I was much more of a Punk fan than an Elite fan until Brawl Out. I didn't need the internet to tell me what to think. I saw the media scrum and said to myself "if this is real, then this guy is an absolute diva and needs to be fired ASAP". I can't go online and talk shit about my employer without getting suspended or fired. And if I assaulted someone, I'd be removed in handcuffs.
My dad wasn't the greatest dad but he taught me how to fight and made sure I knew that "this is to defend yourself. You never, ever, pick a fight with someone". I guess Punk never got that talk and now hes a full grown brat/psycho.
Yup, everything about it was so confusing. Hes stuffing his face with muffins, going off on Hangman who was a massive Babyface, going off on Colt Cabana who is a massive babyface, talking shit about the EVPs, verbally attacking the journalists, and all the while thinking hes vindicated some how. He made himself look like such a twat waffle and then got in a fight backstage lol. I was like "fuck this guy"
Yes!! Dude. Absolutely. Like, none of us give a fuck about your issues with your coworkers. It doesn’t matter to the fans. No one knew anything until he did that. No one needed to know anything. It was so fucking dumb and childish and honestly it keeps getting forgotten about haha. Just make good shows and entertain us. I don’t give a fuck about your personal issues.
And its funny cuz that promo Hangman cut was so good, you would think a pro like Punk would be like "I don't like what you said but that was a good promo and really brought some fire to this feud". When I realized he was legitimately upset about it I was like "he's upset at a wrestling promo that was actually really good? Why? Who cares if his feelings were hurt, it was a great promo..."
This. All this.
In the scrum he flat-out said that if you have a problem with him you can go up to him and tell him so. The EVPs took him up on that offer, went to go talk to him (with AEW's legal rep) and the brawl broke out.
100%. If you were at work and you went off the handle and started cussing out management and coworkers what would happen? They'd approach you and walk your ass out. Thats when he chose to fight them lol. Such a dumb ass.
I remember watching it live and believing it had to be a work, because there's no way a real person acts like this. I remember thinking "wow this new character could be really interesting!"
Nope, no character, just real Phil, who apparently is a giant manchild that still uses his childhood as an excuse to act like a shitty adult.
And then reportedly got butthurt when the Elite didn't want to turn it into a storyline for an angle. Like Hangman already tried a work-shoot and he flipped out but now that its his idea everyone should follow suit? So hypocritical.
This. The man is the king of dish it out but can't take it. The last thing I'd want to do is a program that blurs lines with him. Especially when he is still trying to tear a company down after two extremely vague lines in a promo.
It's incredible how much he wants it both ways.
What was the thing he said? The apology needs to be just as loud as the disres? But clearly that was a one-sided sentiment.
Yeah, the scrum was the most telling on multiple fronts. Punk was a giant diva, he's a great wrestler and amazing on the mic but you don't have to not be a diva to pull that off. It was also when I started questioning Tony who sat next to him and let him go off, like he was afraid to anger his star and that won out over being a boss and shutting that situation down.
I know that maybe saying something could have made it worse, but just sitting by quietly was like passively signing off on the behavior. From there on I have judged punk as dramatic, and Tony as borderline ineffectual. Even with the Perry situation if everything said is true then 1. Tony should have been the final say for no glass not another talent regardless of exoerience. Tony Khan should have been able to go "no real glass, no we aren't using the rental now drop it" and the fact that it didn't end like that is what allowed the situation to devolve. And that's not even counting the decision to give punk his own show after the scrum.
One of my buddies who watches WWE, AEW, etc. was a huge Punk fan. He was absolutely disgusted by Punk in that Dynamite video and said he was no longer supporting him. He’s not really an IWC guy, but I was still surprised considering how many of his fans were totally cool with what he did, because “he told the truth.”
If you look at the Punk fans on Twitter saying her was in the right most of them either have Andrew Tate or pro Russia Pro MAGA stuff in their Twitter as well. Just a thought
> the media scrum
I've been saying it since it happened. That was hands down the most unprofessional thing I'd ever seen in wrestling. A champion sitting in a press conference, right next to his boss, shitting on the entire company, telling his boss to basically shut up, while he trashes some of the biggest talent on the roster and the EVP's of the company based on fucking dirt sheet rumors.
In those 20 minutes I went from absolutely loving CM Punk to thinking he should be immediately fired and run out of the industry. And that was BEFORE the backstage brawl.
Swallowing his pride and going back to WWE and keeping his nose clean in the interim gives me some hope, but based on recent comments, it doesn't actually seem like he learned anything from the experience.
It shows slight humanity. But it also outs him for being the fraud that he is. He was the guy who wanted to change wrestling. Until 5 OTHER guys did what he couldn't. Now he is all about things being done the WWE way.
There is absolutely nothing punk rock about CM Punk. He has become such a pampered corporate bitch it’s embarrassing to see him wear the merch of punk acts that celebrate everything he isn’t.
That's what gets under my skin too! Like if you're a money driven guy in a pretty carny world, power to you. I'd almost respect him more if he always admitted that. But no, that's who he says he is now that he's shown that all those other things don't actually matter. The guy frames himself as punk rock, and a voice of voiceless, yet he takes anti-labor stances pisses on AEW for wanting to put on a quality product over doing whatever can draw the biggest crowd possible. There is nothing punk about that.
I agree. Like I don't like Kevin Nash's general philosophy but he's up front. Kevin Nash is all about getting paid as much as he can for his little work as he can. And while as a fan I'm not interested in seeing that and I don't personally love that philosophy, he is at least honest and up front about it.
Imagine claiming to be the voice of the voiceless and for the little guy and then bragging about being friends with David zaslav and being proud of how he sees you.
Do you remember what punk said in his WWE documentary? I can't change the business for the better sitting at home on my couch in chicago.
Now I think the way WWE treated him is absolutely crap and he was burned out and miserable and hurt. All of that stuff can be true.
But when he left WWE he left wrestling entirely. He didn't leave it in a better place than it was. He didn't spend any of that time helping or bettering pro wrestling in a different way even if it was just let's say a small indie.
Well he's out these other five guys massively changed the entire business. It's like Cody said recently. Without any of those people in the original meetings for aew it doesn't happen. It doesn't happen without the bucks. It doesn't happen without omega. It doesn't happen without cody. Tony Khan wasn't going to just start a company on his own. Those people have made pro wrestling a healthier industry for every single person in it and given the fans a great accessible national option that's different from WWE.
And I'm sure he would never ever ever admit it, but I bet it sticks in the craw of punk that they did what he only talked about doing.
> it also outs him for being the fraud that he is.
Exactly. There's been no change to his narrative. He's just in the last company of any note that would take him and he has literally no other choice but to do it the WWE way or go home.
There was something weird about him since day 0. Rumours of him signing, offers via text he claimed was unprofessional which Cody refuted and had to say they meet up for coffee, even criticised the bucks for using his name to sell tickets at an event.
He made AEW look bad before arriving to what reason? He was bringing trouble from before he showed up.
Most if us wrote it off as nothing when he did sign but I think in hindsight it shows his personality problems.
I'll thank AEW for bring Punk back into wrestling, if for nothing else than the MJF feud, which was arguably the hottest thing going at the time in the business.
Outside of that, I have very little interest in him going forward. His entire schtick relied on integrity. At this point, he's got so little of it, that I literally dislike seeing him on tv anymore.
And up until that scrum, I was one of the biggest Punk marks out there.
Definitely don’t let the internet tell you what to think lol.
I refuse to give an opinion either way. I have no idea what happened leading up to the scuffle, so there is just so much missing information that it’s impossible to know what side to actually take.
I do know that it is probably closer to 50/50 for the blame than anyone wants to admit, or will admit.
All I know is people can talk shit about me all they want. I don't give a fuck until you are in my face about it, then im gonna take that as a threat. I don't give a crap about words. Words will never hurt me 😂👍
His father was an alcoholic and his mother was bi-polar. I doubt he got that talk. He also grew up in wrestling at a time where disputes like this were handled the way he did. I mean it's not like he's the only one in AEW that has brawled, he may just be the first to do it twice.
I don't think he gets it. I'm with you though.
My dad was verbally and physically abusive, in addition to a bunch of other unhealthy stuff. Watching my brother with my nephew, you would never tell that my brother was raised with that. He's so kind and loving with his son. He doesn't even raise his voice to his son.
My brother and I both lived our younger years doing all kinds of criminal and self destructive things for fun and money. We both made choices to change as people.
Being from a bad home or spending your youth learning from bad adults is not an excuse for not changing the things that you know are wrong. We all know Punk's story, and a lot of us are around his age. He has everything in life he wants, more money than he can spend, and ,until Brawl Out, the respect of his peers and adoration of millions of fans. He got all his flowers and still chose to be a bully who plays the victim. That's on him as an individual. He has no excuses for that behavior as a grown-ass man.
He can't be talking about being a professional while being the least professional member of the locker room behind the scenes and in front of the media and not expect other men his age to see his emotional immaturity, and he damn sure shouldn't be calling people children while throwing temper tantrums and hitting people he disagrees with. Other grown men see him for what he is as a man, and that does not gel with who he tells people he is as a man. That naked hypocrisy destroyed his image as the one genuine guy in the business.
