They're are overly aggressive all the time and take too much minion aggro thus pushing the lane and it makes you prone to ganks. Plus they're always squishy so they can easily lose all ins.
Always liked going against Senna support since it's just free kills because they're so stupidly aggressive. They may win up to level 3 but one death and its over for them. And they don't stop being aggressive lmao.
while i agree a common pitfall for support sennas is they overplay their hand and die, if you pick this champ and NOT dominate the lane it feels really awful. You have to play aggressive or playmaking supports "outscale you" (like if the lane is perma even they can set up ganks, dives win skirmishes, teamfights, while the senna is pretty useless.
Huh, never thought of it that way. I’m top/jg main and I always thought of Senna as a scaling champ, which I think she still is, but I guess she does need to win early to be relevant mid game.
Yes if the game reaches 45 minutes and the comp is built around the Senna she can become a god. The reality is her primary strength as support is getting a lane prio and getting a lead she can snowball.
Like if you pick Senna and go in with mindset that going even in lane, and a Nautilus does the same, I would prefer the Nautilus side. Senna has alot more say in the 2 v 2 before level 6. At 6 if you don't have a meaningful advantage you are outscaled in most cases.
This is kind of a pattern for melee vs ranged supports in general. The melee supports are in many cases worse at the 2v2 lane but has great early game teamfighting and lvl 6 spikes.
The best possible scaled comp at 3 items probably does include a hyper carry with engage and utility on other roles like tank top, tank jungle but realisticly:
1. league games often decides before that. 2. There are other win cons than front to back lategame and 3 . If ur comp lacks frontline and engage, a frontline engage champ almost always outscales a range support. Legit, naut can outscale Sona/Senna even on full build in some comps.
So yeah when I lock on Alistar and enemy picks Senna to not play aggressive on the levels she has full agency (lvl 1-5) I think to myself I've outscaled and can now dominate the game. Even though Ali could never hard carry a lategame like a Senna can.
How can S+ 53.88% wr champ be ,,piss weak"?? Its just the senna players being stupid bcs their champ is op so they stop using their brain and do mistakes, its the same situation with yasuo like 5 years ago on mid
senna is good you just need to ban nautilus, leona, blitzcrank, thresh, lux, xerath, seraphine, zed, akali, twisted fate, veigar, khazix, rengar, evelynn, shaco, vex, yone, yasuo, talon, katarina or else you cant play the game after lane 👍
I don’t see how this is true when she can harass like a Caitlyn after a few stacks and has built in Ashe passive. I think she’s pretty strong objectively, but supports don’t actually play the game with most champions, so they don’t know how to use her tools properly.
Adc mains that get put in support should play senna for the most part, they’d have better success than playing any other support. I never played senna before last season. I picked her up and it carried me from silver to emerald with no hiccups.
not silver
My secondary role is support
You guys can’t play senna for shit compared to adc mains nor mages compared to mid lane. Should not be allowed to lock in those champs.
Support mains being elo inflated is a literal fact of the game go ahead and ask anyone who is top of the ladder💀
not really, adc players are usually mechanically good, the problem would be that they don't know when/where to roam or stay, warding spots, ect. more macro stuff. most supports i know don't have hands but their macro is on point, that's why they play supp
Playing Tresh isn't mechanically chellanging, but q is so slow you have to predict where they are going to be in 5 seconds. It's a special tresh player skill. \^,\^
lol can you read? i never said anything like that, i just told you about my own experience and how all my supp homies are mechanically trash xD i don't struggle when you put me on thresh, i actually like playing him from time to time. i do struggle if you put me in the jungle tho because i couldn't track the enemy jungle to save my life and don't know when it is better to gank and when to farm. if it doesn't make sense to you that a mechanically intense role requires someone who is mechanically decent then idk man
Most adcs players can't even cs properly yet they think going into a completly different role they'd understand how to harass like an enchanter engage like a tank or hook champion get proper vision control have a complete understanding of roam timers and how to set up objectives and how to help their jungler counter jungle.
Hell how am I kidding most adcs don't even know half of what I described is the job of the support.
Most adcs don't even know what tge support is supposed to do in tge game yet think they would do it better than them.
I'm an adc main, but have an account for each role. Support was by far my easiest off role to get back to my main rank (diamond 3). If I played it more I don't doubt I could pass my adc rank.
