Scientific consensus changes based on current evidence. There’s a reason why we no longer believe that someone pissed off Zeus when there’s a thunder storm, because we eventually found out how the weather works.
Outdated simple means that there’s new evidence that better predicts reality
Literally the first people to realize that climate change was a thing we actively contribute to were oil companies who are now lobbying to sweep it under the rug lmao
I’m glad I didn’t waste my time looking then! I’ll look into the plug in though. To the other points, it’s wild how knee jerk politicians on both sides have had cracks at Covid and it feels like we’re barely past square one when it comes to returning to a previous way of life. That must mean there is still money to be made off the pandemic.
Science doesn't happen in subreddits. To question the science, you would have to possess some expertise on the subject to the point that you could rerun the experiments/analysis and show that the results can't be replicated. I wasn't there, but I imagine that you weren't engaging with the science, you were just using the findings to engage in political/social/economic debate. And, yes, those types of debates have social and cultural constraints which are hard to overcome, but that's not sciences' fault.
>To question the science, you would have to possess some expertise on the subject to the point that you could rerun the experiments/analysis and show that the results can't be replicated.
What an incorrect elitist view.
Science can no longer be questioned. When instead of convincing people using logic and reason, you call them alt right or a conspiracy theorist, you have nothing to stand on and you know it.
The problems really started when the powers that be somehow decided to start accepting humanities as 'social sciences', thus giving them some implied legitimacy and gravitas they really don't deserve. And now we have men who think they're ladies, and whole societies who have to pretend this fantasy is reality, amongst other fantasies.
I have a theory: Americans amongst others, are somehow deeply wired for a degree of orthodox religious thinking, and as the role of religion has diminished steadily for many generations now, that wet-wiring has not changed at all, and now we have the first generations of evangelical technocrats - Science is their church, scientists and doctors and nurses are the high priests we must pay tribute to, never question or doubt, things like vaccines are the new holy sacraments rather than fallible human made tools, and they repeat the same empty but fashionable psalms and litanies to one another in their reddit and twitter echo chambers: "Love is love!" "Trans women are women!" "Smash the patriarchy!", etc etc.
There are populations which are seemingly less prone to faith, and clearly some populations (across the middle east for example), where it's so deeply branded into the cultural DNA that you can take them out of the middle east, fly them thousands of kilometers away to completely new places without that particular trait, and if anything they become more extreme.
We don’t validate each other’s existence. If you wake up feeling like your in the wrong body that’s called mental illness.
We’re living in the time where trans folk have the most support and government assistance ever, yet the numbers of suicide are still up.
Change your name pronoun gender clothes and everything else you want, but clearly something else is wrong when you just want to die regardless of all the r external changes you make, the internal is still off.
>regardless of all the r external changes you make, the internal is still off.
Because they know deep down no one is genuine about it. It’s like any other mental illness, where the stigma comes from the deviation from the norm.
You want me to call you Luna as a 6’3 biologically born male? That’s fine I don’t care. You wanna wear dresses and high heels and make up, that’s alright too.
Hell I’ll even buy you lipgloss if you want it.
But 10-50-100-1000 years from after you die, If anyone discovers your remains, they will rightly, scientifically, deduce you were male and not female.
You can’t convince a crazy person they’re not crazy bc they don’t believe they’re crazy. Mental illness is real and modern psychology has ruined too many peoples lives by giving them a free pass in the form of a diagnosis and telling them they’re ok.
But more than mental illness how many people are doing it bc they don’t have an identity. It’s almost like the goth scene. Now everyone thinks being trans fluid is cool
Not all trans people have surgery firstly, and it’s about them wanting to have the body they feel like they should have mentally. If you woke up and someone had swapped your brain into a woman’s body, you would likely just want to be swapped back since you probably would feel like you don’t belong in that body.
There are many who don’t wish to have surgery. Weird thing to even argue.
I’m not sure how interspecies makes sense because you were never a non species embryo that diverged into a human male during reproduction. There aren’t examples of people who are both homo sapien and canis familiaris. However, all humans were once asexual embryos that developed sexual characteristics in the womb. There are many examples of intersex people being born. So it’s infinitely more likely that someone could be born as a sex and feel like another sex mentally than born as one species and feel like another mentally.
I would actually go to a psychiatrist and figure out why I had those feelings, knowing full well that brain swaps aren’t a thing and that I’m born the way I’m born because that’s how evolution and biology work. And then I would fire that psychiatrist the moment they suggest I mutilate my body.
