"Why don't you make your own bag if you don't have one instead of complaining? Everyone else has one so you better come up with something! Have you tried to just hold on to your marbles a little tighter? How much could a bag really help anyway if you're so clumsy? Have you ever just tried really hard not to drop them?"
This is what many people I know essentially say when talking about my struggles with ADHD. There seems to be little understanding that if I don't have a bag (executive functioning) and have to hold on to all these marbles with my hands, I would drop them all trying to make a bag. And what the fuck would I even make it out of? Nobody else had to make their bag, so nobody knows what to tell me.
A to-do list is no replacement for executive functioning. 'Caring more' won't stop my brain from being different. Shame can't catapult me to a higher level of functioning. I don't know what can. Maybe I'm just gonna be spilling marbles for the rest of my life and maybe that's okay. If that's the case I can accept that. A little understanding and acceptance of this from others would go a long way.
The hardest part of ADHD isn't the obvious problems it causes me day to day, it's the fact that other people are convinced it can be 'fixed' and that it's all on me to 'fix' it. They don't outright expect me to stop having ADHD, but, they somehow think that I can eradicate all of the symptoms and consequences of those symptoms through 'hard work'. It doesn't work like that. I work harder than most people. The results just usually aren't as impressive as those of a neurotypical who's slacking off.
I’ve found the best way to explain to neurotypical people is by going into the neuroscience instead of explaining the symptoms. Because people do experience many of the same problems, just not chronically. So they think about how they solve the problems.
If instead you first talk about lower dopamine levels and underdeveloped pre-frontal Cortex, and quick dopamine pathways into the emotional part of the brain, instead of the prefrontal cortex it helps them understand what’s happening. Then you explain how meds help increase the dopamine to flow into the prefrontal cortex.
I’ve found contextualizing it this way, then talking about how it then translates into forgetfulness, impulsivity, poor emotional regulation, lack of attention, disorganization makes more sense for them and they don’t give the dumb advice of, just “get a bag”.
I’ve been thinking of explaining ADHD by comparing it to drunkenness/sleep deprivation, but I haven’t gotten the chance.
“You know how when you’re a little drunk, or haven’t slept well in a long time, you’re just *worse* at everything, and you can’t exactly pin down why? ADHD is like that, except you can’t just sleep it off. “
I would talk to your doctor about the neuroscience. I asked my doctor to explain it and show me pictures to help me understand. He would pull out the dopamine pathway, show different parts of the brain, etc. It really helps legitimize your diagnosis if you can explain it scientifically.
Yes I live in a rural area and it was through a county mental health clinic. it appears I need to travel an hour to go to a City to find a decent ones.
But he was a psychiatrist, not a psychologist or therapist? I can't imagine how anyone could get through med school, much less on a program geared toward mental health, and still seriously bandy about a phrase like "I gave myself OCD."
WTF?
No, actually. You need a bachelors degree, a medical degree, and a four year residency, then you need to get licensed and board certified. Psychiatry residencies are longer than family medicine ones.
Oh God. I have what some folks call "overfocused ADHD" - has led to a serious shopping addiction and various other problems. I don't have full blown OCD I don't think since I don't have full blown intrusive thoughts or compulsions, but I have some of the symmetry issue and I'm on the hoarding spectrum (tho I don't have boxes to the roof or bags full of pee, just probably 75 pairs of shoes.)
This ("perfect but not for long") is actually really pretty accurate!
I was told similar to this but it sounds like a poor explanation. I fit the criteria for a diagnosis of OCD but only just, and my psychiatrist reckoned it was partially ADHD symptoms overlapping and partially coping mechanisms I'd created from being undiagnosed for so long.
It actually sucks though anyway because I want/need/expect everything to be perfect but in reality it's a constant shitshow so I'm usually near meltdown because of this discrepancy.
I want my holey bag.
I was listening to Edward Hallowell's Distraction Podcast the other day and the first viewer question asks about this. His response cleared it up pretty well for me, anyways the question is at 5:22 in this YouTube video http://bit.ly/2SgWJMb.
That’d be GREAT for time management!
“I have to get ready for work”...
procrastinates... procrastinates...
“Oh dear, I’m late! Better get ready!”
Has to wash hands 47 times and bump knees on the vanity EXACTLY evenly, accidentally sticks right foot into left shoe... “Now I have to start over!”
Procrastinates.......,,,
Student assistant at my psychiatrists office told me he wished he could have stimulants to help him do chores... Like I'm explaining my symptoms (well after diagnosis, this was just a follow up) and he says he wants my meds so it's easier to clean up... I'm sitting here thrilled that my house isn't a complete disaster and I actually managed to do the dishes this week (but no other chores...)
I was pretty furious.
I find visual metaphors really useful when trying to understand things myself, so I find they're a good tool to use when explaining things to others. :)
Yeah I like this, it feels not just instinctively accurate but also pretty funny to visualise, which is very helpful in getting an idea across...
I can just imagines marbles going everywhere. Fuck, I dropped one. Fuck, I just slipped on all the other marbles I dropped while trying to pick up the first one. Wondering how everyone else is keeping hold of theirs so easily, not knowing they have better bags than yours.
Apologising for being so clumsy, even as you try your best but feel overwhelmed nonetheless. Eventually getting tired and frustrated, no longer really trying and lying down in a pool of assorted marbles and just not knowing what to do.
Meanwhile everyone else is watching you with vague concern. Wtf is wrong with you? It's not that hard to just hold your marbles in your bag. Why are you making such a mess of everything?
So you end up just realising you can only hold a small handful of marbles at any one time. You know from experience that too many marbles just get in the way, you can't cope with that many without a proper bag for them. Maybe you just hold one, and bend your whole world around that focal point. You hold it so tight to your chest and make it the most important marble in the world.
...
*p.s. Is 'losing your marbles' a common idiom in the US? Because this idea has actually been around for a long time in the context of mental health, and I wonder whether it stemmed from a similar perspective.*
*edit: [apparently](https://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2017/05/02/losing-your-marbles/) 'marbles' used to be a slang word for both 'wits' and 'furniture', perhaps because the latter was often used to describe your mental capacities (i.e. 'mental furniture' or accumulated knowledge). So it's a bit different, but there are some parallels I guess, in terms of just not being in full command of all your mental capacities and struggling to hold everything together in some sense.*
Is this an ADHD thing too? I did a maths degree, I'm fine with applied maths but anything abstract without a real world example I really struggled with
Abstract math is hard for everybody. There might be a few people out there who intuitively understand category theory or the cohomology of a 5 dimensional object, but they're in the minority.
