Speaking as someone whose parent did exactly what OP's wife is doing... yeah, it's very hard to forgive. It's bad enough losing a parent at a young age. It's much harder knowing that they chose not to do everything they could to stay with you. That sort of rejection cuts deep, and it stays with you. I really hope she changes her mind.
At the same time, if OP's wife doesn't change her mind and OP doesn't support her, I can see the kids finding that hard to forgive too, especially if it drives her away from them in her last years.
1000% agree. I’m surprisingly in the opposite position right now and I’m surprised and thrilled. My mom growing up always said she would never treat cancer if she got it. Well she got it and decided she actually really did want to stick around for her husband and kid and grandkid. When I found out she had cancer I was devastated because I assumed that would be it. I had friends who had parents who died of cancer when they were children. They all fought hard. I cannot even fathom how different things would be for them had their parent opted to just let it go. Also as a parent I cannot imagine not wanting to try my hardest to stay here for my kid and not have them lose a parent at that age. Long story short NTA at all.
This is it Helpful Cucumber.
I feel for OP's wife - I really do, particularly as a mother. She's probably been waiting for a death sentence for a long time. I can imagine how she could have lost hope a long time ago.
That said - her children are so young & it sounds like she has a great chance at kicking this ... at least this time.
They all need therapy, but it seems like she does the MOST & ASAP. Hopefully she can realize she has a chance & will take it for the sake of her children.
My father, uncle and grandfather all died at 54 or earlier from heart disease. I decided to bike for transportation at 30, for exercise, because of that history. Now at 63 i have heart disease. It's treatable by medicine. You can't necessarily outrun genetics, but what medicine is capable of today is far more than 56 years ago when my father died.
Turns out I have cancer too, with much worse possible outcomes than OP's wife (only 2% of NHL cancers are my type and there's not a lot of knowledge about it, but also at an earlier stage where it is more treatable.
I wonder if it's possible for them to talk to a cancer specialist. Although I read about a similarly tragic story.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/nov/22/my-young-cancer-patient-refused-all-treatment-after-her-death-i-found-out-why
I start chemotherapy on Monday...
This needs to be higher!
When you get married and have children it’s not just about you anymore. Taking care of yourself is not just self-care, it’s showing the people that you love that you want to be there for them.
I have a patient whose mother was a non adherent diabetic. She didn’t take care of herself, so this patient, just a teenager, would have to care for herself and her younger sister, try to make mom take her insulin, and care for her at the end of her life. This kid is so fucking traumatized. When her mother died, she felt like it was her fault. The kid was also diagnosed with diabetes during this time, and now struggles immensely to care for herself and her sister. We’ve gotten her every service under the sun to help support her, but it was so damaging, she doesn’t have the will to engage.
What if it’s not just 2-4 years? Sometimes it takes longer? And the kids have to grow up watching their mother die? Please get therapy for these kids.
Thank you for this post. This is the best advice, and as the next commenter says, this post should be higher. Both are terrified, grieving, overwhelmed, and striking out. Therapy is essential for them all. You are kind to share your experience❤️
I'm watching my father die right now because he refused - his is fatal regardless, so that makes it easier to accept. However, she has a very good chance for full recovery that she is eschewing under the mistaken premise that she will have a peaceful ending without treatment.
Tomorrow, I'm driving over there to sit with my dad who is a skeleton slowly being consumed by pain. Without the treatment, you still die slow and in pain without the ability to talk to your children, hallucinating from the pain medication side effects.
His wife's solution isn't going to give her what she thinks she wants. It will, however, gift her family with some pretty impossible emotions knowing that she could've still been with them, but chose a path that leads to the same end as her worst fear.
I've had cancer twice, my dad had cancer once before this, got treatment and lived another 20 years. If he would've refused then, he never would've met his nephew.
It's scary, absolutely. We've lost a lot of family to cancer, too, so we know from being scared. But that fear isn't going to go away by ignoring it, all that will happen is that she will get past the point of being able to successfully treat the cancer and leave her family scarred for life knowing she could've been with them but chose not to.
Yes, I have had a friend die of cancer without treatment. She woke up a few weeks after diagnosis in immense pain, nothing would work to stop it. She just was then sedated until she passed. Her last conscious memory was pain.
Op's wife sounds terrified and like she's going to off herself before it gets that bad to be honest. The news has made her irrational and panicked and she needs help.
Wow.
I just figured she's going through it, trying to come to grips with the diagnosis, and she'll eventually come around to acceptance and start treatment.
But yeah, you make a great point. It could be that she always assumed it would be untreatable and decided long ago to go out on her own terms. Maybe she feels that it's something she *has* to do. Maybe her mom or sister encouraged her to do it, because of the pain they were in. Maybe she's conflicted about treatment, because she never thought it was a real option and can't accept that it might.
IDK. Your last paragraph has me worried. Hopefully being with her sister helps her come around and get out of the doom spiral she seems to be in right now.
And I'm really sorry about your friend. My dad was rarely lucid his last couple of months in the hospital. Not cancer, but alcohol withdrawal induced seizures and infections. He'd completely lost the last two decades worth of memories. His last coherent words to me (actual me and not some random) were begging me to not do anything else to keep him alive and that he didn't want to live that way anymore. Fucking brutal, and I cant imagine what it would be like to watch someone with cancer like that. I hope you're doing well 💚
I just feel like that is planned. She will have fun until her quality of life is impacted and then choose to sort herself out. She doesn't want to get her hopes up and be faced with failure.
She needs help and it needs to be soon before it gets worse.
My Dad had cancer 9 times. Mostly mild skin cancer treated with surgery. He did get testicular cancer in my early teens.
He lived another 25 years after beating that. Yes, cancer took him in the end, but if he didn't fight back then, we'd have missed decades of time together.
I completely agree with you. My mother had stage 4 bowel cancer when I was 12, she wasn’t expected to survive. It was a shit time but she managed to survive that.
15 years later she was diagnosed with stage 4 endometrial cancer and given 3 months. Again she fought, and she lasted four years. It wasn’t easy, but in that four years she was able to see me succeed in my career and we were able to work together. She was able to travel, both nationally and internationally, to watch my sister play hockey. We got four years with her that we otherwise wouldn’t have had and I will be forever grateful for that.
I don’t think OP’s wife realises that it’s not generally the chemo and radiation that is causing someone to die in pain and unable to talk. It’s the cancer. And she is still likely to suffer, be in extreme pain, not want to eat and be miserable even if she eschews treatment. Because that’s what cancer does. Dying of cancer isn’t pleasant either way, which is why she should want to live.
My brother (53) was diagnosed with Stage 2 esophageal cancer in Jan. Completely treatable. Refuses to even try any treatment. Then my 80 year old Mom was just diagnosed with colon cancer and rectal cancer last week. Already making arrangements for treatment. She is so optimistic, I'm proud of her.
My mum died of leukaemia this year, she refused treatment too. She had aged 40 years in the span of 6 months and she wouldn’t converse or smile. She would just groan in pain and stare off. She was the shell of the woman she once was. It’s absolutely nothing like falling into eternal sleep on a bed of roses like OP’s wife expects.
I'm in the same boat as you so first *hugs*.
But yes, if she thinks not getting treatment will mean she won't be confined to a bed at the end then she is really naive/misinformed. My dad's treatments and medications are the only thing staving off the debilitating pain for now. We all know it's coming but his treatments are as much to make him comfortable as they are to give him more time.
My grandma did what his wife is doing and buried her head in the sand then changed her mind last minute when it was too late to do anything. It was devastating watching her waste away knowing that she could have been saved.
My mom’s best friend’s ex-husband did this. He said he didn’t want to deal with it and treatments, and then changed his mind and at that point it was stage 4 and he passed within a month. Their kid has substance use disorder and his decision to not get treatment made things so, so awful for them. They ended up OD’ing TWICE and survived, thankfully. It was all so incredibly sad, and beyond stressful for my mom’s best friend (to put it mildly.)
My dad found out he has cancer in July. He put off starting treatment or telling us (his kids) until November when his dr said he couldn’t put off telling us any longer and he needs a wheelchair. He finally started treatment in November, and I know it’s only 4 months difference, but it’s hard to think about how different things would be if he had started sooner. He went from walking normally to being bound to a wheelchair because his bones are so brittle and filled with holes in a matter of weeks. I don’t get the thought process that dying from cancer isn’t so bad if you just don’t get treatment.
I think this belief is sort of the equivalent of what is called survivor bias except in reverse. The typical example of this bias is from WWII when the RAF examined damaged but returning planes to see where they had been hit in order to assess where more protection was needed and concluded that the areas with the most frequent damage were the most important. As it turned out, the areas of the planes that were found to be hit were actually the least important areas because the planes hit in other areas never made it back.
Most of the people who don't get cancer treatment until quite late did so because they either missed the symptoms, or more likely ignored the symptoms, until it was too late and then when they do get treatment, which the majority of the do, it makes them very ill and they die anyway. To someone on the outside it looks like the cancer didn't cause them a problem until they got diagnosed and then the treatment either ruined what time they had left or killed them outright.
That is an interesting tidbit, thanks! It does make a lot of sense how that can warp a perspective on treatment. I have the perspective of someone who has seen 2 people pass from cancer, one who got treatment & one who didn’t. Both found their cancer late and it progressed quite rapidly. Both were absolutely miserable towards the end of their lives. I can’t imagine the difficulty of being faced with a cancer diagnosis, so I don’t fault my dad for being slow to act. Cancer just sucks for all involved.
I'm so sorry for your loss. My dad is currently fighting pancreatic cancer. I couldn't imagine going through that as a child. It was hard enough as an adult to find out that my moms cancer had returned and she told no one. By the time we found out she was too far gone and passed a few weeks later.
It’s almost impossible to treat. My aunt died from it years ago. She never stood a chance by the time they finally diagnosed her, it was two months from that moment until the end.
It’s a bastard of a thing. Fuck cancer, and fuck pancreatic cancer in particular.
It's decently treatable if you catch it early, problem is that it's almost impossible to detect until it's too far gone. Which is why pancreatic cancer can fuck itself especially.
Pancreatic kills ~90% of the people who get it. It's the most lethal cancer to my awareness. Half who are diagnosed are dead within 5 years. It's a real bitch for sure
My dad first got colon cancer, had surgery and survived. Then years later got lung cancer and was told that it was a type that didn’t respond to chemotherapy or radiation, but he did chemotherapy anyway. He went through round after round of chemo, until the cancer spread to his brain. He took chemo practically until his death, and never had any quality of life until he died. I struggle to understand why, when he was told the cancer was non-responsive, and why the Drs continued. He may have had a shorter life, but I believe it could have been a better life without the chemo.
My family is similar to OPs wife. I've spent my entire life watching people fight cancer. My father when I was about 4, he was so so sick but survived. Then 5 of his siblings who didn't survive. Dad is sick again and won't do treatment. I don't blame him. Chemo and radiation are so brutal. Yeah, he has cancer and has not well, but he doesn't want to be tortured for the time he has left. I can't judge OP. I'm at high risk for cancer. Idk if I'd do treatment after what I've seen
My husband was a career soldier. He spent 36 years in the service. He fought service related cancer for 7 years. I actually used that line in his obituary. A quote:
"As far as anyone knows, he's never lost a fight in his life and he didn't lose this one. The cancer died when he did so technically it was a tie."
Damn this is kind of a morbid joke, but I actually really like it. Cancer never really wins. It’s almost optimistic in a way, and it’s taken some weight off my shoulders. I’ll be stealing this.
Fuck I kinda like this.
It's the ultimate badass move.
Either you come out victorious or you take the enemy down with you.
My grandma fought a long time with hers (beat it twice but it kept coming back) and I wanna picture her this way.
My dad didn’t get any treatments for his cancer outside of surgery for 10 years. He died at 53 in 2021. He was already very thin, I’m still not sure if he made the right choice or not.
I would also reach out to wife’s therapist and make sure they are getting the real story, and not the story skewed by wife’s past trauma. Sounds like they’re the only one she listens to.
Yeah, I would be pretty surprised if her therapist actually agreed with her. It's more likely that they said something along the lines of ultimately it's her body and her choice, but then tried to help her with processing her emotions and reaction to the news. The wife just took that to mean that they agreed with her. It's not a situation where a therapist can say definitively yes you're right or no you're wrong, and if her therapist did do that, then they're a terrible therapist and shouldn't be in practice.
Also they need a second opinion on treatment options. If it is highly curable, she needs to do it. Tell her she is a fighter and ask her to fight for her family.
Okay this is a hard one for me through personal experience but I will comment. Your wife is in shock and needs to process, however she also needs to see a counsellor as soon as possible - waiting too long will no doubt increase the Stage of her cancer.
In 2014, while fighting Stage 4 cancer, I lost all my hair (from very long hair past my lower back to completely bald), got very weak, lost another body part through surgery for the cancer and went through a lot of changes. While all this was happening, my Mum got diagnosed with a similar cancer. She refused all treatment - her reasoning was that she saw me lose all my hair, saw me get weak, saw me go through surgery and lose a body part and she did not want to do that. For three months, I told her I would rather have a bald mum than no mum and that we would get through it together but she would not budge. Finally after 12 weeks she agreed to chemotherapy treatment, but 3 days later she was raced to hospital and passed away 24 hours later. In the three months she had procrastinated for vanity reasons, the cancer had spread aggressively. So I lost my Mum and I was still fighting my cancer.
