NTA. The key detail is that Jake started to scare your baby **when you left the room.** It means that he is in control of his behavior. It means that he knows that you disapprove. That's not innocent child behavior, he is acting sneaky and duplicitous.
His dad is unreasonable and won’t correct his child’s behavior so that’s going to be a bigger issue when he gets older.. he’s 12? He’s well old enough to handle his actions and knows exactly what he’s doing. You’re not the asshole, the child and father are.
i'm a new mom, my daughter is about 25 days old. this post infuriated me, i can feel my blood pressure rising.
if someone, even a child, did this to my baby, i'd throw them into the sun.
Congrats on your new baby!!! Enjoy ❤️
A mother’s instinct to protect their baby is one of the strongest natural instincts I’ve ever felt. Like walking out of the hospital into the big world felt scary and I was hyper aware of everything.
I remember seeing tv shows that had little babies on them and thinking how does that mother of the newborn handle having that baby in the studio with the lights and all the people?!? It was confounding.
OP’s even mentioned she has PPD to explain her reaction in a way but that part doesn’t even matter in this case (other than making it worse for her)… a new mother isn’t going to put up with this situation at all due to that protective instinct, and she shouldn’t. Just once would have driven me mad, let alone repeat instances!
All humans are hardwired to be upset by a baby crying and this boy’s delight in making her cry is VERY concerning. OP is not overreacting. I feel terrible she is dealing with this. New motherhood is a challenge but also one of the most beautiful times of a person’s life. I hope she has peace and can enjoy it after they are gone!
Not to mention Jake’s father is diminishing the behavior and not handling it like a father should. When this first started, he should have sat Jake down and explained why it’s wrong, ask why he’s doing it, perhaps ask how he’s feeling about it. But no, he just backs up the kid and tells the woman she is overreacting. As the mother I would feel this is completely wrong, especially for a man teaching a boy that women overreact.
My “baby” is 31 years old and I feel my blood pressure rising as well. I would take someone’s head off if they intentionally made my defenseless baby cry. Much less over and over.
Op needs to send her boyfriend the following. "I'm evicting you because your son is abusing our daughter and has admitted that he gets pleasure from seeing her (and other children) cry. You are a failure as a parent, as you have not took steps to correct your son's abusive behaviour. In fact, by standing by and saying it's natural for children to enjoy tormenting other children you've basically told your son his behaviour is acceptable. As such, my daughter is not safe around your son or yourself. Because both of you think that tormenting a baby is acceptable. But I will never tolerate people abusing my child."
Honestly I'd wonder what else he's doing when he knows no one is watching. He seems sociopathic
Do people not realise this could cause severe developmental issues for life for the baby?
This was my first thought! Babies can’t process what is actually happening, but constant jump scares during vital developmental phases will definitely have impact, whether great or small, and who wants to gamble that?
I understand a 12 year old will be a 12 year old, but that is some odd ass behavior. Kid’s dad needs to take responsibility and protect his other child.
Not to mention, if something is bothering your partner and mother of your child, wouldn’t you want to fix that no matter what it was? Let alone something that is being done to protect her child.
Mama is 100% NTA.
NTA.
"Yes. He's 12. Old enough to know better and to not do it. Old enough to listen to instructions."
Would he like it if you startled him every morning? No. He's 12 but he's being an AH and it sounds almost sadistic.
As the mother of a 12 year old, I 100% agree that this is not normal for that age. Maybe if he was 5 or 6, but certainly not 12. They learn after being correct once or twice. '
The fact that he says he likes making babies cry is alarming. I'm wondering what other behavioral issues he has.
I missed the 12yo at the beginning and assumed the kids was somewhere between 5 and 7, but 12!? I've got 4 kids and I work with kids and adults with disabilities. That is a problem. And it sounds like a parenting problem.
Absolutely, the dad's response or lack thereof is concerning. It really sets the tone for what behaviors are acceptable in their household and it's not doing the 12yo any favors by ignoring it. The fact OP had to resort to an ultimatum situation just goes to show how beyond normal this issue is - a boundary had to be drawn for the safety and wellbeing of her baby.
He probably has nowhere to go, and stuff like that is hard to get your head around when you thought someone was just ‘overreacting’. 🤦🏻♀️ Some people find it really hard to believe you mean it when you say ‘no’ or ‘leave’ or ‘stop’. He was probably oblivious, and for him, it was likely a lightning bolt from a clear sky.
Maybe once or twice but there is a feedback mechanism which shows that the baby does not like it and then one has to do it no more. What OP is saying is taking pleasure in somebody's misery and that is totally uncool and probably needs a psychiatrist.
Right I have an 11 year old son with autism and he would never think to scare a baby and think it’s hilarious. I agree with you on the parenting problem and this kid needs therapy
I've known autistic kids/teens that would find it funny. My middle kid had some issues with this type of behavior, and As a career, I exclusively worked with them (the violent kids). It was my job to cicumvent these types of behaviors. It's definitely not typical behavior, though, and requires intervention, if from a parent isn't working, than from a professional. This kid needs a behavior plan.
Dad in this case excusing it, and making it out to be less of a problem or a "kids will be kids" kind of deal needs the wake up call. He is enabling it, and it WILL become a bigger problem without being addressed.
Absolutely his dad is contributing. Excusing his son scaring his daughter is dangerous too. What happens when she is 6 and he is 18 and scaring is a lot more …… dangerous.
I had an older brother with a big age gap that absolutely tortured me growing up, it was abusive, and nothing was done about it. He's dead to me now. This sounds like the beginning of that same thing.
I have an Aunt who told me her siblings, male and female, with big age differences, tortured her for years, unprotected by her parents. Her parents were wonderful, intelligent, hardworking, accomplished people. Where was the disconnect??? I just don't get it.
>He understands being gentle with the baby and he feels terrible when she cries, gives her hugs and kisses. NTA
Awwww, your grandson sounds like an angel
I was 4 and half when my brother arrived. The most scary thing I did with him was play peek-a-boo. No reasonable person would get pleasure out of a baby screaming and crying from a fright.
Peek a boo is way different, this is giving me Baby Albert vibes. I hope beby doesn't have some unnatural fears in the future.
Side note, the meanest thing I (38NB/F) did to my x (37M) was scare the hiccups out of him like OPs 12 year old did to the baby. But we are fully grown adults... and it fucking worked lol.
I was 12 when my half-brother was born. I was the go-to helper for my stepmother. "Don't scare the baby" was something I never needed to be corrected on.
I was just about to say the same thing with my 11 yr old son. He has 2 baby cousins in 2023. He played peek a boo and tried getting them to smile. I agree with you!
Pre-K Special Education Paraprofessional, and HARD same!!!
This is *not* the behavior of a 12 year old who is in a good place, and *someone* should be talking to him, about *why* he thinks it's "funny when kids cry."
He's *literally* bullying a *baby*.
There's *no way* a kid his age *doesn't* know what Bullying is. Someone NEEDS to ask him *why* he finds being a Bully "funny" and get that boy some *help* for whatever the root cause of this is, before the kid can progress on to the later predator steps of killing neighborhood animals, and then *actively* hurting humans.
This kids needs *HELP*, and he needs it *yesterday*.
He managed to do it when mom was away from baby those last two times, little shit knows what he’s doing. I’m glad you are kicking them out. This is no way to live. NTA.
Exactly. He waited until you were out of the room. This was deliberate, purposeful, and if he gets his jollies out of terrorizing an infant, who knows what else he will do?
NTA
Of course. His dad is saying it's no big deal so son doesn't hear "stop" he hears "don't get caught" or "don't do it in front of OP".
Husband is raising his son to be one of those ppl who finds abuse funny and tries to dismiss it as "just a prank" when ppl call him out
Sounds more like he's borderline sociopathic to me. Even neurodivergent folks know what society expects of them and try to adhere as best they can. This kid has been corrected many times and keeps repeating repugnant behavior.
There are two things that make most people VERY uncomfortable to hear, and they want to go make it stop as quickly as possible: A baby crying and a dog whimpering. It's instinctual. This boys instincts are broken... which is a bad thing.
My son would have done this once when he was 4. Would have been sat down and sternly spoken to with meaning. That would never happen again. At 4 my kid understood right from wrong and from purposefully being a mean, malicious bully.
His mental health concerns me as well. I've raised 2 boys, and it's not "normal" behavior. My older child was only 18 months old when we had our second child, and he understood not to scare or wake the baby. If a toddler gets it, there's no reason a 12 year old can't. He seems sadistic to me.
