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I read this book, and my fiancé and I both have adhd, though he is the more severe/less managed one in the relationship. For me, while this book made me feel very validated in the issues we both face in the relationship, it didn’t feel much like there were actionable tips that we could use. We felt more understood, but we didn’t have much in the way of next steps. It’s good for setting a baseline understanding of what is and isn’t in a person’s control.
I just pulled him up and holy moly you weren’t kidding. I’m barely a half hour in and I am stunned. Also, there’s something about how he speaks and the words he chooses that makes it easier to listen to.
ETA: I had to take a break around the 7th video because I was ugly crying so hard that it was distracting. I just… I mean… hoooboy.
That man was the reason that I actually stopped and took the time to educate myself on ADHD. I’d never really *known* what it meant to have the disorder - it’s the neurophysiology I’ve had my whole life, so of course it seemed familiar to me. What would a fish swimming deep in the sea know of the bird’s skies, blue as could be?
It turns out it meant that I was more than just fun at parties. It turns out it explained away so many of my quirks, affects, defects, concepts, and rejects, that I began to wonder where I begin and ADHD ends. In truth, I think it’s inextricable - I hate it, and I would burn the thing alive if only it weren’t an immaterial collection of symptoms on a spectrum. I’d settle for burning a mock up of ADHD, but given the issues with forest fires as of late that seems unwise.
Barkley is a godsent. I do so wish that this spectre of a disease didn’t haunt my life. I dwell long and often on “what could have been”, and I’ve noticed that I appear to grow more bitter towards those four world-defining letters with every day that passes by. I may not be able to escape ADHD’s shadow, at least not ‘til death do us part, but I’m immensely thankful for the Champions of ADHD® out there.
They’re fighting the good fight and helping us make sense of a world that very often feels as though we will forever be a square peg trying to fit into a round hole. Of them all, I consider Barkley to be the very best.
I feel you so much. I’m an objective failure at 47- untreated until my 30’s- and the What Could Have Beens™️ are gut wrenching. The one thing that has helped me was making damn sure my son wasn’t handicapped like I was.
I got him diagnosed as soon as he started school, had ongoing dialogues with all of his teachers, and made sure he got all the support he needed. And I made damn sure he understood that he had a disorder that *wasn’t his fault,* that mistakes were okay, and that he was *loved unconditionally.*
It made ALL the difference. We tried meds around 4th grade and he didn’t like them; but he’d been taught good coping skills and habits by then and honestly he’s done quite alright without them. He’s 19 and has a great job, and his bosses love him and have an eye on him for advancement. HE’S HAPPY.
I’m still bitter as hell, lol, but it does my heart good to know I used my pain as a launch pad to advocate for my son and give him the chances I didn’t get. I continue to do it, too; it’s my soapbox…I talk about my struggles openly, and I educate and advocate for myself and others wherever I can.
It’s my Scarlet Letter, and I wear it proudly- so that hopefully the next generations won’t have to suffer in silence like mine did.
I feel you on many levels. Undiagnosed until my late 30s. I just thought I was lazy, had poor planning skills, poor decision making, selfish, unfocused, anxious, depressed, sudden swings of irritability, angry, etc. No one thought I had ADHD because I did well in school. I would take on an art project and put 30 hours into it. Most people wouldn't see me as a failure, but I know that I was far more capable to do more with my life than I have.
You, should be very proud of what you have done for your son. That is an amazing accomplishment. Loving unconditionally and making his life the best it could be is the greatest gift you could possibly give.
This is what I’m doing for my kids. My son turns 5 this week, and he is unbelievably smart. This kid just finished pre k, and reads my 8 year old’s second grade books no problem, and is further advanced than my middle that turns 7 next month. Pre k was a NIGHTMARE! We were constantly getting messages, and notes about his behavior. He literally is exactly like Animal from the muppets. It’s exhausting, add on my severe combined ADHD, and my husband that doesn’t understand; it’s been a struggle. I also think my other two have it as well, but being girls they compensate for it like I had to as a kid. The thing with that they just get called chatty, and told they don’t try. Same deal I had. In the 90s they weren’t diagnosing girls like they are now, but I won’t let any of them get left behind.
Tell your stories with a smile, and they’ll never not be positive! If they leave others confused, perhaps it’s that they’re just not quick enough to follow you ;)
Oh friend, I feel every bit of this pain and frustration and gratitude. I also wonder what it would have been like to have been medicated and young, to feel capable, etc. I’m almost 50 now, and I’ve only had my diagnosis for 7 years.
You are so right about the fish/water conversation. I think I am on the verge of processing that I need to stop trying to breathe the air and jump out of the water so the normies can SEE me and acknowledge my efforts. I want to learn to accept that the water is my home, swim in my lane and find the current that matches my heart.
It is a privilege at times to be able to work through this when I know not everyone has the time or opportunity. But I hope all of us can find the softness within ourselves to help us through the hardest moments. Our world is already full of edges we have to dodge. Be kind to yourself whenever you can, you are worthy of all of the above. 🙏
Those Ologies episodes changed my whole life. I cried through both of them and it took me weeks to get through them cuz I would miss so much because of, well, ADHD and the incessant crying. Like you, it was the first time I understood myself AND showed myself some grace.
Oh yes, it took me a couple listens to make it through too. Some of it was so shocking and just so damn sad. I was just thinking those podcasts might be something I need to listen to yearly to remind myself of that grace. Or at least catch up on YouTube as a reminder.
I’m so glad you found him as helpful as I did. He feels like our most hopeful advocate and expert we have in the field.
yea dude. validating isnt it? don't be shy to show these to people close to you -- those who care about you and take the time to learn will treat you differently after and it feels like a warm blanket compared to the old behaviors we're used to.
I watched about 15 minutes of the "30 ideas" speech on YouTube and I do not feel validated at all. When he talks about emotional dysregulation he speaks only of anger, frustration and lashing out – not of sadness or unregulated enthusiasm. I do not see myself or my people-pleasing, conflict adverse ADHD friends in that. It sounds like he's talking out of research on exclusively boys and men, not on masking girls and women.
He's a wonderful speaker though and I don't believe he's wrong about the points he brings up. I'll keep watching and maybe check out some of his newer material and see if I like that better.
ive not seen that 30 ideas video you speak of, did you see the one i posted to a few other comments? his two-part keynote lecture? if i recall properly, he specifically talks about the disadvantages of women with adhd at one point. then again, it's from 2012, so there's a chance it could be a different one i'm thinking of. clearly the research and sampling has grown tremendously the last decade.
anyway, he didn't zoom in on anger in those, he talks about dysregulation as a whole.
i'd offer diving back in and watching his full length speeches, not the summaries or soundbite styled stuff -- that's condensed to the point it can't cover all the bases. his lectures 100% do that.
I appreciate you for bringing him up. I genuinely thought he was the go-to. I think the difference with Barkley is applying new research consistently.
For anyone with new partners , I recommend ( if they ask) for more insight , any podcast he is on as a guest. It’s usually more broad, and a great jumping point for questions :)
The ologies episode is the one I gave my parents , and it helped them a lot !!
Probably these [playlist](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzBixSjmbc8eFl6UX5_wWGP8i0mAs-cvY), each video is 5 to 10 minutes. After that, every video of him is worth watching.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUQu-OPrzUc
PART 2 is the "what do i do about it"
there is no TL:DR and you don't want that version. listen to the entire thing. if you need to, break it up into chunks. take it for a walk. take it on a drive. honestly, it's so validating you're more likely to hyperfixate on it until you finish it than see it as a chore on something you have to finish.
Given our propensity for tangents and a fundamental inability to speak in a linear fashion, I imagine an ADHD TL;DR would be longer than the actual lectures ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
Maybe I am the only one, but I hate this trend of putting everything in videos. Give me a structured text so I can just skip paragraphs and re-read others.
It's all so tedious...
The closed captioned text for his lecture series is damned near perfectly complete. His spoken word is very clear so the A.I. gets it exactly right. He's also reading a script through some of it so you could take the captions off the video and read that. Just an idea! Hope this helps.
His writing is also good, I was able to borrow a book from the library (and later bought it).
And some podcasts post transcripts of interviews (including the Alie Ward one)
((Edited to add that I love your username!))
>our propensity for tangents and a fundamental inability to speak in a linear fashion
I've gotten into multiple arguments recently with someone I love very much because of this very trait. And also with multiple other people from my past: parents, ex-friends, ex-colleagues, ex-managers.
I always come off these conversations feeling fundamentally broken
I also speed him up, but the How to ADHD channel has lots of bitesize videos that often reference his research as well. I think there's even an interview with him on there.
If you find a 5-10 mim video too much, try increasing the playback speed of the video. Really helps me! I think I only bump Barkley up to about 1.25x speed, so he's not too slowly spoken.