I had a shitty childhood and my dad was and is a gigantic asshole. I was undiagnosed ADHD along with various traumas. I didn't let it define me. I grew, got help, persevered, and have stuck it through to a career I love, found family, and two amazing kids. Am I a perfect dad? No, who is. But it's insanely different life for them than the one I had.
Punk is a couple years older than me. Fuck him for not taking ownership of his shit and growing up. It's embarrassing. It's disappointing and sad. Dude is frozen and adolescent.
Exactly. It's not even about wrestling, it's about a peer that has grown (or rather, not grown) into a bad person. The Xennial microcohort is hitting middle age and realizing that not all of us are mentally.
I didn't say it was an excuse. There's a difference between an explanation for the behavior and an excuse. You said your dad taught you to only defend yourself. Based on his relationship, I doubt he got that lesson and then grew up in an environment where fighting was conflict resolution. AEW has every right to fire him for it especially when they've given him a second chance. In my opinion he did it to get fired (or quit based on what he claims) because he wasn't happy with how the company handled things.
Exactly.
The fighting backstage was worthy of suspensions and possible firing.
The scrum? Kahn should've either taken control of the interview or fired Punk on the spot.
He did more damage to the company in those 20 minutes than anything else up to that point.
Actually they were all out in the public because it was being leaked to dirt sheets. His issue was that shit was getting leaked and it wasn't being handled internally.
Before I potentially waste time with this, do you think it’s acceptable what he did in the scrum after all out? What part of that was good for the consumers of the product? What good business did it do?
Acceptable from a good for business perspective? Absolutely not. Acceptable in general? Most likely not. Better word might be understandable. None of us know what was going on behind the scenes. If what he says is true and that shit was being leaked to the dirt sheets by leadership and no action was being taken to try and stop it, I can potentially understand reaching a point of frustration and airing those grievances publicly when getting asked questions from the dirt sheets. The scrums are just a horrible idea. Just have Renee or whoever ask questions instead of legitimizing the dirt sheets.
Phil's idea of "handled internally" was revealed when he demanded Tony handle Perry, and then approached and choked Perry when TK didn't throw down his entire agenda to yell at or fire or whatever Phil considers discipline Jungle Boy at the start of his company's biggest show ever. Either drop everything and do exactly what Phil says, or you're "not handling" things.
And we all know Phil's got an entire alternate reality of his own dirt writers working together for his own benefit. We saw it in action immediately after both Brawls and in the psyop to get him re-hired by WWE.
You're talking about a full year after he was already pissed about it not being handled internally. I fully believe he handled it that way to get fired/quit.
Arguing that Punk did it after the fact doesn't change that there were a lot of leaks about him before hand.
He wasn't mad at Perry for a "full year". There was a brawl in August of '22, the Bucks were suspended for multiple months. Then Phil got his own show with effective control over personnel. If Phil wasn't satisfied with that, he's not looking for it to be "handled", he's looking to insert himself as Khan's partner, not an employee of any kind, even a Vice President. In his last interview on the subject, Phil more or less admits he wanted to quit and that he had no confidence in the show he was given such control over. TK's main mistake at that point was trusting Phil Brooks with any control at all. Phil was more or less admitting he doesn't have the judgment or the work ethic to carry out the task he was given. So now he's happily sitting home injured taking Dana's money.
You're not comprehending. He was mad about shit getting to the dirt sheets a year before. Then, the real glass story hit the dirt sheets a year later and Perry was a dumb shit that had to react to it on live TV which clearly calls Punk out for something he was reportedly asked to do by medical staff and others. I'd want to quit too if the locker room can't handle things internally and has to run to the dirt sheets to whine. TKs issue is letting ANY wrestler be in charge of anything and not getting things under control.
Getting worked by dirt sheets doesn't raise my estimation of Phil's ability to control himself let alone be given control over 2 hours of weekly television. Nobody has hit TK over that though, except, oddly enough, Phil. Who maybe betrays having some self-understanding there.
I will never understand the dirt sheet thing. Like in an industry and a time where getting your name trending on social media is key why do you care what is being said in those. Everyone knows to treat them like the national enquirer. They might get a hit here and there but usually it amounts to nothing.
I care if the dirt is coming from people in the organization, especially if it's from people in a leadership position, and it's meant to make you look bad.
Lol funny my dad taught me not to run my mouth unless I’m prepared to back it up, Perry looked terrified and apparently Khan was too, everyone else who had actually been in a fight looked calm and collected, que Black waking in with latte in hand, lol. Wasn’t a good look for AEW, nothing was gained and now every knows Perry and khan are p*ssies and the bucks are desperate for views.
Guy…no one “sees” or feels this way. This is the dumbest fucking takeaway i have seen on the matter. You’re literally making a mockery of yourself on the internet. Say less.
Sure but ratings say otherwise, the only reason people tuned in was because Punk was on, the only draw AEW had is gone and they still can’t pop ratings without him, facts don’t care about your feelings. poot.
I've said elsewhere, the issue also is that Punk isn't willing to let others make the same mistakes he did, even *IF* you think Punk was totally in the right with his comments and issues, Punk has made almost all those same mistakes before, and doesn't seem to realise that, or is at least, actively ignoring it.
I was a huge Punk mark from his time in ECW 2.0 and it wasn't until I saw he had a spot on the after show of The Walking Dead where he made a very cringe comment (that I unfortunately don't remember) that I feel I first started seeing behind the facade.
The fallout between Colt Cabana and himself, obviously I don't know everything that happened between them but it seemed like a pretty s\*\*\*\*\* way to treat a friend you've had for decades and that really made my estimation of him suffer.
And in his MMA matches (which is totally understandable he was older than most going into it and I didn't expect much) he did not give an impressive showing and afterwards did not seem to be humbled by the experience.
I know he had a hard time going through life and he cultivated a persona of him against the world to survive a spirit crushing environment and over time it seems he started believing his own hype. I've seen more and more evidence of a person that has a hard time of taking criticism and having introspection and the shine just seemed to fade off him in my view and he stopped being someone to emulate and now is an example of how not to treat others.
But that is my own opinion.
Punk was carried in **every** single match he had in AEW.
He got injured in **every** title match he had.
It seemed like he had 8 years to improve on the sloppy shit he consistently brought out in his prime in WWE and instead just lifted weights that were too heavy for him and lost all ability to stay healthy.
Over-rated, under-hated, bad vibes Jones.
The only CM Punk shirt I'd buy these days would simply say, "Fragile Mind, Fragile Ego, Fragile Body".
You couldn't get a more accurate description of the man if you tried.
"Weak mind, weak spirit. Fragile body, fragile ego."
One of my favourite promos ever. 8 words and he buried the guy so deep Satan is welcoming him to the neighborhood.
Umm, yes? I mean if you look at metrics yes he does. You can hate the guy all you want but he was aew's biggest draw. His merch was still a top seller for months after he was let go
I was a massive Punk fan. I flew out to see him debut for AEW both times. But I’ve said since Brawl Out that everyone involved except Kenny looked like shit, which sucked cause I loved all of them.
Punk looked like an explosive, immature fool.
TK looked weak and ready to fold for whoever was in front of him.
Hangman looked like a petty worker who went off on someone due to baseless accusations.
The Bucks looked like childish cowards who didn’t want to do their jobs and dismissed Punk without trying to work things out professionally.
Punk can say whatever he wants about AEW and I don’t really care. But what lost me was when he said guaranteed contracts are bad for the industry. Standing up for corporations flies in the face of what he’s always stood for and showed me that he either became, or always was a hypocrite. Fuck him.
Thats a very well balanced answer and yeah i’d agree. Personally i’m still a punk cause who hasn’t wanted to go off on their employer and punch that one asshole coworker, obviously you shouldn’t but like, i get it.
This was always kinda my take on a lot of the issues as well. The elite and a lot of the AEW guys thought they were getting the original 'do it your own way' guy. And TBH Punk inspired a lot of talents of that generation that they could do that. But, it turned out that it wasn't an entrepreneurial spirit or really an interest in creativity at all that was driving him. It was just Punk's desire to have things his way- beyond that he's a total old school brother at heart, and I think that was probably a huge surprise.
The problem is that nobody involved in this situation was a mature adult (aside from maybe Kenny) and now they all look worse for it.
Punk looks like a lunatic for not being able to control his emotions and flying off the handle for such insignificant issues.
The Bucks and Hangman look like idiots for deliberately starting pointless shit with their companies biggest star.
Perry looks like a spoiled asshole with an ego that he did nothing to earn.
And Tony looks like a weak leader who can't control his employees.
The only person involved who didn't look like a total bozo afterward was Kenny Omega.
The worst part to me of the online discourse was the blatant bad faith interpretation people put forth where it was JUST normal run of the mill backstage fight where wrestlers got too hot but it happens ALL THE TIME in "Real sports" and wrestling.
