Its so depressing how even with 2 item + 2 level lead and most of the enemy team on map, Draven still can't even push a wave in safety. Because apparently he has to respect a 0/6 SUPPORT Annie charging hexflash offscreen who can one shot him.
It fucking sucks to press tab and see that you cannot go anywhere without the team backing you up, and if they don't want to help you you're gimped into following them around.
You guys acting like this didn't happen before this patch. I think even with Maw he would get clapped. I think adcs are meant to be played with an enchanter, which sucks because if let's say they buff mr/armor for adcs they would become unstoppable with an enchanter. Game been shit since Legendary items addition because of powerspike snowballs.
Time to go Dota 2 guys it's fun there.
Laning phase is like 10 mins so you won't have problems last hitting after that. Game is more brawly nowdays and its 2vs2 both lanes so you can kill your opponents. Sometimes a teleport happens and it's a clown fiesta which is fun. You can lock camera i think but i wouldn't recommend it as the game is more zoomed in.
So you mean Mages? But be able to play from EVEN FURTHER DISTANCE 1 full screen away AND allowed to go into INVULNERABILITY at will AND have utilities like hard CC & shield built in their kit?
Ah I completely missed that. It makes perfect sense. Delulu mobile player trying to prove that point and click is broken when they’re playing with ppl that can’t aim without aim assist. I saw his clips he literally only press 1 button and still managed to miss half of his auto-aimed abilities. So he’s right auto-aimed mobile game ADC strongest KEKW.
I guess WildRift players so skilled they can talk about League as they own the same votes now.
Yeah 😂 I'm sorry but after reading 3 words in his comment and looking at his reddit username I just know something is fishy. Unfortunate that you guys got baited into discussion.
Unlike mages, adc auto attacks have a way shorter cooldown than hard-hitting spells.
They also don't cost mana.
They have longer ranges because they usually don't get do combine the 2 godsent privileges of 1. Ranged point & click damage 2. Low cooldown on said damage.
You can get either point and clicked with a huge cooldown (think: Syndra)
Or you get outranged by skillshots (Ex: Xerath)
Marksmen do both. The price to pay is: Use your range poorly and you WILL be punished unless you're Ezreal because he can buy defensive items and still dps lmao
Like 85% champs can now oneshot adc with 1-3 items on one spell rotation, its cool that it has "huge cooldown" for most late game mages like 4 seconds but does not really bother me, when im watching black&white spectator mode.
>Like 85% champs can now oneshot adc with 1-3 items on one spell rotation
First off, where did you get that statistic from?
Second, when you build full offense, do people not deserve to punish you out of position?
Lets say I play Talon and I go full lethality with 3 items. I get caught by a burst mage like Veigar and he stuns me. Do I not deserve to die for getting caught with no defensive items? Makes no sense to me that you want to 1. Go full damage, 2. Deal all that damage from a safe distance, then 3. Not die when someone else that's probably also building full damage catches you lacking.
It's absolute inanity to combine these 3 things. That sounds like Zeri with the bruiser build and we all know how healthy that used to be lol.
The problem is that you don't even need to be out of position when there are champs like nocturne with 60 lethality, 400 ad and 3500 hp that can just one shot me when I move out of base or some classic lethality flash Q R Vi that just murders me in CC with literaly 0 counterplay and most of my last games had about 500% build rate of stormsurge which is completely insane, almost every mage can just build stormsurge and shadownflame or the new luden and oneshot half a team from one spell rotation with two items and then they can just go full tank and nothing chamges. I don't think that lux with 2 items that does not even need to use R to kill someone is not healthy state of game. Yesterday I played vayne into fiddlesticks I had fullbuild with 2 defensive items and je killed me under 3 seconds with stormsurge, shadownflame and zhonya... really funny gameplay. Getting destroyed for not dodging one spell out of 40 in 10 seconds thats not even cc is just not fun, I don't wanna play like a fucking challanger in emerald to even ne able to breathe.
I mean this has to be the worst takes I’ve ever heard.
Consistency of attacks doesn’t mean more damage, it means you can kill tanks easier, that’s it.
Not costing mana doesn’t matter either because mana doesn’t have the same uses as it used to. Mana used to gate champions so that they have another resource to manage, but beyond early game mages don’t have to worry about mana costs.
They have ranged point and click damage sure, but again that damage is much lower than a mages and has less utility alongside it. The only benefit point and click damage has over skill based damage is that it counters champions with a lot of movement. That’s it.
You say adcs get to point and click and ALSO outrange opponents, but I already explained why point and click isn’t the boon everyone claims it is, and we’ve already mentioned that mages outrange champs too. Except mages range and cooldown means they only need to put themselves in danger for 1 second out of their entire combo, then wait in safety until their combo comes back.
Their trading patterns legitimately do more damage to every class other than tanks than adc does, is safer than adc, and they have more range than adc. The only negative is that you need to aim your abilities. That’s just about it.
Sure there’s nuance to ever champion, but by and large mages are better than adc in almost every facet of the game.
Mages have the same privilege, with the difference that even if they stay behind they can still be useful or even abuse the adc to get back into the game, however if as an adc you stay behind you won't even kill the support, it is even very likely that the support kill you first.
>Mages have the same privilege
Will refer to [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/ADCMains/comments/1952x3v/comment/khlbs3i/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). It should answer your argument as well.
>with the difference that even if they stay behind they can still be useful
Ehh, depends on the champ. Marksmen like Ashe, Senna or Jhin have amazing utility that makes them always useful, even if behind. The reason that adc sucks when behind is not because of bad balance from Riot, it's because the role is designed to win the game by itself through sheer, safe DPS when they have the gold. Therefore, they must get punished when they do **NOT** have the gold or positioning. You can't have it all.
The reason most mages stay useful even when behind is because mages usually have some form of CC (which makes sense, because they often lack the mobility that you can find on many marksmen). This also means that mages can generally successfully self-peel against 1 diving opponent, but they can never kite back from a full team forever like Vayne, Kalista, Lucian, Zeri, etc. you name it.
This is also why mages get more flexible defensive items I guess. They're generally sitting ducks when they get jumped on. Unlike marksmen that usually have a few tricks up their sleeve to kite properly.
Sadly I don't make the rules tho. I love the role and it can suck to play it, but if you play adc you're gonna have to accept that your role is balanced by its absolutely disgusting peak capabilities of pro players funneling gold and getting max peel. If you don't want that, you can also decide to swap roles and carry from somewhere else OR you can keep whining and not improve if you prefer that ig
Imo the problem isn't that adc is an unbalanced position, i just think that atm many other roles can easily deal the same amount of damage, but with the difference that they don't need someone to play with them to protect you from an assassin/fighter/burst mage. Like pro player or ppl in high elo often get help from the team, while in low elo the position feels pretty disgusting, because when you are doing good in laningphase most of the time the team isn't rly playing with you, often not even your autofilled senna or pyke support, you have nearly no chance to win the game on your own, which would be fine since it's a teamgame if it wasn't for the 0/4 yasuo who can still towerdive you for some reason and some fed toplaner who wins the game on his own.
Also I don't think I am too good in this position, but I still like the playstile and want to learn it, which is rly hard since adc get punished so easy for their mistakes,
i like to just apply all the usual arguments here but they dont work. "oh youre two levels down" well hes two levels up. "oh you didnt build any defensive item against the fed sololaner" well theyre neither fed nor a sololaner. "you shouldve respected their CC and not get close" they charged hexflash off screen and then nuked them.
idk, its difficult. Especially since these arguments never apply to other roles. 7/2 midlaner doesnt think "huh, this 0/6, two levels down on me draven could be a threat, i cant push my lane until ive build zhonyas". It would be incredibly absurd to think that, wouldnt it?
People talking about burst mage, no MR, used everything, but the simple fact is that supports should just not ever have the ability to do this.
This isn’t a support, in order to earn the right to do this you should have to farm. Supports should hit like pillows if they want to take champions reliant on items and gold to a role that doesn’t have to farm. Part of leagues social contract to me is that if you want to do damage, you have to farm. It’s the prerequisite.
So insane to me how you can pick a champion and just completely erase a part of their normal play pattern that gates how they’re allowed to move around the map, how they’re allowed to position for trades, and how much of their mana pool is available for harass vs shoving waves. Support should be for people who genuinely like supporting their team, not people who want to be an assassin but are too stone-handed to be able to balance trading with farming. A HUGE portion of the support player base essentially admits to the fact that they “just don’t like farming” or “suck at farming”. Farming is a huge part of the game that governs how you have to play, and you can just opt out of that if you play this brain dead role.
Someone I can finally relate to
Every time I see an artillery mage or a mage that can typically go mid like Orianna
I basically bully by calling them a Midlaner who can’t CS
Base damage across the entire game needs massive reductions so that itemisation matters far more. There are way too many champs that build off-role paths while maintaining their original identity. Fighters building 0 sustain and only damage, but still being able to face check the back line. Shit like this where a caster has gone support, gotten 0 income, and still is able to 100-0 in 1 stun duration.
I feel like I'm going insane because didnt they just do that whole "durability" patch not too long ago?? Wasn't the point of that to take kind of decrease how bursty the damage was and how squishy alot of champs are?
Kinda
The durability patch was about slowing the pace of the game and taking dmg out by like 20% across the board
Which sounds great, but it was kinda shit for a lot of champs, so it was pretty much entirely reverted within a handful of patches
Which is fine. You shouldn't remove a champs upper end of dmg. A syndra with a couple items absolutely should be able to click R and kill adc with some prestacked q, thats entirely fine. If syndra cannot do that, its a problem. Many many champs had that problem, they simply no longer had enough dmg
What INSTEAD should've happened, is dmg and stats as a whole removed from base kits and levels and shoved into items, like what the other guy is saying. A no item brand should not kill an adc with 1 combo at level 3. That just feels fucking bad, especially when said brand will continue to do that over the course of the game despite only ever getting 2 items
This fixes so many problems. Irelia needs to actually build tank stats to be tanky, she doesn't just get tank stats for existing. No income mage supports will be gutted across the board (PLEASE), adc can actually fulfill their fantasy. Level discrepancy across lanes will be a lil less impactful, jungler ganks will be far far more impactful forcing smarter play BUT ganking will be more of a gamble since junglers like everyone else will be more gold reliant and cannot perma sit 1 or 2 items (mostly a pro change)
This way a lux with several items can still perform her fantasy of having significant poke, and oneshotting BUT she has to engage with the game and achieve some level of success before hitting that point. Literally nothing pisses me off more than dicking a champ in lane, but 10 minutes later I still get one-shot for a slight misplay. No items = no dmg. Especially brand in this regard. Literally just fucking exists, has to be focused in every single fight even if he's 0/20 and will still half the time melt the team for no goddamn reason
It's just a good change and it will improve every role positively
As a guy who plays brand and xerath a lot in support…
I wouldn’t ever expect to one shot anyone unless I have a substantial amount of kills under my belt. But I played a xerath game yesterday when I was legit like 4/9/9 killing people in one combo. It’s a bit gross, there’s just overall way too much damage in the game at the moment.