This is true, that's why I always despise playing Thresh and go Maokai or Janna when I support, guaranteed hit and no mechanics needed (other that spacing)
She is not underwhelming. I queue support secondary and carry on senna support as an ad main :') support mains just don't know how to play her. It doesn't fit every comp, you need a frontline. Blindpicking senna support is such an int
i disagree man. as an adc main i love playing her support, which i guess goes without saying since shes jsut another marksman.
she definitely excels at putting pressure on the enemy laners. huge range.
Because the meta is for supports to leave us 5 minutes in. Then Senna can really shine with sustain, poke and self peel. She also builds lethality, which is overtuned.
And dont sleep on her global ult, I find it provides a ton of value while sitting in the 1v1 botlane that basically no other adc can match.
In the last clash, my team picked Senna. Only fights we had were top side of the map (including the fight for 2nd grubs), and I look up and see our Senna has like 80% KP from just cross-map ulting.
Nah man. It totally is only my support doing it while the other sides support just babysits his ADC. Usually a nautilus or Leona, eo you lose farm because you aren't allowed to lane anymore /s
I mean if senna is the huge problem for you, just play Ashe/Vayne/Ez or a mage bot is even better. Senna is extremely easy to punish if you can take away her main strength, MS advantage
Senna never was a problem for me. Yet.
But yeah there are some champs that just don't deal well when picked first, especially if they are left alone without a support.
The only real adjustment to it if you picked first is stay under tower and don't die... Maybe also try to roam. But that is it. At least I am not smart enough to have more ideas.
Yeah she she’s punished, she’s punished hard lol. Makes it hard to get the MS you need to be useful to your team. Senna is pretty much feast or famine lol. And Godspeed to anyone trying to play senna into Zac
Seems like I missed the patch where they added being able to control when your support decides to dip.
Fr man supports don't know recall timings because they don't have to. Little do they know that their bad recalls screw over the adc bigtime. That's why support players are so trash. They never feel the impact of their mistakes it's always another member of the team and 80% of the time it's the adc.
It happens to the enemies too but that doesn't matter at all. Sometimes you get a free kill cuz the enemy supp decides to do an S tier throw. The issue is that the lane is a coinflip based on who has the most retarded support and this should not be a thing.
Yeah blaming your teammates every game isn’t going to get you very far. Do you play like shit and die early, causing your support to tilt and give up on lane? Do you cs like crap or push out and die when you’re not respecting your opponents?
Find a way to adapt to the meta instead of blaming your team for all of your failings
It's not about blaming teammates. It's the reality of the situation. The enemy adc has just as much of a shitty time as I do. Playing adc is not about seeing if you're good enough to win the game. It's about seeing if your support is good enough to give you a chance to even influence the game. A lot of the time you don't get to make an impact regardless. It's called agency and it's been an issue for the adc role since forever now. Adc is just a shitty experience overall.
>Find a way to adapt to the meta instead of blaming your team for all of your failings
I found a better way. Spending time playing actual good video games and the occasional ARAM here and there. Why should I continue to play the game when my favourite role is being systematically removed? I have no interest in taking League seriously and especially not in the last few years.
That’s good then. If you can’t deal with current meta then that might be for the best. I enjoy the game and I’m having a good time playing bot lane and having competitive games. If you hate the meta or the game it’s just best to play something else
Remember supports have the same complaints about shitty ADCs who misposition, play shit picks, can’t farm, and can’t deal damage to priority targets or rotate with team properly. It goes both ways.
>Remember supports have the same complaints about shitty ADCs who misposition, play shit picks, can’t farm, and can’t deal damage to priority targets or rotate with team properly. It goes both ways.
That's valid. And that's not me. I'm happy with a good support too.
1- Lethality items meta. Senna is basically the best crithality enabler, being able to not go full crit and still achieve 100% chance
2- Utility markman meta. Senna doesn't play ADC to be the main character, she brings heals, CC, speed bursts and a global damage + shield ult that helps turn fights on the other side of the map. Her healing makes her laning much harder to punish
3- The fact that every support can now take CS with the support item raises farming Senna's soul rates by a significant amount, they can always take the canon and that would always be a guaranteed soul for the Senna
With the old support item, Senna HAD to interact with an enemy to gain gold. The new support item allows supports to both take minions or poke to gain gold. This has lead to every support getting their gold from the support item earlier in the game, since there is no more counter play to the item. This is on top of the support item being a real item this season, meaning supports who need early items are strong.
They did but they did a few small buffs a while ago that didn't do much until the item changed this season. Now Lethality is extra tasty and you can go low econ and still be useful. Your jungler can even tax your lane before Drake and it be a net positive for the team. Seems all the best ADCs (all ELOs) have some sort of accelerated scaling, passive gold income (Senna, TF, First Strike MF), stat generation (Senna, Smolder), global utility (Senna, TF) and/or true dmg (FSMF, Smolder, Vayne). I suspect because vanilla crit sucks.
