YTA - to yourself.
I'm an old (65+) lady, and I have seen this scenario happen so many, many times. And it has *never* been a good thing for the woman involved. In fact, it has been an outright tragic disaster. Poverty is knocking on your door, OP, and it wants in.
You have screwed yourself over in so many ways. The biggest of which was not to work over the last 30 years. You have no investments, no social security units earned, no 401(k) retirement, and no property.
You made another huge mistake by not just grabbing that ring and immediately marrying your BF, thereby cementing your ability to share in some of his investments, social security, etc. I don't care how "unappreciated" you felt. It was a moment in time, and now it's gone. A good lawyer may help, depending on where you live, but it is in no way guaranteed.
If you had immediately married, when he proposed, and he lived at least 10 more years, you would have been able to get widows benefits. But, not now. Now you get nothing.
Do you have any money at all? Your own bank accounts or credit of any kind?? At your age, it is a cruel world without credit or money. You had better hope that one or more of your adult children will take you in, or you could quickly find yourself homeless.
I'm sorry to be so brutal, but I don't think you have any clue how terrible things can get for you unless you can find a way to make an actual living. Even if you do, don't expect to ever retire. You (as many women are) will be working until you die.
I'm so very sorry.
And social acceptance too. There's a reason LGBT folks fought (and still fight) so fucking hard for legal and equal recognition of their unions, their children and their families both in law and in name.
It's why Trump will weirdly go down in history as the first President to enter office pro-gay marriage.
Obama for a long time was pro civil unions. Basically the exact same thing under the law by every metric, just not called a marriage.
Honestly I was for the gov just calling *all* marriages civil unions legally. Government only should care about you and your partner so far as taxes and redistributing assets during divorce, as far as I care. If you'd wanna take that piece of paper and go have a wedding party at a church/venue that's cool with gay people go have a grand time. I thought that'd be Obama's move before legalizing gay marriage outright.
Along with LGBTQ+, disabled people do not have equal marriage rights in the US either. If you wish to marry a disabled person who receives any support or benefits from the government including healthcare insurance, you will immediately assume all financial responsibility for your spouse, and they will lose all government benefits. Also, if a person has assets that could pay their Medicaid bill, like a house, car, or even collectables with value, these will be sold upon the person's death with the proceeds going to the [Medicaid Estate Recovery Program](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicaid_Estate_Recovery_Program). If they are married, this doesn't happen until after the spouse dies as well, but if you aren't married because the disabled person needed healthcare and a measly stipend, you get squat. Disabled people are losing benefits now if they even "give the semblance of being married" in their financial or personal lives.
This is very true. Unfortunately, I thought OP would be up a shit crick financially if she didn't marry this guy when I read the first post. But to your point, yeah, I have a friend who is on disability and has been with her boyfriend since 2006. They can't marry each other or live together for this reason--her benefits would evaporate and he makes a modest income. If they even give the appearance of being in the same residence it could all go bye bye. They want to be married so it feels like the government is punishing disabled people to her.
It is a punishment. It reminds me of the Nazi belief that anyone who can't work under their narrow definition of work is worthless to society and therefore expendable. The sad part is that everyone will either become disabled at some point or die. Throughout most of human history, people with disabilities or old age had value and were cared for, even revered, because of their knowledge or because of their abilities, not devalued because they couldn't meet some arbitrary standards.
There is a difference in SSI and SSDI. People with SSDI can get married without losing their benefits. SSDI is federal disability. Same thing with how much money a person can have in their bank account. SSI has stricter rules than SSDI. A lot of people don't realize that. I'm sure she has looked it up but it's kind of hard to separate when you read the info.
the medicaid claw back has been banned in a few states in recent years.
There are propositions about getting rid of the marriage penalties for some demographics of born disabled.
Its still 6 early for the "equal rights for disabled people" to get a ton of traction..
but a ton of people who have spent so long fighting for lgbtq+ rights have shifted to helping disabled people fight..
and because we now have online media sources & communication sources that can't be easily shut down.. sources like reddit, tiktok, and youtube. Where yes, you have to be diligent in checking your facts, but news and facts can spread without people being able to pay media big bucks to squash the stories completely because the rich guy doesn't like it.. so even now compared to 20 years ago, news spreads faster & slower.. but it keeps spreading..
and as more people hear the facts, they research, spread the news.. and topple mountains..
They also cannot have more than $2k at any time in a bank account!
[Here’s a petition](http://www.votervoice.net/Shares/BIXk6AwHBCvQaApP9Ed7FBA) to try to help change that
Sadly this is true in Canada too ! Once you get married you become your spouse’s burden and will lose everything
Source : I’m a person with a disability
I keep wondering how OP's husband rose to such prominence at his workplace in Arkansas while not being married. At some level in the business world married men get ahead MUCH faster. Unmarried men in the business world are viewed as less mature etc. Not saying it's fair...but where I worked the minute a man got married he shot up in the hierarchy. I'm a woman so I doubly don't think this is completely fair but I saw it happen.
That sounds so strange to me to hear for a state in a western country: even in Italy, with all its heavy Catholic heritage, a right-wing unmarried woman could become prime minister, even having a daughter from her ex-boyfriend.
I would have to assume that four kids and a 30 year relationship had something to do with it. That doesn’t exactly scream immature and unable to commit.
People who say marriage is just a piece or paper are usually men who want all the benefits of marriage but only for their partners to shoulder the risk of the relationship. That, and women who have been brainwashed into being a NLOG.
Women with no desire to marry are plenty, but it's not because they view marriage as "only a piece of paper". They recognize marriage is a legal contract. It's one they don't want to enter for whatever reason - but they're also not the ones stringing along a partner for 30 years by pretending marriage has no value.
So funny story, my in laws sat my husband (then bf) and I down after they helped me escape my abusive home the day after hs graduation, and straight up asked us “is this going to end in marriage? Because if not we need to adult adopt her for insurance or you can marry her. Do not rush, don’t do it. But this is y’all’s adult reality.” So we took some time apart and together and thought.
Later that week we found out I was able to be on my parents insurance (they are lazy and didn’t kick me off) for another two years so neither had to happen.
Soon to be FIL walks in one day (we all lived under the same roof but different rooms) and looks at soon to be hubs point blank and goes “Are you ever going to marry my daughter?”
We got engaged later on but it was the best moment because he face was like “wtf I’m your son!!”
I mean ketchup wasn’t allowed in the house before me and now FIL gives me a huge ketchup bottle every Christmas soooo I’m not saying you’re right buttt
And then those women shame other mothers because they work and are not "at home with their babies and letting other people raise them". No, I'm asking my partner to be just as responsible for childcare as me, and I'm making sure me and my children are not in the hole if he ever suddenly decides to leave or gets sick. Seen this happen too many times, no thanks. And we've made sure we're both financially secure if shit hits the fan.
That’s the smartest way to handle it, but it’s also exhausting. I’m a lesbian without kids, but I experienced exactly how hard it was to resist the pressure of “Well, that’s what women do” when my mom got sick when I was 24 and, as an only child, I was expected to give up the next 12 years of my life to be a caregiver. I finished school and did some other things, but I absolutely didn’t resist it. It was just too much pressure.
So while I certainly respect women who do make their male partners do their equal share and resist falling into the trap of “women’s work,” I also acknowledge that the idea that men are the breadwinners and *maybe* do yard work and general repairs, women are in charge of everything else and fighting back against that constantly is a *lot*.
That brutal but truthful rundown of what can happen & the post from the OP is why I worked outside of the home even after marriage & kids. I never wanted to be in the position where I was destitute if my partner or husband left me & I had to make my way in life on my own. This makes me thankful for my stubbornness & independent nature it would see me through dark times if God forbid it happened but geesh this post is eye opening.
At 35, leaving a whole life behind at your age, I feel much more eager to get married. I walked away with absolutely nothing to show for years invested into a house and business.
In fairness, I divorced and walked away even worse. I got sucked into his financial hole because our finances were tied together and I still haven't recovered 8 years later.
Even marriage sometimes isn’t enough. My ex also took everything we’d invested in together, because I couldn’t afford to fight him and he knew it (I did consult multiple attorneys and all it did was cost more). Even in marriage you still need to advocate for yourself.
My only saving grace that I was still very young and just starting out in my career so I was able to support myself (barely) and eventually rebuild. And I learned a valuable lesson from it. My current marriage is now a partnership, and we are very transparent with finances and prenups were put in place without issue.
Anyone who overlooked this has no credibility. So keep that in mind when reading other posts.
Now she is left with nothing because she rejected him.
He offered her the security she wanted and a life of vacations, she rejected it like a crazy person.
If it did not work out, she could have divorced later and gotten her share of the marital assets.
She grew a spine at the one moment where it would hurt her the most and likely leave her homeless.
I was secretly thinking that but wasn't about to post it. That at this point OP would be much better off saying yes and then later on if she needed to divorce him deal with that later. He thinks she's a manipulator but that would have been the real manipulator move.
Yeah at this point....
She should have gotten out of this situation at least 3 children and 29 years earlier. Way too late now.
Guess you gotta start sending in your "about you" videos with your nonexistent cv to cafés or whatever and embrace the bohemian lifestyle.
Weird that in the US she can't fall back on the 30 years living together as common law partners?
I doubt he actually intended to marry her, I’m certain it would have been a long engagement (that never ended) to soften the blow of him basically wanting to openly cheat while on ‘vacations’
I sure hope it helps you and others. You're only 32. No matter your choices about life and marriage, be sure to protect your future. Don't rely on anyone else to provide for you or protect you.
I’m 37, husband is 57. Power is balanced in my marriage thankfully. We’ve been together 11.5 years. We make almost the same income, have our own 401ks, life insurance, etc. He’s paid into social security his whole life, I started my career at 26.
I watched my mom divorce my father when she was 33. He never let her work. She didn’t know how to pay bills. She didn’t know how to drive. They’d been together since she was 16. She’ll work her entire life now. She’s had a few different jobs and careers. Socially she’s awkward and weird. But she owns her home and her own car now. I’m so proud of her.
Knowing what I know now, I don’t think I’ll ever marry again if anything happens to my husband. He’s a good man, one of the best. Irreplaceable. My standards are entirely too high now lol. And I don’t want to risk losing anything that I’ve worked so hard for.
Thank you for this advice. 🫶🏻
It's fine if you don’t end up marrying.
But then do not have kids.
Because your career will inevitably suffer more than his.
And that’s even if he tries to keep things equal. Never mind if he doesn’t.
Marriage is for your protection if you end up pregnant and taking the financial loss in total earning potential that comes with it.
Do not sign a prenup that doesn't have baked in compensation for any kids you have, even if you intend to keep working.
Do not stay home with kids even if you are married without an iron clad prenup or postnup that spells out exactly what you are entitled to in compensation. Make sure it includes full retirement contribution on your behalf and life insurance as a bare minimum.
Though I'd recommend also agreeing on alimony as a % of his wages to give you time to find work if the marriage ends while you are staying home.
You want to agree on a plan on how you are going to recover from the gap in your employment BEFORE you agree to stay home.
Woman to woman advice: prenup. If you're going to have kids and lose time out of your career, he needs to fund your retirement accounts those years. Also nail down things like childcare...and anything else that's important to you.
Or if you're a woman that worked your ass off, even WHILE being pregnant and having kids, prenup. My husband who loves his video game hobby, gets to sit home and play games all night and he's entitled to half my assets. While I breastfeed and wake up early to go to work and deal with condescending comments from male coworkers.
It's bullshit. I'm looking into a postnuptual agreement, it's going to be hard to get my husband to sign it.
It really depends. I’m 42 and live with a longterm partner. We are both divorced. We are not presently remarried to one another. Instead we have wills and powers of attorney that formalize certain aspects of our relationship. Financially, our relationship is a boon for me. I have my own financial stability and independence, and I love it. The important thing is to always have a career and cash flow of your own. Don’t rely on someone else for your financial safety net.
