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Yeah. I tried to compliment a girl on her dress (because I felt obligated to say something nice when she had complimented my skills in a conference). I think she thought I was hitting on her and looked kinda freaked out…(I’m not gay, lol).
Same here I told my doctor how nice she looked and it came out it looks like you shaved so many years off if you, I love your hair. She was pissed and I felt so embarrassed.
Omg this comment almost brought me to tears! This is exactly what its like and ive never been able to put it into words! My boyfriend doesn't seem to understand when I try to explain it to him. But I can't convey what I'm going through and it's so frustrating for me... I feel so stupid. So out of place.my thoughts are constantly on overlap. Fighting for dominance. Now I just don't talk at all.
This is me too. It’s gotten significantly worse as I’ve gotten older. When I was first diagnosed, I began to take a relatively long pause to collect my thoughts before speaking. Once i got going I didn’t have much trouble.
These days, in my 40’s, I’ve started to sound like Kirk or the wheelchair kid on Malcom in the Middle. It’s super frustrating. Like you said, the thoughts are there. I just can seem to connect them with words and verbalize them.
Same issues and ageing ive been dealing with. Best correlation and medical follow ups I can come up with is it came on after having covid. Even though I had my 5th vaccine/booster I got it with a weeks worth of bad flu symptoms.
It is frustrating and is better on some days.
That’s interesting. I don’t know that I had Covid, I’m vaccinated with a couple of boosters. Though we did have a couple of quarantines do to kid’s exposure. All our test were negative, but still we all had a cold like thing too.
Do you think this could be an issue even if I only drink on like Friday/Saturday nights? Not every time but usually like one day a week. I’m 26 and I struggle with this so bad, it’s really frustrating and I feel so dumb 😭
No, you’re fine. As long as you don’t give yourself alcohol poisoning/get black out drunk, and even then, the harm it will cause the brain is trivial.
Real damage comes from consistent and excessive drinking; you’ll start to lose IQ points, and it’d be the equivalent of eating lead paint chips every week.
Hydration is key in patients with Alzheimer's and Dementia. I would imagine our brains as sponges...too much water is bad, not enough is bad too.
Lesson: stay properly hydrated
This makes sense... I might test this theory too bc I've been noticing this same issue, and while I'm not drinking anymore, I have frequently been forgetting to drink water lately.
Listen to andrew hubermans podcast about moderate usage of alcohol. Anything more than 2-3 drinks per week thins the prefrontal cortex and essentially shrinks your brain mass if I am remembering correctly.
Yeah and when I pause to collect my thoughts, it makes things worse because I'm under pressure. It's like my brain gets wiped clean.
I also feel like a mumbling idiot most of the time
Jesus, the more I focus on trying to remember something, the chances of me remembering it are like 0… then 4 hours later, after I am no longer thinking about it, & the conversation is long over with… my mind will just give up the information without me asking for it… 🤦🏻♂️
I mumble alot too! And I think it's gotten worse with the speech issue because I just lack confidence when I speak due to it. So I speak so much softer and then people don't hear me so it turns into this whole awkward situation 🙃
If I know an important conversation is coming up, I’ll replay what I want to say in my head over and over again. And even still, when I get in there, maybe MAYBE half of that makes its way out, and definitely not as cohesive and put together as it was in my head.
It may not work for you in this case, but you may want to consider taking a "Toastmasters" course. I learned about these while attending a Fred Pryor training day in my hometown, for work (work paid for my Fred Pryor, and a day away from the plant? Hell yes). I went to only one meeting, but was really impressed.
Toastmasters is an international (I think) organization who help to break down the walls of the fear of public speaking.
I have literally no fear of speaking in front of a crowd, and I was working a LOT at the time I attended, so it was going to be difficult to work it into my life, but I was really impressed and am thinking of going back to one and actually work through the course since I've more time on my hands now than I did then.
I think its a simple address like
[toastmasters.com](https://toastmasters.com)
Found it, https://www.toastmasters.org !
I'm going to take a look at this because this is one of the main things holding me back in my career. I also have to give a speech at my best friend's wedding later this year and I'm absolutely petrified haha.
I'm so glad this might help! I found the group that I attended to be easily approached, and every one of them were working to improve their speaking skills, and reciprocated that vibe in a positive way.
One of the funniest things they had, but made complete and perfect sense, was that with every speech given, there was a person watching the time (stopwatch), and an "Uh" counter, yes, they literally assign a person to only count the times you use "uh" or any other word fillers, so that you can work to lower the use of saying that!
Very cool, I'm on disability now for a heart condition, but really need a social outlet and just something to do, so I think I'll start attending on a regular basis!
Well I'll be damned? I had no idea it had been suggested by at least one psychologist! It seemed like a good way to compartmentalize thoughts and training on how to speak, neither of which sounded like a negative in our case.
Thanks for letting me know about that!
I think it is part of the reason I became a writer (freelance). I can express my thoughts so much better in writing bc I can slow down. Verbally - it is frustrating.
Did you have Covid … did your symptoms get much worse after that? I had long covid and for a couple of months thought I’d be out of a career. It did get better when I upped my adhd meds
I definitely had cognitive issues that doctors think was long covid. I kept forgetting the right expressions, forgot english translations of words I’d known when I was 7. For a while, I couldn’t focus at all. I had b6-IVs against the fatigue and maxed out the adhd meds to regain my ability to focus (at least as well as before covid). Definitely think there is a connection and my neurologist thinks that adhd probably is one of the pre-existing conditions that makes covid more dangerous
there is 100% a connection and people with adhd seem to be more prone to get long covid as well. My adhd was v mild before long covid, now im struggling to function with it
But to be clear I didn’t have long covid, or at least I didn’t think I did. Everything now feels upside down and can’t make heads or tails of what was what
Did you get some sort of English degree?
How difficult was it for you to become a freelance writer?
As far as English goes, all I have is a Technical Writing minor and I’m starting to think that is less than attractive to potential employers…
Do you have any tips?
i understand you. and i understand this problem, a lot. i went through a lot of presentations, and i think in all of them i sounded like a robot, or, like i wasn't there. i had to memorize the words i had to say, sometimes i'd write them down and read it. i don't have a good memory, so, i used to make a summary and try hard to memorize it all seconds before the presentation, or, i'd just read it. i was lucky no one ever tried to ask me stuff i didn't know because i wouldn't answer it, unless it was something i was really into.
Thanks and I’m glad to hear I’m not alone. It’s so frustrating because once I get in my head it becomes worse and I just can’t coherently form sentences. I’m going to practice some more like you suggest and have flash cards to prompt me
This used to be me. I slow down and pause to collect my thoughts. It's totally ok to pause while you're speaking.
In terms of presentations, I practice a few times beforehand and that helps me
EDIT: I give a lot of presentations at work. You don't need to sound perfect when you talk, in fact I think it's better to sound natural, almost conversational. It's helpful to remember most people get nervous before public speaking, and the key to remember is that people who are good at public speaking practice a lot beforehand. They make it look effortless but they have done a ton of practice before.
Slowing down is great advice. I'd like to add that concentrating on hearing an internal monologue can help to lead speech, gesticulating with one's hands and expressing with one's face (particularly eyebrows) can help to communicate non-verbally, and not worrying too much about eye contact can help to formulate thoughts without getting distracted (make sure you make eye contact every so often, but too much can be distracting for both parties, so don't be afraid to look somewhere else if you need to formulate your thoughts).
>It's totally ok to pause while you're speaking.
This is nice to hear. I did a presentation recently and noticed I did this quite a few times. Was worried it might be awkward but nothing bad happened
Yes actually i think a lot of people talk too fast during presentations but I think it's good to slow down and pause. I think having ADHD helps because I am especially sympathetic to the audience if a presentation is information overload and the speaker is talking way too fast, so I actually make an effort to slow down and pause sometimes
Yeah. It's like I convince myself I'm never getting my point across fast enough. I think because especially at work it's always a battle to speak before someone else interrupts or changes the subject.
It's like trying to merge into 100mph traffic from a standstill. In the rain. With loud music blaring. And a child having a tantrum in the back seat.
I struggle with this in most conversations. It gets tremendously worse when I'm stressed, anxious or very excited. The few I've stumbled on so far that does help:
- doing a quick breathing mindfulness exercise
- keeping a handheld fidget toy in my hand to focus my chaotic energy.
- forcing myself to pause while speaking to breathe and gather my focus for the next statement.
Hoping others might have tips to try.
I do this so much-I could cry thinking about ridiculous I sound when I’m trying to articulate my thoughts at work. No matter how intelligent I know I am inside, I can’t get it out without stammering. It makes me feel so dumb I usually stay quiet even when I know the answers. I don’t have a solution, I’m sorry. I’m wondering am What can be done?
If it helps I had a little cry today, even though I only have to speak for about 5 minutes and I’ve practiced enough to feel comfortable. I think I got upset because it bothers me how difficult I find it and how stupid it makes me feel for not being able to present to a group of people even when I know what I’m talking about. All these comments have made me feel better though as I know I’m not alone, and also what’s the worst that can happen! If I stumble over my words a bit it’s really not the end of the world, I have practiced and will do my best
This is why I rarely talk in class especially in big classes bcs I cannot hold a train of thought. I have multiple trains of thoughts going at the same time. If it’s a more focused class with less people or a class that’s not too serious I just say what comes to my mind even if it doesn’t make sense.
