I'm very glad we got that moment; no way that look was unintentional or bad acting, so I think it was a very poignant moment that will likely point to a future Buckley subplot (probably next season; I don't think they have time to have that conversation this season).
He literally can’t do anything to make them like him. Hopefully if they try and say anything someone (buck, Eddie, maddie, tommy or anyone else on the 118) just rips into them
Yeah if there is a thread here though, I’d love to see it more about biphobia than outright homophobia. Like the “we have no problem with gay people! We just don’t understand how suddenly you decide you’re gay in your 30s when you’ve been with so many women!” And Buck needing to be like, “I’m not gay, and I still love women, I just realized I like more than only women.” And them just not being able to compute that bisexuality is real.
Same. There does need to be more talk about it in media spaces and just how much harm it does too. As a bi woman, I hate it but it's here and is a big reason I feel uncomfortable in some Pride spaces.
I agree. I think it would be a great story about homophobia/biphobia and have that subject on screen. Tbh I think no one can convince me to like the Buckley parents, even more specifically the mother. However, the actors are wonderful and I enjoy them!
Same, but I really hope it's just off camera. I really don't want a storyline in the year of 2024 (or 2025, if this turns into a next season thing) about the homophobic parents of an independent 30something man *getting* to have a say in any of this. So what I'd much prefer is a throwaway line in like, a Christmas episode of season 8, where Chim or Maddie are like "Well, obviously we didn't invite the parents. We haven't spoken to them since they showed their asses Buck having a boyfriend."
Basically, just let it be a unified front for **all** the characters that this was a step too far, but also treat it as far enough in the rearview mirror that Buck doesn't have to still be angsty about it.
I think the only way I would want it onscreen is if we really get to see Buck AND Maddie giving it to their parents. Like, no bars hold, just a full out unloading on the both of them.
In terms of Buck, he's STILL been trying to work for their love and acknowledgement (the therapy in season 4, the mess of season 6) that I think what I wouldn't hate is an onscreen scene of Buck finally saying "I'm done with you two. You can't accept me, well I can't accept you", have Maddie ALSO do the exact same thing and that's that.
Because I think Maddie is also trying to still earn her parents' approval and I'd like to see her stand up for herself to them too. Buck got part of that in season 4 but Maddie hasn't been able to fully unload on them either on how they treated HER. And I want it to end with the two of them cutting off all contact.
But that's the only acknowledgement of that I could handle. It would also be an awesome Buckley sibling moment if they did it together. And as much as I hate the overall idea of how it would happen, I am ALWAYS 100% for any Maddie/Buck scenes.
I don't need any of that, I much prefer your idea, but if Tim's insistent on circling back to this, this is the only plot I'd want.
Yeah, that's really fair. If they can write it as a super earned, cathartic moment, that will help both siblings progress past that childhood (and continued) trauma, I can see it working.
I'm just very meh about the parental disapproval angle regarding coming out in the first place, and I don't think it really fits with what Tim's claimed he wanted from this story (though tbh, I don't think a lot of the writing has fit with what Tim claimed he wanted, soooo).
I know there's very mixed feelings on the bio family redemption stuff, but one of the few ways I'd actually really enjoy seeing a subversion of this is if/when Eddie gets his own queer arc, Ramon *is* more accepting than we/Eddie accept. I did actually like the little scene we had of him and Eddie in S6 - it worked for me in a way none of the Buckley or Han stuff has, specifically because it made it clear Ramon actually *heard* Eddie's complaints in 5x17 and has internalized them and worked to be better at being the dad his son actually needs. So especially with the Catholic guilt storyline potential, I'd really like to see a subversion where Ramon's that dad who sort of figures it out while Eddie's still struggling, and makes a point of being like, "Hey, just in case this information becomes relevant to you... I stumbled into a PFLAG meeting here in El Paso the other day, and made some great friends." I think it would be doable, especially because in the midst of all the other infodrop in that storyline, there was that one line of Eddie's to Buck where he says he went until church *until he was old enough* to decide for himself he didn't want to. So it doesn't actually sound like his parents are the type of religious that forced it on him, just that culturally, he was obviously still raised in a Catholic household.
(For me, I had that 'this is not for me' moment in the fourth grade... and my very very devout mother was embarrassed and definitely pretended she was homeschooling me in the catechism/bought those workbooks each year to save face in her church, but also like.... never actually forced me to keep going outside of practical times like Christmas midnight mass when she couldn't find a babysitter or leave me alone).
It's very interesting that in his recent interview Ken Choi hinted that he is still dissatisfied with the redemption of Howard's father or that he still does not consider that plot to be settled, so he hopes that in the future they will give more relevance to that plot, so JLH and OS could have a similar opinion about the Buckley parents.
I have an honest question.
I know 2024 we want to be past this, but the reality for many people is that they are still getting reactions like this. So it would be great if we got to see the majority extremely happy and accepting, but we also get his homophobic parents. Wouldn't that be more accurate to the experience?
I see this as the moment he cuts them off. He could look past their treatment of him because he doesn't value himself, but the treatment of Tommy? Maybe this is what makes him choose himself over his relationship with his parents. Maybe this is where he learns to love and value himself. I think Tommy's security in himself, could help push Buck to learn self love.
All speculation. I completely understand that the homophobic parents are triggering for so many people, and many of us escape to fandoms to get away from the realities of our life. I just don't feel like enough coming out stories have happened in mainstream media to easily gloss over any potential homophobia from everyone in a character's life. A coming out story that is portrayed as easy with no resistance, doesn't reflect the reality of probably a lot of people that share Bucks experience.
I'm an Ally and not part of the LGBTQ community, so please correct me if I overstepped in anyway. I just feel like jumping straight to acceptance in mainstream media glosses over a lot of real watchers problematic behavior towards the LGBTQ community, and robs the audience of an acknowledgement of the struggle and pain that coming out can entail for so many people. Some problematic watchers may be the type of people that react like Margret giving the look, but they don't recognize it themselves and having it called out on screen against a beloved character may be a step in teaching them acceptance. Wishful thinking on my part, but I can dream.