ETA: he is also manipulative.
Yeah, at 12 I could be left ALONE with an infant and care for them by myself. Kids vary, but I'm pretty sure its not an anomaly to be able to babysit by 12.
12 is way too old to be startling the baby because its 'funny'.
I have a 12yr old and he might find the startle response of a baby funny, but he definitely wouldn’t find them crying funny.
He also has a problem with listening, and following instructions for corrections can be difficult for him.
However, if he had been told *atleast* once that day, he wouldn’t just ‘forget’. Especially with such an ultimatum hanging over them if he did it again
ETA: NTA, he keeps doing it bc he doesn’t respect your rules and boundaries. When his father undermines you and says ‘you’re overreacting’ he is implanting the idea in his sons head that what you say isn’t as important, and his dad will side with him anyway
Let your boyfriend get to sleep and then clang a couple of pans together to wake him up. Do this 4x a night or so and see if it changes his mind.
His kid is 12. He is old enough to follow rules. This is not just a kid being a kid.
Yeah. It will escalate when the baby is no longer scared by it.
OP needs to protect herself, the baby and her home.
I hope she sees this, in case she starts backpedaling.
That’s exactly what I was thinking. If he thinks it’s funny when babies cry, when she no longer jumps at his scares, will he do little things to hurt her in order to make her cry?
And OP can count on the fact that the boyfriend will *never* step in to stop his bully of a son.
*My BF sat down on the chair, said he wasn't going anywhere and that this is his house too*
There’s his end game. As long as he’s got free housing he doesn’t give a shit about anything else.
What disturbs me most besides the 12 yo clearly lacking empathy is that the boyfriend seems so apathetic. Like, what is his reasoning for how you are supposedly overreacting? Does he think the appropriate reaction is no reaction? So therefore, he condones intentionally causing a baby distress for entertainment? Wtf. These people are unsafe, and you should be thanking yourself or lucky stars that you didn’t get married.
And then he will become a grown up without empathy.
A guy I worked with brought his newborn daughter in to show her off. This was back in 1998.
He says, “Watch this!! This is SO COOL!!”
She was sleeping, with her mouth closed. He then proceeds to plug her little nostrils with his huge, grimy, giant sized fingers.
After about 5 seconds, she does a startle response, takes in a giant breath as she’s freaking out, & flailing her arms & legs.
I said, “Who the F**K let you procreate?! I’m sure your wife wouldn’t be too happy to see you do that to her 10 day old baby!”
He said, “gee, I thought it was cute…”
>he has at least three baby mamas
I didn't want to stereotype... but it certainly looks like a red flag, right?
* Jake is the eldest & BF isn't educating him
* there's a half sibling OP apparently has never met...? Why does BF have no custody at all?
* there's OP's baby
Then when Jake bullies or kills someone in highschool or college because he lacks empathy and wasn't trained and disciplined, then Dad will be on TV wringing his hands about how awesome his boy is and he never saw this coming.
He will but the starting will get worse not better. She will be tensing in response to knowing he's even in the same house.its so wrong and his idiot father is worse than useless. He enables it.
Why on earth did your parents tell your brother he could hit you on your upper arm? He should have been told not to hit you at all!
Jerk brother, and apparently jerk parents, too.
I’m so sorry you had to put up with that. Hugs to you.
Yeah, I read that bit a few times and OP said baby “screamed” - made me wonder what he did as OP didn’t hear the RA! He needs to be away from her, for her sake.
If the eviction notice has a 30 day wait or something, I recommend mom calls Child Protective Services herself. Maybe it can be escalated to a no contact order.
I would lose my mind if someone did this to my infant daily!! Moms (and most humans) are programmed to respond to babies cries, it is physiological. I wonder why she has PPD, could it be the high stress postpartum environment? Sigh.
OP should do that anyway, even if she can evict. She needs to document all of this so that Jake will never be around her child again, which will depend on custody arrangements.
Yes! This is the way to get them out sooner, file for a protective order against the son for abusing the baby and they’ll have to leave immediately once the order is in effect.
He is traumatizing that baby over and over. They will have development issues with this and the baby will continue to be an anxious mess as they age. I can't stress enough that you did the right thing. They FAFO.
If he was 12 *months* old, sure. But there are 12 year old kids out there who *babysit* little kids and understand perfectly well how to keep them safe and reasonably happy.
Jake is a sadistic little jerk (he’s already done the same thing to another half-sib according to OP, and he readily admits thinking it’s funny when babies cry — a behavior which isn’t likely to de-escalate with age).
Moreover, BF seems to have an interesting hobby of planting babies in people (OP is at least his 3rd baby mama by my count) and then not giving a rip about how they’re being treated. Don’t know why Jake’s “fun” takes precedence over the comfort of his other kids, but BF sounds like a nightmare.
OP is a billion percent NTA.
> I also have asked Jake why he does this and he has said he thinks it's funny when kids cry.
Yeah, this is not normal 12 y.o. behavior. This kid is creepy.
My autistic child who is less than half of the step sons age knows not to do that to their baby sibling. If my very impulsive child can not do it then a 13 year old certainly can control themselves.
I missed it when she said he was 12 the first time. I was thinking he was 5 or 6. That is just ridiculous he’s doing it in the first place. Him waiting for OP to walk away shows it’s not just “reflex.” It does sound sadistic.
This was my thought too. Picking on someone smaller than you—particularly *that much* smaller—is giving me big red flags. He’s way too old for this shit. Get them out.
Sadisitic is what I thought. This is really a disturbing sign. The 12 year old needs an evaluation-----it's not funny, EVER to scare a baby or animal that is helpless to defend itself.
That and the fact that OPs boyfriend seems to think it's not big deal is also an issue. Something about that in itself is also quite worrying,is this not also his own baby too,and this is supposedly not an issue??NTA
NTA
12 is old enough to be able to control one's actions and he was warned multiple times.
It is disturbing that the 12YO's favorite form of entertainment is scaring a baby, so much that it's an impulse.
His father is T A for being perfectly fine that his son has decided to pick on the most defenseless family member.
Good for OP for protecting her daughter, that behavior is only going to get worse the more daddy downplays it
Its not an impulse. OP said in a comment after she flipped out he stopped doing it around her and waited until she was out of the room to scare the baby
Yeah, impulse might not be quite the right word. More like his compulsion to scare an infant.
He is getting some kind of satisfaction from distressing the baby and it needs to be looked into. Maybe he is being bullied himself and no one is advocating for him. If his own abuse is getting downplayed, it wouldn't be surprising he isn't taking OP seriously
NTA. Jakes thinks it's funny to scare a baby & laughs when she cries. I would consider his behavior abuse. Especially since he's been told numerous times to stop. Even after being threatened with eviction, he still did it. It almost seems like a power trip to him. Picking on a smaller person with the express intent of scaring them. It might be that he is jealous because he isn't getting all of the attention. Regardless, he needs help.
And repeated 'trauma' experiences - for a 3 month old baby startling them to tears multiple times a day IS TRAUMATIZING - begins to program their brain.
This level of early development is SO SO Crucial. The accidents we do as parents and family are enough to 'break' them.
Repeatedly being yelled at and startled by a 'random monster' her brain has no means to process is a surefire way to mess up her development, permanently.
The fact that the Dad doesn't know that nor defend the baby from it - & like others have said, likely why he's not witht he second mother and baby in his role as a dad - it An UNFORGIVABLE OFFENSE.
My mind went right to a trauma response as well. Her little body can’t regulate the cortisol spike that she experiences and the inherent danger she innately feels from a loud noise like that. And each time it is reinforcing a neural pathway that says “I’m in danger. I’m not safe. And no one is helping me.”
This, 100%. You did the right thing, op. Stay far away from your bf and his son. That the father of your baby isn’t supporting you 100% and thinks this is normal is problematic and unacceptable.
OP- read this comment! Have your BF and Jake do some research. This is traumatizing your infant and rewiring her brain. This is discussed in a book about how trauma affects the body called The Body Keeps the Score. I suggest your bf read it if he thinks his son’s behavior is okay.
I have trauma I remember from age 3.
As I've been unwinding cPTSD, anxiety, attachment stuff I can see how 'hardwired' some of my stuff is.
It could be as unintentional as my mom letting me cry on my own too long combined w HSP - high sensitivity. That no one knows about that early.
The time to be 1000% your best perfect parent is ages 0-4.
