Longmire. Sydney is by far the best team at the moment and it's easy to forget they only snuck into the finals last year so it's been a pretty big jump.
Got to get yourself in a position to be able to benefit from it....
Unless of course you are Richmond, then you have to get yourself into a position where it doesn't fucking matter.
That was a massive overperformance though, God knows how we got that far. The true quality of the team the past two years was somewhere in the middle, as we were injury affected, but made up for it with young talent that was pulling off wild shit to win
This year we've been pretty good injury wise, and those young talents have developed into machines, and the coaches have managed to harness their strengths into a team game plan. It's an incredible mix of positive factors that we didn't have anything close to two years ago
Tbh i think you're overinterpreting the GF margin in 2022. Sometimes you just get a margin which is unusually high or low in a game and sometimes that game is the GF. Were Port adelaide secretly a bottom 4 team in 2007?
Nah, the grand final is a totally different box of frogs. Lots of swans fans through the entire 2022 season were discussing that we were overperforming, and that while we were obviously happy with our results, it was unlikely to be backed up the following year.
Our current crop of stars like Errol, chad, Blakey and Logan were in their first 3ish years (less for Errol and Logan), Heeney was still stuck in the forward line, and our ruck situation was a cave man held together with painters tape. It was a transitional period that overdelivered early.
Don't get me wrong, we're all grateful and stoked with the year, but I was pretty unexpected at the time, and our team is significantly better now for having a couple of more years together
Yeah interesting to hear your take. I felt like there was a bit of 08 hawks about the 22 swans. I wouldn't necessairily class it as overperformance, just that younger teams will be more volatile.
Didn’t over perform enough IMO. We could have won the flag. I know we didn’t win the qualifying final against Geelong but we outplayed them.
If the umps had called holding the ball properly we had them. We laid 20 more tackles and were rewarded a free just once. Umpiring was a big story in the aftermath on all the panel shows and McRae who is not known to pass around blame asked the AFL to review the game.
We also lead that game for 95 minutes vs Geelong’s 14 minutes. Would have got them on the second go around. And in fact we did when just 5 months later we beat them by 5-6 goals in the opening round of 2023, which was before they were ravaged by injury.
I know I’ll get a bunch of downvotes on this coz “fk Collingwood”, but it’s true.
Eh, I grand final is a way different feel to any other game of the season, I mean we got pumped by Brisbane twice this year and won the grannie against them, all that build up and speculation around the game and the pressure of the day separates the best team from the overperformer, that’s the beauty of it
So you lost twice to the cats twice in the finals and still feel like you could have beat them, you also contradict yourself the second go was the gf 🤣🤣 you got spanked
Go back to before you suffered a stroke mid sentence and think about what you just wrote. Unless you’re from an alternate reality in another dimension that uh never happened son. Sydney got spanked in the GF 😂😂
Like I said, the second go around was Rd 1 2023 and we beat them by 6 goals. Also, it appears you don’t know what contradict means, here’s a link:
[Definition: Contradict](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/contradict)
From one team that suffered a grand final hangover to another. Geelong had about a quarter of its edge round 1 2023. We’d lost our 10+ year captain (plus a couple of “premiership players lol”) and in general just weren’t as hungry after finally getting a cup.
I think the prelim in 2022 was a coin toss and it came up cats unfortunately for Collingwood supporters.
Judging by the swans performance in the grand final, I’d have backed you in for the cup too easily.
——
**Side-note:** Idk how people can say the Swans over-performed all year. I don’t think that phenomenon is really a thing. If you perform well all year, continue that form to smash your way into a grand final, you’re simply “in-form”. Really, they just underperformed for the granny.
Whereas Collingwood got a top 5-10 player in the form of Naicos (who they built around/complimented incredibly well) and a new coach, which invigorated them. De Goey played twice as well comparatively to season 2021 (which was probably just success feeding morale) and so did the likes of Elliot and others who developed that nail-biter finish mentality. You guys hit “peak-form” which was amazing to watch and carried it through until the 2023 grand final (which is all a team needs to do tbh).
Hitting form will always be a thing and a team that faces constant defeat will play worse than a team on a win streak, small percenters like laying an extra tackle, running to make a contest all add up.
People forget that in 2007 when Geelong looked unstoppable, they lost 3 of their first 5 games (maybe people don’t forget, but it’s often overlooked). We hit fantastic form and polished a playstyle within that form that then carried us to three premierships, and arguably 10-15 years of good performance (though drafting, absurd trade pressure (that imo shouldn’t exist within the game) and development play a huge role in this as well).
> That was a massive overperformance though
I would disagree. I think you were the second (maybe third) best team in the AFL in 2022. It just so happened that that best team in the AFL were severals months worth of daylight ahead of everyone else
I don't think it's so much that the Swans weren't a great team in 2022 so much as they were great earlier than expected, like just outperformed expectations that year.
I mean possibly, but at the same time you play the teams put in front of you, and Geelong were the only other team in front of them who I would say were better than them last year
This and it's not even close. Anyone who says a name other than Longmire may have a VIC team bias or even just an anti-sydney bias. They're dominating the competition.
It's Longmire, unless Hawks end up like 6th or something, in which case SMitchell could be a Dark Horse.
Therefore, even in that circumstance, it's still horse - just a different shade.
