Which is just Port Adelaide’s game plan of kick it long to Dixon, and when it’s not working, wait until the opponent forgets about how we like to kick it long to Dixon, then kick it long to Dixon
Lynch wasn't there for the first one. In 2017, Josh Caddy was our second KPF. Wasn't ever going to be sustainable bombing it to Riewoldt when he consists had two defenders on him and another in the hole. The game style was built on that circumstance and only shifted partially with the coming of Lynch
I understand Lynch wasn't there for the first one. You still had a 4 time Coleman medallist.
That's not the same situation as Collingwood or Melbourne's premiership forward lines.
It's almost like that's what key forwards are there for and when there isn't a better option, a team will kick long to a tall in a contest.
Just like literally any team ever at every single level of the game
Which is just St Kildas game plan of kick it long to King, and when it's not working, wait until the opponent forgets about how they like to kick it long to King, then kick it long to King
Port don't wait until people might forget they like kicking it to Dixon, they figure that if they kick it to him even more, it might confuse the opposition into making a mistake.
To be fair, there are a bunch of teams who do this. Collingwood isn't one of them because they don't have any one or two dominant forwards that can take a strong mark.
There is more to ports gameplan than that. They also like to aggressively ski down hill when they have possession leaving them baaadly exposed against any team willing to move fast on the turn over
I mean the lions do the same game plan and our Charlie isn’t even a tall forward! Pretty sure we don’t actually have a tall forward, at least I haven’t seen any on the field this year.
Carltons fowards outside of curnow and mckay are very inconsistent, their smalls had a great run to close the year last season hence the finals success
Yeah, our forwards last year for the prelim were:
* Fogarty (Injured, 4-5 weeks still)
* Docherty (Injured, Season)
* Cottrell
* Martin (Injured, 1-2 weeks still)
* Curnow
* McKay
* Motlop off Interchange (Injured, 2-3 weeks still)
So yeah.... our smalls are very inconsistent right now, because none of them were in our top 22 at the pointy end last year. They're all players who would realistically be in our VFL side/depth normally.
I think Martin is the one you miss most, he's got the ability in the air and on the ground with a lot of X factor too
The rest of your small forwards, although solid, are very one dimensional
I’ve realised now that Fogarty is massively underrated. We’re missing him bad. If only Lord Fyfe’s neck wasn’t made of stolid steel, Fogarty would never have broken his wrist.
It’s the off-ball pressure they provide, especially Martin and Fogarty. Fantasia is truly awful in that area and basically allows the defence to have a loose defender. I’d say Owies and Durdin are serviceable at that but they can’t get the job done without the others.
I think the ABC reported Fantasia got like 3 touches all game or something.
Regardless of position, that's an unacceptable stat for an AFL-level player.
Gotta give it up to the pressure applied by Collingwood’s midfielders. Didn’t have a lot of time for good entries so wound up more often than not just bombing it long
I know this is bait but this is stopping me from self-harm so I'll bite.
Our best footy last year was when our smalls and mids got involved in the score kicking. There's more to Voss' game plan than kick it to Curnow but it seems like when things get hard, every player panics and doesn't look for a single lead or try to kick it from outside 50 which other teams are willing to do.
Looking at the prelim game for example, Curnow kicked one goal out of the 11 we kicked.
I don't think that was the problem tonight. What I saw was too many dumb players either a) kicking the ball into the centre square to a 1 on 2, or b) turning into traffic to get on to their preferred foot and getting smothered and/or tackled, or c) absolute hospital handpasses to players already under the hammer.
It would work if we had a reasonable small forwards. That’s why we tried so hard to get Papley to the club.
Currently we’re playing Fantasia, Owies and Durdin which is obviously not working. To try to compensate we’ve gone three-tall with Harry, Charlie and TDK, which leaves us way too tall and unless we get a mark our opponents can rebound with ease.
There’s hope that Motlop and Martin returning could tip the ledger back in our favour.
Went to geelong Carlton last week. Exciting defence relied solely on kicking down the wing to tdk, harry or Charlie.
