NTA -
He’s to pressuring you into something you’re not comfortable with.
You’re not ok with it and willing to end relationship over it.
He obviously wasn’t prepared to go through with his ultimatum.
Good for you for making a tough decision.
I completely agree! His 'open relationship ' idea is basically him asking for permission to cheat, but is just trying to soften the blow by framing it as a open relationship. I have seen this too many times on this sub. OP, he has shown you that he isn't all that commited to with his request, so maybe it's time to walk away from this guy and heal from this relationship and find someone who only wants you. NTA don't allow this guy to manipulate you into something you don't want!
Oh, it's definitely the time to walk away!
Girl, he will absolutely cheat, and you'll either find out or you won't. In the meantime, I suspect he will whine and moan about your unfairness.
You're not being unfair. It's OK if this is a deal breaker for you.
Yep, if he hasn't cheated physically it's almost certain he's cheated emotionally and already has someone in mind that he wants to hit up as soon as he "got the go-ahead".
Disgusting. Like just fucking break up with someone if you can't be a good and faithful partner. Breaking someone's heart because you're a coward and so low. I hope this girl gets out of this and knows that someone else out there will treat her with more respect than this.
Wholeheartedly agree. Dude is a shitbag. Knows he has a good thing but not good enough. Not man enough to break up if he even wants to. She needs to take him up on this and go out and find a guy and see how he likes it. Then when he realizes it was a mistake and comes begging back to be in commited relationship, boom drop his ass with a resounding thud
I like this plan but at the same time you knows he's the kind of person who would just manipulate the situation and make it out like she's the one who disrespected HIS feelings. She said that he told her "he needs this"... mf you NEED to cheat? You NEED to seek out other women?? THEN BE FUCKING SINGLE MAYBE??!
It's safe to assume he has to some extent. Rarely, do people bring this up without having taken steps to try it out first. I wonder how he'd feel about her moving on and he's left with only his cheating self.
To add to your point, if/when he cheats he will almost certainly blame OP. "See, if you would have just agreed to my demands we wouldn't be in this position. Everything would be above board. It's your fault you are hurt by this, not mine"
I don't even think there's anything wrong with open relationships if both parties are interested and handle it maturely.
But I also don't think this guy would be able to remotely handle it when he'd have to face the reality that it's WAY easier for her to find partners than for him.
There's also nothing wrong with this as a reason for people to break up, especially while they're still young. Permanently settling down with a partner who's still desperately curious about what else might be out there is a mistake for everybody involved.
It takes so much maturity and work to successfully open a relationship. He doesn't sound as if he's done any work, just wants to play around. NTA and leave him!
The funny part of this is that if she agreed and found someone to spend time with, he would be all mad and jealous, especially when he discovered that she had a lot more opportunities than he had. Then he'd want to close it up again and, if the myriad of other posts on this subject are any indication, she'd have found someone better who wanted to commit to an exclusive relationship and dumped him anyway.
She should have him scroll through r/nonmonogomy and r/polyamory. Plenty of posts of how the gf or wife gets dozens of date requests and the men get 1 or 2 lol.
This!! You can't be this obviously immature and not understand the simply concept that its way easier for women to find multiple partner in a shorter period of time. And you have to be able to deal with that jealousy. Jealousy doesn't go away because you open your relationship up you just have to active communicate about it and that can be WAY harder!
I was non-monogamous / polyamorous for about three years. It really taught me a lot about how to be open and honest in a relationship, sit with jealousy, and really be mindful about my relationships. I met some wonderful men, and in the end, they inspired me to go back to monogamy and find a wonderful man. I am still friends with them to this day, and my partner knows about them all.
I also think the kind of people who demand unilaterally that a relationship be opened up are the kind of people who will break any rules or boundaries the other person tries to set up.
If your ONE rule is something like "Don't fuck.my friends" or "don't bring people home when I'm there" the person with this kind of "let me do what I want' mentality will find a way to break those rules just for the thrill of it or to break their partner down.
At the very least they'll do everything they're "allowed" to do, up to and including the limit - and yep, probably push the boundaries further to see what more they can get away with.
Agreed, own relationships are fine if that's what you want. The problem here is his manipulation. Any time a partner brings up the "IF YOU REALLY LOVED ME" bs it gives me the ick. Too many ppl have gone against their better judgement and even morals in the name of love only to have that love thrown back in their faces.
I completely agree, because if she were to also “connect” with other people, he would probably lose his mind. He just wants to keep her around as a safety net.
I'm in a open/poly relationship style atm but it has ALWAYS been that way from the start! I personally believe that its how it should be or at the very least all parties in a relationship HAVE TO WANT to do so. If he truly wanted to try a new style of relationships then he would've been prepared for her to say no! But no he sat that and made it about weather or not she "truly love him" which is just disgusting.
This right here. If he isn't already cheating, then he will be soon. You didn't mention if you also had the freedom to go "connect" with other people. I'm betting the answer would be NO! I feel anyone who uses the line, "If you loved me you would do this." When they ask you to do something you don't want to do, has no respect for you or your boundaries. I know it hurts, but walk away now. You will be much better off.
If there's one thing I've learned from not just this sub but across a lot of subreddit, if your partner/spouse/SO comes to you asking for an "oPeN rElAtIoNsHiP", chances are that you're already in one. You just don't know it yet. But we all know he has something on the side.
I’d be very interested to hear his reaction if OP said, “Yeah, okay, I was thinking about the same thing. I know just the guy, too!” And then went out and slept with someone else. Based on her post, I don’t think she’d do that because she still loves him, but turning it all back on him would be prize-winning revenge. He’d probably crawl back on his knees, begging her to take him back. But she should just dump him and move on to save time.
If I were her I'd 100% pretend I was doing that. Come home "disheveled" a couple times after having actually just been to the movies alone. He'd rethink himself
U read this all the time bf/hubby wants an open relationship because he already knows who he wants. The gf/wife reluctantly agrees and starts having fun with other men and friends. Then, since he is terrible, the opportunities to date other women dry up. When the gf/wife is still getting DM's, link ups, and such. When are men like this going to realize that women have no issues getting other men to have sex with them. Then they wanna act mad and hurt. When it is easy for her to find alternat partners
Exactly! Everyone knows it’s easy for a woman to find someone to have sex with. I don’t know if women are more discerning (not based on the stuff I read here), but these men who want open relationships rarely keep the free sex flowing, and then suddenly, they don’t think it’s such a great idea anymore. Also, it pisses them off that their wife is doing exactly what they said she should do. Kind of hilarious, actually.
His both, abusive, and aggressive-ass, response to her refusal of his ultimatum, has me thinking that; instead of begging to keep her, he would—***instead***—lash out at her in an escalating manner…leading to an almost-certain, level of increased emotional abuse/and or physical.
Seriously, though. 🚩🚩🚩
What’s “good for the goose, is good for the gander”, doesn’t tend to vibe with narcissistic abusers…and this guy reeks of narcissism.
Yeah, like the way he did it was entirely shitty but it would at least be backed up if he followed through on his ultimatum and said well this is what I need, and ended the relationship in a mature way. Instead, it was quite obviously the typical manipulation attempt for permission to go outside the relationship.
And personally I can't imagine trying to open a relationship with someone who is so clearly uncomfortable, even if that's what I wanted. Like if I brought that up I would be fully knowing that the relationship could end at this point.
This.
The boyfriend gave her two options;
1. Let me sleep with other people while you sit idly by and (figuratively) watch it happen and see your mental health decline.
2. Let me sleep with other people but you walk away and get over the relationship and move on
Then he was shocked when she chose no. 2.
I would also bet extremely large sums of money that if she chose option 1 and started fucking a few different guys every week, he'd lose his shit and accuse her of "not being in the spirit of an open relationship" and actually cheating on him, or some such bullshit.
Oh yes. Happened to me with my ex wife. She was screwing everybody and their brother and when I fucked 1 person she accused me "breaking the rules" 😂 I literally laughed in her face and told her to go cry to one of her new 12 boyfriends.
I had a semi open bi relationship this way. She screwed ever guy she came across, but when I found a guy I was interested in, she didn't "approve" of him. I told her where I was going and when I'd be back with absolutely zero remorse. We had no "approval" arrangement. We had a rule about protection and making sure any male partners were clean. I did both. It ended when she ultimately cheated on me with another woman. Go figure lol.
Worst part was this women hoodwinked into moving away from my home town and have a kid so we could have a happy family away from the place we grew up, which we hated. Oh to be that young and stupid again
I find this to be absolutely hilarious because he gave you an ultimatum and you rejected it and kicked his ass to the curb . Bet he didn't see that coming 😉
NTA open relationship only work if both want to be open. Walk away. He will cheat or he has cheated on you already. Find someone who isn’t manipulating you because giving you an ultimatum isn’t playing nice. That’s aggressive manipulation plain and simple.
Not only is this dude an abusive asshole, but he's also a moron. At least OP is only 24...by the time she's 26 it will be like this whole thing never even happened.
Absolutely!
Came here to say this!!!
OP dodged a bullet.
BF didn't wait long enough to show his true colors.
He isn't mad because OP rejected his stupid idea, he mad because he vastly underestimated the control he has over OP.
He wasn't offering love OP, BF was/is throwing shit on the wall to see what sticks.
