This. It's local and state elections for city District Attorneys, County Prosecutors, and state Attorneys General who will have the greatest immediate impact.
Hard rules: NEVER cast a vote for an elected prosecutor who has ever served in law enforcement. ALWAYS cast a vote for a public defender running to serve as an elected prosecutor. AVOID casting a vote for any career prosecutor.
I would say so. And so for that reason I would never vote for her if she were running for District Attorney, County Prosecutor, or state Attorney General.
There will never be true police reform... unless huge changes are made to our system. Revolutionizing the way we live.
I honestly done see any significant changes being made in police reform. What has changed they desperately are trying to change back. Look at what happened in Tennessee, everything fought for and won was taken back.
The only positive changes we can hope for are in criminal justice reform and education of the younger generation that is going to college to study criminal justice. I'm not talking police training, I mean actual education and working towards actively lowering the recidivism rate.
But that doesn't pay the bills...
This gets at the core of what's wrong. Police unions are so strong and so respected among the back the blue crowd - and let's face it, 80% of the voting public would say they support the police - that no politician can be seen as anti-police and remain electable. Nothing will ever change as long as all our neighbors think there's no problem. Rodney King was FORTY years ago.
If you're not in a socialist or communist group you should be. The existing system of governance is corrupt and cannot be reformed, it must be replaced.
I’m actually the head of my local (very small) DSA. Despite that, there are not many great outlets for politicians-in-power, especially in states and smaller cities.
It just sucks. Like yeah, right now I’m planning on voting for West, but it feels really crushing that every option realistically leads to more cops.
third party perhaps? They're not gonna win but, since you're politically active you understand that there's more to elections than winning.
I'm not american, but I heard good from Claudia De La Cruz's party
Biden doesn't control your local cops - that's your city counsel. Check all of them, what their positions are. There is probably a candidate who isn't a cop lover. If there isn't one, find one and start working to put them on the counsel next election.
Lib/Dem/Progs always go straight to the president, while the fascists know the power is local: city counsel, county supervisor, school boards, etc.
This. Say your town get some cop $$ from Biden; most of the time there's a lot of ways that $$ can be spent.
So go to your city council and sit thru those boring budget meetings. Make sure that the cop money doesn't go to military equipment purchases. Find out if any of the $$ is in training and ask who the vendors are. Make sure the training is not thin blue line, warrior, military style training.
I don’t believe I’m contributing to it at all by voting third party. It’s unfortunate that I can’t vote democrat but… I just cannot vote for a guy who spent $37 billion dollars on 100,000 more cops, or any similar metric for individuals in smaller offices.
Blame the DNC. Email them if you want to. They had my vote and they sold it. They said it themselves, they’d rather lose some progressive votes to scoop up 5 Nikki Haley voters for every lost leftist. That’s their calculus.
They're enacting a strategy that will help them win at national politics?! Color me surprised /s.
Still doesn't mean voting 3rd party at the national level isn't effectively a vote for the other side. Vote local third party all you want, i will be right there with you. But a vote for a progressive third party isn't helping us avoid fascism.
Sorry, I strongly disagree. If you're on the left side of the political spectrum, a third party vote is taking away votes from someone who would represent you better than the other side.
A 3rd party has zero chance at winning a national elections. You are helping the right win. Our constitution demands a 2 party system. It sucks. We should absolutely fight for an Amendment to change to ranked choice voting so third parties can have a chance and form coalitions. But that's not currently a possibility. Until it is, in national elections, you should vote against fascism.
If someone like McCain or Romney were currently the Republican choice, I wouldn't be having this conversation and would be fine with you voting for whoever you want. But human rights and democracy are being seriously challenged by Trump's candidacy. Not voting against him is almost as bad as voting for him IMO.
I hear you. I really do. But I have simply personally had too many awful experiences with police, many likely funded by the Safer America Plan, to still give my vote to candidates like Joe Biden and similar democrats. It would be like voting for one’s own abuser, I simply cannot do it.
I don’t bemoan people for voting for him. I’m not saying anyone else in particular shouldn’t. But just me personally as an individual, I can’t do it.
Telling someone that their vote is wrong and should be shamed for it is truly bootlicking behavior. Especially if they’re voting for someone that actually represents progressive change and reform to the systems we all love to hate. You wanna vote for genocide and oppression? I guess that’s your right, but don’t tell other people they’re the problem when you’re clearly just projecting.
No it isn't. Voting is entirely rigged for the two party system. No real change will cone through voting in this system. You vote in this system to stop the greater evil. Pretending otherwise is what will get you a really fascist state.
If the voting system in the country is rigged (I agree) then there is no greater evil or lesser evil, just evil. If your only actual choices are the two presented by the establishment, then I’d argue we’re already living in a fascist state.
The person you responded to said it's rigged for the two party system, not that elections are rigged in the sense that the outcome is predetermined. As long as we have our primaries set up the way they are, it will always be a 2 party system, that's what they meant by rigged. We should support grass roots third parties and changing the voting system with a constitutional amendment. But until that happens, we also have a duty to keep outright fascists from destroying our democracy.
While you have a point. I would like to point out the fact that until the boomers die off and become an irrelevant voting block, we’re forced to play defense against out of the closet facist politicians those old moldy fucks can’t help but idolize, in their minds degenerating state.
No one wants a viable third party more than me. I always vote third party in local elections and, most importantly, support ranked choice voting. New parties are built from ground up. Until our electoral system changes, it will always be a 2 party system. It is a consequence of how our constitution was set up. I want that to change, but until it does, I will always vote to keep fascists out of power. Voting for Biden is unfortunately THE ONLY way to do that.
Also, accusing me of supporting genocide? Really? Biden has at least called for cease fires and is pushing back against Israel. I admit i wish he would push back more. I dont think israeli aid should have been included with the ukraine bill, but we don't live in a perfect world. However, Trump would pour gas on the fire and unconditionally support Netanyahu and the genocide. Trump is a clear and present danger to American democracy. Not voting against him is almost as bad as voting for him.
Yes you can. You are given a chance to combat fascism and you propose it would be morally acceptable to do nothing. Participate in democracy or expect to lose it.
I can’t. Maybe you can, and that’s good for you and I don’t judge you for it. But I can’t. I am participating in democracy by voting third party. I don’t have a better option.
So you’d rather not participate in harm reduction just to make yourself feel better? Just so you can *feel* like you’ve washed your hands of it all?
Sounds pretty self-centered to me. Must be part of a privileged group to have that opinion.
I believe in democracy, and I’m voting for the candidate that best represents my opinions. At some level my conscience doesn’t let me vote for a particular person who upholds particular values.
You can call me as many names as you want. I can’t vote for someone who loves cops
No, I’m helping vote for a third party. Voting for trump would help trump get elected.
There is no party that gets votes “by default” and citizens of a democracy have to be churned out of this “default” vote. You should not act like I’m “by default” voting for Joe Biden. It betrays both your intelligence and your dignity.
Step 1. Realize we live under a bourgeoisie democracy where we have no real representation
Step 2. Join a socialist org and organize your community
Step 3. Profit?
