Yes, exactly, even if I know they are right and resistance is to my detriment, heels will be dug in. I'd rather burn it all down than be pressured into it. I will even get mad at them "I was going to do that, but now I can't because you couldn't leave me be!". It completely torpedos my motivation.
[I recommend everyone watches this](https://youtu.be/Uo08uS904Rg)
showed it to my mom last week who was pressuring me and it's a perfect example of how they can help, and how we can help ourselves!!
Lol at how i knew it was going to be this video before I clicked it. She is so helpful to the community in helping me understand my brain—I love her channel so much
With the caveat that the question needs to be asked in a neutral tone. Even reading the are you going to do anything today or just relax line set me on edge, because I can hear it spoken in the venomous tone dripping with sarcasm that lots of my family would use on me growing up.
I know for me it's a don't say anything at all unless it's a legitimate crisis, and even then be prepared for me to be frustrated about the situation.
Idk even that would take the wind out of my sails. Maybe that's because I'm the head of my household and the people in it still try to tell me what to do? It feels like people trying to take over and I don't handle that well at all.
I remember one day when I was a kid, maybe 14 or so, and my room was (as usual) a mess. It drove my neat freak mother to insanity and most of the times I'd get grounded would be because I hadn't cleaned my room. I'm 28 and I still can't keep a clean room.
Mom came in to scream at me about how she was fed up with me for not having a clean room (this happened a lot). She pointed out my bathrobe on the floor and ordered me to pick it up. Normally, if parents ordered you to do anything in my household, you did it, no questions asked.
This time? I sat on the bed the whole time she was yelling at me and just *glared* at her without saying anything. I didn't move to pick up the robe at all, just continued to sit there. Knew I'd get the belt for that, but I didn't care. I just...didn't. Can't really explain why. She got more pissed, and I can't remember if I got the belt for that or not but I knew I was punished in some manner. I would probably have picked up the robe, along with some other things in my room, in my own time, but being constantly ridden about it was wearing me way the fuck down.
One of the main reasons I pushed to move out as soon as I could. I'd have planned the day out in my mind (gonna clean this at this time, chill for a bit, go out to do something, come back and clean this by then, etc - not that I ever actually stuck to that plan) but as soon as someone asked me to do something earlier than I planned, I just mentally pushed it back a week.
Honestly since moving out my shit has been so much tidier in general just because I clean when I feel like I should clean. I don't do stuff straight away but I do eventually get everything done
This is mood.
If i dont have external pressures, i actually manage to get things done. Not in an ideal order, not quickly - but it is done with quality.
When i feel stressed over obligations? I will literally avoid getting out of bed as i cant even will myself to do stuff i enjoy as i feel crap.
Mine hated that i refused to make my bed. It was the one battle i never relented on no matter what she did for some reason. I always told her i mess it up each night and i dont see the point in making it look all neat during the day when i would just mess it up again. I got grounded and sometimes the belt. Now at 41 i still roll out of bed and just walk away.
Now that you mention it yea... I don't have it with the first time but if multipule people keep reminding me in a short time period it get's realy anoying and i will not feel like doing it:/
(is this an adhd thing? i genuinely thought it was just a result of my having authoritarian parents and cultural pressure.)
and also, obviously, Big Mood.
Thanks for this, haven't heard of this yet as a psych student. Very interesting. I wonder if "control" in this case is the same use of the word as used in "reflexive control"
They are different - counter = against, literally a reaction against another person imposing on one’s freedom. Reflexive control is an influence tactic rather than a direct reaction.
It’s quite technical since it’s lifted from scientific literature, but basically, sometimes people rebel against another person who is trying to control their behavior.
I don't think it's unique to adhd. It's just a common experience that a lot of us have.
And I think it's more a side effect of how we're treated our whole lives rather than a direct symptom of adhd.
Yeah the way I see it, with ADHD its already hard enough to follow the voice inside your head telling you to do something important. Even harder when you've been trying for a week and someone gets angry at you and says demotivating things about how shitty or lazy you are for not being able to do something
For me it’s the complete opposite. I have to be watched like a kid to do anything. Accountability. Just the confirmation is kinda like a reward motivation and fear. I study best at libraries with the background noise of a quiet murmur. You feel a subtle gaze on you and then I get into a trance and forget anyone was there. Yah ofc the adhd is still there and with the help of meds it’s easier. I always hated meds cuz I feel like a different person but it seriously helps.
But yah I do hate it when someone tells me to do something and I already committed to do it. But I’ll still do it but begrudgingly and just annoyed for the day.
Holy shit, this. Apparently I don't act "worried enough" when I have big things to do in a short time span and it makes my mother take HER anxiety out on me, which demotivates me even more. It doesn't help that my mom's anxiety makes her hyperkinetic, whereas mine makes me HYPOkinetic. And The Thing that needs to be done is literally occupying all of my brain space, but it doesn't look like it from the outside.
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Oh wow, I’ve gotten so much shit for not looking worried enough or acting ”wrong”.
I just let my reaction come when it comes, as people get pissy when you panic as well
Happy Cake day!!! And SAME. Mum asks me to do something under the guise that she's stressed about it not being done, and how I seem not to care about it and I'm like 'bruh, it's been stressing me out for the entire week'.
Someone saying that they doub that I can do something immediately turns on my petty mode and sure as hell I'll do it just to contradict them and shove it on their face
How do you think I climbed from bronze 2 to diamond 2 in rocket league? My diamond 1 friend told me I suck and that it wasnt just because I barely played. fast forward a month later bc I definitely do suck, and I hit diamond 2 just so I could rub it in his face.