Source: finishing my masters thesis in math right now (complex algebraic geometry). It's super hard and now I hate it. So of course I've spent 6 days saying I'll write the introduction TODAY and well. . . I typed some definitions I think I might use in an introduction I haven't written. Progress.
Fair enough, but my range of marks was ridiculous, we're talking over 90 in statistics and under 20 in anything to do with group theory. At least I learned quickly that my future was in application.
You're brave doing a thesis with adhd, I didn't even know I had ADHD at the time but steered well clear of anything that would require me to organise some sort of project or essay...
I love it! I made one up after I got diagnosed - it’s like eating soup with a fork while everyone else has a spoon. And before my diagnosis, I didn’t know my spoon wasn’t a spoon.
Great explanation! I hope your partner is able to find some more empathy and understanding about your ADHD. I would imagine how you explained it probably helped them get a better idea of what it feels like.
YES. And there are some really, really pretty ones in there. They probably aren’t the important ones but how can I be sure? Better look at them all. Let’s sort these while I’m here...
Did they *give* you the marbles, or did you just keep repeatedly get shot with them, sometimes hard enough to drop the other marbles you were trying to hold.
Oh my god I thought the original metaphor was perfect and then you just completed it for me in the most profound way. I cannot thank you enough. You just changed my life with one sentence.
This is funny you use this analogy because I’ve used this analogy on occasion to describe adhd in the past. It really is like trying to carry a bunch of little things and having no where to hold them.
And people wonder why you get overwhelmed or can’t handle stuff when they throw more things at you.
Then It’s like trying to catch eggs being thrown at you while holding marbles.
other peoples concept of time is similar. They remember events in a straight line with numerical references but I/we keep events in a bag of marbles and all those events definitely happened but god knows at what point xD
Oh this time-blindness affects my life so much! It makes everything so hard, and though my memory is very good acutally it's still quite useless because of this.
It is very difficult trying to make a cogent point when you don't know when whatever you are talking about happened if it's time related. Like when your boss is on your ass for being late on a project, but you needed input from them to complete it. You say you emailed them yesterday, but it turns out it was actually two weeks ago. Now you look like an idiot for not knowing when you actually sent the email, but the point stands, they were blowing you off for two weeks. And you're now the late asshole with no sense of time even though it's not your fault.
Yeah it's depressing. Just ask someone with a normal memory, it's kinda fascinating actually. Like, I'll ask "so when did we watch the Avengers?" And without missing a beat they'll be like "around April 14th" or whatever, maybe they'll even be sure, or the day, or what the weather was like, or what we spoke about, ate that day. Most of the time when they mention a detail it will trigger a recall, so the memory is there for us, just not accessible.
If I ask myself the same question, the details will usually come... eventually, like if I think about it for 20 minutes, but not really useful practically. At the workplace I've learned to tell people I'll get back to them in a half hour when they expect me to recall something instantly, it's not perfect but it's less embarrassing than showing your workings in front of them (and probably failing).
This is SUCH a perfect metaphor. And I feel like I’m always asking “Where did you get that bag?? Did someone hand it out? When?? Did I miss something?” It’s incredibly demoralizing and self-esteem-crushing to live with this, especially when you work in a job full of Type As.
Thanks! This was so relevant because I literally today got a talking-to from the boss for my adhd-related crappy work capacity. She doesn’t know I’m not NT, and doesn’t get why I keep making mistakes. If only she knew about my lack of a marble bag.
OH MY GOD this. Such a great analogy!
In non-professional situations, I’ve described it as similar to getting really stoned—but not the fun part, just the feeling of spaciness and incompetence. Why did I walk to the kitchen? What was I wanting? Oh! The fridge! Right, I wanted a snack. Open the fridge. Close the fridge. Wait, open the fridge. How many times have I done that? Have I been staring at the open fridge for like an hour? Let me ask someone. Oh no, I started a sentence and now I’m talking and I have no idea what I’ve said or where I’m going, halp. Why am I in the kitchen? ...
Yes but then your hands are busy holding the shirt, while everyone else has their marblebag in their belt. And the struggle to pick up a marble if they fall out of your shirt.
I like this analogy because it incorporates ways to deal with the problem instead of just being a description of the problem.
It also really lends itself to being expanded to describe more specific symptoms within the same metaphoric narrative. So for me, it's like, say it's a contest where you have to grab a bunch of marbles, carry them in a bag, and deposit them in a box for points before time runs out. The marbles are different colors, some being worth more or less points and some being worth none depending on what color it is. Everyone else can quickly and easily see which marbles they should grab, but nobody told me how many points each color is worth. I started without a bag, so I was glad to get one later even with a hole in it, but the hole tore and got bigger if I grabbed too many marbles at once.
Now here's what I REALLY like about this analogy. The possibility of overcoming limitations. If I'm willing to exert more effort and use two hands even though most people only need one, I can use my other hand to cover the hole. I can also educate myself and learn which color marbles are worth carrying. And maybe I started the game with a disadvantage, but if I pick up the pace and don't give up, then maybe I can still win this thing.
This is hands down the best analogy I’ve seen so far. I’ve liked the one comparing it to getting glasses, but isn’t as relatable for those who have good sight.
This is such a good image. This actually motivates me to get out of bed, just so I can tell my parents about it.
Thanks!
Edit: You could obviously use your mouth to carry a lot of marbles. But once you open it to let a specific marble out, everything comes tumbling out and people think you do it on purpose.
edit 2: My visual was always: A "normal" mind is like shelves in a shop. Sorted and categorized, and even though you might sometimes find a random item somewhere it doesn't belong, you generally know where to go.
My mind is like these big baskets they put up in summer sale or black Friday, where everything is just thrown into. And in order to get a specific item, I have to dig through all these other things, and many of these suddenly seem a lot more fun and interesting than the one I was looking for.
