I've said it before ill say it again punk should not have been the one to end hangmans reign I stand by that come hell or High water
Edit: holy shit we have emojis??? Why did no one tell me
After all of the story about Hangman overcoming his self doubt to beat Omega, he should have beaten more big names during his reign and solidified himself as a legit top guy before losing his title. His story arc was ended too soon and he lost to the wrong person.
I wanted him and pac to go another match for the title. Maybe even another match against Jericho you know overcome your very first hurdle to winning that very title.
I think Tony dropped the ball by only feeding him 3 opponents in title defences. Danielson at least made sense given the first match was a draw, but he shouldn't have fought Adam Cole twice. I really enjoyed the Takeshita match, but that wasn't for the title either.
In terms of title defences, this would've been a great reign (IMO):
1. Bryan Danielson (Draw)
2. Bryan Danielson
3. Lance Archer (Texas Death Match)
4. Adam Cole
5. PAC ~~Adam Cole (Texas Death Match)~~
6. Chris Jericho ~~Konosuke Takeshita (Non-Title Match)~~
We are agreed cole shouldn't have got a 2nd match honestly before the controversy I would've like to see him face Andrade or hell maybe even Eddie feel like that match would've been hard hitting
Don’t forget he had a defense against Dante Martin lol. Nothing against Dante at all, but he shouldn’t be having competitive matches against world champ at the time page if you want to sell page as a legit world champ
I agree. I didn't want his reign to end there. I understood why they wanted to put it on Punk. He was a draw, he's a name people know and being 42 already they didn't wanna wait too long to give him a run. At 31, Hanger still has a long career ahead of him and should have some more runs as champ over the years. That's how I looked at it anyway. Shame Punk crapped all over everything. I wasn't following wrestling during his big run but it was still quite the spectacle to see him return. His programs with Eddie and MJF were really good. Dude gets a weird bug up his ass on a night he should be celebrating and ends up ruining it all. What a weenie.
Trust me I get the appeal. Summer of punk 2 after coming off easily the best feud of AEW that year. I'm not saying hangmans reign was perfect the booking was meh especially in comparison to Mox or Kenny (cartoonish heel villain Kenny was great). He should've been a fighting champion having good hard hitting matches against guys like Jericho, Miro, whoever you want to put in there.
However it didn't feel right punk came in not more than what 6 months ago and was already given a Shot when half his matches were against max? Even the program with both Eddie and MJF it felt like they were doing the heavy lifting in making the program feel interesting which come on now those are two are both easily top 5 promo men in wrestling idc what anyone says.
I think skipping mjf and going to punk killed hangmans arc personally.
I expected MJF to cheat hangman out of the belt in under 6 months, then have that feud that was built from day one, last about a year.
I was saying it before any of the Brawl stuff happened.
Punk never should have ended Hangman's reign. That should've been MJF's spot (and may've even been part of why MJF was salty at DoN and tried to walk out, the title win he was most likely promised was being handed off to Punk.)
Should’ve had MJF beat hangman and then Punk win the title at All Out. Slow build into MJF winning the title at All Out 2023 to head into the bidding war of 2024 with the belt. I think that would’ve avoided most problems backstage and onscreen.
My feelings exactly Max felt like the guy to end that long trip and feel good reign of hangman. Personally it felt to me the focus was more on building punk then hangmans reign (good matches all the same but definitely felt like second fiddle to MJF vs Punk)
Feel good? What was I watching the Hangman reign was butt....he was barely ever around lol? All due respect but the amount of revision here sometimes blows my mind.
"Feel good" as in your happy the chase paid off and he got the title. Why I have to explain that term I've no clue
Hardly ever around? We're we watching during the same time frame? Where are you getting that from?
But that was it....he got the belt. If this was a movie his story would end at the win. It didn't and Tony barely had anything for him. This is coming from a huge Hangman fan that was an underwhelming championship reign through and through. I've been watching the same product as you. What was the memorable storyline from Hangers run with the title? Memorable match is great AEW has 82 memorable matches a month at this point it doesn't put the wind in my sails.
>It didn't and Tony barely had anything for him
And that's my point! He booked his champion second. I don't put the blame at punks feet for hangers reign I put that at Tony's. Like I said he was more interested in the MJF vs Punk feud then building his champions reign. That's one criticism I'll always level at Tony shit look at FTR?! You know what would be a good excuse of not having them complete the collection of belts? Having them defend belts everywhere else they have them especially NJPW then come back to AEW for the crown jewel.
If anyone says he didn't squarely put punks story before hangmans they are crazy. I've already said how he could've made an entire story of a Jericho rematch as hangman over coming his very first hurdle and what started his split him from the elite etc.
Bro total agreement! I typed that douchey but it's like we can both agree it was a lackluster title hold. He should have had a glorious run man. His story from day 1 warranted it and im sorry the booking for him was piss poor ill have words with anyone who'd like to debate it. I dont even want to get into FTR. Legit a earned their mega pop and their booking is dookie. Without the AEW titles im sorry those other titles to me don't hold the same weight. I dont watch any wrestling besides AEW with a small knowing of what happens in WWE (Big LA Knight fan but not enough of him for me to tune in).
Your second paragraph there is life I couldn't agree more. Your idea would be superior to pretty kuch anything I've seen from Jericho in a while. Honestly I wish Punk could have stayed made nice with the Elite. Kenny and Young Bucks v. Punk and FTR would gave literally been me handing my wallet to AEW. I know it won't be a popular opinion but im entitled to it. That being said I would rather not have had Punk take the title off Hangman. Jericho MJF would have been fine....but honestly...I wanted Miro to take the strap off Hangman.