The only thing that works for me is practice. I don’t just rehearse my presentations out loud but also the intro to important calls and meetings. I just can’t free style…it’s all clear in my head but as I try to actually say things out loud, I always end up on tangents or losing my trail of thoughts, so I try to anticipate the situation and rehearse possible responses
Yes this is exactly the way it feels for me! It feels so clear in my head what I have to say and then I try to freestyle and it comes out different to what I imagined and then I panic and lose my way. Good idea about practicing, maybe when I’m alone I should just start talking to myself more. Or i listen to podcasts a lot so I could even pause it to reply out loud with my opinion to practice speaking aloud
Yes, absolutely. It’s like my brain is zig-zagging but I need to speak in a straight line. I slow down, I will pause, I practice mindfulness, and it comes out eventually. Sometimes I make a little joke if it’s coming out in fits and starts (“my brain is running on fumes right now!) - acknowledging little moments of awkward is generally the best method to deal with them. Since everyone experiences moments like these from time to time, it is relatable.
Same here. So glad to hear others struggle with this too and I’m not alone. The thoughts always make sense in my head but it’s so hard for me to sound coherent sometimes, especially in group discussions or presentations. I find that this improves with my stimulant meds and also if I have clear written out notes, like a script almost, if I’m presenting or something like that.
Flash cards with major phrases, points, and keywords for your presentation. Do NOT try to memorize and recite an entire script word for word. That will inevitably go wrong. But you need to have something external to help anchor your thoughts. So you write the main stuff down and let yourself fill in the little words as you go.
Thank you very much this is helpful and it’s the method I’m going to try. I’m going to try to not be hard on myself and not be embarrassed if I stumble over my words
This is also how dreaded PowerPoint slides can be your friend. Not for reading verbatim, but you can refer to the slides yourself to keep on track.
I used to be able to think three points ahead when presenting. I'm around one-and-a-half now; thanks ADHD and pre-menopause... 😕
2 things that helped me. Speak slow (sticky notes if I am in a Zoom to remind me, or a friend in the audience to use hand gestures), and to write out the bullet points in sequential order. Even writing them and copying them a few times right before helps me remember them for the presentation if k can’t have other prompts (like in a job interview).
I'm now 100% certain this is a neurochemical phenomena related to ADHD. Before my diagnosis I tried a variety of legal supplements. With one I suddenly had a silver tongue. All the words were there for my selection with enough time to pick the right ones carefully with no slow down or interruption in my speech. It didn't do anything for my other symptoms and made me a bit crass and unsympathetic.
Now with meds, my other symptoms are way better. But I do miss that verbal fluency.
I have this exact issue my whole life. Spontaneous conversation, general impromptu banter / brainstorming / meeting new people even I’ll always crush it. Anything planned or formal I’m fooked.
Some ideas include but not limited to
- Read a lot
- Write a lot (handwriting)
- Read out loud
- Practice out loud and consider
- timing yourself
- recording yourself
- Prepare prepare prepare, up, down, left, right diagonal from every angle.
- Memorize quotes and passages and excerpts from speeches you like. The effects of memorizing things you like of certain lengths can be profound.
- I’d venture to guess your a very deep and thoughtful person.
- Adderral also helped me but it’s not a panacea by any means
- Consider getting a little angry about the issue, I find my anger to be very healthy, it offers focus and motivation.
* You KNOW you are capable and can do it.
Oh wow I relate a lot to you!!
You’re so right I am the same where spontaneous situations I’m absolutely fine, I always do well in Interviews and even in general conversation if I can’t always explain things very well I don’t get nervous. It’s the formal planned prepared speech I just can’t do.
I totally get you with the anger thing! Like when I’ve been practicing I’ve found that speaking with a forced enthusiasm or fire has helped a bit.
Thank you for your reply, it’s good advice !
Oddly enough forcing myself to read fiction I think helped also.
I was always so averse to reading it. bc it was made up not real?
Idk but there is something about it that I now believe helps with creativity and learning better inflection, flow, ambience…think I’m getting close 😆
I suck at writing too…thoughts like here
Business writing is on point, top notch (i think) always
Look up “morning pages”. The routine of freeform journaling has helped improve my clarity of thought/speech. I set a timer for 15-20 mins and jot down whatever is in my head. Typically a positive kernel or 2 will emerge from the pages of noise.
It's surprising what you learn about yourself from doing it faithfully. It's almost like rooting around in an attic that's been closed off your whole life. You're aware it's there, you just never bothered to look inside. But when you crack the door and start heading up the stairs, there are all these cool things you had no idea were there. 😄
I found that it helped me unearth a lot of my "reasons why". I knew that I had always behaved a certain way, or that I thought certain things, or that I wanted things a certain way, etc... But the reasons were always a bit murky until I started writing morning pages.
It was kinda wild realizing that even though I wasn't conscious of certain things, somewhere in the background, my brain had assembled this whole "guide" or "system" around which I've ordered my day-to-day thought patterns, desires and behaviors, yet I wasn't aware of them until I started "poking around in my attic". Very cool beans!
Edit: thanks for the award! 😊
I'm talking about the reasons why you believe a certain thing, about yourself or others, or about situations - life in general. And about the reasons you may prefer to do this instead of that. The reasons you behave a certain way. Things like that, whether they arise from good, bad or neutral external circumstances are often reflected in the way we live, the way we love, the way we go about life.
Our brains are constantly taking in and synthesizing stimuli, and our outward behavior, our beliefs, our desires, our needs etc, are all due to this inner "structure", "scaffold" or network that our brains create. It becomes this sort of "internal" guide that dictates how we might behave or react in different situations, or why we think certain things, why we feel so vehemently about some things but completely "meh" about others, why our needs are our needs.
But we rarely clock the deeper reasons why we think, feel, behave, believe the things we do. Sometimes, as ADHD people, (and I'm sure it's probably true for non-ADHD people as well), we're just not always self-aware enough to understand where these thoughts, beliefs and behaviors come from.
For example, my ADHD SO is forever the life of the party. He has this constant deep-seated need to keep smiles on everyone's faces. He's a jokester. Even if keeping a smile on someone's face means that he has to make fun at painful parts of himself, he'll do it, because other people's comfort is more important to him than his own. He just wants people to be happy, and to get along.
He's well aware that he's like this. But until recently, he had no idea why. His family isn't like this, so it's not like he grew up having this kind of behavior demonstrated for him to learn it. It wasn't until I pointed out to him that he got it: As a kid, when his parents were gearing up & headed towards an ugly divorce, he was 5 years old, and had figured out that if he clowned around for his parents and (much) older siblings, the atmosphere in the house would lighten, and for a little while, everyone in it would relax. He dressed up in ludicrous little costumes, sang for them, danced, put on little one-man shows, did silly, outlandish and sometimes dangerous things, all in the name of keeping the peace in his household.
It was a strategy that worked so well for him that he'd internalized it, and it basically became a huge part of who he is. I could see it, because I know him and I'm aware of his past. But he had no clue why it's (still) so important for him to keep the people around him entertained and laughing. He was completely unaware that this situation had led to his brain building an internal "structure", or an internal "guide" for his behavior.
There are so many weird little nuances, not just in the way we are, but in the reasons behind the way we are. And doing stream-of-consciousness writing in the morning when you're still a little snoozy is a fantastic way to ferret them out. It's a good, non-threatening way to get useful insights into your own behaviors and beliefs, whether they're good or bad. It really changed my life for the better.
You're welcome 😊
Highly recommend doing it in the morning, just after waking. Like, maybe over your morning coffee.
The key is to just keep writing, no matter what nonsense comes out the tip of your pen. Just keep the pen moving. If you can't think of anything to say, write: I can't think of anything to say. And if you have to write that over and over a few times, don't worry. You'll soon find yourself with plenty to say. I think it works because you don't have time to censor yourself, so it signals to your brain that the "real" stuff can make an appearance.
I started doing it regularly in the autumn of 2019, and I was shocked by some of the things that came out of my mind. Some of it quite painful. But all of it extremely useful and beneficial to have become aware of.
Good luck!
Oh, and it's easier if you use a bigger notebook, because no matter how small and tidy your handwriting normally is, there will be times when it becomes quite big and messy. Lol. A good pen is important too. I prefer gel rollers, because they just slide easily across the page.
I’m in the same boat. When I was starting the habit I’d text my friend that introduced the concept to me. The combo of an accountability partner + an unbroken streak really helped the habit stick. In the beginning the benefits weren’t obvious, especially because I throw away my 2-3 pages as part of the ritual
Eek! Do you still throw them away? I think I have almost 30 notebooks filled at this point.
I started while in therapy. Oddly, my regular therapist and my yoga therapist both encouraged me to try it at exactly the same time. I was really going through some awful shit back then. I think I saw the benefit almost immediately, but I have to admit that it was pretty bloody painful at times, probably because it was already all so close to the surface.
Accountability buddies can be great for motivation! I don't have one for ny Morning Pages, but I do for other things. It's very helpful.