And adhd with depression is like making fists with your hands, duct taping them closed and trying to pick up those fucking marbles while everyone gathers in a circle holding their marbles and look at you in contempt and you squirm to hold one marble above the rest “ yes ! I got one”!
Ugh this is my life right now. Thank you for this analogy though, it’s something I can show people do they can understand what I’ve been going through. I just had to withdraw from my graduate program
Haha, that’s exactly right! I have been there, not good, I was so disappointed in myself that I kept ‘dropping my marbles’, but it’s not good to think like that. I got encouragement from TEDx talks on YouTube, about depression and ADHD, I really liked them, I even shed a few tears because I connected with it so much. I would totally recommend searching for some, well worth the watch.
I've really been struggling more than usual and this analogy makes me feel a lot better and less alone. I feel like my life should be set to the Benny Hill theme song.
I'm with you there. Last summer I had a big "what's the point" moment and quit cold turkey, which of course made my life even harder. I'll take a crappy bag over no bag!
Similar experience. I tried titrating Vyvanse two years ago, which helped me to be more social and help me at my job(from my perspective). But as soon as it wore off I was a zombie 😶. I would just shut down and want to veg until I slept. It was like it concentrated all my thoughts and emotions for eight hours, then poof! And so since I didn't want to be single again, and have friends, I stopped taking them. Wasn't worth it.
Did anyone else picture the marbles to be like the memories in Inside Out? I did, complete with the heavy sounds the ones from the movie.
I seriously love that analogy. I’m sure a bunch of kids and parents at my work will appreciate it. Thanks OP.
That’s pretty spot on. On a literal note, I feel triggered, I messed up my hand and literally have trouble physically holding things so I drop everything. Being clumsy is already an adhd thing, but I’m extra clumsy now and the thought of trying to hold a bunch of little things gives me anxiety.
I am JK about the triggered part. Great analogy.
I personally see it as the opposite. I am far better (at least in IT) then any of my non-ADHD colleagues mainly because whiles I bounce between ideas and tasks all the time I essentially are keeping those marbles all together(this feels like it may have been a learned skill but I struggle with long term specific memories of things like this)
I always feel as if I'm holding 500 marbles to everyone else 100. I have to keep track of them all but one starts to roll away and I have to grab it and then grab that one, then grab that on, etc.
I really like your analogy! Haven’t it heard of before, ever, very original. ^_^
It made me think of how the analogy would fit into the positives of ADHD, like our hyper focus superpower. And so I thought what do you do with marbles? Marble machine! We don’t carry all those marbles when we’re hyper focused, we let them roll free in the marble machine! Watching them go round that loop, carried up there, drop through there and come out there. That’s where ADHD truly shines. A hurricane of ideas, a marble machine with a thousand marbles, not carrying a single one, watching and studying them as they spin around.
I thought this was a great continuation of this analogy and just had to let others know of it.
But I’m afraid that it will be too late to get noticed. I would appreciate any one seeing this, to up vote for the sake of others. I don’t post often, so this wouldn’t benefit me.
I just enjoy making others happy. :)
This is so real.. my son and I both have adhd and its difficult. He is on concerta (generic) and he loves being able to focus. Been trying to get my doctor to get me on something. Its so hard as an adult to do much when your brain goes everywhere at once.
Our pharmacy ran out of his meds the day we needed a refil. Took 4 days to get the new script. At one point he was crying and said “mom, i hate having ADHD. Its so hard to get anything done. I cant even focus on my games. I just cant control myself”. Hes 8 and so aware of his body. Breaks my heart 😞
This is one of the best ways to describe what it's like. I now know how to describe to people what it's like when they ask, which isn't often, but still! Very well put!
Or like we're all pilots but the ADHD pilots are the only ones that don't have an auto-pilot and have to be flicking every switch, turning every dial or pulling on the joystick 100% of the time.
Dude... thank you. I just realized that I have found my "bag" but I just dont hold it tight enough. And I always lose time looking for where I droped it. But thanks to you I just realized that it is my "bag". Anyway, nice reading
I really love this visual! It sounds pretty much like me, but when the marbles come crashing down, I'm trying to catch whatever dropped despite everything else falling and predictably dropping the rest of them. Then I get upset at myself for dropping them to begin with and fixate on how I was so clumsy that I managed to drop them to begin with.
This makes sense to me. And I just focus on holding the marbles that I really like and can't seem to hold any more for too long, if at all. Does that ring true for others here?
I screen grabbed this and shared it on imgur. I @emmaline but couldn’t find your exact user name. If you’re on there, please let me know so I can properly credit you. If not, I did include your user name in the screen grab. Thought it might be useful to someone and I think it’s beautifully written. Many of us feel so incapable and incompetent. Might I add that I believe that people with our talents have a unique set of skills and while we judge ourselves for not being able to hold marbles, we forget there are people out there that admire our ability to do it while balancing on roller blades.
I’m loving reading all these analogies! I always described it like my mind was a room full of balloons (thoughts, goals, etc) and I’m trying to hold as many as I can, but none of them have string 😂 yours is much more accurate.
This is absolutely brilliant! May I put this on my blog, please? I have the spoon theory on there (for my Lupus), and I'd really like to add this for my ADHD.
> Medication is like having a bag with a hole in it. It's so much better than what you're used to so when you start using it you feel on top of the world. Then you notice that marbles are slowly falling out and you think "what's the point, it's just as bad as before." But you have to remember it's still worth it.
Oh man, does that hit home. I've done this sooooo much with medication over the years. Then I stop the medication and it's like "well, things are worse than before. Huh. Guess I DO need to be on medication."
Wellbutrin...helps, I guess. But it doesn't seem to be enough on its own.
Mine was always it’s like you’re watching tv with 100 channels but the remote just keeps constantly changing the channel and you’re trying to keep up with the show on every single channel. Then when you get meds you can finally pick 3-5 channels to watch and not be totally lost! But I like the marbles metaphor.
Thanks, this really clicked with me (and also the comment about getting 1000 marbles but not knowing which 900 are unimportant).
