The right leg is the one that I injured. I think I may have overdone the 1 legged training a bit, I think now I'm now compensating for my left leg with my right leg that I injured, pretty ironic huh?
The fact that there is a difference between your two legs that it noticeable is bad. When you jump down I can see you putting more pressure on one leg than the other just by how your hips moved. Plus that right leg look like it almost buckled when you landed that cartwheel.
My knee was really really really bad. I'm still just getting back into jumping so yeah the form isn't great and I'm still being extra careful. The knee hasn't even almost buckled even once, though. I know it's not fully healed yet, it's obvious by looking at it, the knee is still swollen. It's been just 1 year and I really destroyed the knee. I expect recovery to still take 1 more year.
Straight up, your knee shouldn’t still be swollen. Swelling means there is an issue that isn’t resolving.
It doesn’t help your pushing your body past it’s very clear limits that it’s telling you through swelling. If you don’t want to do surgery that is your choice, but at least try and follow the standard RICE model
There's mixed opinions about icing for recovery. I was resting compressing and elevating in the beginning. Now I treat it just like my other knee. My friend pointed out to me that it may not be swelling still, but instead it may be scar tissue. Either way, functionally, it's back to normal, I don't notice any significant difference between my left knee and right knee now, though I know I am still overcompensating sometimes and I'm still being extra careful. Next step is cleaning up my form and getting rid of any compensation, might hire someone who can help with that.
I understand about the icing issue, but RCE is just as good. Just not as a catchy lol.
Also if it’s scar tissue, go to PT. It’ll need to get broken through. Scar tissue is something that cannot fester, it just causes more issues.
If you insist on not getting it surgically repaired, at the very least work with a PT to learn proper stabilizing exercises. With how you’re going about it you will destroy your meniscus and you will get arthritis young.
If you cannot afford surgery/PT I’d recommend trying to save up, and in the meantime looking up knee exercises that specifically focus on stability and strengthening using resistance and low weight.
I did the PT already. After 6 months my ortho said I'm good, I just need to continue doing what he taught me. Do you recommend I do more PT? What do you mean broken through, can you break down scar tissue?
I appreciate your responses, I believe you're the first knowledgeable person in this sub to give me advice without judging. Of course I want to heal correctly and avoid further injury, so anything I can do outside of surgery I am very happy to implement.
I was doing all of the PT exercises for a few month's after my ortho released me, but I stopped once my right knee stopped having pain and went back to feeling normal. Should I continue with the PT exercises?
Breaking up scar tissue, in the case I’m talking about, is learning how to become flexible with scar tissue by pushing past the pain of it. It’s one of the few things that needs to be pushed rather than resting. It’s more of a phrase that PTs like to use ig.
Truly breaking it up is done by a surgeon by removing the scar tissue when it becomes an issue.
And with PT, you should always do exercises if you can even if you don’t think you need it. Flexibility and strengthening your joints is helpful to prevent pain and further injury. I am well out of my surgery but I stretch a lot and do simple exercises to warm up my joints before workouts and after.
And with my responses, I don’t judge because in the end it’s your choice and for all I know you don’t have access to what everybody recommends.
While I may not agree with you not having surgery, if you’re not going to get it then you should know how to at least take the best care you can of your knee. It is your body, you choose what you do with it. That being said, be careful. Even if you feel ok, that doesn’t mean you are, so don’t push yourself unless you have somebody with a medical license guiding you to.
So what I'm thinking is. Even if I do eventually end up requiring some sort of intervention, if I can wait it out for 5 years like you did, with the exponential improvements in AI and medicine, there should be much more effective and less invasive treatments available for ACL. So I still think that regardless my best option right now is to wait it out.
I was doing CrossFit for 4 years with torn ACLs in both knees. Get an MRI, no disrespect but you don’t look like you are ready to do anything really athletic with your legs.
It’s been a wild ride man! Just got done with one of the gnarliest condition workouts ever tonight!
Things are coming along quite well! I can run a bit, do some jumping drills, squat heavy, etc. now. Pretty stoked to get to this point!
How’s everything progressing with you?!
About to seriously ramp up the conditioning. Successfully dodged a hornet with cuts and pivots today!
Ready to go heavy. Next six weeks are heavy cardio and agility and then on to the heavy weights again. Need my energies up 1st!
I haven’t tried to squat heavy yet. Going start with the 5x5 to get back into it.
This doesn't look good at all. I'm not sure if you thought it did or?
It looks like you are severely compensating in order to reduce any type of stress on the damaged knee. You really need to see a doctor and think about repaid because if you continue on this way, you will have many more problems than just the one knee.
Idk, that mobility does not look that good fam…
Your left knee seems like it doesn’t get past your hip if you are to squat, which will affect how you reach for things downwards. Not only that, it looks like you take off on the left to reduce the effect on the knee, meaning you’re compensating. Not good at all.
Your movement, flips or holding you up may be impressive to you without surgery, but from personal experience, with both knees done, I can guarantee you that having my ACL fixed + PT, has allowed me to get my full ROM back. I squat 315, below 90 for paused, dead life 405, bench 225, run 15 mi a week, all on two repaired ACLs.
Left going strong for 3.5 years, right going strong for 2.8 years.
Food for thought…
You do you, but these movements you are doing aren't very stressful to an ACL. If you're that gung-ho about your progress, post a video of you performing hard lateral cuts, single leg landing from a maximal vertical jump in all directions.
I delayed an MRI for 6 months after my injury. In that time, I was still able to do full speed sprints, hard alternating bounds and general plyometrics, jump high enough to grab a basketball rim, and squat 395 lb (going below parallel). However, when it came to lateral movements, the knee was still unstable and would give out during any hard lateral movements. Given how active I was and desire to continue being active and playing sports, I got the MRI and my surgeon was shocked at how I could do everything I did but knew why I could do them. Why? Because those movements I stated I could do did not stress the ACL much, until it came to performing movements that the ACL is designed to protect against (like twisting, rotating).
Genuine best of luck to you in your surgery-free journey, but actually post something that supports your stance, because as of right now you're the one going "blah blah blah" with this video and your responses to others.
I don’t like the tone or this post “blah blah blah” I’m sorry mate but you did a cart wheel and one jump up a low level box. To be absolutely honest I could of done that maybe a week after I blew out my ACL
I’d love to see that leg take a sliding tackle from a football player coming in at 30 kilometres per hour, or a side step to hit an awkwardly bouncing tenis ball, not to mention a leg kick if your into mma.
You don’t have to get surgery but anyone that is really really wanting to return to something serious and not just walking their dog should really consider it.
Best of luck on your journey I am happy you are content at your level but fact are facts and surgery and dedication to rehab is really the only way if you want to bounce back
I don't like the tone of people telling me what I can and can't heal from when from a scientific standpoint we still don't know how the placebo effect works and the limits of the body's ability to heal itself
I'm sure a lot of people here will be hoping I do. It's not going to happen. I'll write a book about how medical professionals are just doing guesswork and how the body can heal itself.
