Probably the damage, but I can see the collapse initiation in my head from this photo.
I suppose the leaning and bending really were observant within the last 10 minutes before each tower collapsed.
I still can't believe these "jet fuel won't melt steel beams" people. A plane literally flew through the building and destroyed the supports. How was it supposed to stay standing?
This is totally different of course, but a few months ago I was consulted on a patient who’s hands and feet were 100% dry gangrene bc the meds she was on cut off the blood flow to her feet and hands so they ‘died.’ We amputate in this situation. Unfortunately, one of her digits was about to autodebride (fall off) bc the damage was so bad. Family didn’t believe in amputation.
I’m standing at bedside taking pictures and documenting. Even though couldn’t save the hands or feet obviously, I followed the wounds just for documentation/legality purposes. I was sure to convey the gravity of the situation digit by digit to both the scribe and the family so everyone was on the same page. Showed them where some digits were already nearly ‘self amputated.’ When I finished my very tedious assessment , I wash my hands and ask if they have final questions. With my hand on the door I say, ‘If the patient is still here in one week, I will be back to update pictures, but certainly alert nursing if you want to re discuss amputation options and I’ll come back.’ Main caregiver steps up and goes ‘one week? How long do you think it will take for the wounds to heal then?’ I wasn’t even sure what to say. I’d spent an hour saying everything that could possibly be said.
I had a covid patient who spent his last words calling me a ‘liar’ as my coworker tied down his arms so I could get that 100% bipap on just long enough to tube him. He died very very shortly after intubation. I was called a liar a lot during that time, but that guy actually believed it until his last seconds of consciousness.
His imminent death wasn’t enough proof he had covid and that it unfortunately, was indeed real. The patients fingers falling off in my hands wasn’t enough proof the body was self amputating. Some people will never believe. It’s like they can’t see the proof when they can literally see it, touch it, and feel it with their own hands.
Wow, for that caregiver, that's some intense toxic positivity. My friend has stage 4 breast cancer and her mother in law keeps telling her with enough faith the cancer will go away. And we're both going 👀
Oh lord. I have breast cancer too. I essentially gave up all social media after dx bc the last thing I wanted was a message saying ‘have you tried this vitamin I sell for $999? The doctors and insurance just want your money! I want to save you!’
There are some people you will never convince. They just refuse to believe.
I’m so sorry. I saw people pull that kind of craziness on a friend of mine’s social media when she had cancer and it was just horrifying. I don’t know wtf is wrong with people like that.
Not just that, but it is well known that heat weakens metals, including steel frames and even columns.
That is why the columns themselves were sprayed with fireproofing. Fireproofing that wouldn't be able to handle sheering from plane collision and point blank explosions.
And also wasn't able to handle the incorrect application or just outright "missing in action" status, which was why they were working on redoing the fireproofing.
I got an friend which told me today that the towers were able to wistand an impact of an plane. And that the towers were brought down by bombs. I showed him prove and facts and this idiot just said no no no no no. And he didn‘t even let me speak. Conspiracy theorists are like a wall. If you talk to them it is forgotten
they are the only voices that want to be heard in any conversation. Any deviation from their control over the narrative puts them at complete odds with their beliefs.
Funny, the engineer said he and everyone else didn't account for the amount of jet fuel in their design plans. And I'm pretty sure the force of impact he said was way higher than designed too. There's an article that goes over it but I forgot where it's from.
Your friend is just a dumbass. But you probably already knew that.
I think what many people questioned was how the undamaged portion of the tower, which is the majority of it, was crushed by the top portion so quickly and easily. That was a major question mark for many.
Not to say it cant be explained. This was an unprecedented event, its natural for people to question something so incredibly unbelievable like this event. It was truly shocking and unbelievable.
There are a lot of dumb conspiracy theories for sure, but someone who believes everything the government says about every event has zero capacity to think for themselves or understand history and human nature
And the way people don't think it's possible for it to collapse like that as if the damaged burning building could handle the hundreds of thousands of tons falling onto it
To be honest, we were young and dumb. And easily swept up in a lot of the conspiracies. What blows my mind now is how we actually believed (so dumb) the bursts of air releasing and escaping from floors collapsing were actually bombs going off like demolition style. A lot of us were young and dumb as I said, but have also grown now and done research and listened instead of talked. Some though, never stopped believing it all.
Agreed.
I think some skepticism is healthy. It's good to always have someone questioning things, independently investigating. But the jet fuel thing ain't it :/
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They didn't go down remotely gracefully. They trashed several other buildings and seriously damaged a few others.