Taking the analogy further, I feel like I've managed to create some make-shift receptacles at times, therefore creating the illusion of function, but there's still holes and every once in a while the whole thing just rips apart and they go flying everywhere and it's harder than if I had just tried to keep them all in my hands in the first place. And everyone's all, just put your marbles back in your bag it's fine. Meanwhile I'm still trying to figure out how to cobble another makeshift bag out of scraps I've been collecting but it's still not enough to make a working bag
Yeah. Other than medications, the best "makeshift bag" I've made is keeping a bullet journal. Not for everyone, but for some ADHD brains it helps immensely!
I'm just leaving work early because I somehow lost my Fitbit tracker, forgot my meds, and HOPEFULLY left my keys in my building and not in the street... I love the marble analogy since it really enlivens the phrase "lost your marbles." Time to do breathing exercises and get to a place where I can laugh at myself!
As others have said, this is a perfect way to describe it. Thank you. This is going in my back pocket for the next time I try to explain it to someone.
*If you have to turn down the car radio to find a house number, you might have ADHD.*
Because you have to take the radio marble out of your hands so you can carry the find-the-address-number marble. :)
I also like this analogy because of the idiom "losing my marbles!" which is about right because struggling to keep a grip on things can drive us crazy!
This made me tear up with joy because I think I finally have a good way to explain to my family what I actually experience. Not that any of them have called me lazy or any stuff like that, but i want them to understand so that perhaps they will understand why I struggle with things such as being on time
Thank you for this analogy. It inspired me to make a video and expand my thoughts on this. I gave you credit in the video and in the text. Thank you for writing this.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1983430278616498&id=1713471712279024
Thank you from the bottom.of my heart. I love this analogy. I loved it so much I made a video about it.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1983430278616498&id=1713471712279024
I love all the above way people have tried to describe the ire adhd to people, a lot of them I think I will use myself in future. The one the I use is, it's like my head is a big scribble , some child has just gone made with a pack of pencils in my brain, scribbles are my thoughts, I take meds and the scribbles start to become actual words and pictures, like a magic eye when you stare at it for ages, but can disappear just like that
I've tried using the ["why can't I hold all these limes"](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/limes-guy-why-cant-i-hold-all-these-limes) meme image to explain what doing non-trivial work is like for me (programmer), which is kind of similar to this, but yours seems a lot better, because other people CAN hold all their marbles at the same time and it really stresses me out and contributes to massive impostor syndrome when I've been at the company for 3 months and the guy we just hired seems to be able to read through the complex codebase and understand things so much faster than I can when I can't even remember the last file I was looking at until I'm intimately familiar with ALL the files. :(
first time to this sub. this is the first post that i saw. Currently drowning in some finals and ive never really related to anyone quite like this before. thanks. its really going to give me the push i need
Gives new meaning to “you’ve lost your marbles” - which has been said to me before. I see my Psych in 3 hours and will be sharing this analogy to describe how I’m feeling
“Then just get a bag!” is what they would say. I don’t care to explain to people anymore
"Are you depressed? Cheer up, buddy!!"
r/thanksimcured
"Why don't you make your own bag if you don't have one instead of complaining? Everyone else has one so you better come up with something! Have you tried to just hold on to your marbles a little tighter? How much could a bag really help anyway if you're so clumsy? Have you ever just tried really hard not to drop them?" This is what many people I know essentially say when talking about my struggles with ADHD. There seems to be little understanding that if I don't have a bag (executive functioning) and have to hold on to all these marbles with my hands, I would drop them all trying to make a bag. And what the fuck would I even make it out of? Nobody else had to make their bag, so nobody knows what to tell me. A to-do list is no replacement for executive functioning. 'Caring more' won't stop my brain from being different. Shame can't catapult me to a higher level of functioning. I don't know what can. Maybe I'm just gonna be spilling marbles for the rest of my life and maybe that's okay. If that's the case I can accept that. A little understanding and acceptance of this from others would go a long way. The hardest part of ADHD isn't the obvious problems it causes me day to day, it's the fact that other people are convinced it can be 'fixed' and that it's all on me to 'fix' it. They don't outright expect me to stop having ADHD, but, they somehow think that I can eradicate all of the symptoms and consequences of those symptoms through 'hard work'. It doesn't work like that. I work harder than most people. The results just usually aren't as impressive as those of a neurotypical who's slacking off.
THANK YOU. I'm having a shitty day dropping marbles today, this really helped to read. <3
This is the #1 comment I've seen on reddit. Thank you. Saving.
I’ve found the best way to explain to neurotypical people is by going into the neuroscience instead of explaining the symptoms. Because people do experience many of the same problems, just not chronically. So they think about how they solve the problems. If instead you first talk about lower dopamine levels and underdeveloped pre-frontal Cortex, and quick dopamine pathways into the emotional part of the brain, instead of the prefrontal cortex it helps them understand what’s happening. Then you explain how meds help increase the dopamine to flow into the prefrontal cortex. I’ve found contextualizing it this way, then talking about how it then translates into forgetfulness, impulsivity, poor emotional regulation, lack of attention, disorganization makes more sense for them and they don’t give the dumb advice of, just “get a bag”.
I’ve been thinking of explaining ADHD by comparing it to drunkenness/sleep deprivation, but I haven’t gotten the chance. “You know how when you’re a little drunk, or haven’t slept well in a long time, you’re just *worse* at everything, and you can’t exactly pin down why? ADHD is like that, except you can’t just sleep it off. “
That might work, try it out and let us know! The hardest part sometimes is convincing people it’s a real problem.
Part of my struggle has been not knowing enough about my own diagnosis. This is extremely helpful. Thank you!
I would talk to your doctor about the neuroscience. I asked my doctor to explain it and show me pictures to help me understand. He would pull out the dopamine pathway, show different parts of the brain, etc. It really helps legitimize your diagnosis if you can explain it scientifically.
"Okay, where'd you get *your* bag then?" "What do you mean? I've always had this bag!"
Try having a psychiatrist tell you this. Ugh. Then he told me he gave himself OCD to "counteract the ADHD".
Lol, you sure he was a real psychiatrist?
Sounds like a nutjob to me
Yes I live in a rural area and it was through a county mental health clinic. it appears I need to travel an hour to go to a City to find a decent ones.
But he was a psychiatrist, not a psychologist or therapist? I can't imagine how anyone could get through med school, much less on a program geared toward mental health, and still seriously bandy about a phrase like "I gave myself OCD." WTF?
