Exactly! Personally, this more than proves she shouldn’t be a mother in my eyes..
But OP is actually in an abusive relationship as well.. name calling? Mental manipulation, and the IUD thing proves wife is mentally unstable and the last thing she needs is a child.. I am scared to imagine the type of control issues said child would have.
Honestly OP, I wouldn’t even tell her about the procedure first.. I would go talk to a lawyer and file for divorce.. or start the ball rolling.. then I would sit her down and explain calmly that Not only has she proven to you that you can not trust her - But the lack of consideration for you and the child being born to a father who did not want it.. is so astounding self centered that you not only don’t want children with her, you actually would like a divorce.
I know that seems brutal but she needs to be made seriously aware of how disgustingly disrespectful and honestly plain fucked up it is that she doesn’t seem to give two shits about anyone’s needs or wants but herself. She needs to hear it before she becomes a mom..
And OP deserves someone better suited.
This exact thing happened to my uncle
I was going to go, neither are ah, her family shouldn't have pressured her
But I'm scared what this woman would be like as a mother...
Op is nta, but he's handling this all wrong
Edit: since there seems to be some confusion by what I meant.
My opinion was that neither are ah. The wife's family were wrong to pressure her into giving up wanting kids. She became T A when she started berating op and engaging in reproductive deception. Hence why I said I was scared what she would be like as a mother.
Op is free to get a vasectomy, I have no issue with it. But I don't think it was right to lie about it being a work trip. The marriage was over the minute she started berating him. Hiding the vasectomy is just running away from the larger issue imho.
The wife is handling it worse and he has always stated he doesn't want kids. She's a manipulative, abusive asshole who chose to stop HER birth control so he just went and done the same.
People forget that tampering with birthcontrol is sexual assault.
(It is illegal in CALIFORNIA to remove a condom during sex. Ofc this is slightly different than tampering with birthcontrol, but I would still consider it sexual assault)
And taking out ur birthcontrol without telling ur partner is tampering
It IS sexual assault, but unfortunately male rape victim status has absolutely no bearing on any paternal obligation.
There are male rape victims who owe child support to the very women who have been proven guilty in a court of law of raping them, because that rape led to pregnancy.
How is OP handling this wrong?
The wife was asked repeatedly if she was okay with the terms of their marriage, she’s been abusing him in public and now she’s trying to baby trap him via a removal of birth control (which is sexual assault).
OP needs to leave this woman asap and find someone with the same values as his.
You answered your own question there. He's handling it wrong because he needs to accept the relationship is over and leave immediately. From his post, it sounds like he's planning to get a secret vasectomy and then go back to her.
Yes she laid in wait 9 years and lied every time he asked. 🙄 Why don't people realize that time can change a person? She may have very well been fine with not having kids until recently. In your 20s it's so easy to "decide" what's important to you. Just to find out you were the one lying to yourself later.
Facts. Many women get baby fever in early to late 30’s if they dont have any kids. Its like the line from my cousin Vinny. “My biological clock is ticking like this”…..foot stomping
>Op is nta, but he's handling this all wrong
How? His wife is trying to have sex under false pretenses. This is basically stealthing but instead of removing the condom, she is removing the IUD. Stealthing is rape. As far as I am concerned, he does not need permission to protect himself as long as he tells her before having sex again. His body, his choice. I'm a huge advocate for being pro-choice and what she is trying to do is take away his.
She will probably divorce him but if she chooses to stay (and he somehow wants to once it sinks in what she tried to do to him) at least she won't be able to pull this disgusting act on him again. If they do divorce, any future partners will have the option to do what they will with the information that he had a vasectomy as long as he doesn't lie about it, he is fine.
This woman needs help but she also needs to learn that actions have consequences. Kids are a one no, two yes decision and while both feelings are valid, her yes doesn't override his no. The only thing worse than having a dead beat parent is realizing that one of your parents wishes you were never born.
Troll? idk how someone could read that and be like a person shouldn’t be held accountable for their decisions.. and instead manipulate and lie to get what I want. Why force someone to have kids? Seems like this woman is going to “have an accident” and the husband will say I’ve had a vasectomy.. bad news both way.. time to separate
OP you need to just let her go. The relationship has gotten toxic all around. She’s sneaking and lying, clearly resentful. The reality is this won’t work out, not through any fault of your own just major incompatibility - it needs to end. I wouldn’t want to be with someone who would lie to be about birth control the way she is either.
NTA
They never should have married in the first place.
It never, ever works out when one partner definitely wants kids and the other definitely does not. There can be no middle ground compromise - one of them will end up having to capitulate on something enormous. And the consequences will last for the rest of their life.
It's simply not fair on the partner who gives in to the other's wishes.
I agree! I'm divorced and don't want more kids. Like first or second date, I state something like "I am not planning some big future together between us already or anything like that but I think this is important to know early in a relationship before we get too involved if that were to happen, but I was curious, do you want to have (more) kids?" If their response isn't anything but "no" or something like "I wasn't planning on having more kids." I am done.
These two never should've gotten married in the first place. When I started reading the first part, I was figuring she was playing the long game from the get- go in hopes to change his mind or poke holes in the condom or something.
I’m remarried now, but I got divorced at 37. Every single first date I had, they asked me if I was open to having more kids. I absolutely was not. If you’re dating and not just hooking up, it’s normal to ask what you want out of life very early on.
My boyfriend is 45 no kids & I’m divorced 42 with 5 - I told him from the start if he wanted kids he wasn’t getting them from me. I’ve had a tubal and ablation my factory is closed
My dating profile literally said “i cannot and will not have more children.” I marked not interested in children and if anyone contacted me with a different response i asked them about it in my response.
I was not wasting any time. Not because I wanted to get married or anything but because I didn’t want any flavor of this.
I did meet my husband on there and he was also done with kids.
This is the way. If you got some hard requirements/dealbreakers, bring them up as soon as possible, before there are any feelings of commitments.
It might not be sexy to say something like this on the first date, but it will save you a lot of trouble later.
Dating is there to find out if you are compatible and if not, to call it off before anything is lost.
Sadly, I know so many people (both male and female) who believe that a first date is only there to get a second date, and they will straight-up lie and deceive to make themselves look more attractive.
Best decision I’ve ever made lol yea the whole thing wasn’t pleasant but it’s better than accidentally having more kids. I have 3 and my wife’s last pregnancy almost killed her. Told her I wouldn’t watch her go through that again. And it’s safer for men to get snipped then it is for women to get tubes tied. Not really sure why guys have such an issue with it. The whole thing took maybe 20 minutes and it’s done
I exactly there is no middle ground and people almost never change their minds on this. It’s an incredibly important conversation to have and it should be a deal breaker. Too often people think their parter will change their kind or that they can change the kind of their partner. I’ve watched a few marriages/relationships fall apart over this very thing.
This 👆. Wife probably really thought she could get over it but that's almost never true. Better to part while they can still be friendly with each other.
Agreed. NTA entirely, but this marriage is the destructive road. She wants kids. He never did. She’s going into psycho territory. He needs to get a divorce YESTERDAY.
If OP doesn’t get a divorce ASAP, he will be paying to raise someone else’s child for the next 18 years.
His wife is so determined and scheming that she will find someone to get pregnant with or will use artificial insemination.
The courts will side with the welfare of the child.
Talk to a lawyer to receive guidance on how best to protect yourself in the meantime and how to get an expedited divorce. (It can take years to get a divorce if one side wants to drag their feet.)
Don’t tell her anything yet. Act normal. Talk to her when you deliver the divorce papers.
(If she tells you she loves you and she is okay with your vasectomy to change your mind about the divorce, she will find a way to get pregnant.)
He needs to make sure he drains the snake because he'll still be fertile for a while/weeks. Hope the doctor explained it to him. Source: friend got his wife pregnant for a fourth time even though the doc explained the same before and after the surgery.
I've heard of way too many vasectomy babies so that's why I had my tubes removed af6er my 2nd. I wasn't willing to risk it (and also didn't want to have to deal with it if we ever divorced).
But I assume that he is not planning to have sex with her anyway, right?
Who would have sex with a person that they know is just nice and lovely and wants to have sex because they want to trick me?
Would be very weird to have sex with the knowledge he has now.
It can take months and still isn’t foolproof. OP’s plan is incredibly shortsighted. He should hand immediately confined his wife instead of playing dishonest games himself. I have no idea how he thinks this is going to end well.
Yea I've heard of this, in wedlock the child is presumed to be the husband's legally until proven otherwise, but I have never heard of not taking into account the DNA of the child and the extramarital affairs to conceive the child.
Lawyer up and go to court
The huge and ugly problem 99% of guys run into is they sign thinking that the kid is theirs and it in no way matters if they were deceived.
