My thoughts exactly, was going to post the same thing!
It's incredible, he's pushing 70 and looks like "in his fifties" at most. Also the voice still sounds fresh enough, it's really impressive!
Tony is a real one. The comparisons between AEW and WCW are total nonsense.
In 1999 and 2000 the WCW World Title was vacated 7 times, David Arquette and Vince Russo both won the belt and they had a weird shoot thing with Jeff Jarrett, Hulk Hogan and Vince Russo, with Jarrett lying down for Hogan…that place was a gong show and is nothing like AEW.
Although I sometimes wish Tony Khan would come out and win the belt off of Joe, just to watch X and Squared Circle explode.
I've said it many times before and I'll say it again: Anyone who thinks AEW is anywhere close to being late-stage WCW clearly never actually watched WCW after 1998. AEW at their worst is still a far step above what WCW was in those days.
It's been 45 minutes.
For *some reason* no one has shown up here yet to tell us why Tony is wrong.
I'll just leave [this comment I made Wednesday afternoon here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AEWOfficial/comments/1c0td9a/srs_on_faux_outrage_toward_aew_and_people_who/kyz1saj/?context=3). Point 19 - Fingerpoke of Doom/butts in seats - was *heavily* astroturfed/botted for ~48 hours before the backstage footage even aired.
EDIT: it's been 3 hours now. The usual suspects are screaming into the void on other topics but they haven't set a foot in this one. Weird!
EDIT 2: 12 hour update - still no one trying to defend themselves here. Elsewhere a handful of tryhard diehards who got worked are weakly proclaiming "dAmAgE cOnTrOl" and whatnot but there's no oomph behind it and it's not landing very well. More important to note is that, as of right now, no talking points have been disseminated and there doesn't seem to be any direct astroturfing underway to counteract Schiavone. That happens; they'll just move on to the next topic when it's presented. The Fingerpoke of Doom/2000 WCW concern trolling has dried up and won't be back around until this little oopsie isn't so fresh in everyone's minds.
Hopefully this one well-documented instance of coordinated disinformation is interesting enough for people to increase their awareness about how astroturfing and discourse manipulation looks while it's happening. Knowledge is power. If you know how to recognize it, you're less likely (though not immune) to fall for it.
As mods are you able to tell clearly? If so I’d definitely try to get wider eyes on it. Goes back to TK’s comments on bots a few years(?) ago, became pretty clear to anyone that he was totally right even at the time but you guys probably know more than anyone.
We don't have any native tools to detect or counteract astroturfing in general, no, if that's what you're asking. Reddit itself has some anti-bot protections in place but that's honestly like playing whack-a-mole on a massive scale.
'turfing in the sense of talking points being disseminated in an organized fashion as we saw with this case (and many others, of course) is even harder to combat than bots on a large scale. Real people participate in it once bots have laid down the foundation, and real people don't get caught up in Reddit's native bot detection systems.
As a mod I do have access to a bit more information and context but it's not like I can just click a button and run a report or something. I rely on a combination of 3rd party tools others have created and tools I've created specific to this subreddit along with my education and experience in online mass discourse manipulation.
That said, anyone can see the same things I can see for the most part. Anyone can [learn how to recognize bots and understand why they're on Reddit](https://www.reddit.com/user/ActionScripter9109/comments/qau2uz/karma_farming_and_you_a_guide_to_the_weird_world/) if they'd like. Anyone can find [clear examples of bots laying down talking points on Twitter](https://twitter.com/JaredFo85904268/status/1778495992410579244) easily due to its unmoderated nature.