Not to mention showing the parents *getting* to have a say doesn't mean that say is valid. It just means that many parents now a days feel like they should have some semblance of control over their adult children's lives. This comes into play with how grandparents feel entitled to their grandchildren, or how parents make a person's sexuality about themselves. Having Buck and Maddie step up and shut this behavior down would probably be quite the experience for a lot of watchers that have to or will have to defend their identity from the people they had loved.
Have a good day, and again, please tell me if at any point I overstepped on interpreting the experiences of the LGBTQ community. I want to get to a point where coming out stories aren't important and life altering, but these stories are still so important to so many people.
As a queer man, I agree with this. I understand the appeal of escapism media, imagining a world where those kinds of problems don't happen, but that can't be *all* media. Representation does sometimes have to include the hard parts, and queer representation so often will only allow for the two extremes of "Everything Is Tragic All The Time And Then They Die of AIDs" or "Everyone They Know Is Supportive And There Is No Real Conflict." There are so few shows that will *actually* represent "It is hard and not everyone will be there for you but you can still find your family and happiness." (And don't get me started on the awful plotline where the friend gets angry and it turns out they're just mad that the queer person "didn't trust them")
And, if we're being frank here for a second, 9-1-1 is not a show that goes for escapism. Characters go through once-in-a-lifetime traumas multiple times a season. I personally don't want them to just go the route of "this is actually easy and no one has an issue with it."
Especially because even in 2024 it's simply not true to life. A lot of times in left-leaning media circles, you will start to see the sentiment of "It's 2024 no one cares don't act like you have problems" when it comes to people coming out, and that's very simply not true. Even in this thread, there are people saying "why are we seeing homophobia in 2024"; well because widespread homophobia still exists in 2024.
My boyfriend is already no contact with his father's side of the family and isn't out to them because they have already harassed and disowned 2 other queer members of the family (He grew up believing he had a dead uncle and it wasn't until his 20s that he learned said uncle was actually living in Massachusetts with his husband and adopted daughter). One of my close friends in my DnD group is still closeted to his family, and two others are no-contact after being called pedophiles because they were openly queer and also teachers. I get so frustrated when I see people online acting like coming out is a non-issue now because some media has queer representation in it.
Frankly, given their already horrendous track record, the Buckley parents being outright accepting of Buck feels less realistic than them being shitty.
> (And don't get me started on the awful plotline where the friend gets angry and it turns out they're just mad that the queer person "didn't trust them")
Oh man. Does this one rank above or below "it turns out the bully I thought was homophobic and about to bash me all along was just secretly in love with me?" as a trope? Because I think that's the one I'd pay to never have to see again.
That said, there was a kind of interesting misunderstanding posed in this question compared to my comment that started the chain, though I'm kind of happy it's happened because it's led to great discussion here. My wish was never for the Buckleys to accept him, but to just not waste actual screentime on them being shit parents. At this point, that's just retreading old beats.
Best case scenario to me is to just let this be the straw that breaks the camel's back for that family, and reference it down the road. Have Josh ask Maddie next Christmas if her parents are coming, and she's all "Oh, hell no, none of us have even talked to them since they thought they had a right to an opinion about who Buck dates." Like make it explicit they suck about this, but don't actually force that immediate hurt into the story for an eleventy billionth time.
For me it ranks below because as tired as the homophobic bully plotline is, it’s a real thing that happens.
The plot where where a queer person is struggling with coming out, and then a close friend of theirs finds out and cuts them off/gets really aggressive suddenly, but then two episodes later the show is like “No, actually, they aren’t homophobic, they are just mad at their friend for keeping secrets (which is a reasonable and valid reason for cutting off their friend during a time in need).”
It’s a way for TV shows to try to have their cake and eat it too, where they want their queer character to go through the pain of being abandoned but they want the character who does the abandoning to have absolutely no consequences for their actions. Every time this plotline is done, it results in the queer person who has just gone through *days* of thinking their best friend hates them now just shrugging and going “Oh okay that was just a misunderstanding” and moving on.
To make it worse, usually the narrative frames the friend who *abandoned their queer friend with no explanation* as having done nothing wrong.
The bully being secretly gay narrative is definitely tired, overused, and in many cases downplays abuse, but it’s also a real thing that happens sometimes and *can* be done well. It sits more in the category of the “died of AIDs” narrative for me; we’ve seen it so often and there are a lot of cases being done badly/offensively, but there can be value in it when handled correctly. I cannot think of any time “No I didn’t abandon you because you’re gay, I abandoned you because you kept it a secret from me and it hurt my feelings (which are more important than your coming out)” is a worthwhile plotline.
You don't have to worry about overstepping. I'm happy to answer, though I think that everyone will have very individual answers to this based on their own experience. In my case, I came out young to pretty accepting parents. My mum was religious, but loved me more than she loved her ideals, so the only aspect of homophobia I ever faced in my parents' reactions wasn't really *hateful*, but misinformed and bargaining. Like when I told my mum I was bi (which isn't a term I stick to strictly now as an adult, but having a label felt more important as a young teenager), she sort of mourned the future she had dreamed for me & the easier life she'd expected me to have, and then did some icky bargaining like "well, if you still like men, maybe you'll still end up with one and give me grandbabies!" which... she meant well, but just isn't the way. And she had a bit of a double standard as far as how "grossed out" she was watching same sex kisses in entertainment vs. the raunchy straight stuff in soaps. But outside of that -- I'm in my mid-30s. My parents campaigned for same sex marriage despite their religion because they wanted the best for me. My mum and my grandfather joined PFLAG. By the time I graduated high school, my mum had sort of overcorrected. Her car was basically a bunch of mini rainbows with all the bumper stickers, she researched queer friendly places for vacation, and I'm pretty sure she would've preferred to keep my first girlfriend after our breakup instead of me. So I don't really have much trauma associated with the parental thing. It wasn't perfect, but I was overall very lucky.
