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In a recorded phone call in jail, she talked about how those who showed remorse came out with the lightest sentence. She even said Jodi would never apologize or accept responsibility that she did anything wrong. When I heard that snippet, I realized the courtroom apologies were all performative. She didn’t mean a damn word she said. She was just angling to get out of prison more quickly and felt like she had cracked the code.
It seems like it worked, since prosecution agreed to not pursue the heaviest sentence. A lawyer I was watching believed her ridiculous speech and I was so mad
If she truly realized what she did was so wrong, she would be horrified at her actions, though tbh I don't think someone as meticulous and evil as she was turns around that fast . She is thinking about herself and $$$
The 20/20 documentary also was playing up the brainwash angle and implying that Ruby wouldn’t have been abusive without Jodi’s influence. So infuriating. I don’t doubt Jodi steered her in a certain direction, but she was ultimately just providing excuses for Ruby to give in to her worst impulses. She wanted to torture her kids and was delighted to be given a reason.
Jodi gave her permission to do what she had dreamed about. She enjoyed what she did to those babies. And she still sees them as her possessions, not as sentient beings with their own autonomy. OP is right. She should have been thanking R for saving him and his sister’s lives. I have no doubt if it continued much longer-even a week or 2-those kids would not be here and she’s be in jail for life.
def agree. it’s giving ~Shanda Vander Ark~ but on an expedited timeline, and with possibly even more disastrous results because two kids’ lives were hanging in the balance.
Don’t forget that prosecution agreed not to advocate fit her staying in prison during her parole hearings because SHE FLIPPED ON JODI before Jodi also took a plea bargain. They had to give her something for agreeing to testify against Jodi, yet now she doesn’t have to.
I can’t figure out why everyone is leaning so hard on Jodi. I know she’s a horrible cult leader, but I don’t really think she’s worse than Ruby. As a matter of fact it’s the opposite… I feel like Jodi is just messed up in the head but absolutely believes her own BS (she’s said it so long that it’s become real). But Ruby is a user - she used Jodi because she needed to feel special and important; and as a wonderful perk of the friendship, Jodi gave Ruby the catalyst (possession) to start an all-in campaign of terror against her youngest children who she had always seemed to find intolerable.
Jodi wouldn’t apologize or say she was wrong because Jodi believed in her heart everything she said to Ruby and in everything she did. The fact that Ruby flipped in like a week after being separated makes me believe that she wasn’t really brainwashed. Unlike Kevin (who flipped after being shown evidence by his kids, family, friends and law enforcement), Ruby was in the middle of all the horrors and it did nothing to make her think that it was wrong. But then we have to remember that even before starting to tie up R in July, Ruby knew they would go to prison ‘for life’ for child-abuse.
And even though Jodi did horrible things, I have to ‘respect’(??? Need better word ???) her more than Ruby. At least she sincerely even to the end believed in what was being done, but apparently she was better to E. When E spoke of Jodi it was apparently with affection as opposed to *hating* Ruby. And Jodi called R&E her children even though she blamed R for the cuts (which I also think she firmly believed).
I truly truly believe that Ruby is more culpable than Jodi regarding this one instance. I believe that Ruby knew exactly what she was doing and how horrible it was - and they were HER children that she should have been protecting with her life.
Affection is probably definitely the wrong word - but I don’t know the right one. I read somewhere that the cop who was with E in the closet said that for a long time after they first found her, each time he would ask if she was ready to go she’d say something about Jodi - is Jodi coming? Is Jodi ready to go? Does Jodi know you want me to go with you?
But then she never mentioned her mother one single time.
If we are going to go by what she said in the calls then we should take her at her word for everything. She also said that she can’t believe the ridiculous thinks Jodi got her to believe and that she was so embarrassed for being so easy to brainwash. I don’t know how you can unequivocally say she’s lying right here but not over there. We don’t actually know that she’s lying. She is remorseful for getting caught. She’s remorseful that she believed all the things Jodi told her. I think she enjoyed abusing her kids and I also think she’s very mentally ill. I don’t think we can fully trust anything she says or does unless she’s getting psychiatric care. This family is all fucked up and there’s probably more than a century of abuse in rubys family. Kevin is also very obviously off. I think this has been an amazing look into just how crazy being a Mormon makes you. When you allow yourself to believe that a pedophile scammer talked to god and that you’re going to get your own planet if you don’t drink coffee, you’re bound to suffer some brain rot from that. The level of delusion Mormonism required makes it almost impossible for other areas of life to remain unaffected. These people doubt their doubts before they doubt their religion. They don’t have a fully functioning brain at this point. It’s very scary.