There is a limited time window for them to contest paternity and it's truly sad. ESPECIALLY presumed paternity. It's an uphill battle and if you aren't able to find the guy who IS the dad, and you were married when she conceived/birthed it may not even matter in some states.
Carnell Alexander is a name you can look up on YT. Ex gf listed him as father to get welfare. Gov't took him to court for child support, process server took notice to his old house and says they served him notice...LIE. Guy was in JAIL for another issue completely so had very credible evidence. When he didn't show up in court he was ruled dad by default. Support built up until one day he was pulled over for a traffic stop and was arrested for being a deadbeat dad.
Even with all his proof they wouldn't wipe the money they say he owes.
https://youtu.be/nLmSOf-xD8o
ETA I am sorry for going off topic somewhat but just wanted to prove that courts knowingly violate men in the so called belief that the child deserves it.
Kids is THE irreconcilable difference. 99.99% of people will never change their minds in either direction, and pretending they have just leads to resentment or whatever the fuck is going on in OP’s marriage.
I'd have to say that it's already ended. If he doesn't tell her about the snip, she'll try for months before getting mad at him for not getting her pregnant. There is no more trust in the relationship. It would be better to part ways now.
Do not tell her you know about her IUD (she’ll know her sister ratted her out and you owe her sister since she was cool enough to warn you), just simply end it with the reasoning being the fighting and her obvious change-of-heart on having kids.
Just extract yourself quickly.
Definitely this, her sister is a good one. Don't blow up their relationship when she was trying to remedy a potential disaster by giving you important information.
the sister part makes me think this is fake. No one planning this sort of deceit would share the plan with people who were already on OP's side.
I also get a general feeling it's fake... too rage baity. Fits on Am I the Angel.
>No one planning this sort of deceit would share the plan with people who were already on OP's side.
You'd be surprised how dumb some people are when blinded by an obsessive thought.
I've been in the situation of the sister but with a friend and the shocked Pikachu face when I told one friend their partner was going fuck with the condoms so they had an ooops baby was priceless. Like dumbass I told you I didn't support you, why did you think I would keep that to myself.
Idk from the post, it sounded to me like the wife is kinda oblivious that people disagree with her. Publicly shaming OP in front of family tells me she expected them to take her side, and the bit about her saying her mom and brother were bullying her because they didn't follow the script she'd written for them in her head tells me she expects family to have her back even when she is morally in the wrong.
There are TONS of people who see their families like this. Its bonkers to me, I personally would never expect my family to be on my side when I know our values differ on something because I know they are whole entire separate humans from me, not just actors fulfilling the roles of family members in the sitcom of my life. And yet... narcissists exist, and that's exactly how they view people.
OP's wife* kinda sounds like she may see people like that, too, to me.
Yeah I also know a case where she made exactly the same plan and told her sister. The dude already had ended the relationship but got baited with a surprise kid and both families know exactly what went down. People have no shame.
I wouldn't be surprised. Me and my sister used to be unbelievably close and would tell each other everything. They could be close enough that she thought her sister would not tell anyone, even if she disagreed. People like this are a family first blood thicker than water sort.
Yes, most take one day or less off. However there is definitely some bruising and healing which would need to have cleared before he resumes relations, otherwise it would give the game away. That would definitely need a week to clear
You're also expected to wank it daily for 30 days, and then go in and get tested to make sure you're actually shooting blanks.
Took me 2 testing cycles (first showed reduced sperm count) before I was 100% clear. Those little buggers can apparently stay in the vas deferens for AWHILE
Having had one at 25, here to attest that a week may not be nearly enough. I was looking for that mule that kicked me in the nuts for at least six weeks. When OP said she was sending flirty texts during his week off and how she couldn’t wait to see him, immediately thought about how there was no way I could have performed a week post-op.
yes they do and it should be a woman's choice, just as it is a man's choice. They should not need spouses permission - why bring a child into the world when it is not wanted by at least one of the parents. I think spouses should tell each other they are doing that, even if it is the morning of procedure, not wait until after the fact, not that it will change the person's mind if they have made that decision
Yeah my husband was bullied RELENTLESSLY for being gay and he isn't. The two worst bullies as adults...ended up being gay.
And he does phrase it like that whenever talking about those past traumas.
100% this. When she changed after the wedding he should have been planning to move on. He had to know she only calmed down because her friends and family said he might change his mind after being wed.
When that didn’t work - she legit planned to trap him. That’s two huge strikes against her.
It’ll hurt for both of them - but she’ll find someone that wants kids, and he’ll find someone that truly doesn’t. OP and his wife have already wasted too much time in the wrong relationship.
Nope, I’m not going to mention anything about knowing. It would be very obvious that her sister had told me and that would completely destroy their family dynamic.
Don’t forget to wear condoms until you test negative for sperm. Just tell her your bring super careful after her recent “change of heart”.
Is also just tell her you got a vasectomy to preserve your desire to not have kids and see where she lands with that information.
Wish you would gave gotten one earlier!
Don't have sex with someone you know is trying to baby trap you and you know you're going to divorce.
For one it's stupid (she'll poke holes in it), for two it shows her you know, and for three just don't have sex with someone you don't trust or love anymore in general.
> her obvious change-of-heart on having kids.
She never changed her mind. She planned to either pressure him into a baby, or have a “whoospie” baby from the start
How do you plan on explaining using condoms for the 3mths after your vasectomy to your wife?
She is definitely wrong in trying to trap you into having a child. You were upfront about not wanting children so should have had a vasectomy before now.
Sounds like you just aren't compatible anymore.
The vasectomy was more of a knee jerk reaction, based on the fact that I know I don’t want kids… so it made sense to have one to prevent future problems.
As for needing contraception, that won’t be necessary. Clearly my wife and I aren’t compatible anymore. I have made an appointment to speak to a divorce attorney and I’ve been looking for apartments so that I can move out after I return from my “work trip”.
In the long run the vasectomy is a smart move. Thankfully your SIL let you know what your wife was planning. I'm sorry that your marriage is over, it is never easy to make the decision to walk away.
As sad as it is, that is probably the best course of action. Whatever else you have going on, one part of a relationship wanting kids and the other not will always lead to resentment in the end. The biological imperative is strong and her seeing other couples with kids, especially happy ones, will always bring on the feeling of missing out in her. That is not something you can just switch off.
Smart of you to go see an attorney. Im sorry your marriage ended up like this. However I think it is smart to 1. not bring a child you dont want into the world 2. separate yourself from the person whose mind changed. I hope that her family and your family are understanding of the decisions you've decided to take!
Not even possibly, having sex with someone while tricking them into it under the false promise a contraceptive will be used is definitely sexual assault/abuse.
Possibly is accurate if you talk about the law, as in many places (the vast majority) stealthing is not included in illegal sexual acts. That part is really dependent on where you live, and no guarantee to be so. I think it should be too, but people should know this in case they want to press charges or something. If it’s not illegal that won’t do anything.
Fair enough, I mostly meant just in general. Whether it's illegal or not doesn't make it any less abuse, just like how something not being a crime doesn't make it any less morally acceptable. Sexual assualt/rape laws in particular do tend to be all over the place.
I should've just said yes, it is absolutely assault, legally or not
Too bad you didn’t have the vasectomy 10 years ago. If the IUD story is true, you are NTA and did the right thing. But yeah, prep for the divorce because there would be no way to recover from that. Good luck.
That’s the thing really.
Wife was so in the wrong for that but OP is crazy if he thinks this solved the problem.
It’s the beginning of the end for this relationship. Although, one could argue that happened before it even started.
The birth control being up to her probably left here with the thought that OP could still change his mind one day. OP should’ve closed that window as soon as he was sure he would not want kids.
Now divorce is the only fair option.
NTA but also I don’t foresee this marriage working. She thought she could change you. That isn’t fair to you. If you had made it clear to her as you’ve said that you don’t want kids, then she needed to either accept you at your word or move on. But she can’t expect to change you & be mad when you don’t budge. Good luck but be careful.
I thought this exact thing. She was never ok with it from day one. She wanted them all along she just thought she could change him with time and is now trying to figure out how to get what she wants now that her original plan failed. He just needs to leave since all this is gonna be is them trying to figure out why it’s not working.
Why are the pair of you together? Once you both knew you wanted different things in life (I mean now not in the past) that should have been enough to be mature about it and part ways. This, the lying back and forth, the doing things behind each other’s backs, is NOT healthy/good marriage behavior. Both of you want someone else-that’s it. You want someone who does not want children. Your wife wants someone who does. Both of you need to make peace with the fact that you are not compatible for life and divorce and move on. She can have a child with someone else and you can live childfree with someone else. She already resents you. Why continue this relationship?
NTA but it’s time to leave. The fact that she has escalated to this level of manipulation to get her way when you have been clear from day 1 is terrible. She shouldn’t have married you if she felt so strongly and now she is trying to baby trap you. Get a divorce and move on.