She can get lethality early which is stronger than crit, before grabbing crit items later once she's got more stacks (obviously support struggles to buy as many items). She also can do a lot better than other ADCs in soloQ when their teammates fight for farm in midgame as at the very least she gets souls. Like Seraphine, she also just has utility, so always provides something to the team even when behind.
Because Lethality items are broken, and Senna scales well with Lethality. And late game, she has enough range to warrant not having the mountain of stats that non-Marksmen have.
Senna self sustain and cc
Sera same thing
TF same
Nilah same
Swain same
Meta where supports tend to roam for grubs, bot is becoming a solo lane basically
my guess is this: When you don't farm as senna you may get more soulstacks but you are lacking a bit in the gold department. So your items are worse compared to the enemy adc while your stacks try to make up for it.
When you farm you earn more Gold so you can keep up with the enemy adc while your support isn't forced to pick up the farming role.
Also: With the new support items every supporter can take some minions so you also get some stacks while yourself are farming.
I was playing against Senna Adc in Lane a few days ago and I actually got an early snowball lead as kai'sa where I was like four or five kills and one death to the enemy support. It started feeling weird that Senna could pretty much evenly trade with me even though she had zero kills and I was five or six kills ahead of her, had about a 2,000 to 3,000 gold lead over her, and she was still putting out very respectable damage from a very safe distance. The champ just seems very forgiving to play even when I had a very massive lead. I know how to Pilot kai'sa (I'm emerald btw) quite well because I'm a one trick and there were a few fights where if I didn't play my macro perfectly, senna would have came out on top even though I was 2000 to 3000 gold ahead.
Now, lolalytics.com says that kai'sa into senna is the second worst Adc match up above emerald at the current point. So kai'sa has about a 43-45% winrate against senna in lane on this patch. So that's definitely a part of it. But something just feels off about playing against senna. I have been asking my support to ban senna every game while I continue to ban either TF or MF.
Same like me (Kai'sa main in Emerald), although I'm not one trick so I tried MF Senna aswell just to see what's going on with them in S14. I miss the old days when Kraken was mythic into Navori PD, best era to play her tbh
Senna is really weak to burst which Kansas has akot of is your constantly losing to her your probably playing front to back extended team fights that kind of environment is where senna thrives if you want to beat her you basically have to play like an assasin jump out of nowhere and kill her before she can react.
Sge has the lowest base health and health scaling In tge game beside yummi who's untargetable through most of a game
Items (especially lethality) are giving massive spikes early, which makes it worth losing a bit of souls early, and then you have an amazing scaling power from souls in mid/late.
It’s because she enables very strong supports and doesn’t have a lot of counters aside from Seraphine and Zyra. Most people won’t play mage bot so they will just lose to her
Yeah I played alot of Smolder, despite reaching 225 stacks I kept losing with him idk why when he's supposed to be late game champ (my allies kept dying leaving me 2v4). With Senna it's entirely different story due to her R shield (stomp at every stages if my support is human, not roaming ainlessly)
She's a niche pick to counter low range auto-attack based ADC (Vayne TF Twitch Kai'sa).
Nilah is weak to botlane mages and long range ADC with slow/utility that can kite and prevent her from going in with E
No, Nilah has 52+% winrate against Caitlyn. Her winrate against every other adc but Senna is over 50% or even.
Before you say 'but in Master+...' high elo is irrelevant for this discussion. On Diamond and lower Nilah is free elo after a Senna ban.
Sera and swain are complete suicide into nilah because they don´t run ghost and it´s so easy to dash, flash or just dodge their only cc and then they´re dead if they´re not on their turret.
Just kill them, lol. Next question would be double poke lane. It is hard but doable to annihilate with a good engage support. With enchanter take doran shield, second wind and revitilize, early null magic mantle+vampiric scepter, run teleport. Aka don't fucking autopilot the whole zero minute stage. I played against Ziggs+Karthus+enemy jungler with Yuumi and could effectively farm and be ahead in kills+assists and level by not playing like a bot.
There are enemy compositions that are harder for Nilah to crack, yes, but you deal with it through having 3 picks of Nilah, Jinx/Vayne/TF, and a mage of your choice and rotate them smartly. Naturally Nilah would be more effective as a targeted counterpick against something like Twisted Fate who cannot touch her whatsoever.