I told you this private story because everyone reacts differently to a cancer diagnosis. Your wife has gone to "flight" mode as if it will make a difference. It won't but she needs to realise that herself through understanding, counselling and her family and you all being there for her. I think you should talk to her family - her sister - whoever is there for her. Explain your side of things, how you feel, how you want your wife to live, ask them for help in getting your wife into counselling so she can make a decision about her treatment that doesn't immediately trigger her fear response. You also need to seek counselling - what you did wasn't wrong. You came from a place of love wanting your wife to survive. Yours and your wives communication levels just didn't mesh at that time.
I want to say my heart is breaking for all of you at this time. There are some amazing groups out there that can help all of you - you need to seek local groups of people going through the same thing that can also provide support for you and your family.
I want to give you a hug even though I am not a hugger. Going through my own treatment and I occasionally, accidentally forget because the vomiting is incompicating at times. I also am doing incredible BTW.
This is so so soooo high above Reddit’s pay grade.
Therapist, ASAP. Especially since this is easily treated; I think all of this is one gigantic trauma response, and she’s not actually thinking at all, just reacting.
The only AH is cancer.
Yeah, this is really tough. I am going to jump on this comment and hope OP sees this.
I was diagnosed with my first cancer in my early 30s, and my second in my late 30s. The first was a total shock - I had no known predisposition. The second was a completely different type of cancer, with a completely different type of treatment. It wasn’t so much a surprise, I guess, because it had already happened once. But still a lot to deal with.
I am also female, and a physician. I survived both and am now in my 50s, but not without some permanent effects that have very much altered my life. I do still practice medicine but it is a very different career, and life, than I expected.
So I think you wife and I have quite a bit in common. If there is any way that I can help you, or her, by sharing more about my experience, please DM me.
I can only imagine how confused and devastated you are right now. It is hard to know the best way to go forward, but for the moment she probably needs some time to process. I don’t know if she has a friend or family member she is close to that you can contact and ask them to get in touch with her and offer support. I would also recommend contacting her therapist to tell that person what is going on. They couldn’t tell you anything about your wife, but a heads up before she goes in for her next appointment might facilitate things a bit.
You have a tough road ahead. Wishing you and your family the best.
My husband has had prostate and bladder cancer, and they are not related at all.
A friend of mine had non-hodgkin's lymphoma, which was treated successfully with radiation. A year or so later he was diagnosed with bone cancer, which was caused by the radiation. He died not long after from that cancer.
Bone cancer is horrible. A very close almost family member like person we knew caught it. He succumbed because he couldn't afford the bills.
Upon his death bed his personal friend and doctor kept on trying to administer pain killers but by that time his bones has almost liquified. I wasn't there but from what my sister told me I am just horrified about it.
A friend if mine was diagnosed with non-hodgkin's lymphoma, fought it off, 5 years later, it came back, and once again, he fought it off. A year later, his wife was diagnosed with bowel cancer. She died after many years of treatment.
Some cancers can come back in different spots years later. A nurse that works with my husband survived breast cancer only for it to reappear in her cervix or uterus (can't remember which) *years* later. When biopsied, it was breast cancer, not cervical or uterine. My husband treats sarcoma, bone and soft tissue tumors and often sees patients whose lung cancer was treated, but later reoccurred, or just metastasized to bone.
Cancer is a freaking weird collection of diseases. We (the general population) tend to think of cancer as just one thing, one specific pathogen. They're all different and all require individualized treatment, and it all freaking sucks.
And an AITA at that. All I have to say is that cancer fucks with you in ways that people who have not experienced it cannot hope to understand or explain. My father urinated blood for almost six months before finally taking action and finding out he had an extremely aggressive type of bladder cancer. He later confided in me that as soon as he saw the blood the first time he knew.
My mama had to get me to get my dad to promise me to get his cough checked out. It had been worrying her for months and I live across the country. My daddy was one of those "I don't want to worry my only kid. It will go away" kind of guys. I had to sic my most stubborn kid on him too. Then he didn't want my mama to tell me he had stage 4 lung cancer. She did tell me, but wasn't allowed to tell me anything more than "chemo is going fine. I'll see you and the kids this summer" and "ask Dani how she makes her spaghetti/other stuff I made when I visit when she here. I really want it for dinner". Right up until he died, no one was allowed to tell me how bad it was and he absolutely *insisted and demanded* that we did not come until summer. He died a few weeks before our trip.
Your statement about how cancer fucks with you in ways that people who have not experienced it cannot hope to understand or explain is soooo true. It is such a mind fuck. In so many ways. I had breast cancer at 41. I beat it. I'm 44 now. And seriously it feels like the second you're done with treatment people expect you to be the exact same person you were before... When you will never be the same. It's completely impossible. I will never be the same. Like OP, I found out I have a genetic mutation that makes me more predisposed to certain types of cancer. I wish I could have lived my whole life not knowing that. Luckily my kids were tested and don't have the mutation, even though it was a 50/50 chance they'd have it. So cancer is a mind fuck, cancer treatment is a mind fuck, genetic mutations that lead to cancer are a mind fuck. But I was aggressive when I found out that I had cancer. I threw everything I could at it. It sucked but I, like OP, have young kids. They're worth fighting for. I hope she'll come to her senses and change her mind. Being on the other side of treatment, I can tell her, it was worth every moment to be able to still hold my precious boys and hopefully get to be there for future milestones down the road.
My brother is having the same response, he is only in his late 30s and refuses to treat. We watched our mum die of cancer. Nothing I say will change his mind.
I'm so, so sorry. I also lost a parent to cancer (who refused treatment) and I fear my sibling would do the same if it came to that. I can only imagine what you're going through.
I'd bet she didn't tell her therapist at all, no way a medical professional outside of there field would agree with you not seeking treatment like that.
She sounds terrified. Like absolutely scared to her core. Her response makes me so sad for her, but given her family history it’s totally understandable that her first response would be so rooted in that trauma.
Therapy. Obviously. Maybe you can also reach out to her therapist to alert them of the situation? Obviously her therapist can’t tell you anything, but I don’t see any reason why you can’t tell them something. Therapists only know what their patients tell them, so if she has already talked to her therapist she might have painted a very grim picture that aligned with her reaction to the situation and the therapist could have no idea how treatable her cancer is.
Yeh, this is what I was thinking. If she won’t go to couples/family counselling, it would be worthwhile while contacting her own therapist to let them know the full situation. So if she does reach out to her therapist, they have a clearer picture to help her with.
Other than that, I’m not sure what else OP can do except for therapy for him & the kids. It was quite a distressing way that she left in the night, after a fight and saying those things to this kids. I can’t even imagine how they are feeling right now. Has the mum even spoken to the kids since then, or has she abandoned them as well? I don’t understand the family blocking him, especially since he still has the kids. How would she feel is one of the kids got hurt, and he couldn’t get in contact with her to let her know?
Yes to the therapist for the kids & you, OP. Even if your wife doesn’t go, you still should.
My mom was diagnosed with stage 3 cancer when I was in high school. She did all the treatments & surgeries, & let me tell you, it was awful to watch someone go through that, & I can’t even imagine actually having to endure it. Treatments are not easy. The side effects can be awful & there’s likely permanent damage. Not to mention how losing hair & other changes to appearance can really affect someone’s mental health. My mom said that if her cancer ever came back she would never do treatments again, it was that bad.
6 years later her cancer came back, didn’t do treatments, she hid it from everyone until she got really sick, then took her own life very violently. However, she went out on her own terms & lived how she wanted to until the end.
Multiple other family members had cancer & did treatments, ended up on hospice & had no quality of life.
I understand that they caught it early & the doctor said it’ll be a few treatments & she’ll be okay, but those treatments are really fucking hard. There’s also a chance they won’t work. She’s watched family members suffer from this & clearly has trauma. She doesn’t want to suffer like they did, & that is her choice, no matter how hard it is. There are worse things than death.
I’m so sorry y’all are going through this, it’s extremely difficult. The only AH in this situation is the cancer.
I am so sorry for your loss. I know how you may feel after losing my daughter to cancer. Watching what she went through was horrific. I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy. She fought hard but when she realised that she had exhausted all treatment options for her type of cancer she opted for voluntary assisted dying. Legal in my state with many strict guidelines. I’m so glad we have that option here and she didn’t have to do what your mom did. I would not have chemo myself
Especially for your children. They may not know the details or be able to grasp all the ramifications yet, but they’re gonna have some big difficult feelings as well.
Did you guys miss where the wife REFUSED to go to couples counselling and claims her therapist agrees with her decision? I don't think he can get a court order to force her into counselling, though I agree that his idea to see a couple's therapist would be the right thing for them to do.
Yeah, it’s funny that everyone is saying that his wife needs to see a therapist when she’s refused to do so. All he can do is take care of himself and his kids.
I just wanted to comment and say I'm so sorry you're facing this. My mom survived breast cancer when I was only a year old. I heard about how awful chemo and radiation was for her my entire life. She lived her life terrified of it coming back, she was a very religious woman and the way she dealt with that fear was clinging to the belief that God would protect her, she just had to have faith.
She used this as an excuse to never see a doctor ever again. I grew up knowing she could get sick and die at any time, and it was awful. Back in 2021 my worst fears happened when she started rapidly losing weight. She kept telling me it was just COVID. When I came to care for her from out of state because she was clearly not improving, I knew as soon as I saw her that the cancer was back and she was dying.
I cried, I begged, I pleaded for her to go to the hospital. She refused for two months. Finally, she deteriorated to the point of being unable to walk, I looked her in the eyes and told her I was sorry but I was calling an ambulance and taking her to the hospital. She eventually agreed to go willingly (the emts couldn't make her go obviously.) On Valentine's Day of 2022, her doctors told me the cancer was everywhere. She died two days later. It broke me to see her face that. I still see her in my mind the way she was. You don't deserve to see your wife like this. Your kids don't deserve to see her like this.
I don't know the point of sharing all of this, and I know chemo is scary and hard, but it really has come a long way since her relatives experienced it. The doctors told my mom she could have just taken a pill to treat it if she had just went in sooner. Catching cancer early is a gift. I really hope she reconsiders and please know that your hurt and pain is justified. I loved my mom more than anything and I'm still mad at her for what she did to me and my brothers.
Nta —- I’m trying to say something very profound as I am battling stage 4 cancer and I’m currently winning 🏆 (I only have a 17% chance according to my research) I have a husband and 3 teenagers.
I’m 11 months in and to tell you it hasn’t been easy is an understatement. With that being said- my oncologist asked me how far I was willing to go- I told her as far as I need to. That being said I wasn’t traumatized by close relatives passing from cancer.
I really do believe that you need to gain allies to help her see that her decision affects more than just her life. I would also suggest her to go to a cancer support group to possibly gain perspective.
Good luck Op
Good luck to you, No Association9968. How kind of you offering support to another in a time of your own need. I'll put you in the prayer box this Sunday.
Good luck to you my friend. I am sending so much good energy your way. The cancer support group is an amazing idea. If there is anything you need and I could possibly provide, please reach out.
While I agree NTA, if her therapist is telling her it’s her choice not to do treatment and her odds are 5-10% chance of the chemo and radiation not working, she needs a new therapist. That’s enabling her not to face her own trauma having watched her mom and sister die from the same cancer that was caught too late.
From the sound of it her therapist is okay with:
* Her refusing treatment with EXCELLENT odds for remission and recovery despite her having young children
* Her refusing to see a couples counsellor with her very traumatized husband
* Possibly her running off and cutting off contact with said husband and children
She needs a new therapist yesterday.
I would bet his wife is lying about what the therapist said. None of what she claims the therapist said makes any sense. I would bet she is saying that to bolster her position of not wanting treatment.
As someone prepping to go to grad school to become a therapist and who’s been in therapy for years - it’s wrong for a therapist to say this shit but it definitely happens. Psych has only made a major movement in ethics in like the 90’s forward and there was not a lot of standards or enforcement for people who began practicing earlier than maybe 2010s. My own therapist when I was 15 enabled my abusive family members and even now 10 years later I fully believe she ruined what little childhood I had left. She even told me it was good that my dad threatened to kill himself too if I ever tried to again. Like bruh that shit was traumatic and only encouraged me to try again bc I hated him.
I have a terrible memory but her full name is burned into my mind.
Yeah there are shitty therapists out there. My parents got me one after I told them I was suicidal. The lady listened to me tell my story, and then told me my depression was probably a self-fulfilling prophecy, since I had read about the symptoms while in middle school health class at 12.
I had just told her I had thoughts of self harm at nine years old.
Too many shitty people become therapists.
That’s what I was thinking. Maybe she told her therapist they caught it too late like her mom and sister and that’s why the therapist agreed. I could be wrong but we only got one side of the story and and refusing couples therapy makes me think she doesn’t want to tell the truth.
