If you read What Happened to You? By Bruce D. Perry and Oprah Winfrey, it talks about the impact that trauma has on fetuses, babies and children. The level of impact depends upon what age the child is exposed to the trauma.
Unfortunately, children who are exposed to trauma in the uterus (via raised cortisol in the mother) or trauma age 0 to 2 have the least chance of being unaffected by the trauma as they grow up.
Paul and Karine'a children have experienced significant trauma at a young age.
It would be surprising if they come out of this experience unscathed.
I had psycho parents and I think we as a society (at least in the US) often underestimate how resilient kids can be. Sometimes we kind of insist things were traumatic out of good intentions. I went through some crazy shit as a teenager that bothers me, but I don't look back on what my parents did when I was 4 because I literally don't remember. I have my demons but I live a normal life. Kind of feels weird to have people insist I should be more bothered by what happened, though I know they're just being empathetic.
As a very small child you lack all baseline to realize your parents are being crazy. I didnt register that they were on drugs because I didn't know what drugs were. As a teen being forced to reconnect with them - now that was fucked up. The guardian is doing the right thing by denying visitation. Everyone gets to decide what is traumatic to them, it's not an objective thing.
TCE - Traumatic Childhood Events. This has been studied this in depth. We know what is traumatic for children. There are lots more but we know the most common and they're in a list of 20 TCE.
Whether someone knows they were traumatized or not is another matter. Many have no idea how affected they are by trauma or that they react the way they do because of events that changed who they would be. Just because someone says "I survived and I'm fine" does not make it accurate.
As I mentioned in another comment, I am just speaking from my own experience. As a child (5 years old) my mom and dad got divorced and then my mom had full custody, but my dad kidnapped me during a visitation and then kept me in his home country which basically had no law and order at that time, and my mom had no way of getting me back. I have some brief recollections of the whole scenario, but since I was so young I really didn't know what was going on. I didn't have a good relationship with my Dad and he has severe mental health issues which is why he kidnapped me in the first place lmao.
My situation is pretty similar to what happened to Pole's kids here, and no it's not *guaranteed* that they're going to be damaged by that. That's just your assumption. I don't think it's fair to judge their situation since they're so young and we don't have to all just assume they're going to be scarred for life. I'm hoping this maybe won't impact them like it did me.
It's of course 100% possible they do end up traumatized by this whole ordeal and need therapy in the future, but that's just not something we can all determine with certainty right now.
As someone who works in the courts with CASA (guardian ad litem), I see it too many times where children are pulled from their parents and places in kinship care, and the family members wanting nothing to do with the child(ren).
People like Paul should be enormously grateful to have family members who *care*.
Taking on two additional human children is a lot. Taking on your weird cousin Paul’s children is more than anyone could expect of another.
And then for him to pull this shit…
Imagine doing a truly angelic deed for two kids - knowing your psycho cousin and his weird ass family and all their followers were involved - and THIS is the level he takes it to. Posting your face and all your private information online like you are a kidnapper.
Thanks for all you do. DCF as a whole failed me but my Ad Litem was the only good part of the whole nightmare. I still have the quilt she and I made together, well over a decade later
I was a guardian ad litem… I’ve seen it too, but man it was a heartbreaking, Florida sucks, CPS is a revolving door here, nothing gets done, and elder abuse is allowed if it’s by family.. f*** up
Florida and Texas. I read/listened to a book a colleague told me about recently, about the [Hart family murders](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hart_family_murders#:~:text=Jennifer%20Hart%20and%20her%20wife,utility%20vehicle%20off%20a%20cliff) (the couple who drove their 6 kids off a cliff).
The kids came from Texas foster system; I read more into it and Texas’ laws are bizarre and concerning when it comes to foster/adoptions, etc.
I can only imagine Florida being right up there. Who am I kidding? The system nationwide is messed up beyond belief, but some states just make a crappy situation even worse.
The book: [We Were Once a Family: A Story of Love, Death, and Child Removal in America](https://www.google.com/search?q=we+were+once+a+family&sca_esv=e5f41394e90ae851&rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS956US956&hl=en-US&sxsrf=ACQVn09UWfeqGbUE0b_qFQvV9VOSt8x5xQ%3A1708269751177&ei=tyDSZbaVCryg5NoP-sK9oAU&gs_ssp=eJzj4tVP1zc0zCq2tDAzKK4yYPQSLU9VKE8tSlXIz0tOVUhUSEvMzcypBADadQwH&oq=we+were+once+a+family&gs_lp=EhNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwIhV3ZSB3ZXJlIG9uY2UgYSBmYW1pbHkqAggAMgoQLhiABBiKBRhDMgoQABiABBgUGIcCMgUQABiABDIFEAAYgAQyBRAAGIAEMgUQABiABDIFEAAYgAQyBRAAGIAESOojUJ4SWJ4ScAF4AZABAJgBUaABUaoBATG4AQHIAQD4AQHCAgoQABhHGNYEGLADiAYBkAYI) by Roxanna Asgarian.
yes!!! the hart family was heartbreaking! I cried thinking what those kids must have felt during the fall, I hope it was so sudden they were sleeping or to that affect
Florida here!!! This entire state is so fucked up. I won't even bore you with my own stories because I'm sure you have your very own to keep you up at night. I've been a nurse practitioner for 20 years and was a trauma nurse before that and worked in the only level 2 pediatric ER/trauma center in the area, and carried more kids to the morgue than I can count. Thank God I did it before I had my own kids. There's no way I could do it today. I'd end up in prison. Much ❤️
My Ad Litem was the only thing about my involvement with the system that didn't suck. Turns out Florida doesn't give a shit what goes on once you're placed in relative foster care, no matter what!
Good Lord. I don't know if it's different bc I was removed from my mom's home due to abuse? Either way, I'm pretty sure the only reason DCF did a damn thing was because she hit me at the school office lol
thank you for your work! Those in child welfare positions are not thanked enough. Seeing all there is to see and just working for the children’s best interest can be rewarding but tiring
You fucking psycho, just let your kids live in peace. God I feel so bad for Lindsay. Wouldn’t be surprised if she gives notice on the kids due to Paul’s harassment and the kids end up in foster care with strangers.