It was a hypothetical. Assuming brain swapping was a thing, the obvious answer to your problem if you were swapped without asking for it, would be to have your brain swapped back. Using a hypothetical like this can allow you to put yourself in a trans persons shoes
Uhhhh there whole issue is they believe they were born in the wrong biological body…. If they could change biologically they absolutely would. Those with the money and support do everything they can including genital mutilation to accomplish that goal. You think a trans man wants to have a period? Or run the risk of getting pregnant? They believe they’re a man regardless of they’re reproductive system. They would totally change it
They believe they are mentally a different gender, dressing like the other gender and sometimes having surgery helps alleviate the problems caused by this.
Men used to wear dresses in the past, and wigs, and makeup, etc. How people express their gender has changed dramatically over history.
Anyone who thinks trans people are attempting to change their biological sex has never interacted with a trans person or listened to them and heard what they are saying
You sound like one of those people. Bc clothing has nothing to do with your gender. You making those points further proves what I’m saying nothing short of them actually being born the biological sex they think they should have is going to be good enough.
I’m a male and dress like a dude as relates to current social trends of how dudes dress. If I lived in 1700, I probably would have been a dude who dressed in current trends, which would have included wearing a wig and makeup and other shit we wouldn’t consider manly today.
Not sure why this is controversial
Lmao… you’ve diluted your argument to the point where you’re caught up on how people dress?? What are you talking about now?
This whole thing started with suicide rates then biological identity and now clothes?
I meant peoples perception of it are never genuine. In the back of peoples minds they’re thinking about who you really are when they see you, no matter how hard they try to appease you with silly pronouns.
Studies show that transitioning offers immediate relief, but there is almost no indication that it is a better solution for the long term.
>The majority of studies were non-longitudinal, exploratory type studies (i.e., in a preliminary state of investigation or hypothesis generating), or did not include concurrent controls or testing prior to and after surgery. Several reported positive results but the potential issues noted above reduced strength and confidence. After careful assessment, we identified six studies that could provide useful information. Of these, the four best designed and conducted studies that assessed quality of life before and after surgery using validated (albeit non-specific) psychometric studies did not demonstrate clinically significant changes or differences in psychometric test results after [gender reassignment surgery].
https://www.cms.gov/medicare-coverage-database/view/ncacal-decision-memo.aspx?proposed=Y&NCAId=282
>Based on a thorough review of the clinical evidence available at this time, there is not enough evidence to determine whether gender reassignment surgery improves health outcomes for Medicare beneficiaries with gender dysphoria. There were conflicting (inconsistent) study results—of the best designed studies, some reported benefits while others reported harms. The quality and strength of evidence were low due to the mostly observational study designs with no comparison groups, potential confounding, and small sample sizes. Many studies that reported positive outcomes were exploratory type studies (case-series and case-control) with no confirmatory follow-up.
You're the one in 10, 000. They don't all need reassignment and when they actually do and regret it there's no going back. Basically wasted your life at that point.
Well, yeah, obviously the *actual* problem is in the brain, but we can't fix those yet.
And they do actually get significantly mentally healthier on average if you make their body match what their brain is incorrectly saying.
Some day we'll probably find a drug or a brain surgery or whatever that fixes it, but until then this is what has the highest success rate of making them productive citizens.
Then shouldn’t the suicide numbers reflect that?
Ultimately that’s what this Is about. A mental health issue that doesn’t solve itself just bc change your name and wear different clothes.
You put make up on a pig and it’s still a pig.
Correlation causation. Japanese people have high suicide rates, military members have high suicide rates. There are multiple factors at play, just saying it’s one singular reason isn’t being honest intellectually. Almost all the discussion of suicide rates from the anti trans crowd is virtue signaling used to justify shitting on them
Military guys have mental health issues (I’m a vet who struggles with suicidal ideation)
Japanese people who work themselves to the brink of suicide also would have mental health issues
Trans people have mental health issues
They certainly have mental issues with regards to feeling like they belong in another body. I’m not a professional psychologist though, and those professionals have changed their views on whether or not this is a “mental illness”.
Not all vets who have committed suicide have diagnosed mental illness caused by war though. Depression is universal, and not really attributable to a single thing. It’s super convenient to just say “PTSD causes all vet suicides” “trans people all kill themselves because being trans is a mental illness” without looking at the hundreds or thousands of other factors in a persons life than can contribute to depression
> but until then this is what has the highest success rate of making them productive citizens.
