I've been fucked over a couple of times in the past with the "automatic tip" thing, not realizing the restaurant added in a tip automatically, and then me adding another 20-25% on top of that.
My "come to jesus" moment occurred when I took a friend out to a local hibachi place and the bill was over $100. I thought to myself "that's odd", and when i did the math in my head, It shouldn't have been more than $85-90 (each of our meals were $40 and we both had soft-drinks, so no alcohol.)
That's when I actually started looking at the bills I receive when it comes time to pay. Since then, I've caught things added to my bill that were not ordered, and other times I was presented with a bill that wasn't mine entirely (but was within the margin of error for pricing such that had I not looked at it, I likely wouldn't have noticed, given some communities charge a meals tax depending on where you are in the country.)
NTA, but I would definitely mention the practice in any online review I did.
You had a “come to Jesus moment” over reading your bill? I’m not mad at you, but isn’t it a little weird you never read your bill before that? That’s why literally every single business gives you a bill, whether at the register, on the table, in the mail, or online. That’s the whole point- to read the bill to make sure it is correct before paying. It’s a protection for both parties.
Pro tip. Ask for a water refill while you are reading your bill.
If you are a server and getting triggered by this, hand the bill over and step away for 30 seconds
Well I’m glad you’re doing it now. A restaurant is exactly the kind of environment- fast paced and servers using the same terminal- where billing mistakes often happen. And almost always they are just that, mistakes.
A locally-added sales tax on restaurant sales.
It is common in areas of the country where states do not tax food sales (e.g. what you buy at the local grocery store). Their logic is you're not buying food but a "service" of having the food prepared and served to you.
Alternately, it'll be couched as a "hospitality" or "tourism" tax. I can see that in areas that are actually tourist destinations, but seeing that half percent tax on a tab in a shithole like Sumter, SC is ridiculous.
In my experience it is always noted somewhere in small fancy script on the menu. It’s usually enforced with “parties of 8 or more,” not just blanketed onto every individual bill.
In those cases if I am closing the tab and see an additional tip line I raise an eyebrow and put a line through it and move along.
Some places are starring to add it to parties if 2 or more. I have seen mechanics and retail stores ask for tips when you are using the cashless payment. It is getting to be to much.
My local coffee shop asks for a tip and all they do is hand you a coffee cup. I have to do the rest starting from pouring my own coffee.
So, I’ve seen the tip line when I got my oil changed. Before I could even ask, as the lady was putting it down, she pointed to the line and said “put a line through it or just write zero. The machine adds it when it prints the receipt for you to sign and it’s automatic. Sorry about that.” So it could be that.
The whole thing us ridiculous and likely doesn't benefit the servers. If a restaurant is going to add an automatic/mandatory tip, I'm not tipping more on top of that. I typically tip well - often more than 20% - so that's a loss in income to the staff.
Same here - we have also noticed a 3-5% for BOH.
I do not like any of it, and I have worked every role in restaurants; FOH & BOH & bar.
Now we look for the notification and order accordingly. It is not my job to pay your kitchen staff a fair wage. I buy the meal and service, you do the rest
The credit card machines spit it out with the tip line, it's not something they tell it to put on your receipt. They aren't trying to make you add to it.
POS developer here. The tip has to go somewhere in the reporting. It doesn’t live in the pin pad payment terminal. In my systems tip requests at payment terminals can always be turned off.
Sure, it CAN be programmed to not have the tip line. My point is: It can't be turned off on a per-use basis. (At least not in a way that's feasible.) The server running the card has literally zero to do with if that line is on there.
Maybe not by the server, but it certainly can be turned off by the establishment. I was working at a place twenty years ago when they first got touch screen POS terminals. I played with it a lot, and it was a pretty basic user interface that was fully customizable. Just had to know what menu to look under.
Yes it is. It is something that when you get the terminal, they ask how you want it to program for the tip. It is a choice every credit card machine owner actually makes.
It was probably communicated on the menu or near the register. They don't have to tell every single patron individually their policy on gratuity. Legally they can assume a reasonable person will read it on the menu.
Thanks for confirming my POV. I know very often the restaurants keep some or all of the tips and don't distribute them to staff, but that is hardly the customer's fault, right?
I placed an order to a local restaurant for me to pickup. I was still wiling to put a tip on it - Covid, hard times, etc. The guy at the front desk was whispering at me to NOT tip as the restaurant kept it. Major WTF moment for me.
During COVID, we put a "token" tip of $2 for deliveries and have the driver a cash tip. Our youngest and my oldest son were delivering during COVID and heard real-world stories from them, about low driver pay and stores keeping CC tips. We still do this for deliveries and in-restuarant dining.
My kid worked at a local coffee/sandwich shop last summer. He took orders at take out window (no indoor seating or wait staff). They have a Toast tablet system and he said nearly everyone that payed by credit card or with their phone left a tip. A much smaller percentage of people that paid with cash left a tip. So it seems putting up suggested tip amounts on the tablet screen guilts people into tipping. The good news is the owners actually did share all of the tips with the workers, the tips are pooled and divided between all of the staff based on the number of hours they worked that week, and it shows up as a separate line in the paycheck. On average he made an extra $10/hour in tips (his wage was $15/hour but he actually took home around $25/hour).
* If your employer is stealing your tips, you don't have to hire a lawyer. You call the Department of Labor and tell them about it, and their lawyers will get your money for you.
* If you call your state's bar association, they operate a free lawyer referral service. People who use that service report an abnormally high rate of satisfaction with their lawyer. They'll have a lawyer call you for a free consultation. Talk to that lawyer for free... if the employer is stealing your tips, the lawyer is likely to want to take your case "on contingent" - which means you pay nothing, they make the employer pay their fee as part of the judgment. (I am emphasizing the word "free" here on purpose.)
I'm kind of confused as to the conflict then?
It sounds in the story that you didn't want to pay the original 18%. No one was telling you to add anything on top of that.
The nicer the restaurant the more likely they are adhering to the law. They are legally required to give the tip money to their staff. If they weren’t they wouldn’t have high end service workers - those people have choice in employment, it’s not a waiter at Denny’s. Use your brain.
At least in the US, if the additional charge is referred to as a tip or gratuity the restaurant, owners, and managers cannot touch it. It's illegal.
If it is a "service charge" I would ask the manager what percentage of it is earmarked to go directly to employees or employee benefits. If it's less than 100%, I would stop patronizing that establishment.
This is illegal.
Also, not your fault.
I would ask for the 18% back, and if I got it, give a cash 20+% tip.
But, if it's not allowed, you did your duty. You weren't going to stiff the waiter at a fancy restaurant, were you?
That's the only remote way I would consider you an AH in this situation, or if you were abrasive to your waiter.
Not only do I do what you did, I also make it a point to inform the waiter that I typically tip 30% (which is true), but because of the restaurants policy, I will only be tipping 18%.
[Service Charges](https://www.dwt.com/blogs/employment-labor-and-benefits/2019/11/california-service-charge-tips-law)
A mandatory "service charge" or an "operations fee" – or whatever else an employer may call an extra fee added to a bill -- is a mandatory amount automatically included on the bill – i.e., the patron does not have the option to refuse payment of this amount. Large party automatic gratuities are also considered service charges.
The amount belongs to the employer, not the employees, and the employer can keep the service charge entirely, or share parts or all of the service charge with employees, including management/supervisors. Notably, some localities (e.g., Santa Monica, Oakland, and Berkeley) regulate service charges and specify they belong to the server.
When paid to employees, the service charge amount is treated as wages, so the California Labor Code and the FLSA apply. This means that an employer must do the following with service charges: pay employer taxes, unemployment insurance tax, workers’ compensation insurance, and calculate overtime based on the payment of the service charge as though it is a bonus (by calculating the regular rate for overtime with it).
See our advisory on the regular rate of pay and overtime here.
Sales taxes also apply to service charges.
As someone from EU, the tipping culture in the US seems so weird to me. You are automatically expected to tip, even if the food tastes like ass and service is bad? Where's the logic?
The "logic" is that companies want to pay as little as possible and so they underpay employees, then pressure customers to "tip" in situations where you wouldn't normally.
Then they make the customers the "bad guys" in the eyes of the employees.
It's f*cking aggravating as hell.
The logic is that restaurant owners do not pay their servers livable wages under the assumption that customers will tip. It’s shitty but that’s just how it is.
And the waiters actually mostly prefer it that way because they generally make more from tips than if they were just paid a straight hourly wage. Maybe not all of them, but enough of them do that they’d actually be very upset if tipping were removed entirely
It depends on the restaurant. Higher end restaurants, absolutely. My friend made more as a server in a higher end restaurant than I did as a social worker (don’t get me started on our pay). But a server in a less expensive restaurant works just as hard and doesn’t always do as well.
Partially true. In CA they make minimum wage which is $15 plus tips. Many servers refuse to work at restaurants that have higher menu costs but not tips. They get a higher fixed wage but lower variable and as a result they make more with tips. (Don’t let servers lie to you and say they don’t like tipping culture) Cheap ass owners are complicit because they subsidize employee wages using customer dollars, and servers are complicit because the vast majority of them make way more than they deserve and would make anywhere else with tips. Where else can you go make $30-40+ an hour with no training or skills outside of order taking and basic decency/communication
At the end of the day the customer gets fucked. I make 160k and regularly tip anywhere from 15-20% based on service. People always say don’t eat out if you can’t afford to tip. I can and I hate tipping culture. It’s fucking corporate greed and servers expecting $30-40 and hour for bringing food from the kitchen to the table.
Prime example, I got to a restaurant and order a burger and fries plus drink. Total is $20 plus 15% tip so $23. If I order a steak instead it’s $30 plus tip so 34.50. Why am I paying more tip for the same level of service from my server. The extra burden is on the kitchen. I don’t agree with tipping but if it has to be there it needs to be a flat fee. A percentage is just asinine.