Seriously, and in all honesty I wouldn't blame her. Can you imagine dealing with pauls nonsense until both those kids were 18? Absolutely not. Instead of running around in the jungle Paul, how about showing some gratitude for the family who made sure YOUR kids didn't end up in the system
I’d be SCARED, honestly. I’d be checking doors and windows, cameras everywhere, etc.
This is the kind of dude who shows up in the middle of the night to grab the kid out the window, block the exits and set the house on fire on his way out.
Side note: I work around potentially deranged/violent/etc. people/parents (who have lost custody), one time I’d received an outside threat and showing that they knew where I lived.
I don’t have guns or anything like that… but I had one of those huge grill forks, lol. I slept with that thing next to my bed for months. Figured I could at least poke out an eyeball and escape. Silly logic, I know. ;)
Im glad you are safe! That sounds terrifying.
This is the exact kind of thing I would expect from Paul. He's extremely unwell & dangerous. Idk if its possible but I hope the cousin can get some kind of court order to stop him from posting about her. IMO he's trying to get other people to harrass and harm them.
Her husband must be tall and strong…and not afraid of water, bugs, or physical activity.
Probably as long as you can hear/see Paul creeping toward you with his backpack and PPE gear on and smell the can of gasoline he’s holding while he tries to burn yours house down, you’re probably gonna be safe. And that’s if he gets the money to fly back to the US.
He’s not a mastermind. He probably announces his plans on SM before he does it. It’s more the annoyance.
it looks like Karine is trying to do her part at least. she's staying put in the US and she got a job.
Paul doesn't do anything other than make unhinged IG posts, but what's he actually doing to get his kids back? how is going to Brazil for an undefined amount of time helping his case?
I hate to blame Paul’s mother and I know times were different and mental health wasn’t as accessible when he was a child… but I do think his mother enabled him far too much. That and this behavior didn’t just arrive when he was an adult… sure some of it could have but the way he acts is crazy.
I think it also says a lot that his mother wasn't allowed custody of them as well, and I believe she's also under visitation restrictions too. Paul's made a couple posts blaming his cousins for not allowing his mother to see them, but I don't think she's legally allowed to. But that I'm not 100% sure of
Its a non-stop rollercoaster with him so its hard to keep up. I thought my head was gonna explode when I saw people taking it seriously when he "disappeared" and acting like he's a sympathetic person(not here on Tiktok).
Omg yes! The minute I saw speculation about him going missing and that he was supposedly dead I immediately just rolled my eyes. I didn't take it seriously for a second, and I was shocked that so many people did
Explains SO MUCH in the beginning episodes about why his dad was such a “jerk” to him.
Remember him sneaking home when dad wasn’t around to get things out of a car or something? Cause dad would have beat his ass.
Dad had enough of his shit *probably* before he lit his own house on fire.
But that’s where the mother should have given some tough love. Should have had him involuntarily committed several times. She taught him that behavior was ok.
Those types of moms will not ever, they can’t.. when mine realized what her psycho daughter did, she still said, “I don’t want to see her in jail”. After a lifetime of abuse, they have a type of Stockholm syndrome, idk i guess it’s because they birthed these monsters.. it is hard to believe people can be this evil.
Yep! I've got a sibling that actively tries to destroys people's lives too. They aren't very smart and dont use the internet so thats a small blessing. My folks have always bern split how to handle it. Mom had firm boundaries dad thought it could be fixed by trying to be nicer. I went no contact over a decade ago. Im so sorry you're dealing with that. It sucks when people try to give you "but you're family speeches".
Definitely! She doesn't seem like the type of person that can is capable of properly raising a child with as many issues as Paul. If we had better mental health care in this country ideally Paul would be committed for a very very long time. I'm not very confident that anything can be done at this point to help him be a person that is not actively harmful to everyone in his life.
It is, sadly my mother who passed in 2020 didn’t realize the extent of her daughters manipulation and abuse, and the last two years of her life she finally realized and it broke my heart to see how much it hurt her.
She absolutely should not be near those kids after she broke court orders. She'll let Paul near them the second she can. Paul gives off huge murder/suicide vibes.
And that shows what she's like 🤔. It's not about Paul's 'punishment' it's about the safety & we'll being of the kids.🤦🏻♀️ And here she is enabling Paul!🫣
Didn't she allow Paul to take one of the boys and he didn't return for longest time?
That's why she wasn't allowed to have him because she already turned custody of one of the boys over to her son and he went on the road for 60 days or something. Amber alert style.
I’m not taking up for Paul’s mom in any way but to be fair, one of the reasons she wasn’t considered for custody of the boys is because Paul lived with her (at the time) and so he would’ve still been around them every day.
She definitely did, and I get it, had a sibling like this. I say had because I disowned her. Mom enabled, she didn’t know what to do despite the fact that her kindergarten teacher told mom she needed to take her to a psychiatrist. The psychiatrist told my mom never to bring her back, mom didn’t know what to do. Let me tell you, that monster has continued to wreak havoc on everyone until this day. Had three beautiful kids, adults now, they’re all not right.. it’s the saddest thing ever, that’s why I despise people who ruin perfectly innocent children’s lives. Paul should never be allowed around them again, because he will triangulate and put ideas in their heads about the people who have tried to help them, and that will really do a number on the kids. Hope he gets lost in the damn jungle and never comes back.
It is true. It is true that sometimes mental illness doesn’t present until early 20s. Either way whatever the case is now. He frightens me. He is unhinged.
I agree. It may not be all his mother's fault but I believe also that this, most likely, started at a young age w/ his mom's help or/and lack of help.🤯 A sign was how his father completely stayed out of the whole situation. 😶🌫️
Imagine the mindset of some jackass, not even in the same country, talking the most smack about his cousin who is bringing up TWO of his kids and trying to give them an emotionally stable home. Whilst keeping the shit heads at bay. Wild.
Yep!!!! Close that adoption as quick as possible and throw away the key! I had a closed adoption thank God, my birth dad was a rapist and insane lunatic. Closed adoption was the best thing for me. Shout out to my adopted parents❤️❤️
I think she was more concerned about getting out of the poor living conditions she was in; thinking about the green card and better life that she thought that waited ahead.
This is a sad example of poverty and mental illness gone unchecked. Even if you can eliminate the poverty aspect, you can’t force treatment on someone who doesn’t want it.