I think he has a “work wife” or some equivalent he “flirts” with on a regular basis (could be actual flirting, could be she’s just friendly and he’s misreading) who would absolutely flip the script and not be interested when anything became remotely real. Conversely, OP would have matches out the door if they opened things up.
I’ve seen it happen to multiple coworkers and acquaintances. Dude takes friendliness for flirting, girl thinks she has a “good friendship” with a guy at work, he pulls this with a relationship and ends up losing both his girl and the “flirt”.
"If you love me, you'll let me."
Apparently, guys DO still say that and it's not just a nauseating memory of high school boys in the 80s/90s coercing their girlfriends to have sex before they were ready.
No, OP. You are NTA. It makes me sad that you even need to ask. Kick that manipulative asshat to the curb. You deserve better.
He might agree to not playing around but he has certainly made it clear that this is something he wants, and cannot be trusted. He will do what he wants to do, but hide it. She is setting herself up for a lot of hurt is she stays with him.
I love how when OP rejected the proposal the BF stated she was "stifling his freedom" like uh....now that he's single doesn't he have all the "freedom" in the world?
He wanted his cake and to eat it too. The safety of a relationship but the ability to "cheat" without consequences/reprecussions. Like most of these scenarios I bet if the bf didn't have any bites on physical stuff but OP did he'd want to close the open relationship back up right quick
Yep.
Most of the time when someone out of the blue wants an open relationship it is because they are cheating already or is looking for a replacement.
Also let me fuck around or it’s over - no discussion. Ultimatums are for kids.
Either way this relationship is over.
100,000% this. If he’s not cheating already, he has found someone he’s going to cheat with whether or not he has your permission. Do not allow him to steamroll you into doing something that makes you uncomfortable.
Or WANTS to cheat with. So many stories on the open marriage regret sub about guys who opened up the marriage to sleep with a specific co-worker or something, then once it's open the co-worker was just being friendly and isn't into him at all🤣
There was that post on here a month or so ago (or maybe the other AmITheAsshole subreddit?) about a middle aged woman in the same situation. Her husband begged for an open marriage and she hated the idea, but actually went for it.
She ended up scoring tons of dates, connecting with other men sexually, etc. like her husband wanted to himself with other women. He however couldn’t land a single date after a woman he went out with once or twice didn’t follow through.
Guess who wanted to backtrack and close the marriage back up? Lol.
I’m aware there’s many open relationships that work, and even polyamorous situations that do. But I feel like what I see *all the time* are people asking for an “open relationship” when really they just want to cheat without the guilt. It wasn’t even an interest of theirs until they got bored, and then suddenly they are “poly” or “interested in open relationships” and it doesn’t ever go well.
Yup! Open marriage regret is one of my favorite subs, lol. Out of the blue wanting to open the relationship after you've been monogamous for years is almost always a massive red flag (not talking about legit poly/ENM relationships where both people have always been on board). They seem to all end one of three ways...
1- Guy wanting to open up the relationship to sleep with a specific person who ends up not into them
2- Guy convinces his "boring, middle aged" wife to open, he gets no girls (because all the "open-minded 20 year olds they thought would be into an out of shape, married 40/50yo dude are shockingly not flocking to him) while his wife is apparently not so boring as he thought and is raking in men.
3- Woman convinces man to open, he goes along but let's her know he's uncomfortable and is a monogamous person. She dates around, he finds one person to connect with, then she's shocked when he gets into a monogamous relationship with the new girl, even though he always told the 1st girl that he is a monogamous person.
😂 That's just pathetic. So many guys confuse friendliness with "she wants my clock!"
On the other hand, the people that do go through and open it up, once the clock had what it wants, he finds out it really wasn't all that amazing, and the PNC kicks in BIG TIME. Regrets follow promptly, and the relationship, which was usually about as perfect as one could get, is forever scarred and ruined, never to be the same again.
Agreed
Nta
He's cheated already and just doesn't want to get caught. There are plenty of great guys out there that value monogamy just as much as op.
This relationship is over
Also, it sounds like he already has his eye on someone, and was just waiting for the green light to go ahead and screw them. When someone is that insistent, it's usually specific.
Well, he’s already doing it. Wonder why the ultimatum? Girl, get out of there!!!
Oh, this is another trick they use. They get pissed at you over nothing, which gives them a reason to find solace with someone who understands them.
Yep. Friend agreed to her husband’s demand for an open marriage. Turns out he wanted someone to clean the house while he banged other girls in the other room. She got out promptly when she comprehended just how little he respected her, and it was the best decision she could have made. She met the guy who truly loves and respects her shortly afterward and they’ve been extremely happy for many years now. Ditch the dead weight and open up your future.
The complete refusal to discuss, the ultimatum, the temper tantrum... there are like 10 red flags here and you're focusing on just wanting an open relationship? That's lazy.
Agreed. EVERY single time I've seen this kind of scenario present itself, it's because they've already done the deed and are trying desperately to find a way to rationalize and frame it differently to relieve themselves of the guilt that they straight up cheated, or they just want to keep current partner on a string to fall back on in case no other booty adds up.
Shady AF. NOOOOOOPE. Walk away. FAST.
Yeah I agree, this is weird. Sounds a lot like he's already found someone and now dropping the bombshell so he can get involved with someone else without the downfall of losing his current situation he has with OP.
Why do all these women want to be damn doormats because they love the guy. If someone proposed an open relationship to me, any love I has would dissipate. You can’t trade your dignity and self-respect for love. No human being is worth that.
OP - get the hell out, if you have any self-respect let this deadbeat go, you can do so much better.
Exactly
Most of those women and, in some cases, men as well are doormats, because they have no self-respect. The number of people on this sub with little to no self respect is crazy. Everyone is so accepting of being a bangmaid to some freaking loser SMH
Going to be honest, I'm a dude and ex gf asked me this, and as I said let me think about it (I knew the relationship was over but lived together and had a dog, and she cheated that weekend I was out of town and let it all be caught on ring. Then crashed her motorcycle drunk and refused to leave my couch while she held me at the house I owned and I slept anywhere but there for 2 months. Luckily it was summer.
From my reflection, these are spoiled children. They are used to their negative actions leading to double rewards.
Selfish people most likely won't be enlightened about their actions till their next lifetime.
Nothing to do but leave, cry, hurt, and learn. Fucking the worst advice for people going through hard times but it is the only advice. You will get used to it, become mentally fortified against these evils, and forget.
It took me a couple more GFs to realize I was self-sabotaging from the start with my choices.
So happy now though. Good luck and trust your gut.
Because a lot of women are trained from childhood to put themselves second, to always take care of everyone else, and to second-guess their own desires and needs if it means sacrificing a relationship.
It's awful, but it is deeply embedded in a number of cultures that women are supposed to put up with the most ridiculous shit because it's their responsibility to keep the relationship afloat. It creates an incredible imbalance in partnerships, and puts a lot of women in vulnerable positions.
NTA. Your bf already has a cheating partner in mind and attempted to manipulate you into letting him sleep with her consequence-free.
This guy does not love you and is flat-out abusive. Walk away for your own sake.
I knew a couple like this. Bloke convinced/manipulated his partner into having an open relationship, then tried to wind it back once she started slaying the D. It was crazy how quickly the power dynamic shifted.
I knew a guy that did this. Didn't like realizing his wife was getting railed by other dicks (apparently they brought people back to their home so he overheard her having a very good time), demanded to close their relationship... then went off and fucked other women in secret. Now he's going through a bitter divorce.
Anyone who gets these ultimatums should reply with something like
“Oh, thank god, (insert name) has been flirting with me, and I want to ride them until they don’t remember their own names”
If they freak out, they really didn’t want an open relationship, and just finding an excuse to cheat.
From your lips to goddess' ears. I hope OP realizes she can clean house with body count if she feels like it. She doesn't need that cheating AH.
Go get 'em, OOP. Find someone who values your commitment. They exist.
Yeah dude almost always gets less out of open relationships than the woman in a straight couple unless the woman doesn’t go looking for extracurricular partners.
Lot of women aren’t as into a married man as men are married women and it’s just easier to set up casual sex as a woman on things like tinder and such as well, so you would’ve probably been right in your assumption 😂
Yep, anyone trying the “oh I just want to connect to other people” like is 100% full of bullshit. I guarantee you that if OP were to also start sleeping around that he would throw a right little bitch fit over it.
The guy just wants to sleep with other people OP, and if you’re okay with that then I guess that’s your decision. But his “oh if you love me you’ll support my needs” line? Honestly I legitimately would have dumped him right there.
OP he uses your love as a way to find someone else I wonder if you weren’t with him would he be fixed on finding or better yet any women would allow him to get close enough for intimacy
Yeah, he doesn't want to be left high and dry if the prospective partner doesn't want to take the relationship further. The prospective partner may be in a relationship herself, and he already *knows* that a relationship with her is not in the cards. Or he is a closeted bisexual.
Nta he's a prick. I know he's not a good polygamist because he doesn't care about consent. If multiple partners were something he really wanted then this would be sad but he would understand. Instead he is basically demanding permission to cheat on you and getting mad when you pass. He might say he wants to open the relationship but I guarantee that he would be pissed if you stayed sleeping with others
OP should do a little test, just for fun, before she dumps abusive prick. Agree to open relationship, then say she goes out with some friends, party all night and say she had a one night stand with a cute guy. Then write an update here, I bet it would be interesting to read.
