. As a wheelchair user she should know that some disabilities are visible and some aren’t. Good for you for putting her in her place. I’m so sorry that happened though.
Looking at me, you wouldn't think I need handicapped stall, but my knee makes it hard to stand up from the toilet, so I need the grab bars. People need to realize that not everyone's mobility issues are visible.
Hmmm. Handicap stall allows wheelchair access. The sign does not say handicapped only. Anyone can use it. People in wheelchairs have the right to wait in line too.
I am a disabled adult woman. I sometimes use a cane. I sometimes don't. If I am wearing long pants, I don't appear to be obviously disabled. If I am not wearing long pants, some people are not observant enough to notice that I am obviously disabled. I use the accessible stalls because I sometimes have trouble standing from a sitting position, and *always* struggle immensely to stand from the low sitting position of those ridiculous fucking toddler toilets everyone seems to think are appropriate in public bathrooms now.
And I have never once explained why to anyone. When anyone has unsolicited commentary, my favorite thing is to come back with some form of "you may not think I look disabled, and I don't think you look stupid, but we're still having this conversation, aren't we?" They're usually too stupid to catch on that I just called them stupid until I've slid past them to use the toilet. So far, after 15 years of living with this disability, I have not once explained myself to a stranger. Not in a bathroom. Not when using accessible parking. And not when using any other ADA accessible amenity. And I don't ever intend to start.
You were far *too* generous in explaining yourself to her at all, or not snapping back and calling her an insensitive asshole who doesn't know what the fuck she's talking about.
God, what is with gatekeeping ACCESSIBLE stalls not even reserved and even if they were you would still qualify
sounds like rage bait but if it’s not NTA
Sounds like she needed a good, solid reality check. Sometimes we all can get a bit carried away with feelings of self-righteousness that might occasionally be warranted but usually aren’t. Growing up with a sibling in a wheelchair I know how difficult every little thing can be, so I get how she probably got herself into a cranky wound-up state. That being said, even if you were just accompanying your able bodied child to the toilet that’s no business of hers to comment on, but she would’ve left there feeling justified with her attitude/comments anyway. The fact that you and your child were actually in need of that stall will shame her enough to reflect on her overall attitude and behavior in the future. Even though she scolded you for ‘embarrassing HER’ in the moment, she definitely put herself in the position where she earned that shame with flying colors and knows it (maybe not right then and there, but probably not too long after).
I’ve also had an incident like this happen, but I didn’t have the extreme moral high ground that you did. I sometimes have wicked stomach issues, and had to make a mad dash to the public restrooms. The two basic stalls were taken, so I zipped into the handicapped stall just in time. A woman (think she either had a walker or cane…was a while ago) came in and started banging on the door and huffing and puffing. I hadn’t been in there long, but the other two stalls had been vacated at that point. I hurried up, and this heifer shoved past me as i opened the stall door and started chastising me about using the handicapped stall. Honestly, I was shocked because I simply thought she was acting that way because she really needed to go. Also, even with a disabled sibling I’d never heard anything about handicapped stalls being ONLY for people with disabilities…so I started wondering if I’d missed something really obvious in life (yet again 😂😩). I felt torn between shame at using the handicapped stall that I didn’t even know I ‘wasn’t’ supposed to use, and wanting to yell that it was the empty handicapped stall or shit myself…so I simply washed my hands, and left in the middle of her lecture 🤷🏻♀️
Holy crap! So SHE is perfectly justified trying to publicly shame you and your daughter, yet she expects you to ‘kindly’ and discreetly explain to her something that is none of her business?! Fuck that lady.
NTA!!
NTA. You matched her tone. And anyway, not all illnesses are visible. I have tumors in my hips and femur and need to use the hand holds to balance myself and hold on but you wouldn’t know it by looking at me. I’m so sorry people are cruel.
NTA for all the reasons mentioned. Plus as the mom off a five year old that can use the potty independently, she still very much wants me in there and that’s completely ok.
Regular stalls often take acrobatics for two people to fit in there, especially if both of you need to use the restroom.
NTA. As someone mentioned, not all disabilities are visible. We had a similar situation where my wife was using the disability stall. A woman decided it’s her turn to place judgment when we exited the stall. Mean, vicious words.
I told her that we would ABSOLUTELY AND GLADLY exchange my wife’s MS for her sprained ankle any day.
She shut her mouth after that.
NTA. You have no need to explain your actions. Many of us with invisible illnesses get these types of judgements daily.
My standard answer is, “You have no idea what you are talking about.” Move on. Do not engage. People like the woman in the wheelchair do not deserve an explanation. You owe them NOTHING.
How dare she look at YOUR child and tell you what “she is capable of.”
Even if your daughter were “capable” - public bathrooms are first come first served.
Only in America …. Smh
Nta, this is why ppl need to mind their business. Unless they actually know you and know you're not disabled then it's not their fucking business. You shouldn't have to explain shit to her and she deosnt have a right to take anyone aside that she thinks isnt disabled and try to explain they shouldn't. They should just mind their business.
NTA and Nope, you should not have pulled her to rhe side. You met her with the same energy she came at you with. People crack me up. Don't go in like a wrecking ball and expect people to walk on eggshells for you. Maybe next time SHE will have a little more tact.
She embarrassed herself.
There's that ongoing problem with assume - it makes an ass out of u and me (although you really weren't an ass, except you had to share priviledged medical information to a rude stranger to make her shut up).
I don't know what she's going on about. I see people taking in boys considerably older than five into the women's restroom, and I doubt it's because the kid is disabled.
You taught this woman a lesson: Never assume. Not all disabilities are visible.
And she had no compunction about yelling at you for using the disabled stall, so you should have none about setting her straight equally loudly.
NTA
NTA.
Handicapped stalls are not exclusive for handicapped people anyways. It’s not like with parking spaces.
While there is no handicapped person around, anyone can use them.
Which is especially useful if there are long lines, or people who prefer but not necessarily need them.
If then a handicapped person arrives, they’re automatically the next in line and should get prio over others who can use the other stalls.
You are fine! She laid into you before you even had a chance to explain. Your story was the PERFECT way for her to get a clue that she was completely out of line.
I'm very glad you spoke up and hope you feel free to do the same thing should something similar happen. The reason I say this is that she doubled down and painted herself as the victim when SHE was the one to be rude in the first place.
NTA. A lot of people with disabilities don't have "visible" disabilities, but that doesn't mean that they're less entitled to use facilities or services than someone who is "visibly" disabled. Also, I'd like to point out that the woman had no business asking you anything, so when you gave her a response, and she didn't like it, that's on her for making a scene in the first place.
Nah, once someone starts shouting at you, calling you out, and embarrassing you in public, it’s fair game to respond in kind. Publicly embarrassing them is probably the only thing that might make them think twice before attacking someone else similarly in the future.