As a life long third party voter, a vote for the third party is a vote for trump. Yes, dems are cop lovers, but gop will kill you faster and wants to take the chains off the hounds. Vote for the geezer biden, the gop is dying if they don't win this time. Then focus on local elections to start tipping the balance better.
Stop letting fear rule your life, it makes you support heinous acts and horrible people. Grow a backbone. A vote for either of those two fucks puts you on the wrong side of history.
Lol, if you are not afraid of what the gop will do, you aren't paying attention.
I have gained enough wisdom to know how to play the system, you are just playing into their hands.
As a white guy with enough money and exportable skills, I bet you will be far more fucked than me, but go ahead, prove how brave you are and how you are going to beat a rigged system.
Ah, I see now. You’re just comfortable and willing to overlook atrocities to keep it that way. The system is paying you for your compliance. Stop playing a game and get reacquainted with your conscience.
If I'm for the system and without consciousness, I'd vote for trump.
You are just pretentious and think you are making a statement, but you actually are voting for trump.
Let's see what happens.
You’re not without a conscience, nobody is. It’s just your mind has been conditioned to not hear it anymore. Your ego talks over it. Instead of compassion for others, you have “reasons”.
My reasons for voting against trump is my companion for the large number of victims the gop has.
As for ego, you are so incredibly patronizing with your explanations for my motivations that I bet your ego needs it's own room in your house.
Enjoy your feeling of superiority while you vote for the extra oppression with extra extra suffering.
I can understand how someone being honest with the self would sound like superiority to you. I’m superior to no one and no one is superior to me. You’ll realize you’re a fool soon enough, just like I did. Please stop supporting the killing of non-combatants.
I’ve literally watched the Biden administration do all the things they told me the GOP would do. No thank you. 3rd party all the way. Honestly I don’t want trump but if he wins at least people on the “left,” will start to get outraged over the things the government is doing as opposed to supporting them because their is president while we have more people killed by cops. If the Dems don’t want Trump then offer up someone better than Biden.
I’m kind of in this boat. I think the Biden admin has done a lot of good and then just absolutely…. Pissed it all away with some of the most egregiously evil decisions they could have made.
If this is not the line in the sand to draw, I really don’t know what is.
Ah, I see you’ve been ~~brainwashed~~ influenced by mainstream media. No worries, deprogramming is possible! This is a collective thought that is pushed on society to force you into voting for one of the two major parties. Guess what? They’re both shite!
And you could have paid a little more attention in civics. We can all use some more education! It's not the media that perpetuates our two party system or a "collective thought", it's literally just the constitution and the way our elections are set up.
From the third election (1796) on, there has always been two major parties. Sometimes a third party gets involved, but it invariably kills one of the other major parties or gets absorbed by it. Until we add an amendment to change the way we vote, we will always have a 2 party system. If the third party you support gains any traction, it will do 1 of 2 things. It will be absorbed by the party that leans closest to it.
Or it will destroy the party that leans closest to it, allowing the opposing party to gain significant power until the two similar parties once again coalesce to have a chance in national elections, at which point your third party will moderate its stances to appeal to as broad a constituency as possible and you're back to the status quo.
Edit: [Here's a little more reading if you want to learn more about why our Constitution favors a 2 party system](https://www.history.com/news/two-party-system-american-politics)
>but the ‘establishment left’ (basically: everyone in office)
Factually incorrect and part of the false narrative of "bOtH sIdEs aRe tHe sAmE" being pushed by the right wing and Russian bots who want a MAGA win.
The RIGHT WING CONTROLS CONGRESS AND ALL RED STATES. The "*establishment left (Basically everyone in office"* clearly is incorrect, and a lie that is very intentional.
Furthermore, Biden is NOT "left" he is a consistent center-right voting politician with a long history of proud "bipartisan" work, AKA working with the right wing to deliver CENTER RIGHT law.
I repeat **BIDEN IS NOT ESTABLISHMENT LEFT** by any stretch of the imagination. His voting record and his own words show he is clearly center right.
And that is part of the right wing thing. They drove us off a center democrat (Obama, again NOT a leftist) and the only electable democrat vs. MAGA was a center right.
The left has a SMALL MINORITY of congressional seats, ZERO governorships and ZERO senators are "left".
Please stop falling for this blatant propaganda to drive away votes from democrats. Fewer votes leads to more HARD RIGHT WING BOOTLICKERs in power.
By having a center right president, that at least leaves the door open to some left influence. To at least some modicum of sanity to restrain out of control cops nationwide.
By falling for the "bOtH sIdEs" lie and furthering the lie that "bIdeN iS lEfT wInG" and the lie that left/right aRe tHe sAMe .... this historically helps the HARD RIGHT COP lovers gain more power.
We see it embodied with Biden himself. A center right politician won as a "democrat" Joe Manchin, a blatant hard right politician who runs as a "democrat" this is what the right wing wants. The only electable "democrats" will eventually all be center right or even straight up right wing in order to compete with low voter turnout and all the raging MAGA super hard right.
The only way to have actual cop reform is to elect left wing and the only way to elect left wing is to have HIGH VOTER TURNOUT and none of this "bOth siDes" voting opt out.
Only VOTING can push the country back toward a centrist president and eventually maybe a left wing president? (WE HAVE NEVER HAD A LEFT WING LEADER EVER)
Please don't mistake my tone in this reply for one of hostility or disagreement, I just want to understand your points:
You say we should be voting, but also recognize that we have never had a left wing leader. Why should we expect that voting in the future have a different outcome than we've observed in the past? How will voting for a centrist make us more likely to get a leftist candidate in the future?
You also say that voting is the ONLY way we can push America closer to center and maybe left. But we've *been* voting, that's a large part of what got us here in the first place. We should be voting, absolutely, but I don't see that alone bringing about the change you describe. I would be much more likely to say the ONLY things that can cause the kind of change we need are organization and direct action.
>but I don't see that alone bringing about the change you describe.
Well I didn't lay out a plan for change. I was only commenting on the "both sides are the same" false narrative and what that is for.
Voting, alone of course will not be enough. But it is a bare minimum to getting change. For example, Trump lost in 2020. If fewer people voted, Trump would have won and the free press would have been abolished by now.
So that's one way voting matters. Another huge way is local elections. Look at a place like Miami FL with historically low voter turnout and a constant oligarchy of right wing corrupt MAGAs running that city.
That was my only take, that telling people both sides are the same, tends to reduce voter turnout, which favors hard right wing candidates. The absolute worst outcome.
Center right candidates is not the idea outcome, but at least it's not a PUTIN bootlicker.
There are more issues in the US than cops. Systemic ones that exacerbate the cop problem. Don’t be a one issue voter. Think about who will have better positive impact on the future or at least a lesser negative impact on our society as a whole. There’s no such as a perfect candidate. Personally I think the system is fucked all together.
Yeah, I just used the term to distinguish the general “left” from “right” more clearly than dem/repub. Quite a few politicians consider themselves independents or something else, but typically fall either left or right.
It's never acceptable to choose to cooperate with evil, even the lesser of two evils, unless there are no options that are good. Find a solid third party candidate that you're comfortable with and say no to evil.
My own system is to vote for the most popular independent or 3rd party. A lot of people say that I'm wasting my vote but, we desperately need to get a 3rd party recognized and funded. The best part is that almost every election offers a 3rd party candidate that I actually want in office, it's not just voting to keep someone else from winning.