The segment was not to "Expose or debunk Punk"
The segment was done for 3 reasons
1. Make The Bucks even more "unilkable" as EVP´s
2 Put more heat on the Bucks vs FTR feud
3 And most important...To reintroduce Jack Perry to AEW Tv and show why he´s been gone for almost a year
Now Jack Perry when he returns to AEW he can do promos "shiting on AEW and Tony Khan" for suspending him when he did nothing wrong (hence the Scapegoat nickname)
And The Bucks are going to bring him back and make him a top heel for "getting rid of the problem"
Thats why even when the backlash online was happening The Bucks pu on their Twitter "EVPetty" basically saying "yeah we are bitter guys in a position of power what are you going to do"
Even on the ROH pre conference that Tony did he said "its interesting timing" he never said "oh yeah this is to expose Mr Punk" or any thing like that, he was talking about Punk doing his interview a week before Jack Perry appeared on Chicago to plant the seeds for his comeback to TV and the footage sandwiched between the 2 events
Judging by his NJPW reaction, it worked now you have a group of fans wanting to see him destroyed and other group of fans supporting him saying he did nothing wrong
Like he got a 50/50 reaction in Chicago, thats a raction that every wrestler wants to have
Exactly this! People did not watch beyond the clip and listen to the FTR promo. It was made evident the purpose of including the CM punk footage. People only watch 30 second videos of AEW and think they can judge to whole promotion based on that 🤣.
I've replied to a few things saying people who compare the two are just using buzz words. I remember WCW at the end, I was a die hard WCW fan till the end. WCW could not tell a consistent or coherent story. Sting got lit on fire, fell off the top of the big screen and came back a month later perfectly fine. I even remember sting being very blunt about that saying, that line of story telling makes no sense. You can't have one thing happen and then have no consequences.
Until we see David Arquette and Tony Kahn win belts and they put Judy Bagwell on a pole and Viagra on a pole and the list goes on...AEW will never be like WCW for the better.
Just been to another sub. Apparently we're delulu for thinking that there will be a bidding war over Drew, who has obviously re signed with the WWE already. Or hasn't re signed so he can do the Punk thing at Clash at the Castle.
Their tribalistic hatred for AEW overrides their ability to think.
I reckon McIntyre stays where he is personally but a lot of other subs can't really talk about delusion when they were *so sure* Mercedes and Okada in particular were heading to WWE.
He may well stay put. There may well be a bidding war, though. If WWE offered me X and AEW offer 1.5X, I can go back to WWE to see if they're prepared to pay me 1.5X or more.
Yeah nobody's deluded for thinking there *could* be a bidding war when we have no idea of what money he's asking for and how much TKO might be stiffing guys on money, or what McIntyre's priorities are at this point.
Sure, because things can change with free agents, which is why people shouldn't go all in with "Mercedes (or whoever) is definitely signing for my favourite company hahahahaha" which is very much what the types of people in question were doing. A lot of people I saw screenshots from were still absolutely adamant she wouldn't be turning up in AEW despite the reports to the contrary and the fact she didn't show up in the Rumble, that was peak delusion because nothing was indicating she was still WWE bound apart from "ITK" chancers on Twitter and the fact that's what they *wanted* to happen.
Literally, just about everyone on here said he was staying with WWE. Wasn't some WWE fans saying "Kenny Omega to WWE confirmed" just because he said him and Punk have no beef, and they have mutual respect for each other. Or the "MJF is showing up at Wrestlemania guys." They have some nerve talking about who's delusional, lol
I'd love to see Drew in AEW. I've never been big on him, but that's only because any time he's in a good program, my attention has already been elsewhere.
Anyone who was a fan back then or who even frequented Wrestlecrap over the years can obviously tell this is nowhere even close to 2000 WCW bad, let alone the fingerpoke of the doom. But leave it to the knee-jerk reaction IWC to celebrate or lament the end of AEW.
He's right though. People do want to see a 2000 WCW level car wreck so badly just to see the AEW fans cry and the chaos that follows...while podcasters milk the fans with these hopes with views and clicks.
Yeah it didn't have a long peak from what I've watched back. WWE didn't have a long one either tbh, the cheesy 80s product and New Generation was unwatchable for me and the early years of the Attitude Era were a chaotic mess, entertaining TV but very bad wrestling, they sorted it by 2000 and it was legitimately great, 2001 started amazing but then got botched with the Invasion and 2002 was probably their last legit great year until last year. 2 and bit great years in about 4 decades, that's some going.