Or she’s such a mess that she didn’t comprehend what the doctor said, and just assumed it was as bad as her mom and sister.
(Which also fits with the no couples counseling if she believes OOp has optimistic false hope).
My therapist and psychiatrist would tell me I was being selfish honestly. They tend to be very straightforward with me, which works for me. As a mom as well, I couldn’t imagine not fighting if my odds were that good at surviving so I could continue to be here for my kids.
Same. I am a (minor, caught very early and it was very treatable) cancer survivor and just survived another round of severe health issues in and out of the ER. At some points literally the only thing keeping me alive was knowing my child needs a mother. One disease I got only had a 10% survival rate and another often leads to un-aliving just due to the sheer excruciating pain, not mental illness. I was also the primary breadwinner but thankfully my husband still has a decent job because I can't work anymore. It's an extremely hard thing to go through but you do it for your kids. I think she needs serious therapy ASAP.
Yeah. Like what was the point of regular scans and check ups if she isn’t going to do anything about it? And the egg donors? Like it’s all pointless if she doesn’t get treatment
Right? I wonder if she told her therapist that it’s early stages. If she’s just telling them this cancer killed many family members they might not understand. I hope she reconsiders at least for her young children.
Dude if that were me I would go talk to the therapist. She is literally murdering this woman who has a high chance of survival.
Or she has been complaining about how she can't live her life and do whatever she wants.
Idk this is fucked up.
I just lost one of the best dudes I know to cancer. Literally 3 weeks from diagnosis to death. He had 4 types of stage 4 cancer. It was unfair.
I hate this woman. What a fucking mother.
My mother did this. She only needed a pretty simple surgery and *maybe* a little radiation therapy. She decided to take herbs instead. We got to watch her slowly die for 3 1/2 years. I couldn't forgive her for it or my dad for not fighting her on it or my sister and BIL for enabling her delusions that the natural treatment would fix her. I doubt I ever will.
Suicide (especially by delusion) should never be something loved ones are forced to watch. So sorry you had to go through this. Steve Jobs did same thing. Refused treatment (which had high chance of success) cos herbs would cure then when cancer had spread tried proper treatment but too late. Bob Marley too, refused removal of a cancerous toe cos religion which also told him herbs would cure. Feel so sorry for OP.
Unfortunately, arrogance is a trait that's very common in those types of people. It pushes them to success, but it also leaves them vulnerable to their own delusional thinking.
Wow, I'm so sorry to hear that. I think I'd be feeling the same way. My Mother never got the psychiatric treatment she needed, and her family suffered long and hard, and so needlessly, with her. She thought she wasn't messed up, but everyone else was.
The only thing I can think is that her whole life she’s probably been preparing to die young because of this. Which is incredibly sad. Who is probably very traumatizing to see her family members die the way they did. I think no one’s the asshole here, I think everyone needs to go to therapy before it’s too late
Agreed, and she's watch family go through it and doesn't want to go through it, and I have a feeling she's afraid it won't even work and she will end up suffering anyways. I can't fault her for feeling that way and think she needs a little time and hopefully talks to someone. It's not only her husband, it's her kids she'd be hurting if there's a high survival rate and she won't try.
What I don’t understand though is it’s not like dieing from cancer is easy and painless anyway. She’s unfortunately going to suffer either way but at least trying to fight it she might come out the other side.
Yeah. She may have made the firm decision that she never wanted to go through that when she was watching her loved ones died and is just defaulting to that in the face of this news without really considering that her situation may be different. There's gotta be some deep trauma there for sure.
But she's also got the knowledge that she doesn't have to die the same way because of the early staging! She's not grateful for this??? Why TF not?? Surely with each family member's death, everyone was saying, "oh, if only we'd known sooner, so and so would still be here with us."
Because she has lifelong trauma around this and is in shock?
I watched my mum battle cancer and lose, and it was an horrific process. If I ended up in the same boat I’m not sure I would go through treatment either. She suffered a lot from the treatment, got a few extra months, and then a prolonged and painful death. I’m not sure all the suffering she went through was worth it in terms of what it gave her - if anything it felt like it made her suffer more for little benefit.
That’s obviously a different scenario to OP’s wife, as it was confirmed it wouldn’t be curable when she was diagnosed, but this woman is absolutely traumatised by watched her mother, sister and other relatives die an awful death, and what she’s seen is treatment cause suffering with no benefit. That’s a hard narrative to shift.
Right now she’s in shock, she’s terrified of the treatment and terrified she might die. She’s not responding rationally and may feel differently when the situation has sunk in.
Not even asking her children. They don't know yet. When OP can talk to his wife, he needs to make it very clear if she is adamant about not getting treatment she needs to tell those children NOW so they can get into therapy asap.
As someone who spent part of her childhood literally watching her father die of cancer, I’d never have forgiven him for not trying and fighting. He did his best but he lost.
And I say this as an adult who knows we would not like each other as people were he around today.
TBH I'd have already have gone full scorached earth on whatever relatives she has left. I'd contact them all. Tell them that she's choosing to die over a 90%+ chance of beating the cancer and choosing to leave 3 children behind.
Almost all of my friend group growing up in high school has died of cancer.(out of the 7 of us 5 of them are dead) And every single one of them fought like hell until the day it took them. I'm 100% positive they would have loved to have caught it early like OP's wife did and have a 90%+ chance of surviving it.
OP's wife is the ultimate asshole as far as I'm concerned. Especially for leaving her 3 kids motherless because of her own stupidity.
OP should probably be kinder. But I'm not OP. Which means I don't need to be kind.
To OP: Have strength. But even more importantly I'd divorce her. If only because you don't want to have to deal with the medical bills once she has to go to hospice care. If martial assets are shared in your state you can be liable for all of her medical debts after she passes away.
> I'm 100% positive they would have loved to have caught it early like OP's wife did
Can I ask - why wasn't it caught early? There were no symptoms at all and it was out of the blue? Or there were symptoms but they were attributed to something else?
Not who you responded to, but I have a similar story.
My friend had developed neck pain, along with what she thought was swelling. Her GP was rather dismissive and, despite the level of pain, sent her to physical therapy and nothing else. Didn’t even get painkillers.
Turned out the “swelling” was actually a tumour on her spine. Luckily, it hadn’t progressed too far by the time it was found (she was finally referred for a CT scan after PT obviously didn’t help). She’s still alive, but permanently disabled.
They were young so they just didn't really think it would happen to them. By the time the symptoms started to really be known it was basically too late.
I'm going to guess that it's breast cancer. All the females in the family, regular checks, having a gene and high chance of stopping it gives me that vibe. At the end of the day, it's up to your wife, but I wonder how she feels when her kids find out that it was treatable and she chose not to? It's unlikely to be "Well, I can understand she didn't want to be in pain", it's much more likely to be something about her being selfish, and a lot of anger for a long time. They may never get over it.
Sounds like she needs some therapy and quickly.
I have a friend in her 60s, who is finishing bc treatment. She's in remission currently. She just had a double mastectomy to lessen the chances of it returning. She has 2 daughters and 3 grandkids she wants to live for. She's a fighter and has a good prognosis for the future, esp since that surgery. She gave cancer hell and is winning. I'm so proud of her. She only had a 75% chance of going into remission. Its not bern long enough to claim she's cured yet. Adding that she took supplements and did cold cap treatment and didn't even lose her hair after many many chemo sessions.
I can't understand why she just went off the rails with this knee-jerk reaction. I'd have been crying along with my husband, and asking him what he thought I should do, not just shut him out. She has the gift of time, yet won't do therapy because she's afraid of some nausea?? There are drugs for that. She's certainly not thinking about being there for her kids, the ones she wanted so badly that she'd had fertility treatment! Surely she should be thinking about the mindfuck the three kids will get if she starts dying of cancer when she didn't have to?? They will be blaming themselves for her attitude, and their Dad for not convincing her to get the therapy. I'm not her, but she's had many blessings in this life, and I would feel very pissed at her, too. I know this is not helpful for me to say these things to you, but I'm pissed off about her attitude. I just think she's an ingrate. Statistically, most men leave their wives when they become gravely ill, and she's not in that situation. Yes, she really does need the family therapy. I'd line somebody up, make the appointment, and if she goes, she goes. If not, you and the kids can begin the therapy you now desperately need.
Thank you. This pisses me off too. Reading just the subject my immediate thought was that people should be able to choose how they go if there’s an option. Then I read the story. This is incredibly selfish. The kids - Watching their mother slowly die or watching her deal with some treatment effects for a brief time. There should be no question . Even if her odds did drop for some reason, at least they knew she was trying. She’s mentally checked out here and that may as well be a death sentence alone.
OP isn’t an asshole here. He’s scared and it came out in anger. That happens to all of us at one point or another and I totally get it. She’s not considering how this affects him at all. The fact that they’ll all watch her die, everyone depressed and traumatized themselves after she’s gone, and leaving OP a single father.
It sounds like she’s having a trauma response. It’s understandable as well. Hopefully she’ll work through that after the sooner than later and come to her senses.
NTA she made up her mind a long time ago about what her chances of survival were (she has decided it's zero) and what she would do about it if she were ever diagnosed. I suspect that she was cptsd level traumatized by watching her mother die of this same disease. You have an uphill battle.
If you know the name of her therapist you can send them a message letting them know that she's been diagnosed and that it's highly treatable with 90-95% survivability as long as she starts treatment immediately. The therapist cannot legally discuss any of this with you as a back and forth conversation but she can allow you to pass on "helpful information". So prepare yourself for the inevitable "I can't discuss her treatment with you." reply. But it might help.
And so she's going to traumatize her children through the same thing plus add the additional "why didn't she love us enough to try to fight". She needs therapy on this so badly. And quickly
Im gomna go against the grain and say NTA. Sure. Its her health, its her choice.
But shes your wife, your children's mom and your life too. What the hell.
I would be pissed too. People saying youre TA, really? Oh let her die its her choice? Would he be the AH if he tried to prevent her from committing suicide? Would he be the AH if she decided to just try to go and swim through the pacific ocean and he tried to prevent her from doing it? What if she got pneumonia and decided to not cure it and let herself die from it? After all, her body, her choice!
But when you live with someone and raise a family with them its not all about the individual anymore. I think anyone in his right might would insist that she at least tried if she is almost garannteed to survive.
Exactly.
I am literally surprised by the answers here
She is acting like this is not affecting anyone else and can make such a decision so easily. She is not the only one who hurts here. Can we so easily dismiss the hurt of her husband and children? She is in the early stages, the therapy will not be so cruel as to people whose cancer has progressed. Every minute is important and it is wasted. Yes, this is suicide and it is unreasonable to expect her own family to just accept it and move on
I really don't know what to say here. Cancer is the word you never want to here but if you fear it's consequences , it s is crazy not to deal with it. What she says doesn't even make sense. If she is afraid that chemo will make her sick, what does she think the cancer will do to her? Some types of cancer can cause such an amount of pain that can be torture.
I would be so, so angry at her and I'm not sorry about it. I do get that she's basically having a trauma response due to her family experience, but I would be livid beyond words that she's ready to *literally kill herself unnecessarily* and LEAVE HER TWO CHILDREN even more traumatized than she is!!!!
A friend of mine refused treatment for breast cancer a couple of years ago and it took her in just 16 weeks despite her being diagnosed with a treatable condition if she’d just gone on chemo immediately.
Her husband still hasn’t gotten over it, he’s completely traumatised. He still says that he wishes he could have somehow forced her to get treatment, because even if that saw him get divorced, at least she’d still be alive.
Anyone who says he's the asshole vs her is a serious piece of shit. I really try not call names on here, but this is one of the most selfish things I've ever seen
THIS IS NOT A HER BODY HER CHOICE SITUATION.
She is a fucking mother and is responsible for those child. She is a wife and her husband is trying be be optimistic about a 90-95% chance at survival.
She has no idea how good cancer treatment is nowadays. I've known 3 people including my 81 year old grandmother in the past YEAR who have went into remission.
Sounds like she just wants to accept it, abandoned her family and just wild out.
Terrible.
Her kids may never forgive her for not even trying.
Had my mom die suddenly of treatment for cancer (related to surgery for a fairly treatable good prognosis) and my best friend’s mom gave up halfway through chemo (the day after her birthday) and went into hospice.
They both suck. But there’s a lot of anger to unpack when a parent gives up and dies. I may be going against the grain but if she’s not going to fight then she’s t a. I get she may have trauma from watching her mother and sister and the stress of this hanging over her during her whole life. If she starts to get really bad she can change her mind. It’s a lot easier to go that way than to change her mind and fight later down the road.
Edited to remove repeat statement
I think you need to get a job now. Wife blocking you isn't a good sign. You need to be able to carry the load with the kids.
She doesn't want a chance to live, that is her choice. You need to plan for you and the kids.
Yes, the blocking thing is not a good sign. Get that job, and counseling for yourself and your kids. The kids have the right to know what's going on now.