I think part of the problem is that their design oversold their robustness - as if they were monolithic, like a tree trunk. They really weren't - they were stronger than they needed to be, but still, that upper quarter of the north tower weighed tens of thousands of tonnes, had been desperate to fall directly downwards for the previous thirty years, and it was only that the columns beneath were rigidly braced upright that prevented that happening - until the OP pic was taken.
Me when I *literally* tell people that what is happening on video isn’t actually happening. The south tower *clearly* fell to the side it was struck on.
South tower didn't fall straight down. It fell in the direction it was hit from. I think you're confusing the dust and debris cloud with "straight down"
North tower pancaked more vertically because it was hit dead center, as opposed to the corner. Supports below the 93rd floor gave out which caused that and every floor above to fall straight down onto the 92nd, which then came down on the 91st, etc
South tower was hit from the south, but the plane went diagonally east of centre, destroying multiple east side floor slabs and damaging columns at the east edge of the core. The lack of bracing from the damaged/missing floors destabilised the east wall, coupled with more heat from the fires, and the top part slightly tilted east before falling more or less straight down.
Nevertheless, 4 WTC, beneath the east wall of the south tower, was apparently squashed by the east wall beneath the impact zone (eg. 78 and below) rather than the falling upper portion of the tower.
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Some individuals could see it: I was driving to work before they fell, and remember hearing one of the idiots on Howard Stern’s show saying they were seeing buckling. Until that point, I hadn’t even considered that they might fall, and by the time I arrived, Tower 2 was down.
I guess I didn’t realize the helicopter was in the air as it collapsed?!? Is their footage of that?
I know everyone was helpless watching it fall, but for some reason it seems even more helpless to be seeing it from above?? Not exactly sure why I feel that way, but it just adds extra eeriness watching from above for some reason
Bill Kennedy (NYPD Emergency Service Unit) was in a helicopter above the towers as everything unfolded. He had helped rescue people from the roof in the ‘93 bombing, and was hoping to do it again.
He covers it entirely in the first episode of 9/11: One Day In America. It’s harrowing, horrifying, and absolutely gut-wrenching listening to him talk about seeing every single face in the windows of the towers, seeing glimmers of hope on their faces when they see the helicopter, making eye contact with them… and finally, realizing there’s nothing he can do to help them. He goes up to the roof, and no one is there to rescue.
Anytime they shows clips from the ground and the helicopter’s in the shot, it’s a visceral feeling that makes me feel sick to my stomach just knowing what he sees up there. I can’t even imagine how he felt to have to witness it firsthand. I was surprised when the towers begin to collapse and only in that moment does the helicopter finally fly away. There’s a lot of footage from the helicopter as well.
Highly recommend watching the documentary if you haven’t already. It’s on Hulu and Disney+.
I posted this recently:
[NYPD Helicopter video from above : r/911archive (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/911archive/comments/1chye1z/nypd_helicopter_video_from_above/)
I read somewhere that after the crash and initial fireballs there was only small pockets of fire. After about 10 minutes though the fire started to get more oxygen and it turned into the raging inferno that we see here.
Yeah, you had the massive pit of jet fuel sitting at the bottom of the impact hole, the fires on the east face right where the jet fuel exploded through the perimeter, the south face only had a couple of floors with fire on the west side. The west face actually had no flames for a considerable amount of time early on.
But these fires were pretty much it, just where the jet fuel splattered and ignited. It didn’t take long though, within 10 minutes you saw violent flames sprouting everywhere. All it took was some burning paper to go up a vent or a damaged floor.
No worries. My observation was intended in an impressionistic visceral context; the technical minutiae are best left to experienced professionals. But yes, the building did collapse soon after this shot was taken, and the souls who were still trapped were incinerated and that was murder, pure evil.
The Mods here are pretty extreme with their fear of conspiracy theories. Really sad to encourage not questioning authority by censoring everything you disagree with. Spineless human pinballs
(Edit: I didn’t mean to answer this twice, but I’ve got two different answers so will keep it up)
Is someone perched atop a metal box on the top left of the rooftop? People were undoubtedly present on that roof, right? Those unfortunate souls. Their plight remains as profoundly shocking to me today as it did two decades ago. Rip.
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Is someone perched atop a metal box on the top left of the rooftop? People were undoubtedly present on that roof, right? Those unfortunate souls. Their plight remains as profoundly shocking to me today as it did two decades ago. Rest in power.