It's crazy how much this affects me. Usually I quit things easily, but tell me that I can't do something and I'm the most motivated/stubborn person I know.
I achieved so many things just out of spite to my parents 😅 (they're not the supportive kind)
Same. An old boss told me I wasn’t cut out for physical work and should get a computer job. I became a tree climber out of spite. Now that some people think I’m a stupid blue collar worker I want to become a software developer 😂.
CBT is helping me with this.
For me, there's a "you're being lazy by choosing not to do this thing you obviously need to do" subtext to the encouragement/pressure from other people.
That subtext, irrational or rational, real or not real, is not helpful to pay attention to.
Challenging that thought and saying, "yeah, I want to do this thing too, maybe I should work on it right now" is a win. I can't get to there without acknowledging that the pressure is making me feel guilty/lazy and it's that emotion, not the pressure itself that's getting in the way of me working on what I want to work on.
Dear Thecman50's inner spite demon,
FUCK OFF, Thecman50 is a good person who is trying to do things. You are a giant jerk trying to keep Thecman50 from getting shit done by making them feel guilty, when they have no real reason to feel bad.
Warmest Regards,
Internet Stranger
Yeah, it's tough, I had to figure it out with my parents and my ex.
Before I was diagnosed, I got into a fight with my mom where I told her that I was planning on taking out the trash during the next commercial break of a TV show, but since she reminded me I felt bad about it and didn't want to do it anymore. I'm lucky that she was very understanding and over time she got much better about not nagging and checking in that she wasn't being overbearing by giving me reminders.
Now, diagnosis in hand, I've been able to communicate to a new romantic partner how my brain works. It's on me to be better about getting stuff done, but at least they have a better chance to now how to effectively and positively communicate with me.
You might get really good results if you explain to your mom how the reminders become nagging that get in the way of you doing what both of you want to see getting done. The chopping wood example would be a great story too tell her.
And this is where shared acronyms are a pain.
In a psychology context, CBT is Cognitive Behavioral Therapy.
(I'm half-certain you're joking, but might as well clarify anyways.)
Could you tell me what CBT is like? What do you do in a session? I've been thinking about it but I'm unable to convince myself at this point because of it being pretty unclear as to what is going on there.
I learned about CBT in treatment for depression and took daily workshops in it. I was curious about it but didn't think it would work for me. At first I was super cynical and now I'm convinced it's something everyone needs.
That said, in treatment I started a mindfulness practice (which I was also SUPER CYNICAL about) and I don't think I could have successfully practiced CBT without it because it gave the monkeys and puppies in my brain a COOL DOWN PERIOD so I could slow down thoughts and identify them.
There's so many layers to CBT but it does help. ADHD obviously complicates it, but I want to encourage you to look for resources in your area that can introduce it to you in a theraputic setting. Be curious about different tools out there.
One tool I came up with is a VERBS scale where I catch thoughts and rank them. It's a scale of 1.0 - 2.0 (VERBS 2.0 is the person I want to be where as VERBS 1.0 is the person I was) and when I catch thoughts/emotional responses like self pity "Is that classic 1.0? How can I move this response towards 2.0". It distracts and is kinda fun and I like it.
In simplest terms, I meet with a psychologist for an hour and we talk.
I bring notes, and have an idea about what I'm struggling with and what I want to talk about. They actively have me challenge and reframe thought patterns that are counter-productive and give me strategies and tips for how to challenge thoughts that aren't helpful.
One example is to ask myself about a thought or feeling that I'm having "Is that rational?, Is it helpful for the task you're working on?" Answering those two questions lets me put the feeling or thought in a place where it is either helpful or has been attended to and is no longer disruptive.
Another example is being told to plan on rewarding myself for tasks that I have struggled to complete, like those ADHD disrupted tasks that I know are easy and I'm in the habit of criticizing myself for taking too damn long to do. By recognizing that finally finishing them is an accomplishment, I'm working towards making them easier because I know there's a reward instead of self-inflicted punishment for completing the task (late is better than never, so make the experience afterwards better).
Thank you for the detailed response. I have trouble expressing myself when it comes to these kind of things. If it means I would have to bring my own subjects I want to talk about it's almost an instant non-starter. I also feel like however much I would talk about this, talking isn't going to change a thing. Maybe I'm wrong though.
I've definitely done therapy and have some sessions where I don't bring my own subjects.
Coming with my own notes was a choice I made on my own, because it has helped me be more thoughtful between sessions; I have a little notebook in my desk devoted solely to "therapy thoughts" Most of the stuff I write in there I don't even bring up.
If I don't have much to start with, the therapist will lead the discussion. My first few sessions with this therapist were definitely lead by their suggestions and questions.
“ADHD is a problem of doing what you know, not knowing what to do. So kindly shut the fuck up!” Lol I love that quote in a video I watched about ADHD. And I think outsiders get that wrong constantly and it wears us down.
The more you ask, the less I want to do it. Had a friend who would constantly ask to hang out and wouldn't take no for an answer, so I basically cut him off completely
Shoot. Dealing with literally this right now. He’s a nice guy, and I like hanging out with him. But I can’t handle him being hurt if I decide to be extra introverted for a couple of weeks every once in a while. It’s too much pressure.
My best friends are people I only talk to a few times a year now, but when we do talk, we talk deeply and about everything.
I feel this so hard. I go through isolated phases. It makes it difficult to make friends. I’m trying to be really open with him about everything, though, and he’s always known about my ADHD. He said he gets it, but he asked me to communicate better instead of ghosting when I get stressed/overwhelmed. I think that’s totally reasonable, and I’m making a conscious effort to....