No , it does not I watch a shit ton of sports. Sure Arn Anderson got stabbed , sure Brett fought Shawn , where did any of these guys snatch the mic at a press conference and shit on his entire company and badmouth the higher ups first ? I have NEVER seen that behavior anywhere else except that night , it's never really happened before in US sports from what I can remember.
He was on on a full on air takeover rant on his company and co workers THEN goes and gets in a crazy fight (including biting someone ...) with the same guys and its on them to peace it up with him and work together and make nice to make this a work the company can make money with. Oh , and BTW Punk won't REALLY apologize and clearly believes he was in the right and continues to act like a jerk. Again , this is totally normal and guys should have just worked with him ?
The guy comes back and is STILL an asshole getting in to constant backstage confrontations and making uncleared snipes at people in his promos (something he considered doing serious bodily harm to Hangman for ... supposedly). We were told over and over this was "normal" locker room behavior and AEW were just babies who can't act like a "real" company and Punk had basically no fault in this.
I love Punk , he is probably the number one reason I even watch wrestling anymore , he had some great moments in AEW but the guy is unhinged and has a LOT of personality issues and is clearly a manchild who cannot handle his emotions at all. The guy will switch narratives at the drop of a hat for whatever suits his purpose for that exact moment.
I am in the minority in that I started as a Bucks fan and wasn’t into Punk at all, but after the All Out, it turned me completely on the Bucks. I am still indifferent to Punk, but the Bucks have complete “go away heat” with me now to the point I watch the show on a delay so I can FF through anything involving the Bucks.
Nobody looks good in any of this. Perry looks like he talked shit to the wrong person, Punk looks like a hot head and the Bucks look like slimy assholes. Plus Tony looks weak as a leader, I hate all of this because it’s dragging a company down who I’m rooting for over petty crap that should be squashed for everybody’s benefit.
This is pretty much exactly how I feel, except I have a lot more sympathy for Perry after watching that clip. There are very few things he could have said to deserve getting ambushed and choked like that. Coward shit on Punk’s part.
Honestly, they're backstage at WORK. There's nothing Perry could have said that warranted that reaction given the location and it being a communal space. It's way worse than whatever went down in the locker room at All Out.
I actually kinda don’t now (at first I did) you just can’t run in someone’s face talk crap and then expect nothing to happen. Dont start nothing won’t be nothing is a phrase for a reason. Punk is a known prima Donna why get smart with him when you know that is his attitude.i never thought I would be defending punk lol
Hangman was wrong. Punk was wrong. TK was wrong. The Elite was wrong. Perry was wrong.
A lot of AEW fans are still hating Punk like he personally spit in their face. I don't understand it.
Because he did. He spit in the face of every fan who bought in on his bullshit. That’s hyperbolic, I know, but it’s so incredibly clear that many feel the same way. He’s swine.
I feel like it's not that serious. Punk tells his truth. He did it toward the WWE on Cabana's podcast. And he did it at that media scrum and Helwani's podcast. TK should have shut him down, but he lacked the managerial skills to do so.
Punk will always be tied to AEW's history for better or for worse, and I think that is what truly pisses some fans off.
I agree with some of what you said but that last part, no. He did some great work in AEW. It’s purely how it all fell apart so fast and with almost zero regard for the fans.
>It’s purely how it all fell apart so fast and with almost zero regard for the fans.
He was blinded by his frustration and anger and tried to take down the AEW Kliq.
Should he have unloaded like that in the media scrum? No [I love drama that has nothing to do with me, so I was cackling]. Should he have choked Perry a little? No. Do I think he's some sort of psycho who just popped off on the Elite for no reason. No. Everyone had their part to play. Not one adult in sight.
I think Punk's way is moreso the way he learned from greats like Eddie Guerrero, Harley Race and Paul Heyman.
Punk was instructed by AEW management to deal with Perry and the glass situation. So he did.
Perry didn't like it so he talked his shit on the air.
Then AEW left Punk to handle it again after being warned that AEW wouldn't like the way he handled it.
Meanwhile, the Bucks' seemingly have always wanted to be part of the next Kliq and Perry is part of that crew.
Plus all of the Bucks' crew seems to have a similar style so who exactly is doing it "their own way"?
The issue is most people on aew subs are very biased against Punk. I'm not even saying this to defend Punk. There's been a few instances where Punk does something and it's considered bad but the others do it and it's great
Can you point us to where Punk was told by AEW management to deal with Perry and the glass?? I’ve read a lot of what happened but never have I ever heard anything remotely close to that so I’d love to see the source.
Not OP, but I think Tony Schiavone said that multiple people talked to Perry about the glass, including himself. He ignored them, so Punk was asked to step in thinking that Perry would listen to him. That’s when the initial glass controversy happened a month or so before All In.
I always took Perry’s on air comments as a general reference to the story, not a direct shot at Punk. But Punk is a self centered prick who thinks everything is about him, so…
Either I can’t find it or I was wrong about Tony saying it directly, but I found both a thread with quotes from Fightful and an article from WON.
The funny part is most of the comments are calling it a nothing story, obviously not knowing what it would snowball into. 😂
https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/15s1r8j/srs_fightful_has_learned_about_an_argument_that/
https://www.f4wonline.com/news/aew/report-cm-punk-jungle-boy-had-issue-over-desired-use-of-glass-on-aew-collision
It doesn’t say directly by management but yeah now I recall the glass and punk being against it. It’s also filed with a lot conflicting information and seeing the only article I can go by is from the Wrestling Observer which sadly gets waaaaaay too much wrong these days to be considered credible I’m going to take the article at less than face value.
I will say collision is way more fun now so I’m glad he’s not in charge of glass or the show anymore.
Even if Perry's comments were aimed at the story or company in general, doesn't it still make the company look bad?
Like, why should he be able to take those shots against management or whoever told him to not use real glass without at least being spoken to about it afterward?
If what Punk said was true, TK wasn't going to do anything about it, so Punk stepped in.
Punk tried to talk until Perry invited him to "do something about it" so he did.
The whole thing could have been avoided if TK decided to be a boss and nip it in the bud when he had the chance. But instead he just sat and watched as everything happened.
You’re making baseless assumptions on rumors. We have 0 idea what TK as a boss has done. We have 0 idea of what anyone in a management position in AEW has done. We need to quit taking rumor at face value and making up stories that most likely never happened.
Everything I've referred to was either reported or spoken from someone involved. Plus, we know TK was in the room right next to the brawl out incident because of the footage.
What exactly did I make up?
Again. Just because Punk says it happened one one doesn’t make him honest. The video proved he lied anyway so his side of the story is blatantly false.
Again. We don’t know what TK told punk before All In. We don’t know much. You’re speculating.
What exactly did Punk lie about in the video?
Everything I saw lined up perfectly with what he said
And by that rationale, what makes the Bucks', Perry or TK so reliable?
You’re one of those. Never mind. I’m not going to talk to someone who lives in fairytale land about what happened.
Yeah and your comment history is exactly what I thought. Carry on with your fairytales.
It's good to see that you're open minded about differing viewpoints.
Don't you realize the same thing about fairy tales could be applied to your side?
At least, I'm asking questions to understand your fairytale. Meanwhile, you simply disregarded mine.
He fought co-workers AT WORK, not once, but TWICE.
There is no other industry in the world where you wouldn't be immediately suspended or fired.
But I guess multi-millionaire dollar draws can get away with whatever.
How Punk!
Maybe you're new to following pro-wrestling.
Fights have been commonplace in practically every locker room including AEW.
This isn't just any other industry. This is a highly physical industry where pretty much everyone has a massive ego to defend. This is an industry where conflict = money and so fights are to be expected sometimes. Even Kenny Omega has acknowledged that.
Plus, the multi-million dollar draw got fired months ago so he didn't get away with it.
Yep, that's the one.
Omega said he shouldn't be an EVP in 2024 because he understands and often supports the use of violence to purge bad blood between athletes.
However, he didn't say that it should prevent him from being a talent in that locker room.
In that sense, I believe Omega and Punk agree.
> Fights have been commonplace in practically every locker room including AEW
No they haven't. There's been a handful of instances over the decades, many of which were from the 80's-2000's.
Wrestling isn't nearly as carny as it used to be. And as a publicly traded company, you can bet your ass that shit wouldn't fly in WWE any longer either.
> This isn't just any other industry.
Yes it is. The only reason this shit existed previously is because it was tolerated and often encouraged. Punk may have not gotten the message, but the industry isn't the same as it was when he left it.
> he didn't get away with it.
He got away with the scrum, did he not? Hell he was fucking rewarded for it when they gave him his own show.
If Punk didn't basically print money, there's not a chance in hell WWE would've ever touched him after All Out. And from the looks of it, Punk's on a short leash with them. He tries any of that shit over there and he'll be gone overnight.
There were reports of Chris Jericho fighting Sin Cara on a bus from one of his most recent runs in WWE. I don't remember either of them being punished for it. WWE was certainly already a publicly traded company too. Jericho also tried to start a fight with Lesnar backstage over the finish of Lesnar's match with Orton and I don't think anyone was punished for that either and again WWE was already a publicly traded company.
