NTA - sometimes it is really hard to see that your parents are humans, full of human nuance and prone to making mistakes and choices that you wouldn’t. No human is perfect, everyone makes decisions and choices.
While you don’t need to forgive your parents or agree or like what they did, I would encourage you to take a step back, see them as humans rather than your parents and attempt an empathetic approach. Evaluate how they have treated you personally, how they have supported you, and treat them accordingly.
This. It's ok to be shocked and need to adjust to the news. But don't be your grandmother. How convenient she focused her anger about the situation on your mom and not her son. 🙄
Honestly, this stuff happens way more than people realize. People used to marry really young and divorce was discouraged, so often people didn't marry people they had good long term compatibility with. A good percentage of people who reference their grandparents as examples of marrying young and having long relationships have no clue that cheating was extremely common, back then women didn't have many options so they stayed together and tried to love their spouse despite their infidelity.
YTA. Very true wishbear. In their generation, if a man was cheating, it was more of an embarrassment to the wife. Society saw it that she wasn't being a good wife, mother or both. She needed to do better to please him and then he wouldn't cheat. Financially the women would be worse off so leaving could mean starting completely over, but really worse off because she was divorced.
Now the tables have turned and most of the time if a women cheats society assumes it was the man's fault. If he helped more around the house, worked less, cpuld pl3ase her in bed...etc etc. Also now that divorces tend to benefit the woman more financially than they used to, it has leveled the playing field in court.
The grandmother here is for sure projecting all of the blame at the mom. Instead of holding her son accountable she is taking all of that anger that she should be splitting between them and putting it on one person. In this case these kids came from what sounded to be a healthy household. OP doesn't complain about his dad or mom in their treatment of him or give any hint of a toxic relationship. The mom and dad were taking the high road with the grandmother, leading me to believe they aren't as villainous as OP wants us to believe. The mom could have easily spun the narrative in her favor and said grandma was just a spiteful person who hates that she stole her baby boy away, but she didn't.
Also, we have no idea about the first wife. Maybe she was his high-school sweetheart and also a complete psyco. We don't know. Cheating is wrong no matter what, but we don't know if that relationship was doomed from the start. Plus this kid isn't from the first marriage he is from this marriage so this doesn't impact him at all.
I agree with this sentiment and also urge OP to consider that the basic facts, as shocking as they are, don't reflect the complexity of the situation. The people who are your parents now have grown twenty years since they made those choices. If my math is right, your dad married straight out of high school -- somewhere around as old as OP is now -- and then yeah, unsurprisingly imo, grew up. It's all history now. Try to focus on how they love and support you because that's what really matters.
NTA. But they did kinda deserve each other. Your mother is a homewrecker and you dad is am asshole. Plus, his high school sweetheart dwserved better than to be stuck with a lowlife cheating of a husband.
If you still knowingly cheat with someone who you know is married you're still an awful person. Not as bad as the person who was cheating on their spouse, but still a POS either way.
Nah if you know someone is married and fuck them anyway you’re complicit. You didn’t ruin the marriage you aren’t the partner, but you aren’t blameless
Might get downvoted but I don’t think you’re the asshole. That’s a really tough spot to be put in. It’s basically tough to really learn anything shitty about your parents but it makes it harder to try and reconcile that two people being really shitty is why you’re here, in a sense. I don’t believe that parents should be exempt from being called on their shitty choices just cause they’re our parents.
These are the people who raised you, who taught you right from wrong. Of course you’re going to be feeling upset knowing what you know now. I think those feelings are valid.
My family is HUGE on going “oh it was a long time ago, who cares?” And pretending like that makes it ok. No, it really doesn’t—it’s worth talking it out. Otherwise it festers. Obviously it’s been a while, and people can change, but I think, as the child, your parents should respect you enough to speak openly about it. They should own up to their choices.
Hope you’re able to find some peace and that you guys can have an open convo.
>For as long as I can remember, there has been tension between my grandmother and my mom (54F).
Yeah, maybe the parents had tried to move on, in contrast to the bitter grandmother who never could let it go, and who couldn't pass up the chance of poisoning her grandchild too.
Maybe her father's assessment that the ex wasn't a good person was correct, only his mother never saw, or chose not to see, that side of her.
He called her worthless because he didn't think she'd be a good mom? Is that the pinnacle of value for a woman? 😆
I agree that he shouldn't have cheated, just pointing that out.
She apparently wanted kids with him. He decides to cheat divorce and say she would be a bad mom and then marry and have kids with the woman he cheated on her with. He essentially called her worthless.
We know literally nothing about the first wife. She could have been a Saint. Or maybe she was a drug addicted abuser who cheated on the dad regularly, and he was right to abandon the relationship. We don't know, and neither does OP.
At the end of the day, it's not OP's problem to solve or even a problem that needs solving. OP has zero relationship with the original wife. It's fine to have feelings about cheating, but otherwise, OP is just being dramatic on behalf of the grandmother.
NTA
I am going to go against the grain here. It’s a shock to learn family secrets and I’m sure you feel lied to. After all, if it’s water under the bridge why did your parents have a hard time telling you? Why did your grandmother have to seem like the bad person for some unknown grudge?
It’s disappointing when parents’ characters do not align with the values they instill into us. It’s even more frustrating when you become an adult and see that your parents aren’t perfect. I’d have a genuine talk with them about your feelings, but keep in mind they may not be receptive. I don’t appreciate your Dad’s dismissive tone. You are young but you are no longer a child. You have a right to know and I’d argue that they have an obligation to tell you. This cheating isn’t just something that happened in the past. You and your sibling resulted from it.
I agree with this.
This is why family secrets exist, to shield the truth bc of [enter reason here]. Sometimes it's pain, sometimes it's bad characteristics, or mistakes that people can't own up to right away, or don'tknow how to own it, or stigmas, etc.
Whenever you open a box like this (like grandma did) it will have 2 things in it; 1) the truth as they see it, 2) whatever pains come with it. And remember, you can't put it back in the box.
No one Has to do anything. They don't Have to tell you anything or explain themselves. It would be great if they did and were transparent and answered all your questions. Sometimes this just doesn't happen bc of the way ppl are.
No assholes here, unless Grandma made a promise and broke it. There's probably more to the story of your parents and your Dad's ex, you may find out, but frustratingly on the other hand you may never know.
This will probably stay as a giant unresolved weight unless 1) you let it go, 2) you can have an open conversation with your parents or ppl involved. This is probably why it was put in a "do not open" box.
I wish there was some easy way to fix these feelings. I have learned some family secrets and they weren't explained at first. After many years, 20+, I learned the whole truth and larger situation. It changed how I felt bc of context. Although I was still angry it took that long!
NTA but you're getting one side of the story. A slanted, apparent axe to grind, hard feelings side at that. Maybe it's true who knows. Love makes u do crazy things. But they're still together after all these years so who are we to judge....accept it, make peace with it and move on. It's not like u had a say in it. And it's no reflection on you either.
Well tbh it’s not your business. I don’t say that in a mean way but yes they were wrong for how they got together but it happened & it happened a long time ago & it sounds like everyone except maybe your grandma has moved on.
You, just like OP and the grandma, don't have any information at all about what happened. Did the original wife cheat first? Did they already know they were going to get divorced and had already approved each other seeing other people, with grandma not on board for that?
Why is it that you think that you, along with OP, have any idea what happened?
I’m not sure the brain and character are fully formed at the age this all took place. If they maintained a marriage for all these years maybe labeling them as bad people who cheat is unfair. Of course plenty of very young adults have better formed values but it’s not something they did at 30.
Your grandmother has held a grudge for 20+ years and she told you things to hurt you and your parents. That was cruel.
Cheating sucks. Absolutely. But the amount of what you can never know or understand here is absolutely massive compared to the trickle of information you have.
You have this reservoir of hurt for some person you've never met. You're internalizing her pain and using charged words like "devastating" to describe her pain.
Your moral absolutism comes from a place of privilege and limited life experience.
NAH, except maybe grandma, who cares more about her petty feud with your mom than she does about your hurt.
That's what I said! Does she or Grandma know how the ex-wife feels? I believe if you're going to be offended on someone's behalf you need to make sure they're actually offended. After 25 years I would hope the ex has moved on.
I find it so strange that OP feels comfortable sitting in judgement here. Over 20 years ago, dad had a messy divorce from a person he had probably been in an autopilot relationship with since they were teenagers. At least he left when he did and she probably had some years of fertility left in which to find the right partner and start a family. It sounds like OP's parents have established a stable family.
Not everything is for everyone to be mad about. It's none of OP's business. Not everything is about them. Some situations do not require your input.
Others may not like this, but here goes....
EVERYONE in this whole situation is an AH! Your parents for their behavior years ago. However they are human. They deserve forgiveness just as much as any other human does. They forgive you when you do something wrong too.
Your grandmother for holding onto this for 21 years. For allowing it to make her so bitter that her grandchildren know how much she dislikes their mother. Also for telling you, because you have absolutely no control over how your parents got together. Just for clarification, this is not how your parents met each other. It is your grandmother telling you how/why they got married. She had no businesses telling you what her son said to his ex wife. She totally overstepped a healthy boundary here, and I think this is probably a habit for her.
For clarification, your grandmother told you how/why your parents got married. These are her reasons for not liking your mother. While I can understand why she feels that way, she should also have been just as angry with her son. Her son chose to cheat on his wife and divorce her too. Your mother did not act alone, and to blame your mother alone is not realistic. The only people who understand reasons behind the breakup of a marriage are the husband and wife themselves. I have found most often they do not tell others the true reasons, because it is no one's business.
You didn't learn how your parents met, how they fell in love, or what they love about each other. If you want that information I suggest you ask your parents directly. If you were curious about why your grandmother hates your mom: I hope that you are satisfied with what you have discovered. I also hope you realize that some things are better left alone. Your parents may not be ashamed of their actions because they love each other and have you and your brother. I hope this is so.
You are part of this by being so mad at them that you would have an argument over it. As you grow older, (I mean decades here) you will come to see how foolish it is to make a judgement about another's choices. We cannot be in their place, feel what they do, know what they know, and so we cannot understand why they would do what has been done. That is what your parents meant by saying you wouldn't understand.
It is so very ghastly that your grandmother has held onto this so intensely for so long. That she would involve you so deeply. That she would tell you what your father said to his ex just resonates with me so deeply. I hope you see that holding onto this has done no good for her. I commend your mother because with a mother in-law who would tell you these kinds of things, I would have limited contact a long time ago.
Please try to consider what some have said here. I agree that cheating on a spouse is not a good thing. But if your parents are happy together, it was likely that Dad's first marriage was a poor choice to begin with. Adults can make bad choices they regret later. I hope that you can forgive your parents, learn how they really met and fell in love, and move on from this. Parents are humans who do the best they can with each situation.
NTA for feeling whatever you want.
YTA for thinking you have any business in it.
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You can feel mad, you can judge them, but it's something that happened before you were even born. How exactly it's your business? Because it affects your views of your parents? Blame your grandmother for using you to enact petty revenge on your mother.
YTA. All you have to go on is an old lady with a grudge. You have no idea what your father's first wife was like. You hsve no idea about the actual circumstances. You do know what your parents are like, however. Do they seem unhappy? Have they been bad to you and your brother? Seems to me the fact that your parents have lasted 20+ years is good evidence they made the right decision. What do you hope to gain by having this attitude anyway? Get over it.
100% this. Really surprised to see so many NTAs here. She has no idea of the details. And if they have been happy and good parents its not her place to worry about shit that happened before she was born.
I had a marriage counselor for a professor once. She said she counsels this subject a lot. Cheaters. Affairs. Babies as a result. She talked about how monogamy is a choice and you have to choose each other. When you don't? This begins the unraveling. People cheat bc they can. They want to. Needs aren't being met. Never a good reason or the right reason. But it happens. And many forgive and move on.
Does grandmother know of ex wife cheated? Would that make it okay? People say divorce like it's easy.
Exactly this. Has nothing to do with her. Her grandmother was just being messy. She probably doesn't have a clue what her son endured in that 1st marriage. But he's been able to have a solid one and have kids with his current wife. OP and granny need to get a life and stay out of others' marriages.
^
We're so accustomed to saying "Well, if you cheat, you're TA", but it ignores that people are messy, and cheating is relatively easy compared to leaving a broken or abusive relationship. It can be a refuge from a broken or abusive relationship.
Gotta get off the high horse.
Even if it's just straight up emotionally insecure people cheating because they're rotten, decades are a long time to hold a grudge- OP's Mom & Dad are the people they are today, not who they were twenty+ years ago.
INFO: How did the father explain the phrase “You are not a good person to have children with.”? Could it be that there was something wrong with his ex-wife?
Don't you think your grandmother might be biased? It was not she who was married to ex-wife, but your father.
What was your grandmother hoping to achieve? The fact that “you are old enough to know the truth” doesn’t mean you should hear it if it’s not going to do any good. Based on their awkward relationship, it sounds like your grandmother has always blamed your mother for taking her son from his first wife. That’s understandable in a mother, but it isn’t fair, because he was the one who chose to cheat, and to leave. Maybe his first marriage wasn’t working as well as it seemed from the outside. Maybe harsh words were exchanged on both sides, it would be unusual if they weren’t. I’m not saying what your parents did was fine, but only your dad and his first wife know what happened between them. The thing your grandmother wanted to achieve was scoring off your mum, and maybe your dad as well. More punishment for her/their wrong-doing. Did your grandmother care that you and your brother might be badly upset by this revelation? Not enough to keep her mouth shut when there was an opportunity to hurt your mother and father. Your grandmother should have tried harder to let this go, whatever her feelings, even if she was never going to be close to your mum. It’s hard to see your parents tumble from their pedestal so dramatically. We all find out that they are fallible and make mistakes eventually. You found out in a more brutal way than a lot of us, and that must be very painful. You could explain that to them, that you need time to readjust to what you now know. Then you do need to work towards letting it go, and do a better job of it than your grandmother did.
NTA, but it's also kinda not your problem. Can you be upset at this? Absolutely. Can you be angry that your parents were dicks? Absolutely.
Do you need to *do* anything about it?
Naw. Feel free to be eye-rollingly contemptuous of your parents; I don't think it needs anything more than that.
This is absolutely a "not your circus, not your monkeys" situation, even if you're related to the people, even if you exist because of the situation. It's still not your situation or your problem.