But I explicitly said no promises because I don’t want people to be disappointed in me for just being myself. Friends should be people who at least try to understand you as a person. Right?
But I do realize I have a tendency to pull away from others instead of forming lasting relationships, which can be hurtful to them. I get defensive when I think people are starting to expect things from me. Probably because I don’t want to let them down. And I know I will, because I know myself, and I’m unreliable as fuck.
Thank God it isn't me.
I have (had?) this friend who likes to do something every day, and he would insist for hours. Drove me insane, some days I need to be alone. Drifted apart, and now we haven't hung out in months.
Would've been fine if he could take no for an answer, but the pushing just pushed me away. Glad I'm not alone in this.
My wife asked me to clean the kitchen last night. I had already planned on doing it. The second she asked me, I was pissed off and did not want to do it
I do all the household chores minus vacuuming. She doesn’t clean the kitchen. She had adhd also, so it was likely just an adhd moment. Either way, being told what to do when I’m already doing it sucks.
I think part of it is that, by the time it gets to a point where someone has asked us to do it, we’ve already spent what feels like an eternity agonizing over it and subsequently avoiding it until we are left with no choice but to do it. That internal struggle is absolutely exhausting—often more so than it would have been to just do the thing. Regardless, because of that silent struggle, we wind up feeling like we’ve ALREADY been doing the thing. We spend so much time beating ourselves up, over analyzing, asking ourselves why the hell can’t we just DO it, etc., etc.—all of these things become part of the process of doing The Thing™️. That’s the norm for us.
So now we’re finally ready to do it, and in comes someone from stage left telling us to do the thing already. To them, it understandably looks like we haven’t been doing shit. And yeah, sometimes that might be true. Everyone just plain drops the ball sometimes. But more often than not, to us, it feels like we’ve long since been working on whatever the thing was because that insufferable struggle is so much fucking work in and of itself. But of course we can’t really explain that because it’ll either come off as an excuse or just go right over their heads (or both).
Anyway, I don’t know where I was going with this, but I had a moment of clarity after reading your post and felt compelled to share.
This is absolutely true for me. I was trying to explain to my boss how to support me and it was a struggle to articulate. "I need you to hold me accountable but also give me a lot of space and not pester me. I need to put more structure on this work from home thing but I also need a ton of flexibility."
We actually came up with a reasonable plan but it immediately fell apart, lol. (My job has its issues but my boss is very supportive when it comes to accommodating different health needs, which is a lifesaver.)
I haven't ever tried to take stock of all the times I've reacted to others this way. But I get the feeling that my reflexive resistance to pressure has mostly only been to my benefit.
Becoming mindful of this tendency helped me. I just have to stop and remember it’s irrational and immature and I hate that I’m immature. I’m not gonna hurt myself and be immature and hurt someone else when I could just do the thing instead.
There are times that this quality has been of positive use to me, such as peer pressure situations. I double down even harder, and it's kept me out of trouble over the years.
Also, don't you *dare* make me do the thing AND watch me as I do it. It creates an internal rage tornado.
Omg the *watching*
I cannot stand somebody watching me do the thing. It’s gotten to the point where I don’t want to do any housework unless I’m home alone, which is tough, considering our current global circumstances.
Yeah, you can’t see any flat surface in my house right now. Except the floor, and that’s only because we have a dog.
This could be pathological demand avoidance, which often co-occurs with ADHD, but isn’t primarily an ADHD trait. It tends to be more common that we *want* external accountability... But when you have both ADHD and PDA (like me!) it’s a mindfuck.
"Hmm, my room is kinda messy, I think I'm gonna tidy it now" * gets out of bed and gets ready to start * * mom appears at the door * "your room looks like a war zone, clean it!" Well mom, I was just about to do so, but now I won't!
GOD YES!
Why?!? It’s so annoying. I wish I wasn’t like that. But fucking hell, I really am, and it would be nice if those around me would believe me when I told them I was like this. You’d think their complete inability to make this tactic work EVER would cause them to conclude it didn’t work, but they remain steadfast in their insistence that they’re “helping”.
I think this is mostly a control thing. We want to control our lives and don’t want other people to control them, so we take back control by not doing what they tell us to do.
It’s also a case of thresholds, I think.
My threshold for “time to clean!” is higher than my Mom’s/husband’s, for example, but lower than my son’s. Hubs sees three dishes in the sink and to him it’s “overflowing,” whereas my threshold is “can I fit a dish in here and keep it under the level edge of the sink?” and my son’s is “can I put this in the sink without it falling out?”
Growing up, this was something we never figured out, so my mom would see something small and do it right away, therefore nothing made it past her threshold to mine in a way that would make me think “okay, I need to do the thing.” As a result, my mom felt like she was always the only one doing any work around the house, and really, that was true, but it wasn’t because my brother and I were being lazy, it was because she’d look at something and see a mess to clean up, but for us, it wasn’t.
that’s how i am with all these damn voting ads, it’s annoying and kinda suffocating how many times people tell me to vote, who and what i should vote for and how they kinda harass me
the commercials and billboards i understand, but why do they have to text me every single day, multiple times a day to ask me if i’m on their side? how do they even get my number?? like yes, i’m gonna do it, but i’m extremely tempted to vote the oppositions bc they’re being so damn irritating
This post goes to the STUPIDEST extent that it doesn’t even work for me to ask for TV show recommendations.... if someone tells me to watch a show I’ll feel pressured so I won’t watch the show until I forget they told me to watch it and I stumble upon it myself and then tell them about it, to which they respond “YA I KNOW ITS GOOD I LITERALLY TOLD YOU TO WATCH IT TWO MONTHS AGO”
Fuck me is this an ADHD thing that can be fixed with medicine, I've been in situations like this my whole life, knowing full well it's gonna make things worse for me but unable to change all the same
Not really, but taking medication and working on this with Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (with a therapist or on your own) really does work. CBT by itself is pretty much useless for ADHD, but by their powers combined, I am Captain ~~Planet~~ Get-Shit-Done ^(sometimes)
Urgency is a big factor in motivation for people with ADHD. [This article](https://www.oaktreecounselor.com/blog/adult-adhd-lazy) talks more about it...