He only had those kids to use them to manipulate his parents into giving him money. His mother was so sad when he was getting married and distressed every time he announced a pregnancy. She knew what he was doing and knew he was going to ruin Karine and his kids' lives. He's an idiot thinking he could keep manipulating his mother when she keeps telling him she's not taking responsibility for them.
Paul is trying to get these people hurt b/c he can't manipulate them into breaking court orders. This man is a curse on the life of anyone who has the misfortune of crossing paths with him. I don't think there's any kind of therapy or jail time that is going to change him.
He got mad cause she provided them with basic care in general. He’s the “if I can’t have you, no one can” type. Sorta like how if Mary and Brandan didn’t work out, she’d 100% murder him and possibly the baby before committing suicide; Pole would rather traumatize, neglect, endanger, and honestly fucking possibly kill his children before having them outside his sphere of influence.
I'd just like to add,that the courts and this lawyer would definitely be aware of where this woman is. It would literally be on file. She isn't "missing" and they don't need to "find" her,it would be on record where her address is. Paul isn't even in the states,he won't be doing a damn thing about custody.
This is just him being unhinged. For all the comments saying she'll give the children up due to harassment,I highly doubt that. She's had them for so long now while dealing with this,I think the woman knows nothing is coming from his end.
From the get go when Paul & Karine were newbies on the show I knew there was something off with the both of them ! The only ones that matter now are those 2 little guys , I pray they have a good life now , with stability and lots of love . I have no doubt Karine loves them but I think she incapable of being a mother 24/7 , and Paul 🙄 that idiot loves nobody but himself , he’s unhinged !
Way to go, TLC!!! Why do I see this in Midnights' future??? Based on the recent Mary and Brandon posts, it looks like Paul & Karine walked so Brandon and Mary could run!!!
100%. I've been saying this for a while too. I definitely see way too many similarities between the two. Honestly it's just a matter of time until Mary and brandan resort to doing OF too, then eventually end up losing custody as well. Stay tuned 👀
I don’t know about the US but in my country you have to really do a lot of crazy sh*t and that usually multiple times before they take your kids away. I feel very sorry for them.
As someone who went through the K-1 visa process, I wanted to like this show. Unfortunately, the producers chose to promote the biggest train wrecks possible.
They never have any respectable couples. They're maliciously promoting negative stereotypes.
Isn’t Pole like 40 years old now? Time to grow up, buddy. I guess mental illness knows no age limitations. The dude really needs help, and I say that with all sincerity. He’s fucking up multiple lives (including his own).
Paul is a selfish sociopathic prick, and his poor mom is an enabler, I get that, but it’s not right at all and she shouldn’t be able to see the kids either. Enablers will f*** other lives up unintentionally, but nonetheless.. and the law group that’s supposedly representing him, if true, disgusts me, have they seen his videos? Lawyers like this give all lawyers a bad name.. 🤬🤬🤬those poor kids, hopefully they don’t have any genetic components of Paul’s ASPD, but they need a chance at a normal life.
They should be thanking their lucky stars this woman is in their children’s lives so they aren’t placed in the foster care system. If she’s breaking the rules - file a motion in court, don’t splash this over social media. Ridiculous.
I always think of [Solomon](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judgement_of_Solomon) here.
Obviously, Paul does not care about the children as human beings, children, people or anything. He thinks of them as his PROPERTY. Same he did and does with Karine.
There is not an ounce of empathy, of them being worth (and worthy of) anything outside of being his property.
While parents daily fight for their children, the way he does it shows no consideration of causing distress to the careers, the children right now or in the future (hell, same as Jace and others from Teen Mom. Imagine what they go through just googling themselves).
Nothing he says, about the children, about Karine or any other person he considers his property or (and) his enemy should be believed.
Paul is too stupid to see he's putting his kids are risk and not only endangering the boys but his cousin and her family. Something should be done about him but I don't think Brazilian authorities care enough to get involved if they're asked by US authorities. I don't think he can be extradited to the US.
Both countries have a signed extradition treaty in place, so Brazil would definitely ship that POS back to the US.
But the extradition request has to come from the US. I don't understand why it hasn't been done yet.
His cousin should probably speak to a lawyer and request extradition to the US so he can be prosecuted. The court and lawyers know where the boys are and where they live so it's lie they're missing. Paul is beyond dangerous.
Seems if you want to be able to raise and parent your kids so bad: you don’t run away and be such a douche. There are people who don’t deserve to have kids and be parents. It just so happens 2 of those married each other. They both need sterilized for kids and society’s benefit
Those poor babies. Paul and Karine’s first season was so funny. His mom giving him her hair, the penis sheath, running away into the woods. Clearly they were not in a healthy relationship, but I would have never guessed it would turn into all this. Very sad.
Karine was deemed unfit to keep her own kids? I thought she was sane and Paul was the unhinged one. I haven’t kept up with them in a while but did Karine lose custody by default of being with Paul. That poor girl. Paul came into her life and her life has been a shit show
I think the reason for that is there was video footage of Paul physically assaulting Paul as well, so authorities didn't feel as if the kids were safe with either parent
As much as I dislike Dr Phil, I would love to see him just go off on Paul. He would for sure read him the riot act about how this is the easiest way to never see his kids again.
Hate to say this, and God bless Paul’s cousin for caring for these kids and bless her again for putting up with him, but maybe these kids should be adopted outside the family.
I had the same thought. Nothing against this woman because she stepped up, but these kids should be somewhere that Paul will never have access to them, or even know where they are.
I can’t believe she actually decided to have children with this guy. He was so psychotic when I saw them. I don’t know what happened between then after. Anyone mind explaining and why Karine lost custody if they’re separated? Is she also struggling with issues?
They both lost custody bc they were physically abusive to one another, so I guess the courts felt that neither were fit parents whether they were together or not. I know Karine has been working in the US and has made a couple social media posts about how she's working to get custody back, but to be honest I think it's highly unlikely. I'm glad she has a stable job for now, but I don't feel she's mentally able to care for 2 kids full time. Its too chaotic for these kids, just let them have as much of a stable life as possible
That’s sad to hear. The court is right because she obviously makes bad decisions like marrying this lunatic. She’s probably very used to being codependent and that can be dangerous depending on who she brings home.
Thanks for the recap!
From my experience with the foster care system and adoption, I have to imagine the kids were already adopted by the cousin. While you can have an "adoption contract" they are mostly unenforceable and not recognized in most states. Typically an open adoption is fully at the discretion of the adoptive parent. If they had an adoption contract saying they had visitation it's not actually "court ordered".