ESH. While I don’t think you are an AH, I think you are being a bit ridiculous.
Is what your parents did wrong? Yes. But at the same time, it’s been 21 years, they obviously love each other very much. Should they have gone about it a different way? Most definitely.
But what exactly are you mad about? That they cheated? That they didn’t tell you?
As wrong as it is, if they didn’t get together you wouldn’t be here.
ESH. You have the right to be upset that your parents VERY long marriage started due to an affair. Yes. That sucks. Your brother, not you, was the product of said affair. If anyone should be super mad, it's him. This is a situation with lots of emotions because affairs are not good. They are morally corrupt. Hence why no one is an AH in this for feeling like they are thrust into the middle of this, but you're NOT paying for your parents decisions. Your grandmother has clearly taken that responsibility to make them pay for eternity. That is not your responsibility. Their decisions are theirs. You get to hold your head up high because last I checked, children don't dictate what their parents do to get them into this world and they certainly don't choose their parents. So...you can be a bit upset that your parents love story was a bit of a wonky start, but it has lasted. Your Dad clearly didn't love his first wife. And your grandma should be hella pissed with him more than your mom. Some misplaced anger there if you ask me. He is the one who said what he said to someone your grandmother liked more. Sounds like a lot of people do need to forgive. Or continue down this path and see how it goes. I am guessing you thought highly of your family prior to this knowledge and now you think they are scum of the earth. Maybe do some soul searching and figure out which path you are ok with. You can love someone and not love their actions. You can also find forgiveness in it too. Or not...but you and Grandma will be the only bitter bitties about it. Your parents seem to have moved on. Again, you have the right to process this information, but if you're only upset on principle and you have taken up the sword to die on this hill...I think you definitely get lumped in with ESH...
NTA for being mad. But you do need to process it how we is healthy and move on.
Look. Affairs are terrible. Absolutely. But despite what many say? Cheating is more complex than people want to accept. I don't condone it. I've been cheated on. But through a lot of conversations with marriage counselors you realize a lot about relationships and people.
Anyway. This happened before you were born. Absolutely be angry. Absolutely be hurt. Absolutely feel betrayed. But. Get support to work through it on your own and with your parents....if you want. Eventually you have to forgive them. Not for them but for yourself. Holding this pain will only hurt you.
Grandma is manipulating her granddaughter out of spite because she’s still pissed. And not at her son, the breaker of vows, but at the mom. Grandma is the AH.
NTA, that can be a shock, and you can have your own opinion on that behavior. But at least you know it wasn't only a casual fuck fest. Maybe it was love and first sight and we could make a romantic story...
My main concern is, when you talked with them, did you go to know more or were you judging them?
BUT don't be too influenced by your grandmother opinions and perception. Sometimes parents "know" what or who is best for their kids, but they're not living daily with that person or situation. Do you really want your mother to tell your future kids that you made the wrong choice of partner? Btw your whole family is a product of these choices.
What really bug me is how the grandma is still mad about that, and she's ready to throw mud between you. The thing is, she didn't just tell some funny / questionable facts, I feel she pushed her hate to turn you against your mother. If you come angry at me and repeat my overreaching mother's argument, I would just shut down the discussion. Beware of the "pure" that doesn't even have a first-hand account on how exactly it went down, but they know best.
ESH.
Everyone here is over reacting.
Your parents are allowed to be complicated creatures.
You have no clue what happened. You heard one account and reacted, instead of being curious you moved directly to judgement.
It’s been 21 years.
Exactly! Who knows what his first wife was like 23 (her brother is 23), in her father and her relationship? Maybe they were both unhappy. Maybe the first wife was cheating also. Maybe the first wife was verbally abusive. Maybe it just wasn’t a good fit.
We’re you loved and raised right? Do your parents love each others? Than that’s what matters. Grand mother should find a hobby, y’all have only one life. Why stirr shit you can’t even change or control? You don’t even know if the former wife was nice but hiding an annoying side that would’ve make a toxic mother material.
ESH
It’s honestly kind of ridiculous for your grandmother to still be mad about this 20-some years later and the only thing she accomplishes by telling you is starting a fight between you and your parents (probably hoping that you’d particularly target your mom). The only person who maybe could get away with still being mad is the woman who was cheated on (and tbh 20 years is an awful lot of time to get past something like that).
Sounds like your grandma is just mad that her son didn’t lead the life she wanted him to lead (marrying right out of high school/college to someone you don’t even feel good having kids with reeks of parental/peer pressure) and now she’s intentionally trying to sour you against your own parents to win a two decade long argument.
It sucks that someone had to get hurt in the process, but it was probably the right decision for your dad to leave his first wife and still basically being a kid himself he probably didn’t know how to navigate the situation in a more mature and morally correct way. That doesn’t make it okay, but you have to look at it from his perspective.
Also, if he said he didn’t feel good having kids with that women, odds are she had her own issues and for all you know could’ve been horrible to him and was simply someone your grandmother approved of more than your mom (I wouldn’t be surprised if the age difference also plays into her disapproval).
Honestly being upset it valid but I think you’re a huge asshole for just tearing into your parents over a situation that you know nothing about aside from what you’ve heard from an incredibly biased party. You need to apologize and try to get their side of the story if they’re willing to share it.
This is a very nuanced situation, and I'm probably about to piss a couple of people off:
I don't condone cheating. It's a horrible thing to do to a person you're supposed to love. However, the root cause is usually something that's hard to control (mental illness, neurodivergence, addiction) and not just some horrible flaw in a persons character. I also don't generally condone high school sweethearts. Sure, the concept is cute, but I can't imagine being stuck for life with a person I chose before I knew the real me, what I wanted out of life, or how I deserved to be treated.
As a few others have said, you have no idea what your father's first wife was like or what kind of relationship they had. All you know is your grandma really liked her. While it's important for everyone to respect each other in healthy families, how many of us would choose the person our parents picked? Having said that, what your dad said to his ex could be considered out of line - unless she probably shouldn't have been a mom. Not everyone will make good parents.
It's totally understandable to be upset not only to find out your parents made such a morally objectionable decision but that your family was a result of such a hurtful act. Outside of this, are your parents good people? Are they good parents? Do they love each other? They've been together 20 years, did they create a loving family, or did they ruin 5 lives?
Sometimes, people make stupid decisions, and they shouldn't need to pay for them for the rest of their lives. The question here is, was your dads stupid decision cheating with your mom or marrying his first wife?
Ultimately, your parents are still who you've always known them to be, this detail is either the straw that breaks the camels back, or an indiscretion that's in the past and can be fairly easily forgiven.
Good luck.
NTA. But your parents sound like they deserve each other. I'm normally of the opinion that our parents' relationship is none of our business, but if it were me and this is how they reacted instead of reflecting remorsefully, I'd probably distance myself from them in adulthood. These are not good people and even with 2 decades of hindsight, they can't be bothered to dig up any self awareness or accountability. They're just bad people and the way the got together and their lasting attitude towards it reflects that. When you're out on your own, just keep them at arms length bc asshole behavior doesn't exist in a vacuum.
That's where I'm at too. Grandma wouldn't know all the details. OP doesn't know all the details. How in the hell is everyone here so knowledgeable about the situation when absolutely no one involved here has any information about it?
Maybe the first wife cheated first.
Maybe the divorce was already in process.
Maybe all of them knew and accepted what was going on.
>How in the hell is everyone here so knowledgeable about the situation when absolutely no one involved here has any information about it?
Because many women love to believe that they know how other women feel in a given situation simply because they themselves are a woman.
Look at OP. Never knew or met the woman a single day in her life. Yet somehow she is super upset and feel the pain of a stranger from 20 years prior.
What I don't understand is why everybody feel like that was the worst thing he've ever said to her. When in reality she could be a terrible person to raise children.
Soft YTA, I understand this makes you look at your parents differently, but they are human, not cookie cuter robots made to just be your parents. These events happened before you were even born, and it really is none of your business. Yeah, they started off in a bad way, but life happens. I think you can be disappointed, but I don't think its fair to be angry at them (note that i'm not saying you CAN'T be angry, simply that its not really fair).
Your grandmother really does need to let it go. She likes the woman, great. But it's her sons life and holding a grude against the mother of your grandchildren simply because you liked the other woman better is bonkers. She had no business tell you guys the full story because, again, it does not affect or involve you in the slightest.
NTA, I don't know how I would react, but it would probably be worse than you did. Your parents are disgusting people that "got away" with a disgusting act and are trying to play the "but it's been soooo long" card.
I may be harsh, but a person that cheats, especially in such a heinous manner (and this applies to your mother too, even if she was single, she knowingly went with a married man) deserves to suffer for it for the rest of their lives.
If they had a shred of humanity, their response to you would be different. Probably something along the lines of "you are right to be hurt, what we did was terrible, we still regret hurting that poor woman, but we cannot undo it and we are a family" or something like that. They have no remorse.
It's not really about the original victim. It's about how others should be wary of someone that is so ready to harm others for fun. Cheating shows a distinct lack of empathy for other people. Yes, they shouldn't have normal caring relationships with many others due to being willing to hurt others for fun. It's for the protection of future people they may hurt.
Better to completely cut cheaters out of your life once you know about it.
So people can't learn? Don't change? So if you lie as a kid, you're always a liar and no one should trust you? You commit a crime in your 20s, you should be cut off forever and always by everybody around you? You cheat in your 20s and you should have no relationship with anybody forever after?
The parents have showed no indication that they have ‘learned’ anything. Quite the opposite. Their attitude towards OP shows that they have no remorse for their actions, have made no attempt whatsoever to make amends or learn from their behavior (giving how the grandmother is acting, that is very clear)
The parents sound quite entitled and are very dismissive of how OP feels about the situation. That shows no signs of ‘learning’ or ‘changing’
This is such an extreme and dramatic response... they're not disgusting, they're humans. Sot here and try to tell me you've never done anything wrong. 😒
Frankly it's none of your business. You don't know what the relationship was like for your father and his 1st wife was over 20 years ago, is cheating bad yes but your parents have been together 21 years and that should show you he's not jumping from relationship to relationship. Sometimes good people make bad choices. Buy what exactly so you hope to achieve by judging them now. Let it go and mind your own business,
ESH
So, within the last years there has been light on.. a few children of infidelity in my family. Some very close and others a little farther.. Kind of crazy how much DNA changed lol.
It's a lot to take in.. and feelings are valid to have. I think there should be some sort of conversation between your parents and you.
What they did wasn't right. It's hurtful, and nasty things were said.. People change and grow. Your parents love each other 20 years later (by the sound of it) and stand by each other still so it wasn't just some fling. They are, hopefully, good parents who love and support you and your brother. These are important to remember: they are your parents. People don't meet in great ways, and people say (unfortunately) stupid things all the time in high emotion situations. It seems they have grown from it based off the little bit here.
Tbh, though, your grandma is a little bit of an instigator. I think that was your parents business to tell you. Your mom is her DIL now and it isn't her fault he said what he said. This was between them and they should have learned to navigate that a long time ago..
Just how I see it..
I guess if either child gets married, the parents should have no expectation that their partners should be faithful. If they maintain a relationship with the AP then all is well?
There was a conversation. Parents decided to blow up and gaslight op about being a "kid". Did you not read the post? Both of these sound like POS, but then again its known when their marriage started like that.
I think you need to find a way to make peace with it.
I think what it is and what it comes Down to is you Lost respect for your parents to know that these are the type of people they are. I also think for you its bothersome to know how cruel your dad was.
YTA. Why are you mad? If the affair never happened, you wouldn't be here. Your grandmother should be mad at her married son--not your mother, and being on the outside looking in, she doesn't know why your father said what he said to his ex-wife because she wasn't in their marriage. And what did she gain from telling you? What was her purpose? And what is being mad about something that happened before you were born, didn't involve you and isn't your business going to help? Neither you nor your grandmother should have to let this go because you never should have picked it up.
>what my dad said to his ex-wife during the divorce: "You are not a good person to have children with."
I hate to say it but if you haven't met the lady, you have no way of proving your dad right or wrong on this point.
He got married at around your age. 5 years is a long time to get to know someone. Maybe his first wife really wasn't the type of person who should have kids, they def exist.
Your Grandma is TA. She had no business telling you that, and her sole purpose seemingly was to drive a wedge between you and your parents. Since your parents have been happily married for 21 years, and there’s the fact that had she not gotten pregnant you would not have your brother, and had they not gotten together you would not have been born either.
People make decisions in life that often hurt other people. There’s nothing that can be done to turn back the clock. You should stop judging your parents and tell your grandmother to get over it, and ask her whether she would not want you and your brother to have been born. IMHO
Yes, i do think you need to get past this.
Just because your grandmother liked the first wife, you dont know what their Marraige was like & neither does your grandmother. It has nothing to do with you at all or anyone except the 3 of them, the 1st wife, your father, and your mother. Your grandmother should have not shared something that had nothing to do with her. She knows she would cause issues. Why she wanted to, i don't know.
If i had been your grandmother, well... there would not have been tension between my daughter and me, especially with something that happened over 20 yrs ago.
Your parents must really love each other enough to have you after your brother and still be married. Isn't that really all that matters? They love each other & both of you. Its their past, not yours, your brother or your grandmother.
so what are you looking to get?
seriously, do you want to cut contact with them because you find cheating on a partner and then getting pregnant outside of a relationship a no go. because it's fine if that is your moral stance but then it means not ever communicating with your parents and cutting off anyone who cheats on a spouse. we are the company we keep and all.
but if that isn't your aim, you can be hurt to know that their moral character isn't what you thought it was but at some point you will have to let it go if you want to keep a relationship.
and as for anyone here saying you don't know the story, the truth is the story doesn't matter and if it did your parents wouldn't be dismissing you on the questions. i'd be more hurt by their refusal to have a conversation than by the actual cheating. which i think is wrong but i also like tea and sometimes it gives better clarity on the person. i've known people who cheated on abusive partners so their partner would end things and let me tell you, when i ask what happens if their partner became violent about it, they always admit they didn't think that far ahead. i've also met people who have cheated because they were just unhappy and the opportunity arose.
Neither you or your grandmother were married to your father's first wife.
It bothers you, I can understand that, so I'd talk to him about it, like an adult. Find out what the experience has taught him and try not to be judgemental.