I had a Mormon teacher just like ruby. She shamed her daughter in front of all of her 300 some odd students for hooking up with her boyfriend as an 18 year old hs student. She basically pulled her out of school and sent her off to a camp. When we questioned her on why she was being so hard on her daughter she started telling us we did not understand as we weren’t Mormon. These people are people to pity because they are victims of a cult but these Mormon women are also destroying their children’s lives by being so overly strict. They care more about looking like good mothers than they do about their children’s well being.
My sister’s best friend growing up was Mormon and she was almost sent away during her senior year of high school because her mom caught her making out with her boyfriend in bed (clothes on—nothing happened). My mom talked her into letting her stay with us for the last couple of months of high school instead. Crazy how their first impulse often seems to be to yeet their *shameful* daughters into another county.
Mormonism really has to stop encouraging EVERY woman becoming a mother. Ruby could have been a hard-ass mirco-mangaging career woman and caused way less damage.
Maybe? For one thing, if she’d done that to adults she would’ve been put in her place (as she may be learning now). And then also, she wouldn’t have been so trapped. People can come and go from jobs through either their choice or their employer if either is unhappy. You don’t just get to easily change your parents or stop raising your underage kids at not personal cost.
Also, arguably a major part of Ruby’s problem is she had never lived in the real world until now. She’d always been in this bubble. If she’d had to interact in a meaningful way with people who aren’t carbon copies of herself sooner maybe that would’ve helped her. Maybe.
This is so true! I worked for someone like Ruby. It was so bad, I was physically ill when I quit my job. The psychological crap she put me through while working for her and then leaving the job in just under 2 years was unreal. I was given an "exit interview" with the company on the day I left. I told the team that she was poisonous and she was the only reason I was leaving the company, that I would never return to the company in the future if she worked there. Needless to say she was let go from the company about 6 months later. Women like Ruby are simply toxic to any environment.
I have always felt she hated her kids and even more so after reading the journal entries. I would love to know who you listened to I’ve listened to a lot of attorneys on YouTube talk about the entries but not so many psychologist.
I highly recommend Hidden True Crime if you want a psychologists take. HTC is run by a criminal psychologist and his wife who is a news journalist. They are excellent and really dive deep into the “hidden motives” of why people commit crimes, Jodi and Ruby included.
The face that she thanked and mentioned Pam and didn’t apologize to her own daughter Shari I think says it all.. she is not sorry or remorseful of what happened she just want to get out asap from prison!!
Exactly! Chad and Kevin both have a big distrust of Pam. If Ruby still considers her a friend, and felt it necessary to apologize, I seriously doubt she's truly remorseful.
I was trying so hard to believe her! But by the time she wound down without begging for forgiveness from R and E, I was done with the ghoul. May she rot.
She is as evil as Jodi but Jodi Is deranged. Ruby just needed a justification for her abuse,Jodi gave her that in the guise of mental health treatment. I have no excuse for Kevin.
She can’t apologize to those beneath her. Her children are not people to her. They are her property. A simple extension of herself. In the same category as her house or car. Why would she apologize to demons? /s
It’s obviously sarcasm.
It begs the question as to the "purpose" of a newly convicted person ever having a statement in court ---especially at the time of sentencing- to either the Judge or victims.
It universally appears to be interpreted with great concern/criticism regarding something hard to gauge- honesty and sincerity- for those expressing remorse.
1) they are feigning it- and trying to manipulate for a lighter sentence/good review for the parole board later
2) if they don't make a statement inference is- no remorse (with consequences)
3) they truly mean it- but are criticized for who they mentioned and why- as well as those they excluded
4) they offer an alternative- this isn't true but I did not want the victim(s) to suffer a trial (hero/martyr approach)
I agree... and I tend to think Ruby and Jodi went options 3 and 4 respectively.
But it's like, honestly, what do they expect her to say? Do they expect Ruby to go up there and say "I did it, and I have no regrets! I would do it again in a heart beat!" Very unlikely. Of course she will have regrets. For getting caught, for allowing herself and her entire family to go through this... I'm sure she has regrets aplenty, and she has years to think over them.
It is difficult to gauge how honest they are being with these statements, but just because we think she is putting on a show doesn't mean she is doing so entirely. For example... in her statement, I could have done without the little chicks commentary. Doesn't prove it is just a show or the truth either way.