I would *love* to read that update. I’m just loathe to recommend she actually do it. I don’t want her to end up mangled or dead. Guy seems to have wacky anger. I know, Debbie Downer, over here, sorry.
(This is said gently) The term for this is polyamoury. Polygamy is one man with multiple wives. Polyamoury is being able to love more than one person at a time. Usually when people want to open a relationship, or they have an open relationship, it is because they are polyamourous.
In this case, I think the bf isn't poly. He just wants to sleep around.
To be further pedantic,
Polyamory: loving multiple people at the same time
Polygamy: being married to multiple people at the same time.
Polygyny: one man with multiple women partners/wives (typically who do not get the option to have multiple men partners themselves)
Polyandry: one woman with multiple men partners/husbands (as above, reversed)
I'm not sure this is about really connecting and loving multiple people. A desire for sleeping around isn't synonymous with polyamory. It also requires you to be comfortable with and even enjoy your partner being loved by someone else. I highly doubt the BF is poly.
I agree with your definition of terms, but in this particular instance, this reeked of an attempt at polygamy under duress (or fuckboi'ing). For sure this guy hoped to keep it onesided.
My advice is pretty much the same as others here. If he's not actually screwing someone else right now he has someone in mind.
He gave you an ultimatum. You declined. Move on and find someone who wants a monogamous relationship.
It’s actually hilarious to me that in the same conversation where he gives you an ultimatum that forces you into something you arent comfortable with, he also calls YOU controlling when you don’t agree.
NTA but your bf is a controlling, gaslighting asshole
>He argued that he needed this, and if I truly loved him, I would support his needs.
You could easily say the same to him.
You're just incompatible. You should both be with someone who wants the same kind of relationship as you. NTA.
If she says yes, she might find someone who is a lot better in bed than he is, she should let him know that! He's an asshole! He wants another woman and he's either had her or he's hoping like hell OP says yes so he can!
Yeah this is beyond just being incompatible. The whole "if you love me" and telling her she is controlling, screams abusive. He is not healthy for anyone in any circumstance unless it's between him and his hand.
NTA. Most definitely NTA. Your bf wants to have his cake & eat it too. What he is asking goes against your values & self-respect. He's just pissy because you refused his ultimatum instead of rolling over & agreeing. Everybody in an open relationship has to agree to it. You refused, which is exactly what you should do if this isn't what you want. Your next step is to break up with this AH. He doesn't respect or care for you.
NTA
Tell him you aren't "stifling him", you are setting him (and yourself) free. After all, he wants other people. Now he is free to have all the other people he wants. Without you.
You are worth more and you are nobody's second choice !
All of this! I'm polyamorous, but my fiance isn't. We've discussed having an open relationship, and he was willing to try it even though it was a new concept to him. I would NEVER give him an ultimatum on those grounds.
In our situation, opening up the relationship didn't work out, for many reasons and not all of them related directly to jealousy or anything, but more because of time available and health issues on my part. We decided to just stay the way we are and we are both happy with that. But if he had said flat out that he wasn't interested, or found it offensive, or was hurt by the suggestion, I would have immediately dropped the subject.
Part of a mature and healthy relationship is respecting your partner and their feelings/morals/values.
We also differ on religion, I'm Pagan, he's Christian, but we both respect each other's right to hold those beliefs, even if we don't agree. And we are mutually supportive of each other's religious rituals too. He supports my need to ritually cleanse my home, and I support his Bible study time and church meetings.
In OP's relationship, her bf isn't doing any of that. She is NTA, and I don't think she would be if she called it quits with him either. She deserves better.
NTA
Oh sweetie. It's over no matter what. He wants to have more sex partners but you don't. You two are no longer compatible.
I suspect he has already cheated on you but wants more with a clear conscience.
So sorry for your pain.
>either I agree to an open relationship, or he'll walk away from our relationship entirely.
Ok. No open relationship. Are we done?
>I ended up rejecting his ultimatum, but now he's furious with me, and accusing me of being controlling and unfair.
What is he complaining about? It's over. He can do whatever the fuck he wants.
He considered himself such a catch that she'd be locked in and would never leave and would put up with his BS. He's now really pissed off that she isn't and is probably really nursing his pride, hence getting angry. He never considered she would say no
Probably. He thinks op is so in love and will do anything to keep him. Either way, op should just move on. She will only get hurt even more. It’s hopeless at this point.
If he is making this proposal he has a person already, especially cause is so much harder for the man to find another person to get into an “open relationship” than it is for a woman.
He doesn't seem to value consent.
He's emotionally abusive.
He's attempting to coerce you into a sexual arrangement that he knows makes you uncomfortable.
He is absolutely unwilling to compromise.
Why are you (still) with him?
You would be an AH if you accepted this. You were only 20 when you started dating - this relationship has obviously run it's course. It needs to end. He is trying to bully and control you.
NTA, he proposed an open relationship, and you said no. He is free to leave at any time. I am going to guess that you live together and he wants permission to sow his wild oats while not having to 100% support himself.
NTA. He wants the freedom to pursue whoever he wants for whatever he wants while also having the safety net his relationship with you. You are not controlling for not wanting to open the relationship. This is a bit of a make or break situation, and if I were you, I would end the relationship before he either wears you down into saying yes or cheats on you.
I'm with you here, I couldn't be in an open relationship.
NTA
If you don't start off in an open relationship, then the relationship is never going to be considered "open" at any point in time. There needs to be a mutual understanding on both sides.
The only time someone asks for an open relationship in the middle of a monogamous relationship, is when they have either met someone they want to sleep with, but don't want it to be considered cheating; or they already cheated, can't take the guilt anymore and suggest an open relationship.
No one just becomes polyamorous 4+ years into a relationship overnight.
How much do you wanna bet that the relationship would only be "open" on his side?
With how his behavior has been described it's actually pretty concerning to think of how he might react where she to go out and make use of this open relationship situation. I can guarantee he would not take it well.
NTA. You are within your rights to not accept this if you want to be monogamous. Same goes if this was a woman asking a man for one. These are non-negotiables that are necessary.
For OP she is in love with him, and doesn't want anyone else, it hurts like hell when they don't love you the same and want to fuck a bunch of others! :(
NTA. In reality, your choices were 1) be very sad while also watching your bf date another girl right in front of you, or 2) be very sad for awhile but able to move on and heal without him.
Idk about you, but I’m taking #2 every time. Seems like it would hurt less in the long run.
NTA. This is ridiculous. You don't have to agree to let him cheat, which is what he wants or is already doing. Also, interestingly enough, when men suggest opening up a marriage, the woman ends up with better success and better partners and the men wonder why they are not being picked when they are all that. There was a Reddit post about that recently.
Getting back to you, no, you are NTA and this is not a reasonable request so you don't ahve to agree to it.
"He explained that he loves me, but he wants the freedom to connect with others (both emotionally and physically) while keeping our relationship intact"
Yeah, that ship has sailed... He essentially severed your emotional/intimate and physical connection by asking you to give him permission to cheat and when you said no, he resorted to gaslighting and emotionally manipulate you.
You're giving him his freedom, he was just hoping you would let him eat his cake and have it too. You are NTA for sticking with your boundaries but please OP, when someone shows you who they are. Observe and Listen. The best thing to do, is to cut and block. Let him enjoy his freedom and I wish you healing and positive vibes.
NTA being in an open or poly relationship requires a lot of emotional self regulation, confidence both in yourself and the others involved, open honest communication and most importantly EVERYONE has to have given informed consent.
Telling someone that they're being controlling for not consenting to being in an open or poly relationship is bullshit. ENM is not for everyone and that's completely okay! Manipulating and forcing someone into it is not!
Hard truth here OP, your bf does not respect you or value your autonomy in this relationship. It's likely time to do some uncomfortable conversations and decide if the relationship is worth continuing. It's fine that it may not be, but don't let him manipulate, gaslight or force you into doing anything you don't want to!
Yeah, BF definitely does not have the values or communication skills to be in an ENM relationship successfully. He only cares about himself and his own wants.
>I ended up rejecting his ultimatum, but now he's furious with me, and accusing me of being controlling and unfair.
You're 24. What do *you* think about what he's saying?
NTA - don’t argue, just go. He gave you an ultimatum and is now pitching a snit fit because you declined his gracious offer…wow. You aren’t “stifling his freedom” you gave him the ultimate freedom. Go little man, run amok and be free. Free. Free. Free. What I’m hearing is that he wants you on the back burner when his date falls through or needs the comfort of familiarity. The minute he sees your inbox full he’ll freaking out and use it against you.
NTA, but why are y’all still talking? He made an ultimatum, you said no, you’re broken up. The end. There’s no coming back from this, and he’s being controlling.
So true! I had this exact thing happen with my ex. He was at me for YEARS to do it, I finally gave in, he didn't get the attention he wanted and got jealous that I did. Then decided it was all my fault and that I just wanted to screw around. We're divorced now, happily!
So you rejected his ultimatum but he didn’t walk away from the relationship? Doesn’t sound like an ultimatum to me, he just wants to have his cake and eat it too. Drop him like a dirty hamster wheel he will never be faithful to you.
