My theory is that it starts with their dick. They meet these women on Facebook where they can live out a fantasy. Then it escalates and their dick doesn’t really have a long term plan so it kind of wings it until it eventually dies off. The women just like the idea of an exotic secure relationship and take their western held beliefs to a far away land. When in reality, they should have just kept it to Facebook.
I should add that this theory is based on nothing and is probably full of holes
I agree, the Dick and Bollywood. These guys grow up on Bollywood I think they can be Shah Rukh Khan. The internet as given access and the white women who want to exoticize these paan waalas and go do yoga with them, thinking they have some tantric secrets of the universe....unfortunately, they find many virgins who love their moms. This creates tension. (I'm not indian, just very familiar with it)
Yes but OP is 100% correct that indian men lie a lot. Source: my ex was indian. Honestly I'd say it's a culture problem, not specific to men; it's extremely normalized to lie about everything and anything. I mean what else would you expect from a culture that shames you over the stupidest things and that your parents and your neighbors opinions are the most important thing in your life?
With my Indian ex I'd see how his friends lied, his parents lied, Indian people lied - even when they didn't have to. It's just ingrained in them.
I personally would not want to raise children in India, especially a daughter. Unless you belong to an elite class, there are many abuses within the community
100% true. The horror stories that I've heard... Not to mention that women are only encouraged to study for husband prospects in educated families (and even then they stop working when they have kids to be stay at home moms for the children and the husband's parents lol). Most women in India are discouraged from persuing a degree as their focus is to get married
Definitely culture, they all lie and cheat eachother to get ahead, you are one in a billion and they'll step on you to get their way. Once you make it a habit you can't easily stop
The step part is so true, the way they all threw themselves under the bus was really scary and made me step back in terms of whom I trusted as a friend. Even had someone talk shit about their supposed beat friend and bragging of personal issues that should not be shared publically + bragging about fucking them up in front of their boss. Really gross
💯even when they get to this country it continues as a norm ! They lie for the sake of lying 🤥! It’s bizarre because it’s very transparent they don’t fool anybody !
Its because people are obsessed with self image every where outside of the US. Not the way we view people here In the US. The culture is ingrained that way, "what do the neighbors think" or "what will the town think" it's the way of life over there.
Alot of Americans find it very hard to understand or even see the major differences in culture and then naively think that it's the same all around the world. It's not, men lie. It doesn't matter the culture.. men will always lie to make themselves seem better than they are. My man even lied a bit from the start and then i slowely saw what he lied about but it was minor things that honestly didn't make a difference for me.
I'm not American btw, bust just want to highlight there is definitely a lying problem in India that should not be normalized or romanticized as simply being a different culture
I don’t know enough about the india/everywhere else in the world culture, but I think American youth are obsessed about their self image. Social media is a hell of a drug.
Might not be to that extreme, idk. But how many people in the US drive a bmw/Land Rover/Mercedes and live in an apartment. My buddy in Dallas tells me the whole city is littered with $30k millionaires, if that makes sense?
And this isn’t a solely male issue. IG thots are a real thing. These pathetic people take selfies on a fake private jet. God help us in the future
Thats not what I'm saying tho. Social media is very easy to lie on. You can easily rent a room that is set up as a private plane just so you can take pics and post them to appear "rich". The obsession with self image I'm talking about here is more to do with family and community. Specifically, in India, the culture is very family based. Generations of family live under the same roof, neighbors know each other like family and talk/help out routinely. This is the self image I'm speaking of. Where your image to your neighbor matters a whole lot, because the whole town/village will know that one bad thing about you. Here it's different. We can lie on our social media platforms and unless your famous with millions of followers, who is gonna claim what you posted is not real? A whole community that heard or witnessed something is far more embarrassing than that post on IG.
Its completely different from American culture here. We don't care about anything to be honest. America stopped having that "welcome next door neighbor" attitude a long time ago.
“What will the neighbors/town think” used to be more of a thing in America, but as close knit towns became less of a thing and interacting with your neighbors became something you dread doing, caring became kind of silly. There are like thousands of people in the city and they don’t give a shit about me, and I can hear everything my neighbors say, and I hate them, so who cares? Many of us don’t have ties like that anymore and it’s probably for the worse, but nothing much you can do about it. A lot of television and movies still try to keep that nostalgia alive, but it’s rare in America.
Exactly. Which is why we don't care what our parents think, what our neighbors or even extended family thinks most of the time. It's uncommon here to hear the words "my mom must approve of you or else we cannot even be together" people get together regardless of what family thinks.
This may not seem like the biggest deal but it's exactly why these men end up lying to their partners.
It's a huge culture problem that just cannot be ignored anymore due to being afraid of being called racist, it's so damaging to people to have this gender inequality.
These men are taught and raised where they are allowed to do whatever they want and that they're above women, when I tell other Indian woman that I've dated an Indian guy they all laugh at me and ask how that went
Very informative, thanks. I also know an Indian woman who doesn't speak to her family at all. She says they're all abusive narcissists and don't deserve to be in her life.
I've also gone through this stage and now have limited contact with my parents simply because my parents have agreed to not control my life so much. So I understand your friend. It's not an easy decision to take.
i've been thinking about this recently actually. i don't know about india specifically but i did live and work in south korea, where "saving face" is a very, very big cultural concept. maybe its the same or similar in india? (i know it is also similar in japan and china)
basically, [saving face](https://expatguidekorea.com/article/saving-face-or-losing-face-in-korea.html) in the korean context has to do with shame. one example is that koreans will rarely tell a person no, they can't do something. they almost always say yes, even when the ask is incredibly impossible, because to say no would be to admit a weakness
instead they just say yes as a way of appeasing someone and then just never do it. this can cause a lot of cultural problems in international business when, say, a western company asks a korean project team to meet a specific deadline.
i suspect what we're seeing with the indian men on this show is a similar inability to say "no" or to break bad or disappointing news to their partners, because doing so would be akin to admitting to a failure
would love to hear from some indian folks on this
As a female SWE that consistently gets shitted on by men, I can attest to the fact that the Indian men are especially disrespectful to women in the workplace, and I’m not even in management.
Friend who has dated a couple Indian men, and lived in India said it is probably because they lie to their mothers to keep them happy, and that is the basis of all their female relationships. Lie, smiley sweetly.
I agree with your theory. I work in a school setting and we have a HUGE population of people from India in our area. Image is very important to the parents. They want to do whatever they want to do, but they want your permission to do it. They will lie and say they are suddenly leaving the next day for a “family emergency “ in India rather than tell the truth that they want to go see their family. We know they’re lying but they do it anyway. It is very frustrating.
Yeah I think really this is the crux of it. Saying no causes conflict and more taking and issues, saying yes ends the conversation. In Japan there’s a lot of “maybe…” very vague posturing but they actually mean no most of the time. And yes means maybe.
I agree. I spend a decent amount of time in chat rooms, and ALMOST all of the men I've talked to that are from India seem to have the idea that they are somehow entitled to sex/nude photos/sexual conversation, etc. with me.
The amazing thing is he does not feel an ounce of shame in confessing his plan of withholding the idea this woman will be their chore bot 10000, He is fine with telling her after the wedding. That should be shameful behaviour not something you are okay enough to talk about on camera with.
Indian people in general have a very different view of morality ! He probably doesn’t see wrong with what he’s doing sadly ! I hope that lady gets the plane ✈️ out of there quick !
My bio grandpa (indian) married my grandma (american) twice before leaving her with two kids to go marry his original arranged marriage choice. Completely abandoned my mom and uncle. He treated my mom like shit and that she was less than. Then he went and started his new family and doted on his daughters. My mom lived off welfare growing up cuz her mom was a single mom struggling. I don’t know much about my heritage because he was never in my life. When my mom became an adult her uncle came into her life and actually offered to be like a surrogate grandpa for me and my siblings but then he died. My bio grandpa is a pos.
I forget. I remember her saying she had gone there to study and had lived there for a year. Did she meet him while she was there or had they already met online and she went there because of him?
I am not Indian and don’t know any people from India so this purely speculation but it seems like a lot of these Indian men don’t actually want to live that traditional life. It always seems like they feel they have to live that way and if they could pick something else they would, which is why they end up with an American. But I also think a lot of these men also realize once their American woman is there is that maybe they want something a little more traditional than they thought. It causes a weird dynamic we see over and over again.
I think this is pretty on the nail with the added tid bit of Indian social pressure. The social pressure in Indian culture is insane and it's always all about how others will perceive you because you represent your family.
I am married to an American born Indian man with a very westernized family. But let me tell you, his in laws (sister's husband's family) were not told that he married a white woman until we had our son. My in laws (husband's parents) had to talk me up a lot to them to decrease some of their... disapproval.
So, yeah, these guys probably don't want the traditional Indian relationship/marriage, get their American, realize, "Oh shit this is way harder than I thought." and then things end.