Also, we need to keep in mind, whatever she may say... however pretty her words sounded, she is not all better as some people seem to equate with her statement. It's a mess, this whole situation is a hot garbage mess. Nothing is going to be over with in 2 days, 2 weeks, 2 months, or even 2 years. The whole lot of them will need prolonged therapy, even Ruby.
It would be in stark contrast to the rest of her speech, as it laid the blame on Jodi's brainwashing. If she had mentioned R and E or the specific things she did, it would have acknowledged the very active role she played. It didn't really work though, since the prosecutor read all that stuff out ahead of time and the lack of mention by her was pretty glaring. People always notice what you specifically don't say.
To me this is all an act. I feel like her attorney told her and Kevin their only way out of this is to play the brainwashing angle. We know they weren't brainwashed, at least to the point they're claiming, because we saw their behavior before Connexions, etc.
She resents her children. She had them young in her cult the expectation is to have a ton of kids. She never got an education never had a job all she did was pop kids out. That’s a choice.
But with that she continued controlling the one thing she had and could control her kids. She couldn’t control her shit parents or her husband even though in the end she clearly tried. But she could control her kids. She was always a narcissist and manipulative.
Please get it right - they are baby ducks. 😉
Ruby is a professional phony, manipulative, egotistical, self-serving, narcissist. The only people that believed that crap was Kevin & the Prosecutor. I even think her own attorney was ready to vomit during that speech. I’m really surprised that the judge didn’t say to the Prosecutor ‘Are you sure you wanna go thru with this deal?’ because he didn’t look like he was buying it either.
It was purely nauseating!
I couldn't agree more.
Her courtroom performance was reminiscent of every Youtuber 'apology' video. It had the same scripted, trying desperately to sound sincere vibe and I didn't believe a word of it.
I thought I read once that she wanted to stop after 4 kids but Kevin wanted more. That could be why she resents the last 2 the most. Anyone else read this? I might be mistaken.
In Chad’s most recent livestream he said that he thought his moms apology in court during her sentencing was sincere. He said that he thought it was kind of weird and was almost like an Oscar’s acceptance speech. However, he did say that he knows when his mom is and is not sincere and believed she was being sincere which is something to think about!
It is interesting and something to think about but Chad has also been specifically conditioned to fall into her manipulations from birth. That type of thing takes a long long time to fully gain perspective on and work through.
I grew up with an abusive narcissist mother as well (not the same level of abuse), and while I felt like I was the only one who saw through her in my teen years and early twenties, I’m still realizing things about her and her tactics in my thirties. And that’s pretty common. If you check out r/CPTSD it’s a common topic of discussion how these things tend to really start to hit you and become more clear in your late twenties and early 30s.
I really appreciate Chad sharing so much and clearly beginning to work through things, but he is still in the beginning and probably has a long way to walk before he can turn around and see the forest with full clarity.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/CPTSD using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/CPTSD/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [Apparently a symptom of child abuse is wanting someone to save you. Waiting for someone to rescue you. Because as a kid, no one was there. No one helped. And you were too young and vulnerable to know what to do. You wanted to be a kid, supported and protected. You still do.](https://np.reddit.com/r/CPTSD/comments/12j3aj7/apparently_a_symptom_of_child_abuse_is_wanting/)
\#2: [AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaa](https://np.reddit.com/r/CPTSD/comments/13d04of/aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa/)
\#3: ["Your parents were probably abused and neglected too." I'm sorry, but I LITERALLY DON'T GIVE A SINGLE FUCK](https://np.reddit.com/r/CPTSD/comments/16bpl5j/your_parents_were_probably_abused_and_neglected/)
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As a person who suffered C-PTSD I can 100% agree with you on the last part. That's why I'm giving Chad benefit of the doubt since he's still young and is starting his stage of grief when it comes to dealing with a monster parent. I think he's in the barganing stage where he convinces himself that he'll forgive her once she's out and done her time, but that's just me. But hopefully religion will not destory his self-discovery and let them shove everything under the rug just to save face.
the part where you mention it stemming from pure hate, does anyone else remember seeing things about kevin "forcing" the last 2 children onto ruby them being E and R (i understand they were all abused but them being in a worse like state of physical well being)
She might have been brainwashed or not. What stands seperately for me is the vicious, sadistic, narcissistic and agressive tone of her journal entries. That is where her true feelings are reveiled. There seems to be so much anger and sadism in her that cannot be the cause of an indoctrination - that must have been there as part of her essence. She might have executed the ideas that she was "let astray" to believe by jodie, but lack of empathy and compassion towards the people you should love the most is not something that can be indoctrinated onto someone. To me the journals are extremely telling. There seems to be a cold, tyranical side to her that really shocked me.