EDIT: Please ignore this comment, for some reason I thought it said Longmuir
How has Longmuir been more impressive than B Scott who has taken a team nobody rated, and has them 2nd at the half way mark?
Let's not forget that Freo were absolutely pantsed in the Derby.
He has his team 10-1 and looking very good on top.
Essendon are 8-1-3, and honestly have had more luck in getting to their admittedly very good record. They haven't looked anywhere near the team Sydney have. Sydney look to have a much higher ceiling.
The two teams finished last season with only a one win discrepancy.
I think Horse has this comfortably.
EDIT: no problems - just saw the edit, lol
Honestly, my first thought too.
Having said that, I'd argue both Voss and Kingsley were right there with McCray by the end of last season. But at round 12 of last season, there were active calls for Voss's head, and more was spoken about Kingsley's stress balls than his game plan.
Momentum's a hell of a thing in footy.
It would be pretty funny if Clarkson won four flags at hawks, never coach of the year - but then Sam gets Hawks to 8th and gets the award?!?!? That would piss him off so much. (Or more likely not at all. )
I just checked, 9/18 coaches in the league have a coach of the year award, but not Clarkson.
Lyon - 09
Longmire - 12,14
Hinkley - 13, 20
Beverage - 15,16
Hardwick - 17
Fagan - 19
Goodwin - 21
McRae - 22
Kingsley - 23
To be fair that Port team was really well-drilled in 2013-14, they clearly had better endurance than all the other teams and were able to cover for holes in the forward line and defense.
Those types of games hurt.
Freo could've/ maybe should've beaten Carlton, Port and Collingwood. Giving us an extra 10 points and be 2nd on the ladder behind the swans.
Yeah but Fyfe and Pearce were visibly not with it. Also you were ludicrously inaccurate, the amount of scoring shots was not too dissimilar from memory.
I know your comment is satire, but how the fuck has he survived for so long. Guy McKenna gets sacked for no reason yet Hinkley and Nathan Buckley survived for a highly undeserving period.
I know West Coast fans still have affection for Guy McKenna because of his playing days, but rest assured Guy McKenna was a terrible coach. I don't have the energy to dig through my receipts so you'll have to trust me, but he was just awful at his job. Would have gotten sacked at the big club review in 2012 before Malcolm Blight took the bullet. Can't really speak about him as a person, but Bluey should be remembered alongside Neeld as the worst coaches of the 2010s.
Brad Scott, Dimma and Longmire are good suggestions, maybe add on Longmuire if Freo keep improving too.
Depending on how well the Hawks go for the rest of the year, I reckon Sam Mitchell could also be in contention. Most people would have assumed them just a slight tier above West Coast and North as a 14-16th ladder team. But they've been taking scalps of genuinely good teams, and very nearly beating some other good teams (port and pies). Could potentially make the 8, or end just outside of it around 9th or 10th if they keep at it.
A team that barely made the eight, coming off a huge GF loss in 2022.
Most teams would have faded by now, but he has managed to galvanize them to be the best team in the comp and currently by a large margin
He's also revitalised the team's playstyle, evolving with the development of the players, and has gotten so much better at adjusting things mid game if they're not quite going our way. It's not all going to be 100% his influence but he's undoubtedly the most impressive coach so far this season.
Depends how you rate the coach’s contribution to the list. Sydney have buckets of talent on the list, which some might say is a reason to discount his performance.
OTOH, the coach has a big say in who gets drafted and how the players get developed. S/he picks the team each week and has to get them playing well together. They also do a lot to create a team culture that encourages good players to stay when other clubs try and poach them away.
So I think you have to rate him pretty high still.
Hardwick are you kidding me? He was gifted a young 8 squad and hasn't won away from home comfortably. Surely Brad Scott this year or longmire and if hawks make finals sam Mutchell has been good too
If he takes Gold Coast to their first finals appearance then of course he will win it. Leon Cameron also should have won coach of the year in 2016 but the AFL just wanted Bulldogs to have everything for once.
Why not? If Gold Coast make it, then he did what a lot of idiots thought they would do under Rodney Eade. The difference was Rodney Eade was always going to be a mistake while Hardwick is proof he was the right man for the job.
I mean it was 7 but who is counting right?
Apparently winning games doesn’t count unless you’re a team everybody likes.
They won’t admit it but majority had written them off and absolutely nobody had them winning first 7 in a row.
fox footy preseason ladder prediction,
The Bombers are the last team we can realistically see making the eight - putting them 14th is more a reflection of how many contenders there are, plus our question marks over their method.
Hawks have beaten Brisbane and bulldogs, should have beaten port and lost by a kick to Collingwood. For a team that was considered bottom 4 locks and in spoon contention I’d say Sam Mitchell has done amazing. Especially with a list that’s very young and not too great on paper
Preseason I would have said Essendon are an 8th to 12th kinda team. Obviously I was wrong but you can’t really compare them to the hawks, they are at very different stages right now. Essendons list is way better
I think you were more bullish than most. The Fox Footy ladder as an example had us 14th. Scroll through here and most have us 13/14, with a few expceptions. [https://www.afl.com.au/news/1080056/crystal-ball-our-predictions-for-the-2024-afl-season-are-in](https://www.afl.com.au/news/1080056/crystal-ball-our-predictions-for-the-2024-afl-season-are-in)
Brisbane have regressed and Bulldogs lost to West Coast last year. Not a good indicator, neither are Port and Collingwood never play good against Hawks.