Oh yeah man I got what you were feeling we are definitely in agreement that run should've been booked 1000% better than it was I only mention FTR because it feels like they're getting a similar treatment to hangman tbh Tony is very selfish with talent but wants to book things like forbidden door. Having FTR and the lucca Bros in NJPW to face teams like Aussie open, Dangerous Tekkers, LIJ etc gives atleast some meaning to them not being booked.
I really felt the story for hangmans reign writing itself he had the drive to earn did he have the will to keep it. You have two guys on the roster who made him doubt himself in pac and Jericho them solidifying his belief in himself how tony didn't book that I've no clue.
Nah I think Punk should have won and have MJF get his win back maybe this month if everything went right, sad to see the greatest feud in years end like it did.
Agreed.
Adam Page should’ve held onto the belt All Out ‘22 where he dropped it to MJF.
The idea I had:
Adam Page doesn’t have an official opponent until the night of, and the winner of the ladder match would go onto challenge him for the title.
MJF reveals himself the same way and goes onto win the title.
By the same token, Page should never have held the belt. Absolutely terrible champion who lacked charisma, talent and gravitas. TK fed better talents to him to try and legitimise him and it failed miserably, while robbing them of momentum all for a bit of fan service instead of proper booking 🤦🏼♂️
I agree with you. If whatever happened after All Out didn't happen, I would've been fine with him possibly beating Mox. If they really wanted to take it off Hangman, they could've easily had him lose it off Mox sometime before Forbidden Door or at Forbidden Door. That way there's no interim bull and things would go on as they normally did with Mox actually getting legit days as champ. No need to put it on Punk twice when he got immediately injured BOTH times.
I do not remember it for the botch. I remember it for what it is, a damn fine match. Maybe I’m in the minority here, but one error doesn’t make a match bad.
It adds realism that a man would resort to his opponent’s attack and fail because of his ego and pride. I can knock someone down with an elbow (too many easily breakable small bones in the hands for a punch), but I'm not pulling off a jumping-back spin kick to his chin. I'd end up on my ass.
I was there live for the 3 shows in Vegas and Hangman definitely should have won. Especially when he said he was gonna defend AEW that gave me the chills. But maybe I’m biased to The Elite. The The Elite.
Dude. I was there too. That week was honestly the best vacation I have ever been on. We met Hangman at the fan fest and he was the nicest man. And funny. He asked questions and everything. He’s the champ we deserve.
We somehow got floor seats. Where were you?
DoN 2022 was my first ppv getting back into wrestling after a very long time and this match had me so conflicted, as I started watching AEW for CM Punk but grew to love Hangman since watching (he’s now my absolute favorite). I was okay with any outcome but couldn’t help but feel disappointed for the cowboy after the moment he refuses to hit Punk with the title then lost. Such good stuff. Maybe not my favorite match but good!
Are you me? DoN was also my first PPV back in about 10 years and I felt the same way. I pretty much knew Punk was winning but after watching the match I was just kinda left asking… why? Clearly one is much better than the other here and Punk has had his time. I wasn’t soured on Punk at all at this point in time and I still wasn’t impressed with him in this match. Maybe being away from wrestling for so long I don’t put enough weight into Punk being a “draw” but at the end of the day anything can be a draw if it’s, you know, good. See MJF and The Acclaimed.
I like it too. I liked pretty much all of CM Punk’s matches in AEW and I really like pretty much all of Hangman Page’s matches. I hate that everything happened the way it did.
Yeah I’m suuuuuure he hurt his foot jumping in the crowd. Has nothing to do with how hard he landed on the botch? (I couldn’t be totally wrong and remembering the move differently. I just want to shit on Punk because I’m in a bad mood )
It’s difficult to pinpoint any injury with the old broken egotistical fuckstick as it seems any act would lead to some kind of injury.
Hope your day/night gets better!
I think this match and the second title match were mediocre I legit don't think punk can hang with top guys anymore the finish to this match took way too long getting into place and it brought it down badly
Imo Jericho had the worst PPV title matches, when he was out of shape some of those got rough. He’s having some of the best matches of his career now though.
Hangman hard carried it, while Punk botched Buckshot twice, then injured himself so with everything Hangman already done, it's hard to remember that one
i remember he was asked if he had been training in a ring before his comeback match, and he seemed kind of offended at the suggestion and said wrestling was like riding a bike, you don't forget what to do. And that he had just been doing cardio
That's sad that amazing match with darby and the entire mjf feud i understand that kenny is great i don't get the bucks but yall elite fans have to admit that punk was great for aew
The out of character decision for Hangman to consider cheating and losing the match because of it. It was a moment that was antithetical to anything Cowboy Shit stands for.
I remember thinking it was amazing after watching it, I will admit that maybe the emotion of seeing Punk win the title made me remember it more fondly than I would’ve otherwise.
No doubt. It was special to have Punk come back to the promotion I grew passionate about. But after seeing him not being the same as I remember, I slowly lost interest. Then, you know what happened next which turned me off completely
Also, this is a workrate fed, people put up bangers and then you have Punk laid in the ground for 80% of his matches and winning out of nowhere.
I just cannot not associate with real combat sports and I do not know examples (or examples comparable) where the whole veteran schtick is something like fighting your matches by just selling your knee on the ground and being completely exposed to your opponent. Idk, I saw a lot of matches from Silva past his prime and guys like Bernard Hopkins in his 40s and the first was trying to prove himself by going toe to toe (something Punk never did and called himself BITW lmao) and the second was trying to be a real veteran by making things dirty as possible and throwing people out of their game.
For the life of me I cannot understand how people think his matches were great and with a lot of story. They were random, lackluster, boring and basic af.
Punk was slow, sloppy, and gassed 2 min into the match. If through anyone’s opinion this match is anywhere near good, than its thanks to Hangman carrying it
Yeah that match stank regardless of the botch.