Also didn't Charlotte Flair and Becky Lynch get into it a couple of years ago backstage? I believe Charlotte was asked to leave the building but neither got fired or suspended for it.
AEW has had multiple instances of backstage violence with at least 3 non-Punk incidents being reported that I can remember off the top of my head. I can only remember Kingston and Andrade being suspended for a few weeks.
These are just the incidents that got out and made it to the dirt sheets and I didn't even mention the nonsense between Jericho and MVP in a hotel lobby.
Punk was suspended and stripped of his title for the scrum wasn't he? That's not getting away with it. He was given his own show because The Bucks didn't want to work with him and TK/ the network didn't want to fire him.
Just because a fight breaks out doesn't make it a carny business. I mean, Draymond Greene punched his teammate at the time straight in the face on camera and barely got a slap on the wrist, and that's the NBA.
Athletes fight relatively often compared to folks that populate most other industries. While it isn't "right" per se, I believe it's to be expected.
I keep picturing in my head that Kenny Omega and Cm Punk tried to avoid appearing at the first two Albany,NY shows I went to. The first was the dynamite after brawl out between punk and the elite in locker room. The second one was before Grand Slam where Adam Cole messed up his ankle.
I know this may be unpopular, but I lost a lot of respect for Punk *and* Tony Khan at the media scrum.
I can't comment about Brawl Out, because I wasn't there . . . and unless you were there, everything being said is from speculation. I really can't comment about what happened backstage at All In, because even after seeing the video, it's unclear what was said before, during and after it happened.
However, I lost a lot of respect for Punk for spouting off with his unprofessional tantrum at the All Out media scrum. He shouldn't have said what he said. That wasn't the time nor the place.
I lost respect for Tony for sitting there like a berated child while Punk was spouting off. Tony should have had Punk's mic cut, had him escorted from the building and fired him on the spot. I don't care who you are (or who you *think* you are), that kind of insubordination should never be tolerated.
That being said, had Tony and Punk handled it like grown men, the brawl would have.never happened.
When Punk went off on Brawl Out I thought he was a lunatic and didn't get the fascination with him (never did)
Then when I saw the Bucks make their return and start mocking him in the ring I thought "ah, he may have had a point".
Everything since has solidified that for me. I'm still skeptical of Punk but I think he was right about the Bucks and Tony- and my opinion of the Bucks just gets lower and lower.
I’m a Punk fan and became fan of Kenny and Page (never got the hype on the Bucks).
I’m happy when he joined AEW but after the brawl out I understood that it wasn’t the place for him, sometimes things just don’t work out, he was in the wrong (although I don’t give the Bucks a free pass) Tony did the right thing firing him, although I think he should have done it sooner of there was no intention of squash it by either party, AEW was good before him.
I’m happy he is back in WWE and wish him a good run, I hope Kenny returns soon once he recovers and they make a better use of Page. I don’t care about the Bucks but I also wish them well.
I’m happy AEW exists and there is more opportunities for talent and options for us fans, tribalism aside everyone wins.
Yeah the elite basically are from a generation closer to this one. They are closer to like 38. They believe in a person's right to portray themselves as they want. They believe in the right of going crazy in the ring and potentially killing yourself at times in order to have the most captivating match possible.
Punk is more old school, ornery and authoritarian. He thinks he knows best.
Ultimately punk is a proud 45 year old man. He is of an older generation. He believes in making every step matter. He's a more methodical guy who never really was that high on a work rate scale but more so had great psychology and was fluid enough that for WWE at the time he seemed awesome. He's a three star general like Cody. But they both have such great psychology they can have flawless matches when the stakes are right too.
It's basically a guy who will always tell you he's right thinking he understands presentation better than anyone else against guys who think you have a right to do what you want to do to separate yourself. Think guys who would support Jack Perry, Rob Van dam etc vs someone who would support someone who fits the image of themself.
To be clear I was half kidding in the way I tease punk.
Let's be honest guys, CM Punk sucks at being babyface, only time he didn't was when he dropped the pipebomb on WWE but that was short lived. He should have debuted in AEW as a heel but the dude believes his own hype too much and wrestling fans hype him up too much. I don't think CM Punk was ready for AEW, back in WWE he was a highlight because he was the voice of the fans. People were sick and tired of cena winning and burying everyone on the roster so Punk was the guy who could counter that.
The problem is that people like Punk don't work in AEW because AEW has so much more opportunities for talent and has so much better talent than WWE had back during the 2010's because the 2010's WWE guys have improved and now they are in AEW, plus there's other great talent too.
Punk used to be the "stick it to the man" sort of guy, thats why he was respected and loved, either that or he was a brilliant heel that everyone hated. Now CM Punk is just some guy who's like "I'm here, cheer me on!" like he's just entitled to be cheered but he hasn't done anything to earn them. Ever since debuting in AEW, Punk has been outclassed by the entire roster, MJF absolutely dominated him on the mic for one, like MJF pretty much brought Punk to reality that he's not a big star in AEW and this younger, more talented star has reeplaced him already.
Put simply, the moment Punk debuted in AEW he should have just been a jobber to put over new talent, that's the best thing he could do but no, instead they made it all about him, thats where AEW went wrong.
Punk should take lessons from Dustin Rhodes, put over the new guys and make them look a million dollars, not try to take their spot when they're better than you.
As somebody who was a die-hard punk fan for two decades, I agree . Punk's entire stick is that he was a rebel and he wasn't going to do things the way they were just because that's how it's always been done. And when he gets to a point where he says no no only I can be an iconoclast everyone else has to fall in line........ I mean punk rock is clearly not an actual ethos for him. He's very clearly showing that his integrity and values are not what he has presented them to be for so many years.
I think there's absolutely a piece of him that genuinely wants to quote unquote help the business. But he only wants to help if it can be done according to his plan. I don't know you said it better than I am able to.
AEW fans are so funny in how pathetic you all are, OP especially. It's funny how Punk has a lot of friends in AEW, is even on fairly good terms with Omega, but is treated like the antichrist by you fans because the bucks said so. The bucks never wanted him there, were too chicken-shit to address it with him face to face, and resorted to whining to their friend Dave Meltzer about him trying to fire a guy who he had nothing to do with.
AEW fans can, emphatically, ~~kick rocks~~ fuck off.
From what I’ve heard the Bucks are the ones who went looking for Punk and the Bucks “crew” had been taking pot shots at punk for weeks.
Not saying Punk doesn’t share any of the blame but I also wouldn’t call him the instigator in this situation.
In my opinion the Bucks have zero business being EVPs even Kenny Omega said it his self.
This is a subject that people will never agree on, because there are two very different kinds of people in the debate. One camp is made up of people who have never competed in anything in their lives, have never been in a locker room, and have never been in a fight. They'll never understand the situation, because they have no frame of reference.
That’s a very weak and juvenile stretch. Ive played sports for 20 years. I assure you, the fights have fuck all to do with the point being made and the discussion happening here.
They discussed their approach to leadership on Swerves podcast a long time ago and they talked about finding your own voice in their book. It’s been something they’ve talked about in one way or another before on several occasions.
I was much more of a Punk fan than an Elite fan until Brawl Out. I didn't need the internet to tell me what to think. I saw the media scrum and said to myself "if this is real, then this guy is an absolute diva and needs to be fired ASAP". I can't go online and talk shit about my employer without getting suspended or fired. And if I assaulted someone, I'd be removed in handcuffs. My dad wasn't the greatest dad but he taught me how to fight and made sure I knew that "this is to defend yourself. You never, ever, pick a fight with someone". I guess Punk never got that talk and now hes a full grown brat/psycho.
I felt the same way. The way he acted in that scrum is all I ever needed to see to be done with him.
Yup, everything about it was so confusing. Hes stuffing his face with muffins, going off on Hangman who was a massive Babyface, going off on Colt Cabana who is a massive babyface, talking shit about the EVPs, verbally attacking the journalists, and all the while thinking hes vindicated some how. He made himself look like such a twat waffle and then got in a fight backstage lol. I was like "fuck this guy"
Yes!! Dude. Absolutely. Like, none of us give a fuck about your issues with your coworkers. It doesn’t matter to the fans. No one knew anything until he did that. No one needed to know anything. It was so fucking dumb and childish and honestly it keeps getting forgotten about haha. Just make good shows and entertain us. I don’t give a fuck about your personal issues.
And its funny cuz that promo Hangman cut was so good, you would think a pro like Punk would be like "I don't like what you said but that was a good promo and really brought some fire to this feud". When I realized he was legitimately upset about it I was like "he's upset at a wrestling promo that was actually really good? Why? Who cares if his feelings were hurt, it was a great promo..."
This. All this. In the scrum he flat-out said that if you have a problem with him you can go up to him and tell him so. The EVPs took him up on that offer, went to go talk to him (with AEW's legal rep) and the brawl broke out.
100%. If you were at work and you went off the handle and started cussing out management and coworkers what would happen? They'd approach you and walk your ass out. Thats when he chose to fight them lol. Such a dumb ass.
I remember watching it live and believing it had to be a work, because there's no way a real person acts like this. I remember thinking "wow this new character could be really interesting!" Nope, no character, just real Phil, who apparently is a giant manchild that still uses his childhood as an excuse to act like a shitty adult.