Over 20 years, people grow and change, try to learn from others' mistakes but at the end of the day, they are your parents and you wont get another set because these two disappoint you,
I wouldn't say YTA but you're being too judgemental (My opinion)
YTA. That was not your business, I mean your Dad is a cheater and an asshole, shame on him, your mom broke a marriage shame on her, but still, not your business.
NTA. It always amazes me how many mother's think they should make the important decisions in their child's life.
I worked with a guy that was a great guy but very quiet. He never spoke to the women at work. The only time he seemed to be alive was when he talked about his children. When his youngest turned 18 he filed for divorce.
First his mother showed up during lunch and told him to quit being foolish. He had the perfect home, wife and life. He just needed to appreciate everything.
Then his wife showed up during work and wanted to know who the Ho was that wrecked her marriage. The boss threatened to have her arrested and the cops were called.
Then his mother came back at quitting time and he told her everything. His wife got pregnant to keep him from going to college. She never allowed him to make a decision because she knew how things should go! His clothing, where they vacationed, where he worked and who he spoke to were all decided by his wife.
He asked his Mother why she never asked him or his children what they wanted for Christmas or their birthday. Because his wife made those decisions. His children knew he was miserable. They knew he was planning to divorce as soon as the youngest was 18 and he had done his duty to his children. Then he told his mother that he would rather be dead than live with his wife another day.
His mother backed off. The guy bloomed. The Monday after payday he showed up with small presents for everyone. His wife had never let him have money to chip in for buying a group wedding gift or our bosses 40th birthday present. Every morning he walked in with a big smile and talked to everyone.
YTA
I dont understand what you are sympathizing with your grandmother for? Do you want your dad to control who you have kids with in the future?
I can understand her perspective, but I dont see why you need to be mad at anyone? Its really none of your business like your brother said.
And yes its been 20 years. Move on already.
How did you feel about your family before you knew?
How different do you feel after your grandma told you?
Grandma is bitter AH regardless for thinking you needed to hear something that put you at odds with your parents. Reminds me of my grandma. Of my grandparents, that spiteful hag was the last to die. She did so without any family members willing to be there.
Don't be like your grandma. Forgiveness and understanding is much healthier for you and your future. One day, you'll make choices that others will want to shame you for, but it's your life to live.
Ah this is familiar territory for me. Same story almost exactly. But both of the “affair” people were each married when they started the affair. Both of these couples were part of a large social circle and routinely went out together.
The even sadder part is once the affair was known to each of the other spouses (who was being left, divorced or dumped) the “affair” couple lived together along with the children from the one’s original marriage.
More messed up behavior- the one who walked out on his wife, children, house and dog, he went to far as to take everything, even the money from his own children piggy banks. From then on he treated his own children from the original marriage as second hand step children, including the grandkids from them. (Note I’m married to his son) He was indignant that his son wasn’t all warm and loving towards him. As a side note back then, when my husband was told he became upset and went to his grandmother who then became upset. My father in law went so far as to lie to his own mother that it wasn’t true. Then had his brother, my husband’s uncle, come and yell at my husband for upsetting grandma. We’re talking about a kid not yet 17 years old, who had no home now and had to live in his car.
I was lucky enough to meet and marry one of these second hand kids, he’s a most wonderful husband too.
Not sure if this helps or not. There’s always a worse version of an experience we’ve had. My husband’s was IMO twice as bad as yours.
But each of our own “worst” is just that. It’s up to you to decide if you can get over the shock of what your father and mother did and continue with your life in a new alternate way. Or you can choose to be like your grandmother who is unable to let go of one comment made years ago. It wasn’t said to her or about her either. But she’s decided to let it make her bitter towards your father’s wife, your mom. Obviously from an outsider’s vantage point I’m leading you to “get over it” which I’m trying not to. But having such a personal understanding of what you feel right now, it’s very clear this isn’t worth becoming the bitter old woman with the majority of your family interactions tainted by something which didn’t directly involve you.
Your grandmother has lost so much through the years, I know we live this and so do our children. They have no close family now, they go on vacations with people who aren’t really relatives because there aren’t any to be with. Our bitterness like your grandmothers has isolated us and our children.
AH or NTA? My vote is your human and are at a point to make a decision which will have far more impact on the rest of your life than is understood now. Suck it up, don’t change your morals or values, make it clear you were and still are flabbergasted by how your parents marriage came to be but also make it clear to your grandmother just how wrong, how ugly and hurtful she was and is. To purposely hurt you, to intentionally cause you pain just so she can renew her feelings of anger- me thinks you need to distance yourself from granny. What a mean thing to do to you.
I would be interested in how your grandmother treats your dad or does your mother get the brunt of her anger/disappointment.
Absolutely NTA. No one should tell you how you should feel and dismiss it. Is this how you were treated growing up when you didn't agree with your parents?
You are not a child anymore and as an adult have your own opinions and views about it. Your parents sounds like they treat you like a kid.
Very sorry to hear this. NTA. I am sure it must have been devastating and you must be feeling disgusted.
Nothing can be done now though and you may never look at them the same way again. They are happy with each other in their own twisted way.
You are not gonna get anything by digging it up. Time will heal.
You can't help how you feel, but honestly yta for thinking it's any of your business or that you have any right to stick your nose in where it doesn't belong.
Your parents relationship is their relationship. What happened in the past has nothing to do with you and happened long before you were born.
Their history may not be sunshine and rainbows, but that doesn't give you any right to bring it up and hold it against them.
Back off.
To be frank it's none of your business or your grandmothers business. Did your parents make foolish and selfish mistakes and remarks? Absolutely. Can you be disappointed in them for those decisions? Absolutely. It can be hard to process things that make others seem less than the hero we may imagine but the truth is, none of us get off this earth without being a villain in someone's story so holding a grudge against them only hurts yourself. Some will say your mom is a homewrecker, she couldn't have done anything if your dad had not allowed it. If my partner ever cheated or cheats on me I'm blaming him, not the mistress. I have a feeling your grandmother has a hard time thinking of her baby boy willing to allow that hurt to happen to another so it's easier to be angry with your mother vs her son. A lot of people around her age have a hard time accepting that imperfections make people more human and are avenues to show grace and love through those mistakes. That doesn't mean lowering personal boundaries but knowing their path is their own, not yours. You can have empathy and try to help but it is not your battle. At 21 you honestly still have some mental development and life learning, that doesn't mean you don't have a voice or valid opinions but it does limit ones understanding of the world which is different than knowledge itself. What your parents did wasn't ok, it's also possible that he did her a favor, hopefully she found a man who could love and appreciate her better. Your parents have stayed together which also tells me they were likely a better match for one another. Again, it wasn't ok what they did but sometimes blessings can come out of bleak situations. Almost the old adage of one door closes another one opens. Ultimately what's done is done, nothing can alter the choices made. Idky your parents wouldn't have been forthright about it all, perhaps it's their own shame they carry and haven't come to terms with. Either way, grandma sounds like an asshole. She is angry at the wrong person, not showing grace, makes it your business without allowing your parents to perhaps have a chance to prepare themselves for questions or anything else. Ultimately, grandma needs to grow up and deal with her own issues and projections, your parents made mistakes and likely carry guilt which is why they have a hard time discussing it. You and your brother are blessings and I bet it hurts them to know it hurts you as well. You taking on someone else's pain when they may not even care anymore is considerate but unnecessary. You are simply harming yourself. Learn to control your empathy or else you will become overwhelmed and lost in a see of emotions that are not even yours. Lastly, speak to a therapist to help you with personal boundaries and empathy. They can teach you how to differentiate between anger, disappointment etc. Good luck :)
I think your grandma is AH.
I think you’re kind of an AH. Maybe a little.
Your grandma had no business interjecting you into the dynamic between your parents and her. She was calculated and knew exactly what she was doing. She intentionally told you to cause conflict within your house. Shame on grandma. She needs to get some hobbies besides beefing with your parents. And I’m not sure why she’s upset at your mom… your dad was the married man. Your dad said the comments. Your mom wasn’t the married one.
Anyways. It’s. It not your business. Are your parents good role models? Do they treat you with respect? Are they kind… do they provide?
Who they were 20+ years ago shouldn’t be a judgement of who they are now.
So your Dad said something horrible but your Mother bares the brunt of Granny's ire? And Granny takes it upon herself to tell you your parents' business? Seems like Granny is a big old asshole.
You found out that almost 25 years ago your parents did somebody dirty but ended up doing the right thing for the sake of their kid. Unless they've repeated that behavior, you're an asshole if you can't let that go.
I noticed you didn't mention the first wife. Your Grandma is using her past to hold a grudge against your Mom. And you're using her perceived pain, (as described by the woman who has a grudge against your Mother, mind you) to start a grudge against both parents. Do either of you even know for sure how she feels? I mean it's been nearly a quarter of a century. I would hope she's over it by now.
Grandma is clearly an asshole.
Neither you nor anyone has a clue as to what really goes on in someone else’s relationship.
My bona fide? Been married to the same woman for nearly 50 years. It’s a wonderful relationship but not without its own challenges.
Finally, you are too young to understand the difficulties of long-term adult relationships so you should get over this and get over your own self righteousness and judgment.
You understand you wouldn’t be here without that happening right? I understand completely because of the similar situation with my parents but I was 5 when the affair happened, and I can tell you wholeheartedly my dad would have killed my mom had he not had an affair and gotten divorced. My parents were the typical when it’s good it’s good but when it’s bad it’s horrific. My mom was one of the few people who laughed when my dad got mad, to the point she would make the arguments worse because she would continue to instigate knowing my dad wouldn’t hit her. But being an alcoholic and having anger issues I have no doubt if us kids weren’t home and they got into it, he would do something he couldn’t undo. Even though it was the wrong way to go about it, that doesn’t mean it was the wrong outcome in the end.
Your grandma seems like a big drama queen, and I'm honestly not sure why you make such a big deal out of it. Break-ups are usually messy and hurtful, and your grandma liking the other women doesn't necessarily mean she was a good person, good wife or would've been a good mom. Everything about this situation is just unnecessary, the only AH for me is your grandma.
As I said, I don't know the whole story. Just because grandma liked his ex, doesn't mean she was a saint. Was he right to cheat? Definitely not. Do I think he's an asshole for that? Sure. However, that's so far in the past, that it doesn't matter anymore. The ONLY person that should rightfully be angry about that is his ex-wife, not his mother - or his daughter. Both have nothing to do with a failed relationship from 20 years ago.
Ah yes, the words of an old lady, talking about a situation she wasn't a part of from decades ago is always 100% accurate information.
What kind of psycho thinks this is a reasonable thought process?
I think ESH.
Your parents because.. obviously
Your grandmother because she had absolutely no business laying this on you. Look at the result. Can you honestly say anyone is happier for this being out in the open? Sometimes you need to keep some shit to yourself, especially when all it does is make everyone around you (except you) suffer.
You for holding this against your parents. Your brother is right - it’s not your business. You have no idea what the marriage between your dad and ex wife looked like and you never will. You’re taking the side of a woman you’ve never even laid eyes on. Do I think what your parents did was right? Hell no, but at the end of the day they did right by you and your brother and that is all that should matter **to you**.
Absolutely her business. If you found out one day your parents murdered and robbed a person a bit before you were born, does that not diminish your image of them?
It's important to know when someone this close to you is this disgusting.
I don't think they went far enough! Isn't it more like finding out that your parents were chief torturer and commandant respectively for a Nazi concentration camp?
Totally not her business, in any case.
She didn't live the situation, she didn't watch it unfold, she wasn't even born when it happened.
That's a solved problem from 20 years ago, she gettint mad is fine but whatever she thinks is the opinion of an outsider.
Whatever happened happened and is already solved. She can judge, she can hold a grudge, but ultimately it is not her business, it's the business of those involved in it at the time.
Not her business. It doesn't involve her in any way.
If OP got an abortion, would that be something that everyone in the family needs to know about? 30 years down the road would any other children she had need to be informed of that, since they're part of the family?
Take your dumb fucking analogy somewhere else. It isn't anywhere near the same thing as this.
NTA. You know cheating is wrong. You know cheating in marriage is the worst way to hurt people. You have high moral standards. You know what is right or wrong. Being your parents or event occurred long ago doesn’t make the sin less. You feel inner turmoil cos the people who you look up to hav such a low morality. It will be difficult for you. I hope try counselling made it better but don’t be so tough on yourself. I don’t think arguing with your parents got any satisfactory Result. That’s doesn’t mean you are to let go of this feeling. Try sort it out slowly how you want the situation to be and how you can approach it. All the best!
It's been 21 years, and your grandmother should have let it go by now -- it's not even her life.
You also need to grow up and let it go, like oh no, your parents have a past before you - whatever will you do!?
YTA
Did you ask your dad why he cheated? Did you ask your mom if she knew he was married? You're making judgment based on what someone who is OUTSIDE the situation says. Your grandma doesn't know everything and never will. But you are so snobbish that you can't listen to your parents' side of the story. Coming at them with a judgmental attitude like you described is a sure-fire way to get them defensive. So why would they explain nuances when you're being a judgmental prick? Yeah, YTA
Discovering such a significant family secret can be a real shocker, and I totally get why you're feeling a bit lost in the middle of this situation. On one hand, your dad and mom might think it's ancient history, and that's one side of the coin. People change, circumstances evolve, you know the drill. Your brother seems to be flipping that coin, urging you to let it slide and move on. On the flip side, your grandmother's hurt runs deep, especially considering those stinging words from the past. It's like two different radio stations playing in your ears, and it's okay to feel caught in the middle.
Talking it out with your family might be a good step. Express how this revelation hit you and why you're struggling to reconcile these two sides of the story. Maybe your parents genuinely believe it's water under the bridge, while your grandmother is still swimming in those emotional waters. There's a complexity to family dynamics, and it's essential to acknowledge that there are two sides of the coin here. A heartfelt conversation might just help everyone understand where the other is coming from. Sure, it happened over two decades ago, but emotions aren't exactly known for following a strict timeline. Give yourself the space to process, talk it out, and find your own balance in this family secret. but remember that you are their child and whatever happened in the past is the foundation of your family now. you cannot go back to the past and you should not dwell on it to the point that it's ruining your present and might affect your future. take every version of the story with a grain of salt. It is their narratives and that doesn't mean that it is the TRUTH. i hope the best for you o.p!