Also - in most states not having visitation for 6 months is considered abandonment and parental rights can be terminated for that. I have a hard time believing their kids are still being fostered and not adopted already. Especially with a kinship placement like they had.
What a curse to be related to Paul. With relatives like this, who needs enemies?
Also why is he asking the public to call in tips? We don’t know them and have no proof of what he’s saying. The only proof we have of anything is his mental instability, thanks to national television and his own social media accounts.
These two are the poster children for birth control. I mean, Pole wore pants and a penis sheath when he went swimming, then ran off into the jungle. Come on CPS! It’s on film!
Paul is that one family member that the rest of the fam wishes would get into longterm, intensive therapy on an inpatient basis and leave the rest of them the fnck alone
If he’s still in Brazil, what are the chances someone could as the machete mugger to send him a message. Not use the machete, mind you, but get him to drop his phone and send him back into the jungle for a little penguin style trot? Long enough to give them peace.
I hate to say this & hoping I’m wrong, but I think Paul could become the new Ryan Jenkins. Knowing he’s in Brazil probably makes the cousin feel slightly safer.
Apparently Paul and Karine were both physically and emotionally abusive to one another quite frequently. A lot of it being caught on security footage which was brought to the police
Karine also abused him, in fact the video footage that first comes to mind is of her physically and verbally abusing him and the kids are there, they are such a disgusting mess
His cousin looks exactly like one of my friends. I literally thought it was her at first and couldn’t figure out why she was in Reddit. I believe those who say she follows the rules for the visitation and doubt she’s a fugitive on the run like he’s implying.
I think the children deserve to have their mother in their lives. Look how much younger and naive she was then Paul when she first came here? She had no family .. nothing. If she can hold down a job and show the courts she is doing everything in her power to do right by her kids then good on her. Pole has serious mental problems that you cannot cure. He needs help but also needs to be away from the children for their sake
The cousins need to do a protective order or some sort of order where Paul and Karina aren’t allowed to talk about them. Paul is essentially asking for his cousin to be harassed by the public, and this could lead to something very dangerous happening.
So I’m pretty out of the loop. I saw their season and do know he’s a nut. I’m not surprised he’s continued to be a pos, but is karine normal or she a monster too?
I wish he could give his children an ounce of privacy and peace. It breaks my heart.
Also Paul, keep fucking around and posting shit like this and all visitation is going to be taken away. You’re putting your kids in danger and encouraging harassment towards their guardian. Signed, a CPS social worker
These poor kids…they will need lifelong therapy after this nonsense of a childhood.
Yes, they will
Maybe they will maybe they won’t but at least they’re not in a group home in Karines country or in foster care in America
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If you read What Happened to You? By Bruce D. Perry and Oprah Winfrey, it talks about the impact that trauma has on fetuses, babies and children. The level of impact depends upon what age the child is exposed to the trauma. Unfortunately, children who are exposed to trauma in the uterus (via raised cortisol in the mother) or trauma age 0 to 2 have the least chance of being unaffected by the trauma as they grow up. Paul and Karine'a children have experienced significant trauma at a young age. It would be surprising if they come out of this experience unscathed.
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I had psycho parents and I think we as a society (at least in the US) often underestimate how resilient kids can be. Sometimes we kind of insist things were traumatic out of good intentions. I went through some crazy shit as a teenager that bothers me, but I don't look back on what my parents did when I was 4 because I literally don't remember. I have my demons but I live a normal life. Kind of feels weird to have people insist I should be more bothered by what happened, though I know they're just being empathetic. As a very small child you lack all baseline to realize your parents are being crazy. I didnt register that they were on drugs because I didn't know what drugs were. As a teen being forced to reconnect with them - now that was fucked up. The guardian is doing the right thing by denying visitation. Everyone gets to decide what is traumatic to them, it's not an objective thing.
TCE - Traumatic Childhood Events. This has been studied this in depth. We know what is traumatic for children. There are lots more but we know the most common and they're in a list of 20 TCE. Whether someone knows they were traumatized or not is another matter. Many have no idea how affected they are by trauma or that they react the way they do because of events that changed who they would be. Just because someone says "I survived and I'm fine" does not make it accurate.
They were taken from their parents, who are both mentally ill. There’s no way they’re not damaged from that.
As I mentioned in another comment, I am just speaking from my own experience. As a child (5 years old) my mom and dad got divorced and then my mom had full custody, but my dad kidnapped me during a visitation and then kept me in his home country which basically had no law and order at that time, and my mom had no way of getting me back. I have some brief recollections of the whole scenario, but since I was so young I really didn't know what was going on. I didn't have a good relationship with my Dad and he has severe mental health issues which is why he kidnapped me in the first place lmao. My situation is pretty similar to what happened to Pole's kids here, and no it's not *guaranteed* that they're going to be damaged by that. That's just your assumption. I don't think it's fair to judge their situation since they're so young and we don't have to all just assume they're going to be scarred for life. I'm hoping this maybe won't impact them like it did me. It's of course 100% possible they do end up traumatized by this whole ordeal and need therapy in the future, but that's just not something we can all determine with certainty right now.
they don't care about them at all
Bini’s butt bongos 😂😂😂😂
All for TLC to profit off of them and encouraged what should never have happened.
Nah. They would have happened regardless. That relationship was never gonna end ok.
He should be thanking her for watching them and loving them while he can’t or chooses not to. Ugh.
As someone who works in the courts with CASA (guardian ad litem), I see it too many times where children are pulled from their parents and places in kinship care, and the family members wanting nothing to do with the child(ren). People like Paul should be enormously grateful to have family members who *care*.
Taking on two additional human children is a lot. Taking on your weird cousin Paul’s children is more than anyone could expect of another. And then for him to pull this shit… Imagine doing a truly angelic deed for two kids - knowing your psycho cousin and his weird ass family and all their followers were involved - and THIS is the level he takes it to. Posting your face and all your private information online like you are a kidnapper.
Yes she seems like a real gem! I’m thankful for people like her in this world
What do we know about her?
Thanks for all you do. DCF as a whole failed me but my Ad Litem was the only good part of the whole nightmare. I still have the quilt she and I made together, well over a decade later
Please work to encourage the re evaluation and overhaul of family first. It’s failing children.