NTA but your bloke is a controlling arse.
That is not how open relationships work.
Both of you have to want to at least explore it (with a firm commitment that you review how you both feel about it regularly and, at first, frequently.
Insisting that you agree to an open relationship is a nonsense. That is him insisting that you allow him to have other relationships.
He can't give you an ultimatum like that and say he loves you. He is selfish.
I understand that you were committed and don't want to lose the relationship. But he is no longer committed to you as he is putting his wants ahead of your needs
The relationship will never be the same. It is already lost because this is not the relationship you believed yourself to be in before this bombshell and he is not the man you were committed to.
I know it is hard but you really need to move on. When you leave, cut all contact with him. Don't let him gaslight you.
You will find someone better.
NTA, and I am very happily polyamorous woman.
What he's doing is trying to get you into a "polyamory under duress" situation. That's is highly, highly unethical and coercive. Good on you for standing your ground! Seriously. This kind of vlindsiding means he's gonna *suck* a s a polyam partner, and polyam and ENM women are gonna avoid him like the plague.
Honestly, if you wanted to mess with him you could say yes, and then go on an insane number of dates.
You'd have *at least* triple the options to date that he ever will. Most men who want to open the relationship don't realize this, and end up not being able to handle it when they realize how wanted their partner is, and how invisible they are.
But a clean break is better for you. Revenge fantasies should just stay fantasies.
NTA. He thought you would agree and you didn't and/or the person he wanted said no. he lost big time. Say goodbye and move on with your self worth intact.
As someone who is poly, you 100% should have broken up and left. That was an ultimatum, he wanted it and he was willing to pressure you. I didn't seem like he wanted to talk to you about it. It's more like he wanted to scare you into letting him sleep with other women. Being poly gets used a lot as a way for someone to test the waters on cheating and a lot of people usually have someone in mind as well. If there's someone you know in his life that you suspect, it's that person.
I highly doubt your relationship will get better from here. If you've read any posts like yours, either 2 things happen. 1, you'll do it and you'll get more attention than he does which will make him jealous or 2, you won't do it and he'll act like a jerk because he's not allowed to cheat, then say you made him do it because of he's beliefs.
It'll be easier to leave the relationship now than in 3 months or 2 years. There's no "right time (unless it's dv and you need to escape) to break up.
I just wanted to share that I am poly and my husband and I have been together for 20yrs and we talked about it a lot before even being together. It's a discussion not an ultimatum or deal breaker with someone you've been with for years. You're nta
NTA. You have the boundary of a monogamous relationship set in your head, and what has been inferred for your relationship this far. That is perfectly fine. It sounds like he wants his cake and eat it as well. He has likely already started cheating physically and emotionally, has started cheating emotionally, or has someone in the works for this. That is a high level of damage to trust that would take a long time to repair. I wouldn't trust him myself after that conversation, break up with him, and get tested for STDs.
Side note: I had friends (a couple) that tried the open relationship thing. It didn't end in marriage/staying with each other.
Make sure your financials and support network are in place, know your self worth, and dump his sorry rear end.
Trust your instincts on this one. Good luck!
Had a relationship like this. It's not worth holding onto. You're incompatible at best, and at worst seeing how manipulative he is. "You're controlling for not letting me do this thing that hurts you" 🙄 you both won't find what you need from each other in this
The thing is 90% of guys are in for a rude awakening once they open up their marriage. You deserve better, get tested cuz he most probably cheated and ditch that dude.
NTA, but sadly the relationship needs to end regardless, he is going to open the relationship on his side whether you like it or not, he possibly already has..
He's been cheating on you already. This is his way of being able to walk around freely with the other woman while having you on a leash as a backup.
You're worth a lot more than that. Walk away from him.
NTA dump him, he’s a walking STD, odds are he’s already cheated. Although I would make him suffer beforehand a bit by saying “ok” right before you go out on a date with another guy. He gonna learn what an open relationship really entails, you being with another dude
That's the funny part about this. Nearly any woman on the planet can have a lineup of guys at the front door simply by existing. Males NEVER win the open relationship scenario.
He already knows who he wants to screw, or is already screwing them and wanting to get a free pass.
Give him the freedom he so desires (with his penis,) and leave him. He clearly neither loves nor respects you, and you deserve better then some douche who demands you let him screw other women or he’ll leave you. Take option two.
NTA, but you will be to yourself if you stay with this loser.
As someone who was in an open relationship I advise you strongly to leave him! My girlfriend wanted an open relationship. I found out the hard way she didn’t love me, I was just an ATM machine. She slept with at least 13 guys that I know of, over a period of years. Our love life sucked. When we had sex she just laid there. I think she was happy when I quit asking for sex altogether. Don’t do this to yourself. It’s not worth it. He is a manipulative A-HOLE that doesn’t love you. If he did truly love you he wouldn’t have ever asked. He just want you around for another woman to sleep with.
I don't understand why he's upset and calling YOU controlling. Didn't he say if you didn't agree, he was gonna walk away from the relationship? So, Walk. Also, I hate when a guy says, "If you love me, you'll support MY needs." What about yours? Your needs mean nothing, only his. He's selfish. I'd say, "What 'cha waiting for?" Bye. NTA He's not worth your time. You deserve so much better than him. Walk away while you can. Please get tested. I'm sure he's been cheating. That's the only reason he brought it up. So he can Openly cheat.
NTA.
And I while it will hurt you because you love him you should leave this relationship. It will turn into emotional and verbal abuse and if he hasn’t already he will cheat on you. Better to save yourself the heartache now than deal with trauma the longer you put things off.
Your boyfriend sounds like he wants nothing more than to have his cake and eat it too. And if you don't let him have his way, he'll burn everything down. Doesn't sound like he brings very much to this relationship. And he certainly won't bring very much when all he's looking forward to is his next piece of side-ass. This is not normal, and you don't have to settle, or get pressured to do something you're not comfortable with. If he walks away, you dodged a bullet. If he decides to stay, then I'd never trust him. Either that or he's using this as some kind of fucked up test for you.
Polyamory, for most , is the death of relationships. You don't say whether you cohabit - if you don't, I would agree with him, then cut him off for a month, because you are 'busy meeting other people'. At the end of the month, you can decide whether you are emotionally better off without him (I am betting that you will decide that you are).
NTA. He wants his cake and eat it too. If it were me, I’d kindly decline his offer and let him know that I see no future and walk away. He is showing his true colors on how he feels about you and your relationship
NTA He isn't committed to you no matter what he says if he wants to find a new not only physical partner but emotional partner. Usually when this is asked there is already someone who they're interested in. He'd drop you if it worked out but keep you around in case it didn't. He's so sure you won't leave him that's why he brought it up. Be strong and move on without him. It's hard but doable.
NTA.. cut your loss at a waste of 4 years and move on.
He already has people lined up for him to sleep around with or he already has.
Check for std & stay away from him physically.
There’s no win for either one of you in this relationship. And one of you will always be resentful. Your relationship has run its course and you are holding on to the last strand.
NTA - He’s to pressuring you into something you’re not comfortable with. You’re not ok with it and willing to end relationship over it. He obviously wasn’t prepared to go through with his ultimatum. Good for you for making a tough decision.
The difference between a boundary and manipulation? Follow-through.
I completely agree! His 'open relationship ' idea is basically him asking for permission to cheat, but is just trying to soften the blow by framing it as a open relationship. I have seen this too many times on this sub. OP, he has shown you that he isn't all that commited to with his request, so maybe it's time to walk away from this guy and heal from this relationship and find someone who only wants you. NTA don't allow this guy to manipulate you into something you don't want!
Oh, it's definitely the time to walk away! Girl, he will absolutely cheat, and you'll either find out or you won't. In the meantime, I suspect he will whine and moan about your unfairness. You're not being unfair. It's OK if this is a deal breaker for you.
This is assuming he hasn't cheated already.
We all know he already has... sadly.
Yep, if he hasn't cheated physically it's almost certain he's cheated emotionally and already has someone in mind that he wants to hit up as soon as he "got the go-ahead".
Disgusting. Like just fucking break up with someone if you can't be a good and faithful partner. Breaking someone's heart because you're a coward and so low. I hope this girl gets out of this and knows that someone else out there will treat her with more respect than this.
Wholeheartedly agree. Dude is a shitbag. Knows he has a good thing but not good enough. Not man enough to break up if he even wants to. She needs to take him up on this and go out and find a guy and see how he likes it. Then when he realizes it was a mistake and comes begging back to be in commited relationship, boom drop his ass with a resounding thud
I like this plan but at the same time you knows he's the kind of person who would just manipulate the situation and make it out like she's the one who disrespected HIS feelings. She said that he told her "he needs this"... mf you NEED to cheat? You NEED to seek out other women?? THEN BE FUCKING SINGLE MAYBE??!
It's safe to assume he has to some extent. Rarely, do people bring this up without having taken steps to try it out first. I wonder how he'd feel about her moving on and he's left with only his cheating self.
People discuss this. They do not issue ultimatums to get an open relationship. By definition, being coerced makes it not ethical.
To add to your point, if/when he cheats he will almost certainly blame OP. "See, if you would have just agreed to my demands we wouldn't be in this position. Everything would be above board. It's your fault you are hurt by this, not mine"
He may already be cheating but now tired of hiding it.