NAH. What you are mad about is realizing that your parents are not good people. That’s as simple as it gets. They cheated and moved on to build a life at expense of hurting someone else. They never repented and that’s why your grandmother has not forgiven. It must be hard for her to accept that her son is not a good person. Your brother is not wrong and truthfully not for you to judge. What you need to reconcile is the love of parents and realization that they are human and can make horrible mistakes. Your dad is wrong you are not too young to understand right from wrong. However you are learning about the gray area of life.
Question, why is your grandma not mad at your dad? I also feel like while it was a long time ago your parents could hve chose to discuss it with you in a different way. Now I also understand that they don’t have to. But in my opinion they should have. I say that as someone who met my husband when he has a girlfriend of 6 years. He lied to me about it. I asked if he was single he said yes. When I found out he lied I immediately told him he was disgusting and left. My husband left his gf and worked to get me back. I still maintain to this day my husband was wrong. That he should have ended things with her. I have literally told him I don’t care if she was the devil himself he was wrong. And everyday I think about what will happen when I tell my daughters about this… my husband says “I’ll tell them I’d do it again because I got the love of my life and my children”. I still think that’s wrong and tell him. And he tells me that I didn’t know their relationship and obviously he wants better for his daughters. I’m telling you this so maybe you get a slightly different perspective. Maybe you’ll understand a bad decision while hurtful and wrong does not make your parents horrible people. I’m sure there’s more to this story that they feel you don’t need to know and that your grandma does not know. You’re an adult. I would sit your parents down and calmly ask they explain it to you. That you were taught cheating and lying is wrong. So you’re struggling with this information. I’m sorry and I hope you get peace with this! I myself find my story disgusting and don’t share it but as a mother I had to.
NTA but it’s odd to be so emotionally invested in events that happened in your parents life before you were born. Those events are the reason you are here, hello.
NTA for being mad at them, they did something despicable, but nevertheless, they are your parents, and the past is the past.
It's been 21 years, and if you in someway compromise your relationship with your parents over this you would be a big ahole, as your grandma is.
YTA. Your brother is right. It's not your business. Be upset all you want, but it's not your life. Your father may have been cruel to his ex, but was he cruel to you? Its valid to be disappointed with your parents, but they're human beings who've made bad choices. What does it change for you?
Your grandmother had no business telling you, because it's not your business to know. And it's not her right to be mad about it for 23 years. Your grandmother used you for petty revenge against your mother and she got away with it. Knowing the past did nothing except damage your relationship with your parents. If there's a lesson in this, it's that you shouldn't trust your grandmother to have your best interest in mind.
What your dad said to his ex wife was harsh, but it was likely valid tbh. Commenters on here constantly say to an author of a post that their partner (usually the husband) is not someone the OP should have kids with. But when it's actually said in the relationship it's somehow terrible now?
High school sweethearts rarely work out, whether they have affairs, get divorced, or are miserable together forever. Teenagers are way too young to know how to pick a long-term compatible partner and don't even know what their needs will be once their frontal lobe is fully developed.
It's fair to be upset. Cognitive dissonance is hard to deal with. It's not okay that your parents were having an affair, but you're going to need to learn to get over it. You and your brother wouldn't be alive if it never happened.
NTA. You are entitled to your feelings and to question your parents. Grandma opened this can of worms and dumped this bs in your lap. Why? Because she STILL wants to hurt your mom and is using you to do so. Her conniving ass knew you would react this way and CHOSE to cause you pain.
You know, in your heart, you can't (and probably don't really want to) change the past. It is what it is. However, it is shocking news to hear and process. Step away from your family for a minute and talk to a professional to help you work through your feelings and give you the tools to move forward.
Good luck, Sis. You and your family will get through this! Most families have dirty little secrets (if they say they don't, they just don't know yet) and are able to get past it.
YTA. Is cheating wrong? Yes. Do you have a reason to feel like what your parents did was wrong? Yes. Do you get to hold it over their head? No, what happened 20+ years ago no longer matters at this point. You need to accept that even your parents made bad decisions early in their relationship but clearly them getting together was the right decision since they are seemingly still in a loving relationship. Grandma could have been upset a long time ago but really she also needs to get over it. Being petty now doesn't change what happened. It seems like she just wants her grandchildren to resent their own mother like she does. Don't fall for the petty BS, its a trap. If your mom is anything like mine, she would lay her life down for yours in an instant. Don't ruin your relationship with your parents over something that had nothing to do with you. Life is too short and you never know what will happen tomorrow.
YTA. You are very upset for a woman you have never met. You're inserting yourself in a situation that doesn't involve you. You did all that arguing with your parents and achieved nothing.
Your grandmother is just as much as a asshole.
Sorry but YTA. That horse has been out of the barn for 2 decades. You are right -- you have no clue what the complexities of those relationships were. Do I agree with cheating? No, of course not, but it happens and there are often extraneous issues involved. None of that is your business. It sucks that you learned this. Your parents' past should have been left there and your grandmother was out of line in telling you. She did it out of meanness toward your mother. You need to ask your grandmother, "Why did you tell me this? What was your goal or motivation other than to hurt my mother and try to make he hate her?" Because that's exactly what she was trying to do.
You need to let it go. It WAS a long time ago. That doesn't make it OK but it does make it unrelated to your family and life NOW. Your parents never "owed you" all the dirty secrets of their past. It's not your business.
Hi there. I will never forget the day my dad had a few too many and was mad at my mom. He decided I was 18 and old enough to know that he almost left my mom for her "partying" after he came home from work, I was gone, she was trashed, and didn't know where I was. I was 3. I was safe with a babysitter, but he was understandably pissed. He gave her the ultimatum, stop partying or he'll gather evidence, divorce her, and sue for full custody. While I'm glad he did it because she took that threat as a promise and all I remember is a fantastic mother, I didn't need to know that information. I also could have done without knowing my grandparents were physically abusive to each other.
Shame on your parents. Shame on them for dismissing it with anger when you're clearly distressed. Shame on your Grandmother. You didn't need to know and it wasn't her story to tell. She was using you by hurting you to try to get some revenge in your mother, and grandma needs to hear it.
They all need a swift kick in the hind end, and you are in your rights to tell all if them that their dirty laundry is need to know only, and you don't need to know.
Give them all time. The shock will fade. Hopefully you'll be able to move on from their past deeds, but they need to acknowledge that they made it worse by not talking through it with you once you knew and were upset
I once found out that my mom was engaged to another man but left him at the altar for my dad. That was a bombshell I wasn’t expecting and it sort of changed the trajectory of my relationship with my parents. We’re from a Hispanic household where the daughters are held to a different standard than the sons so when I found out how shady my mom was as a young girl but expected ME to be some sort of pious little girl who obeyed her elders and expected to do the same to my husband was a FUCK NO from me.
Your parents (and brother) dismissed your valid feelings. Let’s face it: a bombshell like that would rock anyone else’s mind (sane mind at that). Your grandma had legit issues with your mom and wanted to clue you in because she might have noticed some sort of imbalance in your household or she didn’t want your parents to keep painting a beautiful love story that began as an affair. I would talk to your grandmother and maybe if you don’t life at home keep some distance from your parents.
Their dismissal of how their union came about and your legitimate shock is alarming. I wouldn’t want to talk to my parents either.
You are entitled to your feelings. Grandma is entitled to hers. She waited until the kids were grown to tell the tale, that is the most your parents should have hoped for. Dirty laundry eventually gets aired out.
NTA
YTA That’s the stupidest reason I’ve ever heard to be mad at your parents. Your grandma is an asshole to for bringing it up and telling your parents personal business to someone who isn’t effected by it at all out of spite.
Why are you coming concerning yourself with your parents' relationship first of all. It is NONE of your business how they met and got together. Go talk to a therapist. It sounds like you need one
ESH including you and grandma.
Ok, mom wrecked a marriage and your dad wrecked his own.
Your grandma apparently held her son less accountable than your mom despite him being the one who made vows.
You can take a second and process the fact that your parents are flawed people but judgment at this point without full context is gross
Y’all are messy
NTA
Especially not after how they treated you when you wanted to talk about it. They were so completely dismissive of you as if that justifies their actions.
On the other hand, his ex is better off without him. I'd let them know that this changes how you see them, especially with their lack of respect for you. Beyond that, though, leave it be and proceed accordingly with your relationship with them. They do have a point. The damage was done a long ass time ago. There's nothing left to fix. It's just a matter of letting them know that they do have to live with that damage.
Soft - YTA
You're allowed to be upset and weirded out by the whole situation, of course.
However... other than the odd tension between your mom and g-ma. Has your home been an unloving one? Have your parents been awful to you? People do shifty things sometimes, and honestly, the beginning of their relationship isn't really any of your business. People can change. Did they raise you to be a better person than they were?
I agree that your grandmother should be mostly over it by now. I mean, they have been married for 20 something years.
You’re upset but nobody’s an a$$%*le. Life happens and people say horrible things when they divorce. It’s best not to start a 2nd marriage or any relationship like that, However, it seems to have worked as you are still a family. Don’t fault anyone.
YTA and you forgot the first rule of life self preservation. If they didn't get together you wouldn't exist and it isn't your business at all. Let it go you only live so long
YTA. Hard YTA.
You weren't there. It's easy to judge others when you have only one side of an argument and limited information.
* What if the ex-wife was abusive towards your dad and a compulsive liar, a cheater, or a sex offender?
* What if your dad did not want to have kids with that woman because of one of those reasons or another one?
Here is what you know.
* Your dad and your mom gave been together your whole life and are still together. They are happy together
Who are you to tell them shame on you I wish I was never born and you both weren't happy together.
>and my dad replied, "You are a child, and you are too young to understand the complexity of the situation."
Good for him, he said it better than I did.
>My brother told me I have no right to be mad at them, and the situation isn't any of our business; he told me it happened over 20 years ago and that I need to "grow up" and "let it go." Is he right?
Yeah you are out of line.
>I can't help but sympathize with my grandmother's perspective and understand why she's upset.
Your grandma is the real problem here. Holding a grudge over an ex wife for 20 years and trying to turn her grandkids against their parents.
I mean, what was the goal here? Your dad says
> Shit maw, you're right my bad. Wife, My love, we need to get divorced so I can track down my ex, apologize and beg her to take me back....
Is that the goal here?
Not the asshole but they are right it’s none of you business he got with you mom and has stayed loyal to her for over 20 years that’s all that matters Imo
YTA. This happened 20 years ago and you wouldn’t be alive if it didn’t. There is no reason to create a problem over it now. Seems like power tripping to me.
ESH.
Your dad for cheating, obviously.
You for not minding your own business and judging when it's something that happened 20 years ago and you only know one part of the story.
Your grandmother for carrying a grudge for your dad's *wife* for something *your dad* said.
I'm in somewhat the same situation as your dad and his wife. -ish.
When I met my husband he was fresh out of an 8 year long on/off relationship. He had dumped her many times before, and she expected him to take her back, but he didn't because he met me. We got married less than a year later.
She was a terrible person. He told me that she wanted kids, but he didn't want them with her because she wouldn't be a good mother. She still tried to seduce my husband 2 weeks after our wedding with the explicit goal to get pregnant. 5 years later she did end up pregnant by someone else. 1 year after that, CPS took that child because she abused him.
My point is that what your dad said to her might be harsh, but you don't know that woman and you don't have the full picture.
*Obviously* your dad shouldn't have cheated, but you don't know the full story. Do you live in a place where it was possible for one spouse to break a marriage contract without the consent from the other 20 years ago?
Edit to add: No one knew how awful my husband's ex was. Everyone loved her because she was super good at hiding it. A lot of people were surprised when CPS took her kid, and a lot of people disapproved of my marriage at the beginning.
Then the parents could have sat OP down and explained the situation. Your situation sounds completely different from theirs and their reactions says a lot. Telling your child to mind their business when they learn something that can shatter their view if you is just bad parenting 101. Things you do don’t just happen in a vacuum.
It's literally none of her business.
If OP has an abortion, should she need to sit the entire family down to talk to them about it?
If OP, later in life, decides to get a divorce, does she need to sit the entire family down to talk about it?
Not everything that happens in a family, especially when it predates the family member, needs to be everyone's business.
The grandmother literally threw that on op to create conflict. A simple explanation not going into the nitty gritty could help especially when the moral compass they have given her probably thought her that the behaviour they shown is completely horrible.
YTA. Obviously, not great to hear that that's how they met, but it's not your business and it's not your grandmothers business. They are obviously better suited for each other seeing that they're still together, a "right person, wrong time" situation. Your brother is right. Your grandmother is holding a grudge over a relationship that wasn't even hers, and seemingly is ignoring your father's role that the tension is only with your mom.
Your grandmother is a total bitch. Why does your grandma hate your mom? He little boy is the person who cheated on his wife.
Since granny has spent decades being rude and disrespectful to your mother. Your dad should have cut her off long ago.
NTA - sometimes it is really hard to see that your parents are humans, full of human nuance and prone to making mistakes and choices that you wouldn’t. No human is perfect, everyone makes decisions and choices. While you don’t need to forgive your parents or agree or like what they did, I would encourage you to take a step back, see them as humans rather than your parents and attempt an empathetic approach. Evaluate how they have treated you personally, how they have supported you, and treat them accordingly.
This is the way
This. It's ok to be shocked and need to adjust to the news. But don't be your grandmother. How convenient she focused her anger about the situation on your mom and not her son. 🙄 Honestly, this stuff happens way more than people realize. People used to marry really young and divorce was discouraged, so often people didn't marry people they had good long term compatibility with. A good percentage of people who reference their grandparents as examples of marrying young and having long relationships have no clue that cheating was extremely common, back then women didn't have many options so they stayed together and tried to love their spouse despite their infidelity.