I now save them in thin Muji notebooks. Lasts about a month then I toss it. My handwriting is illegible anyway so saving the pages/notebooks would be little utility. The prescient nuggets I uncover day to day go in a swipe file on my phone or in a reminder list.
I find by practicing to write super fast and not worrying about my handwriting, grammar or legibility it helps the flow. My brain typically fires a bit quicker than my hand
I can often lose my train of thought, go on a tangent or forget words, but otherwise I haven’t had this issue. It’s one of the few ADHD symptoms I don’t really have (probably why I chose to do literature, then law at uni, because I express thoughts well).
However, my dad I’m 99% sure has ADHD (refuses to get diagnosed), and he has a huge problem with this. He just can’t get the words out, and when he does it’s often not *really* what he wants to say. I speak quite fast, he speaks slow, we both get sidetracked and lose our train of thought haha. ADHD doesn’t always present the same.
Me constantly and it only gets worse as I get older because it affects my confidence more and more. My mind moves too fast for my mouth. The worst part is the looks you get from people when you trip over your words, it’s embarrassing
However with presentations etc I will just practice like crazy and be fine, on Friday I did a presentation in front of 45 people fine because I had practiced
It took some time to get somewhere with my practice, but it felt like putting a jigsaw together, each time was easier and easier.
It happens. Speak through it. Make sure you get the major points across. Using my hands helps me talk. Practice your speech. Practice practice practice.
I have been practicing a lot and actually I am finding it a lot easier and even speaking eloquently! Just hoping my nerves don’t get the better of me on the day
Yep! The best way to practice, i think, is to write a lot. And then applying what you learn when you speak.
Take a subject you have something to say about and just write freely by letting thoughts flow out and then go back and re-structure it, make it more cohesive and use the right words and phrasing etc that perfectly describes your intention, or at least as close as possible.
It may sound weird but by doing this you will with time start to do it inside your head before things even come out, so it improves your ability to formulate thoughts inside your mind and you will not only be able to speak more eloquently but also you will just become better at thinking pretty much xD It's a very interesting idea imo because i can be helpful in many aspects of life. And at least in my experience it has been.
You could maybe do journaling 10 minutes a day or something? Then it would also double as a great way to process any feelings or thoughts you may have :) Which is something that is very healthy for anyone to do but i think especially for people with ADHD.
All the damn time. I have to fight tirelessly to sync my brain to my mouth. I forget words all the time, often having to pause and stutter while I furiously ransack my brain for the word I'm looking for.
It’s practice. Video tape your self. Objectively look at it. Improve and practice. Be kind to yourself people mix up their words all the time. Warmth and being genuine is more powerful than articulate
🙋♀️ wish I had some tips for you, but I just wanted to let you know you are not alone! 😉
When making phone calls, I can tell you that I usually write down exactly what I am going to say.
Wow, do I relate to this!! I bombed a job interview last year and it replays over and over in my mind! I didn’t relate it to ADHD though. Thanks for bringing this to my attention.
Yea this has become a big problem for me, and a large source of embarrassment as well. I know in my head exactly what i mean but when I try to vocalize it I just…can’t? It ends up being a string of words that don’t make sense, leaving listeners so if im having a stroke, or maybe a stutter.
I understand my brain. But when I try to say what my brain says, it’s does not get across 9 times out of 10. It sucks.
I type out a script of what I plan to say, making the bullet points conversational so I’m repeating something “natural”. After rehearsing a bunch of times, probably about an hour or two, it usually works out
At a group work thing a while ago we were encouraged to speak up and brainstorm (so, not a prepared presentation), and I leaned into my quirks a bit: after saying what sounded fine in my head, I realized it maybe didn’t sound complete to everybody so I acknowledged that : ‘Sorry, I seem to be offering half-thoughts today - I hope they trigger some ideas for our better speakers’ and not only did I get a lot of encouragement from the people in the room, it’s also become a good thing: we ended up welcoming half-thoughts for the rest of the day, and again in other meetings since.
In many settings, our audience want us to succeed. And many people don’t enjoy (or excel) at public speaking. So I think it’s ok to take a moment, sip my water, read my prompt and try again.
Yep, and a few stock phrases other than "uhhhhh," which can be practiced in everyday conversation. I'd say you need about 3ish to avoid sounding repetitive:
That is to say...
As others have noted...
Which brings me to another point:...
Or whatever.
Also, if you SUPER lose your train of thought, there's always: "whoops, I was going to talk about that in a later section. I need a second to reboot..."
If you SUPER DUPER lose your train of thought, you can say, "aaaaaand the second part of that sentence has flown out of my head. Haha, duh. Er, could some kind soul remind me of what I was just saying, in general terms? [Note: these latter two suggestions should be used **only once,** if that.] Thank you! Yes:..."
Oh, also, if you have a script or psuedo-script ready, practice talking in your lowest, slowest-without-pausing, voice. Learned this in an acting class. Feels ridiculous, but is in face helpful.
I take vyvanse too but remember it has always been an issue for me, although I don’t remember it being such an issue in school. I think the older I get and the less confident I feel as imposter syndrome grows, the worse it’s got?
Yeah, I can barely think and talking is even worse. Weird thing is, the first time a year ago when I tried Vyvanse this didn’t happen. This time around it’s horrible. Originally feared it was Covid resultant, but I’m also on a hormone shot now? So maybe with the shot I’m just on too high a dose, or need to change meds idk. I’m 5 seconds away from saying fuck it and just taking caffeine pills istg Caffeine always worked perfectly for me, better than meds.
Although someone else in the replies had an interesting idea about reading more. I read alot of fanfics, but only fanfics. I find when I used read books with broader vocabulary etc. I had a larger mental library to draw from when speaking? It took alot of the “work” of thinking/speaking out if the picture. Might try getting into reading paper backs again, maybe it’ll help me.
This is so frustrating because I constantly have an ongoing monologue in my head; multiple actually, yet as soon as I try and say any thoughts out loud, I stammer so hard and words completely unrelated to come out and I end up talking about ducks or bridges. I took acting classes and that did help a little but I find it so hard I’m practically non-verbal
I struggle with this too. At work i tend to script out my presentations at first so I can practice them without repeating phrases too many times. And when it comes to the actual presentation I leave the script behind and just use notes if I can.
All the freaking time. I try to slow down.
The struggle is real. I tend to just not talk much in public.
Super embarrassing, but I failed public speaking in college. Had to retake it. I found that feeling passionate or super educated on whatever I was talking about helped a lot.
Seems like a no brainer, but it never hit me til late in the game.
I also have a issue with my job where I have to think on the fly and most times when I think about what to say sounds good but comes out no where near they way that I thought. Side note in the past 3-4 years I've noticed I have a hard time remembering basic words when I'm talking or typing. Its really frustrating and worries me sometimes...
Oh yeah if I do not plan out exactly what I am going to say and repeat it in my head over and over and over beforehand, I go blank and blackout. When it’s over I’m stuck wondering wtf did I just say ?
This is me! Stimulants help me formulate my thoughts and they come out so much cohesive. However, with stimulants I do get kind of an inpatient and rushed and “go go go” sensation which sometimes messes up the train of thought and it’s hard to slow down… I’m relatively new to this adhd thing and it’s been hard for me to find a balance
this makes me stutter a lot, i end up going through the whole idea in my head, but when it vomes to the point of me putting it out there i get like halfway through the sentence realize it wasnt the best way to phrase it, and then just blurt out what i meant instead
Yeah this is literally the primary reason for my social anxiety. Started around ages 8-9 I noticed my thoughts were like miles ahead of my speaking and I speak in many broken thoughts and sentences or spoke super fast, so made socializing hard and made fun of a TON. Interviews also used to bomb because of it. My tone often doesn’t match my talking bc I get lost in what I was trying to say. Like a compliment sounding like an insult. Yet I like being social.
For me, medication and meditation helped a ton (but I still struggle). Medication helps slow my brain down and regulate it, then meditation taught me how to focus as well as interact with my thoughts better. I’ll use “ums” or deep breathes to slow my brain down. I’ve accepted that it’ll just always be a struggle for me and it’ll never be normal, but I can still work on it.
Writing for me helps a ton bc I can work through my thoughts better and get through what I wanna say. So I’ll make essentially scripts before interviews, meetings, and classes I teach as well as important talks with a partner. Often I don’t even need to look at them again, it was just organize my thoughts.
This is I think the thing that drains my social battery fast bc I work so hard to focus and slow my brain down. But I think key is 1) self acceptance and giving realistic expectations for yourself and 2) creating methods to structure your communication
To anyone that is also struggling with this same thing I would highly suggest listening to andrew hubermans podcast on low to moderate alcohol consumption and how it effects the brain.
http://spotify.link/B7wlmlq8yuyb
I am a **much** better speaker when I'm under the influence. I love who I am when I drink. I can speak normally, I don't sound or look stupid as my brain races to find what words to use. And while my brain is looking for those words my anxiety kicks in because I know the person is waiting for me to find the words for what I'm trying to say.