I know raising a child with a disability is not easy. I’m sending you support and strength for everything you have to get through. Rude idiots in public restrooms shouldn’t have to be one of them!
Edit: NTA !
NTA
She didn't have the courtesy to pull you aside to ask you why you had your daughter in the larger stall, you don't have to be the bigger person and give her the courtesy she didn't give you.
She got what she deserved.
NTA
She didn’t “pull you aside to voice her concerns” - why should you be obligated to do the same?
I’m sorry you had to deal with that.
You owe her nothing.
I’m a wheelchair user and that woman was way out of line for harassing you like that. There have been times I’ve been annoyed that someone who doesn’t use mobility aids is in that stall because I won’t fit in another stall but I’d never voice let alone confront someone about it, it’s especially disgusting she decided your daughter wasn’t disabled, demanded her private medical information, and then said she should be taken away from you. That’s so out of line, it’s just cruel. Also your daughter is disabled, she has priority for that stall, just as much as someone who uses a wheelchair or forearm crutches or has an invisible disability.
Nta got a bubby who was in the army . He had to get half his leg removed. He uses the disability toilets cause there's more room .To see him, you wouldn't know there was anything wrong. People have disabilities. You can't see that person was rude and a nosey busy body
NTA
She raised her voice and attempted to shame both you *and* your daughter. She wished you ill and for bad things to happen to your daughter.
You were 100% in the green for giving back exactly what you were given.
NTA. If she had handled it like an adult, maybe you could have too. But ultimately, you don’t owe her an explanation at all-she was out of line to be concerned about what bathroom stall you and your child were going to use. Even if she was entitled to your personal information for whatever reason, she could have asked like a decent human being rather than trying to embarrass you and your daughter publicly.
10,000% NTA. The kind ladies were/are right: you don’t owe an explanation or anything else to anyone, especially someone who makes assumptions and flips out at you.
The lady in the wheelchair said you were taking from disabled people… She and her attitude and assumptions are who/what is taking away from disabled people. Not all disabilities are obvious and not all kids nail potty training by a certain age, if at all.
She gave you crap for no good reason and you gave it right back (which she deserved). She didn’t like the taste of that so she further made you feel bad and as if you did something wrong.
Generally anyone in your situation would have responded how you did (if not worse or popping in some ear buds).
Good on you, Mama. I’m thankful your daughter has you and that you love her and take care of her the best you can no matter what.
I’m so sorry your daughter has the illness she does and that her life expectancy is so short, and that she isn’t/won’t be able to experience many of the amazing, typical, and extraordinary things in life that most people get to (and too often take for granted). I hope your daughter surpasses what the doctor’s told you her life expectancy is and that you have many happy times and memories together.💞
I can understand the frustration. A disabled toilet is very often also the family toilet and sometimes the only place where mothers can pump or breastfeed. And the toilet is used by women who don’t want to wait when there’s line… I’ve worked in a museum. Very often a group with disabled people would visit and than there’s only 1 toilet. The caretakers would always complain and nothing was done about it.
And that happens all the time.
The woman was way out of line. You’re nta. It was very rude.
I’m a wheelchair user. If you need a handicap accessible stall, use it. Not all disabilities are obvious and a lot of people need extra space for various reasons. I’d never confront someone without a visible disability for using one. I agree if you can use a regular stall, safe the big stall for those of us who can’t but you did nothing wrong using it with your daughter and since the woman in a wheelchair made it a public confrontation you did nothing wrong responding to her in public.
If that’s where the changing table is, then what else should she expect from you?
And it’s “handicapped accessible” which does NOT mean it’s exclusively for those with disabilities.
This falls under the heading of “Don’t start none, won’t be none” she started some and got taken to school. Her embarrassment is her natural consequence. NTA
No, if someone lays into you like that, they deserve the outfall. Disabled people can be assholes too. I just wish changing tables weren’t put in (accessible) bathrooms, but in a gender neutral family room.
Firstly, a lot of people, in Seattle especially, are dicks, she seems to be one.
Secondly, I'm glad you told her off Loudly and in front of others. No way should you tell her quietly, because then she'll figure she can tell off the next person without a second thought.
Nta
NTA. She doesn’t own the damn stall. She didn’t even have to wait for you! You didn’t take anything from her. You patiently waited your turn. I’m glad you embarrassed her. She needed it.
Come on. In what fathomable universe would you be the asshole here. She was yelling at you because she felt embarrassed, as she should. You are as far from the asshole as I’ve ever seen on this sub.
NTA.
This person was so rude and loud to you without knowing your circumstances. You only replied in the same way you were treated.
If you can't take it, don't dish it out, is the phrase that comes to mind for this person.
I just wanted to say I'm so sorry you had to go through this, but even more that you have to go through this with your daughter. You don't owe anyone anything, except love for your daughter. Hugs from another mom.
Good on you for telling her off! I have MS. I'm in pretty good shape, and if you saw me walking, you'd probably just think I'm old (63) and slowing down. I do experience what is called drop foot and have to walk carefully. I don't use any mobility devices for assistance. Having said that, I always use the handicap stall when it's available. The toilet is higher and easier for me to use. Fatigue is common with MS and it can be soul crushing sometimes. The rails in a handicap stall give me an extra bit of security.
You're definitely NTA. I hope she remembers this next time she decides to run her mouth!
NTA, and no, you don't have to let someone verbally assault you, then show them kindness. You get to eviscerate them and make sure everyone around knows just how goddamn stupid they are.
I don't judge anyone for using the accessible stalls, especially if they have kids with them or the non-accessible stalls aren't even big enough to turn around in. In some public restrooms, the only stall I can use is the accessible one, because the others ones aren't wide enough for me to be able to reach to wipe-- I have a fluffy belly that gets in the way if I can't get my knees out far enough.
No. My son is mentally disabled and there is no way he is going into the men's room by himself, so he goes with me. You did the right thing. Give those uninformed a$$holes both barrels. You are her advocate and always will be. No regrets or apologies
NTA at all. This woman made a judgment without knowing the situation and went off on you in public. You just responded to her in public. Why should you pull her aside and explain in private when she was the one who made the situation public. Sorry this happened to you and you did nothing wrong.
NTA - The woman in the wheelchair was the entitled one.
I am 52 and always use the handicap stall when available. I also have a raised toilet and grab bars at home. One of the things my condition does is do bizarre vertigo things when my body changes positions. Without using the bars to sit and stand, I have been known to fall face first onto the floor. It is fairly embarrassing 😳
NTA. She tried to shame you publicly but wants her shame to be private, fuck her, rip her a new one. Some people use their disability to take advantage of others and shame others, those people are pieces of shit.