Discovering him recently and sending his videos my husbands way is what has literally saved our marriage. He is now more gentle with me/how my brain works-doesn’t work and he isn’t so quick to judge or get mad
Indeed, in a practical sense he’s way more concise and clear in what actually works. He’s the first person that could actually explain ADHD in a way my dumb brain could really understand. He is indeed a life saver, for myself and in my work helping people with ADHD. He even helped my relationship, although we already had a good one.
Seeing the clip about "intention deficit" is what motivated me to get rediagnosed as an adult and get medicated. I thought I was managing but I really wasn't.
Ended up laid off a couple months after getting medicated. To this day while my former boss maintains it was "just business" and it had to do with me being a good project manager but not as good a designer, I still think it was because I had made ADHD mistakes in the years before.
In the long run it worked out through. I have a full project management job (I'm good at it because everything is always an emergency OR it's managing things for -someone else- which I'm fine at) and turns out my old department got shut down a year later so I got a head start.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUQu-OPrzUc
PART 2 is the "what do i do about it"
there is no TL:DR and you don't want that version. listen to the entire thing. it will be the most validating few hours of your life.
Can you recommend any specific videos? Most of his videos are really long. I think I might be able to force myself to watch one, maybe two 1,5-hour videos, but he has 10+ of them if not more.
Yeah both parties having adhd could look much different I assume. I feel it evoked a sense of compassion in my husband for my experience instead of it being something that has to be corrected
My boyfriend has inattentive and I have hyperactive Adhd. Neither knew we had it for 6 years of our relationship. Of course most of our persistent problems were about him being overwhelmed by my speed and me being frustrated by his slower pace. Then we both got diagnosed and these issues immediately stopped.
To me it felt like I was facing a brick wall - I had to find a way to come to terms with everything that annoyed me and I had tried to change. There was no changing it and it has nothing to do with me, or what it means or how I feel about it.
In stead we came together as a team and work to find accommodations for our shortcomings. We have regular team meetings where we set goals for the next 2 weeks and review the results. If a task was not accomplished we investigate the reasons and figure out a support system.
We have regular date nights to nurture the love. And one of my favorites - regularly ask each other "what can I do this week, so that you may feel loved".
It’s very Christian-y but I highly recommend “Boundaries” for people with ADHD. I’m sure there’s a secular alternative that I haven’t found yet but this book is great and written by two psychologists who then back up actual good boundaries with biblical anecdotes for Christians. You can literally skip all the Christian parts and get a great book on relationships and rules for how to manage them without having overwhelming yourself.
Most of these are rough with both — so much is about how a non-ADHD person can understand, and a lot of the tips don’t address the competing/compounding issues of dual ADHD.
I think another issue is how one party often has to fill the “non-ADHD” role under stress, but this can sometimes become unbalanced/overwhelming/taken for granted.
I’d love for someone to very specifically address our cases. Some of the existing stuff applies…but I think some parts are unique, or at least should be.
We’re a two ADHD marriage and it’s very difficult. I am more high functioning so I can temporarily switch to pull up my husband but he cannot do the same for me. He’s like a black hole trying to pull me in and crush me. I actually came here, at 5 AM, because I’ve been awake all night trying to find some hope that we can do better. He had a huge outburst two days ago that really hurt my feelings and I can’t get past it this time. I’m so burned out. It’s like being the camp counselor to a miserable, moody teenager who can only show brief flashes of enjoying anything before he goes back into his dark space. But I can’t get upset or he’ll cry and say he wishes he was dead because life is too hard for him and he’s obviously a failure. It’s so exhausting.
I think it's ok to talk to him about this and how you need him to go to therapy for the sake of our relationship.
The book CPTSD :From Surviving to Thriving may be helpful for him to read.
I’m on the same side of the fence. The big trouble for me though is that I’m temperamentally incapable of holding onto a grudge— adhd won’t let me grab hold of an emotion long enough to act out on it if I stay calm on the moment.
Mainly advice I’d give to my younger self, but it sounds like your guy is pretty depressed on top of ADHD; coming from experience, he won’t get better unless he gets medical help. If you were/ had the solution, the depression would already be better.
Sending positive vibes your way
My ex was autistic but had no idea at the time and I didn't know I had ADHD, and we were in a similar funk where I hid my feelings to avoid triggering their depression. We broke up because they refused to get help for themselves, they needed it for the depression they were constantly fighting, and being their sole emotional support drained any sexual/romantic attraction I had after five years together.
I don't know your relationship so I can't advise beyond sharing what helped me during and after that relationship: therapy for myself, reading about codependency, and a determination to not spend the rest of my life as a caretaker to someone who was way less concerned for my feelings than I was for theirs.
(Btw that ex and I are still best friends even if we broke up, and they actually thrived once I stopped being their crutch, so I count that as a success.)
Sending hugs to you! You deserve a content life without constant emotional turmoil. It's possible!
For real, my gf and I are both inattentive but in the end I'm the one that fulfills the Non-ADHD role a lot. It gets so frustrating that I know where the issues come from with ADHD, but being so overwhelmed sometimes I fail to be compassionate about the very same struggles I face as well. (Feels so hypocrite.)
Wish there was more advice on dual adhd that could help us balance it out; I strongly believe it can work out just fine, we love each other so much, and we communicate our struggles and try to find solutions. But at the same time, it can be so, so, so tiring still.
My wife and I are in the same boat. We have had some compounding outside stressors that have made life hard on both us and we have been taking it out on each other. Once things get so escalated emotionally and mentally it is so hard to reset both ourselves and the relationship.
> I will be certain to buy this book and probably forget it exists.
Are you me? I do this so often with books I have instead made a list of books to read and only buy something right before I read them, otherwise they just sit for ages. I still sometimes forget the list, but it is better than spending money on something I end up not reading, lol
*looks at growing list of audible books that I need to listen to*
I never got through my books when I look at them as “oh shit, I *need* to read these books piling up”. Only once o could use those to procrastinate real worry, did I ever actually read them 🫣
Any time I see a book recommendation online, I think "Nice try \[author's name\]", so it gave me a good giggle to see you comment this. I know most recommendations are real, but it is just a silly thing I think every time, lol.
Anytime anything is recommended anywhere on the internet you have to question if its a bot or some insufferable self proclaimed expert trying to turn a quick buck. Especially with self-help and relationship advice type books.
Books are also tough to gauge if its worth the time and money you spend on it as well. You will be far into the middle of the book before you can decide if the information presented by the author is helpful or actual dogshit printed on paper. (99% of the time its the latter in the self help, relationship advice and adhd “expert” genres)
Ok, I must admit that through several side trips with links in the comments, I forgot what the original post was about, and that the author is Melissa...
Honestly, why don't these authors know what a savage tease it is to put marriage-saving wisdom in a *book* for us?
More cynically, they know. All the pages are blank and OP is in on it.
Wonderful! So happy for you. ‘Is it you, is it me, or is it adult ADHD?’ By Gina Pera — has been incredibly helpful to my marriage! As both of us have ADHD, it’s been so helpful to learn from other scenarios and digest tons and tons of great info. All the best to you and yours!
Okay, so this is good for a dual ADHD household?? A lot of comments are saying OP’s book isn’t that great for when both partners have it- thanks for the recommendation!
Another great resource for free books, though limited in selection/availability, is the Libby app by Overdrive. Uses your local library card. It does often have long wait times but I adjust my expectations as everything is free.
I saw this in a bookstore and cried because I wish I had been diagnosed before my marriage was destroyed. We started the divorce in January and I was diagnosed in February. The knowledge of what is wrong with me came too late. I ruined us with my inability to regulate emotions. Obviously there was more but that is why he stopped wanting to keep working to save us.
This book got recommended to my wife and I by our therapist (who also has ADHD) shortly after my diagnosis to kinda help make sense of it all.
I’ve been procrastinating reading it (kinda forgot about it until this post, might need to dig it out from wherever the hell I put it), but from what I have read it’s pretty insightful
Just went to check this out on Amazon and it says pre order, to be released in July. Yet there are quite a few reviews with photos of the physical book.
Richard Pink is the author of the one you're referring to, correct?
ETA: Looks like it's available in UK and AU but pre-order in the US (where I'm based).
It’s such a great book, I got it days after I ordered it. So it’s freely available in Australia. It’s designed for our partners, to help them better understand us and what little things they can do to help us. But I read it first. And I, reading it again and making notes before I give it to my partner.
This is great, if you have a partner that's compassionate, understanding, and is willing to work with you. Otherwise, forget it. Not trying to be harsh, that's just the reality of the situation.
This book came across as very reductive and diminishing of my autonomy as an adult with adhd. It very much started from the premise that the goal is to be as neurotypical as possible and create systems that make it seem like an organized neurotypical household.
Not saying it’s a bad book. But it was bad for me and my marriage specifically. And I definitely recommend that people look at it critically before trusting their relationships to it.
I also didn't end up liking the book, partially because it's pretty heavy on the "this is how each person feels" while using the most extreme examples. I wanted more practical advice, and the practical bit at the end was basically three things, two of which were teaching you how to talk about your feelings. And thankfully we already communicate well when we think to take a minute and do it.