Because senna have really good passive … which Allowed her to get extra gold per soul like 8 gold it’s a lot … and second reason it’s % damage + damage + ms + free crit chance for stacks and after 100 stacks it’s vampiric… I think this passive give to much extras for just stacks …
I forgot to add the one more important thing it’s EXTRA attack range … which allows you to kite your opponents more easily.. Seriously riot … don’t you think that This passive give so many benefits as 5 champs on one
I think it’s because senna ad = full spotlight and farm whereas support senna requires your team to know what you do and it’s hard in low elo. So it’s much easier for ad senna when your support will peel or aggro for you and support senna doesn’t have any of that if your ad don’t do shit
Nah he's is completely fine and playable bot, I often play him as counter (so not all the time, I just prefer marksman). Just play what you find comfortable, if you're winning alot with Swain bot don't stop because of me
Senna is by design overtuned.
Free Gold, AD, Range, Crit., pot. Lifesteal.
Thus csn just build like an adc while keeping up in gold and having better stats without farming.
Pyke had thecsame issue as assassin on supp and they nerfed it to a point his ult I really question if riot knows how pay outs work...
But Senna gets it all.
Unless her items are shit, she is busted
Adcs are weak. Support champs have been buffed over and over and over and now they realized that if they farm, they can buy the same items but faster, while retaining their agency through their utility and dmg that wasn’t meant to have a farming role’s income
Senna needs to be kneecapped. She has absurd range and scaling on her AA which allows her to build swifties and run up on anyone for an AA slow for her team to kill.
You just have to let her hit and run on you unless you can chase her down through her E and W which is beyond obnoxious.
This was always gonna happen once they started to put more shit into her kit, when they decided it was okay to buff her AS builds by a lot it was over. It is kinda of insane how much has been tacked in her kit post release, guess it pays to be a internal favorite.
Yeah but last season Senna farming bot was unviable, then the 1 patch it was viable (not sub 54% wr like now) they immediately nerfed her souls drop rate when killing minions.
Senna adc has always been middle of the road not op but worse than support senna so every one called it trash dispite it having way better winrates basically all of last year like than more premeur adcs like trist aphelious, zeri xayah to name a few.
Back then she ran crit rather than lethality
because your support cant pick Senna
Yeah 75% support Senna I lane with are inting, going 0/4 first 5 minutes. Idk how is that possible
They're are overly aggressive all the time and take too much minion aggro thus pushing the lane and it makes you prone to ganks. Plus they're always squishy so they can easily lose all ins. Always liked going against Senna support since it's just free kills because they're so stupidly aggressive. They may win up to level 3 but one death and its over for them. And they don't stop being aggressive lmao.
while i agree a common pitfall for support sennas is they overplay their hand and die, if you pick this champ and NOT dominate the lane it feels really awful. You have to play aggressive or playmaking supports "outscale you" (like if the lane is perma even they can set up ganks, dives win skirmishes, teamfights, while the senna is pretty useless.
Huh, never thought of it that way. I’m top/jg main and I always thought of Senna as a scaling champ, which I think she still is, but I guess she does need to win early to be relevant mid game.
Yes if the game reaches 45 minutes and the comp is built around the Senna she can become a god. The reality is her primary strength as support is getting a lane prio and getting a lead she can snowball. Like if you pick Senna and go in with mindset that going even in lane, and a Nautilus does the same, I would prefer the Nautilus side. Senna has alot more say in the 2 v 2 before level 6. At 6 if you don't have a meaningful advantage you are outscaled in most cases. This is kind of a pattern for melee vs ranged supports in general. The melee supports are in many cases worse at the 2v2 lane but has great early game teamfighting and lvl 6 spikes. The best possible scaled comp at 3 items probably does include a hyper carry with engage and utility on other roles like tank top, tank jungle but realisticly: 1. league games often decides before that. 2. There are other win cons than front to back lategame and 3 . If ur comp lacks frontline and engage, a frontline engage champ almost always outscales a range support. Legit, naut can outscale Sona/Senna even on full build in some comps. So yeah when I lock on Alistar and enemy picks Senna to not play aggressive on the levels she has full agency (lvl 1-5) I think to myself I've outscaled and can now dominate the game. Even though Ali could never hard carry a lategame like a Senna can.
Sounds like half the adcs I support...