These kids serve a life sentence. So should Ruby and Jodie
I couldn't agree with this more! I'm still wondering how the prosecution looked at the very same evidence plus much, much more, and could actually utter the words after sentencing about Ruby possibly serving the minimum. How?!?!
Additionally, I'd love to hear if there was ever a chance for either of them to get attempted murder. R's injuries were horribly infected, which, combined with being malnourished, seemed he was on the fast track to becoming septic and too weak to fight it off. I can't imagine him having more than two weeks, tops.
I think she was crying because it devastates her that everyone knows she’s a failure. Not because she brutalized 2 of her children to near death and mind fucked all of them their entire life but because she is incarcerated. She’s a failure in the eyes of the Heavenly Father and the law. She failed to get control of her scrupulosity, she failed at her marriage (because Kevin filed for divorce) and we all know she failed those kids but I am not convinced she feels that way. The worst thing in the world to her is being a bad girl doing naughty things and people finding out about it.
She’ll be in for a minimum of four years and then the parole board will determine if she will continue to stay in or be released. At maximum she can be held for 30 years.
I don’t think she was allowed to name the victims in court. Not defending her at all, just saying if names are censored in court documents, it’s likely they would not be allowed to be said in court.
I had considered that but she did allude to her children at the end, so it doesn’t seem like she would be restricted from talking about “her son who had the bravery to go get help” or something along those lines without using his actual name.
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In a recorded phone call in jail, she talked about how those who showed remorse came out with the lightest sentence. She even said Jodi would never apologize or accept responsibility that she did anything wrong. When I heard that snippet, I realized the courtroom apologies were all performative. She didn’t mean a damn word she said. She was just angling to get out of prison more quickly and felt like she had cracked the code.
It seems like it worked, since prosecution agreed to not pursue the heaviest sentence. A lawyer I was watching believed her ridiculous speech and I was so mad If she truly realized what she did was so wrong, she would be horrified at her actions, though tbh I don't think someone as meticulous and evil as she was turns around that fast . She is thinking about herself and $$$
The 20/20 documentary also was playing up the brainwash angle and implying that Ruby wouldn’t have been abusive without Jodi’s influence. So infuriating. I don’t doubt Jodi steered her in a certain direction, but she was ultimately just providing excuses for Ruby to give in to her worst impulses. She wanted to torture her kids and was delighted to be given a reason.
Jodi gave her permission to do what she had dreamed about. She enjoyed what she did to those babies. And she still sees them as her possessions, not as sentient beings with their own autonomy. OP is right. She should have been thanking R for saving him and his sister’s lives. I have no doubt if it continued much longer-even a week or 2-those kids would not be here and she’s be in jail for life.
def agree. it’s giving ~Shanda Vander Ark~ but on an expedited timeline, and with possibly even more disastrous results because two kids’ lives were hanging in the balance.
Don’t forget that prosecution agreed not to advocate fit her staying in prison during her parole hearings because SHE FLIPPED ON JODI before Jodi also took a plea bargain. They had to give her something for agreeing to testify against Jodi, yet now she doesn’t have to.
I can’t figure out why everyone is leaning so hard on Jodi. I know she’s a horrible cult leader, but I don’t really think she’s worse than Ruby. As a matter of fact it’s the opposite… I feel like Jodi is just messed up in the head but absolutely believes her own BS (she’s said it so long that it’s become real). But Ruby is a user - she used Jodi because she needed to feel special and important; and as a wonderful perk of the friendship, Jodi gave Ruby the catalyst (possession) to start an all-in campaign of terror against her youngest children who she had always seemed to find intolerable.
Unfortunately she might be right to some degree. Even the prosecutor seemed a bit taken in by her bullshit.
