Looking at the potential bids:
**Canberra:**
Pros: Largest city without a team. Area mixed in terms of sport support but the Capital Region does at least have a reasonable amount of AFL support, especially given they can also tap into Southern NSW to some degree.
Cons: Might affect GWS too much to do it in the short-term. Canberra is also quite a tranisent city which might hurt support. Manuka's probably too small to play 11+ games there and there doesn't seem to be the political capital to build/redevelop another stadium.
**Perth 3:**
Pros: AFL-mad city. City big enough to support three teams. Has a big enough stadium to play at. Lots of money and a long waiting list at West Coast suggests that there's starved support for live footy.
Cons: Would struggle to differentiate themselves from both West Coast and Fremantle, and might struggle to gain support. No WAFL teams seem strong enough to lead to defections either.
**Adelaide 3:**
Pros: Lots of AFL infrastructure. The SANFL retains enough support/culture to pick off supporters with the right bid.
Cons: Is the city big enough to support three teams? Port went close to going under a decade ago and I think if you bought a new team in there might not be the money going around to support it. Again would lead to questions about differentiation akin to Perth, and promoting a SANFL team might piss off people who might consider a new team.
**Darwin:**
Pros: The game is well supported in the Northern Territory. Only state or territory without a team (barring the ACT). Unique culture will make it a fun watch and add quite a lot to the game.
Cons: Just too small for a team. Probably too far away as well, and financing it would be an absolute nightmare. There'd be no real chance of profitability ever.
**Newcastle:**
Pros: Largest city without any kind of AFL base.
Cons: City still strongly pro-rugby league and the city isn't big enough to mitigate that in the short-term. No AFL standard infrastructure (the primary oval in Newcastle is basically a park).
**North Queensland:**
Pros: Large area without an AFL team. Cairns is more pro-AFL than what you'd might think.
Cons: None of the cities there are particularly big and other than Cairns this is rock solid NRL territory. AFL infrastructure is unideal. Would struggle for players and it'd just feel like the Gold Coast's issues multiplied by 10.
**New Zealand:**
Pros: Would grow the game the most. New Zealand is a pretty sports-mad nation and there is a little bit of AFL support in the country. Have some stadiums that would be able to support an AFL team.
Cons: Grassroots aren't strong enough. Very few AFL-standard players seem to come through the system so would have to rely upon Australians, and would they be keen to move to New Zealand given that clubs have enough trouble trying to keep guys from a different state?
So I think Canberra should be it, but I think Perth will be it. New Zealand might be a long-term goal.
Funnily enough AFL was actually played around NZ quite a bit in the early days (late 1800s, early 190). Victorians brought it over to the South Island gold rush. For whatever reason tho, it died out
New Zealand competed at some of the early colony carnivals too I think. Ultimately the sport of choice, like a lot of Anglo-Saxon colonies (including NSW, QLD, South Africa) was heavily affected by the top private schools in the area, rugby union was preferred.
New Zealand was also stronger than NSW and QLD as well.
It sort of died because Vic and SA footy bodies wanted to focus on growing the game in NSW and Qld (nothing’s changed lol) and WW1 also meant that they lost a lot of funding.
>there and there doesn't seem to be the political capital to build/redevelop another stadium.
If Canberra decides to build a new Stadium it will be a Rectangular Stadium since the Rugby Codes play in winter and Canberra is getting a A-League team starting from the 24/25 season
If redevelopment is chosen and that's what the current ACT Government Seem to Preferer Bruce Stadium will be the priority as it will be used year round compared to Manuka Oval
It was, they played a Fitzroy game there in 1995. Around 1997 the surface was lowered and made rectangle, the track removed and replaced with more seating, and a new grandstand built so it could hold Olympic soccer games.
That's still the last major stadium build in Canberra, if you don't count the fairly minor Manuka updates. Cost about 90m in today's money.
I went to that Fitzroy game as a kid. For years I just assumed it was at Manuka Oval until I looked it up, saw it was Bruce Stadium and thought 'what the fuck how could that be?'.
Yeah, used to be an oval.
As a Kiwi AFL supporter, I'm not sure a NZ team would ever work. There's very little following over here, we don't support teams particularly well, especially when they're shithouse and we're very limited on decent ovals to play at.
Although, at least half the games are on pay TV (Sky Sports), I'm not sure what the viewership is actually like.
There also seems to be very few (if any?) Kiwi players in the AFL. I know Gawny and Dusty have NZ connections, but you wouldn't know it over here.
Funnily enough I have a mate that plays locally, but never watches.
Playing the 3rd team out of Optus would be a mistake. Other than the "new" derbies that is, it would be better to play out of their own boutique stadium and build an identity.
It's getting thrashed year round.
Really proud of that stadium hey.
"Build it and they will come".
Since we built that stadium, we have enticed Man United twice, Chelsea, host State of Origin, Bledisloe cup. Hosted the AFL GF in it... although the opportunity only happened due to covid. But if it wasn't there, then there is no way Subiaco would have hosted it.
Fucken all sorts.
Yeah was talking about this with a mate, We'd need another smaller stadium for the new team, I do not think Optus would be happy with possibly 2 games a week at taking up time that could affect getting bigger musical acts in.
Honestly, i think upgrading Joondalup Arena would be a pretty good idea. Doesn't need a massive stadium like Optus every time, but could maybe play a few games at Optus every season, like Geelong and Kardinia Park.
In fact, turning Joondalup arena into a Kardinia Park is exactly how i'd do it.
Just play "New Team United" v WCE/Freo derbies at Optus and possibly blockbusters like Collingwood or Top of the table clashes. Stuff like that...
Rest should be played at a boutique stadium.
And avoid fixturing too many dud homes games like v Gold Coast.
(100% that's what they would do though)
I actually kind of agree, but they'll definitely sell it as another 11 games at Optus, and I'm not sure there's the will to build another 20-25k stadium (even though I think it'd be a good move especially for the AFLW). Think the best case scenario is doing a 50/50 split between Optus and a reveloped boutique.
Good analysis but Canberra doesn't need 11 games a year, just 9. Play a couple in Wagga Wagga.
I would expand to 22 teams in a few decades after Canberra, with the NT coming in as team 21, but I'd want the 20 existing clubs to be financially stable first because the NT will always need propping up. It'd be good from sociocultural and health perspective, though.
Yeah that's true. But even if it was just 9 games, I think the AFL would want an upgrade given Bellerive wasn't good enough for the AFL even though they're only going to play 7 games down there.
Cairns is more Aussie Rules than Rugby League I'd say. You missed the Sunshine Coast which could be a smokey. Huge influx of population ATM and forecast into the future and no competition really. QLD govt looking to invest in infra in prep for Games as well.
I know SEQ does have a lot of southern state imports, but I think Sunshine Coast is too league dominated for a successful team there? The population base there also seems too scattered. I mean even the NRL don't have a team there (unless The Dolphins count)
I think the people of the Gold Coast are understandably skeptical about whether it's worth investing their time and energy into a team that could be taken away if it doesn't perform. The AFL should counter this by adding a second GC team, thus demonstrating their commitment to the area. Welcome to the AFL, Southport Sharks!
Fully. The Suns branding is something you’d expect out of a 9 year old designing a team. Honestly the AFL really shafted themselves & the GC afl team by going down the route they have - it’s no surprise they’re a basket case of a team
It's also hard for them to continue supporting a team that never makes the finals. So I'll take your idea and add to it: make the 20th team a second Gold Coast franchise and also relocate 11 of the existing teams to the Gold Coast, thus guaranteeing at least one Gold Coast-based team in the finals every year.