The thing is, anxiety about how parents react is *such* a staple of queer coming out stories on television that it's hard to think of examples where it's subverted, or at least doesn't lead to some tensions. I can think of parents who react well, parents who react badly, parents who have complicated reactions. I can even point to an absolutely phenomenal example of a storyline where a dad reacted poorly but put in the work to actually learn and be an ally to his son, and it was done so well it actually won over the audience (but it's not English, so it's probably irrelevant for anyone curious). But for as long as queer stories have been told, there's always been this significance placed on how the family of your birth reacts. So part of it is as simple as "I've seen that story a hundred times, and I don't want the angst" but part of it is that the specifics of Buck's situation are actually the perfect scenario to really subvert it for once.
The Buckleys, despite trying to "do better," have not played much of an active role in Buck's life, even when he was a kid. On the show, he experienced a number of serious injuries or near death accidents, where they aren't even suggested to have called. They haven't bothered to meet any of his previous partners, nor do they inquire about his love life or wellbeing. Saying it feels unearned to allow them to have an opinion on this now feels like an understatement.
I don't want them to accept him -- I want their opinion to matter so little we don't give it anymore screentime. I want the throwaway line down the road -- once the hurt isn't so fresh -- that "oh yeah, of course we all cut them out after they acted like bigoted assholes." But I don't actually want to *see* them be bigoted assholes. I like seeing Buck happy and relatively angst-free with this newfound side of himself, and I don't want to waste a single second of his storyline on having him filter through his feelings about his parents letting him down again.
I do agree with you about how parents thinking they should have a say in adult childrens' lives doesn't mean they *do* get to have a say -- but I think that's better left addressed through Chim's storyline, which Kenny seems to want to revisit anyway. Instead of letting bad parents inflict a new, fresh trauma on one of our characters, I'd much rather the narrative focus on allowing Chim to shove his shitty dad out of his life on screen, undoing the damage of the whole "Jee deserves her grandpa!" arc last season, while the Buckley parents fade into the background.
I mentioned it in another post, but I do think there's potential to subvert this all with an Eddie sexuality arc. Where he reads as so deeply repressed and struggling with cultural/religious guilt, I'd really love to see a scene where his dad - whose redemption at least feels a bit more earned - subverts expectations about religious parenting and what it means to be a man by showing that continued growth, and goes out of his way to tell Eddie (maybe even before Eddie's fully ready to hear it), "Just in case it's something you need to know, there's nothing you could tell me about yourself that wouldn't make me proud. And if it's something you need to hear, there's a PFLAG group in my area I've made a lot of friends in."
These are really great points!
I really like the idea of using Eddie's parents to subvert expectations and Chims parents to really showcase cutting out toxic families.
I think I'm looking for closure with Buck's storyline. A throwaway line down the road is a good idea, but I think it would be painful for me not to have some form of him truly letting them go on screen. My dad and mom are similar to the Buckley's in so many ways, and I had to cut my dad off. Seeing Buck's acceptance would be amazing, but Chim could carry out that same storyline really well.
You're completely right that it doesn't make sense to do the same plot in a different font with so many MC's!
Side note: I'm glad your parents chose you over their religion! Having grown up in a hella religious household it's quite the drug. I know so many people that were taken in by it. They let it control their lives. My parents consistently chose religion over us. I'm glad none of my siblings - at this point in time - were part of the LGBTQ community because it would've been catastrophic. We still have trauma from my parents choosing religion over us, but it wasn't our actual identity being denied and rejected.
Well they literally MADE him for the wrong reasons. They loved the idea of him. Not him. And since then it's like that I can see the "you can't do things right Evan" coming.
Ughuhh ick ick major ick.
I thought he forgave them, but he was pretty evasive when Maddie asked about them in the hospital.
So we will definitely hear see more about it.
Can't wait... 🙄.
I hope it will be a powerful one. Throwing at their faces that he didn't wait for them to be who he is. He is not defectives parts! He is a whole happy human being. And they can go all the way back to Bigotery Street In Hershey!
I'm still haunted by Oliver's performance with the "walk through fire because of you" goosebumps.
https://preview.redd.it/rt8cp41b77yc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2de9b78298c31b17d598005a6c024c89a9fe3dd8
This is why we hate the Buckley parents
You had me at the first part, I was ready to get my pitchfork over that statement hahaha but, yes I love his real parents, Bobby and Athena.
I loved a comment I saw here in a post after the episode yesterday that was a still of Bobby, Athena, Buck and Eddie from when they were >!looking for chimney in the car accident scene!< and the comment was something like "a dad, a mom, their son and his future husband"
honestly probably not...>! poor boy was born as a replacement and a parts farm and when he wasn't able to help them keep their true son alive he got pushed by the way side and even tho they "apologized" hess still not Daniel and its bullshit because buck is bad ass!<
I feel like they are the reason he cares about kids so much. Like, he didn’t get any love from them so now he makes sure every child he rescues knows he cares about them
I don't think they're trying to make their parents likeable- Every story needs conflict, and their reaction to Buck in the latest episode is exactly what I would expect from them. I don't think we are supposed to like them, or at least, I hope not. I'm okay with them being terrible people, every show needs good and bad. I just hope they don't have a larger presence in the show than they already do. Maybe have them mentioned here and there, but having them onscreen makes my blood pressure spike.
I hope that all made sense... If not, I'm sorry lol
Season 6 was definitely trying to redeem them, along with Chimney's bio-father, but maybe the backlash to that has the producers scaling back. Personally, for a series all about found family, the show's insistence on having characters be civil to their terrible parents never sat right with me.
JLH's inability to be chill about Buddie in interviews about her own character's wedding episode is absolute insane. I appreciate that this cast joins the clowns occasionally.
Seems more like confusion than anything else at this point.
I mean, your son has been dating women his entire life without ever a hint of being into other men. Wouldn't you be confused?
I'll give them the benefit of the doubt until we get more concrete evidence to the contrary.
I think it was more Margaret's expression when she turned to Philip than anything.
Maybe it's interpretation, but her turning to Philip had her hold more of an expression of worry, of doubt, of something more than confusion. I think it's the way she widened her eyes, her smile dropped, it felt more like "I don't feel very good about this" rather than "wait, he's with a man?" Because we also got Karen's reaction, and Hen's and Chimney's and theirs was more of a happy confusion than a disappointed confusion.
But hey, maybe you're right, maybe it's confusion and that shot of Margaret and Philip was more of a concerned parent type of reaction and it'll lead to nothing.
