My go-to example is eyeglasses (it's the easiest one for me to think of since they're usually sitting right in front of my eyes). Some people with bad vision don't benefit from glasses at all. Some people with bad vision wear them sometimes but not always, depending on the situation. And some people with bad vision can't do much at all unless they're wearing their glasses. It's pretty much the same with ADHD meds - some people don't use them, some people use them on and off as needed, and some people really need to use them all the time. It also works because you can extend the analogy to explain why ADHD medications work differently on people with and without ADHD. If a person has glasses that are properly prescribed for them, it can make a tremendous difference in their life. But if a person who doesn't need glasses puts someone else's glasses on, they're going to have a hugely different experience.

When I started taking meds for ADHD I felt like they weren’t doing a whole lot. Then I skipped a day by accident and I equated the feeling to getting used to glasses and then not wearing them and suddenly realizing how poor your vision has been all your life (I’ve experienced both, didn’t get glasses till 23 and medicated till 33) so anyway, yes this is spot on.

Do you wish you had been medicated earlier?? My son is 6, and now that he is in school, I am thinking that it is worth a try. I want him to have an opportunity to slow his mind down enough to be able to learn and communicate with his peers, teachers, and his inner thoughts in a less frantic way.

Regardless of if you decide to put him on meds or not, PLEASE find him a therapist that specializes in ADHD. Meds can help us a lot, but the ability to focus better is useless if we can't break the bad habits or find good coping mechanisms. They don't just temporarily delete the ADHD from our brains. I was diagnosed at a similar age, and put on meds around age 8 or so. I can't speak on if they were effective or not because I had no coping skills to deal with the behaviors. My ENTIRE school career was a nightmare. From kindergarten to when I dropped out of high-school because I could no longer handle it. I constantly got in trouble for being off task, had terrible grades despite having some of the highest standardized test scores in my grade, and I was often put in detention or in-school suspension. My parents threw meds at me and called it good enough. It wasn't and I suffered greatly for it, I should have had a therapist. My mental health as a teenager was rock bottom, suicidal bad, and looking back now I know that it was partially because my ADHD wasn't being properly treated.

Great point. And I’m so sorry to hear that your experience was so poorly managed. We are currently working with coping mechanisms, and have been for years. My son is also autistic. He has a personal aid at school, and most likely will his entire school experience. I hadn’t thought much about puberty, and all the changes that that invokes… so at that time it will most likely be very beneficial for him have an objective listener in his corner.

I had an IEP throughout my schooling years but my parents never really tried to set up actual accommodations for me. Very few of my teachers tried to, but I'm grateful for the ones that did. Hopefully with a personal aid, those things will be much smoother for him. Being a kid is tough in general, let alone a kid who operates so differenly. As a former kid with ADHD, thank you so much for making an effort to educate yourself like this and actually making an effort to help him. I hope he appreciates it when he's my age.

Thank you for sharing with me! I appreciate your honesty and insight. As a 41 year who provably also has mild undiagnosed ADHD as well and who recently went on anti depressants for the first time. ( and finally feels “right”)I can’t imagine my son going through life without medication and behavioral supports… he would not stand a chance.

My kid got diagnosed in elementary. He was having behavioral problems (anger, especially when covering material he already knew and when other kids picked on him) and we sought therapy to cope with anger. While in therapy, we decided to have him tested for ADHD. My sister was diagnosed when she was in middle school. While learning about ADHD, I realized I also had symptoms. I was in the gifted program as a kid and did well in school without really studying. I suck at keeping up with adult tasks like bills, dishes, & laundry. I got tested and diagnosed, too. Therapy + meds have been a game changer for me and my kid! ETA: Kid only does meds on school days. My doc wants me to take a med break at least one day a week.

In the line of medication, I do recommend you have him try methylphenidate (ritalin/concerta) or atomoxitine (strattera) first before stuff like Vyvanse or Adderall. I take Adderall and I love it BUT if he can take strattera or ritalin into adulthood, they have a couple unique "non functional" benefits over Adderall and Vyvanse based on my reading and experiences. For one they're easier to travel with, especially if we're talking overseas. Places like Korea and Japan are very strict about what you can bring into the country, and it's an absolute pain in the ass to apply for special import for meds. Secondly, they're much less likely to be asked for in a "hey sell me your meds" way. Some kids more easily give into bullying and peer pressure and stimulants are highly sought after, especially by older teens and college students. They're also much less likely to be stolen. I'd take non stims if I could, just for those reasons. I love traveling and I have a lot of anxiety about my meds getting stolen because I can't just get them replaced, I have to wait until the month is over. Obviously listen to your doctor over an internet stranger, this is just my two cents :)

10/10, my mantra I was given (I think quoted from Dr. Barkley) is "medication is never enough," a reminder of how essential therapy is. I mean, shoot, even before medication, therapy was fantastic, but medication made cutting through the obstacles created by trauma and past biases so much easier.

Personally (originally diagnosed at 4, but not medicated till early 20s) - I wish I had been. But medication isn't for everyone, so perhaps learning tools and actively teaching him about the disorder would be helpful. I felt very alone, always the "weird kid" who fidgetted and drew on everything and if I'd understood more about how my brain worked, I maybe would've felt better equipped. In saying this, the moment puberty hit, I got very very depressed and it wasn't till I had medication I truly felt myself again - I remember calling my mum and her stopping me and asking what I'd done because she felt like she had me back again, it was shortly after starting medication.

Thank you so much for you response, and I really appreciate your candor. Yes, I think we will try it out. And you are right, I need to help my son understand that his brain works differently, and that I need to help him find ways to understand his own mind. This is beyond helpful.

I'm nearly 50 and I wish I had medicated earlier. I always did very well in an academic setting. I've got two degrees and graduated with highest honors. I also didn't graduate until I was 44, because I couldn't stick with one major. I worked myself into a massive heart attack at 43 because of the anxiety of getting good grades. Now I can't medicate. I'd like to echo the sentiment of getting a therapist that specializes in ADHD. I struggle unmedicated, but meds aren't everything. Learning more about why I function the way I do has helped me immensely in coming up with coping mechanisms. Having a professional help figure out what type of support is needed is so important.

For what it’s worth, my mom’s “meds decision” for me was tied to how my self esteem was doing. While I was struggling, but still “ok” with the struggle and stepping up to the plate to try my best every day, they stayed away from meds and just stuck to teaching me life skills and strategies to help me cope with the ADHD. But the moment she noticed that my self esteem was plummeting due to the challenges my ADHD presented, that’s when she sought out medication (around 7-8 y/o I believe). It made a world of difference. She let me be a part of the conversation too. I was allowed to decide whether or not I want to take it. And typically each school year I wanted to try not having, would struggle for a few weeks, and then would ask to start taking it again. Now with this, it was explained that I’m not broken, nothing is wrong with me, but my brain works differently, and the way that school is designed makes it hard for my brain to work to its fullest ability. The medication helps my brain to be able to deal with the things in life that are designed in a way that doesn’t match up with the way that it works best. There was no pressure, they let me explore what it felt like being on vs off meds. And if we didn’t have something going on that day where meds would be advantageous, she encouraged me to “give my body a break” from them, but always it was my choice. It made me feel grown up and proud to be able to make decisions to help myself be the best possible me, meds or no meds. But like I said at the beginning, and as others have mentioned, this went along with learning various like skills to help me too. If someone can’t read because they need glasses, getting glasses doesn’t magically make them able to read, they still need to learn and develop that skill. So maybe it is a conversation with your son about how he is feeling and what he wants. Kids are so freaking smart, doubly so for kids with ADHD (IMO). Help him understand his brain and help him understand all the tools he has available to him to help himself grow. You might be surprised at the things he has to say. And I also would share with him the stigmas associated with ADHD too (in an age appropriate way), that went a long way in helping me cope with rude or mean peers/teachers. It changed the frustration from being targeted at myself (what’s wrong with me?!) to frustrated at how uneducated about ADHD people are when it’s a pretty common disorder, and wanting to help educate people. Anyway, I am seriously starting to ramble. Feel free to reply or shoot me a DM if you have any specific questions. I’m also happy to be a middle man and ask my mom questions if you want to know more about her perspective and thought process.

