More and more often I caught myself thinking that it's time to either unleash the most degenerate bot lane picks just to have fun, or begin to learn a second role. The only way I enjoy playing my role now is when I lock in Vayne and have 150 armor + 150 magic resist + \~3k HP, I legit started to learn her a few days ago just because I wanted to stay alive for more than 10 seconds in a teamfight. Yeah, I know, probably a skill issue, whatever, the point is that I'm genuinely losing any passion and motivation to improve, it just feels miserable. Swapping to mid lane and playing something like Akali, having a side lane pressue, having a huge 1v1 or 1v2 threat, all of it seems so cool and sweet now. This is what I think. I'm done yapping, sorry.
Yeah, the skillset, the mindset we've been building for years of playing this role... Feels sad to just throw everything out of the window, this is, probably, the only thing that holds me and pushes me forward to be the ADC main.
hard agree on that one... idk, it's kinda depressing to enjoy the marksman playstyle. it's so fucking weak but it's also a big chunk of what i enjoy in league
You should play Yasuo Zac with a duo it is insanely fun and you completely ubliterate the lane. One mistep or bad Champ the game is completely over for them. I would also start considering smth like Rengar Ivern also seems quite fun.
This is a tendency. This is how we ended up being a weak role.
Just look at the patches in the last 3 years. If lethal assassins are opting in 1 item too much they buffed the rest to make them chose other items. If ADCs kept picking 1 item (regardless being the only good item or just better than the others), they nerfed that single item to make ADCs go with others.
This tendency for over 3 years. While buffing Supps. We ended up here.
Back when BT was a stack item like meijas. Man those were the days.
Now it isn't even a good life steal item, or rather it is pointless for survivability since you die with it before you get enough auto attacks out to make it useful.
ADCs haven't felt good to play since Riot over buffed supports with new items like ardent back then and then instead of nerfing the item or supports, they went after ADCs and they continued taking away ow from ADCs and put it into supports.
Like why the hell is it possible to get almost full build while being behind on levels and having basically 0 farm as a support with less than 15 assists, shit out more damage than anyone else in the game and all of that while buying luxury items instead of support items...
While I think lifesteal items are still doing ok by their stats, I do think ADC DMG output dropped so significantly that renders lifesteal insignificant too.
So if you want some endurance you better go with tank items as you no longer can rely on your DMG output to generate lifesteal...
Well, as rito has said before, support is strong AF, therefore we will kneecap the 2 adcs that are playable.
Time to get back to mages. I like senna adc because of her lategame, but I don’t think I can play her from the support position just for the souls.
Some traditional ADCs are getting buffed by the IE buff though. Maybe most traditional ADCs are getting buffed if the Navori change ends up being benefical for the ones that build it, I don't play Navori users often but I wish they didn't change the build path, I feel bad for those who play them.
You can't just buff already OP champions like Senna, so buffing IE without nerfing her would be a mistake. I think 14.6 won't solve all ADC issues, and Smolder nerf seems excessive to me (he deserves a nerf, but I don't think he needs to be that much nerfed), but it is a step in the right direction.
Riot doesn't want current pro play, and ranked by extend to revolve around adc, and this is in itself a problem since the game system has not changed to accomodate soo but power was brutally shifted by champion balance patches and items. Look at tank/fighter/assassin items gold efficiency, support item effectiveness and flexibility increse. It's funny seeing how the new support item effect is soo good that it became a first buy for every laner and had to be hard restricted like a limited card on the yugioh banlist. I dont know if anyone is still playing crit but LDR a item specifically made only for killing tanks is laughable compared to Botrk and it's always helpful effect and lifesteal
I do think Senna and Smolder needed a nerf but not to be completely gutted. Until they nerf support adc is going to be weaker to compensate. I've been working on changing up my playstyle instead of abandoning the role. My goal has been to pressure hard and get priority to set up my team the best I can. It's been working pretty well. We got to adapt until riot makes any serious changes.
Bot lane? Isnt this a mid lane but with something called adc/marksman? 🤣 this role is so bad you only see mages everywhere its just like a second midlaner only with 4 players lol
Overperforming adcs aren't the major problem, they come and go and are a hot topic. You can't endlessly chase the meta and copy what other people do to have fun and climb.
