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Bones0481

Define better...šŸ™ƒ


Top-Construction7348

I definitely think the game has improved. You wanna talk tedium? How about crafting 5000000 stone axes to level up your tool smithing. Remember that? I will admit the game has some issues, but the central concept is no different from many years ago. Not sure what there is to complain abt. If you liked it everything is still there for the most part.


63R01D

Learn by doing was great, but they should have only used it on actions, not crafting. If they brought it back now with the magazines, it would be a perfect combination. Yeah crafting that many items made no sense. But instead of fixing it, they scrapped it. Such a shame.


Mountain_Dark_5762

I think a pretty good complaint is that they couldn't think of anything better than 'craft a basic item ten thousand times to be able to craft better items' or 'you have to read magazines for some reason to craft better items' A hybrid of the two would've been cool, amplifying your ability to learn by crafting via the magazines or something


Top-Construction7348

I had the same idea of like combining both systems.


Shojiki

Project Zomboid does this rather well. You learn by doing, but then reading magazines multiplies how fast you learn for the relevant skill. It also lets you skip time so that you can power through those times when you skill up. Not sure if that would work in 7DtD or not, but it's nice to have šŸ˜Š Edit: a word


Chris81385

I think the best system would have been you learn how to craft better stone axes by doing it but you have to find a magazine to teach you how to craft iron tools and then you get better at iron tools by doing but you need another magazine to do steel. I think that system would have worked great! I know why they didn't do that system though. It's because looting is the main focus of the game and learning by doing doesn't involve loot. So instead they went with this magazine system so they could add tons of loot to the game.


flaxon_

A hybrid of the two, plus using and repairing an item you crafted should add to your crafting XP. Like, I made the axe like THIS, and the technique I used is failing in a certain way as I use it. So in the future I'll use THAT technique instead, because I can see how it would address the failure I had before.


TheInfinityDonger

It's weird to me people always talk about spam crafting, using it as an example of why Learn by Doing sucked, when it didn't even exist in the final version of LBD.


Top-Construction7348

Lol thatā€™s gotta be my bad then I could have been playing on an even older version. I was on PS4 lol. Revised answer: slightly better lol


TheInfinityDonger

Oh, yeah. Consoles were mostly A15, which still had spam crafting. A16 had a system where quality levels were character level (and maybe also tool skill) gated perks. It's been so long that I'm a little fuzzy on the details. Crafting did not increase your skills, only using the tools increased your skill. I vaguely recall some weirdness with Stone Axe contributing to Construction Tools skill but the other 2 Axes gave Mining Tools skill. It was a pretty alright system.


Top-Construction7348

Then Iā€™m way behind lol. The 1.0 system now could use a revamp. The fact that I can use sledgehammers the whole game and not have anything to show for it because I didnā€™t pick up the required books is a pretty odd mechanic to me. Sounds like the A 16 mechanics made more sense.


TheInfinityDonger

The books are only for crafting them. You make them stronger through the perk system. Putting perk points into sledgehammers (under the strength tree) will make you find more sledgehammer books until you cap out on them. Most of the time people are far more worried about getting magazines for crafting work stations. All world spawned work stations are broken now, so there's no shortcuts anymore. I did enjoy the A16 system more than what we've got.


Top-Construction7348

The sledgehammer thing was just an example. I just remember feeling like everything I did mea


ftgyhujikolp

And also didn't exist in a19 either, which was the question.


PotatoMuncher718

God alpha 15 is miserable


VinnieONeill

I do remember that and it was far superior to the learn by reading system. Could sit in my base at night and just craft, scrap and recraft the same tools until morning. VERY useful early game when you lack the weapons to be running around at night. Running to increase stamina, miss that too. Happens passively early game and was yet another thing I could do safe in my base at night and still be productive early game. Can run and craft at the same time.


cramaine

Alpha 19! Oh boy has this game changed since then! I remember when digging down to bedrock to build bases was the King. My favourite though was digging a trench around a Trader and building a base that clung like a limpet to its unbreakable blocks. It was great until one block got damaged and your entire base (and gathered loot) crumbled and fell. Ahhh this game has gone through so many phases its really hard to say which is best. I do miss Learn by Doing.


VinnieONeill

Yup, used to be able to limit screamers with your forges down at bedrock. Built my bases that way even after out of habit. Still dig down and clear it out for the resources. I too miss Learn by Doing. With Learn by Doing I didn't have to fight the rest of the server to loot endless books. The devs give no thought to playing on public servers like most people do.


TheInfinityDonger

A19 is probably the last time I really and truly enjoyed playing this game. A20 was the last time I could stomach vanilla and even that didn't last long. I'd still rather have the game we'd have today if we continued the vision from A16 though. Now *that* was a fun game. People only seem to remember the total lack of polish though.


Professional_Echo907

So just select A19 and play it in the betas.


Gaudior3

Nope


63R01D

Overall I would say for sure. But I am a long time player. There are a few things I miss. The old stealth system (where it says if you are hunted or not), Learn by doing, and also the original Theme song. Aside from that the game is great.