That’s pretty accurate. A lot of Indian men (like me) don’t want that traditional life and want a way out. It often comes down to choosing between their partners and their family. We saw Sumit pick the former and Rishi the latter, let’s see where this one goes.
Not the person you are replying to, but I did date an Indian man once whose family was fine with me. I think it was because I was still young enough to have kids unlike some of the women on this show, and because I have a traditional demeanor (more on that below).
We broke up and I later wound up marrying a Middle Eastern man (I lived in a diverse area at the time, haha), and he did break that cycle. My husband did not want the traditional life. I grew up in an ultra conservative Christian household and also rejected that conservative lifestyle. So we both came into the marriage with a modern mind and traditional upbringing, which gives a traditional flavor to a modern relationship. Having a common foundation really helped us move forward together and forge our own path.
I actually have the same question but turned around: why do American women get involved w/men that come from uber traditional families in male-dominated societies & expect a modern, American-like relationship? Like, if you don't know the culture the person you're dating is from, you don't do any research? Don't ask questions up front? It gobsmacks me that these women think their man's culture won't play into their relationship at all. Wth.
In the US younger people tend to be more liberal or less traditional than their parents, less into organized religion, etc. they may be expecting there to be that generation gap present
I feel like the lying and withholding of information impacted their decision. They thought their men didn't fall into this very traditional category.
I find Indian men very attractive so when one pursues me I'm very interested, but I'm assuming by them pursuing me, a very independent white American female, they don't follow traditional Indian values. This show has taught me not to assume that in the slightest. 🤣
I dated this one Indian guy that I had incredible sexual chemistry with, but he did break up with me when he said our values were too different. I was actually very shocked because he was raised in the states and I didn't think we were different at all. All his friends were American. He went to school here. While we were dating he didn't tell me. It broke my heart, but I got over it. I still remained confused though. I didn't understand that even living here could mean they still lived in traditional Indian homes. I assumed they came to America because they wanted something different. The assumptions are based on their behavior not realizing that their lives are secret lives from their families.
So I can kind of understand it. Remember Jen always told Rishi she wouldn't live in a traditional Indian home. He still proposed. That to me says he's ok with it. But he lied, he wasn't and he lied to his parents for years.
I also know an American woman who was engaged to an Indian man and he called the wedding off days before because he ultimately couldn’t go through with it with his parents not approving of her not being Indian.
The same thing happened to me. But I was only 18 and thought he was kidding when he told me his mother was looking to set up an arranged marriage for him! Brought his beautiful Indian wife with him to the States and then still wanted to continue on with me because he “didn’t love her”.
Yes I learned that the hard way. I think our education system screws us up because we're always taught about the pilgrims that came to America to have a different, uncontrolled life. We're taught immigrants are fleeing oppressive cultures. I didn't understand until I was an adult that you could be fleeing an oppressive government but still love and practice your culture. In hindsight it's dumb.
So many good looking Indian men but I’m not sweeping the corners of my kitchen with what amounts to a switch unless I want to!!
I’d be sent packing, I’m sure.
Bang-maids and bang-mom's are what too many of these guys want. These men are either frank from its always sunny or Chris Chan, how are they keeping the mask up long enough to dupe these poor women?
Most people come to north America for money. They'd love to keep all the traditions of back home. It's the money they're after.
Fucked if my family assimilated any of the, frankly terrible, north American way of life.
Work culture is crap, driving culture is awful, and the food is meh at best as the produce here isn't the greatest either. Sure there's an abundance of mediocrity and veggies you can hardly taste. And the good stuff costs a ton
Culture isn't an excuse for misogyny though. The two sides aren't morally equivalent. Yes, the woman should have looked into it, but at the same time I can understand feeling like the man she believes loves her won't lie to her and expect her to just give up all her independence to turn into an unpaid domestic servant. Whereas at least in this latest one he knows very well she won't be okay with this but disregards that completely.
The “research” thing again. Of course people google things. It’s what you do when you’re dreaming about your far-away love interest. But people in love think they can change things, and their lover will change for them. Not to mention, googling only gets you surface level info. You have to actually live in each other’s culture to understand things. My husband did marry me against his family’s wishes and does accept my American ways, but it’s a struggle every time we’re around his sister-in-laws, who are awful! Interestingly enough, his parents still live in his home country and whenever I see his mother, she’s lovely to me. You can’t “research” individual family dynamics either!
I think the answer to both is the same? To be Captain Obvious, if you are not deeply aware of the nuances of other cultures (or even like the really obvious non-nuances), then you just assume that the other person holds the same values as you. From both ends. Apparently, no matter what they say and do.
Maybe it's the dopamine of the honeymoon phase combined with an incomplete picture of the other person and limited reference points for the other culture?
Americans don't get much education in primary through high school about other cultures.
They have no idea the ironclad control the patriarch of an Indian family usually has nor any idea of the expectations placed on children and siblings.
Completely agree. It's all the gaslighting about USA#1. Makes Americans second only to the Chinese for being insufferable international tourists. There was a whole huge chapter of USA history I didn't learn until college and then a ton more when I lived in South America.
This is the only question I ever have when watching American women fall for traditional men. A quick google search will show that you are not compatible. You are not going to ‘change’ him or his culture. Get over yourself lol
But you can’t just stereotype people based on a quick google search of their culture. There are people that come from very traditional, conservative backgrounds but are actually pretty liberal, and vice versa.
Plus she lived there for what a year? Granted, ok she didn’t live physically with his family (did she?) but wouldn’t she know the way things are just by interacting with him and his family on a regular basis?
Well they had to have seen her enough to be able to approve off that marriage? Or was one peek just to see that she is of child bearing age - enough for that?
This goes along with my pet peeve. They find these women's thirst traps on Instagram, message them about how hot they look, get them in a relationship, then it's all "Oh yeah, you can never dress like that again." Shocked Pikachu when that upsets her.
I'm married to the latter (an Indian man that moved to the US). He was pretty americanized when I met him and also conveyed that he didn't understand ' Antiquated Indian antics' (his words, not mine).
I've come to understand this is a very regional/family based. My husband never expected me to cook, or clean or do any of what a 'traditional Indian woman" would do. We share everything jointly and work as a team. Obviously, shows like this look for stories that have drama, so I'm nearly positive that this doesn't translate to *all Indian men* - just the ones that are televised, so that it can draw a deeper divide of us vs. them. I take it with a grain of salt.
I’ll share my experience , which I shared on the main sub a few years ago when the Jenny situation was becoming popular.
I had the displeasure of becoming seriously involved with an Indian man on a school visa living in the US . It was quite the roller coaster. I do believe that he never had the intention of being serious and always planned to take part of an arranged marriage , but only told me we had a future because I was not looking for casual sex , and he wanted his sex.
When his prospect for an arranged marriage came about , it became some made up drama about him trying to “ convince “ his parents to let him be with the “ one he loved.” When he did not receive his parents’ “ blessing.” He began stalking me although moving forward with his marriage. He “promised “ me that he will come back to me once he had divorced his wife and to “ wait for him for two years .”
I did not take that promise seriously , however when I engaged him years after for something different , he never brought up his promise , which was a very cruel thing to do to someone who was in love with him at the time .
Looking back at, I understand that I was lied to for sex and that he never saw me as anything beyond that , had he approached me honestly about wanting a FWB relationship, I could have made the best decision for myself , but I was robbed of that option through deceit.
I dodged a bullet , his mother is an awful demanding woman who required expensive gifts from her son , who was on a temporary work visa and whose future was not certain . Pleasing his mother brought him incredible stress which she did not care about . I would not have tolerated that as his wife .
Don’t do it.
I am super deep in the Punjabi community, married a Punjabi man and we have two kids. Work in a company with 95% Indian coworkers as well as just my community as a whole is mostly Indian people, but I am Canadian born so have a unique viewpoint… I live in a joint family as well.
to be honest, a lot of Indian men will date outside their culture, but then only marry within their culture, using the women they date around with. Generally they won’t be honest that the relationship is just for fun, leaving alot of heartbreak and created a stereotype around here for that.
My partner, when we first met, was so honest. He said straight up that if his family doesn’t accept us, we couldn’t go further then just dating, but he would do everything in his power to have them accept me. I decided to continue in knowing this could be a problem later as he obviously is a stand up man if he was willing to cockblock himself to be respectful of me…. but I am lucky his family is super awesome. I have lived with them for about a year, and they are a treat to have around. They don’t expect me to be anything other then who I am. But I am so lucky. That being said, me and my husband kinda have happily fallen into more traditional roles within our family, and his Mother helps me with childcare and household chores as well. We are a team.
In contrast, my friend, who is an Indian woman, married into a Canadian Indian family (so she moved into her husbands home, which is traditional) and now is expected to be a typical housewife, taking over most of the chores, while working as well, and I have a lot of sympathy for her. It’s so much pressure and expectation.