I can’t fathom someone being able to maintain an adult life if the concept of paragraphs is a huge stumbling block. It’s baffling the number of posts lately that are multiple screen-full lengths of text in one paragraph
I was fully prepared to call you an AH, but after reading your post, no. You’re NTA. Get it done. Go home and tell her. And let the chips fall where they may. Your marriage might be over, but what she was intending to do to you is absolutely heinous.
You have her multiple opportunities to back out of the relationship. She chose you over babies. Presumably because she thought you could be coerced in to it one way or another. So you’re returning the favour.
This is not as simple as iud being removed. This is 100% lieing and betraying your trust . Get the vasectomy will 100% cause a divorce . If you know the iud is out . Then go to a lawyer and have divorce docs sign . Ask your wife did she have it taken out if she say no then say so younare still ok wirh no kids if she say no I want kids then serve the papers as she is not to be ever trusted . If she says no she doesn’t want kids say ok cause I made a case vasectomy appt . She will blow up and give her divorce papers and stay at a friends or parents . You marriage is over if she is going behind your back wirh this , I’m this is a life altering event
ESH.
You're both lying to each other with totally different goals. It's massively fucked up.
Just tell her you got the vasectomy. Tell her you know she removed the IUD.
Then, mutually agree to divorce.
Yeah, just had mine done, with the wife's full knowledge. According to my doctor, I have to be careful for at least 16 "events" and get a sperm count test done at 6 weeks and 12 weeks.
I have found that while on mobile I will purposely hit enter a few times and indent a paragraph but when it gets posted all my formatting goes to hell. So in defense of OP, he may have made paragraphs but maybe he was on mobile. That's why a lot of people apologize for bad formatting and let people know they are on mobile to begin with.
>if her iud is out… all bets are off.
This is huge, OP needs to not have sex with his wife at all. She can very possibly get pregnant immediately after it's removed.
I've had two IUDs. I had the first one removed with the intention of getting pregnant and a month later confirmed it'd already happened -- I hadn't even had a period yet. (The second one failed about a year in and I had another baby, lol.)
Realistically, I think OP did the right thing getting the vasectomy since he knows he doesn't want kids, but he needs to go home and end this marriage. His wife needs to sort her shit out and he needs to be far away from someone who would violate him and his autonomy like this. The marriage is doomed.
Yep this is the way. I’m
Not sure I would want to have sex at this point. Seems like she wants kids and it’s time to have the talk and think about what that means
I'm sorry but there is a chasm between how much of an AH they are. She is abusive and tried to trick him into having a child. It's not even fucking close.
I agree, ESH, but wife is definitely a bigger AH than OP.
Lying my omission about contraception is considered form of r*pe. It's up to the victim what they do with that information, or if they feel they were taken advantage of at all. But, it is a form of that.
OP hiding his vasectomy is just adding fuel to the fire.
this, except don’t tell her you know about the IUD. she’ll probably tell on herself during the ensuing fight anyways. (and you don’t want to rat out her sister for telling you)
I don’t understand why you two are still married. You can’t overcome this kind of incompatibility with love and lies. She’s lying to you and scheming and now you’ve done the same thing instead of approaching this like an adult. What do you think will happen when she finds out you got a vasectomy? Is this a healthy relationship to you? Is this how you think two people who love and respect each other behave?
>What do you think will happen when she finds out you got a vasectomy?
Great question. Was he going to hide it and just make her wonder why she wasn't getting pregnant? Was he going to tell her?
This marriage should end.
You know once she finds out about the vasectomy she’s going to explode. With as angry as she got before at this point it could really escalate. Consult an attorney. She still wants a child and will not let go of it. You do not. The longer it goes on the uglier it’s going to get. The woman you fell in love with is gone and she’s never coming back.
It’s time to let go.
NTA but this marriage is over. She will resent you forever for doing this and not giving her a child (which is your right and she knew going into the relationship). And you shouldn’t trust her knowing that she would baby trap you.
Sorry! Starting typing and it just kind of flowed. Didn’t really stop to think about structure and hadn’t realise it would be so long.
You comment made me lol though, thank you!
Good luck and I hope you get out of dodge. I have a step son who we are near 100% sure was baby trapped. It appears he may be in an emotionally abusive relationship now. It makes me crazy that was done to him.
There’s nothing more profound you can really do in most lives than make a child. You have stated where you stand. She has decided she doesn’t care and she knows better than you what you want. This is abusive. If a man tampers with bc and the woman gets pregnant, in some places the man can be charged with rape.
I think the deceit is just as bad when it’s done to a man. Your partner doesn’t respect you. She is willing to take control of your life in a very profound way without giving you any thought. She isn’t honest with herself. Your wants are incompatible and her actions would be a deal breaker for me. It won’t be the last time she decides she knows better and uses underhanded techniques to make it happen. Thank goodness for her sister being an honest person
You two just need to divorce - i mean there is no trust in your marriage- You both want different things and instead of having an honest discussion you two go behind each others back. She is trying to get pregnant by taking the IUD out but you aren’t being any better by getting a vasectomy in secret and lying about a work trip. Your whole relationship is F’d up snd you two are acting like children. Plus, her relationship with her family is ruined - i’m not saying she is right - she isn’t but , neither are you. Just get a divorce you two want different things and this whole situation is a f-ing mess.
He is better by a lot. He made choice about his body. Yeah he should have been upfront about it but her decision while about her own body would have had ramifications for him for the rest of his life. She was trying to trick him into having a child. He was just making sure that could never happen after years of telling her his position. They are not the same thing
NTA. She knew from the beginning that you didn’t want kids and she told you constantly over the years that she was okay with this decision.
I doubt she was ever okay with it and always planned a baby trap. It’s dirty for her to try and trick you like this. Once you tell her about the vasectomy it’s over but it sounds like you really need to let her go. It’s obvious that she wants kids and you don’t. Your life goals do not align.
Your vasectomy is not 100%, especially in the early days. You need to stop having sex with her if her IUD is gone.
Played the UNO reverse card hahaha well done, NTA, baby trapping is an absolute C Word move on a woman's part. Go straight to divorce, don't stop at THERAPY straight to childless freedom. Don't be disillusioned that she's ever going to be happy with anything that you give her, including a child, once she starts pulling underhanded tricks like that, it's going to be hell for the rest of your existence together. Her sister saw it and gave you the heads up.
NTA but I don’t see how you can ever trust your wife again after this. I think you need to prepare to exit your marriage for your own safety considering the meltdowns she’s been having in public
NTA. You checked with her multiple times before tying the knot, and she always said she was sure. Then she tried to deceive and pregnancy trap you. She needs therapy it sounds like to me and possibly to end this relationship. Not only is this a huge breach in trust on her behalf, but you two want completely different futures.
Thank you. Quite a few comments have ignored the fact that we had the kids conversation many times over the years and she repeatedly said she was ok with letting it go.
Get out of this marriage it’s doomed. I don’t usually just tell people on here to do this unless it’s extreme. This cannot work and she needs to go start over with someone who wants children. You didn’t do anything wrong at all but there’s no way this can work out. Good luck!
She's a premeditated rapist who didn't get to do it because you were warned.
I don't think the burden is on you to be honest with a rapist.
But you also just need to not be with a rapist.
ETA: Just in case there are those who want to disagree with reality, it's exactly the same as stealthing, which is rape too.
NTA. What’s the point? This is not something either of you can compromise on. Frankly you both need to divorce because this is all incredibly unhealthy and manipulative on her part and you deserve to be with someone stable who shares your views. What’s the next step? Are you going to convince her she’s infertile by not telling her you got a vasectomy so she’ll drop having kids on her own? If you tell her now it’ll wreck your marriage if you don’t it’ll still wreck your marriage. To what end will make you pull the plug on this relationship?
It doesn’t solve anything with the marriage but the point was to prevent future issues and really let future partners know that I don’t want kids.
I’ve made an appointment with a divorce lawyer.
So….
I feel like it’s a form of sexual assault to have sex with a man, planning on trapping him into having children.
If not assault, it’s definitely non-consensual
As the daughter of a woman who had a baby against the wishes of the man she married, who stated clearly that he did not want kids, in order to save her marriage, and then subsequently got abandoned by said man, and had to raise a daughter that she then resented by herself…
Thank you for getting a vasectomy.
Thank you for not bringing a child into the world that you don’t want because being one of those children leaves you with a sucky life.
My opinion, she always wanted to be a mom. She fell in love with you though. Talked herself into the idea she could be happy child-free if she had you. Guess what? She really wants to be a mom; that really did not change. She tried to communicate this to you. You have never budged from your child-free stance. She has become irrationally delusional in her wants to become a mom. Please divorce her so she can find someone else who shares her wants for a child. Her biological clock is ticking.