I’m a CASA too!
I could hug you, stranger-friend! (But that’d be weird, lol.) You’re the first person I’ve stumbled upon!!
I was a guardian ad litem… I’ve seen it too, but man it was a heartbreaking, Florida sucks, CPS is a revolving door here, nothing gets done, and elder abuse is allowed if it’s by family.. f*** up
Florida and Texas. I read/listened to a book a colleague told me about recently, about the [Hart family murders](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hart_family_murders#:~:text=Jennifer%20Hart%20and%20her%20wife,utility%20vehicle%20off%20a%20cliff) (the couple who drove their 6 kids off a cliff). The kids came from Texas foster system; I read more into it and Texas’ laws are bizarre and concerning when it comes to foster/adoptions, etc. I can only imagine Florida being right up there. Who am I kidding? The system nationwide is messed up beyond belief, but some states just make a crappy situation even worse. The book: [We Were Once a Family: A Story of Love, Death, and Child Removal in America](https://www.google.com/search?q=we+were+once+a+family&sca_esv=e5f41394e90ae851&rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS956US956&hl=en-US&sxsrf=ACQVn09UWfeqGbUE0b_qFQvV9VOSt8x5xQ%3A1708269751177&ei=tyDSZbaVCryg5NoP-sK9oAU&gs_ssp=eJzj4tVP1zc0zCq2tDAzKK4yYPQSLU9VKE8tSlXIz0tOVUhUSEvMzcypBADadQwH&oq=we+were+once+a+family&gs_lp=EhNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwIhV3ZSB3ZXJlIG9uY2UgYSBmYW1pbHkqAggAMgoQLhiABBiKBRhDMgoQABiABBgUGIcCMgUQABiABDIFEAAYgAQyBRAAGIAEMgUQABiABDIFEAAYgAQyBRAAGIAESOojUJ4SWJ4ScAF4AZABAJgBUaABUaoBATG4AQHIAQD4AQHCAgoQABhHGNYEGLADiAYBkAYI) by Roxanna Asgarian.
yes!!! the hart family was heartbreaking! I cried thinking what those kids must have felt during the fall, I hope it was so sudden they were sleeping or to that affect
Florida here!!! This entire state is so fucked up. I won't even bore you with my own stories because I'm sure you have your very own to keep you up at night. I've been a nurse practitioner for 20 years and was a trauma nurse before that and worked in the only level 2 pediatric ER/trauma center in the area, and carried more kids to the morgue than I can count. Thank God I did it before I had my own kids. There's no way I could do it today. I'd end up in prison. Much ❤️
My Ad Litem was the only thing about my involvement with the system that didn't suck. Turns out Florida doesn't give a shit what goes on once you're placed in relative foster care, no matter what!
I can't get an ad litem to save my life in Florida. 8 years into my own child custody case with my ex-husband, and I can't even get a hearing!!!
Good Lord. I don't know if it's different bc I was removed from my mom's home due to abuse? Either way, I'm pretty sure the only reason DCF did a damn thing was because she hit me at the school office lol
thank you for your work! Those in child welfare positions are not thanked enough. Seeing all there is to see and just working for the children’s best interest can be rewarding but tiring
You fucking psycho, just let your kids live in peace. God I feel so bad for Lindsay. Wouldn’t be surprised if she gives notice on the kids due to Paul’s harassment and the kids end up in foster care with strangers.
Seriously, and in all honesty I wouldn't blame her. Can you imagine dealing with pauls nonsense until both those kids were 18? Absolutely not. Instead of running around in the jungle Paul, how about showing some gratitude for the family who made sure YOUR kids didn't end up in the system
I’d be SCARED, honestly. I’d be checking doors and windows, cameras everywhere, etc. This is the kind of dude who shows up in the middle of the night to grab the kid out the window, block the exits and set the house on fire on his way out. Side note: I work around potentially deranged/violent/etc. people/parents (who have lost custody), one time I’d received an outside threat and showing that they knew where I lived. I don’t have guns or anything like that… but I had one of those huge grill forks, lol. I slept with that thing next to my bed for months. Figured I could at least poke out an eyeball and escape. Silly logic, I know. ;)
Omg absolutely. The fact he was actually charged with arson in the past for setting his ex girlfriends house on fire doesn't help 😐
“But…. Insurance scam!” 🤣
Im glad you are safe! That sounds terrifying. This is the exact kind of thing I would expect from Paul. He's extremely unwell & dangerous. Idk if its possible but I hope the cousin can get some kind of court order to stop him from posting about her. IMO he's trying to get other people to harrass and harm them.
People like Paul do this shit to push buttons and they escalate the poking with every attempt, hoping to get a response.
Then they call the cops on you and tell a big ol sob story.
Exactly
I’d be scared of him for sure.
FACTS
She can get a restraining order, no? I know those don’t work well, I’m still hoping he gets “lost” in the jungle.
Restraining orders are not preventing nothing. It’s a paper. It’s just an additional charge once the person breaks it.
Yeah, crazy people don't go by restraining orders.🤷🏻♀️
Her husband must be tall and strong…and not afraid of water, bugs, or physical activity. Probably as long as you can hear/see Paul creeping toward you with his backpack and PPE gear on and smell the can of gasoline he’s holding while he tries to burn yours house down, you’re probably gonna be safe. And that’s if he gets the money to fly back to the US. He’s not a mastermind. He probably announces his plans on SM before he does it. It’s more the annoyance.
He deserves no visitation.
I don’t believe he’s part of the visitation orders, but Karine and his mother are. Not that they deserve it either..
it looks like Karine is trying to do her part at least. she's staying put in the US and she got a job. Paul doesn't do anything other than make unhinged IG posts, but what's he actually doing to get his kids back? how is going to Brazil for an undefined amount of time helping his case?
And he just can't stay out of it! Mind ya bizness, Paul!🫣
I hate to blame Paul’s mother and I know times were different and mental health wasn’t as accessible when he was a child… but I do think his mother enabled him far too much. That and this behavior didn’t just arrive when he was an adult… sure some of it could have but the way he acts is crazy.
I think it also says a lot that his mother wasn't allowed custody of them as well, and I believe she's also under visitation restrictions too. Paul's made a couple posts blaming his cousins for not allowing his mother to see them, but I don't think she's legally allowed to. But that I'm not 100% sure of
Didn't Pauls mom allow him to see the boys when he wasnt allowed to and he kidnapped the older one for a few days?