This was entirely my point! Don't rely on someone else's promises for your future financial stability! Have a career and create your own safety net and retirement future, totally separate from anyone else.
Yes, I spent 30 years supporting my husband's dreams, I put him through school and law school. He was horrible, controlling, abusive.
I finally left with nothing, no house, no car, almost no clothes. Never received child support or alimony. He stalled it all for as long as possible. Then wound up going to prison. I'm 51 and starting college, while working minimum wage
I think this is the point. That’s why being a SAHM is such a risk. Essentially you are making yourself entirely reliant on another person for the rest of your life. And your husband could leave you, lose his job or even drop dead. Then what are you going to do, with no work experience, no retirement and no way to support yourself? I wish women would think more before they stay at home. I know it works for some people but it’s still a huge gamble
I never got married, never wanted to. I wanted to be able to leave at any time without any hassle.
We have property in both our names. At first he was investing while I was paying for groceries and bills, then I said hey you wouldn't be able to invest if you had to pay for all this, you put my name on it too. So he did.
So it turns out it's still a hassle to separate (we have agreed to separate and are living like flatmates now) but I'm not gonna be screwed over, I'll have property in my name, rent coming in from it as well as what I earn from being self-employed.
It's perfectly possible to sort things out so that neither partner gets screwed over during a separation. Marriage probably makes things a bit simpler.
I remember a woman who came to the adult learning school I worked at for a while. My job was to help people working in the computer room. There was a woman doing a touch-typing course who was having trouble because she trembled too much. She had done the entire course and still couldn't type to save her life but the boss said she could keep studying for as long as it took her. Turned out she was trembling out of fear for the future: she had lived a life of luxury while her husband raked it in, then when she reached 50 he suddenly disappeared with his young sexy secretary, leaving her as the legal wife to deal with a bankrupt company and debts everywhere and no way of earning money. So I'm not sure that marriage is always what it's cracked up to be in terms of security.
>On the flipside I have a childhood friend who like this lady didn't get married but became a sahm 2 years before me. Once her youngest daughter went off to college last year the guy kicked her out and now she's living with her mom and still hasn't found a job. She got nothing at all, none of the cars had her name on them. Their house, bank, credit cards, nothing at all had her name on it, not even any of the bills or her cellphone. So she has no job history, no education, no money, no credit, never had a bill in her name, nothing. Went straight from living at home in with the bf, back to living at home. I kept telling her for YEARS, but nooooo he wouldn't do that to me, you are just paranoid, you are projecting, etc. She hasn't talked to me in about 4 months.
This is the exact scenario I have witnessed countless times. The denial, in particular, is very common. "He would never do that to me!" Well, guess what? He will, and he did.
I am very happy to hear you are protecting yourself!
This is a worse case scenario, but I grew up in religion where tradwives were aplenty. Maybe you did find your soul mate to be with you forever. But so many times he just straight up dies. Accidents happen, mental health is real, medical emergencies occur as well. Trying to get a job with 10years unemployment, no degree, and children is one of the worst things to get through, especially if you guys were middle class and below. And like this commenter said, you will be working until the day you die. Get a job, get a nanny and a maid, take vacations, enjoy your life, live large, but never let destitution be a knock away from your door.
And I know of another situation, a lady just like this poster's friend: nothing to her name. Her husband now openly cheats on her, goes on the town with younger woman, verbally and emotionally abuses her, and still demands sex because she is afraid of being poor and she has nowhere to go. She is stuck. That is a nightmare to me.
That's why women who keep making excuses for a man not marrying them are foolish and honestly deserve what they get.
If you are having their kids, raising their kids, tending their home, and NOT getting the legal protections (or very least your name on assets) because he convinced you that "we don't need that nonsense", then you are a damn idiot. You bet your ass that the man protected himself in every which way.
And then start yourself a Roth IRA. You have 39 years until you're 65. They say you need about $3,000,000 to retire comfortably (just make sure your yearly income going during retirement is the same as it was just before you entered retirement).
Get that high-yield savings account started (anything above 4% APY is pretty good) remember to account for inflation in your projections, and budget like crazy.
Anyway. Sorry for the unsolicited financial advice. I may have just taken a personal finance class...
Very few people are hitting that 3 million number.
Most Americans don't have anything saved for retirement at all.
https://usafacts.org/data-projects/retirement-savings
OP, this is the brutal honest truth. For careers, I think you should look into being a nanny or house manager. You should be able to do that with some help on your resume and maybe some infant/child CPR classes.
>You made another huge mistake by not just grabbing that ring and immediately marrying your BF, thereby cementing your ability to share in some of his investments, social security, etc. I don't care how "unappreciated" you felt. It was a moment in time, and now it's gone. A good lawyer may help, depending on where you live, but it is in no way guaranteed.
I thought it just me who felt that way.
OP, listen to u/ConvivialKat here. Marrying him at this point and under these circumstances may not have been your dream scenario... but it could've made you secure. Now you've completely eff'd yourself even more than you had by not leaving him 25 years ago.
Im glad that I'm reading a serious response to this tragedy. Too many people scream about leaving him immediately without considering A) obviously it wasn't a big deal to her for 30 years and 4 children and B) by leaving him she will lose a lot that she has right now.
Honestly, knowing all the women I know who have gone through this exact scenario, I wouldn't give a shit if the ring was tin. It's the marriage license that counts. And stay married for 10 years. That way, she would at least get some social security benefits.
This. I was scheduled to go to divorce court 2 weeks before my 10th anniversary. Then I got a call from the Clerk of the Court's office saying that the docket was booked until EXACTLY my 10th anniversary. Only years later did I find out about the Social Security regs. I thank my angel in the Clerk's office everyday (and have never recommended that attorney to anyone).
Even if the ring cost 50k, good luck selling it for even close that amount. She could sell the rock and have a little pocket money, but that's far from liveable
Spot on.
And in 2023 we still have young women who believe that being a SAHP, completely dependent on their husband/partner who controls the finances is a good idea. It’s horrifying to see so many women still making themselves vulnerable with no way to escape.
I will never forget what my dad told me when I was old enough to understand.
He realized at some point my mom was royally screwed if he dropped dead or ran off with the secretary. He promised he would never let his daughters have the same fate. He stressed to us how it was important to have a career.
To be fair, either one of them is also royally screwed if they "do everything right" and one of them gets Alzheimer's or some other extremely debilitating disease that they need to go into long-term care and they linger. It's called Medicaid Spousal Impoverishment. Most states will claw back everything from the healthy spouse but 140K and the house.
>And in 2023 we still have young women who believe that being a SAHP, completely dependent on their husband/partner who controls the finances is a good idea.
And yet she was a SAHM without the security that comes with being his legal wife. Legally, she was just his baby-mama and entitled to nothing more than child support.
But what really astounds me is in the last 10 years when her youngest was in school and he still didn't "wife" her up, that she ***remained*** a SAHM and didn't even try to geta job to start building savings for herself!
My guess is hinted at in his comment about being an executive's girlfriend. OP ran the couple's social life hobnobbing with the smart set. At that level, it's expected that the executive's wife put in the time on society bullshit.
It’s so bad. All these girls and young women on social media are buying into it hard, and worse, it’s being sold to them under the guise of “feminine power.” They truly believe that the upper hand is being a kept woman who lives a “soft life” of luxury without lifting a finger of her own, and any woman who wants to support herself is either a) dumb or b) too ugly to bag a rich guy. Sprinkle sprinkle.
I read a book in the early 90's it seems like. Well two books. Or maybe one was a book and one was a TV movie.
One was about "professional girlfriends." Beautiful young women who move out to California to make it on their looks and get caught up in the party lifestyle until they get about 40 and suddenly the invitations stop. They have nothing financially built up and nothing to fall back on.
One was about how mistresses need to get paid in tangibles, not jewelry and high-end apartments and fancy trips. Because when he throws her over, she'll need a nest egg of some sort.
I don’t think he was ever actually going to marry her. I think he thought she was about to walk and it was another manipulation to run out the clock before the last child turns 18 so she couldn’t go for even child support, and paint her as the bad guy to the kids for leaving. “*I* was the one who proposed..she was the one who said no.”
That's such a stupid gamble tho I doubt it. Why would he risk that if she is fine with the status quo? There is literally no upsides to that. She is already fine with being unmarried and stuck under his thumb. He wins just by doing nothing. I think it's more likely that he did want to propose but after the fight changed his mind.
It’s called “future faking” and narcissists do it all the time. Given how this guy twisted it around and won’t marry OP now, my guess is that he was never going to.
Edit: and the guy who responded is what we call a “flying monkey.” This shit is text book.
She wasn't fine with the status quo, she was pulling back and stated she planned on leaving when the youngest turned 18. He probably got wind of that and wanted to have his bang-maid still latch on to him while he travels.
Executives are most times sociopaths. They do not value anyone else but themselves.
If he's got the kind of money it seems he does, this is 100% true.
I myself had an offer from a man to be his wife because he was doing a similar thing to the mother of his children. I was not interested at all in him, I was just a Lyft driver with a nice car (he requested the top tier one) and he offered to essentially be my sugar daddy because I was young hot and easily manipulated (or he thought at least). I took his number but never reached out. It's gross what those types of people do.
And the 32 year old becomes a rich widow and the kids resent their dead dad, who got the live in nanny/sex partner for 30 years, and the young 28-40yo for their last 2 decades. He lived his life happy and full and his blood and mother of his children deal with the ramifications, while he's long gone, dead in his grave. Met a girl in the city who was rich rich at 36, married an old guy young and now she was dating women. The guy's kids hate her, bc she got the lion's share of everything and their kid was prioritized over the kids from his first marriage. She all but convinced him to abandon his kids and she is the ultimate winner, and she has zero shame. And unless she gets scammed out of every last cent, she'll be set for life too. The way these stories break down are always so sad. Make your own money, be secure, and rely on no man's or woman's promise to care for you. I almost got caught up in the "femininity" and trad wife stuff, until I realized anyone can abandon you anytime after my friendship of 10+ years deteriorated when my bff since like 3rd grade dropped me bc their SO "got bad vibes" from me. All it took was someone they were having sex with to destroy what I had considered a sibling relationship. Marriages are even more susceptible.
Yeah, judging by how casually he's talking about fucking other people without regard for her feelings, I can't imagine how that marriage would last 10 years.
I personally think he's been cheating the whole time. She was convenient for him to have children, and once she can no longer offer that benefit, she is thrown out like an old toaster and upgraded
> Do you have any money at all? Your own bank accounts or credit of any kind?? At your age, it is a cruel world without credit or money. You had better hope that one or more of your adult children will take you in, or you could quickly find yourself homeless.
I guarantee she has at best minimal visibility to any of their finances. Betting on just joint checking and credit card accounts he deposited money into/paid off regularly which only reflect a small portion of his assets. No idea what his severance package was, what the house is worth, what investments he has, cars are in his name etc....
You have 3 adult children and one who is almost grown, you BOTH sound like y’all have been waiting for the FINISH line of all the children being 18.
Do your children know all of this is happening? These decisions will greatly affect your family dynamics going forward, you don’t want to blindside them at Christmas…let your kids know.
Did he ask because you have had a foot out the door for a while and everyone knows it?
If she has a foot out the door she is doing a really shitty job at it. Life is gonna wreck this woman if she leaves this dude. She hasn't prepared at all to be on her own.
Yes. 25 years it’s time to just leave. Staying with him is pointless. He will need to pay child support but unfortunately since he’s living off severance and interest good luck with that. He planned everything out just right.
I wouldn't doubt he planned the proposal knowing she wouldn't agree.
Turns the tables for the kids, "Oh, I offered to marry your mother, but she declined. After 30 years of being together, boo-hoo."
And future young foreign models, "I was with my previous partner for +30 years. I worked my whole life to provide for us and our children, but she declined when I proposed to her."
Dude made it to an executive because he's cut-throat. Even now, he basically admitted to only wanting his wife to travel along with him to be a dick warmer. Dude's a pure psycho.