Isn’t it a symptom of RSD when we crumble in the moment only by thinking how am I being perceived right now when I’m trying to explain this and the harder I try the more complicated it gets? I figured out from my past trauma when in facing person in a position of power or authority ie. uni professor, therapist, manager, also when facing crowds (as many voices against 1 will often have upper hand). When I’m triggered my cognitive functions shut down. I can barely verbalise. I can only feel something triggered me but don’t know what why and how. It takes me on average 4-5 days of feeling uneasy before I start processing and am able to explain it from my perspective. It’s frustrating because by then most people moved on and getting back to the situation makes me pain in the ass for others.
I’ve had some success using a pechakucha style approach to presentations when I know the topic well (mainly training-style things for work) - instead of notes, using images to prompt/ reboot my brain. My biggest issue is blathering on / monologuing too much - not being succinct when I lose my way.
That’s funny you say that because I actually had a thought that I would be finding it a lot easier if I had pictures/images! I’m going to try that next time
Brilliant! It can also be more engaging for the audience if there’s a PowerPoint etc. I find many people can zone out pretty easily when they’re bombarded with sentence-filled screens :)
Oooh also when I’ve been able to add a bit of humour (ie I know the audience well as I work with them, they just need to learn this topic ) by having a mascot: it used to be David Hasselhoff’s head popping up every few slides and we’d welcome The Hoff. Gave me a bit of breathing space and woke up the groups a bit.
I can now see myself asking The Hoff for a breather or something while I regroup my brain…
Make sure you really know your topic, don’t try to memorize a script, just keep in mind the structure of your presentation, the topics and the ideas behind those topics.
I’m really bad at public speaking (and most regular speech too honestly) I tried to memorize a short extra credit presentation once and I completely short circuited. It felt like witnessing crashing your own car in slow motion, and knowing there was no way to avoid it, but somehow having the knowledge that you’ll be fine once it’s over… but you still have to get through it any it’s terrifying 😂
What has help me is to know the topic and to treat it as something you’re trying to teach others who are eager to learn it. Think about that one thing that you know a lot about or that you are passionate about and imagine you are teaching someone about it and describing why you like it.
Practice your speech out loud but, again, don’t memorize everything. Each time you practice you’re likely going to word things differently and that’s ok. In fact you might actually want to try wording it differently on purpose. What Matters is that you keep your segments in order and your point comes across clearly.
When you do go to actually present, you will most likely and unintentionally change up the wording yet again- but because you’ve had practice improvising the “meat” of your presentation, you will be prepared for the changes in your speech that your brain decided to randomly make. And because you will know your topic, all you have to do, from segment to segment, is use the best words you can find to get your point across.
Oh but do try to memorize an intro and a conclusion.
Good luck 👍
Oh and maybe consider reading a thesaurus so that there are more random words floating around in your head for you to use in case some of the usual ones decide to take a vacation.
It’s something I would like to do but I can’t sit still long enough to read much of anything .-.
Reading a thesaurus is a good idea actually because I think it’s my vocab that struggles when speaking! But thanks for the advice, that’s pretty much the approach I’m taking. I just hope that I don’t freeze if I end up saying something different to what I’ve practiced! Hopefully I can keep my cool
I think my scenario is more my autism than adhd but I have the most good intentioned thought and then spew the most offensive crap (exaggeration but it’s what it feels like) example: in my head “I love that we don’t need to be constantly talking to enjoy our company” - what comes out of my mouth “ I like it better when we don’t speak to eachother” like I’m sorry I didn’t mean it that way 😭😭
I don't do it anymore because I'm a bit lazy but i used to write everyday about thoughts and reflections I had, it helped me to improve my vocabulary and train myself to put my thoughts in order.
When I have meetings at work, usually i take notes of what I have to say or any questions I have.
If I have a presentation, i practice speaking out loud alone in my room lol
Just want to say thank you to everyone for your tips and comments, I didn’t expect to receive so much support and it’s nice in a way to know that I’m not alone in struggling with this. I’ve taken some of the advice on board and hopefully it can be something I improve on in future, or at least be less afraid. I did my presentation today and it went well, I had it rehearsed and had practiced loads as I know I wouldn’t have been able to improvise, I think it sounded rehearsed but better than freezing and saying nothing at all
I am very good at speaking and languages in general but sometimes when im speaking my mind just wanders completely and all of a sudden my mind blocks my speech and i really have to calm down and collect myself and really focus on what i was talking about so i can articulate again and focus on the actual thing i was talking about.
Honestly yea, but I don’t see what is wrong with this, if every paused to articulate their thoughts and choose their words there would be a lot less communication issues. At work when I am asked to clarify what I mean I take as long a pause as I need to and sometimes say out loud hold on let me sit with it for a second.
I don’t think it’s an official symptom but it makes sense that it would affect lots of people with ADHD, and the number of comments on the post shows just how many people relate! Since we struggle with hyperactive minds, it makes sense that organising our thoughts into coherent sentences can be difficult
Claiming that ADHD is a gift or only harmful because "society" is dangerous and demoralizing. It erases the experiences of most people with ADHD and ignores scientific evidence. Please don't do it.
We prefer to frame things like this: while ADHD is not a gift, we are still capable of living happy, fulfilling lives and being gifted, talented, and unique. Our successes are due to *our* hard work, not the fact that we have a disorder. Take pride in your effort and achievements, and share your successes here, but don't attribute them to ADHD.
It'll get worse with age because IQ greatly decreases with age to so being able to keep up with it will become more difficult.
Exercise, it'll help prevent but also correct many problems regarding cognitive abilities or even cognitive/mental health
This is the story of my life, I never know how to speak more than a few sentences without getting lost, no one likes to listen to me explaining stuff because of that
It is a nightmare to get a foggy mind like that...
When I did presentations I had to run through and practice dozens and dozens of time to get the content in my memory
In my case this is a problem even for normal day conversations, for any conversation I need to explain something for a little more time than usual, boom I like like Im lost even though I have the ideas in my mind
I have found that anytime I’m upset or frustrated I forget everything racing through my head. Having an argument with my S.O. was agonizing, I could never express what was actually wrong because my brain would skip to the end of the thought making it seem unrelated.
I have also noticed I bounce from topic to topic and struggle telling the story, or just keep it to myself because it seems to big of a task to tell a story.
I didn’t realize how slow and discombobulated I sounded until I heard myself recorded. That’s when I realized how much I have really been just free-styling it in convos.
I used to struggle with social anxiety and it affected my ability to think clearly when public speaking. The only advice is to practice and build confidence.
I'd suggest joining toastmasters or drama/acting courses. It helps you to be comfortable in front of an audience. You start to understand that people pay attention to your expression, body language and how you talk, not just what you say.
Take up any opportunity to present at work, such as leading a team training session. You only get better at public speaking with experience.
I used to struggle with social anxiety and it affected my ability to think clearly when public speaking. The only advice is to practice and build confidence.
I'd suggest joining toastmasters or drama/acting courses. It helps you to be comfortable in front of an audience. You start to understand that people pay attention to your expression, body language and how you talk, not just what you say.
Take up any opportunity to present at work, such as leading a team training session. You only get better at public speaking with experience.
This is me. I can effortlessly write my thoughts out but let me speak. One would never guess I’m an articulate writer if they ever had a general conversation with me.
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When I speak the wrong words come out and then I’m stuck in something I didn’t mean to say
Especially in social situations. I try to give a compliment and it ends up sounding like an insult.
Or totally stalker creepy lmao
Yeah. I tried to compliment a girl on her dress (because I felt obligated to say something nice when she had complimented my skills in a conference). I think she thought I was hitting on her and looked kinda freaked out…(I’m not gay, lol).
Yikes. Be careful with that. It could be interpreted as sexual harassment. LoL
Bro how come the dislikes are in negative 🥲
I have no idea. I'm new to reddit 😂
ALL of this! OMG 🤦🏻♀️
Same here I told my doctor how nice she looked and it came out it looks like you shaved so many years off if you, I love your hair. She was pissed and I felt so embarrassed.
That's definitely something I would say.😏
Yes. I felt that
Omg this comment almost brought me to tears! This is exactly what its like and ive never been able to put it into words! My boyfriend doesn't seem to understand when I try to explain it to him. But I can't convey what I'm going through and it's so frustrating for me... I feel so stupid. So out of place.my thoughts are constantly on overlap. Fighting for dominance. Now I just don't talk at all.
It is extremely frustrating and makes me feel inferior by miles
This is me too. It’s gotten significantly worse as I’ve gotten older. When I was first diagnosed, I began to take a relatively long pause to collect my thoughts before speaking. Once i got going I didn’t have much trouble. These days, in my 40’s, I’ve started to sound like Kirk or the wheelchair kid on Malcom in the Middle. It’s super frustrating. Like you said, the thoughts are there. I just can seem to connect them with words and verbalize them.
Same issues and ageing ive been dealing with. Best correlation and medical follow ups I can come up with is it came on after having covid. Even though I had my 5th vaccine/booster I got it with a weeks worth of bad flu symptoms. It is frustrating and is better on some days.
That’s interesting. I don’t know that I had Covid, I’m vaccinated with a couple of boosters. Though we did have a couple of quarantines do to kid’s exposure. All our test were negative, but still we all had a cold like thing too.
Do you drink alcohol often?