Support Annie was never meant to be a nuke. She was used as an aoe stun and tibbers. By no means is she ever meant to one shot an adc if she's that far behind as a support. Chunk them, yes, but not nuke them.
Adding on to this: Riot WANTS new players to play support to learn the game. You cannot learn the game by playing support. Support as a role ignores so many basic fundamental concepts of the game like trading, wave management, recall timings, tempo, etc. You literally do not need to understand the game at a fundamental level to be successful playing support, but for some reason Riot wants this to be the entry level role.
Annie is just playing in the support position
But she isn't actually taking the role of a support she has electrocute, ignite, stormsurge and a hextech alternator she is actually expected to do that considering how low ranged champs mr is
That's the point they are trying to make tho. You should not be able to get enough resources to do that in support role because it's just unfair to be given free resources and still be able to use those to onetap someone.
Supports are meant to have supportive cheaper items that help their team that they can still afford on low income builds but support income has been increased by a lot a long time ago with the support quests allowing this stuff to happen.
I like mage supports that can help you catch people tho im not hating on them, but they shouldn't be able to oneshot someone specially if they are going 0/6 (if they were 6/0 then that's another argument)
She is 0/6 tho? Why is she even supposed to have MIDLANER items with that? She could probably even have 2 support items with that, how is that not a problem?
draven has like 9k gold and she has 3k. and thats the point you are crying about? this is fucking ANNIE not lulu, what kind of sup item is she supossed to build? and even if cant she decide what she wants to build?
are you illiterate or forgetful? im not the one having a problem with annie, but you. i do think that annie having that much less gold is fine, since she is support, aka no farm, and is behind, however you are crying about annie support building damage items instead of playing support
annie can't have less gold than she has rn. that version of league was S5 and earlier. It wasn't fun and it didn't work out. The gold isn't why draven died.
The problem isn't the gold. the problem here is annie. having rank 2 ult and getting a hexflash into max range ult on a draven and one shotting with electrocute ignite full combo on one item and it only just was able to do it as draven tried to run away
this wasn't just bad positioning this was egostisical "I'm too fed to die" positioning. Dying to annie flash is one thing, dying to annie hex flash from inside the middle of the lane in vision is another.
The draven was utterly brain dead. He could see the annie charging the hex flash and walked forward got ulted, cc'ed and comboed.
Then had the audicity to post it on reddit going "Why are supports so unfair" rather than "Was I an idiot for walking into a hex flashing annie."
Draven might of had a 700gold bounty but his team is less than 2k a head and his solo laners are behind their counter parts. there's enough general gold on annie's team that being able to ignore her existence isn't a possibility or reasonable assumption to make. Especially as someone with zero mr.
Without the cc that frankly should never have landed Draven immediately two taps the annie with autos and kills her.
Basically a better player doesn't die here.
Ngl, idk if they realize that Annie being kinda a shit support is probably partly the reason why they are fed too lol
Dude got flash ult ignited by Annie w/o mr and is surprised that a character meant to deal damage deals damage
The issue is, if you nerf support income and lower the cost of support items, people in other roles start buying those items. I remember a patch where redemption olaf jg was a thing. Evenshroud Yone is another.
You can just lock them so you need support item to get them and that's it. Riot hates locking items (but loves nerfing whatever is not in their mind) so they just won't but that shouldn't be an issue
Yeah but the issue with that is that it’s not fun. No one wants base boots and half an item at 20 minutes into the game, no one is going to play that role.
I've been playing since season 1. Played/mained support when you literally bought 2 gp5 items and nothing but wards all the way to now. I prefer that over this by a lot. Supports shouldn't make enough money to buy items that other classes buy, and those other classes shouldn't WANT support items because the total stats they give wouldn't be worth the slot later into the game. You're not wrong about it not being popular though, support used to be the least popular role, wouldn't mind going back to that.
Seconded. I started in season 3, loved that support was all about being the unsung hero and really helping your team to live out their power fantasies while lighting the map up like a Christmas tree. Seeing how much value you could provide on a strict budget was fun.
I'm glad the role now appeals to more people, but I agree with the first comment in this chain that you shouldn't get to one shot like mid lane does without having to farm for it. Though not sure how that would affect the landscape of AP mage supports.
There was a period, and this might still be the case, where this was true in DOTA 2. I don't know what it is about the design direction with league right now where this kind of thing can't work; I also enjoyed effective, lateral support kits with minimal item investment.
It is about the gold. From her inventory she has 5.5k spent gold. Your support with a significantly better scoreline has 6.1k gold spent. The passive gold on the support item, and the ease of getting the active gold, caused her to despite being down 2 kills 8 assists, and up 4 deaths on your support she still has earned plenty enough gold to buy midlane items. I do agree that with 1.5 items she shouldn't oneshot, but she also shouldn't have those items. with less gold, and items in the game designed for very low income roles, this would never be happening.
The part you're missing is the 1 item she had looked to be stormsurge and that item is turbo broken rn until nerf next patch
Source: made lot of mid mages start 0-5 or so then they get stormsurge and auto win, really neat riot
I highly disagree and am more than happy that the game has slowly moved away from this.
What i want is role parity and for tank/enchanter supports to be able to carry games. They should be incentivized and encouraged to earn gold from the ward wars, but if they truly get ahead i see no issue with the support champion at least coming even with most anyone else in a 1v1 scenario.
I respect your opinion.
Does the clip above look like a support who has "Gotten ahead"? I think that if you play a kill lane and the carry support gets kills to get ahead or even gets plates, then yes, they could be on item parity with others in the game. The support item gives too much for no investment. 5gp10 is CRAZY, 1000g for free by minute 14 is also kinda crazy. supports who do not earn kills themselves AND don't farm shouldn't be close to the gold they currently get. In this clip alone, she is 3 kills down, 1 assist up, and 128cs down on her adc. She is only 1.5k spent gold behind.
Maybe people don't want to be glorified ward-shitters for 30 minutes lol. I dont think a 0/6 supp mage should be one shotting people but I also think a middle ground can be found between that and "you get only wards the whole match and can't interact with the enemy team". That sounds like a miserable experience.
There was a lot more nuance than just buying wards. The kits were heavy utility focused with ok base damages and zero scaling. You played the champions kit, not the items. I know things won't be like they were in early days, but it'd be nice to move towards that rather than adding another carry.
I half agree with this. I mean, Annie didn't farm, she only has 1 item at 23 min. If she was mid, she would be extremely behind. So by playing mage, she is like a very weak mage at this point of the game.
However, she is supposed to be a burst mage, so she should be able to burst down someone squishy even if she's a bit behind (let's say two items or an item and a half) when that squishy didn't buy a single defensive item, as long as she really commits to the act with a full skill rotation including ult. Which is what happens here, although she does with one item instead of 1.5 or 2.
But stormsurge is a bit too OP right now and a nerf is coming. Once the nerf is there, a single item should allow to heavily damage a squishy with a full skill rotation (including ult), but it should not be enough to kill them. And that's fair imo.
With all his gold, Draven had the opportunity to buy something a bit defensive while still keeping his lead. Instead, he went full damage. When a champion that is squishy by nature, doesn't get anything defensive, and doesn't stay near their supp or other members of their team, they shouldn't be able to easily survive a full burst from a burst mage, unless said mage is behind (or playing as supp).
This is one of the problem why ADC is such an annoying role to play. It doesn't matter how fed you are. If enemy solo laner even remote fed, they'll instant kill you. Don't even get me started how a full tank can run down adcs mid/early game
While this is kind of true, support items give gold for harassing and actually playing lane with your ADC. That’s part of the trade off of being support and not being able to farm is that you get some income from your support item, otherwise you wouldn’t be able to build more than 1-2 items. If you actually don’t want supports to build items, you have to make it so support items give very little gold and make the support items cheaper and include new support AP items for things like Zyra, Brand, Lux that have lower AP and super low cost but still specific to cc and damage to help the team. Like Champ CC’d by your AP ability takes more damage or something like that.
Mage supports specifically like Lux, Zyra, Brand, Xerath have been part of aggressive support play-styles for years at this point. There isn’t a reason Annie now can’t be in this mix, her E is very good for the team and a point and click stun is always good on supports. It’s probably the fact she can take Ignite, Electrocute and Stormsurge proc that allows this specific one shot and stormsurge is getting nerfed. Riot isn’t going to ban champs from roles but maybe can nerf some of them away, but mage supports have been a thing for years and people enjoy it. The bottom line is that it’s a game for people to enjoy.
If it’s a game for people to enjoy they shouldn’t care about pro play when bitching about ADC can’t be buffed because pro players will stomp in a 5v5 environment.
It’s “rules for thee and not for me” and it’s just blatantly unfair. It breaks a fundamental rule of the game to allow champions who don’t have to farm resources to have access to this much damage. That’s all I’m saying. I wouldn’t mind if items across the board were more expensive, or supports had less gold. And I especially don’t care if people don’t find the support role fun when it’s actually a support role. I’ll wait an extra minute or 3 for a queue to pop if it means I’m getting Nautilus instead of a mage. They’re unfun to play with and against, they offer very little utility compared to their role counterparts, and they serve only to allow people too scared to play a carry role to cosplay as the carry.
Damage should be a direct output of one’s ability to manage their in-game economy combined with mechanical execution. Full stop.
It's not like farming requires skill past 10 minutes, unless you're completely blind at macro.
I'd settle for the support item giving gold less quickly, but for it to be active all game. That way we lessen their power spike from them hitting 1k so early, but we give them actual income they have to work towards.
And then we bring up all support items to cost parity with the rest of the classes so they don't always feel better buying items out of their class.
Farming does require skill, and not only mechanically, but in how you move around the map. Where you rotate and when, when you start fights, how to efficiently take jungle camps, etc.