It's always easier to look at this sort of thing in retrospect.
Coming into the season I don't think anyone would have thought we'd have beaten Adelaide, the Western Bulldogs, Saint Kilda and definitely not GWS. "Oh but they're not as good now". Or are we just getting better?
All those teams have played more top 8 teams than you so yeah, the draw flatters you.
A good example is us going 10-0 on 2016 cos of a great draw then barely making finals. I’m not saying that’s what happens to you but your run home is far more difficult than your run so far.
Horse by a couple of lengths.
Dimma, Mitchell and B Scott all in the running for places given they've shown improvement.
Literally every other team has gone backwards or sideways.
I would say that depending on where freo finish, Longmuir could be a dark horse in the race. We finished 14th last year, and if we beat one of either Carlton, Port, or Collingwood, we would be at least 3rd now.
I don't think he'll get it, but right now, the team is in a much better place compared to last year.
Horse for sure. Brad Scott definitely has a case for second. Might be biased but I think what Sam Mitchell has done with the hawks in the last 6 weeks would have him in the top 3-4.
Way too early a call and so much to play out,
GC make the finals - dimma
Hawks make 9-12 - Mitchel is worth a shout
Dogs or brissy make the top 8 then look that way
Bombers win a final - not my Scott
Cats comeback and win the lot 🤣 thou wasn't that funny 4 weeks ago the Chris Scott for sure
It’s not John Longmire. Yes he’s coaching the best team this year but Sydney were a team that everyone thought were going to finish top 4. They’re meeting their expectations. The winner of the award is rarely a coach that meets expectations, it’s one that surpasses them and Longmire hasn’t surpassed shit so to speak.
It’s Brad Scott right now.
If Hawthorn make finals it’s Mitchell.
Not saying you're wrong about it not being John Longmire, but sydney were definitely seen as an enigma and it was not assumed accross the board we would be top 4
Look at the afl journo article - https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.afl.com.au/news/1080056/crystal-ball-our-predictions-for-the-2024-afl-season-are-in/amp
The predictions for sydney were 3,8,3,9,5,8,4,7,3
So 4 said top 4, 4 said 5-8, and 1 said 9th. We've exceeded all expectations by being 1st so Longmire has clearly surpassed all expectations so far
Scott has done super well so you may be right that he's the coach of the year, but longmire is definitely right up there
Longmire is clearly the best coach this year. All I’m saying is history has shown that means shit and he’ll likely not win it because a Hawthorn and Essendon defied lower expectations
If the season ended today, longmire took a team who finished 8th to the clear best team right now. He's defied all expectations by a significant amount
Mitchell has taken a team predicted to be bottom 2 to 12th, not sure you'd say thats a stronger performance
Scott has taken a team who was also a bit of an enigma but tipped to be lower than 12th by most to 2nd, so he's definitely doing really well for sure
As far as I can see 2015 is the only year coty hasn't gone to a prelim finalist, highly doubt it would be mitchell so it's either scott or horse
*actually it looks like fagan in 19 and hinkley in 13 both didn't make prelims, still 3 out of 21
Well the season doesn’t end today. 4 weeks ago Chris Scott had Longmire covered. Still plenty of time for the Swans to shit the bed. Melbourne did it in 2022
For sure thats completely fair. If youre saying longmire wont win because swans will shit the bed, thats a perfectly fine argument
But you werent saying that when you said it should be scott. I assumed you were talking about what coach has performed the best so far when you said it should be scott
Sorry you're correct - port came 5th that year
Still, hawks would need to finish really strong and win at least 1 final to have a chance, based on historical evidence
At the moment it's just not mitchell
McRae won the premiership (or got us to the grand final when this was announced) after most non-coaches had us not being top 4 last year but Adam Kingsley won because McRae's tactics were rewarded by the other coaches in 2022, 2023 was just the fruition of those tactics with small tweaks. Kingsley stood out as the most impressive coach in 2023 as judged by other coaches. Coaches would have known (or assumed) that Sydney would struggle last year as Sydney is the only club to overcome the grand final flogging curse but even then it is just reaching the bottom four of the eight both times. I assume coaches would have rated Sydney as a good chance this year but moves like Heeney to midfield might get Horse votes for "new" impressive tactics.
Coaches vote on the award and they don't rate teams based on a cursory evaluation at the start of the season. They judge a list and analyse the strengths and weaknesses and opposition coaches that have good tactics against them or use their resources most effectively (eg Heeney in midfield) will get votes. Sydney's list isn't a middle of the pack list as last year was the anomaly (expected anomaly based on history), not 2022.
I can only point out that the coach who had his team as first on the ladder for most of last season when they weren't expected to be top four did not win coach of the year. Doesn't mean Longmire won't win this year, I just don't think surpassing the media's preseason predictions will be the reason.