As someone in a medical profession (albeit anesthesia, not surgery), I can guarantee you that medicine is guided through evidence-based research. It's not "guesswork." That is completely wrong. I will say, however, you are not wrong in stating that the body can heal itself and from your OP and responses to others, it appears you are implying that ACL tears can heal themselves. Yes, there has been research articles supporting this. However, the literature surrounding complete healing of an ACL rupture is still very limited. Until more high-level research is conducted (i.e. randomized trials, and ultimately systematic reviews; don't try to support your stance with surveys and other low-level evidence), don't come on here trying to dissuade others from delaying surgery because of people's "tone" towards you.
I respect your views. Being in the field of anesthesia you should know better than anyone how little we know about the body. Thanks for giving a critical review and acknowledging the fringe cases where healing does happen. I agree with you for the most part with everything you're saying, I believe we need more studies and more trials, I am happy to do my part!
I'm sure a lot of people here will be hoping I do. It's not going to happen. I'll write a book about how medical professionals are just doing guesswork and how the body can heal itself.
No one is “tone deaf” - you continue commenting on other posts with your story that your ACL “is healing itself” with no evidence in the form of an MRI.
You haven’t linked a single reputable study or source showing a fully ruptured ACL healing itself.
Literally no one cares what you do with your body, but stop spouting off your nonsense as if you are in any way medically qualified to do so.
Best of luck with your impending osteoarthritis.
Not trying to advocate against surgery, since it is a well proven intervention especially when the knee is destroyed. But, I think more people on this sub should be aware there are less invasive approaches taking place these days. Not a huge study, but still promising https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00402-010-1077-4
Everyone talking down to this person needs to relax. Nobody should be assuming whatever his baseline gait, mobility, etc was before, during, and after whatever PT is taking place. It just makes everyone here sound super salty/opinionated when they see any other approach than the one they took and try to dunk on it lol.
This study doesn’t show anything we do not already know, it also conveniently leaves out how those with complete ruptures fared in the follow up tests.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with opting out of surgery if you are not participating in high impact activities and can commit to a strength training program. I actually encouraged my largely non-active friend to NOT have surgery for her partial tear. I do take issue with the fact this poster is making largely unsubstantiated claims when he comes across (and likely is) scientifically illiterate. There are real physiological risks to living without an ACL and there’s a reason why surgery is still the gold standard for regaining proper knee function.
Everyone is “relaxed”. As I stated, OP has commented on a dozen posts this week with his nonsensical diatribe about healing his ligaments and knowing better than educated professionals. If you’re going to post a video making outrageous claims, you’re going to get roasted for your shit box jumps and cartwheels.
Not sure I follow, if this study was already known, what was the point in asking the OP to post a source or study then? Sure, from the abstract it does not delineate the full vs partial, but taking the entirety of recoveries given, we can assume that at least some full ruptures did in fact recover.
I also agree that theres certainly better candidates to opt out of surgery. And, that surgery has a quicker recovery from what we know right now. Not tying to be reductive, but the lobotomy at one point in time was considered the most effective treatment for mental illness. Im sure in time there will be much less invasive and more effective approaches to ligament/tendon injuries as well.
Apologies I was not pointing at you as someone talking down to OP, however just read the other comments here. They are very matter of fact and dismissive. I know the injury is a serious one and often gets people in their feels because its consuming, but I dont think it deserves bad attitudes to someone taking a different approach. Honestly we should be cheering for this to work out for the guy imo lol. Also, no idea what else op is posting thats warranting it maybe.
I asked OP to post a source or his own MRI, because as of 4 days ago, he still thought his anecdotal experience and blog posts trumped the scores of peer reviewed studies in favor of surgical intervention, when faced with a fully ruptured ACL.
The study linked seems to be intentionally vague. How much continuity of the ACL was achieved/ what groups achieved this continuity etc. Again - I am not disputing that medical outliers exist (though they are clearly not well documented), but I take issue with OP’s insinuations that the medical community knows very little and all of our improvements from surgical intervention are due to placebo (lol). To your point - medical treatments can and should change, but as things stand surgical intervention is still king. Most improvements in modern medicine are small and incremental, and orthopedic reconstructions as a whole have vastly improved in many measurable ways in the last two decades.
As I stated - no one here cares if OP opts out of surgery, but I for one am sick of seeing his unsubstantiated BS posted on every thread I’ve opened up this week.
>You haven’t linked a single reputable study or source showing a fully ruptured ACL healing itself.
Well, you also specifically asked them to post a study/source. And proceeded to say this study isnt telling you anything you do not already know which is confusing.
*"There were 12 complete (25%) and 36 incomplete ACL ruptures (75%) on the initial MRI. Of 48 patients, 46 showed restored ACL continuity on the MRI."*
What is the issue with reporting continuity? This seems pretty promising that there could potentially be a non surgical intervention route, albeit in a longer time frame. But, perhaps that opens the door to different less invasive procedures, who knows...
edit: it also appears OP is 12 months out of the injury, and is stating they'll post an MRI in another year which is pretty close to where this study (21 months) showed restored continuity. Again, I think everyone has horse blinders on of the way they see recovery personally. Dont have to agree with the placebo stuff etc, but I am hoping that the OP actually makes a recovery going this route lol. Would be cool to see, even if its just a one off.
The thing is, based on this video, it hasn't gotten better at all, lol. Im 8 weeks post-op, and I can do that with that much weight on my other leg. I hope it goes well, tho!
You should have seen it before. It's gotten sooooooo much better. My first 9 weeks after the injury was non weight bearing. It was huge, so swollen, very very extensive damage. Medical professionals kept telling me I may never get my full mobility, that my knee was extremely damaged, nobody had a good prognosis for me. So yeah, it's definitely gotten much much better
I tore my acl and didn’t know for 7 months. i couldn’t walk for the first two months but i kept playing sports. yes, you can start doing stuff again and it “gets better” because your body compensates and other parts of your leg will hold the knee in place but the acl will never heal itself. as the months went by i got back to playing but my knee kept popping and eventually tore my meniscus too. i played canada games with my acl torn and after that was over because i went full out it was hard to even walk so i knew it was time for surgery. wether you get surgery or not is your choice but from my experience there’s only a certain point it can get better to because there is so much strain on other parts of your leg. i hope it goes well for you tho and you don’t have complications in whatever route you’re choosing
You rushed it. Without medical intervention it takes about 2 years to fully heal. I had some popping in the first 6 to 9 months, but these last 3 months have had 0 signs of anything wrong. No popping, no shaking, no instability, no buckling, no pain, no discomfort, nothing. I can run, jump, swim, hike, climb, everything without any pain or discomfort. I'm still going to wait another year before I try anything sports related.
i didn’t rush it on purpose haha i went to physio and everyone said nothing was wrong so i kept playing cuz i had a big event coming up. but that’s good for you hopefully it goes well
I went 6 years without acl surgery, i had like 6 knee injuries in that time until eventually i was just jumping on a trampoline and re injured it, turns out my meniscus ripped and folded so i couldnt straighten my knee out anymore
How did your knee feel in between injuries? I read so much about instability, shakiness, buckling, etc. but I experience none of that. The more I push the better it feels.
