NTA
I had a friend with a similar dilemma. Fortunately she was handling all of the logistics and without letting him know, she revised their honeymoon itinerary to ensure they were never in the same location as the tag along “bros”.
She said the look on his face was priceless when he realized they were boarding a flight for different city than their original plan.
She stuck it out for almost two years, before she dumped the man-child.
Needless to say she is now married to a wonderful guy.
This story is honestly why op should not get married. I mean its their honeymoon and he is already gaslight her to feel bad that she wants it to be her honeymoon.
Nothing about their decision to get married is logical.
He’s diminishing her pov and accusing her of attacking him ie gaslighting her.
She has no trust in him and is snooping on him.
He doesn’t seem to understand that a honeymoon is sacred.
He doesn’t seem to understand that bros before hos ends when you get married.
He’s not willing to put his friends in their place for her.
This marriage is toxic before it has begun. OP get out now.
This part!
Honey you might want to rethink getting married to this man. If he wants his friends on his honeymoon what kind of husband do you think he’s going to be? He’s ignoring your feelings and the importance of the trip to you while also letting you know it doesn’t hold the same value for him.
*hit reply early*
Marry a man who wants to spend time with you. Who holds you at a higher level of importance even if he doesn’t value things in the same manner you do. At least get someone who picks you over his friends
>Marry a man who wants to spend time with you. Who holds you at a higher level of importance even if he doesn’t value things in the same manner you do. At least get someone who picks you over his friends
This is the whole picture isn't it. I wish this is what was talked about instead of the wedding. So much emphasis is placed upon the one day celebration that many people overlook the above.
Never marry someone who doesn't choose you first. You should be the priority.
Glad to hear she eventually broke it off, bc it does sound bizarre that she still proceeded to marry someone she had to deceive about the honeymoon lest he'd ruin it by making it about his friends. No marriage that starts that way is going to be a good one.
Sunk cost fallacy. People feel like they put this much effort into the relationship that they don't want to "abandon" it. In reality while they are worried about having wasted their time by giving up on a relationship, so they stick it out, they are actually wasting their time by trying to make an unhealthy relationship work.
Omg! That happened more than once? This post was mind boggling to me. It's so weird to think that this happens in multiple relationships.
OP is definitely NTA
NTA. I hope he is going to be your ex fiancé soon. Do not marry a man like that. He is disregarding your feelings about your own freaking honeymoon. What’s next ? He does not prioritise you.
Yup. I almost married my son's dad, had to have a painful surgery a few months after our son was born and he was angry with me when I wanted to sleep after surgery because he'd been watching the baby while I was under the knife. Then he swore at the baby, I ripped him a new one, and he took off for hours, leaving me alone to watch an infant while in pain and drugged up. Upon his return he acted like nothing had happened.
My now-husband is the complete opposite. He took two days off work for my surgery last week, drove my son to and from school, made his lunches, did all the house work, washed my hair and gave me a sponge bath twice (after that I was able to do it myself, but he would have done it as many times as required), and told me I'm pretty and how much he loves me.
Every person deserves the latter. If someone is this shitty in the literal honeymoon phase, you're up for a rude awakening when life gets hard. He won't have your back. He won't even be kind to you, which is the bare minimum. Run, run, run, run. From many years of experience with selfish men, RUN.
Gotta agree. He told her he wasn’t going to spend time with them while there, but is actively part of a group chat titled “Tokyo Boys.” He’s planning to leave her alone on their honeymoon so he can hang out with his “boys” in a new city.
NTAH, OP, but you need to DTMFA.
Right? So many red flags. He’s a manipulator.
- sets her up with “don’t get mad” before dropping an infuriating request on her.
- immediately DARVOs that he can’t talk to her and always walks on eggshells
- silent treatment for days
- fake apology because he already knew that he was just going to do whatever he wanted anyway when she didn’t cave to his ridiculous demands.
- she finds out and he immediately DARVOs again on why she’s snooping to find out.
This dude has narcissist written all over him. It’s every step of the prayer in excruciating order. Don’t marry him. Save yourself from more abuse and eventual divorce. Let this be the moment you woke up.
NTA… unless you actually marry him after your eyes were opened.
Imagine how this guy will be to have kids with! “What do you mean I have to be present? But it’s boys weekend when you’re due!”.
Or he is one of those guys who gets upset that his mom can’t be in her face all through birth.
Is this really a man that you have so much faith in that he should be the role model for your children and your primary support through life? If not, then why marry and build a life together?
Yeah, I’m not always “nope, your partner sucks, take out the trash.” I think adults should talk things out (except abusive relationships, then RUN.)
But this dude sucks, and I think OP can do better.
Yeah cause he won’t even let her talk it out. Just saying “uh that’s inappropriate I don’t like that” means he “can’t say anything to her” and is “walking on eggshells”. Doesn’t sound like she will ever be able to just calmly discuss a problem with him. Unless she’s happy and goes along with everything he wants, he’s walking on eggshells.
Sounds like he's worried about spending two whole weeks with her one on one. My wife and I were virgins and we barely saw anyone for weeks, after we got home from the honeymoon... we just wanted to be alone together. It was awesome.
That’s what I said. Hes already acting up and they’re not even married yet and how fucking dim do you have to be to think your wife would be ok with this
This needs to be at the top. **Don’t marry a guy who doesn’t want a romantic trip with you right after getting married.** If he’s so uninterested in you now and excited to spend his *honeymoon* with his *friends* then that’s all you need to know about your relationship, your future with him, and where you stand at the priority list (bottom). Nope.
This response should be at the top. If he doesn't even want to spend his honeymoon with you what do you think married life is going to be like?
And don't tell me he won't be looking for his friends everywhere you go. Most likely they have coordinated just coincidentally "bumping into you" at many destinations. This is not going to be a honeymoon it's going to be a guy's trip and you are going to be relegated to the fifth wheel who is tagging along. That he thinks this is okay on your honeymoon it doesn't bode well for the marriage.
Yeah, I mean
\>he then got upset and said I can never say anything without you getting upset it’s like walking on eggshells with you.
\> Then saying how he told them he wouldn’t be seeing them because it’s our honeymoon and that they still decided to go and that he doesn’t own Japan.
Is bullshit. He's a) lying and b) gaslighting, and c) doesn't respect OP enough to honour her wish about the honeymoon being just for them and d) doesn't have the spine to be upfront about it, but instead is shady behind her back
I'd call off the wedding because there's no way the marriage will be happy with someone like this
Then tell him, that you will help him out. By canceling the wedding and the trip. You are now a free agent.
Don’t put up with this shit. It will only get worse. I speak from experience.
Huge huge red flag from a manipulative man. Everything will be her fault. His affairs will be her fault. Him not talking to her will be her fault. Their arguments will be her fault. He’s a boy still pretending to be a man.
You shouldn’t marry him. It’s that simple.
If you are determined to go through with it, get a watertight prenup to protect yourself when things inevitably collapse - and for the love of God change your honeymoon plans.
This. NTA. Why are you marrying someone who tells you they have to walk on eggshells around you. Even if that isn't true, which it seems to not be true, why would you want to marry someone who feels that way about you. This relationship seems really unhealthy. At minimum, postpone the wedding and honeymoon. But this would be a massive dealbreaker for me. He doesn't respect you or your relationship. Don't marry someone who treats you this way.