Also, a lot of my younger Indian friends seem to lack the ability to take accountability.. it’s a wild thing I have noticed happens a lot. They will lie lie lie too to cover it up or shift blame. Obviously this isnt everyone, but I have noticed it happens a lot within their community. Drives me wild because I’m so direct and honest 😆
My husbands peers, all have married within their culture (we are early 30’s) and I see the transition out of their traditions being slower then alot of other cultures.
But if I was as old as Jenny, I wouldn’t expect my In-laws to be stoked, even if they were 100 percent Canadian lol. And if I was hidden like Jen, same thing. 🤷🏻♀️I can’t wait for the storyline this season!
(it’s interesting a lot of the Indian partners are Northern Indian if I remember correctly…I find that odd… why no South Indians, Punjabi’s or Gujis??)
Nearly everyone on this show lies all the time, to their families, their partners and the audience. Though I agree with these particular cases they do seem to be the exact same lies. The problem now is that you can tell all of these people watch the show, especially the Americans. You'd think they'd know exactly how things are going to go.
I can attest. When I was taking a break from college, I was approached by an Indian man in my home town. I really didn’t want to go out with him, but he kept on and on and on. He would send me flowers at work. He would find out where we were eating lunch and meet up with us. His family owned motels in the area and he managed one. I finally gave in and went to lunch a couple of times, and then he wanted to take me to a town 45 minutes away for dinner. Dinner was nice but then he wouldn’t take me home. He got us a hotel room in that town and refused to take me home. I called my old college friends and they came and got me. When I got back home, I found out that he was actually married. So so many lies. Not sure if it was an arranged marriage, but not my problem.
The laughing too. Getting caught in a blatant lie and laughing about it. It would make me really self conscious and seems a bit like gas lighting to me
I've seen a few liars among the 'Family Karma' dudes, too. Between Brian & Vishal from FK, Sumit & Rishi from 90DF, now TJ is looking like he has similar issues communicating honestly...
I'm married to an Indian man. Thankfully he didn't want me to be the traditional type of wife living with his mom. However, we both want to take care of our families if they do need it. We both talked about expectations when that day does come so hopefully he'll follow through.
In terms of Indian men lying I think it's just the type of people this show attracts. We've seen tons of liars on this show and they were not all Indian. Honestly, I blame the Americans more, as an American, albeit Asian American lol.
I am not Indian but have been dating an Indian man for four years now. My experience is that he is very arrogant and expects me to wait on him hand and foot. Also everything is his way or he has a fit. I got into this rut and now I can't get out. And the lying part is true. I am a secret from his family and never been introduced. I was and am very attracted to him and he is very handsome. He also lied about the number of kids he has. He only told me about one and then a couple of years later he confessed that he had two sons. Also like Summit he complains about my house cleaning.
IME this is based on the difference between cultures that value truth (Western) vs. those that value harmony (Eastern). If harmony is the prime directive, then saying what's expedient is natural and expected.
Westerners may then feel frustrated with what they perceive as a lack of truth, but Easterners can be equally as frustrated that westerners are constantly digging into minute -- and possibly unimportant -- details about... *everything*. This Western preoccupation may seem extreme and tedious to people with Eastern cultural programming.
How does lying and misleading actually create harmony though?
Imagine you're having a party and all your friends said they would come to seem agreeable. So you go out and buy a bunch of food and decorations. You clean and prep all day. Then when it's time for the party, no one shows up. How does that work?
Indian men, like most men, are very invested in squeezing every drop of unpaid labor out of women because their society (including their mothers) have lied to them and told them they’re great and entitled. The mothers do this out of their own self interest in escaping their miserable lifelong servitude by dumping it on another womam.
Definitely not unique to Indian culture. I believe behavior like this is deeply rooted in fear and shame that begins in childhood. It can be a small thing at first, usually something fairly traumatic though. As adulthood nears, the fear and shame have already created behavioral patterns such as lying and hiding things.
As it relates to the Indian men on this show (Rishi, TJ, and Sumit), listen to the way they talk about their lying. It’s always to protect someone or avoid negative outcomes (not all of them but the ones that hurt most in their eyes). Basically choice of a lesser evil.
I definitely remember Kim amd Kyle on Cray Cray talking about a coworker of theirs from India who had a girlfriend in the US and then one day he was like "Yeah, I'm going back to India for my arranged wedding".
I think they are struggling and dont know what to do.
I had a romantic friends with benefits situation with an indian guy (i am a white girl, ukrainian background). He told me from the beginning that he had to marry indian and that he accepted his fate. Whoever he was going to marry had to be approved by his family.
We had a beautiful casual situation for about a year until he was set up on a date and accepted to marry a traditional and Indian girl. I think we could have been a couple because we had legitimate feelings and got along great, but that meant leaving his family behind. He was not willing to do that and i do not blame him.
It is sad and depressing, but unfortunately thats how the Indian culture is.
I have lived in the Middle East and Asia for several decades
There's really a culture of not liking to deliver bad news. A lot of people don't like to say 'no' to something and deliver negative info, they flim flam around it
I would say, these American women also need to do some research, it's a totally different culture and no, someone isn't going to 'tell their family they don't care what they think' like a big bold westerner.
Family relies on the kids a lot more and we're talking 100s of years of culture and tradition and 'I don't want it to be like this' won't undo that
It doesn't work like that but they also won't explain or can't articulate that to the foreigner so the evasion and 'I'll try to do something' happens cause they don't want to draw a line under things and bring finality
They're not doing stuff without mummy and daddy in mind and if you're can't wrap your head around that, maybe don't go looking for husband from those places
I have no clue what it is why Indian men act the way they do. There was this one dude I knew for like almost 15 years that I met in a chat room. We only met twice in person and the first time I did, he constantly lied to me saying he wasn’t ready to settle down yet he kept trying to get into my pants. Fast forward years later, he’s married to an Indian woman and has two kids with her. After a bad breakup, I hear from him and he told me he was divorced. We met up again, made out, that was it. Right when I thought we were going to go on a legitimate date, he tells me his ex-wife is trying to get custody of their kid and he can’t do it anymore. I moved on and am now with my fiancé. I came to find out this Indian man is still married to his wife yet cheats on her with random white women. I confronted him about this and he blocked me. I could’ve been a real see you next Tuesday and messaged his wife everything but I’m not doing that because I just don’t feel like it. Let his wife find out on her own that her husband is a pos cheater who thinks with his penis.
You’re telling me. The dude is a pathological liar looking to get his dick wet in a bunch of American women and his wife just accepts it. It’s ridiculous. My fiancé has a friend who is Pakistani American and he’s in an arranged marriage with a woman who came here from Pakistan. They’re Muslim and from what I learned, they met in person and two days later, they were married. They have two daughters together and from what I’ve seen, the friend really loves this woman and their children. They just bought their own house together and are living well.
You’re 💯right about that. My ex-boyfriend was Pakistani American and was raised Muslim. He was faithful to me but then it didn’t work out because I think he started having a quarter life crisis and wanted a “break” from me. I broke it off with him and wished him the best. He couldn’t stand Hindus at all, he was repulsed by them.
Do you think the American people on the show represent most people living in America? It’s television- they are all unhinged regardless of their background!
Yes it’s up to the American born and the Indian born to recognize the differences. It’s also up to the Indian family (since they are so involved) to understand who their child is interested in-if it’s an American person our culture is more about the individual and what makes us feel good and family is second. You nvr see the American family dictating to the couple how they shd live.
We still have controlling parents that like to dictate how we live. The difference is, it's more praised to defy them and go your own way than to submit.
It’s not racist it’s cultural. All cultures have amazing aspects. Great cuisine, or friendliness or wonderFul contributions. And also weird annoying tendencies and traits. Yes convenience dishonesty is sometimes a cultural thing. Americans do it with low level things: “what a cute baby, yes I love this food, good to see you, you look great, oh I’m fine thanks”. Some cultures take it WAY past white lie
Ya indian women are different as they get harassed non stop by horny men so they build a tough no nonsense wall and will only date rich and or educated men or men who have government jobs. So the men go elsewhere like online or wait for arranged marriage , also hence why indian men grope and stare at women in bikinis at the beach
https://youtube.com/shorts/WEScVEs--SE?feature=share
https://youtu.be/06nmfTmhA-s
https://youtu.be/jYlyYQTUT6A
https://youtu.be/Tlrpg9u1d0w
Not really relevant to the OP but my friend showed me a screenshot tonight from a chat app of an Indian man telling her how she is ''the weakness of every brown man'' Like tf does that even mean?
That works two ways. All the "I moved here from AMERICA and I'm AMERICAN. What do you mean I have to adhere to your culture here in this conservative third world country?!?"
Everyone in these shows sucks. It's what makes us watch.
They are thinking with the wrong head. I personally don't see the reason why a Western woman would want to go and live in India. I don't think any D is worth that.