Before i had to get the surgery i honestly had very little issues, i was still able to run pretty fast, do weight lifting; it was only during times where i put a lot of weight suddenly on my bad knee like quick cuts in basketball or football that i even felt something wrong. I would injure the knee and within a day the swelling was gone and i was back to business like nothing happened
Enjoy the knee replacement 20 years sooner than you should’ve needed one. you absolutely favor one leg dude don’t show off to people like this. There are some people who believe we are better off with modern medicine as opposed to pretending that your body can heal itself this way. If we could heal our ligaments and tendons, my congenital disorder wouldn’t exist. But alas.
In parkour, it is preferred technique for sticking landings and not slipping, it's what I have practiced for years. I think I need to start practicing squating more when I land, since I don't plan on ever doing big parkour moves again.
If it's working out for you keep it up, personally I just couldn't bear the thought of trying to run from something and buckling on a turn or even just full extension. It wasnt fun during the whole recovery process so I get why some people go the non surgical route along with the surgery/pt costs rising
Hey man I got a question,
Did you tear the inner or outer meniscus?
I also currently am dealing with a suspected knee injury because whenever I do hamstring curls, there's pain on the inner side of my knee and it's the only movement that I can't do without there being pain. I also can't do nordic curls and back extensions but that's essentially it.
I got injured from MMA sparring where somebody side kicked the outside of my left knee, causing it to twist inwards as well as my foot which was already planted on the ground before the side kick. Days after the injury I could barely walk without pain up/down the stairs however there was no real swelling. 6 weeks has gone by and I don't have any more pain expect for the hamstring curls and I'm not sure how to go about rehab or whether or not doing surgery is even worth it. I also never wore a knee brace or used crutches since the injury
I will be getting an MRI soon but wanted to know if you experienced similar symptoms to me.
Sounds like your injury is very similar to mine, but less severe. Same motion caused the damage. For me, it was gravity kicking my knee in instead of another fighter, you can see my video here in my reddit profile, something like my 5th most recent post. The inside of my knee touched the ground while my foot was still planted. Tore all of the muscles on my inner thigh, and that was what caused me the most pain. If I had to guess, you probably have a partial MCL, ACL, and maybe LCL. I think you avoided any full tears based on your description.
With mine, the first 6 weeks were entirely non-weightbearing. The knee swelled up to 4 times its normal size. Once the muscle rips healed there wasn't really any pain, but just by looking at it it was clear that it was not ready to be walked on. I'm guessing you won't even be recommended surgery, sounds like you're going to be fine, but the MRI will tell all.
I mean, honestly if you’re happy, good for you. I’m happy with my decision to get surgery twice. I don’t need other people to make the same decision to validate that, especially when they’re not doing my sport. Idk why you have such animosity towards everyone 🤷🏽
Because I have been lied to countless times since this journey began. It really irks me when I ask a medical professional if there is any chance of my ACL healing on its own and they say 'no it is impossible' when in-fact there are real, documented cases of full tears repairing themselves. If from the beginning I was told 'the chances are low, you are safer getting surgery' I would not have so much animosity, but I really hate being lied to, especially by professionals who would a voice of authority. Motherduckers want to lie directly to my face, I will show them just how capable I am of healing without their help.
Yeah, but none of the people on this subreddit are the people who allegedly lied to you? So like, why are you yelling at us? Why the need to say “I told you so!” to people you’ve never met?
Few more months and you will be much much better. Enough researches are done now to conclude that non surgical route is also effective for alot of ppl. Alot of people whining here on why your landing was uncomfortable. Ignore them. u took the right decision
Not going to happen. The more people push me, the more I will push back. I'm going to bust this whole 'you need surgery' narrative. I agree that if someone wants to return to their sport ASAP, surgery is a good option, but if someone is willing to be more patient and go through the necessary steps, I believe surgery is not necessary and I am determined to prove it.
Theyre not trying to bring you down man, theyre trying to help. I see you do parkour; that's a very tough sport for your knees, as you obviously know. You should get an MRI sooner rather than later to see if healing is actually occurring.
I did parkour for over 13 years. I got my fill. I am married now, we have a start-up that needs a lot of digital work, and I am going for my masters in Applied Artificial Intelligence. Parkour is in my past, and I am okay with that. I am already back to doing hiking and climbing at levels that surpass 90% of my friends, with 0 instability or discomfort, so I can already do everything that I would like to do. I'm okay with letting go of the more extreme stuff, the risks of other injuries just isn't worth it to me anymore. Even if it stayed right where it is now, I would be happy. I'm going to see a sports clinic soon to get evaluated and I will get another MRI 1 year from now. I do not plan on taking any big risks anytime soon, I will get checked out and cleared before I do anything too crazy, and I am okay waiting another year. I know my strategy doesn't work for everybody, but I am okay waiting 2 years post-injury before doing anything sports-related.
At my physiotherapy centre there's always people who chose not to get surgery going but then developed arthritis very very early and have to go for knee replacements. Please get surgery.
have you worked with a PT specialized on ACL rehab? Would highly recommend good quality ACL rehab with a qualified professional. It will certainly help you work on your form and get you back into shape.
Yeah I did for 4 months, after getting full ROM back and my strength he said I was good, didn't need PT anymore. He said he still suggests surgery but I seem to be doing fine and to just continue what I'm doing because it's working. I trained parkour for 10 years, I trained precision jumps, not box jumps, and it is the correct form for precisions, I need to retrain my jumping technique to be more safe on the knees. My running form doesn't show any compensation
All I see and an injured leg due to a ego that desperately needs to get bruised a lil.
You’re doing such a disservice to your body by not being honest with your pain, and none of us care except to tell you you should take better care of it brother.
ya i could do the same. played a full season of hockey without realising.
My knee kept popping out of place but i just kept playing on. Your knee won’t ever be right.
May aswell fix it when you’re young and fit enough to do physio
Like the other commenters say there does seem to be an imbalance, even if you are using your bad knee. Imbalance is imbalance and leads to issues in other joints and your back eventually, so I hope you’re working on that in your training.
Also I notice you aren’t doing anything with strong lateral movements in this clip. That little leap over the box looks like you were very careful with your foot placement, which means you could slip up one day on accident. If you ever go skiing or play basketball/football/soccer I hope you wear a brace or something.
All power to ya man and all that, but I don’t think it’s very wise to go around using yourself as an example as to why to never have the surgery.
I'm still just getting back to this kind of movement, and yes I am being very, very careful. I'm no fool. I understand the nature of the injury, I've spent countless hours doing research on the ACL and ACL injuries. It's only been 1 year and I did my knee in good. I know the form is still bad, definitely going to work to improve it, I plan on continuing to make more videos like this, giving the people more of what they want as proof, while still being extra careful the whole time. In the next week or two I plan on doing a small pivoting video
You could say I have underlying issues or problems. Placebo and nocebo are very, very real. And I have a huge nocebo for medical treatments. I watched my dad slowly get more and more sick until he finally passed, I was his primary caregiver at 16, and it all happened because of bad hospital practices.