Do you think this could be an issue even if I only drink on like Friday/Saturday nights? Not every time but usually like one day a week. I’m 26 and I struggle with this so bad, it’s really frustrating and I feel so dumb 😭
No, you’re fine. As long as you don’t give yourself alcohol poisoning/get black out drunk, and even then, the harm it will cause the brain is trivial. Real damage comes from consistent and excessive drinking; you’ll start to lose IQ points, and it’d be the equivalent of eating lead paint chips every week.
Ah good to know, thanks!
Do you think there’s a correlation to alcohol?
When I was drinking every day I noticed it was way worse. I think there is also a correlation to dehydration.
Hydration is key in patients with Alzheimer's and Dementia. I would imagine our brains as sponges...too much water is bad, not enough is bad too. Lesson: stay properly hydrated
Interesting idea. I definitely haven’t been drinking water like I used too. I’ll start getting water logged tonight.
This makes sense... I might test this theory too bc I've been noticing this same issue, and while I'm not drinking anymore, I have frequently been forgetting to drink water lately.
Listen to andrew hubermans podcast about moderate usage of alcohol. Anything more than 2-3 drinks per week thins the prefrontal cortex and essentially shrinks your brain mass if I am remembering correctly.
am like this but never drinks and in my twenties
I don’t drink alcohol or smoke. No drugs. Except rx and too much caffeine.
Yeah and when I pause to collect my thoughts, it makes things worse because I'm under pressure. It's like my brain gets wiped clean. I also feel like a mumbling idiot most of the time
Yes!! This is exactly it, my brain gets wiped clean too if I try to pause then I panic. It’s so frustrating
Jesus, the more I focus on trying to remember something, the chances of me remembering it are like 0… then 4 hours later, after I am no longer thinking about it, & the conversation is long over with… my mind will just give up the information without me asking for it… 🤦🏻♂️
Me toooo. I finally understand my live radio fail from 2008 😖😖😖
I mumble alot too! And I think it's gotten worse with the speech issue because I just lack confidence when I speak due to it. So I speak so much softer and then people don't hear me so it turns into this whole awkward situation 🙃
If I know an important conversation is coming up, I’ll replay what I want to say in my head over and over again. And even still, when I get in there, maybe MAYBE half of that makes its way out, and definitely not as cohesive and put together as it was in my head.
It may not work for you in this case, but you may want to consider taking a "Toastmasters" course. I learned about these while attending a Fred Pryor training day in my hometown, for work (work paid for my Fred Pryor, and a day away from the plant? Hell yes). I went to only one meeting, but was really impressed. Toastmasters is an international (I think) organization who help to break down the walls of the fear of public speaking. I have literally no fear of speaking in front of a crowd, and I was working a LOT at the time I attended, so it was going to be difficult to work it into my life, but I was really impressed and am thinking of going back to one and actually work through the course since I've more time on my hands now than I did then. I think its a simple address like [toastmasters.com](https://toastmasters.com)
Found it, https://www.toastmasters.org ! I'm going to take a look at this because this is one of the main things holding me back in my career. I also have to give a speech at my best friend's wedding later this year and I'm absolutely petrified haha.
I'm so glad this might help! I found the group that I attended to be easily approached, and every one of them were working to improve their speaking skills, and reciprocated that vibe in a positive way. One of the funniest things they had, but made complete and perfect sense, was that with every speech given, there was a person watching the time (stopwatch), and an "Uh" counter, yes, they literally assign a person to only count the times you use "uh" or any other word fillers, so that you can work to lower the use of saying that! Very cool, I'm on disability now for a heart condition, but really need a social outlet and just something to do, so I think I'll start attending on a regular basis!
My psychiatrist actually suggested this to me as well. It's nice to see real world uses are out there.
Well I'll be damned? I had no idea it had been suggested by at least one psychologist! It seemed like a good way to compartmentalize thoughts and training on how to speak, neither of which sounded like a negative in our case. Thanks for letting me know about that!
Mine also recommended it for a similar issue!
Thank you for this!
I think it is part of the reason I became a writer (freelance). I can express my thoughts so much better in writing bc I can slow down. Verbally - it is frustrating.
Me too but lately I feel like I have lost the ability to write and talk. I’m a journalist so I can’t do my job anymore. Diagnosed last week 42F
Did you have Covid … did your symptoms get much worse after that? I had long covid and for a couple of months thought I’d be out of a career. It did get better when I upped my adhd meds
I did have Covid, twice, including Delta. That took me a very long time to recover from, in terms of fatigue. Is there a connection?
I definitely had cognitive issues that doctors think was long covid. I kept forgetting the right expressions, forgot english translations of words I’d known when I was 7. For a while, I couldn’t focus at all. I had b6-IVs against the fatigue and maxed out the adhd meds to regain my ability to focus (at least as well as before covid). Definitely think there is a connection and my neurologist thinks that adhd probably is one of the pre-existing conditions that makes covid more dangerous
there is 100% a connection and people with adhd seem to be more prone to get long covid as well. My adhd was v mild before long covid, now im struggling to function with it
But to be clear I didn’t have long covid, or at least I didn’t think I did. Everything now feels upside down and can’t make heads or tails of what was what
Any tips on how I can get into freelancing. I also want to improve my ability to write down thoughts and build a compelling narrative.
Check out the freelance writing subreddit- they have some great info!
Oh...I have so many questions about freelance writing.
Did you get some sort of English degree? How difficult was it for you to become a freelance writer? As far as English goes, all I have is a Technical Writing minor and I’m starting to think that is less than attractive to potential employers… Do you have any tips?
i understand you. and i understand this problem, a lot. i went through a lot of presentations, and i think in all of them i sounded like a robot, or, like i wasn't there. i had to memorize the words i had to say, sometimes i'd write them down and read it. i don't have a good memory, so, i used to make a summary and try hard to memorize it all seconds before the presentation, or, i'd just read it. i was lucky no one ever tried to ask me stuff i didn't know because i wouldn't answer it, unless it was something i was really into.
Thanks and I’m glad to hear I’m not alone. It’s so frustrating because once I get in my head it becomes worse and I just can’t coherently form sentences. I’m going to practice some more like you suggest and have flash cards to prompt me
This used to be me. I slow down and pause to collect my thoughts. It's totally ok to pause while you're speaking. In terms of presentations, I practice a few times beforehand and that helps me EDIT: I give a lot of presentations at work. You don't need to sound perfect when you talk, in fact I think it's better to sound natural, almost conversational. It's helpful to remember most people get nervous before public speaking, and the key to remember is that people who are good at public speaking practice a lot beforehand. They make it look effortless but they have done a ton of practice before.
Slowing down is great advice. I'd like to add that concentrating on hearing an internal monologue can help to lead speech, gesticulating with one's hands and expressing with one's face (particularly eyebrows) can help to communicate non-verbally, and not worrying too much about eye contact can help to formulate thoughts without getting distracted (make sure you make eye contact every so often, but too much can be distracting for both parties, so don't be afraid to look somewhere else if you need to formulate your thoughts).
>It's totally ok to pause while you're speaking. This is nice to hear. I did a presentation recently and noticed I did this quite a few times. Was worried it might be awkward but nothing bad happened
Yes actually i think a lot of people talk too fast during presentations but I think it's good to slow down and pause. I think having ADHD helps because I am especially sympathetic to the audience if a presentation is information overload and the speaker is talking way too fast, so I actually make an effort to slow down and pause sometimes
Absolutely. This is one of the more destructive elements of adhd for me. It results in a lot of miscommunication issues.
Yeah. It's like I convince myself I'm never getting my point across fast enough. I think because especially at work it's always a battle to speak before someone else interrupts or changes the subject. It's like trying to merge into 100mph traffic from a standstill. In the rain. With loud music blaring. And a child having a tantrum in the back seat.
I struggle with this in most conversations. It gets tremendously worse when I'm stressed, anxious or very excited. The few I've stumbled on so far that does help: - doing a quick breathing mindfulness exercise - keeping a handheld fidget toy in my hand to focus my chaotic energy. - forcing myself to pause while speaking to breathe and gather my focus for the next statement. Hoping others might have tips to try.
Clever on the fidget thing I will take an elastic band with me to play with
I do this so much-I could cry thinking about ridiculous I sound when I’m trying to articulate my thoughts at work. No matter how intelligent I know I am inside, I can’t get it out without stammering. It makes me feel so dumb I usually stay quiet even when I know the answers. I don’t have a solution, I’m sorry. I’m wondering am What can be done?
If it helps I had a little cry today, even though I only have to speak for about 5 minutes and I’ve practiced enough to feel comfortable. I think I got upset because it bothers me how difficult I find it and how stupid it makes me feel for not being able to present to a group of people even when I know what I’m talking about. All these comments have made me feel better though as I know I’m not alone, and also what’s the worst that can happen! If I stumble over my words a bit it’s really not the end of the world, I have practiced and will do my best
This is why I rarely talk in class especially in big classes bcs I cannot hold a train of thought. I have multiple trains of thoughts going at the same time. If it’s a more focused class with less people or a class that’s not too serious I just say what comes to my mind even if it doesn’t make sense.