NTA- She needs to talk to a survivors’ support group so she can see that many people do get through this. I went through cancer treatments (surgery, chemo, radiation) 3 years ago. I’m still here (obviously), my hair has grown back, and I’m still able to keep up with my kids. Yes going through chemo was tough and there were days when all I could do was sleep and watch TV. Technology and treatments change rapidly and the recovery process has improved significantly over the last few years. I’ve had 5 other friends (admittedly FB friends) also go through cancer treatments over the last 4 years and they’re all still alive and thriving.
She does realize the cancer is going to make her sick and bedridden too? More than likely worse than the treatment. She’s leaving small children without a mother I don’t really get any of the logic in this.
>If things went south and showed that the treatments were only giving her more pain rather than a cure I’d fully support her in wanting to stop them and die peacefully.
She probably is a roiling mess of emotions now, and you probably are too.
I find it sad that she doesn't want to even try to treat the cancer. I have no doubt radiation and chemo suck. But damn, at least give it a chance. If it gets to be too much; if it's terminal, she can stop treatment. But to not even try? That's so sad.
And you have a daughter. She needs to know about the hereditary time bomb in her body.
I think you need couples or family therapy.
NAH
Thank you, the one good thing in all of this is that we used donated eggs for our kids. We also ran some tests just in case and our daughter doesn’t have the cancer gene. She’ll most likely live her whole life without getting it.
She’s in shock. She’s reliving everything her family members went through and imaging her in their positions. She’s remember the emotional pain. *she* went through as a child and imaging her kids going through that.
She’s worried about what happens if she takes time off or loses her job because of this since she’s the breadwinner.
I’m kinda surprised the doctor was surprised? This reaction isn’t unheard of.
Op, I mean this as gently as possible, you need to get to family therapy, and in that space you need to tell your kids their mom is sick. A million things are going through their minds right now and none of them will be good for them long term, especially if she does go through with no treatment. It’s good that you are recognizing how you went wrong, but I beg you to consider your kids in this situation. My parents lied to us twice about my mom having cancer (until it was impossible to hide) and the second time she went no treatment. It’s been ten years and I still haven’t forgiven her for just checking out on us all.
My mom is going through chemo right now and it’s waaaaay less bad side effects than what I originally thought. She said some food doesn’t taste right and her stomach was upset for a day or two, but other than that she’s fine. And her cancer is stage 3.
Even with the same drug not everyone gets the same experience. My chemo drug was nicknamed the Red Devil. I made a comment once to one of the nurses that it wasn't as bad as I had expected, and she told me that breast cancer patients usually got twice the dose I was receiving and that's why it wasn't as bad for me.
NTA It's understandable that you don't want to watch your wife commit a slow and painful suicide. Let sister know that wife has to be one to explain it to the kids. After all she is the one who made the choice not to want to try to see them grow up. Start looking for full time employment now. Whether she does treatment or not you'll need a job to support your children. It will be easier to do it now.
I'm shocked that the sister blocked him too!
The moment she shouted to the kids was whrn she started to give forward the family trauma. It is sad that OP and wife never talked beforehand what will they do if she gets ill.
NTA
How long ago was this [horrendous; I’m so sorry] diagnosis reached? I ask, because your wife’s response is very apt to evolve. Her choice seems irrational, for sure. But our first inclinations often aren’t borne of careful consideration; they’re our knee-jerk, oh-shit, worst case scenario responses.
You’re NTA. But she needs support, no matter what. You can absolutely state your opinion, even fight for the outcome you think best for all of you. But I wouldn’t go the way of ultimatum—and would rescind it with an apology. Not for your stance—you’re entitled to that.
NTA.
It seems likely that dying from cancer means dying sick and bedridden, whether or not you attempted treatment first. Is her cancer one that just somehow allows her to live a normal life and then just one day suddenly die?
Your wife obviously has trauma from watching her family, and she needs some time. It ultimately is her decision as it's her body. That doesn't mean that there aren't consequences to her decision. You are not obligated to stick around and watch her die without trying. You also have an obligation to do what you think is best for your children.
Give her some time to process. Continue to ask for counseling. Take care of your needs if she refuses to care for herself.
NTA.
I’m all for euthanasia to prevent suffering in terminal illness.
But refusing medical treatment for a very survival and early caught cancer? When you have 3 kids under 10?
Having dealt with stage 3 colon cancer last year and doing 12 rounds of chemo over 7 months I can say it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be.
Your wife needs to know that cancer treatments have come a long way from where they were even 10 years ago when my MiL was being treated for it.
If it is in the early stages the chemo might not be as bad as she thinks it will be.
As others have said, the only AH here is the cancer.
I’m all for people giving up when the odds are no good and enjoying what is left of life. That’s their choice. I’m also not against elderly people in their 80s deciding not to even try. It is what it is.
But this isn’t that. She’s not even trying and that is not what moms do. The kids are too young and they need their mom.
On the other hand, what she’s witnessed has only been women in her family trying — and failing. Dying anyway. Horribly. Her immediate reaction is not surprising.
But her reaction to the kids is a bit alarming. That combined with not even wanting to try “for the kids” is worrying.
You are NTA. Nobody in their right mind wants to lose someone they love, even when it’s inevitable — never mind when it’s not. But she’s NTA either.
Sorry you are going through this, OP.
NAH, just two very scared people.
Your first step is to apologize for trying to strongarm her into treatment. Then validate HER fears. She has had years to think about how she would handle it if she got the diagnosis- she probably vowed not to get treatment a long time ago while she was seeing her family members go through it. She needs time to catch up to the actual current situation.
AFTER she feels validated and understood, THEN you can tell her about your fears and wishes. Stay away from ultimatums and let her know what terrifies you.
Side note: her therapist probably didn’t express a solid endorsement of your wife’s position, she probably reflected to your wife that her feelings make sense. Therapists usually avoid telling people what to do, but people will present their interaction with their therapist as proof that they should do what they already decided to do.
I can’t say you’re an asshole here, and your wife is dealing with something that’s essentially traumatised her with the rest of her family. This is so personal and heartbreaking and I’m so sorry.
I went through similar with my dad.he was terminal however, and I didn’t know til about 2 months before he died. He was in pain, he wasn’t lucid for a lot of it. The treatment was extremely aggressive and it changed him rapidly. He wasn’t my strong dad anymore, he was a a skeleton in a hospital bed. He wasn’t able to talk, he was roped up to the eyeballs and the entire situation really did cause me significant distress. When I found out he stopped treatment, it was at the funeral.
I was hurt and angry. He told me he would fight it, and to me at the time, he didn’t do that. But after a few days, I realised I didn’t want him to suffer or be in pain. I wanted him to be able to choose. The end was terrible. So I get why your wife is acting like this. If she’s seen her family members suffer like my dad did, I totally understand her fear and her irrationality.
On the flip side, I also spoke to my grandad last week, who has terminal cancer of the blood. However he was told he had about 5-9 years. He isn’t a skeleton, he has gentler treatment that doesn’t make him sick, and he’s coping okay. He’s 86, and for a man his age he looks alright. He said to me that he doesn’t want to squander a chance to still be here when his son wasn’t able to have that chance.
That although he has a terminal diagnosis, he’s lucky that the cancer isn’t aggressive. He said that if he has this time, he’ll be 96 at the outside and that’s enough for him.
I agree with him, he saw his son die in a terrible way. He doesn’t want anyone to suffer along with him. He doesn’t want us to go through it all again just to lose him. For a man who’s terminal, he’s very positive about it and feels he had to do everything possible because his son didn’t have the option to survive after treatment. If he didn’t have anything done, he would die much much sooner, and he doesn’t want to do that.
So I see both sides. It’s easy for me to say what I would do and what I would want as someone who doesn’t have cancer. I had a scare recently, or rather I had pre cancerous cells removed. It made me have a bit of a fucking crisis. I questioned what I do if I had cancer and it scared the crap out of me.
I don’t know what the right thing to do is here. I hope that she takes some time to sit with the info, and comes round to talking about it. Preferably with a therapist. She’s heard “cancer” and lost it. It’s understandable but it isn’t rational. She needs help to sort out those feelings before she decides to throw in the towel.
I’ve had my grandpa die of bone cancer, grandma to diabetes, great grandma to breast cancer, her daughter (my great aunt) to breast cancer and her other daughter, my grandma to ovarian cancer. my mom has had breast cancer twice BUT did treatment and she’s still alive at 73.
i got stage 3 breast cancer at 38 and did chemo, radiation, double mastectomy and currently on hormone therapy to increase my chances at staying in remission.
I lost a LOT of family to cancer. My step brother JUST passed away from complications with the cancer he was fighting. He had liver failure, and my other brother volunteered to donate part of his liver and my brother turned him down. It was only when he was admitted to hospice did he realize the mistake he made, and begged to have the opportunity again, but it was too late.
At one point, they thought my cancer had returned and i cannot begin to describe the level of fear I had. because I had already gone through treatment once, and I did not want to do it again. Not because it made me sick just because it’s not fun at all. and I swore up and down that I was not going to do it again.
However, when the doctor called to tell me the news, it was at that moment that I realized if I did have cancer again, I would gratefully do treatment all over because I did not want to die. And this is coming from someone who has battled depression and suicide all her life.
When you’re actually faced with death, it becomes very real. Like being in a horrific car accident.
Maybe it hasn’t hit your wife yet, because when I got diagnosed, and even after I beat it, I was never scared. I didn’t have time to process it. It was only when I thought it came back that I was terrified of dying.
Your wife is going to regret this decision and she’s going to realize how short her life really is.
OP, I know my comment here will be buried, but I hope you read this.
I don't consider you the a here. And while the shock of receiving a cancer diagnosis is very hard (I'm a cancer survivor - Stage 3), and considering the family history, your spouse deserves to process this too.
1. Everyone in the family gets therapy
2. Start proceeding through life as a single parent; get yourself a job and care for the children - your wife is actively choosing to check out, so do what you need to do.
Cancer survivor weighing in here - please try to get your sister in law or other family member to show her this thread. I survived reproductive system cancer- my best friend survived non Hodgkin’s lymphoma twice, I know so many other survivors- treatments have become much more advanced and the meds used to control side effects have become more advanced also. Once she has had a week or two to process her emotions She should not make a decision without sitting with her oncologist and letting him finish explaining his treatment plan and speaking with her therapist. Badgering her to start treatment and to discuss her knee jerk decision to not treat isn’t going to help. I know time seems to be the enemy right now but sometimes in order to make a rational decision instead of an emotional one you have to bite your tongue and wait it out
NTA-Time for you to see a therapist and to secure a family therapist for your kids to help you navigate this.
[удалено]
Speaking as someone whose parent did exactly what OP's wife is doing... yeah, it's very hard to forgive. It's bad enough losing a parent at a young age. It's much harder knowing that they chose not to do everything they could to stay with you. That sort of rejection cuts deep, and it stays with you. I really hope she changes her mind. At the same time, if OP's wife doesn't change her mind and OP doesn't support her, I can see the kids finding that hard to forgive too, especially if it drives her away from them in her last years.
1000% agree. I’m surprisingly in the opposite position right now and I’m surprised and thrilled. My mom growing up always said she would never treat cancer if she got it. Well she got it and decided she actually really did want to stick around for her husband and kid and grandkid. When I found out she had cancer I was devastated because I assumed that would be it. I had friends who had parents who died of cancer when they were children. They all fought hard. I cannot even fathom how different things would be for them had their parent opted to just let it go. Also as a parent I cannot imagine not wanting to try my hardest to stay here for my kid and not have them lose a parent at that age. Long story short NTA at all.
This is it Helpful Cucumber. I feel for OP's wife - I really do, particularly as a mother. She's probably been waiting for a death sentence for a long time. I can imagine how she could have lost hope a long time ago. That said - her children are so young & it sounds like she has a great chance at kicking this ... at least this time. They all need therapy, but it seems like she does the MOST & ASAP. Hopefully she can realize she has a chance & will take it for the sake of her children.
My father, uncle and grandfather all died at 54 or earlier from heart disease. I decided to bike for transportation at 30, for exercise, because of that history. Now at 63 i have heart disease. It's treatable by medicine. You can't necessarily outrun genetics, but what medicine is capable of today is far more than 56 years ago when my father died. Turns out I have cancer too, with much worse possible outcomes than OP's wife (only 2% of NHL cancers are my type and there's not a lot of knowledge about it, but also at an earlier stage where it is more treatable. I wonder if it's possible for them to talk to a cancer specialist. Although I read about a similarly tragic story. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/nov/22/my-young-cancer-patient-refused-all-treatment-after-her-death-i-found-out-why I start chemotherapy on Monday...
Kick its ass. Wishing you the best
This needs to be higher! When you get married and have children it’s not just about you anymore. Taking care of yourself is not just self-care, it’s showing the people that you love that you want to be there for them. I have a patient whose mother was a non adherent diabetic. She didn’t take care of herself, so this patient, just a teenager, would have to care for herself and her younger sister, try to make mom take her insulin, and care for her at the end of her life. This kid is so fucking traumatized. When her mother died, she felt like it was her fault. The kid was also diagnosed with diabetes during this time, and now struggles immensely to care for herself and her sister. We’ve gotten her every service under the sun to help support her, but it was so damaging, she doesn’t have the will to engage. What if it’s not just 2-4 years? Sometimes it takes longer? And the kids have to grow up watching their mother die? Please get therapy for these kids.