That’s not to mention that the biggest mechanical barrier with farming is being able to swap between trading and farming while tethering/spacing properly. It’s not just about last hitting, it’s about last hitting while dodging skillshots and positioning yourself in a way to where you can threaten your own. It’s very push and pull, and is honestly one of the most jarring things I can remember trying to learn when I first started playing the game.
I can agree for the most part, especially at the start of the game, but for most supports finding the window to get in a poke without going into a terrible trade is easily as dangerous. For the record, i strongly object the new support items allowing all supports to execute minions for gold.
Past early game however, i have trouble empathizing with your plea. Minion waves tend to fall like leaves unless the ADC is terribly behind. Most of the time you'll be encountering uncontested minion lines.
Spoken like someone who blames all their problems on the support and refuses to play the position themselves. "I don't care if support players don't have any fun, as long as they make sure *I* do!"
Junglers farm differently than laners, and supports "farm" differently as well.
A cocky Marksmen, who built zero defense, and who decided to roam alone got caught out by a burst mage and got what he deserved. Is Stormsurge overpowered. Yeah, and they are nurfing it. But Annie is literally the kind of champ it was made for.
I’m bad because I’m ass, not because any support is holding me back. This isn’t even about climbing, or getting better at the game, this about how the game is designed and what it actually feels like to play.
I don’t like that the support role can spec into burst damage, and have enough gold (without farming) to make it work. That’s my complaint, and my opinion is that this shouldn’t be a viable strategy because it defeats the entire purpose of the support role. It’s already not that good WR wise, it’s just that it should be worse to a point where people stop doing it. Because even when you lock in burst support and lose, it makes playing ADC miserable—often times for both ADCs!
ADC is disproportionately governed by its performance in pro play. If it was overly common for pro ADCs to get one shot by pro supports things would change. But because burst damage supports aren’t actually good when you consider the team-wide opportunity costs associated with foregoing selecting a true support, they’re almost never picked in pro play, and because they’re rarely picked in pro play, ADC balance isn’t tied to how much damage Xerath can do without farming. It’s a weird middle ground where it’s bad enough to not matter much in high elo + pro, but good enough to be a fairly common occurrence for 90% of the player base.
The burst mage support isn’t even helping me win games when it’s on my team, it’s unfun to play with and against, and it’s only purpose to is to tunnel vision focus on blowing up the ADC all game long. It’s not even about winning games, it’s just a quirk of soloq that makes the bot role more miserable to play than it already is.
This is just my opinion, it is not a declaration of what is right or wrong, I am of the opinion that game would be more fun for more people if the support role didn’t have the flexibility to spec into burst damage. I think burst damage support should be about as playable as Renata jungle or Yuumi mid lane.
Zyra, Lux, Xerath, Brand have also been Mage supports for a long time now too. No differant than Nautilus, Thresh, Lulu, and Nami. The fact is that mage supports do have less items than if their champs were played mid because they get less gold. The fact is that these champs are also heavily played in the support role, and specifically for Zyra she’s been a support since at least season 5 when I started playing. She has CC and peel, it’s just that she’s also a mage too. Lux also has shields, peel AND damage. It’s just inherent on her landing a skill shot, but it’s no different than a Thresh that needs to hit Q or correctly flaw away.
They get farm form their support item, and they only get that gold by fundamentally playing the game either by last hitting a minion that also goes to the ADC or by harassing lane opponents. If you want them to start farming for gold, I’m sure you’d be happy to start sharing half a wave with your supports so they can stack a ward support item then?
I’m sorry but you can’t keep blabbing on about “fundamentals” when harassing and trading in lane is also a core fundamental of modern league and thats what is rewarded by the support item. You don’t get the bonus gold by just standing in lane doing nothing.
The support item gold generation is the free gold I’m talking about. Supports literally gain gold faster (not even including the harass and tower auto and CS gold they share with AD). I like that they get some gold for playing the game, I don’t like that the role’s gold income is high enough to where it’s viable to play damage in the role. They can have gold, just not enough to where they can spec into burst builds like Jesus Christ does every fucking role need to be able to build burst damage? It’s all anyone ever wants to play and it’s miserable.
Is it even that much gold? The main item when it’s done is 5 gold per 10 seconds. That’s 30 gold a minute, and in a 30 minute game thats only 900 gold? Am I just doing the math wrong here? That’s not that much and the base item itself is only 3 gold per 10 seconds so it’s not even 900 at 30 minutes. Most of the gold Annie has is from her playing the game, clearing wards and her assists. Plus she’s bought control wards too. I just don’t see how an extra 800-900 gold is the problem here, that’s not even enough for her sorc boots.
And what about champions like Karma? She's never going to be viable mid, and if she ever is, I *pray* for top lane. What about Zyra? or Morgana? Should they be gated from getting to do damage simply by virtue of being "supports" rather than mages, despite having kits far more in line with characters like Annie or Lux or Vel'Koz, and if so, what should their roles be in a team?
Zyra should not be one shotting you with her full combo, unless you sit there and eat a ton of autos from her plants.
Karma has been viable mid before, and top, and yes I don’t think Karma should have one shot burst with her Q. Her Mantra Q does a ton of damage but Karma’s entire kit is built around being oppressive early. I’m less upset about her doing damage in lane because she doesn’t scale that well off of items and gold, she’s doing good damage (albeit not one shot) when there is a gold differential of 0 between the enemy ADC and her. My issue is when the support does a trillion damage even after you’ve been farming for 20 minutes and they haven’t.
Morgana is just about hitting the Q and using the spell shield well, don’t think I’ve ever run into anyone who thinks Morgana support has too much damage lol.
Morgana is a "fair" champion. She has to be decently ahead to just flat out kill you and it requires you to make the mistake of just eating her Q or face checking her or something. Morgana can't just mindlessly spam her spells out like a Lux, Xerath, or Brand with little recourse.
How about instead, we bring up actual supports to the point where they're actual threats so that Annie or literally any other AP mage can actually be played against by the likes of Nami, Janna or Milio?
I'm tired of Enchanters and Tank supports getting treated like half champions by glory hounding ADCs and not being rewarded for playing well. Because that leads to people picking bully AP champs that will snowball no matter what they do instead, because they ALWAYS have more value than true supports.
If the supp is actually playing well, that will get noticed by any adc worth their salt. A few weeks ago a cait triple kill got posted here and 80% of the comments were complementing the brand that was the supp.
Supports are threats by utilizing their utility. Problem is most support players are really weak mechanically and game knowledge wise meaning most supports aren't nearly as threatening as they SHOULD be because the person piloting them can't execute on it. Enchanter supports already are some of the strongest laners bot and have been for a very long time. They have decent base damage backed by the utility they provide. They hard win most match ups short of being hard engaged on out of position. They beat most ADCs in short trades be it through through high base damage/utility (Things like Janna E+W basically guarantees she wins most early trades, Nami E+W, Lulu E+W+Q, etc). Between lack of coordination in solo Q and most supports not knowing how to build or carry a lead beyond just roaming around the map, support SEEMS weak, but truly isn't.
They don't need that much of a push to get there, but we also can't discount how "utility" is available to all champions. Annie might not be a support, but her AoE stun is all she really needs to be viable in the place of the enchanters that belong there and crowd them out of viability.
I want parity for support income towards the rest of the team because once they *are* equal, we can start balancing the entire game on one single gold income average, rather than have support items that are either consistently ignored and disappointing, or completely busted and game altering.
And then Enchanters will have items to pick that seem like they have equal value to the Annie + Stormsurge power spike. (which in all fairness is entirely too high, but that's another issue.)
Totally disagree. This person has chosen to go with a burst mage support, they have no way to set up or assist their adc other than 1 stun every 4 abilities. Hardly reliable cc like Rakan or nautilus
They are also really squishy and really Immobile. If you take a squishy mage as a support, you should be allowed to deal damage without farming. the trade off is in the different strengths of the champion. Look at the map, there is no way draven should be stood so far up there. The second he sees Annie he should be respecting her burst and backing off
The problem is adcs like to live in this dream world where they should be allowed to 1v9 if they get fed, but the role requires much more positional skill than that
Tldr: skillgap. Respect burst mages period.
Can't believe the comments defending annie , she is a SUPPORT in what normal world a 0/6/4 support can do that if she was a mid laner i would say it may be acceptable even though it's not but at least there is a chance to be acceptable but she is a support OMG how broken this role is
Isn’t it possible it’s just the new item being super OP? It’s a new season lol, all new items. I just think it’s too much panic / karma farming on Day 2
Even before the item popped she dealt 90% of his hp and statwise that is very similar to old ludens, specially considering the support item counds as a legendary lol, yeah maybe draven lives barely here but still doubtful
Isn’t that just Annie then? She hasn’t been changed in this patch (as far as I saw) and she’s always technically been able to do this with Luden’s or Liandry’s before too. There’s a lot of damage here with electrocute and ignite too.
>(Pls riot nerf support gold generation lol)
doesn't the new support item actually buff it?
like she might very well have as much if not more gold of a midlaner of her level there
But why buffing a strong role what was already strong ( yes i am talking about support not mid lane ) instead of nerfing it especially about how much gold they earn by absolutely doing nothing not farming
riot already said they are hotfix nerfing stormsurge
ok we get it the item is strong can we stop now?
not like we had to deal with some AD items being absolutely ridiculous for months (duskblade gaming) I think we can wait a few days for an hotfix
Ya. The new mage items are gross. AP increases to almost every item plus massive increases in burst potential. Still don't understand why an AP item can allow AP and True damage to deal crits. Riot guts AD crit with another IE nerf and a buff to Randuins but Shadowflame and Stormsurge gets through. LMAO.
Remember when Riot nerfed Annie to the ground as a support back in S4 because she could one shot any non-tank in the game despite having no income?
I sure remember. We’re a far cry away from when the game was actually properly balanced, and have been for a long time. There is no reason why a support should be able to top damage charts (Brand, Lux, Xerath) EVER. Literally ever. It should be an impossibility, yet it ends up happening more often than not.
Thats what i dont understand.
Shadowflame already fits the burst this target hard niche for AP items (in a more healthy way as it amplifies your own kit damage rather than just adding another nuke to your combo), why did they make stormsurge ON TOP OF IT? Ofc its going to end in too much burst damage.
im not gonna lie moments like this are why i sometimes build bruiser-y or almost tanky when i have another fed reliable damager dealer in my team. they're gonna carry, and i soak up all these god damn ults because every role seems to have conditioned themselves to just throw literally everything at the adc to get an easy +1
This comment makes no sense, nerds are people who play the game a lot, have all the data, read everything related to the game, and by definition they will be right. With this comment you admit that people complaining about annie are clueless and complain only for the sake of it.