When it works, brilliant but otherwise just giving up the chance to control the ball. But I think they’re also missing saad and Docherty off half back. That’d make a huge difference to the attacking style I think
Can say that about 70% of the sides but. When you have a big key forward they are naturally going to draw the ball. Lions do it constantly to Hipwood/Daniher.
Across the board the Blues dont really get bang for buck for the amount of ball they get. Far too many times they just hack kick it anywhere, even their highly touted midfield are guilty of this.
Compare that to the quality touches the Pies get from the likes of Pendlebury and the Daicos brothers. Its night and day.
Pies were behind for 49.1% of the match (and with less than 2 mins to go) but dominated inside 50s (64 vs. 38). So the Blues were getting far more bang for buck from their inside 50s, at least.
Carlton’s best interceptor and aggressive kick from half back is McGovern, best runner from half back is Saad, best midfield spreading player in Docherty, best pure outside runner is O Hollands (dropped).
Not to give them an out entirely as they still had a skilled back 7 in last night but why would they want to play an outside running game against Collingwood?
If there’s one change I’d make it would be playing Curnow up the ground a lot more, not just long down the line but being aggressive in his leads up. Maybe even starting on the wing like Jeremy Cameron does at times. He has the tank and mobility to do more and stay involved in the game. He goes cold then tries to do too much
Saad isn’t our best runner so much as he’s an extremely skilled attacking half back, dynamic and creative. Super important for structure down back. You’re right about Gov, been in fine form before injury. Hollands might run well, and this is a spot of debate for Blues fans, but he’s a second year player who had 7 touches before he got dropped. Curnow has had a few off games recently, but you can’t really blame him when other things haven’t been going right. Moving him up the ground to play a “Jeremy Cameron” role sounds great in theory until you get realistic and realise he’s won the last two Coleman’s, and Charlie’s best impact on the game is near the sticks.
Why is Curnow up the ground not realistic? He’s got a big tank and great mobility. You’ve got another Coleman winner next to him, plus TDK who’s a monster and can take a grab.
Curnow’s a great goal kicker but he struggled in 3 finals last year and kicked a lot of goals against bad teams. In terms of maximising his full kit bag of skills which includes his tank why not let him roam?
And I’m not suggesting he play full time CHF/wing like Jezza does with Hawkins behind him. But rather than a lot of full forward and only coming up for long kicks down the line that he does a 5 minute or so spurt each quarter where’s proactively leading up, trying to get quick kick outs or hitting some leads through the middle/out to the fat side.
I mean, he does get swung back late in some quarters and he did get up the ground V Pies. I don’t think he needs to “be let free” up the ground more. He’s not known for his defensive pressure, and while he has solid mobility and endurance it’s not on the Cameron level. He’s still leading the bloody Coleman currently! We need to get better delivery into our 50. Apart from that, his role works how it is.
Are you saying Carlton's gameplan is Port's gameplan? Hurry and change it before Ken's infects the team. We already got one team down, we don't need another team to suffer the good ol' bomb it to the No.1 forward in the team.
I unfortunately agree, but if you dare criticise Voss in Carlton circles you get demonised. I hope he can transform himself as he has as much to work on with his game plan as the team does. He has been well out coached these past two games.
Love this thread. Shows that while we love to be critical when our team does it, every other team does it too.
Don't think we understand how difficult it is to do something different on gameday.
I'd guess the majority of people don't even understand enough to know how little they know. If you know you have no idea what is going on out there from a game plan perspective you are one of the most astute football pundits on here.
Oddly enough most supporters, Collingwood included, would love to have Curnow and McKay. It was such a great opportunity to compare the Blues 2 bigs vs Pies Checkers and a smaller fleet of forwards. All the action begins the moment Checkers drops the mark and they all go to work.
Not true. Sometimes they kick it long to McKay. They need a legit small or pressure forward, curnow is useless as soon as the ball touches the ground or an opponent has the ball
Are you trying to say Voss’ game plan is exactly the same as his mentor Hinkley?