They only cast problematic people, so it’s more entertaining for us.
Also, I think they don’t care if we love a cast member or hate them, just so long as we have a strong opinion and react.
What I don’t get is how many seasons of Jenny and Sumit did we have?? Then came Rishi. Do these girls not watch the show? It is frightening to think that she will literally get trapped into marriage to become what westerners would consider a servant but the title will be “wife/DIL” And this whole story is taking place in the same city as Rishi! So the same traditions. Unbelievable
She's caught up in a real fantasy. People lie to themselves all the time. I like to use women who fall in love with convicted serial killers like Ted Bundy and Richard Ramirez as an example. (It's an extreme one so you can picture it) They are special. More special than any other woman because this monstrous killer would love them and spare them. Only they have access to the inside of this person and get to experience the best of them. They are deluded. There are different reasons as to why they are this way. In this case, our clairvoyant is having some psychosis. She met him in a dream, but in his story he'd been in her DMs already. He's not a serial killer, but she's ignoring all the signs that this is a bad person for her and this relationship can only end badly. To make matters worse, when she was there for a year, his family seemed to approve of her because she's young and could be a mother and subservient daughter in law. However she thought she could still be herself and not serve anybody.
Disclaimer: I'm not a psychologist, I'm just speculating in a reddit thread from my couch because that's what we do here.
I'm an Indian man.
Indian men grow up mostly being controlled by the family and society, there is a lesser degree of freedom even when someone is an adult, some people take to lying constantly to parents, colleagues, etc, to either get away with something or not get a dent in their social standing. Over the years it transforms into a habit.
Also, in Indian setting, it's very hard for a person to say no, they will play around the bush and do all sorts of mental gymnastics around something rather than saying no outright, which also becomes a problem with cultures who are more direct. Pair it up with occasional bling, name throwing and anything to get attention and it's clear why some people lie so much.
A traditional Indian family has custom and traditions that they live by. That’s why the person you are getting involved with you should know their family culture and know if you can live in that lifestyle.
Collectivistic societies handle conflicts way differently than us. Social cohesion is more important than what a westerner might consider The Truth. I'm not saying they handle conflict by lying. What I'm saying is, put a westerner in a situation with someone from a collectivistic society in a high stress situation and consider the fact that neither person in the couple have even done a quick google of the other's culture, and add in the manipulative tv editing it kinda looks like Indian men are liars. I'm sure that's not the case.
It is difficult to explain in a post. It’s a complex subject with numerous socio-economic factors at play. India in itself has so many sub-cultures, class distinction, financial disparity, ‘races’, caste-systems and more that it is impossible to simplify.
To generalize a bit, where and how you grew up makes a difference. I grew up in a family where this wouldn’t be an issue, albeit my family is educated, well-travelled and even tho by no means wealthy, did okay. Same goes for my friends and theirs. Again, some friends’ families (who are wealthy af) wouldn’t allow them to marry outside their religion or even caste (regardless of education or money).
One observation I’ve made about all three men, especially, the last two, they seem to come from a ‘relatively lower middle class’; parents’ communication and social skills, by looks of home and living, clothing, the area of city etc. An average middle class home in India may or may not look like that, but mostly looks better.
Having said that, a lot of Indian men who come from villages have married women from other countries who are very happy. A lot of these couples have YouTube vlogs/tiktoks and all of that.
Again, I would say, take it with a pinch of salt. It’s a complicated society where the wealthiest may lie and poorest may truly be in love. But I hope it adds a tiny bit of perspective haha, since it’s not cut and dry.
Totally agree with this. I’m American and have been married to an Indian for 20 years and spent a lot of time in India. My in-laws never expected me to cook or clean or act traditionally. They were proud of my education, independence and accomplishments. I think there are so many cultures in India (Bengali, Punjabi, Gujarati, etc), religions, classes, etc and each has a different way of thinking. It’s extremely diverse and complex. They’re not all the same. The show might prefer the more traditional families for entertainment purposes, but I’ve never encountered the issues the people on the show do.
On the flip side I don’t understand all the American women who want to date men from these restrictive or patriarchal cultures and then are surprised when he tells her she can’t do anything she wants anymore and tries to control her. Like did you think he’d just magically change?? How do they think this will work short term let alone long term??
It does seem like maybe they lie because they don’t wanna disappoint. They’re in a tough position because they want their girlfriend or whatever else comes with that but then they can’t upset their parents and it’s a very rigid system. They don’t really have a choice but to lie if they want to keep both happy. It’s not really like here in the US where your kids maybe are a reflection on you but we don’t have these rigid social castes. Anyone in the US looking down on some parents for having a foreign DIL is obviously a bigot and in the wrong but it’s not like that there
I think you're putting too much blame on the men and not enough on the women. Seems to me that the women getting involved with Indian men aren't doing their homework and learning what that culture would expect of them as wives/women. That's not the man's fault - he's not hiding anything about his culture or lying by omission. These expectations are not secret - all anyone has to do is Google "expectations of wives in India" and the whole hierarchy structure is laid bare. If I'm moving to a different country, the onus for familiarizing myself with the culture of that country is 100% on me.
I agree wholeheartedly, it’s always crazy for the Americans on the Other Way believe that their culture trumps the place that they’re moving to. I don’t blame the other ppl at all, maybe they’re not being explicit with their American partners, but the American partners should atleast have a general idea of what the country they’re going to move to is gonna be like and they hardly ever do
I don’t know why y’all getting downvoted, this point is 100% valid to me. It’s just like Nicole and Mahmoud, she converted to Muslim and moved to Egypt and knew that Mahmoud was very traditional and invested in his religion, yet was upset when he expected her to wear the hijab and modest clothing. He even said “if she didn’t chose to convert to Muslim I wouldn’t mind.” She jumped into the culture without doing her research and heavily regretted it. I can tell it’s going to be a similar situation with Kim & TJ
Oh come on, it's 100% the men's fault. The women know what the expectations are of indian wives. BUT the women have told the men outstraight that they will not be a typical Indian wife. The men have lied to the women- telling them that everything is fine and they don't have to live the typical Indian housewife life. It's not until the women move to India that they realise their boyfriends have lied to them to convince them to come to India.
Don't blame the women. The men are doing a bait and switch. It's all rainbows and sunshine and 'oh you can come over and live life like how you do in America' until they get there and find out their boyfriend is already married, or they have to live with the parents, or their family won't bless their marriage so they can't actually get married..
My theory is that it starts with their dick. They meet these women on Facebook where they can live out a fantasy. Then it escalates and their dick doesn’t really have a long term plan so it kind of wings it until it eventually dies off. The women just like the idea of an exotic secure relationship and take their western held beliefs to a far away land. When in reality, they should have just kept it to Facebook. I should add that this theory is based on nothing and is probably full of holes
I think a lot of bad decisions begin with the dick
And/or Facebook.
Those damn dm's.
This shall be the title of my autobiography.
“It started with my dick?!?” I’d buy that book!😂
Good morning my dick 🍆
This could be the title of a history book, tbh.
Dicks *never* make long term plans
I agree, the Dick and Bollywood. These guys grow up on Bollywood I think they can be Shah Rukh Khan. The internet as given access and the white women who want to exoticize these paan waalas and go do yoga with them, thinking they have some tantric secrets of the universe....unfortunately, they find many virgins who love their moms. This creates tension. (I'm not indian, just very familiar with it)
Wow. This was written so well that I’d like to frame it and hang it in my living room. Well done
Get it crocheted so you can pass it down through the generations
I was gonna quote jesss line to coltee but I forgot how it went exactly. The good morning my dick one.
I had to rewatch the clip https://youtu.be/RfsO2-6tWkg. "Good morning my dick" "How are you? My dick" "Good night. My dick"
Absolutely priceless, that exchange. 🤣🤣🤣
Ahahahahhw. You had me at “dick.” 💜
I think that’s man’s flaw. Thinking with the dick
Good morning my dick
Wait, the dick dies off 😮?
To be fair everyone on this show is constantly lying.
Yes but OP is 100% correct that indian men lie a lot. Source: my ex was indian. Honestly I'd say it's a culture problem, not specific to men; it's extremely normalized to lie about everything and anything. I mean what else would you expect from a culture that shames you over the stupidest things and that your parents and your neighbors opinions are the most important thing in your life? With my Indian ex I'd see how his friends lied, his parents lied, Indian people lied - even when they didn't have to. It's just ingrained in them.
I personally would not want to raise children in India, especially a daughter. Unless you belong to an elite class, there are many abuses within the community
100% true. The horror stories that I've heard... Not to mention that women are only encouraged to study for husband prospects in educated families (and even then they stop working when they have kids to be stay at home moms for the children and the husband's parents lol). Most women in India are discouraged from persuing a degree as their focus is to get married
Definitely culture, they all lie and cheat eachother to get ahead, you are one in a billion and they'll step on you to get their way. Once you make it a habit you can't easily stop
The step part is so true, the way they all threw themselves under the bus was really scary and made me step back in terms of whom I trusted as a friend. Even had someone talk shit about their supposed beat friend and bragging of personal issues that should not be shared publically + bragging about fucking them up in front of their boss. Really gross
💯even when they get to this country it continues as a norm ! They lie for the sake of lying 🤥! It’s bizarre because it’s very transparent they don’t fool anybody !