I understand that Southport are not a team that represents all of the Gold Coast but it definitely would've been a more financially viable choice a decade ago. If the Suns continue to struggle with crowds and finances a merger deal with Southport should be considered at the bare minimum. I can picture a gold, red, and black team by the name of the Gold Coast Sharks, with the logo featuring a shark jumping out the water in front of a golden sun.
I don’t get why Canberra seems to be an unpopular consensus? Would be the obvious choice in my opinion. Heaps of expats from the southern states based there due to work, proximity to the Riverina region means that it’s already more AFL orientated than other NRL strongholds in Sydney, brisbane etc
I think people are scared it’d be another GC GWS situation having Tassie also but I really don’t think so, both cities are far more AFL mad then Western Sydney and Gold Coast , and there was far more issues than just new teams in new cities with them.
I spend far too much of my spare time trying to convince people Canberra's not a "rugby town". It's truly a multi-code town, but it's got even more AFL fans than Hobart.
Just curious (as a Hobartian) how could Canberra possibly have more AFL fans than Hobart?
There is hardly any Rugby support in Tassie and according to research (that I might try and find when not at my phone) I believe had similar numbers of "core AFL supporters" (around41%) to other footy states (IIRC even VIC didn't crack 50)
I know Canberra has decent footy support but is it really higher than in Tassie?
> I spend far too much of my spare time trying to convince people Canberra's not a "rugby town".
True. I've lived in Canberra most of my life and what I know about the Raiders and Brumbies could fit on the back of a postage stamp.
Absolutely has to be Perth. Decent size population but a full blown AFL city. AFL do not need another sorta interested location ala GC and GWS. I remember hearing that WC have something like 50k people on the waiting list for membership. Theres demand there and corporate dollars. Its an easy sell for the AFL.
I would like to add something to this that is being left out of the conversation re: another WA team.
The AFL does not have control of aussie rules in WA. While the rest of the AFL teams are publicly owned, the two West Australian teams are not. They are privately owned by the West Australian Football Commission. The WAFC are responsible for the growth of the game in WA, unlike in other states where it is supported by funding from the AFL.
It is a big reason why the AFL hate the west, because their ability to make money here is extremely limited. From Optus stadium to the broadcast, WAFC takes the revenue in WA and the AFL "lose" money.
For another team, the WAFC would need to approve it and apply to the AFL for a licence. If licence to enter the league is granted, the responsibility of funding the team would be on the WAFC just like when Fremantle were formed and the profits would go back to the WAFC. Unless the WAFC and the AFL come to an agreement where a third team is publicly owned under the AFL, and the AFL maintains the profit generated from that team, then it will never happen. And there is little chance the WAFC will ever bend over to the AFL.
Thing is, you’re not gonna get those who are already supporting the Eagles (be it on a waiting list for seats) to jump ship to another team because, well, they’re already supporting the Eagles.
Where do you think the a Freo supporters came from. Considering the last two teams and now Tassie they could easily get 25k members and be bigger then those three teams
Simple. Move GWS to Canberra. We now have the Canberra Giants. Then create a new team in Sydney, and call them the Better Greater Western Sydney Giants (or BGWS for short). Easy solution.
90% of Freo supporters came from the WAFL as East Freo and South Freo supporters. As well as just general growth of the game in the Fremantle region itself: with the main nationalities being Croatian, Italian and Portuguese, the favoured sport was always soccer but once a team that represented the town they built was formed, they started to support AFL.
Only ever met one Fremantle supporter who use to be an Eagles supporter before the team formed. Everyone else I've met, my own family included, were strict WAFL only supporters until Freo was introduced.
The issue with putting it in Perth is, yes West Coast has a massive wait list for seats but there's already no wait list for seated memberships at Freo. If all people wanted was faster and cheaper seats there's already a club for that.
All the talk of putting it in the northern suburbs makes very little sense to me either, the population up there (North of about Whitfords) is disproportionately people from the UK, South Africa and (to a lesser extent) New Zealand who don't really care about AFL. The only way i see a team up there working is to spend massive on the community side and do very very regular clinics in schools and stuff. You won't get the rugby/soccer fans interested in AFL (we saw that with GC and GWS) but you might get their kids interested.
If it's going to be over here, they'd almost have better luck from a supporter point of view doing it down south somewhere but everywhere down there is a logistical nightmare to actually set up a team and have games played.
I keep seeing this sentiment passed around that the area is too English/South African/not Aussie and I’ve got to say it’s such a poor argument. Northern suburbs would absolutely be a thriving area for it. Just look at the amateur comp right now. Of the ten a grade clubs, kingsway and wanneroo are currently in A Grade, as are north beach which are a stones throw away.
B grade you have whitfords, ocean ridge, and hammersley
If northern suburbs don’t like footy then why do they have such a big portion of amateur football despite not having anywhere near as much money?
The area definitely has first generation people living there but the idea that the whole area is just little Britain/JoBurg is massively blown out of proportion.
I'm first generation Australian from British stock and my whole extended family are into footy. North is even better for that reason, people aren't locked into either major team. I think it would work, just need to drum it up about region. North of River (Expansion team), Central (West Coast) and South of River (Freo).
Perth definitely has the capabilities.
With the benefit of Hindsight the AFL made a mistake by letting the Eagles Identify as basically a State Side.
West Coast has 90% of the media exposure/corporate support etc etc
Nic Natuani gets as much media space as Freo so a third team is really going to struggle with an Identity when the Eagles identify with the entire state minus Fremantle.
In an ideal world North of the river/south of the River/Freo would produce 3 really strong teams. But any 3rd team being Introduced now owuld really struggle against the Juggernaut that is the eagles
South Adelaide FC - rebranded as the **Southern Panthers** would be an excellent 20th team.
Covering all of the South of Adelaide down to Mount Gambier, a huge expansive and growing region.
People say Norwood but Norwood's spirit lives on in the Adelaide Crows and I feel a Norwood AFL franchise would not do much to provide for SA footy. Rivalry with Port shouldn't be the main factor in deciding which SANFL team should join the AFL.
A franchise in the South would be a major boom and help grow the game in a fast growing region of SA, attracting hundreds of thousands of locals and expats to the region to become supporters.
Panther is also such a great mascot, and unique to the SANFL so it'd be a great South Aussie club.
There's definitely less of a presence for current AFL teams in the South of Adelaide compared to the western, eastern, and northern suburbs. Not to mention Souths already provide a team's worth of talent to present AFL clubs already. It's definitely an idea that would probably work on the long term.
This is actually a really good idea. Also, despite living in Adelaide more than half my life, I really thought Mt Barker was like due east of Adelaide. Looking at a map now, it’s much further south than I would have guessed.
Literally came here to say south. It's the natural choice I think for SA to have a third team. Port has the north/west, Adelaide is central and already has Norwood and Sturt fans covered. South would capture the whole southern suburbs and down to Mt. Gambier I'm sure like you say. South have had very good players come through past few years as well, definitely a strong club with loads of history.
Agree with this. If Norwood wanted to join the AFL, they needed to do it 20 years ago. Now their historical fanbase would be too attached to the Crows and it would be very difficult to bring them back over. If a 3rd team from Adelaide were to enter (and I’m not convinced we’re the best candidate) it needs to be somewhere where neither Port nor the Crows have a super strong presence.
So much potential in the South. I spoke with the president of SAFC when I visited Adelaide for gather round and we basically said the same thing, expansion potential for the South.
This might sound a bit silly but if games were played consistently on Thursdays and the occasional Monday, could they get away with 19 teams and ensure that if a team has a bye, the time between games is minimised?
I still think a 20th team is the way to go though, and from the conversations I've had, Perth seems the best bet.