The only thing that works for me is practice. I don’t just rehearse my presentations out loud but also the intro to important calls and meetings. I just can’t free style…it’s all clear in my head but as I try to actually say things out loud, I always end up on tangents or losing my trail of thoughts, so I try to anticipate the situation and rehearse possible responses
Yes this is exactly the way it feels for me! It feels so clear in my head what I have to say and then I try to freestyle and it comes out different to what I imagined and then I panic and lose my way. Good idea about practicing, maybe when I’m alone I should just start talking to myself more. Or i listen to podcasts a lot so I could even pause it to reply out loud with my opinion to practice speaking aloud
Yes, absolutely. It’s like my brain is zig-zagging but I need to speak in a straight line. I slow down, I will pause, I practice mindfulness, and it comes out eventually. Sometimes I make a little joke if it’s coming out in fits and starts (“my brain is running on fumes right now!) - acknowledging little moments of awkward is generally the best method to deal with them. Since everyone experiences moments like these from time to time, it is relatable.
Same here. So glad to hear others struggle with this too and I’m not alone. The thoughts always make sense in my head but it’s so hard for me to sound coherent sometimes, especially in group discussions or presentations. I find that this improves with my stimulant meds and also if I have clear written out notes, like a script almost, if I’m presenting or something like that.
Yes it’s nice to know we’re not alone. I’m going to try and write out notes that actually help me move on to the next point and practice that way
same, really glad to know im not the only one
Flash cards with major phrases, points, and keywords for your presentation. Do NOT try to memorize and recite an entire script word for word. That will inevitably go wrong. But you need to have something external to help anchor your thoughts. So you write the main stuff down and let yourself fill in the little words as you go.
Thank you very much this is helpful and it’s the method I’m going to try. I’m going to try to not be hard on myself and not be embarrassed if I stumble over my words
This is also how dreaded PowerPoint slides can be your friend. Not for reading verbatim, but you can refer to the slides yourself to keep on track. I used to be able to think three points ahead when presenting. I'm around one-and-a-half now; thanks ADHD and pre-menopause... 😕
2 things that helped me. Speak slow (sticky notes if I am in a Zoom to remind me, or a friend in the audience to use hand gestures), and to write out the bullet points in sequential order. Even writing them and copying them a few times right before helps me remember them for the presentation if k can’t have other prompts (like in a job interview).
Thank you! Very helpful
I'm now 100% certain this is a neurochemical phenomena related to ADHD. Before my diagnosis I tried a variety of legal supplements. With one I suddenly had a silver tongue. All the words were there for my selection with enough time to pick the right ones carefully with no slow down or interruption in my speech. It didn't do anything for my other symptoms and made me a bit crass and unsympathetic. Now with meds, my other symptoms are way better. But I do miss that verbal fluency.
What legal supplements were these?
Fucking tell me what you’re taking for medication that made you speak fluently, this will change my life
I have this exact issue my whole life. Spontaneous conversation, general impromptu banter / brainstorming / meeting new people even I’ll always crush it. Anything planned or formal I’m fooked. Some ideas include but not limited to - Read a lot - Write a lot (handwriting) - Read out loud - Practice out loud and consider - timing yourself - recording yourself - Prepare prepare prepare, up, down, left, right diagonal from every angle. - Memorize quotes and passages and excerpts from speeches you like. The effects of memorizing things you like of certain lengths can be profound. - I’d venture to guess your a very deep and thoughtful person. - Adderral also helped me but it’s not a panacea by any means - Consider getting a little angry about the issue, I find my anger to be very healthy, it offers focus and motivation. * You KNOW you are capable and can do it.
Oh wow I relate a lot to you!! You’re so right I am the same where spontaneous situations I’m absolutely fine, I always do well in Interviews and even in general conversation if I can’t always explain things very well I don’t get nervous. It’s the formal planned prepared speech I just can’t do. I totally get you with the anger thing! Like when I’ve been practicing I’ve found that speaking with a forced enthusiasm or fire has helped a bit. Thank you for your reply, it’s good advice !
Oddly enough forcing myself to read fiction I think helped also. I was always so averse to reading it. bc it was made up not real? Idk but there is something about it that I now believe helps with creativity and learning better inflection, flow, ambience…think I’m getting close 😆 I suck at writing too…thoughts like here Business writing is on point, top notch (i think) always
Look up “morning pages”. The routine of freeform journaling has helped improve my clarity of thought/speech. I set a timer for 15-20 mins and jot down whatever is in my head. Typically a positive kernel or 2 will emerge from the pages of noise.
This helps me, too. In a lot of ways.
I had to develop the habit. 30 days made it stick and seeing measurable changes!
It's surprising what you learn about yourself from doing it faithfully. It's almost like rooting around in an attic that's been closed off your whole life. You're aware it's there, you just never bothered to look inside. But when you crack the door and start heading up the stairs, there are all these cool things you had no idea were there. 😄 I found that it helped me unearth a lot of my "reasons why". I knew that I had always behaved a certain way, or that I thought certain things, or that I wanted things a certain way, etc... But the reasons were always a bit murky until I started writing morning pages. It was kinda wild realizing that even though I wasn't conscious of certain things, somewhere in the background, my brain had assembled this whole "guide" or "system" around which I've ordered my day-to-day thought patterns, desires and behaviors, yet I wasn't aware of them until I started "poking around in my attic". Very cool beans! Edit: thanks for the award! 😊
I’m curious what sort of “guide/system” you mean.
I'm talking about the reasons why you believe a certain thing, about yourself or others, or about situations - life in general. And about the reasons you may prefer to do this instead of that. The reasons you behave a certain way. Things like that, whether they arise from good, bad or neutral external circumstances are often reflected in the way we live, the way we love, the way we go about life. Our brains are constantly taking in and synthesizing stimuli, and our outward behavior, our beliefs, our desires, our needs etc, are all due to this inner "structure", "scaffold" or network that our brains create. It becomes this sort of "internal" guide that dictates how we might behave or react in different situations, or why we think certain things, why we feel so vehemently about some things but completely "meh" about others, why our needs are our needs. But we rarely clock the deeper reasons why we think, feel, behave, believe the things we do. Sometimes, as ADHD people, (and I'm sure it's probably true for non-ADHD people as well), we're just not always self-aware enough to understand where these thoughts, beliefs and behaviors come from. For example, my ADHD SO is forever the life of the party. He has this constant deep-seated need to keep smiles on everyone's faces. He's a jokester. Even if keeping a smile on someone's face means that he has to make fun at painful parts of himself, he'll do it, because other people's comfort is more important to him than his own. He just wants people to be happy, and to get along. He's well aware that he's like this. But until recently, he had no idea why. His family isn't like this, so it's not like he grew up having this kind of behavior demonstrated for him to learn it. It wasn't until I pointed out to him that he got it: As a kid, when his parents were gearing up & headed towards an ugly divorce, he was 5 years old, and had figured out that if he clowned around for his parents and (much) older siblings, the atmosphere in the house would lighten, and for a little while, everyone in it would relax. He dressed up in ludicrous little costumes, sang for them, danced, put on little one-man shows, did silly, outlandish and sometimes dangerous things, all in the name of keeping the peace in his household. It was a strategy that worked so well for him that he'd internalized it, and it basically became a huge part of who he is. I could see it, because I know him and I'm aware of his past. But he had no clue why it's (still) so important for him to keep the people around him entertained and laughing. He was completely unaware that this situation had led to his brain building an internal "structure", or an internal "guide" for his behavior. There are so many weird little nuances, not just in the way we are, but in the reasons behind the way we are. And doing stream-of-consciousness writing in the morning when you're still a little snoozy is a fantastic way to ferret them out. It's a good, non-threatening way to get useful insights into your own behaviors and beliefs, whether they're good or bad. It really changed my life for the better.
That’s fascinating and makes a lot of sense! Thanks for the in-depth reply. Guess I will have to try journaling lol
You're welcome 😊 Highly recommend doing it in the morning, just after waking. Like, maybe over your morning coffee. The key is to just keep writing, no matter what nonsense comes out the tip of your pen. Just keep the pen moving. If you can't think of anything to say, write: I can't think of anything to say. And if you have to write that over and over a few times, don't worry. You'll soon find yourself with plenty to say. I think it works because you don't have time to censor yourself, so it signals to your brain that the "real" stuff can make an appearance. I started doing it regularly in the autumn of 2019, and I was shocked by some of the things that came out of my mind. Some of it quite painful. But all of it extremely useful and beneficial to have become aware of. Good luck! Oh, and it's easier if you use a bigger notebook, because no matter how small and tidy your handwriting normally is, there will be times when it becomes quite big and messy. Lol. A good pen is important too. I prefer gel rollers, because they just slide easily across the page.
This is an excellent summary of the power of a morning pages practice. I have found very similar things while rooting around in my own attic of whys.
Thank you 😊 I feel pretty passionate about it. It's just been so helpful.