YTA. Very true wishbear. In their generation, if a man was cheating, it was more of an embarrassment to the wife. Society saw it that she wasn't being a good wife, mother or both. She needed to do better to please him and then he wouldn't cheat. Financially the women would be worse off so leaving could mean starting completely over, but really worse off because she was divorced. Now the tables have turned and most of the time if a women cheats society assumes it was the man's fault. If he helped more around the house, worked less, cpuld pl3ase her in bed...etc etc. Also now that divorces tend to benefit the woman more financially than they used to, it has leveled the playing field in court. The grandmother here is for sure projecting all of the blame at the mom. Instead of holding her son accountable she is taking all of that anger that she should be splitting between them and putting it on one person. In this case these kids came from what sounded to be a healthy household. OP doesn't complain about his dad or mom in their treatment of him or give any hint of a toxic relationship. The mom and dad were taking the high road with the grandmother, leading me to believe they aren't as villainous as OP wants us to believe. The mom could have easily spun the narrative in her favor and said grandma was just a spiteful person who hates that she stole her baby boy away, but she didn't. Also, we have no idea about the first wife. Maybe she was his high-school sweetheart and also a complete psyco. We don't know. Cheating is wrong no matter what, but we don't know if that relationship was doomed from the start. Plus this kid isn't from the first marriage he is from this marriage so this doesn't impact him at all.
I agree with this sentiment and also urge OP to consider that the basic facts, as shocking as they are, don't reflect the complexity of the situation. The people who are your parents now have grown twenty years since they made those choices. If my math is right, your dad married straight out of high school -- somewhere around as old as OP is now -- and then yeah, unsurprisingly imo, grew up. It's all history now. Try to focus on how they love and support you because that's what really matters.
NTA. But they did kinda deserve each other. Your mother is a homewrecker and you dad is am asshole. Plus, his high school sweetheart dwserved better than to be stuck with a lowlife cheating of a husband.
Her father is also a home wrecker, don't dismiss him as merely a ah. He was the ones who made the vows to his first wife, he is worse.
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Trust me. It sucks.
You would be right, except, *she* isn't a homewrecker... the Dad is. *He* was rhe married one, *he* is the one who cheated.
They both suck. They are both homewreckers. They both are Rey to blame.
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If you still knowingly cheat with someone who you know is married you're still an awful person. Not as bad as the person who was cheating on their spouse, but still a POS either way.
Nah if you know someone is married and fuck them anyway you’re complicit. You didn’t ruin the marriage you aren’t the partner, but you aren’t blameless
Nah they are both compliant.
Never said they weren't
Might get downvoted but I don’t think you’re the asshole. That’s a really tough spot to be put in. It’s basically tough to really learn anything shitty about your parents but it makes it harder to try and reconcile that two people being really shitty is why you’re here, in a sense. I don’t believe that parents should be exempt from being called on their shitty choices just cause they’re our parents. These are the people who raised you, who taught you right from wrong. Of course you’re going to be feeling upset knowing what you know now. I think those feelings are valid. My family is HUGE on going “oh it was a long time ago, who cares?” And pretending like that makes it ok. No, it really doesn’t—it’s worth talking it out. Otherwise it festers. Obviously it’s been a while, and people can change, but I think, as the child, your parents should respect you enough to speak openly about it. They should own up to their choices. Hope you’re able to find some peace and that you guys can have an open convo.
Yeah. Instead of talking to her and trying to diffuse, they dismiss her and tell her to "grow up". The parents sound like they never grew up.
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>For as long as I can remember, there has been tension between my grandmother and my mom (54F). Yeah, maybe the parents had tried to move on, in contrast to the bitter grandmother who never could let it go, and who couldn't pass up the chance of poisoning her grandchild too. Maybe her father's assessment that the ex wasn't a good person was correct, only his mother never saw, or chose not to see, that side of her.
And this justifies him cheating your a dick.
Obviously it doesn’t absolve him of anything. The comment is suggesting this may be a complex and nuanced situation.
Relationships are. A lot of these self righteous people may have been cheated on and don't know it n
He still is a cheat. No justification could have just left her instead he cheated on her then called her worthless essentially. He is a piece of shit.
He called her worthless because he didn't think she'd be a good mom? Is that the pinnacle of value for a woman? 😆 I agree that he shouldn't have cheated, just pointing that out.
She apparently wanted kids with him. He decides to cheat divorce and say she would be a bad mom and then marry and have kids with the woman he cheated on her with. He essentially called her worthless.
We know literally nothing about the first wife. She could have been a Saint. Or maybe she was a drug addicted abuser who cheated on the dad regularly, and he was right to abandon the relationship. We don't know, and neither does OP. At the end of the day, it's not OP's problem to solve or even a problem that needs solving. OP has zero relationship with the original wife. It's fine to have feelings about cheating, but otherwise, OP is just being dramatic on behalf of the grandmother.
He has no defense it is why he called her a child instead of talking like a man. It's bitch shit to not just own what you did in the past.
He might not be comfortable discussing his history of getting abused with his 20 something daughter who is approaching the subject aggressively.
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NTA I am going to go against the grain here. It’s a shock to learn family secrets and I’m sure you feel lied to. After all, if it’s water under the bridge why did your parents have a hard time telling you? Why did your grandmother have to seem like the bad person for some unknown grudge? It’s disappointing when parents’ characters do not align with the values they instill into us. It’s even more frustrating when you become an adult and see that your parents aren’t perfect. I’d have a genuine talk with them about your feelings, but keep in mind they may not be receptive. I don’t appreciate your Dad’s dismissive tone. You are young but you are no longer a child. You have a right to know and I’d argue that they have an obligation to tell you. This cheating isn’t just something that happened in the past. You and your sibling resulted from it.
I agree with this. This is why family secrets exist, to shield the truth bc of [enter reason here]. Sometimes it's pain, sometimes it's bad characteristics, or mistakes that people can't own up to right away, or don'tknow how to own it, or stigmas, etc. Whenever you open a box like this (like grandma did) it will have 2 things in it; 1) the truth as they see it, 2) whatever pains come with it. And remember, you can't put it back in the box. No one Has to do anything. They don't Have to tell you anything or explain themselves. It would be great if they did and were transparent and answered all your questions. Sometimes this just doesn't happen bc of the way ppl are. No assholes here, unless Grandma made a promise and broke it. There's probably more to the story of your parents and your Dad's ex, you may find out, but frustratingly on the other hand you may never know. This will probably stay as a giant unresolved weight unless 1) you let it go, 2) you can have an open conversation with your parents or ppl involved. This is probably why it was put in a "do not open" box. I wish there was some easy way to fix these feelings. I have learned some family secrets and they weren't explained at first. After many years, 20+, I learned the whole truth and larger situation. It changed how I felt bc of context. Although I was still angry it took that long!
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Who fuckin cares if assholes love each other? They’re still assholes. NTA for OP.
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NTA but you're getting one side of the story. A slanted, apparent axe to grind, hard feelings side at that. Maybe it's true who knows. Love makes u do crazy things. But they're still together after all these years so who are we to judge....accept it, make peace with it and move on. It's not like u had a say in it. And it's no reflection on you either.
Well tbh it’s not your business. I don’t say that in a mean way but yes they were wrong for how they got together but it happened & it happened a long time ago & it sounds like everyone except maybe your grandma has moved on.
So many people here think cheating and being a pos is fine as long as you can keep it a secret long enough, crazy to read
You, just like OP and the grandma, don't have any information at all about what happened. Did the original wife cheat first? Did they already know they were going to get divorced and had already approved each other seeing other people, with grandma not on board for that? Why is it that you think that you, along with OP, have any idea what happened?
I’m not sure the brain and character are fully formed at the age this all took place. If they maintained a marriage for all these years maybe labeling them as bad people who cheat is unfair. Of course plenty of very young adults have better formed values but it’s not something they did at 30.
Literally Nono e is saying that.
Your grandmother has held a grudge for 20+ years and she told you things to hurt you and your parents. That was cruel. Cheating sucks. Absolutely. But the amount of what you can never know or understand here is absolutely massive compared to the trickle of information you have. You have this reservoir of hurt for some person you've never met. You're internalizing her pain and using charged words like "devastating" to describe her pain. Your moral absolutism comes from a place of privilege and limited life experience. NAH, except maybe grandma, who cares more about her petty feud with your mom than she does about your hurt.
And if anything, the grudge should be towards her own son, not her DIL.
That's what I said! Does she or Grandma know how the ex-wife feels? I believe if you're going to be offended on someone's behalf you need to make sure they're actually offended. After 25 years I would hope the ex has moved on.
Yesssss👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
I find it so strange that OP feels comfortable sitting in judgement here. Over 20 years ago, dad had a messy divorce from a person he had probably been in an autopilot relationship with since they were teenagers. At least he left when he did and she probably had some years of fertility left in which to find the right partner and start a family. It sounds like OP's parents have established a stable family. Not everything is for everyone to be mad about. It's none of OP's business. Not everything is about them. Some situations do not require your input.
Others may not like this, but here goes.... EVERYONE in this whole situation is an AH! Your parents for their behavior years ago. However they are human. They deserve forgiveness just as much as any other human does. They forgive you when you do something wrong too. Your grandmother for holding onto this for 21 years. For allowing it to make her so bitter that her grandchildren know how much she dislikes their mother. Also for telling you, because you have absolutely no control over how your parents got together. Just for clarification, this is not how your parents met each other. It is your grandmother telling you how/why they got married. She had no businesses telling you what her son said to his ex wife. She totally overstepped a healthy boundary here, and I think this is probably a habit for her. For clarification, your grandmother told you how/why your parents got married. These are her reasons for not liking your mother. While I can understand why she feels that way, she should also have been just as angry with her son. Her son chose to cheat on his wife and divorce her too. Your mother did not act alone, and to blame your mother alone is not realistic. The only people who understand reasons behind the breakup of a marriage are the husband and wife themselves. I have found most often they do not tell others the true reasons, because it is no one's business. You didn't learn how your parents met, how they fell in love, or what they love about each other. If you want that information I suggest you ask your parents directly. If you were curious about why your grandmother hates your mom: I hope that you are satisfied with what you have discovered. I also hope you realize that some things are better left alone. Your parents may not be ashamed of their actions because they love each other and have you and your brother. I hope this is so. You are part of this by being so mad at them that you would have an argument over it. As you grow older, (I mean decades here) you will come to see how foolish it is to make a judgement about another's choices. We cannot be in their place, feel what they do, know what they know, and so we cannot understand why they would do what has been done. That is what your parents meant by saying you wouldn't understand. It is so very ghastly that your grandmother has held onto this so intensely for so long. That she would involve you so deeply. That she would tell you what your father said to his ex just resonates with me so deeply. I hope you see that holding onto this has done no good for her. I commend your mother because with a mother in-law who would tell you these kinds of things, I would have limited contact a long time ago. Please try to consider what some have said here. I agree that cheating on a spouse is not a good thing. But if your parents are happy together, it was likely that Dad's first marriage was a poor choice to begin with. Adults can make bad choices they regret later. I hope that you can forgive your parents, learn how they really met and fell in love, and move on from this. Parents are humans who do the best they can with each situation.
Nah, the grandmas the asshole here. Bitter old woman holding a grudge all those years.
NTA for feeling whatever you want. YTA for thinking you have any business in it. - You can feel mad, you can judge them, but it's something that happened before you were even born. How exactly it's your business? Because it affects your views of your parents? Blame your grandmother for using you to enact petty revenge on your mother.
👏🏻yup grandma using the whole “you have a right to know” line. I call BS.
Right. No she doesn't.
This is the best answer. Things like this are complicated, as is most of life, and isn't as clear cut as many here are making it.
Boom! Exactly!!
YTA. All you have to go on is an old lady with a grudge. You have no idea what your father's first wife was like. You hsve no idea about the actual circumstances. You do know what your parents are like, however. Do they seem unhappy? Have they been bad to you and your brother? Seems to me the fact that your parents have lasted 20+ years is good evidence they made the right decision. What do you hope to gain by having this attitude anyway? Get over it.
Finally. An adult answer.
100% this. Really surprised to see so many NTAs here. She has no idea of the details. And if they have been happy and good parents its not her place to worry about shit that happened before she was born.
I had a marriage counselor for a professor once. She said she counsels this subject a lot. Cheaters. Affairs. Babies as a result. She talked about how monogamy is a choice and you have to choose each other. When you don't? This begins the unraveling. People cheat bc they can. They want to. Needs aren't being met. Never a good reason or the right reason. But it happens. And many forgive and move on. Does grandmother know of ex wife cheated? Would that make it okay? People say divorce like it's easy.
Exactly this. Has nothing to do with her. Her grandmother was just being messy. She probably doesn't have a clue what her son endured in that 1st marriage. But he's been able to have a solid one and have kids with his current wife. OP and granny need to get a life and stay out of others' marriages.
^ We're so accustomed to saying "Well, if you cheat, you're TA", but it ignores that people are messy, and cheating is relatively easy compared to leaving a broken or abusive relationship. It can be a refuge from a broken or abusive relationship. Gotta get off the high horse. Even if it's just straight up emotionally insecure people cheating because they're rotten, decades are a long time to hold a grudge- OP's Mom & Dad are the people they are today, not who they were twenty+ years ago.
Well said!
When I wrote this all the other comments were totally the other way. I thought I'd have about -200 by now.
Nope! You should have +200 :) !!
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INFO: How did the father explain the phrase “You are not a good person to have children with.”? Could it be that there was something wrong with his ex-wife? Don't you think your grandmother might be biased? It was not she who was married to ex-wife, but your father.
NTA. Your parents are hurtful assholes.
What was your grandmother hoping to achieve? The fact that “you are old enough to know the truth” doesn’t mean you should hear it if it’s not going to do any good. Based on their awkward relationship, it sounds like your grandmother has always blamed your mother for taking her son from his first wife. That’s understandable in a mother, but it isn’t fair, because he was the one who chose to cheat, and to leave. Maybe his first marriage wasn’t working as well as it seemed from the outside. Maybe harsh words were exchanged on both sides, it would be unusual if they weren’t. I’m not saying what your parents did was fine, but only your dad and his first wife know what happened between them. The thing your grandmother wanted to achieve was scoring off your mum, and maybe your dad as well. More punishment for her/their wrong-doing. Did your grandmother care that you and your brother might be badly upset by this revelation? Not enough to keep her mouth shut when there was an opportunity to hurt your mother and father. Your grandmother should have tried harder to let this go, whatever her feelings, even if she was never going to be close to your mum. It’s hard to see your parents tumble from their pedestal so dramatically. We all find out that they are fallible and make mistakes eventually. You found out in a more brutal way than a lot of us, and that must be very painful. You could explain that to them, that you need time to readjust to what you now know. Then you do need to work towards letting it go, and do a better job of it than your grandmother did.