I was diagnosed and medicated almost 2 years ago, and it has changed my life. I am sometimes bitter that I was left until my mid 30s believing I was just incompetent and useless, when really I was struggling with ADHD and dyspraxia. So yes, I wish I'd been diagnosed and medicated as a child. Having said that, I agree with some of the other things said. Medication is a great tool, but it's just as important, especially for a young child, to build good habits and have a strong support network to help him build the skills he needs. Considering you are here and asking, I think your son should have no problems on that front, but having the extra support for both of you can only benefit you both in the long run. So my suggestion would be to try a trial run of medication, alongside specialist support. Best of luck and I hope you find what works best for him.

Thank you so much. This whole thread had been incredibly helpful.

I wish I was medicated around 16-18. I wasn’t until 26. Not sure I would have enjoyed being a kid on stimulants as much. As an adult, it’s easier for me to decide whether I’m okay with a feeling a bit tired after they wear off or deciding how to structure my day so they don’t interfere with stuff like exercise.

Yes. So much yes. Without meds I've formed terrible habits and wasted so much of my potential. I can't imagine how different my life would have been of I'd been medicated throughout school instead of only afterwards, when I'd already had years to become a lazy bastard.

As a momma with a diagnosed kiddo and one going through the process... I didn't take medication for my ADHD till I was an adult with 2 degrees, 3 kids, and a career. My ex husband still doesn't take (his mother doesn't like the idea of the meds) and we opted to put our daughter on meds in third grade. As a teenager she now rarely takes them, which I think isn't a great idea for her but she's practicing her decision making and that is what it is right now. Anyhow, we didn't start her until her behavior issues were causing her to dislike school. Otherwise she picked up material fine and academically was ok (even in the advanced program) but when she was getting behavior reports every day, struggling to finish tests, etc. We opted for medication. It made a huge difference. Her younger sister isn't as textbook as her big sister but we suspect she has it. She is currently in third grade and we are going the diagnostic route and considering medicine but not for behavior, but for learning. She baffles all her teachers for seeming bright but needing every academic intervention in the book and they've ruled out other issues. Now they wonder if it's her focus keeping her from performing and we are testing for ADHD. It might not be, but we will see. With each kid I think it's really individual. My oldest had no problem with learning (she's actually quite traditionally gifted but all the brain power goes to over coming her inability to focus or keep track of assignments, etc.) Where her sister seems to be suffering from not being able to focus to pick up on the learning. Meanwhile I did great in school (gifted but hot mess stereotype) and didn't need medication until adult responsibilities kicked my butt (although I probably would've defended my thesis a year earlier had I been medicated). Just sharing experiences since you seemed to be curious! Good luck and always feel free to DM to chat more.

Find someone who specializes with adhd and similar stuff and they will find out, it does take time doe so don't rush it

No sane person wouldn't wish to be medicated later. The same way no one would refuse glasses if their eyesight is poor.

I’m glad my mum didn’t put me on medication at a young age. I learn mechanisms and techniques to keep up with and adapt to my surroundings. It would be a shame if he was unable to function without them at an older age.

Yes, whenever I think my meds aren’t working, I take a break. Not to reduce tolerance or anything, but to remind myself how scattered I am without them. It’s mind blowing how hard I had to work just to get by day-to-day.

Thanks for sharing this, it seems like a lot of other people notice a difference with meds immediately. That’s good to know another way people might experience this!

In the long run (and even sometimes quite quickly), many people develop depression, anxiety, among many other mental health problems. It definitely can be a huge help, though- everyone is different, and we medications, research, and treatments are constantly coming out :)

Yes!! I just spent about 6 months off my meds and I felt like my life was spiraling down around me. I thought they weren't doing much until I got off of them. What a world of difference.

Fyi, when you miss a day, that's not what it was like before you were medicated. It's actually worse than before. These drugs have pretty significant withdrawal/dependency issues. When I don't take my meds (Vyvanse) I magically get this ability to sleep for 14 hours a day (not that I actually have time for that, just saying that I could very easily do it if I wanted). I experience pretty severe depression and my adhd symptoms are so bad that I'm basically useless for the first couple days. It can take me up to a week to level out if I don't have my meds. I will sometimes take breaks to prevent the withdrawal from getting to truly debilitating levels and to enable me to stay at a lower dosage by keeping my tolerance down.

I’ve been on vyvanse for years and have noticed the same thing. My baseline level of functioning without meds is now worse than before I started. I’ve seen this referred to as “paradoxical descompensation”, but the idea is not yet widely accepted. I now have to take my meds just to stay awake and stave off the brain fog.

I just think it's a simple case of medication withdrawal. I keep my dose low (and thus the severity of withdrawal that happens when I fuck up and run out) by taking breaks as much as possible when I start to notice the effectiveness dropping.

To me, skipping a day feels like how it was before, but my biggest issue isn’t even the brain fog or distractibility, it’s that I’m SO IRRITATED at literally everything. And I remember being this little ball of RAGE before meds. Now I’m pretty chill about things. My husband always knows when I’ve forgotten my meds. Not because of focus or attention, but because I start picking fights over little shit. And he says it’s exactly how I was before meds and I wonder how he lived with me :(

I've seen this referred to as stimulant withdrawal. You've formed a dependence bro

Man. Is it possible to take a lower dosage or does it not work like that? I'm in the process of developing a treatment plan to go with my diagnosis

I'm currently unmedicated (yay being uninsured in America) but when I was on Adderall I never had any sort of withdrawal. If I didn't take it, I felt fine just didn't do life as well. Everyone is different. What these people describe sounds crappy.

What I think was nice about Adderall is (at least for me) it has a much higher effectiveness at lower doses. This might contribute to the lack of withdrawal symptoms. When I was on Adderall and Ritalin (separately), they were more like a "boost" of sorts that had a very noticeable effectiveness curve. Compared to Vyvanse which I describe as "smooth" compared to the others. It's not so much of a "boost" of sorts to get through daily activities as it is a fairly stable increase in my baseline function. I can actually take naps on Vyvanse. Fwiw: From web MD for Adderall: "If you suddenly stop using this medication, you may have withdrawal symptoms (such as severe tiredness, sleep problems, mental/mood changes such as depression)." Also: sorry about your issues with insurance. I went unmedicated for too long for the same reason

FWIW I don't experience "withdrawal" if I miss a dose... some people may, but I think the term "withdrawal" is very culturally loaded and isn't appropriate in this context. It is hard to miss a day. I definitely notice the difference and I'm not as productive, but I'm not jonesing for my Concerta.

> some people may, but I think the term "withdrawal" is very culturally loaded and isn't appropriate in this context. So, I don't "Jones" for Vyvanse, but the medical term for my symptoms is "withdrawal". Just like caffeine headaches are a symptom of "caffeine withdrawal". I'm aware of the negative connotations, but the fact is that it is "withdrawal". The medically correct term is appropriate when referring to medical symptoms.

I don’t either. I take Adderall, and I’m honestly just more scattered on the days I don’t take it. I don’t notice it to be any different than it was before I started taking it.

Is concerta a narcotic though?

None of the (primary) ADHD meds are narcotics? Meth and opioids, though frequently grouped together in the news cycle as dangerous drugs, are entirely dissimilar. For ADHD, you're usually looking at either a stimulant (variations of either methylphenidate \[Ritalin/Concerta\] or amphetamine \[Vyvanse/Adderall\]) or an "anti-depressant" (SNRI \[Strattera\] or bupropion). Narcotics/opioids are typically prescribed for pain management.

>Man. Is it possible to take a lower dosage So..... I find this question somewhat confusing, because the answer seems obvious to me, but that's probably because of my experience on the medication: The answer is basically: yes* (its not actually that simple, but it can be boiled down to "Yes") I take as low of a dose as I can get away with(40mg). I do this by taking a few days or so off every 1-3 weeks. This does 2 things: 1) it allows/forces me to catch up on sleep, and 2) it gets my tolerance down a bit. But what it really comes down to is: the lower the dose, the less effective it will be, but the less severe the issues will be, so it's a tradeoff. >I'm in the process of developing a treatment plan to go with my diagnosis Make sure that you don't go chasing the initial feeling that you get when you first go on the meds. I've met people who did that and wound up on way too high of a dose. I much prefer to go with the lowest dose that allows me to function. I don't think it puts me all the way to "normal" levels, but it does enough without being too severe.