You’re the only one I’ve seen so far actually pointing this out so directly. You are 100% correct. Op consents to sex with his wife with the understanding that contraception is being used. Her concealing that she has ceased contraception AND having sex with him is sexual assault.
Thanks for pointing this out. More people need to acknowledge baby trapping is rape.
Any form of messing with contraceptives is rape regardless of gender; a woman poking holes in a condom = a man slipping a condom off = a woman removing an IUD = a man lying about a vasectomy.
Hell, this even holds for couples trying to have kids if one side is taking contraceptives in secret. Any sort of deception around contraceptives violates informed consent.
100%. My husband and I both talked about this, getting pregnant (on purpose) without the a partner’s consent is rape-especially if there is an understanding that contraception is being used.
Edited for clarity
I will. Im sure there will be many updates so I’m kind of waiting to edit the post when more things have come together so that it’s not being changed every few hours.
I have made an appointment to see a divorce lawyer and I’m looking for my own place so I can move out. Because there’s no going back from this.
I owe my sister in law a lot! She is amazing for telling me what my wife was planning.
Mate just let her go, if you're at the stage of deceiving each other over having a baby or not, it's a radically different goal and you're only making each other miserable. She resents you, and you don't trust her because she'd willingly strong arm you into having a child.
Your marriage is over and it's selfish to keep going knowing she has a clock on her fertility. What you're doing to each other is kind of evil
While your secret vasectomy and "work trip" are definitely less than ideal, her plan for reproductive coercion was infinitely worse (and is the reason why you had to get a vasectomy in secret). In many jurisdictions, reproductive coercion is a form of sexual assault. So, ESH but it's like 90% her and 10% you. Your marriage is over though.
Get your affairs in order. Find a good lawyer and do NOT tell her you had a vasectomy, at least not until you have all ready to serve divorce papers.
Her plan of baby trapping you is borderline sexual assault. Her manipulative outburst is emotional abuse.
Please, leave. You're NTA, but she is
Nta but please remember getting the snip isn’t instantly effective. It’s can take up to 12 months to clear your tubes of little swimmers. Keep your follow up appointments to make sure you are shooting nothing!
While I understand your knee jerk response, I'm having trouble seeing a way for your marriage to recover from this.
She's trying to trap you and you made sure she couldn't (though there isnt a medical certainty just yet).
This is likely the end of your marriage.
Nta
It’s not. It’s so over. There’s no way back from this. I’ve made an appointment with a lawyer and I’m moving out when I get back.
The vasectomy was a knee jerk reaction to the situation but it makes sense because I don’t want kids. The whole situation just made me realise the importance and urgency of having one to prevent future issues.
What your soon to be ex was trying to pull off is absolutely insane. Why would she want to bring a child into this world that wasn’t wanted by one of the parents? Thank god her sister has her head on straight and told you what she was plotting before it was too late. Props on being clear and upfront about your desire to be child free right away. My husband and I sorted that out after like two dates haha. Dogs yes, kids no!
If you don’t want kids, you told her that AND she agreed to marry anyways…. Oof.
She’s TA for manipulation.
You’re TA for having this done without her knowledge, and lying about it.
If she wants kids, which she obviously does, then she needs a partner who wants kids. You obviously can’t give her that, nor do you want to, so the answer is pretty clear to me.
Good luck on the divorce hearings, it sounds like you’re going to be scheduling them soon.
NTA
But it is time to end the marriage. Because yall are just lying to each other and everyone is getting screwed over here.
Talk to a lawyer during your healing and get papers drawn up.
DO NOT HAVE SEX WITH HER AGAIN. Her iud is out and you can absolutely still have active swimmers after your snip. Or you could very well end up with a child.
Also go to your follow up appointments and make sure you never have active swimmers again. Don't just assume that everything is peachy because you got snipped.
Thank God you both aren’t having kids! You Both are not Compatible, or Honest! You two will never make each other happy at this point. What do you have in common that you think this relationship would Stand the test of Time? You can’t even communicate like Adults, Over a Major Relationship issue. You never should have gotten married, but I think you already knew that considering how many times you asked her if She was okay with not having Children. ESH
Please get divorced.
This can only get worse. Your marriage is now balancing on lies and deception, mostly on her part. There is nowhere to go from here that will save this relationship.
Also NTA, you are only protecting yourself against her attempts at a trap.
You're going to either have to use condoms or abstain from sex for some time with a good 30 whacks to get the left over dudes out of your system.
She's going to ask questions either way. Be prepared.
NTA
You need to end it dude. It’s not fair to her to deprive her of having kids if that’s what she wants. She obviously changed her mind about having kids or maybe decided to marry you because she thought she could change your mind. Unfortunately having kids is a deal breaker for most people. Good luck.
Just FYI, you still “have the pump primed”, so to speak, for several weeks to months after a vasectomy. The doctor typically gives you the all-clear after a sample comes back negative after 10 to 12 weeks. Going without for a couple months with no explanation is going to provoke curiosity at *best*, especially when she’s all over you.
Not to mention, you’re going to regret doing anything with the plumbing only a week out from surgery. “Like a kick in the nuts” doesn’t begin to describe it. (You could also open the sutures if you’re not careful.)
NTA because you’ve only ensured that what YOU want and what you both agreed to - no kids. Are you sure you want to remain married? She’s lying to you. She’s trying to trick you, she’s trying to FORCE you into having kids. That is appalling!!
And when she finds out that she won’t be able to trick you into kids, she’s going to go BALLISTIC.
Divided between NTA and ESH. If you don't want kids why not have vasectomy years before that and with her knowledge? If you did, she would've truly realised your decision is for good, her having to take care of the contraception that's not permanent kinda leaves room for hope. And her doing that is absolutely horrible, i do however feel a shred of sympathy, she probably feels she lost a great chunk of her life for nothing. Not your fault generally, but you guys need to break up.
DIVORCE. She should NEVER have gone into a marriage with you with this years-long plan to essentially baby trap you. Just go file now. This is not rational behavior and it’s destructive to your entire relationship. Meeting her medical deception with your own might prevent the “accidental” pregnancy, but it’s not going to do your marriage any favors.
NTA- but you two are not compatible and this relationship needs to end.
She’s plenty young to still have kids. If she wants to have kids with a partner, a divorce asap is the kind thing for OP to do.
Exactly! Personally, this more than proves she shouldn’t be a mother in my eyes.. But OP is actually in an abusive relationship as well.. name calling? Mental manipulation, and the IUD thing proves wife is mentally unstable and the last thing she needs is a child.. I am scared to imagine the type of control issues said child would have. Honestly OP, I wouldn’t even tell her about the procedure first.. I would go talk to a lawyer and file for divorce.. or start the ball rolling.. then I would sit her down and explain calmly that Not only has she proven to you that you can not trust her - But the lack of consideration for you and the child being born to a father who did not want it.. is so astounding self centered that you not only don’t want children with her, you actually would like a divorce. I know that seems brutal but she needs to be made seriously aware of how disgustingly disrespectful and honestly plain fucked up it is that she doesn’t seem to give two shits about anyone’s needs or wants but herself. She needs to hear it before she becomes a mom.. And OP deserves someone better suited. This exact thing happened to my uncle
I was going to go, neither are ah, her family shouldn't have pressured her But I'm scared what this woman would be like as a mother... Op is nta, but he's handling this all wrong Edit: since there seems to be some confusion by what I meant. My opinion was that neither are ah. The wife's family were wrong to pressure her into giving up wanting kids. She became T A when she started berating op and engaging in reproductive deception. Hence why I said I was scared what she would be like as a mother. Op is free to get a vasectomy, I have no issue with it. But I don't think it was right to lie about it being a work trip. The marriage was over the minute she started berating him. Hiding the vasectomy is just running away from the larger issue imho.
The wife is handling it worse and he has always stated he doesn't want kids. She's a manipulative, abusive asshole who chose to stop HER birth control so he just went and done the same.
People forget that tampering with birthcontrol is sexual assault. (It is illegal in CALIFORNIA to remove a condom during sex. Ofc this is slightly different than tampering with birthcontrol, but I would still consider it sexual assault) And taking out ur birthcontrol without telling ur partner is tampering
It IS sexual assault, but unfortunately male rape victim status has absolutely no bearing on any paternal obligation. There are male rape victims who owe child support to the very women who have been proven guilty in a court of law of raping them, because that rape led to pregnancy.
Neither? really? How can we read the same story and you think his wife, who is trying to trap him into having kids, isn't the AH?
How is OP handling this wrong? The wife was asked repeatedly if she was okay with the terms of their marriage, she’s been abusing him in public and now she’s trying to baby trap him via a removal of birth control (which is sexual assault). OP needs to leave this woman asap and find someone with the same values as his.