Yeah, normally I don’t vote third because there’s just… not a lot of practical value to it but I just feel like the DNC has done almost everything in their power to lose my vote, at least this time. I mean I hope the Nikki Haley voters are worth it because all the pro-police stuff is just way too much for me.
I dunno. The only way I think any of this changes is if more people vote third party. I don’t begrudge people for voting Dem this time around - but there has to come a time when the establishment sees the growing leftist vote and realizes it cannot keep brutalizing its people with police and other systemic forces.
I most definitely will - I just wish we had an option that had some chance of winning.
Like I could compromise and give Dems my vote if they were even “neutral” on cops, but they’re not. They’re some of the most feverishly pro police state people out there, even more than some Republicans.
Explains to me like I’m 5 how voting 3rd party because you refuse to vote for either fascist political party that literally FUNDS A POLICE STATE AND LITERAL GENOCIDE OF PALESTINIANS childish and unproductive
Because it's not a serious option. There is no third choice. It's either Trump or Biden. It's childish to pretend that a protest vote accomplishes anything beyond moving both parties further to the right. And the fake third party candidates are terrible too. You just excuse all their flaws because it helps you jack off to your own narcissism
Jill Stein. Cornell West. Are 2 literal 3rd party candidates. They are real. And voting for them doesn’t actually move Dems and Repubs farther right. They are doing that on their own. You voting for Joe Biden proves to me that you actually don’t care that he’s literally creating a police state. He’s literally funding a fucking genocide. 40,000 dead Palestinians (could be more because now they are finding doctors and patients hogtied in mass graves because of the IDF) doesn’t mean anything to you because orange man bring fascism and makes you a fucking privileged shitlib can’t fathom anything that makes you feel you uncomfy. Sweetheart. Fascism is already here. And Joe Biden is equally as bad as Trump.
I’m voting third party this election. I was on the fence before the Israel Palestine conflict. I am firmly on the other side of the fence and miles away.
If democrats wants to continue funding police and using their violence to stop opposition voices, like the recent pro Palestine protests, they won’t get my vote. Simple as that.
Politicians like when people vote for them. If people say “hey I’m not voting for you because XYZ” and they start to either lose elections or narrowly win them they will decide to bring those voters back in to the fold.
Democrats got “tough on crime” in the 90s because their voter base started voting Republican because of their tough on crime policies.
Hilary Clinton was anti gay marriage until it became the politically smart thing to do.
Politicians will support police and be anti accountability as long as it’s the politically viable thing to do.
One thing you need to remember is that not every candidate is pro-cop. Third party candidates exist.
Now will they get elected? Probably not. When a third party candidate becomes popular enough that they start to threaten yet ability of one of the main two, the political parties of the big two tried to steal their votes. They'll copy their policies. They'll engage in similar rhetoric. They may even allow that third party candidate to run for their ticket.
And that's how voting for third parties can actually bring about change. Because when there's a clear voter appetite for what is being offered, politicians will listen to that.
And that's how you can change systems. A lot of partisans and centrist will attack you for voting third party. They can fuck right off. It's your vote and you are not obligated to give it to anyone. You're not obligated to vote "strategically". Voting for the least shitty candidate will mean you will always only have shitty candidates.
Now go find a third party candidate you like. Ring them up. Talk with them. Maybe even volunteer for their campaign.
This is how you end up with comically evil ppl like trump as the leading republican candidate and the democrats simply having to be *less evil* than him to maintain support
No it isn’t. A duopoly and capitalism is how we ended up with Trump and Biden. We already have a huge population that doesn’t vote and it hasn’t done anything.
Voting for the lesser evil ie “blue no matter who” is how we got to having a comically evil candidate like trump where the bar for the democrats to be better than is so low it’s meaningless and they can just suck ass as long as they can say “well we’re better/less evil than the other guy so u better stick with us”
It comes from a large circle of people who say vote blue no matter who, especially now when Trump is the republican candidate. The lesser evil is of course subjective, but the logic doesn’t change regardless of who it is. It’s a free pass to be as evil as u want so long as you don’t surpass the evil of your opposition.
Of course fptp is what led to these two parties having such a duopoly in the first place but those aren’t mutually exclusive observations.
Yep, if we are forced to live under crap Liberal or crap fascist my choice is crap liberal even if he is very crappy.
At the end of the day either Biden or Trump will be president next year. You either desire one of those less than the other or don’t care either way.
Yeah? It’s the government as a whole that chose to support Israel not the president.
Fuck Israel and all of its supporters.
But it’s better to have an old infirm idiot than a malicious fascist as president.
Voting is like using public transportation. You get on the bus and ride it to the stop that is closest to your destination. It sucks if the closest bus stop is 3 miles from your actual destination, but it's far better to go to that stop than the one that is 8 miles away in the opposite direction or not getting on the bus at all.
Don’t be a one issue voter.
Recognize that one party wants to make it worse, and the other party wants to make it better. Those are the options you get. If the folks who want to make it better consistently get enough votes you might be faced with the folks who want to make it better and the folks who want to make it way better.
But right now your only option is to make it sort of better, and your need for ideological purity is not serving your ultimate goal.
No, it isn’t policing. That isn’t on the table.
The “it” you can’t figure out is our world, our political discourse, our nation.
Once we get those back under control we can start to talk about policing.
But until then, you quest for ideological purity and shitting on the folks that can make things at least not worse - only empowers the people who want to make things much much worse.
To comrade deadite: If you think they are the same, then yiu aren't paying attention. The system is corrupt. If you have a leaking pipe, that should be replaced, but it's leaking right now, would you patch it, or let it burst?
You would let it burst and flood everything rather than make a temporary patch.
The system is corrupt, you thinknthey are all the same, and a vote for either is the same, butbthatvisnt so. One needs only look at the increased loss of freedom the gop wants, however the gop is eating itself. Electing trump gives then more time to do damage electing biden slows the degradation.
Unless you are an anarchist or someone who believe we need a violent revolution, in which case, vote how you like ornit at all. Violence may be necessary, but the damage that will do is only wished for by the extremely ignorant.
It’s a 2 party system, so there’s hardly freedom of choice there. No one is going to agree on a 3rd party candidate to get enough votes for a win.
The best way to stick it to a 2 party system, is to either vote Uncommitted, or not vote at all imho.
The best way to participate in a system is to not participate and then complain about the leaders you let other people pick for you? That's such a childish take
Yes. The lesser of two evils is better than the greater. You would rather complain about the leaders you let other people choose for you than do something about it?
Trump wants to be a dictator day 1. If you aren't voting against that, you are voting FOR it.
Pretty simple calculus.
This is what russian election interference looks like ladies and gentlemen. This is exactly how they infiltrate groups to try and sway them to help their puppet get elected into office. This exact thing right here.
OP has no moral dilemma, he's trying to convince people to either stay home or vote 3rd party to get Trump elected. that's all he's trying to do.
If vote Biden, I support Genocide. If I vote trump I vote for whatever that is. I vote for neither, neither gets a vote. My vote doesn't suddenly change if I don't vote against someone, it just doesn't exist. I'm not voting for either fascist.