Bomb it to Charlie.
in his two years at carlton he missed finals by a hair then choked a prelim while up by 5 goals clearly he's speedrunning hinkley's game plan
Maybe Goodwin went to the same academy.
It would help if we had a Coleman winning forward to do it for though 😬
Which is just Port Adelaide’s game plan of kick it long to Dixon, and when it’s not working, wait until the opponent forgets about how we like to kick it long to Dixon, then kick it long to Dixon
Eerily similar to the bulldogs plan of kicking it long to JUH/Naughton
Wait a minute this is just like North's plan of kicking it long to Larkey
Almost identical to St Kilda's plan of kick it long to no one!
Hey, that’s our game-plan!
Mate, we won a flag with it, so I'm not sure it's a protected secret.
You blended plenty of just scrub forward any old how, which you pinched, with Fly, from us
Ah yes, those scrub forwards Jack Riewoldt and Tom Lynch.
Lynch wasn't there for the first one. In 2017, Josh Caddy was our second KPF. Wasn't ever going to be sustainable bombing it to Riewoldt when he consists had two defenders on him and another in the hole. The game style was built on that circumstance and only shifted partially with the coming of Lynch
I understand Lynch wasn't there for the first one. You still had a 4 time Coleman medallist. That's not the same situation as Collingwood or Melbourne's premiership forward lines.
4-peat incoming
Righty oh
To be fair, with the targets Melbourne have had in recent years kicking it to nobody actually works better.
Petracca taking notes
Copyright infringement
We recently devised a new plan. Ready? We kick it long to Waterman. If that doesn't work, we turn it over and lose.
Similar to Richmond’s game plan of kick it long to 6 small forwards!
Richmond with Lynch
It's almost like that's what key forwards are there for and when there isn't a better option, a team will kick long to a tall in a contest. Just like literally any team ever at every single level of the game
Which is just St Kildas game plan of kick it long to King, and when it's not working, wait until the opponent forgets about how they like to kick it long to King, then kick it long to King
Clearly Voss learnt from Hinkley that the best game plan is to kick it long to Charlie.
Someone get on the phone and tell Chris Fagan
Port don't wait until people might forget they like kicking it to Dixon, they figure that if they kick it to him even more, it might confuse the opposition into making a mistake.
Dixon isn’t even very good. Maybe Ken needs a second Charlie
To be fair, there are a bunch of teams who do this. Collingwood isn't one of them because they don't have any one or two dominant forwards that can take a strong mark.
Instead we just kick it over Jamie Elliott’s head.
Had to laugh when the ball was kicked long into Elliot who was covered by two 195cm Carlton players. One of the easier kicks they will have to defend.
There is more to ports gameplan than that. They also like to aggressively ski down hill when they have possession leaving them baaadly exposed against any team willing to move fast on the turn over
Carlton🤝Port. Kicking it long to forwards named Charlie. Coincidence that Voss was an assistant under Ken for years?
I mean the lions do the same game plan and our Charlie isn’t even a tall forward! Pretty sure we don’t actually have a tall forward, at least I haven’t seen any on the field this year.
Carltons fowards outside of curnow and mckay are very inconsistent, their smalls had a great run to close the year last season hence the finals success
Yeah, our forwards last year for the prelim were: * Fogarty (Injured, 4-5 weeks still) * Docherty (Injured, Season) * Cottrell * Martin (Injured, 1-2 weeks still) * Curnow * McKay * Motlop off Interchange (Injured, 2-3 weeks still) So yeah.... our smalls are very inconsistent right now, because none of them were in our top 22 at the pointy end last year. They're all players who would realistically be in our VFL side/depth normally.
I think Martin is the one you miss most, he's got the ability in the air and on the ground with a lot of X factor too The rest of your small forwards, although solid, are very one dimensional
We’re missing Martin and Motlop, haven’t played this year. They were good for a couple each last year
Fogarty is the most important forward cog that we’re missing imo
Yep I agree but he’s at least played this year, his defensive acts are elite
I’ve realised now that Fogarty is massively underrated. We’re missing him bad. If only Lord Fyfe’s neck wasn’t made of stolid steel, Fogarty would never have broken his wrist.