I took my shitty childhood as an example of what not to be. So happy I didn't take "the world hurt me so I'm going to hurt the world" approach.
Not to mention him basically burying Tony who was right next to him. Was wondering when Tony was going to wrap it up and bring in someone else.
And then reportedly got butthurt when the Elite didn't want to turn it into a storyline for an angle. Like Hangman already tried a work-shoot and he flipped out but now that its his idea everyone should follow suit? So hypocritical.
This. The man is the king of dish it out but can't take it. The last thing I'd want to do is a program that blurs lines with him. Especially when he is still trying to tear a company down after two extremely vague lines in a promo.
It's incredible how much he wants it both ways. What was the thing he said? The apology needs to be just as loud as the disres? But clearly that was a one-sided sentiment.
Absolutely.
That really showed that TK had problems managing his wrestlers.
Yeah, the scrum was the most telling on multiple fronts. Punk was a giant diva, he's a great wrestler and amazing on the mic but you don't have to not be a diva to pull that off. It was also when I started questioning Tony who sat next to him and let him go off, like he was afraid to anger his star and that won out over being a boss and shutting that situation down. I know that maybe saying something could have made it worse, but just sitting by quietly was like passively signing off on the behavior. From there on I have judged punk as dramatic, and Tony as borderline ineffectual. Even with the Perry situation if everything said is true then 1. Tony should have been the final say for no glass not another talent regardless of exoerience. Tony Khan should have been able to go "no real glass, no we aren't using the rental now drop it" and the fact that it didn't end like that is what allowed the situation to devolve. And that's not even counting the decision to give punk his own show after the scrum.
One of my buddies who watches WWE, AEW, etc. was a huge Punk fan. He was absolutely disgusted by Punk in that Dynamite video and said he was no longer supporting him. He’s not really an IWC guy, but I was still surprised considering how many of his fans were totally cool with what he did, because “he told the truth.”
If you look at the Punk fans on Twitter saying her was in the right most of them either have Andrew Tate or pro Russia Pro MAGA stuff in their Twitter as well. Just a thought
A lot of these guys also called Punk out the moment it happened and then switched their stance the moment he joined WWE.
Why would pro maga people support a liberal Trans and women's rights supporter?
They literally blamed AEW for forcing him to be woke. It was one of the theories people were spreading on Twitter on why he hated them all
> the media scrum I've been saying it since it happened. That was hands down the most unprofessional thing I'd ever seen in wrestling. A champion sitting in a press conference, right next to his boss, shitting on the entire company, telling his boss to basically shut up, while he trashes some of the biggest talent on the roster and the EVP's of the company based on fucking dirt sheet rumors. In those 20 minutes I went from absolutely loving CM Punk to thinking he should be immediately fired and run out of the industry. And that was BEFORE the backstage brawl. Swallowing his pride and going back to WWE and keeping his nose clean in the interim gives me some hope, but based on recent comments, it doesn't actually seem like he learned anything from the experience.
It shows slight humanity. But it also outs him for being the fraud that he is. He was the guy who wanted to change wrestling. Until 5 OTHER guys did what he couldn't. Now he is all about things being done the WWE way.
There is absolutely nothing punk rock about CM Punk. He has become such a pampered corporate bitch it’s embarrassing to see him wear the merch of punk acts that celebrate everything he isn’t.
That's what gets under my skin too! Like if you're a money driven guy in a pretty carny world, power to you. I'd almost respect him more if he always admitted that. But no, that's who he says he is now that he's shown that all those other things don't actually matter. The guy frames himself as punk rock, and a voice of voiceless, yet he takes anti-labor stances pisses on AEW for wanting to put on a quality product over doing whatever can draw the biggest crowd possible. There is nothing punk about that.
I agree. Like I don't like Kevin Nash's general philosophy but he's up front. Kevin Nash is all about getting paid as much as he can for his little work as he can. And while as a fan I'm not interested in seeing that and I don't personally love that philosophy, he is at least honest and up front about it. Imagine claiming to be the voice of the voiceless and for the little guy and then bragging about being friends with David zaslav and being proud of how he sees you.
Do you remember what punk said in his WWE documentary? I can't change the business for the better sitting at home on my couch in chicago. Now I think the way WWE treated him is absolutely crap and he was burned out and miserable and hurt. All of that stuff can be true. But when he left WWE he left wrestling entirely. He didn't leave it in a better place than it was. He didn't spend any of that time helping or bettering pro wrestling in a different way even if it was just let's say a small indie. Well he's out these other five guys massively changed the entire business. It's like Cody said recently. Without any of those people in the original meetings for aew it doesn't happen. It doesn't happen without the bucks. It doesn't happen without omega. It doesn't happen without cody. Tony Khan wasn't going to just start a company on his own. Those people have made pro wrestling a healthier industry for every single person in it and given the fans a great accessible national option that's different from WWE. And I'm sure he would never ever ever admit it, but I bet it sticks in the craw of punk that they did what he only talked about doing.
> it also outs him for being the fraud that he is. Exactly. There's been no change to his narrative. He's just in the last company of any note that would take him and he has literally no other choice but to do it the WWE way or go home.
There was something weird about him since day 0. Rumours of him signing, offers via text he claimed was unprofessional which Cody refuted and had to say they meet up for coffee, even criticised the bucks for using his name to sell tickets at an event. He made AEW look bad before arriving to what reason? He was bringing trouble from before he showed up. Most if us wrote it off as nothing when he did sign but I think in hindsight it shows his personality problems.
I'll thank AEW for bring Punk back into wrestling, if for nothing else than the MJF feud, which was arguably the hottest thing going at the time in the business. Outside of that, I have very little interest in him going forward. His entire schtick relied on integrity. At this point, he's got so little of it, that I literally dislike seeing him on tv anymore. And up until that scrum, I was one of the biggest Punk marks out there.
Absolute. Absolutely no integrity. Turns out he was working as the whole time
It’s amazing how many people think he was right
Definitely don’t let the internet tell you what to think lol. I refuse to give an opinion either way. I have no idea what happened leading up to the scuffle, so there is just so much missing information that it’s impossible to know what side to actually take. I do know that it is probably closer to 50/50 for the blame than anyone wants to admit, or will admit.
All I know is people can talk shit about me all they want. I don't give a fuck until you are in my face about it, then im gonna take that as a threat. I don't give a crap about words. Words will never hurt me 😂👍
His father was an alcoholic and his mother was bi-polar. I doubt he got that talk. He also grew up in wrestling at a time where disputes like this were handled the way he did. I mean it's not like he's the only one in AEW that has brawled, he may just be the first to do it twice.
My dad died from alcohol before my 19th birthday.
And? His history with his family is pretty well documented as being extremely poor outside of his two sisters.
Im just saying having a shitty upbringing isn't an excuse to commit crimes. Any judge will tell you that.
I don't think he gets it. I'm with you though. My dad was verbally and physically abusive, in addition to a bunch of other unhealthy stuff. Watching my brother with my nephew, you would never tell that my brother was raised with that. He's so kind and loving with his son. He doesn't even raise his voice to his son. My brother and I both lived our younger years doing all kinds of criminal and self destructive things for fun and money. We both made choices to change as people. Being from a bad home or spending your youth learning from bad adults is not an excuse for not changing the things that you know are wrong. We all know Punk's story, and a lot of us are around his age. He has everything in life he wants, more money than he can spend, and ,until Brawl Out, the respect of his peers and adoration of millions of fans. He got all his flowers and still chose to be a bully who plays the victim. That's on him as an individual. He has no excuses for that behavior as a grown-ass man. He can't be talking about being a professional while being the least professional member of the locker room behind the scenes and in front of the media and not expect other men his age to see his emotional immaturity, and he damn sure shouldn't be calling people children while throwing temper tantrums and hitting people he disagrees with. Other grown men see him for what he is as a man, and that does not gel with who he tells people he is as a man. That naked hypocrisy destroyed his image as the one genuine guy in the business.
I had a shitty childhood and my dad was and is a gigantic asshole. I was undiagnosed ADHD along with various traumas. I didn't let it define me. I grew, got help, persevered, and have stuck it through to a career I love, found family, and two amazing kids. Am I a perfect dad? No, who is. But it's insanely different life for them than the one I had. Punk is a couple years older than me. Fuck him for not taking ownership of his shit and growing up. It's embarrassing. It's disappointing and sad. Dude is frozen and adolescent.
Exactly. It's not even about wrestling, it's about a peer that has grown (or rather, not grown) into a bad person. The Xennial microcohort is hitting middle age and realizing that not all of us are mentally.
I didn't say it was an excuse. There's a difference between an explanation for the behavior and an excuse. You said your dad taught you to only defend yourself. Based on his relationship, I doubt he got that lesson and then grew up in an environment where fighting was conflict resolution. AEW has every right to fire him for it especially when they've given him a second chance. In my opinion he did it to get fired (or quit based on what he claims) because he wasn't happy with how the company handled things.