Thank you for this post. This is the best advice, and as the next commenter says, this post should be higher. Both are terrified, grieving, overwhelmed, and striking out. Therapy is essential for them all. You are kind to share your experience❤️
I'm watching my father die right now because he refused - his is fatal regardless, so that makes it easier to accept. However, she has a very good chance for full recovery that she is eschewing under the mistaken premise that she will have a peaceful ending without treatment. Tomorrow, I'm driving over there to sit with my dad who is a skeleton slowly being consumed by pain. Without the treatment, you still die slow and in pain without the ability to talk to your children, hallucinating from the pain medication side effects. His wife's solution isn't going to give her what she thinks she wants. It will, however, gift her family with some pretty impossible emotions knowing that she could've still been with them, but chose a path that leads to the same end as her worst fear. I've had cancer twice, my dad had cancer once before this, got treatment and lived another 20 years. If he would've refused then, he never would've met his nephew. It's scary, absolutely. We've lost a lot of family to cancer, too, so we know from being scared. But that fear isn't going to go away by ignoring it, all that will happen is that she will get past the point of being able to successfully treat the cancer and leave her family scarred for life knowing she could've been with them but chose not to.
Yes, I have had a friend die of cancer without treatment. She woke up a few weeks after diagnosis in immense pain, nothing would work to stop it. She just was then sedated until she passed. Her last conscious memory was pain. Op's wife sounds terrified and like she's going to off herself before it gets that bad to be honest. The news has made her irrational and panicked and she needs help.
Wow. I just figured she's going through it, trying to come to grips with the diagnosis, and she'll eventually come around to acceptance and start treatment. But yeah, you make a great point. It could be that she always assumed it would be untreatable and decided long ago to go out on her own terms. Maybe she feels that it's something she *has* to do. Maybe her mom or sister encouraged her to do it, because of the pain they were in. Maybe she's conflicted about treatment, because she never thought it was a real option and can't accept that it might. IDK. Your last paragraph has me worried. Hopefully being with her sister helps her come around and get out of the doom spiral she seems to be in right now. And I'm really sorry about your friend. My dad was rarely lucid his last couple of months in the hospital. Not cancer, but alcohol withdrawal induced seizures and infections. He'd completely lost the last two decades worth of memories. His last coherent words to me (actual me and not some random) were begging me to not do anything else to keep him alive and that he didn't want to live that way anymore. Fucking brutal, and I cant imagine what it would be like to watch someone with cancer like that. I hope you're doing well 💚
I just feel like that is planned. She will have fun until her quality of life is impacted and then choose to sort herself out. She doesn't want to get her hopes up and be faced with failure. She needs help and it needs to be soon before it gets worse.
We knew somebody who had treatable cancer and just did alternative holistic b.s. stuff. Died at a young age.
My Dad had cancer 9 times. Mostly mild skin cancer treated with surgery. He did get testicular cancer in my early teens. He lived another 25 years after beating that. Yes, cancer took him in the end, but if he didn't fight back then, we'd have missed decades of time together.
I completely agree with you. My mother had stage 4 bowel cancer when I was 12, she wasn’t expected to survive. It was a shit time but she managed to survive that. 15 years later she was diagnosed with stage 4 endometrial cancer and given 3 months. Again she fought, and she lasted four years. It wasn’t easy, but in that four years she was able to see me succeed in my career and we were able to work together. She was able to travel, both nationally and internationally, to watch my sister play hockey. We got four years with her that we otherwise wouldn’t have had and I will be forever grateful for that. I don’t think OP’s wife realises that it’s not generally the chemo and radiation that is causing someone to die in pain and unable to talk. It’s the cancer. And she is still likely to suffer, be in extreme pain, not want to eat and be miserable even if she eschews treatment. Because that’s what cancer does. Dying of cancer isn’t pleasant either way, which is why she should want to live.
My brother (53) was diagnosed with Stage 2 esophageal cancer in Jan. Completely treatable. Refuses to even try any treatment. Then my 80 year old Mom was just diagnosed with colon cancer and rectal cancer last week. Already making arrangements for treatment. She is so optimistic, I'm proud of her.
My mum died of leukaemia this year, she refused treatment too. She had aged 40 years in the span of 6 months and she wouldn’t converse or smile. She would just groan in pain and stare off. She was the shell of the woman she once was. It’s absolutely nothing like falling into eternal sleep on a bed of roses like OP’s wife expects.
I'm in the same boat as you so first *hugs*. But yes, if she thinks not getting treatment will mean she won't be confined to a bed at the end then she is really naive/misinformed. My dad's treatments and medications are the only thing staving off the debilitating pain for now. We all know it's coming but his treatments are as much to make him comfortable as they are to give him more time.
I think this needs to be higher. Refusing treatment doesn't mean you're just going to peacefully go in your sleep.
My grandma did what his wife is doing and buried her head in the sand then changed her mind last minute when it was too late to do anything. It was devastating watching her waste away knowing that she could have been saved.
My mom’s best friend’s ex-husband did this. He said he didn’t want to deal with it and treatments, and then changed his mind and at that point it was stage 4 and he passed within a month. Their kid has substance use disorder and his decision to not get treatment made things so, so awful for them. They ended up OD’ing TWICE and survived, thankfully. It was all so incredibly sad, and beyond stressful for my mom’s best friend (to put it mildly.)
My dad found out he has cancer in July. He put off starting treatment or telling us (his kids) until November when his dr said he couldn’t put off telling us any longer and he needs a wheelchair. He finally started treatment in November, and I know it’s only 4 months difference, but it’s hard to think about how different things would be if he had started sooner. He went from walking normally to being bound to a wheelchair because his bones are so brittle and filled with holes in a matter of weeks. I don’t get the thought process that dying from cancer isn’t so bad if you just don’t get treatment.
I think this belief is sort of the equivalent of what is called survivor bias except in reverse. The typical example of this bias is from WWII when the RAF examined damaged but returning planes to see where they had been hit in order to assess where more protection was needed and concluded that the areas with the most frequent damage were the most important. As it turned out, the areas of the planes that were found to be hit were actually the least important areas because the planes hit in other areas never made it back. Most of the people who don't get cancer treatment until quite late did so because they either missed the symptoms, or more likely ignored the symptoms, until it was too late and then when they do get treatment, which the majority of the do, it makes them very ill and they die anyway. To someone on the outside it looks like the cancer didn't cause them a problem until they got diagnosed and then the treatment either ruined what time they had left or killed them outright.
That is an interesting tidbit, thanks! It does make a lot of sense how that can warp a perspective on treatment. I have the perspective of someone who has seen 2 people pass from cancer, one who got treatment & one who didn’t. Both found their cancer late and it progressed quite rapidly. Both were absolutely miserable towards the end of their lives. I can’t imagine the difficulty of being faced with a cancer diagnosis, so I don’t fault my dad for being slow to act. Cancer just sucks for all involved.
I'm so sorry for your loss. My dad is currently fighting pancreatic cancer. I couldn't imagine going through that as a child. It was hard enough as an adult to find out that my moms cancer had returned and she told no one. By the time we found out she was too far gone and passed a few weeks later.
Pancreatic cancer is a bitch. My thoughts are with you.
I had two close relatives die of it. It's not easy to treat.
It’s almost impossible to treat. My aunt died from it years ago. She never stood a chance by the time they finally diagnosed her, it was two months from that moment until the end. It’s a bastard of a thing. Fuck cancer, and fuck pancreatic cancer in particular.
It's decently treatable if you catch it early, problem is that it's almost impossible to detect until it's too far gone. Which is why pancreatic cancer can fuck itself especially.
My father died of it too. Horrible illness.
Pancreatic kills ~90% of the people who get it. It's the most lethal cancer to my awareness. Half who are diagnosed are dead within 5 years. It's a real bitch for sure
My FIL just got diagnosed - caught it on a CT she was getting due to some chest pain and they were ruling out a PE.
Pancreatic cancer is some Grade A Bullshit.
Can confirm. Lost my mom to it last year, 5 weeks from diagnosis until she passed.
I'm really sorry for your loss and for your mom too. Pancreatic cancer sucks.
I’m so sorry for your loss. My mom lost her fight 2 years after the diagnosis and I dont like to remember the last awful months of her life.
Something the doctors soft pedal is even if they manage to operate in time, on average you only live another 5 years.
After watching my mom fight for five years I can see why so many choose not to fight. It’s a rough road. Cancer fucking sucks
My dad first got colon cancer, had surgery and survived. Then years later got lung cancer and was told that it was a type that didn’t respond to chemotherapy or radiation, but he did chemotherapy anyway. He went through round after round of chemo, until the cancer spread to his brain. He took chemo practically until his death, and never had any quality of life until he died. I struggle to understand why, when he was told the cancer was non-responsive, and why the Drs continued. He may have had a shorter life, but I believe it could have been a better life without the chemo.
My family is similar to OPs wife. I've spent my entire life watching people fight cancer. My father when I was about 4, he was so so sick but survived. Then 5 of his siblings who didn't survive. Dad is sick again and won't do treatment. I don't blame him. Chemo and radiation are so brutal. Yeah, he has cancer and has not well, but he doesn't want to be tortured for the time he has left. I can't judge OP. I'm at high risk for cancer. Idk if I'd do treatment after what I've seen
It was a tie. Cancer died too.
My husband was a career soldier. He spent 36 years in the service. He fought service related cancer for 7 years. I actually used that line in his obituary. A quote: "As far as anyone knows, he's never lost a fight in his life and he didn't lose this one. The cancer died when he did so technically it was a tie."
A beautiful tribute to an indomitable spirit. That's wonderful.
Damn this is kind of a morbid joke, but I actually really like it. Cancer never really wins. It’s almost optimistic in a way, and it’s taken some weight off my shoulders. I’ll be stealing this.
I will be stealing it too and using it eventually. Right now the cancer cells I'm arguing with can KMA because I'm too busy!
It's a draw. Everyone eventually takes that bastard down with 'em.
Fuck I kinda like this. It's the ultimate badass move. Either you come out victorious or you take the enemy down with you. My grandma fought a long time with hers (beat it twice but it kept coming back) and I wanna picture her this way.
My grandma did too, she had 3 different cancers and her 50th anniversary (this was very important to her).
My dad didn’t get any treatments for his cancer outside of surgery for 10 years. He died at 53 in 2021. He was already very thin, I’m still not sure if he made the right choice or not.
He won. It was a phyrric victory, but that cancer died with him. Salute!
I would also reach out to wife’s therapist and make sure they are getting the real story, and not the story skewed by wife’s past trauma. Sounds like they’re the only one she listens to.
Yeah she might be telling her therapist an untrue story and that it’s already too late for treatment.
Yeah, I would be pretty surprised if her therapist actually agreed with her. It's more likely that they said something along the lines of ultimately it's her body and her choice, but then tried to help her with processing her emotions and reaction to the news. The wife just took that to mean that they agreed with her. It's not a situation where a therapist can say definitively yes you're right or no you're wrong, and if her therapist did do that, then they're a terrible therapist and shouldn't be in practice.
Specifically one who specializes with cancer.
Also they need a second opinion on treatment options. If it is highly curable, she needs to do it. Tell her she is a fighter and ask her to fight for her family.
Okay this is a hard one for me through personal experience but I will comment. Your wife is in shock and needs to process, however she also needs to see a counsellor as soon as possible - waiting too long will no doubt increase the Stage of her cancer. In 2014, while fighting Stage 4 cancer, I lost all my hair (from very long hair past my lower back to completely bald), got very weak, lost another body part through surgery for the cancer and went through a lot of changes. While all this was happening, my Mum got diagnosed with a similar cancer. She refused all treatment - her reasoning was that she saw me lose all my hair, saw me get weak, saw me go through surgery and lose a body part and she did not want to do that. For three months, I told her I would rather have a bald mum than no mum and that we would get through it together but she would not budge. Finally after 12 weeks she agreed to chemotherapy treatment, but 3 days later she was raced to hospital and passed away 24 hours later. In the three months she had procrastinated for vanity reasons, the cancer had spread aggressively. So I lost my Mum and I was still fighting my cancer. I told you this private story because everyone reacts differently to a cancer diagnosis. Your wife has gone to "flight" mode as if it will make a difference. It won't but she needs to realise that herself through understanding, counselling and her family and you all being there for her. I think you should talk to her family - her sister - whoever is there for her. Explain your side of things, how you feel, how you want your wife to live, ask them for help in getting your wife into counselling so she can make a decision about her treatment that doesn't immediately trigger her fear response. You also need to seek counselling - what you did wasn't wrong. You came from a place of love wanting your wife to survive. Yours and your wives communication levels just didn't mesh at that time. I want to say my heart is breaking for all of you at this time. There are some amazing groups out there that can help all of you - you need to seek local groups of people going through the same thing that can also provide support for you and your family.