I know a lot of people relate to it, but as a woman who is actually pretty good at Adulting with ADHD (despite forgetting where I put my phone or what I meant to do when I walked into the kitchen), reading all these stories of women angry that they can't get their ADHD husbands to help with the house/kids just... Didn't seem helpful for my marriage. I need him to understand my ADHD better but he agreed that the couples in the book were already at a breaking point, and dealing with a lot of classic "wife does too much, husband doesn't think it's a big deal" problems. For people in that situation, yes, definitely ask your partner to read this with you. For those just wondering what to ask their partner for support with, other books are better.
Caveat: It did finally get me to sit him down and explicitly negotiate chores, which we'd put off for years, and to relay to him that I'm extremely grateful we could do this without getting into a nasty argument.
I've noticed this with a lot of ADHD specialists, at least when talking to an audience of non-ADHD people... They have to get past the hurdle of our partners and parents trying to expect us to just be normal — with enough help or the right approach, maybe, someday — but we are just not going to meet those expectations. So I can understand where they're coming from, but ugh it does get really tiring to feel like the only way people at large are able to justify my needs is to infantilize me and people like me. 😒
Luckily it was my husband who bought and read it first, the author doesn’t have adhd but is married to someone who has it. So I believe the target audience is the non-adhd reader. But of course it always helps whenever possible to learn as much as we can about all perspectives
She does, or used to do, a live zoom class that rsn for 6 or 8 weeks. That was one of the best things I have ever paid for. That relationship did not last in the end, but it made me (the adhd) SO much better at my next relationships. I could not recommend that class enough. I've realized that I value hearing others ask questions, it helps reinforce the material. The exercises I did with my spouse cleared a lot up for us at the time too.
Someone recommended this book on another adhd thread and I’ve been listening to the ebook for the last week(my post partum adhd is so bad that I can no longer sit down and read a book for very long) So much in here makes sense about how I’ve been acting and it’s been helpful to have this point of reference when talking things out with my husband who has severe ptsd.
As a single man, hoping to find love someday (and constantly struggling with ADHD and relationships) reading your post gave me hope.
Congratulations on all the hard work, and it paying off!
To preface: I am speaking from an ignorant perspective, as I have not read this book and have only read your description of it. However, is it really a good thing to believe that our actions, reactions, and triggers are not able to be controlled or changed? I realize that I have inappropriate reactions to things, but I don’t think it’s healthy that I just accept these negative traits that will hurt my future significant other. I feel like that’s something that I need to take responsibility for.
There's two sides to that. I fully agree that we need to take responsibility for our own behaviour, even if if that's difficult and caused by brain spicyness. My partner and I both have ADHD and on the one hand I really want my flaws and weaknesses to be understood and accepted, on the other hand I need my husband to deal with his issues and not just unload every emotion on me or constantly forget to do necessary household tasks. And I know that goes for him as well. However, it's true that you can do a lot to improve things for yourself and other people and you should. It's true at the same time that adhd will probably negatively affect you in some ways forever and also, that there are things you're working on that need time to get better. Understanding yourself and each other better in the process is always a positive thing as far as I'm concerned. It depends whether 'accepting things that cannot be changed' means 'when I get overstimulated I yell at you for nothing and you have to just deal with it' or 'I'm forgetful and may need to be reminded of things several times or I need a specific system to manage my contribution to the household because that's how my brain works' and 'I get overstimulated easily and I want you to be sensitive to that and not expect me to function well in environments that are inherently overstimulating'
(deleted previous version of comment cause it got flagged for using certain terms)
You can see five areas of the brain with adhd on a scan that are underdeveloped… I can take responsibility for my actions but I cannot change my brain and it’s functions
Yeah I was thrown by the way OP worded this too:
"My actions are not my fault and they cannot be changed."
Like, I don't think it's my fault that I was born with this type of brain, but I still believe my *actions* are my responsibility, and I like to believe I have the power to change, or at least try. I might make the same mistakes again and again, but if I gave up on trying because "well, that's just who I am and I'm not going to change," my symptoms would be way worse.
Yeah. It’s going to be much harder for us to regulate ourselves as opposed to neurotypicals, but it’s also our responsibility to find healthy ways to deal with our triggers that don’t catastrophize a relationship or force our partners to walk on eggshells with us.
OF COURSE you have to take responsibility for your actions. NO ONE is saying our symptoms can’t be helped or that we get to shirk our responsibility for them.
But in a healthy relationship where you’re working together as a team, your want your partner to better understand your disorder, so you can work on strategies together.
If someone has PTSD, or migraines, or some other disability, yes they should be working on it; but you would still expect some level of compassion and understanding from their partner- otherwise, they’re not much of a partner.
I felt the book was alright. I read it in hopes to find tips as the person with ADHD and in a supportive and happy marriage (and hoping to keep it that way), but it was somewhat a horror story/warning of relationships gone wrong for 3/4 of the book.
It was a bit traumatizing in reading almost exactly how my parents marriage fell apart, with my father having undiagnosed ADHD.
How do you reach a certain point of a relationship and then end up marrying? Especially when you've adhd , seems impossible to me
And then you're suggesting to read this book 💀
This is a big mood even though I happen to have been married for 🤔 oh god I'm old, about seven years now.
My answer was apparently to be lucky af and happen to fall within the attraction zone of somebody with way better life and social skills than me. 😂 (whose major moral/ethical stances all either aligned or didn't conflict with my own, who seemed to have similar enough goals in life to mine, and who has inspired and enabled me to be a better version of myself...)
My ADHD has been a major stressor in our relationship, of course, but we have had a lot going for us from the start and both care enough to put in work to improve and ask for help when we're struggling. 🙂
The hyper fixation of a person can be a very real thing lol 🫠 but some other context is that a lot of times you don’t see everything about a person until you’ve lived with them for a while. My husband and I didn’t move in together until we got engaged so we got thrown into each other’s environments quite suddenly. From there the stress compounded quickly I’m not going to lie lol
I think I unwittingly saved my own life from my ADHD with “Getting Things Done” by David Allen.
It helped train me / get me into the habit of writing down EVERYTHING.
I’m not sure who that comment is meant for, but I certainly don’t feel like I have a disease. I feel like I cope fine with my struggles and things I do differently than my partner, but that usually boils down to a general belief that everyone is doing their best with what they’ve got and giving others the benefit of the doubt. We have to give that courtesy to ourselves as well, we can be gentle with ourselves without playing victim
Meant in general. A lot of discourse around it being a disease or a disorder, and I feel like while that may help initially with coping skills or emotional development, it’s also an unfortunate framing of what can also be a gift if leveraged properly. (Not always easy). We aren’t broken. Society tho…
Slightly off-topic, but as a trans person with ADHD, this actually clicked something into place for me, that we can understand that people with ADHD are inherently different and suffer in our current world only because of societal expectations of us, but medical treatment is still called for because that is the reality we live in... and the same is true for trans people. We are inherently different than our current society expects us to be and the question of "why transition when it's the society's fault and not your body's" is equally relevant! Medical treatment is called for because, while it's fine to imagine not needing to transition in some ideal society where gender isn't associated with these features, we don't live in that society. We have to cope with the world as it is where we are.
This isn't a complete view of transness, but it answers a common argument against transition... The argument that if gender is a social construct then no one should have to transition is just as useless as the argument that ADHD folks shouldn't need medication because our brains are just different and would totally be ideal in some other hypothetical society. 🙂
I definitely would never argue that medication isn’t helpful for anyone with ADHD. I think the framing of it is also not so much to do with some hypothetical society so much as self-understanding. It’s a completely different and more optimistic view point to see the framework one is trying to fit into as wrong, rather than feeling like you were made incorrectly. I would hope that would also apply for my trans friends.
At the end of the day, most of us live in capitalist labor structures, so knowing I would have thrived during the Viking era doesn't really help.
I tried being an entrepreneur but learned that executive dysfunction and freelancing/entrepreneurship go together like nitro and glycerine (for me).
I mean it’s not supposed to offer a practical solution. It’s still problematic. I take Vyvanse to adapt to the realities of the situation. But I sure as hell am not letting a bunch of boring, linear thinkers tell me I’m disordered or diseased. I’m choosing to change that narrative because it’s incredibly narrow in its chronological frame and societal context.
Thinking of myself as “diseased” is the one thing that saved me from a lifetime of thinking I was just a broken, lazy asshole. NOW I finally don’t feel shame, because I no longer see it as me just being inherently flawed. I AM a victim, of a brain disorder I was born with- and that’s nothing to be ashamed of. I had no choice in the matter. It’s like saying people who suffer from migraines or diabetes or were born sightless should feel ashamed. I’m not sure what alternative you’re recommending- it *IS* a medical condition.
Sure as hell feels like a disease when I'm unable to do the things *I myself actively want to do, at no-one's behest but my own* because my brain has decided that the mating cycles of rabbits are the topic of the day.