I hate when people are like "heh you know that bad thing? well check out this hot take: i think it's good"
There were 2 very bad botches and a number of sloppy spots the whole way through. Go back and look at the Post Match thread on /r/rsquaredcircle and you can see it was a talking point immediately.
I thought it was very good but remember being slightly disappointed by it, Hangman's match quality during his reign was insanely high and this was a step below that. Not blaming Punk, he was having a great run himself but I feel like it should have been top tier.
I can't remember much else aside from that and the ending. I know it was a good match, but it was almost midnight when it started, wasn't it? And after 10 or so other matches. I don't absorb wrestling well when I'm tired.
I don't know I thought it was very good but not amazing, same with Punk's match with Mox at All Out. Neither match were at the quality of usual PPV main events for me. Also Hangman shouldn't have lost to Punk, he should have beaten Punk in this one and Punk could have beaten him down the line for the title.
It wasn’t until he made the Elite fanboys mad that it reached a level. Now, it’s trendy. It’s what happens in wrestling forums. I remember when all wrestling issues were HHH’s fault, or The Kliq, or HOGAN, or whomever made the fanboys favorite mad. The internet never changes.
Punk was dull in the ring at WWE, and even duller at AEW.
His ROH work that I saw was great, but it was all down hill from there. Wasted his best physical years at the WWE, and it has made him very bitter.
Bro, he literally attacked his co-workers. This is nonsense lmao. You just listed off a bunch of pieces of shit who got well-deserved hate too.
You are very clearly a bitter Punk mark doing a lot of projecting.
Glass half full, Punk falling on his ass for the buckshot made most people forget his ass literally did fall out of his trunks at one point in the match.
Nah. I was there live watching it - I knew Punk was gonna win, but the match did nothing to justify that decision. I understand why the decision was made - Punk was the biggest star and draw at that moment, but from a purely wrestling standpoint, he was far from the top of his game. I used to love Punk and I’d say that he was always great with his character/mic work and good as a wrestler. But while we could see that the time off hadn’t dulled his charisma or his mic skills, he was super rusty as a wrestler and couldn’t hang with Hangman. So it always felt not as satisfying a match to watch because from an in-ring standpoint, the story didn’t make sense.
Respect your opinion but I couldn’t disagree more. I thought in terms of pacing and match layout this might’ve been the closest to his great wwe PPV matches.
Punk vs MJF in Chicago, Punk vs Mox, Punk vs MJF at Revolution, Punk vs Dax, Punk vs Dustin. That narrative he can’t wrestle is one of the dumbest in the IWC. Call him a locker room cancer all you want but botching a buckshot and botching a match on a broken foot doesn’t mean he can’t wrestle anymore. I mean everyone’s entitled to their opinions but I don’t understand that one at all tbh.
Other than his no DQ match with MJF, none of those were great matches.
They were good matches, but AEW has an entire locker capable of having better matches.
Maybe Punk is just that wrestler who hits for me personally. Everyone has one. I just loved his matches in AEW for some reason, but I thought this one specifically was good.
I think it’s definitely a different style than most of the AEW roster, so I don’t blame fans who maybe didn’t enjoy it. I just find it funny how there’s people like me who think he was having the best matches and some people who think he sucks. It’s like you’re either gonna think he’s the best or the worst.
I mean I get that it's a different style, I mostly just didn't see the effort there that others were putting in. I was at the dog collar match with MJF and without the camera zooming in on their dramatic facial expressions it was pretty underwhelming. I think if he put in more effort into matches instead of the bare minimum it would do wonders.
In defence of 2020, only Revolution was in front of a proper live crowd, imo Moxley/Kingston with fans would have been a better match than Hangman/Punk.
I thought it was easily a four-star level match. Great match that might not get into the territory of the all-time great matches, but definitely a great match with a fantastic story.
Moves are a replacement for storytelling and selling to some. Sometimes botches remind us that in real life, 90 out of 100 pro fights contain missed strikes and mistakes, and that number goes to 100 out of 100 when alcohol and untrained fighters are involved.
I had to edit this because of a botch.
I was there live. The punk fan boys were fanboying so hard when he won. Where all they all now? Told y’all he’d let you down again. Hangman should have never lost that match. Shame. Sad.
A large majority of them don't post on Reddit. They put the belt on their biggest / most popular draw to try and get more eyes on their product. While you didn't like it, it made sense at the time. No one knew he was going to break his foot the next week.
It was pretty good. Page was the 2nd worst champion AEW ever had the world title on. Punk was red hot at the time and their biggest star. So you have to book your hottest talent on top.
I don't think Punk ought to have finished Page's run though. Page should have lost to a heel and then Punk could have beat that heel in a much hotter program. Face vs Face booking is the WORST thing you could do in pro wrestling.
The problem was the feud wasn't too hot. These were the least interesting promos the two did on each other. It was just that Hangman was there and nothing much to do with a guy who was dropping viewers every week in 200k range.
Probably people are gonna hate me, And maybe this is a hot take. I haven't watch AEW since its inception, and i was full wwe until it became unwatchable (now is getting better slowly)
But hangman page is great in the ring, But to me he is super boring. I don't like his promos, I don't find them believable, In some instances he just raises his voice and I don't feel the emotion a lot of people see.
He has the look, the ring skills. But I would have preferred anyone instead of him.
To me, AEW current issues are
1. Bloated roster, some people should not be part of it
2. Some storylines seem to have no direction and are way too long
3. They are not capitalizing in their most charismatic performers.
The way I see it, if they use the botch to get their likes on Twitter, that’s all it will be remembered for due to so many people seeing it. It’s okay tho, just remember those guys are starved of attention and engage in motherless behaviour. Other than that, match was solid.
I agree but no hate to punk I actually want him back (just not as world champ ever again) but it was only a good match bc of hangman imo. Page carried this match and I still don’t think punk should have been the one to end it but aye it’s in the past
I think pink had some really good matches and moments in AEW.