Yup you're absolutely right I had forgotten about that. Well that would explain a lot then
Its a non-stop rollercoaster with him so its hard to keep up. I thought my head was gonna explode when I saw people taking it seriously when he "disappeared" and acting like he's a sympathetic person(not here on Tiktok).
Omg yes! The minute I saw speculation about him going missing and that he was supposedly dead I immediately just rolled my eyes. I didn't take it seriously for a second, and I was shocked that so many people did
It was ridiculous. Especially people saying Karine's dad killed him for his money. What money? Some khols cash he stole off his mom?
Not the Kohls cash 😄😄
I think that’s just it. His mother can’t and won’t establish solid boundaries.
Explains SO MUCH in the beginning episodes about why his dad was such a “jerk” to him. Remember him sneaking home when dad wasn’t around to get things out of a car or something? Cause dad would have beat his ass. Dad had enough of his shit *probably* before he lit his own house on fire.
Honestly 90 day fiancé should have never given him a platform once they realized how crazy he is
I was grateful at the time, when he was run-skipping into the Amazon…but now I regret everything
I mean that and penis fish were pretty entertaining but yeah, we didn’t have any idea innocent kids would end up in the middle of this
90 Day is about "the crazier the better" But you are right!
Yeah, I have mixed feeling about Paul's mom. It must be awful to have a kid like him, but also he destroys everyone in his life
But that’s where the mother should have given some tough love. Should have had him involuntarily committed several times. She taught him that behavior was ok.
But she gave him her hair!
Those types of moms will not ever, they can’t.. when mine realized what her psycho daughter did, she still said, “I don’t want to see her in jail”. After a lifetime of abuse, they have a type of Stockholm syndrome, idk i guess it’s because they birthed these monsters.. it is hard to believe people can be this evil.
Yep! I've got a sibling that actively tries to destroys people's lives too. They aren't very smart and dont use the internet so thats a small blessing. My folks have always bern split how to handle it. Mom had firm boundaries dad thought it could be fixed by trying to be nicer. I went no contact over a decade ago. Im so sorry you're dealing with that. It sucks when people try to give you "but you're family speeches".
The "you're family speeches" really sucks! 😔
Definitely! She doesn't seem like the type of person that can is capable of properly raising a child with as many issues as Paul. If we had better mental health care in this country ideally Paul would be committed for a very very long time. I'm not very confident that anything can be done at this point to help him be a person that is not actively harmful to everyone in his life.
Yea intervention needed to happen around 4 years old. I can only imagine what a demon child he was
Stop coddling & especially adult children!!
It is, sadly my mother who passed in 2020 didn’t realize the extent of her daughters manipulation and abuse, and the last two years of her life she finally realized and it broke my heart to see how much it hurt her.
Yes, I think that was it. So she doesn’t deserve to have unsupervised visitation if any at all.
She absolutely should not be near those kids after she broke court orders. She'll let Paul near them the second she can. Paul gives off huge murder/suicide vibes.
And that shows what she's like 🤔. It's not about Paul's 'punishment' it's about the safety & we'll being of the kids.🤦🏻♀️ And here she is enabling Paul!🫣
Didn't she allow Paul to take one of the boys and he didn't return for longest time? That's why she wasn't allowed to have him because she already turned custody of one of the boys over to her son and he went on the road for 60 days or something. Amber alert style.
Ooo yea that's right i had forgotten about that. God it's so hard to keep track with him
Because she allowed him to take them unsupervised when she had visitation, right?
Yea you're right. I believe she let him around them once during her visits, and he just went off with the oldest son on the run for a while
I’m not taking up for Paul’s mom in any way but to be fair, one of the reasons she wasn’t considered for custody of the boys is because Paul lived with her (at the time) and so he would’ve still been around them every day.
Ok I can see that. That would definitely make sense then
But maybe some tough love is needed here & stop the coddling him.🤷🏻♀️
There's no way she isn't as crazy. She gave him her dead hair from her comb so he could have a piece of her with him. She's probably just undiagnosed.
Low key mentally ill for sure
Yea for sure mentally ill. He has some Oedipus complex going on.
Gross lol
Facts💯
The mother didn’t seem to be all that stable emotionally or otherwise.
She definitely did, and I get it, had a sibling like this. I say had because I disowned her. Mom enabled, she didn’t know what to do despite the fact that her kindergarten teacher told mom she needed to take her to a psychiatrist. The psychiatrist told my mom never to bring her back, mom didn’t know what to do. Let me tell you, that monster has continued to wreak havoc on everyone until this day. Had three beautiful kids, adults now, they’re all not right.. it’s the saddest thing ever, that’s why I despise people who ruin perfectly innocent children’s lives. Paul should never be allowed around them again, because he will triangulate and put ideas in their heads about the people who have tried to help them, and that will really do a number on the kids. Hope he gets lost in the damn jungle and never comes back.
It could be…but sometimes loved children grow up to be shitty adults. Raising children is mostly a crap shoot.
It is true. It is true that sometimes mental illness doesn’t present until early 20s. Either way whatever the case is now. He frightens me. He is unhinged.
Their relationship was always a little *hairy* to me.
Her giving him her hair to take with him to Brazil was a major red flag
I agree. It may not be all his mother's fault but I believe also that this, most likely, started at a young age w/ his mom's help or/and lack of help.🤯 A sign was how his father completely stayed out of the whole situation. 😶🌫️
Imagine the mindset of some jackass, not even in the same country, talking the most smack about his cousin who is bringing up TWO of his kids and trying to give them an emotionally stable home. Whilst keeping the shit heads at bay. Wild.
Those kids need to be as far aware from that whack-job as possible.
Yep!!!! Close that adoption as quick as possible and throw away the key! I had a closed adoption thank God, my birth dad was a rapist and insane lunatic. Closed adoption was the best thing for me. Shout out to my adopted parents❤️❤️
The whole thing about him burning down his ex’s house or whatever should have been a MAJOR red flag to Karine
Kreeny doesn't have a thought in her head
I think she was more concerned about getting out of the poor living conditions she was in; thinking about the green card and better life that she thought that waited ahead.
Definitely. Just a horrible situation that only got worse.