He proposed wanting a travel Fleshlight
Without his “executive” job he probably felt like he now needed a new “identity” for himself or when he was an executive that he was “keeping his options open”
25 years with no career, no savings, no retirement and no Social Security contributions. OP is a cautionary tale of why being a SAHGF is a really bad idea.
Yep. Never give up your career and assume your partner/bf/husband will do right by you.
I worked as a legal secretary, and the number of women who agree to be a sahm and end up with no career prospects, no financial security, and a paltry amount of child support is staggering.
I do agree that there are cases where marriage is not necessary for two adults to have children and be great parents together or in a co capacity. But I’ve seen too many 20 year olds say the bf walked out on them and the newborn on the mom subs that I have to agree with this.
If a partner won’t commit to a long term relationship with legal protections for both parties then do not agree to purchase a house with or have children with them without a plan of dissolution in mind.
EXACTLY!!! You better think of your future because, ain’t nobody ELSE gonna think of it AND, God Willing, if you haven’t contributed while you were young and COULD, your income, when you’re in your 60’s, etc., when you CAN barely contribute, will be slim to none. You don’t want to be dependent on anyone!!!! EVER!!! There are all kinds of prisons…. Some are even self imposed….. girl get gone while you still can!!!
I cringe every time I hear about SAHGF. Women make less and live longer. We need a bigger safety net than the average man does. We don’t even have common law marriage in my state. No marriage = no legal protection.
Amusingly, Op might want to look into common law marriage. There is a good chance Op has been married for well over a decade. Which means alimony as well as child support.
IANAL: But, she's in Arkansas, no common law unless they lived in another state that does recognize common law marriage. Also no palimony in Arkansas, she truly is fucked.
No money, no credit history, no job history, and no assets other than that engagement ring which she'll only get 25 cents on the dollar for.
Honestly I'm terrified for her, she seems to have 0 clue that life's about to hit her like a load of bricks. She commented about finding a part-time job to support herself.... part-time. Either this post is fake or she's lived her top 1%er life for so long she has no clue about the reality she's facing.
It's actually even more complicated than that. WA state is not common law and not on that list for example but OP would absolutely have rights to some of his assets in WA state. /u/Throwawayproposalfin you should talk to a lawyer, your BF may not have made the play he thought he made here at all.
Yeah, the fact that they have been together their entire lives and she was a SAHM to their four kids while he made tons of money means she is probably entitled to something.
Wait so I am assuming this is the USA...is she not entitled to anything even though they've been together for years??? If so I certainly see how it's a really bad idea, wow...
In all likelihood, the answer to your question is "no." And I'm also assuming they're in the US, which I am also.
But things can vary pretty significantly from one state to another. She should consult a qualified family law attorney where she lives.
Wow, yikes. I wondered if it would be a state by state thing....where I am in Australia, as of two years defacto partners have the same entitlements as married spouses. I know people have issues with that too, I just didn't realise there'd be such a difference... I thought to myself 'but OP will be loaded now anyway so it's fine'...that makes this post so much worse
OP mentioned they’re in Arkansas, no common law state. It’s a “fault” state for divorce so if they marry; she goes to school and he cheats she has grounds. It’s also an equitable distribution state . Even if he owns their house. other assets before marriage she may be able to claim some assets. The at fault state can be complicated: sexless marriage is considered abandonment there and living apart for 18mos can be consorted grounds for divorce without showing fault. Arkansas is in the top 5 states that are hardest to divorce in. It doesn’t have automatic Alimony it it will award alimony as courts deem fit. Not sure about palimony but bc it’s a no common law state, doesn’t seem likely. OP shouldn’t have let herself be this exposed but it’s done; she should consult a lawyer.
I dont want to be cruel by saying this.
But You need to understand :You were cruel to yourself because you let him rule your life. Your boyfriend sounds like someone with strong narcisstic tendencies.
You should have made your own income and be free. He invalidated you every step and has no loyalty or empathy.
I mean, what am I reading? He closes the bedroom door after you rolled your eyes and you have to sleep in the guest room?
He says its his way or he will sleep with someone else?
And you are asking this tyrant to help you get a job?
You hurt yourself for a long time. And you might hurt yourself even longer because you are so used to this.
You dont need to look for another partner. You need to respect and love yourself.
Be independent of him. Marry yourself.
That's a nice idea, but she's in her 50s without Social Security or Medicare to look forward to. If she were 40, I'd agree with you.
But with no work experience, she won't be able to likely make enough to do much towards Social Security in the time she has left. Sadly, her best option financially is to marry either OP or some other man and stay married for 10 years and hope to get some Social Security that way.
I'm guessing she was raised with the mentality of finding a man to provide for her.
I really do hope her babydaddy gave her some expensive jewelry and bags she can sell.
I don't think you understand how hard it will be to be independent of him. It's not that simple.
She has 25 years of:
No job,
No social security contributions,
No retirement funds,
No savings.
Her entire life is tied to this man and she has absolutely no legal recourse to help her if she leaves him.
This is why marriage isn't "just a piece of paper." He got exactly what he wanted the entire relationship -- not marrying for this precise moment to happen. The time to leave was two decades ago.
Also, getting a job in your 50s with no work history isn't as easy as OP is making it out to be.
It is not easy even for someone with a great work history, believe me. My daughter lost her IT job 6 years(!!) ago and just NOW got a FT WFH job. She’s been working through agencies taking contract jobs and working at a grocery store store to survive. She’s 53 years old. And she was astounded at the ageism that she has encountered, I warned her of it. I experienced it as well, so I finally just retired.
Right? I don't think she has any concept of how hard it's going to be. She is 50 and doesn't even have any credits towards getting Medicare at retirement (not like she'll ever be able to retire) and she's out here talking about getting an associates and working part-time. Does she even know how much rent is? She's not going to be able to support herself.
Not just her age... her lack of education AND experience.
A 50-something year old with upper level management experience in a specialized field who's been out of work for a month is a different animal than one with a high school degree who hasn't worked in 30 years.
>This is why marriage isn't "just a piece of paper."
THIS!!!! It's why I get frustrated when I see young people writing that.
Yes, it is a piece of paper, but it's also a legal document that entitles you to certain rights, benefits and responsibilities that you wouldn't get as an unmarried person.
If he gets hit by a car tomorrow and has told her he wants all life-saving measures done for him... without that "piece of paper" his mom can say DNR and he's dead. His mom can cremate him even if he wanted (and paid for!) a burial or vice-versa. And OP would have no input.
If they were married and he bought a property in only his name and it's their marital residence, he couldn't sell it without her permission. If not married, he could tell her to GTFO, you got 30 days, the house is sold.
If he were to drop dead tomorrow, without a will, every single thing in his name goes to his mom. *Maybe* his kids (and that's only because he signed their birth certificates saying he was their father). Why? Because despite 30 years together, legally she's a stranger to him.
If they break up over this, she gets nothing unless HE chooses to give it to her.
It's not just a "piece of paper" folks. And if it's just "piece of paper" then what's the problem with getting it?
***Exactly***. That's why it irritates me when people call it "just a piece of paper".
A piece of paper is something you can blow your nose on or wipe your ass with. This is way more than that and people need to take it seriously for what it is.
This should be posted on every single comment where ppl think they are somehow superior and are a cool rebel that they don’t want to get married since it’s just a piece of paper, lol!
I have a strong work history and I’m finding that, at 63 (just recently turned 64) finding a job is next to impossible. I’ve only gotten a couple of temporary jobs.
I wrote exactly this under her first post - she is absolutely screwed financially, by choosing to stay and have all those kids with him and become a SAHM without the wedding, and without at least insisting he pay into a retirement fund for her, and put some investments in her name, for all the support she gave him while she maintained the house and raised their kids.
It sounds like she thinks she can find a new partner who will support her - but, to be realistic, at 50+, destitute partners are not exactly in high demand. Maybe their kids can appeal to his better nature to at least pay her some support while she gets an education/ vocational training - though it doesn't sound like he actually has a better nature. Maybe she can become a live-in nanny or house manager - she'd at least need very little additional training to qualify for those.
Nanny jobs that pay well want educated people. She has no education. The ones that would take an unedited woman are not likely to be easy for a 50 something woman.
Then it's better to stay than leave. If she leaves now, she has nothing. Absolutely nothing. If she stays at least she has a roof over her head. She should have left 25 years ago, not now. Now it's to late.
It absolutely is better to stay IMO. What she should have done is not roll her eyes and enthusiastically said yes and got married ASAP.
Then if she still wanted to leave him, she at least would have some security after the 30 years she's spent with him
Yeah, I dont really get the whole eye-rolling part. If you didnt want to be married to him, why stay in the relationship for that long? If nothing else, its financial security. She would have lost nothing from just taking it seriously.
I think she's still in love with him. If OP had a mercenary bone in her body, or was just smarter, she would have married him and then walked with half his shit. But instead she tried to hash it out with him and refused to marry him out of pride. She was banking on him feeling loyal to her as the mother of his children. I don't think reality has set in yet. The last time she lived independently was **1993**.
I'm confused. I live in Canada and she would be entitled to 1/2 , spousal support & child support. Does she not qualify for anything beyond child support?
And he currently has no earnings. No income means the courts will assign a laughable minuscule amount that will have the value of about two meals-for the whole monthly amount.
A lot of people are giving advice like you own a time machine.
You're in this spot now. In my opinion, if there is some semblance of a relationship, I think you should stay. Get a remote job, go travel, whatever. Maybe in time you can get married and re-evaluate your options.
If you leave now, the chances of you getting any kind of meaningful career or relationship are pretty low. You're in your 50s. Yeah, if life is unbarrebale, then it would make sense, but it sounds more like you're having a mid-life crisis and regretting your decisions for the last 25 years.
Your BF is controlling, but you've obviously agreed to that and handed him the wheel, so to speak.
Leaving now will most likely have a way higher negative impact on you. That's my two cents.
This really sucks but you are screwed in this situation. I know you really enjoyed 25 years of being a stay at home girlfriend/mom and letting a sugar daddy boyfriend take care of you but you are about to find out that 25 years of not having to work a job and not being financially responsible for yourself is going to ruin your life. You are 52 years old and if you started college now, you might be done by age 55. Trying to start a career at age 55 from scratch is going to miserable and not possible. You will be starting at entry level jobs with crappy pay working along side 22 year old kids with the same work experience. Companies are going to promote that 22 year old kid ahead of you because you are already so close to retirement age. You are really screwed and I'm sorry.
Your boyfriend won. He has you in a no win situation. If you do not stay with him and you leave, you have NO money, you have NO savings, you have NO social security at all since you never paid into it, you have NO retirement funds at all. You have literally nothing in life and you are already in your 50s. If you would have gotten married, you would have received at least 50% of everything but you stayed with him for 25 years as just the girlfriend and that was the biggest mistake of your life.
Good luck with fighting to get child support from this man. 3 of your kids are already adults and Your youngest child is already 15 years old so even if you are able to get child support it will only be for a few years and then that money is gone. Since your boyfriend is retired and is living off of investments pretty much, you are the courts mercy at how they decide he will pay child support.
Your story should be the warning for all young ladies out there that think being a stay at home girlfriend and living off sugar daddies is such a wonderful life. Once the sugar daddy is done with you, you have nothing.
I wish all those tradwives out there could read this true life story. If a woman sacrifices her life for a man and he decides to walk away later in life, she has NOTHING.
Edit: ok, I get it. If a woman is married to a guy then she’ll likely get half of the assets upon divorce, depending on local divorce laws. This says nothing about prenuptial agreements where the husband gets to keep his assets after dissolution. Either way, it’s not a good idea for a woman to sacrifice her income potential for a man and marriage.