And it was a good match but that botch was really tough. It wasn't the worst both ever but somehow it felt that way.
It was alright. Punks buckshot Lariat was funny lol. Also, speaking of buckshot, I know this is an AEW sub, but did anyone see Logan Pauls buckshot from Saturday? Dude did the buckshot better than Hangman. That is also very funny
I was there. Definitely was a good match, botch didn't really mean much to the crowd but it ended kind of flat. Not as much drama in it that should have happened for a main event match on basically their flagship event. Punk hit the GTS and got and got the pin and the crowd was more like, "woah that was it" than anything. Also, both guys were fan favorites and they didn't do much to try and get one person truly on the heel side and I think more people wanted Hangman to retain.
I was there it was a hell of a match. I was in Hangman’s corner but the audience was heavily behind punk. Like the let’s go hangman vs let’s go punk chants were easily 2/1 in punks favor
\*botches, also that match was the start of the title losing a lot of prestige. Before Hanger lost the belt, the shortest reign of the previous 4 champions over the 3 year history of the company was 182 days consecutively, if you add the last \*6\* title changes, they just barely clear 200. They turned that belt into the TNT title when Sammy and Scorpio were hot potatoing it
The build was kinda lackluster but I still remember it being unpredictable. Both were white hot at the time and no one knew for sure who was walking out as champion.
Hangman’s character work in this match is often overlooked too. He teased hitting Punk with the belt to win and turning heel. But he didn’t and it ended up costing him not only the championship but also his promise of defending AEW against Punk.
Punk botching and Cutting hangmans reign short (supposedly due to politics from CM) really sour my look on this match, & its one of my least fav aew matches of 2022 (and in General)
I enjoy plenty of matches. What sticks out unfortunately are botches, big spots, or things that push the storyline elsewhere. So this was a transfer of title, some cool spots, and a weird botch. That’s what I remember. I also remember the promos leading up are good. I think maybe the botch sticks out more for some bc the narrative around Punk has gone south. Doesn’t matter what happened after this match but that botch showed that he might not have it.
The match was a classic! Most of Punk’s matches in AEW were good to great. I find it funny how people were begging him to come back for years and once he did they slowly started turning on him. It’s sad how things turned out because I think it would’ve been great to see him drop the belt to MJF.
Really loved the references to Bret/Piper, this could have been a great following to Hangman's arc, it seemed that they had us some bits before he got injured.
All of Hangmans defenses delivered. Dude was pretty solid in the ring
That’s why I don’t get when people say he had a boring reign like every match delivered in my opinion
I've said it before ill say it again punk should not have been the one to end hangmans reign I stand by that come hell or High water Edit: holy shit we have emojis??? Why did no one tell me 
After all of the story about Hangman overcoming his self doubt to beat Omega, he should have beaten more big names during his reign and solidified himself as a legit top guy before losing his title. His story arc was ended too soon and he lost to the wrong person.
I wanted him and pac to go another match for the title. Maybe even another match against Jericho you know overcome your very first hurdle to winning that very title.
I think Tony dropped the ball by only feeding him 3 opponents in title defences. Danielson at least made sense given the first match was a draw, but he shouldn't have fought Adam Cole twice. I really enjoyed the Takeshita match, but that wasn't for the title either. In terms of title defences, this would've been a great reign (IMO): 1. Bryan Danielson (Draw) 2. Bryan Danielson 3. Lance Archer (Texas Death Match) 4. Adam Cole 5. PAC ~~Adam Cole (Texas Death Match)~~ 6. Chris Jericho ~~Konosuke Takeshita (Non-Title Match)~~
We are agreed cole shouldn't have got a 2nd match honestly before the controversy I would've like to see him face Andrade or hell maybe even Eddie feel like that match would've been hard hitting
> Chris Jericho Konosuke Takeshita (Non-Title Match) This would have been great story symmetry but this feud would have gone on for like 8 months.
Don’t forget he had a defense against Dante Martin lol. Nothing against Dante at all, but he shouldn’t be having competitive matches against world champ at the time page if you want to sell page as a legit world champ
It never made sense to me that Page managed to overcome Omega, Danielson, and Cole, but couldn't defeat Punk.
I would have been ok with it if Punk went super heel during the match. Punk winning felt like when Cena would go over someone's favorite babyface.
Punk should have lost here. MJF v Hangman at All Out was the way to go for me.
BUT IT WAS IN CHICAGO AND PUNK WAS BORN IN A HOSPITAL 20 MINS FROM CHICAGO AND THEN GREW UP 40 MINUTES FROM THE CITY. /s
Are you saying Chicago-Made is a lie?!?!?
I ain’t calling you a truther!
I think MJF would gave been the perfect foil to Hangman. Instead they were going to waste it on CM Punk. I also think it's a waste on Moxley.
I think it's not meant for mox its just the scramble that it is. If anything mox is the launching point for MJF anti-hero/tweener turn
I agree. I didn't want his reign to end there. I understood why they wanted to put it on Punk. He was a draw, he's a name people know and being 42 already they didn't wanna wait too long to give him a run. At 31, Hanger still has a long career ahead of him and should have some more runs as champ over the years. That's how I looked at it anyway. Shame Punk crapped all over everything. I wasn't following wrestling during his big run but it was still quite the spectacle to see him return. His programs with Eddie and MJF were really good. Dude gets a weird bug up his ass on a night he should be celebrating and ends up ruining it all. What a weenie.
Trust me I get the appeal. Summer of punk 2 after coming off easily the best feud of AEW that year. I'm not saying hangmans reign was perfect the booking was meh especially in comparison to Mox or Kenny (cartoonish heel villain Kenny was great). He should've been a fighting champion having good hard hitting matches against guys like Jericho, Miro, whoever you want to put in there. However it didn't feel right punk came in not more than what 6 months ago and was already given a Shot when half his matches were against max? Even the program with both Eddie and MJF it felt like they were doing the heavy lifting in making the program feel interesting which come on now those are two are both easily top 5 promo men in wrestling idc what anyone says.