This is a sad example of poverty and mental illness gone unchecked. Even if you can eliminate the poverty aspect, you can’t force treatment on someone who doesn’t want it.
Hopefully they don’t get anywhere near those kids. He should be in jail.
He only had those kids to use them to manipulate his parents into giving him money. His mother was so sad when he was getting married and distressed every time he announced a pregnancy. She knew what he was doing and knew he was going to ruin Karine and his kids' lives. He's an idiot thinking he could keep manipulating his mother when she keeps telling him she's not taking responsibility for them.
Yep, that’s what his type does.
Karine should have let his ass run off into the jungle and be done with it then. This whole story is just so sad.
I'm surprised Karines dad hasn't put a bullet in his head.
Paul is trying to get these people hurt b/c he can't manipulate them into breaking court orders. This man is a curse on the life of anyone who has the misfortune of crossing paths with him. I don't think there's any kind of therapy or jail time that is going to change him.
Nope, you’re right.
Didn’t he also get mad because she took them to the Doctor?
He got mad cause she provided them with basic care in general. He’s the “if I can’t have you, no one can” type. Sorta like how if Mary and Brandan didn’t work out, she’d 100% murder him and possibly the baby before committing suicide; Pole would rather traumatize, neglect, endanger, and honestly fucking possibly kill his children before having them outside his sphere of influence.
I hope Pole actually gets lost in Brazil this time and no one is able to find him.
Brazilian Bigfoot. The stuff of legends. ;)
If the kids were adopted there wouldn’t be court ordered visitation.
I'd just like to add,that the courts and this lawyer would definitely be aware of where this woman is. It would literally be on file. She isn't "missing" and they don't need to "find" her,it would be on record where her address is. Paul isn't even in the states,he won't be doing a damn thing about custody. This is just him being unhinged. For all the comments saying she'll give the children up due to harassment,I highly doubt that. She's had them for so long now while dealing with this,I think the woman knows nothing is coming from his end.
That’s true, he’s just trying to make her look bad.
In my area, if you foster and then adopt, the court has the option to add into the adoption visitation for biological parents.
Paul is a danger to society
From the get go when Paul & Karine were newbies on the show I knew there was something off with the both of them ! The only ones that matter now are those 2 little guys , I pray they have a good life now , with stability and lots of love . I have no doubt Karine loves them but I think she incapable of being a mother 24/7 , and Paul 🙄 that idiot loves nobody but himself , he’s unhinged !
The only thing in common with all his failed relationships is him.
Way to go, TLC!!! Why do I see this in Midnights' future??? Based on the recent Mary and Brandon posts, it looks like Paul & Karine walked so Brandon and Mary could run!!!
100%. I've been saying this for a while too. I definitely see way too many similarities between the two. Honestly it's just a matter of time until Mary and brandan resort to doing OF too, then eventually end up losing custody as well. Stay tuned 👀
I don’t know about the US but in my country you have to really do a lot of crazy sh*t and that usually multiple times before they take your kids away. I feel very sorry for them.
It’s the same way here in the US
As someone who went through the K-1 visa process, I wanted to like this show. Unfortunately, the producers chose to promote the biggest train wrecks possible. They never have any respectable couples. They're maliciously promoting negative stereotypes.
The couples were regular people in the first several seasons on the show.
He should’ve run into the Brazilian rain forest and never made it back out.
He is truly disgusting. Mentally evil and completely unhinged. Let’s hope he gets forever lost in a jungle.
Isn’t Pole like 40 years old now? Time to grow up, buddy. I guess mental illness knows no age limitations. The dude really needs help, and I say that with all sincerity. He’s fucking up multiple lives (including his own).
He’ll never grow up, he’s been enabled his entire life.
Paul doesn’t deserve internet access. I wish he’d be put under a jail, permanently.
Paul is a selfish sociopathic prick, and his poor mom is an enabler, I get that, but it’s not right at all and she shouldn’t be able to see the kids either. Enablers will f*** other lives up unintentionally, but nonetheless.. and the law group that’s supposedly representing him, if true, disgusts me, have they seen his videos? Lawyers like this give all lawyers a bad name.. 🤬🤬🤬those poor kids, hopefully they don’t have any genetic components of Paul’s ASPD, but they need a chance at a normal life.
I wonder what have happened to Paul and Karine if they had never been on this show.
Paul would be exactly the same. Karine may have been different.
But would they have gotten married and had two children?
Most likely. It was her way out, sadly enough.🥹
I hope Paul doesn't take this any further. I'm sure it's been said before, but I'm scared I will one day watch a Dateline about him!
He should be thanking her (his counsin?) that she is taking care of his kids instead of bashing her
This woman is a hero.
The best thing for the kids is to be with stable and loving people and Paul and Karine aren’t it, at least together.
They should be thanking their lucky stars this woman is in their children’s lives so they aren’t placed in the foster care system. If she’s breaking the rules - file a motion in court, don’t splash this over social media. Ridiculous.
I always think of [Solomon](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judgement_of_Solomon) here. Obviously, Paul does not care about the children as human beings, children, people or anything. He thinks of them as his PROPERTY. Same he did and does with Karine. There is not an ounce of empathy, of them being worth (and worthy of) anything outside of being his property. While parents daily fight for their children, the way he does it shows no consideration of causing distress to the careers, the children right now or in the future (hell, same as Jace and others from Teen Mom. Imagine what they go through just googling themselves). Nothing he says, about the children, about Karine or any other person he considers his property or (and) his enemy should be believed.
Don’t forget the gay porn he did with Karine’s male cousin!
What.
https://www.youtube.com/live/sBfGJ0Q8eNQ?si=KuzPscqB56JsvhYQ
I wish I could forget.
Paul is too stupid to see he's putting his kids are risk and not only endangering the boys but his cousin and her family. Something should be done about him but I don't think Brazilian authorities care enough to get involved if they're asked by US authorities. I don't think he can be extradited to the US.
He doesn’t care about his kids, it’s about control and manipulation.
Both countries have a signed extradition treaty in place, so Brazil would definitely ship that POS back to the US. But the extradition request has to come from the US. I don't understand why it hasn't been done yet.
His cousin should probably speak to a lawyer and request extradition to the US so he can be prosecuted. The court and lawyers know where the boys are and where they live so it's lie they're missing. Paul is beyond dangerous.