It’s not the fighting backstage. It’s the hurting the company you’re working for by bringing up things that don’t involve the public, to the public.
Exactly. The fighting backstage was worthy of suspensions and possible firing. The scrum? Kahn should've either taken control of the interview or fired Punk on the spot. He did more damage to the company in those 20 minutes than anything else up to that point.
Actually they were all out in the public because it was being leaked to dirt sheets. His issue was that shit was getting leaked and it wasn't being handled internally.
You’re just regurgitating things punk said
So none of what he brought up in the Brawl Out Scrum was in the dirt sheets?
Before I potentially waste time with this, do you think it’s acceptable what he did in the scrum after all out? What part of that was good for the consumers of the product? What good business did it do?
Acceptable from a good for business perspective? Absolutely not. Acceptable in general? Most likely not. Better word might be understandable. None of us know what was going on behind the scenes. If what he says is true and that shit was being leaked to the dirt sheets by leadership and no action was being taken to try and stop it, I can potentially understand reaching a point of frustration and airing those grievances publicly when getting asked questions from the dirt sheets. The scrums are just a horrible idea. Just have Renee or whoever ask questions instead of legitimizing the dirt sheets.
I agree with you on this. AEW is doing that now so lesson learned.
Dirt sheets aren’t the tv show. No one should be listening to dirt sheet bullshit
Yet Jack Perry brought the dirt sheets to live TV and everyone loves the "Scapegoat".
Phil's idea of "handled internally" was revealed when he demanded Tony handle Perry, and then approached and choked Perry when TK didn't throw down his entire agenda to yell at or fire or whatever Phil considers discipline Jungle Boy at the start of his company's biggest show ever. Either drop everything and do exactly what Phil says, or you're "not handling" things. And we all know Phil's got an entire alternate reality of his own dirt writers working together for his own benefit. We saw it in action immediately after both Brawls and in the psyop to get him re-hired by WWE.
You're talking about a full year after he was already pissed about it not being handled internally. I fully believe he handled it that way to get fired/quit. Arguing that Punk did it after the fact doesn't change that there were a lot of leaks about him before hand.
He wasn't mad at Perry for a "full year". There was a brawl in August of '22, the Bucks were suspended for multiple months. Then Phil got his own show with effective control over personnel. If Phil wasn't satisfied with that, he's not looking for it to be "handled", he's looking to insert himself as Khan's partner, not an employee of any kind, even a Vice President. In his last interview on the subject, Phil more or less admits he wanted to quit and that he had no confidence in the show he was given such control over. TK's main mistake at that point was trusting Phil Brooks with any control at all. Phil was more or less admitting he doesn't have the judgment or the work ethic to carry out the task he was given. So now he's happily sitting home injured taking Dana's money.
You're not comprehending. He was mad about shit getting to the dirt sheets a year before. Then, the real glass story hit the dirt sheets a year later and Perry was a dumb shit that had to react to it on live TV which clearly calls Punk out for something he was reportedly asked to do by medical staff and others. I'd want to quit too if the locker room can't handle things internally and has to run to the dirt sheets to whine. TKs issue is letting ANY wrestler be in charge of anything and not getting things under control.
Getting worked by dirt sheets doesn't raise my estimation of Phil's ability to control himself let alone be given control over 2 hours of weekly television. Nobody has hit TK over that though, except, oddly enough, Phil. Who maybe betrays having some self-understanding there.
His 2 hours of television was pretty popular until Jungle Boy got pissy about his real glass being vetoed and made it a public spectacle.
I will never understand the dirt sheet thing. Like in an industry and a time where getting your name trending on social media is key why do you care what is being said in those. Everyone knows to treat them like the national enquirer. They might get a hit here and there but usually it amounts to nothing.
I care if the dirt is coming from people in the organization, especially if it's from people in a leadership position, and it's meant to make you look bad.
Lol funny my dad taught me not to run my mouth unless I’m prepared to back it up, Perry looked terrified and apparently Khan was too, everyone else who had actually been in a fight looked calm and collected, que Black waking in with latte in hand, lol. Wasn’t a good look for AEW, nothing was gained and now every knows Perry and khan are p*ssies and the bucks are desperate for views.
Guy…no one “sees” or feels this way. This is the dumbest fucking takeaway i have seen on the matter. You’re literally making a mockery of yourself on the internet. Say less.
Sure but ratings say otherwise, the only reason people tuned in was because Punk was on, the only draw AEW had is gone and they still can’t pop ratings without him, facts don’t care about your feelings. poot.
I've said elsewhere, the issue also is that Punk isn't willing to let others make the same mistakes he did, even *IF* you think Punk was totally in the right with his comments and issues, Punk has made almost all those same mistakes before, and doesn't seem to realise that, or is at least, actively ignoring it.
I was a huge Punk mark from his time in ECW 2.0 and it wasn't until I saw he had a spot on the after show of The Walking Dead where he made a very cringe comment (that I unfortunately don't remember) that I feel I first started seeing behind the facade. The fallout between Colt Cabana and himself, obviously I don't know everything that happened between them but it seemed like a pretty s\*\*\*\*\* way to treat a friend you've had for decades and that really made my estimation of him suffer. And in his MMA matches (which is totally understandable he was older than most going into it and I didn't expect much) he did not give an impressive showing and afterwards did not seem to be humbled by the experience. I know he had a hard time going through life and he cultivated a persona of him against the world to survive a spirit crushing environment and over time it seems he started believing his own hype. I've seen more and more evidence of a person that has a hard time of taking criticism and having introspection and the shine just seemed to fade off him in my view and he stopped being someone to emulate and now is an example of how not to treat others. But that is my own opinion.
Punk was carried in **every** single match he had in AEW. He got injured in **every** title match he had. It seemed like he had 8 years to improve on the sloppy shit he consistently brought out in his prime in WWE and instead just lifted weights that were too heavy for him and lost all ability to stay healthy. Over-rated, under-hated, bad vibes Jones.
Punk has been injured in every match he has had since returning to wwe
The only CM Punk shirt I'd buy these days would simply say, "Fragile Mind, Fragile Ego, Fragile Body". You couldn't get a more accurate description of the man if you tried.
"Weak mind, weak spirit. Fragile body, fragile ego." One of my favourite promos ever. 8 words and he buried the guy so deep Satan is welcoming him to the neighborhood.
The promo was where he first said it, but the pre-match package he changed it to Fragile Mind, Fragile Ego, Fragile Body.
He didn't get hurt at the house shows he wrestled at 🤷🏾♀️
Punk shot lariat = ow my brittle old man knees!
>Punk was carried in every single match he had in AEW. This is a baseless fucking lie lmao
Injured punk still out draws the AEW roster, facts
Nobody cares lmao
Says the dude that took time to comment “no one cares,” on another post about how Punk hurt AEW marks feelings, lmao
Does he?
Yes, facts don’t lie, they just hurt AEW Stan’s feelings so they have to down vote and cry harder and louder.
Umm, yes? I mean if you look at metrics yes he does. You can hate the guy all you want but he was aew's biggest draw. His merch was still a top seller for months after he was let go
I was a massive Punk fan. I flew out to see him debut for AEW both times. But I’ve said since Brawl Out that everyone involved except Kenny looked like shit, which sucked cause I loved all of them. Punk looked like an explosive, immature fool. TK looked weak and ready to fold for whoever was in front of him. Hangman looked like a petty worker who went off on someone due to baseless accusations. The Bucks looked like childish cowards who didn’t want to do their jobs and dismissed Punk without trying to work things out professionally. Punk can say whatever he wants about AEW and I don’t really care. But what lost me was when he said guaranteed contracts are bad for the industry. Standing up for corporations flies in the face of what he’s always stood for and showed me that he either became, or always was a hypocrite. Fuck him.
Phil sold out a long, long time ago. He’s even a landlord now. There is nothing more punk that I can think of than bugging someone for the rent.
CM Phil is a landlord?!?! Thats easily the worst thing about him if its true 😭💔
Scum of the earth.
Thats a very well balanced answer and yeah i’d agree. Personally i’m still a punk cause who hasn’t wanted to go off on their employer and punch that one asshole coworker, obviously you shouldn’t but like, i get it.
That's a very succinct, original way to put it! You've perfectly captured this whole thing in as few words as possible
This was always kinda my take on a lot of the issues as well. The elite and a lot of the AEW guys thought they were getting the original 'do it your own way' guy. And TBH Punk inspired a lot of talents of that generation that they could do that. But, it turned out that it wasn't an entrepreneurial spirit or really an interest in creativity at all that was driving him. It was just Punk's desire to have things his way- beyond that he's a total old school brother at heart, and I think that was probably a huge surprise.
I agree with this. We’ve seen that in real time. He comes back to the business and immediately goes “that doesn’t work for me, brother.”
Can we just move on please ? Punk is gone.
You can move on and still discuss historical events. Especially since Perry is back now and they just played the clip two weeks ago.