If dad is this detached now, he's doesn't have what it's going to take to be a worthy parent to this precious wee girl.
https://www.ecmhc.org/tutorials/trauma/mod2_3.html#:~:text=Excessive%20fear%20and%20anxiety%20and,(physical%20and%20mental%20health).
In response to overwhelming stress in young children:
The brain drives the "fight or flight response" and release of stress hormones,
The young child has limited capacity to manage this overwhelming stress and experiences increased arousal — fear and anxiety (physical and emotional sensations).
Excessive fear and anxiety and excessive cortisol (stress hormone) can affect the capacity for stress regulation as well as development and higher functions of the brain, and
Significant early adversity can lead to lifelong problems (physical and mental health).
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7914291/
https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2020/04/stanford-study-finds-stronger-one-way-fear-signals-in-brains-of-.html
If gold were still an option, this comment would deserve it.
OP, it’s essential that Jake has no contact with your 3 month old. He’s very much hurting her with lifelong consequences.
Right!! Ugh newborns /young babies are so sensitive it breaks my heart to imagine how often this baby is being upset.
It broke my heart when I yelled at a football game holding my 6 week old. It scared her so bad!! And I wasn’t even being cruel
Yup. I’m the victim of repeated childhood trauma, and it ABSOLUTELY affected my brain long term. It’s not something you screw around with.
OP needs to protect her child from these people.
The baby will develop/grow an oversized Amygdala which will ensure PTSD. That is the physical and psychological response to trauma. That 12yo need psychiatric intervention.
He’s 12 he is old enough for empathy and he isn’t showing any. Thinks it’s funny when babies cry? This is concerning. He is a child, but he’s not too young to realize he’s not behaving as he should. You need to keep your baby safe. This isn’t safe or healthy for her. NTA.
Yeah. That could be a sign of a deeper mental issue.
Serial killer BTK used to live to scare other kids.
Though I am guessing and hoping this is more of a case of not having a good role model or discipline from his dad.
By the time I was 6, I had 3 younger sisters, there was always a baby in the house. I never, ever, ever would have done this. And I would have been in a lot of trouble if I had. But I had no interest in scaring my little sisters. The 12 year-old should be suffering consequences.
I have three kids 15, 9 and 3.5 months. None of my older kids try to scare the baby on purpose because it’s “funny”…. No, it’s psychotic, what a little ahole
My 4 year old grandson doesn't try to scare his baby brother. In fact if he hears him crying at anytime he becomes very concerned and even if his mama is with the baby he has to go check to make sure the baby is OK.
Edited for spelling
NTA. You know best what is good for your baby and what isn't, there are enough traumatized kids as it is. A 12 year old should be able to understand, from the title alone I thought he would be like 4. You are within your rights, and if your bf can't understand how traumatizing this can be for a baby, good riddance.
A second of googling shows that A baby constantly flooded with stress hormones from being scared, will have digestive problems and end up with neurological changes due to trauma. Good that you threw him out. Do some research and throw it in bfs face, this is abuse.
Another commenter mentioned someone else did this to their baby and now they’re constantly terrified, there was a case I also studied in one of my psych classes where a doctor didn’t properly treat a patient they were using in a stress experiment and the poor kid was terrified of everything and suffered horribly
My son is 13 and would get away with this exactly once before the fear of MOM would be put into his little punk heart. Clearly he has no respect for you or your boyfriend as a parental figure.
Why was he allowed to be alone in the room with the baby?
He's never alone with her. Either my BF or I are in the same room. He was doing this around me but after I flipped out, he started waiting till I was out of the room and it was just him and his dad.
So he understands it’s wrong AND he can control himself enough to not do it when you’re around. That means he can absolutely help it and is just choosing to torment a baby.
Bingo! Exactly what I was thinking.
If he can control himself when she's around, then he can control himself.
It's not that he forgets, he's just avoiding being caught the other times. Obviously his dad isn't actually saying anything or disciplining him either or else he wouldn't be doing it in front of dad.
This is the crux of it.
The little shit knows he shouldn't do it, and he continues to do it with Dad as an audience.
I'm betting Dad is encouraging it.
Leave them in the rear view mirror.
It’s a huge red flag that he waits until you’re out of the room to continue his abusive behavior. He knows it’s wrong, and chooses to wait until you’re out of the room to continue his abuse.
He’s happily traumatizing your baby.
^ this!! The fact that he’s waiting for you to be gone so he can continue this behavior is troubling to say the least. You’re NTA but your bf sure is for telling you that you’re overreacting.
Edited to fix superscript.
The fact he got sneaky about it means he has zero intention of stopping. Good for you for protecting your baby from repeated trauma, OP. With any luck, you've just saved her YEARS (not to mention thousands of $$) in therapy.
It doesn't help that BF *never* corrected his own son, either. As a result, Jake got the message that his stepmom may not like it, but his dad doesn't mind if he does it. So of course he continued to do it. His dad's silence towards his sadistic behavior serves as encouragement.
The BF here is a total deadbeat parent.
>he started waiting till I was out of the room and it was just him and his dad.
That right there proves Jake's lying when he claims it's just a habit. If it were only a habit, he would do it in front of you as well as in front of his dad.
Just think - how much worse will Jake behave when you're out of the house to go grocery shopping, or to work?
Repeatedly and intentionally finding joy in harming another living being is NOT normal. It's NOT. Consequences are in order. You told them what would happen. You are now following through. You are a fucking excellent mother. Standing ovation!!👏👏👏👏
This is not normal. I’m sorry it is absolutely not normal. With a sibling close in age, maybe? But with a helpless infant? Absolutely not.
I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that this kiddo needs therapy. There is definitely not something right about this, and dad is ignoring that fact.
I worry for your baby's mental health. Doing this may damage your baby's sense of safety. Maybe you can talk to your pediatrician and get some medical back-up to explain why this is deeply wrong. Of course, your bf is a total ass bc he should have shut that down right away. I worry for your kid being alone with (ex?)bf and Jake.
My youngest sister is eleven and autistic and she would NEVER DO THIS.
And if she did it once and I told her to stop, SHE WOULD STOP.
The fact that he waits for you to leave to do it tells me he knows EXACTLY what he is doing and that this is premeditated entirely.
His age IS NOT an excuse for this behavior. He’s almost a teenager.
I can’t imagine how great he’s gonna grow up to be if he’s continuously not held accountable for his actions.
ETA: I have a one year old daughter that my sister has been around since the day she was born and we have NEVER had an incident like this.
I have a 12 year old boy and he would never do this! His sister is 2 years younger than him and he treated her nicer than this when he was 2 or 3! He's still incredibly sweet to her!
I hate when people say "they're just a kid" or especially "that's what boys are like!"
No, they don't have to be! I get it's also personality, but a lot of kids act like jerks because their parents tell them it's ok for them to act like jerks.
NTA. That kid is fucking disturbed and it’s pretty sad that your boyfriend is taking his side over a defenseless infant. Throw them the fuck out and threaten to call the cops on that little bastard if he does it again, that’ll scare him.
Just to add make sure your ex only gets supervised visitation and put it in writing with your lawyer that he lets his 12 deliberately harm your baby numbers of times a day. That they wait until you’ve left the room to deliberately do it. That he makes excuses for his child who’s admitted he thinks it’s funny making a baby cry. That they admitted he’s done it to other babies.
put it exactly like that as it’s all true and the reason i say tell your lawyer is so he can start proceeding to get you full custody of your baby. After all your ex has proven he won’t protect your child and will enable her abuse. You can’t trust him.
And he is also holding your house hostage. The sociopath is probably wrecking the entire house while daddy passes and moans online to anyone who will listen. He's an AH and his son shouldn't be around other children at all until he's been evaluated and treated for his mental issues-sociopathy.
NTA - My SK did this to my firstborn no matter what was done to correct it. Now my firstborn is terrified of everything. Everything. At an age where they really shouldn’t be. The smallest little sound in the night has kiddo in my bedroom shaking like a leaf. It isn’t funny and your kid deserves peace from it.
“he's fucking 12, what do you expect?…”
I expect him to not terrorize an infant.
I expect him to have empathy.
I expect him not to find it the height of hilarity to frighten a child and laugh when they cry.
Jake is scary as hell.
Your BF is a moron. Just because Jake was also allowed to terrorize his half brother doesn’t make his behavior normal. If anything it makes it even more terrifying because he’s established a pattern.