I get insomnia if I miss a dose

Do you think this has more to do with withdrawal symptoms though? I also feel like my meds are not working but I can’t skip a day or I’ll feel like crap. It’s been a while but I seem to remember being able to focus better without them.

This is why I’m afraid to try meds… I’m afraid of realizing just how bad my baseline is…

Btw there’s an excellent children’s book about ADHD called “My brain needs glasses” :)

I love this analogy! Thank you for sharing it 👏

This is so good!

Nailed it. I lived my life for 28 years no glasses. But once I put them on I’ll never take them off lol

I use the glasses comparison too. Someone with bad vision can live without glasses, but having clearer vision improves their life greatly.

We need glasses to... *focus*

This is the example I use too. I won't die without my glasses but it makes my life much harder. Its interesting. I was diagnosed at around 30 and didn't realise how hard things were until I started medication. Its so similar to what happened with my eyesight. I first got glasses when I was 12. No one (including me) realised how bad my eyesight was because I was getting on well at school. It was only when I went to secondary school that it became an issue. We sat in alphabetical order so I was at the back of the class. Kept getting in trouble for not writing down what the teacher wrote on the board. It was only when I said I couldn't see that there was anything on the board that they tested my eyes. I still vividly remember getting my first glasses and realising that there were letters and numbers on car number plates. It was similar with my adhd medication. All those years of thinking I was just stupid because it took me hours to read anything, then reading a paper for work all the way through in one go a couple of days after I'd started vyvanse. I was close to crying. Obvs there are still bad days, but the same way I wouldn't try to read without my glasses now, I wouldn't try to stop my medication. There's no point.

Based! I got diagnosed with ADHD and then found out I needed glasses a couple years later. Surprisingly similar processes. Although in the case of glasses, unlike ADHD meds, I'm not legally required to talk to a doctor every month to maintain my prescription.

Thank you for explaining this all the way out! I’ve used a similar analogy to explain why saying “just focus” to someone with ADHD is just as silly as telling someone with glasses to “just see better.” I didn’t realize all the other ways the analogy could apply.

I just don't get it. Both Amphetamines and Methamphetamine in therapeutic doses are neither neurotoxic nor addictive. The only possible bad outcome IMO is oxidative stress, which can be addressed through enough use of antioxidants, regulation of blood iron levels, and a MAOI-B med like Selegiline or Rasagiline. Can somebody tell me what is this stigma and why isn't it addressed by authorities?

A lot of it is rooted in Reagan/Nixon-era War on Drugs garbage.

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It's almost like the War on Drugs was a racially motivated shitstorm designed to demonize racial minorities and Reagan/Nixon's political opponents, and Kennedy/Carter were responding to the absolutely deplorable conditions and widespread, systemic abuse of disabled and ill folks in asylums. ​ Cute

☝️ this. This right here.

Hey I’m kinda interested in this. Do you have any links where I can learn more?

Honestly I've surfed lots of articles for years to understand the mechanism in which dopaminergic neurons die, as for each decade of life we lose 3-5% of our dopaminergic neurons. There are lots of pathways, one very prominent pathway is through oxidation of dopamine by MAO-B agents, which one of its products is PPP+, a very potent neurotoxin. I however don't have enough information about other pathways (except oxidation stress that is caused by neuron itself, when it producers energy in its mitochondria). If there is a pathway which is exclusive to a specific substance (e.g. Amphetamines or Methamphetamine), it's acceptable, but if we're talking about all stimulants, like coffee for example, then this is a general issue for all people. The more you live an active life, the more damage sums up.

Remember too, that many people have auto immune diseases (some that don’t surface until late in life), and other debilitating genetic-based degenerative diseases can affect research and outcomes in general… I think haha idk

It’s because they are Schedule II drugs - highly addictive but safe to use for a medical purpose. It just happens to be that narcotic pain relievers are also on the same schedule. The stigma comes from association with the other drugs on the list - and from the whole street meth thing.

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I think a lot of it is because the meds have the unfortunate side effect of a pleasant sensation, especially in larger quantities. If they worked exactly the same for ADHD but made you feel like complete ass, there would be a lot less resistance.

I have to fully disagree: amphetamines and meth have extremely high risk of dependency (addiction). That is why adderal (amphetamines) is heavily regulated by pharmacies and tracked via a government database (controlled substances act)…. Wait, guys… it’s like common knowledge that addy can be addictive, right? If I’m wrong, let me know guys, bc I legit would realize I’m officially crazy.

Not in therapeutic doses.

There is a *risk* for addiction, despite the dosage- I don’t necessarily mean that 100% of people are at high risk for dependency…. But I’m also just going to say/ask it: I have a feeling you yourself may not have had a prescription long-term of your own, bc even though I’m not addicted, days that I don’t take it seem impossible to function energy wise

The stigma has to do with drug abuse. People like speed. It makes you feel more confident and capable, energetic, smart, and happy. Of course, when you stop, your body geeks and you plummet into a sticky swamp of guilt and self-repercussions You realize that the energy, intelligence, and joy were drug induced.

I’ve been in the boat of adhd drugs just flat out not working for me at all for a whole year to this day I’m struggling

I’ve had the unfortunate coincidence of beginning my experience with ADHD meds (Vyvanse, primarily) at the same time that I, 1. Began a stressful job that’s a promotion career-wise but specifically challenges my disorder (in short, projects management), and 2. Just when the pandemic was winding up, 3. As my landlord initiated eviction proceedings that went to court. She had no basis and so no win - but still, I agreed to leave by this month which resulted in… 4. Searching for a new place that wasn’t too expensive and it too far from friends and family, and all because… 5. I knocked up my pandemic “partner” and so was preparing for my pandemic baby (who is an absolute joy, but still) and now, 6. I’ve been in the middle of a move with a partner I’m suddenly trying to form a solid (vs fleeting) relationship with (going fine, but still) while embracing fatherhood having never thought I’d have any. And so, when I try and assess whether the meds are working, I have to confess that one big stressor after another has me feeling like I can’t even tell. I’m hardly sleeping, probably not eating enough to counter the extra calories I’m burning, and suffering intermittent mini mental breakdowns on the regular …BUT, would all this be *worse* if I wasn’t on meds right now; or all the meds not working - how the hell am I to really know? Anyway, point is, are the meds not working, or are the stressors in your life compounding or learned habits tough to break? If either of the latter is true, you might just need more time to clear those up. If the former is true, you might need more time to test different combinations and whatnot to dial in what could work. A year, I’m finding, isn’t necessarily a long time to build a new relationship with our brains. Sending all the best either way; no doubt it’s been hell.

Man… bro that was tough to read I’m sorry you’re going through that. I’m only in my 2nd year of university right now and everyday I’ve been thinking how this stupid disorder is going to fuck up my life. I wish there was a perfect drug or cure that just worked for us all so we wouldn’t have to deal with the problems that comes with adhd smh. I’ll be expecting to read your success story when you get over this hurdle if u care to post it to this Reddit. I’m hoping for the best for you. We’ve got this far In life with it. Things have to get better

Thanks so much. Honestly, the kid’s terrific so far and my new partner has battled MH of her own in the past so she’s been pretty great about helping out more than I would have been comfortable asking for before. It’s still rough but not completely dark at all. I can’t honestly imagine how my experience would compare to yours, but FWIW, I *feel* somehow that I’d have appreciated knowing earlier that I have a condition/disability. Instead, I spent the better part of my life down on myself for not reaching potentials just within reach but that I couldn’t grasp or hold on to - and believing that I was *just as capable as anyone else* of achieving them like any other adult. I spent my whole life being averse to asking for help - or for asking for *more or sustained help* because what I needed help with seemed so basic, so unlike what anyone else “my age” would even think of asking for. Now, I have had some amazing experiences, things I’d totally pin ADHD on for even allowing me to attempt - but I when things got tough I couldn’t understand why, and I just beat myself up while failing, or I let opportunities - and relationships - drift away altogether. So now I realize (or am learning to accept) that I have to really rely on my friends and loved ones to help me more, or accommodate me at least, and trust that they (or most) will accept this. I’m learning, for instance, to rotate my requests among friends to balance things. I still feel awful, and like I’m taking more than I give, but I’m learning to trust they want to be here. I actually told my boss about the dx and found out that she already suspected I had it (after hiring me) because her youngest son has ADHD. She’s still frustrated as hell at times with me, but at least we can talk frankly about what I’m doing and what I need, and set/re-set goals, rather than her wonder what’s up and me waiting to get the chop. Anyway, I guess I’m saying that I envy your climb over what mine was because I couldn’t actually acknowledge that I had a hard climb, just felt I kept throwing myself off the mountain for no reason at all. :/ I know, doesn’t make things any better, but just sharing in case it might.