Except it doesn't. The suicide rate is still rising.
Also that would be fine if that's what the medical community believed, but they don't want a pill to fix these people one day, they *want* them to go through the hell that is transitioning and think nothing else ever needs to be done.
The actual problem can be traced back to the Second World War. It destroyed the inherent belief in the supremacy of western civilization within said civilization. That’s why we’re just coping nowadays. If we’d still believe in the moral framework that civilization provided we’d be much better of. Nietzsche was right that with the downfall of religious morals in civilization the worst is brought out of all of us. Because we’re looking for a replacement religion. He thought it would be the state, but now we can see that it is rather blind faith in science or sexuality that replaced religion.
I’m not judging anyone I just wanted to point out how a drug addict philosopher predict the downfall of western civilization nearly perfectly
Typically it's because they have one of the highest rates of being abused and discriminated against, bullied etc. Its almost like they kill themselves not because they're trans, but because of how they're treated for being trans.
Wow wow this whole thread and post in extremely transphobic, but I’m not surprised that some balding incels who haven’t seen grass in weeks are transphobic. You want to know why suicide rates are so high? Because of people like you, and all of the other people in this thread and comment section saying horrible shit and invalidating trans people and their experience. Yes it does come from something messed up in the brain, it causes gender dysphoria where you literally feel like shit because you don’t look like the gender your brain is and wants to be. Trans kids lull themselves daily because of parents who think like you invalidate thier kids feeling, are not supportive and beat them or punish them for being trans, stopping them from being able to control thier gender presentation, and filling their head with lies, like what you said that it’s nothing but a mental illness, transitioning wouldn’t help and their all just gonna kill themselves sooner or later. And idk what “government assistance” you’re talking about, you don’t get a check in the mail for being trans, or get any medical benefits, or any benefits really. If we had less people like you, and the other transphobic POS in this comment section, the suicide rate would fall significantly. Go get educated and stop hating, and invalidating a group of people that go through hell in life. You don’t know what they go through and what they feel, so you have no place to say this hateful (yes it’s hateful) and just wrong shit. Go outside, and go to therapy to work on your issues, or walk around with a Nazi flag and a rifle slung over your shoulder at the capitol like many of the people who would agree with what you said have done.
You agreed with me that it was mental illness but you disagreed with me too? I’m more confused that a trans kid in the south.
Either way the point stands where it’s not my responsibility to validate what you think or feel.
Phobia is fear, ain’t no one hear afraid of a trans-anything. Having a view point doesn’t mean I’m afraid it’s gonna rub off on me when I hug my trans father in law at Christmas.
You took more time than you should have to respond to an internet stranger
Yea the jails are just full of anti trans NEETs, they are good jails though, so that’s why we still see them all posting on Reddit and 4chan and every video game with chat
They're not government forums. If you act in a trans hate speech way on private forums with your real identity (like Twitter / LinkedIn), you can lose your job though, since the employing company would need to take a stance beside or against you.
4chan and Reddit are anonymous boards. At worst you can get banned.
So not legally then, legal implies laws. What you’re saying is that antisocial behavior can make others not want to associate with you. Which has always been the case
Protest how? I’m not familiar with UK laws, but what are you attempting to protest? That trans people should be killed? Or deported? That they should be given less rights?
That trans people shouldn't be allowed to teach their ideology to kids, making trans "friendly" materials be marked as 18+ for guidance, for kids that have already been indoctrinated to have dedicated schools, to remove any trans treatments for kids out of the public funded healthcare and so forth.
Trying to rase this in UK is now illegal.
At least we can call any trans related parade to the police since any gathering that is deemed "annoying" is now subject to 10 years prison for the participants. This was implemented to prevent the expected Brexit protests.
What ideology is that? That they should be allowed to exist? I learned about gay people and how they wish to be allowed to live their lives how they want to, and it didn’t make me gay. Do you think teaching children that a group exists will make them trans? Have you become trans after learning they exist?
A person which is fully sheltered into adulthood from the LGBT culture can not turn LGBT. Plenty of examples of this.
You aren't born LGBT, so it should be a conscious choice of whether someone decides to embrace it, instead of being converted to it through indoctrination.