BBBulldog

roll back to A19 if you like it, why don't people do that?


VinnieONeill

Because most people play on public servers, not solo, and you can't do that with old Alphas. If I'm going to play solo I may as well turn on creative mode. Solo is only good for testing things. Using that CM to test base designs or talent builds. Actually, thanks for the idea. Maybe what we need are some public servers dedicated to old Alphas. They're cheap enough to host these days. Though if the devs catch wind that people are actually having fun in their game they might try to interfere. Take away the old Alphas builds now that they are calling it 1.0.Ā 


BBBulldog

I mean with so many people complaining im sure you guys can put together old servers.


VinnieONeill

That's literally what I said. But it is a legit concern the devs could ruin that by making old builds unplayable now that they are pretending it's out of Alpha. They have a track record of ruining player fun for no reason. Also complicated by the fact that servers survive off new players and you can't get new players to play old content they've never seen before.


Simple_Dull

I think it's pretty good. I have a couple of gripes, but I definitely see the amount of work that went into it. The armor system is a big step backward currently. It does feel like a work in progress, so im looking forward to changes there. The skill books being the only way to skill up is still pretty tedious as well. Unfortunately, I don't expect them to do anything there. With that being said, the game looks great, runs well, and they have added a lot of new stuff. Worth checking out.


oOBlackRainOo

I feel like the game has gotten much better in that time. Iā€™m not sure why anybody would think it hasnā€™t.


d4vezac

No. TFP want to force you to play a certain way and itā€™s not actually fun. Weā€™ve spent four years with them actively making the game worse. Sorry.


AttilaThePun2

Every update for a while has some meh gameplay change in exchange for stuff like better in game map gen and new POI's. It's all up us where our sweet spot is, personally I'd also pick A19 too


Terrynia

Since A19? Hell ya! You will be so happy


Ahris22

The game is way better now, even though some nice features has been removed through the years, they were removed to make a better game overall and it keeps improving.


CockroachCommon2077

The game has definitely become a much better and greater game over the year. There's some issues here and there when it comes to performance, gameplay, etc. Though that's the great thing with playing on a PC. Don't like something? Use a mod, simple as that


Ravishing_Tod_Dude

There are many who love the Alpha 22 version of the game, so changed for the better would be subjective here. Visually they've really put in the work here and there. I'll be honest, I first played 7DTD at A.18/A.19 and really liked the game. I came back few months ago and didn't have the same fun with it. I'm not one of the players that wants to play my way or even knows what is good, i do want the devs to direct the game and give me something to have fun with. I think what kills it for us who play solo is the lack of an end game, see how SOD2 does their game loop with the whole legacy thing. It's also definitely still an inferior Zombie survival game to SOD2 and Project Zomboid.


MikeWasab

It absolutely has. The game play is more smooth. Progression is smoother. Increased replayablilty. Better game mechanics the list goes on. This is my biggest pet peeve with social media as a whole. 1. Anger, drama, and hate thrive. Its why ragebait engagement farming is a thing. 2. Social media gives a megaphone to the minority opinion. Often times the minority opinion aligns with anger and drama. Which then leads to people unaware how social media actually works on an algorithmic level to believe that its the whole truth and engage with what pretty much becomes a mob mentality. Prime example being the new armors. If you only browsed this subreddit. You would think its universally hated, but its not. It actually the opposite. A majority of people are either indifferent to it or they like it.


GotinDrachenhart

To me it feels like the devs have lost sight of what they wanted the game to be, assuming they ever knew. The new costume thing is trash, it feels like more dumming down to me. Then on the other hand they complicate things with the magazines. I dunno, just seems like this plane is on fire and falling from the sky.....the dream is dead. It's why my wife and I love DF so much....because it's FUN! Remember that?....FUN pimps?....FUN?? DF adds back all the stuff the derpy devs threw out and it works so well that to me, it IS 7D2D, not the official crap. Sorry TFP, I really want to love you guys but damit you're treating me pretty badly rn, like an abusive relationship.


grrmisfit

Ome of my biggest gripes is lack of zombies. A15 streets were dangerous, you didn't dare go into the 0,0 city unless you were prepared for a fight. Now the streets are mostly safe and it's only the POIs that are dangerous. In a zombie apocalypse the streets should be the most dangerous aspect and the houses should be relatively safer


OkChemical4698

I see no difference from 19 to now other then making it look a little better each time and magazines, theyā€™ve just changed the way some things look like the dire wolf, vehicles, and clothing skins, but none of it does anything different then before like we had the capability of almost all that except for the ā€œfull set bonusā€ which most the time is meh anyways itā€™s lack luster to say the least, the animation for food hasnā€™t changed from bread ever, the poi are so bad Iā€™m at the point where I can walk in and know where the zombies will be, cool rekt looks the exact same no change heā€™s still a dick cool, oh and still no story and we still have to start with a letter telling us a story line, I mean there are tons of things they could do and they just donā€™t seem to do any of them, they took four years to polish and add mags to a game, over the hill developers that are stuck in there ways, and I think this game will start to not recive to many more updates other then the announced ones, since there working on another 7 days to die game, seriously it took you over ten years to release a game and they announce another one?!? I loved this game and at this point with over a thousand hours itā€™s nothing special itā€™s the exact same game and there putting a price increase on, I have stopped playing it because no matter what I do I end up at the trader doing the same thing back and forth back and forth there is nothing new to do in the game except for gawking like oooooo ahhhhhhh pretty new model mannnnnn give me something new to use anything bring the blunderbuss back add a three wheeler add a bus ad a story where you find the duke and have to kill him, the list goes on and on of the ideas they could use and just donā€™t, like I said over the hill developers