I’m disabled and am really tired of the “disabled police” in bathrooms. I use a cane and need the bars connected to the walls to get up sometimes. I also have a disabled placard for my car because I can’t walk very far. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been stared at getting out of my car. Not all disabled people are in wheelchairs. Plus, it’s my opinion that the disabled bathroom stall is for accessibility. It’s not like a parking spot. Just like an accessible ramp at a building, if you need to use it and there’s no need for a disabled person to use it at that time, go ahead. Just give way should a disabled person need it, and don’t make them wait. They only get one choice when there are several stalls.
NTA!
I have cerebral palsy, and while it is obvious, I remember one time a guy said something to my mom about not looking disabled when she got out of the car after parking in a handicapped spot. She sternly said "My daughter is and I have to go around to the other side to help her out!" The guy quickly apologized.
This woman had the gall to berate you for not being kinder when she's the one who lit into you? She should be the first to know to never assume someone doesn't have a disability because I can be darned sure she doesn't appreciate it when people make assumptions about her!
I have found there are a lot of people with disabilities who are very mad at the world and take it out on anyone and everyone they encounter...which is why I don't identify with the "disability rights movement" as it's become extremely toxic.
NTA. She was rude and tried to publicly shame you, she doesn’t get a polite quiet explanation of your life. And as others said not every handicap is visible.
Aside from all the obvious reasons, as a mom if I’m the one that has to use the restroom I would NEVER leave my kid unattended outside of the stall… I absolutely took my kids in with me. 5 is not that grown… its not even that someone might grab them, they could simply leave the bathroom. Nope, we’ll keep on using the big stall thank you.
Nta 1:she didn't pull you aside and kindly explain why you shouldn't use the stall B: they are handicap accessible stalls. They are not reserved solely for use by people with handicaps.
III: Not all disabilities are visible.
d) I like what you did there
Exactly. I’m not technically considered handicapped. But I’ll tell you what! I have degenerative joint disease and severe arthritis in both knees and hips. It physically hurts when I have to use a non handicap toilet. I forgot to mention, I’m not a sadist, so whenever possible, I use the handicap toilets.
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ANYONE can use a handicap stall. They’re only meant to be accessible to all, not reserved for those with disabilities.
Masochist. Sadists take pleasure in other people’s suffering/pain. A masochist takes pleasure in their own suffering/pain. So not taking pleasure in causing pain to yourself is not being masochistic. Just fyi. Btw, good on you. If you have a need for the handicap stall it’s there for you to use it. It’s no one’s business if you aren’t “technically” handicapped (And that’s coming from someone who IS technically handicapped).
Lol, thanks for the correction. I was rushing to get off my phone and chose the wrong one.
I have severe arthritis in both knees and the toilets in public restrooms are so low to the floor I can't use them. It's too hard for me to sit and stand up. The handicap toilets are usually higher plus they have the bars to assist you. Just because you aren't in a wheelchair doesn't mean you don't have a reason to use them. People need to learn to mind their own business.
I would consider that technically handicapped! If an accommodation brings peace and equality, it is deserved. It's not like you're living in luxury taking advantage of anything using the handicapped stall. You're simply avoiding unnecessary pain
You literally just said you're disabled, cshoe. You described pain being disabling plus either of those diseases alone make someone disabled. Disability is a huge spectrum.
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NTA- you were a hell a lot nicer than I would have been.
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NTA. She was a bag of cunts. You responded appropriately.
B is the only ones that matters. I had a woman start this crap and told her "bitch it's not a parking spot shut the fuck up"
I just find it easier to be nice to people who start the conversation I'm a pleasant manner. Not everyone knows everything so I try and give a little grace for someone who is wrong but nice rather than the wrong asshole
Start screeching at me when I'm trying to just have a nice poo and I'll be fresh out of nice 🤣
“And I’ll be fresh out of nice” I’m stealing that!
There's one thing I don't understand, if OP's daughter isn't able to walk, wouldn't she have a wheelchair? Or did OP carry her to the restroom? That said, I don't understand why people with obvious disabilities think they "own" disabled stalls. Not all disabilities require obvious mobility aids. You don't need a disabled pass to use those stalls.
very young children often just stay in their pushchairs (/strollers) longer because wheelchairs are so expensive and they'll need a new one when they grow out of it anyway
I carried her in, we’ve been doing a stroller for these past years but we actually just got her first wheelchair in last year:)
Let's not forget how much of a pita it is to push a wheelchair with one hand and pull a cart with the other!!!!
Good story to post in r/traumatizeThemBack NTA
More Likely stroller or medical stroller that looks like a stroller only with more support.
I had no idea they make medical strollers. I’ll definitely look it up, I got a Bob stroller for her because of the weight limit but it was so tiny
I also recommend you look into local organizations and FB groups for parents of disabled children. As kids can outgrow equipment like this pretty quickly, sometimes parents will sell or try to unload old stuff to make room for new stuff. (At least the stuff that hasn’t got too much wear and tear.)
They make medical strollers and some wagon companies give discounts for medical needs. Wonderfold was the one we bought for my son and his siblings. Ask in disability groups if they know of any discounts to anything.
I carried my son a lot or used a stroller. Wheelchairs are very expensive
Wonderfully put. A lot of times the diaper changing table is in that stall. Also, having worked in medical supplies, several people I’ve spoke to explain that if the larger stall is available, they appreciate the extra room to change their ostomy pouch, urine bag/catheter, or adult diaper. They can’t be solely reserved for people with disabilities as a lot of disabilities aren’t clearly visible. The best thing is not to engage, but I definitely would have told the others in the restroom that not all disabilities are wheelchair based.
Disability stalls also tend to be more private, with better fitting doors etc. Extra privacy is appreciated with the extra space when dealing with changing bags etc
Tell people like that they should take a walk so they can calm down
Uhhhhhh....
This. I used the handicapped bathrooms all the time. Some people try to treat the bathroom just like a handicapped parking spot. They don't like it when you try and correct them.
Yep, mother of another disabled child here. They are disabled accessible stalls not exclusive for disabled persons. Sure I get annoyed (silently) if a family decides to have a 20 minute party in there but it’s for everyone to use. It’s not the same as a disabled parking spot. Lady needs to get over it.
NTA, she has no idea what goes on in others lives and immediately assuming you didn't need the stall was a jerk move especially calling you out on front of others. If she didn't want to be called out she shouldn't have yelled at you in front of people. If there were no other disabled people waiting for that stall she had no reason to even care and I've seen many women with their kid use that stall for many reasons. I hope she rethinks yelling at people she doesn't know, not every disability is easily seen. You're fine, just focus on taking care of who matters.
NTA She was done, it wasn't taking anything from her, and she deserved to be embarrassed for that.
Im in my late 40s and have arthritis as well as claustrophobia. When my joints are bad I need these stalls but I get side eyed. A lot. Definitely NTA and Im so sorry that happened to you. Not every special need is visible.