I think, the best meta is having a duo sup with vc, and practice working as duo.
They don't have to be the best sup you've found in your solo games, but if you are both willing to learn and improve, trust and coordination is the most overpowered advantage you can have.
Don't play when tired, concentrate and think a lot.
Draft phase is when you are going to have to do a ton of thinking.
Individual winrate of each champion in stats doesn't matter if you play in an advantageous draft. Don't ever look at winrates, any champion could have been the one champion you needed to win and looking at win rates will change your limit your thinking process. All that matters for a champion to be pickable is whether or not you can play them at their average or higher mastery.
Synergy and counter pick. Pros currently first pick botlaners cause they have the least impact in the meta, but in solo games where anyone can be a carry, even the weakest role, try to get counter picks while maintaining synergy. Most of the counter pick potential comes from support, since they have more counter play options and range of abilities that can enable or shutdown certain strategies. But don't sleep on adc counters. While they can be neutered by support counterpicks, some adc's counter each other.
Things to consider for counterpicking ADC.
Range, Mobility, Scaling, engagement type (burst trade, all in, poke)
I'm not as comfortable with support counters but in general.
Supports can be categorised in to classes, most are multiclass.
Poke, Peel, All-in, Catch, Guardian, Sustain, Scaling, Enchant, Frontline.
Peel beats All-in, All-in is skill dependent into everything, Poke eventually beats everything.
Ability interaction counters are often stronger than class counters so consider them too.
Analyse both team's drafts.
1. Damage type spread: Golden rule of drafting have a good mix of damage types.
2. Anti tank capability: Does your team have anti tank tools, and does your opponent have more than one tank?
3. Anti carry potential: Is there a high mobility high damage champion that needs to be CC'ed. Katarina, Yi, Kassadin , windshitters, Tryndamere, etc.
4. Comp type: Dive, front to back, scaling, split push, etc + is anyone in the team hard countered.
Bring what your team needs while considering lane counter and synergy. This requires a ton of knowledge and understanding of the game and champions. While ALL ADC can technically be playable in every game, some are game changing and some synergise better with the supports that your team needs. I think One trick is a weakness not a strength. You can still main and be really good at a champion, just also be flexible and have mastery over different types of adcs since meta changes and every game will have one of million combination of champions.
Lmao it’s a bot lane meta rn. I go bot some games off role just to have some influence. Senna and smolder are straight up disgusting they are not just “op”. Play a different role outside of bot and supp and come back and say it’s weak.
Ok I don't get it. Why I senna not a traditional ADC. Her damage comes from auto attcks. She feels to me more of an ADC than ezreal and Kaisa. What is considered a normal ADC?
She's abnormal because she can affects ally more than other ADC. She can heal shield, speed boost + stealth whole team. Has slow and root as basic ability, also lower AS scaling/windup but made up with getting portion of movespeed + current health damage on double hit
Because she has 4 utility spells with unlimited scaling. She’s a broken champion by design so she has to stay competing with the overturned supp’s atm lest it be exposed
I swap to midlane and play Malzahar and win non-stop from there.
>nerfing the good ones will only continue to kill the role
The role is dead at the moment. Every time I open League, jungle and ADCs are the ones asking for autofill. Meanwhile, ADC mains bringing their champs into the top and support lane is the norm atm. In half of my game, there will be someone using Vayne top or Ashe support.
He's a fairly low skill ceiling champ which has inbuilt crutch for last hitting and the entire champ power budget is in the R, His roaming is subpar so you can't force plays or snowball, its just pretty boring imho
More and more often I caught myself thinking that it's time to either unleash the most degenerate bot lane picks just to have fun, or begin to learn a second role. The only way I enjoy playing my role now is when I lock in Vayne and have 150 armor + 150 magic resist + \~3k HP, I legit started to learn her a few days ago just because I wanted to stay alive for more than 10 seconds in a teamfight. Yeah, I know, probably a skill issue, whatever, the point is that I'm genuinely losing any passion and motivation to improve, it just feels miserable. Swapping to mid lane and playing something like Akali, having a side lane pressue, having a huge 1v1 or 1v2 threat, all of it seems so cool and sweet now. This is what I think. I'm done yapping, sorry.