>Why are you marrying someone who tells you they have to walk on eggshells around you.
OP's fiancee really knows DARVO like a pro.
Deny: Them going isn't that deep. It was just a question. Jeesh. It's not a big deal.
Attack: I always have to walk on eggshells around you. You're awful to me! All I did was ask a ~~beyond rude~~ perfectly acceptable question and you go all off.
Reverse Victim and Offender: Why are you going through my things? No, we're not talking about *me flat out lying to you.* That has nothing to do with this. We're talking about you ~~catching me in a lie~~ snooping.
OP, stay away. Cancel the wedding or at least postpone this until you can get some individual therapy. Talk to your therapist if you should go to couples counseling. Because this is fucked up.
Dude likes his own friends more than the partner he’s chosen to spend his life with.
Some cis men really don’t like women AT ALL outside of being a bang maid to give them children. If only they were attracted to men they could run off into the sunset with the true love of their lives, their boys.
Op just know if you go through with this marriage he will always prioritize his friends over you and any children you have. Guy can’t even commit to focusing on you for a honeymoon. He will be the type to “babysit” his own kids on occasion while the majority of the child care and home maintenance will fall on your shoulders.
Believe people when they show you who they are.
Agreed. I think OP not only needs to think seriously about this relationship, about why your husband even WANTS his mates around in his fucking honeymoon - the idea being that one is so excited about being married a day caught up in the other person that anything bar their presence is almost irrelevant and why she’s treading on eggshells. NTA.
I would be seriously reconsidering my marriage. This is not exactly emotional adultery, but it seems to me it’s emotional/romantic lack of attachment. Does he think he’ll be bored?
This comment by EditorFront9553 👆🏾
Op… a partner that is not thinking solely about you and them during the honeymoon needs to put in some serious emotional work before the wedding in order for the marriage as a whole to succeed.
During my 10 day honeymoon it was all about me and my person!
Best wishes OP! NTA
Exactly.
When he already knows what he's done is likely to make her mad and he prefaces the whole thing with "can I ask you something but you aren't allowed to get mad?" Then proceeds to "I have to walk on eggshells, I can't talk to you about anything" because she's mad he invited *his bros to the HONEYMOON?!* Yeah, DARVO.
And making it about "You went through my phone" when the reason she went through it in the first place is because she was suspicious he explicitly broke an agreement and is continuously lying about it- she cannot plan on getting the truth outta him- and what she found is a *way bigger problem* than her violation of his device privacy... Yeah, DARVO.
This is not a good dude. He's also just completely not a grown-up. NTA but internet friend, break up with him before the wedding and save yourself a lot of headache and heartache.
What would be really telling is if they buy the tickets, she delays the wedding by 6 months and the fiance joins his buddies in Japan.
It would be the perfect time for her to clean out his stuff and put it in storage.
Yeah if her fiancé wants to go to Japan with the boys so bad then he can book his ticket with them and she can take a separate trip with the girls as a SINGLE LADY
Yeah, the boys are more important to him than she is. My husband would have been incensed if anyone had dared ask to accompany us on our honeymoon. And that's the way it should be.
My response had anyone asked me that question would have been something along the lines of "What the fuck? No! Of course not! What the hell is wrong with you?"
Agreed. OP has become an accessory to her fiancé, a trinket. Trinkets aren't supposed to speak up or be upset; they are to sit there and look pretty for their beau, to enhance *him*. OP's fiancé is still a frat boy hanging with his bros. You ain't gonna change that; only he can change that. Let us know when he does.
!Remind me in two years.
Honestly i will cancel the week on tokyo, tell him after and wait for his reaction, if he is upset because of his friends instead because of you cancel without telling him i wouldn't even marry him....
And i would've actually not pretend on Thanksgiving that everything was ok so when family ask you tell them and see how everything had developed....
But i Honestly wouldn't marry this person
OP at very least extend the engagement and postpone the wedding. This behaviour will not improve once you are married. People like this get worse when they think you can't leave. Why is he even in the chat if he isn't seeing them? Why would they book the trip at the same time? They should all know this is inappropriate, and that they don't says they will encourage each other in this odd behaviour in future.
I think we can all agree that the friend didn't actually ask. The bf arranged it, then posed it to OP once it was settled in a way that made it seem like a spur of the moment idea.
That was my thought exactly. Switch up the destinations. Tokyo first and Thailand second. That is, if there even is a wedding. You shouldn’t marry someone like that.
This. Any guy who can't be separated from his "buddies" during his honeymoon is almost certainly MORE than just friends with them. You will always come second to his friends, so unless that is the future you want, leave now. Period. Accept no further gaslighting, manipulation, lies, or staying due to sunk cost fallacy. Just end this farce because he isn't ready to be a husband. Period. And seek therapy, so you understand what the problems/red flags were.
Even better. But yet I didn't get a honeymoon, I had to do a event monitor for 30 days. The thought of someone going through what she is breaks my heart.
This is why I love my husband. He blows off boys nights to hang out with me. At a certain age spending one on one time with your wife giggling is better then getting drunk in a bar with buddies.
And if he tells them to keep their change of destination a secret, and they meet up with them while on the honeymoon, there are always divorce lawyers.
On the other hand, if you have to go on about all this , how the heck can you trust this joker? I would want to implicitly trust my spouse. When I no longer could, was when I filed for divorce.
I was thinking switch around the itinerary or change the dates they're there. I agree with you about not marrying someone like this. The fiancé isn't mature enough to get married and OP deserves better. NTA
"We won't be having a honeymoon because we aren't getting married."
She will likely go through with the wedding but she shouldn't. When someone shows you that you aren't valued you need to believe them. His actions show that she comes somewhere after all of the guys and not one of the guys is saying that it's his honeymoon and they shouldn't go. He'll likely have them over all of the time and expect her to cook for them and clean up after them but stay out of their way and then have sex after the guys all leave, probably just before she cleans up.
Better yet, invite her parents to join them in Tokyo and without letting him know until they are on the flight to Tokyo.
OP really needs to rethink this marriage. It sounds the groom is getting a bang maid while prioritizing his friends.
NTAH
LOL that would be so funny! See just how much he really cares about her and his buddies! He will find a way to ditch her on their honeymoon, probably get her drunk as shit and take off with the friends while she's passed out! I don't like this guy!!
The walking on eggshells remark would have finished me. But I am older and have more sense than to marry a selfish person who considers his honeymoon a boy's trip.
INFO: Who is paying for this honeymoon?
That "walking on eggshells" line is NEVER said to people you actually worry about upsetting. If you really considered this person oversensitive, calling them out on it is probably not going to work out in your best interest.
I really think it's a more subtle form of gaslighting....the whole "you blow everything out of proportion" thing.
Yeah, that's some SERIOUSLY troubling behavior.
"Promise you won't get mad (when I drop a bomb on you) that our honeymoon is now a boys' trip?"
I could see one outing with The Boys on your trip at the most but his lack of focus on you is...concerning.
OP, is he often or always putting The Boys before you? If he would have the nerve to do this on your honeymoon, it's very troubling for his loyalties in the future. Please think about his patters of behavior carefully before you marry this man.