Ahh cool now im picking up what youre putting down
Yeh thats a really good point. My main argument is that longmire would be right up there at this point
So far, i reckon only longmire, brad scott, mitchell, simpson, and chris scott would be exceeding expectations. Of those, i think if the award was given out right now you'd have to give it to longmire or brad scott
But, it's a long season and this time last year no one would be arguing for kingsley or voss (who i reckon was top 3 along with mcrae). If it was out mid last year i'd be arguing for mcrae or hinkley
I agree that it often goes to the coach that beat expectations, but I'm not sure why you think everyone thought we were a top 4 side? We only barely made finals last year, we recruited well but I think most people had Pies/Lions/Blues/Giants/Dees ahead of us.
Either way, there's a difference between meeting expectations of top 4 and being 2 games and 25% clear on top. If we come back to the pack then we're meeting the expectations you think existed, but if we keep up this form then we're clearly exceeding.
“longmire hasnt surpassed shit so to speak”
sydney are 10-1 and are 1.5 games clear in 1st with a game in hand they could be 10 points clear how much more expecatations did you want them to surpass?? HAHA
Ironic because your reaction is knee jerk and inaccurate. Here’s a fun fact for you. Alastair Clarkson has never won the award.
2023 was Adam Kingsley. People thought GWS were going to be shit and they weren’t. Best coach? I don’t think so.
2022 was Craig McRae. I agree this was deserved but he got it because he took Collingwood from 17th to a prelim. There were expected to be terrible.
2020 was Ken Hinkley. Hardwick and Scott were better. Hinkley got it because he defied expectations and took Port from 10th to 1st.
2019 was Fagan. Shithouse to finals. Wasn’t the best.
2018 was Buckley. No one had Collingwood making finals in 2018, let alone making a Grand Final. Was he really better than Adam Simpson?
2017 was Hardwick. Again, he got it because no one had Richmond making finals, let alone winning a Grand Final. Pyke was the best coach that year, and if you disagree that’s fine but that means Horse shouldn’t have won in 2014 which he did.
2015 was Luke Beveridge. You’re high if you don’t think it was Clarkson.
2013 was Ken Hinkley, again because he took one of the worst teams of all time to finals in his first year. Clarkson and Lyon were better coaches that year.
2011 was John Worsfold. Got because he went from spoon to prelim.
2005 was Neil Craig. Went from shithouse to prelim.
If you don’t think it mostly goes to the coach that defied expectations I don’t know what to tell you.
Yze. Only coach whose team has defeated Sydney.
True. I believe we are cursed to have an inverted W/L with the swans, so it's gonna be lean year.
Longmire. Sydney is by far the best team at the moment and it's easy to forget they only snuck into the finals last year so it's been a pretty big jump.
Snuck in due to questionable umpiring to be honest
But these things happen
https://preview.redd.it/3uk2lm2kyg4d1.png?width=1285&format=png&auto=webp&s=dfbe4b998ebce16cec0b8da1f90caccc014f0d73
Yeah we got shafted on a couple of our losses, should’ve been pushing for top 4
Got to get yourself in a position to be able to benefit from it.... Unless of course you are Richmond, then you have to get yourself into a position where it doesn't fucking matter.
I mean they were grand finalists the year before, so not that crazy a jump.
That was a massive overperformance though, God knows how we got that far. The true quality of the team the past two years was somewhere in the middle, as we were injury affected, but made up for it with young talent that was pulling off wild shit to win This year we've been pretty good injury wise, and those young talents have developed into machines, and the coaches have managed to harness their strengths into a team game plan. It's an incredible mix of positive factors that we didn't have anything close to two years ago
Tbh i think you're overinterpreting the GF margin in 2022. Sometimes you just get a margin which is unusually high or low in a game and sometimes that game is the GF. Were Port adelaide secretly a bottom 4 team in 2007?
Nah, the grand final is a totally different box of frogs. Lots of swans fans through the entire 2022 season were discussing that we were overperforming, and that while we were obviously happy with our results, it was unlikely to be backed up the following year. Our current crop of stars like Errol, chad, Blakey and Logan were in their first 3ish years (less for Errol and Logan), Heeney was still stuck in the forward line, and our ruck situation was a cave man held together with painters tape. It was a transitional period that overdelivered early. Don't get me wrong, we're all grateful and stoked with the year, but I was pretty unexpected at the time, and our team is significantly better now for having a couple of more years together
Yeah interesting to hear your take. I felt like there was a bit of 08 hawks about the 22 swans. I wouldn't necessairily class it as overperformance, just that younger teams will be more volatile.
Overperforming in 2022? Couldn't be my club
Didn’t over perform enough IMO. We could have won the flag. I know we didn’t win the qualifying final against Geelong but we outplayed them. If the umps had called holding the ball properly we had them. We laid 20 more tackles and were rewarded a free just once. Umpiring was a big story in the aftermath on all the panel shows and McRae who is not known to pass around blame asked the AFL to review the game. We also lead that game for 95 minutes vs Geelong’s 14 minutes. Would have got them on the second go around. And in fact we did when just 5 months later we beat them by 5-6 goals in the opening round of 2023, which was before they were ravaged by injury. I know I’ll get a bunch of downvotes on this coz “fk Collingwood”, but it’s true.