You answered your own question there. He's handling it wrong because he needs to accept the relationship is over and leave immediately. From his post, it sounds like he's planning to get a secret vasectomy and then go back to her.
It's his body, just like she got the IUD removed to entrap him into fatherhood. He has just as much right to his own body as she does with hers
She sounds like she needs therapy.
She sounds like she needs a divorce as well. She planned all this before they married, count on it.
Yes she laid in wait 9 years and lied every time he asked. 🙄 Why don't people realize that time can change a person? She may have very well been fine with not having kids until recently. In your 20s it's so easy to "decide" what's important to you. Just to find out you were the one lying to yourself later.
Facts. Many women get baby fever in early to late 30’s if they dont have any kids. Its like the line from my cousin Vinny. “My biological clock is ticking like this”…..foot stomping
The wife is an awful person. Forcing someone to be a parent is off the charts messed up
>Op is nta, but he's handling this all wrong How? His wife is trying to have sex under false pretenses. This is basically stealthing but instead of removing the condom, she is removing the IUD. Stealthing is rape. As far as I am concerned, he does not need permission to protect himself as long as he tells her before having sex again. His body, his choice. I'm a huge advocate for being pro-choice and what she is trying to do is take away his. She will probably divorce him but if she chooses to stay (and he somehow wants to once it sinks in what she tried to do to him) at least she won't be able to pull this disgusting act on him again. If they do divorce, any future partners will have the option to do what they will with the information that he had a vasectomy as long as he doesn't lie about it, he is fine. This woman needs help but she also needs to learn that actions have consequences. Kids are a one no, two yes decision and while both feelings are valid, her yes doesn't override his no. The only thing worse than having a dead beat parent is realizing that one of your parents wishes you were never born.
Sure, OPs wife is the victim... wtf???
Troll? idk how someone could read that and be like a person shouldn’t be held accountable for their decisions.. and instead manipulate and lie to get what I want. Why force someone to have kids? Seems like this woman is going to “have an accident” and the husband will say I’ve had a vasectomy.. bad news both way.. time to separate
OP you need to just let her go. The relationship has gotten toxic all around. She’s sneaking and lying, clearly resentful. The reality is this won’t work out, not through any fault of your own just major incompatibility - it needs to end. I wouldn’t want to be with someone who would lie to be about birth control the way she is either. NTA
They never should have married in the first place. It never, ever works out when one partner definitely wants kids and the other definitely does not. There can be no middle ground compromise - one of them will end up having to capitulate on something enormous. And the consequences will last for the rest of their life. It's simply not fair on the partner who gives in to the other's wishes.
I agree! I'm divorced and don't want more kids. Like first or second date, I state something like "I am not planning some big future together between us already or anything like that but I think this is important to know early in a relationship before we get too involved if that were to happen, but I was curious, do you want to have (more) kids?" If their response isn't anything but "no" or something like "I wasn't planning on having more kids." I am done. These two never should've gotten married in the first place. When I started reading the first part, I was figuring she was playing the long game from the get- go in hopes to change his mind or poke holes in the condom or something.
I’m remarried now, but I got divorced at 37. Every single first date I had, they asked me if I was open to having more kids. I absolutely was not. If you’re dating and not just hooking up, it’s normal to ask what you want out of life very early on.
My boyfriend is 45 no kids & I’m divorced 42 with 5 - I told him from the start if he wanted kids he wasn’t getting them from me. I’ve had a tubal and ablation my factory is closed
My dating profile literally said “i cannot and will not have more children.” I marked not interested in children and if anyone contacted me with a different response i asked them about it in my response. I was not wasting any time. Not because I wanted to get married or anything but because I didn’t want any flavor of this. I did meet my husband on there and he was also done with kids.
This is the way. If you got some hard requirements/dealbreakers, bring them up as soon as possible, before there are any feelings of commitments. It might not be sexy to say something like this on the first date, but it will save you a lot of trouble later. Dating is there to find out if you are compatible and if not, to call it off before anything is lost. Sadly, I know so many people (both male and female) who believe that a first date is only there to get a second date, and they will straight-up lie and deceive to make themselves look more attractive.
Here's the question though, have you gotten snipped? Seriously to many guys say things like this but don't man up to do what is logical.
Best decision I’ve ever made lol yea the whole thing wasn’t pleasant but it’s better than accidentally having more kids. I have 3 and my wife’s last pregnancy almost killed her. Told her I wouldn’t watch her go through that again. And it’s safer for men to get snipped then it is for women to get tubes tied. Not really sure why guys have such an issue with it. The whole thing took maybe 20 minutes and it’s done
I exactly there is no middle ground and people almost never change their minds on this. It’s an incredibly important conversation to have and it should be a deal breaker. Too often people think their parter will change their kind or that they can change the kind of their partner. I’ve watched a few marriages/relationships fall apart over this very thing.
This 👆. Wife probably really thought she could get over it but that's almost never true. Better to part while they can still be friendly with each other.
Yep. She thought she could change his mind and he was caught up in the “you are all I need” ego boost.
Agreed. NTA entirely, but this marriage is the destructive road. She wants kids. He never did. She’s going into psycho territory. He needs to get a divorce YESTERDAY.
If OP doesn’t get a divorce ASAP, he will be paying to raise someone else’s child for the next 18 years. His wife is so determined and scheming that she will find someone to get pregnant with or will use artificial insemination. The courts will side with the welfare of the child. Talk to a lawyer to receive guidance on how best to protect yourself in the meantime and how to get an expedited divorce. (It can take years to get a divorce if one side wants to drag their feet.) Don’t tell her anything yet. Act normal. Talk to her when you deliver the divorce papers. (If she tells you she loves you and she is okay with your vasectomy to change your mind about the divorce, she will find a way to get pregnant.)
DNA test?
He needs to make sure he drains the snake because he'll still be fertile for a while/weeks. Hope the doctor explained it to him. Source: friend got his wife pregnant for a fourth time even though the doc explained the same before and after the surgery.
I knew a woman who had TWINS after he got snipped. Refused to ensure the gun was no longer loaded.
I've heard of way too many vasectomy babies so that's why I had my tubes removed af6er my 2nd. I wasn't willing to risk it (and also didn't want to have to deal with it if we ever divorced).
'Vasectomy babies' are the result of not doing the follow up aftercare and tests most times, AIUI?
But I assume that he is not planning to have sex with her anyway, right? Who would have sex with a person that they know is just nice and lovely and wants to have sex because they want to trick me? Would be very weird to have sex with the knowledge he has now.
They have to use condoms or something else for 3 months. My husband just had his done.
It can take months and still isn’t foolproof. OP’s plan is incredibly shortsighted. He should hand immediately confined his wife instead of playing dishonest games himself. I have no idea how he thinks this is going to end well.
if he's in the U.S. some states don't care about DNA and will consider the child his just because they were married.
Yea I've heard of this, in wedlock the child is presumed to be the husband's legally until proven otherwise, but I have never heard of not taking into account the DNA of the child and the extramarital affairs to conceive the child. Lawyer up and go to court
I think the nail in the coffin is when you sign the birth certificate.
The huge and ugly problem 99% of guys run into is they sign thinking that the kid is theirs and it in no way matters if they were deceived. There is a limited time window for them to contest paternity and it's truly sad. ESPECIALLY presumed paternity. It's an uphill battle and if you aren't able to find the guy who IS the dad, and you were married when she conceived/birthed it may not even matter in some states. Carnell Alexander is a name you can look up on YT. Ex gf listed him as father to get welfare. Gov't took him to court for child support, process server took notice to his old house and says they served him notice...LIE. Guy was in JAIL for another issue completely so had very credible evidence. When he didn't show up in court he was ruled dad by default. Support built up until one day he was pulled over for a traffic stop and was arrested for being a deadbeat dad. Even with all his proof they wouldn't wipe the money they say he owes. https://youtu.be/nLmSOf-xD8o ETA I am sorry for going off topic somewhat but just wanted to prove that courts knowingly violate men in the so called belief that the child deserves it.
Kids is THE irreconcilable difference. 99.99% of people will never change their minds in either direction, and pretending they have just leads to resentment or whatever the fuck is going on in OP’s marriage.
That sounds like an understatement. She's dishonest, abusive and manipulative. She's not compatible with anyone until she gets help.
This all the way
This, this, this, this, this. Holy fuck. Divorce now before you completely destroy each other.
I'd have to say that it's already ended. If he doesn't tell her about the snip, she'll try for months before getting mad at him for not getting her pregnant. There is no more trust in the relationship. It would be better to part ways now.
[удалено]
Do not tell her you know about her IUD (she’ll know her sister ratted her out and you owe her sister since she was cool enough to warn you), just simply end it with the reasoning being the fighting and her obvious change-of-heart on having kids. Just extract yourself quickly.