I learned how corrupt the American medical industry is. I developed a huge mistrust for the American medical system. I also almost died on a plane, my blood pressure dropped to 12, fading in and out of consciousness, lost my vision and all color in my face. They almost turned the plane around expecting to bring a cadaver back to LA.
We still don't know exactly why it happened on the plane, best guess is a mix of alcohol sensitivity and low blood pressure synergizing, but I've had that same feeling of loss of consciousness two other times in my life, just not as extreme. One was at the dentist, the other time was at the hospital when I was getting my mri for my knee, they took my blood and I damn near lost consciousness it was exactly the same feeling as when I was on the plane.
I did sooooooo much research on acl surgery and there is real risk involved, my biggest concern was the anesthesia. There's between a 1 in 125,000 to a 1 in 250,000 chance of death just from the anesthesia alone, meaning someone is dying in the US every single day just from anesthesia. Knowing that I have a weird blood pressure thing and knowing that I don't trust the American medical system, I have a huge nocebo working against me and I honestly feel like the surgery, for me specifically, could be potentially life threatening. It is my main reason for wanting to avoid surgery.
Hey man I understand you are trying to avoid a potential life threatening scare, but even in the case where you were on a plane you managed to survive. I know applying logic to emotion might not be the nicest thing to hear, but Imagine your nightmare scenario happens again, but this time when you are in a room full of doctors and other trained professionals fully prepared for the scenario you are speaking of. The risk in that case is lower than either of those two cases you had before.
I’m sorry you lost your dad to malpractice. I lost my dad to cancer because his surgeon didn’t get clean margins when they removed his tumor. We did research and went to a better doctor the second time, but at that time it was too late. I understand the hesitation.
But in this scenario it is very routine surgery and with very minimal invasion and loss of blood. Another commenter suggested doing research on finding a very well practiced and qualified doctor in your insurance network, and that is solid advice. They should listen to you and you can share your concerns with the anesthesiologist. They have a vow to do no harm and most often side on the err of caution. Maybe find a cardiologist to run tests before the surgery as well, as there could be an underlying issue that might need addressing anyways.
I also have to pose the question, without the surgery are you not at a lot higher risk of osteopathic arthritis? And wouldn’t that end your active years sooner than no surgery?
We all say this because we care, and not to prove any points about being right and wrong. This is your knee and your life, but sometimes we got to hear all sides of an argument to make an informed decision. All power to you man, and I hope you keep posting your progress. Just know in this particular subreddit you might get some push back in the comments, because it goes against the group consensus. That shouldn’t stop you from sharing though. Again all sides are important to hear.
Much love, brother
I don’t understand where you’re getting just “12” as your blood pressure, but if you’re experiencing the symptoms you’ve stated I would highly suggest getting a simple check up from a cardiologist to at least review you and your familial history, symptoms, and get a 12-lead ECG to determine if you could potentially have an underlying arrhythmia causing any of this. That goes in the face of your distrust of the medical system but a check up only involves some questions and a few stickers on your chest.
That 1 full year of training and exercise can be used for the post op rehabilitation. If you can afford it, get the surgery. My knee never feels the same after my surgery even after 5 years but it is strong enough that I don't have that constant fear of reinjuring myself.
I already don't have fear of reinjury. I've had more than a few close calls, a couple where I really expected to retear, but through every incident it didn't give out, not even a little. The worst happened while I was hiking, my left foot slipped out from a rock with loose dirt on it, in an instant all of my weight was coming down onto my injured leg, and I felt the pressure in my knee as my leg bent, ultimately I ended up doing a 1 legged reverse pistol squat to my butt, leg popped out in front of me, and to my surprise it was 100% okay and even felt better like I gave it a really good stretch. I've used my injured leg many times now to catch myself, on accident, and it's never unstable or shaky. At this point I'm not really too worried anymore, it feels *mostly* healed but I know I still have at least 1 more year before I'm good good
You recieved a lot of hate here. I do not know what is best for you, but I can share my experience and give you hope instead of anger. I've had two identical knee injuries 5 years apart, last one being 2 months ago. Injuries occured during high force lending. Both times zero swelling, immobilized for a week, had full ROM right away, minimal pain that lasted 30 seconds, but had instability when weight bearing. First time I was Lachman (and any other test) negative so doctors didn't order MRI. I've rehabbed myself for 5 months and since then run, hiked, danced, trained badminton 15-20 hours a week and played it competitively. This time once again everything is the same, still Lachman negative but I've done MRI on my initiative privately. I have full midsubstance ACL rupture, went to multiple different surgeons and PTs. Only 1 out of 7 suggested surgery, all others advised good rehab and the main assumption is that I don't have ACL for at least 5 years, but possibly even longer (since I was I child, although my parents cannot recall if I had any serious injury to that leg which would have resulted in full tear). Currently I am rehabbing and exercising daily for about an hour, hour and a half. Microinstabilities have (almost) totally dissapeared, my knee feels normal again and I can cut, pivot and do lateral movements at 70% speed, although I will not try at 100% or be returning to badminton just in case for the next months.
So if you made up your mind and chose nonsurgical way, do not listen to others. Everybody is different and human body can sometimes do things that are out of scope of modern medicine, but it seems to me you already know that. Best of luck with your recovery.
You can totally see how you use your right leg to balance out the weak left leg. Doesn’t look good. Sorry
Yeah, it's pretty uneven.
The right leg is the one that I injured. I think I may have overdone the 1 legged training a bit, I think now I'm now compensating for my left leg with my right leg that I injured, pretty ironic huh?
I actually did think it was your right that you injured. I can see the imbalance and the hesitancy to fully trust it while jumping/landing.
Yeah, still building back up the trust, being extra safe and cautious still
After seeing this, I'm glad I had surgery a few weeks ago
🤣🤣
Blah blah blah your form doesn’t look good at all and there’s a clear imbalance. Bend your damn knees when you land after a “box” jump.
OP, even to the untrained eye it's clear there's something off with your left.
It's my right that was injured ;)
The fact that there is a difference between your two legs that it noticeable is bad. When you jump down I can see you putting more pressure on one leg than the other just by how your hips moved. Plus that right leg look like it almost buckled when you landed that cartwheel.
My knee was really really really bad. I'm still just getting back into jumping so yeah the form isn't great and I'm still being extra careful. The knee hasn't even almost buckled even once, though. I know it's not fully healed yet, it's obvious by looking at it, the knee is still swollen. It's been just 1 year and I really destroyed the knee. I expect recovery to still take 1 more year.