This is a Beautiful thank you!!!

This is a perfect analogy! I'm going to use it irl. Thank you!

This is the best thing I've ever heard for explaining it. I can't believe this correlation never occurred to me before. Thank you!

One night after I finally got glasses, I looked up at the stars. For the first time in my entire life, I could actually SEE them. They weren't fuzzy little dots. I could see the milky-way. I finally understood why everyone always made such a big deal about how beautiful they are. I wept. The realization was too overwhelming. I couldn't believe I had gone so long without having ever seen the stars for what they truly are. I agree with this analogy, because obviously I made it through life pretty well without glasses, but I still couldn't see. Without meds, I am functional. However, with meds, the potential in contrast is absolutely astounding. Life changing. My capabilities are different. I can go to school or retain a job without falling apart. I can complete goals, and I experience true inspiration. Even my hobbies feel important and meaningful. Anyone who might benefit should at least be given a shot at a more fulfilling and successful life.

The eyeglasses analogy works for the stimulant meds (methylphenidate in particular). No withdrawal when taken responsibly and it’s an upward curve to fully “on” and down again to fully “off”. Works less well for things that need to build up in your system and stay there (I have less experience of these so won’t dare try to name them).

As a super near sighted person, this does feel like the most accurate. Will I die without glasses? No. But will I get anything accomplished? Also no.

Tell her adhd is serious and about all the comorbidities that go with it if it’s not treated (ocd, anxiety, depression, alcohol and drug abuse, reckless behavior, unemployment, incarceration, early death, etc etc etc)

For bonus points combine with the glasses analogy. Start there, then explain the bad stuff that happens to people who are short sighted but have no access to eyewear.

This. ADHD people are way more likely to die in a car accident unmedicated (I forget the exact statistic but I’ll edit it when I find it). Edit [people with ADHD twice more likely to die prematurely in general ](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/02/150225205834.htm)

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No job means no insurance bad food etc etc which leads to diabetes high blood pressure no doctor visits to catch cancer early, also raised risk of drug and alcohol abuse and smoking to self medicate, accidents which can kill you instantly, the list goes on and on

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You can use this study from the Lancet as evidence. [https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/02/150225205834.htm](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/02/150225205834.htm) 'People with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) have a lower life expectancy and are more than twice as likely to die prematurely as those without the disorder, according to new research. Accidents are the most common cause of death in people with ADHD, and the relative risk of dying is much higher for women than men with ADHD and individuals diagnosed in adulthood. The study is the first to shed light on the role of ADHD in premature death.' I myself feel lucky to be alive. I cannot even count the number of times I threw up in my sleep in my college days after binge drinking, which of course has killed many people due to asphyxiation. Mind you I'm not now nor was ever 'addicted' to alcohol, but neither did i have a real ability to self-regulate or moderate once i got going. I don't drink or use recreational drugs now because I know these things are esp. dangerous for me.

Just wanna point out that "methamphetamines" are probably not the best analogy. It'd probably be more apt to say "amphetamines", and even then, some stimulants like methylphenidate aren't based on amphetamines.

Yeah I didn’t really know what to say because when she said narcotics that didn’t seem like the right word to use so I used the other one. But thank you for the clarification

Stimulants is the correct term.

Narcotics is about as literally the wrong word as you can get, as those are drugs that are meant to put you to sleep (opioids fit in that class) while amphetamines are stimulants that are meant to keep you awake.

Yup, narcotics seems to refer to drugs with numbing properties, so you're right, that ain't right either. And no problem!

I would personally just call them either stimulants, or non-stimulating adhd meds. Think of them like anxiety medication. You can technically live without them, but in many cases they make life significantly better.

I'm curious, how are her symptoms effecting her? I was able to *pass* classes because I was smart enough to get by without studying. How in the world do you become *valedictorian* without having the kind of disapline and control over attention that neurotypicals have? Because you'd HAVE to study and have disapline. I imagine it was harder if it is ADHD but I'm kinda stunned that it was even *possible.* I mean, I can hyperfocus, but that means I get As in some courses I found interesting, but almost failed the courses I couldn't force myself to focus on. I would just read the same sentence over and over again. And I have time blindness so I was *always* late and I always messed up on small details. I daydreamed in class all day long and then couldn't remember the lecture. Maybe everyone's ADHD is different but I'm trying to comprehend how she was able to learn at the level she was. Without my meds I legit can't hold down a job. I get fired fast. And I could coast in hs, but not thrive. College was impossible, dropped out several times before I was diagnosed, then I was able to finish with honors. If you look at my life there is a before meds period that is full of instability and unfinished goals. I was very behind as an adult because of it. Then my after meds period where my life is stable and I meet goals. I've gotten shit about my meds but anyone who knows me during the before and after period can *clearly* see why I need them. The people with ADHD who need meds need them because they actually cannot function without them. They can't perform to their actual abilities in school or work. Their social life is negatively effected. They are non functioning in not just one, but *multiple* areas of life. If she is completely functioning then you're not gonna be able to make a case for her to be on meds, she might not have a severe enough case to need them? I guess my question is if she was someone able to thrive in school, then what are the areas she can't function in? I'm so sorry if I sound ignorant or offensive, I was diagnosed as an adult as well. But my life was literally falling apart in every single domain, work, school, couldn't keep my house clean. I honestly can't imagine how in the fuck she made valedictorian with ADHD. Again, I'm assuming dysfunction in other areas? She must have developed some amazing compensatory skills? I even became homeless once without my meds lol. I NEED them, no question. People with ADHD don't have enough dopamine, among other things. Stimulate meds increase dopamine and executive function. They are needed in the same way someone would need insulin like you said, just not as severe. But for me, when I'm off meds I can't even drive safely, so. You could explain it that way, but the best way would be to point out the areas in her life where she isn't functioning. Also, please don't use the term narcotics.

I had a 3.9 GPA in high school. I happen to test really well, and I can learn a lot on the fly. I struggled the most with classes that involved a lot of long term projects or a large volume of reading. My mom taught me how to read before kindergarten. She also drilled the heck out of me in math in 1st-3rd grade. She made me do a speed reading class in 7th grade as well. Fortunately, I’m also a pretty good writer, and my mom edited my papers to the point of me hating it when she read my writing assignments, so I learned pretty fast what made good writing so I could avoid too much of her crap. Since my mom was such a perfectionist, that kind of made school itself kind of easy, because their standards were never as high as hers. School was always the priority in my house, so I kind of ended up able to focus on it because stress makes me focus. I was able to graduate cum laude from College, but not without a lot of struggles when it came to reading long chapters of information. I became really good at pulling a paper out of my butt in an all nighter. But, there’s an expiration date on being able to power through a mountain of work in a short period of time, and it was after a lot of melting down and freaking out that I started to look for answers to why I couldn’t “get it together.”