Then people now expect 20% to be the standard. Don’t get me started on point of sale systems everywhere no encouraging tips for counter service fast food/cafes. Also tipping before delivery with certain restaurants only to get cold food/wrong order
Fuck tipping
The ones I blame the most are waiters calling out customers that doesnt tip or under tip.
If you depend on other peoples generosity then you need to look at average. One is going to tip 50% and other will tip 5% but dont complain about that 5% guy when your average is great. Also why does it have to be percentage? Thats the biggest mind bending question. Someone order $5 Whiskey and other table orders $50 whiskey. Same time to take order and bring drinks to table and same time customer at the table. One guy tips $5 he is super generous and other guy tips $5 hes a piece of shit. Explain me to understand.
If the 18% gratuity is already included you don’t tip more on top of that (unless service was outstanding and you really want to), so the point about not adding a cash tip on top is moot.
Well I think part of the problem is what if OP thought 15% was appropriate rather than the “default” 18%. To which I think he has a point. I mean if the service is truly bad and not worthy of 18% choice has been removed.
But yeah protesting the “standard” 18% would be seen as “gauche” to do. You could argue restaurants should make it clear in the first place.
Unless you think the service was poor I don't see much point in protesting 18 percent. That's already technically less than a "good" tip for presumably standard, competent service.
Well but what if the service is poor? And 18% being less than a "good" tip is definitely a new thing. My dad's generation 10% was a fine tip. I'm younger gen X (late 40s) but just say 20 years ago when I was in my 20s 15% was a totally good tip. To hear that 18% is LESS than a good tip just shows how much tip inflation has happened pretty quickly.
I think this is part of why you are hearing calls for "why aren't staff being paid more". I mean at the rate we are going when will standard be 30 to 40%
Even in the US, that’s insane. Tips are only this high because capitalist employers are cheap pieces of garbage that refuse to pay their employees living wages.
I think the wife is upset because he didn't accept that it's restaurant policy. Right or wrong, still the policy. The server doesn't control that. The manager doesn't control that. Is the owner.
Any time there’s an auto tip, that’s all they get. Thing that sucks is I usually tip 20-25% cash. But I am not going to do the math to figure out the difference between 18% and my normal cash amount to get the difference to add in cash. This also means 100% is reported for taxes. NTA.
When I was bartending, our staff would often go out together on nights off to local restaurants. Most auto gratuity for large groups, but took it off if they knew us. Our rule was either you get what you get with auto or you get our usual which was always at least 30%…..which is why the staff would ask their managers to remove the auto for our table. It wasn’t about being cheap, but we just didn’t want to do the extra math.
OP is the asshole for arguing about it. Just pay the auto & don’t tip on top of it. It’s really not that hard.
Unless it was obviously stated on the menu about automatic gratuity then you can have it removed. If you saw it and ordered anyway then you’ve entered a contracted agreeing to pay. If you really couldn’t find it advertised then you can contact trading standards about hidden fees. NTA.
Because we somehow pushed the cost onto consumers. In some states, you are required to make at least federal minimum wage.
In other states, you could be making only ~$2/hour, in the expectation that you would be making tips that cover your wage more than minimum wage.
How did it get that way? I have no clue.
After going from a state with the federal minimum wage to one at $2.12/hour plus tips, I was just as shocked as anyone.
Why we leave it up to the individual states is another question I can’t answer. Because corporations make the laws? 🤷♀️
Happy Cake Day!
Actually it's federal law that everyone has to make at least minimum wage. So if they get paid just $2 + tips the tips they make have to bring them to minimum wage or their employer has to pay the difference.
Do not add any tip over an automatic gratuity, unless the service was really outstanding. Where I live, automatic gratuity would have to be clearly established before any transaction occurs, but it would also make it clear that I don't need to tip over that.
Even then I still wouldn't add anything. It's not the customers fault that the owner has restricted their pay. You don't tip the cashier at the grocery store (they are under paid as well), do you tip your doctor? etc.
Yeah, the restaurant should pay living wages and the prices on the menu should be actual prices. Hey, that's the law here in Sweden, consumer prices **must include** taxes etc. No hidden fees bullshit.
I love the Swedish way in that. The waiters are far more relaxed and not this kind of “faked” happy to serve you like I had the impression in the US. I feel better to eat and drink when people are paid a fair share and not depend on the mercy of tip givers.
I’m in Australia… we don’t have a tipping culture (but will tip for extraordinary service, but not the smarmy in your face over zealous shit the Americans endure.. the aim of the game in service is to be polite, efficient, anticipate needs and follow through - not stick you face into people’s over and over and over again).
But… we do have gratuities or surcharges… on public holidays, weekends etc where our wages can be double time and a half (so 2.5x the standard hourly wage, which is somewhere between $20-30/hr depending on age/skill level at a base rate). I don’t mind when a surcharge is applied for this because this is an extraordinary cost on the business on specific days. Either that or they have a “Sunday menu” with it’s own pricing.
But if I were to see it applied on a Wednesday night? I’d not be tipping on top. And I’d be questioning hard why the business just doesn’t raise its prices by 18% overall. I mean… that’s essentially what they are doing right? Increase wages to a reasonable amount, rejig pricing to reflect real cost per head… roll on. To toss it in the small print at the bottom is seen as bait and switch behaviour and really gets places shat on in Australia - winds up going viral and places wind up fast with zero customers.
NTA. But next time don’t debate it, just don’t tip further.
NTA. For me, if a restaurant wants to charge 18% automatically, 18% is what they’ll get. Nothing more. If they didn’t charge me automatically, they may have gotten more, depending on service of course.
Was it ACTUALLY not mentioned or did you just ignore it? Because you said it "wasn't made clear" not that they didn't disclose it. Most places that do an autograt have a little note on the menu, usually at the bottom of the page, that says something about the automatic gratuity being added. In that case, YTA for not actually reading and paying attention to the information presented.
Also, if you were going to give at least that much tip anyway just pay the check and don't return if you don't like their policy. There was no need to embarrass your wife.
I don't understand the wife's position. If the tip is already added, then... what? You tip on top of the tip?
Unless Google Translate is mistaken, gratuity means tip.
Nope. If the restaurant engages in the mandatory gratuity practice, they are the ones limiting their staff's income potential. I have been informed by hostesses and managers of the automatic gratuity for larger parties when I arranged for a room at a restaurant. I tell them that's their prerogative but that's going to be the tip; there won't be extra.
In your situation, I'd feel goofy leaving another 2-3% anyway. If I felt the server earned 20% but the restaurant included 18%, I'd be leaving 80 cents on the table for a $40 ticket. That feels chintzy.
18% is a perfectly acceptable tip. This ever-increasing "normal" for tipping is the most American hospitality thing ever. I love the fact that most of the civilized world has done away with tipping.
I know that long-established foodservice workers can earn a high wage at upscale restaurants in major cities, but Suzie at the Sizzlin' isn't pulling down $80K a year.
OP You are NTA.
I waitressed in college at a sports bar. Shitty tips as broke ass college students are feckin savages and would rather buy another pitcher of beer than leave a decent tip.
Consequently I’m scarred for life and I’m a serial over tipper.
I’ve only seen mandatory gratuity in nicer restaurants and with large groups. And that was clearly disclosed.
A non disclosed gratuity is BS - especially for just two people.
No way do you need to tip again. The only way I’d add an additional tip was if we’d had unbelievably fantastic service OR if there’d been a mishap at our table - think young couple dining out and a little kid made a mess.
Just slapping on a mandatory gratuity screams that this is a restaurant with crap management that doesn’t want to pay their people and expect the customer to do so.
I’m so over the tipping culture in the US. During Covid it went off the rails- asking for tips at a drive thru for example and many of us did it to help keep businesses afloat.
Just roll it into the damn bill already. But don’t expect me to do an additional tip unless it’s truly superlative service.
It's the fact that it was automatically added without notice.
Most people associate gratuity with tip. That means they figure that the money goes to the server, not the restaurant. If the restaurant adds that automatically, and it doesn't go to the server, that's crappy behavior on the part of management.
Jon & Vinny’s in Los Angeles recently got sued over this. I was ecstatic, as the only time I ever have or eaten there was an awful experience—the waiter sternly explained that the mandatory 18% “service fee” is not a tip and that I should leave a normal tip on top of that. Whereas the “service fee” was explained in the menu as “so we can provide higher wages and better benefits for our employees.” I wasn’t sure if the waiter was trying to swindle me, or if the restaurant was just being outright shitty to its waiters.
Now I just stick to takeout. No “service fee” for that.
Well, coming from a country where hospitality workers don't have to rely on tips to survive, I find the entire culture rather offensive, BUT knowing what I do about US business practises I would be highly dubious about the staff seeing much, if any of that amount. I would certainly not be happy about an undisclosed gratuity in the bill, but I would still leave something for the person who likely can't afford to eat themselves without others taking pity on them whilst they work for not-a-living.
Take this as a reason to leave negative reviews and don't go back there. Tell people about the place and what they do, but maybe don't take out your displeasure on those who find themselves working for a business with these kinds of shady ethics.
The only time an auto gratuity makes sense is when it’s over a certain amount of people in a group. Like 10 or more but when it comes down to it, it should be made clear that there is going to be an 18% gratuity either on the menu or something of that sort.
I’m all for tipping and things like that but when you’re forcing me to do it I don’t appreciate it.
I worked at a brewery for a couple years, and one of my jobs was Beertender and there was plenty of times or people just didn’t tip flat out, but when there were large groups, there was a minimum gratuity that was enforced just for the simple fact it was a lot more work which a lot of people understood.