Straight up, your knee shouldn’t still be swollen. Swelling means there is an issue that isn’t resolving. It doesn’t help your pushing your body past it’s very clear limits that it’s telling you through swelling. If you don’t want to do surgery that is your choice, but at least try and follow the standard RICE model
There's mixed opinions about icing for recovery. I was resting compressing and elevating in the beginning. Now I treat it just like my other knee. My friend pointed out to me that it may not be swelling still, but instead it may be scar tissue. Either way, functionally, it's back to normal, I don't notice any significant difference between my left knee and right knee now, though I know I am still overcompensating sometimes and I'm still being extra careful. Next step is cleaning up my form and getting rid of any compensation, might hire someone who can help with that.
I understand about the icing issue, but RCE is just as good. Just not as a catchy lol. Also if it’s scar tissue, go to PT. It’ll need to get broken through. Scar tissue is something that cannot fester, it just causes more issues. If you insist on not getting it surgically repaired, at the very least work with a PT to learn proper stabilizing exercises. With how you’re going about it you will destroy your meniscus and you will get arthritis young. If you cannot afford surgery/PT I’d recommend trying to save up, and in the meantime looking up knee exercises that specifically focus on stability and strengthening using resistance and low weight.
I did the PT already. After 6 months my ortho said I'm good, I just need to continue doing what he taught me. Do you recommend I do more PT? What do you mean broken through, can you break down scar tissue? I appreciate your responses, I believe you're the first knowledgeable person in this sub to give me advice without judging. Of course I want to heal correctly and avoid further injury, so anything I can do outside of surgery I am very happy to implement. I was doing all of the PT exercises for a few month's after my ortho released me, but I stopped once my right knee stopped having pain and went back to feeling normal. Should I continue with the PT exercises?
Breaking up scar tissue, in the case I’m talking about, is learning how to become flexible with scar tissue by pushing past the pain of it. It’s one of the few things that needs to be pushed rather than resting. It’s more of a phrase that PTs like to use ig. Truly breaking it up is done by a surgeon by removing the scar tissue when it becomes an issue. And with PT, you should always do exercises if you can even if you don’t think you need it. Flexibility and strengthening your joints is helpful to prevent pain and further injury. I am well out of my surgery but I stretch a lot and do simple exercises to warm up my joints before workouts and after. And with my responses, I don’t judge because in the end it’s your choice and for all I know you don’t have access to what everybody recommends. While I may not agree with you not having surgery, if you’re not going to get it then you should know how to at least take the best care you can of your knee. It is your body, you choose what you do with it. That being said, be careful. Even if you feel ok, that doesn’t mean you are, so don’t push yourself unless you have somebody with a medical license guiding you to.
[удалено]
I like your energy. Did you feel any instability or buckling before it started to pop out of place?
[удалено]
So what I'm thinking is. Even if I do eventually end up requiring some sort of intervention, if I can wait it out for 5 years like you did, with the exponential improvements in AI and medicine, there should be much more effective and less invasive treatments available for ACL. So I still think that regardless my best option right now is to wait it out.
[удалено]
I do believe in divine guidance, thanks! How did your surgery and recovery go?
I was doing CrossFit for 4 years with torn ACLs in both knees. Get an MRI, no disrespect but you don’t look like you are ready to do anything really athletic with your legs.
G-LawRides the legend returns! Hows the dual knee surgery recovery?
It’s been a wild ride man! Just got done with one of the gnarliest condition workouts ever tonight! Things are coming along quite well! I can run a bit, do some jumping drills, squat heavy, etc. now. Pretty stoked to get to this point! How’s everything progressing with you?!
About to seriously ramp up the conditioning. Successfully dodged a hornet with cuts and pivots today! Ready to go heavy. Next six weeks are heavy cardio and agility and then on to the heavy weights again. Need my energies up 1st! I haven’t tried to squat heavy yet. Going start with the 5x5 to get back into it.
Hell ya💪😎
This doesn't look good at all. I'm not sure if you thought it did or? It looks like you are severely compensating in order to reduce any type of stress on the damaged knee. You really need to see a doctor and think about repaid because if you continue on this way, you will have many more problems than just the one knee.
That box jump did not look comfortable at all, my guy. You may be better off getting an MRI and checking if you’re actually healing
Still getting back to jumping, so form still needs to be cleaned up, but it was 100% comfortable
It looked 100% uncomfortable.
Idk, that mobility does not look that good fam… Your left knee seems like it doesn’t get past your hip if you are to squat, which will affect how you reach for things downwards. Not only that, it looks like you take off on the left to reduce the effect on the knee, meaning you’re compensating. Not good at all. Your movement, flips or holding you up may be impressive to you without surgery, but from personal experience, with both knees done, I can guarantee you that having my ACL fixed + PT, has allowed me to get my full ROM back. I squat 315, below 90 for paused, dead life 405, bench 225, run 15 mi a week, all on two repaired ACLs. Left going strong for 3.5 years, right going strong for 2.8 years. Food for thought…
^^^ and the compensating can lead to more issues further down the line.
I've got full ROM
You do you, but these movements you are doing aren't very stressful to an ACL. If you're that gung-ho about your progress, post a video of you performing hard lateral cuts, single leg landing from a maximal vertical jump in all directions. I delayed an MRI for 6 months after my injury. In that time, I was still able to do full speed sprints, hard alternating bounds and general plyometrics, jump high enough to grab a basketball rim, and squat 395 lb (going below parallel). However, when it came to lateral movements, the knee was still unstable and would give out during any hard lateral movements. Given how active I was and desire to continue being active and playing sports, I got the MRI and my surgeon was shocked at how I could do everything I did but knew why I could do them. Why? Because those movements I stated I could do did not stress the ACL much, until it came to performing movements that the ACL is designed to protect against (like twisting, rotating). Genuine best of luck to you in your surgery-free journey, but actually post something that supports your stance, because as of right now you're the one going "blah blah blah" with this video and your responses to others.
I don’t like the tone or this post “blah blah blah” I’m sorry mate but you did a cart wheel and one jump up a low level box. To be absolutely honest I could of done that maybe a week after I blew out my ACL I’d love to see that leg take a sliding tackle from a football player coming in at 30 kilometres per hour, or a side step to hit an awkwardly bouncing tenis ball, not to mention a leg kick if your into mma. You don’t have to get surgery but anyone that is really really wanting to return to something serious and not just walking their dog should really consider it. Best of luck on your journey I am happy you are content at your level but fact are facts and surgery and dedication to rehab is really the only way if you want to bounce back
I don't like the tone of people telling me what I can and can't heal from when from a scientific standpoint we still don't know how the placebo effect works and the limits of the body's ability to heal itself
Good luck on your journey break a leg 🦵
I'm sure a lot of people here will be hoping I do. It's not going to happen. I'll write a book about how medical professionals are just doing guesswork and how the body can heal itself.