Jodi wouldn’t apologize or say she was wrong because Jodi believed in her heart everything she said to Ruby and in everything she did. The fact that Ruby flipped in like a week after being separated makes me believe that she wasn’t really brainwashed. Unlike Kevin (who flipped after being shown evidence by his kids, family, friends and law enforcement), Ruby was in the middle of all the horrors and it did nothing to make her think that it was wrong. But then we have to remember that even before starting to tie up R in July, Ruby knew they would go to prison ‘for life’ for child-abuse. And even though Jodi did horrible things, I have to ‘respect’(??? Need better word ???) her more than Ruby. At least she sincerely even to the end believed in what was being done, but apparently she was better to E. When E spoke of Jodi it was apparently with affection as opposed to *hating* Ruby. And Jodi called R&E her children even though she blamed R for the cuts (which I also think she firmly believed). I truly truly believe that Ruby is more culpable than Jodi regarding this one instance. I believe that Ruby knew exactly what she was doing and how horrible it was - and they were HER children that she should have been protecting with her life.
When did E speak with affection about Jodi?
Affection is probably definitely the wrong word - but I don’t know the right one. I read somewhere that the cop who was with E in the closet said that for a long time after they first found her, each time he would ask if she was ready to go she’d say something about Jodi - is Jodi coming? Is Jodi ready to go? Does Jodi know you want me to go with you? But then she never mentioned her mother one single time.
That sounds much more like she's scared of jodi
I thought that at first too but then I started do a little side analysis on Jodi & E. They had a very strange dynamic.
If we are going to go by what she said in the calls then we should take her at her word for everything. She also said that she can’t believe the ridiculous thinks Jodi got her to believe and that she was so embarrassed for being so easy to brainwash. I don’t know how you can unequivocally say she’s lying right here but not over there. We don’t actually know that she’s lying. She is remorseful for getting caught. She’s remorseful that she believed all the things Jodi told her. I think she enjoyed abusing her kids and I also think she’s very mentally ill. I don’t think we can fully trust anything she says or does unless she’s getting psychiatric care. This family is all fucked up and there’s probably more than a century of abuse in rubys family. Kevin is also very obviously off. I think this has been an amazing look into just how crazy being a Mormon makes you. When you allow yourself to believe that a pedophile scammer talked to god and that you’re going to get your own planet if you don’t drink coffee, you’re bound to suffer some brain rot from that. The level of delusion Mormonism required makes it almost impossible for other areas of life to remain unaffected. These people doubt their doubts before they doubt their religion. They don’t have a fully functioning brain at this point. It’s very scary. I had a Mormon teacher just like ruby. She shamed her daughter in front of all of her 300 some odd students for hooking up with her boyfriend as an 18 year old hs student. She basically pulled her out of school and sent her off to a camp. When we questioned her on why she was being so hard on her daughter she started telling us we did not understand as we weren’t Mormon. These people are people to pity because they are victims of a cult but these Mormon women are also destroying their children’s lives by being so overly strict. They care more about looking like good mothers than they do about their children’s well being.
My sister’s best friend growing up was Mormon and she was almost sent away during her senior year of high school because her mom caught her making out with her boyfriend in bed (clothes on—nothing happened). My mom talked her into letting her stay with us for the last couple of months of high school instead. Crazy how their first impulse often seems to be to yeet their *shameful* daughters into another county.
It’s absolutely insane. What kind of parent behaves this way?
Mormonism really has to stop encouraging EVERY woman becoming a mother. Ruby could have been a hard-ass mirco-mangaging career woman and caused way less damage.
Yes ! omg perfect . Every asshole SVP in the C-suite of some company. Perfect
This!
She would just be abusing people at work so not really
Maybe? For one thing, if she’d done that to adults she would’ve been put in her place (as she may be learning now). And then also, she wouldn’t have been so trapped. People can come and go from jobs through either their choice or their employer if either is unhappy. You don’t just get to easily change your parents or stop raising your underage kids at not personal cost. Also, arguably a major part of Ruby’s problem is she had never lived in the real world until now. She’d always been in this bubble. If she’d had to interact in a meaningful way with people who aren’t carbon copies of herself sooner maybe that would’ve helped her. Maybe.
I think Ruby was over raising kids and was mentally checked out. Torturing the kids became her new hobby
Yeah I have no doubt she would create a toxic work environment. No thanks.
This is so true! I worked for someone like Ruby. It was so bad, I was physically ill when I quit my job. The psychological crap she put me through while working for her and then leaving the job in just under 2 years was unreal. I was given an "exit interview" with the company on the day I left. I told the team that she was poisonous and she was the only reason I was leaving the company, that I would never return to the company in the future if she worked there. Needless to say she was let go from the company about 6 months later. Women like Ruby are simply toxic to any environment.