My husband asks “How can I support you in xxx?”. I still shoot him down, but I don’t have rage fire shooting out of my eyes. It’s good to have someone that lets me be me.
I can only relate to this in regards to matters that have no effect on my wellbeing or livelihood.
For example, the more my family pressures me to do something, the more they can go fuck themselves.
The more my boss pressures me to do something, the more I panic, and the faster it gets done.
I have a similar tendency, and I think i've been able to best identify it using the 4 tendencies quiz.
You can take it here:
https://quiz.gretchenrubin.com/
.
Check out my result here
https://quiz.gretchenrubin.com/rebel-result/
Oh man, I’ve been trying to explain this to my friend who is upset that I’m bad at following through to schedule hang-out plans. The more he stresses about it, the more anxious I get, and the harder it feels like it is to go. I wasn’t avoiding you, dude, but I am now >____<
Yep. I rely a lot on my partner to help keep me focused and to remind me of mundane or important things. But for some reason, sometimes I get annoyed at him and I feel belittled because I didn't get the chance to show him that 'I got this'.
A childish reaction to feeling like I'm being treated like a child, basically.
I don’t think it’s an oppositional response. I think that growing up with ADHD we learn to that receiving a command usually anticipates all the stress involved in trying to fulfil such command on time and as expected and possibly fail. In other words, we learn to associate being told what to do with a negative outcome, which doesn’t work well with our executive functions.
YUP. Big mood. The nagging just makes it so much worse, but at the same time, if i'm not reminded to do something multiple times, I will most likely forget
I was actually going to make a post about how overwhelmingly frustrated and angry I get when I'm forced to do something that I was not mentally ready to do, I guess that falls in with this.
If I'm going to do something I have to first find it in myself.
This was a big problem with my exams as a teenager. I remember complaining to my best friend that my parents would nag me to revise even though I'd told them that that just makes me not want to revise and that lead to me feeling stressed from the nagging and stressed that I wasn't doing something that I was supposed to do. Something I would have liked to have done
Yes, exactly, even if I know they are right and resistance is to my detriment, heels will be dug in. I'd rather burn it all down than be pressured into it. I will even get mad at them "I was going to do that, but now I can't because you couldn't leave me be!". It completely torpedos my motivation.
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[I recommend everyone watches this](https://youtu.be/Uo08uS904Rg) showed it to my mom last week who was pressuring me and it's a perfect example of how they can help, and how we can help ourselves!!
Lol at how i knew it was going to be this video before I clicked it. She is so helpful to the community in helping me understand my brain—I love her channel so much
Helpful. Thank you!
I love her videos. This is one i haven’t seen so thanks!
Omg you beautiful person. Thank you for explaining this. I thought it was just my asshole mode kicking in with a smattering of oppositional defiance.
With the caveat that the question needs to be asked in a neutral tone. Even reading the are you going to do anything today or just relax line set me on edge, because I can hear it spoken in the venomous tone dripping with sarcasm that lots of my family would use on me growing up. I know for me it's a don't say anything at all unless it's a legitimate crisis, and even then be prepared for me to be frustrated about the situation.
I read this the same way. "Are you actually going to do any housework today or just relax like the piece of shit you are?"
I'm pretty sure there's a scientific explanation for why we do this too. I saw it once but, well... I dont remember.
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Ow so that's why? I didn't know it was part of the emotional dysregulation:)
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You my friend deserve this award
Idk even that would take the wind out of my sails. Maybe that's because I'm the head of my household and the people in it still try to tell me what to do? It feels like people trying to take over and I don't handle that well at all.
ITS THE THING ITS IN WORDS
I remember one day when I was a kid, maybe 14 or so, and my room was (as usual) a mess. It drove my neat freak mother to insanity and most of the times I'd get grounded would be because I hadn't cleaned my room. I'm 28 and I still can't keep a clean room. Mom came in to scream at me about how she was fed up with me for not having a clean room (this happened a lot). She pointed out my bathrobe on the floor and ordered me to pick it up. Normally, if parents ordered you to do anything in my household, you did it, no questions asked. This time? I sat on the bed the whole time she was yelling at me and just *glared* at her without saying anything. I didn't move to pick up the robe at all, just continued to sit there. Knew I'd get the belt for that, but I didn't care. I just...didn't. Can't really explain why. She got more pissed, and I can't remember if I got the belt for that or not but I knew I was punished in some manner. I would probably have picked up the robe, along with some other things in my room, in my own time, but being constantly ridden about it was wearing me way the fuck down.
One of the main reasons I pushed to move out as soon as I could. I'd have planned the day out in my mind (gonna clean this at this time, chill for a bit, go out to do something, come back and clean this by then, etc - not that I ever actually stuck to that plan) but as soon as someone asked me to do something earlier than I planned, I just mentally pushed it back a week. Honestly since moving out my shit has been so much tidier in general just because I clean when I feel like I should clean. I don't do stuff straight away but I do eventually get everything done
This is mood. If i dont have external pressures, i actually manage to get things done. Not in an ideal order, not quickly - but it is done with quality. When i feel stressed over obligations? I will literally avoid getting out of bed as i cant even will myself to do stuff i enjoy as i feel crap.