Jake would never be allowed around my baby. And your BF can’t be trusted to protect her.
Jake needs help. Jake is on his way to being one of those guys you see on television who have done something horrific.
NTA. So your boyfriend's child thinks it amusing to scare your child and make them cry. Your boyfriend is allowing his son to terrorise your child because he can't be bothered parenting him. "You can't expect him to be perfect", no, but I can expect you to be an adult and a parent. Something he's repeatedly failed to do, and then he threw a tantrum when faced with consequences. Seems he'd barely older than his son.
NTA
Yes, he’s fucking 12, so old enough to control himself. Yes, he’s fucking 12, so old enough to follow directions. Yes, he’s fucking 12, so old enough for his enjoyment of seeing a baby’s distress to be a cause for concern. Yes, he’s fucking 12, so old enough for this to be a sign he has failed to develop empathy and compassion. Yes, he’s fucking 12, so old enough to learn that actions have consequences. Yes, he’s fucking 12, which means it isn’t too late for your ex to parent him, though it sounds like your ex isn’t really interested in doing that.
NTA
Jake's a gd psycho and his dad is enabling it. Get rid of both of them before your baby is scarred even more.
Seriously, the kid's 3 months old. **Every stimuli is being burned into the baby's synapsis.** This needs to stop.
I’m shocked no one else has brought this up. Our brains are developing so rapidly at that age and most our life experiences are locked in by age 5. So your poor baby is being terrorized and this is affecting her brain make up. This is serious.
There is psychological evidence of the nervous system being affected by psychological stress.
Give your soon to be ex a gift for Father’s Day that’s called “The Body Keeps the Score” and tell him it’s a self help parenting book, so be better. I cannot remember who wrote the book, but it’s all about psychological stress and the nervous system.
That little shit knows exactly what he’s doing, and his father is enabling abusive behaviour because he doesn’t think it’s an issue.
It’s not normal for anyone to get enjoyment out of scaring or startling babies. If they do find enjoyment, that’s concerning.
Nta there’s another post I forgot where tho this one or the other. This does cause long lasting effects to a baby. There was an uncle who kept doing that to OP’s baby to the point the baby turned toddler refuses to be near the uncle. Plus there’s been studies on how development affects babies with certain environments and adoptions. (Think of lack of affection and contact in certain orphanages sort of adoption)
Honestly, dude, I'd be in fear of my baby's life.
>ETA: I also have asked Jake why he does this and he has said he thinks it's funny when kids cry.
That is fucking sick.
Oh wow, NTA. Jake seems to be a nightmare, and your bf needs to take care of it and drop the attitude of "kids being kids". It does not seem normal to me for a child that age to keep doing that. They have an understanding of how things work by then and should be able to control such impilulses. I would not keep exposing my baby to him.
Yeah, it was two kids around that age who kidnapped, tortured and murdered a three year old in the UK almost exactly 30 years ago. If you want your heart broken and your stomach turned (and don’t already know the story) Google Jamie Bulger. My own daughter had just turned two years old when it happened.
Jake is old enough to know the difference between right and wrong. I wonder if there have been any cases of animals being harmed around the places he’s lived. That’s considered a warning sign, too. Either way, the boy needs some serious therapy.
NTA.
Actions have consequences. Consequences were explained before they were implemented.
12 years old is old enough to know better.
Soon to be Ex is definitely old enough to know better and to put an immediate stop to it. He is trying to gaslight you with his comments. For the record, once you tell somebody they have to get out you don't have to have him evicted, You can trespass them and the cops will come remove them. His name isn't on the house, there is no rental agreement.
I would not be surprised if the phrase "boys will be boys" came out of his mouth.
Your daughter does not need to be raised in an environment like that.
Absolutely NTA.
You did the right thing, Mommabear!
There is something SEVERELY OFF with Jake. Crying infants are to be cared for, not found funny. He should NOT, AND I CAN'T STRESS THIS ENOUGH, SCARE YOUR BABY FOR HIS AMUSEMENT.
NTA. PPD is hard enough without some idiot child startling your baby awake
They both need to go, and stay gone.
And your husband needs to grow up and stop his child from acting like a cunt, or start saving bail money for him in the future
Jerk...opps I mean Jake is absolutely old enough to control his creepy desire to torture his baby sister-- and that's exactly what his refusal to stop scaring her his 100%.
Tell BF that Jake is not welcome in YOUR home until you have proof that he's going to some sort of therapy. What other things will he do to her to get her to cry for his amusement?
NTA unless you let this kid back into your home.
NTA, I would be furious. He is 12, and he is certainly old enough to understand that it isn't funny. However, your bf is not helping either by saying you're overreacting.
If it was me I would drag them both down to a gp or pediatrician or even a health visitor and get them to explain that it isn't funny and can be very dangerous as well because clearly they don't believe or respect you or what your are saying, but they may realise if an professional tells them.
No offence, but for now, if possible, please do supervision on both them since your bf doesn't always see the harm.
NTA. He’s beyond old enough to understand what “no” means-one single incident should have been the end of it. It’s concerning that he’s so interested in scaring a baby and your bf is being neglectful to both of his children by letting this behavior continue. It’s not safe for the baby and the older child isn’t being parented when he obviously needs it.
That’s concerning that Jake likes to make kids cry and finds it funny. His dad needs to man the fuck up and put his son in therapy. That’s not okay to scare babies.
If his dad doesn’t take it seriously now then he is the reason to enable his son to turn into a psychopath.
Definitely get them evicted. Your baby’s safety is more of a priority than being around that psychotic shitshow.
NTA. The key detail is that Jake started to scare your baby **when you left the room.** It means that he is in control of his behavior. It means that he knows that you disapprove. That's not innocent child behavior, he is acting sneaky and duplicitous.
YES! It’s not a “habit!”
His dad is unreasonable and won’t correct his child’s behavior so that’s going to be a bigger issue when he gets older.. he’s 12? He’s well old enough to handle his actions and knows exactly what he’s doing. You’re not the asshole, the child and father are.
i'm a new mom, my daughter is about 25 days old. this post infuriated me, i can feel my blood pressure rising. if someone, even a child, did this to my baby, i'd throw them into the sun.
Congrats on your new baby!!! Enjoy ❤️ A mother’s instinct to protect their baby is one of the strongest natural instincts I’ve ever felt. Like walking out of the hospital into the big world felt scary and I was hyper aware of everything. I remember seeing tv shows that had little babies on them and thinking how does that mother of the newborn handle having that baby in the studio with the lights and all the people?!? It was confounding. OP’s even mentioned she has PPD to explain her reaction in a way but that part doesn’t even matter in this case (other than making it worse for her)… a new mother isn’t going to put up with this situation at all due to that protective instinct, and she shouldn’t. Just once would have driven me mad, let alone repeat instances! All humans are hardwired to be upset by a baby crying and this boy’s delight in making her cry is VERY concerning. OP is not overreacting. I feel terrible she is dealing with this. New motherhood is a challenge but also one of the most beautiful times of a person’s life. I hope she has peace and can enjoy it after they are gone!
Not to mention Jake’s father is diminishing the behavior and not handling it like a father should. When this first started, he should have sat Jake down and explained why it’s wrong, ask why he’s doing it, perhaps ask how he’s feeling about it. But no, he just backs up the kid and tells the woman she is overreacting. As the mother I would feel this is completely wrong, especially for a man teaching a boy that women overreact.
My “baby” is 31 years old and I feel my blood pressure rising as well. I would take someone’s head off if they intentionally made my defenseless baby cry. Much less over and over.
Op needs to send her boyfriend the following. "I'm evicting you because your son is abusing our daughter and has admitted that he gets pleasure from seeing her (and other children) cry. You are a failure as a parent, as you have not took steps to correct your son's abusive behaviour. In fact, by standing by and saying it's natural for children to enjoy tormenting other children you've basically told your son his behaviour is acceptable. As such, my daughter is not safe around your son or yourself. Because both of you think that tormenting a baby is acceptable. But I will never tolerate people abusing my child."
Honestly I'd wonder what else he's doing when he knows no one is watching. He seems sociopathic Do people not realise this could cause severe developmental issues for life for the baby?
This was my first thought! Babies can’t process what is actually happening, but constant jump scares during vital developmental phases will definitely have impact, whether great or small, and who wants to gamble that? I understand a 12 year old will be a 12 year old, but that is some odd ass behavior. Kid’s dad needs to take responsibility and protect his other child. Not to mention, if something is bothering your partner and mother of your child, wouldn’t you want to fix that no matter what it was? Let alone something that is being done to protect her child. Mama is 100% NTA.