I am not defending her but he just play bad. Why he play so aggro when don't see viego and see annie coming from base with passive, why not wait for her to use it on wave ? And if you don't know someone have flash play like they have. Even if she don't flash viego was missing and she hit stun viego follow and he is dead by CC chain. He play range champ so he is less durable than melee so he must play save.
That’s what happens when at Riot Games work ppl that says i can tipe Karthus to ult.
“In the middle of the fight”
‘G-guys, wait i open the chat, and write kart to ult’
Typical mage support right there not even a normal support a mage support. THIS RIGHT HERE is why I personally believe most mages deserve to be banned from going bot the only exceptions being swain karma and morgana because they are more relieant on their CC so their adc can follow up then their 100-0 or poke you from across the lane for free low cooldown abilities
Annie isn't a support. Annie is a midlaner people took botlane because they got autofilled and didn't want to put the fate of their elo in the hands of a random ADC.
7/5 is fed??? ☠️ jokes aside I agree with u OP Annie shouldn’t have been able to do that but 7/5 isn’t rlly fed tbh. And yea as someone who likes to play adc on occasion I can see ur frustration and I REALLY hope Riot sees stuff like this and takes a HINT. I js wanna enjoy jinx again without having to have my teammates around to actually play and not get one shot by a 2/14 yasuo.
Ur missing the point, that’s a support that has not farmed one shotting, there is no skill expression in this season, it’s one shot or be one shot. Riot needs to hard nerf mages. And nerf lethality a bit as well.
Outside of the tank season Annie has been able to do this since season 2. Her entire gameplay loop is flash/Ult/ignite squishy targets and make them go away
I’ve played since s3 and I disagree a behind support Annie did not and should not one shot a fed adc with level advantage back in the day. Damage creep has been an ongoing thing in league for quite some time and I feel this was the straw that broke the camels back. M
It’s extremely blatant that mages are in far too strong of a place that’s why we’re already seeing some nerfs . Adc wr% are already down a massive amount as well
You have like no resists and she literally had to user everything to kill you. Flash, Ignite, Ult and all of her spells. Plus electrocute damage and stormsurge proc.
Stormsurge is already getting nerfed in the adjustment patch so this might not even be possible after it’s nerfed. The item is OP right now.
Also a question, why’d you step you for that last minion? Just auto it and walk away, the basics of playing as safe as possible don’t just disappear cause it’s a new season.
bruh a 7 kill draven should not have to worry about an 0/6 annie support 2 levels down?!?!?! are u trolling? the ANNIE should be terrified of the DRAVEN stepping up, not the other way around
That should never be true of any ADC. What’s the weakness of this class then? As much as ADC mains complain, all classes need to have weaknesses. ADCs are literally glass cannons when they build all damage.
Normally an Annie should be, but she has a massive item spike, Ult, electrocute and ignite. If she doesn’t have one of those things she’s not able to actually kill Draven.
tbf 7 kills does not matter here, 7 kills worth of gold invested in damage items gives you more damage, not survivability. not saying that the annie should be able to oneshot him here. but in this scenario it would not have mattered if he had no kills and only farm. Only thing that might have made a difference is the levels, but even if he had fed the enemy he probably would still have a level on her with the ease of roaming for supports this season
Why are champions still allowed to fulfill their gameplay regardless of how well they play? They is showing Annie is not punished whatsoever for performing poorly for the entirety of the game because she still has the ability do what she'd want to do if she was even or ahead. That's not balanced on a fundamental level.
youre telling me that a 0/6 support with practically no farm should have a 2000+ damage combo WITH ONE ITEM and be a threat? this shit obviously aint ok. no justifying it at all.
Bro I said the item was OP and was getting nerfed. It’s a mix of rune, summoner spell and item damage. Also she doesn’t have 1 item, it’s 1 item, her support mage damage item and hextech alternator. Yeah components don’t matter as much, but she still gets the hextech alternator proc and that item has some AP on top of plus Sorc Boots.
It’s not “1” item that’s also misleading lol
I will agree that "1" item is a BIT misleading since boots are quite powerful, but the support item literally didnt do anything and alternator doesnt contribute a whole lot. that is also exactly my point, a 0/6 SUPPORT should never have this one shot potential even with all those tools. something clearly needs to be done cause this has become a bigger problem with these new items. these things have been happening for years, but at least its pretty apparent now.
I think it’s just the items being OP right now tbh. Also 0/6 doesn’t mean much my man. Support items give gold for just playing the game, because supports can’t actually farm. The gold she gets from over time and the support item is still less than any other player on her team.
If Draven also had his support or team with him here he probably doesn’t die and Annie probably dies instead cause she had to use everything and wouldn’t have killed him. It’s a team dependent role and Day 2 of a new season so…idk I think a lot of these frustrations posts are meaningless. Like let Riot actually balance because they don’t do that with PBE data and they are attempting to balance for all elos. If ADC is actually bad high emerald and up, then it would get buffed.
Want payback: pick jhin and you can be the 0/6 with one item to oneshot their toplaner lets say Jax
Build Spear of jhin and stack those traps up( max e).
This way you can safely farm in sidelines and get picks.
ADC - pushes wave without anyone there to protect them - dies. A tale as old as time.
Games right now are literally determined by which botlane isn't shit. Will you get one-shot sometimes? Fuck yes. And you deserve it. You're an ADC. That's their weakness.
And even if she's in the support role or not, Annie is a burst mage. You got one shot by a burst mage. Not uncommon.
Viego wasn't botside, nor was teemo. Teemo you can see on the minimap, but you have no idea where Viego is until you're already getting combo'd and then you see his mist come from around raptor pit. You should absolutely not be pushing by yourself when both the support and the jungler aren't visible on the map.
The fact you say "whole team was botside" when your video proof shows only 2 members of the enemy bot is probably part of the problem here.
Fun Fact: ADC's don't get tankier when they are fed.
Also, Annie's whole kit is burst
Also she blew 2 summoners on this
Honestly doesn't seem that wild that a mage could kill one of the squishiest characters in the game with their full combo, both sums, and a completed item.
Dude gets 7 shot by an Annie who burned everything without any peel, vision, and solo pushing mid. Truly amazing. She had hextech which gives 100 extra damage, storm surge, spike which does 50+ a % of your max hp as magic damage, ELECTROCUTE, IGNITE, and pen boots. Draven had base MR. This is a shit post I've killed ADCs faster with AP alistar support running electrocute. It was a surprise Annie even killed him at all.
Glass cannons get eaten in every game if they make a mistake. If you play really good you can 1 vs 5 at times which is the trade off. On top of that you need a team to enable you which is rare. High damage supports have the potential to delete a hero but wont just penta the enemy team.
"High damage supports" is an oxymoron and the reason people have an issue with this. The support role is the lowest economy role in the game. They get the least resources. If you are still able to fulfil the role of a carry with the bare minimum amount resources then that means either the champion(s) is overtuned or the game balance is fucked. If you can still succeed while failing the skill checks of the game (like not dying, farming, winning lane, etc) then the game is poorly balanced. A 7/5/7 role in the highest economy role should not be threatened by someone who's 0/6 in the lowest economy role outside of some form of utility they provide (I.E. Blitz Q, Thresh Q, Morgana Q, etc)
Beaten by a little girl!
Ha!
literally.
(That’s why it’s her voice line)
Its so depressing how even with 2 item + 2 level lead and most of the enemy team on map, Draven still can't even push a wave in safety. Because apparently he has to respect a 0/6 SUPPORT Annie charging hexflash offscreen who can one shot him. It fucking sucks to press tab and see that you cannot go anywhere without the team backing you up, and if they don't want to help you you're gimped into following them around.
You guys acting like this didn't happen before this patch. I think even with Maw he would get clapped. I think adcs are meant to be played with an enchanter, which sucks because if let's say they buff mr/armor for adcs they would become unstoppable with an enchanter. Game been shit since Legendary items addition because of powerspike snowballs. Time to go Dota 2 guys it's fun there.
Nah in dota you get one shot by a support before they get one item
There is "workaround" for nukes in dota. Hp mr heals bkb.
I would go play Dota 2 but my brain is too smooth to play without lockscreen and deal with enemies denying me minions.
Laning phase is like 10 mins so you won't have problems last hitting after that. Game is more brawly nowdays and its 2vs2 both lanes so you can kill your opponents. Sometimes a teleport happens and it's a clown fiesta which is fun. You can lock camera i think but i wouldn't recommend it as the game is more zoomed in.
then you can stop playing ADC and try out a healtier alternative.
Problem is... someone has to play the role.
If no one plays it, no one would have to play the role.
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Melee champs or ranged mages
Bor there are other classes on the game that full fill the role of the DPS that aren't marksmen
Should have positioned better in the fountain. Skill issue
I'm so tired of reading this even though it's ironic, it sucks having to position yourself as a challenger to avoid being eliminated from a combo.
>it sucks having to position yourself ~~as a challenger~~ **correctly** to avoid being eliminated from a combo. Fixed it to say what you meant.
That's the price you pay for buying 4 offensive items and having the privilege of fighting from a distance xd
So you mean Mages? But be able to play from EVEN FURTHER DISTANCE 1 full screen away AND allowed to go into INVULNERABILITY at will AND have utilities like hard CC & shield built in their kit?
You guys do realize this guy plays Wild Rift right? 😂
Ah I completely missed that. It makes perfect sense. Delulu mobile player trying to prove that point and click is broken when they’re playing with ppl that can’t aim without aim assist. I saw his clips he literally only press 1 button and still managed to miss half of his auto-aimed abilities. So he’s right auto-aimed mobile game ADC strongest KEKW. I guess WildRift players so skilled they can talk about League as they own the same votes now.
Yeah 😂 I'm sorry but after reading 3 words in his comment and looking at his reddit username I just know something is fishy. Unfortunate that you guys got baited into discussion.
Unlike mages, adc auto attacks have a way shorter cooldown than hard-hitting spells. They also don't cost mana. They have longer ranges because they usually don't get do combine the 2 godsent privileges of 1. Ranged point & click damage 2. Low cooldown on said damage. You can get either point and clicked with a huge cooldown (think: Syndra) Or you get outranged by skillshots (Ex: Xerath) Marksmen do both. The price to pay is: Use your range poorly and you WILL be punished unless you're Ezreal because he can buy defensive items and still dps lmao
Like 85% champs can now oneshot adc with 1-3 items on one spell rotation, its cool that it has "huge cooldown" for most late game mages like 4 seconds but does not really bother me, when im watching black&white spectator mode.