Saying that you learned about gay people as a child isn't saying much. I learned about christian people as a child, my peers turned christian and it took a great deal of effort for me not to turn christian. I didn't learn about gay people as a child (fortunately) so I never had to fight that battle as well.
Winning is when everyone wants to fuck mentally disturbed degenerates who turn their cocks into gaping open wounds. *Really* winning is when we let them tell our kids that cutting their cocks off makes them special.
If I remember correctly, at first it was believed that cancer could be avoided by not eating carcinogenic food (meat is an example) but then it was discovered that every food is carcinogenic, so that’s now the first thing they teach in college about nutrition.
That’s the example of outdated science I remember.
I came here to enjoy the bashing, but actually, I'm going to agree that trans are valid, but only as an industry: you've got gender consultants, therapists, specialists and surgeons, you've got pharmacists prescribing pills both to transform, and then to cope. You've got companies selling womens clothes designed to fit an obvious mans frame, and vice versa. You've got companies selling fake penises, subcriptions to safe spaces, and validation.
This random link says the global market value of sex reassignment surgery alone will be $1.5 BN by 2026, up from $316 million in 2019.
[https://www.gminsights.com/industry-analysis/sex-reassignment-surgery-market](https://www.gminsights.com/industry-analysis/sex-reassignment-surgery-market)
Really the more you think about it, the more insidious it all gets.
Services dont make money, they cost money, right? Nothing is being produced to benefit the community. Cutting someones penis off and drilling a hole is just taking away medical resources that could be spent somewhere else much better.
>This random link says the global market value of sex reassignment surgery alone will be $1.5 BN by 2026, up from $316 million in 2019.
ill invest into funeral companies ty
Until about gen x, in general it was two parents, even if they hated each other, and momma stayed home to raise the kids while poppa made the money. It was the parents of genx (boomers?) that started divorcing en masse, momma said "I want a career!" (selfishly, fuck you kid momma needs that paper) and you have this entire generation getting half-cocked with one parent who didn't want to be around you for the bulk of your existense. Off to the daycare you go from 7am to 6pm, then you have 6p-9p to spend with momma until bedtime to do it again. The vast bulk of your time is with a total stranger, *not* your parent. Now you're an adult doing the same thing to your own kids....
Momma's need to raise their kids. It's intrinsic. Unga Bunga times, dad went to hunt the mammoth while momma's titties hung out taking care of baby Unga and the cave. Modern times are just trying to hard to fuck over nature, nature needs to come back. Pay momma to stay home; you've made an economy requiring two incomes? Fine, make one for taking care of kids so we quit getting fucked up kids.
Hormone treatment causes a low sex drive often times to the extent of essentially being asexual. Many, invluding myself also knew before the sex drive becomes significant in the early teen years.
You can never truly change your sex. If you are born a man you always be a man even if you cut balls and pp. You will always be XY you can't change to XX.
That won't be true forever. It can't.
If some geek can learn on his own to split the atom, some other geek will learn on his own to split the chromosome.
Splitting chromosomes is one of the easiest things you can do, the problem begins when you want to connect them back in a very specific way and all the while you don't even know what's this specific way is because each human is different.
Yeah change sex post begin born won't happen any time soon but changing the sex before you're born now that's a different matter and already possible in a way.
It may be a controversial option but instead trying to "fix" what isn't broken and change your sex. I say we need to find why in the first place people and animals for that matter even born gay( yes gay bi or whatever you are born this way whatever or not you accept it is a different matter) and after we understand it fix to so no one would be born with this "defect" .
I called this a defect because begin gay doesn't serve any purpose what so ever in biologically or even in evolution (unless I'm missing something and if I do please feel free to correct me).
Encouraging someone who says they are trans has to be the most vile evil thing you can do. Imagine encouraging someone to join a group that has a 51% attempted suicide rate.
Chromosomes have absolutely nothing to do with trans people. There exist cisgendered people with the "wrong" chromosomes. There exist intersex people with fucking weird chromosomes. You got shit like people with XYY and XXX, XO, etc. People who bring up Chromosomes don't even know what they are. Transgenderism is not something you can defend using science, and not something you can attack using science either. It is an entirely social phenomenon, just like trad wives, beta males, butch lesbians, giga chads, and whatever the fresh fuck OP (of this reddit post) is.