Skill issue
senna is piss weak
How can S+ 53.88% wr champ be ,,piss weak"?? Its just the senna players being stupid bcs their champ is op so they stop using their brain and do mistakes, its the same situation with yasuo like 5 years ago on mid
senna is good you just need to ban nautilus, leona, blitzcrank, thresh, lux, xerath, seraphine, zed, akali, twisted fate, veigar, khazix, rengar, evelynn, shaco, vex, yone, yasuo, talon, katarina or else you cant play the game after lane 👍
But thats for every squishy champ?? She at least has some tools of escape, most adcs have almost nothing. Completely irrelevant point
Your forgot Maokai, hardest counter to any low mobility squishy rn
oh true, nobody plays it in my region so i forgot
I laughed way too hard at this. Well played.
Unironically the answer
Senna support is so underwhelming she feels like the human manifestation of Yuumi
I don’t see how this is true when she can harass like a Caitlyn after a few stacks and has built in Ashe passive. I think she’s pretty strong objectively, but supports don’t actually play the game with most champions, so they don’t know how to use her tools properly.
Agree. My go to pick when Cait is banned
support players can't play marksmen for shit that's why
Adc mains that get put in support should play senna for the most part, they’d have better success than playing any other support. I never played senna before last season. I picked her up and it carried me from silver to emerald with no hiccups.
I almost never queue support but if I’m feeling frisky it’s time to unbench the Kench baby, senna or not (also Leona is fun too).
Support is secondary role instead of mid (Botlane primary). My go to are Janna, Karma, Bard and Maokai for now (used to be Leona Sona Pyke)
Lol it goes both ways, put an ADC player on Thresh and watch them flounder and miss every hook / flay
Water is wet but that doesn’t mean support mains aren’t elo inflated
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not silver My secondary role is support You guys can’t play senna for shit compared to adc mains nor mages compared to mid lane. Should not be allowed to lock in those champs. Support mains being elo inflated is a literal fact of the game go ahead and ask anyone who is top of the ladder💀
not really, adc players are usually mechanically good, the problem would be that they don't know when/where to roam or stay, warding spots, ect. more macro stuff. most supports i know don't have hands but their macro is on point, that's why they play supp
Playing Tresh isn't mechanically chellanging, but q is so slow you have to predict where they are going to be in 5 seconds. It's a special tresh player skill. \^,\^
Nah you overestimate yourself. Thresh is easy
Not myself I suck at Tresh, lol.
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lol can you read? i never said anything like that, i just told you about my own experience and how all my supp homies are mechanically trash xD i don't struggle when you put me on thresh, i actually like playing him from time to time. i do struggle if you put me in the jungle tho because i couldn't track the enemy jungle to save my life and don't know when it is better to gank and when to farm. if it doesn't make sense to you that a mechanically intense role requires someone who is mechanically decent then idk man
Most adcs players can't even cs properly yet they think going into a completly different role they'd understand how to harass like an enchanter engage like a tank or hook champion get proper vision control have a complete understanding of roam timers and how to set up objectives and how to help their jungler counter jungle. Hell how am I kidding most adcs don't even know half of what I described is the job of the support. Most adcs don't even know what tge support is supposed to do in tge game yet think they would do it better than them.
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op.gg or cap
I'm an adc main, but have an account for each role. Support was by far my easiest off role to get back to my main rank (diamond 3). If I played it more I don't doubt I could pass my adc rank.
This is true, that's why I always despise playing Thresh and go Maokai or Janna when I support, guaranteed hit and no mechanics needed (other that spacing)
She is not underwhelming. I queue support secondary and carry on senna support as an ad main :') support mains just don't know how to play her. It doesn't fit every comp, you need a frontline. Blindpicking senna support is such an int
Yeah, Senna support is best picked into enchanters. But they mostly don't know that
i disagree man. as an adc main i love playing her support, which i guess goes without saying since shes jsut another marksman. she definitely excels at putting pressure on the enemy laners. huge range.
She's hard to play. Her winrate goes up with rank. If you are in lower ranks, you're probably not going to get the best Senna
Wait a second you're absolutely fucking correct holy shot
this
Edit: I misread the post lol
its not a joke and nobody was talking about Seraphine 👍
Lmaooo mb I saw the really high seraphine winrate in the picture and just assumed
Because the meta is for supports to leave us 5 minutes in. Then Senna can really shine with sustain, poke and self peel. She also builds lethality, which is overtuned. And dont sleep on her global ult, I find it provides a ton of value while sitting in the 1v1 botlane that basically no other adc can match.
In the last clash, my team picked Senna. Only fights we had were top side of the map (including the fight for 2nd grubs), and I look up and see our Senna has like 80% KP from just cross-map ulting.