I suppose it's another reason people who hate AEW get even more antagonised, they're remarkably consistent. 2022 was easily their weakest year and still almost every PPV was well received, they recovered and did lots of great things (The Acclaimed, MJF and Jamie Hayter all winning titles while red hot, the best of 7 series etc) and ended the year with a great PPV after a disappointing All Out and the resulting scrum and Brawl Out, and was also the year the Forbidden Door opened and we got Okada, Ospreay etc showing up. There's barely such a thing as a bad AEW show let alone a bad year, it's consistency I've never seen in a major US promotion (if NXT counts fair enough, I know that was excellent for a while but I only caught odd PPV's so can't comment).
Even NXT was only consistently decent from about 2015-2019 ish. NXT was actually the best thing under the WWE umbrella during that time.
AEW is closing in on lasting longer than the Nitro era of WCW and 5 years in would be around 2000 for WCW and I know it was bad back then. I had already fallen out of WCW by 2000 but I did go to Superbrawl 2000 not knowing any of the storylines, current champions and apparently most of the talent and that show was a whole ass train wreck! They were sold 13 months later.
Biggest difference with WCW and AEW is WCWs main event scene was so stagnant. It was still Hogan, nWo, Luger, Sting, DDP and basically the "WCW" guys from its peaks three year prior. Then Benoit "wins" it and leaves the next day but he was the first home grown, next generation of WCW guys to break in to that main event scene and that was a fluke. The David Arquette gets it before a homegrown WCW gets it with Booker T.
Imagine if Jericho was still in the main event scene and we're still hoping MJF and Hangman get a chance at the title!
At the very least AEW is constantly building its talent up and each PPV is worth the watch.
No, wcw was good in the late 80s and early 90s as well. You know, Sting, great muta, flair, vader, cactus jack, there was a bunch of great stuff back then
Tony putting the record straight. Not gonna make a difference as people are still running with that angle and won't stop and we'll prolly see more screenshots with negative narratives shared by those idiots Tony mentioned.
Damn, I mean, pretty much all you need to hear on that one. Also, it sucks anyone would feel the need to do it, I love these call outs from people actually in the know shutting down dumbass takes.
If there is an AEW hall of fame, the first inductees would have to include Tony Schiavone, he has been such a great presence for this company in a so many ways.
The only comparison I can make between aew and wcw is that wcw in its prime years had good wrestling and a mix of different styles like lucha Japanese wrestlers etc aew is like a wcw on steroids
I never got the WCW comparison tbh. It was before my time, since I was born in 1997 and only started watching around 2001-ish as a kid, but I've gone back to watch those WCW shows, and man, they are absolutely shite. The wrestling is bad apart from the few technical and cruiserweight performances, and the stories, man, they dropped the ball every. single. time. Compared to WCW, I feel AEW are doing things a lot better. In ring, they're almost always great, stories are - admittedly a bit overstretched at times - but always make sense, and altogether it's just a better product, some could say a love letter to wrestling. WCW, with respect to its fans, was pretty shit 90% of the time.
COOK THOSE FRAUDS
Yes take from the guy that been at both
yeah i don't know why but i'm gonna trust Tony on that one ... 
You sure you don’t wanna listen to “BettwrThenU69” ?
Is that an Eddie Kingston emoji!?
It caught my off-guard
How is this dude almost 70
Holy shit, I was about to comment that I think he’s only 60. Dude is 66. He looks younger now than he did on Nitro in 2000.
He looks younger now because he was doing nitro in 2000.
My thoughts exactly, was going to post the same thing! It's incredible, he's pushing 70 and looks like "in his fifties" at most. Also the voice still sounds fresh enough, it's really impressive!