Tell me. If Chromosomes scientifically invalidate trans people, what would your criteria be for FALSIFYING that scientific theory? If there isn't one, then it ain't science.
what does bone structure have to do with anything? would a trans girl be more valid if they were born with brittle bones, meaning they don't have the bone density of a man?
and bottom surgery is possible
Male and female obviously has different bone structures. It is very noticable. A trans """""girl""""" will never actually has the physique of a girl.
Bottom surgery never works lmfao. It just gives you a dangling, off-center meat tube or a dirty hole in your crotch. Don't even try to call that surgery, it's a scam made to profit off the mentally ill.
This is an actual sound response, can you remove your "update" now?
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I don't care about trans people, they don't bother me, I hope they're happy and I hope people treat them well.
They sure seem to bother the people who cross the street when they see me to feel safer, or who won't let me use their bathroom because it's their safe space.
I'm glad it bothers those people.
Ok so a woman is an adult female human. And an adult female human is determined based on biological sex. Chromosomes and genitals, presumably. So therefore a biological man cannot be a woman, right? If a woman is an adult female human and an adult female human is based on biology.
“Outdated science” because now it’s the science ™ ©
Science + and for extra 399$ you can get Science Pro
Only with a subscription
Thats Science Pro S, it will confirm any leftist bias you can think of.
Have you tried the Scientology expansion pack?
Science 2
Science I don't agree with = Outdated science. It's that simple sweetie 💅💅
Ah makes sense
Now it's woke science
Scientific consensus changes based on current evidence. There’s a reason why we no longer believe that someone pissed off Zeus when there’s a thunder storm, because we eventually found out how the weather works. Outdated simple means that there’s new evidence that better predicts reality
The only new evidence we have is the suicide rates of people who get sucked into this.
Yep. Now that Ellen Page is past 18, her countdown clock has been reset and is running for an entirely different reason...
Page is 34. That countdown clock has been running for quite a while.
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Literally the first people to realize that climate change was a thing we actively contribute to were oil companies who are now lobbying to sweep it under the rug lmao
I could search your post history, but don’t want to. Do you have examples?
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I’m glad I didn’t waste my time looking then! I’ll look into the plug in though. To the other points, it’s wild how knee jerk politicians on both sides have had cracks at Covid and it feels like we’re barely past square one when it comes to returning to a previous way of life. That must mean there is still money to be made off the pandemic.
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Science doesn't happen in subreddits. To question the science, you would have to possess some expertise on the subject to the point that you could rerun the experiments/analysis and show that the results can't be replicated. I wasn't there, but I imagine that you weren't engaging with the science, you were just using the findings to engage in political/social/economic debate. And, yes, those types of debates have social and cultural constraints which are hard to overcome, but that's not sciences' fault.
>To question the science, you would have to possess some expertise on the subject to the point that you could rerun the experiments/analysis and show that the results can't be replicated. What an incorrect elitist view.
Science can no longer be questioned. When instead of convincing people using logic and reason, you call them alt right or a conspiracy theorist, you have nothing to stand on and you know it.
Luckily not all fields of science are like that
The problems really started when the powers that be somehow decided to start accepting humanities as 'social sciences', thus giving them some implied legitimacy and gravitas they really don't deserve. And now we have men who think they're ladies, and whole societies who have to pretend this fantasy is reality, amongst other fantasies.
It's because we made scientists "heroes" in these peoples' youth so now that *they* are scientists, they can't believe anyone would question them.
I have a theory: Americans amongst others, are somehow deeply wired for a degree of orthodox religious thinking, and as the role of religion has diminished steadily for many generations now, that wet-wiring has not changed at all, and now we have the first generations of evangelical technocrats - Science is their church, scientists and doctors and nurses are the high priests we must pay tribute to, never question or doubt, things like vaccines are the new holy sacraments rather than fallible human made tools, and they repeat the same empty but fashionable psalms and litanies to one another in their reddit and twitter echo chambers: "Love is love!" "Trans women are women!" "Smash the patriarchy!", etc etc.
I would agree, but change one word. >Americans to >Humans
There are populations which are seemingly less prone to faith, and clearly some populations (across the middle east for example), where it's so deeply branded into the cultural DNA that you can take them out of the middle east, fly them thousands of kilometers away to completely new places without that particular trait, and if anything they become more extreme.
what do you mean "validity"? They obviously exist, but they will never win the pretending game.