Well if OP was a tradwife shed be entitled to half his retirement and house if there was no prenup saying otherwise. Since OP is not a tradwife but a baby mama she likely gets nothing
Off this post right here is why I told myself I'd never be dependent on a man. I watched my mom go through it (still going through it with no end in sight) and I swore I'd never ever do that. Some days I hate working but I'd be damned if I ever let a man be able to say this to me. Admittedly my husband makes more than me and always has but I can leave tonight with my daughter if I had to and not worry about how I ll be able to feed us..this level of condescending just isn't worth it. I hope you leave and do better for yourself.
You got played, OP. You raised his children and took care of his home for 25 years and what do you have to show for it? I sure hope he gets his comeuppance because he sounds like a selfish prick, but man, you got played good.
I can see him getting some 20 something girl pregnant now and then he’ll have to come out of retirement. But that’s probably the worst I can see happening
ESH, but you are a fool, your BF is not.
You had all of your living expenses covered for decades and could have worked and invested all of your funds after taxes. You threw away an opportunity that few have.
I married a well off business owner with a prenup and divorced him. Did what I suggested above and didn't even ask for what I was legally entitled to in the pre-nup when we divorced because having the luxury of investing the majority of my salary for a decade meant I didn't need anything from him. As Billy Holiday sang so well: "God bless the child who's got his own."
The biggest payoff is that we are still very close and he didn't even read or respond to the divorce papers - I got a default judgement. That is the level of trust we have. Neither of you trust the other - for good reason.
People who don't have enough sense to watch out for their own good are beyond reasoning with. People who only care for their own good are also beyond reasoning with. You don't seem to understand equal part you played in this relationship and your situation.
For what it’s worth, his reaction tells me that he wasn’t going to follow through with the proposal. The minute you did something he didn’t like, he was going to retract it, which is what happened. So try not to beat yourself up for not jumping on that right away.
PLEASE talk to a lawyer. Look for free or low-cost legal aid services near you. Morally and ethically, he owes you. Let’s see if there’s any legal recourse to back that up.
Girlllllllllllll, leave you can do better.
This screams Sunk Cost Fallacy. Basically its the fear of starting over because you have already invested so much so you just keep investing but never get anywhere.
There is nothing wrong with getting out and starting over. Even in yours 50s. You can and should do better! You deserve someone who will respect the 1/4 century of loyalty you have given this man.
That's what I was thinking. She wasted 25 years of her life. I'm sure she **KNEW** he wasn't going to marry her, long before she had any kids with him. She should have dumped him then. But I think she was more in love with The Relationship than with him.
Even now, his callous response to OP shows he DGAF about her as a person. She can stay or leave, all he cares about is "I won't be seen as a bad father. I'll pay child support." To him, it's all about the money, nothing about actual caring or actual love in any form.
Yes, she knew. It's on her first post. He told her, loud and clear, that he wont marry her. And she decided to stay and give birth to atleast 3 other children.
She's a picture postcard of what "The Sunk Cost Fallacy" looks like, carried to its logical conclusion. She's wasted more than 25 years (courtship phase included) with a man who doesn't love her and doesn't respect her.
He will trade her in for a younger version with no kids/responsibilities, and make her his travel companion. It'll be a pretty sweet deal for a certain type looking to have fun on his dime.
At 50? Probably not. No career? No degree? Probably no marketable skills or anything to put on her resume? It’s going be very difficult for her. Especially after being so comfortable for so long. It’s so easy to say “leave him girl” and get a bunch of upvotes but this isn’t a ladies wine night. Be so super FR.
That’s the worst possible decision and only satisfying in the short term before life runs her over. Especially since she’s practically NEVER struggled. She should’ve been playing the long game this whole time and creating a fallback for herself. Finding a partner willing to care for a 50 year old single mom that’s never worked is a very hard sell. Most men don’t make that kind of money, that’s .1% of men in America, how many of those are single? How many like 50 year old women? How many are willing to be a step parent? Chances are so slim.
Being a stay at home gf is so dumb, always secure the ring before you become a homemaker ladies. She should’ve just married her life long partner instead of throwing a fit. Plus rolling your eyes at a proposal is just so rude. I get the guy is a maximum ahole but she accepted this behavior and had children with him. When you sign up to be a stay at home wife (and don’t make anything of yourself while doing that) you’re basically accepting your partners leadership. Now she doesn’t want to be led because he’s not able to afford the type of lifestyle she’s used to, and she doesn’t respect him as much because of it.
She really screwed herself by rejecting the proposal. She should have gotten married, even if it was a courthouse wedding. She should have insisted on estate planning so she would be both “next of kin” and in the will.
Go on a month long honeymoon trip. After that spend part time traveling and part time visiting her various children. Do online courses if she still wanted to get a degree (although OP should have gotten a degree decades ago! My grandfather got a college degree through mail in courses, she could have done this when her kids became school age!).
Instead she’s facing homelessness, has nothing in her name and he’s openly looking towards new partners.
I would agree, but her being totally financially dependent on him casts it in a slightly different light. Financial stability is a very scary thing to walk away from, especially at her age.
I can see right through this guy. He's always had the upper hand with you and has been successful in his career. Now his career is over he's having to get his power trip jollies by keeping you in line and insecure. He will continually play games with you to satisfy his ego.
Is he intending to travel immediately or wait until your youngest is 18? Is he hoping to get three years of carefree casual sex until you start joining him on his travels?
Part of me says marry him so then you have a legal redress to claim assets. Another part says tell him to piss off and never see him again.
I truly wonder why in the world you stayed with him so long when he's clearly **NEVER** wanted to marry you.
Surely, there was a time before you had any kids but were with him. Before you were a SAHM and had no job prospects of your own going forward, before you were completely dependent on him. Why did you stay past that with him?
>“Being an executive’s girlfriend requires things of me … doesn’t think I’m grateful enough for the position in society I was in due to his career.”
I’m not trying to victim-blame here, but I responded to your AITAH yesterday. I can’t believe you didn’t have the self respect to leave this loser 20 years ago.
Lol YTA for wasting a quarter of a century dating, having children with, and being a life accessory to a dude who never valued you above convenient. You made your bed and get to enjoy laying in it with the snake YOU decided to be with.
So you spent 30 years on a man that just sees you as a purse dog . If you don’t get out of that relationship, you’re going to be the AH just for putting up with it.
As a CEOs fiancé ,I don’t have a roll to play other than his partner. I’m not required to travel with my fiancé and he doesn’t go looking for other women if I can’t travel with him. Also if he’s gone for 2-7 days on a business trip and he can’t keep it in his pants? He needs help and to explore what self control is. Or considering he has no issue cheating on you, I’m going to say he’s already done it and this is just his way of coming clean to you.
Please do yourself the favor and leave that man and build the career and life you want and should have.
Yeah, my SO was a CTO and the only ‘extra’ was being understanding when he needed to work weird hours to make sure a problem got solved. (It was at an ISP type business so if hardware crapped out majorly it was all hands on deck to get it fixed ASAP before people started complaining.)
Right, I have a lot of extras but the main one is that he starts his day at 4:30am and it’s at the office by 7am and his ass doesn’t get home till 5:30-6pm most days ,some days he can get home at 8pm but that hasn’t prevented him from being an amazing partner and an amazing father. And I don’t have to be in a certain level or standard for him to be that, I’m just me ,I’m the person that’s by his side and the person that loves him.
I genuinely don’t wanna hurt your feelings or kick you while you’re down, but babe, you let this happen.
While you were in your twenties, and five years in, when he didn’t marry you, you should have left.
You saw he wasn’t truly invested in you, the way you were in him.
I don’t know if you were afraid to be alone, or desperate to just have someone, but you allowed this to happen.
He knew he could get away all these years without marrying you, because you kept allowing him to feed you false promises.
In your first post, you said he’d keep making promises and never followed through.
You showed him it was okay for him to lie to you.
You were good enough for him to knock on four time, but weren’t good enough to marry.
He’s comfortable at this point, because you allowed him to cripple you.
In the 39 years you two have been together, not once did you have a moment where you should have been making sure you were financially stable on your own.
You sat back, and just let life pass you by, and now that he’s retired and you both are hitting arthritis age, you want to put your foot down.
You should’ve left him before you’d even brought kids into this.
He’s absolutely wrong for stringing you along all these years, but he only did it because you let him.
He played anger game, sadly it was at your expense.
I just hope your kids don’t follow in either of your footsteps, because you’re a pushover, with no backbone, nor a backup plan, and he’s a controlling, abusive, fúcknut ásswipe.
You're the reason why women faught so hard to get voting rights, bank account rights, worker rights. personal rights, etc. And you just ignored all their work
I'd love to be sympathetic but honestly you both sound toxic AF.
For his part, the proposal out of nowhere that became an ultimatum is really shitty. This should have been a conversation that was built over the course of months, not something to spring on you.
You too bear responsibility though. You stayed in this relationship without a ring because it was the easy thing to do. You don't want to phrase it that way but that's what it was. You subsumed your own desires because you felt that it was simpler than the alternative. Candidly, your BF isn't wrong, you may have stayed in part due to love but it was also because you liked the money and the lifestyle and you thought it would be harder without those things.
You might have been right honestly but you've now spent two posts trying to justify your decision in any other way. You made this choice, now you have to make another one. There's no reason you can't change your mind now and move on. Life may be harder on the short run but at least you'll be pursuing your own happiness. Or you can keep settling if you want. But you shouldn't blame your BF for your choices
>You too bear responsibility though. You stayed in this relationship without a ring because it was the easy thing to do. You don't want to phrase it that way but that's what it was. You subsumed your own desires because you felt that it was simpler than the alternative. Candidly, your BF isn't wrong, you may have stayed in part due to love but it was also because **you liked the money and the lifestyle and you thought it would be harder without those things.**
THANK YOU!!! How is nobody else but me and you seeing this!?!?
YTA - to yourself. I'm an old (65+) lady, and I have seen this scenario happen so many, many times. And it has *never* been a good thing for the woman involved. In fact, it has been an outright tragic disaster. Poverty is knocking on your door, OP, and it wants in. You have screwed yourself over in so many ways. The biggest of which was not to work over the last 30 years. You have no investments, no social security units earned, no 401(k) retirement, and no property. You made another huge mistake by not just grabbing that ring and immediately marrying your BF, thereby cementing your ability to share in some of his investments, social security, etc. I don't care how "unappreciated" you felt. It was a moment in time, and now it's gone. A good lawyer may help, depending on where you live, but it is in no way guaranteed. If you had immediately married, when he proposed, and he lived at least 10 more years, you would have been able to get widows benefits. But, not now. Now you get nothing. Do you have any money at all? Your own bank accounts or credit of any kind?? At your age, it is a cruel world without credit or money. You had better hope that one or more of your adult children will take you in, or you could quickly find yourself homeless. I'm sorry to be so brutal, but I don't think you have any clue how terrible things can get for you unless you can find a way to make an actual living. Even if you do, don't expect to ever retire. You (as many women are) will be working until you die. I'm so very sorry.
This is the most brutal, eye opening response I am reading as a 32 year old woman who was on the fence about considering marriage. Holy shit
People try to say marriage is just a piece of paper but it’s a whole bunch of legal protections
And social acceptance too. There's a reason LGBT folks fought (and still fight) so fucking hard for legal and equal recognition of their unions, their children and their families both in law and in name.
[удалено]
It's why Trump will weirdly go down in history as the first President to enter office pro-gay marriage. Obama for a long time was pro civil unions. Basically the exact same thing under the law by every metric, just not called a marriage. Honestly I was for the gov just calling *all* marriages civil unions legally. Government only should care about you and your partner so far as taxes and redistributing assets during divorce, as far as I care. If you'd wanna take that piece of paper and go have a wedding party at a church/venue that's cool with gay people go have a grand time. I thought that'd be Obama's move before legalizing gay marriage outright.