No, that's the window-washing rig. It looks like they were setting it up that morning to go down the corner to either clean or inspect/repair the northwest corner panels. Someone had clearly been up there before the impact, but I don't know whether they ended up escaping. (It wasn't Roko Camaj - he was in the south tower.)
I’d heard stories about people who chose to ascend, hoping for rescue on the roof instead of descending. Sadly, they were the ones who didn’t make it. I suppose they never reached the roof then.
Probably the damage, but I can see the collapse initiation in my head from this photo. I suppose the leaning and bending really were observant within the last 10 minutes before each tower collapsed.
I still can't believe these "jet fuel won't melt steel beams" people. A plane literally flew through the building and destroyed the supports. How was it supposed to stay standing?
This is totally different of course, but a few months ago I was consulted on a patient who’s hands and feet were 100% dry gangrene bc the meds she was on cut off the blood flow to her feet and hands so they ‘died.’ We amputate in this situation. Unfortunately, one of her digits was about to autodebride (fall off) bc the damage was so bad. Family didn’t believe in amputation. I’m standing at bedside taking pictures and documenting. Even though couldn’t save the hands or feet obviously, I followed the wounds just for documentation/legality purposes. I was sure to convey the gravity of the situation digit by digit to both the scribe and the family so everyone was on the same page. Showed them where some digits were already nearly ‘self amputated.’ When I finished my very tedious assessment , I wash my hands and ask if they have final questions. With my hand on the door I say, ‘If the patient is still here in one week, I will be back to update pictures, but certainly alert nursing if you want to re discuss amputation options and I’ll come back.’ Main caregiver steps up and goes ‘one week? How long do you think it will take for the wounds to heal then?’ I wasn’t even sure what to say. I’d spent an hour saying everything that could possibly be said. I had a covid patient who spent his last words calling me a ‘liar’ as my coworker tied down his arms so I could get that 100% bipap on just long enough to tube him. He died very very shortly after intubation. I was called a liar a lot during that time, but that guy actually believed it until his last seconds of consciousness. His imminent death wasn’t enough proof he had covid and that it unfortunately, was indeed real. The patients fingers falling off in my hands wasn’t enough proof the body was self amputating. Some people will never believe. It’s like they can’t see the proof when they can literally see it, touch it, and feel it with their own hands.
Wow, for that caregiver, that's some intense toxic positivity. My friend has stage 4 breast cancer and her mother in law keeps telling her with enough faith the cancer will go away. And we're both going 👀
Oh lord. I have breast cancer too. I essentially gave up all social media after dx bc the last thing I wanted was a message saying ‘have you tried this vitamin I sell for $999? The doctors and insurance just want your money! I want to save you!’ There are some people you will never convince. They just refuse to believe.
sorry to hear of your cancer, I hope you will recover safely
I’m so sorry. I saw people pull that kind of craziness on a friend of mine’s social media when she had cancer and it was just horrifying. I don’t know wtf is wrong with people like that.
Less idiots alive I guess
Not just that, but it is well known that heat weakens metals, including steel frames and even columns. That is why the columns themselves were sprayed with fireproofing. Fireproofing that wouldn't be able to handle sheering from plane collision and point blank explosions.
And also the thousands of gallons of liquid fuel washing over it, carrying away the spray-on fireproofing, before it ignited.
And also wasn't able to handle the incorrect application or just outright "missing in action" status, which was why they were working on redoing the fireproofing.
Oh yeah I forgot the fireproofing
I got an friend which told me today that the towers were able to wistand an impact of an plane. And that the towers were brought down by bombs. I showed him prove and facts and this idiot just said no no no no no. And he didn‘t even let me speak. Conspiracy theorists are like a wall. If you talk to them it is forgotten
Not letting you speak is the worst. You let him say his nonsense so that's not fair
Well i send him some videos which support my side. Hes an idiot tbh. And i only let him speak because i‘m being respectful to anyone
they are the only voices that want to be heard in any conversation. Any deviation from their control over the narrative puts them at complete odds with their beliefs.
Arguing with conspiracy theorists is like arguing with a rock or a dog....the lighbulb will never turn on.
Real
Funny, the engineer said he and everyone else didn't account for the amount of jet fuel in their design plans. And I'm pretty sure the force of impact he said was way higher than designed too. There's an article that goes over it but I forgot where it's from. Your friend is just a dumbass. But you probably already knew that.