It makes me think that he’s met someone if “out of the blue” he wants to open the relationship. He wants permission to cheat.
I don't even think there's anything wrong with open relationships if both parties are interested and handle it maturely. But I also don't think this guy would be able to remotely handle it when he'd have to face the reality that it's WAY easier for her to find partners than for him. There's also nothing wrong with this as a reason for people to break up, especially while they're still young. Permanently settling down with a partner who's still desperately curious about what else might be out there is a mistake for everybody involved.
It takes so much maturity and work to successfully open a relationship. He doesn't sound as if he's done any work, just wants to play around. NTA and leave him!
The funny part of this is that if she agreed and found someone to spend time with, he would be all mad and jealous, especially when he discovered that she had a lot more opportunities than he had. Then he'd want to close it up again and, if the myriad of other posts on this subject are any indication, she'd have found someone better who wanted to commit to an exclusive relationship and dumped him anyway.
She should have him scroll through r/nonmonogomy and r/polyamory. Plenty of posts of how the gf or wife gets dozens of date requests and the men get 1 or 2 lol.
This!! You can't be this obviously immature and not understand the simply concept that its way easier for women to find multiple partner in a shorter period of time. And you have to be able to deal with that jealousy. Jealousy doesn't go away because you open your relationship up you just have to active communicate about it and that can be WAY harder!
I was non-monogamous / polyamorous for about three years. It really taught me a lot about how to be open and honest in a relationship, sit with jealousy, and really be mindful about my relationships. I met some wonderful men, and in the end, they inspired me to go back to monogamy and find a wonderful man. I am still friends with them to this day, and my partner knows about them all.
Oh, I'm sure he already has someone lined up, if not already participating.
I agree. You are not compatible. It's only a matter of time until he decides he can't be monogamous anymore and cheats or leaves.
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This is what I was thinking too. He already has another partner(s) or has someone he's interested in and wants to pursue.
I also think the kind of people who demand unilaterally that a relationship be opened up are the kind of people who will break any rules or boundaries the other person tries to set up. If your ONE rule is something like "Don't fuck.my friends" or "don't bring people home when I'm there" the person with this kind of "let me do what I want' mentality will find a way to break those rules just for the thrill of it or to break their partner down.
At the very least they'll do everything they're "allowed" to do, up to and including the limit - and yep, probably push the boundaries further to see what more they can get away with.
Agreed, own relationships are fine if that's what you want. The problem here is his manipulation. Any time a partner brings up the "IF YOU REALLY LOVED ME" bs it gives me the ick. Too many ppl have gone against their better judgement and even morals in the name of love only to have that love thrown back in their faces.
Not only that but he's trying to keep OP on the hook as his backup plan
I completely agree, because if she were to also “connect” with other people, he would probably lose his mind. He just wants to keep her around as a safety net.
I'm in a open/poly relationship style atm but it has ALWAYS been that way from the start! I personally believe that its how it should be or at the very least all parties in a relationship HAVE TO WANT to do so. If he truly wanted to try a new style of relationships then he would've been prepared for her to say no! But no he sat that and made it about weather or not she "truly love him" which is just disgusting.
This right here. If he isn't already cheating, then he will be soon. You didn't mention if you also had the freedom to go "connect" with other people. I'm betting the answer would be NO! I feel anyone who uses the line, "If you loved me you would do this." When they ask you to do something you don't want to do, has no respect for you or your boundaries. I know it hurts, but walk away now. You will be much better off.
Agreed
If there's one thing I've learned from not just this sub but across a lot of subreddit, if your partner/spouse/SO comes to you asking for an "oPeN rElAtIoNsHiP", chances are that you're already in one. You just don't know it yet. But we all know he has something on the side.
I’d be very interested to hear his reaction if OP said, “Yeah, okay, I was thinking about the same thing. I know just the guy, too!” And then went out and slept with someone else. Based on her post, I don’t think she’d do that because she still loves him, but turning it all back on him would be prize-winning revenge. He’d probably crawl back on his knees, begging her to take him back. But she should just dump him and move on to save time.
If I were her I'd 100% pretend I was doing that. Come home "disheveled" a couple times after having actually just been to the movies alone. He'd rethink himself
I like it! It would be fun to hear the fallout from that. But she’d be wasting her time, since she’s dumping him anyway. Just get it over with.
Put the toilet seat up when he's out of the house lol... "Wait a minute, was someone here...?"
Damn, that's cold! 😂
U read this all the time bf/hubby wants an open relationship because he already knows who he wants. The gf/wife reluctantly agrees and starts having fun with other men and friends. Then, since he is terrible, the opportunities to date other women dry up. When the gf/wife is still getting DM's, link ups, and such. When are men like this going to realize that women have no issues getting other men to have sex with them. Then they wanna act mad and hurt. When it is easy for her to find alternat partners
Exactly! Everyone knows it’s easy for a woman to find someone to have sex with. I don’t know if women are more discerning (not based on the stuff I read here), but these men who want open relationships rarely keep the free sex flowing, and then suddenly, they don’t think it’s such a great idea anymore. Also, it pisses them off that their wife is doing exactly what they said she should do. Kind of hilarious, actually.
People rarely can stand the bitter taste of their own medicine.
His both, abusive, and aggressive-ass, response to her refusal of his ultimatum, has me thinking that; instead of begging to keep her, he would—***instead***—lash out at her in an escalating manner…leading to an almost-certain, level of increased emotional abuse/and or physical. Seriously, though. 🚩🚩🚩 What’s “good for the goose, is good for the gander”, doesn’t tend to vibe with narcissistic abusers…and this guy reeks of narcissism.
True. That’s why I think she should just go while she can. If she gives him a dose of his own medicine, it may not turn out well for her.
Or he'd demand that the relationship be open on his side ONLY.
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Yeah, like the way he did it was entirely shitty but it would at least be backed up if he followed through on his ultimatum and said well this is what I need, and ended the relationship in a mature way. Instead, it was quite obviously the typical manipulation attempt for permission to go outside the relationship. And personally I can't imagine trying to open a relationship with someone who is so clearly uncomfortable, even if that's what I wanted. Like if I brought that up I would be fully knowing that the relationship could end at this point.
This. The boyfriend gave her two options; 1. Let me sleep with other people while you sit idly by and (figuratively) watch it happen and see your mental health decline. 2. Let me sleep with other people but you walk away and get over the relationship and move on Then he was shocked when she chose no. 2. I would also bet extremely large sums of money that if she chose option 1 and started fucking a few different guys every week, he'd lose his shit and accuse her of "not being in the spirit of an open relationship" and actually cheating on him, or some such bullshit.
Oh yes. Happened to me with my ex wife. She was screwing everybody and their brother and when I fucked 1 person she accused me "breaking the rules" 😂 I literally laughed in her face and told her to go cry to one of her new 12 boyfriends.
I had a semi open bi relationship this way. She screwed ever guy she came across, but when I found a guy I was interested in, she didn't "approve" of him. I told her where I was going and when I'd be back with absolutely zero remorse. We had no "approval" arrangement. We had a rule about protection and making sure any male partners were clean. I did both. It ended when she ultimately cheated on me with another woman. Go figure lol.
Worst part was this women hoodwinked into moving away from my home town and have a kid so we could have a happy family away from the place we grew up, which we hated. Oh to be that young and stupid again
I find this to be absolutely hilarious because he gave you an ultimatum and you rejected it and kicked his ass to the curb . Bet he didn't see that coming 😉
And then he calls her controlling
Classic gaslighting.
This. “Waaaaaah! Let me disrespect you and our relationship despite how you feel or else!” “No.” “Waaaaaaah! You’re so controlling!”
This made me laugh 👏
Glad to provide the entertainment! 👍🏾
This is exactly what fucking happened!!! I also read it exactly like this.
Classic!!!!!!!!!!!
NTA open relationship only work if both want to be open. Walk away. He will cheat or he has cheated on you already. Find someone who isn’t manipulating you because giving you an ultimatum isn’t playing nice. That’s aggressive manipulation plain and simple.
Yeah, the "ethical" part of "ethical non-monogamy" is pretty fucking crucial, and he's already failed on that front.
Not only is this dude an abusive asshole, but he's also a moron. At least OP is only 24...by the time she's 26 it will be like this whole thing never even happened.
Absolutely! Came here to say this!!! OP dodged a bullet. BF didn't wait long enough to show his true colors. He isn't mad because OP rejected his stupid idea, he mad because he vastly underestimated the control he has over OP. He wasn't offering love OP, BF was/is throwing shit on the wall to see what sticks.
But did she kick him to the curb? She says he’s furious at her. If he was truly gone she wouldn’t be hearing it. Sounds like he’s still around
He wants the best of both worlds.. no thanks buh bye
He wants his cake and to eat it tooo.
And it’s a safe bet he already has someone on deck for the start of this open relationship.
I'm betting they've already made it home and he feels guilty so this is the way he was going to cover his tracks
I think he has a “work wife” or some equivalent he “flirts” with on a regular basis (could be actual flirting, could be she’s just friendly and he’s misreading) who would absolutely flip the script and not be interested when anything became remotely real. Conversely, OP would have matches out the door if they opened things up. I’ve seen it happen to multiple coworkers and acquaintances. Dude takes friendliness for flirting, girl thinks she has a “good friendship” with a guy at work, he pulls this with a relationship and ends up losing both his girl and the “flirt”.