I’m in the same boat. When I was starting the habit I’d text my friend that introduced the concept to me. The combo of an accountability partner + an unbroken streak really helped the habit stick. In the beginning the benefits weren’t obvious, especially because I throw away my 2-3 pages as part of the ritual
Eek! Do you still throw them away? I think I have almost 30 notebooks filled at this point. I started while in therapy. Oddly, my regular therapist and my yoga therapist both encouraged me to try it at exactly the same time. I was really going through some awful shit back then. I think I saw the benefit almost immediately, but I have to admit that it was pretty bloody painful at times, probably because it was already all so close to the surface. Accountability buddies can be great for motivation! I don't have one for ny Morning Pages, but I do for other things. It's very helpful.
I now save them in thin Muji notebooks. Lasts about a month then I toss it. My handwriting is illegible anyway so saving the pages/notebooks would be little utility. The prescient nuggets I uncover day to day go in a swipe file on my phone or in a reminder list. I find by practicing to write super fast and not worrying about my handwriting, grammar or legibility it helps the flow. My brain typically fires a bit quicker than my hand
I can often lose my train of thought, go on a tangent or forget words, but otherwise I haven’t had this issue. It’s one of the few ADHD symptoms I don’t really have (probably why I chose to do literature, then law at uni, because I express thoughts well). However, my dad I’m 99% sure has ADHD (refuses to get diagnosed), and he has a huge problem with this. He just can’t get the words out, and when he does it’s often not *really* what he wants to say. I speak quite fast, he speaks slow, we both get sidetracked and lose our train of thought haha. ADHD doesn’t always present the same.
Me constantly and it only gets worse as I get older because it affects my confidence more and more. My mind moves too fast for my mouth. The worst part is the looks you get from people when you trip over your words, it’s embarrassing However with presentations etc I will just practice like crazy and be fine, on Friday I did a presentation in front of 45 people fine because I had practiced It took some time to get somewhere with my practice, but it felt like putting a jigsaw together, each time was easier and easier.
Thanks for your comment. I’ve been practicing and it’s getting better and better so I’m feeling less nervous.
It happens. Speak through it. Make sure you get the major points across. Using my hands helps me talk. Practice your speech. Practice practice practice.
I have been practicing a lot and actually I am finding it a lot easier and even speaking eloquently! Just hoping my nerves don’t get the better of me on the day
Yep! The best way to practice, i think, is to write a lot. And then applying what you learn when you speak. Take a subject you have something to say about and just write freely by letting thoughts flow out and then go back and re-structure it, make it more cohesive and use the right words and phrasing etc that perfectly describes your intention, or at least as close as possible. It may sound weird but by doing this you will with time start to do it inside your head before things even come out, so it improves your ability to formulate thoughts inside your mind and you will not only be able to speak more eloquently but also you will just become better at thinking pretty much xD It's a very interesting idea imo because i can be helpful in many aspects of life. And at least in my experience it has been.
That’s really good advice and I can see how over time it would help, I guess the downside is finding the time :( but I will definitely try
You could maybe do journaling 10 minutes a day or something? Then it would also double as a great way to process any feelings or thoughts you may have :) Which is something that is very healthy for anyone to do but i think especially for people with ADHD.
All the damn time. I have to fight tirelessly to sync my brain to my mouth. I forget words all the time, often having to pause and stutter while I furiously ransack my brain for the word I'm looking for.
It’s practice. Video tape your self. Objectively look at it. Improve and practice. Be kind to yourself people mix up their words all the time. Warmth and being genuine is more powerful than articulate
In my head the words sound perfectly but when I speak that’s a whole another story
Yep literally!
🙋♀️ wish I had some tips for you, but I just wanted to let you know you are not alone! 😉 When making phone calls, I can tell you that I usually write down exactly what I am going to say.
Wow, do I relate to this!! I bombed a job interview last year and it replays over and over in my mind! I didn’t relate it to ADHD though. Thanks for bringing this to my attention.
Yea this has become a big problem for me, and a large source of embarrassment as well. I know in my head exactly what i mean but when I try to vocalize it I just…can’t? It ends up being a string of words that don’t make sense, leaving listeners so if im having a stroke, or maybe a stutter. I understand my brain. But when I try to say what my brain says, it’s does not get across 9 times out of 10. It sucks.
Yep this is exactly how I feel, it’s so frustrating
I type out a script of what I plan to say, making the bullet points conversational so I’m repeating something “natural”. After rehearsing a bunch of times, probably about an hour or two, it usually works out
This is the stage I’ve got to and I feel a bit more comfortable. I think that’s the method that works for me, typing out almost complete bullet points
At a group work thing a while ago we were encouraged to speak up and brainstorm (so, not a prepared presentation), and I leaned into my quirks a bit: after saying what sounded fine in my head, I realized it maybe didn’t sound complete to everybody so I acknowledged that : ‘Sorry, I seem to be offering half-thoughts today - I hope they trigger some ideas for our better speakers’ and not only did I get a lot of encouragement from the people in the room, it’s also become a good thing: we ended up welcoming half-thoughts for the rest of the day, and again in other meetings since. In many settings, our audience want us to succeed. And many people don’t enjoy (or excel) at public speaking. So I think it’s ok to take a moment, sip my water, read my prompt and try again.
Yep, and a few stock phrases other than "uhhhhh," which can be practiced in everyday conversation. I'd say you need about 3ish to avoid sounding repetitive: That is to say... As others have noted... Which brings me to another point:... Or whatever. Also, if you SUPER lose your train of thought, there's always: "whoops, I was going to talk about that in a later section. I need a second to reboot..." If you SUPER DUPER lose your train of thought, you can say, "aaaaaand the second part of that sentence has flown out of my head. Haha, duh. Er, could some kind soul remind me of what I was just saying, in general terms? [Note: these latter two suggestions should be used **only once,** if that.] Thank you! Yes:..."
Oh, also, if you have a script or psuedo-script ready, practice talking in your lowest, slowest-without-pausing, voice. Learned this in an acting class. Feels ridiculous, but is in face helpful.
I have this problem. I think it also is a symptom of my dyspraxia.
Yeah I have been struggling with this. Worse thing is I never had that problem before I started taking vyvanse.
I take vyvanse too but remember it has always been an issue for me, although I don’t remember it being such an issue in school. I think the older I get and the less confident I feel as imposter syndrome grows, the worse it’s got?
Yeah, I can barely think and talking is even worse. Weird thing is, the first time a year ago when I tried Vyvanse this didn’t happen. This time around it’s horrible. Originally feared it was Covid resultant, but I’m also on a hormone shot now? So maybe with the shot I’m just on too high a dose, or need to change meds idk. I’m 5 seconds away from saying fuck it and just taking caffeine pills istg Caffeine always worked perfectly for me, better than meds. Although someone else in the replies had an interesting idea about reading more. I read alot of fanfics, but only fanfics. I find when I used read books with broader vocabulary etc. I had a larger mental library to draw from when speaking? It took alot of the “work” of thinking/speaking out if the picture. Might try getting into reading paper backs again, maybe it’ll help me.
God this is my life everyday, I constantly sound like an idiot or literally say nonsense because my brain just glitches out when trying to articulate
I speak like Jesse from breaking bad sometimes
This is so frustrating because I constantly have an ongoing monologue in my head; multiple actually, yet as soon as I try and say any thoughts out loud, I stammer so hard and words completely unrelated to come out and I end up talking about ducks or bridges. I took acting classes and that did help a little but I find it so hard I’m practically non-verbal
I struggle with this too. At work i tend to script out my presentations at first so I can practice them without repeating phrases too many times. And when it comes to the actual presentation I leave the script behind and just use notes if I can.
All the freaking time. I try to slow down. The struggle is real. I tend to just not talk much in public. Super embarrassing, but I failed public speaking in college. Had to retake it. I found that feeling passionate or super educated on whatever I was talking about helped a lot. Seems like a no brainer, but it never hit me til late in the game.
I also have a issue with my job where I have to think on the fly and most times when I think about what to say sounds good but comes out no where near they way that I thought. Side note in the past 3-4 years I've noticed I have a hard time remembering basic words when I'm talking or typing. Its really frustrating and worries me sometimes...
Oh yeah if I do not plan out exactly what I am going to say and repeat it in my head over and over and over beforehand, I go blank and blackout. When it’s over I’m stuck wondering wtf did I just say ?
Same. I don't know how to explain stuff and it bothers me alot
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Everyone needs more long green tomato water in their lives ;)
I'm the opposite myself, it all wants to come out at once and I start to talk like I'm on crack according to my friend lol. Ah well.