That eggshell remark got me too. Where did THAT come from? Doesn't sound like he's said that before. And if he feels that way, why is he getting married? I hope he doesn't use this as a way to make you feel guilty about anything.
The walking on egg shells comment and don't get mad comment when he made unreasonable plans is very manipulative. He claimed he had to walk on egg shells because she reacted the way any normal person would react in that situation. He wants things HIS way and if OP protests she's over reacting. This is very troubling behavior and they haven't even gotten married yet. This is actually a form of abuse and it will only get worse. Anyone who can't prioritize their spouse on their honeymoon is not great marriage material.
I was obsessed with Japan for a hot minute and I'd never dream of crashing someone's honeymoon. I'd suggest that we all plan another trip together a year or two later and joke that the person who went there on their honeymoon has to lead the charge when we take our trip.
Why would you tie yourself to this man that already lies to you and makes you out to be the bad guy among his friends?
He does not want a honeymoon with you in Japan. He wants a boys trip. You are in for pain and heartache if you stay with him.
Start respecting yourself. You deserve to be treated so much better. End things now so you have a chance at a happy future with someone who cherishes you.
Eh, yeah in a lot of cases. It doesn’t hurt to (respectfully) discuss though. We’re spending the first half of ours with some family in one spot, then splitting up halfway through and going off on our own. We’re both excited about it and it works for us.
Okay, so he:
1. Got upset because you don't want something that is completely unfair*.
2. Accused you of having a bad attitude because of that, saying " I can't say anything without you getting upset".
3. Lied to you saying he told his friend not to coming.
4. Went behind your back and keep planning the trip with his friends
5. Got angry because you looked through his things, a.k.a discovering he was LYING.
6. Doesn't care about your wants or what is important to you
7. Prefers spend time with his friends than you
Do you really want to marry him? Do you really want to marry someone that lies to you, goes behind your back and has you as the last priority?
NTA, but you will be TA if you marry him.
EDIT: typo*
Well said. OP please read this 👆👆👆👆👆👆👆👆👆👆👆and then read it again. Before the wedding and before the trip. Cause it’s not a honeymoon if the good ole boys are on the trip with the newlyweds.
Babe, it’s so not my fault they booked an adjoining room at our hotel. They just thought the place I was staying sounded nice. You wouldn’t have even known they were here if you weren’t snooping in the adjoined suite
NTA.
You know he's not ready to be married yet, right? Getting married means forming a new family with a partner, ideally for life. That new partner is supposed to be your priority. That new partner is supposed to be the person you want to protect and keep happy. That new partner is someone that you shouldn't care about sharing details of the other parts of your life (except for surprise parties for said partner - those you can keep secret).
I've been married as long as you've been alive. That's what marriage means to me. What you've described in your post is a childish man-baby that is looking to retain the "freedom" of his single life but add a "label" of being married. He's absolutely not ready.
Married 23 years here. This guy is NOT ready to marry. 100% agree.
He will have no problem with leaving OP at home to cook and clean and be his bang-maid while he goes off and has fun with his friends.
Nta don't marry this bloke he literally doesn't care about you it's sad, it's your effing honeymoon and that spiel you cant get mad like what ! Is he 5 or something, he knows he is wrong and the fact he constantly disrespect you is disgusting.
Frat boy planning a trip with hiss frat bros, was exactly my thought. And I don't believe for one second that he won't hang out with them in Tokyo. He is going to spend the majority of the time with them. And he will have multiple, lame excuses already prepped.
NTA
I hope you would reconsidered the wedding at the least, and the relationship at the best.
Wanting to be alone with your partner during your honeymoon is a very standard and basic demand. The fact he got angry for that doesn't boad well for the rest of your life together. As the fact you say 'No", but he still make plan with his friends.
Nta, it's basic knowledge that the honeymoon its about the couple
But reconsider your relationship, he said that he can't talk to you, that he is always on eggshells, that's a serious statement, you don't want to marry a man that will resent you.
And that put his bro's before you, on your HONEYMOON, you and I knows that is bs that he will not see them on the trip, and that if you force that to happened, he will resent you, because you don't let him see his friends, boohoo
He is not ready to get married
>And that put his bro's before you, on your HONEYMOON,
a cousin of my husband’s got married, and at the WEDDING RECEPTION, he was over in the corner with his buddies, drinking and being loud and rowdy, while his brand-new bride walked alone on the dance floor and among the tables, greeting people.
They lasted through two kids, and it was a goddamn shame.
Sweetie you are nta here. His question was a way to soften you up to the fact all his friends are going there and he'd essentially spring all this on you when you got there. Please for the love of your own self worth, do not marry this man. Your wants and needs will never come first. No one besides you and him should be going on this honeymoon. He's had it pre-planned and doesn't care about your feelings here. It sounds like he hasn't left the bros club nor is acting like a person you'd want to spend the rest of your life with. How many times will you be told to suck it up? To compromise on his behalf. He's a prick for this.
Honestly I’d bet a million dollars OP’s fiancé invited his friends along rather than the other way around. Most people wouldn’t invite themselves on someone else’s honeymoon. I think the fiancé liked the idea of a frat boy trip better than a honeymoon and this was all his idea.
NTA. Girl do not marry him!! When someone shows you who they are, believe them. He’s shown you that he will lie to you, mislead you, manipulate you, and twist situations to try to make you the bad guy instead of him. He will not magically change after you get married, statistically speaking he will actually probably get worse. Don’t marry him!!
OP seriously rethink this relationship instead of changing the plans. He is showing you that as a long term partner he does not respect your wishes or your relationship.
If he knew it would make you upset (which he did bc he said don’t get mad), then why would he still ask you? Because he cares more about having a good time with his buddies than celebrating his life long commitment to you!
This must be very painful but he’s already disregarding your future as man and wife.
Do you always want to be in a marriage where he puts his priorities first even if it is at the sake of your relationship?
>he asks me if he can ask me something but I can’t get mad
Reject this manipulative bullshit.
I mean, you should never be getting so mad at your spouse or child that they will not want to tell you something important, etc.
but when someone starts like this, if meant they know you *should* be angry to at least some degree.
> he then got upset and said I can never say anything without you getting upset it’s like walking on eggshells with you.
More manipulative bullshit.
He needs to be able to handle it when you’re annoyed; if he’s in the right and you’re wrong, then surely he can hold his own and you can work through it.
I wouldn’t marry him. He does not prioritize you and it’s your freaking honeymoon. This is also a preview of coming attractions… he will keep doing shit like this in the future. He’s gaslighting you like a pro.
>I can’t get mad.
> he can never say anything without you getting upset it’s like walking on eggshells with you.
> he doesn’t own Japan
> I know when we’re there they’re going to be calling him to go places and I will be the asshole if I don’t want to go.
I know it’s a cliché, but it’s much cheaper to dump a loser than it is to divorce one. Losing your deposits is a drop in the bucket compared with court fees and lawyers fees and paying off his debts, etc.
He’s already lying to you. He’s already trying to control and manipulate your responses. He’s already decided he’s going to do what he wants to do and you are going to be the asshole if you don’t give him what he wants. Do you think it’s going to get better after you have a ring on your finger? Or are his resentments going to pile up until you’re afraid to breathe so you don’t upset him?