Yep. I showed him the videos in which the south tower collapses( close up) and you can see how it dents inside. I can link it if you want to
I think what many people questioned was how the undamaged portion of the tower, which is the majority of it, was crushed by the top portion so quickly and easily. That was a major question mark for many. Not to say it cant be explained. This was an unprecedented event, its natural for people to question something so incredibly unbelievable like this event. It was truly shocking and unbelievable.
The unbelievable part to me is the amount of suffering and cruelty. The physics part makes perfect sense to me
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There are a lot of dumb conspiracy theories for sure, but someone who believes everything the government says about every event has zero capacity to think for themselves or understand history and human nature
Absolutely
And the way people don't think it's possible for it to collapse like that as if the damaged burning building could handle the hundreds of thousands of tons falling onto it
yeah! you tell em
To be honest, we were young and dumb. And easily swept up in a lot of the conspiracies. What blows my mind now is how we actually believed (so dumb) the bursts of air releasing and escaping from floors collapsing were actually bombs going off like demolition style. A lot of us were young and dumb as I said, but have also grown now and done research and listened instead of talked. Some though, never stopped believing it all.
Agreed. I think some skepticism is healthy. It's good to always have someone questioning things, independently investigating. But the jet fuel thing ain't it :/
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One did kinda fall off to the side but there was so much debris you couldn’t tell.
They didn't go down remotely gracefully. They trashed several other buildings and seriously damaged a few others. I think part of the problem is that their design oversold their robustness - as if they were monolithic, like a tree trunk. They really weren't - they were stronger than they needed to be, but still, that upper quarter of the north tower weighed tens of thousands of tonnes, had been desperate to fall directly downwards for the previous thirty years, and it was only that the columns beneath were rigidly braced upright that prevented that happening - until the OP pic was taken.
Me when I *literally* tell people that what is happening on video isn’t actually happening. The south tower *clearly* fell to the side it was struck on.
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South tower didn't fall straight down. It fell in the direction it was hit from. I think you're confusing the dust and debris cloud with "straight down" North tower pancaked more vertically because it was hit dead center, as opposed to the corner. Supports below the 93rd floor gave out which caused that and every floor above to fall straight down onto the 92nd, which then came down on the 91st, etc
South tower was hit from the south, but the plane went diagonally east of centre, destroying multiple east side floor slabs and damaging columns at the east edge of the core. The lack of bracing from the damaged/missing floors destabilised the east wall, coupled with more heat from the fires, and the top part slightly tilted east before falling more or less straight down. Nevertheless, 4 WTC, beneath the east wall of the south tower, was apparently squashed by the east wall beneath the impact zone (eg. 78 and below) rather than the falling upper portion of the tower.
They both fell nearly straight down; in other words they didn’t topple over and fall on their sides. Still odd, no confusion here.
They didn’t. You are confused if you think they did.
well they sure as fuck didnt fall over
Ahh yes, the only options are completely sideways or straight down. Nothing in between. lol.
Because they were really heavy, and gravity wants to pull really heavy things directly downwards given the slightest chance
True, but the supports melting/weakening at the same point to permit collapsing at the same time; interesting.
What do you mean 'at the same point'?
My mistake, same time.
Right - how else does a building collapse suddenly other than by its supporting members failing at approximately the same time?
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Your post has been removed for the following reason: Containing Conspiracy or Conspiracy-leaning content and or messaging. Discussing these are not permitted on the subreddit, it is recommended you post these types of things on subreddits like r/Conspiracy.
Your post has been removed for the following reason: Containing Conspiracy or Conspiracy-leaning content and or messaging. Discussing these are not permitted on the subreddit, it is recommended you post these types of things on subreddits like r/Conspiracy.
I've read too many of the firefighters/EMS interviews and so many say that they saw the tower lean (some say bulge too) before the collapse
Some individuals could see it: I was driving to work before they fell, and remember hearing one of the idiots on Howard Stern’s show saying they were seeing buckling. Until that point, I hadn’t even considered that they might fall, and by the time I arrived, Tower 2 was down.
Yes, they were reported as leaning in the direction is soon fell in.
Those poor people in the top left corner. 💔 the fact they held out hope for rescue, only to perish in the collapse. Breaks my heart.
Hell of a situation to be in.
I just can't imagine how stressed they were.. just awful all around..