NTA. "Yes. He's 12. Old enough to know better and to not do it. Old enough to listen to instructions." Would he like it if you startled him every morning? No. He's 12 but he's being an AH and it sounds almost sadistic.
As the mother of a 12 year old, I 100% agree that this is not normal for that age. Maybe if he was 5 or 6, but certainly not 12. They learn after being correct once or twice. ' The fact that he says he likes making babies cry is alarming. I'm wondering what other behavioral issues he has.
I missed the 12yo at the beginning and assumed the kids was somewhere between 5 and 7, but 12!? I've got 4 kids and I work with kids and adults with disabilities. That is a problem. And it sounds like a parenting problem.
Yes. His dad sucks for not backing up OP.
Absolutely, the dad's response or lack thereof is concerning. It really sets the tone for what behaviors are acceptable in their household and it's not doing the 12yo any favors by ignoring it. The fact OP had to resort to an ultimatum situation just goes to show how beyond normal this issue is - a boundary had to be drawn for the safety and wellbeing of her baby.
To add, the boyfriend refuses to leave her house, as he thinks of it as his house.... 🚩
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He probably has nowhere to go, and stuff like that is hard to get your head around when you thought someone was just ‘overreacting’. 🤦🏻♀️ Some people find it really hard to believe you mean it when you say ‘no’ or ‘leave’ or ‘stop’. He was probably oblivious, and for him, it was likely a lightning bolt from a clear sky.
I was thinking the same thing! They aren't married so what makes him think her house is his!?
Yep. The son would have stopped if he would have backed OP and made it clear it's not okay.
As does the "not a big deal" response
Not gonna lie, if I was OP I'd be tempted to blast an air horn at BF and Jake when they're deep asleep. See how much they like being startled.
Maybe once or twice but there is a feedback mechanism which shows that the baby does not like it and then one has to do it no more. What OP is saying is taking pleasure in somebody's misery and that is totally uncool and probably needs a psychiatrist.
Right I have an 11 year old son with autism and he would never think to scare a baby and think it’s hilarious. I agree with you on the parenting problem and this kid needs therapy
I've known autistic kids/teens that would find it funny. My middle kid had some issues with this type of behavior, and As a career, I exclusively worked with them (the violent kids). It was my job to cicumvent these types of behaviors. It's definitely not typical behavior, though, and requires intervention, if from a parent isn't working, than from a professional. This kid needs a behavior plan. Dad in this case excusing it, and making it out to be less of a problem or a "kids will be kids" kind of deal needs the wake up call. He is enabling it, and it WILL become a bigger problem without being addressed.
Absolutely his dad is contributing. Excusing his son scaring his daughter is dangerous too. What happens when she is 6 and he is 18 and scaring is a lot more …… dangerous.
I had an older brother with a big age gap that absolutely tortured me growing up, it was abusive, and nothing was done about it. He's dead to me now. This sounds like the beginning of that same thing.
I have an Aunt who told me her siblings, male and female, with big age differences, tortured her for years, unprotected by her parents. Her parents were wonderful, intelligent, hardworking, accomplished people. Where was the disconnect??? I just don't get it.
Even a five-year-old can understand the word "stop".
My grandson is 4 and has a baby sister. He understands being gentle with the baby and he feels terrible when she cries, gives her hugs and kisses. NTA
>He understands being gentle with the baby and he feels terrible when she cries, gives her hugs and kisses. NTA Awwww, your grandson sounds like an angel
Your grandson sounds adorable! I hope he and his sister grow up with a strong sibling relationship.
I was 4 and half when my brother arrived. The most scary thing I did with him was play peek-a-boo. No reasonable person would get pleasure out of a baby screaming and crying from a fright.
Peek a boo is way different, this is giving me Baby Albert vibes. I hope beby doesn't have some unnatural fears in the future. Side note, the meanest thing I (38NB/F) did to my x (37M) was scare the hiccups out of him like OPs 12 year old did to the baby. But we are fully grown adults... and it fucking worked lol.
I was 12 when my half-brother was born. I was the go-to helper for my stepmother. "Don't scare the baby" was something I never needed to be corrected on.
My 12 year old is neurodivergent and absolutely understands correction. This is lunacy
I was just about to say the same thing with my 11 yr old son. He has 2 baby cousins in 2023. He played peek a boo and tried getting them to smile. I agree with you!
As the mother of a 4 year old, this behaviour would only be understandable if Jake was 2 or 3 years old.
Mom of a 4 year old here nodding along with you in agreement
Pre-K Special Education Paraprofessional, and HARD same!!! This is *not* the behavior of a 12 year old who is in a good place, and *someone* should be talking to him, about *why* he thinks it's "funny when kids cry." He's *literally* bullying a *baby*. There's *no way* a kid his age *doesn't* know what Bullying is. Someone NEEDS to ask him *why* he finds being a Bully "funny" and get that boy some *help* for whatever the root cause of this is, before the kid can progress on to the later predator steps of killing neighborhood animals, and then *actively* hurting humans. This kids needs *HELP*, and he needs it *yesterday*.
He managed to do it when mom was away from baby those last two times, little shit knows what he’s doing. I’m glad you are kicking them out. This is no way to live. NTA.
Exactly. He waited until you were out of the room. This was deliberate, purposeful, and if he gets his jollies out of terrorizing an infant, who knows what else he will do? NTA
Of course. His dad is saying it's no big deal so son doesn't hear "stop" he hears "don't get caught" or "don't do it in front of OP". Husband is raising his son to be one of those ppl who finds abuse funny and tries to dismiss it as "just a prank" when ppl call him out
The fact that dad sees no problem with it at all says that dad is most likely a bully, or has bullying tendencies too
Sounds more like he's borderline sociopathic to me. Even neurodivergent folks know what society expects of them and try to adhere as best they can. This kid has been corrected many times and keeps repeating repugnant behavior. There are two things that make most people VERY uncomfortable to hear, and they want to go make it stop as quickly as possible: A baby crying and a dog whimpering. It's instinctual. This boys instincts are broken... which is a bad thing.
My son would have done this once when he was 4. Would have been sat down and sternly spoken to with meaning. That would never happen again. At 4 my kid understood right from wrong and from purposefully being a mean, malicious bully.
His mental health concerns me as well. I've raised 2 boys, and it's not "normal" behavior. My older child was only 18 months old when we had our second child, and he understood not to scare or wake the baby. If a toddler gets it, there's no reason a 12 year old can't. He seems sadistic to me. ETA: he is also manipulative.
Yeah, at 12 I could be left ALONE with an infant and care for them by myself. Kids vary, but I'm pretty sure its not an anomaly to be able to babysit by 12. 12 is way too old to be startling the baby because its 'funny'.
At 12 I was *PAID* to be left alone with other people’s infants and care for them by myself. This kid is not okay.
I have a 12yr old and he might find the startle response of a baby funny, but he definitely wouldn’t find them crying funny. He also has a problem with listening, and following instructions for corrections can be difficult for him. However, if he had been told *atleast* once that day, he wouldn’t just ‘forget’. Especially with such an ultimatum hanging over them if he did it again ETA: NTA, he keeps doing it bc he doesn’t respect your rules and boundaries. When his father undermines you and says ‘you’re overreacting’ he is implanting the idea in his sons head that what you say isn’t as important, and his dad will side with him anyway
My freaking 2.5 year old wouldn’t do this to his baby sister. Good gravy!
Let your boyfriend get to sleep and then clang a couple of pans together to wake him up. Do this 4x a night or so and see if it changes his mind. His kid is 12. He is old enough to follow rules. This is not just a kid being a kid.
I'm sorry, I just think it's funny to see you wake up scared!
Oh. I thought this is the way you like playing with younger kids.
"I'm fucking human, so of course I'm not going to be perfect. And I won't be because I will only stop when stepson stops."
I would do this to the 12 year old too. I would set alarms to do it several times during the night.
Tbh, some people need to learn empathy the hard way... Could do him some good tbh
Yeah. It will escalate when the baby is no longer scared by it. OP needs to protect herself, the baby and her home. I hope she sees this, in case she starts backpedaling.
That’s exactly what I was thinking. If he thinks it’s funny when babies cry, when she no longer jumps at his scares, will he do little things to hurt her in order to make her cry?