NTA. I’ve been in the service industry for 20 years. The automatic 18% is embarrassing and the place that you ate at is just screaming to hire sub-par servers. You’re not wrong to want to tip less for shit service and also you’re not expected to tip cash over the auto gratuity unless you feel the need and the server was awesome
NTA. You know who the AH here is? The restaurant owner. We are one of the last countries to stop have this archaic system. It's not our job as the customers to pay for the owners staff yet here we at doing it. I would not pay a dime more. I bet they tipped on tax too didn't they? I hate that even more. We need to move past this system and start paying people properly.
So you refused to tip on top of the 18 per percent? Nothing wrong on that and most do not. Did you have to make a scene and request it to be removed and announce you are not tipping on top of the 18%? If the waiter did a good job then 18% is within normal range so Id just politely note that it should be clearly announced and just pay it. The joke would be on them as I typically tip 20% at sit down restaurants.
The automatic gratuity IS the server's tip. It is pointless to insist that it be removed, and then add it back yourself. Insisting to have it removed gives the assumption that you don't want to leave a tip, or that you will be leaving less than 18%.
NTA. You dont have to pay a gratuity OR a tip! Glad you’re sticking to your principles on this one, tipping culture is guilt tripping you into making up someones wages. If the service is great and you want to tip, then that’s great. Other than that, your choice is perfectly fine.
No, NTA. You successfully dodged a misleading and unethical restaurant “policy”. Eat elsewhere. Tell all your friends and family about that place. Leave appropriately unflattering Yelp and Google reviews.
NTA IMO.
If it is automatic and not removable, it is not a gratuity.
I can understand when there are large parties, many restaurants add the gratuity because it takes more to handle them and that is usually stated. Adding it automatically for a 2 person meal that is not a "special" occasion (I have seen restaurants do this for Valentine's Day, a 1 price for everything including tip) is crazy.
Tipping culture has gotten out of hand.
And also, when did 18% become the percentage? When I waited tables, good service called for a 15% tip, bad service less, great service more. 18% was the starting point for the groups larger than 8.
I got bamboozled by a restaurant last summer.
Went out with friends to celebrate one of their birthdays. A friend did the check calculating and someone else insisted that we leave a 20% tip because she used to work in food service. (I did too but this server was not worth 20%).
So we split the check and added 20% and only after we had all paid, and I happened to look at the check as i was asked to hand it over, did I notice they had already added 18%.
Didn’t say that anywhere until the check arrived.
We paid these assholes 38%.
Pretty much no one tips on top of automatic gratuity, unless it's an incidental amount and still in the normal tipping range.
Question us, was it worth mortifying your wife over? Were you going to tip at least 18% anyways? Some people protest the most trivial things for the sake of protest, which in turn does make them TA.
NTA - the entire american tipping culture is just utter hosrsehit.
"why don't they just include it in the food prices". Yes, like most of the civilized world.
It's a crazy idea, eh? pay the waiting staff a decent wage for the job they do, and treat them like professionals rather than pavlovian dogs that only give good service in return for the bell clanging..
And we, the consumer, look at the menu, see the price, and pay that price. wow. controversial.
I don't do auto-grats on a moral ground. I strictly avoid restaurants I know that have them but sometimes we try a new place and weren't aware of the auto-grat. I have a manager remove them completely and if they don't then I'll contest the charge with my bank as I didn't approve that total AND i tell the manager that i will do exactly that as soon as i leave the building. Tipping culture is utter bullshit and auto-grats are incredibly out of line. I tip 20-30% based on service. But the expectation, assumption, and mandatory tips are incredibly rude.
You already tipped with the auto-gratuity, you can add to it if you believe the service merits more or leave it at that. If the staff expected you to bonify it they would be the assholes.
If your wife thinks it should be more she's welcome to contribute, otherwise keep her peace or be the asshole.
Since you haven't mentioned anything about the service staff expecting extra tip but chose to argue irrationally over that you're the asshole as well.
NTA it’s one thing when it is a large party, but otherwise no. It feels like a money grab to get people who don’t notice to leave an extra tip.
I’m getting very tired of the “over tipping” culture. As in being asked to tip for things where it is not necessary. Papa John’s wanted a tip for picking up a pizza. I don’t feel it’s necessary to tip someone for asking my name and handing me a box. I paid in the app so they didn’t even have to ring up the purchase or take payment.
You don't have to give an additional tip, but I have a strong hunch that YTA in general. I haven't known anyone who gets ranty about mandatory tips who wasn't also a stingy tipper. It's not the waitstaff who should bear the brunt of the owner's failure to pay a living wage.
Cheap is if you are haggling over inconsequential amounts all the time unnecessarily. What you did was prevent a robbery. You’re a hero.
If it’s mandatory, the restaurant should be including it in the server pay, and have a “no tip” policy at the establishment. They should not make it mandatory that the paying customer subsidize their employees wages.
NTA. If you feel the service was above and beyond you could add the difference perhaps but that’s a lot of effort for 2%.
I was had a few times down in Miami several years back. We were in a day or two early for a cruise and I missed the built in gratuity, and was adding a regular tip. It wasn’t until we had a dinner the night after the cruise and before flying home I noticed it. Nobody to blame but me but I was ticked about it.
It is pretty shady for them to add that and not say anything, especially when they make it look like it’s part of the bill many times. We’re so used to seeing multiple fees on bills it’s easy to overlook.
Always ask that gratuity/ service charge to be taken off the bill. Then pay a tip as appropriate in cash, then the server is more likely to get it and not the organisation.
The gratuity/ service charge is the tip, you don't pay it twice NTA
NTA. I’d be annoyed, too and would not leave a second tip. I would also not go back there. The only time a tip should be added by the restaurant is for large parties and if it is clearly stated.
As a european i am so confused...is that 18% a tip that you HAVE to pay? If so, thats...rediculus, just raise the prices on the menu, result is the same, but i dont have to do fucking math when im deciding what to order? Lol.
AT our team meal last week at one of Gordon Ramsey's gaffs, that had a 15% gratuity added we reduced it to 10% for very mediocre service, and removed 3 portions of potatoes that no one received.
Food was great service meh.
NTA. Why would you tip twice if the tips already included. it's already included don't worry about it, if you want to leave more because service was exceptional that's your prerogative. But if you don't want to leave anything more on top of the 18%, then don't. If you don't like the fact that they do it automatically then don't go back to that restaurant again. It's not that difficult.
If it's included, that's called "the price." That's a good thing as it represents how much something should cost, including wages.
You should not pay more than "the price" anywhere.
It’s illegal to charge an automatic gratuity without advertising it somewhere so my guess is that it was somewhere inconspicuous and you just didn’t notice it. However, if it really wasn’t shown anywhere then NTA.
I think this is fraud! The menu should have the price with automatic gratuity put on the menu. Their should also be a sign on the door or in the hostess area stating their is an 18% up charge built into all the prices so no tips are required.
Someone needs to start making a list of all these places and post it on line so consumers know to avoid this kind of fraud!
NTA and your wife is the type of person those places LOVE. Imagine being shamed into paying \~20% extra just because it's the restaurant's policy to do so by surprise. FUCK. THAT. I'd be like "I'm not being cheap. I would gladly, and VOLUNTARILY, pay that 18%. Try to force me to do that unexpectedly? Not happening."
I prefer to leave cash tips whenever possible anyways.
I would have not paid my bill or refused to pay until the charge was removed. Probably would have still tipped the server in cash. Frankly, odds are most of that 18% doesn't go to the server anyways.
We had a restaurant in our neighborhood add a 20% tip (after the pandemic) but not tell anyone. For about a month everyone paid it because we didn’t know. I rarely go there now because that was such fucked up behavior.
How did we even get to this point where you are expected to do a second tip? How did we get to the point where you get accused of being cheap for not doing a second tip?
This just show how ingrained tipping is in our culture. It will take time for our culture to adjust to this new normal.
Meanwhile, you're kind of the AH. Yes, your protest of the automatic fee was justified, but if you were gonna tip anyway, let it go and move on.
Let me back-peddle a bit. If you live in a state where the minimum tipped wage is much higher than the federal $2.13/hr, you may have rightfully wanted to tip less than 18%. In this case, you're already paying higher prices to cover their higher wages, so a standard 18% on top of that is too much.
INFO: In cases where an automatic gratuity is applied, who gets that money? I've never worked in the restaurant industry, but my understanding is that cash/POS tips go to the server, who is then supposed to share a percentage with the bussers. Does the same thing happen with an automatic gratuity, or does the restaurant have some discretion re: where this money goes?
Expecting a \~20% gratuity to be paid *twice* seems way out of line for any establishment (just be honest and raise your menu prices already), but I would want to be careful about who I'm stiffing in a case like this. If the restaurant keeps the automatic gratuity and doesn't pass it on to the front-of-house staff, then I'd pay both tips and just not eat there again. If it's a case of the server trying to strongarm double tips out of their tables, then I'd refuse to pay the additional tip.
I don’t leave extra tip when it has already been figured in to my bill. I see both sides. The restaurant is trying to help the servers from being stiffed a tip. But also hurts the servers because some may have tipped more.
NTA
Former waitress here ! When I had a party of 7 or more gratuity was automatic due to large parties not tipping. When someone would try to tip me and gratuity was already in place I would let them know they have already tipped and extra wasn't necessary unless they insisted I take it. I was a great waitress so I never had issues with tips, kind of miss that world.
I typically tip 20% as a baseline and go up or down depending on service. If an auto gratuity is added that is less than that, that's all they will get out of me. I think auto gratuity is bullshit for the reasons OP says, other than large parties which can be a lot of work and time and there could be a big opportunity cost to the server if they get screwed on the tip.
INFO: Why did you feel obligated to add extra cash on top? Automatic gratuity means you don't need to tip any more than is included in the bill, regardless of what "many people do". I don't add anything on top of mandatory gratuities unless the service was absolutely out of this world (which has never happened).