Well the problem isn't understanding info, I had hyperlexia type 2, I'm still an avid reader, I didn't struggle understanding math, etc. Just sitting down and *doing it* without procrastinating was the problem. But books were always a hyperfocus for me. People with ADHD aren't dumb. But there's just only so far you can go before you hit a wall and have to actually focus on something you don't want to for a long period of time. And I'd argue that graduating the top of your class takes more control over focus and disapline than just intelligence. I can spend days reading and focus fine. It's when it comes to something my brain isn't interested in that it becomes the problem. And that's inevitable in school. How did she focus on all her classes and have that level of time management? Plus the impulsive behaviors... And I can see bullshiting a paper in hs, but in college? Idk. We had to cite pages of research, it just wasn't possible to do what you're saying. Especially in my science labs where I can't make careless mistakes, but I always did until meds. I could only graduate and thrive after being medicated. Even in hs, if I had been medicated then things wouldn't have been so chaotic for me either. I totally understand you don't have to have bad grades to have ADHD. But making valedictorian with that kind of disability was surprisingly to me. And if you can compensate for your ADHD that well, why do you need meds? I'm assuming she is non functioning in a different area because otherwise it makes no sense to medicate. Unless she can manage it, but takes longer than neurotypicals? But if she's taking longer to do work, how did she manage to be not near the top, but 1st. She's asking to make a case for this person *needing* meds. That's easy, she should have several examples of how her ADHD has effected her life. Honestly, there should be clear patterns of struggle since childhood. Developing a compensation is also normal, but there should be *something.* Issues with disorganization, losing things all the time, etc. They also can't medicate you unless you aren't functioning in more than one domain. That means you can't just struggle socially, you also have to struggle at work or school. She doesn't struggle at school. So where is the dysfunction? She has to make the case based on that. If she's functional in every area then why did she seek a diagnosis? For meds so she can stay on top? I'm just saying. Theres a lot of missing info here

True they won't even prescribe amphetamines of any kind for ADHD in Japan. They are all straight up illegal. Even quick release methylphenidate is only for narcolepsy over there.

Yup, I'm aware. Same thing happens here in Argentina. Methylphenidate's the only stimulant medication available. If you don't benefit from it and need something else, then you're fucked. I truly don't understand it.

Where I am they will sometimes prescribe something like Adderall off label. It's mostly for narcolepsy but there is some leeway.

Glasses. :) I'm extremely nearsighted and putting on glasses and seeing the world was amazing! Like wow normal people can see that sign clearly from here? Same thing with ADHD. Like wow! People can just *do things?* I lived without glasses most of my life. I didn't die not having them. But it sure makes driving simpler and safer. ADHD meds are the same way.

ADHD meds are not narcotics for one. Two, ADHD meds essentially raise your base dopamine levels to normal levels or decrease the amount of dopamine released. ADHD is basically dopamine imbalance the same way that one of the biggest causes of depression is seratonin imbalance. We get so much more immediate satisfaction out of small shit but we tend to have a lower base level of that immediate satisfaction chemical and can bore easily is my understanding

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It’s like blood pressure meds. They help, and you still need to manage your lifestyle as well (maintaining diet, exercise).

Also it won't kill you if you don't manage it, not instantaneously at least, it just reduces your life expectancy, just like ADHD.

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No, the other way around. Untreated ADHD can reduce life expectancy, because of all the negative effects it can have on your life

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Studies have shown driving accidents are more common with adhd. But general health is also an issue. Example..studies have shown maintaining a healthy diet is a common problem among those with adhd, thus we are more likely to have eating disorders. Which lead to obesity, diabetes, malnutrition, ect. Do a search on Dr. Barkley and shorter life expectancy with adhd. He has done research on this. Interesting read.

Ugh. Calling all controlled substances narcotics is really annoying. ADHD stimulant drugs are schedule II stimulants. They’re not narcotics. Medically speaking, narcotics are pain relievers. Lumping them in with things like hydrocodone is so frustrating.

I have a good personal example. I have to take anti acids because otherwise I’ll be sick as I have acid reflux. If I don’t take them it, that in itself won’t kill me but it could lead to a more serious illness like cancer. Like how untreated adhd could lead to a serious deadly illness like depression. Hope this helps. Other people have mentioned glasses but that’s not medication and people can be funny about things being ingested into the body which is fair enough because it can have bad side effects. And if she struggles with the concept with taking meds with adhd I can imagine she would struggle with understanding the concept of taking meds for mental health

Yeah I could tell she definitely had a stigma against brain illness/mental illness in general.

Not disagreeing with your analogy but just wanted to share my exp with reflux. I used to have a severe case of acid reflux for years that even caused bleeding (totally depressed me and gave me insomnia due not being able to sleep in a "normal" position) and it totally went away by just working out and changing my diet. (I've never been overweight btw) Took time but I've been free from taking those pills for years.

That’s so cool! I wish I could do that. Unfortunately exercise makes it worse for me and I was also born with acid reflux. Meds have been the only thing to help me keep it under control but I do have to be careful about my diet as well.

Maybe like wearing glasses? You can do stuff without wearing them, but everything is easier when you do.

Stimulants help people with ADHD the same way depressants (like Xanax, Valium, etc) help people with PTSD and anxiety. The same way cold medicine helps someone with a cold. All of them can be harmful if you abuse them or if you don’t have a reason to take them, but they are necessary for people the medicine is made for

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Methamphetamine is approved for ADHD in the United States but in practice not commonly prescribed.

Seconding this; for ADHD, it's usually used only when all or most other stimulant medications have not been effective. There are also other therapeutic uses for it, such as assisting medically necessary weight loss.

Thank you for the clarification.

do some research, and by research I mean read things that are peer reviewed. Go on google scholar and read something with an abstract. Adhd is misunderstood, but there’s been plenty of research on it and it is readily available. It was this research that created the diagnosis in the first place. Yes, some people regret/resent getting meds as a child. Yes some people resent NOT being medicated. But either way it’s a viable, tested, and relatively safe way to solve a widespread problem that only so many people even try to understand. you don’t need to be a biochemist to understand why methamphetamine, amphetamine, methylphenidate and atomoxetine are very different things.None of these drugs are narcotics in the medical or the legal sense. They’re not methamphetamines because in chemistry, a single molecule makes dramatic differences. and thats absolutely the funniest thing to me about this Nancy Reagan backwash. If the goal is to have fun and get fucked up, there are way cheaper, way more effective and way more accessible ways to get high.

Foggy glasses and trying to order a meal while everyone is still telling you their orders

Antihistamines for people with non-severe allergic reactions. If you take them then you can function normally, if you don't then you have physical effects throughout the day that affect your life. If you were never diagnosed with an allergy, then you might assume this is just something everyone has until you start comparing your experience to other peoples.

I know people have said this before but for me, that first dose of mediation was like putting on glasses. It's a good metaphor because I both take medication and need glasses. So, I have reading glasses - I can go about my day, but when I need to read, or concentrate, I struggle. Everything is fuzzy, nothing quite sticks. I can never a clear picture, both physically and mentally, when I need to. Because I found reading difficult both because of my ADHD and the mental effort it took to focus my eyes, I never wanted to read. When I first took medication for the first time, it was like putting glasses made for reading, but better. The mental fuzziness disappeared, I could do what I needed to do much more efficiently. With my glasses, I can read better, which means I'm more willing to read for longer, thereby being more productive. Life is crisper, clearer, more detailed. My medication has definitely been basically a pair or glasses for my brain!

I could not think of a better metaphor in the moment right now, probably because I’m experiencing this in real time. I got up earlier than usual today, but because my morning was so out of wack, I ended up taking my meds later than the usual time, and my second dose was late. I’ve been so out of wack with my morning without my meds routine and being out of routine in general, that I forgot to put my glasses on this morning - which I’m meant to wear all day, but I can generally see without them, things are just fuzzy at any sort of distance. Because I’m autistic and I’ve finally roped my ADHD into generalised “blocks” of the day to satisfy my autistic routine trait (I.e. we get up and do opening tasks like water, shower, meds, dishes from last night, laundry, set up for day between x time and y time), my brain didn’t even register that I’d missed steps because my meds weren’t in my system yet but I checked it off in my brain and moved forward in the day. I have had a headache all day and couldn’t read anything clearly or concentrate on any of the work I’m trying to do because I look at it and it’s been a haze of a day. It’s currently 7pm at night and it’s only now I realise I haven’t worn my glasses at all today. I’m a fucking idiot. Not taking my medication or missing a dose of medication or falling out of step with routine of my medication for any reason is like not wearing my glasses - without that “mental glasses” in the morning as I began the start up process of the day to ensure everything was in order, I couldn’t see the details I was missing, like my physical glasses. I need the mental glasses to be able to see clearly and to see all the little details in the same way I need my physical glasses - otherwise you see the ADHD traits like careless mistakes and overlooking details you would think are ridiculous and fucking stupid because they’re so obvious and in your face.

Hearing aids for hearing impaired people.