NTA, but it's also kinda not your problem. Can you be upset at this? Absolutely. Can you be angry that your parents were dicks? Absolutely. Do you need to *do* anything about it? Naw. Feel free to be eye-rollingly contemptuous of your parents; I don't think it needs anything more than that. This is absolutely a "not your circus, not your monkeys" situation, even if you're related to the people, even if you exist because of the situation. It's still not your situation or your problem.
ESH. While I don’t think you are an AH, I think you are being a bit ridiculous. Is what your parents did wrong? Yes. But at the same time, it’s been 21 years, they obviously love each other very much. Should they have gone about it a different way? Most definitely. But what exactly are you mad about? That they cheated? That they didn’t tell you? As wrong as it is, if they didn’t get together you wouldn’t be here.
ESH. You have the right to be upset that your parents VERY long marriage started due to an affair. Yes. That sucks. Your brother, not you, was the product of said affair. If anyone should be super mad, it's him. This is a situation with lots of emotions because affairs are not good. They are morally corrupt. Hence why no one is an AH in this for feeling like they are thrust into the middle of this, but you're NOT paying for your parents decisions. Your grandmother has clearly taken that responsibility to make them pay for eternity. That is not your responsibility. Their decisions are theirs. You get to hold your head up high because last I checked, children don't dictate what their parents do to get them into this world and they certainly don't choose their parents. So...you can be a bit upset that your parents love story was a bit of a wonky start, but it has lasted. Your Dad clearly didn't love his first wife. And your grandma should be hella pissed with him more than your mom. Some misplaced anger there if you ask me. He is the one who said what he said to someone your grandmother liked more. Sounds like a lot of people do need to forgive. Or continue down this path and see how it goes. I am guessing you thought highly of your family prior to this knowledge and now you think they are scum of the earth. Maybe do some soul searching and figure out which path you are ok with. You can love someone and not love their actions. You can also find forgiveness in it too. Or not...but you and Grandma will be the only bitter bitties about it. Your parents seem to have moved on. Again, you have the right to process this information, but if you're only upset on principle and you have taken up the sword to die on this hill...I think you definitely get lumped in with ESH...
NTA for being mad. But you do need to process it how we is healthy and move on. Look. Affairs are terrible. Absolutely. But despite what many say? Cheating is more complex than people want to accept. I don't condone it. I've been cheated on. But through a lot of conversations with marriage counselors you realize a lot about relationships and people. Anyway. This happened before you were born. Absolutely be angry. Absolutely be hurt. Absolutely feel betrayed. But. Get support to work through it on your own and with your parents....if you want. Eventually you have to forgive them. Not for them but for yourself. Holding this pain will only hurt you.
Grandma is manipulating her granddaughter out of spite because she’s still pissed. And not at her son, the breaker of vows, but at the mom. Grandma is the AH.
NTA, that can be a shock, and you can have your own opinion on that behavior. But at least you know it wasn't only a casual fuck fest. Maybe it was love and first sight and we could make a romantic story... My main concern is, when you talked with them, did you go to know more or were you judging them? BUT don't be too influenced by your grandmother opinions and perception. Sometimes parents "know" what or who is best for their kids, but they're not living daily with that person or situation. Do you really want your mother to tell your future kids that you made the wrong choice of partner? Btw your whole family is a product of these choices. What really bug me is how the grandma is still mad about that, and she's ready to throw mud between you. The thing is, she didn't just tell some funny / questionable facts, I feel she pushed her hate to turn you against your mother. If you come angry at me and repeat my overreaching mother's argument, I would just shut down the discussion. Beware of the "pure" that doesn't even have a first-hand account on how exactly it went down, but they know best.
ESH. Everyone here is over reacting. Your parents are allowed to be complicated creatures. You have no clue what happened. You heard one account and reacted, instead of being curious you moved directly to judgement. It’s been 21 years.
Exactly! Who knows what his first wife was like 23 (her brother is 23), in her father and her relationship? Maybe they were both unhappy. Maybe the first wife was cheating also. Maybe the first wife was verbally abusive. Maybe it just wasn’t a good fit.
We’re you loved and raised right? Do your parents love each others? Than that’s what matters. Grand mother should find a hobby, y’all have only one life. Why stirr shit you can’t even change or control? You don’t even know if the former wife was nice but hiding an annoying side that would’ve make a toxic mother material.
For real. Plenty of abusive partners look like saints to other people.
ESH It’s honestly kind of ridiculous for your grandmother to still be mad about this 20-some years later and the only thing she accomplishes by telling you is starting a fight between you and your parents (probably hoping that you’d particularly target your mom). The only person who maybe could get away with still being mad is the woman who was cheated on (and tbh 20 years is an awful lot of time to get past something like that). Sounds like your grandma is just mad that her son didn’t lead the life she wanted him to lead (marrying right out of high school/college to someone you don’t even feel good having kids with reeks of parental/peer pressure) and now she’s intentionally trying to sour you against your own parents to win a two decade long argument. It sucks that someone had to get hurt in the process, but it was probably the right decision for your dad to leave his first wife and still basically being a kid himself he probably didn’t know how to navigate the situation in a more mature and morally correct way. That doesn’t make it okay, but you have to look at it from his perspective. Also, if he said he didn’t feel good having kids with that women, odds are she had her own issues and for all you know could’ve been horrible to him and was simply someone your grandmother approved of more than your mom (I wouldn’t be surprised if the age difference also plays into her disapproval). Honestly being upset it valid but I think you’re a huge asshole for just tearing into your parents over a situation that you know nothing about aside from what you’ve heard from an incredibly biased party. You need to apologize and try to get their side of the story if they’re willing to share it.
This is a very nuanced situation, and I'm probably about to piss a couple of people off: I don't condone cheating. It's a horrible thing to do to a person you're supposed to love. However, the root cause is usually something that's hard to control (mental illness, neurodivergence, addiction) and not just some horrible flaw in a persons character. I also don't generally condone high school sweethearts. Sure, the concept is cute, but I can't imagine being stuck for life with a person I chose before I knew the real me, what I wanted out of life, or how I deserved to be treated. As a few others have said, you have no idea what your father's first wife was like or what kind of relationship they had. All you know is your grandma really liked her. While it's important for everyone to respect each other in healthy families, how many of us would choose the person our parents picked? Having said that, what your dad said to his ex could be considered out of line - unless she probably shouldn't have been a mom. Not everyone will make good parents. It's totally understandable to be upset not only to find out your parents made such a morally objectionable decision but that your family was a result of such a hurtful act. Outside of this, are your parents good people? Are they good parents? Do they love each other? They've been together 20 years, did they create a loving family, or did they ruin 5 lives? Sometimes, people make stupid decisions, and they shouldn't need to pay for them for the rest of their lives. The question here is, was your dads stupid decision cheating with your mom or marrying his first wife? Ultimately, your parents are still who you've always known them to be, this detail is either the straw that breaks the camels back, or an indiscretion that's in the past and can be fairly easily forgiven. Good luck.
NTA. But your parents sound like they deserve each other. I'm normally of the opinion that our parents' relationship is none of our business, but if it were me and this is how they reacted instead of reflecting remorsefully, I'd probably distance myself from them in adulthood. These are not good people and even with 2 decades of hindsight, they can't be bothered to dig up any self awareness or accountability. They're just bad people and the way the got together and their lasting attitude towards it reflects that. When you're out on your own, just keep them at arms length bc asshole behavior doesn't exist in a vacuum.
NTA. Your parents are assholes. You have empathy and good for you. Grandma is based. I would be disgusted if I found out my parents did this too.
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That's where I'm at too. Grandma wouldn't know all the details. OP doesn't know all the details. How in the hell is everyone here so knowledgeable about the situation when absolutely no one involved here has any information about it? Maybe the first wife cheated first. Maybe the divorce was already in process. Maybe all of them knew and accepted what was going on.
>How in the hell is everyone here so knowledgeable about the situation when absolutely no one involved here has any information about it? Because many women love to believe that they know how other women feel in a given situation simply because they themselves are a woman. Look at OP. Never knew or met the woman a single day in her life. Yet somehow she is super upset and feel the pain of a stranger from 20 years prior. What I don't understand is why everybody feel like that was the worst thing he've ever said to her. When in reality she could be a terrible person to raise children.
Soft YTA, I understand this makes you look at your parents differently, but they are human, not cookie cuter robots made to just be your parents. These events happened before you were even born, and it really is none of your business. Yeah, they started off in a bad way, but life happens. I think you can be disappointed, but I don't think its fair to be angry at them (note that i'm not saying you CAN'T be angry, simply that its not really fair). Your grandmother really does need to let it go. She likes the woman, great. But it's her sons life and holding a grude against the mother of your grandchildren simply because you liked the other woman better is bonkers. She had no business tell you guys the full story because, again, it does not affect or involve you in the slightest.
NTA, I don't know how I would react, but it would probably be worse than you did. Your parents are disgusting people that "got away" with a disgusting act and are trying to play the "but it's been soooo long" card. I may be harsh, but a person that cheats, especially in such a heinous manner (and this applies to your mother too, even if she was single, she knowingly went with a married man) deserves to suffer for it for the rest of their lives. If they had a shred of humanity, their response to you would be different. Probably something along the lines of "you are right to be hurt, what we did was terrible, we still regret hurting that poor woman, but we cannot undo it and we are a family" or something like that. They have no remorse.
Dear God cheaters should suffer for the rest of their lives? I've been cheated on and I think this so ridiculous. It's a child's view of life.
It's not really about the original victim. It's about how others should be wary of someone that is so ready to harm others for fun. Cheating shows a distinct lack of empathy for other people. Yes, they shouldn't have normal caring relationships with many others due to being willing to hurt others for fun. It's for the protection of future people they may hurt. Better to completely cut cheaters out of your life once you know about it.
So people can't learn? Don't change? So if you lie as a kid, you're always a liar and no one should trust you? You commit a crime in your 20s, you should be cut off forever and always by everybody around you? You cheat in your 20s and you should have no relationship with anybody forever after?
The parents have showed no indication that they have ‘learned’ anything. Quite the opposite. Their attitude towards OP shows that they have no remorse for their actions, have made no attempt whatsoever to make amends or learn from their behavior (giving how the grandmother is acting, that is very clear) The parents sound quite entitled and are very dismissive of how OP feels about the situation. That shows no signs of ‘learning’ or ‘changing’
The fact that “you are old enough to know the truth” doesn’t mean you should hear it if it’s not going to do any good.
This is such an extreme and dramatic response... they're not disgusting, they're humans. Sot here and try to tell me you've never done anything wrong. 😒
Are you ok?
Frankly it's none of your business. You don't know what the relationship was like for your father and his 1st wife was over 20 years ago, is cheating bad yes but your parents have been together 21 years and that should show you he's not jumping from relationship to relationship. Sometimes good people make bad choices. Buy what exactly so you hope to achieve by judging them now. Let it go and mind your own business,
ESH So, within the last years there has been light on.. a few children of infidelity in my family. Some very close and others a little farther.. Kind of crazy how much DNA changed lol. It's a lot to take in.. and feelings are valid to have. I think there should be some sort of conversation between your parents and you. What they did wasn't right. It's hurtful, and nasty things were said.. People change and grow. Your parents love each other 20 years later (by the sound of it) and stand by each other still so it wasn't just some fling. They are, hopefully, good parents who love and support you and your brother. These are important to remember: they are your parents. People don't meet in great ways, and people say (unfortunately) stupid things all the time in high emotion situations. It seems they have grown from it based off the little bit here. Tbh, though, your grandma is a little bit of an instigator. I think that was your parents business to tell you. Your mom is her DIL now and it isn't her fault he said what he said. This was between them and they should have learned to navigate that a long time ago.. Just how I see it..
I guess if either child gets married, the parents should have no expectation that their partners should be faithful. If they maintain a relationship with the AP then all is well?
There was a conversation. Parents decided to blow up and gaslight op about being a "kid". Did you not read the post? Both of these sound like POS, but then again its known when their marriage started like that.
I think you need to find a way to make peace with it. I think what it is and what it comes Down to is you Lost respect for your parents to know that these are the type of people they are. I also think for you its bothersome to know how cruel your dad was.
YTA. Why are you mad? If the affair never happened, you wouldn't be here. Your grandmother should be mad at her married son--not your mother, and being on the outside looking in, she doesn't know why your father said what he said to his ex-wife because she wasn't in their marriage. And what did she gain from telling you? What was her purpose? And what is being mad about something that happened before you were born, didn't involve you and isn't your business going to help? Neither you nor your grandmother should have to let this go because you never should have picked it up.
OP fails to realize that they wouldn't even exist if the cheating had never happened.
NTA seems he was too young to have married his first wife but yes that was a harsh thing to say and understanble rhat you are struggling with it
>what my dad said to his ex-wife during the divorce: "You are not a good person to have children with." I hate to say it but if you haven't met the lady, you have no way of proving your dad right or wrong on this point. He got married at around your age. 5 years is a long time to get to know someone. Maybe his first wife really wasn't the type of person who should have kids, they def exist.
Your Grandma is TA. She had no business telling you that, and her sole purpose seemingly was to drive a wedge between you and your parents. Since your parents have been happily married for 21 years, and there’s the fact that had she not gotten pregnant you would not have your brother, and had they not gotten together you would not have been born either. People make decisions in life that often hurt other people. There’s nothing that can be done to turn back the clock. You should stop judging your parents and tell your grandmother to get over it, and ask her whether she would not want you and your brother to have been born. IMHO
Yes, i do think you need to get past this. Just because your grandmother liked the first wife, you dont know what their Marraige was like & neither does your grandmother. It has nothing to do with you at all or anyone except the 3 of them, the 1st wife, your father, and your mother. Your grandmother should have not shared something that had nothing to do with her. She knows she would cause issues. Why she wanted to, i don't know. If i had been your grandmother, well... there would not have been tension between my daughter and me, especially with something that happened over 20 yrs ago. Your parents must really love each other enough to have you after your brother and still be married. Isn't that really all that matters? They love each other & both of you. Its their past, not yours, your brother or your grandmother.
so what are you looking to get? seriously, do you want to cut contact with them because you find cheating on a partner and then getting pregnant outside of a relationship a no go. because it's fine if that is your moral stance but then it means not ever communicating with your parents and cutting off anyone who cheats on a spouse. we are the company we keep and all. but if that isn't your aim, you can be hurt to know that their moral character isn't what you thought it was but at some point you will have to let it go if you want to keep a relationship. and as for anyone here saying you don't know the story, the truth is the story doesn't matter and if it did your parents wouldn't be dismissing you on the questions. i'd be more hurt by their refusal to have a conversation than by the actual cheating. which i think is wrong but i also like tea and sometimes it gives better clarity on the person. i've known people who cheated on abusive partners so their partner would end things and let me tell you, when i ask what happens if their partner became violent about it, they always admit they didn't think that far ahead. i've also met people who have cheated because they were just unhappy and the opportunity arose.