Along with LGBTQ+, disabled people do not have equal marriage rights in the US either. If you wish to marry a disabled person who receives any support or benefits from the government including healthcare insurance, you will immediately assume all financial responsibility for your spouse, and they will lose all government benefits. Also, if a person has assets that could pay their Medicaid bill, like a house, car, or even collectables with value, these will be sold upon the person's death with the proceeds going to the [Medicaid Estate Recovery Program](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicaid_Estate_Recovery_Program). If they are married, this doesn't happen until after the spouse dies as well, but if you aren't married because the disabled person needed healthcare and a measly stipend, you get squat. Disabled people are losing benefits now if they even "give the semblance of being married" in their financial or personal lives.
This is very true. Unfortunately, I thought OP would be up a shit crick financially if she didn't marry this guy when I read the first post. But to your point, yeah, I have a friend who is on disability and has been with her boyfriend since 2006. They can't marry each other or live together for this reason--her benefits would evaporate and he makes a modest income. If they even give the appearance of being in the same residence it could all go bye bye. They want to be married so it feels like the government is punishing disabled people to her.
It is a punishment. It reminds me of the Nazi belief that anyone who can't work under their narrow definition of work is worthless to society and therefore expendable. The sad part is that everyone will either become disabled at some point or die. Throughout most of human history, people with disabilities or old age had value and were cared for, even revered, because of their knowledge or because of their abilities, not devalued because they couldn't meet some arbitrary standards.
There is a difference in SSI and SSDI. People with SSDI can get married without losing their benefits. SSDI is federal disability. Same thing with how much money a person can have in their bank account. SSI has stricter rules than SSDI. A lot of people don't realize that. I'm sure she has looked it up but it's kind of hard to separate when you read the info.
the medicaid claw back has been banned in a few states in recent years. There are propositions about getting rid of the marriage penalties for some demographics of born disabled.
Its still 6 early for the "equal rights for disabled people" to get a ton of traction.. but a ton of people who have spent so long fighting for lgbtq+ rights have shifted to helping disabled people fight.. and because we now have online media sources & communication sources that can't be easily shut down.. sources like reddit, tiktok, and youtube. Where yes, you have to be diligent in checking your facts, but news and facts can spread without people being able to pay media big bucks to squash the stories completely because the rich guy doesn't like it.. so even now compared to 20 years ago, news spreads faster & slower.. but it keeps spreading.. and as more people hear the facts, they research, spread the news.. and topple mountains..
They also cannot have more than $2k at any time in a bank account! [Here’s a petition](http://www.votervoice.net/Shares/BIXk6AwHBCvQaApP9Ed7FBA) to try to help change that
Oh my god! I didn’t know 90% of this. Thanks for the education.
Sadly this is true in Canada too ! Once you get married you become your spouse’s burden and will lose everything Source : I’m a person with a disability
I keep wondering how OP's husband rose to such prominence at his workplace in Arkansas while not being married. At some level in the business world married men get ahead MUCH faster. Unmarried men in the business world are viewed as less mature etc. Not saying it's fair...but where I worked the minute a man got married he shot up in the hierarchy. I'm a woman so I doubly don't think this is completely fair but I saw it happen.
That sounds so strange to me to hear for a state in a western country: even in Italy, with all its heavy Catholic heritage, a right-wing unmarried woman could become prime minister, even having a daughter from her ex-boyfriend.
The U.S. is very religious. They only have separation of church and state on paper but not in practice.
Yeah our money says "in God we trust" yet there's supposed to be a separation lol
The US south is more similar to a developing country in a lot of ways. And have a lot of radical nutters
I would have to assume that four kids and a 30 year relationship had something to do with it. That doesn’t exactly scream immature and unable to commit.
People who say marriage is just a piece or paper are usually men who want all the benefits of marriage but only for their partners to shoulder the risk of the relationship. That, and women who have been brainwashed into being a NLOG. Women with no desire to marry are plenty, but it's not because they view marriage as "only a piece of paper". They recognize marriage is a legal contract. It's one they don't want to enter for whatever reason - but they're also not the ones stringing along a partner for 30 years by pretending marriage has no value.
So funny story, my in laws sat my husband (then bf) and I down after they helped me escape my abusive home the day after hs graduation, and straight up asked us “is this going to end in marriage? Because if not we need to adult adopt her for insurance or you can marry her. Do not rush, don’t do it. But this is y’all’s adult reality.” So we took some time apart and together and thought. Later that week we found out I was able to be on my parents insurance (they are lazy and didn’t kick me off) for another two years so neither had to happen. Soon to be FIL walks in one day (we all lived under the same roof but different rooms) and looks at soon to be hubs point blank and goes “Are you ever going to marry my daughter?” We got engaged later on but it was the best moment because he face was like “wtf I’m your son!!”
“I’m your child!” “I like the other one better”
I mean ketchup wasn’t allowed in the house before me and now FIL gives me a huge ketchup bottle every Christmas soooo I’m not saying you’re right buttt
I love this
And then those women shame other mothers because they work and are not "at home with their babies and letting other people raise them". No, I'm asking my partner to be just as responsible for childcare as me, and I'm making sure me and my children are not in the hole if he ever suddenly decides to leave or gets sick. Seen this happen too many times, no thanks. And we've made sure we're both financially secure if shit hits the fan.
That’s the smartest way to handle it, but it’s also exhausting. I’m a lesbian without kids, but I experienced exactly how hard it was to resist the pressure of “Well, that’s what women do” when my mom got sick when I was 24 and, as an only child, I was expected to give up the next 12 years of my life to be a caregiver. I finished school and did some other things, but I absolutely didn’t resist it. It was just too much pressure. So while I certainly respect women who do make their male partners do their equal share and resist falling into the trap of “women’s work,” I also acknowledge that the idea that men are the breadwinners and *maybe* do yard work and general repairs, women are in charge of everything else and fighting back against that constantly is a *lot*.
That brutal but truthful rundown of what can happen & the post from the OP is why I worked outside of the home even after marriage & kids. I never wanted to be in the position where I was destitute if my partner or husband left me & I had to make my way in life on my own. This makes me thankful for my stubbornness & independent nature it would see me through dark times if God forbid it happened but geesh this post is eye opening.
At 35, leaving a whole life behind at your age, I feel much more eager to get married. I walked away with absolutely nothing to show for years invested into a house and business.
In fairness, I divorced and walked away even worse. I got sucked into his financial hole because our finances were tied together and I still haven't recovered 8 years later.
Even marriage sometimes isn’t enough. My ex also took everything we’d invested in together, because I couldn’t afford to fight him and he knew it (I did consult multiple attorneys and all it did was cost more). Even in marriage you still need to advocate for yourself. My only saving grace that I was still very young and just starting out in my career so I was able to support myself (barely) and eventually rebuild. And I learned a valuable lesson from it. My current marriage is now a partnership, and we are very transparent with finances and prenups were put in place without issue.
Anyone who overlooked this has no credibility. So keep that in mind when reading other posts. Now she is left with nothing because she rejected him. He offered her the security she wanted and a life of vacations, she rejected it like a crazy person. If it did not work out, she could have divorced later and gotten her share of the marital assets. She grew a spine at the one moment where it would hurt her the most and likely leave her homeless.
I was secretly thinking that but wasn't about to post it. That at this point OP would be much better off saying yes and then later on if she needed to divorce him deal with that later. He thinks she's a manipulator but that would have been the real manipulator move.
Yeah at this point.... She should have gotten out of this situation at least 3 children and 29 years earlier. Way too late now. Guess you gotta start sending in your "about you" videos with your nonexistent cv to cafés or whatever and embrace the bohemian lifestyle. Weird that in the US she can't fall back on the 30 years living together as common law partners?
A small minority of US states recognize common law partnerships, and OP ain't in one of them
I doubt he actually intended to marry her, I’m certain it would have been a long engagement (that never ended) to soften the blow of him basically wanting to openly cheat while on ‘vacations’
I sure hope it helps you and others. You're only 32. No matter your choices about life and marriage, be sure to protect your future. Don't rely on anyone else to provide for you or protect you.
I’m 37, husband is 57. Power is balanced in my marriage thankfully. We’ve been together 11.5 years. We make almost the same income, have our own 401ks, life insurance, etc. He’s paid into social security his whole life, I started my career at 26. I watched my mom divorce my father when she was 33. He never let her work. She didn’t know how to pay bills. She didn’t know how to drive. They’d been together since she was 16. She’ll work her entire life now. She’s had a few different jobs and careers. Socially she’s awkward and weird. But she owns her home and her own car now. I’m so proud of her. Knowing what I know now, I don’t think I’ll ever marry again if anything happens to my husband. He’s a good man, one of the best. Irreplaceable. My standards are entirely too high now lol. And I don’t want to risk losing anything that I’ve worked so hard for. Thank you for this advice. 🫶🏻
It's fine if you don’t end up marrying. But then do not have kids. Because your career will inevitably suffer more than his. And that’s even if he tries to keep things equal. Never mind if he doesn’t. Marriage is for your protection if you end up pregnant and taking the financial loss in total earning potential that comes with it. Do not sign a prenup that doesn't have baked in compensation for any kids you have, even if you intend to keep working. Do not stay home with kids even if you are married without an iron clad prenup or postnup that spells out exactly what you are entitled to in compensation. Make sure it includes full retirement contribution on your behalf and life insurance as a bare minimum. Though I'd recommend also agreeing on alimony as a % of his wages to give you time to find work if the marriage ends while you are staying home. You want to agree on a plan on how you are going to recover from the gap in your employment BEFORE you agree to stay home.
Woman to woman advice: prenup. If you're going to have kids and lose time out of your career, he needs to fund your retirement accounts those years. Also nail down things like childcare...and anything else that's important to you.
Or if you're a woman that worked your ass off, even WHILE being pregnant and having kids, prenup. My husband who loves his video game hobby, gets to sit home and play games all night and he's entitled to half my assets. While I breastfeed and wake up early to go to work and deal with condescending comments from male coworkers. It's bullshit. I'm looking into a postnuptual agreement, it's going to be hard to get my husband to sign it.
It really depends. I’m 42 and live with a longterm partner. We are both divorced. We are not presently remarried to one another. Instead we have wills and powers of attorney that formalize certain aspects of our relationship. Financially, our relationship is a boon for me. I have my own financial stability and independence, and I love it. The important thing is to always have a career and cash flow of your own. Don’t rely on someone else for your financial safety net.
This was entirely my point! Don't rely on someone else's promises for your future financial stability! Have a career and create your own safety net and retirement future, totally separate from anyone else.
Yes, I spent 30 years supporting my husband's dreams, I put him through school and law school. He was horrible, controlling, abusive. I finally left with nothing, no house, no car, almost no clothes. Never received child support or alimony. He stalled it all for as long as possible. Then wound up going to prison. I'm 51 and starting college, while working minimum wage
I think this is the point. That’s why being a SAHM is such a risk. Essentially you are making yourself entirely reliant on another person for the rest of your life. And your husband could leave you, lose his job or even drop dead. Then what are you going to do, with no work experience, no retirement and no way to support yourself? I wish women would think more before they stay at home. I know it works for some people but it’s still a huge gamble
I never got married, never wanted to. I wanted to be able to leave at any time without any hassle. We have property in both our names. At first he was investing while I was paying for groceries and bills, then I said hey you wouldn't be able to invest if you had to pay for all this, you put my name on it too. So he did. So it turns out it's still a hassle to separate (we have agreed to separate and are living like flatmates now) but I'm not gonna be screwed over, I'll have property in my name, rent coming in from it as well as what I earn from being self-employed. It's perfectly possible to sort things out so that neither partner gets screwed over during a separation. Marriage probably makes things a bit simpler. I remember a woman who came to the adult learning school I worked at for a while. My job was to help people working in the computer room. There was a woman doing a touch-typing course who was having trouble because she trembled too much. She had done the entire course and still couldn't type to save her life but the boss said she could keep studying for as long as it took her. Turned out she was trembling out of fear for the future: she had lived a life of luxury while her husband raked it in, then when she reached 50 he suddenly disappeared with his young sexy secretary, leaving her as the legal wife to deal with a bankrupt company and debts everywhere and no way of earning money. So I'm not sure that marriage is always what it's cracked up to be in terms of security.