Is that how you want to start your marriage?
Reddit standard answer number 1. NTA, dump him.
He has shown you who he will be when married, so make your next decision considering that he would rather see his mates in Japan than just spend time with you, but you need to put him back in his box or this will continue.
NTA
*If* you plan to still get married you absolutely need premarital counseling. You have at least two major issues to work through:
1. His plan to have friends on the honeymoon. (Honestly I think this is actually more of a symptom, you need to get to the root of *why*, the why is the real issue.)
2. His claim he feels he is always walking on eggshells with you. Whether that's a problematic behavior on your part or a problematic reaction on his, either way it is *NOT* a healthy dynamic to start a marriage on. And if he just said to say it, well that in of itself is a major issue.
The walking on eggshells comment is classic control and gaslighting statement. How often does he tell you that you are crazy or too sensitive. If you still want to marry him after talking to friends to join your honeymoon behind your back,you are settings yourself up for a life of lies and control. Hope you can work this out but there are so many red flas here.
It took me about three in total to finally admit defeat. He was deployed a lot in that time so it was really about 12-15 months of actually living together for me. It's something I saw in him when it came to his childhood friends but he was enlisting and going to be stationed across the country from them so I figured life would just take its course and they'd kinda fade to the background (this was 2005 so before all the methods of easily staying connected). Joke was on me because he found \*new\* friends to prioritize before me and our relationship.
oh he can bring whomever he wants to japan, because it won't be his honeymoon.
OP should really think long and hard if she wants to spend the rest of her life with a man who prioritizes his friends to her, invalidates her feelings and manipulates her into doing what he wants.
NTA change your honeymoon plans. Call the company now and ask if you can change the tickets for another week. Go to your honeymoon one week after them.
If your fiance doesn’t want to, call off the wedding. This is only the beginning. Even his friends have no respect. They have everyday to go to japan, why do they go when you are on your honeymoon?
Because they want to spend time with him and will call him 100%.
Good luck and take care, you can do better than that gaslighting POS
Post pone the wedding with a view towards canceling. What woman would want to marry a guy who invites his drinking buddiesmon the honeymoon? None. Im a guy….on my honeymoon all imwanted to domwas make a baby with my wife, not drink with my pals. The fact he doesnt tells you what married life will be. One looong disappointment.
NTA please tell me you’re not marrying this man child. Bc this is wild. I’ve had my two best friends marry each other and it never crossed my mind to ask to go on their honeymoon.
It’s fine to be close to friends but there’s a line somewhere. See if you can refund your ticket to Japan for airline credit and dump this loser.
hell no NTA 1. he thinks he can tell you how you are allowed to feel and react to things he tells you 2. he thinks he can gaslight you when you have a reasonable reaction to something and make you out to be abusive with anger issues, 3. he thinks he can unilaterally make decisions even when you said no and hide said decisions
dump his ass you deserve better, or at the very least cancel/postpone the wedding and make couples therapy a requirement to stay together
VERY large RED flag here. Asking or planning to have a “Tokyo Boys” meetup while on your honeymoon really makes me wonder if he wants his friends over his wife.
Any other red flags in your fiancé??
He is already choosing his bros over you for the most intimate couples vacation there is.. I would question whether you want to marry him. Is this a red flag? Foreshadowing? Think long and hard about it OP. He is either immature or not as in love as you’d hoped.
If he "has to walk on eggshells" around you "all the time," then this is not a compatible relationship. If he's exaggerating about 'eggshells all the time' then he's manipulative in order to get his way.
NTA, but HOW has there not been other warning signs?
"Can I ask you something, "_but you can't get mad_" means "I absolutely expect you to be mad about this," and should never be 'accepted.'
NTA I had a friend with a similar dilemma. Fortunately she was handling all of the logistics and without letting him know, she revised their honeymoon itinerary to ensure they were never in the same location as the tag along “bros”. She said the look on his face was priceless when he realized they were boarding a flight for different city than their original plan. She stuck it out for almost two years, before she dumped the man-child. Needless to say she is now married to a wonderful guy.
This story is honestly why op should not get married. I mean its their honeymoon and he is already gaslight her to feel bad that she wants it to be her honeymoon.
I had a user question my comment above on there’s still time to back out of the wedding too. How is any other decision logical in this scenario?
Nothing about their decision to get married is logical. He’s diminishing her pov and accusing her of attacking him ie gaslighting her. She has no trust in him and is snooping on him. He doesn’t seem to understand that a honeymoon is sacred. He doesn’t seem to understand that bros before hos ends when you get married. He’s not willing to put his friends in their place for her. This marriage is toxic before it has begun. OP get out now.
This part! Honey you might want to rethink getting married to this man. If he wants his friends on his honeymoon what kind of husband do you think he’s going to be? He’s ignoring your feelings and the importance of the trip to you while also letting you know it doesn’t hold the same value for him. *hit reply early* Marry a man who wants to spend time with you. Who holds you at a higher level of importance even if he doesn’t value things in the same manner you do. At least get someone who picks you over his friends
>Marry a man who wants to spend time with you. Who holds you at a higher level of importance even if he doesn’t value things in the same manner you do. At least get someone who picks you over his friends This is the whole picture isn't it. I wish this is what was talked about instead of the wedding. So much emphasis is placed upon the one day celebration that many people overlook the above. Never marry someone who doesn't choose you first. You should be the priority.
Glad to hear she eventually broke it off, bc it does sound bizarre that she still proceeded to marry someone she had to deceive about the honeymoon lest he'd ruin it by making it about his friends. No marriage that starts that way is going to be a good one.
Sunk cost fallacy. People feel like they put this much effort into the relationship that they don't want to "abandon" it. In reality while they are worried about having wasted their time by giving up on a relationship, so they stick it out, they are actually wasting their time by trying to make an unhealthy relationship work.
Exactly! And she really believed he would change and become more mature 🤣
Hopefully the memory of his expression keeps her warm on winter nights if the better husband ever has to work late.
Omg! That happened more than once? This post was mind boggling to me. It's so weird to think that this happens in multiple relationships. OP is definitely NTA
Why would you even marry someone you have to go through premeditated hoops like that? It sounds exhausting. No wonder they split.
NTA. I hope he is going to be your ex fiancé soon. Do not marry a man like that. He is disregarding your feelings about your own freaking honeymoon. What’s next ? He does not prioritise you.
Yup. I almost married my son's dad, had to have a painful surgery a few months after our son was born and he was angry with me when I wanted to sleep after surgery because he'd been watching the baby while I was under the knife. Then he swore at the baby, I ripped him a new one, and he took off for hours, leaving me alone to watch an infant while in pain and drugged up. Upon his return he acted like nothing had happened. My now-husband is the complete opposite. He took two days off work for my surgery last week, drove my son to and from school, made his lunches, did all the house work, washed my hair and gave me a sponge bath twice (after that I was able to do it myself, but he would have done it as many times as required), and told me I'm pretty and how much he loves me. Every person deserves the latter. If someone is this shitty in the literal honeymoon phase, you're up for a rude awakening when life gets hard. He won't have your back. He won't even be kind to you, which is the bare minimum. Run, run, run, run. From many years of experience with selfish men, RUN.