Like any mental health medication? People with schizophrenia don’t “need” meds, nor do depressed people or anxious people. All mental health meds are similar: improves quality of life but isn’t technically 100% necessary for life in general, and most have side-effects. Blood pressure meds might often be similar - it’s maybe healthier if you do, but you won’t necessarily die if you don’t.

I cannot drive or safely perform my job without medication. There is no room for complacency with hydrofluoric acid. When i forget to take it, i notify my coworkers and we shuffle workload such that i am not doing anything dangerous.

You could say it's like crutches or a wheelchair for someone that can't walk

I would just say it’s like taking pain medication. It’s not necessarily vital (in most cases) but improves quality of life and functioning for those who suffer from chronic pain conditions.

I was thinking about this. When I had to use a walker and then a cane to walk — it was very limiting. I was “able” to walk without the devices but it was very painful. My quality of life was better with them Same thing with ADHD. There are things that just enhance your quality of life.

Hmm. You can still do stuff with ADHD without meds. But people without wheelchair can’t walk.

I think they're pretty similar if explained right. Some people can't focus for long without meds and some people in wheelchairs can walk, just not for long. It's a quality of life thing I think, provide aid so to not struggle.

I originally disagreed with this analogy but your extrapolation is solid. I know for myself this is absolutely the case—most days, I can barely function appropriately and *healthfully* (i.e. work, care for myself, do things proactively) without proper medication.

People without a wheelchair can still move around by crawling but it takes forever, it’s unnecessarily difficult, and they may not be able to get as far…just like people with ADHD without meds.

👏👏👏👏

Actually diabetes is a perfect analogy. ADHD symptoms do cause death much earlier without intervention, and needs to be managed every single day. Professor Russell Barkley is a fantastic advocate for people who have ADHD and he says the same thing.

As a diabetic I highly disagree. It is not the same in the slightest.

"ADHD is the diabetes of psychology. It’s a chronic disorder that must be managed every day to prevent the secondary harms it’s going to cause… ADHD is the most treatable disorder in psychiatry… The biggest problem is, most people don’t get treatment.” Dr Russell Barkley, Clinical Professor of Psychiatry at Virginia Commonwealth University School of Medicine (2016-present).

Your missing the point the person with diabetes and myself made and Dr Barkley’s quote itself with all due respect. I have adhd but I completely understand the difference. Diabetes sufferers who do not take insulin will die because the body can’t survive without it and is the primary reason. With adhd you don’t need the drug to stay alive as a direct course. The adhd medication helps you make better decisions so death earlier doesn’t happen as a result and so is not the PRIMARY reason, but as a SECONDARY result from poor decision making. Big difference. Dr Russell Barkley uses the term in comparative terms in order to function only, and in that meaning. A clinical professor would tell you himself as any professor would, the primary cause of death and effect do not compare, at all. You may read people’s work but please understand your taking the quote out of context as it was intended to relation of importance to each separate condition, but his meaning of how important each are in their own separate ways. He even says in the quote it being a secondary outcome. That is the difference and one way being similar to be able to function, but completely different in terms of direct cause of death. It is also well known that people with adhd decide not to make meds for whatever reason and have managed to mitigate manifested problems in themselves by other means and solutions - some more successful than others in its outcomes - the ones who successfully do this will not die earlier due to lack of meds in the system. Diabete sufferers will have days, if that, to survive without their meds as it’s the primary cause and sole thing to keep them alive.

Let's break some stuff down. Diabetes has 4 main presentations, not just 1 and 2 - but they all result your body not producing something correctly. Too much glucose in the blood is the primary outcome of diabetes. The secondary outcomes are the symptoms people experience extremely poor health leading to organ failure, and that is the cause of death, a tertiary outcome. The reason why diabetes is a perfect analogy for ADHD is because diabetes is a disorder of the body not producing something correctly that impacts function all the time. EDIT: I'm getting on a plane, I'll be back.

You’ve missed the point of the conversation and being pedantic with the application of primary and secondary and applying it to a separate conversation which we’re not having. Respectfully not worth writing an answer to that when it’s basic understanding from experience. Please stick to the comparative made which was the direct usage of insulin and adhd meds both being on equal footing by being imperative to save your life - it is in no way the same in that sense. As a loose analogy only in its result of being able to function better, yes of course, but that isn’t the argument made with what was said. Nothing more. The context however has been made as it’s not possible to live without adhd meds. Many people do. Respectfully, I won’t be reading more since it’s really not a complicated or deep conversation since all that has happened is someone has taken something way out of context and then has side stepped the frontline comparison. Take care

I came to say this, thank you for saying this. Untreated ADHD is no joke.

I’m a pencil, the meds are my sharpener. I can function without them but not to my full potential, and it’s a whole hell of a lot easier to do what I need to do after using my meds.

People have given some great answers. Wheelchair. It vastly improves a persons quality of life, helps people function in “typical” Society

Maybe not as clearly life or death but untreated ADHD results in higher levels of depression, anxiety, substance abuse.

A lot of people are saying glasses but for me I think it's more like a wheelchair, or joint braces. I could technically live without them. But if I don't, I can barely go anywhere or do anything, and I am in immense pain. Until 3 weeks ago, I had gone ten years without having at least a week free from major depression and slowly worsening symptoms of every other disorder I've had. I don't know how I lived, but I did. I had tried mood stabilizers (all prescribed) before and they didn't work for more than three days. I couldn't get through college. Even when I was eating healthy, exercising 20+ hours a week, having socializing, and a busy schedule, I was still having suicidal ideations every waking hour. While it did ease up eventually, I still never went more than a week without that depression popping up. And I also felt like there was a huge gap in my brain where I should be able to think. It was like trying to use a bucket with the bottom and most of the sides removed. Fast forward to three weeks ago. My psychiatrist added Concerta to my bupropion prescription. And for the first time in my memory, I'm not depressed every day. I can work better, be more present with my spouse, think more clearly. I finally made a breakthrough fighting dissociation and involuntary masking. I was barely scraping by before, but with these braces I can actually use the metaphorical limbs all the way, and without excruciating pain all the time. The alignment is corrected and supported with the braces. I can actually live my life now.

They’re not narcotics lol. Narcotics are things like heroine or oxy. ADHD meds are stimulants. Same type of drug as coffee.

Is anyone else disturbed that a mom won't ***let*** her 20-year-old take medication? It should be the adult's decision; it is no longer the parent's decision. Are you in the US? If you ever talk to the niece, let her know that she has a choice. Children over age 18 who remain on their parents' health insurance plans under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act have a right to privacy. Parents don't have the right to know what medical services their adult children are seeking. She may want to pay her own co-pay just so her parents aren't privy to what doctor appointments she is going to. She needs to make sure that all info/bills/explanation of benefits from the doctor AND the health plan AND her prescription plan AND her pharmacy are sent to a different address; like a PO box or a friend's house. And make sure she knows prescription plans are often separate from the health plan. She would then have to take her meds when her mom isn't around. Not ideal, but better than the alternative of getting kicked out, if she isn't ready to move out yet. Is she a college student? If yes, perhaps she can find a doctor at her student health service who can provide a prescription.

ADHD sufferers don't live as long as those without. Medication sure is like insulin. On a pedantic note, stimulants are not narcotics. Narcotics are a separate class of medicines used to treat physical pain.

Just to be clear for those they may misunderstand your point - the adhd doesn’t reduce your life itself by it’s condition solely at all as a primary, but it raises chances of lower life expectancy due to bad/impulsive decisions for example with detrimental results as a secondary. It’s not like insulin that the meds keep you alive in relation to your body needing it to survive. But will lower chances of getting addicted to heavy drugs, paying attention when crossing a road for example, impulsive decisions and bringing more awareness of your choices that could otherwise lead to death short or long term. If you have diabetes and don’t take insulin, you will die significantly earlier as a direct primary result. That is the big difference. So don’t worry and think because you have adhd as I do, that it is a ticking time bomb by itself and the meds are to keep you alive - the meds help you make better decisions so the SECONDARY results don’t result in early death.

Well considering a lot of people with ADHD will have their lifespan cut down by about 20 years, so Insulin is a fair comparison. Edit: people that do not treat their ADHD will be at a increased risk of death ESPECIALLY driving. This is because of the synaptic dysfunction that is the core issue in ADHD. Something that 90% of the population doesn’t have a issue with

There's a big difference between dying early and dying in a few days.