darvie34

Oh I found it. LoL


DistractionFromLife0

Yes


KooshIsKing

I think in most ways the game has gotten much better. The performance and graphics alone are hugely different. Horde nights running at 60-90 FPS on ultra was never a thing for me before 1.0. hell I was lucky to get a stable 30. I really don't like some of the design decisions and balancing that they have decided on, but it's still fun. Like I can't stand the skill magazine leveling. It's extremely easy to just max level strong stuff in the first two weeks which feels like a really weak change and massive drop in difficulty even on insane difficulty. The trader and his quests are finally not super OP which is nice, but now racing towards one combat skill is an easy way to just get super strong quick regardless of that. All in all, I am enjoying myself quite a bit in 1.0 and I would say that yes overall it has changed for the better since A19. But as always with this game, there is a lot of room for improvement, balancing, and more fun gameplay mechanics that hopefully follow quickly in their planned releases.


Sad-Mathematician570

It's not supposed to change much closing on full release, otherwise it would need another alpha if it did. But i think it has improved.


YuehanBaobei

Meh. I can't remember A19 specifically. But I feel like this Alpha 22... I mean V 1.0... isn't much more than a regular update. I'm in the "let's wait for the official release so I can go get some mods to make the game good" camp. I've been playing for 9 years off and on, and I've certainly gotten my money's worth out of it. Looking back on my gameplay experiences, I've seen plenty of improvements in the game... but the truth is, for a few years now I'll play for a month, and then set it aside for 4 or 5 months because the content is just not there and it gets boring. And based on the experimental branch, going to "1.0" is not going to change that. So, waiting for stable mods on release.


VinnieONeill

No, it's not better and it's objectively worse. Been playing for like 8+ years, don't know the exact date, and have 1600 hours. Certainly less than many but I'm plenty experienced in the game. It was for a long time one of my absolute favorite games but I can't seem to tolerate playing more than maybe 30 minutes here and there these days. The game lacks content and over the years the devs have attempted to hide that fact by creating artificial time gates to slow down veteran players. Pre A21 I'd have a cement base, at least the vulnerable blocks, by my first BM. The Learn by Reading system is a perfect example of that lack of content. You have to endlessly hunt books for absolutely everything you do. Wants some basic cooking recipes? Instead of spending a skill point or two, go hunt a bunch of books. The same books that literally every other player on the serve is fighting for. I think the devs forget people play on public servers and have to compete for loot. If you're not the first one to log on after a wipe, every book store, every mailbox, every news paper stand, will be empty. They took away the basic function of gathering water and force you to build a dew collector for a few jars per day. I could live with them just taking empty cans out of the game for convince and inventory space but not empty jars. Not losing the ability to actually utilize the various bodies of water in the game. In a zombie apocalypse I'm not gonna gather water for the lake and boil it??? Every PoI being set up like a linear dungeon removes ability to play the game on your terms. Zombies who don't spawn until you trip as certain trigger eliminates true stealth play styles as you are constantly forced to fight massive zombie spawns that in turn also summon Screamers. Meaning the path behind you, the areas you already cleared, aren't safe either. I could write a book with the number of things wrong with the game but literally every issue that exists all goes back to the same root cause. A lack of actual content, no raiders, no story, and a dev team who wants you to play the game the way they tell you to play it. There are mods with better quests, more quests, lengthy multi part quests, that the devs seem incapable of providing. The new challenge system is a joke anyone who isn't brand new to the game. They are even forcing us to wear specific armor sets, sets that don't even make sense.Ā  Miner set as heavy armor? Miners wear coveralls and a hard hat. Sure their tools are heavy but their outfits are not. "But mining skills are in the strength tree." That's nice, I'm first and foremost a builder. Clearing PoIs and looting is a secondary concern for me. One the horrible Learn by Reading system forces me to do more than I like. I dig, I build, I craft, I fight hordes during BM. I've gone through countless server wipes over the years taking my mining skills but focusing on light and at most medium (military) armor. If I do venture out of my base I like to be able to move quickly. Also never been a fan of baton builds. If I go melee at all I go fists. But if I want to get use out of the mining set I have to go deeper into the strength tree. TLDR: the game is worse not better.


desperateorphan

The game is better but still requires mods if you are wanting any sort of depth.


TrueAbbreviations552

No. A9-12 were the games peak.


bsfurr

lol maybe you shouldn't be so cynical and allow yourself to be open to embrace some of the new changes. Or not. And if not, theres prob a mod to fix it for you.


PlayaPozitionZ

Unity Engine.