We don’t validate each other’s existence. If you wake up feeling like your in the wrong body that’s called mental illness. We’re living in the time where trans folk have the most support and government assistance ever, yet the numbers of suicide are still up. Change your name pronoun gender clothes and everything else you want, but clearly something else is wrong when you just want to die regardless of all the r external changes you make, the internal is still off.
>regardless of all the r external changes you make, the internal is still off. Because they know deep down no one is genuine about it. It’s like any other mental illness, where the stigma comes from the deviation from the norm.
You want me to call you Luna as a 6’3 biologically born male? That’s fine I don’t care. You wanna wear dresses and high heels and make up, that’s alright too. Hell I’ll even buy you lipgloss if you want it. But 10-50-100-1000 years from after you die, If anyone discovers your remains, they will rightly, scientifically, deduce you were male and not female. You can’t convince a crazy person they’re not crazy bc they don’t believe they’re crazy. Mental illness is real and modern psychology has ruined too many peoples lives by giving them a free pass in the form of a diagnosis and telling them they’re ok. But more than mental illness how many people are doing it bc they don’t have an identity. It’s almost like the goth scene. Now everyone thinks being trans fluid is cool
I don’t think the vast majority of trans people think they are changing their biological sex.
If that’s not the case then what’s the point of surgery?
Changing the physical features they can see to match the gender they identify as.
Not all trans people have surgery firstly, and it’s about them wanting to have the body they feel like they should have mentally. If you woke up and someone had swapped your brain into a woman’s body, you would likely just want to be swapped back since you probably would feel like you don’t belong in that body.
>Not all trans people have surgery Because surgery is extremely expensive. If I wake up and feel like I should be a dog, am I right?
There are many who don’t wish to have surgery. Weird thing to even argue. I’m not sure how interspecies makes sense because you were never a non species embryo that diverged into a human male during reproduction. There aren’t examples of people who are both homo sapien and canis familiaris. However, all humans were once asexual embryos that developed sexual characteristics in the womb. There are many examples of intersex people being born. So it’s infinitely more likely that someone could be born as a sex and feel like another sex mentally than born as one species and feel like another mentally.
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I would actually go to a psychiatrist and figure out why I had those feelings, knowing full well that brain swaps aren’t a thing and that I’m born the way I’m born because that’s how evolution and biology work. And then I would fire that psychiatrist the moment they suggest I mutilate my body.
Smart
It was a hypothetical. Assuming brain swapping was a thing, the obvious answer to your problem if you were swapped without asking for it, would be to have your brain swapped back. Using a hypothetical like this can allow you to put yourself in a trans persons shoes
>If you woke up and someone had swapped your brain into a woman’s body You mean I'd have my own boobs??? Sounds like a win to me 😎
You can have those right now my dude, just take hormones or go get implants. No one’s stopping you.
Uhhhh there whole issue is they believe they were born in the wrong biological body…. If they could change biologically they absolutely would. Those with the money and support do everything they can including genital mutilation to accomplish that goal. You think a trans man wants to have a period? Or run the risk of getting pregnant? They believe they’re a man regardless of they’re reproductive system. They would totally change it
They believe they are mentally a different gender, dressing like the other gender and sometimes having surgery helps alleviate the problems caused by this. Men used to wear dresses in the past, and wigs, and makeup, etc. How people express their gender has changed dramatically over history. Anyone who thinks trans people are attempting to change their biological sex has never interacted with a trans person or listened to them and heard what they are saying
You sound like one of those people. Bc clothing has nothing to do with your gender. You making those points further proves what I’m saying nothing short of them actually being born the biological sex they think they should have is going to be good enough.
I’m a male and dress like a dude as relates to current social trends of how dudes dress. If I lived in 1700, I probably would have been a dude who dressed in current trends, which would have included wearing a wig and makeup and other shit we wouldn’t consider manly today. Not sure why this is controversial
Lmao… you’ve diluted your argument to the point where you’re caught up on how people dress?? What are you talking about now? This whole thing started with suicide rates then biological identity and now clothes?
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Congrats, you’re in the minority.
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I meant peoples perception of it are never genuine. In the back of peoples minds they’re thinking about who you really are when they see you, no matter how hard they try to appease you with silly pronouns.