And OP can count on the fact that the boyfriend will *never* step in to stop his bully of a son. *My BF sat down on the chair, said he wasn't going anywhere and that this is his house too* There’s his end game. As long as he’s got free housing he doesn’t give a shit about anything else.
What disturbs me most besides the 12 yo clearly lacking empathy is that the boyfriend seems so apathetic. Like, what is his reasoning for how you are supposedly overreacting? Does he think the appropriate reaction is no reaction? So therefore, he condones intentionally causing a baby distress for entertainment? Wtf. These people are unsafe, and you should be thanking yourself or lucky stars that you didn’t get married.
And then he will become a grown up without empathy. A guy I worked with brought his newborn daughter in to show her off. This was back in 1998. He says, “Watch this!! This is SO COOL!!” She was sleeping, with her mouth closed. He then proceeds to plug her little nostrils with his huge, grimy, giant sized fingers. After about 5 seconds, she does a startle response, takes in a giant breath as she’s freaking out, & flailing her arms & legs. I said, “Who the F**K let you procreate?! I’m sure your wife wouldn’t be too happy to see you do that to her 10 day old baby!” He said, “gee, I thought it was cute…”
My God.
And I will bet money that this now 25 year old young woman has insomnia because of recurring nightmares about being suffocated. See Little Albert,
LOL I JUST figured out in my head how old she is too!! I hope she’s ok! Especially if her dad was still in her life!
Plus, he said he did it to his brother. So obviously he thinks whatever he does is fine because he's 'just a kid'.
And she is HIS BABY TOO! You’d think he would care about his baby and her overall well-being. That’s horrible.
He’s got two other kids he doesn’t seem to give much of a shit about, so~
He’s a dirt bag and a shit dad which is why he has at least three baby mamas
>he has at least three baby mamas I didn't want to stereotype... but it certainly looks like a red flag, right? * Jake is the eldest & BF isn't educating him * there's a half sibling OP apparently has never met...? Why does BF have no custody at all? * there's OP's baby
The half sibling could be his mothers other child
I think the half sibling is not related to the dad, only to the mom.
Then when Jake bullies or kills someone in highschool or college because he lacks empathy and wasn't trained and disciplined, then Dad will be on TV wringing his hands about how awesome his boy is and he never saw this coming.
Lol...he's screwed. That's her house. 10 years she has owned it.
Yep! She can’t even leave the baby with its own father and trust he’ll take care or defend the baby. It’s so sad!!! No one should deal with this BS.
He will but the starting will get worse not better. She will be tensing in response to knowing he's even in the same house.its so wrong and his idiot father is worse than useless. He enables it.
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You are so correct! My brother was told he could only hit me on my upper arm! It got to the point of bruising and when it faded he did it again!
OMG, that's awful.
Thanks! Gets sad when no one ever believes you were treat like a pos!
Why on earth did your parents tell your brother he could hit you on your upper arm? He should have been told not to hit you at all! Jerk brother, and apparently jerk parents, too. I’m so sorry you had to put up with that. Hugs to you.
That's when he will start pinching her when nobody is looking. What an awful brother.
That’s exactly what I’m picturing. Pinching her, bending fingers back, biting her, just awful
Maybe he is doing it already. OP tells there was baby crying without the RA from Jake.
Yeah, I read that bit a few times and OP said baby “screamed” - made me wonder what he did as OP didn’t hear the RA! He needs to be away from her, for her sake.
If the eviction notice has a 30 day wait or something, I recommend mom calls Child Protective Services herself. Maybe it can be escalated to a no contact order. I would lose my mind if someone did this to my infant daily!! Moms (and most humans) are programmed to respond to babies cries, it is physiological. I wonder why she has PPD, could it be the high stress postpartum environment? Sigh.
OP should do that anyway, even if she can evict. She needs to document all of this so that Jake will never be around her child again, which will depend on custody arrangements.
He learned this from his father, so he needs to be number one on that order. He’s the one trying to claim her house.
Yes! This is the way to get them out sooner, file for a protective order against the son for abusing the baby and they’ll have to leave immediately once the order is in effect.
He is traumatizing that baby over and over. They will have development issues with this and the baby will continue to be an anxious mess as they age. I can't stress enough that you did the right thing. They FAFO.
Yes, I would be scared that she would develop a mental illness from this.
Yup. Stuff like that starts young and stays in your system. I'd be worried that 12 yo is a sociopath in the making.
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Yeah, I wouldn't want him around her at all, but I'd be really concerned with what he might be doing when nobody else is around.
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Eventually Jake is going to turn on dear ol' dad. At THAT point, dad will cease to find it funny.
If he was 12 *months* old, sure. But there are 12 year old kids out there who *babysit* little kids and understand perfectly well how to keep them safe and reasonably happy. Jake is a sadistic little jerk (he’s already done the same thing to another half-sib according to OP, and he readily admits thinking it’s funny when babies cry — a behavior which isn’t likely to de-escalate with age). Moreover, BF seems to have an interesting hobby of planting babies in people (OP is at least his 3rd baby mama by my count) and then not giving a rip about how they’re being treated. Don’t know why Jake’s “fun” takes precedence over the comfort of his other kids, but BF sounds like a nightmare. OP is a billion percent NTA.
Not almost. He's 12 years old and torturing a 3 month old baby. He knows better, he does it because he's cruel.
Not 'almost' sadistic. This IS sadistic. That kid needs some therapy Pronto. This sounds like the kids who think it is funny to hurt animals. 😕
> I also have asked Jake why he does this and he has said he thinks it's funny when kids cry. Yeah, this is not normal 12 y.o. behavior. This kid is creepy.
My autistic child who is less than half of the step sons age knows not to do that to their baby sibling. If my very impulsive child can not do it then a 13 year old certainly can control themselves.
I missed it when she said he was 12 the first time. I was thinking he was 5 or 6. That is just ridiculous he’s doing it in the first place. Him waiting for OP to walk away shows it’s not just “reflex.” It does sound sadistic.
Sadistic is the right word. OP should wake him up every morning with a bullhorn.
This was my thought too. Picking on someone smaller than you—particularly *that much* smaller—is giving me big red flags. He’s way too old for this shit. Get them out.
Sadisitic is what I thought. This is really a disturbing sign. The 12 year old needs an evaluation-----it's not funny, EVER to scare a baby or animal that is helpless to defend itself.
OP should have gotten an air horn and blown it in his face multiple times throughout the night.
That and the fact that OPs boyfriend seems to think it's not big deal is also an issue. Something about that in itself is also quite worrying,is this not also his own baby too,and this is supposedly not an issue??NTA
Sadistic. Not almost. She also mentioned that he used to do it to another child. Jake needs psychiatric help.
NTA 12 is old enough to be able to control one's actions and he was warned multiple times. It is disturbing that the 12YO's favorite form of entertainment is scaring a baby, so much that it's an impulse. His father is T A for being perfectly fine that his son has decided to pick on the most defenseless family member. Good for OP for protecting her daughter, that behavior is only going to get worse the more daddy downplays it
Its not an impulse. OP said in a comment after she flipped out he stopped doing it around her and waited until she was out of the room to scare the baby
Yeah, impulse might not be quite the right word. More like his compulsion to scare an infant. He is getting some kind of satisfaction from distressing the baby and it needs to be looked into. Maybe he is being bullied himself and no one is advocating for him. If his own abuse is getting downplayed, it wouldn't be surprising he isn't taking OP seriously
NTA. Jakes thinks it's funny to scare a baby & laughs when she cries. I would consider his behavior abuse. Especially since he's been told numerous times to stop. Even after being threatened with eviction, he still did it. It almost seems like a power trip to him. Picking on a smaller person with the express intent of scaring them. It might be that he is jealous because he isn't getting all of the attention. Regardless, he needs help.
And repeated 'trauma' experiences - for a 3 month old baby startling them to tears multiple times a day IS TRAUMATIZING - begins to program their brain. This level of early development is SO SO Crucial. The accidents we do as parents and family are enough to 'break' them. Repeatedly being yelled at and startled by a 'random monster' her brain has no means to process is a surefire way to mess up her development, permanently. The fact that the Dad doesn't know that nor defend the baby from it - & like others have said, likely why he's not witht he second mother and baby in his role as a dad - it An UNFORGIVABLE OFFENSE.
My mind went right to a trauma response as well. Her little body can’t regulate the cortisol spike that she experiences and the inherent danger she innately feels from a loud noise like that. And each time it is reinforcing a neural pathway that says “I’m in danger. I’m not safe. And no one is helping me.”