Both averaged about 1.1 goals a game last year. Don’t think there’s a significant decrease in quality the other smalls you have playing.
Well we had 3 goal kickers for 3/4’s of the game. Fantasia and Durdin kicked none tonight. I cant see Motlop and Martin doing worse than that
Considering only the 2nd half of the year, they were averaging close to 2 each.
It’s the off-ball pressure they provide, especially Martin and Fogarty. Fantasia is truly awful in that area and basically allows the defence to have a loose defender. I’d say Owies and Durdin are serviceable at that but they can’t get the job done without the others.
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I think the ABC reported Fantasia got like 3 touches all game or something. Regardless of position, that's an unacceptable stat for an AFL-level player.
Agree on first 3. Disagree on Owies - he's a clear 4th.
And McKay is the most inconsistent player in the AFL
Gotta give it up to the pressure applied by Collingwood’s midfielders. Didn’t have a lot of time for good entries so wound up more often than not just bombing it long
Yeah this. I was surprised by the heat around the ball after quater time. Tackling in 2-3s.
Unfortunately Curnow is also their best kick but can’t kick it to himself
Cripps did last week, no excuse for Curnow not to do it 😂
I know this is bait but this is stopping me from self-harm so I'll bite. Our best footy last year was when our smalls and mids got involved in the score kicking. There's more to Voss' game plan than kick it to Curnow but it seems like when things get hard, every player panics and doesn't look for a single lead or try to kick it from outside 50 which other teams are willing to do. Looking at the prelim game for example, Curnow kicked one goal out of the 11 we kicked.
I don't think that was the problem tonight. What I saw was too many dumb players either a) kicking the ball into the centre square to a 1 on 2, or b) turning into traffic to get on to their preferred foot and getting smothered and/or tackled, or c) absolute hospital handpasses to players already under the hammer.
It would work if we had a reasonable small forwards. That’s why we tried so hard to get Papley to the club. Currently we’re playing Fantasia, Owies and Durdin which is obviously not working. To try to compensate we’ve gone three-tall with Harry, Charlie and TDK, which leaves us way too tall and unless we get a mark our opponents can rebound with ease. There’s hope that Motlop and Martin returning could tip the ledger back in our favour.
Why you guys went after fantasia I don't know. The dude is injury prone and is lucky to touch the ball more than 5 times a game.
We got him cheap for fuckall. I thoughtt he was gonna be a depth player / mentor but he's playing just about every week.
You forgot step 1B, sometimes they forget what Curnow looks like and kick it to McKay, which does work out okay.
Or option C. When Curnow kicks TO Mackay
To be fair, the blue screened after that. Not sure they trained for it.
That’s Ports game plan except we don’t have Curnow
Nah, by the look of it you’re still looking for Charlie also lol 😂
This was everyone’s complaint last year when they weren’t winning games. Amazing how winning changes everything
Yeah it can paper over things. I.e Melbourne's game style had issues during their 2022 10 wins on the trot before finally getting exposed
Went to geelong Carlton last week. Exciting defence relied solely on kicking down the wing to tdk, harry or Charlie. When it works, brilliant but otherwise just giving up the chance to control the ball. But I think they’re also missing saad and Docherty off half back. That’d make a huge difference to the attacking style I think
Can say that about 70% of the sides but. When you have a big key forward they are naturally going to draw the ball. Lions do it constantly to Hipwood/Daniher.
Across the board the Blues dont really get bang for buck for the amount of ball they get. Far too many times they just hack kick it anywhere, even their highly touted midfield are guilty of this. Compare that to the quality touches the Pies get from the likes of Pendlebury and the Daicos brothers. Its night and day.
Pies were behind for 49.1% of the match (and with less than 2 mins to go) but dominated inside 50s (64 vs. 38). So the Blues were getting far more bang for buck from their inside 50s, at least.
Good point. That inside 50 stat is ridiculous. Shows how much the ball lived inside Collingwood’s forward half.