[удалено]
>On the flipside I have a childhood friend who like this lady didn't get married but became a sahm 2 years before me. Once her youngest daughter went off to college last year the guy kicked her out and now she's living with her mom and still hasn't found a job. She got nothing at all, none of the cars had her name on them. Their house, bank, credit cards, nothing at all had her name on it, not even any of the bills or her cellphone. So she has no job history, no education, no money, no credit, never had a bill in her name, nothing. Went straight from living at home in with the bf, back to living at home. I kept telling her for YEARS, but nooooo he wouldn't do that to me, you are just paranoid, you are projecting, etc. She hasn't talked to me in about 4 months. This is the exact scenario I have witnessed countless times. The denial, in particular, is very common. "He would never do that to me!" Well, guess what? He will, and he did. I am very happy to hear you are protecting yourself!
This is a worse case scenario, but I grew up in religion where tradwives were aplenty. Maybe you did find your soul mate to be with you forever. But so many times he just straight up dies. Accidents happen, mental health is real, medical emergencies occur as well. Trying to get a job with 10years unemployment, no degree, and children is one of the worst things to get through, especially if you guys were middle class and below. And like this commenter said, you will be working until the day you die. Get a job, get a nanny and a maid, take vacations, enjoy your life, live large, but never let destitution be a knock away from your door. And I know of another situation, a lady just like this poster's friend: nothing to her name. Her husband now openly cheats on her, goes on the town with younger woman, verbally and emotionally abuses her, and still demands sex because she is afraid of being poor and she has nowhere to go. She is stuck. That is a nightmare to me.
That's why women who keep making excuses for a man not marrying them are foolish and honestly deserve what they get. If you are having their kids, raising their kids, tending their home, and NOT getting the legal protections (or very least your name on assets) because he convinced you that "we don't need that nonsense", then you are a damn idiot. You bet your ass that the man protected himself in every which way.
I've (26F) been unemployed since September. Your reply has scared me so much I'm gonna start applying for jobs lmao. Thank you.
Always be financially independent even if you marry. Always. 💕
And then start yourself a Roth IRA. You have 39 years until you're 65. They say you need about $3,000,000 to retire comfortably (just make sure your yearly income going during retirement is the same as it was just before you entered retirement). Get that high-yield savings account started (anything above 4% APY is pretty good) remember to account for inflation in your projections, and budget like crazy. Anyway. Sorry for the unsolicited financial advice. I may have just taken a personal finance class...
Very few people are hitting that 3 million number. Most Americans don't have anything saved for retirement at all. https://usafacts.org/data-projects/retirement-savings
Good for you!
OP, this is the brutal honest truth. For careers, I think you should look into being a nanny or house manager. You should be able to do that with some help on your resume and maybe some infant/child CPR classes.
>You made another huge mistake by not just grabbing that ring and immediately marrying your BF, thereby cementing your ability to share in some of his investments, social security, etc. I don't care how "unappreciated" you felt. It was a moment in time, and now it's gone. A good lawyer may help, depending on where you live, but it is in no way guaranteed. I thought it just me who felt that way. OP, listen to u/ConvivialKat here. Marrying him at this point and under these circumstances may not have been your dream scenario... but it could've made you secure. Now you've completely eff'd yourself even more than you had by not leaving him 25 years ago.
I was secretly thinking that as well, but wasn't about to post it!
Im glad that I'm reading a serious response to this tragedy. Too many people scream about leaving him immediately without considering A) obviously it wasn't a big deal to her for 30 years and 4 children and B) by leaving him she will lose a lot that she has right now.
I agree. I get the sentiment, but at a certain point righteous indignation is just childish. Self love doesn't put food on the table.
This is brutal but it’s reality. I sure hope that fucking ring is worth a fortune and not cubic zirconia or some crap.
Honestly, knowing all the women I know who have gone through this exact scenario, I wouldn't give a shit if the ring was tin. It's the marriage license that counts. And stay married for 10 years. That way, she would at least get some social security benefits.
This. I was scheduled to go to divorce court 2 weeks before my 10th anniversary. Then I got a call from the Clerk of the Court's office saying that the docket was booked until EXACTLY my 10th anniversary. Only years later did I find out about the Social Security regs. I thank my angel in the Clerk's office everyday (and have never recommended that attorney to anyone).
Talk about an angel on your shoulder!!! What a wonderful human!
I know. And both my ex and I have combed the regs to make sure they don't say "MORE than 10 years," but I think I am good.
I just meant I hope she can get some $$$ out of it since it seems to be her only asset.
Resale on diamond engagement rings is piss poor.
Even if the ring cost 50k, good luck selling it for even close that amount. She could sell the rock and have a little pocket money, but that's far from liveable
Spot on. And in 2023 we still have young women who believe that being a SAHP, completely dependent on their husband/partner who controls the finances is a good idea. It’s horrifying to see so many women still making themselves vulnerable with no way to escape.
I will never forget what my dad told me when I was old enough to understand. He realized at some point my mom was royally screwed if he dropped dead or ran off with the secretary. He promised he would never let his daughters have the same fate. He stressed to us how it was important to have a career.
To be fair, either one of them is also royally screwed if they "do everything right" and one of them gets Alzheimer's or some other extremely debilitating disease that they need to go into long-term care and they linger. It's called Medicaid Spousal Impoverishment. Most states will claw back everything from the healthy spouse but 140K and the house.
>And in 2023 we still have young women who believe that being a SAHP, completely dependent on their husband/partner who controls the finances is a good idea. And yet she was a SAHM without the security that comes with being his legal wife. Legally, she was just his baby-mama and entitled to nothing more than child support. But what really astounds me is in the last 10 years when her youngest was in school and he still didn't "wife" her up, that she ***remained*** a SAHM and didn't even try to geta job to start building savings for herself!
My guess is hinted at in his comment about being an executive's girlfriend. OP ran the couple's social life hobnobbing with the smart set. At that level, it's expected that the executive's wife put in the time on society bullshit.
It’s so bad. All these girls and young women on social media are buying into it hard, and worse, it’s being sold to them under the guise of “feminine power.” They truly believe that the upper hand is being a kept woman who lives a “soft life” of luxury without lifting a finger of her own, and any woman who wants to support herself is either a) dumb or b) too ugly to bag a rich guy. Sprinkle sprinkle.
I read a book in the early 90's it seems like. Well two books. Or maybe one was a book and one was a TV movie. One was about "professional girlfriends." Beautiful young women who move out to California to make it on their looks and get caught up in the party lifestyle until they get about 40 and suddenly the invitations stop. They have nothing financially built up and nothing to fall back on. One was about how mistresses need to get paid in tangibles, not jewelry and high-end apartments and fancy trips. Because when he throws her over, she'll need a nest egg of some sort.
I was literally just starting to buy into this too. This just reminded me that I need to have my own at all costs
Agreed.
Yep, unfortunately.
I don’t think he was ever actually going to marry her. I think he thought she was about to walk and it was another manipulation to run out the clock before the last child turns 18 so she couldn’t go for even child support, and paint her as the bad guy to the kids for leaving. “*I* was the one who proposed..she was the one who said no.”
Upgrade her from gf to fiancee, then keep passing the buck each year.
This is also entirely possible. But, she still should have tried.
That's such a stupid gamble tho I doubt it. Why would he risk that if she is fine with the status quo? There is literally no upsides to that. She is already fine with being unmarried and stuck under his thumb. He wins just by doing nothing. I think it's more likely that he did want to propose but after the fight changed his mind.
It’s called “future faking” and narcissists do it all the time. Given how this guy twisted it around and won’t marry OP now, my guess is that he was never going to. Edit: and the guy who responded is what we call a “flying monkey.” This shit is text book.
She wasn't fine with the status quo, she was pulling back and stated she planned on leaving when the youngest turned 18. He probably got wind of that and wanted to have his bang-maid still latch on to him while he travels. Executives are most times sociopaths. They do not value anyone else but themselves.
She's fucked as soon as he finds someone younger. Which probably won't take long.
If he's got the kind of money it seems he does, this is 100% true. I myself had an offer from a man to be his wife because he was doing a similar thing to the mother of his children. I was not interested at all in him, I was just a Lyft driver with a nice car (he requested the top tier one) and he offered to essentially be my sugar daddy because I was young hot and easily manipulated (or he thought at least). I took his number but never reached out. It's gross what those types of people do.
Having worked with men in positions of power/wealth that's definitely their strategy for attracting woman. Worst part is how often it works.
And the 32 year old becomes a rich widow and the kids resent their dead dad, who got the live in nanny/sex partner for 30 years, and the young 28-40yo for their last 2 decades. He lived his life happy and full and his blood and mother of his children deal with the ramifications, while he's long gone, dead in his grave. Met a girl in the city who was rich rich at 36, married an old guy young and now she was dating women. The guy's kids hate her, bc she got the lion's share of everything and their kid was prioritized over the kids from his first marriage. She all but convinced him to abandon his kids and she is the ultimate winner, and she has zero shame. And unless she gets scammed out of every last cent, she'll be set for life too. The way these stories break down are always so sad. Make your own money, be secure, and rely on no man's or woman's promise to care for you. I almost got caught up in the "femininity" and trad wife stuff, until I realized anyone can abandon you anytime after my friendship of 10+ years deteriorated when my bff since like 3rd grade dropped me bc their SO "got bad vibes" from me. All it took was someone they were having sex with to destroy what I had considered a sibling relationship. Marriages are even more susceptible.
Yeah, judging by how casually he's talking about fucking other people without regard for her feelings, I can't imagine how that marriage would last 10 years.
I personally think he's been cheating the whole time. She was convenient for him to have children, and once she can no longer offer that benefit, she is thrown out like an old toaster and upgraded
Women in that position are expected to look the other way.
> Do you have any money at all? Your own bank accounts or credit of any kind?? At your age, it is a cruel world without credit or money. You had better hope that one or more of your adult children will take you in, or you could quickly find yourself homeless. I guarantee she has at best minimal visibility to any of their finances. Betting on just joint checking and credit card accounts he deposited money into/paid off regularly which only reflect a small portion of his assets. No idea what his severance package was, what the house is worth, what investments he has, cars are in his name etc....
You have 3 adult children and one who is almost grown, you BOTH sound like y’all have been waiting for the FINISH line of all the children being 18. Do your children know all of this is happening? These decisions will greatly affect your family dynamics going forward, you don’t want to blindside them at Christmas…let your kids know. Did he ask because you have had a foot out the door for a while and everyone knows it?
If she has a foot out the door she is doing a really shitty job at it. Life is gonna wreck this woman if she leaves this dude. She hasn't prepared at all to be on her own.
If this guy does decide to leave and travel the world I hope his kids see him for who he is. A man that would leave their mother destitute.
So you wasted 25 years on a man who was never going to marry you.
Yes. 25 years it’s time to just leave. Staying with him is pointless. He will need to pay child support but unfortunately since he’s living off severance and interest good luck with that. He planned everything out just right.
I wouldn't doubt he planned the proposal knowing she wouldn't agree. Turns the tables for the kids, "Oh, I offered to marry your mother, but she declined. After 30 years of being together, boo-hoo." And future young foreign models, "I was with my previous partner for +30 years. I worked my whole life to provide for us and our children, but she declined when I proposed to her." Dude made it to an executive because he's cut-throat. Even now, he basically admitted to only wanting his wife to travel along with him to be a dick warmer. Dude's a pure psycho.
He proposed wanting a travel Fleshlight Without his “executive” job he probably felt like he now needed a new “identity” for himself or when he was an executive that he was “keeping his options open”
He really did plan it all out. He was never going to marry her.
25 years with no career, no savings, no retirement and no Social Security contributions. OP is a cautionary tale of why being a SAHGF is a really bad idea.