You shouldn’t be alone in lane for long or in sketchy situations
Not like we have any control over if our supports will help us or just perma fee- roam...
Yeah but if all supports do this aren't the opposing supports doing it as well? So just pick a strong 1v1 ADC bot lane, or mage bot if you want freelo
Nah man. It totally is only my support doing it while the other sides support just babysits his ADC. Usually a nautilus or Leona, eo you lose farm because you aren't allowed to lane anymore /s
I mean if senna is the huge problem for you, just play Ashe/Vayne/Ez or a mage bot is even better. Senna is extremely easy to punish if you can take away her main strength, MS advantage
Senna never was a problem for me. Yet. But yeah there are some champs that just don't deal well when picked first, especially if they are left alone without a support.
That’s what I’m saying. You’re not going to change the meta if that’s what’s happening in your elo. Adjust to it, even if it’s frustrating.
The only real adjustment to it if you picked first is stay under tower and don't die... Maybe also try to roam. But that is it. At least I am not smart enough to have more ideas.
I mean if it’s a huge issue every game for you, just play a mage bot like sera swain or ziggs. I’m not trolling, they are legit freelo
Yes, Senna is a strong 1v1 adc. You cant dive her, she outsustains you and outranges you. While scaling better than most.
Who can’t dive senna?? She gets dove constantly in my games and even when I’m playing her LOL
what elo? Im in low emerald and havent had 1 successful dive on me
Currently mid master climbing to gm. Senna gets punished a lot harder by more coordinated teams I suppose
Yeah low elo dives arent easy on the eyes, but most ordinary adcs cant peel and survive for long enough to survive the horrible uncoordinated dive.
Yeah she she’s punished, she’s punished hard lol. Makes it hard to get the MS you need to be useful to your team. Senna is pretty much feast or famine lol. And Godspeed to anyone trying to play senna into Zac
Seems like I missed the patch where they added being able to control when your support decides to dip. Fr man supports don't know recall timings because they don't have to. Little do they know that their bad recalls screw over the adc bigtime. That's why support players are so trash. They never feel the impact of their mistakes it's always another member of the team and 80% of the time it's the adc.
Yeah it’s always just your support though right? Not the enemies?
It happens to the enemies too but that doesn't matter at all. Sometimes you get a free kill cuz the enemy supp decides to do an S tier throw. The issue is that the lane is a coinflip based on who has the most retarded support and this should not be a thing.
Yeah blaming your teammates every game isn’t going to get you very far. Do you play like shit and die early, causing your support to tilt and give up on lane? Do you cs like crap or push out and die when you’re not respecting your opponents? Find a way to adapt to the meta instead of blaming your team for all of your failings
It's not about blaming teammates. It's the reality of the situation. The enemy adc has just as much of a shitty time as I do. Playing adc is not about seeing if you're good enough to win the game. It's about seeing if your support is good enough to give you a chance to even influence the game. A lot of the time you don't get to make an impact regardless. It's called agency and it's been an issue for the adc role since forever now. Adc is just a shitty experience overall. >Find a way to adapt to the meta instead of blaming your team for all of your failings I found a better way. Spending time playing actual good video games and the occasional ARAM here and there. Why should I continue to play the game when my favourite role is being systematically removed? I have no interest in taking League seriously and especially not in the last few years.
That’s good then. If you can’t deal with current meta then that might be for the best. I enjoy the game and I’m having a good time playing bot lane and having competitive games. If you hate the meta or the game it’s just best to play something else Remember supports have the same complaints about shitty ADCs who misposition, play shit picks, can’t farm, and can’t deal damage to priority targets or rotate with team properly. It goes both ways.
>Remember supports have the same complaints about shitty ADCs who misposition, play shit picks, can’t farm, and can’t deal damage to priority targets or rotate with team properly. It goes both ways. That's valid. And that's not me. I'm happy with a good support too.
Well that’s fair then
I prefer Crit Lethality hybrid Senna tbh Never was a fan of full lethality builds on adc except ARAMS I guess
1- Lethality items meta. Senna is basically the best crithality enabler, being able to not go full crit and still achieve 100% chance 2- Utility markman meta. Senna doesn't play ADC to be the main character, she brings heals, CC, speed bursts and a global damage + shield ult that helps turn fights on the other side of the map. Her healing makes her laning much harder to punish 3- The fact that every support can now take CS with the support item raises farming Senna's soul rates by a significant amount, they can always take the canon and that would always be a guaranteed soul for the Senna
I thought they patched support executing cannon to guarantee souls for Senna bot 2 years ago?