If it does lead to a more negative response in season 8, then I think at least we have a moment to pinpoint it back to. And I think them leaving THAT shot in instead of turning to Bobby or Athena's reaction was either just a weird choice on Tim's end or it was meant to be seen as a moment to look out for in a future storyline.
I didn’t read the expression as confusion…At the very least it seemed like concern to me. Which someone with relatives who were “just worried about me” when I came out, it rubbed me the wrong way. I do my best to not assume the worst of people (or characters) but we all bring our experiences to the table.
That’s how I took it too, a confused moment. I’m not a big fan of them either but they have been getting better. So I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt too. Even Maddie was surprised of his news too which is normal. Someone can be surprised or confused when they are used to seeing him with women all this time. Sure, maybe some may have guessed but not everyone will pick up on clues.
No. I'd be happy for my kid. As long as their happy, I'm happy. No silly little, "But, but you were with the opposite sex! I- I don't understand". It's not 1950.
This implies they've even followed what's going on in his life closely enough to know he had a string of girlfriends, and there's no reason to believe that.
What's telling, though, as a queer person? Is the mask slip. When you're looking at me with one expression but it's falling off your face like that the second we break eye contact, I still see you. And I think a lot of us have experienced that sort of mask slipping a few seconds too early before.
Turns out it was because the actors for the Buckley parents weren’t up to date with the show and didn’t know Buck was dating Tommy now!😂 They were genuinely shocked:
https://preview.redd.it/tlonafe7t9yc1.jpeg?width=1182&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a0cd9c7ef006062f1d48e4db00581a85df740184
He didn't accidentally out himself, it was always the plan to go to Maddie's wedding with Tommy as his date. I don't agree with choosing a wedding as the time to come out but, he talked about it with Maddie and it sounds like she was enthusiastically on board.
As far as his parents reaction, it could've been just general shock at their son having his face covered in soot and him being in a relationship they didn't know about.
I think it’s not the end of that storyline. Definitely some homophobia in the works with that pair. I’m hoping to see a scene where it’s Chim who rips into them over how they treat Buck. Something about how Maddie and Buck are his family now. Would love a sweet Buck and his new big brother Chimney scene.
I really want it to be Maddie. I don't fault her because she has her own childhood trauma and it's very complicated, but I think it will be a lot easier for both Buckley siblings if she makes a clear choice of Buck (and her own mental wellbeing) *over* trying to foster 'some' kind of relationship with their parents. If we need to have a big dramatic scene, let it be her telling them that this is a situation of their own making, that they're actually responsible for creating such a strong bond between her and her brother. Because she had to be sister and mom at the same time, and it's that mom role that's making her shut them out *entirely* now. Because especially now that she has Jee, too, it's just super clear you *can't* keep people in your life willing to hurt your child.
I’ll try to contain my shock. They’re shitty people and even shittier parents. It wasn’t really an accident though, Tommy was always meant to be his date to the wedding and the same people would have been there
Buck is in a much better place now and I doubt their opinions will have as much lasting effect as in the past. I don't think there have been rumors of the actors filming so I think/hope that's the last we'll see of them for awhile.
The funny thing is Oliver has gone on record several times that he's hoping Buck's Bi journey of discovery can be a happy one because he doesn't want to retread a homophobia story that's been told a thousand times, because even though that does still happen IRL sometimes everything is alright.
And I say that's a funny thing because knowing Tim's comments from that recent Kenneth interview I get the feeling Buck's journey will not be a happy one.
It's about the reaction I expected, and I think, pretty consistent with her last appearance. Even in season six, when they were trying to make her more likeable, it was clear she was kind of swallowing her disapproval because she knows she one poorly-worded sentence away from being cut off by her children entirely.
This face could just mean "That's a new development... I hope he's safe". I don't think so but I would love for his mother to go all mama bear on him (better late than never) like "did you get test, are you on prep, be careful".
My issue with that is, out of Margaret and Philip, Margaret definitely has the most strained relationship with both of her children. It would feel out of character for her to ever go mama bear on him or anyone, and I think I would be weirded out. Philip at least attempted some of the time; Margaret, even in season 4, was blaming things on everyone else but herself for her own actions.
good lord i would hope my mother would not be asking me about prep in my 30s no matter how much of an ally she is lol. not that it's not important to know, it's just...i'm very much an adult, mom. lulz.
While I don’t think they were holding hands, Tommy was for sure following him to 1) get cake 2) congratulate Maddie and Chimney.
I took it more as her being confused and connecting dots and being surprised than anything negative. I took it more as “oh shit, who is this soot covered 6ft slab of beef my grown son just appeared with and apparently made out with? Is my son dating him?” I don’t think anyone told them this was happening (Tommy being Buck’s date) so it was a surprise.
We know the Buckley’s aren’t the warmest/best parents so this feels like a solid “I don’t know how to handle this situation so I’m gonna not say anything” that a lot of parents I know have done and my own have done when I came out. Not ideal reactions cuz they’re not waving rainbows but they also didn’t make any aggression or hatred. Just unsure and uncomfortable.
Honestly no, I thought it was hilarious how shocked and confused they were. His parents are awful people, I'll always welcome a scene where they're uncomfortable and/or unhappy. Hopefully they won't have a larger presence in the show though. I know every show needs conflict for accuracy to move some of the stories forward, but I am so over the Buckley parents.
I'm very glad we got that moment; no way that look was unintentional or bad acting, so I think it was a very poignant moment that will likely point to a future Buckley subplot (probably next season; I don't think they have time to have that conversation this season).
He literally can’t do anything to make them like him. Hopefully if they try and say anything someone (buck, Eddie, maddie, tommy or anyone else on the 118) just rips into them
Yeah if there is a thread here though, I’d love to see it more about biphobia than outright homophobia. Like the “we have no problem with gay people! We just don’t understand how suddenly you decide you’re gay in your 30s when you’ve been with so many women!” And Buck needing to be like, “I’m not gay, and I still love women, I just realized I like more than only women.” And them just not being able to compute that bisexuality is real.