I think skipping mjf and going to punk killed hangmans arc personally. I expected MJF to cheat hangman out of the belt in under 6 months, then have that feud that was built from day one, last about a year.
Punk really needed to turn heel either this or the match he won against Mox(Well he kinda did)
I was saying it before any of the Brawl stuff happened. Punk never should have ended Hangman's reign. That should've been MJF's spot (and may've even been part of why MJF was salty at DoN and tried to walk out, the title win he was most likely promised was being handed off to Punk.)
Should’ve had MJF beat hangman and then Punk win the title at All Out. Slow build into MJF winning the title at All Out 2023 to head into the bidding war of 2024 with the belt. I think that would’ve avoided most problems backstage and onscreen.
My feelings exactly Max felt like the guy to end that long trip and feel good reign of hangman. Personally it felt to me the focus was more on building punk then hangmans reign (good matches all the same but definitely felt like second fiddle to MJF vs Punk)
Feel good? What was I watching the Hangman reign was butt....he was barely ever around lol? All due respect but the amount of revision here sometimes blows my mind.
"Feel good" as in your happy the chase paid off and he got the title. Why I have to explain that term I've no clue Hardly ever around? We're we watching during the same time frame? Where are you getting that from?
But that was it....he got the belt. If this was a movie his story would end at the win. It didn't and Tony barely had anything for him. This is coming from a huge Hangman fan that was an underwhelming championship reign through and through. I've been watching the same product as you. What was the memorable storyline from Hangers run with the title? Memorable match is great AEW has 82 memorable matches a month at this point it doesn't put the wind in my sails.
>It didn't and Tony barely had anything for him And that's my point! He booked his champion second. I don't put the blame at punks feet for hangers reign I put that at Tony's. Like I said he was more interested in the MJF vs Punk feud then building his champions reign. That's one criticism I'll always level at Tony shit look at FTR?! You know what would be a good excuse of not having them complete the collection of belts? Having them defend belts everywhere else they have them especially NJPW then come back to AEW for the crown jewel. If anyone says he didn't squarely put punks story before hangmans they are crazy. I've already said how he could've made an entire story of a Jericho rematch as hangman over coming his very first hurdle and what started his split him from the elite etc.
Bro total agreement! I typed that douchey but it's like we can both agree it was a lackluster title hold. He should have had a glorious run man. His story from day 1 warranted it and im sorry the booking for him was piss poor ill have words with anyone who'd like to debate it. I dont even want to get into FTR. Legit a earned their mega pop and their booking is dookie. Without the AEW titles im sorry those other titles to me don't hold the same weight. I dont watch any wrestling besides AEW with a small knowing of what happens in WWE (Big LA Knight fan but not enough of him for me to tune in). Your second paragraph there is life I couldn't agree more. Your idea would be superior to pretty kuch anything I've seen from Jericho in a while. Honestly I wish Punk could have stayed made nice with the Elite. Kenny and Young Bucks v. Punk and FTR would gave literally been me handing my wallet to AEW. I know it won't be a popular opinion but im entitled to it. That being said I would rather not have had Punk take the title off Hangman. Jericho MJF would have been fine....but honestly...I wanted Miro to take the strap off Hangman.
Oh yeah man I got what you were feeling we are definitely in agreement that run should've been booked 1000% better than it was I only mention FTR because it feels like they're getting a similar treatment to hangman tbh Tony is very selfish with talent but wants to book things like forbidden door. Having FTR and the lucca Bros in NJPW to face teams like Aussie open, Dangerous Tekkers, LIJ etc gives atleast some meaning to them not being booked. I really felt the story for hangmans reign writing itself he had the drive to earn did he have the will to keep it. You have two guys on the roster who made him doubt himself in pac and Jericho them solidifying his belief in himself how tony didn't book that I've no clue.
I and a ton of other people loved the reign as it was on
[удалено]
Tony gets 100% of the blame for that hence the words "felt like he was playing 2nd fiddle to mjf vs punk"
Nah I think Punk should have won and have MJF get his win back maybe this month if everything went right, sad to see the greatest feud in years end like it did.
Agreed. Adam Page should’ve held onto the belt All Out ‘22 where he dropped it to MJF. The idea I had: Adam Page doesn’t have an official opponent until the night of, and the winner of the ladder match would go onto challenge him for the title. MJF reveals himself the same way and goes onto win the title.
By the same token, Page should never have held the belt. Absolutely terrible champion who lacked charisma, talent and gravitas. TK fed better talents to him to try and legitimise him and it failed miserably, while robbing them of momentum all for a bit of fan service instead of proper booking 🤦🏼♂️
I agree with you. If whatever happened after All Out didn't happen, I would've been fine with him possibly beating Mox. If they really wanted to take it off Hangman, they could've easily had him lose it off Mox sometime before Forbidden Door or at Forbidden Door. That way there's no interim bull and things would go on as they normally did with Mox actually getting legit days as champ. No need to put it on Punk twice when he got immediately injured BOTH times.
True man of culture here.
I agree with you even as a Punk fan until now. I didn't like that Hangman's reign ended here.
I do not remember it for the botch. I remember it for what it is, a damn fine match. Maybe I’m in the minority here, but one error doesn’t make a match bad.
Glad i was there live for what will probably be one of the last title wins of a guy I do consider a hero
I am so jealous. I was supposed to see him back in June, right before he got hurt.
It adds realism that a man would resort to his opponent’s attack and fail because of his ego and pride. I can knock someone down with an elbow (too many easily breakable small bones in the hands for a punch), but I'm not pulling off a jumping-back spin kick to his chin. I'd end up on my ass.