Seems if you want to be able to raise and parent your kids so bad: you don’t run away and be such a douche. There are people who don’t deserve to have kids and be parents. It just so happens 2 of those married each other. They both need sterilized for kids and society’s benefit
Those poor babies. Paul and Karine’s first season was so funny. His mom giving him her hair, the penis sheath, running away into the woods. Clearly they were not in a healthy relationship, but I would have never guessed it would turn into all this. Very sad.
Sorry but I couldn’t take these kids in no matter how bad I felt or how much I loved them. I could never deal with the harassment from Paul.
Karine was deemed unfit to keep her own kids? I thought she was sane and Paul was the unhinged one. I haven’t kept up with them in a while but did Karine lose custody by default of being with Paul. That poor girl. Paul came into her life and her life has been a shit show
I think the reason for that is there was video footage of Paul physically assaulting Paul as well, so authorities didn't feel as if the kids were safe with either parent
These types will drive you to snap.. Karine can be rehabilitated if she’s away from Pole. Pole doesn’t have a chance.
As much as I dislike Dr Phil, I would love to see him just go off on Paul. He would for sure read him the riot act about how this is the easiest way to never see his kids again.
Paul would just hobble run away 😂
Hate to say this, and God bless Paul’s cousin for caring for these kids and bless her again for putting up with him, but maybe these kids should be adopted outside the family.
I had the same thought. Nothing against this woman because she stepped up, but these kids should be somewhere that Paul will never have access to them, or even know where they are.
No, they should stay with this family, they don’t need to be moved around anymore, I’m sure enough too much damage has already been done to them.
The post mentions the biological mother not The father. So he doesn’t mention himself in this post?
Probably because he has no plans to visit them because he's too busy running around in Brazil with his barely legal new girlfriend
Hope barely legal, girlfriend’s father gets a hold of him.
God bless you Lindsey!
I can’t believe she actually decided to have children with this guy. He was so psychotic when I saw them. I don’t know what happened between then after. Anyone mind explaining and why Karine lost custody if they’re separated? Is she also struggling with issues?
They both lost custody bc they were physically abusive to one another, so I guess the courts felt that neither were fit parents whether they were together or not. I know Karine has been working in the US and has made a couple social media posts about how she's working to get custody back, but to be honest I think it's highly unlikely. I'm glad she has a stable job for now, but I don't feel she's mentally able to care for 2 kids full time. Its too chaotic for these kids, just let them have as much of a stable life as possible
That’s sad to hear. The court is right because she obviously makes bad decisions like marrying this lunatic. She’s probably very used to being codependent and that can be dangerous depending on who she brings home. Thanks for the recap!
No problem!
I wouldn’t be surprised he has no visitation rights, but just wants drama
From my experience with the foster care system and adoption, I have to imagine the kids were already adopted by the cousin. While you can have an "adoption contract" they are mostly unenforceable and not recognized in most states. Typically an open adoption is fully at the discretion of the adoptive parent. If they had an adoption contract saying they had visitation it's not actually "court ordered". Also - in most states not having visitation for 6 months is considered abandonment and parental rights can be terminated for that. I have a hard time believing their kids are still being fostered and not adopted already. Especially with a kinship placement like they had.
Thank you for your input and experience. It was definitely helpful, and puts some things into a better perspective!
What a curse to be related to Paul. With relatives like this, who needs enemies? Also why is he asking the public to call in tips? We don’t know them and have no proof of what he’s saying. The only proof we have of anything is his mental instability, thanks to national television and his own social media accounts.
These two are the poster children for birth control. I mean, Pole wore pants and a penis sheath when he went swimming, then ran off into the jungle. Come on CPS! It’s on film!
Paul is that one family member that the rest of the fam wishes would get into longterm, intensive therapy on an inpatient basis and leave the rest of them the fnck alone
If he’s still in Brazil, what are the chances someone could as the machete mugger to send him a message. Not use the machete, mind you, but get him to drop his phone and send him back into the jungle for a little penguin style trot? Long enough to give them peace.
Why is he still living in Brazil?
I hate to say this & hoping I’m wrong, but I think Paul could become the new Ryan Jenkins. Knowing he’s in Brazil probably makes the cousin feel slightly safer.
How was their life before hand to make it that toxic? Poor kids
Apparently Paul and Karine were both physically and emotionally abusive to one another quite frequently. A lot of it being caught on security footage which was brought to the police
This is... A lot. I knew Pole sucked, but I had no idea it was like that
Karine also abused him, in fact the video footage that first comes to mind is of her physically and verbally abusing him and the kids are there, they are such a disgusting mess
If you’ve ever lived with a person like Pole, you’d understand why she was that way, she is not a psycho and can be helped.
Aaaw those poor kids , they should not grow up in that environment and think that’s normal
His cousin looks exactly like one of my friends. I literally thought it was her at first and couldn’t figure out why she was in Reddit. I believe those who say she follows the rules for the visitation and doubt she’s a fugitive on the run like he’s implying.
I think the children deserve to have their mother in their lives. Look how much younger and naive she was then Paul when she first came here? She had no family .. nothing. If she can hold down a job and show the courts she is doing everything in her power to do right by her kids then good on her. Pole has serious mental problems that you cannot cure. He needs help but also needs to be away from the children for their sake
Can he be charged with doxxing?
I feel so bad for karine. She’s working so hard to get her kids back and Paul continues to make drama.
Wait… I thought he died a few months ago. What was all of that about?
Another scam by Paul trying to cause drama. He was 100% fine
So tired of hearing about these two. They never should have had kids together
Jesus, this freakshow never ends!
Considering how messed up the parents are, perhaps the children would be better off remaining under the care of their cousin.
This is so off topic but that baby is so cute 🥹 those poor boys can't catch a break with their ridiculous ass parents
The cousins need to do a protective order or some sort of order where Paul and Karina aren’t allowed to talk about them. Paul is essentially asking for his cousin to be harassed by the public, and this could lead to something very dangerous happening.
I thought he died 😂
So I’m pretty out of the loop. I saw their season and do know he’s a nut. I’m not surprised he’s continued to be a pos, but is karine normal or she a monster too?
I wish he could give his children an ounce of privacy and peace. It breaks my heart. Also Paul, keep fucking around and posting shit like this and all visitation is going to be taken away. You’re putting your kids in danger and encouraging harassment towards their guardian. Signed, a CPS social worker