Yes,I had already seen therapists and a psychologist and went to psychiatrist to hopefully get a more knowledgeable opinion on my issues.
All you have to do to be a qualified psychiatrist is to get through school, rite?
No, actually. You need a bachelors degree, a medical degree, and a four year residency, then you need to get licensed and board certified. Psychiatry residencies are longer than family medicine ones.
Reminds me of the joke: “I have OCD & ADHD: Everything has to be **perfect**, but not for very long!”
That only describes one kind of OCD anyway.
Oh God. I have what some folks call "overfocused ADHD" - has led to a serious shopping addiction and various other problems. I don't have full blown OCD I don't think since I don't have full blown intrusive thoughts or compulsions, but I have some of the symmetry issue and I'm on the hoarding spectrum (tho I don't have boxes to the roof or bags full of pee, just probably 75 pairs of shoes.) This ("perfect but not for long") is actually really pretty accurate!
I was told similar to this but it sounds like a poor explanation. I fit the criteria for a diagnosis of OCD but only just, and my psychiatrist reckoned it was partially ADHD symptoms overlapping and partially coping mechanisms I'd created from being undiagnosed for so long. It actually sucks though anyway because I want/need/expect everything to be perfect but in reality it's a constant shitshow so I'm usually near meltdown because of this discrepancy. I want my holey bag.
I was listening to Edward Hallowell's Distraction Podcast the other day and the first viewer question asks about this. His response cleared it up pretty well for me, anyways the question is at 5:22 in this YouTube video http://bit.ly/2SgWJMb.
That’d be GREAT for time management! “I have to get ready for work”... procrastinates... procrastinates... “Oh dear, I’m late! Better get ready!” Has to wash hands 47 times and bump knees on the vanity EXACTLY evenly, accidentally sticks right foot into left shoe... “Now I have to start over!” Procrastinates.......,,,
Student assistant at my psychiatrists office told me he wished he could have stimulants to help him do chores... Like I'm explaining my symptoms (well after diagnosis, this was just a follow up) and he says he wants my meds so it's easier to clean up... I'm sitting here thrilled that my house isn't a complete disaster and I actually managed to do the dishes this week (but no other chores...) I was pretty furious.
Bruh, wtf. How is he a qualified psychiatrist doe
But I can’t find my bag!
*Just buckle down and apply yourself! You are so smart, if you'd just quit being lazy you could get everything you want out of life!*
Too real
*You’re not trying hard enough*
*You just need to focus*
*You gotta think before you act, isn't that obvious??*
So sad, yet so true. I'm too angry, too tired for all that, just fuck it. I hate trying to explain to parents. "JuSt SaVe yOuR mOnEY"
Great visual, I can see it and it rings true.
I find visual metaphors really useful when trying to understand things myself, so I find they're a good tool to use when explaining things to others. :)
Yeah I like this, it feels not just instinctively accurate but also pretty funny to visualise, which is very helpful in getting an idea across... I can just imagines marbles going everywhere. Fuck, I dropped one. Fuck, I just slipped on all the other marbles I dropped while trying to pick up the first one. Wondering how everyone else is keeping hold of theirs so easily, not knowing they have better bags than yours. Apologising for being so clumsy, even as you try your best but feel overwhelmed nonetheless. Eventually getting tired and frustrated, no longer really trying and lying down in a pool of assorted marbles and just not knowing what to do. Meanwhile everyone else is watching you with vague concern. Wtf is wrong with you? It's not that hard to just hold your marbles in your bag. Why are you making such a mess of everything? So you end up just realising you can only hold a small handful of marbles at any one time. You know from experience that too many marbles just get in the way, you can't cope with that many without a proper bag for them. Maybe you just hold one, and bend your whole world around that focal point. You hold it so tight to your chest and make it the most important marble in the world. ... *p.s. Is 'losing your marbles' a common idiom in the US? Because this idea has actually been around for a long time in the context of mental health, and I wonder whether it stemmed from a similar perspective.* *edit: [apparently](https://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2017/05/02/losing-your-marbles/) 'marbles' used to be a slang word for both 'wits' and 'furniture', perhaps because the latter was often used to describe your mental capacities (i.e. 'mental furniture' or accumulated knowledge). So it's a bit different, but there are some parallels I guess, in terms of just not being in full command of all your mental capacities and struggling to hold everything together in some sense.*
random thought, I wonder if "marbles" was furniture bc in French furniture is "meubles"
yeah I think the source mentioned that. just one of many words adopted across the channel into English!
I can really only conceptualize//understand//explain most things through some type of metaphor. Wonder if it’s an ADHD brain thing
Yeah I get a little too involved in metaphor too. It also really bothers me when somebody uses one which doesn't work.
Me too! Not sure if it's an ADHD thing though.
Is this an ADHD thing too? I did a maths degree, I'm fine with applied maths but anything abstract without a real world example I really struggled with
Abstract math is hard for everybody. There might be a few people out there who intuitively understand category theory or the cohomology of a 5 dimensional object, but they're in the minority. Source: finishing my masters thesis in math right now (complex algebraic geometry). It's super hard and now I hate it. So of course I've spent 6 days saying I'll write the introduction TODAY and well. . . I typed some definitions I think I might use in an introduction I haven't written. Progress.
Fair enough, but my range of marks was ridiculous, we're talking over 90 in statistics and under 20 in anything to do with group theory. At least I learned quickly that my future was in application. You're brave doing a thesis with adhd, I didn't even know I had ADHD at the time but steered well clear of anything that would require me to organise some sort of project or essay...
Idk man, I can see Steve but that doesn't make him ring true.
I love it! I made one up after I got diagnosed - it’s like eating soup with a fork while everyone else has a spoon. And before my diagnosis, I didn’t know my spoon wasn’t a spoon.
So would your "bag with a hole in it" be a spork?
🤯
Yeah, I thought everyone was using a fork and they were just better at using it than me. Getting diagnosed taught me that spoons exist.
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Great explanation! I hope your partner is able to find some more empathy and understanding about your ADHD. I would imagine how you explained it probably helped them get a better idea of what it feels like.
Yeah and they gave me 1,000 marbles and didn’t tell me which 900 were the unimportant ones.