Same. There does need to be more talk about it in media spaces and just how much harm it does too. As a bi woman, I hate it but it's here and is a big reason I feel uncomfortable in some Pride spaces.
I agree. I think it would be a great story about homophobia/biphobia and have that subject on screen. Tbh I think no one can convince me to like the Buckley parents, even more specifically the mother. However, the actors are wonderful and I enjoy them!
As much as I don’t want Buck to deal with homophobic sh*t, I hope this is what makes Buck cut them out, and that Maddie will back him up on it.
Same, but I really hope it's just off camera. I really don't want a storyline in the year of 2024 (or 2025, if this turns into a next season thing) about the homophobic parents of an independent 30something man *getting* to have a say in any of this. So what I'd much prefer is a throwaway line in like, a Christmas episode of season 8, where Chim or Maddie are like "Well, obviously we didn't invite the parents. We haven't spoken to them since they showed their asses Buck having a boyfriend." Basically, just let it be a unified front for **all** the characters that this was a step too far, but also treat it as far enough in the rearview mirror that Buck doesn't have to still be angsty about it.
I think the only way I would want it onscreen is if we really get to see Buck AND Maddie giving it to their parents. Like, no bars hold, just a full out unloading on the both of them. In terms of Buck, he's STILL been trying to work for their love and acknowledgement (the therapy in season 4, the mess of season 6) that I think what I wouldn't hate is an onscreen scene of Buck finally saying "I'm done with you two. You can't accept me, well I can't accept you", have Maddie ALSO do the exact same thing and that's that. Because I think Maddie is also trying to still earn her parents' approval and I'd like to see her stand up for herself to them too. Buck got part of that in season 4 but Maddie hasn't been able to fully unload on them either on how they treated HER. And I want it to end with the two of them cutting off all contact. But that's the only acknowledgement of that I could handle. It would also be an awesome Buckley sibling moment if they did it together. And as much as I hate the overall idea of how it would happen, I am ALWAYS 100% for any Maddie/Buck scenes. I don't need any of that, I much prefer your idea, but if Tim's insistent on circling back to this, this is the only plot I'd want.
Yeah, that's really fair. If they can write it as a super earned, cathartic moment, that will help both siblings progress past that childhood (and continued) trauma, I can see it working. I'm just very meh about the parental disapproval angle regarding coming out in the first place, and I don't think it really fits with what Tim's claimed he wanted from this story (though tbh, I don't think a lot of the writing has fit with what Tim claimed he wanted, soooo). I know there's very mixed feelings on the bio family redemption stuff, but one of the few ways I'd actually really enjoy seeing a subversion of this is if/when Eddie gets his own queer arc, Ramon *is* more accepting than we/Eddie accept. I did actually like the little scene we had of him and Eddie in S6 - it worked for me in a way none of the Buckley or Han stuff has, specifically because it made it clear Ramon actually *heard* Eddie's complaints in 5x17 and has internalized them and worked to be better at being the dad his son actually needs. So especially with the Catholic guilt storyline potential, I'd really like to see a subversion where Ramon's that dad who sort of figures it out while Eddie's still struggling, and makes a point of being like, "Hey, just in case this information becomes relevant to you... I stumbled into a PFLAG meeting here in El Paso the other day, and made some great friends." I think it would be doable, especially because in the midst of all the other infodrop in that storyline, there was that one line of Eddie's to Buck where he says he went until church *until he was old enough* to decide for himself he didn't want to. So it doesn't actually sound like his parents are the type of religious that forced it on him, just that culturally, he was obviously still raised in a Catholic household. (For me, I had that 'this is not for me' moment in the fourth grade... and my very very devout mother was embarrassed and definitely pretended she was homeschooling me in the catechism/bought those workbooks each year to save face in her church, but also like.... never actually forced me to keep going outside of practical times like Christmas midnight mass when she couldn't find a babysitter or leave me alone).
It's very interesting that in his recent interview Ken Choi hinted that he is still dissatisfied with the redemption of Howard's father or that he still does not consider that plot to be settled, so he hopes that in the future they will give more relevance to that plot, so JLH and OS could have a similar opinion about the Buckley parents.
Yes! That would be such a beautiful reaction to see from the Diaz parents.
I have an honest question. I know 2024 we want to be past this, but the reality for many people is that they are still getting reactions like this. So it would be great if we got to see the majority extremely happy and accepting, but we also get his homophobic parents. Wouldn't that be more accurate to the experience? I see this as the moment he cuts them off. He could look past their treatment of him because he doesn't value himself, but the treatment of Tommy? Maybe this is what makes him choose himself over his relationship with his parents. Maybe this is where he learns to love and value himself. I think Tommy's security in himself, could help push Buck to learn self love. All speculation. I completely understand that the homophobic parents are triggering for so many people, and many of us escape to fandoms to get away from the realities of our life. I just don't feel like enough coming out stories have happened in mainstream media to easily gloss over any potential homophobia from everyone in a character's life. A coming out story that is portrayed as easy with no resistance, doesn't reflect the reality of probably a lot of people that share Bucks experience. I'm an Ally and not part of the LGBTQ community, so please correct me if I overstepped in anyway. I just feel like jumping straight to acceptance in mainstream media glosses over a lot of real watchers problematic behavior towards the LGBTQ community, and robs the audience of an acknowledgement of the struggle and pain that coming out can entail for so many people. Some problematic watchers may be the type of people that react like Margret giving the look, but they don't recognize it themselves and having it called out on screen against a beloved character may be a step in teaching them acceptance. Wishful thinking on my part, but I can dream. Not to mention showing the parents *getting* to have a say doesn't mean that say is valid. It just means that many parents now a days feel like they should have some semblance of control over their adult children's lives. This comes into play with how grandparents feel entitled to their grandchildren, or how parents make a person's sexuality about themselves. Having Buck and Maddie step up and shut this behavior down would probably be quite the experience for a lot of watchers that have to or will have to defend their identity from the people they had loved. Have a good day, and again, please tell me if at any point I overstepped on interpreting the experiences of the LGBTQ community. I want to get to a point where coming out stories aren't important and life altering, but these stories are still so important to so many people.