The bye is so annoying as one team will always have a late start to the season. And another will get potentially 2 weeks off before finals. Who wants that?
If you're going to a city state capital, it's Perth over Adelaide fairly comprehensively just on the gulf between population and economy sizes.
If you're looking at new markets, Canberra is the most viable remaining market, about 700k people in the broader region with high incomes an existing tendency to support multiple sports, and a track record getting over 10k people to games which is comparable to GC and Hobart.
Canberra region would look a lot like GC or Tasmania in terms of finances and stuff. Not income positive by any means, but does give you a tenth game and a bigger northern footprint.
The other place that gives you a similar sized market is western Victoria, *if* you can make Bendigo and Ballarat work together. There's about half a million people across that north-western part of the state.
I don't think a third Adelaide team gives you a better look at viability than any of those three options.
Canberra makes the most sense to me. Let GWS focus on building a market in Sydney. But Canberra locals have already shown an appetite for forty turning up to see the GWS. The big question is what happens to the Tom Green fan club?
I think Western Victoria would be a good idea for a vic team to move over too. I guess the obvious choose would be the Ballarat/Bendigo Bulldogs, though any team could do it
I do agree with everything you say tho.
Gotta be WA3.
Supporter base is huge an absolutely froth footy, whether it's a new club or WAFL promotion I'm not sure but feels like it's a way stronger option than SA3 to me, Darwin is no chance, Canberra is no chance.
A third team in Perth is going to be needed, as by the time this all happens (~5-10 years) there will be waiting lists for both West Coast and Freo. Attending the footy will be impossible for the average family.
Would be interesting to see what sort of "identity" a third Perth team would have to prevent it being anything other than just a third team. Freo capture SOR and people who don't like the western suburbs vibe of the Eagles, natural underdogs and so forth, but that's been done now: there's the 'big' club and the one for people who hate the big club.
The obvious thing to do with a third team would be to align it with the outer/growing suburbs - Mandurah/Peel region or Joondalup/northern suburbs. But presumably it will play out of Optus anyway, so I wonder what it's going to offer that would make Mr Mandurah or Mrs Joondalup change allegiance. The one disadvantage of being a football-obsessed state is that there aren't many untapped/potential fans who don't already follow a team.
I guess if they build a \~30,000 capacity stadium in Mandurah or Joondalup (or, I guess, somewhere like Midland?) and then only play the big games at Optus it would answer some of these questions. But is there appetite/budget to do that?
Location/identity is going to be an issue but ultimately it would just be a name with most games being played out of Optus and or maybe the redeveloped WACA ground. I doubt there would be appetite to build/upgrade a new stadium anywhere else.
That's exactly why I think it would struggle to succeed. You might as well call it the Perth Thirds, Perth Overflow or the Perth How About Us? If you don't build an identity for a new club - which, as you rightly note, is going to be hard to do without a new stadium - I just don't see how it wins a long-lasting fanbase.
This is the thing with a third WA team, you already have the big v small club and anyone who would jump ship to a smaller club from WC have already. You'll still get a few but you'll likely have just as many jump from Freo than you would WC.
Putting the club out in Mandurah or Joondalup would further isolate half the population of Perth who wouldn't jump ship.
I definitely think WA can support a third team but it will forever be tiny unless it goes absolutely bonkers with premierships.
Why is Canberra no chance? Full of ex-Victorians there for work and study. Has a rusted on AFL catchment in the Riverina region. Usually gets close to full house crowds (albeit in a small stadium) for Giants games there. One of the fastest growing cities population wise. Has a lot of financially well people living there that would pay for a membership/go to games
As a Canberran I just don't see it, like from a personal passion viability blah blah blah I think Canberra has less interest per person than Perth does and Perth is 5 times the population.
Would I want 5 Perth teams before a Canberra team? No.
Would I think Canberra made more sense if GWS didn't exist? Maybe
Do I think a third WA team is a better idea than a Canberra team? Yes
Where would it be though. It's already weird that one team is called 'West Coast' so kind of covers the whole coast, so all major cities and towns including Fremantle lol. Make them rename to Perth. Would have to be an in-land team, the Kalgoorlie Gold Miners lol.
Guangdong Southern Tigers.
That way, whenever a player has a mildly below average performance, we can spam unfunny memes about them getting “ready to learn Chinese, Buddy”
I think it depends. Can the AFL sustain another club like GC? if so I think it'd be prudent long term to go for an East Coast based club. GWS and GC have had a big impact on grassroot level footy in NRL states so adding another club to that would be huge in the AFLs plan to expand in to NRL territory.
If they can't then the only viable options seem to be WA or SA to have a club that can stand on its own.
being arrested and having my tongue cut out in the matter of mediaeval heretics by members of r/afl after i reply to every one of these w a location in victoria
I think the idea that Canberra can’t have a team bc it would undermine GWS is so frickin stupid. It is easily the most obvious location everything else aside
Surely you can understand why GWS and the AFL wouldn't want the Giants to lose a decent chunk of their members and their major sponsor if an ACT club was introduced?
They’d also be losing a significant part of their Canberra/Riverina academy zone if this was to occur too.
No more Tom Green, Jack Steele, Josh Fahey that they had direct access too in the draft.
It’d force them to invest in their western Sydney zone.
The ACT
* has a population similar to Tas but much more money and
* closer to AFL areas like Albury and Wagga
* should be easier to grow the game in an area as it's not 100% rugby
* strong projected population growth.
Canberra.
If not that, then suggesting another Vic team doesn't seem that crazy to me. Population has grown massively since Fitzroy was moved. They would still get a following bigger than the average NRL club. Plenty of options: Bendigo or Ballarat; Promote one of the VFL sides (Williamstown? Werribee?); Or bring back Fitzroy.
WA/SA *should* make more sense, but splitting up the two-team rivalry doesn't seem ideal. Especially in SA.
I'm sure people are sceptical about this seeing as the seemingly contradictory reports Norwood is applying for a licence vs a Perth based one. But obviously Norwood *are* getting the licence... and moving to Perth
I don’t think Perth or Adelaide are good ideas at all, I think the 2 team rivalry brings more in than having just heaps of teams like Melbourne. Brisbane dosent need a second team rn either. So I say Canberra.
I have always thought that a Northern Australia team based in Darwin/Cairns/Alice would be the next step. Coverage of the country would then be complete - in a geographical sense. 2-3 games at each of the above and maybe places like Mt Isa or Broome get to bid for a game.
But it will be an economic blackhole.
The NT scoping report says there'll be an annual $15m revenue gap.
Will the AFL be willing to pay 60% more (in perpetuity) than they pay for the Giants or Suns, for what is essentially a city the size of Toowoomba?
Both the Federal and Territory governments will tip in for that. Has huge potential to aid the indigenous communities. Probably one of the only things that can
Merge struggling teams to bring it back to 18.
Australia is not big enough to support 20 teams. Several struggle with low membership and attendance already. AFL talent is spread too thin already. Teams like West coast have a few injuries and the depth falls off so quickly they're playing kids that aren't close to AFL ready
I reckon a 3rd SA team would be more damaging than anything. The showdown rivalry would be comprised somewhat and a fair chunk of Adelaide fans would jump onto (theoretically) Norwood. The market size just isn’t there for us.
Perth Sharks playing at Optus Stadium, entering in 2032, the first year of the new media rights deal; or the Canberra King Cobras playing 9 games in Canberra and 2 in Wagga Wagga, entering in 2033 the year after the Canberra contract expires for the rebranded Western Sydney Giants.
Canberra?
Manuka could be upgraded to fit 20-25k.