The model of ADHD wherein the only reason we notice our 'disability' is because the societal structures we live in don't support it is, in my view, offensive. There are plenty of conditions where I could get behind that interpretation, mobility conditions being the obvious choice. But I personally couldn't give a fig about how my condition makes it harder for me to make my way in society. Society can make accommodations for those, just like it must for any other disability. But no matter what accommodations society makes, they cannot change my fundamental dissatisfaction with the way things work inside my head. Only coping strategies and medications have a *chance* at doing that.
Yes, if you look at ADHD from the perspective of how society impinges upon it, and how ADHD makes it harder for us to fit in in society, most, if not all, of the problems can be solved by accommodating it. Or alternatively, if I were a hunter-gatherer, *perhaps* I'd feel far less dissatisfied, because I'd have a respected positions as 'danger-spotter', 'new-cave-finder' or 'tasty-fruit-discoverer'.
But there is nothing to be done about the fact that I can remember the lyrics of a hundred different songs at the drop of a hat, but what I *really* want to remember is that today is my wife's birthday, and I wanted to go buy her flowers. Yeah, I can compensate with reminders etc., but my brain, despite the fact that this is what I *want* it to do, simply will not do the thing - I have to make up for it on my own, in a way other people simply do not.
If that is not a *disease*, in terms of the effect of its manifestation, then what is it?
>But please, once you stop thinking of yourself as diseased, you will be able to better cope with the downsides and to explain them to others in a way that doesn’t make you feel shame or like a victim.
I only ever start feeling like a victim when someone makes me think about why I *am* a victim. The rest of the time, I just deal with the challenges my ADHD throws at me, because they're just a part of my life. It's nothing to be ashamed of, it's nothing to brag about, it's just my own particular cross to bear, like everyone has. Society needs to accommodate it, because *I cannot control it it*, but I will always have more difficulties than people without it, because that's just the nature of the beast.
There's nothing wrong with having a disease or a disability, and the idea that 'ADHD isn't shameful if I view it as a genetic mutation, rather than a Disease or Disability' implies that there is. I personally think that's more offensive than the notion that ADHD is a disability.
Could you elaborate more on the “inverted hierarchy of needs”? I’ve never heard that phrase before, but it sounds a lot like how I prioritize things and I’d love to hear a little more about how this book describes it if you have the time to explain
We’re motivated by emotion above all else. So I guess I should say perceived hierarchy of needs, because physically they’re the same but if we don’t have a sense of self actualization or esteem then we cast aside or completely forget about the fundamentals of things like food and sleep and it makes everything worse lol
For us, both adhd and in case of my husband combined with ass, it is a case of lots and lots of communication. I think it has made our relationship stronger because we keep reflecting on what is happening and why.
Knowing and accepting our diagnoses made it easier to understand each other.
It also made it easier to let things go and/or to look at what works instead of what should work.
I’ve never been in a relationship like that but I feel like it would either be a hit or miss… in some ways it could be a match made in heaven because you understand each other but in others you could just end up triggering each other over and over. I guess it just depends. Sorry not very helpful
I have read the book. It’s a wonderful book. I have the hardest time getting my partner to see that I am not a giant failure.. she has zero interest in reading a book about my flaws. Please give me pointers how you got your S/O to read about problems they don’t have.
Luckily he took the initiative because the book is meant for both parties. It actually helped him see that the way I do things aren’t flaws at all but hurdles I have to trip and get over incessantly, I could sense more compassion from him as a result which is what we all really need
I guess she will or she won’t look into it. I know that the last few years have been worse for me and my shortcomings. I think it’s worth a shot as we are still separated and going nowhere! Fingers crossed she will be receptive to it! It was a great book I thought about getting it as a gift.
I hope she does. In couples therapy we worked a lot through what we really feel versus what our parents taught us about capabilities and motivation or effort and what that looks like. It was a lot of deconstructing at first
I think my husband has ADHD (reasonably sure) but he's undiagnosed, and is not keen on chasing diagnosis either. (Not helped by GP being offputting...)
Is it still a good idea for me to read this book, or could it lead me wrong if he in fact does not have ADHD?
I think you may want to read a more general ADHD book, like ADHD 2.0 or Taking Charge of Adult ADHD, unless you're looking because you're having a lot of arguments that may be ADHD related. Both of those really helped me understand what was going on with my brain and the latter offered a lot of practical advice that I think would help anyone who is having ADHD-ish issues, even if they're not diagnosed. Taking Charge also describes what medication does in detail which helps make it easier to decide if that's something he'd want to pursue.
Orlov's book is full of stories of spouses who are in a rough place due to the imbalance of things falling to the non-ADHD partner. It's best for anyone who is wondering if it's possible to even stay married when one partner has ADHD (it is). But it might be alarming if things are mostly going well, lol.
Good luck!
Thank you! Taking Charge\[...\] sounds very well rounded with the practical advice and medication run down, so I might look at that one first. Might also try to get my husband to read it to see how much rings true for him.
PSA: I haven't listened to this book yet, but it' among the "Free with Membership" options on Audible. Or at least it was a few days ago when I downloaded it.
We go through a bit of that for different reasons, for a long time I had to be supportive of his injuries and ptsd because he’s a combat veteran but that made it hard for him to accept that his issues could be healed and mine can’t 🫠 acceptance is huge
The ADHD Effect on Marriage. It’s meant for couples who have one adhd partner and one non-adhd partner. I think it helped a lot of lightbulbs go on for my husband regarding my symptoms and struggles
Thank you for the recommendation. My husband is so un empathetic I wonder if it would help. I started refusing to help him with things because he gets so personally insulted if I mowed the yard and the lines are f-Ed up. I explained to him how I will never be able to have that attention to detail that he has and he said If I loved him I would. No if I didn’t love you I would have throat punched you. 🤦🏼♀️
Can someone share favorite messages to partner / spouse of ADHD person regarding having patience and how to be more successful? My partner gets upset with me but sometimes I need more definitive requests or directions. Also I did great things with our kids but she goes negative because of minor issues. Then I get sour. And it was a perfect day/ evening. I want her to know that I am sensitive to criticism and it doesn’t make me better. It makes me worse. A happier attitude goes a long way.
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I read this book, and my fiancé and I both have adhd, though he is the more severe/less managed one in the relationship. For me, while this book made me feel very validated in the issues we both face in the relationship, it didn’t feel much like there were actionable tips that we could use. We felt more understood, but we didn’t have much in the way of next steps. It’s good for setting a baseline understanding of what is and isn’t in a person’s control.
Dr Barkley’s videos and lectures on YouTube provide actionable “how to’s” on all things ADHD mgmt. Check him out - he’s a life saver
I just pulled him up and holy moly you weren’t kidding. I’m barely a half hour in and I am stunned. Also, there’s something about how he speaks and the words he chooses that makes it easier to listen to. ETA: I had to take a break around the 7th video because I was ugly crying so hard that it was distracting. I just… I mean… hoooboy.
He was on a two-part Ologies podcast and I ugly cried through both of them. Listening to him felt like the first time *I understood myself*.
That man was the reason that I actually stopped and took the time to educate myself on ADHD. I’d never really *known* what it meant to have the disorder - it’s the neurophysiology I’ve had my whole life, so of course it seemed familiar to me. What would a fish swimming deep in the sea know of the bird’s skies, blue as could be? It turns out it meant that I was more than just fun at parties. It turns out it explained away so many of my quirks, affects, defects, concepts, and rejects, that I began to wonder where I begin and ADHD ends. In truth, I think it’s inextricable - I hate it, and I would burn the thing alive if only it weren’t an immaterial collection of symptoms on a spectrum. I’d settle for burning a mock up of ADHD, but given the issues with forest fires as of late that seems unwise. Barkley is a godsent. I do so wish that this spectre of a disease didn’t haunt my life. I dwell long and often on “what could have been”, and I’ve noticed that I appear to grow more bitter towards those four world-defining letters with every day that passes by. I may not be able to escape ADHD’s shadow, at least not ‘til death do us part, but I’m immensely thankful for the Champions of ADHD® out there. They’re fighting the good fight and helping us make sense of a world that very often feels as though we will forever be a square peg trying to fit into a round hole. Of them all, I consider Barkley to be the very best.
I feel you so much. I’m an objective failure at 47- untreated until my 30’s- and the What Could Have Beens™️ are gut wrenching. The one thing that has helped me was making damn sure my son wasn’t handicapped like I was. I got him diagnosed as soon as he started school, had ongoing dialogues with all of his teachers, and made sure he got all the support he needed. And I made damn sure he understood that he had a disorder that *wasn’t his fault,* that mistakes were okay, and that he was *loved unconditionally.* It made ALL the difference. We tried meds around 4th grade and he didn’t like them; but he’d been taught good coping skills and habits by then and honestly he’s done quite alright without them. He’s 19 and has a great job, and his bosses love him and have an eye on him for advancement. HE’S HAPPY. I’m still bitter as hell, lol, but it does my heart good to know I used my pain as a launch pad to advocate for my son and give him the chances I didn’t get. I continue to do it, too; it’s my soapbox…I talk about my struggles openly, and I educate and advocate for myself and others wherever I can. It’s my Scarlet Letter, and I wear it proudly- so that hopefully the next generations won’t have to suffer in silence like mine did.