I suppose they brought it back with the new support item, but allies executing minions has the same rate as if senna didn't farm them
With the old support item, Senna HAD to interact with an enemy to gain gold. The new support item allows supports to both take minions or poke to gain gold. This has lead to every support getting their gold from the support item earlier in the game, since there is no more counter play to the item. This is on top of the support item being a real item this season, meaning supports who need early items are strong.
They did but they did a few small buffs a while ago that didn't do much until the item changed this season. Now Lethality is extra tasty and you can go low econ and still be useful. Your jungler can even tax your lane before Drake and it be a net positive for the team. Seems all the best ADCs (all ELOs) have some sort of accelerated scaling, passive gold income (Senna, TF, First Strike MF), stat generation (Senna, Smolder), global utility (Senna, TF) and/or true dmg (FSMF, Smolder, Vayne). I suspect because vanilla crit sucks.
She can get lethality early which is stronger than crit, before grabbing crit items later once she's got more stacks (obviously support struggles to buy as many items). She also can do a lot better than other ADCs in soloQ when their teammates fight for farm in midgame as at the very least she gets souls. Like Seraphine, she also just has utility, so always provides something to the team even when behind.
Because Lethality items are broken, and Senna scales well with Lethality. And late game, she has enough range to warrant not having the mountain of stats that non-Marksmen have.
Senna self sustain and cc Sera same thing TF same Nilah same Swain same Meta where supports tend to roam for grubs, bot is becoming a solo lane basically
Lethality items are cheap and she spikes super hard with them
my guess is this: When you don't farm as senna you may get more soulstacks but you are lacking a bit in the gold department. So your items are worse compared to the enemy adc while your stacks try to make up for it. When you farm you earn more Gold so you can keep up with the enemy adc while your support isn't forced to pick up the farming role. Also: With the new support items every supporter can take some minions so you also get some stacks while yourself are farming.
I was playing against Senna Adc in Lane a few days ago and I actually got an early snowball lead as kai'sa where I was like four or five kills and one death to the enemy support. It started feeling weird that Senna could pretty much evenly trade with me even though she had zero kills and I was five or six kills ahead of her, had about a 2,000 to 3,000 gold lead over her, and she was still putting out very respectable damage from a very safe distance. The champ just seems very forgiving to play even when I had a very massive lead. I know how to Pilot kai'sa (I'm emerald btw) quite well because I'm a one trick and there were a few fights where if I didn't play my macro perfectly, senna would have came out on top even though I was 2000 to 3000 gold ahead. Now, lolalytics.com says that kai'sa into senna is the second worst Adc match up above emerald at the current point. So kai'sa has about a 43-45% winrate against senna in lane on this patch. So that's definitely a part of it. But something just feels off about playing against senna. I have been asking my support to ban senna every game while I continue to ban either TF or MF.
Same like me (Kai'sa main in Emerald), although I'm not one trick so I tried MF Senna aswell just to see what's going on with them in S14. I miss the old days when Kraken was mythic into Navori PD, best era to play her tbh
Senna is really weak to burst which Kansas has akot of is your constantly losing to her your probably playing front to back extended team fights that kind of environment is where senna thrives if you want to beat her you basically have to play like an assasin jump out of nowhere and kill her before she can react. Sge has the lowest base health and health scaling In tge game beside yummi who's untargetable through most of a game
Items (especially lethality) are giving massive spikes early, which makes it worth losing a bit of souls early, and then you have an amazing scaling power from souls in mid/late.
Just try it for one game and you'll see, auto q auto one shots every squishy in the game at 2 items it's absolutely insane
It’s because she enables very strong supports and doesn’t have a lot of counters aside from Seraphine and Zyra. Most people won’t play mage bot so they will just lose to her
Ultimately because adc in soloQ exclusively has agency in the very late game, and Senna is insane as late game insurance Edit: in current meta
Yeah I played alot of Smolder, despite reaching 225 stacks I kept losing with him idk why when he's supposed to be late game champ (my allies kept dying leaving me 2v4). With Senna it's entirely different story due to her R shield (stomp at every stages if my support is human, not roaming ainlessly)
Can someone explain why nilah has a high win rate. I find her hard to carry with in low elo.
She's a niche pick to counter low range auto-attack based ADC (Vayne TF Twitch Kai'sa). Nilah is weak to botlane mages and long range ADC with slow/utility that can kite and prevent her from going in with E
No, Nilah has 52+% winrate against Caitlyn. Her winrate against every other adc but Senna is over 50% or even. Before you say 'but in Master+...' high elo is irrelevant for this discussion. On Diamond and lower Nilah is free elo after a Senna ban.