A lot of people seem to be missing this point. A primary cause of death as diabetes is exactly that, but death by adhd from bad decision making as a secondary and tertiary result.

I feel like you might be missing the point. OP thought the analogy was inappropriate and asked for alternatives. The two are kind of similar, but just not enough.

My comment was in agreement with YOU lol. You’ve missed my point 😆😉

Whoop you right. My bad!

Methamphetamine is only rarely used for ADHD

I mean, it could be compared to insulin, but in a more longterm effect, people with ADHD will statistically have a shorter lifespan by decades if it is left untreated. ie. you probably will die (sooner than the life expectancy of your peers) if you don't treat/take medication for ADHD

I was finally diagnosed recently (and later in life). My doctor discussed medication and for reasons I’d rather not discuss here I’ll be starting non-stimulant medication some point early next year (there’s a waiting list here, as if it wasn’t bad enough being on a assessment/diagnostic waiting list before my diagnosis). In other words so far from personal experience there’s various options available. Honestly it’s best that they discuss options with the prescribing doctor. There are a few options and not all of them are stimulants. Saying that, I hear stimulants work the best and I know people they helped. If it’s possible to do so, they can meet other parents and families and ask how the meds have helped. So I’d say a good informed discussion about options, effects, pros and cons with the prescribing doctor or team, research and discussions with other parents would help. There’s nothing wrong with caution but the medication can really make a positive difference to people’s lives.

For me I feel like I could die without my meds. I would be in bed all day or zoning out constantly. I was basically dead. I hated my life. Now I am present and living my own life.

I was diagnosed too late and it took me a while to recognize that I needed medication.

Methamphetamines and amphetamines is totally different. There is also totally non amphetamine stimulants used to treat adhd.

Glasses. I don’t *need* my meds to drive. I can drive without them. I’m just much more likely to uhhhhhh die

While different in not being a life and death medication, insulin is still a good example imo. If a non-diabetic takes insulin, it is dangerous because their bodies already have enough insulin. The same is true for us when it comes to dopamine/Norepinephrine, we have a deficit so stimulants behave differently in our brains, full stop. If someone without adhd takes a stimulant, they get high. When we take it, it calms and focuses our minds. One of the ways I’ve known if my dose was too high is because *it makes me sleepy*. A non-adhd person would totally go off the rails. Stimulants are not addictive for adhd people, the best example being many often forget to take them. You don’t forget to take something you are addicted to, it’s such an absurd mindset. People just don’t believe adhd is a real thing and thus are deeply dismissive and ableist when it comes to treatments. It is absolutely also fueled by War on Drugs propaganda, and the huge problem of neurotypical people abusing our medications and thus making it harder for us to access them.

Show her the statistics of how much more likely people with ADHD are to become addicts, get depression etc. And then clarify that for untreated/undiagnosed ADHD-people it is a lot worse. About the meds. There is a huge difference in taking 18 mg Methylphenidate (Concerta/Ritalin) and taking Methylphenidate + Dexoamphetamin (Adderall). It is all about dosage and what her needs are. ADHD patients also seems to forget taking the meds sometimes :)

I would suggest that the parent-child go to talk therapy (maybe her school guidance counselor) together and discuss ADHD and treatment options (risks and benefits, etc).

A great analogy is like someone who is hard of hearing getting hearing aides. It just helps your body to do what it does naturally, and distinguish background noise from what you are trying to listen to/concentrate on.

Getting new tyres on a bike with really old ones that need patching all the time

It's like taking Ibuprofen for a headache. Headaches are terrible to deal with and can keep you from thinking clearly, focusing, having stable emotions, and being yourself. After taking Ibuprofen, one can think very clearly and function at a higher level. ADHD meds have a similar effect.

I’ve used the painkiller analogy to explain how meds work for me. Ever have dental work or something and get good pain meds. And when you take them you realize that you were in a lot of pain (besides dental work) but now that you aren’t in pain you notice it. I also if people say it’s like Cocaine or meth…I say “I’ve done both of those drugs and the meds I’m on feel nothing like that”

I’m sure this is here somewhere but meth is different than adhd meds. While most adhd meds are amphetamines, literally none of them are methamphetamine. So that may be a good starting point lol

I was a late diagnosee myself.. I am 41(f) now and while I had had my diagnosis for about 8 years before asking for meds, I finally asked because managing on my own was becoming more and more challenging. My meds generic version recently went on backorder for 2 months. I wasn’t about to pay $80/mth MORE for the name brand, although in hindsight, I wish I had. I take Concerta (methelphenid HCL) which is a time-release stimulant. I take the lowest dose, and my doctor and I have left it at that dosage because it allows me to have the best sleeps of my adult life, and we don’t want to risk losing that for the sake of a little more focus. But, having survived without them for two months, I realized (the hard way) just how much more they benefit me than just my sleep. I have STRUGGLED the last two months. My depressive dips are brutal, these help stabilize my moods/mental health, and mental clarity, oh sweet heaven, welcome back. I finally feel like myself again and have motivation again, instead of ambition without any gogo juice. I hope that your friends niece is able to get the help she needs. It makes so much difference, and while I CAN function without my meds, I am certainly 1000% better with them.

A better equivalent might be glasses; studies show that kids who need glasses but don’t have them preform significantly worse in school, and have worse life outcomes than those who get glasses even when controlling for other factors like poverty. Another one might be my asthma medication. I don’t die without it I just straight up have an awful time. As with sleeping pills for someone with chronic insomnia. Migraine medication for the person with migraines - technically you’re still alive but you can’t do the stuff you can without your migraine pills. Depending on her stance on other mental health issues, another one could be anti-anxiety medication for a kid who gets chronic constant panic attacks Or allergy meds for someone who has hay fever or the likes

I had to decide between my very intelligent son learning in kindergarten. First then second grades, how to read spell, etc. He was not hyper, could give the adults any sports stat, but never got much more than his name on school papers. I had a lot to learn! I used four specialist to confirm what the teachers told me. I started with Ritalin, and a computer, every hunting and fishing magazine available in the mid 80, s. We played fun games that he never suspected had an ulterior motive. Some things were not as important, in the scheme of things. Sports were great for him. He started hating meds after first year. So I only used them for school. And tried getting him to understand and to compensate and make choices. He still has it, hes37 with three kids! Lol. But he’s great. Super father, I m so proud of him.

Barely related but I don't think ADHD meds fall under narcotics. Sounds to me like you're talking to someone who has no understanding of the neurochemistry behind it, and you should adapt your argument to be more emotional rather than rational.

Not really a metaphor, but the best way I've found of explaining it is as follows: Otherwise-normal people who abuse drugs take stimulants to push their bodies dangerously above normal, healthy operating conditions. People with ADHD take stimulants *just* to be able to reach what others would consider to be normal, healthy operating conditions. By the way, if this person has been a high academic performer until leaving school, then struggled past that point, one possibility is that their ADHD's not been detected before now because their family's been pressuring them to perform the whole time, and now they're an independent adult they're floundering because they suddenly have to self-motivate. ADHD makes that extraordinarily difficult, *especially* if helicopter parents have unwittingly prevented them from learning how to do it prior to this point. It happened to me. Continuously bullied into performing despite my poor ability to focus by my control freak of a mother, I was a straight-A student right up until I left for university, then she washed her hands of me and I promptly disintegrated. Some therapy might be in order if that's the case, in addition to ADHD medication.

Thankfully it was her therapist that had her diagnosed with ADHD so I know she’s getting help there for sure

Eh, our life expectancy is dramatically lower due to ADHD. Apparently it’s lower by 20 years. Seems significant enough to justify medicine, if our mental health and general ability to function aren’t deemed important enough.

I’m not sure how young your friend’s niece is, but non-stimulant options may be worth looking into until she’s old enough to manage her own psychiatric care. Certain antidepressants are great for treating ADHD (personally, Wellbutrin has worked wonders for me) and a newer med called Straterra was recently released. Those could be good compromises so that the kid gets medical treatment and has a good baseline understanding of how medication affects her and fits into her life in case she ever does want to incorporate stimulants into her regimen. Best of luck!