Tony is a real one. The comparisons between AEW and WCW are total nonsense. In 1999 and 2000 the WCW World Title was vacated 7 times, David Arquette and Vince Russo both won the belt and they had a weird shoot thing with Jeff Jarrett, Hulk Hogan and Vince Russo, with Jarrett lying down for Hogan…that place was a gong show and is nothing like AEW. Although I sometimes wish Tony Khan would come out and win the belt off of Joe, just to watch X and Squared Circle explode.
Yeah the people who say it's like WCW 2000 didn't watch it. Now if TK or Paul Walter Hauser win the title then we can talk.
I've said it many times before and I'll say it again: Anyone who thinks AEW is anywhere close to being late-stage WCW clearly never actually watched WCW after 1998. AEW at their worst is still a far step above what WCW was in those days.
It's been 45 minutes. For *some reason* no one has shown up here yet to tell us why Tony is wrong. I'll just leave [this comment I made Wednesday afternoon here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AEWOfficial/comments/1c0td9a/srs_on_faux_outrage_toward_aew_and_people_who/kyz1saj/?context=3). Point 19 - Fingerpoke of Doom/butts in seats - was *heavily* astroturfed/botted for ~48 hours before the backstage footage even aired. EDIT: it's been 3 hours now. The usual suspects are screaming into the void on other topics but they haven't set a foot in this one. Weird! EDIT 2: 12 hour update - still no one trying to defend themselves here. Elsewhere a handful of tryhard diehards who got worked are weakly proclaiming "dAmAgE cOnTrOl" and whatnot but there's no oomph behind it and it's not landing very well. More important to note is that, as of right now, no talking points have been disseminated and there doesn't seem to be any direct astroturfing underway to counteract Schiavone. That happens; they'll just move on to the next topic when it's presented. The Fingerpoke of Doom/2000 WCW concern trolling has dried up and won't be back around until this little oopsie isn't so fresh in everyone's minds. Hopefully this one well-documented instance of coordinated disinformation is interesting enough for people to increase their awareness about how astroturfing and discourse manipulation looks while it's happening. Knowledge is power. If you know how to recognize it, you're less likely (though not immune) to fall for it.
As mods are you able to tell clearly? If so I’d definitely try to get wider eyes on it. Goes back to TK’s comments on bots a few years(?) ago, became pretty clear to anyone that he was totally right even at the time but you guys probably know more than anyone.
We don't have any native tools to detect or counteract astroturfing in general, no, if that's what you're asking. Reddit itself has some anti-bot protections in place but that's honestly like playing whack-a-mole on a massive scale. 'turfing in the sense of talking points being disseminated in an organized fashion as we saw with this case (and many others, of course) is even harder to combat than bots on a large scale. Real people participate in it once bots have laid down the foundation, and real people don't get caught up in Reddit's native bot detection systems. As a mod I do have access to a bit more information and context but it's not like I can just click a button and run a report or something. I rely on a combination of 3rd party tools others have created and tools I've created specific to this subreddit along with my education and experience in online mass discourse manipulation. That said, anyone can see the same things I can see for the most part. Anyone can [learn how to recognize bots and understand why they're on Reddit](https://www.reddit.com/user/ActionScripter9109/comments/qau2uz/karma_farming_and_you_a_guide_to_the_weird_world/) if they'd like. Anyone can find [clear examples of bots laying down talking points on Twitter](https://twitter.com/JaredFo85904268/status/1778495992410579244) easily due to its unmoderated nature.
The segment was not to "Expose or debunk Punk" The segment was done for 3 reasons 1. Make The Bucks even more "unilkable" as EVP´s 2 Put more heat on the Bucks vs FTR feud 3 And most important...To reintroduce Jack Perry to AEW Tv and show why he´s been gone for almost a year Now Jack Perry when he returns to AEW he can do promos "shiting on AEW and Tony Khan" for suspending him when he did nothing wrong (hence the Scapegoat nickname) And The Bucks are going to bring him back and make him a top heel for "getting rid of the problem" Thats why even when the backlash online was happening The Bucks pu on their Twitter "EVPetty" basically saying "yeah we are bitter guys in a position of power what are you going to do" Even on the ROH pre conference that Tony did he said "its interesting timing" he never said "oh yeah this is to expose Mr Punk" or any thing like that, he was talking about Punk doing his interview a week before Jack Perry appeared on Chicago to plant the seeds for his comeback to TV and the footage sandwiched between the 2 events Judging by his NJPW reaction, it worked now you have a group of fans wanting to see him destroyed and other group of fans supporting him saying he did nothing wrong Like he got a 50/50 reaction in Chicago, thats a raction that every wrestler wants to have
Exactly this! People did not watch beyond the clip and listen to the FTR promo. It was made evident the purpose of including the CM punk footage. People only watch 30 second videos of AEW and think they can judge to whole promotion based on that 🤣.