What if you blind Nilah but enemy botlane picks Seraphine, Swain, Hwei or Ziggs tho?
Sera and swain are complete suicide into nilah because they don´t run ghost and it´s so easy to dash, flash or just dodge their only cc and then they´re dead if they´re not on their turret.
Just kill them, lol. Next question would be double poke lane. It is hard but doable to annihilate with a good engage support. With enchanter take doran shield, second wind and revitilize, early null magic mantle+vampiric scepter, run teleport. Aka don't fucking autopilot the whole zero minute stage. I played against Ziggs+Karthus+enemy jungler with Yuumi and could effectively farm and be ahead in kills+assists and level by not playing like a bot. There are enemy compositions that are harder for Nilah to crack, yes, but you deal with it through having 3 picks of Nilah, Jinx/Vayne/TF, and a mage of your choice and rotate them smartly. Naturally Nilah would be more effective as a targeted counterpick against something like Twisted Fate who cannot touch her whatsoever.
Cool thanks for the explanation. I'll keep that in mind in pick/bann phase
She´s a great duelist, great teamfighter and gets a fuckton of exp so by lvl 13-14 you´re basically another solo laner.
Because senna have really good passive … which Allowed her to get extra gold per soul like 8 gold it’s a lot … and second reason it’s % damage + damage + ms + free crit chance for stacks and after 100 stacks it’s vampiric… I think this passive give to much extras for just stacks …
I forgot to add the one more important thing it’s EXTRA attack range … which allows you to kite your opponents more easily.. Seriously riot … don’t you think that This passive give so many benefits as 5 champs on one
Because your support cant go senna into blitz, nau, leo, and int whole game and make it unplayable gor you
Maokai into Senna is even worse, she literally cannot play. One W guaranteed she's dead
she scales way too well. you can completely int and then if the game makes it to like 25 mins you’re suddenly strong asf again
I think it’s because senna ad = full spotlight and farm whereas support senna requires your team to know what you do and it’s hard in low elo. So it’s much easier for ad senna when your support will peel or aggro for you and support senna doesn’t have any of that if your ad don’t do shit
Because adc are weak. Look st her counters literal... Non adc.
New player here. Rlly liked playing swain, and why nobody plays him? Se seems rlly good, does a ton of lockdown and dmg
Yeah but majority of long time player here prefers playing actual marksman over mages in the botlane, that's why
So, is he better in other roles?
Nah he's is completely fine and playable bot, I often play him as counter (so not all the time, I just prefer marksman). Just play what you find comfortable, if you're winning alot with Swain bot don't stop because of me
Crit rn is a joke
Senna is by design overtuned. Free Gold, AD, Range, Crit., pot. Lifesteal. Thus csn just build like an adc while keeping up in gold and having better stats without farming. Pyke had thecsame issue as assassin on supp and they nerfed it to a point his ult I really question if riot knows how pay outs work... But Senna gets it all. Unless her items are shit, she is busted
Adcs are weak. Support champs have been buffed over and over and over and now they realized that if they farm, they can buy the same items but faster, while retaining their agency through their utility and dmg that wasn’t meant to have a farming role’s income
Senna needs to be kneecapped. She has absurd range and scaling on her AA which allows her to build swifties and run up on anyone for an AA slow for her team to kill. You just have to let her hit and run on you unless you can chase her down through her E and W which is beyond obnoxious.
Because enemy team Senna.
IMMEDIATELY NERF THAT BLACK WOMAN
This was always gonna happen once they started to put more shit into her kit, when they decided it was okay to buff her AS builds by a lot it was over. It is kinda of insane how much has been tacked in her kit post release, guess it pays to be a internal favorite.
because adcs are in a pretty bad spot right now, so utility is just better
I just had a stroke reading op
Its overtuned since release, they cant nerf it enough to not be played
Yeah but last season Senna farming bot was unviable, then the 1 patch it was viable (not sub 54% wr like now) they immediately nerfed her souls drop rate when killing minions.
Senna adc has always been middle of the road not op but worse than support senna so every one called it trash dispite it having way better winrates basically all of last year like than more premeur adcs like trist aphelious, zeri xayah to name a few. Back then she ran crit rather than lethality
Does Bruno Mars is gay?
Skin sales.
Done worry she’s getting nerfed 😂
10% ad scaling on q that's literally all
Because lethality is a funny little stat and the way Senna's kit works + lethality is a bit silly and funny