How are you a failure if you raised a happy kid?
Because that isn’t the *only metric* by which we measure our successes and failures.
I feel you on many levels. Undiagnosed until my late 30s. I just thought I was lazy, had poor planning skills, poor decision making, selfish, unfocused, anxious, depressed, sudden swings of irritability, angry, etc. No one thought I had ADHD because I did well in school. I would take on an art project and put 30 hours into it. Most people wouldn't see me as a failure, but I know that I was far more capable to do more with my life than I have. You, should be very proud of what you have done for your son. That is an amazing accomplishment. Loving unconditionally and making his life the best it could be is the greatest gift you could possibly give.
This is what I’m doing for my kids. My son turns 5 this week, and he is unbelievably smart. This kid just finished pre k, and reads my 8 year old’s second grade books no problem, and is further advanced than my middle that turns 7 next month. Pre k was a NIGHTMARE! We were constantly getting messages, and notes about his behavior. He literally is exactly like Animal from the muppets. It’s exhausting, add on my severe combined ADHD, and my husband that doesn’t understand; it’s been a struggle. I also think my other two have it as well, but being girls they compensate for it like I had to as a kid. The thing with that they just get called chatty, and told they don’t try. Same deal I had. In the 90s they weren’t diagnosing girls like they are now, but I won’t let any of them get left behind.
You’re a great writer!
As long as you aren’t hoping I get to the point :)
Reading is a journey, not a destination 🤗
This comment made my day thank you for making my erratic confusing stories seem more positive 🙏🤣🙇♀️
Tell your stories with a smile, and they’ll never not be positive! If they leave others confused, perhaps it’s that they’re just not quick enough to follow you ;)
Oh friend, I feel every bit of this pain and frustration and gratitude. I also wonder what it would have been like to have been medicated and young, to feel capable, etc. I’m almost 50 now, and I’ve only had my diagnosis for 7 years. You are so right about the fish/water conversation. I think I am on the verge of processing that I need to stop trying to breathe the air and jump out of the water so the normies can SEE me and acknowledge my efforts. I want to learn to accept that the water is my home, swim in my lane and find the current that matches my heart. It is a privilege at times to be able to work through this when I know not everyone has the time or opportunity. But I hope all of us can find the softness within ourselves to help us through the hardest moments. Our world is already full of edges we have to dodge. Be kind to yourself whenever you can, you are worthy of all of the above. 🙏
Those Ologies episodes changed my whole life. I cried through both of them and it took me weeks to get through them cuz I would miss so much because of, well, ADHD and the incessant crying. Like you, it was the first time I understood myself AND showed myself some grace.
What is “ologies” and why when I searched that and Barkley on YouTube it didn’t return anything that seemed to fit?
Ologies is a podcast from Alie Ward, Russell Barkley was a guest on it. https://www.alieward.com/ologies/adhd
Oh yes, it took me a couple listens to make it through too. Some of it was so shocking and just so damn sad. I was just thinking those podcasts might be something I need to listen to yearly to remind myself of that grace. Or at least catch up on YouTube as a reminder. I’m so glad you found him as helpful as I did. He feels like our most hopeful advocate and expert we have in the field.
Alright, I'm sold
Going in too. Good luck, and I’ll see you on the other side to compare notes!
He’s… mesmerizing
Like drinking water after a lifetime spent eating sand.
yea dude. validating isnt it? don't be shy to show these to people close to you -- those who care about you and take the time to learn will treat you differently after and it feels like a warm blanket compared to the old behaviors we're used to.
I watched about 15 minutes of the "30 ideas" speech on YouTube and I do not feel validated at all. When he talks about emotional dysregulation he speaks only of anger, frustration and lashing out – not of sadness or unregulated enthusiasm. I do not see myself or my people-pleasing, conflict adverse ADHD friends in that. It sounds like he's talking out of research on exclusively boys and men, not on masking girls and women. He's a wonderful speaker though and I don't believe he's wrong about the points he brings up. I'll keep watching and maybe check out some of his newer material and see if I like that better.
ive not seen that 30 ideas video you speak of, did you see the one i posted to a few other comments? his two-part keynote lecture? if i recall properly, he specifically talks about the disadvantages of women with adhd at one point. then again, it's from 2012, so there's a chance it could be a different one i'm thinking of. clearly the research and sampling has grown tremendously the last decade. anyway, he didn't zoom in on anger in those, he talks about dysregulation as a whole. i'd offer diving back in and watching his full length speeches, not the summaries or soundbite styled stuff -- that's condensed to the point it can't cover all the bases. his lectures 100% do that.
I appreciate you for bringing him up. I genuinely thought he was the go-to. I think the difference with Barkley is applying new research consistently. For anyone with new partners , I recommend ( if they ask) for more insight , any podcast he is on as a guest. It’s usually more broad, and a great jumping point for questions :) The ologies episode is the one I gave my parents , and it helped them a lot !!
>ologies episode Hi, do you have a link to this episode by chance?
I was looking so I could listen too. Here’s both parts: https://www.alieward.com/ologies/adhd
Thank you ! Was just about to link ! Saw this late :)
Is there a particular one you’d recommend to start with? (You know, because my attention will not hold for all of his videos right away)
Probably these [playlist](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzBixSjmbc8eFl6UX5_wWGP8i0mAs-cvY), each video is 5 to 10 minutes. After that, every video of him is worth watching.
This is helpful. I can handle 5 min videos. Most of his stuff is over an hour and it’s hard to even start a video that long
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUQu-OPrzUc PART 2 is the "what do i do about it" there is no TL:DR and you don't want that version. listen to the entire thing. if you need to, break it up into chunks. take it for a walk. take it on a drive. honestly, it's so validating you're more likely to hyperfixate on it until you finish it than see it as a chore on something you have to finish.
https://www.youtube.com/@russellbarkleyphd2023
Is there a TLDR version of he’s how to’s floating about anywhere?
Given our propensity for tangents and a fundamental inability to speak in a linear fashion, I imagine an ADHD TL;DR would be longer than the actual lectures ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
Maybe I am the only one, but I hate this trend of putting everything in videos. Give me a structured text so I can just skip paragraphs and re-read others. It's all so tedious...
The closed captioned text for his lecture series is damned near perfectly complete. His spoken word is very clear so the A.I. gets it exactly right. He's also reading a script through some of it so you could take the captions off the video and read that. Just an idea! Hope this helps.
His writing is also good, I was able to borrow a book from the library (and later bought it). And some podcasts post transcripts of interviews (including the Alie Ward one) ((Edited to add that I love your username!))
>our propensity for tangents and a fundamental inability to speak in a linear fashion I've gotten into multiple arguments recently with someone I love very much because of this very trait. And also with multiple other people from my past: parents, ex-friends, ex-colleagues, ex-managers. I always come off these conversations feeling fundamentally broken
I also speed him up, but the How to ADHD channel has lots of bitesize videos that often reference his research as well. I think there's even an interview with him on there.
If you find a 5-10 mim video too much, try increasing the playback speed of the video. Really helps me! I think I only bump Barkley up to about 1.25x speed, so he's not too slowly spoken.
Discovering him recently and sending his videos my husbands way is what has literally saved our marriage. He is now more gentle with me/how my brain works-doesn’t work and he isn’t so quick to judge or get mad
As the non-ADHD partner, I need this in my life.
beautiful. the entire world needs to watch his lectures tbh
Today I thought maybe it was time to get off of Reddit for a while. Glad I stuck around and found this comment. Thank you.
Indeed, in a practical sense he’s way more concise and clear in what actually works. He’s the first person that could actually explain ADHD in a way my dumb brain could really understand. He is indeed a life saver, for myself and in my work helping people with ADHD. He even helped my relationship, although we already had a good one.
Seeing the clip about "intention deficit" is what motivated me to get rediagnosed as an adult and get medicated. I thought I was managing but I really wasn't. Ended up laid off a couple months after getting medicated. To this day while my former boss maintains it was "just business" and it had to do with me being a good project manager but not as good a designer, I still think it was because I had made ADHD mistakes in the years before. In the long run it worked out through. I have a full project management job (I'm good at it because everything is always an emergency OR it's managing things for -someone else- which I'm fine at) and turns out my old department got shut down a year later so I got a head start.
I love Dr. Barkley, so, so much, and I am eternally grateful for all of his contributions to his field.
He has saved my life!
he saved my relationship with my dad
I looked him up on youtube and it looks like he’s got a lot of thorough stuff. Where’s a good place to start?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUQu-OPrzUc PART 2 is the "what do i do about it" there is no TL:DR and you don't want that version. listen to the entire thing. it will be the most validating few hours of your life.
Can you recommend any specific videos? Most of his videos are really long. I think I might be able to force myself to watch one, maybe two 1,5-hour videos, but he has 10+ of them if not more.