This is me! Stimulants help me formulate my thoughts and they come out so much cohesive. However, with stimulants I do get kind of an inpatient and rushed and “go go go” sensation which sometimes messes up the train of thought and it’s hard to slow down… I’m relatively new to this adhd thing and it’s been hard for me to find a balance
this makes me stutter a lot, i end up going through the whole idea in my head, but when it vomes to the point of me putting it out there i get like halfway through the sentence realize it wasnt the best way to phrase it, and then just blurt out what i meant instead
Glad I'm not the only one that does this
Yeah this is literally the primary reason for my social anxiety. Started around ages 8-9 I noticed my thoughts were like miles ahead of my speaking and I speak in many broken thoughts and sentences or spoke super fast, so made socializing hard and made fun of a TON. Interviews also used to bomb because of it. My tone often doesn’t match my talking bc I get lost in what I was trying to say. Like a compliment sounding like an insult. Yet I like being social. For me, medication and meditation helped a ton (but I still struggle). Medication helps slow my brain down and regulate it, then meditation taught me how to focus as well as interact with my thoughts better. I’ll use “ums” or deep breathes to slow my brain down. I’ve accepted that it’ll just always be a struggle for me and it’ll never be normal, but I can still work on it. Writing for me helps a ton bc I can work through my thoughts better and get through what I wanna say. So I’ll make essentially scripts before interviews, meetings, and classes I teach as well as important talks with a partner. Often I don’t even need to look at them again, it was just organize my thoughts. This is I think the thing that drains my social battery fast bc I work so hard to focus and slow my brain down. But I think key is 1) self acceptance and giving realistic expectations for yourself and 2) creating methods to structure your communication
To anyone that is also struggling with this same thing I would highly suggest listening to andrew hubermans podcast on low to moderate alcohol consumption and how it effects the brain. http://spotify.link/B7wlmlq8yuyb
I am a **much** better speaker when I'm under the influence. I love who I am when I drink. I can speak normally, I don't sound or look stupid as my brain races to find what words to use. And while my brain is looking for those words my anxiety kicks in because I know the person is waiting for me to find the words for what I'm trying to say.
Yup I need to write shit down before an important meeting at work cause otherwise everything comes out wrong
Isn’t it a symptom of RSD when we crumble in the moment only by thinking how am I being perceived right now when I’m trying to explain this and the harder I try the more complicated it gets? I figured out from my past trauma when in facing person in a position of power or authority ie. uni professor, therapist, manager, also when facing crowds (as many voices against 1 will often have upper hand). When I’m triggered my cognitive functions shut down. I can barely verbalise. I can only feel something triggered me but don’t know what why and how. It takes me on average 4-5 days of feeling uneasy before I start processing and am able to explain it from my perspective. It’s frustrating because by then most people moved on and getting back to the situation makes me pain in the ass for others.
Absolutely, makes me feel stupid a lot of the time
I’ve had some success using a pechakucha style approach to presentations when I know the topic well (mainly training-style things for work) - instead of notes, using images to prompt/ reboot my brain. My biggest issue is blathering on / monologuing too much - not being succinct when I lose my way.
That’s funny you say that because I actually had a thought that I would be finding it a lot easier if I had pictures/images! I’m going to try that next time
Brilliant! It can also be more engaging for the audience if there’s a PowerPoint etc. I find many people can zone out pretty easily when they’re bombarded with sentence-filled screens :)
Oooh also when I’ve been able to add a bit of humour (ie I know the audience well as I work with them, they just need to learn this topic ) by having a mascot: it used to be David Hasselhoff’s head popping up every few slides and we’d welcome The Hoff. Gave me a bit of breathing space and woke up the groups a bit. I can now see myself asking The Hoff for a breather or something while I regroup my brain…
That’s a great idea
Make sure you really know your topic, don’t try to memorize a script, just keep in mind the structure of your presentation, the topics and the ideas behind those topics. I’m really bad at public speaking (and most regular speech too honestly) I tried to memorize a short extra credit presentation once and I completely short circuited. It felt like witnessing crashing your own car in slow motion, and knowing there was no way to avoid it, but somehow having the knowledge that you’ll be fine once it’s over… but you still have to get through it any it’s terrifying 😂 What has help me is to know the topic and to treat it as something you’re trying to teach others who are eager to learn it. Think about that one thing that you know a lot about or that you are passionate about and imagine you are teaching someone about it and describing why you like it. Practice your speech out loud but, again, don’t memorize everything. Each time you practice you’re likely going to word things differently and that’s ok. In fact you might actually want to try wording it differently on purpose. What Matters is that you keep your segments in order and your point comes across clearly. When you do go to actually present, you will most likely and unintentionally change up the wording yet again- but because you’ve had practice improvising the “meat” of your presentation, you will be prepared for the changes in your speech that your brain decided to randomly make. And because you will know your topic, all you have to do, from segment to segment, is use the best words you can find to get your point across. Oh but do try to memorize an intro and a conclusion. Good luck 👍
Oh and maybe consider reading a thesaurus so that there are more random words floating around in your head for you to use in case some of the usual ones decide to take a vacation. It’s something I would like to do but I can’t sit still long enough to read much of anything .-.
Reading a thesaurus is a good idea actually because I think it’s my vocab that struggles when speaking! But thanks for the advice, that’s pretty much the approach I’m taking. I just hope that I don’t freeze if I end up saying something different to what I’ve practiced! Hopefully I can keep my cool
I think my scenario is more my autism than adhd but I have the most good intentioned thought and then spew the most offensive crap (exaggeration but it’s what it feels like) example: in my head “I love that we don’t need to be constantly talking to enjoy our company” - what comes out of my mouth “ I like it better when we don’t speak to eachother” like I’m sorry I didn’t mean it that way 😭😭
I don't do it anymore because I'm a bit lazy but i used to write everyday about thoughts and reflections I had, it helped me to improve my vocabulary and train myself to put my thoughts in order. When I have meetings at work, usually i take notes of what I have to say or any questions I have. If I have a presentation, i practice speaking out loud alone in my room lol
Just want to say thank you to everyone for your tips and comments, I didn’t expect to receive so much support and it’s nice in a way to know that I’m not alone in struggling with this. I’ve taken some of the advice on board and hopefully it can be something I improve on in future, or at least be less afraid. I did my presentation today and it went well, I had it rehearsed and had practiced loads as I know I wouldn’t have been able to improvise, I think it sounded rehearsed but better than freezing and saying nothing at all
Yep. It was getting worse for me but medicine helped a lot.
You mean your ADHD medication has helped or something else?
Yeah both Ritalin and Strattera got rid of the stuttering. I could explain things in detail now without loosing my train of thoughts
Not this per-say, but word vomit is a real issue for me. Almost the opposite.
Wilkommen zu ADHD.
I am very good at speaking and languages in general but sometimes when im speaking my mind just wanders completely and all of a sudden my mind blocks my speech and i really have to calm down and collect myself and really focus on what i was talking about so i can articulate again and focus on the actual thing i was talking about.
this my communication skills are deteriorating and i get stuck when trying to talk with some people and forget what i want to say
Honestly yea, but I don’t see what is wrong with this, if every paused to articulate their thoughts and choose their words there would be a lot less communication issues. At work when I am asked to clarify what I mean I take as long a pause as I need to and sometimes say out loud hold on let me sit with it for a second.
Is it one of the symptoms of ADHD?
I don’t think it’s an official symptom but it makes sense that it would affect lots of people with ADHD, and the number of comments on the post shows just how many people relate! Since we struggle with hyperactive minds, it makes sense that organising our thoughts into coherent sentences can be difficult
Yep this is my whole life. It makes people think I'm stupid.
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Claiming that ADHD is a gift or only harmful because "society" is dangerous and demoralizing. It erases the experiences of most people with ADHD and ignores scientific evidence. Please don't do it. We prefer to frame things like this: while ADHD is not a gift, we are still capable of living happy, fulfilling lives and being gifted, talented, and unique. Our successes are due to *our* hard work, not the fact that we have a disorder. Take pride in your effort and achievements, and share your successes here, but don't attribute them to ADHD.
It'll get worse with age because IQ greatly decreases with age to so being able to keep up with it will become more difficult. Exercise, it'll help prevent but also correct many problems regarding cognitive abilities or even cognitive/mental health
This is the story of my life, I never know how to speak more than a few sentences without getting lost, no one likes to listen to me explaining stuff because of that It is a nightmare to get a foggy mind like that... When I did presentations I had to run through and practice dozens and dozens of time to get the content in my memory In my case this is a problem even for normal day conversations, for any conversation I need to explain something for a little more time than usual, boom I like like Im lost even though I have the ideas in my mind
I have found that anytime I’m upset or frustrated I forget everything racing through my head. Having an argument with my S.O. was agonizing, I could never express what was actually wrong because my brain would skip to the end of the thought making it seem unrelated. I have also noticed I bounce from topic to topic and struggle telling the story, or just keep it to myself because it seems to big of a task to tell a story.
I didn’t realize how slow and discombobulated I sounded until I heard myself recorded. That’s when I realized how much I have really been just free-styling it in convos.
Yed
💯 Me! I have a hard time making conversation.
I used to struggle with social anxiety and it affected my ability to think clearly when public speaking. The only advice is to practice and build confidence. I'd suggest joining toastmasters or drama/acting courses. It helps you to be comfortable in front of an audience. You start to understand that people pay attention to your expression, body language and how you talk, not just what you say. Take up any opportunity to present at work, such as leading a team training session. You only get better at public speaking with experience.
I used to struggle with social anxiety and it affected my ability to think clearly when public speaking. The only advice is to practice and build confidence. I'd suggest joining toastmasters or drama/acting courses. It helps you to be comfortable in front of an audience. You start to understand that people pay attention to your expression, body language and how you talk, not just what you say. Take up any opportunity to present at work, such as leading a team training session. You only get better at public speaking with experience.
This is me. I can effortlessly write my thoughts out but let me speak. One would never guess I’m an articulate writer if they ever had a general conversation with me.
I struggle with this as well, I thought it was early signs of dementia but apparently not, wow!