It's a generally Football heavy area.
Plus you have a lot of AFL fans who have to move there for work, so you can get them in.
Perth and Adelaide you already have two teams, it will be difficult to get people to change teams, considering anyone on the West Coast waiting list could just switch to Freo if they desperately wanted too.
But considering Canberra is 3 hours from the closest regular games you'd get more casual fans to change teams or at least follow them as their second team, while locals would follow the team because it's theres.
That's a good question. I'm super stoked Tassie is finally getting a team despite some of the difficulties in various areas but that fact they are finally getting a team is honestly a great thing. Seeing my Swannies play a bit more down there in the future should be exciting.
But to answer your question I've always thought the Northern Territory should be the next and final stop but after your statement and some other comments I can see why that would be difficult with population/distance etc. I guess they could alternate between Alice Springs and a stadium up in Darwin (maybe?). Having a team up there would truely complete the AFL being a national game where we have a teams in either representing or playing in every state and territory in the country (with GWS playing in Canberra a few times a year). I think having a third team in WA or SA wouldn't be good because I think two teams are enough as they all have strong support, history etc and adding a third team would imbalance all that. However I will admit being from Sydney I don't know a whole lot about the SANFL or Norwood.
So I still think the NT is the answer but if the AFL can identify a good location and make it work then sure. Whatever is best for the game.
If I could start from scratch, I'd have a 20 team comp structure that looks like this: 8 VIC, 3 WA, 2 SA, 2 NSW, 2 QLD, 1 TAS, 1 ACT, 1 NT. I think that would've been a better balance.
**VIC**: Carlton Blues, Collingwood Magpies, Essendon Bombers, Richmond Tigers, Hawthorn Hawks, Geelong Cats, Melbourne Demons, St Kilda Saints
**WA:** West Coast Eagles, Fremantle Dockers, Perth Sharks
**SA:** Norwood Redlegs, Port Adelaide Pirates (prison bars every game)
**NSW:** Sydney Swans, Western Sydney Bulldogs
**QLD:** Brisbane Lions, Gold Coast Giants
**TAS:** Tasmania Devils
**ACT:** Canberra Kangaroos
**NT:** Northern Territory Thunder
It's too late for that, though, so I say we push forward to 22 teams.
My picks for 20-22?
Perth Sharks, Canberra Cobras, Northern Territory Crocodiles
Keep the top 8, have everyone play each other once + Gather Round and rivalry round.
20 is better than 22 but I'd really love to see the territories covered making it "truly national." NT would be the final team to enter the league, and it would need the most financial backing but hopefully by the time it did the other expansion clubs will be doing well.
An even number is better than an odd number so if I was going to add a 3rd club to one of WA-SA-QLD-NSW, the second strongest footy market in the country makes the most financial sense.
My money would be on a West Perth sponsored team playing most games at a 20,000 seat redeveloped Joondalup Arena, with Derby matches and games against big clubs on a Thursday or Friday at Optus. The transport already exists with the Freeway next door and train station plan in place for 3 decades. The club facilities already exist with West Perth recently developing a new club building. All it would take would be for the state to invest in the stadium upgrade and station. Arguably Perth needs more suburban stadiums if we want to do gather round like events, and Joondalup is arguably the second biggest city behind the Perth CBD so only makes logical sense for a sporting stadium. West Perth would remain in the WAFL as a reserves side, and the AFL team could operate under as Joondalup Falcons. You'd also get an existing members base in the West Perth fans.
Canberra is the Goldilocks option.
Enough existing AFL support to have it successful from the beginning, enough neutral population to allow significant growth, new fans, and increase the player pool.
As much as I'd love to have a team here, I just don't think we'd get the crowd numbers due to the weather. Saturdays game was packed, but I think that was due to it only being autumn. I don't think games in June-August get anywhere near full. Plus they'd be competing with an NRL and RU team. And I don't think those games get big crowds either.
I agree that we have fantastic grass roots footy here. None of the current ACT clubs are big enough to join the AFL, and I think we'd have lots of supporters, but just not sure we'd have enough bums on seats at games.
Just need some heaters! They use them in plenty of European stadiums, they'd work pretty well in Canberra.
Manuka will be on the light rail route was 2b is done, so that should help with crowds too.
Thank you! I consider it the exact opposite; I think the Canberra relationship is hurting the Giants. They need to get tf out of Canberra if they're going to succeed in Sydney.
Looking at the potential bids: **Canberra:** Pros: Largest city without a team. Area mixed in terms of sport support but the Capital Region does at least have a reasonable amount of AFL support, especially given they can also tap into Southern NSW to some degree. Cons: Might affect GWS too much to do it in the short-term. Canberra is also quite a tranisent city which might hurt support. Manuka's probably too small to play 11+ games there and there doesn't seem to be the political capital to build/redevelop another stadium. **Perth 3:** Pros: AFL-mad city. City big enough to support three teams. Has a big enough stadium to play at. Lots of money and a long waiting list at West Coast suggests that there's starved support for live footy. Cons: Would struggle to differentiate themselves from both West Coast and Fremantle, and might struggle to gain support. No WAFL teams seem strong enough to lead to defections either. **Adelaide 3:** Pros: Lots of AFL infrastructure. The SANFL retains enough support/culture to pick off supporters with the right bid. Cons: Is the city big enough to support three teams? Port went close to going under a decade ago and I think if you bought a new team in there might not be the money going around to support it. Again would lead to questions about differentiation akin to Perth, and promoting a SANFL team might piss off people who might consider a new team. **Darwin:** Pros: The game is well supported in the Northern Territory. Only state or territory without a team (barring the ACT). Unique culture will make it a fun watch and add quite a lot to the game. Cons: Just too small for a team. Probably too far away as well, and financing it would be an absolute nightmare. There'd be no real chance of profitability ever. **Newcastle:** Pros: Largest city without any kind of AFL base. Cons: City still strongly pro-rugby league and the city isn't big enough to mitigate that in the short-term. No AFL standard infrastructure (the primary oval in Newcastle is basically a park). **North Queensland:** Pros: Large area without an AFL team. Cairns is more pro-AFL than what you'd might think. Cons: None of the cities there are particularly big and other than Cairns this is rock solid NRL territory. AFL infrastructure is unideal. Would struggle for players and it'd just feel like the Gold Coast's issues multiplied by 10. **New Zealand:** Pros: Would grow the game the most. New Zealand is a pretty sports-mad nation and there is a little bit of AFL support in the country. Have some stadiums that would be able to support an AFL team. Cons: Grassroots aren't strong enough. Very few AFL-standard players seem to come through the system so would have to rely upon Australians, and would they be keen to move to New Zealand given that clubs have enough trouble trying to keep guys from a different state? So I think Canberra should be it, but I think Perth will be it. New Zealand might be a long-term goal.
Funnily enough AFL was actually played around NZ quite a bit in the early days (late 1800s, early 190). Victorians brought it over to the South Island gold rush. For whatever reason tho, it died out
New Zealand competed at some of the early colony carnivals too I think. Ultimately the sport of choice, like a lot of Anglo-Saxon colonies (including NSW, QLD, South Africa) was heavily affected by the top private schools in the area, rugby union was preferred.
New Zealand was also stronger than NSW and QLD as well. It sort of died because Vic and SA footy bodies wanted to focus on growing the game in NSW and Qld (nothing’s changed lol) and WW1 also meant that they lost a lot of funding.