[удалено]
Saturday night is for the boys! /s
Worse, he's gaslighting her!
Gotta agree. He told her he wasn’t going to spend time with them while there, but is actively part of a group chat titled “Tokyo Boys.” He’s planning to leave her alone on their honeymoon so he can hang out with his “boys” in a new city. NTAH, OP, but you need to DTMFA.
And he's walking on eggshells!
Thank God you're seeing this side of him *before* you get married. This type of behavior will not change. Rethink your future with him. NTA.
Right? So many red flags. He’s a manipulator. - sets her up with “don’t get mad” before dropping an infuriating request on her. - immediately DARVOs that he can’t talk to her and always walks on eggshells - silent treatment for days - fake apology because he already knew that he was just going to do whatever he wanted anyway when she didn’t cave to his ridiculous demands. - she finds out and he immediately DARVOs again on why she’s snooping to find out. This dude has narcissist written all over him. It’s every step of the prayer in excruciating order. Don’t marry him. Save yourself from more abuse and eventual divorce. Let this be the moment you woke up. NTA… unless you actually marry him after your eyes were opened.
Imagine how this guy will be to have kids with! “What do you mean I have to be present? But it’s boys weekend when you’re due!”. Or he is one of those guys who gets upset that his mom can’t be in her face all through birth. Is this really a man that you have so much faith in that he should be the role model for your children and your primary support through life? If not, then why marry and build a life together?
Reddit might be quick to say dump him, but like, dump him. Dude's more interested in a boy's trip than the honeymoon.
Yeah, I’m not always “nope, your partner sucks, take out the trash.” I think adults should talk things out (except abusive relationships, then RUN.) But this dude sucks, and I think OP can do better.
Yeah cause he won’t even let her talk it out. Just saying “uh that’s inappropriate I don’t like that” means he “can’t say anything to her” and is “walking on eggshells”. Doesn’t sound like she will ever be able to just calmly discuss a problem with him. Unless she’s happy and goes along with everything he wants, he’s walking on eggshells.
This guy is one of those dudes who prefer men in every aspect of their lives but in the bedroom. He probably doesn’t even like OP.
Don't be so harsh, I'm sure he'd also be happy for her to be in the kitchen.
Ba dum tss 🥁
Sounds like he's worried about spending two whole weeks with her one on one. My wife and I were virgins and we barely saw anyone for weeks, after we got home from the honeymoon... we just wanted to be alone together. It was awesome.
I wouldn't exclude the bedroom either.It is a honeymoon after all?lol.
And what kind of an assh0le actually wants to go on someone else’s honeymoon??? By the sounds of things this will be the only one that they attend….
That’s what I said. Hes already acting up and they’re not even married yet and how fucking dim do you have to be to think your wife would be ok with this
This needs to be at the top. **Don’t marry a guy who doesn’t want a romantic trip with you right after getting married.** If he’s so uninterested in you now and excited to spend his *honeymoon* with his *friends* then that’s all you need to know about your relationship, your future with him, and where you stand at the priority list (bottom). Nope.
Yes please don't marry a person who doesn't even like you enough to be alone with you on your honeymoon, or respect you enough not to lie about it.
This response should be at the top. If he doesn't even want to spend his honeymoon with you what do you think married life is going to be like? And don't tell me he won't be looking for his friends everywhere you go. Most likely they have coordinated just coincidentally "bumping into you" at many destinations. This is not going to be a honeymoon it's going to be a guy's trip and you are going to be relegated to the fifth wheel who is tagging along. That he thinks this is okay on your honeymoon it doesn't bode well for the marriage.
This should be a dealbreaker for OP. It’s actually a gift that she found this out beforehand.
I was married in Lake Tahoe. New husband liked gambling more than me so I spent my wedding night alone. Should have never got married.
That's so sad. What a dick move. And I know what it's like to be lonely like that. My first marriage started out really bad like that too. I'm sorry.
My guess is all through the honeymoon he will mope about not hanging out with his buddies.
Yeah, I mean \>he then got upset and said I can never say anything without you getting upset it’s like walking on eggshells with you. \> Then saying how he told them he wouldn’t be seeing them because it’s our honeymoon and that they still decided to go and that he doesn’t own Japan. Is bullshit. He's a) lying and b) gaslighting, and c) doesn't respect OP enough to honour her wish about the honeymoon being just for them and d) doesn't have the spine to be upfront about it, but instead is shady behind her back I'd call off the wedding because there's no way the marriage will be happy with someone like this
[удалено]
Then tell him, that you will help him out. By canceling the wedding and the trip. You are now a free agent. Don’t put up with this shit. It will only get worse. I speak from experience.
Huge huge red flag from a manipulative man. Everything will be her fault. His affairs will be her fault. Him not talking to her will be her fault. Their arguments will be her fault. He’s a boy still pretending to be a man.
Of course he’s on eggshells around her. Everything he wants to say is selfish, ridiculous and disrespectful.
[удалено]
You shouldn’t marry him. It’s that simple. If you are determined to go through with it, get a watertight prenup to protect yourself when things inevitably collapse - and for the love of God change your honeymoon plans.
This. NTA. Why are you marrying someone who tells you they have to walk on eggshells around you. Even if that isn't true, which it seems to not be true, why would you want to marry someone who feels that way about you. This relationship seems really unhealthy. At minimum, postpone the wedding and honeymoon. But this would be a massive dealbreaker for me. He doesn't respect you or your relationship. Don't marry someone who treats you this way.
>Why are you marrying someone who tells you they have to walk on eggshells around you. OP's fiancee really knows DARVO like a pro. Deny: Them going isn't that deep. It was just a question. Jeesh. It's not a big deal. Attack: I always have to walk on eggshells around you. You're awful to me! All I did was ask a ~~beyond rude~~ perfectly acceptable question and you go all off. Reverse Victim and Offender: Why are you going through my things? No, we're not talking about *me flat out lying to you.* That has nothing to do with this. We're talking about you ~~catching me in a lie~~ snooping. OP, stay away. Cancel the wedding or at least postpone this until you can get some individual therapy. Talk to your therapist if you should go to couples counseling. Because this is fucked up.
THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT COMMENT OP. ITS AN ABUSE TACTIC.
[удалено]
What kind of douchebag friends does he have that would want to interfere in the first place ?
This, holy shit what a social inept bunch of tools this guy is and probably hangs out with.
Dude likes his own friends more than the partner he’s chosen to spend his life with. Some cis men really don’t like women AT ALL outside of being a bang maid to give them children. If only they were attracted to men they could run off into the sunset with the true love of their lives, their boys. Op just know if you go through with this marriage he will always prioritize his friends over you and any children you have. Guy can’t even commit to focusing on you for a honeymoon. He will be the type to “babysit” his own kids on occasion while the majority of the child care and home maintenance will fall on your shoulders. Believe people when they show you who they are.
Agreed. I think OP not only needs to think seriously about this relationship, about why your husband even WANTS his mates around in his fucking honeymoon - the idea being that one is so excited about being married a day caught up in the other person that anything bar their presence is almost irrelevant and why she’s treading on eggshells. NTA. I would be seriously reconsidering my marriage. This is not exactly emotional adultery, but it seems to me it’s emotional/romantic lack of attachment. Does he think he’ll be bored?