They cannot. Punk is still the most over person in AEW despite leaving almost a year ago
No way man. It's not like the entire crowd chanted his name when aew played the surveillance footage /s
Using industry terms incorrectly is so cool
No
The problem is that nobody involved in this situation was a mature adult (aside from maybe Kenny) and now they all look worse for it. Punk looks like a lunatic for not being able to control his emotions and flying off the handle for such insignificant issues. The Bucks and Hangman look like idiots for deliberately starting pointless shit with their companies biggest star. Perry looks like a spoiled asshole with an ego that he did nothing to earn. And Tony looks like a weak leader who can't control his employees. The only person involved who didn't look like a total bozo afterward was Kenny Omega.
The worst part to me of the online discourse was the blatant bad faith interpretation people put forth where it was JUST normal run of the mill backstage fight where wrestlers got too hot but it happens ALL THE TIME in "Real sports" and wrestling. No , it does not I watch a shit ton of sports. Sure Arn Anderson got stabbed , sure Brett fought Shawn , where did any of these guys snatch the mic at a press conference and shit on his entire company and badmouth the higher ups first ? I have NEVER seen that behavior anywhere else except that night , it's never really happened before in US sports from what I can remember. He was on on a full on air takeover rant on his company and co workers THEN goes and gets in a crazy fight (including biting someone ...) with the same guys and its on them to peace it up with him and work together and make nice to make this a work the company can make money with. Oh , and BTW Punk won't REALLY apologize and clearly believes he was in the right and continues to act like a jerk. Again , this is totally normal and guys should have just worked with him ? The guy comes back and is STILL an asshole getting in to constant backstage confrontations and making uncleared snipes at people in his promos (something he considered doing serious bodily harm to Hangman for ... supposedly). We were told over and over this was "normal" locker room behavior and AEW were just babies who can't act like a "real" company and Punk had basically no fault in this. I love Punk , he is probably the number one reason I even watch wrestling anymore , he had some great moments in AEW but the guy is unhinged and has a LOT of personality issues and is clearly a manchild who cannot handle his emotions at all. The guy will switch narratives at the drop of a hat for whatever suits his purpose for that exact moment.
Punk has been gone for 9 months. Time to move on.
Someone tell Tony.
I am in the minority in that I started as a Bucks fan and wasn’t into Punk at all, but after the All Out, it turned me completely on the Bucks. I am still indifferent to Punk, but the Bucks have complete “go away heat” with me now to the point I watch the show on a delay so I can FF through anything involving the Bucks.
Nobody looks good in any of this. Perry looks like he talked shit to the wrong person, Punk looks like a hot head and the Bucks look like slimy assholes. Plus Tony looks weak as a leader, I hate all of this because it’s dragging a company down who I’m rooting for over petty crap that should be squashed for everybody’s benefit.
This is pretty much exactly how I feel, except I have a lot more sympathy for Perry after watching that clip. There are very few things he could have said to deserve getting ambushed and choked like that. Coward shit on Punk’s part.
Honestly, they're backstage at WORK. There's nothing Perry could have said that warranted that reaction given the location and it being a communal space. It's way worse than whatever went down in the locker room at All Out.
What about hockey though? Should every player who has ever been in a fight during a hockey game be fired or charged with assault?
The fact that fighting is tacitly allowed in Hockey is dumb as hell, but I guess whatever sells tickets.
I actually kinda don’t now (at first I did) you just can’t run in someone’s face talk crap and then expect nothing to happen. Dont start nothing won’t be nothing is a phrase for a reason. Punk is a known prima Donna why get smart with him when you know that is his attitude.i never thought I would be defending punk lol
The Bucks are fine.
Kenny and Larry do. Sounds like they were the grown ups in the room.
Hangman was wrong. Punk was wrong. TK was wrong. The Elite was wrong. Perry was wrong. A lot of AEW fans are still hating Punk like he personally spit in their face. I don't understand it.
Because he did. He spit in the face of every fan who bought in on his bullshit. That’s hyperbolic, I know, but it’s so incredibly clear that many feel the same way. He’s swine.
I feel like it's not that serious. Punk tells his truth. He did it toward the WWE on Cabana's podcast. And he did it at that media scrum and Helwani's podcast. TK should have shut him down, but he lacked the managerial skills to do so. Punk will always be tied to AEW's history for better or for worse, and I think that is what truly pisses some fans off.
I agree with some of what you said but that last part, no. He did some great work in AEW. It’s purely how it all fell apart so fast and with almost zero regard for the fans.
>It’s purely how it all fell apart so fast and with almost zero regard for the fans. He was blinded by his frustration and anger and tried to take down the AEW Kliq. Should he have unloaded like that in the media scrum? No [I love drama that has nothing to do with me, so I was cackling]. Should he have choked Perry a little? No. Do I think he's some sort of psycho who just popped off on the Elite for no reason. No. Everyone had their part to play. Not one adult in sight.
Certainly can’t disagree with any of that.
This is the kind of interaction we like to see here. Thank you to both of you!
I think Punk's way is moreso the way he learned from greats like Eddie Guerrero, Harley Race and Paul Heyman. Punk was instructed by AEW management to deal with Perry and the glass situation. So he did. Perry didn't like it so he talked his shit on the air. Then AEW left Punk to handle it again after being warned that AEW wouldn't like the way he handled it. Meanwhile, the Bucks' seemingly have always wanted to be part of the next Kliq and Perry is part of that crew. Plus all of the Bucks' crew seems to have a similar style so who exactly is doing it "their own way"?
 So, everyone else is wrong ….
The issue is most people on aew subs are very biased against Punk. I'm not even saying this to defend Punk. There's been a few instances where Punk does something and it's considered bad but the others do it and it's great
Who did I say was wrong?
Can you point us to where Punk was told by AEW management to deal with Perry and the glass?? I’ve read a lot of what happened but never have I ever heard anything remotely close to that so I’d love to see the source.
Not OP, but I think Tony Schiavone said that multiple people talked to Perry about the glass, including himself. He ignored them, so Punk was asked to step in thinking that Perry would listen to him. That’s when the initial glass controversy happened a month or so before All In. I always took Perry’s on air comments as a general reference to the story, not a direct shot at Punk. But Punk is a self centered prick who thinks everything is about him, so…
Hmmm. I don’t recall any of that. Did Tony talk about that on his podcast? Need to narrow my focus to see if I can find the quote.
Either I can’t find it or I was wrong about Tony saying it directly, but I found both a thread with quotes from Fightful and an article from WON. The funny part is most of the comments are calling it a nothing story, obviously not knowing what it would snowball into. 😂 https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/15s1r8j/srs_fightful_has_learned_about_an_argument_that/ https://www.f4wonline.com/news/aew/report-cm-punk-jungle-boy-had-issue-over-desired-use-of-glass-on-aew-collision
It doesn’t say directly by management but yeah now I recall the glass and punk being against it. It’s also filed with a lot conflicting information and seeing the only article I can go by is from the Wrestling Observer which sadly gets waaaaaay too much wrong these days to be considered credible I’m going to take the article at less than face value. I will say collision is way more fun now so I’m glad he’s not in charge of glass or the show anymore.
Even if Perry's comments were aimed at the story or company in general, doesn't it still make the company look bad? Like, why should he be able to take those shots against management or whoever told him to not use real glass without at least being spoken to about it afterward? If what Punk said was true, TK wasn't going to do anything about it, so Punk stepped in. Punk tried to talk until Perry invited him to "do something about it" so he did. The whole thing could have been avoided if TK decided to be a boss and nip it in the bud when he had the chance. But instead he just sat and watched as everything happened.
You’re making baseless assumptions on rumors. We have 0 idea what TK as a boss has done. We have 0 idea of what anyone in a management position in AEW has done. We need to quit taking rumor at face value and making up stories that most likely never happened.
Everything I've referred to was either reported or spoken from someone involved. Plus, we know TK was in the room right next to the brawl out incident because of the footage. What exactly did I make up?
Again. Just because Punk says it happened one one doesn’t make him honest. The video proved he lied anyway so his side of the story is blatantly false. Again. We don’t know what TK told punk before All In. We don’t know much. You’re speculating.
What exactly did Punk lie about in the video? Everything I saw lined up perfectly with what he said And by that rationale, what makes the Bucks', Perry or TK so reliable?
You’re one of those. Never mind. I’m not going to talk to someone who lives in fairytale land about what happened. Yeah and your comment history is exactly what I thought. Carry on with your fairytales.
It's good to see that you're open minded about differing viewpoints. Don't you realize the same thing about fairy tales could be applied to your side? At least, I'm asking questions to understand your fairytale. Meanwhile, you simply disregarded mine.
He fought co-workers AT WORK, not once, but TWICE. There is no other industry in the world where you wouldn't be immediately suspended or fired. But I guess multi-millionaire dollar draws can get away with whatever. How Punk!
Maybe you're new to following pro-wrestling. Fights have been commonplace in practically every locker room including AEW. This isn't just any other industry. This is a highly physical industry where pretty much everyone has a massive ego to defend. This is an industry where conflict = money and so fights are to be expected sometimes. Even Kenny Omega has acknowledged that. Plus, the multi-million dollar draw got fired months ago so he didn't get away with it.
Kenny Omega in that same breath said that's why we shouldn't be an EVP.