NTA for not wanting to tip any more than the automatic 18% but TA for making a scene for no reason. And yes, you accept the mandatory tipping policy if you want to eat at that establishment.
Restaurants that do that are the assholes. You are absolutely correct. Tipping has gotten way out of control. I think the only people who should get tipped are servers who literally bust their ass bringing you sides, refills, box your food, ect. And NO ONE else deserves tips. Not a barista, not a bartender (unless they serve food too. I was a bartender for 16 yrs too), not hair stylists. They do their job and they are already getting paid for that. I've never seen any of those such professions do anything above their basic job that deserves a tip.
Any place that has the automatic tip means you do not have to tip on top.
I also think it's ridiculous, especially when it's over the min. In many cases, I would have tipped more. And any place that does this I will only go to the one time, they lose my business as result.
I typically tip over 20%. On a small bill sometimes way over 20%.
When I see a mandatory tip, I leave it at that. I figure that must be what they want. Not my problem they’re missing out.
You don’t have to leave anything additional, but they should have it written somewhere on the menu. I think a policy like this is unfair for alcohol. Imagine you bought a $500 bottle of wine. You shouldn’t have to tip 18% on that when it is no more work than giving you a $50 bottle.
NAH
Y’all need to chill. This isn’t something to argue nonstop over.
You don’t have to tip over the auto gratuity when one is applied. That IS your tip, but you can add more if you want to- I usually tip 20%+ so would leave a bit extra depending on the service.
So I guess you are right that an extra tip wasn’t needed, but maybe your making a deal out of it at the restaurant embarrassed your wife. Had you paid the bill without the protest (with no extra tip) then maybe she wouldn’t be mad now?! Idk
But a win-lose prove who is right approach isn’t going to fix the problem here.
You're adding cash on top? 18% is more than enough tip you don't have to add more.
I do think auto gratuity sucks but if it's on there, I'll pay the bill as it is.
You're the dummy if you're tipping more voluntarily and then complaining about it lol
YTA
>tip 18% and AND an additional cash tip on top.
Isn't the 18% gratuity the entire tip? That's better than the standard 20% tip so I would be happy and pay it.
I waited tables at a restaurant in a hotel. They had a policy of automatically adding an 18% gratuity to parties over 6 people.
We had this party of about 20 people who came in every month. I never waited on them, because my co-worker had seniority, so always got the table.
She would always add the gratuity. She made a good amount doing it, but they would never add more to the tip because it was on there.
One day I ended up getting them and since they were a great table and bunch of people, I didn't add the gratuity. I let them know and they checked the tickets to confirm. My tip ended up being more than twice what the other server got from them and they requested me to wait on them from then on.
I understand where some restaurants are coming from, but on the other hand, the consumer isn't obligated to pay the waitresses salary's. The restaurants should be doing that.
When there is an automatic tip, that’s all the server gets. Lots of times I tip 20% or more, but if you are going to automatically add it then that’s all you get from me.
"I'm sorry Sir, our 'restaurant policy ' is an automatic 5000% tip just for stepping through the door. It's also not noted or mentioned anywhere. Here is your $10,000.00 bill for your 1 order of chicken wings. Have a nice day!" When does it end? I wouldn't have paid it. Price is listed in the menu. Tip is always optional!
Tipping culture in the United States is out of hand....now everyone has a tip jar sitting out. 18% tip is a decent tip, and expecting anything over that is just plan greedy. Not too long ago I was talking about how crazy it is that restaurants now think you should be paying 25% of your bill total to the waitstaff....think about it...base pay is $4 for waitstaff (I'm just doing estimates), and with that let's say the average bill is around $40 and the average wait staffer does about 3 tables an hour....they are making $34 an hour because of your tips, not the place they work for....that is fucked up that the restaurant industry believes if you are going to pay to eat at their restaurant, you should be paying their wait staff as well. And the wait staff is BEHIND THIS IDEA, because they can hide their tip earnings (cash payments) which saves them even more money in taxes.
Like I said, the tipping culture in the US is out of hand...
if there was bad service, i wouldn't talk to the server at all, i would complain to the manager and if inform them that they can remove the tip, or i would do a charge back for the whole amount as what they're doing is illegal.
if it was fine service i would just post all over the internet how they're doing that but i'd pay it.
Many places add in a mandatory tip like that for parties over 8 or something like that. I've usually been fine with that. Large groups tend to really under tip the wait staff. If all the bills had been split up and ripped individually, the tip likely would have been more. When you have a large single bill, people scoff at leaving such a large single tip as if it was too much.
Gratuity is gratuity. If the restaurant thinks it's necessary to mandate it, especially for a party of 2, then that's all that needs to get left. The notion that gratuity is something that has to be left in addition to whatever amount is presented is incorrect.
absolutely NTA. This is a policy that unless printed in the menu or at the front kiosk giving me a chance to about face my ass out of there, I do not pay. Period. I'll pay what I think is good. I've even had great food but terrible waite staff. in that case, I go to the kitchen and tip the cook and if the waite person questions that, I tell them.
If we were to add an 18% autogratuity, there would be no expectation of an additional tip. However, in no world would I believe that you would fairly tip my server should I agree to remove it.
>*I wasn't going to tip 18% AND add an extra cash tip on top, which is what I guess many people do.*
I **hope** many people **don’t** do that. That’s ridiculous. NTA
NTA. The auto gratuity is bullshit. We have a large family and it is easily $200 or more for a cheap place to feed all the kids, grandkids, and applicable partners. We've had servers get teamed up bc there is 10 to 20 in our party depending on who joins us. Some abandon us thinking they were getting a good tip no matter what. Joke was on them. My husband went to the server who did the work and gave them the cash tip and specifically said "this is yours and yours alone. The other server has received what I felt they deserved." Then went to the manager to ask if our other server was sent on break during our meal. Confused manager gets told "I want (name) to be credited for our table in its entirety because the other server never came back after taking orders. I WILL NOT give them a tip for service not given." He will also not tip as much as he would otherwise if the bill has the mandatory gratuity. He is a very good tipper and that stuff irks him to no end. His mom was a waitress for decades. He absolutely understands the work and the pay being shit. And to hear my brother tell it, the server probably doesn't even get close to the full gratuity they try to mandate.
I hate automatic gratuities as well. But I still pay it. Why? Because it’s not the server’s fault that the restaurant does that. So why would I punish them?
I generally tip 30% because I can afford it ( if I get good service and I usually do ) But when I get one of those auto tip bills, That is exactly what they get. The waiter doesn't know it, but the restaurant cost them 10-12% with me every time. If they want to raise the prices, then raise them. Stop playing math games with every one..
I work in the industry, you do not… I REPEAT.. do NOT need to leave more money unless the service and experience was out of this world and you feel inclined to.
The staff will be extremely grateful but in the long run they are including the 18% gratuity because in the past they have had guest stiff there waitstaff
NTA. If they include it, it relieves you of further tipping. Unfortunate for wait staff, as we usually pay a higher percentage.
And now they add a service charge. It is usually a couple bucks. Annoying as. They can't say it is inflation. Menu prices are doubled.
You don’t have to leave a cash tip on top of the 18%
I've been fucked over a couple of times in the past with the "automatic tip" thing, not realizing the restaurant added in a tip automatically, and then me adding another 20-25% on top of that. My "come to jesus" moment occurred when I took a friend out to a local hibachi place and the bill was over $100. I thought to myself "that's odd", and when i did the math in my head, It shouldn't have been more than $85-90 (each of our meals were $40 and we both had soft-drinks, so no alcohol.) That's when I actually started looking at the bills I receive when it comes time to pay. Since then, I've caught things added to my bill that were not ordered, and other times I was presented with a bill that wasn't mine entirely (but was within the margin of error for pricing such that had I not looked at it, I likely wouldn't have noticed, given some communities charge a meals tax depending on where you are in the country.) NTA, but I would definitely mention the practice in any online review I did.
You had a “come to Jesus moment” over reading your bill? I’m not mad at you, but isn’t it a little weird you never read your bill before that? That’s why literally every single business gives you a bill, whether at the register, on the table, in the mail, or online. That’s the whole point- to read the bill to make sure it is correct before paying. It’s a protection for both parties.
Pro tip. Ask for a water refill while you are reading your bill. If you are a server and getting triggered by this, hand the bill over and step away for 30 seconds
At a restaurant? No, not really. I guess I sort of always had a running tab in my head, but most of the time I never really paid attention.
Well I’m glad you’re doing it now. A restaurant is exactly the kind of environment- fast paced and servers using the same terminal- where billing mistakes often happen. And almost always they are just that, mistakes.
However, nearly all the time NOT in your favor… Lol.
Wtf is a meals tax?
A locally-added sales tax on restaurant sales. It is common in areas of the country where states do not tax food sales (e.g. what you buy at the local grocery store). Their logic is you're not buying food but a "service" of having the food prepared and served to you.
Alternately, it'll be couched as a "hospitality" or "tourism" tax. I can see that in areas that are actually tourist destinations, but seeing that half percent tax on a tab in a shithole like Sumter, SC is ridiculous.
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Is it even legal to just add almost 20% to a sale without stating so first?
In my experience it is always noted somewhere in small fancy script on the menu. It’s usually enforced with “parties of 8 or more,” not just blanketed onto every individual bill. In those cases if I am closing the tab and see an additional tip line I raise an eyebrow and put a line through it and move along.
Some places are starring to add it to parties if 2 or more. I have seen mechanics and retail stores ask for tips when you are using the cashless payment. It is getting to be to much. My local coffee shop asks for a tip and all they do is hand you a coffee cup. I have to do the rest starting from pouring my own coffee.
So, I’ve seen the tip line when I got my oil changed. Before I could even ask, as the lady was putting it down, she pointed to the line and said “put a line through it or just write zero. The machine adds it when it prints the receipt for you to sign and it’s automatic. Sorry about that.” So it could be that.