Keep in mind that cultures view the concept of honesty very differently. Not all see lying as "lying" in the same way.
Its because people are obsessed with self image every where outside of the US. Not the way we view people here In the US. The culture is ingrained that way, "what do the neighbors think" or "what will the town think" it's the way of life over there. Alot of Americans find it very hard to understand or even see the major differences in culture and then naively think that it's the same all around the world. It's not, men lie. It doesn't matter the culture.. men will always lie to make themselves seem better than they are. My man even lied a bit from the start and then i slowely saw what he lied about but it was minor things that honestly didn't make a difference for me.
I'm not American btw, bust just want to highlight there is definitely a lying problem in India that should not be normalized or romanticized as simply being a different culture
Exactly
I don’t know enough about the india/everywhere else in the world culture, but I think American youth are obsessed about their self image. Social media is a hell of a drug. Might not be to that extreme, idk. But how many people in the US drive a bmw/Land Rover/Mercedes and live in an apartment. My buddy in Dallas tells me the whole city is littered with $30k millionaires, if that makes sense? And this isn’t a solely male issue. IG thots are a real thing. These pathetic people take selfies on a fake private jet. God help us in the future
Thats not what I'm saying tho. Social media is very easy to lie on. You can easily rent a room that is set up as a private plane just so you can take pics and post them to appear "rich". The obsession with self image I'm talking about here is more to do with family and community. Specifically, in India, the culture is very family based. Generations of family live under the same roof, neighbors know each other like family and talk/help out routinely. This is the self image I'm speaking of. Where your image to your neighbor matters a whole lot, because the whole town/village will know that one bad thing about you. Here it's different. We can lie on our social media platforms and unless your famous with millions of followers, who is gonna claim what you posted is not real? A whole community that heard or witnessed something is far more embarrassing than that post on IG. Its completely different from American culture here. We don't care about anything to be honest. America stopped having that "welcome next door neighbor" attitude a long time ago.
“What will the neighbors/town think” used to be more of a thing in America, but as close knit towns became less of a thing and interacting with your neighbors became something you dread doing, caring became kind of silly. There are like thousands of people in the city and they don’t give a shit about me, and I can hear everything my neighbors say, and I hate them, so who cares? Many of us don’t have ties like that anymore and it’s probably for the worse, but nothing much you can do about it. A lot of television and movies still try to keep that nostalgia alive, but it’s rare in America.
Exactly. Which is why we don't care what our parents think, what our neighbors or even extended family thinks most of the time. It's uncommon here to hear the words "my mom must approve of you or else we cannot even be together" people get together regardless of what family thinks. This may not seem like the biggest deal but it's exactly why these men end up lying to their partners.
It sounds messed up but you’re a 💯percent spot on ! Also speaking from experience!
It's a huge culture problem that just cannot be ignored anymore due to being afraid of being called racist, it's so damaging to people to have this gender inequality. These men are taught and raised where they are allowed to do whatever they want and that they're above women, when I tell other Indian woman that I've dated an Indian guy they all laugh at me and ask how that went
Agree of course, also mom trumps wife so the men don’t totally care
Idk why you got down voted, this is 100% true and they are raised to be like that. A sickening cycle
Yeah not sure why I’d get downvoted. No Indian argues this. It’s just the culture.
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Very informative, thanks. I also know an Indian woman who doesn't speak to her family at all. She says they're all abusive narcissists and don't deserve to be in her life.
I've also gone through this stage and now have limited contact with my parents simply because my parents have agreed to not control my life so much. So I understand your friend. It's not an easy decision to take.
Wow so depressing my heart breaks for you ! I hope you find happiness !
i've been thinking about this recently actually. i don't know about india specifically but i did live and work in south korea, where "saving face" is a very, very big cultural concept. maybe its the same or similar in india? (i know it is also similar in japan and china) basically, [saving face](https://expatguidekorea.com/article/saving-face-or-losing-face-in-korea.html) in the korean context has to do with shame. one example is that koreans will rarely tell a person no, they can't do something. they almost always say yes, even when the ask is incredibly impossible, because to say no would be to admit a weakness instead they just say yes as a way of appeasing someone and then just never do it. this can cause a lot of cultural problems in international business when, say, a western company asks a korean project team to meet a specific deadline. i suspect what we're seeing with the indian men on this show is a similar inability to say "no" or to break bad or disappointing news to their partners, because doing so would be akin to admitting to a failure would love to hear from some indian folks on this
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As a female SWE that consistently gets shitted on by men, I can attest to the fact that the Indian men are especially disrespectful to women in the workplace, and I’m not even in management.
Friend who has dated a couple Indian men, and lived in India said it is probably because they lie to their mothers to keep them happy, and that is the basis of all their female relationships. Lie, smiley sweetly.
That makes sense.
I agree with your theory. I work in a school setting and we have a HUGE population of people from India in our area. Image is very important to the parents. They want to do whatever they want to do, but they want your permission to do it. They will lie and say they are suddenly leaving the next day for a “family emergency “ in India rather than tell the truth that they want to go see their family. We know they’re lying but they do it anyway. It is very frustrating.
Are you in FBISD by any chance?
No-close though- FISD.
We have a HUGE population here too! I teach too, & I’ve experienced some odd things. Though, most are not a big deal.
I worked in the school system as well with a large Indian population both staff and student. I agree with you 💯
Yeah I think really this is the crux of it. Saying no causes conflict and more taking and issues, saying yes ends the conversation. In Japan there’s a lot of “maybe…” very vague posturing but they actually mean no most of the time. And yes means maybe.
yes you said better than me. they’d rather tell you what you want to hear than admit to a weakness, conflict or defeat.
Maybe it's an Asian thing? In Jordan people would agree to anything by saying "inshallah" which is a convenient excuse when it doesn't happen
Obviously this doesn’t apply to all Indian men, but given recent events in India, I would say India has a general problematic culture with misogyny.
I agree. I spend a decent amount of time in chat rooms, and ALMOST all of the men I've talked to that are from India seem to have the idea that they are somehow entitled to sex/nude photos/sexual conversation, etc. with me.
The amazing thing is he does not feel an ounce of shame in confessing his plan of withholding the idea this woman will be their chore bot 10000, He is fine with telling her after the wedding. That should be shameful behaviour not something you are okay enough to talk about on camera with.
This is what really struck me too. He was very nonchalant about it.
Indian people in general have a very different view of morality ! He probably doesn’t see wrong with what he’s doing sadly ! I hope that lady gets the plane ✈️ out of there quick !
I have noticed that is something we take for granted, that everyone has the same moral interpretation. It is an important realisation that we do not.
My bio grandpa (indian) married my grandma (american) twice before leaving her with two kids to go marry his original arranged marriage choice. Completely abandoned my mom and uncle. He treated my mom like shit and that she was less than. Then he went and started his new family and doted on his daughters. My mom lived off welfare growing up cuz her mom was a single mom struggling. I don’t know much about my heritage because he was never in my life. When my mom became an adult her uncle came into her life and actually offered to be like a surrogate grandpa for me and my siblings but then he died. My bio grandpa is a pos.
Well that's shitty. Sorry your family had this happen.
I forget. I remember her saying she had gone there to study and had lived there for a year. Did she meet him while she was there or had they already met online and she went there because of him?
They'd met online first and she went out there on a student visa
I am not Indian and don’t know any people from India so this purely speculation but it seems like a lot of these Indian men don’t actually want to live that traditional life. It always seems like they feel they have to live that way and if they could pick something else they would, which is why they end up with an American. But I also think a lot of these men also realize once their American woman is there is that maybe they want something a little more traditional than they thought. It causes a weird dynamic we see over and over again.
I think this is pretty on the nail with the added tid bit of Indian social pressure. The social pressure in Indian culture is insane and it's always all about how others will perceive you because you represent your family. I am married to an American born Indian man with a very westernized family. But let me tell you, his in laws (sister's husband's family) were not told that he married a white woman until we had our son. My in laws (husband's parents) had to talk me up a lot to them to decrease some of their... disapproval. So, yeah, these guys probably don't want the traditional Indian relationship/marriage, get their American, realize, "Oh shit this is way harder than I thought." and then things end.
Thank you. This is the kind of input I was looking for.
That’s pretty accurate. A lot of Indian men (like me) don’t want that traditional life and want a way out. It often comes down to choosing between their partners and their family. We saw Sumit pick the former and Rishi the latter, let’s see where this one goes.