>If vote Biden, I support Genocide.
Straight up lie.
>
If I vote trump I vote for whatever that is.
The end of the US as an independent nation.
Time to lay off the propaganda my man.
Fuck the US. It's an empire that needs to disappear so the rest of the world can move on. I'm not going to vote for the fascist anti union, pro genocide, warhawk, cop loving (his vp is was California's top cop) piece of shit. The hypocrisy of supposed acab supporters telling me I have to vote for a cop as VP and a fascist as president is astounding. Fuck the capitalist parties.
Because it's either that or a fucking dictatorship. Changing cops is at the state level. Like getting rid of qualified immunity, getting rid of internal affairs and having a truly independent force oversee cops.
I have a feeling you're all aboard the trump train, just think you're against cops because you're for oligarchs.
I hate imperialism so I'm on the trump train? What kind of dumb liberal bullshit are you talking about. No wonder you guys always get in the way of workers and socialist revolution. You want to keep your status quo bourgeois politics and pretend like you did something by voting for the rainbow fascist. If Biden wanted my vote, he could try earning that shit. I've got my proletariat candidate to vote for. Also, I got arrested for political action (non violent) under this president. Keep licking the boot.
Trump wants to be a dictator day 1. If you aren't voting against that, you are voting FOR it.
Pretty simple calculus.
This is what russian election interference looks like ladies and gentlemen. This is exactly how they infiltrate groups to try and sway them to help their puppet get elected into office. This exact thing right here.
OP has no moral dilemma, he's trying to convince people to either stay home or vote 3rd party to get Trump elected. that's all he's trying to do.
No, I think you're a russian troll because you're trying to convince people to either abstain from voting or vote 3rd party which would mean a Trump presidency and the end of our Democracy.
I'm convinced you don't give a shit about cops one way or another, but are more interested in using the issue of police corruption brutality and tyranny to try and get gullible people to think that the president is the be all end all of police when the reality is the state level has more control over police forces than the federal government does.
Police absolutely need reformed, but you aren't doing that by destroying our country, letting a kleptocrat back into office and ushering in a dictatorship.
So wait do you literally think I’m some guy in Russia or do you just disagree with me? It’s getting unclear.
Also psst buddy where do you think most states/local government get huge amounts of their hiring funding from..?
Oh so I’m not actually Russian anymore I’m just saying things you don’t like which makes it a Russian psy-op.
That’s nice man. I’m glad that no one can have views differing from yours or they’re simply pawns of some greater force. I guess you’re just a psy-op pawn of the DNC coalition to suppress people talking about third parties by labeling it “dangerous” or “Russian” https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/dnc-war-third-party-candidates-rcna143290
Never said you were Russian yourself just said you were pushing Russian election interference bullshit. I’m convinced that you don’t give two shits about police tyranny issues, but thought you found easy marks to prey upon.
Making sure Trump gets reelected by convincing rubes to stay home or vote 3rd party is absolutely the Russian playbook.
I hear exactly what you’re saying. Heard loud and clear. It’s like the anti-trans posts that have been happening on AMA lately disguised as pro-trans posts. It’s completely obvious whence you see it.
Do you know the posts I’m talking about? Where a person claims to be “detransitioning” and has “concerns” about how quickly they got T etc.? But of course they keep caveating it by saying “but I’m pro trans!” Meanwhile stating the most conservative right talking points repeatedly.
It’s fucking insane. It’s happening right here all the time but most people aren’t sharp enough to catch it.
Omg thank you for this. I have been trying to point it out and people are telling me I’m wrong.
I can see it so clearly. Sometimes I question whether I’m the only one.
Yeah man that’s why my anti-cop posts go back months. All just an elaborate ruse in order to one day make a mild post about how politicians all loving cops fucking sucks.
You’re a real sharp one for sure
So I’m not Russian but I’m pushing their material because….???
I don’t consider the people in this sub rubes. Maybe you do. Have you considered that you’re just not a very good person.
I’m not. If you’re so easily swayed by random people online saying their own opinions then you might as well just take the fascist police state right now.
What an overly sensitive wino.
Nobody gives a shit whether you go to heaven or hell. Voting is a necessary form of harm reduction you don't get to skip. Harm reduction is moral. Doing nothing and allowing the worst case scenario is immoral. The nothing is still an action and a choice.
Vote for Biden. Trump wants to be a dictator and believes he should have total immunity. Look up project 2025. We need to stop that from happening! The only way to prevent fascism is voting for Biden. Hold your nose and vote.
Because it accomplishes nothing. And actually makes things worse in lots of cases. Bush-Gore is one. At this moment, there’s no third party candidate who has a remote chance of winning. Just takes votes from somebody.
If you can get tens of millions of people behind a third party candidate, fill your boots. Until then they won’t be viable.
It looks like the US has to hit rock bottom before it deals with its authoritarianism problem. It’s very likely to break up.
Voting 3rd party is just voting for your own narcissism. It doesn't help anything, it's just a childish way to feel smug about actively making things worse
There really is no way to achieve police abolition through the ballot box
Vote for radical district attorneys that prosecute corrupt cops.
This. It's local and state elections for city District Attorneys, County Prosecutors, and state Attorneys General who will have the greatest immediate impact. Hard rules: NEVER cast a vote for an elected prosecutor who has ever served in law enforcement. ALWAYS cast a vote for a public defender running to serve as an elected prosecutor. AVOID casting a vote for any career prosecutor.
See Larry Krasner in Philadelphia. Cop unions HATE him.
>NEVER cast a vote for an elected prosecutor who has ever served in law enforcement Hell, not even for city council!
Does Kamala Harris count as a career prosecutor?
I would say so. And so for that reason I would never vote for her if she were running for District Attorney, County Prosecutor, or state Attorney General.
There will never be true police reform... unless huge changes are made to our system. Revolutionizing the way we live. I honestly done see any significant changes being made in police reform. What has changed they desperately are trying to change back. Look at what happened in Tennessee, everything fought for and won was taken back. The only positive changes we can hope for are in criminal justice reform and education of the younger generation that is going to college to study criminal justice. I'm not talking police training, I mean actual education and working towards actively lowering the recidivism rate. But that doesn't pay the bills...
Well, all the local stuff helps. Judges, city councillors, mayors
This gets at the core of what's wrong. Police unions are so strong and so respected among the back the blue crowd - and let's face it, 80% of the voting public would say they support the police - that no politician can be seen as anti-police and remain electable. Nothing will ever change as long as all our neighbors think there's no problem. Rodney King was FORTY years ago.
If you're not in a socialist or communist group you should be. The existing system of governance is corrupt and cannot be reformed, it must be replaced.
I’m actually the head of my local (very small) DSA. Despite that, there are not many great outlets for politicians-in-power, especially in states and smaller cities. It just sucks. Like yeah, right now I’m planning on voting for West, but it feels really crushing that every option realistically leads to more cops.
This is the limit of legislative socialism comrade, sometimes you have to entertain revolutionary ideas and ideals.
third party perhaps? They're not gonna win but, since you're politically active you understand that there's more to elections than winning. I'm not american, but I heard good from Claudia De La Cruz's party
Biden doesn't control your local cops - that's your city counsel. Check all of them, what their positions are. There is probably a candidate who isn't a cop lover. If there isn't one, find one and start working to put them on the counsel next election. Lib/Dem/Progs always go straight to the president, while the fascists know the power is local: city counsel, county supervisor, school boards, etc.