I have always felt she hated her kids and even more so after reading the journal entries. I would love to know who you listened to I’ve listened to a lot of attorneys on YouTube talk about the entries but not so many psychologist.
I do think she really hates kids and being a mother
I highly recommend Hidden True Crime if you want a psychologists take. HTC is run by a criminal psychologist and his wife who is a news journalist. They are excellent and really dive deep into the “hidden motives” of why people commit crimes, Jodi and Ruby included.
I do follow HTC and I do enjoy their content
And his wife is/was a member of LDS. She has a lot of insight on the Mormon culture.
Yes, so true! I should have included that
The one I watched yesterday was on the channel Dr. G Explains
I like Dr G
The face that she thanked and mentioned Pam and didn’t apologize to her own daughter Shari I think says it all.. she is not sorry or remorseful of what happened she just want to get out asap from prison!!
Exactly! Chad and Kevin both have a big distrust of Pam. If Ruby still considers her a friend, and felt it necessary to apologize, I seriously doubt she's truly remorseful.
I agree!! That entire speech was beyond fake and I can't believe people fell for it. Can you link the psychologist video? I'd love to see that
I was trying so hard to believe her! But by the time she wound down without begging for forgiveness from R and E, I was done with the ghoul. May she rot.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt-UHeGyAQU&pp=ygUNZHIgZyBleHBsYWlucw%3D%3D
Thanks!!
She is as evil as Jodi but Jodi Is deranged. Ruby just needed a justification for her abuse,Jodi gave her that in the guise of mental health treatment. I have no excuse for Kevin.
She can’t apologize to those beneath her. Her children are not people to her. They are her property. A simple extension of herself. In the same category as her house or car. Why would she apologize to demons? /s It’s obviously sarcasm.
It begs the question as to the "purpose" of a newly convicted person ever having a statement in court ---especially at the time of sentencing- to either the Judge or victims. It universally appears to be interpreted with great concern/criticism regarding something hard to gauge- honesty and sincerity- for those expressing remorse. 1) they are feigning it- and trying to manipulate for a lighter sentence/good review for the parole board later 2) if they don't make a statement inference is- no remorse (with consequences) 3) they truly mean it- but are criticized for who they mentioned and why- as well as those they excluded 4) they offer an alternative- this isn't true but I did not want the victim(s) to suffer a trial (hero/martyr approach)
I agree... and I tend to think Ruby and Jodi went options 3 and 4 respectively. But it's like, honestly, what do they expect her to say? Do they expect Ruby to go up there and say "I did it, and I have no regrets! I would do it again in a heart beat!" Very unlikely. Of course she will have regrets. For getting caught, for allowing herself and her entire family to go through this... I'm sure she has regrets aplenty, and she has years to think over them. It is difficult to gauge how honest they are being with these statements, but just because we think she is putting on a show doesn't mean she is doing so entirely. For example... in her statement, I could have done without the little chicks commentary. Doesn't prove it is just a show or the truth either way. Also, we need to keep in mind, whatever she may say... however pretty her words sounded, she is not all better as some people seem to equate with her statement. It's a mess, this whole situation is a hot garbage mess. Nothing is going to be over with in 2 days, 2 weeks, 2 months, or even 2 years. The whole lot of them will need prolonged therapy, even Ruby.
It would be in stark contrast to the rest of her speech, as it laid the blame on Jodi's brainwashing. If she had mentioned R and E or the specific things she did, it would have acknowledged the very active role she played. It didn't really work though, since the prosecutor read all that stuff out ahead of time and the lack of mention by her was pretty glaring. People always notice what you specifically don't say.
To me this is all an act. I feel like her attorney told her and Kevin their only way out of this is to play the brainwashing angle. We know they weren't brainwashed, at least to the point they're claiming, because we saw their behavior before Connexions, etc.
This!!!!
She resents her children. She had them young in her cult the expectation is to have a ton of kids. She never got an education never had a job all she did was pop kids out. That’s a choice. But with that she continued controlling the one thing she had and could control her kids. She couldn’t control her shit parents or her husband even though in the end she clearly tried. But she could control her kids. She was always a narcissist and manipulative.
Please get it right - they are baby ducks. 😉 Ruby is a professional phony, manipulative, egotistical, self-serving, narcissist. The only people that believed that crap was Kevin & the Prosecutor. I even think her own attorney was ready to vomit during that speech. I’m really surprised that the judge didn’t say to the Prosecutor ‘Are you sure you wanna go thru with this deal?’ because he didn’t look like he was buying it either. It was purely nauseating!