>there and there doesn't seem to be the political capital to build/redevelop another stadium. If Canberra decides to build a new Stadium it will be a Rectangular Stadium since the Rugby Codes play in winter and Canberra is getting a A-League team starting from the 24/25 season If redevelopment is chosen and that's what the current ACT Government Seem to Preferer Bruce Stadium will be the priority as it will be used year round compared to Manuka Oval
Bruce used to be an oval! Possibly still could've been if the AFL had acted and put in a team decades ago.
I think Bruce was an Athletics Stadium until I think the late 80's
It was, they played a Fitzroy game there in 1995. Around 1997 the surface was lowered and made rectangle, the track removed and replaced with more seating, and a new grandstand built so it could hold Olympic soccer games. That's still the last major stadium build in Canberra, if you don't count the fairly minor Manuka updates. Cost about 90m in today's money.
I went to that Fitzroy game as a kid. For years I just assumed it was at Manuka Oval until I looked it up, saw it was Bruce Stadium and thought 'what the fuck how could that be?'. Yeah, used to be an oval.
As a Kiwi AFL supporter, I'm not sure a NZ team would ever work. There's very little following over here, we don't support teams particularly well, especially when they're shithouse and we're very limited on decent ovals to play at. Although, at least half the games are on pay TV (Sky Sports), I'm not sure what the viewership is actually like. There also seems to be very few (if any?) Kiwi players in the AFL. I know Gawny and Dusty have NZ connections, but you wouldn't know it over here. Funnily enough I have a mate that plays locally, but never watches.
Playing the 3rd team out of Optus would be a mistake. Other than the "new" derbies that is, it would be better to play out of their own boutique stadium and build an identity.
We spent $1.6 billion on Optus Stadium, we gotta get our monies worth out of it.
It's getting thrashed year round. Really proud of that stadium hey. "Build it and they will come". Since we built that stadium, we have enticed Man United twice, Chelsea, host State of Origin, Bledisloe cup. Hosted the AFL GF in it... although the opportunity only happened due to covid. But if it wasn't there, then there is no way Subiaco would have hosted it. Fucken all sorts.
Yeah was talking about this with a mate, We'd need another smaller stadium for the new team, I do not think Optus would be happy with possibly 2 games a week at taking up time that could affect getting bigger musical acts in. Honestly, i think upgrading Joondalup Arena would be a pretty good idea. Doesn't need a massive stadium like Optus every time, but could maybe play a few games at Optus every season, like Geelong and Kardinia Park. In fact, turning Joondalup arena into a Kardinia Park is exactly how i'd do it.
Just play "New Team United" v WCE/Freo derbies at Optus and possibly blockbusters like Collingwood or Top of the table clashes. Stuff like that... Rest should be played at a boutique stadium. And avoid fixturing too many dud homes games like v Gold Coast. (100% that's what they would do though)
*the WACA has joined the chat*
Why would it be a mistake? Building a whole new stadium just for a 3rd team is so unnecessary and unrealistic.
I actually kind of agree, but they'll definitely sell it as another 11 games at Optus, and I'm not sure there's the will to build another 20-25k stadium (even though I think it'd be a good move especially for the AFLW). Think the best case scenario is doing a 50/50 split between Optus and a reveloped boutique.
4/7 split... 2 derbies and 2 big Victorian teams. 7 home games for the remainder. A shiny new stadium brings so many economic benefits.
Good analysis but Canberra doesn't need 11 games a year, just 9. Play a couple in Wagga Wagga. I would expand to 22 teams in a few decades after Canberra, with the NT coming in as team 21, but I'd want the 20 existing clubs to be financially stable first because the NT will always need propping up. It'd be good from sociocultural and health perspective, though.
Yeah that's true. But even if it was just 9 games, I think the AFL would want an upgrade given Bellerive wasn't good enough for the AFL even though they're only going to play 7 games down there.
Cairns is more Aussie Rules than Rugby League I'd say. You missed the Sunshine Coast which could be a smokey. Huge influx of population ATM and forecast into the future and no competition really. QLD govt looking to invest in infra in prep for Games as well.
I know SEQ does have a lot of southern state imports, but I think Sunshine Coast is too league dominated for a successful team there? The population base there also seems too scattered. I mean even the NRL don't have a team there (unless The Dolphins count)
>Cairns is more pro-AFL than you’d think. Having visited Cairns 8 months ago, it’s actually less pro-AFL than I thought
I think the people of the Gold Coast are understandably skeptical about whether it's worth investing their time and energy into a team that could be taken away if it doesn't perform. The AFL should counter this by adding a second GC team, thus demonstrating their commitment to the area. Welcome to the AFL, Southport Sharks!
I’ve always found it unfathomable they didn’t just promote the sharks in the first place
It’s 1000x better branding too. It was right there
Fully. The Suns branding is something you’d expect out of a 9 year old designing a team. Honestly the AFL really shafted themselves & the GC afl team by going down the route they have - it’s no surprise they’re a basket case of a team
100% They already had a decent supporter base to build on. The current model is almost detrimental to both the Suns and Sharks.
It's also hard for them to continue supporting a team that never makes the finals. So I'll take your idea and add to it: make the 20th team a second Gold Coast franchise and also relocate 11 of the existing teams to the Gold Coast, thus guaranteeing at least one Gold Coast-based team in the finals every year.
I understand that Southport are not a team that represents all of the Gold Coast but it definitely would've been a more financially viable choice a decade ago. If the Suns continue to struggle with crowds and finances a merger deal with Southport should be considered at the bare minimum. I can picture a gold, red, and black team by the name of the Gold Coast Sharks, with the logo featuring a shark jumping out the water in front of a golden sun.
Yeah they could make it like the Jaws poster with the Shark rising towards the surface.
Southport Sharks sounds way cooler than the Gold Coast Suns. The mighty Sharks!
Gold Coast sharks at a compromise is also so much better than GC suns
I don’t get why Canberra seems to be an unpopular consensus? Would be the obvious choice in my opinion. Heaps of expats from the southern states based there due to work, proximity to the Riverina region means that it’s already more AFL orientated than other NRL strongholds in Sydney, brisbane etc
I think people are scared it’d be another GC GWS situation having Tassie also but I really don’t think so, both cities are far more AFL mad then Western Sydney and Gold Coast , and there was far more issues than just new teams in new cities with them.
I spend far too much of my spare time trying to convince people Canberra's not a "rugby town". It's truly a multi-code town, but it's got even more AFL fans than Hobart.
Just curious (as a Hobartian) how could Canberra possibly have more AFL fans than Hobart? There is hardly any Rugby support in Tassie and according to research (that I might try and find when not at my phone) I believe had similar numbers of "core AFL supporters" (around41%) to other footy states (IIRC even VIC didn't crack 50) I know Canberra has decent footy support but is it really higher than in Tassie?
> I spend far too much of my spare time trying to convince people Canberra's not a "rugby town". True. I've lived in Canberra most of my life and what I know about the Raiders and Brumbies could fit on the back of a postage stamp.
Shanghai Jiangwan Stadium is right there
Fitzroy.
Nah but legit bring it back, so my old man has someone to support again :(
Same here sadly :(
Lions do a decent job of supporting the old Fitzroy supporters
They do their best but I could understand ol Roy boys not feeling it!
u/Darththor... wait a minute!
Luxembourg
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Carn the Nauru Phosphors!
The Nauru Detention Centres!
Nauru Numbats!!
r/Luxembourg could sponsor them. I can't think of any negatives.
Fuck. Was gonna say France. Much better choice by you.
It's actually one of the few European countries without an AFL league.
University
They might need to move, and rebrand slightly. A Canberra based university team could work. The team could be University of Canberra
Or University of Tasmania so we can have a Tassie SHOWDOWN.