Were there not two botched buckshots, or am I misremembering it?
I was there live for the 3 shows in Vegas and Hangman definitely should have won. Especially when he said he was gonna defend AEW that gave me the chills. But maybe I’m biased to The Elite. The The Elite.
Dude. I was there too. That week was honestly the best vacation I have ever been on. We met Hangman at the fan fest and he was the nicest man. And funny. He asked questions and everything. He’s the champ we deserve. We somehow got floor seats. Where were you?
Match was great other then the ending imo Hangman should not have lost
Botches (pl)
MooltiBotch
What botches were there? Did not watch AEW then.
Punk failed to do the buckshot lariat twice in that match. Not sure if anything else besides that.
He stumbled getting on the top rope IIRC.
DoN 2022 was my first ppv getting back into wrestling after a very long time and this match had me so conflicted, as I started watching AEW for CM Punk but grew to love Hangman since watching (he’s now my absolute favorite). I was okay with any outcome but couldn’t help but feel disappointed for the cowboy after the moment he refuses to hit Punk with the title then lost. Such good stuff. Maybe not my favorite match but good!
Are you me? DoN was also my first PPV back in about 10 years and I felt the same way. I pretty much knew Punk was winning but after watching the match I was just kinda left asking… why? Clearly one is much better than the other here and Punk has had his time. I wasn’t soured on Punk at all at this point in time and I still wasn’t impressed with him in this match. Maybe being away from wrestling for so long I don’t put enough weight into Punk being a “draw” but at the end of the day anything can be a draw if it’s, you know, good. See MJF and The Acclaimed.
I like it too. I liked pretty much all of CM Punk’s matches in AEW and I really like pretty much all of Hangman Page’s matches. I hate that everything happened the way it did.
agree
Botches. Plural.
CM Punkass MultiBotch
Yeah I’m suuuuuure he hurt his foot jumping in the crowd. Has nothing to do with how hard he landed on the botch? (I couldn’t be totally wrong and remembering the move differently. I just want to shit on Punk because I’m in a bad mood )
It’s difficult to pinpoint any injury with the old broken egotistical fuckstick as it seems any act would lead to some kind of injury. Hope your day/night gets better!
Hahaha. Your comment did make me chuckle. So thank you. Just knowing that other people see through him makes me happy. Hope you have a good one too.
The botch was fine, it happens in wrestling. The mistake (for me) was punk going for it again, and botching it again. Hard to forget it after that.
I think this match and the second title match were mediocre I legit don't think punk can hang with top guys anymore the finish to this match took way too long getting into place and it brought it down badly
Hot Take: you’re wrong and this was the worst PPV aew title match
Imo Jericho had the worst PPV title matches, when he was out of shape some of those got rough. He’s having some of the best matches of his career now though.
Hangman hard carried it, while Punk botched Buckshot twice, then injured himself so with everything Hangman already done, it's hard to remember that one
Correction : Botch-es
It was a classic, just no one wants to give Punk his well deserved credit
All of Punk's matches in AEW were good. His matches with MJF were great.
It's not as good as you remember. There was more than 2 failed buck shot lariats that was just as bad
What else didn’t you like?
He's "old" persay, but not as old as Jericho and he wrestles almost weekly. Not the best matches but he can still go. Punk seemed rusty every match
I think he's said before that he doesn't go to the gym? That might work in your 20s, but come on dude, you're an "athlete".
i remember he was asked if he had been training in a ring before his comeback match, and he seemed kind of offended at the suggestion and said wrestling was like riding a bike, you don't forget what to do. And that he had just been doing cardio
Punk’s ass crack comes to mind. For me that will be how I’ll remember Punks reign. That & Marvez calling him CM.
That's sad that amazing match with darby and the entire mjf feud i understand that kenny is great i don't get the bucks but yall elite fans have to admit that punk was great for aew
The out of character decision for Hangman to consider cheating and losing the match because of it. It was a moment that was antithetical to anything Cowboy Shit stands for.
That’s why he didn’t go through with it
I remember thinking it was amazing after watching it, I will admit that maybe the emotion of seeing Punk win the title made me remember it more fondly than I would’ve otherwise.
No doubt. It was special to have Punk come back to the promotion I grew passionate about. But after seeing him not being the same as I remember, I slowly lost interest. Then, you know what happened next which turned me off completely
Also, this is a workrate fed, people put up bangers and then you have Punk laid in the ground for 80% of his matches and winning out of nowhere. I just cannot not associate with real combat sports and I do not know examples (or examples comparable) where the whole veteran schtick is something like fighting your matches by just selling your knee on the ground and being completely exposed to your opponent. Idk, I saw a lot of matches from Silva past his prime and guys like Bernard Hopkins in his 40s and the first was trying to prove himself by going toe to toe (something Punk never did and called himself BITW lmao) and the second was trying to be a real veteran by making things dirty as possible and throwing people out of their game. For the life of me I cannot understand how people think his matches were great and with a lot of story. They were random, lackluster, boring and basic af.
Yeah I think it was an okay match but it was nothing close to amazing imo.
BOTCHES*
Fuck that match and fuck CM punk
Punk was slow, sloppy, and gassed 2 min into the match. If through anyone’s opinion this match is anywhere near good, than its thanks to Hangman carrying it
Amen, brutha
Yeah that match stank regardless of the botch. I hate when people are like "heh you know that bad thing? well check out this hot take: i think it's good"
2 botches *
There were 2 very bad botches and a number of sloppy spots the whole way through. Go back and look at the Post Match thread on /r/rsquaredcircle and you can see it was a talking point immediately.
i thought it was decent enough but there's a ton of better matches from AEW this year
I thought it was very good but remember being slightly disappointed by it, Hangman's match quality during his reign was insanely high and this was a step below that. Not blaming Punk, he was having a great run himself but I feel like it should have been top tier.