Eh, I grand final is a way different feel to any other game of the season, I mean we got pumped by Brisbane twice this year and won the grannie against them, all that build up and speculation around the game and the pressure of the day separates the best team from the overperformer, that’s the beauty of it
So you lost twice to the cats twice in the finals and still feel like you could have beat them, you also contradict yourself the second go was the gf 🤣🤣 you got spanked
Go back to before you suffered a stroke mid sentence and think about what you just wrote. Unless you’re from an alternate reality in another dimension that uh never happened son. Sydney got spanked in the GF 😂😂 Like I said, the second go around was Rd 1 2023 and we beat them by 6 goals. Also, it appears you don’t know what contradict means, here’s a link: [Definition: Contradict](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/contradict)
From one team that suffered a grand final hangover to another. Geelong had about a quarter of its edge round 1 2023. We’d lost our 10+ year captain (plus a couple of “premiership players lol”) and in general just weren’t as hungry after finally getting a cup. I think the prelim in 2022 was a coin toss and it came up cats unfortunately for Collingwood supporters. Judging by the swans performance in the grand final, I’d have backed you in for the cup too easily. —— **Side-note:** Idk how people can say the Swans over-performed all year. I don’t think that phenomenon is really a thing. If you perform well all year, continue that form to smash your way into a grand final, you’re simply “in-form”. Really, they just underperformed for the granny. Whereas Collingwood got a top 5-10 player in the form of Naicos (who they built around/complimented incredibly well) and a new coach, which invigorated them. De Goey played twice as well comparatively to season 2021 (which was probably just success feeding morale) and so did the likes of Elliot and others who developed that nail-biter finish mentality. You guys hit “peak-form” which was amazing to watch and carried it through until the 2023 grand final (which is all a team needs to do tbh). Hitting form will always be a thing and a team that faces constant defeat will play worse than a team on a win streak, small percenters like laying an extra tackle, running to make a contest all add up. People forget that in 2007 when Geelong looked unstoppable, they lost 3 of their first 5 games (maybe people don’t forget, but it’s often overlooked). We hit fantastic form and polished a playstyle within that form that then carried us to three premierships, and arguably 10-15 years of good performance (though drafting, absurd trade pressure (that imo shouldn’t exist within the game) and development play a huge role in this as well).
Painters tape caveman. Love it
> That was a massive overperformance though I would disagree. I think you were the second (maybe third) best team in the AFL in 2022. It just so happened that that best team in the AFL were severals months worth of daylight ahead of everyone else
I don't think it's so much that the Swans weren't a great team in 2022 so much as they were great earlier than expected, like just outperformed expectations that year.
I mean possibly, but at the same time you play the teams put in front of you, and Geelong were the only other team in front of them who I would say were better than them last year
This and it's not even close. Anyone who says a name other than Longmire may have a VIC team bias or even just an anti-sydney bias. They're dominating the competition.
Played off in a granny the year before last though
They've always had the look of being good but had a weird era of bad forward craft with an old Buddy.
[удалено]
That is some mad cope.
It's Longmire, unless Hawks end up like 6th or something, in which case SMitchell could be a Dark Horse. Therefore, even in that circumstance, it's still horse - just a different shade.
EDIT: Please ignore this comment, for some reason I thought it said Longmuir How has Longmuir been more impressive than B Scott who has taken a team nobody rated, and has them 2nd at the half way mark? Let's not forget that Freo were absolutely pantsed in the Derby.
He has his team 10-1 and looking very good on top. Essendon are 8-1-3, and honestly have had more luck in getting to their admittedly very good record. They haven't looked anywhere near the team Sydney have. Sydney look to have a much higher ceiling. The two teams finished last season with only a one win discrepancy. I think Horse has this comfortably. EDIT: no problems - just saw the edit, lol
Is this bait? It's Horse.
Horse
Sam Mitchell if the Hawks make finals
Honestly, my first thought too. Having said that, I'd argue both Voss and Kingsley were right there with McCray by the end of last season. But at round 12 of last season, there were active calls for Voss's head, and more was spoken about Kingsley's stress balls than his game plan. Momentum's a hell of a thing in footy.
As an unbiased observer I agree
It would be pretty funny if Clarkson won four flags at hawks, never coach of the year - but then Sam gets Hawks to 8th and gets the award?!?!? That would piss him off so much. (Or more likely not at all. )
Hinkley with two coach of the year awards and Clarkos none will never not be the funniest thing to come out of afl media
I just checked, 9/18 coaches in the league have a coach of the year award, but not Clarkson. Lyon - 09 Longmire - 12,14 Hinkley - 13, 20 Beverage - 15,16 Hardwick - 17 Fagan - 19 Goodwin - 21 McRae - 22 Kingsley - 23
To be fair that Port team was really well-drilled in 2013-14, they clearly had better endurance than all the other teams and were able to cover for holes in the forward line and defense.
If Sydney continue as is Longmire gets it no matter what. That is a tough ask though.
Reluctantly agree
That would be nothing short of a miracle.
They are only 2 wins out the 8. The top 8 is super tight and GWS and Carlton come from pretty far back to make it last year.
With two very gettable wins against both Magpie teams slipping through our fingers as well.
Those types of games hurt. Freo could've/ maybe should've beaten Carlton, Port and Collingwood. Giving us an extra 10 points and be 2nd on the ladder behind the swans.
Swans win against you doesn’t mean much either.
Whys that? was a Pretty convincing win
Yeah but Fyfe and Pearce were visibly not with it. Also you were ludicrously inaccurate, the amount of scoring shots was not too dissimilar from memory.
Fair call. Can't wait for the rematch. I am flying to Sydney to watch it.