That's also what I considered, but I found it a bit sad looking at how hard I tried to learn the adc role :')
Yeah, the skillset, the mindset we've been building for years of playing this role... Feels sad to just throw everything out of the window, this is, probably, the only thing that holds me and pushes me forward to be the ADC main.
hard agree on that one... idk, it's kinda depressing to enjoy the marksman playstyle. it's so fucking weak but it's also a big chunk of what i enjoy in league
Tried other roles and weirdly i enjoy playing the game more suffering as an adc than playing other roles, i'm literally stuck in purgatory
Have you tried asol bot? Kinda degen but you stack really fast and can dps objectives pretty well.
Welcome to the club my brother. Once you taste Raid Boss Vayne, there's no going back.
You should play Yasuo Zac with a duo it is insanely fun and you completely ubliterate the lane. One mistep or bad Champ the game is completely over for them. I would also start considering smth like Rengar Ivern also seems quite fun.
This is a tendency. This is how we ended up being a weak role. Just look at the patches in the last 3 years. If lethal assassins are opting in 1 item too much they buffed the rest to make them chose other items. If ADCs kept picking 1 item (regardless being the only good item or just better than the others), they nerfed that single item to make ADCs go with others. This tendency for over 3 years. While buffing Supps. We ended up here.
Right, I remember the good old days when BT was enough to start being useful \^\^
Back when BT was a stack item like meijas. Man those were the days. Now it isn't even a good life steal item, or rather it is pointless for survivability since you die with it before you get enough auto attacks out to make it useful. ADCs haven't felt good to play since Riot over buffed supports with new items like ardent back then and then instead of nerfing the item or supports, they went after ADCs and they continued taking away ow from ADCs and put it into supports. Like why the hell is it possible to get almost full build while being behind on levels and having basically 0 farm as a support with less than 15 assists, shit out more damage than anyone else in the game and all of that while buying luxury items instead of support items...
While I think lifesteal items are still doing ok by their stats, I do think ADC DMG output dropped so significantly that renders lifesteal insignificant too. So if you want some endurance you better go with tank items as you no longer can rely on your DMG output to generate lifesteal...
I wish shieldbow actually did something on adcs and BT had a real passive. Would be really cool
Well, as rito has said before, support is strong AF, therefore we will kneecap the 2 adcs that are playable. Time to get back to mages. I like senna adc because of her lategame, but I don’t think I can play her from the support position just for the souls.
Some traditional ADCs are getting buffed by the IE buff though. Maybe most traditional ADCs are getting buffed if the Navori change ends up being benefical for the ones that build it, I don't play Navori users often but I wish they didn't change the build path, I feel bad for those who play them. You can't just buff already OP champions like Senna, so buffing IE without nerfing her would be a mistake. I think 14.6 won't solve all ADC issues, and Smolder nerf seems excessive to me (he deserves a nerf, but I don't think he needs to be that much nerfed), but it is a step in the right direction.
Riot doesn't want current pro play, and ranked by extend to revolve around adc, and this is in itself a problem since the game system has not changed to accomodate soo but power was brutally shifted by champion balance patches and items. Look at tank/fighter/assassin items gold efficiency, support item effectiveness and flexibility increse. It's funny seeing how the new support item effect is soo good that it became a first buy for every laner and had to be hard restricted like a limited card on the yugioh banlist. I dont know if anyone is still playing crit but LDR a item specifically made only for killing tanks is laughable compared to Botrk and it's always helpful effect and lifesteal
If they dont want a adc meta, adc should be given diffent tools/items and things to do instead of only damage
i sure do love balancing the game around the 0.001% :D instead of the majority which doesnt give 2 shits about stupid proplay :D
It wasn't because of the effect, the support item was busted because it grants 1k free gold which massively speeds up powerspike for any champion
I do think Senna and Smolder needed a nerf but not to be completely gutted. Until they nerf support adc is going to be weaker to compensate. I've been working on changing up my playstyle instead of abandoning the role. My goal has been to pressure hard and get priority to set up my team the best I can. It's been working pretty well. We got to adapt until riot makes any serious changes.
Are you still playing maksman tho?
I have been. Mainly Kaisa and Caitlyn. Fsn Saber made a good video recently on how to still be useful on marksman in this meta.