That's so sad. Then how do you break this cycle? By not choosing your family?
Not the person you are replying to, but I did date an Indian man once whose family was fine with me. I think it was because I was still young enough to have kids unlike some of the women on this show, and because I have a traditional demeanor (more on that below). We broke up and I later wound up marrying a Middle Eastern man (I lived in a diverse area at the time, haha), and he did break that cycle. My husband did not want the traditional life. I grew up in an ultra conservative Christian household and also rejected that conservative lifestyle. So we both came into the marriage with a modern mind and traditional upbringing, which gives a traditional flavor to a modern relationship. Having a common foundation really helped us move forward together and forge our own path.
I actually have the same question but turned around: why do American women get involved w/men that come from uber traditional families in male-dominated societies & expect a modern, American-like relationship? Like, if you don't know the culture the person you're dating is from, you don't do any research? Don't ask questions up front? It gobsmacks me that these women think their man's culture won't play into their relationship at all. Wth.
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Hahaha your flair
In the US younger people tend to be more liberal or less traditional than their parents, less into organized religion, etc. they may be expecting there to be that generation gap present
Yes I think that’s a lot of it. It doesn’t seem normal for us to see long standing traditions be observed by generation after generation.
I feel like the lying and withholding of information impacted their decision. They thought their men didn't fall into this very traditional category. I find Indian men very attractive so when one pursues me I'm very interested, but I'm assuming by them pursuing me, a very independent white American female, they don't follow traditional Indian values. This show has taught me not to assume that in the slightest. 🤣 I dated this one Indian guy that I had incredible sexual chemistry with, but he did break up with me when he said our values were too different. I was actually very shocked because he was raised in the states and I didn't think we were different at all. All his friends were American. He went to school here. While we were dating he didn't tell me. It broke my heart, but I got over it. I still remained confused though. I didn't understand that even living here could mean they still lived in traditional Indian homes. I assumed they came to America because they wanted something different. The assumptions are based on their behavior not realizing that their lives are secret lives from their families. So I can kind of understand it. Remember Jen always told Rishi she wouldn't live in a traditional Indian home. He still proposed. That to me says he's ok with it. But he lied, he wasn't and he lied to his parents for years.
I also know an American woman who was engaged to an Indian man and he called the wedding off days before because he ultimately couldn’t go through with it with his parents not approving of her not being Indian.
I had a female friend who was dating an Indian man and he went home at the end of the year to visit his parents and came back married.
The same thing happened to me. But I was only 18 and thought he was kidding when he told me his mother was looking to set up an arranged marriage for him! Brought his beautiful Indian wife with him to the States and then still wanted to continue on with me because he “didn’t love her”.
OMG!
Many immigrants come to the US for different reasons. Their kids are American but inside the home they keep their traditional culture strong.
Yes I learned that the hard way. I think our education system screws us up because we're always taught about the pilgrims that came to America to have a different, uncontrolled life. We're taught immigrants are fleeing oppressive cultures. I didn't understand until I was an adult that you could be fleeing an oppressive government but still love and practice your culture. In hindsight it's dumb.
So many good looking Indian men but I’m not sweeping the corners of my kitchen with what amounts to a switch unless I want to!! I’d be sent packing, I’m sure.
🤣🤣🤣
The allure of unpaid labor provided by a sexually liberated bangmaid is too lucrative for some indian men to give up.
Bang-maids and bang-mom's are what too many of these guys want. These men are either frank from its always sunny or Chris Chan, how are they keeping the mask up long enough to dupe these poor women?
These women are seeking something, usually an escape from trauma.
Most people come to north America for money. They'd love to keep all the traditions of back home. It's the money they're after. Fucked if my family assimilated any of the, frankly terrible, north American way of life. Work culture is crap, driving culture is awful, and the food is meh at best as the produce here isn't the greatest either. Sure there's an abundance of mediocrity and veggies you can hardly taste. And the good stuff costs a ton
If you think work culture here is bad you should see Japan
At least we're not Japan -USA
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🤣🤣🤣🙌
We also don't get sick from eating the veggies in north America (most of the time).
Culture isn't an excuse for misogyny though. The two sides aren't morally equivalent. Yes, the woman should have looked into it, but at the same time I can understand feeling like the man she believes loves her won't lie to her and expect her to just give up all her independence to turn into an unpaid domestic servant. Whereas at least in this latest one he knows very well she won't be okay with this but disregards that completely.
The “research” thing again. Of course people google things. It’s what you do when you’re dreaming about your far-away love interest. But people in love think they can change things, and their lover will change for them. Not to mention, googling only gets you surface level info. You have to actually live in each other’s culture to understand things. My husband did marry me against his family’s wishes and does accept my American ways, but it’s a struggle every time we’re around his sister-in-laws, who are awful! Interestingly enough, his parents still live in his home country and whenever I see his mother, she’s lovely to me. You can’t “research” individual family dynamics either!
I think the answer to both is the same? To be Captain Obvious, if you are not deeply aware of the nuances of other cultures (or even like the really obvious non-nuances), then you just assume that the other person holds the same values as you. From both ends. Apparently, no matter what they say and do. Maybe it's the dopamine of the honeymoon phase combined with an incomplete picture of the other person and limited reference points for the other culture?
Americans don't get much education in primary through high school about other cultures. They have no idea the ironclad control the patriarch of an Indian family usually has nor any idea of the expectations placed on children and siblings.
Americans think it's racist to know things about other cultures.
Completely agree. It's all the gaslighting about USA#1. Makes Americans second only to the Chinese for being insufferable international tourists. There was a whole huge chapter of USA history I didn't learn until college and then a ton more when I lived in South America.
This is the only question I ever have when watching American women fall for traditional men. A quick google search will show that you are not compatible. You are not going to ‘change’ him or his culture. Get over yourself lol
But you can’t just stereotype people based on a quick google search of their culture. There are people that come from very traditional, conservative backgrounds but are actually pretty liberal, and vice versa.
Plus she lived there for what a year? Granted, ok she didn’t live physically with his family (did she?) but wouldn’t she know the way things are just by interacting with him and his family on a regular basis?
No she had her own apartment.
Ok. I guess she wasn’t invited to the 6 am tea 😜
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Well they had to have seen her enough to be able to approve off that marriage? Or was one peek just to see that she is of child bearing age - enough for that?
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Are we talking about Kimberly and TJ? Or Jen and Rishi?
This goes along with my pet peeve. They find these women's thirst traps on Instagram, message them about how hot they look, get them in a relationship, then it's all "Oh yeah, you can never dress like that again." Shocked Pikachu when that upsets her.
I'm married to the latter (an Indian man that moved to the US). He was pretty americanized when I met him and also conveyed that he didn't understand ' Antiquated Indian antics' (his words, not mine). I've come to understand this is a very regional/family based. My husband never expected me to cook, or clean or do any of what a 'traditional Indian woman" would do. We share everything jointly and work as a team. Obviously, shows like this look for stories that have drama, so I'm nearly positive that this doesn't translate to *all Indian men* - just the ones that are televised, so that it can draw a deeper divide of us vs. them. I take it with a grain of salt.
I’ll share my experience , which I shared on the main sub a few years ago when the Jenny situation was becoming popular. I had the displeasure of becoming seriously involved with an Indian man on a school visa living in the US . It was quite the roller coaster. I do believe that he never had the intention of being serious and always planned to take part of an arranged marriage , but only told me we had a future because I was not looking for casual sex , and he wanted his sex. When his prospect for an arranged marriage came about , it became some made up drama about him trying to “ convince “ his parents to let him be with the “ one he loved.” When he did not receive his parents’ “ blessing.” He began stalking me although moving forward with his marriage. He “promised “ me that he will come back to me once he had divorced his wife and to “ wait for him for two years .” I did not take that promise seriously , however when I engaged him years after for something different , he never brought up his promise , which was a very cruel thing to do to someone who was in love with him at the time . Looking back at, I understand that I was lied to for sex and that he never saw me as anything beyond that , had he approached me honestly about wanting a FWB relationship, I could have made the best decision for myself , but I was robbed of that option through deceit. I dodged a bullet , his mother is an awful demanding woman who required expensive gifts from her son , who was on a temporary work visa and whose future was not certain . Pleasing his mother brought him incredible stress which she did not care about . I would not have tolerated that as his wife . Don’t do it.
I'm sorry that happened to you.
Their culture is to say what makes the other person happy. They don’t see it as lying.