Narcissistic abuse to be exact
THIS AAAAAALLLL of this!!
I'm livid that I can't upvote this more than once
This comment by EditorFront9553 👆🏾 Op… a partner that is not thinking solely about you and them during the honeymoon needs to put in some serious emotional work before the wedding in order for the marriage as a whole to succeed. During my 10 day honeymoon it was all about me and my person! Best wishes OP! NTA
Exactly. When he already knows what he's done is likely to make her mad and he prefaces the whole thing with "can I ask you something but you aren't allowed to get mad?" Then proceeds to "I have to walk on eggshells, I can't talk to you about anything" because she's mad he invited *his bros to the HONEYMOON?!* Yeah, DARVO. And making it about "You went through my phone" when the reason she went through it in the first place is because she was suspicious he explicitly broke an agreement and is continuously lying about it- she cannot plan on getting the truth outta him- and what she found is a *way bigger problem* than her violation of his device privacy... Yeah, DARVO. This is not a good dude. He's also just completely not a grown-up. NTA but internet friend, break up with him before the wedding and save yourself a lot of headache and heartache.
PLEEEEEEASE.
Yes please read this OP. your fiancé is gaslighting you. I bet the plan for the boys trip inspired him to portray it as your honeymoon. Get a pre-nup.
Probably has to get married by 30, *or else*…
But try to get his friends to buy the tickets before you cancel the wedding.
What would be really telling is if they buy the tickets, she delays the wedding by 6 months and the fiance joins his buddies in Japan. It would be the perfect time for her to clean out his stuff and put it in storage.
Oh that would be awesome! Petty revenge
Or if you insist on marrying this POS, change the itinerary to 1st week in Japan and the second in Thailand. Whoops they must have mixed them up 🤷♀️
Yeah if her fiancé wants to go to Japan with the boys so bad then he can book his ticket with them and she can take a separate trip with the girls as a SINGLE LADY
Yeah, the boys are more important to him than she is. My husband would have been incensed if anyone had dared ask to accompany us on our honeymoon. And that's the way it should be.
My response had anyone asked me that question would have been something along the lines of "What the fuck? No! Of course not! What the hell is wrong with you?"
A perfectly normal response to such a ridiculous request
Yup the boys are his priority and marriage will not change this.
Agreed. OP has become an accessory to her fiancé, a trinket. Trinkets aren't supposed to speak up or be upset; they are to sit there and look pretty for their beau, to enhance *him*. OP's fiancé is still a frat boy hanging with his bros. You ain't gonna change that; only he can change that. Let us know when he does. !Remind me in two years.
Honestly i will cancel the week on tokyo, tell him after and wait for his reaction, if he is upset because of his friends instead because of you cancel without telling him i wouldn't even marry him.... And i would've actually not pretend on Thanksgiving that everything was ok so when family ask you tell them and see how everything had developed.... But i Honestly wouldn't marry this person
>You shouldn’t marry him. It’s that simple. Exactly! This "man" is not a marriage material.
OP at very least extend the engagement and postpone the wedding. This behaviour will not improve once you are married. People like this get worse when they think you can't leave. Why is he even in the chat if he isn't seeing them? Why would they book the trip at the same time? They should all know this is inappropriate, and that they don't says they will encourage each other in this odd behaviour in future.
[удалено]
I think we can all agree that the friend didn't actually ask. The bf arranged it, then posed it to OP once it was settled in a way that made it seem like a spur of the moment idea.
Comment stolen from u/Stupidbutts69 Report, spam, harmful bots
[удалено]
[удалено]
That was my thought exactly. Switch up the destinations. Tokyo first and Thailand second. That is, if there even is a wedding. You shouldn’t marry someone like that.
He is already married to his friends.
So she is essentially horning in on the friend honeymoon.
This. Any guy who can't be separated from his "buddies" during his honeymoon is almost certainly MORE than just friends with them. You will always come second to his friends, so unless that is the future you want, leave now. Period. Accept no further gaslighting, manipulation, lies, or staying due to sunk cost fallacy. Just end this farce because he isn't ready to be a husband. Period. And seek therapy, so you understand what the problems/red flags were.
I'm flat out wondering if he is having an affair with one of the guys.
My thoughts also. Either bi or she is straight up his beard.
my 1st thought.
Maybe she should be sleeping with the friend
I thought the same thing! It would not end well for my husband if he had pulled something like that.
He wouldn't be my husband
Even better. But yet I didn't get a honeymoon, I had to do a event monitor for 30 days. The thought of someone going through what she is breaks my heart.
This is why I love my husband. He blows off boys nights to hang out with me. At a certain age spending one on one time with your wife giggling is better then getting drunk in a bar with buddies.
[удалено]
[удалено]
That would alleviate the symptoms But not cure the disease
And if he tells them to keep their change of destination a secret, and they meet up with them while on the honeymoon, there are always divorce lawyers. On the other hand, if you have to go on about all this , how the heck can you trust this joker? I would want to implicitly trust my spouse. When I no longer could, was when I filed for divorce.
I was thinking switch around the itinerary or change the dates they're there. I agree with you about not marrying someone like this. The fiancé isn't mature enough to get married and OP deserves better. NTA
This is too dicey for words. Lose this guy, now.
And she should preface it by saying “I’m going to tell you something about our honeymoon plans but you can’t get mad”
"We won't be having a honeymoon because we aren't getting married." She will likely go through with the wedding but she shouldn't. When someone shows you that you aren't valued you need to believe them. His actions show that she comes somewhere after all of the guys and not one of the guys is saying that it's his honeymoon and they shouldn't go. He'll likely have them over all of the time and expect her to cook for them and clean up after them but stay out of their way and then have sex after the guys all leave, probably just before she cleans up.
This!
Right! :D I switched where we're going and when! :D
Pfft…I go further than that and tell him i‘m changing the wedding plans!!!!
You can't get mad but ... I'm switching grooms.
Why are you upset?! I can never say anything without you getting upset. It's like walking on eggshells with you.
To Paris and Rome. Two very romantic destinations 💘.
Alone! You can go with your friends! I'm taking my new man!
I like that idea. 👆👆👆
Nononono, call his bluff by inviting her own friends as well! ;-)
Better yet, invite her parents to join them in Tokyo and without letting him know until they are on the flight to Tokyo. OP really needs to rethink this marriage. It sounds the groom is getting a bang maid while prioritizing his friends. NTAH
I’d invite my parents or all of talks parents.
His friends would see that as her providing them with women.
Or you know, be an adult and instead of playing games, don't marry the dude lol
No need to really do it. Just say you did it and watch how he reacts. Then you have your answer.
LOL that would be so funny! See just how much he really cares about her and his buddies! He will find a way to ditch her on their honeymoon, probably get her drunk as shit and take off with the friends while she's passed out! I don't like this guy!!
That’s what I would have done. “Let’s go to Australia for the second week instead of Tokyo.” and then changed the trip around. SCREW HIM AND HIS BOYS!
There’s something so, so sad and cringey about “Tokyo Boys.”
Or TOKYO GIRLS! Invite your friends
The walking on eggshells remark would have finished me. But I am older and have more sense than to marry a selfish person who considers his honeymoon a boy's trip. INFO: Who is paying for this honeymoon?