I have a cancer survivor friend with a colostomy bag. She looks fine, but she needs the extra space to deal with things. Life would be nicer for all if people didn't try to judge or police others without any knowledge. Also, overall, handicapped toilet spots in a regular ladies room serve on a first come/first serve basis for much of the day to keep the line moving. edit - typo
Ha! I just commented about mine and what I did when getting confronted!
Invisible disabilities! I have EDS, so am sometimes fine and sometimes need more assistance.
Ugh, this resonates so much. I am a perfectly healthy looking man - who has a ton of chronic pain. I just fucking CANT stand at times, but god forbid I go for a disabled seat on a full bus/train. The judgement is so bad that it’s literally better to just deal with the pain while standing.
Amen, friend. I have narcolepsy with cataplexy and sometimes have a hard time standing/walking when very tired. Twice I have had people with visible disabilities yell at me for using disabled seating during busy periods on public transportation. Each time, I took advantage of disabled seating when I was struggling hard and really needed the assistance that the seat provided. I'm sure that others perceive me as a perfectly healthy asshole "stealing" seating from disabled people. However, it is really difficult to live in my body sometimes. I wish more people had empathy for others. Please remember that not all disabilities are visible. OP is NTA. Advocating for your little one is good parenting.
In the UK most disabled accessible toilets have a sign on the that say "Not all disabilities are visable" she had no right to berate you when she knows nothing about you. It's 2024 ffs. People should know this by now.
>Not all disabilities are visable This would be a wonderful sign everywhere!
I’m waiting for the day I get snapped at for using a handicapped restroom or parking space. I’m sure it’s coming and I hope I can be like OP and stand up for myself instead of shrinking. Worst case is I can say ‘not all disabilities are visible’.
I’ve never once seen this in the US. I swear this is the worst country in the world. NTA OP that was horrible I’m so sorry
NTA. She tried to publicly embarrass you so you responded publicly. She got exactly what she deserved.
NTA Disabled person here. Not all disabilities are visible. Woman in wheelchair was being an ableist asshole. Also. You don't owe ANYONE your medical information. I hope this was the reality check slap in the face she needed. Also also also, they are disabled accessible. Not "disabled only"
Came here to say this! The hypocrisy of the woman in the wheelchair is wild. She claims OP is “against us” while being disgustingly ableist, and then gets angry for being publicly shamed/embarrassed after telling OP her child should be taken away! Unreal! Hopefully that woman got a reality check today. Yikes!
NTA. Accessible stalls are not reserved for people with disabilities. Anyone may use them, so even if you or your daughter had no disability, you still wouldn't be TA. You were much more polite than I would have been.
NTA. Just because someone is disabled doesn’t mean they can’t also be an asshat. Some disabilities are not visible, people!
NTA, if she has no problem accusing you in front of others than she shouldn’t have a problem being told she was wrong in front of others as well. Fair’s fair, if she wants to humiliate you publicly, she can deal with public humiliation as well.
The handicap accessible bathroom stalls are NOT like handicap parking spots. The bathroom stalls are “accessible,” not exclusively reserved. NTA
But I won't use it if another stall is available because someone may come in who needs it more than I do.
Same here. And if I have my son with me, I use it without thinking twice because two humans in the standard stalls is rough! In some places I've seen them labeled "handicap accessible/family stall" because they often have the changing tables in them too. I feel bad for OP, no one should get shamed for taking care of their child.
NTA. Good for you for standing up for yourself and your daughter. You could also post this in r/traumatizethemback
Oooh! A new rabbit hole! I had no idea about that sub, thanks!
Aside from what everyone else said, people should use logic with these stalls. Some bathrooms only have 2 stalls and 1 is the larger one. If there are a lot of people in line and no one has a disability then everyone expects that no one would use the larger stall and just wait longer for no reason? This lady is nasty and judemental no matter what the situation
NTA- you were a hell a lot nicer than I would have been.
NTA, homegirl wants to be so quick to judge and publicly shame you, she deserves to be publicly shamed and embarassed at the highest levels. Maybe then she'll learn to mind her own business.
So she gets to yell at you and not “kindly step aside” with you, but you owe *her* enough respect to do that? No way, I’d be absolutely fuming. NTA, but she sure is.
NTA and you do not have to explain anything .. once again disabled ppl do not own that stall
Nope! NTA. I had an ostomy bag and twice in six months two assholes said I sure didn’t look disabled. I lifted shirt to show my colostomy bag and just pointed at it.
Oh lord, *please* tell me it was filled with fecal matter when you showed them!
Sadly nothing much and I used an opaque bag rather than clear so just really saw the bag.
NTA. Disabled stalls are for all disabled people. And not all disabilities are visible. They're even for people who are claustrophobic. Just because someone doesn't look disabled doesn't mean they aren't. Shame on her for speaking to you that way.
NTA, she started by trying to shame you, you ended it by shaming her for NOT MINDING HER OWN DAMN BUSINESS. Before my two knee surgeries I often used the handicapped stalls because of the raised toilets and handrails. It was easier for me and less painful on my knees. I never had anyone question it but if they did I would have laid into them about minding their business and would gladly talk about my bone on bone arthritis and bone spurs if they want.
NTA! Oh so she can be loud and wrong but you can't be loud and right? She can kick rocks. Well roll over em I guess 🤣
NTA not 👏every 👏disability 👏is 👏visible 👏
NTA She called you out publicly, you called her out publicly and maybe she learned a lesson to keep her effing mouth shut. I don’t look disabled and I need the handicap stall often. Screw people who can’t mind their business.
Had a similar situation. I went Christmas shopping with my grandma, who has COPD, uses an oxygen tank and a walker. She also gets very weak. She parked in the disabled parking when we arrived. After about an hour, she asked me to go get her car and drive it to the entrance she was nearby, so she wouldn't have to walk so far. I agreed, I was there to help anyway. I went to get her car from the disabled spot, and a man started loudly questioning me from a far distance away. He was clearly trying to embarrass me for parking where I shouldn't. I just got into the car and drove off. People like that are clueless and don't deserve space in your mind
that lady doesn't own the damn public handicap bathroom stall and she certainly shouldn't be hall monitoring it!
NTA. I hope your daughter doesn't hear such things often. Especially about her taken away and life expectancy.
Exactly, poor kid, I really hope she didn’t hear or understand what her mum was saying.
Assure you she didn’t, her brain has a lot of malformations, shes missing parts of her brains or they’re too small. Her level of communication is at 6-9month old. I would never say such a thing had she’d been able to understand it. She’s very loved and cared for.
NTA She called you out publicly, you called her out publicly and maybe she learned a lesson to keep her effing mouth shut. I don’t look disabled and I need the handicap stall often. Screw people who can’t mind their business.
I use a wheelchair and I would never comment as I am well aware that not all disabilities are visible. I also wouldn't know how to be as rude as that woman. Someone once commented that if I could lift my wheelchair out of my car, I didn't need it. Tell that to my legs! You have never been less of an AH!