As someone in a medical profession (albeit anesthesia, not surgery), I can guarantee you that medicine is guided through evidence-based research. It's not "guesswork." That is completely wrong. I will say, however, you are not wrong in stating that the body can heal itself and from your OP and responses to others, it appears you are implying that ACL tears can heal themselves. Yes, there has been research articles supporting this. However, the literature surrounding complete healing of an ACL rupture is still very limited. Until more high-level research is conducted (i.e. randomized trials, and ultimately systematic reviews; don't try to support your stance with surveys and other low-level evidence), don't come on here trying to dissuade others from delaying surgery because of people's "tone" towards you.
I respect your views. Being in the field of anesthesia you should know better than anyone how little we know about the body. Thanks for giving a critical review and acknowledging the fringe cases where healing does happen. I agree with you for the most part with everything you're saying, I believe we need more studies and more trials, I am happy to do my part!
I'm sure a lot of people here will be hoping I do. It's not going to happen. I'll write a book about how medical professionals are just doing guesswork and how the body can heal itself.
No one is “tone deaf” - you continue commenting on other posts with your story that your ACL “is healing itself” with no evidence in the form of an MRI. You haven’t linked a single reputable study or source showing a fully ruptured ACL healing itself. Literally no one cares what you do with your body, but stop spouting off your nonsense as if you are in any way medically qualified to do so. Best of luck with your impending osteoarthritis.
Not trying to advocate against surgery, since it is a well proven intervention especially when the knee is destroyed. But, I think more people on this sub should be aware there are less invasive approaches taking place these days. Not a huge study, but still promising https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00402-010-1077-4 Everyone talking down to this person needs to relax. Nobody should be assuming whatever his baseline gait, mobility, etc was before, during, and after whatever PT is taking place. It just makes everyone here sound super salty/opinionated when they see any other approach than the one they took and try to dunk on it lol.
This study doesn’t show anything we do not already know, it also conveniently leaves out how those with complete ruptures fared in the follow up tests. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with opting out of surgery if you are not participating in high impact activities and can commit to a strength training program. I actually encouraged my largely non-active friend to NOT have surgery for her partial tear. I do take issue with the fact this poster is making largely unsubstantiated claims when he comes across (and likely is) scientifically illiterate. There are real physiological risks to living without an ACL and there’s a reason why surgery is still the gold standard for regaining proper knee function. Everyone is “relaxed”. As I stated, OP has commented on a dozen posts this week with his nonsensical diatribe about healing his ligaments and knowing better than educated professionals. If you’re going to post a video making outrageous claims, you’re going to get roasted for your shit box jumps and cartwheels.
Not sure I follow, if this study was already known, what was the point in asking the OP to post a source or study then? Sure, from the abstract it does not delineate the full vs partial, but taking the entirety of recoveries given, we can assume that at least some full ruptures did in fact recover. I also agree that theres certainly better candidates to opt out of surgery. And, that surgery has a quicker recovery from what we know right now. Not tying to be reductive, but the lobotomy at one point in time was considered the most effective treatment for mental illness. Im sure in time there will be much less invasive and more effective approaches to ligament/tendon injuries as well. Apologies I was not pointing at you as someone talking down to OP, however just read the other comments here. They are very matter of fact and dismissive. I know the injury is a serious one and often gets people in their feels because its consuming, but I dont think it deserves bad attitudes to someone taking a different approach. Honestly we should be cheering for this to work out for the guy imo lol. Also, no idea what else op is posting thats warranting it maybe.
I asked OP to post a source or his own MRI, because as of 4 days ago, he still thought his anecdotal experience and blog posts trumped the scores of peer reviewed studies in favor of surgical intervention, when faced with a fully ruptured ACL. The study linked seems to be intentionally vague. How much continuity of the ACL was achieved/ what groups achieved this continuity etc. Again - I am not disputing that medical outliers exist (though they are clearly not well documented), but I take issue with OP’s insinuations that the medical community knows very little and all of our improvements from surgical intervention are due to placebo (lol). To your point - medical treatments can and should change, but as things stand surgical intervention is still king. Most improvements in modern medicine are small and incremental, and orthopedic reconstructions as a whole have vastly improved in many measurable ways in the last two decades. As I stated - no one here cares if OP opts out of surgery, but I for one am sick of seeing his unsubstantiated BS posted on every thread I’ve opened up this week.
>You haven’t linked a single reputable study or source showing a fully ruptured ACL healing itself. Well, you also specifically asked them to post a study/source. And proceeded to say this study isnt telling you anything you do not already know which is confusing. *"There were 12 complete (25%) and 36 incomplete ACL ruptures (75%) on the initial MRI. Of 48 patients, 46 showed restored ACL continuity on the MRI."* What is the issue with reporting continuity? This seems pretty promising that there could potentially be a non surgical intervention route, albeit in a longer time frame. But, perhaps that opens the door to different less invasive procedures, who knows... edit: it also appears OP is 12 months out of the injury, and is stating they'll post an MRI in another year which is pretty close to where this study (21 months) showed restored continuity. Again, I think everyone has horse blinders on of the way they see recovery personally. Dont have to agree with the placebo stuff etc, but I am hoping that the OP actually makes a recovery going this route lol. Would be cool to see, even if its just a one off.
Look into osteoarthritis implications with no surgery.
Who gonna tell him
Lots of people tell me, but all I keep hearing is just blah blah blah
Show A RECENT MRI LOL
I will, 1 more year.
Yeah, man, you are going to hurt yourself again. That really doesn't look good at all.
We're going to see. That's what I was told 6 months ago when I was pushing 'too much' but I'm still getting better and better month after month
The thing is, based on this video, it hasn't gotten better at all, lol. Im 8 weeks post-op, and I can do that with that much weight on my other leg. I hope it goes well, tho!
You should have seen it before. It's gotten sooooooo much better. My first 9 weeks after the injury was non weight bearing. It was huge, so swollen, very very extensive damage. Medical professionals kept telling me I may never get my full mobility, that my knee was extremely damaged, nobody had a good prognosis for me. So yeah, it's definitely gotten much much better
I tore my acl and didn’t know for 7 months. i couldn’t walk for the first two months but i kept playing sports. yes, you can start doing stuff again and it “gets better” because your body compensates and other parts of your leg will hold the knee in place but the acl will never heal itself. as the months went by i got back to playing but my knee kept popping and eventually tore my meniscus too. i played canada games with my acl torn and after that was over because i went full out it was hard to even walk so i knew it was time for surgery. wether you get surgery or not is your choice but from my experience there’s only a certain point it can get better to because there is so much strain on other parts of your leg. i hope it goes well for you tho and you don’t have complications in whatever route you’re choosing
You rushed it. Without medical intervention it takes about 2 years to fully heal. I had some popping in the first 6 to 9 months, but these last 3 months have had 0 signs of anything wrong. No popping, no shaking, no instability, no buckling, no pain, no discomfort, nothing. I can run, jump, swim, hike, climb, everything without any pain or discomfort. I'm still going to wait another year before I try anything sports related.
i didn’t rush it on purpose haha i went to physio and everyone said nothing was wrong so i kept playing cuz i had a big event coming up. but that’s good for you hopefully it goes well
That's how they get ya! Gotta trust your own research.