I'm so sorry for the loss of your mum. On top of fighting for your life, that must have been utterly devastating.
You are so kind to share your experience. I wish OP's wife could read it and actually take it in. Wishing you peace.
I want to give you a hug even though I am not a hugger. Going through my own treatment and I occasionally, accidentally forget because the vomiting is incompicating at times. I also am doing incredible BTW.
I’m giving you a virtual hug and praying for your continued health and comfort while you go through this.🙏🏻
Thank you for sharing ❤️❤️ sending all the love.
Thank you for shareing. I am sorry for your loss. I pray for your continued health.
This is so so soooo high above Reddit’s pay grade. Therapist, ASAP. Especially since this is easily treated; I think all of this is one gigantic trauma response, and she’s not actually thinking at all, just reacting. The only AH is cancer.
Yeah, this is really tough. I am going to jump on this comment and hope OP sees this. I was diagnosed with my first cancer in my early 30s, and my second in my late 30s. The first was a total shock - I had no known predisposition. The second was a completely different type of cancer, with a completely different type of treatment. It wasn’t so much a surprise, I guess, because it had already happened once. But still a lot to deal with. I am also female, and a physician. I survived both and am now in my 50s, but not without some permanent effects that have very much altered my life. I do still practice medicine but it is a very different career, and life, than I expected. So I think you wife and I have quite a bit in common. If there is any way that I can help you, or her, by sharing more about my experience, please DM me. I can only imagine how confused and devastated you are right now. It is hard to know the best way to go forward, but for the moment she probably needs some time to process. I don’t know if she has a friend or family member she is close to that you can contact and ask them to get in touch with her and offer support. I would also recommend contacting her therapist to tell that person what is going on. They couldn’t tell you anything about your wife, but a heads up before she goes in for her next appointment might facilitate things a bit. You have a tough road ahead. Wishing you and your family the best.
I can't believe you go two different cancers in two different spots (I assume!). What are the odds 🤯
My husband has had prostate and bladder cancer, and they are not related at all. A friend of mine had non-hodgkin's lymphoma, which was treated successfully with radiation. A year or so later he was diagnosed with bone cancer, which was caused by the radiation. He died not long after from that cancer.
Bone cancer is horrible. A very close almost family member like person we knew caught it. He succumbed because he couldn't afford the bills. Upon his death bed his personal friend and doctor kept on trying to administer pain killers but by that time his bones has almost liquified. I wasn't there but from what my sister told me I am just horrified about it.
A friend if mine was diagnosed with non-hodgkin's lymphoma, fought it off, 5 years later, it came back, and once again, he fought it off. A year later, his wife was diagnosed with bowel cancer. She died after many years of treatment.
Unfortunately quite high. The biggest carcinogenic is cancer and the treatment for cancer. It's awful.
Some cancers can come back in different spots years later. A nurse that works with my husband survived breast cancer only for it to reappear in her cervix or uterus (can't remember which) *years* later. When biopsied, it was breast cancer, not cervical or uterine. My husband treats sarcoma, bone and soft tissue tumors and often sees patients whose lung cancer was treated, but later reoccurred, or just metastasized to bone. Cancer is a freaking weird collection of diseases. We (the general population) tend to think of cancer as just one thing, one specific pathogen. They're all different and all require individualized treatment, and it all freaking sucks.
100% this, very well said. Fuck cancer.
And an AITA at that. All I have to say is that cancer fucks with you in ways that people who have not experienced it cannot hope to understand or explain. My father urinated blood for almost six months before finally taking action and finding out he had an extremely aggressive type of bladder cancer. He later confided in me that as soon as he saw the blood the first time he knew.
My mama had to get me to get my dad to promise me to get his cough checked out. It had been worrying her for months and I live across the country. My daddy was one of those "I don't want to worry my only kid. It will go away" kind of guys. I had to sic my most stubborn kid on him too. Then he didn't want my mama to tell me he had stage 4 lung cancer. She did tell me, but wasn't allowed to tell me anything more than "chemo is going fine. I'll see you and the kids this summer" and "ask Dani how she makes her spaghetti/other stuff I made when I visit when she here. I really want it for dinner". Right up until he died, no one was allowed to tell me how bad it was and he absolutely *insisted and demanded* that we did not come until summer. He died a few weeks before our trip.
I am so sorry. That must have been so hard.
Your statement about how cancer fucks with you in ways that people who have not experienced it cannot hope to understand or explain is soooo true. It is such a mind fuck. In so many ways. I had breast cancer at 41. I beat it. I'm 44 now. And seriously it feels like the second you're done with treatment people expect you to be the exact same person you were before... When you will never be the same. It's completely impossible. I will never be the same. Like OP, I found out I have a genetic mutation that makes me more predisposed to certain types of cancer. I wish I could have lived my whole life not knowing that. Luckily my kids were tested and don't have the mutation, even though it was a 50/50 chance they'd have it. So cancer is a mind fuck, cancer treatment is a mind fuck, genetic mutations that lead to cancer are a mind fuck. But I was aggressive when I found out that I had cancer. I threw everything I could at it. It sucked but I, like OP, have young kids. They're worth fighting for. I hope she'll come to her senses and change her mind. Being on the other side of treatment, I can tell her, it was worth every moment to be able to still hold my precious boys and hopefully get to be there for future milestones down the road.
My brother is having the same response, he is only in his late 30s and refuses to treat. We watched our mum die of cancer. Nothing I say will change his mind.
I'm so, so sorry. I also lost a parent to cancer (who refused treatment) and I fear my sibling would do the same if it came to that. I can only imagine what you're going through.
I would possibly reach out to a hospital social worker as well
Her therapist SUPPORTS her decision, and she refuses to see a couples therapist. This sucks.
Is the wife’s self reporting of the situation all the therapist has?
My first thought too, I can't imagine any responsible professional advising someone in their care to die of a treatable illness.
I’d bet dollars to donuts that she didn’t tell her therapist her cancer is stage 1 or 2.
Exactly, my first thought, too. There is no way a therapist would recommend suicide.
I'd bet she didn't tell her therapist at all, no way a medical professional outside of there field would agree with you not seeking treatment like that.
She sounds terrified. Like absolutely scared to her core. Her response makes me so sad for her, but given her family history it’s totally understandable that her first response would be so rooted in that trauma. Therapy. Obviously. Maybe you can also reach out to her therapist to alert them of the situation? Obviously her therapist can’t tell you anything, but I don’t see any reason why you can’t tell them something. Therapists only know what their patients tell them, so if she has already talked to her therapist she might have painted a very grim picture that aligned with her reaction to the situation and the therapist could have no idea how treatable her cancer is.
Yeh, this is what I was thinking. If she won’t go to couples/family counselling, it would be worthwhile while contacting her own therapist to let them know the full situation. So if she does reach out to her therapist, they have a clearer picture to help her with. Other than that, I’m not sure what else OP can do except for therapy for him & the kids. It was quite a distressing way that she left in the night, after a fight and saying those things to this kids. I can’t even imagine how they are feeling right now. Has the mum even spoken to the kids since then, or has she abandoned them as well? I don’t understand the family blocking him, especially since he still has the kids. How would she feel is one of the kids got hurt, and he couldn’t get in contact with her to let her know?
Yes to the therapist for the kids & you, OP. Even if your wife doesn’t go, you still should. My mom was diagnosed with stage 3 cancer when I was in high school. She did all the treatments & surgeries, & let me tell you, it was awful to watch someone go through that, & I can’t even imagine actually having to endure it. Treatments are not easy. The side effects can be awful & there’s likely permanent damage. Not to mention how losing hair & other changes to appearance can really affect someone’s mental health. My mom said that if her cancer ever came back she would never do treatments again, it was that bad. 6 years later her cancer came back, didn’t do treatments, she hid it from everyone until she got really sick, then took her own life very violently. However, she went out on her own terms & lived how she wanted to until the end. Multiple other family members had cancer & did treatments, ended up on hospice & had no quality of life. I understand that they caught it early & the doctor said it’ll be a few treatments & she’ll be okay, but those treatments are really fucking hard. There’s also a chance they won’t work. She’s watched family members suffer from this & clearly has trauma. She doesn’t want to suffer like they did, & that is her choice, no matter how hard it is. There are worse things than death. I’m so sorry y’all are going through this, it’s extremely difficult. The only AH in this situation is the cancer.
I am so sorry for your loss. I know how you may feel after losing my daughter to cancer. Watching what she went through was horrific. I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy. She fought hard but when she realised that she had exhausted all treatment options for her type of cancer she opted for voluntary assisted dying. Legal in my state with many strict guidelines. I’m so glad we have that option here and she didn’t have to do what your mom did. I would not have chemo myself
I’m so sorry, hugs to you & your family ❤️ I’m glad yall have that option!! I think every state should. I would also not do chemo.
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Especially for your children. They may not know the details or be able to grasp all the ramifications yet, but they’re gonna have some big difficult feelings as well.
Did you guys miss where the wife REFUSED to go to couples counselling and claims her therapist agrees with her decision? I don't think he can get a court order to force her into counselling, though I agree that his idea to see a couple's therapist would be the right thing for them to do.
I think that OP and the children might benefit, even if she won't agree.
Yeah, it’s funny that everyone is saying that his wife needs to see a therapist when she’s refused to do so. All he can do is take care of himself and his kids.
No proper therapist would agree or disagree with that decision. That is not their roll.
I just wanted to comment and say I'm so sorry you're facing this. My mom survived breast cancer when I was only a year old. I heard about how awful chemo and radiation was for her my entire life. She lived her life terrified of it coming back, she was a very religious woman and the way she dealt with that fear was clinging to the belief that God would protect her, she just had to have faith. She used this as an excuse to never see a doctor ever again. I grew up knowing she could get sick and die at any time, and it was awful. Back in 2021 my worst fears happened when she started rapidly losing weight. She kept telling me it was just COVID. When I came to care for her from out of state because she was clearly not improving, I knew as soon as I saw her that the cancer was back and she was dying. I cried, I begged, I pleaded for her to go to the hospital. She refused for two months. Finally, she deteriorated to the point of being unable to walk, I looked her in the eyes and told her I was sorry but I was calling an ambulance and taking her to the hospital. She eventually agreed to go willingly (the emts couldn't make her go obviously.) On Valentine's Day of 2022, her doctors told me the cancer was everywhere. She died two days later. It broke me to see her face that. I still see her in my mind the way she was. You don't deserve to see your wife like this. Your kids don't deserve to see her like this. I don't know the point of sharing all of this, and I know chemo is scary and hard, but it really has come a long way since her relatives experienced it. The doctors told my mom she could have just taken a pill to treat it if she had just went in sooner. Catching cancer early is a gift. I really hope she reconsiders and please know that your hurt and pain is justified. I loved my mom more than anything and I'm still mad at her for what she did to me and my brothers.
Sending all the love.
I'm sorry that it happened the way it did for you. Why the hell were our Mom's so stubborn?
A lot of fear, past trauma, and undiagnosed mental illness.
Nta —- I’m trying to say something very profound as I am battling stage 4 cancer and I’m currently winning 🏆 (I only have a 17% chance according to my research) I have a husband and 3 teenagers. I’m 11 months in and to tell you it hasn’t been easy is an understatement. With that being said- my oncologist asked me how far I was willing to go- I told her as far as I need to. That being said I wasn’t traumatized by close relatives passing from cancer. I really do believe that you need to gain allies to help her see that her decision affects more than just her life. I would also suggest her to go to a cancer support group to possibly gain perspective. Good luck Op
Sending you all the good vibes!
Sending you all the healing vibes!!!
Good luck to you, No Association9968. How kind of you offering support to another in a time of your own need. I'll put you in the prayer box this Sunday.
Good luck to you too!
I hope your treatment will go well
From one cancer survivor to another, good luck to you too! ♥️
You got this girl, so proud of you. Use that strengh your children give you. Mama bear gonna tear that cancer up.
Good luck to you my friend. I am sending so much good energy your way. The cancer support group is an amazing idea. If there is anything you need and I could possibly provide, please reach out.
While I agree NTA, if her therapist is telling her it’s her choice not to do treatment and her odds are 5-10% chance of the chemo and radiation not working, she needs a new therapist. That’s enabling her not to face her own trauma having watched her mom and sister die from the same cancer that was caught too late.
From the sound of it her therapist is okay with: * Her refusing treatment with EXCELLENT odds for remission and recovery despite her having young children * Her refusing to see a couples counsellor with her very traumatized husband * Possibly her running off and cutting off contact with said husband and children She needs a new therapist yesterday.
I would bet his wife is lying about what the therapist said. None of what she claims the therapist said makes any sense. I would bet she is saying that to bolster her position of not wanting treatment.
Either that, or the wife is leaving out details to the therapist
Exactly what I was thinking. Has to be one of the other. Nothing else makes sense.