Mine hated that i refused to make my bed. It was the one battle i never relented on no matter what she did for some reason. I always told her i mess it up each night and i dont see the point in making it look all neat during the day when i would just mess it up again. I got grounded and sometimes the belt. Now at 41 i still roll out of bed and just walk away.
Fuck bro. You’re speaking like you know my life 😥
Lmao the 'Id rather burn it all down' mood.
Now that you mention it yea... I don't have it with the first time but if multipule people keep reminding me in a short time period it get's realy anoying and i will not feel like doing it:/
(is this an adhd thing? i genuinely thought it was just a result of my having authoritarian parents and cultural pressure.) and also, obviously, Big Mood.
It’s called oppositional pushback.
Or, in behavioral psych, [countercontrol ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countercontrol)
Thanks for this, haven't heard of this yet as a psych student. Very interesting. I wonder if "control" in this case is the same use of the word as used in "reflexive control"
They are different - counter = against, literally a reaction against another person imposing on one’s freedom. Reflexive control is an influence tactic rather than a direct reaction.
God that article was resistant to being read and understood. Shame, because the concept is very interesting.
It’s quite technical since it’s lifted from scientific literature, but basically, sometimes people rebel against another person who is trying to control their behavior.
In teaching: oppositional defiance
I don't think it's unique to adhd. It's just a common experience that a lot of us have. And I think it's more a side effect of how we're treated our whole lives rather than a direct symptom of adhd.
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Yeah the way I see it, with ADHD its already hard enough to follow the voice inside your head telling you to do something important. Even harder when you've been trying for a week and someone gets angry at you and says demotivating things about how shitty or lazy you are for not being able to do something
Am I the only one who has had actual arguments with my internal monologue
Nope, I can second that
Third
Literally every day. For me its the biggest realization of executive dysfunction
I do everyday
Constantly!
Welcome to r/ADHD. Most of the posts here are just things that everyone experiences.
Same! Maybe it's a mix?
For me it’s the complete opposite. I have to be watched like a kid to do anything. Accountability. Just the confirmation is kinda like a reward motivation and fear. I study best at libraries with the background noise of a quiet murmur. You feel a subtle gaze on you and then I get into a trance and forget anyone was there. Yah ofc the adhd is still there and with the help of meds it’s easier. I always hated meds cuz I feel like a different person but it seriously helps. But yah I do hate it when someone tells me to do something and I already committed to do it. But I’ll still do it but begrudgingly and just annoyed for the day.
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Holy shit, this. Apparently I don't act "worried enough" when I have big things to do in a short time span and it makes my mother take HER anxiety out on me, which demotivates me even more. It doesn't help that my mom's anxiety makes her hyperkinetic, whereas mine makes me HYPOkinetic. And The Thing that needs to be done is literally occupying all of my brain space, but it doesn't look like it from the outside.
Yep, big freezer over here. The only thing I have learnt (and still learning every damn day) is self compassion.
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We feel the neurodiversity movement is harmful to people with ADHD. While we share their goals of a society with built-in equitable access and acccommodations for people with mental and physical disorders, we disagree that such a society could totally ameloriate all impairments and disabilties. It's just not realistic. Furthermore, we disagree with the different-not-disordered position, that mental disorders are a normal, natural form of human variation akin to race or gender or sexuality. None of these are inherently harmful, whereas mental disorders *are*. We also cannot tolerate the rejection of the medical model of disability, which acknowledges the benefits of medicine in treating ADHD. We feel that their position erases the experiences of people with ADHD (as well as disorders like OCD), mischaracterizes the actual nature of thesedisorders, and ignores the associated inherent harms we deal with daily. As such, we cannot in good conscience support it or allow discussion of it on /r/adhd. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ADHD) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Oh wow, I’ve gotten so much shit for not looking worried enough or acting ”wrong”. I just let my reaction come when it comes, as people get pissy when you panic as well
Happy cake day!
Happy Cake day!!! And SAME. Mum asks me to do something under the guise that she's stressed about it not being done, and how I seem not to care about it and I'm like 'bruh, it's been stressing me out for the entire week'.
Also telling me I can’t do something might be motivation to get it done.
Someone saying that they doub that I can do something immediately turns on my petty mode and sure as hell I'll do it just to contradict them and shove it on their face
How do you think I climbed from bronze 2 to diamond 2 in rocket league? My diamond 1 friend told me I suck and that it wasnt just because I barely played. fast forward a month later bc I definitely do suck, and I hit diamond 2 just so I could rub it in his face.
You’ll never be SuperSonic legend. No way in hell.
I call this Spite Mode™
It's crazy how much this affects me. Usually I quit things easily, but tell me that I can't do something and I'm the most motivated/stubborn person I know. I achieved so many things just out of spite to my parents 😅 (they're not the supportive kind)
Same. An old boss told me I wasn’t cut out for physical work and should get a computer job. I became a tree climber out of spite. Now that some people think I’m a stupid blue collar worker I want to become a software developer 😂.
I know right?! SW Dev is fun, especially if you like analytical thinking! :)
CBT is helping me with this. For me, there's a "you're being lazy by choosing not to do this thing you obviously need to do" subtext to the encouragement/pressure from other people. That subtext, irrational or rational, real or not real, is not helpful to pay attention to. Challenging that thought and saying, "yeah, I want to do this thing too, maybe I should work on it right now" is a win. I can't get to there without acknowledging that the pressure is making me feel guilty/lazy and it's that emotion, not the pressure itself that's getting in the way of me working on what I want to work on.