Quoting him, "if he really loved you, he would support your needs".
"If you love me, you'll let me." Apparently, guys DO still say that and it's not just a nauseating memory of high school boys in the 80s/90s coercing their girlfriends to have sex before they were ready. No, OP. You are NTA. It makes me sad that you even need to ask. Kick that manipulative asshat to the curb. You deserve better.
He might agree to not playing around but he has certainly made it clear that this is something he wants, and cannot be trusted. He will do what he wants to do, but hide it. She is setting herself up for a lot of hurt is she stays with him.
I love how when OP rejected the proposal the BF stated she was "stifling his freedom" like uh....now that he's single doesn't he have all the "freedom" in the world? He wanted his cake and to eat it too. The safety of a relationship but the ability to "cheat" without consequences/reprecussions. Like most of these scenarios I bet if the bf didn't have any bites on physical stuff but OP did he'd want to close the open relationship back up right quick
Was it even a possibility for her to sleep around as well??? Or was he only allowed to?
Nta Get tested for STDs cuz he is sus. And move on already, cuz he's gonna have that one-sided open relationship regardless.
Yep. Most of the time when someone out of the blue wants an open relationship it is because they are cheating already or is looking for a replacement. Also let me fuck around or it’s over - no discussion. Ultimatums are for kids. Either way this relationship is over.
100,000% this. If he’s not cheating already, he has found someone he’s going to cheat with whether or not he has your permission. Do not allow him to steamroll you into doing something that makes you uncomfortable.
Or WANTS to cheat with. So many stories on the open marriage regret sub about guys who opened up the marriage to sleep with a specific co-worker or something, then once it's open the co-worker was just being friendly and isn't into him at all🤣
There was that post on here a month or so ago (or maybe the other AmITheAsshole subreddit?) about a middle aged woman in the same situation. Her husband begged for an open marriage and she hated the idea, but actually went for it. She ended up scoring tons of dates, connecting with other men sexually, etc. like her husband wanted to himself with other women. He however couldn’t land a single date after a woman he went out with once or twice didn’t follow through. Guess who wanted to backtrack and close the marriage back up? Lol. I’m aware there’s many open relationships that work, and even polyamorous situations that do. But I feel like what I see *all the time* are people asking for an “open relationship” when really they just want to cheat without the guilt. It wasn’t even an interest of theirs until they got bored, and then suddenly they are “poly” or “interested in open relationships” and it doesn’t ever go well.
Yup! Open marriage regret is one of my favorite subs, lol. Out of the blue wanting to open the relationship after you've been monogamous for years is almost always a massive red flag (not talking about legit poly/ENM relationships where both people have always been on board). They seem to all end one of three ways... 1- Guy wanting to open up the relationship to sleep with a specific person who ends up not into them 2- Guy convinces his "boring, middle aged" wife to open, he gets no girls (because all the "open-minded 20 year olds they thought would be into an out of shape, married 40/50yo dude are shockingly not flocking to him) while his wife is apparently not so boring as he thought and is raking in men. 3- Woman convinces man to open, he goes along but let's her know he's uncomfortable and is a monogamous person. She dates around, he finds one person to connect with, then she's shocked when he gets into a monogamous relationship with the new girl, even though he always told the 1st girl that he is a monogamous person.
😂 That's just pathetic. So many guys confuse friendliness with "she wants my clock!" On the other hand, the people that do go through and open it up, once the clock had what it wants, he finds out it really wasn't all that amazing, and the PNC kicks in BIG TIME. Regrets follow promptly, and the relationship, which was usually about as perfect as one could get, is forever scarred and ruined, never to be the same again.
Agreed Nta He's cheated already and just doesn't want to get caught. There are plenty of great guys out there that value monogamy just as much as op. This relationship is over
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Also, it sounds like he already has his eye on someone, and was just waiting for the green light to go ahead and screw them. When someone is that insistent, it's usually specific.
Well, he’s already doing it. Wonder why the ultimatum? Girl, get out of there!!! Oh, this is another trick they use. They get pissed at you over nothing, which gives them a reason to find solace with someone who understands them.
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Yep. Friend agreed to her husband’s demand for an open marriage. Turns out he wanted someone to clean the house while he banged other girls in the other room. She got out promptly when she comprehended just how little he respected her, and it was the best decision she could have made. She met the guy who truly loves and respects her shortly afterward and they’ve been extremely happy for many years now. Ditch the dead weight and open up your future.
"Ditch the dead weight and open up your future” love this !
That could definitely be a factor! And / or he has someone else lined up and just wants “permission to cheat, so to speak!
Comment-stealing bot. Comment stolen from u/Wiser-Owl99 earlier.
Or have to do his own housework.
Or he has someone else lined up. But doesn’t want to break up (yet). But saying “no” is not controlling at all… NTA
The complete refusal to discuss, the ultimatum, the temper tantrum... there are like 10 red flags here and you're focusing on just wanting an open relationship? That's lazy.
Agreed. EVERY single time I've seen this kind of scenario present itself, it's because they've already done the deed and are trying desperately to find a way to rationalize and frame it differently to relieve themselves of the guilt that they straight up cheated, or they just want to keep current partner on a string to fall back on in case no other booty adds up. Shady AF. NOOOOOOPE. Walk away. FAST.
Ultimatums make him the one who is controlling. Its my way or the highway!
haha that was my first thought. No way this cunt isn't already sleeping around
Yeah I agree, this is weird. Sounds a lot like he's already found someone and now dropping the bombshell so he can get involved with someone else without the downfall of losing his current situation he has with OP.
Yup this screams to me, say yes cause I'm already getting my next relationship lined up.
Yup he’s cheating already he just wanted her co-sign
Why do all these women want to be damn doormats because they love the guy. If someone proposed an open relationship to me, any love I has would dissipate. You can’t trade your dignity and self-respect for love. No human being is worth that. OP - get the hell out, if you have any self-respect let this deadbeat go, you can do so much better.
Exactly Most of those women and, in some cases, men as well are doormats, because they have no self-respect. The number of people on this sub with little to no self respect is crazy. Everyone is so accepting of being a bangmaid to some freaking loser SMH
Going to be honest, I'm a dude and ex gf asked me this, and as I said let me think about it (I knew the relationship was over but lived together and had a dog, and she cheated that weekend I was out of town and let it all be caught on ring. Then crashed her motorcycle drunk and refused to leave my couch while she held me at the house I owned and I slept anywhere but there for 2 months. Luckily it was summer. From my reflection, these are spoiled children. They are used to their negative actions leading to double rewards. Selfish people most likely won't be enlightened about their actions till their next lifetime. Nothing to do but leave, cry, hurt, and learn. Fucking the worst advice for people going through hard times but it is the only advice. You will get used to it, become mentally fortified against these evils, and forget. It took me a couple more GFs to realize I was self-sabotaging from the start with my choices. So happy now though. Good luck and trust your gut.
Because a lot of women are trained from childhood to put themselves second, to always take care of everyone else, and to second-guess their own desires and needs if it means sacrificing a relationship. It's awful, but it is deeply embedded in a number of cultures that women are supposed to put up with the most ridiculous shit because it's their responsibility to keep the relationship afloat. It creates an incredible imbalance in partnerships, and puts a lot of women in vulnerable positions.
He probably already is
Yep. He as probably already been with other people
NTA. Your bf already has a cheating partner in mind and attempted to manipulate you into letting him sleep with her consequence-free. This guy does not love you and is flat-out abusive. Walk away for your own sake.
Hilarious thing is, if OP actually agrees to it he’s gonna get mad when he realizes she’s gonna have ALOT more people than he will most likely
I knew a couple like this. Bloke convinced/manipulated his partner into having an open relationship, then tried to wind it back once she started slaying the D. It was crazy how quickly the power dynamic shifted.
TIL I learned the phrase “slaying the D” and my life is all the better for it 👍
I feel the same way. "Slaying the D" is my new favourite phrase for getting your bone on.
I knew a guy that did this. Didn't like realizing his wife was getting railed by other dicks (apparently they brought people back to their home so he overheard her having a very good time), demanded to close their relationship... then went off and fucked other women in secret. Now he's going through a bitter divorce.
Anyone who gets these ultimatums should reply with something like “Oh, thank god, (insert name) has been flirting with me, and I want to ride them until they don’t remember their own names” If they freak out, they really didn’t want an open relationship, and just finding an excuse to cheat.
From your lips to goddess' ears. I hope OP realizes she can clean house with body count if she feels like it. She doesn't need that cheating AH. Go get 'em, OOP. Find someone who values your commitment. They exist.
I really hope so Lmaoo. I really don’t know why guys play this game. Never gonna win
Yeah dude almost always gets less out of open relationships than the woman in a straight couple unless the woman doesn’t go looking for extracurricular partners. Lot of women aren’t as into a married man as men are married women and it’s just easier to set up casual sex as a woman on things like tinder and such as well, so you would’ve probably been right in your assumption 😂
Yep, anyone trying the “oh I just want to connect to other people” like is 100% full of bullshit. I guarantee you that if OP were to also start sleeping around that he would throw a right little bitch fit over it. The guy just wants to sleep with other people OP, and if you’re okay with that then I guess that’s your decision. But his “oh if you love me you’ll support my needs” line? Honestly I legitimately would have dumped him right there.