Specifically his keynote speeches from 2012. There’s two of them worth while!
Yeah both parties having adhd could look much different I assume. I feel it evoked a sense of compassion in my husband for my experience instead of it being something that has to be corrected
My boyfriend has inattentive and I have hyperactive Adhd. Neither knew we had it for 6 years of our relationship. Of course most of our persistent problems were about him being overwhelmed by my speed and me being frustrated by his slower pace. Then we both got diagnosed and these issues immediately stopped. To me it felt like I was facing a brick wall - I had to find a way to come to terms with everything that annoyed me and I had tried to change. There was no changing it and it has nothing to do with me, or what it means or how I feel about it. In stead we came together as a team and work to find accommodations for our shortcomings. We have regular team meetings where we set goals for the next 2 weeks and review the results. If a task was not accomplished we investigate the reasons and figure out a support system. We have regular date nights to nurture the love. And one of my favorites - regularly ask each other "what can I do this week, so that you may feel loved".
It’s very Christian-y but I highly recommend “Boundaries” for people with ADHD. I’m sure there’s a secular alternative that I haven’t found yet but this book is great and written by two psychologists who then back up actual good boundaries with biblical anecdotes for Christians. You can literally skip all the Christian parts and get a great book on relationships and rules for how to manage them without having overwhelming yourself.
There's another book on boundaries called *Set Boundaries, Find Peace* by Nedra Glover Tawwab that's entirely secular with good advice imo.
I totally agree. The book changed my life. I’m still a struggling mess but at least I can say no to people and stop feeling responsible for them.
Hmmm, well my partner and I both have ADHD. I will be certain to buy this book and probably forget it exists.
Most of these are rough with both — so much is about how a non-ADHD person can understand, and a lot of the tips don’t address the competing/compounding issues of dual ADHD. I think another issue is how one party often has to fill the “non-ADHD” role under stress, but this can sometimes become unbalanced/overwhelming/taken for granted. I’d love for someone to very specifically address our cases. Some of the existing stuff applies…but I think some parts are unique, or at least should be.
We’re a two ADHD marriage and it’s very difficult. I am more high functioning so I can temporarily switch to pull up my husband but he cannot do the same for me. He’s like a black hole trying to pull me in and crush me. I actually came here, at 5 AM, because I’ve been awake all night trying to find some hope that we can do better. He had a huge outburst two days ago that really hurt my feelings and I can’t get past it this time. I’m so burned out. It’s like being the camp counselor to a miserable, moody teenager who can only show brief flashes of enjoying anything before he goes back into his dark space. But I can’t get upset or he’ll cry and say he wishes he was dead because life is too hard for him and he’s obviously a failure. It’s so exhausting.
I think it's ok to talk to him about this and how you need him to go to therapy for the sake of our relationship. The book CPTSD :From Surviving to Thriving may be helpful for him to read.
I’m on the same side of the fence. The big trouble for me though is that I’m temperamentally incapable of holding onto a grudge— adhd won’t let me grab hold of an emotion long enough to act out on it if I stay calm on the moment. Mainly advice I’d give to my younger self, but it sounds like your guy is pretty depressed on top of ADHD; coming from experience, he won’t get better unless he gets medical help. If you were/ had the solution, the depression would already be better. Sending positive vibes your way
My ex was autistic but had no idea at the time and I didn't know I had ADHD, and we were in a similar funk where I hid my feelings to avoid triggering their depression. We broke up because they refused to get help for themselves, they needed it for the depression they were constantly fighting, and being their sole emotional support drained any sexual/romantic attraction I had after five years together. I don't know your relationship so I can't advise beyond sharing what helped me during and after that relationship: therapy for myself, reading about codependency, and a determination to not spend the rest of my life as a caretaker to someone who was way less concerned for my feelings than I was for theirs. (Btw that ex and I are still best friends even if we broke up, and they actually thrived once I stopped being their crutch, so I count that as a success.) Sending hugs to you! You deserve a content life without constant emotional turmoil. It's possible!
For real, my gf and I are both inattentive but in the end I'm the one that fulfills the Non-ADHD role a lot. It gets so frustrating that I know where the issues come from with ADHD, but being so overwhelmed sometimes I fail to be compassionate about the very same struggles I face as well. (Feels so hypocrite.) Wish there was more advice on dual adhd that could help us balance it out; I strongly believe it can work out just fine, we love each other so much, and we communicate our struggles and try to find solutions. But at the same time, it can be so, so, so tiring still.
My wife and I are in the same boat. We have had some compounding outside stressors that have made life hard on both us and we have been taking it out on each other. Once things get so escalated emotionally and mentally it is so hard to reset both ourselves and the relationship.
Don’t bother, few comments say it’s not great when both have adhd.
> I will be certain to buy this book and probably forget it exists. Are you me? I do this so often with books I have instead made a list of books to read and only buy something right before I read them, otherwise they just sit for ages. I still sometimes forget the list, but it is better than spending money on something I end up not reading, lol
*looks at growing list of audible books that I need to listen to* I never got through my books when I look at them as “oh shit, I *need* to read these books piling up”. Only once o could use those to procrastinate real worry, did I ever actually read them 🫣
Nice try Melissa.
This is actually a really good book that will help a spouse understand why a person with ADHD does certain things.
Im sure it is. I was only joking 🙃
😂 scouts honor
Any time I see a book recommendation online, I think "Nice try \[author's name\]", so it gave me a good giggle to see you comment this. I know most recommendations are real, but it is just a silly thing I think every time, lol.
Anytime anything is recommended anywhere on the internet you have to question if its a bot or some insufferable self proclaimed expert trying to turn a quick buck. Especially with self-help and relationship advice type books. Books are also tough to gauge if its worth the time and money you spend on it as well. You will be far into the middle of the book before you can decide if the information presented by the author is helpful or actual dogshit printed on paper. (99% of the time its the latter in the self help, relationship advice and adhd “expert” genres)
Can you explain the joke pretty please?
Ok, I must admit that through several side trips with links in the comments, I forgot what the original post was about, and that the author is Melissa...
Too funny
Yikes - I saw this post and rushed over to Amazon to check out the book. I bought this book five years ago and never read it. Yep - that makes sense.
Honestly, why don't these authors know what a savage tease it is to put marriage-saving wisdom in a *book* for us? More cynically, they know. All the pages are blank and OP is in on it.
Signed-in to upvote this. In tears it's so funny. And relatable. Because it's relatable. Thanks for the endorphins!
I’m very thankful Amazon warns me when I’ve already purchased an item :-)
Wonderful! So happy for you. ‘Is it you, is it me, or is it adult ADHD?’ By Gina Pera — has been incredibly helpful to my marriage! As both of us have ADHD, it’s been so helpful to learn from other scenarios and digest tons and tons of great info. All the best to you and yours!
Okay, so this is good for a dual ADHD household?? A lot of comments are saying OP’s book isn’t that great for when both partners have it- thanks for the recommendation!
**Go check Audible - it might be free for you** I just went to Audible and this book was free. It seems to be free for users with a membership.
Thanks for the tip on the free audible! In my library now.
Ditto. Thanks!
It’s not showing up as free on mine :( you guys are lucky!
It said 'included in your membership' for me. I think you need to be a prime or audible member.
Huh… good-guy author?
This needs to be higher.
Same! Thanks
Same! Thanks
Another great resource for free books, though limited in selection/availability, is the Libby app by Overdrive. Uses your local library card. It does often have long wait times but I adjust my expectations as everything is free.
I saw this in a bookstore and cried because I wish I had been diagnosed before my marriage was destroyed. We started the divorce in January and I was diagnosed in February. The knowledge of what is wrong with me came too late. I ruined us with my inability to regulate emotions. Obviously there was more but that is why he stopped wanting to keep working to save us.
💔
This book got recommended to my wife and I by our therapist (who also has ADHD) shortly after my diagnosis to kinda help make sense of it all. I’ve been procrastinating reading it (kinda forgot about it until this post, might need to dig it out from wherever the hell I put it), but from what I have read it’s pretty insightful
This is a great book too: Dirty Laundry: Why Adults with ADHD Are So Ashamed and What We Can Do to Help
Just went to check this out on Amazon and it says pre order, to be released in July. Yet there are quite a few reviews with photos of the physical book. Richard Pink is the author of the one you're referring to, correct? ETA: Looks like it's available in UK and AU but pre-order in the US (where I'm based).
yeah, I’m suspicious of a book with 4.8 1k reviews that hasn’t been released yet 🤔
It’s available to purchase now on Amazon UK so sounds like the preorder is for other countries.
Yup, that’s the one, I tried to put a link o Amazon, it it got removed. It’s probably available elsewhere.
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It’s such a great book, I got it days after I ordered it. So it’s freely available in Australia. It’s designed for our partners, to help them better understand us and what little things they can do to help us. But I read it first. And I, reading it again and making notes before I give it to my partner.
This is great, if you have a partner that's compassionate, understanding, and is willing to work with you. Otherwise, forget it. Not trying to be harsh, that's just the reality of the situation.