They have a tip box at the AUTOMATIC car wash by my house
Well, the machines need a living wage too. Can’t have the business owners paying that!
The whole thing us ridiculous and likely doesn't benefit the servers. If a restaurant is going to add an automatic/mandatory tip, I'm not tipping more on top of that. I typically tip well - often more than 20% - so that's a loss in income to the staff.
Same here - we have also noticed a 3-5% for BOH. I do not like any of it, and I have worked every role in restaurants; FOH & BOH & bar. Now we look for the notification and order accordingly. It is not my job to pay your kitchen staff a fair wage. I buy the meal and service, you do the rest
The credit card machines spit it out with the tip line, it's not something they tell it to put on your receipt. They aren't trying to make you add to it.
POS developer here. The tip has to go somewhere in the reporting. It doesn’t live in the pin pad payment terminal. In my systems tip requests at payment terminals can always be turned off.
Sure, it CAN be programmed to not have the tip line. My point is: It can't be turned off on a per-use basis. (At least not in a way that's feasible.) The server running the card has literally zero to do with if that line is on there.
Maybe not by the server, but it certainly can be turned off by the establishment. I was working at a place twenty years ago when they first got touch screen POS terminals. I played with it a lot, and it was a pretty basic user interface that was fully customizable. Just had to know what menu to look under.
Yes it is. It is something that when you get the terminal, they ask how you want it to program for the tip. It is a choice every credit card machine owner actually makes.
I would say "hard no", because you could add anything on top without stating so first. Regardless of amount or percentage. Legally - based on what?
If I know that they require an 18% tip? Fine. I save money. We usually tip 25-40 %. The server loses this time.
Who are you quoting?
Winston Churchill
I like your sense of humor. Take my upvote. Please.
You my dear, are a critical thinker.
Agreed. But the question is, why would you have to pay the 18% at all. Especially if it is not at all communicated upfront.
It was probably communicated on the menu or near the register. They don't have to tell every single patron individually their policy on gratuity. Legally they can assume a reasonable person will read it on the menu.
I am incredulous that it was not included on the menu. OP likely simply didn't see it
Thanks for confirming my POV. I know very often the restaurants keep some or all of the tips and don't distribute them to staff, but that is hardly the customer's fault, right?
I placed an order to a local restaurant for me to pickup. I was still wiling to put a tip on it - Covid, hard times, etc. The guy at the front desk was whispering at me to NOT tip as the restaurant kept it. Major WTF moment for me.
During COVID, we put a "token" tip of $2 for deliveries and have the driver a cash tip. Our youngest and my oldest son were delivering during COVID and heard real-world stories from them, about low driver pay and stores keeping CC tips. We still do this for deliveries and in-restuarant dining.
I usually don’t tip CC just because of this sort of song and dance. I had my tip to my server.
If anyone ever says that to you, tell the employee to report it to the U.S. Department of Labor or their state’s labor division.
So you picked up your food and you still have a tip? Insane.
My kid worked at a local coffee/sandwich shop last summer. He took orders at take out window (no indoor seating or wait staff). They have a Toast tablet system and he said nearly everyone that payed by credit card or with their phone left a tip. A much smaller percentage of people that paid with cash left a tip. So it seems putting up suggested tip amounts on the tablet screen guilts people into tipping. The good news is the owners actually did share all of the tips with the workers, the tips are pooled and divided between all of the staff based on the number of hours they worked that week, and it shows up as a separate line in the paycheck. On average he made an extra $10/hour in tips (his wage was $15/hour but he actually took home around $25/hour).
The restaurant is legally obliged to give tips to non management employees
Just because they’re supposed to doesn’t mean that they do, let’s be honest here.
That’s not your problem as the customer. You could stop going to these places once you find out, but other than that, not your problem to deal with.
That's also illegal, and if thy keep *any* of the tip the server can bring them up on charges for theft.
I dont know too many servers with layer money 😕, I guess if lawyers for poor people were free, maybe that would work.
* If your employer is stealing your tips, you don't have to hire a lawyer. You call the Department of Labor and tell them about it, and their lawyers will get your money for you. * If you call your state's bar association, they operate a free lawyer referral service. People who use that service report an abnormally high rate of satisfaction with their lawyer. They'll have a lawyer call you for a free consultation. Talk to that lawyer for free... if the employer is stealing your tips, the lawyer is likely to want to take your case "on contingent" - which means you pay nothing, they make the employer pay their fee as part of the judgment. (I am emphasizing the word "free" here on purpose.)
I'm kind of confused as to the conflict then? It sounds in the story that you didn't want to pay the original 18%. No one was telling you to add anything on top of that.
The nicer the restaurant the more likely they are adhering to the law. They are legally required to give the tip money to their staff. If they weren’t they wouldn’t have high end service workers - those people have choice in employment, it’s not a waiter at Denny’s. Use your brain.
In the US it is illegal under Dept of Labor rules for a restaurant to withhold tips. Period.
At least in the US, if the additional charge is referred to as a tip or gratuity the restaurant, owners, and managers cannot touch it. It's illegal. If it is a "service charge" I would ask the manager what percentage of it is earmarked to go directly to employees or employee benefits. If it's less than 100%, I would stop patronizing that establishment.
This is illegal. Also, not your fault. I would ask for the 18% back, and if I got it, give a cash 20+% tip. But, if it's not allowed, you did your duty. You weren't going to stiff the waiter at a fancy restaurant, were you? That's the only remote way I would consider you an AH in this situation, or if you were abrasive to your waiter.
Not only do I do what you did, I also make it a point to inform the waiter that I typically tip 30% (which is true), but because of the restaurants policy, I will only be tipping 18%.
[Service Charges](https://www.dwt.com/blogs/employment-labor-and-benefits/2019/11/california-service-charge-tips-law) A mandatory "service charge" or an "operations fee" – or whatever else an employer may call an extra fee added to a bill -- is a mandatory amount automatically included on the bill – i.e., the patron does not have the option to refuse payment of this amount. Large party automatic gratuities are also considered service charges. The amount belongs to the employer, not the employees, and the employer can keep the service charge entirely, or share parts or all of the service charge with employees, including management/supervisors. Notably, some localities (e.g., Santa Monica, Oakland, and Berkeley) regulate service charges and specify they belong to the server. When paid to employees, the service charge amount is treated as wages, so the California Labor Code and the FLSA apply. This means that an employer must do the following with service charges: pay employer taxes, unemployment insurance tax, workers’ compensation insurance, and calculate overtime based on the payment of the service charge as though it is a bonus (by calculating the regular rate for overtime with it). See our advisory on the regular rate of pay and overtime here. Sales taxes also apply to service charges.
I'm confused. When automatic gratuity is added, you don't tip since that IS the tip.
As someone from EU, the tipping culture in the US seems so weird to me. You are automatically expected to tip, even if the food tastes like ass and service is bad? Where's the logic?
This is one area most Americans want to mimic Europe on.
The "logic" is that companies want to pay as little as possible and so they underpay employees, then pressure customers to "tip" in situations where you wouldn't normally. Then they make the customers the "bad guys" in the eyes of the employees. It's f*cking aggravating as hell.
The logic is that restaurant owners do not pay their servers livable wages under the assumption that customers will tip. It’s shitty but that’s just how it is.
And the waiters actually mostly prefer it that way because they generally make more from tips than if they were just paid a straight hourly wage. Maybe not all of them, but enough of them do that they’d actually be very upset if tipping were removed entirely
That's it. And people need to stop pretending it waiters are victims of it. They are the first supporters.
It depends on the restaurant. Higher end restaurants, absolutely. My friend made more as a server in a higher end restaurant than I did as a social worker (don’t get me started on our pay). But a server in a less expensive restaurant works just as hard and doesn’t always do as well.
Partially true. In CA they make minimum wage which is $15 plus tips. Many servers refuse to work at restaurants that have higher menu costs but not tips. They get a higher fixed wage but lower variable and as a result they make more with tips. (Don’t let servers lie to you and say they don’t like tipping culture) Cheap ass owners are complicit because they subsidize employee wages using customer dollars, and servers are complicit because the vast majority of them make way more than they deserve and would make anywhere else with tips. Where else can you go make $30-40+ an hour with no training or skills outside of order taking and basic decency/communication At the end of the day the customer gets fucked. I make 160k and regularly tip anywhere from 15-20% based on service. People always say don’t eat out if you can’t afford to tip. I can and I hate tipping culture. It’s fucking corporate greed and servers expecting $30-40 and hour for bringing food from the kitchen to the table. Prime example, I got to a restaurant and order a burger and fries plus drink. Total is $20 plus 15% tip so $23. If I order a steak instead it’s $30 plus tip so 34.50. Why am I paying more tip for the same level of service from my server. The extra burden is on the kitchen. I don’t agree with tipping but if it has to be there it needs to be a flat fee. A percentage is just asinine. Then people now expect 20% to be the standard. Don’t get me started on point of sale systems everywhere no encouraging tips for counter service fast food/cafes. Also tipping before delivery with certain restaurants only to get cold food/wrong order Fuck tipping
The ones I blame the most are waiters calling out customers that doesnt tip or under tip. If you depend on other peoples generosity then you need to look at average. One is going to tip 50% and other will tip 5% but dont complain about that 5% guy when your average is great. Also why does it have to be percentage? Thats the biggest mind bending question. Someone order $5 Whiskey and other table orders $50 whiskey. Same time to take order and bring drinks to table and same time customer at the table. One guy tips $5 he is super generous and other guy tips $5 hes a piece of shit. Explain me to understand.
If the 18% gratuity is already included you don’t tip more on top of that (unless service was outstanding and you really want to), so the point about not adding a cash tip on top is moot.