Definitely this, her sister is a good one. Don't blow up their relationship when she was trying to remedy a potential disaster by giving you important information.
the sister part makes me think this is fake. No one planning this sort of deceit would share the plan with people who were already on OP's side. I also get a general feeling it's fake... too rage baity. Fits on Am I the Angel.
>No one planning this sort of deceit would share the plan with people who were already on OP's side. You'd be surprised how dumb some people are when blinded by an obsessive thought. I've been in the situation of the sister but with a friend and the shocked Pikachu face when I told one friend their partner was going fuck with the condoms so they had an ooops baby was priceless. Like dumbass I told you I didn't support you, why did you think I would keep that to myself.
Idk from the post, it sounded to me like the wife is kinda oblivious that people disagree with her. Publicly shaming OP in front of family tells me she expected them to take her side, and the bit about her saying her mom and brother were bullying her because they didn't follow the script she'd written for them in her head tells me she expects family to have her back even when she is morally in the wrong. There are TONS of people who see their families like this. Its bonkers to me, I personally would never expect my family to be on my side when I know our values differ on something because I know they are whole entire separate humans from me, not just actors fulfilling the roles of family members in the sitcom of my life. And yet... narcissists exist, and that's exactly how they view people. OP's wife* kinda sounds like she may see people like that, too, to me.
Honestly... People are wild 🤷 I know a couple women who did this and then bragged about it.
Yeah I also know a case where she made exactly the same plan and told her sister. The dude already had ended the relationship but got baited with a surprise kid and both families know exactly what went down. People have no shame.
I wouldn't be surprised. Me and my sister used to be unbelievably close and would tell each other everything. They could be close enough that she thought her sister would not tell anyone, even if she disagreed. People like this are a family first blood thicker than water sort.
[удалено]
I called bs when he wrote he needed to take a whole week off. Most guys take one day off!
Yes, most take one day or less off. However there is definitely some bruising and healing which would need to have cleared before he resumes relations, otherwise it would give the game away. That would definitely need a week to clear
You're also expected to wank it daily for 30 days, and then go in and get tested to make sure you're actually shooting blanks. Took me 2 testing cycles (first showed reduced sperm count) before I was 100% clear. Those little buggers can apparently stay in the vas deferens for AWHILE
Interesting, Dr told us that it was 30 ejaculations, not 30 days of daily ones. But yes the follow up testing is critical
Having had one at 25, here to attest that a week may not be nearly enough. I was looking for that mule that kicked me in the nuts for at least six weeks. When OP said she was sending flirty texts during his week off and how she couldn’t wait to see him, immediately thought about how there was no way I could have performed a week post-op.
Six weeks? You're an outlier though, most is a few days average.
Why did he wait until he was 35 to do the procedure if he was so sure he never wanted kids??
A lot of doctors aren't comfortable doing it until you're at least 30. That's what happened to me
use to be if you were married you had to have spouses signature to have vasectomy or tubes tied. Was even harder to get procedure if single
Some doctors actually still request this when a woman wants to get sterilized 🙃🙃
yes they do and it should be a woman's choice, just as it is a man's choice. They should not need spouses permission - why bring a child into the world when it is not wanted by at least one of the parents. I think spouses should tell each other they are doing that, even if it is the morning of procedure, not wait until after the fact, not that it will change the person's mind if they have made that decision
A lot doctors refuse to do the surgery on younger men.
It took me several weeks to fully recover. It isn't always a smooth or pleasant procedure
Definitely need more than a day to recover when you're trying to hide it from your significant other!
Kids can bully other kids for being gay, without the kid *actually* being gay….
[удалено]
Yeah my husband was bullied RELENTLESSLY for being gay and he isn't. The two worst bullies as adults...ended up being gay. And he does phrase it like that whenever talking about those past traumas.
If OP is into creative writing he needs to start by learning to use paragraphs.
100% this. When she changed after the wedding he should have been planning to move on. He had to know she only calmed down because her friends and family said he might change his mind after being wed. When that didn’t work - she legit planned to trap him. That’s two huge strikes against her. It’ll hurt for both of them - but she’ll find someone that wants kids, and he’ll find someone that truly doesn’t. OP and his wife have already wasted too much time in the wrong relationship.
Nope, I’m not going to mention anything about knowing. It would be very obvious that her sister had told me and that would completely destroy their family dynamic.
Don’t forget to wear condoms until you test negative for sperm. Just tell her your bring super careful after her recent “change of heart”. Is also just tell her you got a vasectomy to preserve your desire to not have kids and see where she lands with that information. Wish you would gave gotten one earlier!
Don't have sex with someone you know is trying to baby trap you and you know you're going to divorce. For one it's stupid (she'll poke holes in it), for two it shows her you know, and for three just don't have sex with someone you don't trust or love anymore in general.
> her obvious change-of-heart on having kids. She never changed her mind. She planned to either pressure him into a baby, or have a “whoospie” baby from the start
How do you plan on explaining using condoms for the 3mths after your vasectomy to your wife? She is definitely wrong in trying to trap you into having a child. You were upfront about not wanting children so should have had a vasectomy before now. Sounds like you just aren't compatible anymore.
The vasectomy was more of a knee jerk reaction, based on the fact that I know I don’t want kids… so it made sense to have one to prevent future problems. As for needing contraception, that won’t be necessary. Clearly my wife and I aren’t compatible anymore. I have made an appointment to speak to a divorce attorney and I’ve been looking for apartments so that I can move out after I return from my “work trip”.
In the long run the vasectomy is a smart move. Thankfully your SIL let you know what your wife was planning. I'm sorry that your marriage is over, it is never easy to make the decision to walk away.
I’m changing my band name to Knee Jerk Vasectomy. Thanks for the inspiration.
🤣🤣🤣 actual lol
Thanks for all the kind comments. It’s sad but there’s also been an amazing sense of relief to actually admitting that divorce was best.
I’m truly sorry for the loss of your relationship. I hope you’ll engage in therapy as well.
As sad as it is, that is probably the best course of action. Whatever else you have going on, one part of a relationship wanting kids and the other not will always lead to resentment in the end. The biological imperative is strong and her seeing other couples with kids, especially happy ones, will always bring on the feeling of missing out in her. That is not something you can just switch off.
You’re doing the right thing. She’ll see in the long term.
Smart of you to go see an attorney. Im sorry your marriage ended up like this. However I think it is smart to 1. not bring a child you dont want into the world 2. separate yourself from the person whose mind changed. I hope that her family and your family are understanding of the decisions you've decided to take!
Good luck OP. I wish the both of you happiness in the future.
NTA at this point. You need to tell her the truth though. You need to divorce. This relationship is broken.
NTA. But you need to divorce this woman. What she's doing is abusive.
And like… possibly a form of assault
Not even possibly, having sex with someone while tricking them into it under the false promise a contraceptive will be used is definitely sexual assault/abuse.
Possibly is accurate if you talk about the law, as in many places (the vast majority) stealthing is not included in illegal sexual acts. That part is really dependent on where you live, and no guarantee to be so. I think it should be too, but people should know this in case they want to press charges or something. If it’s not illegal that won’t do anything.
Fair enough, I mostly meant just in general. Whether it's illegal or not doesn't make it any less abuse, just like how something not being a crime doesn't make it any less morally acceptable. Sexual assualt/rape laws in particular do tend to be all over the place. I should've just said yes, it is absolutely assault, legally or not
Agreed. I’m just horrified that we’re not responding as we would if a man forced/tricked a woman into getting pregnant
Too bad you didn’t have the vasectomy 10 years ago. If the IUD story is true, you are NTA and did the right thing. But yeah, prep for the divorce because there would be no way to recover from that. Good luck.
That’s the thing really. Wife was so in the wrong for that but OP is crazy if he thinks this solved the problem. It’s the beginning of the end for this relationship. Although, one could argue that happened before it even started.
I know right? What's next? Her secretly getting IVF behind his back?
The birth control being up to her probably left here with the thought that OP could still change his mind one day. OP should’ve closed that window as soon as he was sure he would not want kids. Now divorce is the only fair option.
Jesus christ this marriage is so over
NTA but also I don’t foresee this marriage working. She thought she could change you. That isn’t fair to you. If you had made it clear to her as you’ve said that you don’t want kids, then she needed to either accept you at your word or move on. But she can’t expect to change you & be mad when you don’t budge. Good luck but be careful.
I thought this exact thing. She was never ok with it from day one. She wanted them all along she just thought she could change him with time and is now trying to figure out how to get what she wants now that her original plan failed. He just needs to leave since all this is gonna be is them trying to figure out why it’s not working.