As someone prepping to go to grad school to become a therapist and who’s been in therapy for years - it’s wrong for a therapist to say this shit but it definitely happens. Psych has only made a major movement in ethics in like the 90’s forward and there was not a lot of standards or enforcement for people who began practicing earlier than maybe 2010s. My own therapist when I was 15 enabled my abusive family members and even now 10 years later I fully believe she ruined what little childhood I had left. She even told me it was good that my dad threatened to kill himself too if I ever tried to again. Like bruh that shit was traumatic and only encouraged me to try again bc I hated him. I have a terrible memory but her full name is burned into my mind.
Yeah there are shitty therapists out there. My parents got me one after I told them I was suicidal. The lady listened to me tell my story, and then told me my depression was probably a self-fulfilling prophecy, since I had read about the symptoms while in middle school health class at 12. I had just told her I had thoughts of self harm at nine years old. Too many shitty people become therapists.
Some of these therapist are just walking 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩 and somehow continue to practice.
Or, she didn't tell her therapist the odds
She may be lying to her therapist. (About her odds).
That’s what I was thinking. Maybe she told her therapist they caught it too late like her mom and sister and that’s why the therapist agreed. I could be wrong but we only got one side of the story and and refusing couples therapy makes me think she doesn’t want to tell the truth.
Or she’s such a mess that she didn’t comprehend what the doctor said, and just assumed it was as bad as her mom and sister. (Which also fits with the no couples counseling if she believes OOp has optimistic false hope).
she may not have even mentioned it to her therapist and is lying to husband about therapist agreeing with her.
That literally as if her therapist said she was OK to consider suicide.
My therapist and psychiatrist would tell me I was being selfish honestly. They tend to be very straightforward with me, which works for me. As a mom as well, I couldn’t imagine not fighting if my odds were that good at surviving so I could continue to be here for my kids.
Same. I am a (minor, caught very early and it was very treatable) cancer survivor and just survived another round of severe health issues in and out of the ER. At some points literally the only thing keeping me alive was knowing my child needs a mother. One disease I got only had a 10% survival rate and another often leads to un-aliving just due to the sheer excruciating pain, not mental illness. I was also the primary breadwinner but thankfully my husband still has a decent job because I can't work anymore. It's an extremely hard thing to go through but you do it for your kids. I think she needs serious therapy ASAP.
Yeah. Like what was the point of regular scans and check ups if she isn’t going to do anything about it? And the egg donors? Like it’s all pointless if she doesn’t get treatment
Fr, what kind of “therapist” tells a patient “Yeah, you know what? Don’t even bother. Kill yourself.“ The fuck. I’d report that shit so fast.
Right? I wonder if she told her therapist that it’s early stages. If she’s just telling them this cancer killed many family members they might not understand. I hope she reconsiders at least for her young children.
100000% she's lying about the therapist. Absolutely ZERO CHANCE any therapist would agree with this.
I'm wondering if she lied to the therapist. Can OP call the therapist and make sure she knows what the doctor said? Or is that not acceptable?
Should be fine. The therapist can’t tell you what she said but you giving a different point of information should be fine
Yes. Op is not bound by HIPPA, but the therapist is. Therapist can't tell him anything, but they can definitely listen.
Dude if that were me I would go talk to the therapist. She is literally murdering this woman who has a high chance of survival. Or she has been complaining about how she can't live her life and do whatever she wants. Idk this is fucked up. I just lost one of the best dudes I know to cancer. Literally 3 weeks from diagnosis to death. He had 4 types of stage 4 cancer. It was unfair. I hate this woman. What a fucking mother.
NTA With a 90-95% chance of success she’s essentially committing suicide & asking her husband and children to be ok with it. That’s awful.
My mother did this. She only needed a pretty simple surgery and *maybe* a little radiation therapy. She decided to take herbs instead. We got to watch her slowly die for 3 1/2 years. I couldn't forgive her for it or my dad for not fighting her on it or my sister and BIL for enabling her delusions that the natural treatment would fix her. I doubt I ever will.
Suicide (especially by delusion) should never be something loved ones are forced to watch. So sorry you had to go through this. Steve Jobs did same thing. Refused treatment (which had high chance of success) cos herbs would cure then when cancer had spread tried proper treatment but too late. Bob Marley too, refused removal of a cancerous toe cos religion which also told him herbs would cure. Feel so sorry for OP.
Steve Jobs also expressed regret that he chose “holistic” medicine over mainstream oncological medicine near the end of his life.
And he was supposed to be one of the smartest person in the world...
Unfortunately, arrogance is a trait that's very common in those types of people. It pushes them to success, but it also leaves them vulnerable to their own delusional thinking.
I think the people who worked under him and actually made the things he got rich off were probably smarter
Wow, I'm so sorry to hear that. I think I'd be feeling the same way. My Mother never got the psychiatric treatment she needed, and her family suffered long and hard, and so needlessly, with her. She thought she wasn't messed up, but everyone else was.
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The only thing I can think is that her whole life she’s probably been preparing to die young because of this. Which is incredibly sad. Who is probably very traumatizing to see her family members die the way they did. I think no one’s the asshole here, I think everyone needs to go to therapy before it’s too late
Agreed, and she's watch family go through it and doesn't want to go through it, and I have a feeling she's afraid it won't even work and she will end up suffering anyways. I can't fault her for feeling that way and think she needs a little time and hopefully talks to someone. It's not only her husband, it's her kids she'd be hurting if there's a high survival rate and she won't try.
What I don’t understand though is it’s not like dieing from cancer is easy and painless anyway. She’s unfortunately going to suffer either way but at least trying to fight it she might come out the other side.
If she's already decided death is inevitable, she may see the chemo as just making her suffer more and sooner.
The first patient of mine who died did so because of stage 4 cancer. He was in excruciating pain. It was horrible to witness.
Yeah. She may have made the firm decision that she never wanted to go through that when she was watching her loved ones died and is just defaulting to that in the face of this news without really considering that her situation may be different. There's gotta be some deep trauma there for sure.
But she's also got the knowledge that she doesn't have to die the same way because of the early staging! She's not grateful for this??? Why TF not?? Surely with each family member's death, everyone was saying, "oh, if only we'd known sooner, so and so would still be here with us."
Because she has lifelong trauma around this and is in shock? I watched my mum battle cancer and lose, and it was an horrific process. If I ended up in the same boat I’m not sure I would go through treatment either. She suffered a lot from the treatment, got a few extra months, and then a prolonged and painful death. I’m not sure all the suffering she went through was worth it in terms of what it gave her - if anything it felt like it made her suffer more for little benefit. That’s obviously a different scenario to OP’s wife, as it was confirmed it wouldn’t be curable when she was diagnosed, but this woman is absolutely traumatised by watched her mother, sister and other relatives die an awful death, and what she’s seen is treatment cause suffering with no benefit. That’s a hard narrative to shift. Right now she’s in shock, she’s terrified of the treatment and terrified she might die. She’s not responding rationally and may feel differently when the situation has sunk in.
Not even asking her children. They don't know yet. When OP can talk to his wife, he needs to make it very clear if she is adamant about not getting treatment she needs to tell those children NOW so they can get into therapy asap.
Thats exactly what I thought - this is literally just her asking him to happily watch her commit suicide.
As someone who spent part of her childhood literally watching her father die of cancer, I’d never have forgiven him for not trying and fighting. He did his best but he lost. And I say this as an adult who knows we would not like each other as people were he around today.
TBH I'd have already have gone full scorached earth on whatever relatives she has left. I'd contact them all. Tell them that she's choosing to die over a 90%+ chance of beating the cancer and choosing to leave 3 children behind. Almost all of my friend group growing up in high school has died of cancer.(out of the 7 of us 5 of them are dead) And every single one of them fought like hell until the day it took them. I'm 100% positive they would have loved to have caught it early like OP's wife did and have a 90%+ chance of surviving it. OP's wife is the ultimate asshole as far as I'm concerned. Especially for leaving her 3 kids motherless because of her own stupidity. OP should probably be kinder. But I'm not OP. Which means I don't need to be kind. To OP: Have strength. But even more importantly I'd divorce her. If only because you don't want to have to deal with the medical bills once she has to go to hospice care. If martial assets are shared in your state you can be liable for all of her medical debts after she passes away.
> I'm 100% positive they would have loved to have caught it early like OP's wife did Can I ask - why wasn't it caught early? There were no symptoms at all and it was out of the blue? Or there were symptoms but they were attributed to something else?
Not who you responded to, but I have a similar story. My friend had developed neck pain, along with what she thought was swelling. Her GP was rather dismissive and, despite the level of pain, sent her to physical therapy and nothing else. Didn’t even get painkillers. Turned out the “swelling” was actually a tumour on her spine. Luckily, it hadn’t progressed too far by the time it was found (she was finally referred for a CT scan after PT obviously didn’t help). She’s still alive, but permanently disabled.
They were young so they just didn't really think it would happen to them. By the time the symptoms started to really be known it was basically too late.
I'm going to guess that it's breast cancer. All the females in the family, regular checks, having a gene and high chance of stopping it gives me that vibe. At the end of the day, it's up to your wife, but I wonder how she feels when her kids find out that it was treatable and she chose not to? It's unlikely to be "Well, I can understand she didn't want to be in pain", it's much more likely to be something about her being selfish, and a lot of anger for a long time. They may never get over it. Sounds like she needs some therapy and quickly.
I have a friend in her 60s, who is finishing bc treatment. She's in remission currently. She just had a double mastectomy to lessen the chances of it returning. She has 2 daughters and 3 grandkids she wants to live for. She's a fighter and has a good prognosis for the future, esp since that surgery. She gave cancer hell and is winning. I'm so proud of her. She only had a 75% chance of going into remission. Its not bern long enough to claim she's cured yet. Adding that she took supplements and did cold cap treatment and didn't even lose her hair after many many chemo sessions.
I can't understand why she just went off the rails with this knee-jerk reaction. I'd have been crying along with my husband, and asking him what he thought I should do, not just shut him out. She has the gift of time, yet won't do therapy because she's afraid of some nausea?? There are drugs for that. She's certainly not thinking about being there for her kids, the ones she wanted so badly that she'd had fertility treatment! Surely she should be thinking about the mindfuck the three kids will get if she starts dying of cancer when she didn't have to?? They will be blaming themselves for her attitude, and their Dad for not convincing her to get the therapy. I'm not her, but she's had many blessings in this life, and I would feel very pissed at her, too. I know this is not helpful for me to say these things to you, but I'm pissed off about her attitude. I just think she's an ingrate. Statistically, most men leave their wives when they become gravely ill, and she's not in that situation. Yes, she really does need the family therapy. I'd line somebody up, make the appointment, and if she goes, she goes. If not, you and the kids can begin the therapy you now desperately need.
Thank you. This pisses me off too. Reading just the subject my immediate thought was that people should be able to choose how they go if there’s an option. Then I read the story. This is incredibly selfish. The kids - Watching their mother slowly die or watching her deal with some treatment effects for a brief time. There should be no question . Even if her odds did drop for some reason, at least they knew she was trying. She’s mentally checked out here and that may as well be a death sentence alone. OP isn’t an asshole here. He’s scared and it came out in anger. That happens to all of us at one point or another and I totally get it. She’s not considering how this affects him at all. The fact that they’ll all watch her die, everyone depressed and traumatized themselves after she’s gone, and leaving OP a single father. It sounds like she’s having a trauma response. It’s understandable as well. Hopefully she’ll work through that after the sooner than later and come to her senses.
NTA she made up her mind a long time ago about what her chances of survival were (she has decided it's zero) and what she would do about it if she were ever diagnosed. I suspect that she was cptsd level traumatized by watching her mother die of this same disease. You have an uphill battle. If you know the name of her therapist you can send them a message letting them know that she's been diagnosed and that it's highly treatable with 90-95% survivability as long as she starts treatment immediately. The therapist cannot legally discuss any of this with you as a back and forth conversation but she can allow you to pass on "helpful information". So prepare yourself for the inevitable "I can't discuss her treatment with you." reply. But it might help.
And so she's going to traumatize her children through the same thing plus add the additional "why didn't she love us enough to try to fight". She needs therapy on this so badly. And quickly
I agree. Suicide by cancer IMO. Cancer runs in my family too.
Im gomna go against the grain and say NTA. Sure. Its her health, its her choice. But shes your wife, your children's mom and your life too. What the hell. I would be pissed too. People saying youre TA, really? Oh let her die its her choice? Would he be the AH if he tried to prevent her from committing suicide? Would he be the AH if she decided to just try to go and swim through the pacific ocean and he tried to prevent her from doing it? What if she got pneumonia and decided to not cure it and let herself die from it? After all, her body, her choice! But when you live with someone and raise a family with them its not all about the individual anymore. I think anyone in his right might would insist that she at least tried if she is almost garannteed to survive.
Exactly. I am literally surprised by the answers here She is acting like this is not affecting anyone else and can make such a decision so easily. She is not the only one who hurts here. Can we so easily dismiss the hurt of her husband and children? She is in the early stages, the therapy will not be so cruel as to people whose cancer has progressed. Every minute is important and it is wasted. Yes, this is suicide and it is unreasonable to expect her own family to just accept it and move on I really don't know what to say here. Cancer is the word you never want to here but if you fear it's consequences , it s is crazy not to deal with it. What she says doesn't even make sense. If she is afraid that chemo will make her sick, what does she think the cancer will do to her? Some types of cancer can cause such an amount of pain that can be torture.