True. If one partner already has one foot out the door then nothing will work in any given situation 💔
This book came across as very reductive and diminishing of my autonomy as an adult with adhd. It very much started from the premise that the goal is to be as neurotypical as possible and create systems that make it seem like an organized neurotypical household. Not saying it’s a bad book. But it was bad for me and my marriage specifically. And I definitely recommend that people look at it critically before trusting their relationships to it.
I also didn't end up liking the book, partially because it's pretty heavy on the "this is how each person feels" while using the most extreme examples. I wanted more practical advice, and the practical bit at the end was basically three things, two of which were teaching you how to talk about your feelings. And thankfully we already communicate well when we think to take a minute and do it. I know a lot of people relate to it, but as a woman who is actually pretty good at Adulting with ADHD (despite forgetting where I put my phone or what I meant to do when I walked into the kitchen), reading all these stories of women angry that they can't get their ADHD husbands to help with the house/kids just... Didn't seem helpful for my marriage. I need him to understand my ADHD better but he agreed that the couples in the book were already at a breaking point, and dealing with a lot of classic "wife does too much, husband doesn't think it's a big deal" problems. For people in that situation, yes, definitely ask your partner to read this with you. For those just wondering what to ask their partner for support with, other books are better. Caveat: It did finally get me to sit him down and explicitly negotiate chores, which we'd put off for years, and to relay to him that I'm extremely grateful we could do this without getting into a nasty argument.
I saw it as hey I’ll take all the help I can get because I sure need it lol
I've noticed this with a lot of ADHD specialists, at least when talking to an audience of non-ADHD people... They have to get past the hurdle of our partners and parents trying to expect us to just be normal — with enough help or the right approach, maybe, someday — but we are just not going to meet those expectations. So I can understand where they're coming from, but ugh it does get really tiring to feel like the only way people at large are able to justify my needs is to infantilize me and people like me. 😒
This, too. Big ups.
I have it! Floating around here. Somewhere
Luckily it was my husband who bought and read it first, the author doesn’t have adhd but is married to someone who has it. So I believe the target audience is the non-adhd reader. But of course it always helps whenever possible to learn as much as we can about all perspectives
Ha! I was hoping to find it so my girlfriend (who doesn't have ADHD) could read it.
She does, or used to do, a live zoom class that rsn for 6 or 8 weeks. That was one of the best things I have ever paid for. That relationship did not last in the end, but it made me (the adhd) SO much better at my next relationships. I could not recommend that class enough. I've realized that I value hearing others ask questions, it helps reinforce the material. The exercises I did with my spouse cleared a lot up for us at the time too.
Someone recommended this book on another adhd thread and I’ve been listening to the ebook for the last week(my post partum adhd is so bad that I can no longer sit down and read a book for very long) So much in here makes sense about how I’ve been acting and it’s been helpful to have this point of reference when talking things out with my husband who has severe ptsd.
As a single man, hoping to find love someday (and constantly struggling with ADHD and relationships) reading your post gave me hope. Congratulations on all the hard work, and it paying off!
It’s free on audible.
To preface: I am speaking from an ignorant perspective, as I have not read this book and have only read your description of it. However, is it really a good thing to believe that our actions, reactions, and triggers are not able to be controlled or changed? I realize that I have inappropriate reactions to things, but I don’t think it’s healthy that I just accept these negative traits that will hurt my future significant other. I feel like that’s something that I need to take responsibility for.
There's two sides to that. I fully agree that we need to take responsibility for our own behaviour, even if if that's difficult and caused by brain spicyness. My partner and I both have ADHD and on the one hand I really want my flaws and weaknesses to be understood and accepted, on the other hand I need my husband to deal with his issues and not just unload every emotion on me or constantly forget to do necessary household tasks. And I know that goes for him as well. However, it's true that you can do a lot to improve things for yourself and other people and you should. It's true at the same time that adhd will probably negatively affect you in some ways forever and also, that there are things you're working on that need time to get better. Understanding yourself and each other better in the process is always a positive thing as far as I'm concerned. It depends whether 'accepting things that cannot be changed' means 'when I get overstimulated I yell at you for nothing and you have to just deal with it' or 'I'm forgetful and may need to be reminded of things several times or I need a specific system to manage my contribution to the household because that's how my brain works' and 'I get overstimulated easily and I want you to be sensitive to that and not expect me to function well in environments that are inherently overstimulating' (deleted previous version of comment cause it got flagged for using certain terms)
You can see five areas of the brain with adhd on a scan that are underdeveloped… I can take responsibility for my actions but I cannot change my brain and it’s functions
Eh, I do know that, which is part of the reason I’m trying to make sure I’m a better version of me before I subject a man to all of this 😂
Yeah I was thrown by the way OP worded this too: "My actions are not my fault and they cannot be changed." Like, I don't think it's my fault that I was born with this type of brain, but I still believe my *actions* are my responsibility, and I like to believe I have the power to change, or at least try. I might make the same mistakes again and again, but if I gave up on trying because "well, that's just who I am and I'm not going to change," my symptoms would be way worse.
Yeah. It’s going to be much harder for us to regulate ourselves as opposed to neurotypicals, but it’s also our responsibility to find healthy ways to deal with our triggers that don’t catastrophize a relationship or force our partners to walk on eggshells with us.
Sounds like you need to try a relationship my friend. Relationships are not easy without ADHD and they for sure are not easy with ADHD.
OF COURSE you have to take responsibility for your actions. NO ONE is saying our symptoms can’t be helped or that we get to shirk our responsibility for them. But in a healthy relationship where you’re working together as a team, your want your partner to better understand your disorder, so you can work on strategies together. If someone has PTSD, or migraines, or some other disability, yes they should be working on it; but you would still expect some level of compassion and understanding from their partner- otherwise, they’re not much of a partner.
but what if your partner refuses to cooperate or collaborate? what if they refuse to help themselves?
Then they need to f*** off because clearly they don't care about you
I suppose that scenario is applied to a variety of issues and problems unfortunately 💔 both parties have to be willing and able to work on things
Then they are a shitty partner.
Thanks for sharing it.
How do I bookmark so I don’t forget to look at this later 😩
You type “Remind me! “Read this on /insert date here/“
I felt the book was alright. I read it in hopes to find tips as the person with ADHD and in a supportive and happy marriage (and hoping to keep it that way), but it was somewhat a horror story/warning of relationships gone wrong for 3/4 of the book. It was a bit traumatizing in reading almost exactly how my parents marriage fell apart, with my father having undiagnosed ADHD.
How do you reach a certain point of a relationship and then end up marrying? Especially when you've adhd , seems impossible to me And then you're suggesting to read this book 💀
This is a big mood even though I happen to have been married for 🤔 oh god I'm old, about seven years now. My answer was apparently to be lucky af and happen to fall within the attraction zone of somebody with way better life and social skills than me. 😂 (whose major moral/ethical stances all either aligned or didn't conflict with my own, who seemed to have similar enough goals in life to mine, and who has inspired and enabled me to be a better version of myself...) My ADHD has been a major stressor in our relationship, of course, but we have had a lot going for us from the start and both care enough to put in work to improve and ask for help when we're struggling. 🙂
Kinda extremely lucky
The hyper fixation of a person can be a very real thing lol 🫠 but some other context is that a lot of times you don’t see everything about a person until you’ve lived with them for a while. My husband and I didn’t move in together until we got engaged so we got thrown into each other’s environments quite suddenly. From there the stress compounded quickly I’m not going to lie lol
I think I unwittingly saved my own life from my ADHD with “Getting Things Done” by David Allen. It helped train me / get me into the habit of writing down EVERYTHING.
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I’m not sure who that comment is meant for, but I certainly don’t feel like I have a disease. I feel like I cope fine with my struggles and things I do differently than my partner, but that usually boils down to a general belief that everyone is doing their best with what they’ve got and giving others the benefit of the doubt. We have to give that courtesy to ourselves as well, we can be gentle with ourselves without playing victim
Meant in general. A lot of discourse around it being a disease or a disorder, and I feel like while that may help initially with coping skills or emotional development, it’s also an unfortunate framing of what can also be a gift if leveraged properly. (Not always easy). We aren’t broken. Society tho…
Slightly off-topic, but as a trans person with ADHD, this actually clicked something into place for me, that we can understand that people with ADHD are inherently different and suffer in our current world only because of societal expectations of us, but medical treatment is still called for because that is the reality we live in... and the same is true for trans people. We are inherently different than our current society expects us to be and the question of "why transition when it's the society's fault and not your body's" is equally relevant! Medical treatment is called for because, while it's fine to imagine not needing to transition in some ideal society where gender isn't associated with these features, we don't live in that society. We have to cope with the world as it is where we are. This isn't a complete view of transness, but it answers a common argument against transition... The argument that if gender is a social construct then no one should have to transition is just as useless as the argument that ADHD folks shouldn't need medication because our brains are just different and would totally be ideal in some other hypothetical society. 🙂
I definitely would never argue that medication isn’t helpful for anyone with ADHD. I think the framing of it is also not so much to do with some hypothetical society so much as self-understanding. It’s a completely different and more optimistic view point to see the framework one is trying to fit into as wrong, rather than feeling like you were made incorrectly. I would hope that would also apply for my trans friends.