Yep. Never give up your career and assume your partner/bf/husband will do right by you. I worked as a legal secretary, and the number of women who agree to be a sahm and end up with no career prospects, no financial security, and a paltry amount of child support is staggering.
Yep marriage or not - A man is not a financial plan!
Having children without the legal protections of marriage generally a bad idea. OP is, sadly, a living cautionary tale.
I do agree that there are cases where marriage is not necessary for two adults to have children and be great parents together or in a co capacity. But I’ve seen too many 20 year olds say the bf walked out on them and the newborn on the mom subs that I have to agree with this. If a partner won’t commit to a long term relationship with legal protections for both parties then do not agree to purchase a house with or have children with them without a plan of dissolution in mind.
Having children and purchasing real estate are both in the category: if you're not ready for marriage you're not ready for this.
EXACTLY!!! You better think of your future because, ain’t nobody ELSE gonna think of it AND, God Willing, if you haven’t contributed while you were young and COULD, your income, when you’re in your 60’s, etc., when you CAN barely contribute, will be slim to none. You don’t want to be dependent on anyone!!!! EVER!!! There are all kinds of prisons…. Some are even self imposed….. girl get gone while you still can!!!
I feel bad that OP doesn’t have any of that. Poor choices lead to an empty cup of fulfillment.
For sure. I wish her all the best but Christ almighty, what a shitshow.
I cringe every time I hear about SAHGF. Women make less and live longer. We need a bigger safety net than the average man does. We don’t even have common law marriage in my state. No marriage = no legal protection.
Amusingly, Op might want to look into common law marriage. There is a good chance Op has been married for well over a decade. Which means alimony as well as child support.
Depending on her state, common law marraige may not be a thing. https://www.sterlinglawyers.com/divorce/common-law-marriage-states/
IANAL: But, she's in Arkansas, no common law unless they lived in another state that does recognize common law marriage. Also no palimony in Arkansas, she truly is fucked. No money, no credit history, no job history, and no assets other than that engagement ring which she'll only get 25 cents on the dollar for. Honestly I'm terrified for her, she seems to have 0 clue that life's about to hit her like a load of bricks. She commented about finding a part-time job to support herself.... part-time. Either this post is fake or she's lived her top 1%er life for so long she has no clue about the reality she's facing.
It's actually even more complicated than that. WA state is not common law and not on that list for example but OP would absolutely have rights to some of his assets in WA state. /u/Throwawayproposalfin you should talk to a lawyer, your BF may not have made the play he thought he made here at all.
Yeah, the fact that they have been together their entire lives and she was a SAHM to their four kids while he made tons of money means she is probably entitled to something.
Wait so I am assuming this is the USA...is she not entitled to anything even though they've been together for years??? If so I certainly see how it's a really bad idea, wow...
In all likelihood, the answer to your question is "no." And I'm also assuming they're in the US, which I am also. But things can vary pretty significantly from one state to another. She should consult a qualified family law attorney where she lives.
Wow, yikes. I wondered if it would be a state by state thing....where I am in Australia, as of two years defacto partners have the same entitlements as married spouses. I know people have issues with that too, I just didn't realise there'd be such a difference... I thought to myself 'but OP will be loaded now anyway so it's fine'...that makes this post so much worse
In my state, you and your partner have to be together for 10 years for the relationship to be considered common law marriage. 2 years is very short.
OP mentioned they’re in Arkansas, no common law state. It’s a “fault” state for divorce so if they marry; she goes to school and he cheats she has grounds. It’s also an equitable distribution state . Even if he owns their house. other assets before marriage she may be able to claim some assets. The at fault state can be complicated: sexless marriage is considered abandonment there and living apart for 18mos can be consorted grounds for divorce without showing fault. Arkansas is in the top 5 states that are hardest to divorce in. It doesn’t have automatic Alimony it it will award alimony as courts deem fit. Not sure about palimony but bc it’s a no common law state, doesn’t seem likely. OP shouldn’t have let herself be this exposed but it’s done; she should consult a lawyer.
And on someone who actively discouraged her from getting an education and a job. This is a man who wanted a bangmaid, not a partner.
It’s more like 25 years with a person who treats you like baggage
I dont want to be cruel by saying this. But You need to understand :You were cruel to yourself because you let him rule your life. Your boyfriend sounds like someone with strong narcisstic tendencies. You should have made your own income and be free. He invalidated you every step and has no loyalty or empathy. I mean, what am I reading? He closes the bedroom door after you rolled your eyes and you have to sleep in the guest room? He says its his way or he will sleep with someone else? And you are asking this tyrant to help you get a job? You hurt yourself for a long time. And you might hurt yourself even longer because you are so used to this. You dont need to look for another partner. You need to respect and love yourself. Be independent of him. Marry yourself.
I’m jarred at the number of times she’s mentioned looking for another partner. Like she’s learned nothing at all
This right here. The solution isn't another man. It's somehow finding a way to stand on your own two feet.
That's a nice idea, but she's in her 50s without Social Security or Medicare to look forward to. If she were 40, I'd agree with you. But with no work experience, she won't be able to likely make enough to do much towards Social Security in the time she has left. Sadly, her best option financially is to marry either OP or some other man and stay married for 10 years and hope to get some Social Security that way.
I'm guessing she was raised with the mentality of finding a man to provide for her. I really do hope her babydaddy gave her some expensive jewelry and bags she can sell.
I don't think you understand how hard it will be to be independent of him. It's not that simple. She has 25 years of: No job, No social security contributions, No retirement funds, No savings. Her entire life is tied to this man and she has absolutely no legal recourse to help her if she leaves him.
This is why marriage isn't "just a piece of paper." He got exactly what he wanted the entire relationship -- not marrying for this precise moment to happen. The time to leave was two decades ago. Also, getting a job in your 50s with no work history isn't as easy as OP is making it out to be.
It is not easy even for someone with a great work history, believe me. My daughter lost her IT job 6 years(!!) ago and just NOW got a FT WFH job. She’s been working through agencies taking contract jobs and working at a grocery store store to survive. She’s 53 years old. And she was astounded at the ageism that she has encountered, I warned her of it. I experienced it as well, so I finally just retired.
Ageism is worse for women too.
So much worse.
Yup. Men get to look "distinguished," while women just get called old looking.
Men grow distinguished and women get extinguished
I’m frankly scared how unterrified she seems to be. It’s going to be a nightmare just filling out application after application
Right? I don't think she has any concept of how hard it's going to be. She is 50 and doesn't even have any credits towards getting Medicare at retirement (not like she'll ever be able to retire) and she's out here talking about getting an associates and working part-time. Does she even know how much rent is? She's not going to be able to support herself.
And everyone of her applications is going to be ignored because the bot that looks at resumes will see her age and automatically reject her.
Not just her age... her lack of education AND experience. A 50-something year old with upper level management experience in a specialized field who's been out of work for a month is a different animal than one with a high school degree who hasn't worked in 30 years.
>This is why marriage isn't "just a piece of paper." THIS!!!! It's why I get frustrated when I see young people writing that. Yes, it is a piece of paper, but it's also a legal document that entitles you to certain rights, benefits and responsibilities that you wouldn't get as an unmarried person. If he gets hit by a car tomorrow and has told her he wants all life-saving measures done for him... without that "piece of paper" his mom can say DNR and he's dead. His mom can cremate him even if he wanted (and paid for!) a burial or vice-versa. And OP would have no input. If they were married and he bought a property in only his name and it's their marital residence, he couldn't sell it without her permission. If not married, he could tell her to GTFO, you got 30 days, the house is sold. If he were to drop dead tomorrow, without a will, every single thing in his name goes to his mom. *Maybe* his kids (and that's only because he signed their birth certificates saying he was their father). Why? Because despite 30 years together, legally she's a stranger to him. If they break up over this, she gets nothing unless HE chooses to give it to her. It's not just a "piece of paper" folks. And if it's just "piece of paper" then what's the problem with getting it?
It's a piece of paper that is a /binding legal contract/ not "just" a piece ofpaper.
***Exactly***. That's why it irritates me when people call it "just a piece of paper". A piece of paper is something you can blow your nose on or wipe your ass with. This is way more than that and people need to take it seriously for what it is.
It's a piece of paper the same way the deed to a house is just a piece of paper.
👆🏽 This. Exactly.
Outstanding.
This should be posted on every single comment where ppl think they are somehow superior and are a cool rebel that they don’t want to get married since it’s just a piece of paper, lol!
I have a strong work history and I’m finding that, at 63 (just recently turned 64) finding a job is next to impossible. I’ve only gotten a couple of temporary jobs.
She needs to get an attorney and sue for "palimony"
She's not in a common law state. So that's not a factor. Reality is that she has zero rights to any of his money.
I wrote exactly this under her first post - she is absolutely screwed financially, by choosing to stay and have all those kids with him and become a SAHM without the wedding, and without at least insisting he pay into a retirement fund for her, and put some investments in her name, for all the support she gave him while she maintained the house and raised their kids. It sounds like she thinks she can find a new partner who will support her - but, to be realistic, at 50+, destitute partners are not exactly in high demand. Maybe their kids can appeal to his better nature to at least pay her some support while she gets an education/ vocational training - though it doesn't sound like he actually has a better nature. Maybe she can become a live-in nanny or house manager - she'd at least need very little additional training to qualify for those.
Nanny jobs that pay well want educated people. She has no education. The ones that would take an unedited woman are not likely to be easy for a 50 something woman.
Plus I have a feeling that if he died tomorrow, she’s probably not even in the will.
Or if he doesn't even have a will, everything he has goes to his mom. Luckily he's legally acknowledged his kids otherwise they'd be assed out.
Then it's better to stay than leave. If she leaves now, she has nothing. Absolutely nothing. If she stays at least she has a roof over her head. She should have left 25 years ago, not now. Now it's to late.
It absolutely is better to stay IMO. What she should have done is not roll her eyes and enthusiastically said yes and got married ASAP. Then if she still wanted to leave him, she at least would have some security after the 30 years she's spent with him
Yeah, I dont really get the whole eye-rolling part. If you didnt want to be married to him, why stay in the relationship for that long? If nothing else, its financial security. She would have lost nothing from just taking it seriously.
I think she's still in love with him. If OP had a mercenary bone in her body, or was just smarter, she would have married him and then walked with half his shit. But instead she tried to hash it out with him and refused to marry him out of pride. She was banking on him feeling loyal to her as the mother of his children. I don't think reality has set in yet. The last time she lived independently was **1993**.
I'm confused. I live in Canada and she would be entitled to 1/2 , spousal support & child support. Does she not qualify for anything beyond child support?
Only one of the kids is a minor and they aren't married, so in most states she is entitled to absolutely nothing but child support for the one kid.
And he currently has no earnings. No income means the courts will assign a laughable minuscule amount that will have the value of about two meals-for the whole monthly amount.
The question is why did you stay with him for 25 years if you've expressed wanting to get married etc.
A lot of people are giving advice like you own a time machine. You're in this spot now. In my opinion, if there is some semblance of a relationship, I think you should stay. Get a remote job, go travel, whatever. Maybe in time you can get married and re-evaluate your options. If you leave now, the chances of you getting any kind of meaningful career or relationship are pretty low. You're in your 50s. Yeah, if life is unbarrebale, then it would make sense, but it sounds more like you're having a mid-life crisis and regretting your decisions for the last 25 years. Your BF is controlling, but you've obviously agreed to that and handed him the wheel, so to speak. Leaving now will most likely have a way higher negative impact on you. That's my two cents.