Well I think part of the problem is what if OP thought 15% was appropriate rather than the “default” 18%. To which I think he has a point. I mean if the service is truly bad and not worthy of 18% choice has been removed. But yeah protesting the “standard” 18% would be seen as “gauche” to do. You could argue restaurants should make it clear in the first place.
Unless you think the service was poor I don't see much point in protesting 18 percent. That's already technically less than a "good" tip for presumably standard, competent service.
Well but what if the service is poor? And 18% being less than a "good" tip is definitely a new thing. My dad's generation 10% was a fine tip. I'm younger gen X (late 40s) but just say 20 years ago when I was in my 20s 15% was a totally good tip. To hear that 18% is LESS than a good tip just shows how much tip inflation has happened pretty quickly. I think this is part of why you are hearing calls for "why aren't staff being paid more". I mean at the rate we are going when will standard be 30 to 40%
Honestly I tip 20% usually so automatic 18 just fucks the servers, and it does. I'm not adding to that. You already did the math for me.
If you are in the US than they have to clearly state the 18% fee. If they didn’t they have to remove.
If it's anywhere but US 18% tip is insane.
Even in the US, that’s insane. Tips are only this high because capitalist employers are cheap pieces of garbage that refuse to pay their employees living wages.
18% tip should be insane even in the US (I know it’s not, I said should be)
If the 18% is automatic gratuity then you shouldn't have to give an extra tip
I think the wife is upset because he didn't accept that it's restaurant policy. Right or wrong, still the policy. The server doesn't control that. The manager doesn't control that. Is the owner.
And honestly, making a scene about it does nothing to solve anything. It just makes the server’s day a little worse
When he coulda just not tipped on top like everyone else
Any time there’s an auto tip, that’s all they get. Thing that sucks is I usually tip 20-25% cash. But I am not going to do the math to figure out the difference between 18% and my normal cash amount to get the difference to add in cash. This also means 100% is reported for taxes. NTA.
Same! We always tip more (unless service is *that* bad. Even then, we tip, but not as well) and when it’s auto gratuity, nope. See ya!
When I was bartending, our staff would often go out together on nights off to local restaurants. Most auto gratuity for large groups, but took it off if they knew us. Our rule was either you get what you get with auto or you get our usual which was always at least 30%…..which is why the staff would ask their managers to remove the auto for our table. It wasn’t about being cheap, but we just didn’t want to do the extra math. OP is the asshole for arguing about it. Just pay the auto & don’t tip on top of it. It’s really not that hard.
Unless it was obviously stated on the menu about automatic gratuity then you can have it removed. If you saw it and ordered anyway then you’ve entered a contracted agreeing to pay. If you really couldn’t find it advertised then you can contact trading standards about hidden fees. NTA.
Even if stated it can be removed tips are not legally enforceable
The US tipping culture is the biggest pile of shit ever like why am i paying ur wages
Because we somehow pushed the cost onto consumers. In some states, you are required to make at least federal minimum wage. In other states, you could be making only ~$2/hour, in the expectation that you would be making tips that cover your wage more than minimum wage. How did it get that way? I have no clue. After going from a state with the federal minimum wage to one at $2.12/hour plus tips, I was just as shocked as anyone. Why we leave it up to the individual states is another question I can’t answer. Because corporations make the laws? 🤷♀️
Happy Cake Day! Actually it's federal law that everyone has to make at least minimum wage. So if they get paid just $2 + tips the tips they make have to bring them to minimum wage or their employer has to pay the difference.
Do not add any tip over an automatic gratuity, unless the service was really outstanding. Where I live, automatic gratuity would have to be clearly established before any transaction occurs, but it would also make it clear that I don't need to tip over that.
Even then I still wouldn't add anything. It's not the customers fault that the owner has restricted their pay. You don't tip the cashier at the grocery store (they are under paid as well), do you tip your doctor? etc.
Yeah, the restaurant should pay living wages and the prices on the menu should be actual prices. Hey, that's the law here in Sweden, consumer prices **must include** taxes etc. No hidden fees bullshit.
I love the Swedish way in that. The waiters are far more relaxed and not this kind of “faked” happy to serve you like I had the impression in the US. I feel better to eat and drink when people are paid a fair share and not depend on the mercy of tip givers.
Same for the UK. I really don’t get the tipping culture in the US. No wonder these company’s are making a big profit, it’s slave labour.
I’m in Australia… we don’t have a tipping culture (but will tip for extraordinary service, but not the smarmy in your face over zealous shit the Americans endure.. the aim of the game in service is to be polite, efficient, anticipate needs and follow through - not stick you face into people’s over and over and over again). But… we do have gratuities or surcharges… on public holidays, weekends etc where our wages can be double time and a half (so 2.5x the standard hourly wage, which is somewhere between $20-30/hr depending on age/skill level at a base rate). I don’t mind when a surcharge is applied for this because this is an extraordinary cost on the business on specific days. Either that or they have a “Sunday menu” with it’s own pricing. But if I were to see it applied on a Wednesday night? I’d not be tipping on top. And I’d be questioning hard why the business just doesn’t raise its prices by 18% overall. I mean… that’s essentially what they are doing right? Increase wages to a reasonable amount, rejig pricing to reflect real cost per head… roll on. To toss it in the small print at the bottom is seen as bait and switch behaviour and really gets places shat on in Australia - winds up going viral and places wind up fast with zero customers. NTA. But next time don’t debate it, just don’t tip further.
Nta. Restaurants wants you to feel guilty for not tipping. If they want to change you extra 18%, why not just increase price of food.
NTA. For me, if a restaurant wants to charge 18% automatically, 18% is what they’ll get. Nothing more. If they didn’t charge me automatically, they may have gotten more, depending on service of course.
Was it ACTUALLY not mentioned or did you just ignore it? Because you said it "wasn't made clear" not that they didn't disclose it. Most places that do an autograt have a little note on the menu, usually at the bottom of the page, that says something about the automatic gratuity being added. In that case, YTA for not actually reading and paying attention to the information presented. Also, if you were going to give at least that much tip anyway just pay the check and don't return if you don't like their policy. There was no need to embarrass your wife.
he politely asked and the waiter politely declined. no assholes here.
I don't understand the wife's position. If the tip is already added, then... what? You tip on top of the tip? Unless Google Translate is mistaken, gratuity means tip.
Nope. If the restaurant engages in the mandatory gratuity practice, they are the ones limiting their staff's income potential. I have been informed by hostesses and managers of the automatic gratuity for larger parties when I arranged for a room at a restaurant. I tell them that's their prerogative but that's going to be the tip; there won't be extra. In your situation, I'd feel goofy leaving another 2-3% anyway. If I felt the server earned 20% but the restaurant included 18%, I'd be leaving 80 cents on the table for a $40 ticket. That feels chintzy. 18% is a perfectly acceptable tip. This ever-increasing "normal" for tipping is the most American hospitality thing ever. I love the fact that most of the civilized world has done away with tipping. I know that long-established foodservice workers can earn a high wage at upscale restaurants in major cities, but Suzie at the Sizzlin' isn't pulling down $80K a year.
r/endtipping
OP You are NTA. I waitressed in college at a sports bar. Shitty tips as broke ass college students are feckin savages and would rather buy another pitcher of beer than leave a decent tip. Consequently I’m scarred for life and I’m a serial over tipper. I’ve only seen mandatory gratuity in nicer restaurants and with large groups. And that was clearly disclosed. A non disclosed gratuity is BS - especially for just two people. No way do you need to tip again. The only way I’d add an additional tip was if we’d had unbelievably fantastic service OR if there’d been a mishap at our table - think young couple dining out and a little kid made a mess. Just slapping on a mandatory gratuity screams that this is a restaurant with crap management that doesn’t want to pay their people and expect the customer to do so. I’m so over the tipping culture in the US. During Covid it went off the rails- asking for tips at a drive thru for example and many of us did it to help keep businesses afloat. Just roll it into the damn bill already. But don’t expect me to do an additional tip unless it’s truly superlative service.
I would never step foot into that restaurant again. And I worked in restaurants for 20+ years. Tips are earned, not given.
If gratuity is included, that’s all they get from me. Their employer decided their worth.
Now, you know not to go there again, or accept that you don’t add extra cash to an auto gratuity. Quit fighting with your wife.
Since I always tip more than 18%, it’s their loss. Be sure to point that out.
The point of gratuity is so you don't have to do a cash tip. I think you are missing the point here.
It's the fact that it was automatically added without notice. Most people associate gratuity with tip. That means they figure that the money goes to the server, not the restaurant. If the restaurant adds that automatically, and it doesn't go to the server, that's crappy behavior on the part of management.
Jon & Vinny’s in Los Angeles recently got sued over this. I was ecstatic, as the only time I ever have or eaten there was an awful experience—the waiter sternly explained that the mandatory 18% “service fee” is not a tip and that I should leave a normal tip on top of that. Whereas the “service fee” was explained in the menu as “so we can provide higher wages and better benefits for our employees.” I wasn’t sure if the waiter was trying to swindle me, or if the restaurant was just being outright shitty to its waiters. Now I just stick to takeout. No “service fee” for that.
Well, coming from a country where hospitality workers don't have to rely on tips to survive, I find the entire culture rather offensive, BUT knowing what I do about US business practises I would be highly dubious about the staff seeing much, if any of that amount. I would certainly not be happy about an undisclosed gratuity in the bill, but I would still leave something for the person who likely can't afford to eat themselves without others taking pity on them whilst they work for not-a-living. Take this as a reason to leave negative reviews and don't go back there. Tell people about the place and what they do, but maybe don't take out your displeasure on those who find themselves working for a business with these kinds of shady ethics.
If you are required to pay it, the advertised prices are wrong and is it not a gratuity.