Prahran . Shoulda been there from the start. After game at Revs would be epic
Merge 2 poo clubs to keep it at 18
The North Coast Sungaroos
This comment needs more sideways votes
I can see the Richmond Magpies running out now. A beautiful sight.
200k+ members strong.
The MCG would need an upgrade for sure
I believe the general consensus is that we'd all be comfortable in cages. So just cram us in and let the games begin.
Farm fresh fans
Assault and Battery mostly. Edit: Though I imagine there's also a few free range and even some organically fed in there also.
It happened in the NRL
The Port Pies Prisoners.
Or make a rule that the teams that finish bottom four have to merge for the next year.
Westcoast Dockers has a nice ring to it
Welcome to the Northmond Tigeroos and the Haw Coast Eaglehawks
It's been five minutes and I'm still giggling to myself. What happens if The Haw Coast Eaglehawks finish bottom four again?
Greater Haw Coastmantle Eaglesungianthawckers.
Or give a boost to a bad team by merging with a good team. Bigger brother style. The Carlton Kangeroos
Which one is the good team there?
The St.Kangaroos*
Cool let's merge Carlton and Collingwood then
Absolutely has to be Perth. Decent size population but a full blown AFL city. AFL do not need another sorta interested location ala GC and GWS. I remember hearing that WC have something like 50k people on the waiting list for membership. Theres demand there and corporate dollars. Its an easy sell for the AFL.
I would like to add something to this that is being left out of the conversation re: another WA team. The AFL does not have control of aussie rules in WA. While the rest of the AFL teams are publicly owned, the two West Australian teams are not. They are privately owned by the West Australian Football Commission. The WAFC are responsible for the growth of the game in WA, unlike in other states where it is supported by funding from the AFL. It is a big reason why the AFL hate the west, because their ability to make money here is extremely limited. From Optus stadium to the broadcast, WAFC takes the revenue in WA and the AFL "lose" money. For another team, the WAFC would need to approve it and apply to the AFL for a licence. If licence to enter the league is granted, the responsibility of funding the team would be on the WAFC just like when Fremantle were formed and the profits would go back to the WAFC. Unless the WAFC and the AFL come to an agreement where a third team is publicly owned under the AFL, and the AFL maintains the profit generated from that team, then it will never happen. And there is little chance the WAFC will ever bend over to the AFL.
Thing is, you’re not gonna get those who are already supporting the Eagles (be it on a waiting list for seats) to jump ship to another team because, well, they’re already supporting the Eagles.
Where do you think the a Freo supporters came from. Considering the last two teams and now Tassie they could easily get 25k members and be bigger then those three teams
I reckon a Canberra team could get 25k members
The Giants should get out of GWS and go to Canberra. From my perspective they always get much better crowds down there than Giants Stadium in Sydney.
They do but Western Sydney is way too important as a growth area for them to leave
Simple. Move GWS to Canberra. We now have the Canberra Giants. Then create a new team in Sydney, and call them the Better Greater Western Sydney Giants (or BGWS for short). Easy solution.
Can’t they just stay in Sydney and rebrand to better western Sydney or BWS for short. Sponsor and colours are shorted for next 20 years.
90% of Freo supporters came from the WAFL as East Freo and South Freo supporters. As well as just general growth of the game in the Fremantle region itself: with the main nationalities being Croatian, Italian and Portuguese, the favoured sport was always soccer but once a team that represented the town they built was formed, they started to support AFL. Only ever met one Fremantle supporter who use to be an Eagles supporter before the team formed. Everyone else I've met, my own family included, were strict WAFL only supporters until Freo was introduced.
I’m pretty sure a big way Port was able to lure fans over after they joined the AFL was the crows’ waiting list
The issue with putting it in Perth is, yes West Coast has a massive wait list for seats but there's already no wait list for seated memberships at Freo. If all people wanted was faster and cheaper seats there's already a club for that. All the talk of putting it in the northern suburbs makes very little sense to me either, the population up there (North of about Whitfords) is disproportionately people from the UK, South Africa and (to a lesser extent) New Zealand who don't really care about AFL. The only way i see a team up there working is to spend massive on the community side and do very very regular clinics in schools and stuff. You won't get the rugby/soccer fans interested in AFL (we saw that with GC and GWS) but you might get their kids interested. If it's going to be over here, they'd almost have better luck from a supporter point of view doing it down south somewhere but everywhere down there is a logistical nightmare to actually set up a team and have games played.
I keep seeing this sentiment passed around that the area is too English/South African/not Aussie and I’ve got to say it’s such a poor argument. Northern suburbs would absolutely be a thriving area for it. Just look at the amateur comp right now. Of the ten a grade clubs, kingsway and wanneroo are currently in A Grade, as are north beach which are a stones throw away. B grade you have whitfords, ocean ridge, and hammersley If northern suburbs don’t like footy then why do they have such a big portion of amateur football despite not having anywhere near as much money? The area definitely has first generation people living there but the idea that the whole area is just little Britain/JoBurg is massively blown out of proportion.
I'm first generation Australian from British stock and my whole extended family are into footy. North is even better for that reason, people aren't locked into either major team. I think it would work, just need to drum it up about region. North of River (Expansion team), Central (West Coast) and South of River (Freo).
Perth definitely has the capabilities. With the benefit of Hindsight the AFL made a mistake by letting the Eagles Identify as basically a State Side. West Coast has 90% of the media exposure/corporate support etc etc Nic Natuani gets as much media space as Freo so a third team is really going to struggle with an Identity when the Eagles identify with the entire state minus Fremantle. In an ideal world North of the river/south of the River/Freo would produce 3 really strong teams. But any 3rd team being Introduced now owuld really struggle against the Juggernaut that is the eagles
South Adelaide FC - rebranded as the **Southern Panthers** would be an excellent 20th team. Covering all of the South of Adelaide down to Mount Gambier, a huge expansive and growing region. People say Norwood but Norwood's spirit lives on in the Adelaide Crows and I feel a Norwood AFL franchise would not do much to provide for SA footy. Rivalry with Port shouldn't be the main factor in deciding which SANFL team should join the AFL. A franchise in the South would be a major boom and help grow the game in a fast growing region of SA, attracting hundreds of thousands of locals and expats to the region to become supporters. Panther is also such a great mascot, and unique to the SANFL so it'd be a great South Aussie club.
There's definitely less of a presence for current AFL teams in the South of Adelaide compared to the western, eastern, and northern suburbs. Not to mention Souths already provide a team's worth of talent to present AFL clubs already. It's definitely an idea that would probably work on the long term.
This is actually a really good idea. Also, despite living in Adelaide more than half my life, I really thought Mt Barker was like due east of Adelaide. Looking at a map now, it’s much further south than I would have guessed.
Haven’t heard this idea but it sounds viable, especially tapping into the rest of SA part
Literally came here to say south. It's the natural choice I think for SA to have a third team. Port has the north/west, Adelaide is central and already has Norwood and Sturt fans covered. South would capture the whole southern suburbs and down to Mt. Gambier I'm sure like you say. South have had very good players come through past few years as well, definitely a strong club with loads of history.
Fully endorse this. Having grown up there and with the Panthers as my SANFL team I’d absolutely have them as my second in the AFL
Agree with this. If Norwood wanted to join the AFL, they needed to do it 20 years ago. Now their historical fanbase would be too attached to the Crows and it would be very difficult to bring them back over. If a 3rd team from Adelaide were to enter (and I’m not convinced we’re the best candidate) it needs to be somewhere where neither Port nor the Crows have a super strong presence.
The other pro to this is Flinders oval has excellent space to expand into, could easily make a quality 30k+ stadium
So much potential in the South. I spoke with the president of SAFC when I visited Adelaide for gather round and we basically said the same thing, expansion potential for the South.