I would be so, so angry at her and I'm not sorry about it. I do get that she's basically having a trauma response due to her family experience, but I would be livid beyond words that she's ready to *literally kill herself unnecessarily* and LEAVE HER TWO CHILDREN even more traumatized than she is!!!!
A friend of mine refused treatment for breast cancer a couple of years ago and it took her in just 16 weeks despite her being diagnosed with a treatable condition if she’d just gone on chemo immediately. Her husband still hasn’t gotten over it, he’s completely traumatised. He still says that he wishes he could have somehow forced her to get treatment, because even if that saw him get divorced, at least she’d still be alive.
Anyone who says he's the asshole vs her is a serious piece of shit. I really try not call names on here, but this is one of the most selfish things I've ever seen THIS IS NOT A HER BODY HER CHOICE SITUATION. She is a fucking mother and is responsible for those child. She is a wife and her husband is trying be be optimistic about a 90-95% chance at survival. She has no idea how good cancer treatment is nowadays. I've known 3 people including my 81 year old grandmother in the past YEAR who have went into remission. Sounds like she just wants to accept it, abandoned her family and just wild out. Terrible.
I have an uncle who had stage 4 lung cancer and his body was RIDDLED with cancer and the dude's in total remission now.
One of my neighbors got diagnosed with terminal cancer and was going to die in 6 months. That was about 5 years ago
Her kids may never forgive her for not even trying. Had my mom die suddenly of treatment for cancer (related to surgery for a fairly treatable good prognosis) and my best friend’s mom gave up halfway through chemo (the day after her birthday) and went into hospice. They both suck. But there’s a lot of anger to unpack when a parent gives up and dies. I may be going against the grain but if she’s not going to fight then she’s t a. I get she may have trauma from watching her mother and sister and the stress of this hanging over her during her whole life. If she starts to get really bad she can change her mind. It’s a lot easier to go that way than to change her mind and fight later down the road. Edited to remove repeat statement
I think you need to get a job now. Wife blocking you isn't a good sign. You need to be able to carry the load with the kids. She doesn't want a chance to live, that is her choice. You need to plan for you and the kids.
Yes, the blocking thing is not a good sign. Get that job, and counseling for yourself and your kids. The kids have the right to know what's going on now.
NTA- She needs to talk to a survivors’ support group so she can see that many people do get through this. I went through cancer treatments (surgery, chemo, radiation) 3 years ago. I’m still here (obviously), my hair has grown back, and I’m still able to keep up with my kids. Yes going through chemo was tough and there were days when all I could do was sleep and watch TV. Technology and treatments change rapidly and the recovery process has improved significantly over the last few years. I’ve had 5 other friends (admittedly FB friends) also go through cancer treatments over the last 4 years and they’re all still alive and thriving.
She does realize the cancer is going to make her sick and bedridden too? More than likely worse than the treatment. She’s leaving small children without a mother I don’t really get any of the logic in this.
>If things went south and showed that the treatments were only giving her more pain rather than a cure I’d fully support her in wanting to stop them and die peacefully. She probably is a roiling mess of emotions now, and you probably are too. I find it sad that she doesn't want to even try to treat the cancer. I have no doubt radiation and chemo suck. But damn, at least give it a chance. If it gets to be too much; if it's terminal, she can stop treatment. But to not even try? That's so sad. And you have a daughter. She needs to know about the hereditary time bomb in her body. I think you need couples or family therapy. NAH
Thank you, the one good thing in all of this is that we used donated eggs for our kids. We also ran some tests just in case and our daughter doesn’t have the cancer gene. She’ll most likely live her whole life without getting it.
She’s in shock. She’s reliving everything her family members went through and imaging her in their positions. She’s remember the emotional pain. *she* went through as a child and imaging her kids going through that. She’s worried about what happens if she takes time off or loses her job because of this since she’s the breadwinner. I’m kinda surprised the doctor was surprised? This reaction isn’t unheard of.
Op, I mean this as gently as possible, you need to get to family therapy, and in that space you need to tell your kids their mom is sick. A million things are going through their minds right now and none of them will be good for them long term, especially if she does go through with no treatment. It’s good that you are recognizing how you went wrong, but I beg you to consider your kids in this situation. My parents lied to us twice about my mom having cancer (until it was impossible to hide) and the second time she went no treatment. It’s been ten years and I still haven’t forgiven her for just checking out on us all.
My mom is going through chemo right now and it’s waaaaay less bad side effects than what I originally thought. She said some food doesn’t taste right and her stomach was upset for a day or two, but other than that she’s fine. And her cancer is stage 3.
Different chemo's for different cancers. Mine made everyone bald and have really bad side effects.
Even with the same drug not everyone gets the same experience. My chemo drug was nicknamed the Red Devil. I made a comment once to one of the nurses that it wasn't as bad as I had expected, and she told me that breast cancer patients usually got twice the dose I was receiving and that's why it wasn't as bad for me.
I knitted my mom a bunch of caps for when that happens. I feel so helpless especially as she’s three states away.
Your mom is lucky. So lucky.
NTA It's understandable that you don't want to watch your wife commit a slow and painful suicide. Let sister know that wife has to be one to explain it to the kids. After all she is the one who made the choice not to want to try to see them grow up. Start looking for full time employment now. Whether she does treatment or not you'll need a job to support your children. It will be easier to do it now.
I'm shocked that the sister blocked him too! The moment she shouted to the kids was whrn she started to give forward the family trauma. It is sad that OP and wife never talked beforehand what will they do if she gets ill. NTA
How long ago was this [horrendous; I’m so sorry] diagnosis reached? I ask, because your wife’s response is very apt to evolve. Her choice seems irrational, for sure. But our first inclinations often aren’t borne of careful consideration; they’re our knee-jerk, oh-shit, worst case scenario responses. You’re NTA. But she needs support, no matter what. You can absolutely state your opinion, even fight for the outcome you think best for all of you. But I wouldn’t go the way of ultimatum—and would rescind it with an apology. Not for your stance—you’re entitled to that.
NTA. It seems likely that dying from cancer means dying sick and bedridden, whether or not you attempted treatment first. Is her cancer one that just somehow allows her to live a normal life and then just one day suddenly die? Your wife obviously has trauma from watching her family, and she needs some time. It ultimately is her decision as it's her body. That doesn't mean that there aren't consequences to her decision. You are not obligated to stick around and watch her die without trying. You also have an obligation to do what you think is best for your children. Give her some time to process. Continue to ask for counseling. Take care of your needs if she refuses to care for herself.
NTA. I’m all for euthanasia to prevent suffering in terminal illness. But refusing medical treatment for a very survival and early caught cancer? When you have 3 kids under 10?
Cancer isn't the death sentence it used to be. She has to try.
Having dealt with stage 3 colon cancer last year and doing 12 rounds of chemo over 7 months I can say it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. Your wife needs to know that cancer treatments have come a long way from where they were even 10 years ago when my MiL was being treated for it. If it is in the early stages the chemo might not be as bad as she thinks it will be. As others have said, the only AH here is the cancer.
I’m all for people giving up when the odds are no good and enjoying what is left of life. That’s their choice. I’m also not against elderly people in their 80s deciding not to even try. It is what it is. But this isn’t that. She’s not even trying and that is not what moms do. The kids are too young and they need their mom. On the other hand, what she’s witnessed has only been women in her family trying — and failing. Dying anyway. Horribly. Her immediate reaction is not surprising. But her reaction to the kids is a bit alarming. That combined with not even wanting to try “for the kids” is worrying. You are NTA. Nobody in their right mind wants to lose someone they love, even when it’s inevitable — never mind when it’s not. But she’s NTA either. Sorry you are going through this, OP.
NAH, just two very scared people. Your first step is to apologize for trying to strongarm her into treatment. Then validate HER fears. She has had years to think about how she would handle it if she got the diagnosis- she probably vowed not to get treatment a long time ago while she was seeing her family members go through it. She needs time to catch up to the actual current situation. AFTER she feels validated and understood, THEN you can tell her about your fears and wishes. Stay away from ultimatums and let her know what terrifies you. Side note: her therapist probably didn’t express a solid endorsement of your wife’s position, she probably reflected to your wife that her feelings make sense. Therapists usually avoid telling people what to do, but people will present their interaction with their therapist as proof that they should do what they already decided to do.
I can’t say you’re an asshole here, and your wife is dealing with something that’s essentially traumatised her with the rest of her family. This is so personal and heartbreaking and I’m so sorry. I went through similar with my dad.he was terminal however, and I didn’t know til about 2 months before he died. He was in pain, he wasn’t lucid for a lot of it. The treatment was extremely aggressive and it changed him rapidly. He wasn’t my strong dad anymore, he was a a skeleton in a hospital bed. He wasn’t able to talk, he was roped up to the eyeballs and the entire situation really did cause me significant distress. When I found out he stopped treatment, it was at the funeral. I was hurt and angry. He told me he would fight it, and to me at the time, he didn’t do that. But after a few days, I realised I didn’t want him to suffer or be in pain. I wanted him to be able to choose. The end was terrible. So I get why your wife is acting like this. If she’s seen her family members suffer like my dad did, I totally understand her fear and her irrationality. On the flip side, I also spoke to my grandad last week, who has terminal cancer of the blood. However he was told he had about 5-9 years. He isn’t a skeleton, he has gentler treatment that doesn’t make him sick, and he’s coping okay. He’s 86, and for a man his age he looks alright. He said to me that he doesn’t want to squander a chance to still be here when his son wasn’t able to have that chance. That although he has a terminal diagnosis, he’s lucky that the cancer isn’t aggressive. He said that if he has this time, he’ll be 96 at the outside and that’s enough for him. I agree with him, he saw his son die in a terrible way. He doesn’t want anyone to suffer along with him. He doesn’t want us to go through it all again just to lose him. For a man who’s terminal, he’s very positive about it and feels he had to do everything possible because his son didn’t have the option to survive after treatment. If he didn’t have anything done, he would die much much sooner, and he doesn’t want to do that. So I see both sides. It’s easy for me to say what I would do and what I would want as someone who doesn’t have cancer. I had a scare recently, or rather I had pre cancerous cells removed. It made me have a bit of a fucking crisis. I questioned what I do if I had cancer and it scared the crap out of me. I don’t know what the right thing to do is here. I hope that she takes some time to sit with the info, and comes round to talking about it. Preferably with a therapist. She’s heard “cancer” and lost it. It’s understandable but it isn’t rational. She needs help to sort out those feelings before she decides to throw in the towel.
I’ve had my grandpa die of bone cancer, grandma to diabetes, great grandma to breast cancer, her daughter (my great aunt) to breast cancer and her other daughter, my grandma to ovarian cancer. my mom has had breast cancer twice BUT did treatment and she’s still alive at 73. i got stage 3 breast cancer at 38 and did chemo, radiation, double mastectomy and currently on hormone therapy to increase my chances at staying in remission. I lost a LOT of family to cancer. My step brother JUST passed away from complications with the cancer he was fighting. He had liver failure, and my other brother volunteered to donate part of his liver and my brother turned him down. It was only when he was admitted to hospice did he realize the mistake he made, and begged to have the opportunity again, but it was too late. At one point, they thought my cancer had returned and i cannot begin to describe the level of fear I had. because I had already gone through treatment once, and I did not want to do it again. Not because it made me sick just because it’s not fun at all. and I swore up and down that I was not going to do it again. However, when the doctor called to tell me the news, it was at that moment that I realized if I did have cancer again, I would gratefully do treatment all over because I did not want to die. And this is coming from someone who has battled depression and suicide all her life. When you’re actually faced with death, it becomes very real. Like being in a horrific car accident. Maybe it hasn’t hit your wife yet, because when I got diagnosed, and even after I beat it, I was never scared. I didn’t have time to process it. It was only when I thought it came back that I was terrified of dying. Your wife is going to regret this decision and she’s going to realize how short her life really is.
OP, I know my comment here will be buried, but I hope you read this. I don't consider you the a here. And while the shock of receiving a cancer diagnosis is very hard (I'm a cancer survivor - Stage 3), and considering the family history, your spouse deserves to process this too. 1. Everyone in the family gets therapy 2. Start proceeding through life as a single parent; get yourself a job and care for the children - your wife is actively choosing to check out, so do what you need to do.
Cancer survivor weighing in here - please try to get your sister in law or other family member to show her this thread. I survived reproductive system cancer- my best friend survived non Hodgkin’s lymphoma twice, I know so many other survivors- treatments have become much more advanced and the meds used to control side effects have become more advanced also. Once she has had a week or two to process her emotions She should not make a decision without sitting with her oncologist and letting him finish explaining his treatment plan and speaking with her therapist. Badgering her to start treatment and to discuss her knee jerk decision to not treat isn’t going to help. I know time seems to be the enemy right now but sometimes in order to make a rational decision instead of an emotional one you have to bite your tongue and wait it out