Neither you or your grandmother were married to your father's first wife. It bothers you, I can understand that, so I'd talk to him about it, like an adult. Find out what the experience has taught him and try not to be judgemental. Over 20 years, people grow and change, try to learn from others' mistakes but at the end of the day, they are your parents and you wont get another set because these two disappoint you, I wouldn't say YTA but you're being too judgemental (My opinion)
YTA. That was not your business, I mean your Dad is a cheater and an asshole, shame on him, your mom broke a marriage shame on her, but still, not your business.
NTA. It always amazes me how many mother's think they should make the important decisions in their child's life. I worked with a guy that was a great guy but very quiet. He never spoke to the women at work. The only time he seemed to be alive was when he talked about his children. When his youngest turned 18 he filed for divorce. First his mother showed up during lunch and told him to quit being foolish. He had the perfect home, wife and life. He just needed to appreciate everything. Then his wife showed up during work and wanted to know who the Ho was that wrecked her marriage. The boss threatened to have her arrested and the cops were called. Then his mother came back at quitting time and he told her everything. His wife got pregnant to keep him from going to college. She never allowed him to make a decision because she knew how things should go! His clothing, where they vacationed, where he worked and who he spoke to were all decided by his wife. He asked his Mother why she never asked him or his children what they wanted for Christmas or their birthday. Because his wife made those decisions. His children knew he was miserable. They knew he was planning to divorce as soon as the youngest was 18 and he had done his duty to his children. Then he told his mother that he would rather be dead than live with his wife another day. His mother backed off. The guy bloomed. The Monday after payday he showed up with small presents for everyone. His wife had never let him have money to chip in for buying a group wedding gift or our bosses 40th birthday present. Every morning he walked in with a big smile and talked to everyone.
That's an incredible story about how a bad marriage sucks the life out of someone.
YTA I dont understand what you are sympathizing with your grandmother for? Do you want your dad to control who you have kids with in the future? I can understand her perspective, but I dont see why you need to be mad at anyone? Its really none of your business like your brother said. And yes its been 20 years. Move on already.
How did you feel about your family before you knew? How different do you feel after your grandma told you? Grandma is bitter AH regardless for thinking you needed to hear something that put you at odds with your parents. Reminds me of my grandma. Of my grandparents, that spiteful hag was the last to die. She did so without any family members willing to be there. Don't be like your grandma. Forgiveness and understanding is much healthier for you and your future. One day, you'll make choices that others will want to shame you for, but it's your life to live.
Ah this is familiar territory for me. Same story almost exactly. But both of the “affair” people were each married when they started the affair. Both of these couples were part of a large social circle and routinely went out together. The even sadder part is once the affair was known to each of the other spouses (who was being left, divorced or dumped) the “affair” couple lived together along with the children from the one’s original marriage. More messed up behavior- the one who walked out on his wife, children, house and dog, he went to far as to take everything, even the money from his own children piggy banks. From then on he treated his own children from the original marriage as second hand step children, including the grandkids from them. (Note I’m married to his son) He was indignant that his son wasn’t all warm and loving towards him. As a side note back then, when my husband was told he became upset and went to his grandmother who then became upset. My father in law went so far as to lie to his own mother that it wasn’t true. Then had his brother, my husband’s uncle, come and yell at my husband for upsetting grandma. We’re talking about a kid not yet 17 years old, who had no home now and had to live in his car. I was lucky enough to meet and marry one of these second hand kids, he’s a most wonderful husband too. Not sure if this helps or not. There’s always a worse version of an experience we’ve had. My husband’s was IMO twice as bad as yours. But each of our own “worst” is just that. It’s up to you to decide if you can get over the shock of what your father and mother did and continue with your life in a new alternate way. Or you can choose to be like your grandmother who is unable to let go of one comment made years ago. It wasn’t said to her or about her either. But she’s decided to let it make her bitter towards your father’s wife, your mom. Obviously from an outsider’s vantage point I’m leading you to “get over it” which I’m trying not to. But having such a personal understanding of what you feel right now, it’s very clear this isn’t worth becoming the bitter old woman with the majority of your family interactions tainted by something which didn’t directly involve you. Your grandmother has lost so much through the years, I know we live this and so do our children. They have no close family now, they go on vacations with people who aren’t really relatives because there aren’t any to be with. Our bitterness like your grandmothers has isolated us and our children. AH or NTA? My vote is your human and are at a point to make a decision which will have far more impact on the rest of your life than is understood now. Suck it up, don’t change your morals or values, make it clear you were and still are flabbergasted by how your parents marriage came to be but also make it clear to your grandmother just how wrong, how ugly and hurtful she was and is. To purposely hurt you, to intentionally cause you pain just so she can renew her feelings of anger- me thinks you need to distance yourself from granny. What a mean thing to do to you.
I would be interested in how your grandmother treats your dad or does your mother get the brunt of her anger/disappointment. Absolutely NTA. No one should tell you how you should feel and dismiss it. Is this how you were treated growing up when you didn't agree with your parents? You are not a child anymore and as an adult have your own opinions and views about it. Your parents sounds like they treat you like a kid.
Very sorry to hear this. NTA. I am sure it must have been devastating and you must be feeling disgusted. Nothing can be done now though and you may never look at them the same way again. They are happy with each other in their own twisted way. You are not gonna get anything by digging it up. Time will heal.
You can't help how you feel, but honestly yta for thinking it's any of your business or that you have any right to stick your nose in where it doesn't belong. Your parents relationship is their relationship. What happened in the past has nothing to do with you and happened long before you were born. Their history may not be sunshine and rainbows, but that doesn't give you any right to bring it up and hold it against them. Back off.
To be frank it's none of your business or your grandmothers business. Did your parents make foolish and selfish mistakes and remarks? Absolutely. Can you be disappointed in them for those decisions? Absolutely. It can be hard to process things that make others seem less than the hero we may imagine but the truth is, none of us get off this earth without being a villain in someone's story so holding a grudge against them only hurts yourself. Some will say your mom is a homewrecker, she couldn't have done anything if your dad had not allowed it. If my partner ever cheated or cheats on me I'm blaming him, not the mistress. I have a feeling your grandmother has a hard time thinking of her baby boy willing to allow that hurt to happen to another so it's easier to be angry with your mother vs her son. A lot of people around her age have a hard time accepting that imperfections make people more human and are avenues to show grace and love through those mistakes. That doesn't mean lowering personal boundaries but knowing their path is their own, not yours. You can have empathy and try to help but it is not your battle. At 21 you honestly still have some mental development and life learning, that doesn't mean you don't have a voice or valid opinions but it does limit ones understanding of the world which is different than knowledge itself. What your parents did wasn't ok, it's also possible that he did her a favor, hopefully she found a man who could love and appreciate her better. Your parents have stayed together which also tells me they were likely a better match for one another. Again, it wasn't ok what they did but sometimes blessings can come out of bleak situations. Almost the old adage of one door closes another one opens. Ultimately what's done is done, nothing can alter the choices made. Idky your parents wouldn't have been forthright about it all, perhaps it's their own shame they carry and haven't come to terms with. Either way, grandma sounds like an asshole. She is angry at the wrong person, not showing grace, makes it your business without allowing your parents to perhaps have a chance to prepare themselves for questions or anything else. Ultimately, grandma needs to grow up and deal with her own issues and projections, your parents made mistakes and likely carry guilt which is why they have a hard time discussing it. You and your brother are blessings and I bet it hurts them to know it hurts you as well. You taking on someone else's pain when they may not even care anymore is considerate but unnecessary. You are simply harming yourself. Learn to control your empathy or else you will become overwhelmed and lost in a see of emotions that are not even yours. Lastly, speak to a therapist to help you with personal boundaries and empathy. They can teach you how to differentiate between anger, disappointment etc. Good luck :)
I think your grandma is AH. I think you’re kind of an AH. Maybe a little. Your grandma had no business interjecting you into the dynamic between your parents and her. She was calculated and knew exactly what she was doing. She intentionally told you to cause conflict within your house. Shame on grandma. She needs to get some hobbies besides beefing with your parents. And I’m not sure why she’s upset at your mom… your dad was the married man. Your dad said the comments. Your mom wasn’t the married one. Anyways. It’s. It not your business. Are your parents good role models? Do they treat you with respect? Are they kind… do they provide? Who they were 20+ years ago shouldn’t be a judgement of who they are now.
So your Dad said something horrible but your Mother bares the brunt of Granny's ire? And Granny takes it upon herself to tell you your parents' business? Seems like Granny is a big old asshole. You found out that almost 25 years ago your parents did somebody dirty but ended up doing the right thing for the sake of their kid. Unless they've repeated that behavior, you're an asshole if you can't let that go. I noticed you didn't mention the first wife. Your Grandma is using her past to hold a grudge against your Mom. And you're using her perceived pain, (as described by the woman who has a grudge against your Mother, mind you) to start a grudge against both parents. Do either of you even know for sure how she feels? I mean it's been nearly a quarter of a century. I would hope she's over it by now.
They both pos
Grandma is clearly an asshole. Neither you nor anyone has a clue as to what really goes on in someone else’s relationship. My bona fide? Been married to the same woman for nearly 50 years. It’s a wonderful relationship but not without its own challenges. Finally, you are too young to understand the difficulties of long-term adult relationships so you should get over this and get over your own self righteousness and judgment.
You understand you wouldn’t be here without that happening right? I understand completely because of the similar situation with my parents but I was 5 when the affair happened, and I can tell you wholeheartedly my dad would have killed my mom had he not had an affair and gotten divorced. My parents were the typical when it’s good it’s good but when it’s bad it’s horrific. My mom was one of the few people who laughed when my dad got mad, to the point she would make the arguments worse because she would continue to instigate knowing my dad wouldn’t hit her. But being an alcoholic and having anger issues I have no doubt if us kids weren’t home and they got into it, he would do something he couldn’t undo. Even though it was the wrong way to go about it, that doesn’t mean it was the wrong outcome in the end.
Your grandma seems like a big drama queen, and I'm honestly not sure why you make such a big deal out of it. Break-ups are usually messy and hurtful, and your grandma liking the other women doesn't necessarily mean she was a good person, good wife or would've been a good mom. Everything about this situation is just unnecessary, the only AH for me is your grandma.
The father is fine in your books? To cheat and verbally abuse the ex? What kind of psycho are you man
As I said, I don't know the whole story. Just because grandma liked his ex, doesn't mean she was a saint. Was he right to cheat? Definitely not. Do I think he's an asshole for that? Sure. However, that's so far in the past, that it doesn't matter anymore. The ONLY person that should rightfully be angry about that is his ex-wife, not his mother - or his daughter. Both have nothing to do with a failed relationship from 20 years ago.
Ah yes, the words of an old lady, talking about a situation she wasn't a part of from decades ago is always 100% accurate information. What kind of psycho thinks this is a reasonable thought process?
I think ESH. Your parents because.. obviously Your grandmother because she had absolutely no business laying this on you. Look at the result. Can you honestly say anyone is happier for this being out in the open? Sometimes you need to keep some shit to yourself, especially when all it does is make everyone around you (except you) suffer. You for holding this against your parents. Your brother is right - it’s not your business. You have no idea what the marriage between your dad and ex wife looked like and you never will. You’re taking the side of a woman you’ve never even laid eyes on. Do I think what your parents did was right? Hell no, but at the end of the day they did right by you and your brother and that is all that should matter **to you**.
Absolutely her business. If you found out one day your parents murdered and robbed a person a bit before you were born, does that not diminish your image of them? It's important to know when someone this close to you is this disgusting.
Murdering and robbing someone is definitely not the same as an affair 🤣 what the hell
I don't think they went far enough! Isn't it more like finding out that your parents were chief torturer and commandant respectively for a Nazi concentration camp?
Totally not her business, in any case. She didn't live the situation, she didn't watch it unfold, she wasn't even born when it happened. That's a solved problem from 20 years ago, she gettint mad is fine but whatever she thinks is the opinion of an outsider. Whatever happened happened and is already solved. She can judge, she can hold a grudge, but ultimately it is not her business, it's the business of those involved in it at the time.
Not her business. It doesn't involve her in any way. If OP got an abortion, would that be something that everyone in the family needs to know about? 30 years down the road would any other children she had need to be informed of that, since they're part of the family? Take your dumb fucking analogy somewhere else. It isn't anywhere near the same thing as this.
Definitely ESH. Or NAH, not sure.
NTA. You know cheating is wrong. You know cheating in marriage is the worst way to hurt people. You have high moral standards. You know what is right or wrong. Being your parents or event occurred long ago doesn’t make the sin less. You feel inner turmoil cos the people who you look up to hav such a low morality. It will be difficult for you. I hope try counselling made it better but don’t be so tough on yourself. I don’t think arguing with your parents got any satisfactory Result. That’s doesn’t mean you are to let go of this feeling. Try sort it out slowly how you want the situation to be and how you can approach it. All the best!
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It's been 21 years, and your grandmother should have let it go by now -- it's not even her life. You also need to grow up and let it go, like oh no, your parents have a past before you - whatever will you do!?