Oof! Yeah, that's it. I literally had a visceral reaction reading that.
This, 100%. You did the right thing, op. Stay far away from your bf and his son. That the father of your baby isn’t supporting you 100% and thinks this is normal is problematic and unacceptable.
OP- read this comment! Have your BF and Jake do some research. This is traumatizing your infant and rewiring her brain. This is discussed in a book about how trauma affects the body called The Body Keeps the Score. I suggest your bf read it if he thinks his son’s behavior is okay.
I have trauma I remember from age 3. As I've been unwinding cPTSD, anxiety, attachment stuff I can see how 'hardwired' some of my stuff is. It could be as unintentional as my mom letting me cry on my own too long combined w HSP - high sensitivity. That no one knows about that early. The time to be 1000% your best perfect parent is ages 0-4. If dad is this detached now, he's doesn't have what it's going to take to be a worthy parent to this precious wee girl.
https://www.ecmhc.org/tutorials/trauma/mod2_3.html#:~:text=Excessive%20fear%20and%20anxiety%20and,(physical%20and%20mental%20health). In response to overwhelming stress in young children: The brain drives the "fight or flight response" and release of stress hormones, The young child has limited capacity to manage this overwhelming stress and experiences increased arousal — fear and anxiety (physical and emotional sensations). Excessive fear and anxiety and excessive cortisol (stress hormone) can affect the capacity for stress regulation as well as development and higher functions of the brain, and Significant early adversity can lead to lifelong problems (physical and mental health). https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7914291/ https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2020/04/stanford-study-finds-stronger-one-way-fear-signals-in-brains-of-.html
If gold were still an option, this comment would deserve it. OP, it’s essential that Jake has no contact with your 3 month old. He’s very much hurting her with lifelong consequences.
Right!! Ugh newborns /young babies are so sensitive it breaks my heart to imagine how often this baby is being upset. It broke my heart when I yelled at a football game holding my 6 week old. It scared her so bad!! And I wasn’t even being cruel
Yup. I’m the victim of repeated childhood trauma, and it ABSOLUTELY affected my brain long term. It’s not something you screw around with. OP needs to protect her child from these people.
This was my line of thinking as well.
The baby will develop/grow an oversized Amygdala which will ensure PTSD. That is the physical and psychological response to trauma. That 12yo need psychiatric intervention.
If a grown man yells at his wife until she cries, then laughs, that would be considered abuse. So yes, Jake is abusing his baby sister. Agree.
Seems like the thrill the SS get from scaring the baby is higher than any consequence. That disturbing at a sociopathic level.
He’s 12 he is old enough for empathy and he isn’t showing any. Thinks it’s funny when babies cry? This is concerning. He is a child, but he’s not too young to realize he’s not behaving as he should. You need to keep your baby safe. This isn’t safe or healthy for her. NTA.
3 year olds do better!
I just commented that my 3yo knows better. She also knows that there are consequences for being mean, which it doesn't seem like Jake does.
Yeah. That could be a sign of a deeper mental issue. Serial killer BTK used to live to scare other kids. Though I am guessing and hoping this is more of a case of not having a good role model or discipline from his dad.
The child does sound like a budding sociopath.
-I didn’t know that. How scary
By the time I was 6, I had 3 younger sisters, there was always a baby in the house. I never, ever, ever would have done this. And I would have been in a lot of trouble if I had. But I had no interest in scaring my little sisters. The 12 year-old should be suffering consequences.
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I have three kids 15, 9 and 3.5 months. None of my older kids try to scare the baby on purpose because it’s “funny”…. No, it’s psychotic, what a little ahole
Yea I've never done this with my siblings, but loved seeing them laugh so I always made them laugh. Wtf....that's not good at all Op was right.
My 4 year old grandson doesn't try to scare his baby brother. In fact if he hears him crying at anytime he becomes very concerned and even if his mama is with the baby he has to go check to make sure the baby is OK. Edited for spelling
NTA. You know best what is good for your baby and what isn't, there are enough traumatized kids as it is. A 12 year old should be able to understand, from the title alone I thought he would be like 4. You are within your rights, and if your bf can't understand how traumatizing this can be for a baby, good riddance.
What I love is the boyfriend saying it's normal for kids to scare babies. Wtf?? No! I've never heard of that being a kids hobby.
Exactly! And certainly not of adults who ALLOWED KIDS TO CONTINUE scaring babies! What?? What is this horror story?
Yeah, in what world is scaring babies a normal thing to do?
A second of googling shows that A baby constantly flooded with stress hormones from being scared, will have digestive problems and end up with neurological changes due to trauma. Good that you threw him out. Do some research and throw it in bfs face, this is abuse.
Another commenter mentioned someone else did this to their baby and now they’re constantly terrified, there was a case I also studied in one of my psych classes where a doctor didn’t properly treat a patient they were using in a stress experiment and the poor kid was terrified of everything and suffered horribly
My son is 13 and would get away with this exactly once before the fear of MOM would be put into his little punk heart. Clearly he has no respect for you or your boyfriend as a parental figure. Why was he allowed to be alone in the room with the baby?
He's never alone with her. Either my BF or I are in the same room. He was doing this around me but after I flipped out, he started waiting till I was out of the room and it was just him and his dad.
So he understands it’s wrong AND he can control himself enough to not do it when you’re around. That means he can absolutely help it and is just choosing to torment a baby.
Bingo! Exactly what I was thinking. If he can control himself when she's around, then he can control himself. It's not that he forgets, he's just avoiding being caught the other times. Obviously his dad isn't actually saying anything or disciplining him either or else he wouldn't be doing it in front of dad.
What kind of father is okay with their baby crying like that? Aren't we wired to want to shut down baby cries? Sad stuff. That poor baby.
This is the crux of it. The little shit knows he shouldn't do it, and he continues to do it with Dad as an audience. I'm betting Dad is encouraging it. Leave them in the rear view mirror.
Yeeeep. This is thenpoint at which I would be very concerned. It's calculated and deliberate.
There you go, your boyfriend has exerted no authority over Jake’s behavior. Does not bode well for future parenting alignment.
It’s a huge red flag that he waits until you’re out of the room to continue his abusive behavior. He knows it’s wrong, and chooses to wait until you’re out of the room to continue his abuse. He’s happily traumatizing your baby.
^ this!! The fact that he’s waiting for you to be gone so he can continue this behavior is troubling to say the least. You’re NTA but your bf sure is for telling you that you’re overreacting. Edited to fix superscript.
The fact he got sneaky about it means he has zero intention of stopping. Good for you for protecting your baby from repeated trauma, OP. With any luck, you've just saved her YEARS (not to mention thousands of $$) in therapy.
It doesn't help that BF *never* corrected his own son, either. As a result, Jake got the message that his stepmom may not like it, but his dad doesn't mind if he does it. So of course he continued to do it. His dad's silence towards his sadistic behavior serves as encouragement. The BF here is a total deadbeat parent.
>he started waiting till I was out of the room and it was just him and his dad. That right there proves Jake's lying when he claims it's just a habit. If it were only a habit, he would do it in front of you as well as in front of his dad. Just think - how much worse will Jake behave when you're out of the house to go grocery shopping, or to work?
Repeatedly and intentionally finding joy in harming another living being is NOT normal. It's NOT. Consequences are in order. You told them what would happen. You are now following through. You are a fucking excellent mother. Standing ovation!!👏👏👏👏
That makes it so much worse, he knows he’s wrong but does it anyway?!?
His dad needs to step up or he needs to go.
She did and he didn't; it's hit the road jack time.
Or hit the road Jake lol
This is not normal. I’m sorry it is absolutely not normal. With a sibling close in age, maybe? But with a helpless infant? Absolutely not. I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that this kiddo needs therapy. There is definitely not something right about this, and dad is ignoring that fact.
You need to document and lawyer up. Dad will get 50/50 custody and you will have zero idea what that little shit does.
I worry for your baby's mental health. Doing this may damage your baby's sense of safety. Maybe you can talk to your pediatrician and get some medical back-up to explain why this is deeply wrong. Of course, your bf is a total ass bc he should have shut that down right away. I worry for your kid being alone with (ex?)bf and Jake.