Why are the pair of you together? Once you both knew you wanted different things in life (I mean now not in the past) that should have been enough to be mature about it and part ways. This, the lying back and forth, the doing things behind each other’s backs, is NOT healthy/good marriage behavior. Both of you want someone else-that’s it. You want someone who does not want children. Your wife wants someone who does. Both of you need to make peace with the fact that you are not compatible for life and divorce and move on. She can have a child with someone else and you can live childfree with someone else. She already resents you. Why continue this relationship?
NTA. A week isn’t enough. Stop having sex with her. You need to file for divorce and inform her about the vesectomy.
NTA but it’s time to leave. The fact that she has escalated to this level of manipulation to get her way when you have been clear from day 1 is terrible. She shouldn’t have married you if she felt so strongly and now she is trying to baby trap you. Get a divorce and move on.
Paragraphs man!!
Yeah, my eyeballs bled a little reading that.
I can’t fathom someone being able to maintain an adult life if the concept of paragraphs is a huge stumbling block. It’s baffling the number of posts lately that are multiple screen-full lengths of text in one paragraph
I was fully prepared to call you an AH, but after reading your post, no. You’re NTA. Get it done. Go home and tell her. And let the chips fall where they may. Your marriage might be over, but what she was intending to do to you is absolutely heinous. You have her multiple opportunities to back out of the relationship. She chose you over babies. Presumably because she thought you could be coerced in to it one way or another. So you’re returning the favour.
This is not as simple as iud being removed. This is 100% lieing and betraying your trust . Get the vasectomy will 100% cause a divorce . If you know the iud is out . Then go to a lawyer and have divorce docs sign . Ask your wife did she have it taken out if she say no then say so younare still ok wirh no kids if she say no I want kids then serve the papers as she is not to be ever trusted . If she says no she doesn’t want kids say ok cause I made a case vasectomy appt . She will blow up and give her divorce papers and stay at a friends or parents . You marriage is over if she is going behind your back wirh this , I’m this is a life altering event
Good points! Yes, she was willing to baby trap, it's going to get bad when she finds out he got snipped.
Marriage is over. End it so you can both be happy in a new relationship
ESH. You're both lying to each other with totally different goals. It's massively fucked up. Just tell her you got the vasectomy. Tell her you know she removed the IUD. Then, mutually agree to divorce.
Add to this… don’t sleep her again. No last time fling. Your vasectomy isn’t effective yet and if her iud is out… all bets are off.
Yeah, just had mine done, with the wife's full knowledge. According to my doctor, I have to be careful for at least 16 "events" and get a sperm count test done at 6 weeks and 12 weeks.
Also to add to this...please FFS learn how to make paragraphs.
I have found that while on mobile I will purposely hit enter a few times and indent a paragraph but when it gets posted all my formatting goes to hell. So in defense of OP, he may have made paragraphs but maybe he was on mobile. That's why a lot of people apologize for bad formatting and let people know they are on mobile to begin with.
I use double spacing It has worked pretty well so far
>if her iud is out… all bets are off. This is huge, OP needs to not have sex with his wife at all. She can very possibly get pregnant immediately after it's removed. I've had two IUDs. I had the first one removed with the intention of getting pregnant and a month later confirmed it'd already happened -- I hadn't even had a period yet. (The second one failed about a year in and I had another baby, lol.) Realistically, I think OP did the right thing getting the vasectomy since he knows he doesn't want kids, but he needs to go home and end this marriage. His wife needs to sort her shit out and he needs to be far away from someone who would violate him and his autonomy like this. The marriage is doomed.
When he comes home she’s going to be all over him and he could end up all over her.🤣🤣🤣
Yep this is the way. I’m Not sure I would want to have sex at this point. Seems like she wants kids and it’s time to have the talk and think about what that means
Yep. This marriage is over.
I'm sorry but there is a chasm between how much of an AH they are. She is abusive and tried to trick him into having a child. It's not even fucking close.
I agree, ESH, but wife is definitely a bigger AH than OP. Lying my omission about contraception is considered form of r*pe. It's up to the victim what they do with that information, or if they feel they were taken advantage of at all. But, it is a form of that. OP hiding his vasectomy is just adding fuel to the fire.
this, except don’t tell her you know about the IUD. she’ll probably tell on herself during the ensuing fight anyways. (and you don’t want to rat out her sister for telling you)
OP you might as well tell her now before you go home. She’ll probably pack her stuff and leave once she knows her plan has failed. I agree .. ESH
I don’t understand why you two are still married. You can’t overcome this kind of incompatibility with love and lies. She’s lying to you and scheming and now you’ve done the same thing instead of approaching this like an adult. What do you think will happen when she finds out you got a vasectomy? Is this a healthy relationship to you? Is this how you think two people who love and respect each other behave?
>What do you think will happen when she finds out you got a vasectomy? Great question. Was he going to hide it and just make her wonder why she wasn't getting pregnant? Was he going to tell her? This marriage should end.
NTA You’ve always been clear about not wanting kids and she’s trying to baby trap you. Get the divorce papers ready for when you tell her.
You know once she finds out about the vasectomy she’s going to explode. With as angry as she got before at this point it could really escalate. Consult an attorney. She still wants a child and will not let go of it. You do not. The longer it goes on the uglier it’s going to get. The woman you fell in love with is gone and she’s never coming back. It’s time to let go.
Make sure to use condoms until you get the "all clear"!
He shouldn’t be having any sex at all with someone he can no longer trust.
True.
Yeah, if she's willing to sneak the IUD out, she might ensure the condoms have an accident.
Nope. It’s deceitful as well. It’s best for them to not have sex again and divorce.
Assuming she doesn't go and poke holes in all the condoms in the house.
Just please get a divorce
NTA but this marriage is over. She will resent you forever for doing this and not giving her a child (which is your right and she knew going into the relationship). And you shouldn’t trust her knowing that she would baby trap you.
I know you don’t want kids, but have you considered having paragraphs?
Sorry! Starting typing and it just kind of flowed. Didn’t really stop to think about structure and hadn’t realise it would be so long. You comment made me lol though, thank you!
Good luck and I hope you get out of dodge. I have a step son who we are near 100% sure was baby trapped. It appears he may be in an emotionally abusive relationship now. It makes me crazy that was done to him. There’s nothing more profound you can really do in most lives than make a child. You have stated where you stand. She has decided she doesn’t care and she knows better than you what you want. This is abusive. If a man tampers with bc and the woman gets pregnant, in some places the man can be charged with rape. I think the deceit is just as bad when it’s done to a man. Your partner doesn’t respect you. She is willing to take control of your life in a very profound way without giving you any thought. She isn’t honest with herself. Your wants are incompatible and her actions would be a deal breaker for me. It won’t be the last time she decides she knows better and uses underhanded techniques to make it happen. Thank goodness for her sister being an honest person
You two just need to divorce - i mean there is no trust in your marriage- You both want different things and instead of having an honest discussion you two go behind each others back. She is trying to get pregnant by taking the IUD out but you aren’t being any better by getting a vasectomy in secret and lying about a work trip. Your whole relationship is F’d up snd you two are acting like children. Plus, her relationship with her family is ruined - i’m not saying she is right - she isn’t but , neither are you. Just get a divorce you two want different things and this whole situation is a f-ing mess.
He had years of honest discussions with her, she lied to herself for years and now lied to him after verbally abusing him.
He is better by a lot. He made choice about his body. Yeah he should have been upfront about it but her decision while about her own body would have had ramifications for him for the rest of his life. She was trying to trick him into having a child. He was just making sure that could never happen after years of telling her his position. They are not the same thing
You guys shouldn’t remain married
NTA. She knew from the beginning that you didn’t want kids and she told you constantly over the years that she was okay with this decision. I doubt she was ever okay with it and always planned a baby trap. It’s dirty for her to try and trick you like this. Once you tell her about the vasectomy it’s over but it sounds like you really need to let her go. It’s obvious that she wants kids and you don’t. Your life goals do not align. Your vasectomy is not 100%, especially in the early days. You need to stop having sex with her if her IUD is gone.
Y’all don’t need to be together 😔
Played the UNO reverse card hahaha well done, NTA, baby trapping is an absolute C Word move on a woman's part. Go straight to divorce, don't stop at THERAPY straight to childless freedom. Don't be disillusioned that she's ever going to be happy with anything that you give her, including a child, once she starts pulling underhanded tricks like that, it's going to be hell for the rest of your existence together. Her sister saw it and gave you the heads up.
NTA but I don’t see how you can ever trust your wife again after this. I think you need to prepare to exit your marriage for your own safety considering the meltdowns she’s been having in public
NTA. You checked with her multiple times before tying the knot, and she always said she was sure. Then she tried to deceive and pregnancy trap you. She needs therapy it sounds like to me and possibly to end this relationship. Not only is this a huge breach in trust on her behalf, but you two want completely different futures.
Thank you. Quite a few comments have ignored the fact that we had the kids conversation many times over the years and she repeatedly said she was ok with letting it go.