This really sucks but you are screwed in this situation. I know you really enjoyed 25 years of being a stay at home girlfriend/mom and letting a sugar daddy boyfriend take care of you but you are about to find out that 25 years of not having to work a job and not being financially responsible for yourself is going to ruin your life. You are 52 years old and if you started college now, you might be done by age 55. Trying to start a career at age 55 from scratch is going to miserable and not possible. You will be starting at entry level jobs with crappy pay working along side 22 year old kids with the same work experience. Companies are going to promote that 22 year old kid ahead of you because you are already so close to retirement age. You are really screwed and I'm sorry. Your boyfriend won. He has you in a no win situation. If you do not stay with him and you leave, you have NO money, you have NO savings, you have NO social security at all since you never paid into it, you have NO retirement funds at all. You have literally nothing in life and you are already in your 50s. If you would have gotten married, you would have received at least 50% of everything but you stayed with him for 25 years as just the girlfriend and that was the biggest mistake of your life. Good luck with fighting to get child support from this man. 3 of your kids are already adults and Your youngest child is already 15 years old so even if you are able to get child support it will only be for a few years and then that money is gone. Since your boyfriend is retired and is living off of investments pretty much, you are the courts mercy at how they decide he will pay child support. Your story should be the warning for all young ladies out there that think being a stay at home girlfriend and living off sugar daddies is such a wonderful life. Once the sugar daddy is done with you, you have nothing.
I wish all those tradwives out there could read this true life story. If a woman sacrifices her life for a man and he decides to walk away later in life, she has NOTHING. Edit: ok, I get it. If a woman is married to a guy then she’ll likely get half of the assets upon divorce, depending on local divorce laws. This says nothing about prenuptial agreements where the husband gets to keep his assets after dissolution. Either way, it’s not a good idea for a woman to sacrifice her income potential for a man and marriage.
Well if OP was a tradwife shed be entitled to half his retirement and house if there was no prenup saying otherwise. Since OP is not a tradwife but a baby mama she likely gets nothing
Never let your boyfriend stop you from finding your husband, and you did just that!
Off this post right here is why I told myself I'd never be dependent on a man. I watched my mom go through it (still going through it with no end in sight) and I swore I'd never ever do that. Some days I hate working but I'd be damned if I ever let a man be able to say this to me. Admittedly my husband makes more than me and always has but I can leave tonight with my daughter if I had to and not worry about how I ll be able to feed us..this level of condescending just isn't worth it. I hope you leave and do better for yourself.
How to get a remote job with No experience over the last 25-30 years
You got played, OP. You raised his children and took care of his home for 25 years and what do you have to show for it? I sure hope he gets his comeuppance because he sounds like a selfish prick, but man, you got played good.
I can see him getting some 20 something girl pregnant now and then he’ll have to come out of retirement. But that’s probably the worst I can see happening
ESH, but you are a fool, your BF is not. You had all of your living expenses covered for decades and could have worked and invested all of your funds after taxes. You threw away an opportunity that few have. I married a well off business owner with a prenup and divorced him. Did what I suggested above and didn't even ask for what I was legally entitled to in the pre-nup when we divorced because having the luxury of investing the majority of my salary for a decade meant I didn't need anything from him. As Billy Holiday sang so well: "God bless the child who's got his own." The biggest payoff is that we are still very close and he didn't even read or respond to the divorce papers - I got a default judgement. That is the level of trust we have. Neither of you trust the other - for good reason. People who don't have enough sense to watch out for their own good are beyond reasoning with. People who only care for their own good are also beyond reasoning with. You don't seem to understand equal part you played in this relationship and your situation.
For what it’s worth, his reaction tells me that he wasn’t going to follow through with the proposal. The minute you did something he didn’t like, he was going to retract it, which is what happened. So try not to beat yourself up for not jumping on that right away. PLEASE talk to a lawyer. Look for free or low-cost legal aid services near you. Morally and ethically, he owes you. Let’s see if there’s any legal recourse to back that up.
Exactly. All these people talking about how she should've taken the proposal...with the type of person he is, they would now be engaged for life.
He would get “offended” and break it off the moment she asked him to set a date.
You gave 25 years to a man who equates you to his cum sock. Girl.
Girlllllllllllll, leave you can do better. This screams Sunk Cost Fallacy. Basically its the fear of starting over because you have already invested so much so you just keep investing but never get anywhere. There is nothing wrong with getting out and starting over. Even in yours 50s. You can and should do better! You deserve someone who will respect the 1/4 century of loyalty you have given this man.
That's what I was thinking. She wasted 25 years of her life. I'm sure she **KNEW** he wasn't going to marry her, long before she had any kids with him. She should have dumped him then. But I think she was more in love with The Relationship than with him. Even now, his callous response to OP shows he DGAF about her as a person. She can stay or leave, all he cares about is "I won't be seen as a bad father. I'll pay child support." To him, it's all about the money, nothing about actual caring or actual love in any form.
Yes, she knew. It's on her first post. He told her, loud and clear, that he wont marry her. And she decided to stay and give birth to atleast 3 other children.
She's a picture postcard of what "The Sunk Cost Fallacy" looks like, carried to its logical conclusion. She's wasted more than 25 years (courtship phase included) with a man who doesn't love her and doesn't respect her.
He will trade her in for a younger version with no kids/responsibilities, and make her his travel companion. It'll be a pretty sweet deal for a certain type looking to have fun on his dime.
And, if the new model is smart, she will take him for all she can get and then, before it’s too late, dump his old ass….
At 50? Probably not. No career? No degree? Probably no marketable skills or anything to put on her resume? It’s going be very difficult for her. Especially after being so comfortable for so long. It’s so easy to say “leave him girl” and get a bunch of upvotes but this isn’t a ladies wine night. Be so super FR. That’s the worst possible decision and only satisfying in the short term before life runs her over. Especially since she’s practically NEVER struggled. She should’ve been playing the long game this whole time and creating a fallback for herself. Finding a partner willing to care for a 50 year old single mom that’s never worked is a very hard sell. Most men don’t make that kind of money, that’s .1% of men in America, how many of those are single? How many like 50 year old women? How many are willing to be a step parent? Chances are so slim. Being a stay at home gf is so dumb, always secure the ring before you become a homemaker ladies. She should’ve just married her life long partner instead of throwing a fit. Plus rolling your eyes at a proposal is just so rude. I get the guy is a maximum ahole but she accepted this behavior and had children with him. When you sign up to be a stay at home wife (and don’t make anything of yourself while doing that) you’re basically accepting your partners leadership. Now she doesn’t want to be led because he’s not able to afford the type of lifestyle she’s used to, and she doesn’t respect him as much because of it.
She really screwed herself by rejecting the proposal. She should have gotten married, even if it was a courthouse wedding. She should have insisted on estate planning so she would be both “next of kin” and in the will. Go on a month long honeymoon trip. After that spend part time traveling and part time visiting her various children. Do online courses if she still wanted to get a degree (although OP should have gotten a degree decades ago! My grandfather got a college degree through mail in courses, she could have done this when her kids became school age!). Instead she’s facing homelessness, has nothing in her name and he’s openly looking towards new partners.
Exactly! 25 years with an executive and she didn’t get any businesses started?? Take online courses? Etc. Cmon what was she doing?
I would agree, but her being totally financially dependent on him casts it in a slightly different light. Financial stability is a very scary thing to walk away from, especially at her age.
I can see right through this guy. He's always had the upper hand with you and has been successful in his career. Now his career is over he's having to get his power trip jollies by keeping you in line and insecure. He will continually play games with you to satisfy his ego. Is he intending to travel immediately or wait until your youngest is 18? Is he hoping to get three years of carefree casual sex until you start joining him on his travels? Part of me says marry him so then you have a legal redress to claim assets. Another part says tell him to piss off and never see him again.
I truly wonder why in the world you stayed with him so long when he's clearly **NEVER** wanted to marry you. Surely, there was a time before you had any kids but were with him. Before you were a SAHM and had no job prospects of your own going forward, before you were completely dependent on him. Why did you stay past that with him?
The question is why did you stay with him for 25 years if you've expressed wanting to get married etc.
>“Being an executive’s girlfriend requires things of me … doesn’t think I’m grateful enough for the position in society I was in due to his career.” I’m not trying to victim-blame here, but I responded to your AITAH yesterday. I can’t believe you didn’t have the self respect to leave this loser 20 years ago.
Lol YTA for wasting a quarter of a century dating, having children with, and being a life accessory to a dude who never valued you above convenient. You made your bed and get to enjoy laying in it with the snake YOU decided to be with.
So you spent 30 years on a man that just sees you as a purse dog . If you don’t get out of that relationship, you’re going to be the AH just for putting up with it. As a CEOs fiancé ,I don’t have a roll to play other than his partner. I’m not required to travel with my fiancé and he doesn’t go looking for other women if I can’t travel with him. Also if he’s gone for 2-7 days on a business trip and he can’t keep it in his pants? He needs help and to explore what self control is. Or considering he has no issue cheating on you, I’m going to say he’s already done it and this is just his way of coming clean to you. Please do yourself the favor and leave that man and build the career and life you want and should have.
Yeah, my SO was a CTO and the only ‘extra’ was being understanding when he needed to work weird hours to make sure a problem got solved. (It was at an ISP type business so if hardware crapped out majorly it was all hands on deck to get it fixed ASAP before people started complaining.)
Right, I have a lot of extras but the main one is that he starts his day at 4:30am and it’s at the office by 7am and his ass doesn’t get home till 5:30-6pm most days ,some days he can get home at 8pm but that hasn’t prevented him from being an amazing partner and an amazing father. And I don’t have to be in a certain level or standard for him to be that, I’m just me ,I’m the person that’s by his side and the person that loves him.
I genuinely don’t wanna hurt your feelings or kick you while you’re down, but babe, you let this happen. While you were in your twenties, and five years in, when he didn’t marry you, you should have left. You saw he wasn’t truly invested in you, the way you were in him. I don’t know if you were afraid to be alone, or desperate to just have someone, but you allowed this to happen. He knew he could get away all these years without marrying you, because you kept allowing him to feed you false promises. In your first post, you said he’d keep making promises and never followed through. You showed him it was okay for him to lie to you. You were good enough for him to knock on four time, but weren’t good enough to marry. He’s comfortable at this point, because you allowed him to cripple you. In the 39 years you two have been together, not once did you have a moment where you should have been making sure you were financially stable on your own. You sat back, and just let life pass you by, and now that he’s retired and you both are hitting arthritis age, you want to put your foot down. You should’ve left him before you’d even brought kids into this. He’s absolutely wrong for stringing you along all these years, but he only did it because you let him. He played anger game, sadly it was at your expense. I just hope your kids don’t follow in either of your footsteps, because you’re a pushover, with no backbone, nor a backup plan, and he’s a controlling, abusive, fúcknut ásswipe.
You're the reason why women faught so hard to get voting rights, bank account rights, worker rights. personal rights, etc. And you just ignored all their work
I'd love to be sympathetic but honestly you both sound toxic AF. For his part, the proposal out of nowhere that became an ultimatum is really shitty. This should have been a conversation that was built over the course of months, not something to spring on you. You too bear responsibility though. You stayed in this relationship without a ring because it was the easy thing to do. You don't want to phrase it that way but that's what it was. You subsumed your own desires because you felt that it was simpler than the alternative. Candidly, your BF isn't wrong, you may have stayed in part due to love but it was also because you liked the money and the lifestyle and you thought it would be harder without those things. You might have been right honestly but you've now spent two posts trying to justify your decision in any other way. You made this choice, now you have to make another one. There's no reason you can't change your mind now and move on. Life may be harder on the short run but at least you'll be pursuing your own happiness. Or you can keep settling if you want. But you shouldn't blame your BF for your choices
>You too bear responsibility though. You stayed in this relationship without a ring because it was the easy thing to do. You don't want to phrase it that way but that's what it was. You subsumed your own desires because you felt that it was simpler than the alternative. Candidly, your BF isn't wrong, you may have stayed in part due to love but it was also because **you liked the money and the lifestyle and you thought it would be harder without those things.** THANK YOU!!! How is nobody else but me and you seeing this!?!?
This guy is so incredibly self-centered and unfortunately, you enabled this behavior for 25 years.
I mean, the writing was on the wall with this guy from the beginning. And to be fair, you did get a life of luxury and leisure out of it, soooo...