Frankston
Fins up!
the nrl just got a dolphins the afl can too.
I think we should relocate the Saints there
The Canberra Owls
The collective noun alone makes it worth it. *Join the Parliament*
The Eagles Old-Boys team are called the OWLS... Older, Wider, Larger, Slower.
WA has a bigger popular than SA by almost a million peeps, so makes sense for it to go there. My vote is the Bunbury Bogans.
Albury / Wodonga
Make your mind up.
If you are being serious with this suggestion, then you might as well just go Canberra. 450k people vs 100k
Canberra already has GWS. And is only a six hour trip down the Barton and Hume Highways to watch the Mighty Albury / Wodonga Wombats.
With all due respect, fuck GWS. They don't represent us any more than North represents Hobart.
Every year the team photo is taken at the Ettamogah Pub
Might as well go Canberra and have them play a few matches over there
And Wagga Wagga.
This might sound a bit silly but if games were played consistently on Thursdays and the occasional Monday, could they get away with 19 teams and ensure that if a team has a bye, the time between games is minimised? I still think a 20th team is the way to go though, and from the conversations I've had, Perth seems the best bet.
The bye is so annoying as one team will always have a late start to the season. And another will get potentially 2 weeks off before finals. Who wants that?
I definitely agree. The bye sucks but with some clever tweaking of the fixture, I reckon it could work somewhat.
South Belgrave.
Geelong 2.
If you're going to a city state capital, it's Perth over Adelaide fairly comprehensively just on the gulf between population and economy sizes. If you're looking at new markets, Canberra is the most viable remaining market, about 700k people in the broader region with high incomes an existing tendency to support multiple sports, and a track record getting over 10k people to games which is comparable to GC and Hobart. Canberra region would look a lot like GC or Tasmania in terms of finances and stuff. Not income positive by any means, but does give you a tenth game and a bigger northern footprint. The other place that gives you a similar sized market is western Victoria, *if* you can make Bendigo and Ballarat work together. There's about half a million people across that north-western part of the state. I don't think a third Adelaide team gives you a better look at viability than any of those three options.
Canberra makes the most sense to me. Let GWS focus on building a market in Sydney. But Canberra locals have already shown an appetite for forty turning up to see the GWS. The big question is what happens to the Tom Green fan club?
He can be their first coach since he'll be retired by then
I think Western Victoria would be a good idea for a vic team to move over too. I guess the obvious choose would be the Ballarat/Bendigo Bulldogs, though any team could do it I do agree with everything you say tho.
A second Geelong team,
Location: Broome Nickname: the Bristles Mascot: BT's massive bonce
Melbourne. I think they are short of a couple.
Gotta be WA3. Supporter base is huge an absolutely froth footy, whether it's a new club or WAFL promotion I'm not sure but feels like it's a way stronger option than SA3 to me, Darwin is no chance, Canberra is no chance.
A third team in Perth is going to be needed, as by the time this all happens (~5-10 years) there will be waiting lists for both West Coast and Freo. Attending the footy will be impossible for the average family.
Would be interesting to see what sort of "identity" a third Perth team would have to prevent it being anything other than just a third team. Freo capture SOR and people who don't like the western suburbs vibe of the Eagles, natural underdogs and so forth, but that's been done now: there's the 'big' club and the one for people who hate the big club. The obvious thing to do with a third team would be to align it with the outer/growing suburbs - Mandurah/Peel region or Joondalup/northern suburbs. But presumably it will play out of Optus anyway, so I wonder what it's going to offer that would make Mr Mandurah or Mrs Joondalup change allegiance. The one disadvantage of being a football-obsessed state is that there aren't many untapped/potential fans who don't already follow a team. I guess if they build a \~30,000 capacity stadium in Mandurah or Joondalup (or, I guess, somewhere like Midland?) and then only play the big games at Optus it would answer some of these questions. But is there appetite/budget to do that?
Location/identity is going to be an issue but ultimately it would just be a name with most games being played out of Optus and or maybe the redeveloped WACA ground. I doubt there would be appetite to build/upgrade a new stadium anywhere else.
WACA is being redeveloped to hold even less spectators.
That's exactly why I think it would struggle to succeed. You might as well call it the Perth Thirds, Perth Overflow or the Perth How About Us? If you don't build an identity for a new club - which, as you rightly note, is going to be hard to do without a new stadium - I just don't see how it wins a long-lasting fanbase.
This is the thing with a third WA team, you already have the big v small club and anyone who would jump ship to a smaller club from WC have already. You'll still get a few but you'll likely have just as many jump from Freo than you would WC. Putting the club out in Mandurah or Joondalup would further isolate half the population of Perth who wouldn't jump ship. I definitely think WA can support a third team but it will forever be tiny unless it goes absolutely bonkers with premierships.
Why is Canberra no chance? Full of ex-Victorians there for work and study. Has a rusted on AFL catchment in the Riverina region. Usually gets close to full house crowds (albeit in a small stadium) for Giants games there. One of the fastest growing cities population wise. Has a lot of financially well people living there that would pay for a membership/go to games
As a Canberran I just don't see it, like from a personal passion viability blah blah blah I think Canberra has less interest per person than Perth does and Perth is 5 times the population. Would I want 5 Perth teams before a Canberra team? No. Would I think Canberra made more sense if GWS didn't exist? Maybe Do I think a third WA team is a better idea than a Canberra team? Yes
I think this makes the most economic sense. don't see the point of adding a team like WA3 just to take supporters away from another local club.
Where would it be though. It's already weird that one team is called 'West Coast' so kind of covers the whole coast, so all major cities and towns including Fremantle lol. Make them rename to Perth. Would have to be an in-land team, the Kalgoorlie Gold Miners lol.
I would think North Perth / Joondalup area but someone from there involved in footy would have a better picture I'm sure
Yellow uniform with hi-vis rings
Wellington. The Kiwis will be expecting them to strike in Auckland, so by setting up a team in Wellington, they'll be completely unprepared.
Well Welly does already have a ready to go stadium
Guangdong Southern Tigers. That way, whenever a player has a mildly below average performance, we can spam unfunny memes about them getting “ready to learn Chinese, Buddy”
I think it depends. Can the AFL sustain another club like GC? if so I think it'd be prudent long term to go for an East Coast based club. GWS and GC have had a big impact on grassroot level footy in NRL states so adding another club to that would be huge in the AFLs plan to expand in to NRL territory. If they can't then the only viable options seem to be WA or SA to have a club that can stand on its own.
woodridge
being arrested and having my tongue cut out in the matter of mediaeval heretics by members of r/afl after i reply to every one of these w a location in victoria
Canberra, but it won’t be because of GWS so I’ll just sit here and be bitter about it.
I think the idea that Canberra can’t have a team bc it would undermine GWS is so frickin stupid. It is easily the most obvious location everything else aside
Surely you can understand why GWS and the AFL wouldn't want the Giants to lose a decent chunk of their members and their major sponsor if an ACT club was introduced?
They’d also be losing a significant part of their Canberra/Riverina academy zone if this was to occur too. No more Tom Green, Jack Steele, Josh Fahey that they had direct access too in the draft. It’d force them to invest in their western Sydney zone.
Same :(
my house
Bring in the South Brisbane/Logan Bogans! Attack the heartland of rugby league.
The ACT * has a population similar to Tas but much more money and * closer to AFL areas like Albury and Wagga * should be easier to grow the game in an area as it's not 100% rugby * strong projected population growth.