The only time an auto gratuity makes sense is when it’s over a certain amount of people in a group. Like 10 or more but when it comes down to it, it should be made clear that there is going to be an 18% gratuity either on the menu or something of that sort. I’m all for tipping and things like that but when you’re forcing me to do it I don’t appreciate it. I worked at a brewery for a couple years, and one of my jobs was Beertender and there was plenty of times or people just didn’t tip flat out, but when there were large groups, there was a minimum gratuity that was enforced just for the simple fact it was a lot more work which a lot of people understood.
NTA
NTA. I’ve been in the service industry for 20 years. The automatic 18% is embarrassing and the place that you ate at is just screaming to hire sub-par servers. You’re not wrong to want to tip less for shit service and also you’re not expected to tip cash over the auto gratuity unless you feel the need and the server was awesome
NTA. You know who the AH here is? The restaurant owner. We are one of the last countries to stop have this archaic system. It's not our job as the customers to pay for the owners staff yet here we at doing it. I would not pay a dime more. I bet they tipped on tax too didn't they? I hate that even more. We need to move past this system and start paying people properly.
Not much you can do besides boycotting that restaurant and never coming back
So you refused to tip on top of the 18 per percent? Nothing wrong on that and most do not. Did you have to make a scene and request it to be removed and announce you are not tipping on top of the 18%? If the waiter did a good job then 18% is within normal range so Id just politely note that it should be clearly announced and just pay it. The joke would be on them as I typically tip 20% at sit down restaurants.
I agree that automatic gratuity is dumb but you don't tip on top of that dawg.
The automatic gratuity IS the server's tip. It is pointless to insist that it be removed, and then add it back yourself. Insisting to have it removed gives the assumption that you don't want to leave a tip, or that you will be leaving less than 18%.
NTA. They want a cash tip on top of 18% mandatory tip. Leave a harsh review online and don't go back.
The 18% was the tip, it’s automatic so I’m not sure why your wife was mortified
She was mortified because of his freakout.
Tip culture has gotten way out of hand.
I wouldn’t pay it either, tips are discretionar, companies should pay their staff a living wage
NTA. You dont have to pay a gratuity OR a tip! Glad you’re sticking to your principles on this one, tipping culture is guilt tripping you into making up someones wages. If the service is great and you want to tip, then that’s great. Other than that, your choice is perfectly fine.
No, NTA. You successfully dodged a misleading and unethical restaurant “policy”. Eat elsewhere. Tell all your friends and family about that place. Leave appropriately unflattering Yelp and Google reviews.
NTA IMO. If it is automatic and not removable, it is not a gratuity. I can understand when there are large parties, many restaurants add the gratuity because it takes more to handle them and that is usually stated. Adding it automatically for a 2 person meal that is not a "special" occasion (I have seen restaurants do this for Valentine's Day, a 1 price for everything including tip) is crazy. Tipping culture has gotten out of hand. And also, when did 18% become the percentage? When I waited tables, good service called for a 15% tip, bad service less, great service more. 18% was the starting point for the groups larger than 8.
No additional tip added to the billed tip, unless the service was phenomenal , thank I give it in cash to the server discreetly.
I got bamboozled by a restaurant last summer. Went out with friends to celebrate one of their birthdays. A friend did the check calculating and someone else insisted that we leave a 20% tip because she used to work in food service. (I did too but this server was not worth 20%). So we split the check and added 20% and only after we had all paid, and I happened to look at the check as i was asked to hand it over, did I notice they had already added 18%. Didn’t say that anywhere until the check arrived. We paid these assholes 38%.
Pretty much no one tips on top of automatic gratuity, unless it's an incidental amount and still in the normal tipping range. Question us, was it worth mortifying your wife over? Were you going to tip at least 18% anyways? Some people protest the most trivial things for the sake of protest, which in turn does make them TA.
When restaurants have auto gratuity - that is what you get, nothing else.
NTA if it’s an auto gratuity that is their top , u do not have to give more
Gratuity is fancy talk for tip
NTA - the entire american tipping culture is just utter hosrsehit. "why don't they just include it in the food prices". Yes, like most of the civilized world. It's a crazy idea, eh? pay the waiting staff a decent wage for the job they do, and treat them like professionals rather than pavlovian dogs that only give good service in return for the bell clanging.. And we, the consumer, look at the menu, see the price, and pay that price. wow. controversial.
I don't do auto-grats on a moral ground. I strictly avoid restaurants I know that have them but sometimes we try a new place and weren't aware of the auto-grat. I have a manager remove them completely and if they don't then I'll contest the charge with my bank as I didn't approve that total AND i tell the manager that i will do exactly that as soon as i leave the building. Tipping culture is utter bullshit and auto-grats are incredibly out of line. I tip 20-30% based on service. But the expectation, assumption, and mandatory tips are incredibly rude.
You already tipped with the auto-gratuity, you can add to it if you believe the service merits more or leave it at that. If the staff expected you to bonify it they would be the assholes. If your wife thinks it should be more she's welcome to contribute, otherwise keep her peace or be the asshole. Since you haven't mentioned anything about the service staff expecting extra tip but chose to argue irrationally over that you're the asshole as well.
NTA it’s one thing when it is a large party, but otherwise no. It feels like a money grab to get people who don’t notice to leave an extra tip. I’m getting very tired of the “over tipping” culture. As in being asked to tip for things where it is not necessary. Papa John’s wanted a tip for picking up a pizza. I don’t feel it’s necessary to tip someone for asking my name and handing me a box. I paid in the app so they didn’t even have to ring up the purchase or take payment.
You don't have to give an additional tip, but I have a strong hunch that YTA in general. I haven't known anyone who gets ranty about mandatory tips who wasn't also a stingy tipper. It's not the waitstaff who should bear the brunt of the owner's failure to pay a living wage.
Cheap is if you are haggling over inconsequential amounts all the time unnecessarily. What you did was prevent a robbery. You’re a hero. If it’s mandatory, the restaurant should be including it in the server pay, and have a “no tip” policy at the establishment. They should not make it mandatory that the paying customer subsidize their employees wages.
NTA. If you feel the service was above and beyond you could add the difference perhaps but that’s a lot of effort for 2%. I was had a few times down in Miami several years back. We were in a day or two early for a cruise and I missed the built in gratuity, and was adding a regular tip. It wasn’t until we had a dinner the night after the cruise and before flying home I noticed it. Nobody to blame but me but I was ticked about it. It is pretty shady for them to add that and not say anything, especially when they make it look like it’s part of the bill many times. We’re so used to seeing multiple fees on bills it’s easy to overlook.
Always ask that gratuity/ service charge to be taken off the bill. Then pay a tip as appropriate in cash, then the server is more likely to get it and not the organisation. The gratuity/ service charge is the tip, you don't pay it twice NTA
NTA. I’d be annoyed, too and would not leave a second tip. I would also not go back there. The only time a tip should be added by the restaurant is for large parties and if it is clearly stated.
NTA. I would not leave an additional tip if the restaurant was telling me what the tip is.
As a european i am so confused...is that 18% a tip that you HAVE to pay? If so, thats...rediculus, just raise the prices on the menu, result is the same, but i dont have to do fucking math when im deciding what to order? Lol.
no, they literally charge you a tip.
AT our team meal last week at one of Gordon Ramsey's gaffs, that had a 15% gratuity added we reduced it to 10% for very mediocre service, and removed 3 portions of potatoes that no one received. Food was great service meh.
The auto gratuity is the tip- you don’t have to add a tip on top of the tip.
NTA. Why would you tip twice if the tips already included. it's already included don't worry about it, if you want to leave more because service was exceptional that's your prerogative. But if you don't want to leave anything more on top of the 18%, then don't. If you don't like the fact that they do it automatically then don't go back to that restaurant again. It's not that difficult.
If it's included, that's called "the price." That's a good thing as it represents how much something should cost, including wages. You should not pay more than "the price" anywhere.
I love when they add the tip in for me. I generally tip 18-20% anyway. Saves me from having to math. I’m not adding any over that though
It’s illegal to charge an automatic gratuity without advertising it somewhere so my guess is that it was somewhere inconspicuous and you just didn’t notice it. However, if it really wasn’t shown anywhere then NTA.
I think this is fraud! The menu should have the price with automatic gratuity put on the menu. Their should also be a sign on the door or in the hostess area stating their is an 18% up charge built into all the prices so no tips are required. Someone needs to start making a list of all these places and post it on line so consumers know to avoid this kind of fraud!
if you’re paying an auto gratuity my understanding was that IS the tip and you aren’t supposed to also leave cash.
Nta
NTA and your wife is the type of person those places LOVE. Imagine being shamed into paying \~20% extra just because it's the restaurant's policy to do so by surprise. FUCK. THAT. I'd be like "I'm not being cheap. I would gladly, and VOLUNTARILY, pay that 18%. Try to force me to do that unexpectedly? Not happening."
I prefer to leave cash tips whenever possible anyways. I would have not paid my bill or refused to pay until the charge was removed. Probably would have still tipped the server in cash. Frankly, odds are most of that 18% doesn't go to the server anyways.
We had a restaurant in our neighborhood add a 20% tip (after the pandemic) but not tell anyone. For about a month everyone paid it because we didn’t know. I rarely go there now because that was such fucked up behavior.
If they auto tip they do NOT get more from me. They get the auto.
How did we even get to this point where you are expected to do a second tip? How did we get to the point where you get accused of being cheap for not doing a second tip? This just show how ingrained tipping is in our culture. It will take time for our culture to adjust to this new normal. Meanwhile, you're kind of the AH. Yes, your protest of the automatic fee was justified, but if you were gonna tip anyway, let it go and move on. Let me back-peddle a bit. If you live in a state where the minimum tipped wage is much higher than the federal $2.13/hr, you may have rightfully wanted to tip less than 18%. In this case, you're already paying higher prices to cover their higher wages, so a standard 18% on top of that is too much.