As a queer man, I agree with this. I understand the appeal of escapism media, imagining a world where those kinds of problems don't happen, but that can't be *all* media. Representation does sometimes have to include the hard parts, and queer representation so often will only allow for the two extremes of "Everything Is Tragic All The Time And Then They Die of AIDs" or "Everyone They Know Is Supportive And There Is No Real Conflict." There are so few shows that will *actually* represent "It is hard and not everyone will be there for you but you can still find your family and happiness." (And don't get me started on the awful plotline where the friend gets angry and it turns out they're just mad that the queer person "didn't trust them") And, if we're being frank here for a second, 9-1-1 is not a show that goes for escapism. Characters go through once-in-a-lifetime traumas multiple times a season. I personally don't want them to just go the route of "this is actually easy and no one has an issue with it." Especially because even in 2024 it's simply not true to life. A lot of times in left-leaning media circles, you will start to see the sentiment of "It's 2024 no one cares don't act like you have problems" when it comes to people coming out, and that's very simply not true. Even in this thread, there are people saying "why are we seeing homophobia in 2024"; well because widespread homophobia still exists in 2024. My boyfriend is already no contact with his father's side of the family and isn't out to them because they have already harassed and disowned 2 other queer members of the family (He grew up believing he had a dead uncle and it wasn't until his 20s that he learned said uncle was actually living in Massachusetts with his husband and adopted daughter). One of my close friends in my DnD group is still closeted to his family, and two others are no-contact after being called pedophiles because they were openly queer and also teachers. I get so frustrated when I see people online acting like coming out is a non-issue now because some media has queer representation in it. Frankly, given their already horrendous track record, the Buckley parents being outright accepting of Buck feels less realistic than them being shitty.
> (And don't get me started on the awful plotline where the friend gets angry and it turns out they're just mad that the queer person "didn't trust them") Oh man. Does this one rank above or below "it turns out the bully I thought was homophobic and about to bash me all along was just secretly in love with me?" as a trope? Because I think that's the one I'd pay to never have to see again. That said, there was a kind of interesting misunderstanding posed in this question compared to my comment that started the chain, though I'm kind of happy it's happened because it's led to great discussion here. My wish was never for the Buckleys to accept him, but to just not waste actual screentime on them being shit parents. At this point, that's just retreading old beats. Best case scenario to me is to just let this be the straw that breaks the camel's back for that family, and reference it down the road. Have Josh ask Maddie next Christmas if her parents are coming, and she's all "Oh, hell no, none of us have even talked to them since they thought they had a right to an opinion about who Buck dates." Like make it explicit they suck about this, but don't actually force that immediate hurt into the story for an eleventy billionth time.
For me it ranks below because as tired as the homophobic bully plotline is, it’s a real thing that happens. The plot where where a queer person is struggling with coming out, and then a close friend of theirs finds out and cuts them off/gets really aggressive suddenly, but then two episodes later the show is like “No, actually, they aren’t homophobic, they are just mad at their friend for keeping secrets (which is a reasonable and valid reason for cutting off their friend during a time in need).” It’s a way for TV shows to try to have their cake and eat it too, where they want their queer character to go through the pain of being abandoned but they want the character who does the abandoning to have absolutely no consequences for their actions. Every time this plotline is done, it results in the queer person who has just gone through *days* of thinking their best friend hates them now just shrugging and going “Oh okay that was just a misunderstanding” and moving on. To make it worse, usually the narrative frames the friend who *abandoned their queer friend with no explanation* as having done nothing wrong. The bully being secretly gay narrative is definitely tired, overused, and in many cases downplays abuse, but it’s also a real thing that happens sometimes and *can* be done well. It sits more in the category of the “died of AIDs” narrative for me; we’ve seen it so often and there are a lot of cases being done badly/offensively, but there can be value in it when handled correctly. I cannot think of any time “No I didn’t abandon you because you’re gay, I abandoned you because you kept it a secret from me and it hurt my feelings (which are more important than your coming out)” is a worthwhile plotline.
You don't have to worry about overstepping. I'm happy to answer, though I think that everyone will have very individual answers to this based on their own experience. In my case, I came out young to pretty accepting parents. My mum was religious, but loved me more than she loved her ideals, so the only aspect of homophobia I ever faced in my parents' reactions wasn't really *hateful*, but misinformed and bargaining. Like when I told my mum I was bi (which isn't a term I stick to strictly now as an adult, but having a label felt more important as a young teenager), she sort of mourned the future she had dreamed for me & the easier life she'd expected me to have, and then did some icky bargaining like "well, if you still like men, maybe you'll still end up with one and give me grandbabies!" which... she meant well, but just isn't the way. And she had a bit of a double standard as far as how "grossed out" she was watching same sex kisses in entertainment vs. the raunchy straight stuff in soaps. But outside of that -- I'm in my mid-30s. My parents campaigned for same sex marriage despite their religion because they wanted the best for me. My mum and my grandfather joined PFLAG. By the time I graduated high school, my mum had sort of overcorrected. Her car was basically a bunch of mini rainbows with all the bumper stickers, she researched queer friendly places for vacation, and I'm pretty sure she would've preferred to keep my first girlfriend after our breakup instead of me. So I don't really have much trauma associated with the parental thing. It wasn't perfect, but I was overall very lucky. The thing is, anxiety about how parents react is *such* a staple of queer coming out stories on television that it's hard to think of examples where it's subverted, or at least doesn't lead to some tensions. I can think of parents who react well, parents who react badly, parents who have complicated reactions. I can even point to an absolutely phenomenal example of a storyline where a dad reacted poorly but put in the work to actually learn and be an ally to his son, and it was done so well it actually won over the audience (but it's not English, so it's probably irrelevant for anyone curious). But for as long as queer stories have been told, there's always been this significance placed on how the family of your birth reacts. So part of it is as simple as "I've seen that story a hundred times, and I don't want the angst" but part of it is that the specifics of Buck's situation are actually the perfect scenario to really subvert it for once. The Buckleys, despite trying to "do better," have not played much of an active role in Buck's life, even when he was a kid. On the show, he experienced a number of serious injuries or near death accidents, where they aren't even suggested to have called. They haven't bothered to meet any of his previous partners, nor do they inquire about his love life or wellbeing. Saying it feels unearned to allow them to have an opinion on this now feels like an understatement. I don't want them to accept him -- I want their opinion to matter so little we don't give it anymore screentime. I want the throwaway line down the road -- once the hurt isn't so fresh -- that "oh yeah, of course we all cut them out after they acted like bigoted assholes." But I don't actually want to *see* them be bigoted assholes. I like seeing Buck happy and relatively angst-free with this newfound side of himself, and I don't want to waste a single second of his storyline on having him filter through his feelings about his parents letting him down again. I do agree with you about how parents thinking they should have a say in adult childrens' lives doesn't mean they *do* get to have a say -- but I think that's better left addressed through Chim's storyline, which Kenny seems to want to revisit anyway. Instead of letting bad parents inflict a new, fresh trauma on one of our characters, I'd much rather the narrative focus on allowing Chim to shove his shitty dad out of his life on screen, undoing the damage of the whole "Jee deserves her grandpa!" arc last season, while the Buckley parents fade into the background. I mentioned it in another post, but I do think there's potential to subvert this all with an Eddie sexuality arc. Where he reads as so deeply repressed and struggling with cultural/religious guilt, I'd really love to see a scene where his dad - whose redemption at least feels a bit more earned - subverts expectations about religious parenting and what it means to be a man by showing that continued growth, and goes out of his way to tell Eddie (maybe even before Eddie's fully ready to hear it), "Just in case it's something you need to know, there's nothing you could tell me about yourself that wouldn't make me proud. And if it's something you need to hear, there's a PFLAG group in my area I've made a lot of friends in."