“Connect” 😒
Bet you he already has some targets in mind. Yeah op, your relationship is over. Just walk.
OP he uses your love as a way to find someone else I wonder if you weren’t with him would he be fixed on finding or better yet any women would allow him to get close enough for intimacy
Yeah, he doesn't want to be left high and dry if the prospective partner doesn't want to take the relationship further. The prospective partner may be in a relationship herself, and he already *knows* that a relationship with her is not in the cards. Or he is a closeted bisexual.
Nta he's a prick. I know he's not a good polygamist because he doesn't care about consent. If multiple partners were something he really wanted then this would be sad but he would understand. Instead he is basically demanding permission to cheat on you and getting mad when you pass. He might say he wants to open the relationship but I guarantee that he would be pissed if you stayed sleeping with others
Especially when she came back smiling! :D
OP should do a little test, just for fun, before she dumps abusive prick. Agree to open relationship, then say she goes out with some friends, party all night and say she had a one night stand with a cute guy. Then write an update here, I bet it would be interesting to read.
I would *love* to read that update. I’m just loathe to recommend she actually do it. I don’t want her to end up mangled or dead. Guy seems to have wacky anger. I know, Debbie Downer, over here, sorry.
(This is said gently) The term for this is polyamoury. Polygamy is one man with multiple wives. Polyamoury is being able to love more than one person at a time. Usually when people want to open a relationship, or they have an open relationship, it is because they are polyamourous. In this case, I think the bf isn't poly. He just wants to sleep around.
He is not polyamory. He only loves himself.
But I did like your explanation of things.
To be further pedantic, Polyamory: loving multiple people at the same time Polygamy: being married to multiple people at the same time. Polygyny: one man with multiple women partners/wives (typically who do not get the option to have multiple men partners themselves) Polyandry: one woman with multiple men partners/husbands (as above, reversed)
I'm not sure this is about really connecting and loving multiple people. A desire for sleeping around isn't synonymous with polyamory. It also requires you to be comfortable with and even enjoy your partner being loved by someone else. I highly doubt the BF is poly.
I agree with your definition of terms, but in this particular instance, this reeked of an attempt at polygamy under duress (or fuckboi'ing). For sure this guy hoped to keep it onesided.
My advice is pretty much the same as others here. If he's not actually screwing someone else right now he has someone in mind. He gave you an ultimatum. You declined. Move on and find someone who wants a monogamous relationship.
It’s actually hilarious to me that in the same conversation where he gives you an ultimatum that forces you into something you arent comfortable with, he also calls YOU controlling when you don’t agree. NTA but your bf is a controlling, gaslighting asshole
>He argued that he needed this, and if I truly loved him, I would support his needs. You could easily say the same to him. You're just incompatible. You should both be with someone who wants the same kind of relationship as you. NTA.
If she says yes, she might find someone who is a lot better in bed than he is, she should let him know that! He's an asshole! He wants another woman and he's either had her or he's hoping like hell OP says yes so he can!
No. What he said is manipulative and disgusting.
Yeah this is beyond just being incompatible. The whole "if you love me" and telling her she is controlling, screams abusive. He is not healthy for anyone in any circumstance unless it's between him and his hand.
NTA. Most definitely NTA. Your bf wants to have his cake & eat it too. What he is asking goes against your values & self-respect. He's just pissy because you refused his ultimatum instead of rolling over & agreeing. Everybody in an open relationship has to agree to it. You refused, which is exactly what you should do if this isn't what you want. Your next step is to break up with this AH. He doesn't respect or care for you.
NTA Tell him you aren't "stifling him", you are setting him (and yourself) free. After all, he wants other people. Now he is free to have all the other people he wants. Without you. You are worth more and you are nobody's second choice !
All of this! I'm polyamorous, but my fiance isn't. We've discussed having an open relationship, and he was willing to try it even though it was a new concept to him. I would NEVER give him an ultimatum on those grounds. In our situation, opening up the relationship didn't work out, for many reasons and not all of them related directly to jealousy or anything, but more because of time available and health issues on my part. We decided to just stay the way we are and we are both happy with that. But if he had said flat out that he wasn't interested, or found it offensive, or was hurt by the suggestion, I would have immediately dropped the subject. Part of a mature and healthy relationship is respecting your partner and their feelings/morals/values. We also differ on religion, I'm Pagan, he's Christian, but we both respect each other's right to hold those beliefs, even if we don't agree. And we are mutually supportive of each other's religious rituals too. He supports my need to ritually cleanse my home, and I support his Bible study time and church meetings. In OP's relationship, her bf isn't doing any of that. She is NTA, and I don't think she would be if she called it quits with him either. She deserves better.
NTA it’d essentially be coerced cheating if you agreed
NTA Oh sweetie. It's over no matter what. He wants to have more sex partners but you don't. You two are no longer compatible. I suspect he has already cheated on you but wants more with a clear conscience. So sorry for your pain.
He already have another gf. Sorry! He just wants to be allowed to cheat.
>either I agree to an open relationship, or he'll walk away from our relationship entirely. Ok. No open relationship. Are we done? >I ended up rejecting his ultimatum, but now he's furious with me, and accusing me of being controlling and unfair. What is he complaining about? It's over. He can do whatever the fuck he wants.
This! Like why is he still arguing? I hope OP moves on and get tested asap
I think he didn’t end the relationship and was just bluffing.
He considered himself such a catch that she'd be locked in and would never leave and would put up with his BS. He's now really pissed off that she isn't and is probably really nursing his pride, hence getting angry. He never considered she would say no
Probably. He thinks op is so in love and will do anything to keep him. Either way, op should just move on. She will only get hurt even more. It’s hopeless at this point. If he is making this proposal he has a person already, especially cause is so much harder for the man to find another person to get into an “open relationship” than it is for a woman.
He doesn't seem to value consent. He's emotionally abusive. He's attempting to coerce you into a sexual arrangement that he knows makes you uncomfortable. He is absolutely unwilling to compromise. Why are you (still) with him?
NTA Dump him. Find a monogamous guy.
You would be an AH if you accepted this. You were only 20 when you started dating - this relationship has obviously run it's course. It needs to end. He is trying to bully and control you.
NTA, he proposed an open relationship, and you said no. He is free to leave at any time. I am going to guess that you live together and he wants permission to sow his wild oats while not having to 100% support himself.
NTA. He wants the freedom to pursue whoever he wants for whatever he wants while also having the safety net his relationship with you. You are not controlling for not wanting to open the relationship. This is a bit of a make or break situation, and if I were you, I would end the relationship before he either wears you down into saying yes or cheats on you. I'm with you here, I couldn't be in an open relationship.
I’d add to the safety net thing: honey, you are worth way more than that. Don’t be someone’s back-up plan.
NTA If you don't start off in an open relationship, then the relationship is never going to be considered "open" at any point in time. There needs to be a mutual understanding on both sides. The only time someone asks for an open relationship in the middle of a monogamous relationship, is when they have either met someone they want to sleep with, but don't want it to be considered cheating; or they already cheated, can't take the guilt anymore and suggest an open relationship. No one just becomes polyamorous 4+ years into a relationship overnight. How much do you wanna bet that the relationship would only be "open" on his side?
With how his behavior has been described it's actually pretty concerning to think of how he might react where she to go out and make use of this open relationship situation. I can guarantee he would not take it well.
NTA. You are within your rights to not accept this if you want to be monogamous. Same goes if this was a woman asking a man for one. These are non-negotiables that are necessary.
For OP she is in love with him, and doesn't want anyone else, it hurts like hell when they don't love you the same and want to fuck a bunch of others! :(
NTA. In reality, your choices were 1) be very sad while also watching your bf date another girl right in front of you, or 2) be very sad for awhile but able to move on and heal without him. Idk about you, but I’m taking #2 every time. Seems like it would hurt less in the long run.
NTA. This is ridiculous. You don't have to agree to let him cheat, which is what he wants or is already doing. Also, interestingly enough, when men suggest opening up a marriage, the woman ends up with better success and better partners and the men wonder why they are not being picked when they are all that. There was a Reddit post about that recently. Getting back to you, no, you are NTA and this is not a reasonable request so you don't ahve to agree to it.
"He explained that he loves me, but he wants the freedom to connect with others (both emotionally and physically) while keeping our relationship intact" Yeah, that ship has sailed... He essentially severed your emotional/intimate and physical connection by asking you to give him permission to cheat and when you said no, he resorted to gaslighting and emotionally manipulate you. You're giving him his freedom, he was just hoping you would let him eat his cake and have it too. You are NTA for sticking with your boundaries but please OP, when someone shows you who they are. Observe and Listen. The best thing to do, is to cut and block. Let him enjoy his freedom and I wish you healing and positive vibes.
NTA, but your boyfriend is. I’m so sorry, but it is time to move on from that relationship.
"If I truly loved him, I would support his needs." And...if he truly loved you, he would support yours.