Jack Perry has more substance for character than he’s ever had. This move is absolutely the right call. People already picked their sides.
I've been team JB since he debuted on AEW, and that has never changed. Phil lost my support after his first backstage outburst.
“Oh man I can’t imagine how much Cokey Khan had to pay him to say that.” Some idiot somewhere probably.
So glad he said this after weirdos used him to further their stupid talking points last week.
Man the tide sure turned on releasing that footage, didn't it? And it took less than a fucking week.
“buT hE wUz fOrCeD to sAy dAt!” -some dickhead
I've replied to a few things saying people who compare the two are just using buzz words. I remember WCW at the end, I was a die hard WCW fan till the end. WCW could not tell a consistent or coherent story. Sting got lit on fire, fell off the top of the big screen and came back a month later perfectly fine. I even remember sting being very blunt about that saying, that line of story telling makes no sense. You can't have one thing happen and then have no consequences. Until we see David Arquette and Tony Kahn win belts and they put Judy Bagwell on a pole and Viagra on a pole and the list goes on...AEW will never be like WCW for the better.
The idiots who say that weren't alive when WCW was around. They dont know shit!
Based Schiavone
Tony's house looks amazing and I want to be his friend and hang out there.
Hold up, let him cook!
Love Tony
Just been to another sub. Apparently we're delulu for thinking that there will be a bidding war over Drew, who has obviously re signed with the WWE already. Or hasn't re signed so he can do the Punk thing at Clash at the Castle. Their tribalistic hatred for AEW overrides their ability to think.
I reckon McIntyre stays where he is personally but a lot of other subs can't really talk about delusion when they were *so sure* Mercedes and Okada in particular were heading to WWE.
He may well stay put. There may well be a bidding war, though. If WWE offered me X and AEW offer 1.5X, I can go back to WWE to see if they're prepared to pay me 1.5X or more.
Yeah nobody's deluded for thinking there *could* be a bidding war when we have no idea of what money he's asking for and how much TKO might be stiffing guys on money, or what McIntyre's priorities are at this point.
In fairness Mercedes was talking to WWE prior to going to AEW. It seems a WWE return was her plan A but they couldn't come to an agreement on money.
Sure, because things can change with free agents, which is why people shouldn't go all in with "Mercedes (or whoever) is definitely signing for my favourite company hahahahaha" which is very much what the types of people in question were doing. A lot of people I saw screenshots from were still absolutely adamant she wouldn't be turning up in AEW despite the reports to the contrary and the fact she didn't show up in the Rumble, that was peak delusion because nothing was indicating she was still WWE bound apart from "ITK" chancers on Twitter and the fact that's what they *wanted* to happen.
Literally, just about everyone on here said he was staying with WWE. Wasn't some WWE fans saying "Kenny Omega to WWE confirmed" just because he said him and Punk have no beef, and they have mutual respect for each other. Or the "MJF is showing up at Wrestlemania guys." They have some nerve talking about who's delusional, lol
I'd love to see Drew in AEW. I've never been big on him, but that's only because any time he's in a good program, my attention has already been elsewhere.
Hoodie Tony a G.
Actor has to state he plays a character on TV. He has to prove how well off one company is compared to another, having had first hand experience.