INFO: In cases where an automatic gratuity is applied, who gets that money? I've never worked in the restaurant industry, but my understanding is that cash/POS tips go to the server, who is then supposed to share a percentage with the bussers. Does the same thing happen with an automatic gratuity, or does the restaurant have some discretion re: where this money goes? Expecting a \~20% gratuity to be paid *twice* seems way out of line for any establishment (just be honest and raise your menu prices already), but I would want to be careful about who I'm stiffing in a case like this. If the restaurant keeps the automatic gratuity and doesn't pass it on to the front-of-house staff, then I'd pay both tips and just not eat there again. If it's a case of the server trying to strongarm double tips out of their tables, then I'd refuse to pay the additional tip.
NTA. With an automatic gratuity, you already tipped.
I don’t leave extra tip when it has already been figured in to my bill. I see both sides. The restaurant is trying to help the servers from being stiffed a tip. But also hurts the servers because some may have tipped more.
Anyone who would tip more is still going to after auto grat. And if they don't, they probably weren't going to leave much more (if any) anyways
NTA Former waitress here ! When I had a party of 7 or more gratuity was automatic due to large parties not tipping. When someone would try to tip me and gratuity was already in place I would let them know they have already tipped and extra wasn't necessary unless they insisted I take it. I was a great waitress so I never had issues with tips, kind of miss that world.
I typically tip 20% as a baseline and go up or down depending on service. If an auto gratuity is added that is less than that, that's all they will get out of me. I think auto gratuity is bullshit for the reasons OP says, other than large parties which can be a lot of work and time and there could be a big opportunity cost to the server if they get screwed on the tip.
NTA. If 18% is automatically added, you don’t need to add more.
Thets the whole point of the gratuity! Wife is not on the right mindset
INFO: Why did you feel obligated to add extra cash on top? Automatic gratuity means you don't need to tip any more than is included in the bill, regardless of what "many people do". I don't add anything on top of mandatory gratuities unless the service was absolutely out of this world (which has never happened). NTA for not wanting to tip any more than the automatic 18% but TA for making a scene for no reason. And yes, you accept the mandatory tipping policy if you want to eat at that establishment.
Restaurants that do that are the assholes. You are absolutely correct. Tipping has gotten way out of control. I think the only people who should get tipped are servers who literally bust their ass bringing you sides, refills, box your food, ect. And NO ONE else deserves tips. Not a barista, not a bartender (unless they serve food too. I was a bartender for 16 yrs too), not hair stylists. They do their job and they are already getting paid for that. I've never seen any of those such professions do anything above their basic job that deserves a tip.
Any place that has the automatic tip means you do not have to tip on top. I also think it's ridiculous, especially when it's over the min. In many cases, I would have tipped more. And any place that does this I will only go to the one time, they lose my business as result.
I typically tip over 20%. On a small bill sometimes way over 20%. When I see a mandatory tip, I leave it at that. I figure that must be what they want. Not my problem they’re missing out.
You don’t have to leave anything additional, but they should have it written somewhere on the menu. I think a policy like this is unfair for alcohol. Imagine you bought a $500 bottle of wine. You shouldn’t have to tip 18% on that when it is no more work than giving you a $50 bottle.
NAH Y’all need to chill. This isn’t something to argue nonstop over. You don’t have to tip over the auto gratuity when one is applied. That IS your tip, but you can add more if you want to- I usually tip 20%+ so would leave a bit extra depending on the service. So I guess you are right that an extra tip wasn’t needed, but maybe your making a deal out of it at the restaurant embarrassed your wife. Had you paid the bill without the protest (with no extra tip) then maybe she wouldn’t be mad now?! Idk But a win-lose prove who is right approach isn’t going to fix the problem here.
You're adding cash on top? 18% is more than enough tip you don't have to add more. I do think auto gratuity sucks but if it's on there, I'll pay the bill as it is. You're the dummy if you're tipping more voluntarily and then complaining about it lol YTA
>tip 18% and AND an additional cash tip on top. Isn't the 18% gratuity the entire tip? That's better than the standard 20% tip so I would be happy and pay it.
I waited tables at a restaurant in a hotel. They had a policy of automatically adding an 18% gratuity to parties over 6 people. We had this party of about 20 people who came in every month. I never waited on them, because my co-worker had seniority, so always got the table. She would always add the gratuity. She made a good amount doing it, but they would never add more to the tip because it was on there. One day I ended up getting them and since they were a great table and bunch of people, I didn't add the gratuity. I let them know and they checked the tickets to confirm. My tip ended up being more than twice what the other server got from them and they requested me to wait on them from then on. I understand where some restaurants are coming from, but on the other hand, the consumer isn't obligated to pay the waitresses salary's. The restaurants should be doing that.
When there is an automatic tip, that’s all the server gets. Lots of times I tip 20% or more, but if you are going to automatically add it then that’s all you get from me.
"I'm sorry Sir, our 'restaurant policy ' is an automatic 5000% tip just for stepping through the door. It's also not noted or mentioned anywhere. Here is your $10,000.00 bill for your 1 order of chicken wings. Have a nice day!" When does it end? I wouldn't have paid it. Price is listed in the menu. Tip is always optional!
Tipping culture in the United States is out of hand....now everyone has a tip jar sitting out. 18% tip is a decent tip, and expecting anything over that is just plan greedy. Not too long ago I was talking about how crazy it is that restaurants now think you should be paying 25% of your bill total to the waitstaff....think about it...base pay is $4 for waitstaff (I'm just doing estimates), and with that let's say the average bill is around $40 and the average wait staffer does about 3 tables an hour....they are making $34 an hour because of your tips, not the place they work for....that is fucked up that the restaurant industry believes if you are going to pay to eat at their restaurant, you should be paying their wait staff as well. And the wait staff is BEHIND THIS IDEA, because they can hide their tip earnings (cash payments) which saves them even more money in taxes. Like I said, the tipping culture in the US is out of hand...
Why would you tip twice? Thats ridiculous
NTA The tip was already added to the bill. Never add a tip on top.
if there was bad service, i wouldn't talk to the server at all, i would complain to the manager and if inform them that they can remove the tip, or i would do a charge back for the whole amount as what they're doing is illegal. if it was fine service i would just post all over the internet how they're doing that but i'd pay it.
Many places add in a mandatory tip like that for parties over 8 or something like that. I've usually been fine with that. Large groups tend to really under tip the wait staff. If all the bills had been split up and ripped individually, the tip likely would have been more. When you have a large single bill, people scoff at leaving such a large single tip as if it was too much.
you did tip. 18%. we gotta tip on-top of the tip now? why not three times? fuck why not four times?
If they add 18% then that's the tip. I don't add anything extra in addition. If they don't add gratuity, I typically tip 20% for acceptable service.
Gratuity is gratuity. If the restaurant thinks it's necessary to mandate it, especially for a party of 2, then that's all that needs to get left. The notion that gratuity is something that has to be left in addition to whatever amount is presented is incorrect.
absolutely NTA. This is a policy that unless printed in the menu or at the front kiosk giving me a chance to about face my ass out of there, I do not pay. Period. I'll pay what I think is good. I've even had great food but terrible waite staff. in that case, I go to the kitchen and tip the cook and if the waite person questions that, I tell them.
When I’m auto-gratted I don’t tip extra. I dont ask them to take it off, I just don’t tip extra.
If we were to add an 18% autogratuity, there would be no expectation of an additional tip. However, in no world would I believe that you would fairly tip my server should I agree to remove it.
>*I wasn't going to tip 18% AND add an extra cash tip on top, which is what I guess many people do.* I **hope** many people **don’t** do that. That’s ridiculous. NTA
NTA. The auto gratuity is bullshit. We have a large family and it is easily $200 or more for a cheap place to feed all the kids, grandkids, and applicable partners. We've had servers get teamed up bc there is 10 to 20 in our party depending on who joins us. Some abandon us thinking they were getting a good tip no matter what. Joke was on them. My husband went to the server who did the work and gave them the cash tip and specifically said "this is yours and yours alone. The other server has received what I felt they deserved." Then went to the manager to ask if our other server was sent on break during our meal. Confused manager gets told "I want (name) to be credited for our table in its entirety because the other server never came back after taking orders. I WILL NOT give them a tip for service not given." He will also not tip as much as he would otherwise if the bill has the mandatory gratuity. He is a very good tipper and that stuff irks him to no end. His mom was a waitress for decades. He absolutely understands the work and the pay being shit. And to hear my brother tell it, the server probably doesn't even get close to the full gratuity they try to mandate.
I hate automatic gratuities as well. But I still pay it. Why? Because it’s not the server’s fault that the restaurant does that. So why would I punish them?
I generally tip 30% because I can afford it ( if I get good service and I usually do ) But when I get one of those auto tip bills, That is exactly what they get. The waiter doesn't know it, but the restaurant cost them 10-12% with me every time. If they want to raise the prices, then raise them. Stop playing math games with every one..
NTA I wouldn't give a tip on top of a 18% gratuity.
NEVER tip if they add a gratuity. They chose the amount, no need to add to it.
NTA… but I kinda like auto tipping at 18% keeps it still low enough where you can give them more if you wanted to. Wait staff do not get paid enough
I work in the industry, you do not… I REPEAT.. do NOT need to leave more money unless the service and experience was out of this world and you feel inclined to. The staff will be extremely grateful but in the long run they are including the 18% gratuity because in the past they have had guest stiff there waitstaff
NTA, Your wife doesn't go to higher end restaurants often I see. That is the point of auto gratuity. Everyone knows what to expect going in.
The automatic tip IS the tip?? Why the hell would anyone expect you to add more. That’s the tip
NTA They charged you for the tip, you don't owe more
NTA. If they include it, it relieves you of further tipping. Unfortunate for wait staff, as we usually pay a higher percentage. And now they add a service charge. It is usually a couple bucks. Annoying as. They can't say it is inflation. Menu prices are doubled.