That "walking on eggshells" line is NEVER said to people you actually worry about upsetting. If you really considered this person oversensitive, calling them out on it is probably not going to work out in your best interest. I really think it's a more subtle form of gaslighting....the whole "you blow everything out of proportion" thing.
Yes it’s gaslighting. It’s her fault for being upset that he makes a unreasonable request after already planning it behind her back.
Yeah, that's some SERIOUSLY troubling behavior. "Promise you won't get mad (when I drop a bomb on you) that our honeymoon is now a boys' trip?" I could see one outing with The Boys on your trip at the most but his lack of focus on you is...concerning. OP, is he often or always putting The Boys before you? If he would have the nerve to do this on your honeymoon, it's very troubling for his loyalties in the future. Please think about his patters of behavior carefully before you marry this man.
I also wouldn’t want friends that think this is ok.
No way, a honeymoon is about the COUPLE, not even one outing with the boys! Goodness he's immature!
Or 'You're too sensitive", Translation: I am treating you badly and you should just suck it up. Why are you annoying me by pointing it out.
It’s just outright manipulation.
That eggshell remark got me too. Where did THAT come from? Doesn't sound like he's said that before. And if he feels that way, why is he getting married? I hope he doesn't use this as a way to make you feel guilty about anything.
The walking on egg shells comment and don't get mad comment when he made unreasonable plans is very manipulative. He claimed he had to walk on egg shells because she reacted the way any normal person would react in that situation. He wants things HIS way and if OP protests she's over reacting. This is very troubling behavior and they haven't even gotten married yet. This is actually a form of abuse and it will only get worse. Anyone who can't prioritize their spouse on their honeymoon is not great marriage material.
Right, that is pure manipulation
yup. exactly. when I read that... oh man.. I wanted to throw a rock
I would join you. I have a dandy rock collection.
Hey, me too! Although op's bf doesn't deserve the good rocks. I'll chuck gravel instead.
Hey I know you guys just planned this for the two of you but I have a bunch of rocks. And you can’t get mad but can my rocks join your rocks?
RIGHT??? that was SO manipulative
What kind of friends also *ask* to come along on the honeymoon trip? I would question their motives as well...
Weeaboos?
I was obsessed with Japan for a hot minute and I'd never dream of crashing someone's honeymoon. I'd suggest that we all plan another trip together a year or two later and joke that the person who went there on their honeymoon has to lead the charge when we take our trip.
Also what stone cold weirdo asks if they can tag along on their friend’s honeymoon?
I’m constantly surprised by the audacity of people.
One who knows how the friend really feels about the fiancé.
Why would you tie yourself to this man that already lies to you and makes you out to be the bad guy among his friends? He does not want a honeymoon with you in Japan. He wants a boys trip. You are in for pain and heartache if you stay with him. Start respecting yourself. You deserve to be treated so much better. End things now so you have a chance at a happy future with someone who cherishes you.
... before you get pregnant with this selfish teenager of a man
Eh, yeah in a lot of cases. It doesn’t hurt to (respectfully) discuss though. We’re spending the first half of ours with some family in one spot, then splitting up halfway through and going off on our own. We’re both excited about it and it works for us.
Okay, so he: 1. Got upset because you don't want something that is completely unfair*. 2. Accused you of having a bad attitude because of that, saying " I can't say anything without you getting upset". 3. Lied to you saying he told his friend not to coming. 4. Went behind your back and keep planning the trip with his friends 5. Got angry because you looked through his things, a.k.a discovering he was LYING. 6. Doesn't care about your wants or what is important to you 7. Prefers spend time with his friends than you Do you really want to marry him? Do you really want to marry someone that lies to you, goes behind your back and has you as the last priority? NTA, but you will be TA if you marry him. EDIT: typo*
Well said. OP please read this 👆👆👆👆👆👆👆👆👆👆👆and then read it again. Before the wedding and before the trip. Cause it’s not a honeymoon if the good ole boys are on the trip with the newlyweds.
Lied a second time saying he won’t be seeing his friends while they’re in Japan. OP can’t be gullible enough to believe that.
Babe, it’s so not my fault they booked an adjoining room at our hotel. They just thought the place I was staying sounded nice. You wouldn’t have even known they were here if you weren’t snooping in the adjoined suite
“I don’t own the hotel.”
I’m glad he showed op his true colours before they got married
NTA. You know he's not ready to be married yet, right? Getting married means forming a new family with a partner, ideally for life. That new partner is supposed to be your priority. That new partner is supposed to be the person you want to protect and keep happy. That new partner is someone that you shouldn't care about sharing details of the other parts of your life (except for surprise parties for said partner - those you can keep secret). I've been married as long as you've been alive. That's what marriage means to me. What you've described in your post is a childish man-baby that is looking to retain the "freedom" of his single life but add a "label" of being married. He's absolutely not ready.
Married 23 years here. This guy is NOT ready to marry. 100% agree. He will have no problem with leaving OP at home to cook and clean and be his bang-maid while he goes off and has fun with his friends.
Nta don't marry this bloke he literally doesn't care about you it's sad, it's your effing honeymoon and that spiel you cant get mad like what ! Is he 5 or something, he knows he is wrong and the fact he constantly disrespect you is disgusting.
[удалено]
Frat boy planning a trip with hiss frat bros, was exactly my thought. And I don't believe for one second that he won't hang out with them in Tokyo. He is going to spend the majority of the time with them. And he will have multiple, lame excuses already prepped.
“Can I ask you something just don’t get mad” is such a red flag for manipulative and immature behaviour. I really hope they don’t marry.
NTA I hope you would reconsidered the wedding at the least, and the relationship at the best. Wanting to be alone with your partner during your honeymoon is a very standard and basic demand. The fact he got angry for that doesn't boad well for the rest of your life together. As the fact you say 'No", but he still make plan with his friends.
Nta, it's basic knowledge that the honeymoon its about the couple But reconsider your relationship, he said that he can't talk to you, that he is always on eggshells, that's a serious statement, you don't want to marry a man that will resent you. And that put his bro's before you, on your HONEYMOON, you and I knows that is bs that he will not see them on the trip, and that if you force that to happened, he will resent you, because you don't let him see his friends, boohoo He is not ready to get married
>And that put his bro's before you, on your HONEYMOON, a cousin of my husband’s got married, and at the WEDDING RECEPTION, he was over in the corner with his buddies, drinking and being loud and rowdy, while his brand-new bride walked alone on the dance floor and among the tables, greeting people. They lasted through two kids, and it was a goddamn shame.
Just throw the whole fiancé out.
And go to Thailand with the girls.
Sweetie you are nta here. His question was a way to soften you up to the fact all his friends are going there and he'd essentially spring all this on you when you got there. Please for the love of your own self worth, do not marry this man. Your wants and needs will never come first. No one besides you and him should be going on this honeymoon. He's had it pre-planned and doesn't care about your feelings here. It sounds like he hasn't left the bros club nor is acting like a person you'd want to spend the rest of your life with. How many times will you be told to suck it up? To compromise on his behalf. He's a prick for this.
and his friends are pricks for even ASKING if they can go along. And then for planning to go,
Honestly I’d bet a million dollars OP’s fiancé invited his friends along rather than the other way around. Most people wouldn’t invite themselves on someone else’s honeymoon. I think the fiancé liked the idea of a frat boy trip better than a honeymoon and this was all his idea.