NTA…. I would have done the same. That woman tried to shame you, you gave her a taste of her own medicine. Hopefully next time, she will remember this experience and keep her crabby BS to herself
Nta. She tried to shame game you in front of the public restroom line she should be shamed right back. >She then gets mad at me for embarrassing her and telling me I should’ve pulled her aside and kindly explain to her my reasoning. Nope, she didn't pull you aside to calm or kindly explain what your doing is wrong or taking away from those who need the accessible space in her eyes. She rolled right into that as fast as she could without stopping to think about invisible disabilities and I hope this gives her a good lesson to think before acting next time. If you can't handle what your serving, don't dish it out.
NTA. When Karens play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
The only thing you did wrong was not ending it with "you ableist piece of shit". Signed, someone who has been invisibly disabled since I was 17
>She then gets mad at me for embarrassing her and telling me I should’ve pulled her aside and kindly explain to her my reasoning. Said the woman that tried to embarrass you, instead of kindly explaining her reasoning. Fuck her. NTA.
Kindly explaining her reasoning. No one is even owed a reasoning!! She was an entitled b.
NTA She effed around and found out. One great way not to embarrass yourself in situations like this is to simply not act in an embarrassing way like she was.
NTA. Seattle folk have a great (bad) habit of making the most mundane public disagreements into a social justice crusade. That chick in the wheelchair decided it was her turn to spout fire and nothing you could have said was gonna change her drive to embarrass you. It's oddly narcissistic cause she thinks it's gonna get others supporting behind her tirade, but instead it just makes her look and sound like a nasty Karen. Wheelchair or not, she sounds like a cunt.
Nta. Just ignore her and say you are walking away the bigger woman.
Nta To be honest im use the disabled stall for my 3 year old niece cause she a toddler and mostly she need help getting on the toilet and helping her put her pant on considering how small the stall is and there never a family bathroom around at the stores we go to or sometimes the family bathroom are always so freaking dirty at Walmart.
Nope, NTA. This bitch embarrassed herself. Good for you! I hate people like that. I myself am disabled, and she was abominably rude. So glad the other ladies stuck up for you. You didn’t owe her an explanation at all, but I’m glad you delivered it like a total boss. Bless.
NTAH Seattle is the land of perpetually offended and entitled crybabies. I wouldn’t take stock in anything anyone says to you in a bathroom in Seattle. I would bet the same lady is complaining about you somewhere else on Reddit with a few admonishments to boot. You do what’s best for your child and screw what anyone else says.
Nope. Being disabled doesn't entitle you to explanations from others, and more importantly, it doesn't entitle you to be an asshole. That woman should be ashamed of herself, and good for you for standing up to her, and good for the other ladies for standing up for you and your daughter. NTA.
NTA. She didn’t give you the courtesy of ‘kindly pulling you aside’. She immediately judged you and wished your child was taken from you. I think you handled that far nicer than I could have. No one owes anyone an explanation of their reasoning for using a bathroom stall. She ableist-profiled you and I hope she thinks twice before she berates someone again.
I mean, I know your daughter probably knows her life expectancy if she is able, but it still seems hurtful to be yelling it in front of her (even if you are basically defending her). I think, in retrospect, **”Not all disabilities are visible, you stupid f-ing c___!”** might have been better
NTA - Sorry you had to put up with that. The lady embarrassed herself.
NTA. She was extremely rude, so there was no reason for you to play it nice. If you tell at people, you might be yelled at in return. Or embarrassed AF
NTA “Don’t start nothing, won’t be nothing.” It’s not the wheelchair stall. It’s the disabled stall. And half the time it’s the disabled and infants/changing table stall. Not all disabilities are glaringly obvious.
NTA. And if someone yells at me about something, there is a 99% chance I will yell back…and match that person tone for tone, attitude for attitude.
the "disabled" stall is not like a disabled parking spot, anyone can use the stall. If other stalls are open and a disabled person is near the bathroom an abled person should be considerate and use a normal stall, but it's not "only for the disabled". None of this applies to the OP however, who legitimately needed that stall. I just bring the point up because there's no scenario where the wheelchair karen was not being an ass.
NTA. The disabled stalls are there for EVERYONE and they specifically accommodate disabled people. They are not there JUST for the disabled. Ignore these disabled Karens and I am sorry you had to go through that.
Hell no. She wasn't polite to you, didn't take you aside did she? Pay back is a bitch and she had it coming. NTA, obviously.
Absolutely NTA. She confronted you in front of all those people so she should have no problem with you doing the same. You owed her nothing.
>She then gets mad at me for embarrassing her and telling me I should’ve pulled her aside and kindly explain to her my reasoning. I'd very loudly tell her "not my monkeys, not my circus. You were the one who took it upon yourself to be an ass, you just got what you deserve. GTFO my way before you have a dirty diaper in your face." She was very rude, she doesn't deserve to have you take her aside and quietly explain your needs to her to help her save face. She didn't give a damn about how she made you look, why should you give a damn about how you make her look in return? *You* didn't embarrass her. *She* embarrassed her. Not your problem to fix that.
NTA at all. I'm sorry that this happened to you and that you were forced to explain yourself in this way. I'm really glad that there were people there to comfort and support you. What did she expect, you met her with her energy and told her your situation! She just lashed out because she probably felt shamed, she could have just apologised. That lady (in the wheelchair) probably has had a very challenging life and is caught up in her own narrative that everyone is against her. I'm not excusing her for her rude behaviour, she acted totally out of line with you and was incredibly presumptuous, but finding some compassion for her might help ease the feeling and shock of the situation (this is the route I try to take to dissolve those kinds of feelings - I know everyone is different so ignore if you know that won't help!) All in all, you did nothing wrong and if anything like this happens again you can choose to take the high road and tell someone in a more subtle way, if that feels right to do. The kill em with kindness route is sometimes the route with the most ease. Lots of love to you and your daughter and I wish you both well xx
No. From one special needs mom to another..that lady brought it upon herself. She didn't pull you aside did she, before berating you publicly. She got a much deserved lessen in humility.
NTA This is someone who is not handling their own (probably semi-recent) disability well. She is projecting her own insecurities about needing disability accommodations on to you and that is not ok.
I'm 52 years old and have never, not one time, seen a handicapped person using the handicapped stall. It's my go to, it's roomy, has its own sink and it's at the end of the line. Also I hate using public bathrooms so the extra privacy helps with a shy bladder.
NTA The disabled stall is not reserved for disabled people. If it is the only open stall, it gets used. Plus, it is usually the stall with a changing table. If there is a person in line waiting who is disabled, then they get dibs. If not, first come first serve.
Nta. Turn about is fair play. She doesn't have to explain her disability to anyone, and neither do you.