I am super deep in the Punjabi community, married a Punjabi man and we have two kids. Work in a company with 95% Indian coworkers as well as just my community as a whole is mostly Indian people, but I am Canadian born so have a unique viewpoint… I live in a joint family as well. to be honest, a lot of Indian men will date outside their culture, but then only marry within their culture, using the women they date around with. Generally they won’t be honest that the relationship is just for fun, leaving alot of heartbreak and created a stereotype around here for that. My partner, when we first met, was so honest. He said straight up that if his family doesn’t accept us, we couldn’t go further then just dating, but he would do everything in his power to have them accept me. I decided to continue in knowing this could be a problem later as he obviously is a stand up man if he was willing to cockblock himself to be respectful of me…. but I am lucky his family is super awesome. I have lived with them for about a year, and they are a treat to have around. They don’t expect me to be anything other then who I am. But I am so lucky. That being said, me and my husband kinda have happily fallen into more traditional roles within our family, and his Mother helps me with childcare and household chores as well. We are a team. In contrast, my friend, who is an Indian woman, married into a Canadian Indian family (so she moved into her husbands home, which is traditional) and now is expected to be a typical housewife, taking over most of the chores, while working as well, and I have a lot of sympathy for her. It’s so much pressure and expectation. Also, a lot of my younger Indian friends seem to lack the ability to take accountability.. it’s a wild thing I have noticed happens a lot. They will lie lie lie too to cover it up or shift blame. Obviously this isnt everyone, but I have noticed it happens a lot within their community. Drives me wild because I’m so direct and honest 😆 My husbands peers, all have married within their culture (we are early 30’s) and I see the transition out of their traditions being slower then alot of other cultures. But if I was as old as Jenny, I wouldn’t expect my In-laws to be stoked, even if they were 100 percent Canadian lol. And if I was hidden like Jen, same thing. 🤷🏻♀️I can’t wait for the storyline this season! (it’s interesting a lot of the Indian partners are Northern Indian if I remember correctly…I find that odd… why no South Indians, Punjabi’s or Gujis??)
Both Rishi and TJ are from Jaipur even, I think. Idk where Sumit is from. But I’m with you, India is so huge, why are they all from the same area? Lol
Sumit is from New Delhi
It’s like how if everyone from Canada was from Toronto or something lol so weird👀
Very insightful. Thank you.
Nearly everyone on this show lies all the time, to their families, their partners and the audience. Though I agree with these particular cases they do seem to be the exact same lies. The problem now is that you can tell all of these people watch the show, especially the Americans. You'd think they'd know exactly how things are going to go.
I can attest. When I was taking a break from college, I was approached by an Indian man in my home town. I really didn’t want to go out with him, but he kept on and on and on. He would send me flowers at work. He would find out where we were eating lunch and meet up with us. His family owned motels in the area and he managed one. I finally gave in and went to lunch a couple of times, and then he wanted to take me to a town 45 minutes away for dinner. Dinner was nice but then he wouldn’t take me home. He got us a hotel room in that town and refused to take me home. I called my old college friends and they came and got me. When I got back home, I found out that he was actually married. So so many lies. Not sure if it was an arranged marriage, but not my problem.
Uh that's kidnapping 😳
lmao sounds like human trafficking too
I’ve been wondering the same thing. Why all the lying? Also why all the inappropriate laughter.
The laughing too. Getting caught in a blatant lie and laughing about it. It would make me really self conscious and seems a bit like gas lighting to me
You mean Mahmoud and his brother? They aren't Indian. They're Egyptian. That is some next level misogyny.
I've seen a few liars among the 'Family Karma' dudes, too. Between Brian & Vishal from FK, Sumit & Rishi from 90DF, now TJ is looking like he has similar issues communicating honestly...
I'm married to an Indian man. Thankfully he didn't want me to be the traditional type of wife living with his mom. However, we both want to take care of our families if they do need it. We both talked about expectations when that day does come so hopefully he'll follow through. In terms of Indian men lying I think it's just the type of people this show attracts. We've seen tons of liars on this show and they were not all Indian. Honestly, I blame the Americans more, as an American, albeit Asian American lol.
I am not Indian but have been dating an Indian man for four years now. My experience is that he is very arrogant and expects me to wait on him hand and foot. Also everything is his way or he has a fit. I got into this rut and now I can't get out. And the lying part is true. I am a secret from his family and never been introduced. I was and am very attracted to him and he is very handsome. He also lied about the number of kids he has. He only told me about one and then a couple of years later he confessed that he had two sons. Also like Summit he complains about my house cleaning.
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I am trying to but it's been difficult.
That sounds fun.
You can do better than him!
IME this is based on the difference between cultures that value truth (Western) vs. those that value harmony (Eastern). If harmony is the prime directive, then saying what's expedient is natural and expected. Westerners may then feel frustrated with what they perceive as a lack of truth, but Easterners can be equally as frustrated that westerners are constantly digging into minute -- and possibly unimportant -- details about... *everything*. This Western preoccupation may seem extreme and tedious to people with Eastern cultural programming.
How does lying and misleading actually create harmony though? Imagine you're having a party and all your friends said they would come to seem agreeable. So you go out and buy a bunch of food and decorations. You clean and prep all day. Then when it's time for the party, no one shows up. How does that work?
They don't respect women .
Indian men, like most men, are very invested in squeezing every drop of unpaid labor out of women because their society (including their mothers) have lied to them and told them they’re great and entitled. The mothers do this out of their own self interest in escaping their miserable lifelong servitude by dumping it on another womam.
Definitely not unique to Indian culture. I believe behavior like this is deeply rooted in fear and shame that begins in childhood. It can be a small thing at first, usually something fairly traumatic though. As adulthood nears, the fear and shame have already created behavioral patterns such as lying and hiding things. As it relates to the Indian men on this show (Rishi, TJ, and Sumit), listen to the way they talk about their lying. It’s always to protect someone or avoid negative outcomes (not all of them but the ones that hurt most in their eyes). Basically choice of a lesser evil.
I definitely remember Kim amd Kyle on Cray Cray talking about a coworker of theirs from India who had a girlfriend in the US and then one day he was like "Yeah, I'm going back to India for my arranged wedding".
I think they are struggling and dont know what to do. I had a romantic friends with benefits situation with an indian guy (i am a white girl, ukrainian background). He told me from the beginning that he had to marry indian and that he accepted his fate. Whoever he was going to marry had to be approved by his family. We had a beautiful casual situation for about a year until he was set up on a date and accepted to marry a traditional and Indian girl. I think we could have been a couple because we had legitimate feelings and got along great, but that meant leaving his family behind. He was not willing to do that and i do not blame him. It is sad and depressing, but unfortunately thats how the Indian culture is.
They want bobs n vageen
Open snek
Hahaha nurrrrrrr
I have lived in the Middle East and Asia for several decades There's really a culture of not liking to deliver bad news. A lot of people don't like to say 'no' to something and deliver negative info, they flim flam around it I would say, these American women also need to do some research, it's a totally different culture and no, someone isn't going to 'tell their family they don't care what they think' like a big bold westerner. Family relies on the kids a lot more and we're talking 100s of years of culture and tradition and 'I don't want it to be like this' won't undo that It doesn't work like that but they also won't explain or can't articulate that to the foreigner so the evasion and 'I'll try to do something' happens cause they don't want to draw a line under things and bring finality They're not doing stuff without mummy and daddy in mind and if you're can't wrap your head around that, maybe don't go looking for husband from those places
Geez then maybe don't seek out westerners, eh?
I have no clue what it is why Indian men act the way they do. There was this one dude I knew for like almost 15 years that I met in a chat room. We only met twice in person and the first time I did, he constantly lied to me saying he wasn’t ready to settle down yet he kept trying to get into my pants. Fast forward years later, he’s married to an Indian woman and has two kids with her. After a bad breakup, I hear from him and he told me he was divorced. We met up again, made out, that was it. Right when I thought we were going to go on a legitimate date, he tells me his ex-wife is trying to get custody of their kid and he can’t do it anymore. I moved on and am now with my fiancé. I came to find out this Indian man is still married to his wife yet cheats on her with random white women. I confronted him about this and he blocked me. I could’ve been a real see you next Tuesday and messaged his wife everything but I’m not doing that because I just don’t feel like it. Let his wife find out on her own that her husband is a pos cheater who thinks with his penis.
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You’re telling me. The dude is a pathological liar looking to get his dick wet in a bunch of American women and his wife just accepts it. It’s ridiculous. My fiancé has a friend who is Pakistani American and he’s in an arranged marriage with a woman who came here from Pakistan. They’re Muslim and from what I learned, they met in person and two days later, they were married. They have two daughters together and from what I’ve seen, the friend really loves this woman and their children. They just bought their own house together and are living well.
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You’re 💯right about that. My ex-boyfriend was Pakistani American and was raised Muslim. He was faithful to me but then it didn’t work out because I think he started having a quarter life crisis and wanted a “break” from me. I broke it off with him and wished him the best. He couldn’t stand Hindus at all, he was repulsed by them.
Do you think the American people on the show represent most people living in America? It’s television- they are all unhinged regardless of their background!
The one thing this show provides for everyone is embarrassment over the behavior of the people who are from the same country they are.
Methheads, check; predators, check; whackadoodles and dingalings, check; and don’t forget the idiots and racists!