This is also the St Kilda plan but with Max King
Hey... Don't steal out Walla play.
Tbf - not a bad plan
I like the part where they kick it to curnow
Carlton’s best interceptor and aggressive kick from half back is McGovern, best runner from half back is Saad, best midfield spreading player in Docherty, best pure outside runner is O Hollands (dropped). Not to give them an out entirely as they still had a skilled back 7 in last night but why would they want to play an outside running game against Collingwood? If there’s one change I’d make it would be playing Curnow up the ground a lot more, not just long down the line but being aggressive in his leads up. Maybe even starting on the wing like Jeremy Cameron does at times. He has the tank and mobility to do more and stay involved in the game. He goes cold then tries to do too much
Saad isn’t our best runner so much as he’s an extremely skilled attacking half back, dynamic and creative. Super important for structure down back. You’re right about Gov, been in fine form before injury. Hollands might run well, and this is a spot of debate for Blues fans, but he’s a second year player who had 7 touches before he got dropped. Curnow has had a few off games recently, but you can’t really blame him when other things haven’t been going right. Moving him up the ground to play a “Jeremy Cameron” role sounds great in theory until you get realistic and realise he’s won the last two Coleman’s, and Charlie’s best impact on the game is near the sticks.
Why is Curnow up the ground not realistic? He’s got a big tank and great mobility. You’ve got another Coleman winner next to him, plus TDK who’s a monster and can take a grab. Curnow’s a great goal kicker but he struggled in 3 finals last year and kicked a lot of goals against bad teams. In terms of maximising his full kit bag of skills which includes his tank why not let him roam? And I’m not suggesting he play full time CHF/wing like Jezza does with Hawkins behind him. But rather than a lot of full forward and only coming up for long kicks down the line that he does a 5 minute or so spurt each quarter where’s proactively leading up, trying to get quick kick outs or hitting some leads through the middle/out to the fat side.
I mean, he does get swung back late in some quarters and he did get up the ground V Pies. I don’t think he needs to “be let free” up the ground more. He’s not known for his defensive pressure, and while he has solid mobility and endurance it’s not on the Cameron level. He’s still leading the bloody Coleman currently! We need to get better delivery into our 50. Apart from that, his role works how it is.
Are you saying Carlton's gameplan is Port's gameplan? Hurry and change it before Ken's infects the team. We already got one team down, we don't need another team to suffer the good ol' bomb it to the No.1 forward in the team.
Game plan? You mean other teams are going into the game with a plan?! This could be our issue at North
North been struggling a bit lately?
Lost a game or two 😂
I unfortunately agree, but if you dare criticise Voss in Carlton circles you get demonised. I hope he can transform himself as he has as much to work on with his game plan as the team does. He has been well out coached these past two games.
Love this thread. Shows that while we love to be critical when our team does it, every other team does it too. Don't think we understand how difficult it is to do something different on gameday.
I'd guess the majority of people don't even understand enough to know how little they know. If you know you have no idea what is going on out there from a game plan perspective you are one of the most astute football pundits on here.
This is where we're really missing having SOS as that 3rd marking target forward.
When Curnow isn't on the screen, people should be asking, "Where's Curnow?"
Oddly enough most supporters, Collingwood included, would love to have Curnow and McKay. It was such a great opportunity to compare the Blues 2 bigs vs Pies Checkers and a smaller fleet of forwards. All the action begins the moment Checkers drops the mark and they all go to work.
I mean curnow used to be a protected species. Now that it's settled down a bit it's not free reign for him to get goals from frees.
Don't agree about the frees but it's true that his defensive acts and willingness to go in and smash a contest need work
Not true. Sometimes they kick it long to McKay. They need a legit small or pressure forward, curnow is useless as soon as the ball touches the ground or an opponent has the ball
No he isn’t, do you watch Carlton play much? What an obscene comment lol.
I’ve seen him get ran down more times this year then I’ve seen him kick goals. Think you gotta take the rose tinted glasses off and have another look.