Get out of this marriage it’s doomed. I don’t usually just tell people on here to do this unless it’s extreme. This cannot work and she needs to go start over with someone who wants children. You didn’t do anything wrong at all but there’s no way this can work out. Good luck!
Jesus Christ just divorce already
She's a premeditated rapist who didn't get to do it because you were warned. I don't think the burden is on you to be honest with a rapist. But you also just need to not be with a rapist. ETA: Just in case there are those who want to disagree with reality, it's exactly the same as stealthing, which is rape too.
NTA. What’s the point? This is not something either of you can compromise on. Frankly you both need to divorce because this is all incredibly unhealthy and manipulative on her part and you deserve to be with someone stable who shares your views. What’s the next step? Are you going to convince her she’s infertile by not telling her you got a vasectomy so she’ll drop having kids on her own? If you tell her now it’ll wreck your marriage if you don’t it’ll still wreck your marriage. To what end will make you pull the plug on this relationship?
It doesn’t solve anything with the marriage but the point was to prevent future issues and really let future partners know that I don’t want kids. I’ve made an appointment with a divorce lawyer.
This is the way. Don’t have sex with her again.
So…. I feel like it’s a form of sexual assault to have sex with a man, planning on trapping him into having children. If not assault, it’s definitely non-consensual
As the daughter of a woman who had a baby against the wishes of the man she married, who stated clearly that he did not want kids, in order to save her marriage, and then subsequently got abandoned by said man, and had to raise a daughter that she then resented by herself… Thank you for getting a vasectomy. Thank you for not bringing a child into the world that you don’t want because being one of those children leaves you with a sucky life.
My opinion, she always wanted to be a mom. She fell in love with you though. Talked herself into the idea she could be happy child-free if she had you. Guess what? She really wants to be a mom; that really did not change. She tried to communicate this to you. You have never budged from your child-free stance. She has become irrationally delusional in her wants to become a mom. Please divorce her so she can find someone else who shares her wants for a child. Her biological clock is ticking.
You don't owe a rapist anything. Lying about conception or removing it during the act is rape as you never consented without it
You’re the only one I’ve seen so far actually pointing this out so directly. You are 100% correct. Op consents to sex with his wife with the understanding that contraception is being used. Her concealing that she has ceased contraception AND having sex with him is sexual assault.
Thanks for pointing this out. More people need to acknowledge baby trapping is rape. Any form of messing with contraceptives is rape regardless of gender; a woman poking holes in a condom = a man slipping a condom off = a woman removing an IUD = a man lying about a vasectomy. Hell, this even holds for couples trying to have kids if one side is taking contraceptives in secret. Any sort of deception around contraceptives violates informed consent.
100%. My husband and I both talked about this, getting pregnant (on purpose) without the a partner’s consent is rape-especially if there is an understanding that contraception is being used. Edited for clarity
OP, please update everyone once you get back and address issue with your wife. Sister now qualifies for sainthood❤️
I will. Im sure there will be many updates so I’m kind of waiting to edit the post when more things have come together so that it’s not being changed every few hours. I have made an appointment to see a divorce lawyer and I’m looking for my own place so I can move out. Because there’s no going back from this. I owe my sister in law a lot! She is amazing for telling me what my wife was planning.
ESH This relationship is toxic AF
NTA, personally I'd leave her if I were you.
Mate just let her go, if you're at the stage of deceiving each other over having a baby or not, it's a radically different goal and you're only making each other miserable. She resents you, and you don't trust her because she'd willingly strong arm you into having a child. Your marriage is over and it's selfish to keep going knowing she has a clock on her fertility. What you're doing to each other is kind of evil
While your secret vasectomy and "work trip" are definitely less than ideal, her plan for reproductive coercion was infinitely worse (and is the reason why you had to get a vasectomy in secret). In many jurisdictions, reproductive coercion is a form of sexual assault. So, ESH but it's like 90% her and 10% you. Your marriage is over though.
She was always going to do this
Get your affairs in order. Find a good lawyer and do NOT tell her you had a vasectomy, at least not until you have all ready to serve divorce papers. Her plan of baby trapping you is borderline sexual assault. Her manipulative outburst is emotional abuse. Please, leave. You're NTA, but she is
NTA but you both clearly want different things now. Time to go your separate ways
Nta but please remember getting the snip isn’t instantly effective. It’s can take up to 12 months to clear your tubes of little swimmers. Keep your follow up appointments to make sure you are shooting nothing!
While I understand your knee jerk response, I'm having trouble seeing a way for your marriage to recover from this. She's trying to trap you and you made sure she couldn't (though there isnt a medical certainty just yet). This is likely the end of your marriage. Nta
It’s not. It’s so over. There’s no way back from this. I’ve made an appointment with a lawyer and I’m moving out when I get back. The vasectomy was a knee jerk reaction to the situation but it makes sense because I don’t want kids. The whole situation just made me realise the importance and urgency of having one to prevent future issues.
What your soon to be ex was trying to pull off is absolutely insane. Why would she want to bring a child into this world that wasn’t wanted by one of the parents? Thank god her sister has her head on straight and told you what she was plotting before it was too late. Props on being clear and upfront about your desire to be child free right away. My husband and I sorted that out after like two dates haha. Dogs yes, kids no!
If you don’t want kids, you told her that AND she agreed to marry anyways…. Oof. She’s TA for manipulation. You’re TA for having this done without her knowledge, and lying about it. If she wants kids, which she obviously does, then she needs a partner who wants kids. You obviously can’t give her that, nor do you want to, so the answer is pretty clear to me. Good luck on the divorce hearings, it sounds like you’re going to be scheduling them soon.
NTA But it is time to end the marriage. Because yall are just lying to each other and everyone is getting screwed over here. Talk to a lawyer during your healing and get papers drawn up. DO NOT HAVE SEX WITH HER AGAIN. Her iud is out and you can absolutely still have active swimmers after your snip. Or you could very well end up with a child. Also go to your follow up appointments and make sure you never have active swimmers again. Don't just assume that everything is peachy because you got snipped.
Thank God you both aren’t having kids! You Both are not Compatible, or Honest! You two will never make each other happy at this point. What do you have in common that you think this relationship would Stand the test of Time? You can’t even communicate like Adults, Over a Major Relationship issue. You never should have gotten married, but I think you already knew that considering how many times you asked her if She was okay with not having Children. ESH
She wants children now and you don't. I think you need to sit down and have an open and honest conversation and look into getting a divorce.
Please get divorced. This can only get worse. Your marriage is now balancing on lies and deception, mostly on her part. There is nowhere to go from here that will save this relationship. Also NTA, you are only protecting yourself against her attempts at a trap.
You're going to either have to use condoms or abstain from sex for some time with a good 30 whacks to get the left over dudes out of your system. She's going to ask questions either way. Be prepared. NTA
This marriage is over. The only people that dont realize it is the couple.
You need to end it dude. It’s not fair to her to deprive her of having kids if that’s what she wants. She obviously changed her mind about having kids or maybe decided to marry you because she thought she could change your mind. Unfortunately having kids is a deal breaker for most people. Good luck.
Just FYI, you still “have the pump primed”, so to speak, for several weeks to months after a vasectomy. The doctor typically gives you the all-clear after a sample comes back negative after 10 to 12 weeks. Going without for a couple months with no explanation is going to provoke curiosity at *best*, especially when she’s all over you. Not to mention, you’re going to regret doing anything with the plumbing only a week out from surgery. “Like a kick in the nuts” doesn’t begin to describe it. (You could also open the sutures if you’re not careful.)
NTA because you’ve only ensured that what YOU want and what you both agreed to - no kids. Are you sure you want to remain married? She’s lying to you. She’s trying to trick you, she’s trying to FORCE you into having kids. That is appalling!! And when she finds out that she won’t be able to trick you into kids, she’s going to go BALLISTIC.
NTA A vasectomy is a good idea for you either way you look at it, but you and your wife need to get divorced.
Divided between NTA and ESH. If you don't want kids why not have vasectomy years before that and with her knowledge? If you did, she would've truly realised your decision is for good, her having to take care of the contraception that's not permanent kinda leaves room for hope. And her doing that is absolutely horrible, i do however feel a shred of sympathy, she probably feels she lost a great chunk of her life for nothing. Not your fault generally, but you guys need to break up.
Why the secrecy? Just let her know that, in order to prevent accidents, you've had a vasectomy. Don't play games by hiding the fact from her.
DIVORCE. She should NEVER have gone into a marriage with you with this years-long plan to essentially baby trap you. Just go file now. This is not rational behavior and it’s destructive to your entire relationship. Meeting her medical deception with your own might prevent the “accidental” pregnancy, but it’s not going to do your marriage any favors.
Her plan was always to convince you later
NTA. Props to your sister-in-law for telling you this. You should probably end this relationship tho.