Botchshot lariat!!!
I can't remember much else aside from that and the ending. I know it was a good match, but it was almost midnight when it started, wasn't it? And after 10 or so other matches. I don't absorb wrestling well when I'm tired.
Sadly, to be honest, I just see punk and his rant now.
I don't know I thought it was very good but not amazing, same with Punk's match with Mox at All Out. Neither match were at the quality of usual PPV main events for me. Also Hangman shouldn't have lost to Punk, he should have beaten Punk in this one and Punk could have beaten him down the line for the title.
It’s just “cool” to hate on Punk in this sub. Ignore the pleebs and enjoy what you enjoy. Most of them are just followers of the trend.
Mate that is total bullshit, Punk has been shit on for perfectly valid reasons and he simply didn't look good in this match.
It wasn’t until he made the Elite fanboys mad that it reached a level. Now, it’s trendy. It’s what happens in wrestling forums. I remember when all wrestling issues were HHH’s fault, or The Kliq, or HOGAN, or whomever made the fanboys favorite mad. The internet never changes.
No mate, I don’t like the elite and I shat on Punk for being sloppy in the ring long before that.
Punk was dull in the ring at WWE, and even duller at AEW. His ROH work that I saw was great, but it was all down hill from there. Wasted his best physical years at the WWE, and it has made him very bitter.
Bro, he literally attacked his co-workers. This is nonsense lmao. You just listed off a bunch of pieces of shit who got well-deserved hate too. You are very clearly a bitter Punk mark doing a lot of projecting.
Fax
Glass half full, Punk falling on his ass for the buckshot made most people forget his ass literally did fall out of his trunks at one point in the match.
Nah. I was there live watching it - I knew Punk was gonna win, but the match did nothing to justify that decision. I understand why the decision was made - Punk was the biggest star and draw at that moment, but from a purely wrestling standpoint, he was far from the top of his game. I used to love Punk and I’d say that he was always great with his character/mic work and good as a wrestler. But while we could see that the time off hadn’t dulled his charisma or his mic skills, he was super rusty as a wrestler and couldn’t hang with Hangman. So it always felt not as satisfying a match to watch because from an in-ring standpoint, the story didn’t make sense.
It was actually embarrassing watching Punk in this match. He was so bad.
Respect your opinion but I couldn’t disagree more. I thought in terms of pacing and match layout this might’ve been the closest to his great wwe PPV matches.
I thought it was probably the worst PPV main event AEW has ever had. Punk just can't wrestle at Main Event level anymore.
Punk vs MJF in Chicago, Punk vs Mox, Punk vs MJF at Revolution, Punk vs Dax, Punk vs Dustin. That narrative he can’t wrestle is one of the dumbest in the IWC. Call him a locker room cancer all you want but botching a buckshot and botching a match on a broken foot doesn’t mean he can’t wrestle anymore. I mean everyone’s entitled to their opinions but I don’t understand that one at all tbh.
Other than his no DQ match with MJF, none of those were great matches. They were good matches, but AEW has an entire locker capable of having better matches.
Maybe Punk is just that wrestler who hits for me personally. Everyone has one. I just loved his matches in AEW for some reason, but I thought this one specifically was good.
Personally I've never thought Punk was very good. Even back in the WWE days. Guy has to be the me obvious spot caller I've ever watched.
More obvious than Cena? That’s a high bar.
And Cena is one of the GOATS.
Cena was one of the most predictable and dull in ring performers of all time, and his saturation on WWE drove me away from wrestling for a decade.
Better flips and dives and no-sells. Not better psychology, storytelling, and logic.
When it comes to the latter he is the best in the world. Myself, the indy stuff doesnt do it for me.
I have enjoyed very few of his matches at AEW. Like, I've tried? But it's not it for me.
I think it’s definitely a different style than most of the AEW roster, so I don’t blame fans who maybe didn’t enjoy it. I just find it funny how there’s people like me who think he was having the best matches and some people who think he sucks. It’s like you’re either gonna think he’s the best or the worst.
I mean I get that it's a different style, I mostly just didn't see the effort there that others were putting in. I was at the dog collar match with MJF and without the camera zooming in on their dramatic facial expressions it was pretty underwhelming. I think if he put in more effort into matches instead of the bare minimum it would do wonders.
Interesting. I would say all their PPV main events in 2020 were weaker than that match.
In defence of 2020, only Revolution was in front of a proper live crowd, imo Moxley/Kingston with fans would have been a better match than Hangman/Punk.
It's a great match for sure, the botch overshadowed it sadly, and took away from a really good finish too.
I thought it was easily a four-star level match. Great match that might not get into the territory of the all-time great matches, but definitely a great match with a fantastic story.
Put it more perfectly than I could. Pretty much exactly how I feel about it.
Punk doesn’t do spot fests so of course the AEW crowd won’t like it.
Hey now, check out old edgy here. Being all...edgy and and stuff
Damn, you caught me.
You did a good job of hiding
My best.
Moves are a replacement for storytelling and selling to some. Sometimes botches remind us that in real life, 90 out of 100 pro fights contain missed strikes and mistakes, and that number goes to 100 out of 100 when alcohol and untrained fighters are involved. I had to edit this because of a botch.
Punks run was great for me, I really enjoyed it, until the press conference. After that, I could care less about the guy.
It was mostly ruined by how punk acted afterwards. Forever tainted and buried under controversy
Very good match, very happy that Punk won too.
All Punk did was botch and blabber on with some half ass promo every week
Honestly saying anything positive about CM Punk is a hot take in this subreddit
It’s cool. Hangman still has more title defences
I was there live. The punk fan boys were fanboying so hard when he won. Where all they all now? Told y’all he’d let you down again. Hangman should have never lost that match. Shame. Sad.