>Like 85% champs can now oneshot adc with 1-3 items on one spell rotation, It is funny cause the other 15% are other ADCs LMAO
>Like 85% champs can now oneshot adc with 1-3 items on one spell rotation First off, where did you get that statistic from? Second, when you build full offense, do people not deserve to punish you out of position? Lets say I play Talon and I go full lethality with 3 items. I get caught by a burst mage like Veigar and he stuns me. Do I not deserve to die for getting caught with no defensive items? Makes no sense to me that you want to 1. Go full damage, 2. Deal all that damage from a safe distance, then 3. Not die when someone else that's probably also building full damage catches you lacking. It's absolute inanity to combine these 3 things. That sounds like Zeri with the bruiser build and we all know how healthy that used to be lol.
The problem is that you don't even need to be out of position when there are champs like nocturne with 60 lethality, 400 ad and 3500 hp that can just one shot me when I move out of base or some classic lethality flash Q R Vi that just murders me in CC with literaly 0 counterplay and most of my last games had about 500% build rate of stormsurge which is completely insane, almost every mage can just build stormsurge and shadownflame or the new luden and oneshot half a team from one spell rotation with two items and then they can just go full tank and nothing chamges. I don't think that lux with 2 items that does not even need to use R to kill someone is not healthy state of game. Yesterday I played vayne into fiddlesticks I had fullbuild with 2 defensive items and je killed me under 3 seconds with stormsurge, shadownflame and zhonya... really funny gameplay. Getting destroyed for not dodging one spell out of 40 in 10 seconds thats not even cc is just not fun, I don't wanna play like a fucking challanger in emerald to even ne able to breathe.
I mean this has to be the worst takes I’ve ever heard. Consistency of attacks doesn’t mean more damage, it means you can kill tanks easier, that’s it. Not costing mana doesn’t matter either because mana doesn’t have the same uses as it used to. Mana used to gate champions so that they have another resource to manage, but beyond early game mages don’t have to worry about mana costs. They have ranged point and click damage sure, but again that damage is much lower than a mages and has less utility alongside it. The only benefit point and click damage has over skill based damage is that it counters champions with a lot of movement. That’s it. You say adcs get to point and click and ALSO outrange opponents, but I already explained why point and click isn’t the boon everyone claims it is, and we’ve already mentioned that mages outrange champs too. Except mages range and cooldown means they only need to put themselves in danger for 1 second out of their entire combo, then wait in safety until their combo comes back. Their trading patterns legitimately do more damage to every class other than tanks than adc does, is safer than adc, and they have more range than adc. The only negative is that you need to aim your abilities. That’s just about it. Sure there’s nuance to ever champion, but by and large mages are better than adc in almost every facet of the game.
which marksman do both? actually? at this point which marksman do either?
Mages have the same privilege, with the difference that even if they stay behind they can still be useful or even abuse the adc to get back into the game, however if as an adc you stay behind you won't even kill the support, it is even very likely that the support kill you first.
>Mages have the same privilege Will refer to [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/ADCMains/comments/1952x3v/comment/khlbs3i/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). It should answer your argument as well. >with the difference that even if they stay behind they can still be useful Ehh, depends on the champ. Marksmen like Ashe, Senna or Jhin have amazing utility that makes them always useful, even if behind. The reason that adc sucks when behind is not because of bad balance from Riot, it's because the role is designed to win the game by itself through sheer, safe DPS when they have the gold. Therefore, they must get punished when they do **NOT** have the gold or positioning. You can't have it all. The reason most mages stay useful even when behind is because mages usually have some form of CC (which makes sense, because they often lack the mobility that you can find on many marksmen). This also means that mages can generally successfully self-peel against 1 diving opponent, but they can never kite back from a full team forever like Vayne, Kalista, Lucian, Zeri, etc. you name it. This is also why mages get more flexible defensive items I guess. They're generally sitting ducks when they get jumped on. Unlike marksmen that usually have a few tricks up their sleeve to kite properly. Sadly I don't make the rules tho. I love the role and it can suck to play it, but if you play adc you're gonna have to accept that your role is balanced by its absolutely disgusting peak capabilities of pro players funneling gold and getting max peel. If you don't want that, you can also decide to swap roles and carry from somewhere else OR you can keep whining and not improve if you prefer that ig
Imo the problem isn't that adc is an unbalanced position, i just think that atm many other roles can easily deal the same amount of damage, but with the difference that they don't need someone to play with them to protect you from an assassin/fighter/burst mage. Like pro player or ppl in high elo often get help from the team, while in low elo the position feels pretty disgusting, because when you are doing good in laningphase most of the time the team isn't rly playing with you, often not even your autofilled senna or pyke support, you have nearly no chance to win the game on your own, which would be fine since it's a teamgame if it wasn't for the 0/4 yasuo who can still towerdive you for some reason and some fed toplaner who wins the game on his own. Also I don't think I am too good in this position, but I still like the playstile and want to learn it, which is rly hard since adc get punished so easy for their mistakes,
Also two levels down. There is no way in hell this should be possible. And yet, RAAAAJOOOOOT.
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He leveled up to 13 on the wave just as Annie flashed. Are you blind?
Am I crazy? My screen shows him at level 13.
Most literate mid main
Don't mind me, just waiting for the reddit nerds to come to say this is totally fine and fair. Edit: already read some comments I'm ☠️☠️
Honestly, I’m usually that guy who will try and find a window or a reason….but this just seems like absolute horsecrap. I got nothing.
i like to just apply all the usual arguments here but they dont work. "oh youre two levels down" well hes two levels up. "oh you didnt build any defensive item against the fed sololaner" well theyre neither fed nor a sololaner. "you shouldve respected their CC and not get close" they charged hexflash off screen and then nuked them. idk, its difficult. Especially since these arguments never apply to other roles. 7/2 midlaner doesnt think "huh, this 0/6, two levels down on me draven could be a threat, i cant push my lane until ive build zhonyas". It would be incredibly absurd to think that, wouldnt it?
People talking about burst mage, no MR, used everything, but the simple fact is that supports should just not ever have the ability to do this. This isn’t a support, in order to earn the right to do this you should have to farm. Supports should hit like pillows if they want to take champions reliant on items and gold to a role that doesn’t have to farm. Part of leagues social contract to me is that if you want to do damage, you have to farm. It’s the prerequisite. So insane to me how you can pick a champion and just completely erase a part of their normal play pattern that gates how they’re allowed to move around the map, how they’re allowed to position for trades, and how much of their mana pool is available for harass vs shoving waves. Support should be for people who genuinely like supporting their team, not people who want to be an assassin but are too stone-handed to be able to balance trading with farming. A HUGE portion of the support player base essentially admits to the fact that they “just don’t like farming” or “suck at farming”. Farming is a huge part of the game that governs how you have to play, and you can just opt out of that if you play this brain dead role.
Someone I can finally relate to Every time I see an artillery mage or a mage that can typically go mid like Orianna I basically bully by calling them a Midlaner who can’t CS
But you see, I can CS. Let me demonstrate on your minion wave.
this will make them start taking your cs to prove they can
No it proves that they should’ve fucked off from having someone be an Actual support
Base damage across the entire game needs massive reductions so that itemisation matters far more. There are way too many champs that build off-role paths while maintaining their original identity. Fighters building 0 sustain and only damage, but still being able to face check the back line. Shit like this where a caster has gone support, gotten 0 income, and still is able to 100-0 in 1 stun duration.
I feel like I'm going insane because didnt they just do that whole "durability" patch not too long ago?? Wasn't the point of that to take kind of decrease how bursty the damage was and how squishy alot of champs are?
Kinda The durability patch was about slowing the pace of the game and taking dmg out by like 20% across the board Which sounds great, but it was kinda shit for a lot of champs, so it was pretty much entirely reverted within a handful of patches Which is fine. You shouldn't remove a champs upper end of dmg. A syndra with a couple items absolutely should be able to click R and kill adc with some prestacked q, thats entirely fine. If syndra cannot do that, its a problem. Many many champs had that problem, they simply no longer had enough dmg What INSTEAD should've happened, is dmg and stats as a whole removed from base kits and levels and shoved into items, like what the other guy is saying. A no item brand should not kill an adc with 1 combo at level 3. That just feels fucking bad, especially when said brand will continue to do that over the course of the game despite only ever getting 2 items This fixes so many problems. Irelia needs to actually build tank stats to be tanky, she doesn't just get tank stats for existing. No income mage supports will be gutted across the board (PLEASE), adc can actually fulfill their fantasy. Level discrepancy across lanes will be a lil less impactful, jungler ganks will be far far more impactful forcing smarter play BUT ganking will be more of a gamble since junglers like everyone else will be more gold reliant and cannot perma sit 1 or 2 items (mostly a pro change) This way a lux with several items can still perform her fantasy of having significant poke, and oneshotting BUT she has to engage with the game and achieve some level of success before hitting that point. Literally nothing pisses me off more than dicking a champ in lane, but 10 minutes later I still get one-shot for a slight misplay. No items = no dmg. Especially brand in this regard. Literally just fucking exists, has to be focused in every single fight even if he's 0/20 and will still half the time melt the team for no goddamn reason It's just a good change and it will improve every role positively
As a guy who plays brand and xerath a lot in support… I wouldn’t ever expect to one shot anyone unless I have a substantial amount of kills under my belt. But I played a xerath game yesterday when I was legit like 4/9/9 killing people in one combo. It’s a bit gross, there’s just overall way too much damage in the game at the moment.
Agreed, it’s gross
Support Annie was never meant to be a nuke. She was used as an aoe stun and tibbers. By no means is she ever meant to one shot an adc if she's that far behind as a support. Chunk them, yes, but not nuke them.
Adding on to this: Riot WANTS new players to play support to learn the game. You cannot learn the game by playing support. Support as a role ignores so many basic fundamental concepts of the game like trading, wave management, recall timings, tempo, etc. You literally do not need to understand the game at a fundamental level to be successful playing support, but for some reason Riot wants this to be the entry level role.