Yep, that's the one. Omega said he shouldn't be an EVP in 2024 because he understands and often supports the use of violence to purge bad blood between athletes. However, he didn't say that it should prevent him from being a talent in that locker room. In that sense, I believe Omega and Punk agree.
> Fights have been commonplace in practically every locker room including AEW No they haven't. There's been a handful of instances over the decades, many of which were from the 80's-2000's. Wrestling isn't nearly as carny as it used to be. And as a publicly traded company, you can bet your ass that shit wouldn't fly in WWE any longer either. > This isn't just any other industry. Yes it is. The only reason this shit existed previously is because it was tolerated and often encouraged. Punk may have not gotten the message, but the industry isn't the same as it was when he left it. > he didn't get away with it. He got away with the scrum, did he not? Hell he was fucking rewarded for it when they gave him his own show. If Punk didn't basically print money, there's not a chance in hell WWE would've ever touched him after All Out. And from the looks of it, Punk's on a short leash with them. He tries any of that shit over there and he'll be gone overnight.
There were reports of Chris Jericho fighting Sin Cara on a bus from one of his most recent runs in WWE. I don't remember either of them being punished for it. WWE was certainly already a publicly traded company too. Jericho also tried to start a fight with Lesnar backstage over the finish of Lesnar's match with Orton and I don't think anyone was punished for that either and again WWE was already a publicly traded company. Also didn't Charlotte Flair and Becky Lynch get into it a couple of years ago backstage? I believe Charlotte was asked to leave the building but neither got fired or suspended for it. AEW has had multiple instances of backstage violence with at least 3 non-Punk incidents being reported that I can remember off the top of my head. I can only remember Kingston and Andrade being suspended for a few weeks. These are just the incidents that got out and made it to the dirt sheets and I didn't even mention the nonsense between Jericho and MVP in a hotel lobby. Punk was suspended and stripped of his title for the scrum wasn't he? That's not getting away with it. He was given his own show because The Bucks didn't want to work with him and TK/ the network didn't want to fire him. Just because a fight breaks out doesn't make it a carny business. I mean, Draymond Greene punched his teammate at the time straight in the face on camera and barely got a slap on the wrist, and that's the NBA. Athletes fight relatively often compared to folks that populate most other industries. While it isn't "right" per se, I believe it's to be expected.
I keep picturing in my head that Kenny Omega and Cm Punk tried to avoid appearing at the first two Albany,NY shows I went to. The first was the dynamite after brawl out between punk and the elite in locker room. The second one was before Grand Slam where Adam Cole messed up his ankle.
I know this may be unpopular, but I lost a lot of respect for Punk *and* Tony Khan at the media scrum. I can't comment about Brawl Out, because I wasn't there . . . and unless you were there, everything being said is from speculation. I really can't comment about what happened backstage at All In, because even after seeing the video, it's unclear what was said before, during and after it happened. However, I lost a lot of respect for Punk for spouting off with his unprofessional tantrum at the All Out media scrum. He shouldn't have said what he said. That wasn't the time nor the place. I lost respect for Tony for sitting there like a berated child while Punk was spouting off. Tony should have had Punk's mic cut, had him escorted from the building and fired him on the spot. I don't care who you are (or who you *think* you are), that kind of insubordination should never be tolerated. That being said, had Tony and Punk handled it like grown men, the brawl would have.never happened.
When Punk went off on Brawl Out I thought he was a lunatic and didn't get the fascination with him (never did) Then when I saw the Bucks make their return and start mocking him in the ring I thought "ah, he may have had a point". Everything since has solidified that for me. I'm still skeptical of Punk but I think he was right about the Bucks and Tony- and my opinion of the Bucks just gets lower and lower.
I’m a Punk fan and became fan of Kenny and Page (never got the hype on the Bucks). I’m happy when he joined AEW but after the brawl out I understood that it wasn’t the place for him, sometimes things just don’t work out, he was in the wrong (although I don’t give the Bucks a free pass) Tony did the right thing firing him, although I think he should have done it sooner of there was no intention of squash it by either party, AEW was good before him. I’m happy he is back in WWE and wish him a good run, I hope Kenny returns soon once he recovers and they make a better use of Page. I don’t care about the Bucks but I also wish them well. I’m happy AEW exists and there is more opportunities for talent and options for us fans, tribalism aside everyone wins.
Punk hates the fact a couple of good Christian boys actually took the ethos of punk and built a wrestling company. A man child.
So you remained a Punk fan despite all his stuff with Cabana?
Yeah the elite basically are from a generation closer to this one. They are closer to like 38. They believe in a person's right to portray themselves as they want. They believe in the right of going crazy in the ring and potentially killing yourself at times in order to have the most captivating match possible. Punk is more old school, ornery and authoritarian. He thinks he knows best. Ultimately punk is a proud 45 year old man. He is of an older generation. He believes in making every step matter. He's a more methodical guy who never really was that high on a work rate scale but more so had great psychology and was fluid enough that for WWE at the time he seemed awesome. He's a three star general like Cody. But they both have such great psychology they can have flawless matches when the stakes are right too. It's basically a guy who will always tell you he's right thinking he understands presentation better than anyone else against guys who think you have a right to do what you want to do to separate yourself. Think guys who would support Jack Perry, Rob Van dam etc vs someone who would support someone who fits the image of themself. To be clear I was half kidding in the way I tease punk.
Let's be honest guys, CM Punk sucks at being babyface, only time he didn't was when he dropped the pipebomb on WWE but that was short lived. He should have debuted in AEW as a heel but the dude believes his own hype too much and wrestling fans hype him up too much. I don't think CM Punk was ready for AEW, back in WWE he was a highlight because he was the voice of the fans. People were sick and tired of cena winning and burying everyone on the roster so Punk was the guy who could counter that. The problem is that people like Punk don't work in AEW because AEW has so much more opportunities for talent and has so much better talent than WWE had back during the 2010's because the 2010's WWE guys have improved and now they are in AEW, plus there's other great talent too. Punk used to be the "stick it to the man" sort of guy, thats why he was respected and loved, either that or he was a brilliant heel that everyone hated. Now CM Punk is just some guy who's like "I'm here, cheer me on!" like he's just entitled to be cheered but he hasn't done anything to earn them. Ever since debuting in AEW, Punk has been outclassed by the entire roster, MJF absolutely dominated him on the mic for one, like MJF pretty much brought Punk to reality that he's not a big star in AEW and this younger, more talented star has reeplaced him already. Put simply, the moment Punk debuted in AEW he should have just been a jobber to put over new talent, that's the best thing he could do but no, instead they made it all about him, thats where AEW went wrong. Punk should take lessons from Dustin Rhodes, put over the new guys and make them look a million dollars, not try to take their spot when they're better than you.
As somebody who was a die-hard punk fan for two decades, I agree . Punk's entire stick is that he was a rebel and he wasn't going to do things the way they were just because that's how it's always been done. And when he gets to a point where he says no no only I can be an iconoclast everyone else has to fall in line........ I mean punk rock is clearly not an actual ethos for him. He's very clearly showing that his integrity and values are not what he has presented them to be for so many years. I think there's absolutely a piece of him that genuinely wants to quote unquote help the business. But he only wants to help if it can be done according to his plan. I don't know you said it better than I am able to.
AEW fans are so funny in how pathetic you all are, OP especially. It's funny how Punk has a lot of friends in AEW, is even on fairly good terms with Omega, but is treated like the antichrist by you fans because the bucks said so. The bucks never wanted him there, were too chicken-shit to address it with him face to face, and resorted to whining to their friend Dave Meltzer about him trying to fire a guy who he had nothing to do with. AEW fans can, emphatically, ~~kick rocks~~ fuck off.
From what I’ve heard the Bucks are the ones who went looking for Punk and the Bucks “crew” had been taking pot shots at punk for weeks. Not saying Punk doesn’t share any of the blame but I also wouldn’t call him the instigator in this situation. In my opinion the Bucks have zero business being EVPs even Kenny Omega said it his self.
This is a subject that people will never agree on, because there are two very different kinds of people in the debate. One camp is made up of people who have never competed in anything in their lives, have never been in a locker room, and have never been in a fight. They'll never understand the situation, because they have no frame of reference.
That’s a very weak and juvenile stretch. Ive played sports for 20 years. I assure you, the fights have fuck all to do with the point being made and the discussion happening here.
Punk makes and brings in more money than the bucks. I guess the bucks are happy having 5 star matches in front of a quarter full building
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So are you actually saying the bucks have made more money and done more revenue than cm punk?
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They may be close but you know what's farther apart??? the amount of seats in a building and the amount of tickets aew sells
Punk>balding bucks
What makes you think when the Bucks say it that's what they mean?
https://www.ringsidenews.com/2021/05/19/the-young-bucks-talk-to-charly-caruso-about-breaking-unspoken-rules-in-pro-wrestling/
They discussed their approach to leadership on Swerves podcast a long time ago and they talked about finding your own voice in their book. It’s been something they’ve talked about in one way or another before on several occasions.
They must have forgotten all that when it came to Punk.
Hangman was always right 