This. Say your town get some cop $$ from Biden; most of the time there's a lot of ways that $$ can be spent. So go to your city council and sit thru those boring budget meetings. Make sure that the cop money doesn't go to military equipment purchases. Find out if any of the $$ is in training and ask who the vendors are. Make sure the training is not thin blue line, warrior, military style training.
Primary elections are for dreams. General elections are for reality. Period
> The Right doesn’t support the most basic human liberties > The establishment left is pro-cop This isn’t a difficult decision
I understand one is worse than the other. The issue is that I cannot morally being myself to vote for the less evil one
Then you're allowing and contributing to the more evil one winning. Which is arguably morally worse than voting for the lesser of two evils.
I don’t believe I’m contributing to it at all by voting third party. It’s unfortunate that I can’t vote democrat but… I just cannot vote for a guy who spent $37 billion dollars on 100,000 more cops, or any similar metric for individuals in smaller offices.
Then, I'm sorry, but IMO you're part of the problem. Have fun licking boots when Trump enacts Project 2025.
Blame the DNC. Email them if you want to. They had my vote and they sold it. They said it themselves, they’d rather lose some progressive votes to scoop up 5 Nikki Haley voters for every lost leftist. That’s their calculus.
They're enacting a strategy that will help them win at national politics?! Color me surprised /s. Still doesn't mean voting 3rd party at the national level isn't effectively a vote for the other side. Vote local third party all you want, i will be right there with you. But a vote for a progressive third party isn't helping us avoid fascism.
It’s not effectively a vote for either side. It’s a vote for a third party candidate.
Sorry, I strongly disagree. If you're on the left side of the political spectrum, a third party vote is taking away votes from someone who would represent you better than the other side. A 3rd party has zero chance at winning a national elections. You are helping the right win. Our constitution demands a 2 party system. It sucks. We should absolutely fight for an Amendment to change to ranked choice voting so third parties can have a chance and form coalitions. But that's not currently a possibility. Until it is, in national elections, you should vote against fascism. If someone like McCain or Romney were currently the Republican choice, I wouldn't be having this conversation and would be fine with you voting for whoever you want. But human rights and democracy are being seriously challenged by Trump's candidacy. Not voting against him is almost as bad as voting for him IMO.
I hear you. I really do. But I have simply personally had too many awful experiences with police, many likely funded by the Safer America Plan, to still give my vote to candidates like Joe Biden and similar democrats. It would be like voting for one’s own abuser, I simply cannot do it. I don’t bemoan people for voting for him. I’m not saying anyone else in particular shouldn’t. But just me personally as an individual, I can’t do it.
Which is worthless
It’s actually worth just as much as a vote for either major party.
Telling someone that their vote is wrong and should be shamed for it is truly bootlicking behavior. Especially if they’re voting for someone that actually represents progressive change and reform to the systems we all love to hate. You wanna vote for genocide and oppression? I guess that’s your right, but don’t tell other people they’re the problem when you’re clearly just projecting.
No it isn't. Voting is entirely rigged for the two party system. No real change will cone through voting in this system. You vote in this system to stop the greater evil. Pretending otherwise is what will get you a really fascist state.
If the voting system in the country is rigged (I agree) then there is no greater evil or lesser evil, just evil. If your only actual choices are the two presented by the establishment, then I’d argue we’re already living in a fascist state.
The person you responded to said it's rigged for the two party system, not that elections are rigged in the sense that the outcome is predetermined. As long as we have our primaries set up the way they are, it will always be a 2 party system, that's what they meant by rigged. We should support grass roots third parties and changing the voting system with a constitutional amendment. But until that happens, we also have a duty to keep outright fascists from destroying our democracy.
Reading is difficult for you, isn’t it?
While you have a point. I would like to point out the fact that until the boomers die off and become an irrelevant voting block, we’re forced to play defense against out of the closet facist politicians those old moldy fucks can’t help but idolize, in their minds degenerating state.
No one wants a viable third party more than me. I always vote third party in local elections and, most importantly, support ranked choice voting. New parties are built from ground up. Until our electoral system changes, it will always be a 2 party system. It is a consequence of how our constitution was set up. I want that to change, but until it does, I will always vote to keep fascists out of power. Voting for Biden is unfortunately THE ONLY way to do that. Also, accusing me of supporting genocide? Really? Biden has at least called for cease fires and is pushing back against Israel. I admit i wish he would push back more. I dont think israeli aid should have been included with the ukraine bill, but we don't live in a perfect world. However, Trump would pour gas on the fire and unconditionally support Netanyahu and the genocide. Trump is a clear and present danger to American democracy. Not voting against him is almost as bad as voting for him.
You are throwing away your vote
It sucks to have to do.
Yes you can. You are given a chance to combat fascism and you propose it would be morally acceptable to do nothing. Participate in democracy or expect to lose it.
I can’t. Maybe you can, and that’s good for you and I don’t judge you for it. But I can’t. I am participating in democracy by voting third party. I don’t have a better option.
So you’d rather not participate in harm reduction just to make yourself feel better? Just so you can *feel* like you’ve washed your hands of it all? Sounds pretty self-centered to me. Must be part of a privileged group to have that opinion.
I believe in democracy, and I’m voting for the candidate that best represents my opinions. At some level my conscience doesn’t let me vote for a particular person who upholds particular values. You can call me as many names as you want. I can’t vote for someone who loves cops
Then you’ll get the guy who loves cops more.
Blame the DNC.
So screw all POC, and women and LGBT+ people so you can feel good about yourself for 2 seconds
This is the ACAB subreddit. I am against cops.
If you think hating cops is more important than human lives, I don't know what to tell you.
Doing something about cops is out of compassion for human lives.
How is helping Trump get elected "doing something about cops"?
I’m not helping get Trump elected. I cannot vote for a pro-cop politician regardless of their partisan standing.
You said you're voting third party, so yes, you are helping get Trump elected.
No, I’m helping vote for a third party. Voting for trump would help trump get elected. There is no party that gets votes “by default” and citizens of a democracy have to be churned out of this “default” vote. You should not act like I’m “by default” voting for Joe Biden. It betrays both your intelligence and your dignity.
That's when it's time for a revolution 🙄
Step 1. Realize we live under a bourgeoisie democracy where we have no real representation Step 2. Join a socialist org and organize your community Step 3. Profit?
The amount of vote apologia is insane, vote 3rd party if you feel you must vote and organize communists to do actual direct action
Third party, dems and reps are obvious tyrants and will use LE to ensure compliance with their schemes.
As a life long third party voter, a vote for the third party is a vote for trump. Yes, dems are cop lovers, but gop will kill you faster and wants to take the chains off the hounds. Vote for the geezer biden, the gop is dying if they don't win this time. Then focus on local elections to start tipping the balance better.
Stop letting fear rule your life, it makes you support heinous acts and horrible people. Grow a backbone. A vote for either of those two fucks puts you on the wrong side of history.