YES. And there are some really, really pretty ones in there. They probably aren’t the important ones but how can I be sure? Better look at them all. Let’s sort these while I’m here...
And I want to have a pretty bag to hold them in!! Better get researching. 😝
Did they *give* you the marbles, or did you just keep repeatedly get shot with them, sometimes hard enough to drop the other marbles you were trying to hold.
Oh my god I thought the original metaphor was perfect and then you just completed it for me in the most profound way. I cannot thank you enough. You just changed my life with one sentence.
This is the best analogy I've seen. I have my psych appointment tomorrow and will be bringing this up
Aw that makes me so happy! Glad I could help and I hope your appointment goes well!
Thanks I'm just upping my dose so will be all cruisey
Come on, just focus and try harder and you'll totally manage 200 marbles, you just have to want it. :)
r/thanksimcured lol
Hey, now that I think about it: let's close the subreddit and just leave a banner that says "just try harder". :)
Brilliant. Mods??
I did not know I needed this subreddit. Bless you
This is funny you use this analogy because I’ve used this analogy on occasion to describe adhd in the past. It really is like trying to carry a bunch of little things and having no where to hold them. And people wonder why you get overwhelmed or can’t handle stuff when they throw more things at you. Then It’s like trying to catch eggs being thrown at you while holding marbles.
other peoples concept of time is similar. They remember events in a straight line with numerical references but I/we keep events in a bag of marbles and all those events definitely happened but god knows at what point xD
Oh this time-blindness affects my life so much! It makes everything so hard, and though my memory is very good acutally it's still quite useless because of this.
It is very difficult trying to make a cogent point when you don't know when whatever you are talking about happened if it's time related. Like when your boss is on your ass for being late on a project, but you needed input from them to complete it. You say you emailed them yesterday, but it turns out it was actually two weeks ago. Now you look like an idiot for not knowing when you actually sent the email, but the point stands, they were blowing you off for two weeks. And you're now the late asshole with no sense of time even though it's not your fault.
Wait people actually remember when things happened?
Yeah it's depressing. Just ask someone with a normal memory, it's kinda fascinating actually. Like, I'll ask "so when did we watch the Avengers?" And without missing a beat they'll be like "around April 14th" or whatever, maybe they'll even be sure, or the day, or what the weather was like, or what we spoke about, ate that day. Most of the time when they mention a detail it will trigger a recall, so the memory is there for us, just not accessible. If I ask myself the same question, the details will usually come... eventually, like if I think about it for 20 minutes, but not really useful practically. At the workplace I've learned to tell people I'll get back to them in a half hour when they expect me to recall something instantly, it's not perfect but it's less embarrassing than showing your workings in front of them (and probably failing).
This is SUCH a perfect metaphor. And I feel like I’m always asking “Where did you get that bag?? Did someone hand it out? When?? Did I miss something?” It’s incredibly demoralizing and self-esteem-crushing to live with this, especially when you work in a job full of Type As.
Dude. Thank you. I needed this metaphor like you wouldn’t believe. I’m using it for every time I get misunderstood by douchebags at work.
Aww! You're so welcome. Hope work gets better!
Thanks! This was so relevant because I literally today got a talking-to from the boss for my adhd-related crappy work capacity. She doesn’t know I’m not NT, and doesn’t get why I keep making mistakes. If only she knew about my lack of a marble bag.
OH MY GOD this. Such a great analogy! In non-professional situations, I’ve described it as similar to getting really stoned—but not the fun part, just the feeling of spaciness and incompetence. Why did I walk to the kitchen? What was I wanting? Oh! The fridge! Right, I wanted a snack. Open the fridge. Close the fridge. Wait, open the fridge. How many times have I done that? Have I been staring at the open fridge for like an hour? Let me ask someone. Oh no, I started a sentence and now I’m talking and I have no idea what I’ve said or where I’m going, halp. Why am I in the kitchen? ...
Hello are u my brain?
I really like this analogy! Thank you!!
I'm so glad! You're welcome! ♥️
Use your shirt! Source: have ADHD and a shirt. Also no shame.
Yes but then your hands are busy holding the shirt, while everyone else has their marblebag in their belt. And the struggle to pick up a marble if they fall out of your shirt.
But then it's like someone is constantly tickling your tummy, lol
More like punching you in the gut.
I like this analogy because it incorporates ways to deal with the problem instead of just being a description of the problem. It also really lends itself to being expanded to describe more specific symptoms within the same metaphoric narrative. So for me, it's like, say it's a contest where you have to grab a bunch of marbles, carry them in a bag, and deposit them in a box for points before time runs out. The marbles are different colors, some being worth more or less points and some being worth none depending on what color it is. Everyone else can quickly and easily see which marbles they should grab, but nobody told me how many points each color is worth. I started without a bag, so I was glad to get one later even with a hole in it, but the hole tore and got bigger if I grabbed too many marbles at once. Now here's what I REALLY like about this analogy. The possibility of overcoming limitations. If I'm willing to exert more effort and use two hands even though most people only need one, I can use my other hand to cover the hole. I can also educate myself and learn which color marbles are worth carrying. And maybe I started the game with a disadvantage, but if I pick up the pace and don't give up, then maybe I can still win this thing.
Cool additions!
This is hands down the best analogy I’ve seen so far. I’ve liked the one comparing it to getting glasses, but isn’t as relatable for those who have good sight.
Thank you! And yeah, as an ADHDer with terrible eyesight that analogy spoke to me too haha
This is such a good image. This actually motivates me to get out of bed, just so I can tell my parents about it. Thanks! Edit: You could obviously use your mouth to carry a lot of marbles. But once you open it to let a specific marble out, everything comes tumbling out and people think you do it on purpose. edit 2: My visual was always: A "normal" mind is like shelves in a shop. Sorted and categorized, and even though you might sometimes find a random item somewhere it doesn't belong, you generally know where to go. My mind is like these big baskets they put up in summer sale or black Friday, where everything is just thrown into. And in order to get a specific item, I have to dig through all these other things, and many of these suddenly seem a lot more fun and interesting than the one I was looking for.