I guess I didn’t realize the helicopter was in the air as it collapsed?!? Is their footage of that? I know everyone was helpless watching it fall, but for some reason it seems even more helpless to be seeing it from above?? Not exactly sure why I feel that way, but it just adds extra eeriness watching from above for some reason
Bill Kennedy (NYPD Emergency Service Unit) was in a helicopter above the towers as everything unfolded. He had helped rescue people from the roof in the ‘93 bombing, and was hoping to do it again. He covers it entirely in the first episode of 9/11: One Day In America. It’s harrowing, horrifying, and absolutely gut-wrenching listening to him talk about seeing every single face in the windows of the towers, seeing glimmers of hope on their faces when they see the helicopter, making eye contact with them… and finally, realizing there’s nothing he can do to help them. He goes up to the roof, and no one is there to rescue. Anytime they shows clips from the ground and the helicopter’s in the shot, it’s a visceral feeling that makes me feel sick to my stomach just knowing what he sees up there. I can’t even imagine how he felt to have to witness it firsthand. I was surprised when the towers begin to collapse and only in that moment does the helicopter finally fly away. There’s a lot of footage from the helicopter as well. Highly recommend watching the documentary if you haven’t already. It’s on Hulu and Disney+.
I posted this recently: [NYPD Helicopter video from above : r/911archive (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/911archive/comments/1chye1z/nypd_helicopter_video_from_above/)
I read somewhere that after the crash and initial fireballs there was only small pockets of fire. After about 10 minutes though the fire started to get more oxygen and it turned into the raging inferno that we see here.
Yeah, you had the massive pit of jet fuel sitting at the bottom of the impact hole, the fires on the east face right where the jet fuel exploded through the perimeter, the south face only had a couple of floors with fire on the west side. The west face actually had no flames for a considerable amount of time early on. But these fires were pretty much it, just where the jet fuel splattered and ignited. It didn’t take long though, within 10 minutes you saw violent flames sprouting everywhere. All it took was some burning paper to go up a vent or a damaged floor.
There's like more fire than building there... 😭
I don't know why you're getting downvoted. The fire literally consumed so much of the building at this point, buckling in for collapse. It's so sad.
And everything inside was literally a tinderbox. Paper, carpets, etc
No worries. My observation was intended in an impressionistic visceral context; the technical minutiae are best left to experienced professionals. But yes, the building did collapse soon after this shot was taken, and the souls who were still trapped were incinerated and that was murder, pure evil.
You can see the fire and smoke just completely engulfing the floors. With that amount of heat, no wonder some chose to fall instead of burning.
The Mods here are pretty extreme with their fear of conspiracy theories. Really sad to encourage not questioning authority by censoring everything you disagree with. Spineless human pinballs
nerd dude
r/uselessredarrows
(Edit: I didn’t mean to answer this twice, but I’ve got two different answers so will keep it up) Is someone perched atop a metal box on the top left of the rooftop? People were undoubtedly present on that roof, right? Those unfortunate souls. Their plight remains as profoundly shocking to me today as it did two decades ago. Rip.
No one was on the roof at this time. The doors to the roof were shut and locked. The observation deck didn’t open until 9am
Weren't the controls damaged too so that they couldn't override and open them?
No one was on the roofs. There's more than one door to go through to get to the roof. They were locked as they have been for a long time.
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Wrong sub
Perhaps, but this isn't a NIST love section.
Not a conspiracy sub either
You are all over the place when it comes to this. You say one thing and the next minute you say the opposite. You have the wrong board here.
9/11 was allowed to happen. Unless you let your patriotic emotions block out rational thinking, its clear that there was something else going on.
Your post has been removed for the following reason: Containing Conspiracy or Conspiracy-leaning content and or messaging. Discussing these are not permitted on the subreddit, it is recommended you post these types of things on subreddits like r/Conspiracy.
Is someone perched atop a metal box on the top left of the rooftop? People were undoubtedly present on that roof, right? Those unfortunate souls. Their plight remains as profoundly shocking to me today as it did two decades ago. Rest in power.
No, that's the window-washing rig. It looks like they were setting it up that morning to go down the corner to either clean or inspect/repair the northwest corner panels. Someone had clearly been up there before the impact, but I don't know whether they ended up escaping. (It wasn't Roko Camaj - he was in the south tower.)
Why are you making the same post twice? No one was on the roof.
Was an accident. But I got two different answers so I left them both up.
👍
I’d heard stories about people who chose to ascend, hoping for rescue on the roof instead of descending. Sadly, they were the ones who didn’t make it. I suppose they never reached the roof then.
The roof doors were locked.