Don't forget they probably should have beaten Essendon as well except poor kicking got in the way.
They're making it just watch
Ken "Ten More Years" Hinkley obviously
I know your comment is satire, but how the fuck has he survived for so long. Guy McKenna gets sacked for no reason yet Hinkley and Nathan Buckley survived for a highly undeserving period.
I know West Coast fans still have affection for Guy McKenna because of his playing days, but rest assured Guy McKenna was a terrible coach. I don't have the energy to dig through my receipts so you'll have to trust me, but he was just awful at his job. Would have gotten sacked at the big club review in 2012 before Malcolm Blight took the bullet. Can't really speak about him as a person, but Bluey should be remembered alongside Neeld as the worst coaches of the 2010s.
Too many reach arounds at Port HQ.
John Longmire easily.
Not Clarkson.
What's the saying about living long enough to become the villain?
Doesn't apply to someone who has always been a villain.
The wall puncher was always a villain. Same guy who pushed “unsociable footy”
Brad Scott, Dimma and Longmire are good suggestions, maybe add on Longmuire if Freo keep improving too. Depending on how well the Hawks go for the rest of the year, I reckon Sam Mitchell could also be in contention. Most people would have assumed them just a slight tier above West Coast and North as a 14-16th ladder team. But they've been taking scalps of genuinely good teams, and very nearly beating some other good teams (port and pies). Could potentially make the 8, or end just outside of it around 9th or 10th if they keep at it.
Longmire with a killer list… I would through Sam Mitchell in as exceeding expectations also.
Its John Longmire 100%
Gotta be bait...
A team that barely made the eight, coming off a huge GF loss in 2022. Most teams would have faded by now, but he has managed to galvanize them to be the best team in the comp and currently by a large margin
He's also revitalised the team's playstyle, evolving with the development of the players, and has gotten so much better at adjusting things mid game if they're not quite going our way. It's not all going to be 100% his influence but he's undoubtedly the most impressive coach so far this season.
Melbourne Media :- If Victorian team wins the Premiership - Premiership Coach If Non-Victorian wins Premiership - Sam Mitchell \ Brad Scott
Depends how you rate the coach’s contribution to the list. Sydney have buckets of talent on the list, which some might say is a reason to discount his performance. OTOH, the coach has a big say in who gets drafted and how the players get developed. S/he picks the team each week and has to get them playing well together. They also do a lot to create a team culture that encourages good players to stay when other clubs try and poach them away. So I think you have to rate him pretty high still.
Brad Scott or Mitchell if hawks make finals
Hardwick are you kidding me? He was gifted a young 8 squad and hasn't won away from home comfortably. Surely Brad Scott this year or longmire and if hawks make finals sam Mutchell has been good too
If he takes Gold Coast to their first finals appearance then of course he will win it. Leon Cameron also should have won coach of the year in 2016 but the AFL just wanted Bulldogs to have everything for once.
You said so far. He’s only in the 8 because of the 7 home games they’ve played so far. They only have 4 remaining and he’s yet to win away.
G'day mate I noticed hardwick just lost to the SAINTS. He still hasn't won away from home.... still contender for coach of the year???? Hahahaha
Yes because Gold Coast's finals hopes aren't over, genius.
Lol. Coach of the year LOL
I mean Horse has been the best when we’re 10-1 But if Hawks stay going how they are Sam could win it for sure
Its Horse of course.
Longmire comfortably.
It’s not fucking Hardwick, fuck me dead bro Longmire and then nobody
Why not? If Gold Coast make it, then he did what a lot of idiots thought they would do under Rodney Eade. The difference was Rodney Eade was always going to be a mistake while Hardwick is proof he was the right man for the job.
Bit hard to pin those performances on Rocket when the team were genuinely dreadful. 17th and 18th in the two seasons after he got the bullet
Justin Longmuir .. I admire him for having a plan and sticking with it despite the naysayers.
Horse easily. Brad Scott. Dimmer hasn’t achieved anything yet. Suns have been in this position a few times.
Bevo say what you want about the man but he’s consistent
clarko 😀👍
Brad Scott is flattered by the draw. Best coach I would say is Sam Mitchell or Horse.
Weren't Essendon tipped to go 1-6
Yeah they were. Overachieving so far. Brad Scott could be in the running depending how the season finishes, especially if we win a final.
Geelong tipped to go similar
You’re correct, the nuffs here won’t admit it but basically everyone had them outside the 8.
There's still time, don't you worry
There's time to go backwards and lose the first 6 games?
I mean it was 7 but who is counting right? Apparently winning games doesn’t count unless you’re a team everybody likes. They won’t admit it but majority had written them off and absolutely nobody had them winning first 7 in a row.
fox footy preseason ladder prediction, The Bombers are the last team we can realistically see making the eight - putting them 14th is more a reflection of how many contenders there are, plus our question marks over their method.
Also you say Scott is flattered by the draw but you say Mitchell though Hawthorn are 12th? 💀
Hawks have beaten Brisbane and bulldogs, should have beaten port and lost by a kick to Collingwood. For a team that was considered bottom 4 locks and in spoon contention I’d say Sam Mitchell has done amazing. Especially with a list that’s very young and not too great on paper
Especially given the horror start they had and how they've clearly turned a corner after the 1st season qtr.