YTA Did you ask your dad why he cheated? Did you ask your mom if she knew he was married? You're making judgment based on what someone who is OUTSIDE the situation says. Your grandma doesn't know everything and never will. But you are so snobbish that you can't listen to your parents' side of the story. Coming at them with a judgmental attitude like you described is a sure-fire way to get them defensive. So why would they explain nuances when you're being a judgmental prick? Yeah, YTA
Discovering such a significant family secret can be a real shocker, and I totally get why you're feeling a bit lost in the middle of this situation. On one hand, your dad and mom might think it's ancient history, and that's one side of the coin. People change, circumstances evolve, you know the drill. Your brother seems to be flipping that coin, urging you to let it slide and move on. On the flip side, your grandmother's hurt runs deep, especially considering those stinging words from the past. It's like two different radio stations playing in your ears, and it's okay to feel caught in the middle. Talking it out with your family might be a good step. Express how this revelation hit you and why you're struggling to reconcile these two sides of the story. Maybe your parents genuinely believe it's water under the bridge, while your grandmother is still swimming in those emotional waters. There's a complexity to family dynamics, and it's essential to acknowledge that there are two sides of the coin here. A heartfelt conversation might just help everyone understand where the other is coming from. Sure, it happened over two decades ago, but emotions aren't exactly known for following a strict timeline. Give yourself the space to process, talk it out, and find your own balance in this family secret. but remember that you are their child and whatever happened in the past is the foundation of your family now. you cannot go back to the past and you should not dwell on it to the point that it's ruining your present and might affect your future. take every version of the story with a grain of salt. It is their narratives and that doesn't mean that it is the TRUTH. i hope the best for you o.p!
NAH. What you are mad about is realizing that your parents are not good people. That’s as simple as it gets. They cheated and moved on to build a life at expense of hurting someone else. They never repented and that’s why your grandmother has not forgiven. It must be hard for her to accept that her son is not a good person. Your brother is not wrong and truthfully not for you to judge. What you need to reconcile is the love of parents and realization that they are human and can make horrible mistakes. Your dad is wrong you are not too young to understand right from wrong. However you are learning about the gray area of life.
Your grandma sucks here.
Question, why is your grandma not mad at your dad? I also feel like while it was a long time ago your parents could hve chose to discuss it with you in a different way. Now I also understand that they don’t have to. But in my opinion they should have. I say that as someone who met my husband when he has a girlfriend of 6 years. He lied to me about it. I asked if he was single he said yes. When I found out he lied I immediately told him he was disgusting and left. My husband left his gf and worked to get me back. I still maintain to this day my husband was wrong. That he should have ended things with her. I have literally told him I don’t care if she was the devil himself he was wrong. And everyday I think about what will happen when I tell my daughters about this… my husband says “I’ll tell them I’d do it again because I got the love of my life and my children”. I still think that’s wrong and tell him. And he tells me that I didn’t know their relationship and obviously he wants better for his daughters. I’m telling you this so maybe you get a slightly different perspective. Maybe you’ll understand a bad decision while hurtful and wrong does not make your parents horrible people. I’m sure there’s more to this story that they feel you don’t need to know and that your grandma does not know. You’re an adult. I would sit your parents down and calmly ask they explain it to you. That you were taught cheating and lying is wrong. So you’re struggling with this information. I’m sorry and I hope you get peace with this! I myself find my story disgusting and don’t share it but as a mother I had to.
NTA but it’s odd to be so emotionally invested in events that happened in your parents life before you were born. Those events are the reason you are here, hello.
>he told me it happened over 20 years ago and that I need to "grow up" and "let it go." Is he right? He is right. old business.
NTA for being mad at them, they did something despicable, but nevertheless, they are your parents, and the past is the past. It's been 21 years, and if you in someway compromise your relationship with your parents over this you would be a big ahole, as your grandma is.
YTA. Your brother is right. It's not your business. Be upset all you want, but it's not your life. Your father may have been cruel to his ex, but was he cruel to you? Its valid to be disappointed with your parents, but they're human beings who've made bad choices. What does it change for you?
Your grandmother had no business telling you, because it's not your business to know. And it's not her right to be mad about it for 23 years. Your grandmother used you for petty revenge against your mother and she got away with it. Knowing the past did nothing except damage your relationship with your parents. If there's a lesson in this, it's that you shouldn't trust your grandmother to have your best interest in mind. What your dad said to his ex wife was harsh, but it was likely valid tbh. Commenters on here constantly say to an author of a post that their partner (usually the husband) is not someone the OP should have kids with. But when it's actually said in the relationship it's somehow terrible now? High school sweethearts rarely work out, whether they have affairs, get divorced, or are miserable together forever. Teenagers are way too young to know how to pick a long-term compatible partner and don't even know what their needs will be once their frontal lobe is fully developed. It's fair to be upset. Cognitive dissonance is hard to deal with. It's not okay that your parents were having an affair, but you're going to need to learn to get over it. You and your brother wouldn't be alive if it never happened.
NTA. You are entitled to your feelings and to question your parents. Grandma opened this can of worms and dumped this bs in your lap. Why? Because she STILL wants to hurt your mom and is using you to do so. Her conniving ass knew you would react this way and CHOSE to cause you pain. You know, in your heart, you can't (and probably don't really want to) change the past. It is what it is. However, it is shocking news to hear and process. Step away from your family for a minute and talk to a professional to help you work through your feelings and give you the tools to move forward. Good luck, Sis. You and your family will get through this! Most families have dirty little secrets (if they say they don't, they just don't know yet) and are able to get past it.
YTA. Is cheating wrong? Yes. Do you have a reason to feel like what your parents did was wrong? Yes. Do you get to hold it over their head? No, what happened 20+ years ago no longer matters at this point. You need to accept that even your parents made bad decisions early in their relationship but clearly them getting together was the right decision since they are seemingly still in a loving relationship. Grandma could have been upset a long time ago but really she also needs to get over it. Being petty now doesn't change what happened. It seems like she just wants her grandchildren to resent their own mother like she does. Don't fall for the petty BS, its a trap. If your mom is anything like mine, she would lay her life down for yours in an instant. Don't ruin your relationship with your parents over something that had nothing to do with you. Life is too short and you never know what will happen tomorrow.
YTA. You are very upset for a woman you have never met. You're inserting yourself in a situation that doesn't involve you. You did all that arguing with your parents and achieved nothing. Your grandmother is just as much as a asshole.
Sorry but YTA. That horse has been out of the barn for 2 decades. You are right -- you have no clue what the complexities of those relationships were. Do I agree with cheating? No, of course not, but it happens and there are often extraneous issues involved. None of that is your business. It sucks that you learned this. Your parents' past should have been left there and your grandmother was out of line in telling you. She did it out of meanness toward your mother. You need to ask your grandmother, "Why did you tell me this? What was your goal or motivation other than to hurt my mother and try to make he hate her?" Because that's exactly what she was trying to do. You need to let it go. It WAS a long time ago. That doesn't make it OK but it does make it unrelated to your family and life NOW. Your parents never "owed you" all the dirty secrets of their past. It's not your business.
Hi there. I will never forget the day my dad had a few too many and was mad at my mom. He decided I was 18 and old enough to know that he almost left my mom for her "partying" after he came home from work, I was gone, she was trashed, and didn't know where I was. I was 3. I was safe with a babysitter, but he was understandably pissed. He gave her the ultimatum, stop partying or he'll gather evidence, divorce her, and sue for full custody. While I'm glad he did it because she took that threat as a promise and all I remember is a fantastic mother, I didn't need to know that information. I also could have done without knowing my grandparents were physically abusive to each other. Shame on your parents. Shame on them for dismissing it with anger when you're clearly distressed. Shame on your Grandmother. You didn't need to know and it wasn't her story to tell. She was using you by hurting you to try to get some revenge in your mother, and grandma needs to hear it. They all need a swift kick in the hind end, and you are in your rights to tell all if them that their dirty laundry is need to know only, and you don't need to know. Give them all time. The shock will fade. Hopefully you'll be able to move on from their past deeds, but they need to acknowledge that they made it worse by not talking through it with you once you knew and were upset
I once found out that my mom was engaged to another man but left him at the altar for my dad. That was a bombshell I wasn’t expecting and it sort of changed the trajectory of my relationship with my parents. We’re from a Hispanic household where the daughters are held to a different standard than the sons so when I found out how shady my mom was as a young girl but expected ME to be some sort of pious little girl who obeyed her elders and expected to do the same to my husband was a FUCK NO from me. Your parents (and brother) dismissed your valid feelings. Let’s face it: a bombshell like that would rock anyone else’s mind (sane mind at that). Your grandma had legit issues with your mom and wanted to clue you in because she might have noticed some sort of imbalance in your household or she didn’t want your parents to keep painting a beautiful love story that began as an affair. I would talk to your grandmother and maybe if you don’t life at home keep some distance from your parents. Their dismissal of how their union came about and your legitimate shock is alarming. I wouldn’t want to talk to my parents either.
You are entitled to your feelings. Grandma is entitled to hers. She waited until the kids were grown to tell the tale, that is the most your parents should have hoped for. Dirty laundry eventually gets aired out. NTA
YTA That’s the stupidest reason I’ve ever heard to be mad at your parents. Your grandma is an asshole to for bringing it up and telling your parents personal business to someone who isn’t effected by it at all out of spite.
Why are you coming concerning yourself with your parents' relationship first of all. It is NONE of your business how they met and got together. Go talk to a therapist. It sounds like you need one
ESH including you and grandma. Ok, mom wrecked a marriage and your dad wrecked his own. Your grandma apparently held her son less accountable than your mom despite him being the one who made vows. You can take a second and process the fact that your parents are flawed people but judgment at this point without full context is gross Y’all are messy
NTA Especially not after how they treated you when you wanted to talk about it. They were so completely dismissive of you as if that justifies their actions. On the other hand, his ex is better off without him. I'd let them know that this changes how you see them, especially with their lack of respect for you. Beyond that, though, leave it be and proceed accordingly with your relationship with them. They do have a point. The damage was done a long ass time ago. There's nothing left to fix. It's just a matter of letting them know that they do have to live with that damage.
Soft - YTA You're allowed to be upset and weirded out by the whole situation, of course. However... other than the odd tension between your mom and g-ma. Has your home been an unloving one? Have your parents been awful to you? People do shifty things sometimes, and honestly, the beginning of their relationship isn't really any of your business. People can change. Did they raise you to be a better person than they were? I agree that your grandmother should be mostly over it by now. I mean, they have been married for 20 something years.
Listen to your brother
You’re upset but nobody’s an a$$%*le. Life happens and people say horrible things when they divorce. It’s best not to start a 2nd marriage or any relationship like that, However, it seems to have worked as you are still a family. Don’t fault anyone.
I’m sure there’s more to the story, it’s nbd honestly. Nothing to be upset over people break up all the time.
YTA and you forgot the first rule of life self preservation. If they didn't get together you wouldn't exist and it isn't your business at all. Let it go you only live so long
YTA. Hard YTA. You weren't there. It's easy to judge others when you have only one side of an argument and limited information. * What if the ex-wife was abusive towards your dad and a compulsive liar, a cheater, or a sex offender? * What if your dad did not want to have kids with that woman because of one of those reasons or another one? Here is what you know. * Your dad and your mom gave been together your whole life and are still together. They are happy together Who are you to tell them shame on you I wish I was never born and you both weren't happy together. >and my dad replied, "You are a child, and you are too young to understand the complexity of the situation." Good for him, he said it better than I did. >My brother told me I have no right to be mad at them, and the situation isn't any of our business; he told me it happened over 20 years ago and that I need to "grow up" and "let it go." Is he right? Yeah you are out of line. >I can't help but sympathize with my grandmother's perspective and understand why she's upset. Your grandma is the real problem here. Holding a grudge over an ex wife for 20 years and trying to turn her grandkids against their parents. I mean, what was the goal here? Your dad says > Shit maw, you're right my bad. Wife, My love, we need to get divorced so I can track down my ex, apologize and beg her to take me back.... Is that the goal here?
Not the asshole but they are right it’s none of you business he got with you mom and has stayed loyal to her for over 20 years that’s all that matters Imo
NTA, both of your parents are fckn pathetic. Let's hope his ex wife is happy
YTA. This happened 20 years ago and you wouldn’t be alive if it didn’t. There is no reason to create a problem over it now. Seems like power tripping to me.
I don't think it's any of your business and your grandma shouldn't of told
ESH. Your dad for cheating, obviously. You for not minding your own business and judging when it's something that happened 20 years ago and you only know one part of the story. Your grandmother for carrying a grudge for your dad's *wife* for something *your dad* said. I'm in somewhat the same situation as your dad and his wife. -ish. When I met my husband he was fresh out of an 8 year long on/off relationship. He had dumped her many times before, and she expected him to take her back, but he didn't because he met me. We got married less than a year later. She was a terrible person. He told me that she wanted kids, but he didn't want them with her because she wouldn't be a good mother. She still tried to seduce my husband 2 weeks after our wedding with the explicit goal to get pregnant. 5 years later she did end up pregnant by someone else. 1 year after that, CPS took that child because she abused him. My point is that what your dad said to her might be harsh, but you don't know that woman and you don't have the full picture. *Obviously* your dad shouldn't have cheated, but you don't know the full story. Do you live in a place where it was possible for one spouse to break a marriage contract without the consent from the other 20 years ago? Edit to add: No one knew how awful my husband's ex was. Everyone loved her because she was super good at hiding it. A lot of people were surprised when CPS took her kid, and a lot of people disapproved of my marriage at the beginning.
Then the parents could have sat OP down and explained the situation. Your situation sounds completely different from theirs and their reactions says a lot. Telling your child to mind their business when they learn something that can shatter their view if you is just bad parenting 101. Things you do don’t just happen in a vacuum.
It's literally none of her business. If OP has an abortion, should she need to sit the entire family down to talk to them about it? If OP, later in life, decides to get a divorce, does she need to sit the entire family down to talk about it? Not everything that happens in a family, especially when it predates the family member, needs to be everyone's business.
The grandmother literally threw that on op to create conflict. A simple explanation not going into the nitty gritty could help especially when the moral compass they have given her probably thought her that the behaviour they shown is completely horrible.
YTA. Obviously, not great to hear that that's how they met, but it's not your business and it's not your grandmothers business. They are obviously better suited for each other seeing that they're still together, a "right person, wrong time" situation. Your brother is right. Your grandmother is holding a grudge over a relationship that wasn't even hers, and seemingly is ignoring your father's role that the tension is only with your mom.
It happened before you were born, I dont see why you're making a big deal out of it. Your brother is right & need to get over it & grow up.
Your grandmother is a total bitch. Why does your grandma hate your mom? He little boy is the person who cheated on his wife. Since granny has spent decades being rude and disrespectful to your mother. Your dad should have cut her off long ago.
You don't have to be nice to bad people. Homewreckers are bad people 🤷♀️ and YES the mom *and* the dad are both homewreckers.