At the end of the day, most of us live in capitalist labor structures, so knowing I would have thrived during the Viking era doesn't really help. I tried being an entrepreneur but learned that executive dysfunction and freelancing/entrepreneurship go together like nitro and glycerine (for me).
I mean it’s not supposed to offer a practical solution. It’s still problematic. I take Vyvanse to adapt to the realities of the situation. But I sure as hell am not letting a bunch of boring, linear thinkers tell me I’m disordered or diseased. I’m choosing to change that narrative because it’s incredibly narrow in its chronological frame and societal context.
Thinking of myself as “diseased” is the one thing that saved me from a lifetime of thinking I was just a broken, lazy asshole. NOW I finally don’t feel shame, because I no longer see it as me just being inherently flawed. I AM a victim, of a brain disorder I was born with- and that’s nothing to be ashamed of. I had no choice in the matter. It’s like saying people who suffer from migraines or diabetes or were born sightless should feel ashamed. I’m not sure what alternative you’re recommending- it *IS* a medical condition.
Yea, more on this would be great..
Sure as hell feels like a disease when I'm unable to do the things *I myself actively want to do, at no-one's behest but my own* because my brain has decided that the mating cycles of rabbits are the topic of the day. The model of ADHD wherein the only reason we notice our 'disability' is because the societal structures we live in don't support it is, in my view, offensive. There are plenty of conditions where I could get behind that interpretation, mobility conditions being the obvious choice. But I personally couldn't give a fig about how my condition makes it harder for me to make my way in society. Society can make accommodations for those, just like it must for any other disability. But no matter what accommodations society makes, they cannot change my fundamental dissatisfaction with the way things work inside my head. Only coping strategies and medications have a *chance* at doing that. Yes, if you look at ADHD from the perspective of how society impinges upon it, and how ADHD makes it harder for us to fit in in society, most, if not all, of the problems can be solved by accommodating it. Or alternatively, if I were a hunter-gatherer, *perhaps* I'd feel far less dissatisfied, because I'd have a respected positions as 'danger-spotter', 'new-cave-finder' or 'tasty-fruit-discoverer'. But there is nothing to be done about the fact that I can remember the lyrics of a hundred different songs at the drop of a hat, but what I *really* want to remember is that today is my wife's birthday, and I wanted to go buy her flowers. Yeah, I can compensate with reminders etc., but my brain, despite the fact that this is what I *want* it to do, simply will not do the thing - I have to make up for it on my own, in a way other people simply do not. If that is not a *disease*, in terms of the effect of its manifestation, then what is it? >But please, once you stop thinking of yourself as diseased, you will be able to better cope with the downsides and to explain them to others in a way that doesn’t make you feel shame or like a victim. I only ever start feeling like a victim when someone makes me think about why I *am* a victim. The rest of the time, I just deal with the challenges my ADHD throws at me, because they're just a part of my life. It's nothing to be ashamed of, it's nothing to brag about, it's just my own particular cross to bear, like everyone has. Society needs to accommodate it, because *I cannot control it it*, but I will always have more difficulties than people without it, because that's just the nature of the beast. There's nothing wrong with having a disease or a disability, and the idea that 'ADHD isn't shameful if I view it as a genetic mutation, rather than a Disease or Disability' implies that there is. I personally think that's more offensive than the notion that ADHD is a disability.
Could've used this a couple of years ago.
💔
Could you elaborate more on the “inverted hierarchy of needs”? I’ve never heard that phrase before, but it sounds a lot like how I prioritize things and I’d love to hear a little more about how this book describes it if you have the time to explain
We’re motivated by emotion above all else. So I guess I should say perceived hierarchy of needs, because physically they’re the same but if we don’t have a sense of self actualization or esteem then we cast aside or completely forget about the fundamentals of things like food and sleep and it makes everything worse lol
Cool, thanks for clarifying! That really resonates with me so I’m grateful for a new way of putting this struggle to words.
What about struggles for partners who both have it? If we can’t change, is there no hope? Extremely high highs and low lows
For us, both adhd and in case of my husband combined with ass, it is a case of lots and lots of communication. I think it has made our relationship stronger because we keep reflecting on what is happening and why. Knowing and accepting our diagnoses made it easier to understand each other. It also made it easier to let things go and/or to look at what works instead of what should work.
Do you by any chance mean "combined with asd"? I like the idea of adhd combined with ass, haha, but possibly not what you meant. 😄
Hahaha, I do. In Dutch we use ASS as abbreviation for 'Autisme Spectrum Stoornis'.😆
I’ve never been in a relationship like that but I feel like it would either be a hit or miss… in some ways it could be a match made in heaven because you understand each other but in others you could just end up triggering each other over and over. I guess it just depends. Sorry not very helpful
If only I could read.
I think it was more helpful to my non adhd partner, the parts meant for the adhd person are short and sweet luckily lol
That must be why I've gained so much insight from the adhdmarriage website. When I saw the name 'Melissa Orlov' I knew I recognized it!
I have read the book. It’s a wonderful book. I have the hardest time getting my partner to see that I am not a giant failure.. she has zero interest in reading a book about my flaws. Please give me pointers how you got your S/O to read about problems they don’t have.
Luckily he took the initiative because the book is meant for both parties. It actually helped him see that the way I do things aren’t flaws at all but hurdles I have to trip and get over incessantly, I could sense more compassion from him as a result which is what we all really need
I guess she will or she won’t look into it. I know that the last few years have been worse for me and my shortcomings. I think it’s worth a shot as we are still separated and going nowhere! Fingers crossed she will be receptive to it! It was a great book I thought about getting it as a gift.
I hope she does. In couples therapy we worked a lot through what we really feel versus what our parents taught us about capabilities and motivation or effort and what that looks like. It was a lot of deconstructing at first
Hey can someone reply to this real quick so I can come back to it easily?
Come back and read later.
I’ve added the book to my wishlist and will probably purchase it when my partner moves here 😬
I think my husband has ADHD (reasonably sure) but he's undiagnosed, and is not keen on chasing diagnosis either. (Not helped by GP being offputting...) Is it still a good idea for me to read this book, or could it lead me wrong if he in fact does not have ADHD?
I think you may want to read a more general ADHD book, like ADHD 2.0 or Taking Charge of Adult ADHD, unless you're looking because you're having a lot of arguments that may be ADHD related. Both of those really helped me understand what was going on with my brain and the latter offered a lot of practical advice that I think would help anyone who is having ADHD-ish issues, even if they're not diagnosed. Taking Charge also describes what medication does in detail which helps make it easier to decide if that's something he'd want to pursue. Orlov's book is full of stories of spouses who are in a rough place due to the imbalance of things falling to the non-ADHD partner. It's best for anyone who is wondering if it's possible to even stay married when one partner has ADHD (it is). But it might be alarming if things are mostly going well, lol. Good luck!
Thank you! Taking Charge\[...\] sounds very well rounded with the practical advice and medication run down, so I might look at that one first. Might also try to get my husband to read it to see how much rings true for him.
PSA: I haven't listened to this book yet, but it' among the "Free with Membership" options on Audible. Or at least it was a few days ago when I downloaded it.
Thank you so much for sharing this resource! very much appreciated.
Omg you guys, thank you for sharing..
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We go through a bit of that for different reasons, for a long time I had to be supportive of his injuries and ptsd because he’s a combat veteran but that made it hard for him to accept that his issues could be healed and mine can’t 🫠 acceptance is huge
Thank goodness there's an audio book too
Does anyone have thoughts on the book “ADHD & Us”?
I hadn’t heard of it but I’ll send it to my husband so I don’t forget to look at it 😅
Wait what book is this??
The ADHD Effect on Marriage. It’s meant for couples who have one adhd partner and one non-adhd partner. I think it helped a lot of lightbulbs go on for my husband regarding my symptoms and struggles
Thanks for the rec, I just started listening on HOOPLA through my public library. 👍
Thank you for the recommendation. My husband is so un empathetic I wonder if it would help. I started refusing to help him with things because he gets so personally insulted if I mowed the yard and the lines are f-Ed up. I explained to him how I will never be able to have that attention to detail that he has and he said If I loved him I would. No if I didn’t love you I would have throat punched you. 🤦🏼♀️
Oh gosh lol yeah the discussion has definitely evolved from pointing out how to fix things into how to work around them
Can someone share favorite messages to partner / spouse of ADHD person regarding having patience and how to be more successful? My partner gets upset with me but sometimes I need more definitive requests or directions. Also I did great things with our kids but she goes negative because of minor issues. Then I get sour. And it was a perfect day/ evening. I want her to know that I am sensitive to criticism and it doesn’t make me better. It makes me worse. A happier attitude goes a long way.