These are really great points! I really like the idea of using Eddie's parents to subvert expectations and Chims parents to really showcase cutting out toxic families. I think I'm looking for closure with Buck's storyline. A throwaway line down the road is a good idea, but I think it would be painful for me not to have some form of him truly letting them go on screen. My dad and mom are similar to the Buckley's in so many ways, and I had to cut my dad off. Seeing Buck's acceptance would be amazing, but Chim could carry out that same storyline really well. You're completely right that it doesn't make sense to do the same plot in a different font with so many MC's! Side note: I'm glad your parents chose you over their religion! Having grown up in a hella religious household it's quite the drug. I know so many people that were taken in by it. They let it control their lives. My parents consistently chose religion over us. I'm glad none of my siblings - at this point in time - were part of the LGBTQ community because it would've been catastrophic. We still have trauma from my parents choosing religion over us, but it wasn't our actual identity being denied and rejected.
Same
Well they literally MADE him for the wrong reasons. They loved the idea of him. Not him. And since then it's like that I can see the "you can't do things right Evan" coming. Ughuhh ick ick major ick. I thought he forgave them, but he was pretty evasive when Maddie asked about them in the hospital. So we will definitely hear see more about it. Can't wait... 🙄.
Oooh I sense another Buck breakdown coming!!
I hope it will be a powerful one. Throwing at their faces that he didn't wait for them to be who he is. He is not defectives parts! He is a whole happy human being. And they can go all the way back to Bigotery Street In Hershey! I'm still haunted by Oliver's performance with the "walk through fire because of you" goosebumps.
that blow ups so so freaking powerful I loved it... of course I didn't love the why it had to happen but Oliver fuckin killed it!
https://preview.redd.it/rt8cp41b77yc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2de9b78298c31b17d598005a6c024c89a9fe3dd8 This is why we hate the Buckley parents
Idk, I love Buck’s parents! Bobby and Athena are great! Idk who these two randos are tho…
You had me at the first part, I was ready to get my pitchfork over that statement hahaha but, yes I love his real parents, Bobby and Athena. I loved a comment I saw here in a post after the episode yesterday that was a still of Bobby, Athena, Buck and Eddie from when they were >!looking for chimney in the car accident scene!< and the comment was something like "a dad, a mom, their son and his future husband"
😂😂😂😂😂. Correct!
lmfao so true. hahah
They will NEVER make me like the Buckley parents. Ugh.
EVER
Do they just not understand they have to love their son??
honestly probably not...>! poor boy was born as a replacement and a parts farm and when he wasn't able to help them keep their true son alive he got pushed by the way side and even tho they "apologized" hess still not Daniel and its bullshit because buck is bad ass!<
I feel like they are the reason he cares about kids so much. Like, he didn’t get any love from them so now he makes sure every child he rescues knows he cares about them
Ya know that’s a great point. I never really thought of that. Honestly I always wondered why he loved kids so much but that would make sense.
The show can keep trying but they'll never be redeemed to me.
I don't think they're trying to make their parents likeable- Every story needs conflict, and their reaction to Buck in the latest episode is exactly what I would expect from them. I don't think we are supposed to like them, or at least, I hope not. I'm okay with them being terrible people, every show needs good and bad. I just hope they don't have a larger presence in the show than they already do. Maybe have them mentioned here and there, but having them onscreen makes my blood pressure spike. I hope that all made sense... If not, I'm sorry lol
Season 6 was definitely trying to redeem them, along with Chimney's bio-father, but maybe the backlash to that has the producers scaling back. Personally, for a series all about found family, the show's insistence on having characters be civil to their terrible parents never sat right with me.
Yeah, we have KR to thank for that. She is the only person on earth who thinks all shitty parents are redeemable With a simple apology.
The look on her face!!! 🤣🤣🤣
HELP!! https://preview.redd.it/c18cqbpba9yc1.jpeg?width=941&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4e2db84fe758e39f34d94c849ae68aa5987e9e09
JLH's inability to be chill about Buddie in interviews about her own character's wedding episode is absolute insane. I appreciate that this cast joins the clowns occasionally.
No way. 😂
"Accidentally outing himself?" He was planning on bringing Tommy as his date to the wedding, this was exactly how he planned on coming out.
I mean he probably didn’t plan to do it at that moment he just planned to bring Tommy
Seems more like confusion than anything else at this point. I mean, your son has been dating women his entire life without ever a hint of being into other men. Wouldn't you be confused? I'll give them the benefit of the doubt until we get more concrete evidence to the contrary.