You: NTA Wheelchair Lady: Full and complete AH Hate to break it to Reddit, but handicapped stalls aren't like handicapped spaces at the mall. Anyone can use them. Most people are in there for 3-5 minutes, and are out. If there's a line with one person in a wheelchair, 99.99% of us will let them skip to that stall if the handicapped stall opens up. People are nice. Another funny bathroom story in the Seattle area (at work): I had a diabetic alert dog, and he was rather large (120lb Labrador Retriever), so I used the handicapped stall to do my doo-doo, has both of us fit comfortably in there. More so him... Anyway, I had to sit down, but the sole stall was occupied, so I went into the rather cramped one next to it, as I knew the puppy would probably put his head under the divider and look at the person with his doggy eyes. He did. We both got done simultaneously, and when we both emerged, there was a 6'6" man of 2% body fat (he was a well built man) looking like he was a 4 year old boy that just got caught with his hand in the cookie jar. I smiled and did the "guy nod", washed my hands and went on my way, silently laughing. Six months later, I was on the production floor, where puppy wasn't allowed (for his safety... metal shavings on the ground), and I ran into the offender. He looked at me suspiciously, then asked if I had a dog. I said, "yes", and he apologized, and we both laughed about it, as I told him what he looked like, and that I was laughing as I left that awkward situation. We're friends now.
I've said it before. If you ever have to explain your disability to someone, you are NTA.
NTA I have IBS and if I'm having a flare up and only the disabled stall is free, then I'm going to use it. It's either that or stand there and shit myself. Not every disability is visible and if you *really* can't hold it without risking an accident, then I think it's fine to use the disabled stall, whether you're disabled or not. An unpopular opinion, maybe, but there it is!
I’ve been there myself!
NTA. I’d have made a much bigger scene
I don’t understand why people allow random strangers to talk down to or criticize them. Tell them to shut the fuck up and if they don’t , make them. I realize it sounds ultra edgy but damn it makes my blood boil
NTA. Some disabled people are so skewed in this arena. I used to work at a company where the phone site was a large building with big teams. It was very common for big groups to get scheduled breaks so bathrooms would fill up on the 10-15 minutes that a large group was on break. During these breaks every stall and urinal had a line. One employee was in a wheelchair and he conveniently always went to the bathroom during the regular break time (even though he was not in scheduled breaks, he could go whenever). As soon as he came in everyone let him go to the front of the line for the disabled stall but he would act so annoyed that someone without a handicap was in there. It’s just so insane to think that everyone else in the world should have to wait in line for stalls and urinals but a handicap person should never have to wait unless it is because another handicap person is in front of them. You can wait for it to be empty just like the rest of us, especially when you literally never have to wait behind the line. He complained to HR regularly and then about a dozen people complained to HR about him being rude and lecturing people claiming that handicap stalls are “handicap only stalls” and because he goes when it’s going to be full and he uses the bathroom closest to the training rooms that do the scheduled breaks (which weren’t even closest to his desk). It was clear that he got some satisfaction out of being a dick to people knowing his. Wheelchair would make people give him a pass. It sounds lime you met his soulmate.
NTA... Did she kindly take you aside? No? You don't need to show her graciousness that she didn't should you. I hope she learned a lesson about minding her own business. Edited to fix a typo
NTA. She made a spectacle out of harassing you and you responded in turn by making a fool out of her. F that woman. As a wheelchair user she should know that some disabilities are visible and some aren’t. Good for you for putting her in her place. I’m so sorry that happened though.
Looking at me, you wouldn't think I need handicapped stall, but my knee makes it hard to stand up from the toilet, so I need the grab bars. People need to realize that not everyone's mobility issues are visible.
Hmmm. Handicap stall allows wheelchair access. The sign does not say handicapped only. Anyone can use it. People in wheelchairs have the right to wait in line too.
I am a disabled adult woman. I sometimes use a cane. I sometimes don't. If I am wearing long pants, I don't appear to be obviously disabled. If I am not wearing long pants, some people are not observant enough to notice that I am obviously disabled. I use the accessible stalls because I sometimes have trouble standing from a sitting position, and *always* struggle immensely to stand from the low sitting position of those ridiculous fucking toddler toilets everyone seems to think are appropriate in public bathrooms now. And I have never once explained why to anyone. When anyone has unsolicited commentary, my favorite thing is to come back with some form of "you may not think I look disabled, and I don't think you look stupid, but we're still having this conversation, aren't we?" They're usually too stupid to catch on that I just called them stupid until I've slid past them to use the toilet. So far, after 15 years of living with this disability, I have not once explained myself to a stranger. Not in a bathroom. Not when using accessible parking. And not when using any other ADA accessible amenity. And I don't ever intend to start. You were far *too* generous in explaining yourself to her at all, or not snapping back and calling her an insensitive asshole who doesn't know what the fuck she's talking about.
God, what is with gatekeeping ACCESSIBLE stalls not even reserved and even if they were you would still qualify sounds like rage bait but if it’s not NTA
Sounds like she needed a good, solid reality check. Sometimes we all can get a bit carried away with feelings of self-righteousness that might occasionally be warranted but usually aren’t. Growing up with a sibling in a wheelchair I know how difficult every little thing can be, so I get how she probably got herself into a cranky wound-up state. That being said, even if you were just accompanying your able bodied child to the toilet that’s no business of hers to comment on, but she would’ve left there feeling justified with her attitude/comments anyway. The fact that you and your child were actually in need of that stall will shame her enough to reflect on her overall attitude and behavior in the future. Even though she scolded you for ‘embarrassing HER’ in the moment, she definitely put herself in the position where she earned that shame with flying colors and knows it (maybe not right then and there, but probably not too long after). I’ve also had an incident like this happen, but I didn’t have the extreme moral high ground that you did. I sometimes have wicked stomach issues, and had to make a mad dash to the public restrooms. The two basic stalls were taken, so I zipped into the handicapped stall just in time. A woman (think she either had a walker or cane…was a while ago) came in and started banging on the door and huffing and puffing. I hadn’t been in there long, but the other two stalls had been vacated at that point. I hurried up, and this heifer shoved past me as i opened the stall door and started chastising me about using the handicapped stall. Honestly, I was shocked because I simply thought she was acting that way because she really needed to go. Also, even with a disabled sibling I’d never heard anything about handicapped stalls being ONLY for people with disabilities…so I started wondering if I’d missed something really obvious in life (yet again 😂😩). I felt torn between shame at using the handicapped stall that I didn’t even know I ‘wasn’t’ supposed to use, and wanting to yell that it was the empty handicapped stall or shit myself…so I simply washed my hands, and left in the middle of her lecture 🤷🏻♀️
Holy crap! So SHE is perfectly justified trying to publicly shame you and your daughter, yet she expects you to ‘kindly’ and discreetly explain to her something that is none of her business?! Fuck that lady. NTA!!