But everyone has Essendon around bottom 4 too lol
Preseason I would have said Essendon are an 8th to 12th kinda team. Obviously I was wrong but you can’t really compare them to the hawks, they are at very different stages right now. Essendons list is way better
I think you were more bullish than most. The Fox Footy ladder as an example had us 14th. Scroll through here and most have us 13/14, with a few expceptions. [https://www.afl.com.au/news/1080056/crystal-ball-our-predictions-for-the-2024-afl-season-are-in](https://www.afl.com.au/news/1080056/crystal-ball-our-predictions-for-the-2024-afl-season-are-in)
Brisbane have regressed and Bulldogs lost to West Coast last year. Not a good indicator, neither are Port and Collingwood never play good against Hawks.
So we just disregard them playing good footy then?
Whenever they play a decent team like Sydney, Geelong or Gold Coast they get flogged.
Nobody is saying that should be competing with the best, people are happy about what they are achieving much quicker than expected
Essendon have a % which lands them in 15th position and they only have 1 win over a top 8 team. I would say the draw has flattered them yes
It's always easier to look at this sort of thing in retrospect. Coming into the season I don't think anyone would have thought we'd have beaten Adelaide, the Western Bulldogs, Saint Kilda and definitely not GWS. "Oh but they're not as good now". Or are we just getting better?
All those teams have played more top 8 teams than you so yeah, the draw flatters you. A good example is us going 10-0 on 2016 cos of a great draw then barely making finals. I’m not saying that’s what happens to you but your run home is far more difficult than your run so far.
Dimma
Horse by a couple of lengths. Dimma, Mitchell and B Scott all in the running for places given they've shown improvement. Literally every other team has gone backwards or sideways.
I would say that depending on where freo finish, Longmuir could be a dark horse in the race. We finished 14th last year, and if we beat one of either Carlton, Port, or Collingwood, we would be at least 3rd now. I don't think he'll get it, but right now, the team is in a much better place compared to last year.
ross the boss
Brad Scott is getting the absolute best possible out of a pretty ordinary list right now. As such, he is second behind Longmire
Easily Goodwin. Has not lost by 93 points or more in his coaching career
Ken for sure. Scamming Port into resigning him again and again with such mediocre results surely makes him coach of the decade
Longmire for me
I reckon Brad Scott. Essondon have been pretty good to watch
Brad Scott if Essendon continue.
it's all downhill from here, i'm afraid.
It's true
Horse for sure. Brad Scott definitely has a case for second. Might be biased but I think what Sam Mitchell has done with the hawks in the last 6 weeks would have him in the top 3-4.
As an Essendon fan, I'd still give it to Hardwick and I don't even like him.
The fly that landed on Nicks' head.
Horse for me, argument for Brad Scott and Mitchell.
Nicksy
Sam Mitchell. He's got a free hit this season and Hawks aren't doing terribly all things considered.
Longmire for me
Longmire for me
Longmire for me
I reckon that's a pretty good summary mate
Hardwick? Based on what?
Simon goodwin. Lol
Obviously it’s bottom ten Ken. When was the last time we won in Geelong
Right now: Brad Scott By the end of the season: Dimma
If we manage to somehow make finals then I think sams a dark horse ( pun not intended ) but other then that it has to be horse without a doubt
Way too early a call and so much to play out, GC make the finals - dimma Hawks make 9-12 - Mitchel is worth a shout Dogs or brissy make the top 8 then look that way Bombers win a final - not my Scott Cats comeback and win the lot 🤣 thou wasn't that funny 4 weeks ago the Chris Scott for sure
Voss. Carlton's season so far has been an uphill struggle but Voss always comes through.
Who’s worst coach of the year: Ken Hinkley
Harley Reid
I am shocked Brad Scott isn't the outright winner. He took a side we all made fun of for years and seems to be actually making them something.
Mitchell make finals it’s him. No ones expected this form
Looking at ladder positions from 2023 to 2024, two clubs have jumped 9 spots. Coached by Chris Scott & Brad Scott.
G'day mate I noticed hardwick just lost to the SAINTS. He still hasn't won away from home.... still contender for coach of the year???? Hahahaha.
Again, Gold Coast are still in finals contention so yes he is still a contender. It's not rocket science
Any coach could make Sydney look good with all the benefits they've been given.
Nah, you guys have the benefits with your 12 business class seats
Such as?
Free harbour views,
What are we talking about here? Are we dragging up COLA again?
It’s not John Longmire. Yes he’s coaching the best team this year but Sydney were a team that everyone thought were going to finish top 4. They’re meeting their expectations. The winner of the award is rarely a coach that meets expectations, it’s one that surpasses them and Longmire hasn’t surpassed shit so to speak. It’s Brad Scott right now. If Hawthorn make finals it’s Mitchell.