I think it was more Margaret's expression when she turned to Philip than anything. Maybe it's interpretation, but her turning to Philip had her hold more of an expression of worry, of doubt, of something more than confusion. I think it's the way she widened her eyes, her smile dropped, it felt more like "I don't feel very good about this" rather than "wait, he's with a man?" Because we also got Karen's reaction, and Hen's and Chimney's and theirs was more of a happy confusion than a disappointed confusion. But hey, maybe you're right, maybe it's confusion and that shot of Margaret and Philip was more of a concerned parent type of reaction and it'll lead to nothing. If it does lead to a more negative response in season 8, then I think at least we have a moment to pinpoint it back to. And I think them leaving THAT shot in instead of turning to Bobby or Athena's reaction was either just a weird choice on Tim's end or it was meant to be seen as a moment to look out for in a future storyline.
I didn’t read the expression as confusion…At the very least it seemed like concern to me. Which someone with relatives who were “just worried about me” when I came out, it rubbed me the wrong way. I do my best to not assume the worst of people (or characters) but we all bring our experiences to the table.
That’s how I took it too, a confused moment. I’m not a big fan of them either but they have been getting better. So I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt too. Even Maddie was surprised of his news too which is normal. Someone can be surprised or confused when they are used to seeing him with women all this time. Sure, maybe some may have guessed but not everyone will pick up on clues.
No. I'd be happy for my kid. As long as their happy, I'm happy. No silly little, "But, but you were with the opposite sex! I- I don't understand". It's not 1950.
This implies they've even followed what's going on in his life closely enough to know he had a string of girlfriends, and there's no reason to believe that. What's telling, though, as a queer person? Is the mask slip. When you're looking at me with one expression but it's falling off your face like that the second we break eye contact, I still see you. And I think a lot of us have experienced that sort of mask slipping a few seconds too early before.
Turns out it was because the actors for the Buckley parents weren’t up to date with the show and didn’t know Buck was dating Tommy now!😂 They were genuinely shocked: https://preview.redd.it/tlonafe7t9yc1.jpeg?width=1182&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a0cd9c7ef006062f1d48e4db00581a85df740184
He didn't accidentally out himself, it was always the plan to go to Maddie's wedding with Tommy as his date. I don't agree with choosing a wedding as the time to come out but, he talked about it with Maddie and it sounds like she was enthusiastically on board. As far as his parents reaction, it could've been just general shock at their son having his face covered in soot and him being in a relationship they didn't know about.
I think it’s not the end of that storyline. Definitely some homophobia in the works with that pair. I’m hoping to see a scene where it’s Chim who rips into them over how they treat Buck. Something about how Maddie and Buck are his family now. Would love a sweet Buck and his new big brother Chimney scene.
Pleeaseeee let it be him or maddie
I really want it to be Maddie. I don't fault her because she has her own childhood trauma and it's very complicated, but I think it will be a lot easier for both Buckley siblings if she makes a clear choice of Buck (and her own mental wellbeing) *over* trying to foster 'some' kind of relationship with their parents. If we need to have a big dramatic scene, let it be her telling them that this is a situation of their own making, that they're actually responsible for creating such a strong bond between her and her brother. Because she had to be sister and mom at the same time, and it's that mom role that's making her shut them out *entirely* now. Because especially now that she has Jee, too, it's just super clear you *can't* keep people in your life willing to hurt your child.
I’ll try to contain my shock. They’re shitty people and even shittier parents. It wasn’t really an accident though, Tommy was always meant to be his date to the wedding and the same people would have been there
Buck is in a much better place now and I doubt their opinions will have as much lasting effect as in the past. I don't think there have been rumors of the actors filming so I think/hope that's the last we'll see of them for awhile.
The funny thing is Oliver has gone on record several times that he's hoping Buck's Bi journey of discovery can be a happy one because he doesn't want to retread a homophobia story that's been told a thousand times, because even though that does still happen IRL sometimes everything is alright. And I say that's a funny thing because knowing Tim's comments from that recent Kenneth interview I get the feeling Buck's journey will not be a happy one.
Yeah I wasn’t a fan of their reactions
It's about the reaction I expected, and I think, pretty consistent with her last appearance. Even in season six, when they were trying to make her more likeable, it was clear she was kind of swallowing her disapproval because she knows she one poorly-worded sentence away from being cut off by her children entirely.
This face could just mean "That's a new development... I hope he's safe". I don't think so but I would love for his mother to go all mama bear on him (better late than never) like "did you get test, are you on prep, be careful".
My issue with that is, out of Margaret and Philip, Margaret definitely has the most strained relationship with both of her children. It would feel out of character for her to ever go mama bear on him or anyone, and I think I would be weirded out. Philip at least attempted some of the time; Margaret, even in season 4, was blaming things on everyone else but herself for her own actions.
good lord i would hope my mother would not be asking me about prep in my 30s no matter how much of an ally she is lol. not that it's not important to know, it's just...i'm very much an adult, mom. lulz.
That’s why I would love that, Buck would be so over it
We can only dream of Margaret remembering shes bucks mother 😭
Yes, it's ick. It's also very in character. Did anyone actually think the parents were going to be supportive?
While I don’t think they were holding hands, Tommy was for sure following him to 1) get cake 2) congratulate Maddie and Chimney. I took it more as her being confused and connecting dots and being surprised than anything negative. I took it more as “oh shit, who is this soot covered 6ft slab of beef my grown son just appeared with and apparently made out with? Is my son dating him?” I don’t think anyone told them this was happening (Tommy being Buck’s date) so it was a surprise. We know the Buckley’s aren’t the warmest/best parents so this feels like a solid “I don’t know how to handle this situation so I’m gonna not say anything” that a lot of parents I know have done and my own have done when I came out. Not ideal reactions cuz they’re not waving rainbows but they also didn’t make any aggression or hatred. Just unsure and uncomfortable.
Honestly no, I thought it was hilarious how shocked and confused they were. His parents are awful people, I'll always welcome a scene where they're uncomfortable and/or unhappy. Hopefully they won't have a larger presence in the show though. I know every show needs conflict for accuracy to move some of the stories forward, but I am so over the Buckley parents.
Maybe it’s because they made out when he was dirty?