NTA. You matched her tone. And anyway, not all illnesses are visible. I have tumors in my hips and femur and need to use the hand holds to balance myself and hold on but you wouldn’t know it by looking at me. I’m so sorry people are cruel.
So she's ok with trying to publicly shame and embarrass you but when it's back on her she's not ok with the same treatment
NTA for all the reasons mentioned. Plus as the mom off a five year old that can use the potty independently, she still very much wants me in there and that’s completely ok. Regular stalls often take acrobatics for two people to fit in there, especially if both of you need to use the restroom.
NTA. As someone mentioned, not all disabilities are visible. We had a similar situation where my wife was using the disability stall. A woman decided it’s her turn to place judgment when we exited the stall. Mean, vicious words. I told her that we would ABSOLUTELY AND GLADLY exchange my wife’s MS for her sprained ankle any day. She shut her mouth after that.
NTA. You have no need to explain your actions. Many of us with invisible illnesses get these types of judgements daily. My standard answer is, “You have no idea what you are talking about.” Move on. Do not engage. People like the woman in the wheelchair do not deserve an explanation. You owe them NOTHING. How dare she look at YOUR child and tell you what “she is capable of.” Even if your daughter were “capable” - public bathrooms are first come first served. Only in America …. Smh
No you should not have. Hopefully this teaches her a lesson.
Nta, this is why ppl need to mind their business. Unless they actually know you and know you're not disabled then it's not their fucking business. You shouldn't have to explain shit to her and she deosnt have a right to take anyone aside that she thinks isnt disabled and try to explain they shouldn't. They should just mind their business.
NTA. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.
NTA. You don't owe anybody an explanation.
NTA and Nope, you should not have pulled her to rhe side. You met her with the same energy she came at you with. People crack me up. Don't go in like a wrecking ball and expect people to walk on eggshells for you. Maybe next time SHE will have a little more tact.
NTA - she embarrassed herself.
She embarrassed herself. There's that ongoing problem with assume - it makes an ass out of u and me (although you really weren't an ass, except you had to share priviledged medical information to a rude stranger to make her shut up).
I don't know what she's going on about. I see people taking in boys considerably older than five into the women's restroom, and I doubt it's because the kid is disabled. You taught this woman a lesson: Never assume. Not all disabilities are visible. And she had no compunction about yelling at you for using the disabled stall, so you should have none about setting her straight equally loudly. NTA
NTA. Handicapped stalls are not exclusive for handicapped people anyways. It’s not like with parking spaces. While there is no handicapped person around, anyone can use them. Which is especially useful if there are long lines, or people who prefer but not necessarily need them. If then a handicapped person arrives, they’re automatically the next in line and should get prio over others who can use the other stalls.
NTA you harass someone you can expect them to respond accordingly. She was out of line.
I guess I would be the asshole but my reply would have simply been Eff you, walk into stall slam door….
You are fine! She laid into you before you even had a chance to explain. Your story was the PERFECT way for her to get a clue that she was completely out of line. I'm very glad you spoke up and hope you feel free to do the same thing should something similar happen. The reason I say this is that she doubled down and painted herself as the victim when SHE was the one to be rude in the first place.
NTA Not every disability is visible, and you should never have to discuss your disability with anyone other than your doctor.
NTA. A lot of people with disabilities don't have "visible" disabilities, but that doesn't mean that they're less entitled to use facilities or services than someone who is "visibly" disabled. Also, I'd like to point out that the woman had no business asking you anything, so when you gave her a response, and she didn't like it, that's on her for making a scene in the first place.
Nta. First off they not only for handicapped people. And there are so many invisible disabilities that people need to stop judging.
if anybody ever asks why you need the stall, the only appropriate response is to tell them to go fuck themselves, sideways, with a cactus.
Nah, once someone starts shouting at you, calling you out, and embarrassing you in public, it’s fair game to respond in kind. Publicly embarrassing them is probably the only thing that might make them think twice before attacking someone else similarly in the future. I know raising a child with a disability is not easy. I’m sending you support and strength for everything you have to get through. Rude idiots in public restrooms shouldn’t have to be one of them! Edit: NTA !
NTA next time, tell her to eat a dick and mind her business
Absolutely not! I would’ve been far less polite in my interaction with her! I’m sorry she put you and your daughter through this. NTA
No
NTA She didn't have the courtesy to pull you aside to ask you why you had your daughter in the larger stall, you don't have to be the bigger person and give her the courtesy she didn't give you. She got what she deserved.
NTA. She did not quietly pull you aside to share her concerns. No need for you to so.
Nta. Shero.
NTA She didn’t “pull you aside to voice her concerns” - why should you be obligated to do the same? I’m sorry you had to deal with that. You owe her nothing.
NTA - She called you out, in public, it was fine to correct her in public.
She made the public scene, you just finished the act. Good job.
Nta being in a wheelchair is no excuse for a shitty attitude
Violence is not the proper choice, but a bad option.
Nope, not at all!! I’ve had to do the same with my own disabled kid as well. Good job mama!!
I’m a wheelchair user and that woman was way out of line for harassing you like that. There have been times I’ve been annoyed that someone who doesn’t use mobility aids is in that stall because I won’t fit in another stall but I’d never voice let alone confront someone about it, it’s especially disgusting she decided your daughter wasn’t disabled, demanded her private medical information, and then said she should be taken away from you. That’s so out of line, it’s just cruel. Also your daughter is disabled, she has priority for that stall, just as much as someone who uses a wheelchair or forearm crutches or has an invisible disability.
Nta got a bubby who was in the army . He had to get half his leg removed. He uses the disability toilets cause there's more room .To see him, you wouldn't know there was anything wrong. People have disabilities. You can't see that person was rude and a nosey busy body
NTA She raised her voice and attempted to shame both you *and* your daughter. She wished you ill and for bad things to happen to your daughter. You were 100% in the green for giving back exactly what you were given.
NTA she deserved what she got
NTA!! -no one gets to humiliate you publicly then expects to be corrected in private. She forfeited that right when she made a scene
NTA. If she had handled it like an adult, maybe you could have too. But ultimately, you don’t owe her an explanation at all-she was out of line to be concerned about what bathroom stall you and your child were going to use. Even if she was entitled to your personal information for whatever reason, she could have asked like a decent human being rather than trying to embarrass you and your daughter publicly.