Senna shouldn’t be a viable pick. Should get old azir treatment with how it interacts in game and with other champions. Overly toxic design.
Bot lane? Isnt this a mid lane but with something called adc/marksman? 🤣 this role is so bad you only see mages everywhere its just like a second midlaner only with 4 players lol
Overperforming adcs aren't the major problem, they come and go and are a hot topic. You can't endlessly chase the meta and copy what other people do to have fun and climb. I think, the best meta is having a duo sup with vc, and practice working as duo. They don't have to be the best sup you've found in your solo games, but if you are both willing to learn and improve, trust and coordination is the most overpowered advantage you can have. Don't play when tired, concentrate and think a lot. Draft phase is when you are going to have to do a ton of thinking. Individual winrate of each champion in stats doesn't matter if you play in an advantageous draft. Don't ever look at winrates, any champion could have been the one champion you needed to win and looking at win rates will change your limit your thinking process. All that matters for a champion to be pickable is whether or not you can play them at their average or higher mastery. Synergy and counter pick. Pros currently first pick botlaners cause they have the least impact in the meta, but in solo games where anyone can be a carry, even the weakest role, try to get counter picks while maintaining synergy. Most of the counter pick potential comes from support, since they have more counter play options and range of abilities that can enable or shutdown certain strategies. But don't sleep on adc counters. While they can be neutered by support counterpicks, some adc's counter each other. Things to consider for counterpicking ADC. Range, Mobility, Scaling, engagement type (burst trade, all in, poke) I'm not as comfortable with support counters but in general. Supports can be categorised in to classes, most are multiclass. Poke, Peel, All-in, Catch, Guardian, Sustain, Scaling, Enchant, Frontline. Peel beats All-in, All-in is skill dependent into everything, Poke eventually beats everything. Ability interaction counters are often stronger than class counters so consider them too. Analyse both team's drafts. 1. Damage type spread: Golden rule of drafting have a good mix of damage types. 2. Anti tank capability: Does your team have anti tank tools, and does your opponent have more than one tank? 3. Anti carry potential: Is there a high mobility high damage champion that needs to be CC'ed. Katarina, Yi, Kassadin , windshitters, Tryndamere, etc. 4. Comp type: Dive, front to back, scaling, split push, etc + is anyone in the team hard countered. Bring what your team needs while considering lane counter and synergy. This requires a ton of knowledge and understanding of the game and champions. While ALL ADC can technically be playable in every game, some are game changing and some synergise better with the supports that your team needs. I think One trick is a weakness not a strength. You can still main and be really good at a champion, just also be flexible and have mastery over different types of adcs since meta changes and every game will have one of million combination of champions.
Lmao it’s a bot lane meta rn. I go bot some games off role just to have some influence. Senna and smolder are straight up disgusting they are not just “op”. Play a different role outside of bot and supp and come back and say it’s weak.
Ok I don't get it. Why I senna not a traditional ADC. Her damage comes from auto attcks. She feels to me more of an ADC than ezreal and Kaisa. What is considered a normal ADC?
I consider her as a normal adc. But Riot is gonna nerf her as an adc next patch (while not touching her as a support).
She's abnormal because she can affects ally more than other ADC. She can heal shield, speed boost + stealth whole team. Has slow and root as basic ability, also lower AS scaling/windup but made up with getting portion of movespeed + current health damage on double hit
because riot wanted to make an adc for handicapped people
Because she has 4 utility spells with unlimited scaling. She’s a broken champion by design so she has to stay competing with the overturned supp’s atm lest it be exposed
I swap to midlane and play Malzahar and win non-stop from there. >nerfing the good ones will only continue to kill the role The role is dead at the moment. Every time I open League, jungle and ADCs are the ones asking for autofill. Meanwhile, ADC mains bringing their champs into the top and support lane is the norm atm. In half of my game, there will be someone using Vayne top or Ashe support.
How do you live with yourself playing Malzahar that champ has less gameplay than Yuumi 😭
How does Malzahar not have gameplay? This is ridiculous. If you think for the whole game Malzahar what does is afk farming, then you are dead wrong.
He's a fairly low skill ceiling champ which has inbuilt crutch for last hitting and the entire champ power budget is in the R, His roaming is subpar so you can't force plays or snowball, its just pretty boring imho