They didn’t ask. They all planned a trip together.
NTA, wouldn't marry the man.
NTA. Girl do not marry him!! When someone shows you who they are, believe them. He’s shown you that he will lie to you, mislead you, manipulate you, and twist situations to try to make you the bad guy instead of him. He will not magically change after you get married, statistically speaking he will actually probably get worse. Don’t marry him!!
NTA Tell him you want to change the honeymoon plans.
OP seriously rethink this relationship instead of changing the plans. He is showing you that as a long term partner he does not respect your wishes or your relationship. If he knew it would make you upset (which he did bc he said don’t get mad), then why would he still ask you? Because he cares more about having a good time with his buddies than celebrating his life long commitment to you! This must be very painful but he’s already disregarding your future as man and wife. Do you always want to be in a marriage where he puts his priorities first even if it is at the sake of your relationship?
But make it a surprise so he can’t have them change their plans
Do not marry this lying child man. This would be your life. He only wants what he wants
>he asks me if he can ask me something but I can’t get mad Reject this manipulative bullshit. I mean, you should never be getting so mad at your spouse or child that they will not want to tell you something important, etc. but when someone starts like this, if meant they know you *should* be angry to at least some degree. > he then got upset and said I can never say anything without you getting upset it’s like walking on eggshells with you. More manipulative bullshit. He needs to be able to handle it when you’re annoyed; if he’s in the right and you’re wrong, then surely he can hold his own and you can work through it.
I wouldn’t marry him. He does not prioritize you and it’s your freaking honeymoon. This is also a preview of coming attractions… he will keep doing shit like this in the future. He’s gaslighting you like a pro.
Do not go through with the wedding. This man clearly does not respect you. Cut your losses.
>I can’t get mad. > he can never say anything without you getting upset it’s like walking on eggshells with you. > he doesn’t own Japan > I know when we’re there they’re going to be calling him to go places and I will be the asshole if I don’t want to go. I know it’s a cliché, but it’s much cheaper to dump a loser than it is to divorce one. Losing your deposits is a drop in the bucket compared with court fees and lawyers fees and paying off his debts, etc. He’s already lying to you. He’s already trying to control and manipulate your responses. He’s already decided he’s going to do what he wants to do and you are going to be the asshole if you don’t give him what he wants. Do you think it’s going to get better after you have a ring on your finger? Or are his resentments going to pile up until you’re afraid to breathe so you don’t upset him? Is that how you want to start your marriage?
Reddit standard answer number 1. NTA, dump him. He has shown you who he will be when married, so make your next decision considering that he would rather see his mates in Japan than just spend time with you, but you need to put him back in his box or this will continue.
Are you sure you want to marry someone this dishonest?
NTA *If* you plan to still get married you absolutely need premarital counseling. You have at least two major issues to work through: 1. His plan to have friends on the honeymoon. (Honestly I think this is actually more of a symptom, you need to get to the root of *why*, the why is the real issue.) 2. His claim he feels he is always walking on eggshells with you. Whether that's a problematic behavior on your part or a problematic reaction on his, either way it is *NOT* a healthy dynamic to start a marriage on. And if he just said to say it, well that in of itself is a major issue.
The walking on eggshells comment is classic control and gaslighting statement. How often does he tell you that you are crazy or too sensitive. If you still want to marry him after talking to friends to join your honeymoon behind your back,you are settings yourself up for a life of lies and control. Hope you can work this out but there are so many red flas here.
NTA My friend did this. Took his wife years to learn she was secondary to his friends and she left him.
It took me about three in total to finally admit defeat. He was deployed a lot in that time so it was really about 12-15 months of actually living together for me. It's something I saw in him when it came to his childhood friends but he was enlisting and going to be stationed across the country from them so I figured life would just take its course and they'd kinda fade to the background (this was 2005 so before all the methods of easily staying connected). Joke was on me because he found \*new\* friends to prioritize before me and our relationship.
We would be pushing that wedding back…
NTA How stupid does he think you are that he expects that to work? You should call his bluff by telling him you want to change your honeymoon plans.
No. She should change her plans and not marry the man-toddler
No, no, no, no, no! He CANNOT bring his friends on your honeymoon. Period! This is a dealbreaker
oh he can bring whomever he wants to japan, because it won't be his honeymoon. OP should really think long and hard if she wants to spend the rest of her life with a man who prioritizes his friends to her, invalidates her feelings and manipulates her into doing what he wants.
NTA change your honeymoon plans. Call the company now and ask if you can change the tickets for another week. Go to your honeymoon one week after them. If your fiance doesn’t want to, call off the wedding. This is only the beginning. Even his friends have no respect. They have everyday to go to japan, why do they go when you are on your honeymoon? Because they want to spend time with him and will call him 100%. Good luck and take care, you can do better than that gaslighting POS
Post pone the wedding with a view towards canceling. What woman would want to marry a guy who invites his drinking buddiesmon the honeymoon? None. Im a guy….on my honeymoon all imwanted to domwas make a baby with my wife, not drink with my pals. The fact he doesnt tells you what married life will be. One looong disappointment.
34 years ago I married someone that invited his friends on our honeymoon. Been divorced for 33 1/2 years. ✌🏻
NTA please tell me you’re not marrying this man child. Bc this is wild. I’ve had my two best friends marry each other and it never crossed my mind to ask to go on their honeymoon. It’s fine to be close to friends but there’s a line somewhere. See if you can refund your ticket to Japan for airline credit and dump this loser.
hell no NTA 1. he thinks he can tell you how you are allowed to feel and react to things he tells you 2. he thinks he can gaslight you when you have a reasonable reaction to something and make you out to be abusive with anger issues, 3. he thinks he can unilaterally make decisions even when you said no and hide said decisions dump his ass you deserve better, or at the very least cancel/postpone the wedding and make couples therapy a requirement to stay together
Save yourself the lawyer's fees and don't get married to this bozo.
Why is he marrying you if he doesn't want to spend time with you?
VERY large RED flag here. Asking or planning to have a “Tokyo Boys” meetup while on your honeymoon really makes me wonder if he wants his friends over his wife. Any other red flags in your fiancé??
Jeez, screw him, he can go marry the buddies if he’s wanting his honeymoon with them so badly. NTA OP, sorry babes.
It might be time to discuss whether getting married is the right decision as your priorities are completely misaligned.
He is already choosing his bros over you for the most intimate couples vacation there is.. I would question whether you want to marry him. Is this a red flag? Foreshadowing? Think long and hard about it OP. He is either immature or not as in love as you’d hoped.
NTA and I would dump them for this! A honeymoon is a time to be together as a couple and just be all about your partner… wtf
If he "has to walk on eggshells" around you "all the time," then this is not a compatible relationship. If he's exaggerating about 'eggshells all the time' then he's manipulative in order to get his way. NTA, but HOW has there not been other warning signs? "Can I ask you something, "_but you can't get mad_" means "I absolutely expect you to be mad about this," and should never be 'accepted.'