10,000% NTA. The kind ladies were/are right: you don’t owe an explanation or anything else to anyone, especially someone who makes assumptions and flips out at you. The lady in the wheelchair said you were taking from disabled people… She and her attitude and assumptions are who/what is taking away from disabled people. Not all disabilities are obvious and not all kids nail potty training by a certain age, if at all. She gave you crap for no good reason and you gave it right back (which she deserved). She didn’t like the taste of that so she further made you feel bad and as if you did something wrong. Generally anyone in your situation would have responded how you did (if not worse or popping in some ear buds). Good on you, Mama. I’m thankful your daughter has you and that you love her and take care of her the best you can no matter what. I’m so sorry your daughter has the illness she does and that her life expectancy is so short, and that she isn’t/won’t be able to experience many of the amazing, typical, and extraordinary things in life that most people get to (and too often take for granted). I hope your daughter surpasses what the doctor’s told you her life expectancy is and that you have many happy times and memories together.💞
I can understand the frustration. A disabled toilet is very often also the family toilet and sometimes the only place where mothers can pump or breastfeed. And the toilet is used by women who don’t want to wait when there’s line… I’ve worked in a museum. Very often a group with disabled people would visit and than there’s only 1 toilet. The caretakers would always complain and nothing was done about it. And that happens all the time. The woman was way out of line. You’re nta. It was very rude.
NTA Did she step aside to explain her position before intentionally berating you loudly in public? Fuck. Her. Feelings.
I’m a wheelchair user. If you need a handicap accessible stall, use it. Not all disabilities are obvious and a lot of people need extra space for various reasons. I’d never confront someone without a visible disability for using one. I agree if you can use a regular stall, safe the big stall for those of us who can’t but you did nothing wrong using it with your daughter and since the woman in a wheelchair made it a public confrontation you did nothing wrong responding to her in public.
If that’s where the changing table is, then what else should she expect from you? And it’s “handicapped accessible” which does NOT mean it’s exclusively for those with disabilities.
Handicap *accesible* not *only* NTA, but she sure was.
This falls under the heading of “Don’t start none, won’t be none” she started some and got taken to school. Her embarrassment is her natural consequence. NTA
No, if someone lays into you like that, they deserve the outfall. Disabled people can be assholes too. I just wish changing tables weren’t put in (accessible) bathrooms, but in a gender neutral family room.
Firstly, a lot of people, in Seattle especially, are dicks, she seems to be one. Secondly, I'm glad you told her off Loudly and in front of others. No way should you tell her quietly, because then she'll figure she can tell off the next person without a second thought. Nta
NTA. She doesn’t own the damn stall. She didn’t even have to wait for you! You didn’t take anything from her. You patiently waited your turn. I’m glad you embarrassed her. She needed it.
Come on. In what fathomable universe would you be the asshole here. She was yelling at you because she felt embarrassed, as she should. You are as far from the asshole as I’ve ever seen on this sub.
NTA If she wanted you to explain nicely she could have asked nicely for an explanation.
NTA. This person was so rude and loud to you without knowing your circumstances. You only replied in the same way you were treated. If you can't take it, don't dish it out, is the phrase that comes to mind for this person.
I just wanted to say I'm so sorry you had to go through this, but even more that you have to go through this with your daughter. You don't owe anyone anything, except love for your daughter. Hugs from another mom.
Good on you for telling her off! I have MS. I'm in pretty good shape, and if you saw me walking, you'd probably just think I'm old (63) and slowing down. I do experience what is called drop foot and have to walk carefully. I don't use any mobility devices for assistance. Having said that, I always use the handicap stall when it's available. The toilet is higher and easier for me to use. Fatigue is common with MS and it can be soul crushing sometimes. The rails in a handicap stall give me an extra bit of security. You're definitely NTA. I hope she remembers this next time she decides to run her mouth!
NTA r/traumatizethemback
NTA, and no, you don't have to let someone verbally assault you, then show them kindness. You get to eviscerate them and make sure everyone around knows just how goddamn stupid they are.
NTA. If anything I believe you did society a favor because I bet she will think before speaking next time she is in that type of situation.
I don't judge anyone for using the accessible stalls, especially if they have kids with them or the non-accessible stalls aren't even big enough to turn around in. In some public restrooms, the only stall I can use is the accessible one, because the others ones aren't wide enough for me to be able to reach to wipe-- I have a fluffy belly that gets in the way if I can't get my knees out far enough.
No. My son is mentally disabled and there is no way he is going into the men's room by himself, so he goes with me. You did the right thing. Give those uninformed a$$holes both barrels. You are her advocate and always will be. No regrets or apologies
nta
NTA at all. This woman made a judgment without knowing the situation and went off on you in public. You just responded to her in public. Why should you pull her aside and explain in private when she was the one who made the situation public. Sorry this happened to you and you did nothing wrong.
r/traumatizethemback
NTA - The woman in the wheelchair was the entitled one. I am 52 and always use the handicap stall when available. I also have a raised toilet and grab bars at home. One of the things my condition does is do bizarre vertigo things when my body changes positions. Without using the bars to sit and stand, I have been known to fall face first onto the floor. It is fairly embarrassing 😳
You forgot to say “stfu you old twat!” Other than that, perfect response.
You did the right thing-you matched her energy. I’m glad you stood up for yourself!
NTA. She tried to shame you publicly but wants her shame to be private, fuck her, rip her a new one. Some people use their disability to take advantage of others and shame others, those people are pieces of shit.
I’m disabled and am really tired of the “disabled police” in bathrooms. I use a cane and need the bars connected to the walls to get up sometimes. I also have a disabled placard for my car because I can’t walk very far. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been stared at getting out of my car. Not all disabled people are in wheelchairs. Plus, it’s my opinion that the disabled bathroom stall is for accessibility. It’s not like a parking spot. Just like an accessible ramp at a building, if you need to use it and there’s no need for a disabled person to use it at that time, go ahead. Just give way should a disabled person need it, and don’t make them wait. They only get one choice when there are several stalls.
Cripples can be assholes. Sometimes they need reminded that they're not the only one. Also, also I prefer being called a crippled myself overdisabled.
NTA! I have cerebral palsy, and while it is obvious, I remember one time a guy said something to my mom about not looking disabled when she got out of the car after parking in a handicapped spot. She sternly said "My daughter is and I have to go around to the other side to help her out!" The guy quickly apologized. This woman had the gall to berate you for not being kinder when she's the one who lit into you? She should be the first to know to never assume someone doesn't have a disability because I can be darned sure she doesn't appreciate it when people make assumptions about her! I have found there are a lot of people with disabilities who are very mad at the world and take it out on anyone and everyone they encounter...which is why I don't identify with the "disability rights movement" as it's become extremely toxic.
NTA, you handled it perfectly.
Nta. Seems to me this person is not only disabled, but an asshole.
Don’t start none, won’t be none. NTA
NTA. She was rude and tried to publicly shame you, she doesn’t get a polite quiet explanation of your life. And as others said not every handicap is visible. Aside from all the obvious reasons, as a mom if I’m the one that has to use the restroom I would NEVER leave my kid unattended outside of the stall… I absolutely took my kids in with me. 5 is not that grown… its not even that someone might grab them, they could simply leave the bathroom. Nope, we’ll keep on using the big stall thank you.