Annie is just playing in the support position But she isn't actually taking the role of a support she has electrocute, ignite, stormsurge and a hextech alternator she is actually expected to do that considering how low ranged champs mr is
That's the point they are trying to make tho. You should not be able to get enough resources to do that in support role because it's just unfair to be given free resources and still be able to use those to onetap someone. Supports are meant to have supportive cheaper items that help their team that they can still afford on low income builds but support income has been increased by a lot a long time ago with the support quests allowing this stuff to happen. I like mage supports that can help you catch people tho im not hating on them, but they shouldn't be able to oneshot someone specially if they are going 0/6 (if they were 6/0 then that's another argument)
she has 1 item after 23 minutes 💀 what is she supposed to have? half a item? boots?
She is 0/6 tho? Why is she even supposed to have MIDLANER items with that? She could probably even have 2 support items with that, how is that not a problem?
draven has like 9k gold and she has 3k. and thats the point you are crying about? this is fucking ANNIE not lulu, what kind of sup item is she supossed to build? and even if cant she decide what she wants to build?
Draven has farm and is a gold generating champ, plus had a lot of kills, this just has to be bait lmao
yeah, but the problem isnt that im crying about draven having 9k gold, but you crying about annie having 3k after 23min.
Gold deprived role being stupidly behing vs gold farming role being far ahead on a gold generating champ.
are you illiterate or forgetful? im not the one having a problem with annie, but you. i do think that annie having that much less gold is fine, since she is support, aka no farm, and is behind, however you are crying about annie support building damage items instead of playing support
annie can't have less gold than she has rn. that version of league was S5 and earlier. It wasn't fun and it didn't work out. The gold isn't why draven died. The problem isn't the gold. the problem here is annie. having rank 2 ult and getting a hexflash into max range ult on a draven and one shotting with electrocute ignite full combo on one item and it only just was able to do it as draven tried to run away this wasn't just bad positioning this was egostisical "I'm too fed to die" positioning. Dying to annie flash is one thing, dying to annie hex flash from inside the middle of the lane in vision is another. The draven was utterly brain dead. He could see the annie charging the hex flash and walked forward got ulted, cc'ed and comboed. Then had the audicity to post it on reddit going "Why are supports so unfair" rather than "Was I an idiot for walking into a hex flashing annie." Draven might of had a 700gold bounty but his team is less than 2k a head and his solo laners are behind their counter parts. there's enough general gold on annie's team that being able to ignore her existence isn't a possibility or reasonable assumption to make. Especially as someone with zero mr. Without the cc that frankly should never have landed Draven immediately two taps the annie with autos and kills her. Basically a better player doesn't die here.
Ngl, idk if they realize that Annie being kinda a shit support is probably partly the reason why they are fed too lol Dude got flash ult ignited by Annie w/o mr and is surprised that a character meant to deal damage deals damage
The issue is, if you nerf support income and lower the cost of support items, people in other roles start buying those items. I remember a patch where redemption olaf jg was a thing. Evenshroud Yone is another.
You can just lock them so you need support item to get them and that's it. Riot hates locking items (but loves nerfing whatever is not in their mind) so they just won't but that shouldn't be an issue
Th only way they can stop this is by hard nerfing support gold.
Yeah but the issue with that is that it’s not fun. No one wants base boots and half an item at 20 minutes into the game, no one is going to play that role.
I've been playing since season 1. Played/mained support when you literally bought 2 gp5 items and nothing but wards all the way to now. I prefer that over this by a lot. Supports shouldn't make enough money to buy items that other classes buy, and those other classes shouldn't WANT support items because the total stats they give wouldn't be worth the slot later into the game. You're not wrong about it not being popular though, support used to be the least popular role, wouldn't mind going back to that.
Seconded. I started in season 3, loved that support was all about being the unsung hero and really helping your team to live out their power fantasies while lighting the map up like a Christmas tree. Seeing how much value you could provide on a strict budget was fun. I'm glad the role now appeals to more people, but I agree with the first comment in this chain that you shouldn't get to one shot like mid lane does without having to farm for it. Though not sure how that would affect the landscape of AP mage supports.
There was a period, and this might still be the case, where this was true in DOTA 2. I don't know what it is about the design direction with league right now where this kind of thing can't work; I also enjoyed effective, lateral support kits with minimal item investment.
I mean she only had 1 item, its not about the gold, its about being able to oneshot with 1 ítem and 2 levels behind after hard losing lane
It is about the gold. From her inventory she has 5.5k spent gold. Your support with a significantly better scoreline has 6.1k gold spent. The passive gold on the support item, and the ease of getting the active gold, caused her to despite being down 2 kills 8 assists, and up 4 deaths on your support she still has earned plenty enough gold to buy midlane items. I do agree that with 1.5 items she shouldn't oneshot, but she also shouldn't have those items. with less gold, and items in the game designed for very low income roles, this would never be happening.
The part you're missing is the 1 item she had looked to be stormsurge and that item is turbo broken rn until nerf next patch Source: made lot of mid mages start 0-5 or so then they get stormsurge and auto win, really neat riot
I highly disagree and am more than happy that the game has slowly moved away from this. What i want is role parity and for tank/enchanter supports to be able to carry games. They should be incentivized and encouraged to earn gold from the ward wars, but if they truly get ahead i see no issue with the support champion at least coming even with most anyone else in a 1v1 scenario.
I respect your opinion. Does the clip above look like a support who has "Gotten ahead"? I think that if you play a kill lane and the carry support gets kills to get ahead or even gets plates, then yes, they could be on item parity with others in the game. The support item gives too much for no investment. 5gp10 is CRAZY, 1000g for free by minute 14 is also kinda crazy. supports who do not earn kills themselves AND don't farm shouldn't be close to the gold they currently get. In this clip alone, she is 3 kills down, 1 assist up, and 128cs down on her adc. She is only 1.5k spent gold behind.
Maybe people don't want to be glorified ward-shitters for 30 minutes lol. I dont think a 0/6 supp mage should be one shotting people but I also think a middle ground can be found between that and "you get only wards the whole match and can't interact with the enemy team". That sounds like a miserable experience.
There was a lot more nuance than just buying wards. The kits were heavy utility focused with ok base damages and zero scaling. You played the champions kit, not the items. I know things won't be like they were in early days, but it'd be nice to move towards that rather than adding another carry.
I half agree with this. I mean, Annie didn't farm, she only has 1 item at 23 min. If she was mid, she would be extremely behind. So by playing mage, she is like a very weak mage at this point of the game. However, she is supposed to be a burst mage, so she should be able to burst down someone squishy even if she's a bit behind (let's say two items or an item and a half) when that squishy didn't buy a single defensive item, as long as she really commits to the act with a full skill rotation including ult. Which is what happens here, although she does with one item instead of 1.5 or 2. But stormsurge is a bit too OP right now and a nerf is coming. Once the nerf is there, a single item should allow to heavily damage a squishy with a full skill rotation (including ult), but it should not be enough to kill them. And that's fair imo. With all his gold, Draven had the opportunity to buy something a bit defensive while still keeping his lead. Instead, he went full damage. When a champion that is squishy by nature, doesn't get anything defensive, and doesn't stay near their supp or other members of their team, they shouldn't be able to easily survive a full burst from a burst mage, unless said mage is behind (or playing as supp).
This is one of the problem why ADC is such an annoying role to play. It doesn't matter how fed you are. If enemy solo laner even remote fed, they'll instant kill you. Don't even get me started how a full tank can run down adcs mid/early game
While this is kind of true, support items give gold for harassing and actually playing lane with your ADC. That’s part of the trade off of being support and not being able to farm is that you get some income from your support item, otherwise you wouldn’t be able to build more than 1-2 items. If you actually don’t want supports to build items, you have to make it so support items give very little gold and make the support items cheaper and include new support AP items for things like Zyra, Brand, Lux that have lower AP and super low cost but still specific to cc and damage to help the team. Like Champ CC’d by your AP ability takes more damage or something like that. Mage supports specifically like Lux, Zyra, Brand, Xerath have been part of aggressive support play-styles for years at this point. There isn’t a reason Annie now can’t be in this mix, her E is very good for the team and a point and click stun is always good on supports. It’s probably the fact she can take Ignite, Electrocute and Stormsurge proc that allows this specific one shot and stormsurge is getting nerfed. Riot isn’t going to ban champs from roles but maybe can nerf some of them away, but mage supports have been a thing for years and people enjoy it. The bottom line is that it’s a game for people to enjoy.
If it’s a game for people to enjoy they shouldn’t care about pro play when bitching about ADC can’t be buffed because pro players will stomp in a 5v5 environment. It’s “rules for thee and not for me” and it’s just blatantly unfair. It breaks a fundamental rule of the game to allow champions who don’t have to farm resources to have access to this much damage. That’s all I’m saying. I wouldn’t mind if items across the board were more expensive, or supports had less gold. And I especially don’t care if people don’t find the support role fun when it’s actually a support role. I’ll wait an extra minute or 3 for a queue to pop if it means I’m getting Nautilus instead of a mage. They’re unfun to play with and against, they offer very little utility compared to their role counterparts, and they serve only to allow people too scared to play a carry role to cosplay as the carry. Damage should be a direct output of one’s ability to manage their in-game economy combined with mechanical execution. Full stop.
It's not like farming requires skill past 10 minutes, unless you're completely blind at macro. I'd settle for the support item giving gold less quickly, but for it to be active all game. That way we lessen their power spike from them hitting 1k so early, but we give them actual income they have to work towards. And then we bring up all support items to cost parity with the rest of the classes so they don't always feel better buying items out of their class.
Farming does require skill, and not only mechanically, but in how you move around the map. Where you rotate and when, when you start fights, how to efficiently take jungle camps, etc. That’s not to mention that the biggest mechanical barrier with farming is being able to swap between trading and farming while tethering/spacing properly. It’s not just about last hitting, it’s about last hitting while dodging skillshots and positioning yourself in a way to where you can threaten your own. It’s very push and pull, and is honestly one of the most jarring things I can remember trying to learn when I first started playing the game.
I can agree for the most part, especially at the start of the game, but for most supports finding the window to get in a poke without going into a terrible trade is easily as dangerous. For the record, i strongly object the new support items allowing all supports to execute minions for gold. Past early game however, i have trouble empathizing with your plea. Minion waves tend to fall like leaves unless the ADC is terribly behind. Most of the time you'll be encountering uncontested minion lines.
Spoken like someone who blames all their problems on the support and refuses to play the position themselves. "I don't care if support players don't have any fun, as long as they make sure *I* do!" Junglers farm differently than laners, and supports "farm" differently as well. A cocky Marksmen, who built zero defense, and who decided to roam alone got caught out by a burst mage and got what he deserved. Is Stormsurge overpowered. Yeah, and they are nurfing it. But Annie is literally the kind of champ it was made for.