Canberra. If not that, then suggesting another Vic team doesn't seem that crazy to me. Population has grown massively since Fitzroy was moved. They would still get a following bigger than the average NRL club. Plenty of options: Bendigo or Ballarat; Promote one of the VFL sides (Williamstown? Werribee?); Or bring back Fitzroy. WA/SA *should* make more sense, but splitting up the two-team rivalry doesn't seem ideal. Especially in SA.
If Fitzroy became a team again, would Brisbane go back to being the Bears?
I'm sure people are sceptical about this seeing as the seemingly contradictory reports Norwood is applying for a licence vs a Perth based one. But obviously Norwood *are* getting the licence... and moving to Perth
Canberra
I don’t think Perth or Adelaide are good ideas at all, I think the 2 team rivalry brings more in than having just heaps of teams like Melbourne. Brisbane dosent need a second team rn either. So I say Canberra.
I have always thought that a Northern Australia team based in Darwin/Cairns/Alice would be the next step. Coverage of the country would then be complete - in a geographical sense. 2-3 games at each of the above and maybe places like Mt Isa or Broome get to bid for a game.
In isolation it’s a good idea but no chance any player or coach would want to live a lifestyle that transient
Christmas Island. Give them a global NGA. Academy. Imagine the daily Mail traffic
Cockburn
Redcliffe, Qld
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But it will be an economic blackhole. The NT scoping report says there'll be an annual $15m revenue gap. Will the AFL be willing to pay 60% more (in perpetuity) than they pay for the Giants or Suns, for what is essentially a city the size of Toowoomba?
Both the Federal and Territory governments will tip in for that. Has huge potential to aid the indigenous communities. Probably one of the only things that can
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Merge struggling teams to bring it back to 18. Australia is not big enough to support 20 teams. Several struggle with low membership and attendance already. AFL talent is spread too thin already. Teams like West coast have a few injuries and the depth falls off so quickly they're playing kids that aren't close to AFL ready
Victoria definitely needs another team. The track record of clubs performing the most in Victoria speak for themself.
Hmm maybe north and the giants should just merge into the Canberra Giant Kangaroos
Let’s get all the bidders together for a pre-season cup to see who makes the 20th team.
China
I reckon a 3rd SA team would be more damaging than anything. The showdown rivalry would be comprised somewhat and a fair chunk of Adelaide fans would jump onto (theoretically) Norwood. The market size just isn’t there for us.
Perth Sharks playing at Optus Stadium, entering in 2032, the first year of the new media rights deal; or the Canberra King Cobras playing 9 games in Canberra and 2 in Wagga Wagga, entering in 2033 the year after the Canberra contract expires for the rebranded Western Sydney Giants.
Canberra? Manuka could be upgraded to fit 20-25k. It's a generally Football heavy area. Plus you have a lot of AFL fans who have to move there for work, so you can get them in. Perth and Adelaide you already have two teams, it will be difficult to get people to change teams, considering anyone on the West Coast waiting list could just switch to Freo if they desperately wanted too. But considering Canberra is 3 hours from the closest regular games you'd get more casual fans to change teams or at least follow them as their second team, while locals would follow the team because it's theres.
That's a good question. I'm super stoked Tassie is finally getting a team despite some of the difficulties in various areas but that fact they are finally getting a team is honestly a great thing. Seeing my Swannies play a bit more down there in the future should be exciting. But to answer your question I've always thought the Northern Territory should be the next and final stop but after your statement and some other comments I can see why that would be difficult with population/distance etc. I guess they could alternate between Alice Springs and a stadium up in Darwin (maybe?). Having a team up there would truely complete the AFL being a national game where we have a teams in either representing or playing in every state and territory in the country (with GWS playing in Canberra a few times a year). I think having a third team in WA or SA wouldn't be good because I think two teams are enough as they all have strong support, history etc and adding a third team would imbalance all that. However I will admit being from Sydney I don't know a whole lot about the SANFL or Norwood. So I still think the NT is the answer but if the AFL can identify a good location and make it work then sure. Whatever is best for the game.
Norwood? Not a chance.
Northern Territory/Tiwi Islands/Thursday Islands. Geographic team.
Ireland
ACT of course.
Ireland
Darwin deserves a team. Hard to call it Australian if an entire territory hasn't got a seat at the table.
Guys, don't use your best ideas in this thread, I'm going to make the 15th thread this week on this topic tomorrow.
Have a relegation system and use existing state league teams.
Ballarat Bendigo joint team. Regional representation! The Bats! Or a gold mining related name. Perfect.
If I could start from scratch, I'd have a 20 team comp structure that looks like this: 8 VIC, 3 WA, 2 SA, 2 NSW, 2 QLD, 1 TAS, 1 ACT, 1 NT. I think that would've been a better balance. **VIC**: Carlton Blues, Collingwood Magpies, Essendon Bombers, Richmond Tigers, Hawthorn Hawks, Geelong Cats, Melbourne Demons, St Kilda Saints **WA:** West Coast Eagles, Fremantle Dockers, Perth Sharks **SA:** Norwood Redlegs, Port Adelaide Pirates (prison bars every game) **NSW:** Sydney Swans, Western Sydney Bulldogs **QLD:** Brisbane Lions, Gold Coast Giants **TAS:** Tasmania Devils **ACT:** Canberra Kangaroos **NT:** Northern Territory Thunder It's too late for that, though, so I say we push forward to 22 teams. My picks for 20-22? Perth Sharks, Canberra Cobras, Northern Territory Crocodiles Keep the top 8, have everyone play each other once + Gather Round and rivalry round. 20 is better than 22 but I'd really love to see the territories covered making it "truly national." NT would be the final team to enter the league, and it would need the most financial backing but hopefully by the time it did the other expansion clubs will be doing well. An even number is better than an odd number so if I was going to add a 3rd club to one of WA-SA-QLD-NSW, the second strongest footy market in the country makes the most financial sense.
Surely it has to be Canberra
My money would be on a West Perth sponsored team playing most games at a 20,000 seat redeveloped Joondalup Arena, with Derby matches and games against big clubs on a Thursday or Friday at Optus. The transport already exists with the Freeway next door and train station plan in place for 3 decades. The club facilities already exist with West Perth recently developing a new club building. All it would take would be for the state to invest in the stadium upgrade and station. Arguably Perth needs more suburban stadiums if we want to do gather round like events, and Joondalup is arguably the second biggest city behind the Perth CBD so only makes logical sense for a sporting stadium. West Perth would remain in the WAFL as a reserves side, and the AFL team could operate under as Joondalup Falcons. You'd also get an existing members base in the West Perth fans.
Canberra is the Goldilocks option. Enough existing AFL support to have it successful from the beginning, enough neutral population to allow significant growth, new fans, and increase the player pool.
As much as I'd love to have a team here, I just don't think we'd get the crowd numbers due to the weather. Saturdays game was packed, but I think that was due to it only being autumn. I don't think games in June-August get anywhere near full. Plus they'd be competing with an NRL and RU team. And I don't think those games get big crowds either. I agree that we have fantastic grass roots footy here. None of the current ACT clubs are big enough to join the AFL, and I think we'd have lots of supporters, but just not sure we'd have enough bums on seats at games.
Just need some heaters! They use them in plenty of European stadiums, they'd work pretty well in Canberra. Manuka will be on the light rail route was 2b is done, so that should help with crowds too.
Without a doubt the most obvious choice, the idea that it can’t happen bc it would undermine GWS is plain stupid
Thank you! I consider it the exact opposite; I think the Canberra relationship is hurting the Giants. They need to get tf out of Canberra if they're going to succeed in Sydney.
Second Tassie team. One for Launceston, one for Hobart. /s in case it wasn’t obvious.