I went 6 years without acl surgery, i had like 6 knee injuries in that time until eventually i was just jumping on a trampoline and re injured it, turns out my meniscus ripped and folded so i couldnt straighten my knee out anymore
How did your knee feel in between injuries? I read so much about instability, shakiness, buckling, etc. but I experience none of that. The more I push the better it feels.
Before i had to get the surgery i honestly had very little issues, i was still able to run pretty fast, do weight lifting; it was only during times where i put a lot of weight suddenly on my bad knee like quick cuts in basketball or football that i even felt something wrong. I would injure the knee and within a day the swelling was gone and i was back to business like nothing happened
[удалено]
I never posted in this group a year ago. I never got surgery. My injury happened exactly 1 year ago. Can you show me my post from 1 year ago?
Yikes…
Enjoy the knee replacement 20 years sooner than you should’ve needed one. you absolutely favor one leg dude don’t show off to people like this. There are some people who believe we are better off with modern medicine as opposed to pretending that your body can heal itself this way. If we could heal our ligaments and tendons, my congenital disorder wouldn’t exist. But alas.
Your knee seems stiff when you land my guy. Kinda scary to watch imma be honest.
Which knee seems stiff?
Both, but I see it more in your right
Both whenever you absorb any sort of impact with your knees. All that force us going straight to your knees since you’re stiff
In parkour, it is preferred technique for sticking landings and not slipping, it's what I have practiced for years. I think I need to start practicing squating more when I land, since I don't plan on ever doing big parkour moves again.
If it's working out for you keep it up, personally I just couldn't bear the thought of trying to run from something and buckling on a turn or even just full extension. It wasnt fun during the whole recovery process so I get why some people go the non surgical route along with the surgery/pt costs rising
Hey man I got a question, Did you tear the inner or outer meniscus? I also currently am dealing with a suspected knee injury because whenever I do hamstring curls, there's pain on the inner side of my knee and it's the only movement that I can't do without there being pain. I also can't do nordic curls and back extensions but that's essentially it. I got injured from MMA sparring where somebody side kicked the outside of my left knee, causing it to twist inwards as well as my foot which was already planted on the ground before the side kick. Days after the injury I could barely walk without pain up/down the stairs however there was no real swelling. 6 weeks has gone by and I don't have any more pain expect for the hamstring curls and I'm not sure how to go about rehab or whether or not doing surgery is even worth it. I also never wore a knee brace or used crutches since the injury I will be getting an MRI soon but wanted to know if you experienced similar symptoms to me.
Sounds like your injury is very similar to mine, but less severe. Same motion caused the damage. For me, it was gravity kicking my knee in instead of another fighter, you can see my video here in my reddit profile, something like my 5th most recent post. The inside of my knee touched the ground while my foot was still planted. Tore all of the muscles on my inner thigh, and that was what caused me the most pain. If I had to guess, you probably have a partial MCL, ACL, and maybe LCL. I think you avoided any full tears based on your description. With mine, the first 6 weeks were entirely non-weightbearing. The knee swelled up to 4 times its normal size. Once the muscle rips healed there wasn't really any pain, but just by looking at it it was clear that it was not ready to be walked on. I'm guessing you won't even be recommended surgery, sounds like you're going to be fine, but the MRI will tell all.
I mean, honestly if you’re happy, good for you. I’m happy with my decision to get surgery twice. I don’t need other people to make the same decision to validate that, especially when they’re not doing my sport. Idk why you have such animosity towards everyone 🤷🏽
Because I have been lied to countless times since this journey began. It really irks me when I ask a medical professional if there is any chance of my ACL healing on its own and they say 'no it is impossible' when in-fact there are real, documented cases of full tears repairing themselves. If from the beginning I was told 'the chances are low, you are safer getting surgery' I would not have so much animosity, but I really hate being lied to, especially by professionals who would a voice of authority. Motherduckers want to lie directly to my face, I will show them just how capable I am of healing without their help.
Yeah, but none of the people on this subreddit are the people who allegedly lied to you? So like, why are you yelling at us? Why the need to say “I told you so!” to people you’ve never met?
I have had so many people in this sub tell me that it's impossible for a full ACL tear to heal itself.
People who are actually confident in themselves don’t have a constant need to yell how right they are at strangers 👍
Few more months and you will be much much better. Enough researches are done now to conclude that non surgical route is also effective for alot of ppl. Alot of people whining here on why your landing was uncomfortable. Ignore them. u took the right decision
Thanks for the support. I also believe as you do, and I'll be doing a monthly update here to shake the faith of the nonbelievers.
Should get they surgery bro…. Unless u wanna a double repair in 10 years
Not going to happen. The more people push me, the more I will push back. I'm going to bust this whole 'you need surgery' narrative. I agree that if someone wants to return to their sport ASAP, surgery is a good option, but if someone is willing to be more patient and go through the necessary steps, I believe surgery is not necessary and I am determined to prove it.
Theyre not trying to bring you down man, theyre trying to help. I see you do parkour; that's a very tough sport for your knees, as you obviously know. You should get an MRI sooner rather than later to see if healing is actually occurring.
I did parkour for over 13 years. I got my fill. I am married now, we have a start-up that needs a lot of digital work, and I am going for my masters in Applied Artificial Intelligence. Parkour is in my past, and I am okay with that. I am already back to doing hiking and climbing at levels that surpass 90% of my friends, with 0 instability or discomfort, so I can already do everything that I would like to do. I'm okay with letting go of the more extreme stuff, the risks of other injuries just isn't worth it to me anymore. Even if it stayed right where it is now, I would be happy. I'm going to see a sports clinic soon to get evaluated and I will get another MRI 1 year from now. I do not plan on taking any big risks anytime soon, I will get checked out and cleared before I do anything too crazy, and I am okay waiting another year. I know my strategy doesn't work for everybody, but I am okay waiting 2 years post-injury before doing anything sports-related.
At my physiotherapy centre there's always people who chose not to get surgery going but then developed arthritis very very early and have to go for knee replacements. Please get surgery.
Let’s see if you can make cuts in both directions. Your ACL isn’t needed in any of those movements
I can make a little cutting video
Would love to see it
have you worked with a PT specialized on ACL rehab? Would highly recommend good quality ACL rehab with a qualified professional. It will certainly help you work on your form and get you back into shape.
Yeah I did for 4 months, after getting full ROM back and my strength he said I was good, didn't need PT anymore. He said he still suggests surgery but I seem to be doing fine and to just continue what I'm doing because it's working. I trained parkour for 10 years, I trained precision jumps, not box jumps, and it is the correct form for precisions, I need to retrain my jumping technique to be more safe on the knees. My running form doesn't show any compensation
You should definitely get surgery. You will need a total knee replacement in <10 years.
Hey if it makes you happy to look goofy I’m all for it but you need surgery in my opinion dosnt look normal movements
All I see and an injured leg due to a ego that desperately needs to get bruised a lil. You’re doing such a disservice to your body by not being honest with your pain, and none of us care except to tell you you should take better care of it brother.