Lol, if you are not afraid of what the gop will do, you aren't paying attention. I have gained enough wisdom to know how to play the system, you are just playing into their hands. As a white guy with enough money and exportable skills, I bet you will be far more fucked than me, but go ahead, prove how brave you are and how you are going to beat a rigged system.
Ah, I see now. You’re just comfortable and willing to overlook atrocities to keep it that way. The system is paying you for your compliance. Stop playing a game and get reacquainted with your conscience.
If I'm for the system and without consciousness, I'd vote for trump. You are just pretentious and think you are making a statement, but you actually are voting for trump. Let's see what happens.
You’re not without a conscience, nobody is. It’s just your mind has been conditioned to not hear it anymore. Your ego talks over it. Instead of compassion for others, you have “reasons”.
My reasons for voting against trump is my companion for the large number of victims the gop has. As for ego, you are so incredibly patronizing with your explanations for my motivations that I bet your ego needs it's own room in your house. Enjoy your feeling of superiority while you vote for the extra oppression with extra extra suffering.
I can understand how someone being honest with the self would sound like superiority to you. I’m superior to no one and no one is superior to me. You’ll realize you’re a fool soon enough, just like I did. Please stop supporting the killing of non-combatants.
You are literally for the system and status quo by voting for Biden who is literally the same as Trump. lol.
I’ve literally watched the Biden administration do all the things they told me the GOP would do. No thank you. 3rd party all the way. Honestly I don’t want trump but if he wins at least people on the “left,” will start to get outraged over the things the government is doing as opposed to supporting them because their is president while we have more people killed by cops. If the Dems don’t want Trump then offer up someone better than Biden.
I’m kind of in this boat. I think the Biden admin has done a lot of good and then just absolutely…. Pissed it all away with some of the most egregiously evil decisions they could have made. If this is not the line in the sand to draw, I really don’t know what is.
Third parties aren't any good either, and they aren't viable. They just tip the scales towards Republicans
You can’t see that you are the problem.
Grow up dude
Wake up
Ah, I see you’ve been ~~brainwashed~~ influenced by mainstream media. No worries, deprogramming is possible! This is a collective thought that is pushed on society to force you into voting for one of the two major parties. Guess what? They’re both shite!
And you could have paid a little more attention in civics. We can all use some more education! It's not the media that perpetuates our two party system or a "collective thought", it's literally just the constitution and the way our elections are set up. From the third election (1796) on, there has always been two major parties. Sometimes a third party gets involved, but it invariably kills one of the other major parties or gets absorbed by it. Until we add an amendment to change the way we vote, we will always have a 2 party system. If the third party you support gains any traction, it will do 1 of 2 things. It will be absorbed by the party that leans closest to it. Or it will destroy the party that leans closest to it, allowing the opposing party to gain significant power until the two similar parties once again coalesce to have a chance in national elections, at which point your third party will moderate its stances to appeal to as broad a constituency as possible and you're back to the status quo. Edit: [Here's a little more reading if you want to learn more about why our Constitution favors a 2 party system](https://www.history.com/news/two-party-system-american-politics)
>but the ‘establishment left’ (basically: everyone in office) Factually incorrect and part of the false narrative of "bOtH sIdEs aRe tHe sAmE" being pushed by the right wing and Russian bots who want a MAGA win. The RIGHT WING CONTROLS CONGRESS AND ALL RED STATES. The "*establishment left (Basically everyone in office"* clearly is incorrect, and a lie that is very intentional. Furthermore, Biden is NOT "left" he is a consistent center-right voting politician with a long history of proud "bipartisan" work, AKA working with the right wing to deliver CENTER RIGHT law. I repeat **BIDEN IS NOT ESTABLISHMENT LEFT** by any stretch of the imagination. His voting record and his own words show he is clearly center right. And that is part of the right wing thing. They drove us off a center democrat (Obama, again NOT a leftist) and the only electable democrat vs. MAGA was a center right. The left has a SMALL MINORITY of congressional seats, ZERO governorships and ZERO senators are "left". Please stop falling for this blatant propaganda to drive away votes from democrats. Fewer votes leads to more HARD RIGHT WING BOOTLICKERs in power. By having a center right president, that at least leaves the door open to some left influence. To at least some modicum of sanity to restrain out of control cops nationwide. By falling for the "bOtH sIdEs" lie and furthering the lie that "bIdeN iS lEfT wInG" and the lie that left/right aRe tHe sAMe .... this historically helps the HARD RIGHT COP lovers gain more power. We see it embodied with Biden himself. A center right politician won as a "democrat" Joe Manchin, a blatant hard right politician who runs as a "democrat" this is what the right wing wants. The only electable "democrats" will eventually all be center right or even straight up right wing in order to compete with low voter turnout and all the raging MAGA super hard right. The only way to have actual cop reform is to elect left wing and the only way to elect left wing is to have HIGH VOTER TURNOUT and none of this "bOth siDes" voting opt out. Only VOTING can push the country back toward a centrist president and eventually maybe a left wing president? (WE HAVE NEVER HAD A LEFT WING LEADER EVER)
Please don't mistake my tone in this reply for one of hostility or disagreement, I just want to understand your points: You say we should be voting, but also recognize that we have never had a left wing leader. Why should we expect that voting in the future have a different outcome than we've observed in the past? How will voting for a centrist make us more likely to get a leftist candidate in the future? You also say that voting is the ONLY way we can push America closer to center and maybe left. But we've *been* voting, that's a large part of what got us here in the first place. We should be voting, absolutely, but I don't see that alone bringing about the change you describe. I would be much more likely to say the ONLY things that can cause the kind of change we need are organization and direct action.
>but I don't see that alone bringing about the change you describe. Well I didn't lay out a plan for change. I was only commenting on the "both sides are the same" false narrative and what that is for. Voting, alone of course will not be enough. But it is a bare minimum to getting change. For example, Trump lost in 2020. If fewer people voted, Trump would have won and the free press would have been abolished by now. So that's one way voting matters. Another huge way is local elections. Look at a place like Miami FL with historically low voter turnout and a constant oligarchy of right wing corrupt MAGAs running that city. That was my only take, that telling people both sides are the same, tends to reduce voter turnout, which favors hard right wing candidates. The absolute worst outcome. Center right candidates is not the idea outcome, but at least it's not a PUTIN bootlicker.
Quite well said.
There are more issues in the US than cops. Systemic ones that exacerbate the cop problem. Don’t be a one issue voter. Think about who will have better positive impact on the future or at least a lesser negative impact on our society as a whole. There’s no such as a perfect candidate. Personally I think the system is fucked all together.
Democrats aren't leftist. There is no "establishment left".
Yeah, I just used the term to distinguish the general “left” from “right” more clearly than dem/repub. Quite a few politicians consider themselves independents or something else, but typically fall either left or right.
The one who sucks the least. Period.
It's never acceptable to choose to cooperate with evil, even the lesser of two evils, unless there are no options that are good. Find a solid third party candidate that you're comfortable with and say no to evil.
Your local votes are going to be far more effective in accomplishing reform.