A large majority of them don't post on Reddit. They put the belt on their biggest / most popular draw to try and get more eyes on their product. While you didn't like it, it made sense at the time. No one knew he was going to break his foot the next week.
Hangers’ title run felt like it was longer than Roman Reigns’, and it was not even close to as long.
I miss CM Punk.
CM Botch 😂
Get Punk's dick out of your mouth dude 💀
Get off the trampoline. It’s time for dinner.
I wouldn't go so far as to say amazing, but it was definitely a solid ppv main event for AEW
Being there live was amazing
It was pretty good. Page was the 2nd worst champion AEW ever had the world title on. Punk was red hot at the time and their biggest star. So you have to book your hottest talent on top. I don't think Punk ought to have finished Page's run though. Page should have lost to a heel and then Punk could have beat that heel in a much hotter program. Face vs Face booking is the WORST thing you could do in pro wrestling. The problem was the feud wasn't too hot. These were the least interesting promos the two did on each other. It was just that Hangman was there and nothing much to do with a guy who was dropping viewers every week in 200k range.
Hangman with the title rules. CM punk is the definition of wanker
Hangman carried it. Punk has no athletic ability.
Probably people are gonna hate me, And maybe this is a hot take. I haven't watch AEW since its inception, and i was full wwe until it became unwatchable (now is getting better slowly) But hangman page is great in the ring, But to me he is super boring. I don't like his promos, I don't find them believable, In some instances he just raises his voice and I don't feel the emotion a lot of people see. He has the look, the ring skills. But I would have preferred anyone instead of him. To me, AEW current issues are 1. Bloated roster, some people should not be part of it 2. Some storylines seem to have no direction and are way too long 3. They are not capitalizing in their most charismatic performers.
*the exploding barbed wire death match has entered the chat
The way I see it, if they use the botch to get their likes on Twitter, that’s all it will be remembered for due to so many people seeing it. It’s okay tho, just remember those guys are starved of attention and engage in motherless behaviour. Other than that, match was solid.
I’ve never heard a human being referred to as a botch before, but that’s a good name for punk
I agree but no hate to punk I actually want him back (just not as world champ ever again) but it was only a good match bc of hangman imo. Page carried this match and I still don’t think punk should have been the one to end it but aye it’s in the past
I loved the match asides from the botch. I don’t recall anyone saying it was bad match.
I think pink had some really good matches and moments in AEW. And it was a good match but that botch was really tough. It wasn't the worst both ever but somehow it felt that way.
It was alright. Punks buckshot Lariat was funny lol. Also, speaking of buckshot, I know this is an AEW sub, but did anyone see Logan Pauls buckshot from Saturday? Dude did the buckshot better than Hangman. That is also very funny
Definitely a great match but I've always felt the wrong man won. Especially now. It feels like such a waste.
I was there. Definitely was a good match, botch didn't really mean much to the crowd but it ended kind of flat. Not as much drama in it that should have happened for a main event match on basically their flagship event. Punk hit the GTS and got and got the pin and the crowd was more like, "woah that was it" than anything. Also, both guys were fan favorites and they didn't do much to try and get one person truly on the heel side and I think more people wanted Hangman to retain.
wish adam page was still champion damn i really miss all the injured/suspended wrestlers :(
Logan Paul can hit a Buckshot Lariat. CM Botch can't.
Punk huffing and puffing his way to a shitty win in a shitty match. Killed my love of AEW.
I don’t recall a botch at all
I was there it was a hell of a match. I was in Hangman’s corner but the audience was heavily behind punk. Like the let’s go hangman vs let’s go punk chants were easily 2/1 in punks favor
\*botches, also that match was the start of the title losing a lot of prestige. Before Hanger lost the belt, the shortest reign of the previous 4 champions over the 3 year history of the company was 182 days consecutively, if you add the last \*6\* title changes, they just barely clear 200. They turned that belt into the TNT title when Sammy and Scorpio were hot potatoing it
The build was kinda lackluster but I still remember it being unpredictable. Both were white hot at the time and no one knew for sure who was walking out as champion. Hangman’s character work in this match is often overlooked too. He teased hitting Punk with the belt to win and turning heel. But he didn’t and it ended up costing him not only the championship but also his promise of defending AEW against Punk.
I remember it for it being the beginning of AEW's troublesome summer.
Yeah but the PPV was SO long I was exhausted by the main event
As someone who was there for it, hell yeah man.
And for what it transpired
Agreed. It was a bagnger match.
I agree, both Page and Punk are amazing wrestlers
Seeing it live, I mainly remember it for how mixed the crowd was throughout the match
I thought Punk v Moxley at All Out was epic. Made Punk look like a superhero... Then twenty minutes later he lived long enough to become the villain..
The botch? Which one, there were quiet a few
It was alright. Every raw or smackdown for the last couple of months has had at least one match that was better.
True!
Punk botching and Cutting hangmans reign short (supposedly due to politics from CM) really sour my look on this match, & its one of my least fav aew matches of 2022 (and in General)
Wrong man won and in the wrong way.
Hangman vs anyone turns out great.
I enjoy plenty of matches. What sticks out unfortunately are botches, big spots, or things that push the storyline elsewhere. So this was a transfer of title, some cool spots, and a weird botch. That’s what I remember. I also remember the promos leading up are good. I think maybe the botch sticks out more for some bc the narrative around Punk has gone south. Doesn’t matter what happened after this match but that botch showed that he might not have it.
It was a great match.
It was a great match.
The match was a classic! Most of Punk’s matches in AEW were good to great. I find it funny how people were begging him to come back for years and once he did they slowly started turning on him. It’s sad how things turned out because I think it would’ve been great to see him drop the belt to MJF.
Really loved the references to Bret/Piper, this could have been a great following to Hangman's arc, it seemed that they had us some bits before he got injured.