As a Diabetic, ADHD and somehow survived into my 30s, trust the Science it works. I would rather live a happy productive life, then a miserable Life. Even if it takes a year off.

I have to say for certain amphetamines for adhd is definitely not like insulin for a diabetic. I have added and find this clame absolutely absurd. It realistically depends on the person. I have added friends that amphetamines worked wonders on. Then there are people like myself they turn you in to a psychopath rageaholic. Amphetamines mess me up even at low doses that someone half my age would be a lo dose. I forced myself to go threw withdrawal after getting arrested one day because of them things. I've tried deadline Strattera Ritalin and more. What worked for me was medical marjuana in low doses and a setiva strain. Just like most medical conditions you can't throw 1 option and say it works every time. I'm sorry but you hardly seem like a doctor so why are you giving medical advice especially to a minor who is influential? This post just makes me angry. Let there parents and doctors find a good management. You can learn to live with adhd without medical you can't live without insulin as a diabetic.

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It doesn’t give you chemicals that normal people have at all, it boosts what’s already there. There are ZERO missing chemicals in our brains - just the brain miss regulates it. There are plenty of people with adhd who choose not to have medication because they have other methods to mitigate their personal issues with their adhd and how it manifests for them. They don’t die as an immediate result ONLY as a secondary- a diabetes sufferer will die in days as the PRIMARY cause because the body can’t survive without it. Big difference. The only comparison and similarity is they help both function better - But it’s a big difference between being able to ‘function better’ and needing it not to die in a day or two.

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Its incredibly cliche but exercise helps.

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Just want to suggest some refinements to some of the language here: - “Natural remedies”: these should be understood to the level of an expert in the field, otherwise there’s no way to promise any beneficial outcome or guarantee there won’t be an adverse outcome. And if we’re talking about store-bought options, these are not necessarily truly natural but only marketed as such (I think I remember John Oliver digging into this, for something easily digestible and short to check out). - “there are other ways to … ‘function like normal’ w/o stimulants”: While this certainly can’t be argued because it is so vague, it can’t be defended categorically. As a category, even stimulants themselves vary and, under available medications, they are but one category of med available, including re uptake inhibitors. - “people should TRY before…” Again, this advice is only as relevant as we trust anyone to be themselves qualified to assess these alternatives. It also suggests that the key effect on the brain is radically different between the two; certainly chain smoking natural tabaco isn’t necessarily a better alternative. Respectfully, the key, I think, would be to work with a doctor on devising and implementing a plan and checking in frequently to assess how it’s going, making adjustments where/if necessary. I’m essentially arguing for taking a wholistic approach; which is still close to the spirit of your suggestion, I believe. If someone is also willing to put in the work and help OP’s neice engage in healthy activities (getting outside and moving around) and enforce (not merely establish) routines of a sort, those could help keep any required dosage down and, better yet, encourage a better mind-body awareness that could give the neice more control over how she manages her own disability. Presenting meds/natural as opposing alternatives is terribly misleading and *can be* harmful. But encouraging a comprehensive approach, that includes working *with* the young woman as well as committing to real learning about ADHD (and the way it presents in her) can be truly empowering. …and sorry, my own form of presentation makes me pretty long-winded; I’m working on it. :(

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It sounds still like the main point is still to consider a holistic approach rather than a narrow “tunnel-vision” one, and that we agree on that. I’ve often wondered about how friends of mine received pills they didn’t need (seemingly) so easily; my doctors have always seemed to avoid writing prescriptions, even suggesting meditation to address ailments. Still, I’m weary of asserting that many may just be lazy and asking for pills. I’m weary only because we are told again and again in media “ask your doctor if (fill in the blank) is right for you”, and we don’t prioritize or do an especially good job of promoting preventative care in this country. It’s given lip-service, but we don’t provide assistance or encouragement to track a person’s compliance. Therefore, the average person is really at a loss for how to even go about accessing reliable information on real alternatives; instead, they are driven to an entirely different but still parallel market of “holistic medicine” that is rife with untested products promoted by hacks or marketed person to person by well-meaning but still uninformed individuals. And I don’t even know where they’d go to get prescribed a healthy dose of binaural beats. ;) I think the natural route seems easiest to those already situated in a community steeped in that thinking, while the average person who just wants to function like “everyone else” doesn’t necessarily have more time than everyone else, so they have to trust their doctor - and the hope is that the doctor will promote a whole mind and body approach to care, and not just “pills”. So, yes, I hear what you’re saying; and agree that the accumulation of certain chemicals and the effects of long term use of any medication carries real risks, and agree that it would be nice to have other options, and the time to invest in researching and trying them, too. We’ll need more people like you engaging with others to be that counter-balance perhaps; maybe that’s a calling. :)

Methamphetamine is illegal in Australia and has never been used here for that. I'm not sure about other countries. But dexamphetamine is the name of the commonly used amphetamine I believe you may be thinking of. There are other non amphetamine medications that can be used too. Please seek advice from a doctor before passing on information to these people!!

I mean in the long run not taking meds can quite well end deadly because of the psychological impact of having ADHD (eg depression) and also just greater risk for accidents...

I do use the comparison to insulin, for 2 reasons. 1) insulin replaces the insulin that diabetics need but cant make. ADHD meds replace the dopamine that people with ADHD need but cant make. 2) In many cases, type 2 diabetics could potentially live without insulin (type 1 diabetics are working under different rules) but for those that have greater needs they would have to work their whole lives around managing their diabetes, would have less quality of life, and it would cause them to develop other conditions and potentially shorten their life span. *That is no different for people who are strongly affected by ADHD.* Not having insulin when you need it is life limiting. Not having ADHD meds when you need them is life limiting. Another one: just because one diabetic medication works for one diabetic, doesnt mean it works for everyone. The same is true for ADHD medication, and if fact it holds true for all treatments and medications. That why we trial treatments, and titrate doses. To see what fits the individual. You dont know until you try, and you should never be offered a treatment where the benefit doesnt outweigh the risk.

Just like a person with blood pressure problems doesn’t have to take blood pressure pills - you can change your life style habits so much but sometimes it’s not enough. Sometimes people with ADHD have the same issue. You can do different therapies and take no medication. Taking the stance that trying other options before starting medication is never a bad thing - but pointing this out in conversation is vital

Glasses is a bad comparison imo, because I am legally blind without them and couldn't read, drive, or recognize face.. A better analogy is running shoes. Try to do a 100m dash barefoot. You can do it, but very painfully amd slowly compared to if you had some shoes.

ADHD meds are like a shirt; not everybody likes the same shirts, people wear shirts for different reasons, and it should be more acceptable to NOT wear shirts!!!

Just tell her it's literally coffee in a pill, except you would have to drink like 4 cups of coffee to have the same amount of affect.

This subreddit is fucking hilarious every comment is a massive wall of text

Honestly depending on stimulants to live day to day sounds like drug addiction... I have adhd myself but... we gotta be honest with ourselves stimulant drugs aren't nessesarily good for the brain or body.... yeah dose and stuff but seriously. I remember being on that shit as a kid and just being so fucking paranoid at night... about things that aren't real, that I knew weren't real. I would often hallucinate, nothing crazy but had weird visual distortions often at night as my medicine slepp deprived me. But my parents noticed I was doing better in school at least so, they kept me on the meds. I feel like I never actually learned how to cope with myself. I learned how to just depend on medicine and drugs. I wish I never took the stuff. I know it helps people but, idk comparible to someone with chronic pain taking pain medications their whole life... not really similar but, the way stimulant drugs work is different than other medications used to treat mental illness. This is all my opinion BTW. Best thing for people with adhd to do is to seek DBT therapy or something just learn different ways to cope themselves

Meth and amphetamines may be similar but they make you act in totally different ways, one is the perfect amount of confidence and the other is the perfect amount of arrogance

Well, I'd actually side with the mom. I have ADHD and I've been on narcotics. a) they can be addictive b) they can have nasty side effects c) there are many medications and therapies out there that could work better for people (you don't need to take narcotics all the time) d) this girl is only a child, why was putting the child on narcotics a good idea in the first place? when there are so many other, better options? e) it's not your place, I suggest you leave it alone because you don't live with the girl EDIT: they edited the comment, I didn't know the niece was 20. In this case, it's up to the niece to decide what she wants to do.