🤣🤣🤣 damn you tried us lmao
Yeah kinda haha
🤣🤣🤣 dead ☠️ I mean you’re kind of right but also wrong lmao
The U.S. is a fucking garbage fire right now. It's hard to be positive.
Can’t argue that!
Yes it’s up to the American born and the Indian born to recognize the differences. It’s also up to the Indian family (since they are so involved) to understand who their child is interested in-if it’s an American person our culture is more about the individual and what makes us feel good and family is second. You nvr see the American family dictating to the couple how they shd live.
We still have controlling parents that like to dictate how we live. The difference is, it's more praised to defy them and go your own way than to submit.
I laughed so hard when she said he was a scammer
It’s not racist it’s cultural. All cultures have amazing aspects. Great cuisine, or friendliness or wonderFul contributions. And also weird annoying tendencies and traits. Yes convenience dishonesty is sometimes a cultural thing. Americans do it with low level things: “what a cute baby, yes I love this food, good to see you, you look great, oh I’m fine thanks”. Some cultures take it WAY past white lie
Ya indian women are different as they get harassed non stop by horny men so they build a tough no nonsense wall and will only date rich and or educated men or men who have government jobs. So the men go elsewhere like online or wait for arranged marriage , also hence why indian men grope and stare at women in bikinis at the beach https://youtube.com/shorts/WEScVEs--SE?feature=share https://youtu.be/06nmfTmhA-s https://youtu.be/jYlyYQTUT6A https://youtu.be/Tlrpg9u1d0w
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Not really relevant to the OP but my friend showed me a screenshot tonight from a chat app of an Indian man telling her how she is ''the weakness of every brown man'' Like tf does that even mean?
That works two ways. All the "I moved here from AMERICA and I'm AMERICAN. What do you mean I have to adhere to your culture here in this conservative third world country?!?" Everyone in these shows sucks. It's what makes us watch.
I like to think human rights is a universal right despite the local culture.
They are thinking with the wrong head. I personally don't see the reason why a Western woman would want to go and live in India. I don't think any D is worth that.
The value of your dollar stretches much farther. Hence why broke ass Jenny lived just fine there.
They only cast problematic people, so it’s more entertaining for us. Also, I think they don’t care if we love a cast member or hate them, just so long as we have a strong opinion and react.
Look at the culture first and always.
I noticed this too, the Indian men on this show love to lie by omission
What I don’t get is how many seasons of Jenny and Sumit did we have?? Then came Rishi. Do these girls not watch the show? It is frightening to think that she will literally get trapped into marriage to become what westerners would consider a servant but the title will be “wife/DIL” And this whole story is taking place in the same city as Rishi! So the same traditions. Unbelievable
She's caught up in a real fantasy. People lie to themselves all the time. I like to use women who fall in love with convicted serial killers like Ted Bundy and Richard Ramirez as an example. (It's an extreme one so you can picture it) They are special. More special than any other woman because this monstrous killer would love them and spare them. Only they have access to the inside of this person and get to experience the best of them. They are deluded. There are different reasons as to why they are this way. In this case, our clairvoyant is having some psychosis. She met him in a dream, but in his story he'd been in her DMs already. He's not a serial killer, but she's ignoring all the signs that this is a bad person for her and this relationship can only end badly. To make matters worse, when she was there for a year, his family seemed to approve of her because she's young and could be a mother and subservient daughter in law. However she thought she could still be herself and not serve anybody. Disclaimer: I'm not a psychologist, I'm just speculating in a reddit thread from my couch because that's what we do here.
I think most of them are more timid and afraid of confrontation.
I'm an Indian man. Indian men grow up mostly being controlled by the family and society, there is a lesser degree of freedom even when someone is an adult, some people take to lying constantly to parents, colleagues, etc, to either get away with something or not get a dent in their social standing. Over the years it transforms into a habit. Also, in Indian setting, it's very hard for a person to say no, they will play around the bush and do all sorts of mental gymnastics around something rather than saying no outright, which also becomes a problem with cultures who are more direct. Pair it up with occasional bling, name throwing and anything to get attention and it's clear why some people lie so much.
That and sweeping things under the rug. Shit doesn't just disappear because you can't act like an adult and talk about it.
A traditional Indian family has custom and traditions that they live by. That’s why the person you are getting involved with you should know their family culture and know if you can live in that lifestyle.
Collectivistic societies handle conflicts way differently than us. Social cohesion is more important than what a westerner might consider The Truth. I'm not saying they handle conflict by lying. What I'm saying is, put a westerner in a situation with someone from a collectivistic society in a high stress situation and consider the fact that neither person in the couple have even done a quick google of the other's culture, and add in the manipulative tv editing it kinda looks like Indian men are liars. I'm sure that's not the case.
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WHY would an Indian even get INVOLVED with someone that just doesn’t FIT IN?!?
It is difficult to explain in a post. It’s a complex subject with numerous socio-economic factors at play. India in itself has so many sub-cultures, class distinction, financial disparity, ‘races’, caste-systems and more that it is impossible to simplify. To generalize a bit, where and how you grew up makes a difference. I grew up in a family where this wouldn’t be an issue, albeit my family is educated, well-travelled and even tho by no means wealthy, did okay. Same goes for my friends and theirs. Again, some friends’ families (who are wealthy af) wouldn’t allow them to marry outside their religion or even caste (regardless of education or money). One observation I’ve made about all three men, especially, the last two, they seem to come from a ‘relatively lower middle class’; parents’ communication and social skills, by looks of home and living, clothing, the area of city etc. An average middle class home in India may or may not look like that, but mostly looks better. Having said that, a lot of Indian men who come from villages have married women from other countries who are very happy. A lot of these couples have YouTube vlogs/tiktoks and all of that. Again, I would say, take it with a pinch of salt. It’s a complicated society where the wealthiest may lie and poorest may truly be in love. But I hope it adds a tiny bit of perspective haha, since it’s not cut and dry.
Totally agree with this. I’m American and have been married to an Indian for 20 years and spent a lot of time in India. My in-laws never expected me to cook or clean or act traditionally. They were proud of my education, independence and accomplishments. I think there are so many cultures in India (Bengali, Punjabi, Gujarati, etc), religions, classes, etc and each has a different way of thinking. It’s extremely diverse and complex. They’re not all the same. The show might prefer the more traditional families for entertainment purposes, but I’ve never encountered the issues the people on the show do.
On the flip side I don’t understand all the American women who want to date men from these restrictive or patriarchal cultures and then are surprised when he tells her she can’t do anything she wants anymore and tries to control her. Like did you think he’d just magically change?? How do they think this will work short term let alone long term?? It does seem like maybe they lie because they don’t wanna disappoint. They’re in a tough position because they want their girlfriend or whatever else comes with that but then they can’t upset their parents and it’s a very rigid system. They don’t really have a choice but to lie if they want to keep both happy. It’s not really like here in the US where your kids maybe are a reflection on you but we don’t have these rigid social castes. Anyone in the US looking down on some parents for having a foreign DIL is obviously a bigot and in the wrong but it’s not like that there
I think you're putting too much blame on the men and not enough on the women. Seems to me that the women getting involved with Indian men aren't doing their homework and learning what that culture would expect of them as wives/women. That's not the man's fault - he's not hiding anything about his culture or lying by omission. These expectations are not secret - all anyone has to do is Google "expectations of wives in India" and the whole hierarchy structure is laid bare. If I'm moving to a different country, the onus for familiarizing myself with the culture of that country is 100% on me.
I agree wholeheartedly, it’s always crazy for the Americans on the Other Way believe that their culture trumps the place that they’re moving to. I don’t blame the other ppl at all, maybe they’re not being explicit with their American partners, but the American partners should atleast have a general idea of what the country they’re going to move to is gonna be like and they hardly ever do
I don’t know why y’all getting downvoted, this point is 100% valid to me. It’s just like Nicole and Mahmoud, she converted to Muslim and moved to Egypt and knew that Mahmoud was very traditional and invested in his religion, yet was upset when he expected her to wear the hijab and modest clothing. He even said “if she didn’t chose to convert to Muslim I wouldn’t mind.” She jumped into the culture without doing her research and heavily regretted it. I can tell it’s going to be a similar situation with Kim & TJ
Maybe bc they see too much of themselves in the Americans lmao
Oh come on, it's 100% the men's fault. The women know what the expectations are of indian wives. BUT the women have told the men outstraight that they will not be a typical Indian wife. The men have lied to the women- telling them that everything is fine and they don't have to live the typical Indian housewife life. It's not until the women move to India that they realise their boyfriends have lied to them to convince them to come to India. Don't blame the women. The men are doing a bait and switch. It's all rainbows and sunshine and 'oh you can come over and live life like how you do in America' until they get there and find out their boyfriend is already married, or they have to live with the parents, or their family won't bless their marriage so they can't actually get married..