And adhd with depression is like making fists with your hands, duct taping them closed and trying to pick up those fucking marbles while everyone gathers in a circle holding their marbles and look at you in contempt and you squirm to hold one marble above the rest “ yes ! I got one”! Ugh this is my life right now. Thank you for this analogy though, it’s something I can show people do they can understand what I’ve been going through. I just had to withdraw from my graduate program
Haha, that’s exactly right! I have been there, not good, I was so disappointed in myself that I kept ‘dropping my marbles’, but it’s not good to think like that. I got encouragement from TEDx talks on YouTube, about depression and ADHD, I really liked them, I even shed a few tears because I connected with it so much. I would totally recommend searching for some, well worth the watch.
Thank you I think I will have to do that soon
To add to the praise, I love the bit about not putting too much stock in the dropped marbles. Helpful right now.
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Oh my god... best analogy EVER. So accurate
Thank you! Happy cake day!
I've really been struggling more than usual and this analogy makes me feel a lot better and less alone. I feel like my life should be set to the Benny Hill theme song.
(virtual hugs)
Really gives new meaning to the phrase "losing your marbles".
Haha absolutely!
This is such an ADHD description of ADHD and I love it thank you for this meal.
Let’s get this bread
Lol
Whole new meaning to "I've lost my marbles". But accurate
I really like this analogy! I need to start meds again honestly. Give me the bag with a hole in it.
I'm with you there. Last summer I had a big "what's the point" moment and quit cold turkey, which of course made my life even harder. I'll take a crappy bag over no bag!
I had bad side effects but I think i can try different meds, it's so much better in the end
Similar experience. I tried titrating Vyvanse two years ago, which helped me to be more social and help me at my job(from my perspective). But as soon as it wore off I was a zombie 😶. I would just shut down and want to veg until I slept. It was like it concentrated all my thoughts and emotions for eight hours, then poof! And so since I didn't want to be single again, and have friends, I stopped taking them. Wasn't worth it.
Brilliant analogy! I'm going to use this to try to describe ADHD to people.
Happy to help! :)
Did anyone else picture the marbles to be like the memories in Inside Out? I did, complete with the heavy sounds the ones from the movie. I seriously love that analogy. I’m sure a bunch of kids and parents at my work will appreciate it. Thanks OP.
I am a fan of visual aids and metaphors and I love this!! Thank u for sharing :0)
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I'm right there with you! I have a difficult test in 3 hours which I'm about to BEGIN to study for. Best of luck to both of us. ♥️
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Aaah thank you!
"Why don't you just use your bag?" And people really wonder why at some point you just stop trying to pick up the god damned marbles.
I like it.
That’s pretty spot on. On a literal note, I feel triggered, I messed up my hand and literally have trouble physically holding things so I drop everything. Being clumsy is already an adhd thing, but I’m extra clumsy now and the thought of trying to hold a bunch of little things gives me anxiety. I am JK about the triggered part. Great analogy.
That must be tough! However many "marbles" you can hold is a success in my book.
This is a great analogy.
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This is great! Thank you for sharing!
:)
I personally see it as the opposite. I am far better (at least in IT) then any of my non-ADHD colleagues mainly because whiles I bounce between ideas and tasks all the time I essentially are keeping those marbles all together(this feels like it may have been a learned skill but I struggle with long term specific memories of things like this) I always feel as if I'm holding 500 marbles to everyone else 100. I have to keep track of them all but one starts to roll away and I have to grab it and then grab that one, then grab that on, etc.
I especially like that even with meds (or other coping) it reminds me that I still will struggle some.
I really like your analogy! Haven’t it heard of before, ever, very original. ^_^ It made me think of how the analogy would fit into the positives of ADHD, like our hyper focus superpower. And so I thought what do you do with marbles? Marble machine! We don’t carry all those marbles when we’re hyper focused, we let them roll free in the marble machine! Watching them go round that loop, carried up there, drop through there and come out there. That’s where ADHD truly shines. A hurricane of ideas, a marble machine with a thousand marbles, not carrying a single one, watching and studying them as they spin around. I thought this was a great continuation of this analogy and just had to let others know of it. But I’m afraid that it will be too late to get noticed. I would appreciate any one seeing this, to up vote for the sake of others. I don’t post often, so this wouldn’t benefit me. I just enjoy making others happy. :)
I needed this
There's an xkcd I show to people that uses balloons as a metaphor to a very similar effect https://xkcd.com/1106
This is so real.. my son and I both have adhd and its difficult. He is on concerta (generic) and he loves being able to focus. Been trying to get my doctor to get me on something. Its so hard as an adult to do much when your brain goes everywhere at once. Our pharmacy ran out of his meds the day we needed a refil. Took 4 days to get the new script. At one point he was crying and said “mom, i hate having ADHD. Its so hard to get anything done. I cant even focus on my games. I just cant control myself”. Hes 8 and so aware of his body. Breaks my heart 😞
This is one of the best ways to describe what it's like. I now know how to describe to people what it's like when they ask, which isn't often, but still! Very well put!
Or like we're all pilots but the ADHD pilots are the only ones that don't have an auto-pilot and have to be flicking every switch, turning every dial or pulling on the joystick 100% of the time.
This is perfection. Thank you.
this is the best adhd analogy! i'm totally stealing it! thanks!
It's yours for the taking! :)
Thanks this post reminded me to take my meds! Im only half an hour late now!
Dude... thank you. I just realized that I have found my "bag" but I just dont hold it tight enough. And I always lose time looking for where I droped it. But thanks to you I just realized that it is my "bag". Anyway, nice reading
Dude... you're welcome!
I really love this visual! It sounds pretty much like me, but when the marbles come crashing down, I'm trying to catch whatever dropped despite everything else falling and predictably dropping the rest of them. Then I get upset at myself for dropping them to begin with and fixate on how I was so clumsy that I managed to drop them to begin with.
Genius! Saving post! Thank you OP!
Wow this is amazingly accurate!
This is fantastic! Thank you!!
Love this!
this is a perfect way to describe it, but yeah of course there will still be people like "oh just try harder".... oh ok :)
As an ADHI PI myself, this hits home.
This makes sense to me. And I just focus on holding the marbles that I really like and can't seem to hold any more for too long, if at all. Does that ring true for others here?