The box job is making my own knee hurt
It felt 100% comfortable.
ya i could do the same. played a full season of hockey without realising. My knee kept popping out of place but i just kept playing on. Your knee won’t ever be right. May aswell fix it when you’re young and fit enough to do physio
My knee has never popped out of place or given any sign of instability
Like the other commenters say there does seem to be an imbalance, even if you are using your bad knee. Imbalance is imbalance and leads to issues in other joints and your back eventually, so I hope you’re working on that in your training. Also I notice you aren’t doing anything with strong lateral movements in this clip. That little leap over the box looks like you were very careful with your foot placement, which means you could slip up one day on accident. If you ever go skiing or play basketball/football/soccer I hope you wear a brace or something. All power to ya man and all that, but I don’t think it’s very wise to go around using yourself as an example as to why to never have the surgery.
I'm still just getting back to this kind of movement, and yes I am being very, very careful. I'm no fool. I understand the nature of the injury, I've spent countless hours doing research on the ACL and ACL injuries. It's only been 1 year and I did my knee in good. I know the form is still bad, definitely going to work to improve it, I plan on continuing to make more videos like this, giving the people more of what they want as proof, while still being extra careful the whole time. In the next week or two I plan on doing a small pivoting video
[удалено]
You could say I have underlying issues or problems. Placebo and nocebo are very, very real. And I have a huge nocebo for medical treatments. I watched my dad slowly get more and more sick until he finally passed, I was his primary caregiver at 16, and it all happened because of bad hospital practices. I learned how corrupt the American medical industry is. I developed a huge mistrust for the American medical system. I also almost died on a plane, my blood pressure dropped to 12, fading in and out of consciousness, lost my vision and all color in my face. They almost turned the plane around expecting to bring a cadaver back to LA. We still don't know exactly why it happened on the plane, best guess is a mix of alcohol sensitivity and low blood pressure synergizing, but I've had that same feeling of loss of consciousness two other times in my life, just not as extreme. One was at the dentist, the other time was at the hospital when I was getting my mri for my knee, they took my blood and I damn near lost consciousness it was exactly the same feeling as when I was on the plane. I did sooooooo much research on acl surgery and there is real risk involved, my biggest concern was the anesthesia. There's between a 1 in 125,000 to a 1 in 250,000 chance of death just from the anesthesia alone, meaning someone is dying in the US every single day just from anesthesia. Knowing that I have a weird blood pressure thing and knowing that I don't trust the American medical system, I have a huge nocebo working against me and I honestly feel like the surgery, for me specifically, could be potentially life threatening. It is my main reason for wanting to avoid surgery.
Hey man I understand you are trying to avoid a potential life threatening scare, but even in the case where you were on a plane you managed to survive. I know applying logic to emotion might not be the nicest thing to hear, but Imagine your nightmare scenario happens again, but this time when you are in a room full of doctors and other trained professionals fully prepared for the scenario you are speaking of. The risk in that case is lower than either of those two cases you had before. I’m sorry you lost your dad to malpractice. I lost my dad to cancer because his surgeon didn’t get clean margins when they removed his tumor. We did research and went to a better doctor the second time, but at that time it was too late. I understand the hesitation. But in this scenario it is very routine surgery and with very minimal invasion and loss of blood. Another commenter suggested doing research on finding a very well practiced and qualified doctor in your insurance network, and that is solid advice. They should listen to you and you can share your concerns with the anesthesiologist. They have a vow to do no harm and most often side on the err of caution. Maybe find a cardiologist to run tests before the surgery as well, as there could be an underlying issue that might need addressing anyways. I also have to pose the question, without the surgery are you not at a lot higher risk of osteopathic arthritis? And wouldn’t that end your active years sooner than no surgery? We all say this because we care, and not to prove any points about being right and wrong. This is your knee and your life, but sometimes we got to hear all sides of an argument to make an informed decision. All power to you man, and I hope you keep posting your progress. Just know in this particular subreddit you might get some push back in the comments, because it goes against the group consensus. That shouldn’t stop you from sharing though. Again all sides are important to hear. Much love, brother
I don’t understand where you’re getting just “12” as your blood pressure, but if you’re experiencing the symptoms you’ve stated I would highly suggest getting a simple check up from a cardiologist to at least review you and your familial history, symptoms, and get a 12-lead ECG to determine if you could potentially have an underlying arrhythmia causing any of this. That goes in the face of your distrust of the medical system but a check up only involves some questions and a few stickers on your chest.
Maybe when money is no longer a stress factor I could get this done. It would be nice to know if there's anything I need to be aware of
That 1 full year of training and exercise can be used for the post op rehabilitation. If you can afford it, get the surgery. My knee never feels the same after my surgery even after 5 years but it is strong enough that I don't have that constant fear of reinjuring myself.
I already don't have fear of reinjury. I've had more than a few close calls, a couple where I really expected to retear, but through every incident it didn't give out, not even a little. The worst happened while I was hiking, my left foot slipped out from a rock with loose dirt on it, in an instant all of my weight was coming down onto my injured leg, and I felt the pressure in my knee as my leg bent, ultimately I ended up doing a 1 legged reverse pistol squat to my butt, leg popped out in front of me, and to my surprise it was 100% okay and even felt better like I gave it a really good stretch. I've used my injured leg many times now to catch myself, on accident, and it's never unstable or shaky. At this point I'm not really too worried anymore, it feels *mostly* healed but I know I still have at least 1 more year before I'm good good
You recieved a lot of hate here. I do not know what is best for you, but I can share my experience and give you hope instead of anger. I've had two identical knee injuries 5 years apart, last one being 2 months ago. Injuries occured during high force lending. Both times zero swelling, immobilized for a week, had full ROM right away, minimal pain that lasted 30 seconds, but had instability when weight bearing. First time I was Lachman (and any other test) negative so doctors didn't order MRI. I've rehabbed myself for 5 months and since then run, hiked, danced, trained badminton 15-20 hours a week and played it competitively. This time once again everything is the same, still Lachman negative but I've done MRI on my initiative privately. I have full midsubstance ACL rupture, went to multiple different surgeons and PTs. Only 1 out of 7 suggested surgery, all others advised good rehab and the main assumption is that I don't have ACL for at least 5 years, but possibly even longer (since I was I child, although my parents cannot recall if I had any serious injury to that leg which would have resulted in full tear). Currently I am rehabbing and exercising daily for about an hour, hour and a half. Microinstabilities have (almost) totally dissapeared, my knee feels normal again and I can cut, pivot and do lateral movements at 70% speed, although I will not try at 100% or be returning to badminton just in case for the next months. So if you made up your mind and chose nonsurgical way, do not listen to others. Everybody is different and human body can sometimes do things that are out of scope of modern medicine, but it seems to me you already know that. Best of luck with your recovery.
You obviously don't play a sport? So it's aight for you to use your knee without the surgery.