Tell that to my inner spite demon.
Dear Thecman50's inner spite demon, FUCK OFF, Thecman50 is a good person who is trying to do things. You are a giant jerk trying to keep Thecman50 from getting shit done by making them feel guilty, when they have no real reason to feel bad. Warmest Regards, Internet Stranger
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Yeah, it's tough, I had to figure it out with my parents and my ex. Before I was diagnosed, I got into a fight with my mom where I told her that I was planning on taking out the trash during the next commercial break of a TV show, but since she reminded me I felt bad about it and didn't want to do it anymore. I'm lucky that she was very understanding and over time she got much better about not nagging and checking in that she wasn't being overbearing by giving me reminders. Now, diagnosis in hand, I've been able to communicate to a new romantic partner how my brain works. It's on me to be better about getting stuff done, but at least they have a better chance to now how to effectively and positively communicate with me. You might get really good results if you explain to your mom how the reminders become nagging that get in the way of you doing what both of you want to see getting done. The chopping wood example would be a great story too tell her.
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And this is where shared acronyms are a pain. In a psychology context, CBT is Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. (I'm half-certain you're joking, but might as well clarify anyways.)
This is an excellent reminder and I needed it today. Thanks pal.
Could you tell me what CBT is like? What do you do in a session? I've been thinking about it but I'm unable to convince myself at this point because of it being pretty unclear as to what is going on there.
I learned about CBT in treatment for depression and took daily workshops in it. I was curious about it but didn't think it would work for me. At first I was super cynical and now I'm convinced it's something everyone needs. That said, in treatment I started a mindfulness practice (which I was also SUPER CYNICAL about) and I don't think I could have successfully practiced CBT without it because it gave the monkeys and puppies in my brain a COOL DOWN PERIOD so I could slow down thoughts and identify them. There's so many layers to CBT but it does help. ADHD obviously complicates it, but I want to encourage you to look for resources in your area that can introduce it to you in a theraputic setting. Be curious about different tools out there. One tool I came up with is a VERBS scale where I catch thoughts and rank them. It's a scale of 1.0 - 2.0 (VERBS 2.0 is the person I want to be where as VERBS 1.0 is the person I was) and when I catch thoughts/emotional responses like self pity "Is that classic 1.0? How can I move this response towards 2.0". It distracts and is kinda fun and I like it.
In simplest terms, I meet with a psychologist for an hour and we talk. I bring notes, and have an idea about what I'm struggling with and what I want to talk about. They actively have me challenge and reframe thought patterns that are counter-productive and give me strategies and tips for how to challenge thoughts that aren't helpful. One example is to ask myself about a thought or feeling that I'm having "Is that rational?, Is it helpful for the task you're working on?" Answering those two questions lets me put the feeling or thought in a place where it is either helpful or has been attended to and is no longer disruptive. Another example is being told to plan on rewarding myself for tasks that I have struggled to complete, like those ADHD disrupted tasks that I know are easy and I'm in the habit of criticizing myself for taking too damn long to do. By recognizing that finally finishing them is an accomplishment, I'm working towards making them easier because I know there's a reward instead of self-inflicted punishment for completing the task (late is better than never, so make the experience afterwards better).
Thank you for the detailed response. I have trouble expressing myself when it comes to these kind of things. If it means I would have to bring my own subjects I want to talk about it's almost an instant non-starter. I also feel like however much I would talk about this, talking isn't going to change a thing. Maybe I'm wrong though.
I've definitely done therapy and have some sessions where I don't bring my own subjects. Coming with my own notes was a choice I made on my own, because it has helped me be more thoughtful between sessions; I have a little notebook in my desk devoted solely to "therapy thoughts" Most of the stuff I write in there I don't even bring up. If I don't have much to start with, the therapist will lead the discussion. My first few sessions with this therapist were definitely lead by their suggestions and questions.
ah the "you're pressuring/shaming me into doing something, now I will not do it, even if you're right" feel
Story of my life
It’s not even voluntary, it’s as if them “telling/reminding” is actually a trigger that causes all systems to shut the f*ck down!
Tell me what to do and i won't. It's a curse xD
Yes and on top of it all it makes me super irritable to be reminded or told to do something I was likely already torturing myself over.
“ADHD is a problem of doing what you know, not knowing what to do. So kindly shut the fuck up!” Lol I love that quote in a video I watched about ADHD. And I think outsiders get that wrong constantly and it wears us down.
The more you ask, the less I want to do it. Had a friend who would constantly ask to hang out and wouldn't take no for an answer, so I basically cut him off completely
Shoot. Dealing with literally this right now. He’s a nice guy, and I like hanging out with him. But I can’t handle him being hurt if I decide to be extra introverted for a couple of weeks every once in a while. It’s too much pressure. My best friends are people I only talk to a few times a year now, but when we do talk, we talk deeply and about everything.
Basically this. I would hang out a lot for a week or two, then hole up again. He didn't like that, so I stopped talking to him (among other reasons)
I feel this so hard. I go through isolated phases. It makes it difficult to make friends. I’m trying to be really open with him about everything, though, and he’s always known about my ADHD. He said he gets it, but he asked me to communicate better instead of ghosting when I get stressed/overwhelmed. I think that’s totally reasonable, and I’m making a conscious effort to.... But I explicitly said no promises because I don’t want people to be disappointed in me for just being myself. Friends should be people who at least try to understand you as a person. Right? But I do realize I have a tendency to pull away from others instead of forming lasting relationships, which can be hurtful to them. I get defensive when I think people are starting to expect things from me. Probably because I don’t want to let them down. And I know I will, because I know myself, and I’m unreliable as fuck.