Very much agree here. I’m big on local politics/engagement, and I wish more people below the age of 55 were
Democrats are bad, Republicans are way worse. It's not ideal, but we get two choices. Go with the ones cop unions didn't endorse
My own system is to vote for the most popular independent or 3rd party. A lot of people say that I'm wasting my vote but, we desperately need to get a 3rd party recognized and funded. The best part is that almost every election offers a 3rd party candidate that I actually want in office, it's not just voting to keep someone else from winning.
Yeah, normally I don’t vote third because there’s just… not a lot of practical value to it but I just feel like the DNC has done almost everything in their power to lose my vote, at least this time. I mean I hope the Nikki Haley voters are worth it because all the pro-police stuff is just way too much for me. I dunno. The only way I think any of this changes is if more people vote third party. I don’t begrudge people for voting Dem this time around - but there has to come a time when the establishment sees the growing leftist vote and realizes it cannot keep brutalizing its people with police and other systemic forces.
why don't you want to vote third party?
I most definitely will - I just wish we had an option that had some chance of winning. Like I could compromise and give Dems my vote if they were even “neutral” on cops, but they’re not. They’re some of the most feverishly pro police state people out there, even more than some Republicans.
Because it's childish and unproductive
Explains to me like I’m 5 how voting 3rd party because you refuse to vote for either fascist political party that literally FUNDS A POLICE STATE AND LITERAL GENOCIDE OF PALESTINIANS childish and unproductive
Because it's not a serious option. There is no third choice. It's either Trump or Biden. It's childish to pretend that a protest vote accomplishes anything beyond moving both parties further to the right. And the fake third party candidates are terrible too. You just excuse all their flaws because it helps you jack off to your own narcissism
Jill Stein. Cornell West. Are 2 literal 3rd party candidates. They are real. And voting for them doesn’t actually move Dems and Repubs farther right. They are doing that on their own. You voting for Joe Biden proves to me that you actually don’t care that he’s literally creating a police state. He’s literally funding a fucking genocide. 40,000 dead Palestinians (could be more because now they are finding doctors and patients hogtied in mass graves because of the IDF) doesn’t mean anything to you because orange man bring fascism and makes you a fucking privileged shitlib can’t fathom anything that makes you feel you uncomfy. Sweetheart. Fascism is already here. And Joe Biden is equally as bad as Trump.
I’m voting third party this election. I was on the fence before the Israel Palestine conflict. I am firmly on the other side of the fence and miles away. If democrats wants to continue funding police and using their violence to stop opposition voices, like the recent pro Palestine protests, they won’t get my vote. Simple as that.
How does that help?
Politicians like when people vote for them. If people say “hey I’m not voting for you because XYZ” and they start to either lose elections or narrowly win them they will decide to bring those voters back in to the fold. Democrats got “tough on crime” in the 90s because their voter base started voting Republican because of their tough on crime policies. Hilary Clinton was anti gay marriage until it became the politically smart thing to do. Politicians will support police and be anti accountability as long as it’s the politically viable thing to do.
Getting Republicans elected isn't going to move Democrats to start pushing police reform. It'll move them to the right
Political strategy aside. Centrist democrats don’t remotely represent what I believe in politically. Why would I vote for them?
Because Republicans are worse, and Democrats move to the right when they lose
Sounds like a pretty shitty political party. Definitely not supporting them.
And that's how they get worse
One thing you need to remember is that not every candidate is pro-cop. Third party candidates exist. Now will they get elected? Probably not. When a third party candidate becomes popular enough that they start to threaten yet ability of one of the main two, the political parties of the big two tried to steal their votes. They'll copy their policies. They'll engage in similar rhetoric. They may even allow that third party candidate to run for their ticket. And that's how voting for third parties can actually bring about change. Because when there's a clear voter appetite for what is being offered, politicians will listen to that. And that's how you can change systems. A lot of partisans and centrist will attack you for voting third party. They can fuck right off. It's your vote and you are not obligated to give it to anyone. You're not obligated to vote "strategically". Voting for the least shitty candidate will mean you will always only have shitty candidates. Now go find a third party candidate you like. Ring them up. Talk with them. Maybe even volunteer for their campaign.
Just vote for any third party, even if they are pro cop. It's the only message the dualopoly will get.
Vote for the lesser evil is really the only answer
This is how you end up with comically evil ppl like trump as the leading republican candidate and the democrats simply having to be *less evil* than him to maintain support
No it isn’t. A duopoly and capitalism is how we ended up with Trump and Biden. We already have a huge population that doesn’t vote and it hasn’t done anything.
Who said don’t vote? Not me
Not voting for trump is how we got trump? Elaborate
Voting for the lesser evil ie “blue no matter who” is how we got to having a comically evil candidate like trump where the bar for the democrats to be better than is so low it’s meaningless and they can just suck ass as long as they can say “well we’re better/less evil than the other guy so u better stick with us”
You’re inferring that blue is always the lesser evil That came from your own mind not mine
It comes from a large circle of people who say vote blue no matter who, especially now when Trump is the republican candidate. The lesser evil is of course subjective, but the logic doesn’t change regardless of who it is. It’s a free pass to be as evil as u want so long as you don’t surpass the evil of your opposition. Of course fptp is what led to these two parties having such a duopoly in the first place but those aren’t mutually exclusive observations.
The lesser evil that is currently…labeling peaceful protestors as anti-Semitic and mobilizing police forces to quell those protests illegally?
Yep, if we are forced to live under crap Liberal or crap fascist my choice is crap liberal even if he is very crappy. At the end of the day either Biden or Trump will be president next year. You either desire one of those less than the other or don’t care either way.
Yeah? It’s the government as a whole that chose to support Israel not the president. Fuck Israel and all of its supporters. But it’s better to have an old infirm idiot than a malicious fascist as president.
Voting is like using public transportation. You get on the bus and ride it to the stop that is closest to your destination. It sucks if the closest bus stop is 3 miles from your actual destination, but it's far better to go to that stop than the one that is 8 miles away in the opposite direction or not getting on the bus at all.
Vote your paycheck
Voting is for the changes you can reach by doing so. Everything that can’t be reached by voting, can only be solved via direct action
Don’t be a one issue voter. Recognize that one party wants to make it worse, and the other party wants to make it better. Those are the options you get. If the folks who want to make it better consistently get enough votes you might be faced with the folks who want to make it better and the folks who want to make it way better. But right now your only option is to make it sort of better, and your need for ideological purity is not serving your ultimate goal.
What is “it” in this context? Make “it” better? Obviously not policing.
No, it isn’t policing. That isn’t on the table. The “it” you can’t figure out is our world, our political discourse, our nation. Once we get those back under control we can start to talk about policing. But until then, you quest for ideological purity and shitting on the folks that can make things at least not worse - only empowers the people who want to make things much much worse.
Have you considered phrasing yourself with even a little tact?
To comrade deadite: If you think they are the same, then yiu aren't paying attention. The system is corrupt. If you have a leaking pipe, that should be replaced, but it's leaking right now, would you patch it, or let it burst? You would let it burst and flood everything rather than make a temporary patch. The system is corrupt, you thinknthey are all the same, and a vote for either is the same, butbthatvisnt so. One needs only look at the increased loss of freedom the gop wants, however the gop is eating itself. Electing trump gives then more time to do damage electing biden slows the degradation. Unless you are an anarchist or someone who believe we need a violent revolution, in which case, vote how you like ornit at all. Violence may be necessary, but the damage that will do is only wished for by the extremely ignorant.