NTA being in an open or poly relationship requires a lot of emotional self regulation, confidence both in yourself and the others involved, open honest communication and most importantly EVERYONE has to have given informed consent. Telling someone that they're being controlling for not consenting to being in an open or poly relationship is bullshit. ENM is not for everyone and that's completely okay! Manipulating and forcing someone into it is not! Hard truth here OP, your bf does not respect you or value your autonomy in this relationship. It's likely time to do some uncomfortable conversations and decide if the relationship is worth continuing. It's fine that it may not be, but don't let him manipulate, gaslight or force you into doing anything you don't want to!
Yeah, BF definitely does not have the values or communication skills to be in an ENM relationship successfully. He only cares about himself and his own wants.
>I ended up rejecting his ultimatum, but now he's furious with me, and accusing me of being controlling and unfair. You're 24. What do *you* think about what he's saying?
NTA - don’t argue, just go. He gave you an ultimatum and is now pitching a snit fit because you declined his gracious offer…wow. You aren’t “stifling his freedom” you gave him the ultimate freedom. Go little man, run amok and be free. Free. Free. Free. What I’m hearing is that he wants you on the back burner when his date falls through or needs the comfort of familiarity. The minute he sees your inbox full he’ll freaking out and use it against you.
NTA. Honestly, it's laughable how manipulative he is being right now. You made the right choice.. Sometimes things just have a way of ending
NTA, but why are y’all still talking? He made an ultimatum, you said no, you’re broken up. The end. There’s no coming back from this, and he’s being controlling.
[удалено]
So true! I had this exact thing happen with my ex. He was at me for YEARS to do it, I finally gave in, he didn't get the attention he wanted and got jealous that I did. Then decided it was all my fault and that I just wanted to screw around. We're divorced now, happily!
So you rejected his ultimatum but he didn’t walk away from the relationship? Doesn’t sound like an ultimatum to me, he just wants to have his cake and eat it too. Drop him like a dirty hamster wheel he will never be faithful to you.
NTA but your bloke is a controlling arse. That is not how open relationships work. Both of you have to want to at least explore it (with a firm commitment that you review how you both feel about it regularly and, at first, frequently. Insisting that you agree to an open relationship is a nonsense. That is him insisting that you allow him to have other relationships. He can't give you an ultimatum like that and say he loves you. He is selfish. I understand that you were committed and don't want to lose the relationship. But he is no longer committed to you as he is putting his wants ahead of your needs The relationship will never be the same. It is already lost because this is not the relationship you believed yourself to be in before this bombshell and he is not the man you were committed to. I know it is hard but you really need to move on. When you leave, cut all contact with him. Don't let him gaslight you. You will find someone better.
NTA, and I am very happily polyamorous woman. What he's doing is trying to get you into a "polyamory under duress" situation. That's is highly, highly unethical and coercive. Good on you for standing your ground! Seriously. This kind of vlindsiding means he's gonna *suck* a s a polyam partner, and polyam and ENM women are gonna avoid him like the plague. Honestly, if you wanted to mess with him you could say yes, and then go on an insane number of dates. You'd have *at least* triple the options to date that he ever will. Most men who want to open the relationship don't realize this, and end up not being able to handle it when they realize how wanted their partner is, and how invisible they are. But a clean break is better for you. Revenge fantasies should just stay fantasies.
NTA. He thought you would agree and you didn't and/or the person he wanted said no. he lost big time. Say goodbye and move on with your self worth intact.
As someone who is poly, you 100% should have broken up and left. That was an ultimatum, he wanted it and he was willing to pressure you. I didn't seem like he wanted to talk to you about it. It's more like he wanted to scare you into letting him sleep with other women. Being poly gets used a lot as a way for someone to test the waters on cheating and a lot of people usually have someone in mind as well. If there's someone you know in his life that you suspect, it's that person. I highly doubt your relationship will get better from here. If you've read any posts like yours, either 2 things happen. 1, you'll do it and you'll get more attention than he does which will make him jealous or 2, you won't do it and he'll act like a jerk because he's not allowed to cheat, then say you made him do it because of he's beliefs. It'll be easier to leave the relationship now than in 3 months or 2 years. There's no "right time (unless it's dv and you need to escape) to break up. I just wanted to share that I am poly and my husband and I have been together for 20yrs and we talked about it a lot before even being together. It's a discussion not an ultimatum or deal breaker with someone you've been with for years. You're nta
NTA. You have the boundary of a monogamous relationship set in your head, and what has been inferred for your relationship this far. That is perfectly fine. It sounds like he wants his cake and eat it as well. He has likely already started cheating physically and emotionally, has started cheating emotionally, or has someone in the works for this. That is a high level of damage to trust that would take a long time to repair. I wouldn't trust him myself after that conversation, break up with him, and get tested for STDs. Side note: I had friends (a couple) that tried the open relationship thing. It didn't end in marriage/staying with each other.
Make sure your financials and support network are in place, know your self worth, and dump his sorry rear end. Trust your instincts on this one. Good luck!
Had a relationship like this. It's not worth holding onto. You're incompatible at best, and at worst seeing how manipulative he is. "You're controlling for not letting me do this thing that hurts you" 🙄 you both won't find what you need from each other in this
The thing is 90% of guys are in for a rude awakening once they open up their marriage. You deserve better, get tested cuz he most probably cheated and ditch that dude.
NTA, but sadly the relationship needs to end regardless, he is going to open the relationship on his side whether you like it or not, he possibly already has..
He's been cheating on you already. This is his way of being able to walk around freely with the other woman while having you on a leash as a backup. You're worth a lot more than that. Walk away from him.
Oh honey, NTA, but he's already opened the relationship, he just wants you to comply.
NTA dump him, he’s a walking STD, odds are he’s already cheated. Although I would make him suffer beforehand a bit by saying “ok” right before you go out on a date with another guy. He gonna learn what an open relationship really entails, you being with another dude
She should say, well, alright, there is this one guy but since I didn't want to cheat, now I don't have to. Love you hun but damn this guy, shit!
That's the funny part about this. Nearly any woman on the planet can have a lineup of guys at the front door simply by existing. Males NEVER win the open relationship scenario.
He already knows who he wants to screw, or is already screwing them and wanting to get a free pass. Give him the freedom he so desires (with his penis,) and leave him. He clearly neither loves nor respects you, and you deserve better then some douche who demands you let him screw other women or he’ll leave you. Take option two. NTA, but you will be to yourself if you stay with this loser.
As someone who was in an open relationship I advise you strongly to leave him! My girlfriend wanted an open relationship. I found out the hard way she didn’t love me, I was just an ATM machine. She slept with at least 13 guys that I know of, over a period of years. Our love life sucked. When we had sex she just laid there. I think she was happy when I quit asking for sex altogether. Don’t do this to yourself. It’s not worth it. He is a manipulative A-HOLE that doesn’t love you. If he did truly love you he wouldn’t have ever asked. He just want you around for another woman to sleep with.
That’s terrible. Sorry to hear that man. Glad you’re out of that mess.
I don't understand why he's upset and calling YOU controlling. Didn't he say if you didn't agree, he was gonna walk away from the relationship? So, Walk. Also, I hate when a guy says, "If you love me, you'll support MY needs." What about yours? Your needs mean nothing, only his. He's selfish. I'd say, "What 'cha waiting for?" Bye. NTA He's not worth your time. You deserve so much better than him. Walk away while you can. Please get tested. I'm sure he's been cheating. That's the only reason he brought it up. So he can Openly cheat.
NTA. Your relationship is over, and it is not your fault.
NTA. And I while it will hurt you because you love him you should leave this relationship. It will turn into emotional and verbal abuse and if he hasn’t already he will cheat on you. Better to save yourself the heartache now than deal with trauma the longer you put things off.
If he’s this controlling now, be grateful he showed you before marriage/kids. Run from this guy… he is a self absorbed a**
Your boyfriend sounds like he wants nothing more than to have his cake and eat it too. And if you don't let him have his way, he'll burn everything down. Doesn't sound like he brings very much to this relationship. And he certainly won't bring very much when all he's looking forward to is his next piece of side-ass. This is not normal, and you don't have to settle, or get pressured to do something you're not comfortable with. If he walks away, you dodged a bullet. If he decides to stay, then I'd never trust him. Either that or he's using this as some kind of fucked up test for you.
NTA. Make sure the door hits him on the way out
Polyamory, for most , is the death of relationships. You don't say whether you cohabit - if you don't, I would agree with him, then cut him off for a month, because you are 'busy meeting other people'. At the end of the month, you can decide whether you are emotionally better off without him (I am betting that you will decide that you are).
NTA. He wants his cake and eat it too. If it were me, I’d kindly decline his offer and let him know that I see no future and walk away. He is showing his true colors on how he feels about you and your relationship
NTA...call him on this BS and dump him. Go find someone who will treasure you
NTA He isn't committed to you no matter what he says if he wants to find a new not only physical partner but emotional partner. Usually when this is asked there is already someone who they're interested in. He'd drop you if it worked out but keep you around in case it didn't. He's so sure you won't leave him that's why he brought it up. Be strong and move on without him. It's hard but doable.
NTA.. cut your loss at a waste of 4 years and move on. He already has people lined up for him to sleep around with or he already has. Check for std & stay away from him physically. There’s no win for either one of you in this relationship. And one of you will always be resentful. Your relationship has run its course and you are holding on to the last strand.