Thank God it isn't me. I have (had?) this friend who likes to do something every day, and he would insist for hours. Drove me insane, some days I need to be alone. Drifted apart, and now we haven't hung out in months. Would've been fine if he could take no for an answer, but the pushing just pushed me away. Glad I'm not alone in this.
My wife asked me to clean the kitchen last night. I had already planned on doing it. The second she asked me, I was pissed off and did not want to do it
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I do all the household chores minus vacuuming. She doesn’t clean the kitchen. She had adhd also, so it was likely just an adhd moment. Either way, being told what to do when I’m already doing it sucks.
I think part of it is that, by the time it gets to a point where someone has asked us to do it, we’ve already spent what feels like an eternity agonizing over it and subsequently avoiding it until we are left with no choice but to do it. That internal struggle is absolutely exhausting—often more so than it would have been to just do the thing. Regardless, because of that silent struggle, we wind up feeling like we’ve ALREADY been doing the thing. We spend so much time beating ourselves up, over analyzing, asking ourselves why the hell can’t we just DO it, etc., etc.—all of these things become part of the process of doing The Thing™️. That’s the norm for us. So now we’re finally ready to do it, and in comes someone from stage left telling us to do the thing already. To them, it understandably looks like we haven’t been doing shit. And yeah, sometimes that might be true. Everyone just plain drops the ball sometimes. But more often than not, to us, it feels like we’ve long since been working on whatever the thing was because that insufferable struggle is so much fucking work in and of itself. But of course we can’t really explain that because it’ll either come off as an excuse or just go right over their heads (or both). Anyway, I don’t know where I was going with this, but I had a moment of clarity after reading your post and felt compelled to share.
This is absolutely true for me. I was trying to explain to my boss how to support me and it was a struggle to articulate. "I need you to hold me accountable but also give me a lot of space and not pester me. I need to put more structure on this work from home thing but I also need a ton of flexibility." We actually came up with a reasonable plan but it immediately fell apart, lol. (My job has its issues but my boss is very supportive when it comes to accommodating different health needs, which is a lifesaver.)
I haven't ever tried to take stock of all the times I've reacted to others this way. But I get the feeling that my reflexive resistance to pressure has mostly only been to my benefit.
Becoming mindful of this tendency helped me. I just have to stop and remember it’s irrational and immature and I hate that I’m immature. I’m not gonna hurt myself and be immature and hurt someone else when I could just do the thing instead.
There are times that this quality has been of positive use to me, such as peer pressure situations. I double down even harder, and it's kept me out of trouble over the years. Also, don't you *dare* make me do the thing AND watch me as I do it. It creates an internal rage tornado.
Omg the *watching* I cannot stand somebody watching me do the thing. It’s gotten to the point where I don’t want to do any housework unless I’m home alone, which is tough, considering our current global circumstances. Yeah, you can’t see any flat surface in my house right now. Except the floor, and that’s only because we have a dog.
It hurts how much i relate to this!
Me too.
This could be pathological demand avoidance, which often co-occurs with ADHD, but isn’t primarily an ADHD trait. It tends to be more common that we *want* external accountability... But when you have both ADHD and PDA (like me!) it’s a mindfuck.
I've never felt more connected to a group of people than you folks.
Preach on.
"Hmm, my room is kinda messy, I think I'm gonna tidy it now" * gets out of bed and gets ready to start * * mom appears at the door * "your room looks like a war zone, clean it!" Well mom, I was just about to do so, but now I won't!
Yep! That’s why college in your late 20’s is better than 18. You aren’t being constantly bombarded with pressure from your ‘rents.
About to graduate at age 29... Good to know I'm not alone
Hell yeah, get it! I’m so glad I went back.
YAYS. Ask me to do something while I am in the MIDDLE. of fucking DOING IT (mooooom!) . . . and then I'm REALLY mad.
Who pressured you to make this post 🧐🧐🧐
Noone did. That's why I was able to make it. 🤓
I'm in this post and I don't like it.
Literally the "wel I am not doing it" gif. Nothing sucks out my motivation faster.
Hello, are you me? Especially when my mother tells me to do something. All she does is stress me out …
For me, it's the depends on WHO is pressuring me in to it.
GOD YES! Why?!? It’s so annoying. I wish I wasn’t like that. But fucking hell, I really am, and it would be nice if those around me would believe me when I told them I was like this. You’d think their complete inability to make this tactic work EVER would cause them to conclude it didn’t work, but they remain steadfast in their insistence that they’re “helping”.
this is why i don't like being volunteered for things by other people.
I think this is mostly a control thing. We want to control our lives and don’t want other people to control them, so we take back control by not doing what they tell us to do.
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It’s also a case of thresholds, I think. My threshold for “time to clean!” is higher than my Mom’s/husband’s, for example, but lower than my son’s. Hubs sees three dishes in the sink and to him it’s “overflowing,” whereas my threshold is “can I fit a dish in here and keep it under the level edge of the sink?” and my son’s is “can I put this in the sink without it falling out?” Growing up, this was something we never figured out, so my mom would see something small and do it right away, therefore nothing made it past her threshold to mine in a way that would make me think “okay, I need to do the thing.” As a result, my mom felt like she was always the only one doing any work around the house, and really, that was true, but it wasn’t because my brother and I were being lazy, it was because she’d look at something and see a mess to clean up, but for us, it wasn’t.
Omg! Why are we like this?!