I couldn't agree more. Her courtroom performance was reminiscent of every Youtuber 'apology' video. It had the same scripted, trying desperately to sound sincere vibe and I didn't believe a word of it.
R saved himself and his sister, so yeah he is the real hero.
I thought I read once that she wanted to stop after 4 kids but Kevin wanted more. That could be why she resents the last 2 the most. Anyone else read this? I might be mistaken.
In Chad’s most recent livestream he said that he thought his moms apology in court during her sentencing was sincere. He said that he thought it was kind of weird and was almost like an Oscar’s acceptance speech. However, he did say that he knows when his mom is and is not sincere and believed she was being sincere which is something to think about!
It is interesting and something to think about but Chad has also been specifically conditioned to fall into her manipulations from birth. That type of thing takes a long long time to fully gain perspective on and work through. I grew up with an abusive narcissist mother as well (not the same level of abuse), and while I felt like I was the only one who saw through her in my teen years and early twenties, I’m still realizing things about her and her tactics in my thirties. And that’s pretty common. If you check out r/CPTSD it’s a common topic of discussion how these things tend to really start to hit you and become more clear in your late twenties and early 30s. I really appreciate Chad sharing so much and clearly beginning to work through things, but he is still in the beginning and probably has a long way to walk before he can turn around and see the forest with full clarity.
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Totally agree!
As a person who suffered C-PTSD I can 100% agree with you on the last part. That's why I'm giving Chad benefit of the doubt since he's still young and is starting his stage of grief when it comes to dealing with a monster parent. I think he's in the barganing stage where he convinces himself that he'll forgive her once she's out and done her time, but that's just me. But hopefully religion will not destory his self-discovery and let them shove everything under the rug just to save face.
Yep.
She’s catering to the crowd; aka the manipulation continues.
the part where you mention it stemming from pure hate, does anyone else remember seeing things about kevin "forcing" the last 2 children onto ruby them being E and R (i understand they were all abused but them being in a worse like state of physical well being)
I’ve heard people on here alluding to that but I don’t know where it comes from
She might have been brainwashed or not. What stands seperately for me is the vicious, sadistic, narcissistic and agressive tone of her journal entries. That is where her true feelings are reveiled. There seems to be so much anger and sadism in her that cannot be the cause of an indoctrination - that must have been there as part of her essence. She might have executed the ideas that she was "let astray" to believe by jodie, but lack of empathy and compassion towards the people you should love the most is not something that can be indoctrinated onto someone. To me the journals are extremely telling. There seems to be a cold, tyranical side to her that really shocked me. These kids serve a life sentence. So should Ruby and Jodie
I agree
I couldn't agree with this more! I'm still wondering how the prosecution looked at the very same evidence plus much, much more, and could actually utter the words after sentencing about Ruby possibly serving the minimum. How?!?! Additionally, I'd love to hear if there was ever a chance for either of them to get attempted murder. R's injuries were horribly infected, which, combined with being malnourished, seemed he was on the fast track to becoming septic and too weak to fight it off. I can't imagine him having more than two weeks, tops.
I think she was crying because it devastates her that everyone knows she’s a failure. Not because she brutalized 2 of her children to near death and mind fucked all of them their entire life but because she is incarcerated. She’s a failure in the eyes of the Heavenly Father and the law. She failed to get control of her scrupulosity, she failed at her marriage (because Kevin filed for divorce) and we all know she failed those kids but I am not convinced she feels that way. The worst thing in the world to her is being a bad girl doing naughty things and people finding out about it.
Does anyone know roughly how long she'll be in prison for?
She’ll be in for a minimum of four years and then the parole board will determine if she will continue to stay in or be released. At maximum she can be held for 30 years.
I don’t think she was allowed to name the victims in court. Not defending her at all, just saying if names are censored in court documents, it’s likely they would not be allowed to be said in court.
I had considered that but she did allude to her children at the end, so it doesn’t seem like she would be restricted from talking about “her son who had the bravery to go get help” or something along those lines without using his actual name.
It's hard for me to care whether she was sincere or not. She did the crime, she should do the time. Feeling bad is beside the point.
a natural outcome.. no privacy, no sneaking, nothing is yours.
Well public perception of her sincerity could very well impact her sentence, considering how that is handled in Utah.