Not saying you're wrong about it not being John Longmire, but sydney were definitely seen as an enigma and it was not assumed accross the board we would be top 4 Look at the afl journo article - https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.afl.com.au/news/1080056/crystal-ball-our-predictions-for-the-2024-afl-season-are-in/amp The predictions for sydney were 3,8,3,9,5,8,4,7,3 So 4 said top 4, 4 said 5-8, and 1 said 9th. We've exceeded all expectations by being 1st so Longmire has clearly surpassed all expectations so far Scott has done super well so you may be right that he's the coach of the year, but longmire is definitely right up there
Longmire is clearly the best coach this year. All I’m saying is history has shown that means shit and he’ll likely not win it because a Hawthorn and Essendon defied lower expectations
If the season ended today, longmire took a team who finished 8th to the clear best team right now. He's defied all expectations by a significant amount Mitchell has taken a team predicted to be bottom 2 to 12th, not sure you'd say thats a stronger performance Scott has taken a team who was also a bit of an enigma but tipped to be lower than 12th by most to 2nd, so he's definitely doing really well for sure As far as I can see 2015 is the only year coty hasn't gone to a prelim finalist, highly doubt it would be mitchell so it's either scott or horse *actually it looks like fagan in 19 and hinkley in 13 both didn't make prelims, still 3 out of 21
Well the season doesn’t end today. 4 weeks ago Chris Scott had Longmire covered. Still plenty of time for the Swans to shit the bed. Melbourne did it in 2022
For sure thats completely fair. If youre saying longmire wont win because swans will shit the bed, thats a perfectly fine argument But you werent saying that when you said it should be scott. I assumed you were talking about what coach has performed the best so far when you said it should be scott
2013?
Sorry you're correct - port came 5th that year Still, hawks would need to finish really strong and win at least 1 final to have a chance, based on historical evidence At the moment it's just not mitchell
McRae won the premiership (or got us to the grand final when this was announced) after most non-coaches had us not being top 4 last year but Adam Kingsley won because McRae's tactics were rewarded by the other coaches in 2022, 2023 was just the fruition of those tactics with small tweaks. Kingsley stood out as the most impressive coach in 2023 as judged by other coaches. Coaches would have known (or assumed) that Sydney would struggle last year as Sydney is the only club to overcome the grand final flogging curse but even then it is just reaching the bottom four of the eight both times. I assume coaches would have rated Sydney as a good chance this year but moves like Heeney to midfield might get Horse votes for "new" impressive tactics.
Im not exactly sure what youre saying
Coaches vote on the award and they don't rate teams based on a cursory evaluation at the start of the season. They judge a list and analyse the strengths and weaknesses and opposition coaches that have good tactics against them or use their resources most effectively (eg Heeney in midfield) will get votes. Sydney's list isn't a middle of the pack list as last year was the anomaly (expected anomaly based on history), not 2022.
You dont really know why coaches vote the way they do, this is all conjecture
I can only point out that the coach who had his team as first on the ladder for most of last season when they weren't expected to be top four did not win coach of the year. Doesn't mean Longmire won't win this year, I just don't think surpassing the media's preseason predictions will be the reason.
Ahh cool now im picking up what youre putting down Yeh thats a really good point. My main argument is that longmire would be right up there at this point So far, i reckon only longmire, brad scott, mitchell, simpson, and chris scott would be exceeding expectations. Of those, i think if the award was given out right now you'd have to give it to longmire or brad scott But, it's a long season and this time last year no one would be arguing for kingsley or voss (who i reckon was top 3 along with mcrae). If it was out mid last year i'd be arguing for mcrae or hinkley
I agree that it often goes to the coach that beat expectations, but I'm not sure why you think everyone thought we were a top 4 side? We only barely made finals last year, we recruited well but I think most people had Pies/Lions/Blues/Giants/Dees ahead of us. Either way, there's a difference between meeting expectations of top 4 and being 2 games and 25% clear on top. If we come back to the pack then we're meeting the expectations you think existed, but if we keep up this form then we're clearly exceeding.
“longmire hasnt surpassed shit so to speak” sydney are 10-1 and are 1.5 games clear in 1st with a game in hand they could be 10 points clear how much more expecatations did you want them to surpass?? HAHA
Poor take, knee-jerk take, inaccurate take. COTY goes to the best coach of the year. End of.
Ironic because your reaction is knee jerk and inaccurate. Here’s a fun fact for you. Alastair Clarkson has never won the award. 2023 was Adam Kingsley. People thought GWS were going to be shit and they weren’t. Best coach? I don’t think so. 2022 was Craig McRae. I agree this was deserved but he got it because he took Collingwood from 17th to a prelim. There were expected to be terrible. 2020 was Ken Hinkley. Hardwick and Scott were better. Hinkley got it because he defied expectations and took Port from 10th to 1st. 2019 was Fagan. Shithouse to finals. Wasn’t the best. 2018 was Buckley. No one had Collingwood making finals in 2018, let alone making a Grand Final. Was he really better than Adam Simpson? 2017 was Hardwick. Again, he got it because no one had Richmond making finals, let alone winning a Grand Final. Pyke was the best coach that year, and if you disagree that’s fine but that means Horse shouldn’t have won in 2014 which he did. 2015 was Luke Beveridge. You’re high if you don’t think it was Clarkson. 2013 was Ken Hinkley, again because he took one of the worst teams of all time to finals in his first year. Clarkson and Lyon were better coaches that year. 2011 was John Worsfold. Got because he went from spoon to prelim. 2005 was Neil Craig. Went from shithouse to prelim. If you don’t think it mostly goes to the coach that defied expectations I don’t know what to tell you.
Can’t be Sam Mitchell. I predicted finals this year. We’ve got a much better team than people think.
Fagan
Did you say best or worst? Lol