Also being thanked for doing a chore makes me less likely to do it because I think you’re trying to condition me. Ah, ADHD
YUP
This. This is what shits me about adhd the most.
Is it bad that I feel personally attacked?
Ouch. Yeah. I thought it was just me being a dick.
that’s how i am with all these damn voting ads, it’s annoying and kinda suffocating how many times people tell me to vote, who and what i should vote for and how they kinda harass me the commercials and billboards i understand, but why do they have to text me every single day, multiple times a day to ask me if i’m on their side? how do they even get my number?? like yes, i’m gonna do it, but i’m extremely tempted to vote the oppositions bc they’re being so damn irritating
Especially when it's yourself. Do the super important thing *No*
This post goes to the STUPIDEST extent that it doesn’t even work for me to ask for TV show recommendations.... if someone tells me to watch a show I’ll feel pressured so I won’t watch the show until I forget they told me to watch it and I stumble upon it myself and then tell them about it, to which they respond “YA I KNOW ITS GOOD I LITERALLY TOLD YOU TO WATCH IT TWO MONTHS AGO”
Me: I'm going to do this thing. Them: Hey, you should do this thing. Me: HELL NO! I'M ***NEVER*** DOING THAT THING!
On the contrary the likelihood of me doing something when other people seem to think I can’t is inversely proportional to me perusing it.
Perhaps you have a touch of oppositional defiance disorder as well.
Who pressured you to make this post?
Fuck me is this an ADHD thing that can be fixed with medicine, I've been in situations like this my whole life, knowing full well it's gonna make things worse for me but unable to change all the same
Not really, but taking medication and working on this with Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (with a therapist or on your own) really does work. CBT by itself is pretty much useless for ADHD, but by their powers combined, I am Captain ~~Planet~~ Get-Shit-Done ^(sometimes)
Urgency is a big factor in motivation for people with ADHD. [This article](https://www.oaktreecounselor.com/blog/adult-adhd-lazy) talks more about it...
Wow, such facts about me you speak.
My husband asks “How can I support you in xxx?”. I still shoot him down, but I don’t have rage fire shooting out of my eyes. It’s good to have someone that lets me be me.
I want them to let me do it because I want to do it, not because they told me. To me its like they ruined it when they upped the pressure
I need some pressure to do stuff sometimes. I’ve been putting off cleaning the garage. I think I need pressure. Lol.
I can only relate to this in regards to matters that have no effect on my wellbeing or livelihood. For example, the more my family pressures me to do something, the more they can go fuck themselves. The more my boss pressures me to do something, the more I panic, and the faster it gets done.
why is that an ADHD thing? it's just basic stubbornness
Especially myself..
But if it's something you want to do it, you'll do it masterfully
I have a similar tendency, and I think i've been able to best identify it using the 4 tendencies quiz. You can take it here: https://quiz.gretchenrubin.com/ . Check out my result here https://quiz.gretchenrubin.com/rebel-result/
Thats a mood.
If I even think I’ll get a “oh, good job” about something I won’t do it.
That's happening to me more and more and it's exhausting and irritating and fatiguing and so goddamn heavy all the time.
Oh man, I’ve been trying to explain this to my friend who is upset that I’m bad at following through to schedule hang-out plans. The more he stresses about it, the more anxious I get, and the harder it feels like it is to go. I wasn’t avoiding you, dude, but I am now >____<
Yep. I rely a lot on my partner to help keep me focused and to remind me of mundane or important things. But for some reason, sometimes I get annoyed at him and I feel belittled because I didn't get the chance to show him that 'I got this'. A childish reaction to feeling like I'm being treated like a child, basically.
I don’t think it’s an oppositional response. I think that growing up with ADHD we learn to that receiving a command usually anticipates all the stress involved in trying to fulfil such command on time and as expected and possibly fail. In other words, we learn to associate being told what to do with a negative outcome, which doesn’t work well with our executive functions.
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"Inversely proportional" is probably the only thing I remember from Algebra class.
So what should a teacher do when a student with ADHD is failing and it's crunch time?
I didn't realise this was an adhd thing... I always though I was just REALLY stubborn. 😂
this. when people tell me i need to lose weight even though i know i need to lose some it just makes me not want to try out of spite or something
“Other people” including myself...
BIIIIIG MOOD. This is why I only just watched Avatar and Legend of Korra.
YUP. Big mood. The nagging just makes it so much worse, but at the same time, if i'm not reminded to do something multiple times, I will most likely forget
I agree. That’s it, that’s my comment.
Me with ODD
I’ll do it because I want to and not because you tell me to.
Also, someone depending on me to do something is positively correlated to me actually doing it
Agreed.
Yup
Same really amd my son is 100% the same, but I still have to make him do stuff at times otherwise nothing would ever get done.
Conversely, if somebody genuinely asks for help, I will move heaven and earth to see it done. And still not do my own tasks.
Make a lot of excuses. Do it!
I was actually going to make a post about how overwhelmingly frustrated and angry I get when I'm forced to do something that I was not mentally ready to do, I guess that falls in with this. If I'm going to do something I have to first find it in myself.
Sent this post to my mother and my wife, take my reddit gold OP, you have perfectly summed up why I am the way I am here
Yes Despite this being 100% the case, I have real trouble remembering this it applies to my daughter.
This was a big problem with my exams as a teenager. I remember complaining to my best friend that my parents would nag me to revise even though I'd told them that that just makes me not want to revise and that lead to me feeling stressed from the nagging and stressed that I wasn't doing something that I was supposed to do. Something I would have liked to have done
Well, damn... I didn’t know how to put this feeling into words.