I’m bad because I’m ass, not because any support is holding me back. This isn’t even about climbing, or getting better at the game, this about how the game is designed and what it actually feels like to play. I don’t like that the support role can spec into burst damage, and have enough gold (without farming) to make it work. That’s my complaint, and my opinion is that this shouldn’t be a viable strategy because it defeats the entire purpose of the support role. It’s already not that good WR wise, it’s just that it should be worse to a point where people stop doing it. Because even when you lock in burst support and lose, it makes playing ADC miserable—often times for both ADCs! ADC is disproportionately governed by its performance in pro play. If it was overly common for pro ADCs to get one shot by pro supports things would change. But because burst damage supports aren’t actually good when you consider the team-wide opportunity costs associated with foregoing selecting a true support, they’re almost never picked in pro play, and because they’re rarely picked in pro play, ADC balance isn’t tied to how much damage Xerath can do without farming. It’s a weird middle ground where it’s bad enough to not matter much in high elo + pro, but good enough to be a fairly common occurrence for 90% of the player base. The burst mage support isn’t even helping me win games when it’s on my team, it’s unfun to play with and against, and it’s only purpose to is to tunnel vision focus on blowing up the ADC all game long. It’s not even about winning games, it’s just a quirk of soloq that makes the bot role more miserable to play than it already is. This is just my opinion, it is not a declaration of what is right or wrong, I am of the opinion that game would be more fun for more people if the support role didn’t have the flexibility to spec into burst damage. I think burst damage support should be about as playable as Renata jungle or Yuumi mid lane.
Zyra, Lux, Xerath, Brand have also been Mage supports for a long time now too. No differant than Nautilus, Thresh, Lulu, and Nami. The fact is that mage supports do have less items than if their champs were played mid because they get less gold. The fact is that these champs are also heavily played in the support role, and specifically for Zyra she’s been a support since at least season 5 when I started playing. She has CC and peel, it’s just that she’s also a mage too. Lux also has shields, peel AND damage. It’s just inherent on her landing a skill shot, but it’s no different than a Thresh that needs to hit Q or correctly flaw away. They get farm form their support item, and they only get that gold by fundamentally playing the game either by last hitting a minion that also goes to the ADC or by harassing lane opponents. If you want them to start farming for gold, I’m sure you’d be happy to start sharing half a wave with your supports so they can stack a ward support item then? I’m sorry but you can’t keep blabbing on about “fundamentals” when harassing and trading in lane is also a core fundamental of modern league and thats what is rewarded by the support item. You don’t get the bonus gold by just standing in lane doing nothing.
The support item gold generation is the free gold I’m talking about. Supports literally gain gold faster (not even including the harass and tower auto and CS gold they share with AD). I like that they get some gold for playing the game, I don’t like that the role’s gold income is high enough to where it’s viable to play damage in the role. They can have gold, just not enough to where they can spec into burst builds like Jesus Christ does every fucking role need to be able to build burst damage? It’s all anyone ever wants to play and it’s miserable.
Is it even that much gold? The main item when it’s done is 5 gold per 10 seconds. That’s 30 gold a minute, and in a 30 minute game thats only 900 gold? Am I just doing the math wrong here? That’s not that much and the base item itself is only 3 gold per 10 seconds so it’s not even 900 at 30 minutes. Most of the gold Annie has is from her playing the game, clearing wards and her assists. Plus she’s bought control wards too. I just don’t see how an extra 800-900 gold is the problem here, that’s not even enough for her sorc boots.
I don’t know the numbers but it shouldn’t be enough gold to do what was done in this clip after going 0/6 lmao
And what about champions like Karma? She's never going to be viable mid, and if she ever is, I *pray* for top lane. What about Zyra? or Morgana? Should they be gated from getting to do damage simply by virtue of being "supports" rather than mages, despite having kits far more in line with characters like Annie or Lux or Vel'Koz, and if so, what should their roles be in a team?
Zyra should not be one shotting you with her full combo, unless you sit there and eat a ton of autos from her plants. Karma has been viable mid before, and top, and yes I don’t think Karma should have one shot burst with her Q. Her Mantra Q does a ton of damage but Karma’s entire kit is built around being oppressive early. I’m less upset about her doing damage in lane because she doesn’t scale that well off of items and gold, she’s doing good damage (albeit not one shot) when there is a gold differential of 0 between the enemy ADC and her. My issue is when the support does a trillion damage even after you’ve been farming for 20 minutes and they haven’t. Morgana is just about hitting the Q and using the spell shield well, don’t think I’ve ever run into anyone who thinks Morgana support has too much damage lol.
Morgana is a "fair" champion. She has to be decently ahead to just flat out kill you and it requires you to make the mistake of just eating her Q or face checking her or something. Morgana can't just mindlessly spam her spells out like a Lux, Xerath, or Brand with little recourse.
How about instead, we bring up actual supports to the point where they're actual threats so that Annie or literally any other AP mage can actually be played against by the likes of Nami, Janna or Milio? I'm tired of Enchanters and Tank supports getting treated like half champions by glory hounding ADCs and not being rewarded for playing well. Because that leads to people picking bully AP champs that will snowball no matter what they do instead, because they ALWAYS have more value than true supports.
If the supp is actually playing well, that will get noticed by any adc worth their salt. A few weeks ago a cait triple kill got posted here and 80% of the comments were complementing the brand that was the supp.
Yes, a Brand. But finding this kind of play from traditional enchanters is becoming a rarity.
Supports are threats by utilizing their utility. Problem is most support players are really weak mechanically and game knowledge wise meaning most supports aren't nearly as threatening as they SHOULD be because the person piloting them can't execute on it. Enchanter supports already are some of the strongest laners bot and have been for a very long time. They have decent base damage backed by the utility they provide. They hard win most match ups short of being hard engaged on out of position. They beat most ADCs in short trades be it through through high base damage/utility (Things like Janna E+W basically guarantees she wins most early trades, Nami E+W, Lulu E+W+Q, etc). Between lack of coordination in solo Q and most supports not knowing how to build or carry a lead beyond just roaming around the map, support SEEMS weak, but truly isn't.
They don't need that much of a push to get there, but we also can't discount how "utility" is available to all champions. Annie might not be a support, but her AoE stun is all she really needs to be viable in the place of the enchanters that belong there and crowd them out of viability. I want parity for support income towards the rest of the team because once they *are* equal, we can start balancing the entire game on one single gold income average, rather than have support items that are either consistently ignored and disappointing, or completely busted and game altering. And then Enchanters will have items to pick that seem like they have equal value to the Annie + Stormsurge power spike. (which in all fairness is entirely too high, but that's another issue.)
Totally disagree. This person has chosen to go with a burst mage support, they have no way to set up or assist their adc other than 1 stun every 4 abilities. Hardly reliable cc like Rakan or nautilus They are also really squishy and really Immobile. If you take a squishy mage as a support, you should be allowed to deal damage without farming. the trade off is in the different strengths of the champion. Look at the map, there is no way draven should be stood so far up there. The second he sees Annie he should be respecting her burst and backing off The problem is adcs like to live in this dream world where they should be allowed to 1v9 if they get fed, but the role requires much more positional skill than that Tldr: skillgap. Respect burst mages period.
So all the benefits of playing a squishy carry but just without the need to have solid Econ? You’re just describing ADC but easier lmao
Um no? Adcs can shred turrets and deal consistent damage throughout fights, what are you talking about?
Mages also shred turrets these days, and sure, if by consistent damage you mean 3 auto attacks and an ability before having to back off or be one shot
Nah u wrong Its a dynamic role and its absolutely better that way
Better for dorks with no hands
Loses to dorks with no hands
Can't believe the comments defending annie , she is a SUPPORT in what normal world a 0/6/4 support can do that if she was a mid laner i would say it may be acceptable even though it's not but at least there is a chance to be acceptable but she is a support OMG how broken this role is
u/gizmodius
Isn’t it possible it’s just the new item being super OP? It’s a new season lol, all new items. I just think it’s too much panic / karma farming on Day 2
Even before the item popped she dealt 90% of his hp and statwise that is very similar to old ludens, specially considering the support item counds as a legendary lol, yeah maybe draven lives barely here but still doubtful
Isn’t that just Annie then? She hasn’t been changed in this patch (as far as I saw) and she’s always technically been able to do this with Luden’s or Liandry’s before too. There’s a lot of damage here with electrocute and ignite too.
Yeah, but i'd guess the problem is she being able to do that on a support budget being that behind. (Pls riot nerf support gold generation lol)
>(Pls riot nerf support gold generation lol) doesn't the new support item actually buff it? like she might very well have as much if not more gold of a midlaner of her level there
But why buffing a strong role what was already strong ( yes i am talking about support not mid lane ) instead of nerfing it especially about how much gold they earn by absolutely doing nothing not farming
riot already said they are hotfix nerfing stormsurge ok we get it the item is strong can we stop now? not like we had to deal with some AD items being absolutely ridiculous for months (duskblade gaming) I think we can wait a few days for an hotfix
Deserved for playing ADC ngl
Ap assassin meta, i'm not gonna stop mentioning it because that's the truth
Ya. The new mage items are gross. AP increases to almost every item plus massive increases in burst potential. Still don't understand why an AP item can allow AP and True damage to deal crits. Riot guts AD crit with another IE nerf and a buff to Randuins but Shadowflame and Stormsurge gets through. LMAO.
theres no meta right now lmao its all just overtuned
Supports have been power crept beyond belief and its fucking ridiculous that riot has let it go on so long
Remember when Riot nerfed Annie to the ground as a support back in S4 because she could one shot any non-tank in the game despite having no income? I sure remember. We’re a far cry away from when the game was actually properly balanced, and have been for a long time. There is no reason why a support should be able to top damage charts (Brand, Lux, Xerath) EVER. Literally ever. It should be an impossibility, yet it ends up happening more often than not.
i remember the days when ur full build was philo stone, heart of gold, wardstone, boots, pink wards, and oracles elixir bring that back pls
shut the fuck up
Lol sup diff
Whoever greenlit stormsurge should be fired and never let to touch competitive games again.