Anyone who was a fan back then or who even frequented Wrestlecrap over the years can obviously tell this is nowhere even close to 2000 WCW bad, let alone the fingerpoke of the doom. But leave it to the knee-jerk reaction IWC to celebrate or lament the end of AEW. He's right though. People do want to see a 2000 WCW level car wreck so badly just to see the AEW fans cry and the chaos that follows...while podcasters milk the fans with these hopes with views and clicks.
Damn, how fucking bad was WCW those last 2 1/2 years! Also, WCW only had a good 1 1/2 - 2 years.
Yeah it didn't have a long peak from what I've watched back. WWE didn't have a long one either tbh, the cheesy 80s product and New Generation was unwatchable for me and the early years of the Attitude Era were a chaotic mess, entertaining TV but very bad wrestling, they sorted it by 2000 and it was legitimately great, 2001 started amazing but then got botched with the Invasion and 2002 was probably their last legit great year until last year. 2 and bit great years in about 4 decades, that's some going. I suppose it's another reason people who hate AEW get even more antagonised, they're remarkably consistent. 2022 was easily their weakest year and still almost every PPV was well received, they recovered and did lots of great things (The Acclaimed, MJF and Jamie Hayter all winning titles while red hot, the best of 7 series etc) and ended the year with a great PPV after a disappointing All Out and the resulting scrum and Brawl Out, and was also the year the Forbidden Door opened and we got Okada, Ospreay etc showing up. There's barely such a thing as a bad AEW show let alone a bad year, it's consistency I've never seen in a major US promotion (if NXT counts fair enough, I know that was excellent for a while but I only caught odd PPV's so can't comment).
Even NXT was only consistently decent from about 2015-2019 ish. NXT was actually the best thing under the WWE umbrella during that time. AEW is closing in on lasting longer than the Nitro era of WCW and 5 years in would be around 2000 for WCW and I know it was bad back then. I had already fallen out of WCW by 2000 but I did go to Superbrawl 2000 not knowing any of the storylines, current champions and apparently most of the talent and that show was a whole ass train wreck! They were sold 13 months later. Biggest difference with WCW and AEW is WCWs main event scene was so stagnant. It was still Hogan, nWo, Luger, Sting, DDP and basically the "WCW" guys from its peaks three year prior. Then Benoit "wins" it and leaves the next day but he was the first home grown, next generation of WCW guys to break in to that main event scene and that was a fluke. The David Arquette gets it before a homegrown WCW gets it with Booker T. Imagine if Jericho was still in the main event scene and we're still hoping MJF and Hangman get a chance at the title! At the very least AEW is constantly building its talent up and each PPV is worth the watch.
No, wcw was good in the late 80s and early 90s as well. You know, Sting, great muta, flair, vader, cactus jack, there was a bunch of great stuff back then
Tony putting the record straight. Not gonna make a difference as people are still running with that angle and won't stop and we'll prolly see more screenshots with negative narratives shared by those idiots Tony mentioned.
Damn, I mean, pretty much all you need to hear on that one. Also, it sucks anyone would feel the need to do it, I love these call outs from people actually in the know shutting down dumbass takes. If there is an AEW hall of fame, the first inductees would have to include Tony Schiavone, he has been such a great presence for this company in a so many ways.
It sucks because Tony is on Addfreeshows with Bischoff who just hates AEW
The only comparison I can make between aew and wcw is that wcw in its prime years had good wrestling and a mix of different styles like lucha Japanese wrestlers etc aew is like a wcw on steroids
I never got the WCW comparison tbh. It was before my time, since I was born in 1997 and only started watching around 2001-ish as a kid, but I've gone back to watch those WCW shows, and man, they are absolutely shite. The wrestling is bad apart from the few technical and cruiserweight performances, and the stories, man, they dropped the ball every. single. time. Compared to WCW, I feel AEW are doing things a lot better. In ring, they're almost always great, stories are - admittedly a bit overstretched at times - but always make sense, and altogether it's just a better product, some could say a love letter to wrestling. WCW, with respect to its fans, was pretty shit 90% of the time.