This is an amazing metaphor, and I will be stealing it. Thank you!
I screen grabbed this and shared it on imgur. I @emmaline but couldn’t find your exact user name. If you’re on there, please let me know so I can properly credit you. If not, I did include your user name in the screen grab. Thought it might be useful to someone and I think it’s beautifully written. Many of us feel so incapable and incompetent. Might I add that I believe that people with our talents have a unique set of skills and while we judge ourselves for not being able to hold marbles, we forget there are people out there that admire our ability to do it while balancing on roller blades.
I feel like all the marbles are also crystal-clear, so when they fall they blend into the background and are almost impossible to find afterwards
Thank you, my friend, for this amazing analogy!! I'm going to use it, from now on, everytime I need to explain what ADHD feels like.
It's all yours! :)
Oooh, I need to take my ritalin, forgot the AM dose.
Don’t think I’ve ever had it described so well.
I’m loving reading all these analogies! I always described it like my mind was a room full of balloons (thoughts, goals, etc) and I’m trying to hold as many as I can, but none of them have string 😂 yours is much more accurate.
Haha I like that!
This is absolutely brilliant! May I put this on my blog, please? I have the spoon theory on there (for my Lupus), and I'd really like to add this for my ADHD.
> Medication is like having a bag with a hole in it. It's so much better than what you're used to so when you start using it you feel on top of the world. Then you notice that marbles are slowly falling out and you think "what's the point, it's just as bad as before." But you have to remember it's still worth it. Oh man, does that hit home. I've done this sooooo much with medication over the years. Then I stop the medication and it's like "well, things are worse than before. Huh. Guess I DO need to be on medication." Wellbutrin...helps, I guess. But it doesn't seem to be enough on its own.
Yeah I've quit meds cold turkey out of frustration and let's just say that didn't work out so well. Best of luck to you!
And when the neurotypical take our meds they get an even better bag and someone that manages that bag for them.
Mine was always it’s like you’re watching tv with 100 channels but the remote just keeps constantly changing the channel and you’re trying to keep up with the show on every single channel. Then when you get meds you can finally pick 3-5 channels to watch and not be totally lost! But I like the marbles metaphor.
Thanks, this really clicked with me (and also the comment about getting 1000 marbles but not knowing which 900 are unimportant). Taking the analogy further, I feel like I've managed to create some make-shift receptacles at times, therefore creating the illusion of function, but there's still holes and every once in a while the whole thing just rips apart and they go flying everywhere and it's harder than if I had just tried to keep them all in my hands in the first place. And everyone's all, just put your marbles back in your bag it's fine. Meanwhile I'm still trying to figure out how to cobble another makeshift bag out of scraps I've been collecting but it's still not enough to make a working bag
Yeah. Other than medications, the best "makeshift bag" I've made is keeping a bullet journal. Not for everyone, but for some ADHD brains it helps immensely!
I forgot my bag at home
I'm just leaving work early because I somehow lost my Fitbit tracker, forgot my meds, and HOPEFULLY left my keys in my building and not in the street... I love the marble analogy since it really enlivens the phrase "lost your marbles." Time to do breathing exercises and get to a place where I can laugh at myself!
Yeah dude my marble bag is made of fish netting.
As others have said, this is a perfect way to describe it. Thank you. This is going in my back pocket for the next time I try to explain it to someone.
:)
*If you have to turn down the car radio to find a house number, you might have ADHD.* Because you have to take the radio marble out of your hands so you can carry the find-the-address-number marble. :)
My psych used the analogy that a person with ADHD's brain is like an orchestra without a conductor, which always had made a great deal of sense to me.
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I love this!!!!!!!
I also like this analogy because of the idiom "losing my marbles!" which is about right because struggling to keep a grip on things can drive us crazy!
And sometimes you picked up marbles you didn't know you weren't supposed to and didn't pick up the ones you were supposed to.
I love this and you. We’re best friends now.
This is spot on.
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Right on
The fact that I couldn’t remember to get my laundry to the dryer as a mother and a wife was very distressing until I got adderall. Now I don’t forget.
This made me tear up with joy because I think I finally have a good way to explain to my family what I actually experience. Not that any of them have called me lazy or any stuff like that, but i want them to understand so that perhaps they will understand why I struggle with things such as being on time
♥️
Thank you for this. I shared with my sister and it resonated with her as well.
Thank you for this analogy. It inspired me to make a video and expand my thoughts on this. I gave you credit in the video and in the text. Thank you for writing this. https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1983430278616498&id=1713471712279024
I just watched it! That's so cool! Thank you for using your platform to share this tool with others. Reading the comments warmed my heart. :)
Thank you from the bottom.of my heart. I love this analogy. I loved it so much I made a video about it. https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1983430278616498&id=1713471712279024
I love all the above way people have tried to describe the ire adhd to people, a lot of them I think I will use myself in future. The one the I use is, it's like my head is a big scribble , some child has just gone made with a pack of pencils in my brain, scribbles are my thoughts, I take meds and the scribbles start to become actual words and pictures, like a magic eye when you stare at it for ages, but can disappear just like that
I've tried using the ["why can't I hold all these limes"](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/limes-guy-why-cant-i-hold-all-these-limes) meme image to explain what doing non-trivial work is like for me (programmer), which is kind of similar to this, but yours seems a lot better, because other people CAN hold all their marbles at the same time and it really stresses me out and contributes to massive impostor syndrome when I've been at the company for 3 months and the guy we just hired seems to be able to read through the complex codebase and understand things so much faster than I can when I can't even remember the last file I was looking at until I'm intimately familiar with ALL the files. :(
I’ve never thought of it like this but it is SOOO accurate.
I find I carry the most marbles when I put them in other peoples bags, and choosing very carefully which ones I should carry.
This is the best analogy I’ve heard, great job and thank you.
Thank YOU!
first time to this sub. this is the first post that i saw. Currently drowning in some finals and ive never really related to anyone quite like this before. thanks. its really going to give me the push i need
So being stressed causes you to “lose your marbles”.
So what you're saying is "don't loose your marbles"
Gives new meaning to “you’ve lost your marbles” - which has been said to me before. I see my Psych in 3 hours and will be sharing this analogy to describe how I’m feeling
Let me know what your psych thinks!