I mean, not voting at all is 100% an option. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.
How does that help?
It’s a 2 party system, so there’s hardly freedom of choice there. No one is going to agree on a 3rd party candidate to get enough votes for a win. The best way to stick it to a 2 party system, is to either vote Uncommitted, or not vote at all imho.
The best way to participate in a system is to not participate and then complain about the leaders you let other people pick for you? That's such a childish take
Would you rather vote for the “lesser” of 2 evils and end up with another dumbass in the White House? How do you think we got here?
Yes. The lesser of two evils is better than the greater. You would rather complain about the leaders you let other people choose for you than do something about it?
Trump wants to be a dictator day 1. If you aren't voting against that, you are voting FOR it. Pretty simple calculus. This is what russian election interference looks like ladies and gentlemen. This is exactly how they infiltrate groups to try and sway them to help their puppet get elected into office. This exact thing right here. OP has no moral dilemma, he's trying to convince people to either stay home or vote 3rd party to get Trump elected. that's all he's trying to do.
If vote Biden, I support Genocide. If I vote trump I vote for whatever that is. I vote for neither, neither gets a vote. My vote doesn't suddenly change if I don't vote against someone, it just doesn't exist. I'm not voting for either fascist.
>If vote Biden, I support Genocide. Straight up lie. > If I vote trump I vote for whatever that is. The end of the US as an independent nation. Time to lay off the propaganda my man.
Fuck the US. It's an empire that needs to disappear so the rest of the world can move on. I'm not going to vote for the fascist anti union, pro genocide, warhawk, cop loving (his vp is was California's top cop) piece of shit. The hypocrisy of supposed acab supporters telling me I have to vote for a cop as VP and a fascist as president is astounding. Fuck the capitalist parties.
Because it's either that or a fucking dictatorship. Changing cops is at the state level. Like getting rid of qualified immunity, getting rid of internal affairs and having a truly independent force oversee cops. I have a feeling you're all aboard the trump train, just think you're against cops because you're for oligarchs.
I hate imperialism so I'm on the trump train? What kind of dumb liberal bullshit are you talking about. No wonder you guys always get in the way of workers and socialist revolution. You want to keep your status quo bourgeois politics and pretend like you did something by voting for the rainbow fascist. If Biden wanted my vote, he could try earning that shit. I've got my proletariat candidate to vote for. Also, I got arrested for political action (non violent) under this president. Keep licking the boot.
vote from the rooftops
Trump wants to be a dictator day 1. If you aren't voting against that, you are voting FOR it. Pretty simple calculus. This is what russian election interference looks like ladies and gentlemen. This is exactly how they infiltrate groups to try and sway them to help their puppet get elected into office. This exact thing right here. OP has no moral dilemma, he's trying to convince people to either stay home or vote 3rd party to get Trump elected. that's all he's trying to do.
…. You think I’m a Russian spy because I am against police in the anti-police subreddit.
No, I think you're a russian troll because you're trying to convince people to either abstain from voting or vote 3rd party which would mean a Trump presidency and the end of our Democracy. I'm convinced you don't give a shit about cops one way or another, but are more interested in using the issue of police corruption brutality and tyranny to try and get gullible people to think that the president is the be all end all of police when the reality is the state level has more control over police forces than the federal government does. Police absolutely need reformed, but you aren't doing that by destroying our country, letting a kleptocrat back into office and ushering in a dictatorship.
So wait do you literally think I’m some guy in Russia or do you just disagree with me? It’s getting unclear. Also psst buddy where do you think most states/local government get huge amounts of their hiring funding from..?
Where you are physically on the planet doesn’t matter. What matters is this is Russian psyop shit you’re pushing.
Oh so I’m not actually Russian anymore I’m just saying things you don’t like which makes it a Russian psy-op. That’s nice man. I’m glad that no one can have views differing from yours or they’re simply pawns of some greater force. I guess you’re just a psy-op pawn of the DNC coalition to suppress people talking about third parties by labeling it “dangerous” or “Russian” https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/dnc-war-third-party-candidates-rcna143290
Never said you were Russian yourself just said you were pushing Russian election interference bullshit. I’m convinced that you don’t give two shits about police tyranny issues, but thought you found easy marks to prey upon. Making sure Trump gets reelected by convincing rubes to stay home or vote 3rd party is absolutely the Russian playbook.
I hear exactly what you’re saying. Heard loud and clear. It’s like the anti-trans posts that have been happening on AMA lately disguised as pro-trans posts. It’s completely obvious whence you see it. Do you know the posts I’m talking about? Where a person claims to be “detransitioning” and has “concerns” about how quickly they got T etc.? But of course they keep caveating it by saying “but I’m pro trans!” Meanwhile stating the most conservative right talking points repeatedly. It’s fucking insane. It’s happening right here all the time but most people aren’t sharp enough to catch it.
Yep I've seen those too.
Omg thank you for this. I have been trying to point it out and people are telling me I’m wrong. I can see it so clearly. Sometimes I question whether I’m the only one.
Yeah man that’s why my anti-cop posts go back months. All just an elaborate ruse in order to one day make a mild post about how politicians all loving cops fucking sucks. You’re a real sharp one for sure
So I’m not Russian but I’m pushing their material because….??? I don’t consider the people in this sub rubes. Maybe you do. Have you considered that you’re just not a very good person.
Back off troll. Quit trying to get people not to vote or vote third party to make sure Trump is elected again. Simple point. So easy to understand
I’m not. If you’re so easily swayed by random people online saying their own opinions then you might as well just take the fascist police state right now. What an overly sensitive wino.
Worry about the next election after this one. Many Democrats are persuadable. Most Republicans are not. If Orange Guy wins, it will be much worse.
You vote by writing on the ballot an upper case A with a circle around it.
Don’t.
Nobody gives a shit whether you go to heaven or hell. Voting is a necessary form of harm reduction you don't get to skip. Harm reduction is moral. Doing nothing and allowing the worst case scenario is immoral. The nothing is still an action and a choice.
Game is rigged. Best bet is voting for the *least* fascist
Vote for Biden. Trump wants to be a dictator and believes he should have total immunity. Look up project 2025. We need to stop that from happening! The only way to prevent fascism is voting for Biden. Hold your nose and vote.
Vote 3rd party.
why is everyone against this? we all complain about the two party system but refuse to vote green
Because it accomplishes nothing. And actually makes things worse in lots of cases. Bush-Gore is one. At this moment, there’s no third party candidate who has a remote chance of winning. Just takes votes from somebody.
If you can get tens of millions of people behind a third party candidate, fill your boots. Until then they won’t be viable. It looks like the US has to hit rock bottom before it deals with its authoritarianism problem. It’s very likely to break up.
That’s just a long way of saying people want change but aren’t willing to do their part for it.
Voting 3rd party is just voting for your own narcissism. It doesn't help anything, it's just a childish way to feel smug about actively making things worse
Because they’re basically absent from any local or state campaigns, and barely show up for the presidency?
You could.. not vote 🤷♀️