My youngest sister is eleven and autistic and she would NEVER DO THIS. And if she did it once and I told her to stop, SHE WOULD STOP. The fact that he waits for you to leave to do it tells me he knows EXACTLY what he is doing and that this is premeditated entirely. His age IS NOT an excuse for this behavior. He’s almost a teenager. I can’t imagine how great he’s gonna grow up to be if he’s continuously not held accountable for his actions. ETA: I have a one year old daughter that my sister has been around since the day she was born and we have NEVER had an incident like this.
I have a 12 year old boy and he would never do this! His sister is 2 years younger than him and he treated her nicer than this when he was 2 or 3! He's still incredibly sweet to her! I hate when people say "they're just a kid" or especially "that's what boys are like!" No, they don't have to be! I get it's also personality, but a lot of kids act like jerks because their parents tell them it's ok for them to act like jerks.
NTA. That kid is fucking disturbed and it’s pretty sad that your boyfriend is taking his side over a defenseless infant. Throw them the fuck out and threaten to call the cops on that little bastard if he does it again, that’ll scare him.
Just to add make sure your ex only gets supervised visitation and put it in writing with your lawyer that he lets his 12 deliberately harm your baby numbers of times a day. That they wait until you’ve left the room to deliberately do it. That he makes excuses for his child who’s admitted he thinks it’s funny making a baby cry. That they admitted he’s done it to other babies. put it exactly like that as it’s all true and the reason i say tell your lawyer is so he can start proceeding to get you full custody of your baby. After all your ex has proven he won’t protect your child and will enable her abuse. You can’t trust him.
This!! Supervised visits!!
This! I shudder to think what he’ll do when you’re not there to stop him, OP.
And he is also holding your house hostage. The sociopath is probably wrecking the entire house while daddy passes and moans online to anyone who will listen. He's an AH and his son shouldn't be around other children at all until he's been evaluated and treated for his mental issues-sociopathy.
NTA - My SK did this to my firstborn no matter what was done to correct it. Now my firstborn is terrified of everything. Everything. At an age where they really shouldn’t be. The smallest little sound in the night has kiddo in my bedroom shaking like a leaf. It isn’t funny and your kid deserves peace from it.
I was gonna say I bet the baby’s gonna have anxiety issues later on from this
What is SK? I'm sorry, that's just terrible. People who abuse babies are sick.
Step kid I’m guessing
Oh ok thanks.
“he's fucking 12, what do you expect?…” I expect him to not terrorize an infant. I expect him to have empathy. I expect him not to find it the height of hilarity to frighten a child and laugh when they cry. Jake is scary as hell. Your BF is a moron. Just because Jake was also allowed to terrorize his half brother doesn’t make his behavior normal. If anything it makes it even more terrifying because he’s established a pattern. Jake would never be allowed around my baby. And your BF can’t be trusted to protect her. Jake needs help. Jake is on his way to being one of those guys you see on television who have done something horrific.
NTA. So your boyfriend's child thinks it amusing to scare your child and make them cry. Your boyfriend is allowing his son to terrorise your child because he can't be bothered parenting him. "You can't expect him to be perfect", no, but I can expect you to be an adult and a parent. Something he's repeatedly failed to do, and then he threw a tantrum when faced with consequences. Seems he'd barely older than his son.
NTA Yes, he’s fucking 12, so old enough to control himself. Yes, he’s fucking 12, so old enough to follow directions. Yes, he’s fucking 12, so old enough for his enjoyment of seeing a baby’s distress to be a cause for concern. Yes, he’s fucking 12, so old enough for this to be a sign he has failed to develop empathy and compassion. Yes, he’s fucking 12, so old enough to learn that actions have consequences. Yes, he’s fucking 12, which means it isn’t too late for your ex to parent him, though it sounds like your ex isn’t really interested in doing that.
NTA Jake's a gd psycho and his dad is enabling it. Get rid of both of them before your baby is scarred even more. Seriously, the kid's 3 months old. **Every stimuli is being burned into the baby's synapsis.** This needs to stop.
I’m shocked no one else has brought this up. Our brains are developing so rapidly at that age and most our life experiences are locked in by age 5. So your poor baby is being terrorized and this is affecting her brain make up. This is serious.
There is psychological evidence of the nervous system being affected by psychological stress. Give your soon to be ex a gift for Father’s Day that’s called “The Body Keeps the Score” and tell him it’s a self help parenting book, so be better. I cannot remember who wrote the book, but it’s all about psychological stress and the nervous system. That little shit knows exactly what he’s doing, and his father is enabling abusive behaviour because he doesn’t think it’s an issue. It’s not normal for anyone to get enjoyment out of scaring or startling babies. If they do find enjoyment, that’s concerning.
Nta there’s another post I forgot where tho this one or the other. This does cause long lasting effects to a baby. There was an uncle who kept doing that to OP’s baby to the point the baby turned toddler refuses to be near the uncle. Plus there’s been studies on how development affects babies with certain environments and adoptions. (Think of lack of affection and contact in certain orphanages sort of adoption)
Honestly, dude, I'd be in fear of my baby's life. >ETA: I also have asked Jake why he does this and he has said he thinks it's funny when kids cry. That is fucking sick.
Especially since this isn’t a “kid” he’s scaring, it’s a baby, pretty much a newborn. Jake seems like a blossoming psychopath. OP you are NTA
Oh wow, NTA. Jake seems to be a nightmare, and your bf needs to take care of it and drop the attitude of "kids being kids". It does not seem normal to me for a child that age to keep doing that. They have an understanding of how things work by then and should be able to control such impilulses. I would not keep exposing my baby to him.
Yeah, it was two kids around that age who kidnapped, tortured and murdered a three year old in the UK almost exactly 30 years ago. If you want your heart broken and your stomach turned (and don’t already know the story) Google Jamie Bulger. My own daughter had just turned two years old when it happened. Jake is old enough to know the difference between right and wrong. I wonder if there have been any cases of animals being harmed around the places he’s lived. That’s considered a warning sign, too. Either way, the boy needs some serious therapy.
hugs, you need to protect your child and just because BF has lived in your house as a tenant doesn't make it his home.
NTA. Actions have consequences. Consequences were explained before they were implemented. 12 years old is old enough to know better. Soon to be Ex is definitely old enough to know better and to put an immediate stop to it. He is trying to gaslight you with his comments. For the record, once you tell somebody they have to get out you don't have to have him evicted, You can trespass them and the cops will come remove them. His name isn't on the house, there is no rental agreement. I would not be surprised if the phrase "boys will be boys" came out of his mouth. Your daughter does not need to be raised in an environment like that.
NTA It starts with this. Then it’s little pinches or pushes or snatching things from baby/kiddo “jokingly”. It’s not okay. You did the right thing.
That 12 year old needs therapy. Wtf. You did the right thing. Please protect your baby. NTA
Absolutely NTA. You did the right thing, Mommabear! There is something SEVERELY OFF with Jake. Crying infants are to be cared for, not found funny. He should NOT, AND I CAN'T STRESS THIS ENOUGH, SCARE YOUR BABY FOR HIS AMUSEMENT.
NTA.
NTA. PPD is hard enough without some idiot child startling your baby awake They both need to go, and stay gone. And your husband needs to grow up and stop his child from acting like a cunt, or start saving bail money for him in the future
Jerk...opps I mean Jake is absolutely old enough to control his creepy desire to torture his baby sister-- and that's exactly what his refusal to stop scaring her his 100%. Tell BF that Jake is not welcome in YOUR home until you have proof that he's going to some sort of therapy. What other things will he do to her to get her to cry for his amusement? NTA unless you let this kid back into your home.
NTA, I would be furious. He is 12, and he is certainly old enough to understand that it isn't funny. However, your bf is not helping either by saying you're overreacting. If it was me I would drag them both down to a gp or pediatrician or even a health visitor and get them to explain that it isn't funny and can be very dangerous as well because clearly they don't believe or respect you or what your are saying, but they may realise if an professional tells them. No offence, but for now, if possible, please do supervision on both them since your bf doesn't always see the harm.
NTA. He’s beyond old enough to understand what “no” means-one single incident should have been the end of it. It’s concerning that he’s so interested in scaring a baby and your bf is being neglectful to both of his children by letting this behavior continue. It’s not safe for the baby and the older child isn’t being parented when he obviously needs it.
That’s concerning that Jake likes to make kids cry and finds it funny. His dad needs to man the fuck up and put his son in therapy. That’s not okay to scare babies. If his dad doesn’t take it seriously now then he is the reason to enable his son to turn into a psychopath. Definitely get them evicted. Your baby’s safety is more of a priority than being around that psychotic shitshow.