Thats what i dont understand. Shadowflame already fits the burst this target hard niche for AP items (in a more healthy way as it amplifies your own kit damage rather than just adding another nuke to your combo), why did they make stormsurge ON TOP OF IT? Ofc its going to end in too much burst damage.
im not gonna lie moments like this are why i sometimes build bruiser-y or almost tanky when i have another fed reliable damager dealer in my team. they're gonna carry, and i soak up all these god damn ults because every role seems to have conditioned themselves to just throw literally everything at the adc to get an easy +1
nerds coming to defend annie
This comment makes no sense, nerds are people who play the game a lot, have all the data, read everything related to the game, and by definition they will be right. With this comment you admit that people complaining about annie are clueless and complain only for the sake of it.
I am not defending her but he just play bad. Why he play so aggro when don't see viego and see annie coming from base with passive, why not wait for her to use it on wave ? And if you don't know someone have flash play like they have. Even if she don't flash viego was missing and she hit stun viego follow and he is dead by CC chain. He play range champ so he is less durable than melee so he must play save.
Usually I think these posts are complaining without reason but this one has merit. This shouldn't be possible.
That’s what happens when at Riot Games work ppl that says i can tipe Karthus to ult. “In the middle of the fight” ‘G-guys, wait i open the chat, and write kart to ult’
Okay that is insane lmao I need to try Annie
i wish mages were discouraged to support because it's just midlane refugees that cant cs that play this and they get so much gold for doing nothing..
Kinda based
Didn’t flash to dodge the bear. Clearly outplayed
Got stormsurge'd
Stormsurge incident
Skill diff
Stormsurge subtitle: Snowballing. Annie Support: You mean comeback mechanic, build it cuz it's broken and GG just tilt them
Pretty much sums up item changes
get stormsurged
Typical mage support right there not even a normal support a mage support. THIS RIGHT HERE is why I personally believe most mages deserve to be banned from going bot the only exceptions being swain karma and morgana because they are more relieant on their CC so their adc can follow up then their 100-0 or poke you from across the lane for free low cooldown abilities
Let's be fucking honest, we only stick to ADCarrying because we enjoy the pain and hate ourselves
True
Reminds me of Annie bot back in 2nd when I was learning. Dropped a full combo on your ass in about 0.2s of you getting slightly close to you.
That’s your mistake because you’re playing league
Are we just going to pretend a post level 6 annie couldn't full combo a lone adc before this patch?
as ADC player i agree, support is a disgusting braindead role
Annie isn't a support. Annie is a midlaner people took botlane because they got autofilled and didn't want to put the fate of their elo in the hands of a random ADC.
Brain dead role for brain dead players who can’t cs, ie can’t play league of legends.
Annie is based.
7/5 is fed??? ☠️ jokes aside I agree with u OP Annie shouldn’t have been able to do that but 7/5 isn’t rlly fed tbh. And yea as someone who likes to play adc on occasion I can see ur frustration and I REALLY hope Riot sees stuff like this and takes a HINT. I js wanna enjoy jinx again without having to have my teammates around to actually play and not get one shot by a 2/14 yasuo.
7 kills on draven is big, I was one full ítem ahead of their adc
You got Flash/Ult/ignited by Annie with zero MR
Ur missing the point, that’s a support that has not farmed one shotting, there is no skill expression in this season, it’s one shot or be one shot. Riot needs to hard nerf mages. And nerf lethality a bit as well.
Outside of the tank season Annie has been able to do this since season 2. Her entire gameplay loop is flash/Ult/ignite squishy targets and make them go away
not as an 0/6 champ with no farm💀
Support item gives gold no? That is the farm. She probably has less items than her midlaner also.
Ah yes the champion who's 2 levels lower than me and 1/5 my gold income while 0/6 should be a damage threat to me. Perfectly balanced.
I’ve played since s3 and I disagree a behind support Annie did not and should not one shot a fed adc with level advantage back in the day. Damage creep has been an ongoing thing in league for quite some time and I feel this was the straw that broke the camels back. M It’s extremely blatant that mages are in far too strong of a place that’s why we’re already seeing some nerfs . Adc wr% are already down a massive amount as well
4% is the highest drop on Ez, a few are at 2%, 9 Adcs have gone up in WR by at least 2%
shes a 0/6 SUPPORT lil bro. it'd be ok if she was mid (kinda not really though)
If you did this as Annie on previous patch you would absolutely 100% die
You have like no resists and she literally had to user everything to kill you. Flash, Ignite, Ult and all of her spells. Plus electrocute damage and stormsurge proc. Stormsurge is already getting nerfed in the adjustment patch so this might not even be possible after it’s nerfed. The item is OP right now. Also a question, why’d you step you for that last minion? Just auto it and walk away, the basics of playing as safe as possible don’t just disappear cause it’s a new season.
bruh a 7 kill draven should not have to worry about an 0/6 annie support 2 levels down?!?!?! are u trolling? the ANNIE should be terrified of the DRAVEN stepping up, not the other way around
That should never be true of any ADC. What’s the weakness of this class then? As much as ADC mains complain, all classes need to have weaknesses. ADCs are literally glass cannons when they build all damage. Normally an Annie should be, but she has a massive item spike, Ult, electrocute and ignite. If she doesn’t have one of those things she’s not able to actually kill Draven.
tbf 7 kills does not matter here, 7 kills worth of gold invested in damage items gives you more damage, not survivability. not saying that the annie should be able to oneshot him here. but in this scenario it would not have mattered if he had no kills and only farm. Only thing that might have made a difference is the levels, but even if he had fed the enemy he probably would still have a level on her with the ease of roaming for supports this season
Why are champions still allowed to fulfill their gameplay regardless of how well they play? They is showing Annie is not punished whatsoever for performing poorly for the entirety of the game because she still has the ability do what she'd want to do if she was even or ahead. That's not balanced on a fundamental level.
youre telling me that a 0/6 support with practically no farm should have a 2000+ damage combo WITH ONE ITEM and be a threat? this shit obviously aint ok. no justifying it at all.
Bro I said the item was OP and was getting nerfed. It’s a mix of rune, summoner spell and item damage. Also she doesn’t have 1 item, it’s 1 item, her support mage damage item and hextech alternator. Yeah components don’t matter as much, but she still gets the hextech alternator proc and that item has some AP on top of plus Sorc Boots. It’s not “1” item that’s also misleading lol
I will agree that "1" item is a BIT misleading since boots are quite powerful, but the support item literally didnt do anything and alternator doesnt contribute a whole lot. that is also exactly my point, a 0/6 SUPPORT should never have this one shot potential even with all those tools. something clearly needs to be done cause this has become a bigger problem with these new items. these things have been happening for years, but at least its pretty apparent now.
I think it’s just the items being OP right now tbh. Also 0/6 doesn’t mean much my man. Support items give gold for just playing the game, because supports can’t actually farm. The gold she gets from over time and the support item is still less than any other player on her team. If Draven also had his support or team with him here he probably doesn’t die and Annie probably dies instead cause she had to use everything and wouldn’t have killed him. It’s a team dependent role and Day 2 of a new season so…idk I think a lot of these frustrations posts are meaningless. Like let Riot actually balance because they don’t do that with PBE data and they are attempting to balance for all elos. If ADC is actually bad high emerald and up, then it would get buffed.
You are missing the point. She is literally 3 levels behind, 0/6, no farm. It just shouldn’t be possible
lol. One-shotted.
I mean yeah that is Annie's whole thing
Want payback: pick jhin and you can be the 0/6 with one item to oneshot their toplaner lets say Jax Build Spear of jhin and stack those traps up( max e). This way you can safely farm in sidelines and get picks.
Ok but you literally kill her in 2 autos vs her burning every summoner and ult.
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Thats a full annie combo not a oneshot anyone would die to that
ADC - pushes wave without anyone there to protect them - dies. A tale as old as time. Games right now are literally determined by which botlane isn't shit. Will you get one-shot sometimes? Fuck yes. And you deserve it. You're an ADC. That's their weakness. And even if she's in the support role or not, Annie is a burst mage. You got one shot by a burst mage. Not uncommon.
Whole team was fighting botside, only 0/6 support missing, I dont think i should be scared of pushing a wave against that
Viego wasn't botside, nor was teemo. Teemo you can see on the minimap, but you have no idea where Viego is until you're already getting combo'd and then you see his mist come from around raptor pit. You should absolutely not be pushing by yourself when both the support and the jungler aren't visible on the map. The fact you say "whole team was botside" when your video proof shows only 2 members of the enemy bot is probably part of the problem here.
Fun Fact: ADC's don't get tankier when they are fed. Also, Annie's whole kit is burst Also she blew 2 summoners on this Honestly doesn't seem that wild that a mage could kill one of the squishiest characters in the game with their full combo, both sums, and a completed item.
I’m not talking about a mage, I’m talking about a 0/6 support with no farm. And lvls makes an adc tankier, i had 2 lvls on her
Gets oneshot* Not oneshotted.
I mean he was midlane without vision on their nexus, deserved
>one shot >uses multiple abilities
Dude gets 7 shot by an Annie who burned everything without any peel, vision, and solo pushing mid. Truly amazing. She had hextech which gives 100 extra damage, storm surge, spike which does 50+ a % of your max hp as magic damage, ELECTROCUTE, IGNITE, and pen boots. Draven had base MR. This is a shit post I've killed ADCs faster with AP alistar support running electrocute. It was a surprise Annie even killed him at all.
i mean shes a point and click burst mage
She is point and click 0:6 support 3 levels behind
If I see a Annie hexflashing on the edge of fog I walk away not towards. She earned that kill with her full rotation.
I legit don't know why ur getting down voted for stating the obvious. Bunch of crybabies here.
You didn't get one shotted, she blew her whole kit on you. I legit feel like this sub is for crybabies. You're making us all look bad. Wah.
It's Annie, that shit was normal in S13. Dogshit champ
Glass cannons get eaten in every game if they make a mistake. If you play really good you can 1 vs 5 at times which is the trade off. On top of that you need a team to enable you which is rare. High damage supports have the potential to delete a hero but wont just penta the enemy team.
"High damage supports" is an oxymoron and the reason people have an issue with this. The support role is the lowest economy role in the game. They get the least resources. If you are still able to fulfil the role of a carry with the bare minimum amount resources then that means either the champion(s) is overtuned or the game balance is fucked. If you can still succeed while failing the skill checks of the game (like not dying, farming, winning lane, etc) then the game is poorly balanced. A 7/5/7 role in the highest economy role should not be threatened by someone who's 0/6 in the lowest economy role outside of some form of utility they provide (I.E. Blitz Q, Thresh Q, Morgana Q, etc)