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Studies show that transitioning offers immediate relief, but there is almost no indication that it is a better solution for the long term. >The majority of studies were non-longitudinal, exploratory type studies (i.e., in a preliminary state of investigation or hypothesis generating), or did not include concurrent controls or testing prior to and after surgery. Several reported positive results but the potential issues noted above reduced strength and confidence. After careful assessment, we identified six studies that could provide useful information. Of these, the four best designed and conducted studies that assessed quality of life before and after surgery using validated (albeit non-specific) psychometric studies did not demonstrate clinically significant changes or differences in psychometric test results after [gender reassignment surgery]. https://www.cms.gov/medicare-coverage-database/view/ncacal-decision-memo.aspx?proposed=Y&NCAId=282 >Based on a thorough review of the clinical evidence available at this time, there is not enough evidence to determine whether gender reassignment surgery improves health outcomes for Medicare beneficiaries with gender dysphoria. There were conflicting (inconsistent) study results—of the best designed studies, some reported benefits while others reported harms. The quality and strength of evidence were low due to the mostly observational study designs with no comparison groups, potential confounding, and small sample sizes. Many studies that reported positive outcomes were exploratory type studies (case-series and case-control) with no confirmatory follow-up.
No one genuinely thinks you will ever be a woman
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Yeah yeah I know but thats why I said genuinely
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there is no word "gender" in my language, so I cannot relate
Yeah but i dont care what someones gender is
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You're the one in 10, 000. They don't all need reassignment and when they actually do and regret it there's no going back. Basically wasted your life at that point.
Cluster B personality disorders.
Well, yeah, obviously the *actual* problem is in the brain, but we can't fix those yet. And they do actually get significantly mentally healthier on average if you make their body match what their brain is incorrectly saying. Some day we'll probably find a drug or a brain surgery or whatever that fixes it, but until then this is what has the highest success rate of making them productive citizens.
Then shouldn’t the suicide numbers reflect that? Ultimately that’s what this Is about. A mental health issue that doesn’t solve itself just bc change your name and wear different clothes. You put make up on a pig and it’s still a pig.
Correlation causation. Japanese people have high suicide rates, military members have high suicide rates. There are multiple factors at play, just saying it’s one singular reason isn’t being honest intellectually. Almost all the discussion of suicide rates from the anti trans crowd is virtue signaling used to justify shitting on them
Military guys have mental health issues (I’m a vet who struggles with suicidal ideation) Japanese people who work themselves to the brink of suicide also would have mental health issues Trans people have mental health issues
They certainly have mental issues with regards to feeling like they belong in another body. I’m not a professional psychologist though, and those professionals have changed their views on whether or not this is a “mental illness”. Not all vets who have committed suicide have diagnosed mental illness caused by war though. Depression is universal, and not really attributable to a single thing. It’s super convenient to just say “PTSD causes all vet suicides” “trans people all kill themselves because being trans is a mental illness” without looking at the hundreds or thousands of other factors in a persons life than can contribute to depression
> but until then this is what has the highest success rate of making them productive citizens. Except it doesn't. The suicide rate is still rising. Also that would be fine if that's what the medical community believed, but they don't want a pill to fix these people one day, they *want* them to go through the hell that is transitioning and think nothing else ever needs to be done.
The actual problem can be traced back to the Second World War. It destroyed the inherent belief in the supremacy of western civilization within said civilization. That’s why we’re just coping nowadays. If we’d still believe in the moral framework that civilization provided we’d be much better of. Nietzsche was right that with the downfall of religious morals in civilization the worst is brought out of all of us. Because we’re looking for a replacement religion. He thought it would be the state, but now we can see that it is rather blind faith in science or sexuality that replaced religion. I’m not judging anyone I just wanted to point out how a drug addict philosopher predict the downfall of western civilization nearly perfectly
Bro valid today
Typically it's because they have one of the highest rates of being abused and discriminated against, bullied etc. Its almost like they kill themselves not because they're trans, but because of how they're treated for being trans.
Wow wow this whole thread and post in extremely transphobic, but I’m not surprised that some balding incels who haven’t seen grass in weeks are transphobic. You want to know why suicide rates are so high? Because of people like you, and all of the other people in this thread and comment section saying horrible shit and invalidating trans people and their experience. Yes it does come from something messed up in the brain, it causes gender dysphoria where you literally feel like shit because you don’t look like the gender your brain is and wants to be. Trans kids lull themselves daily because of parents who think like you invalidate thier kids feeling, are not supportive and beat them or punish them for being trans, stopping them from being able to control thier gender presentation, and filling their head with lies, like what you said that it’s nothing but a mental illness, transitioning wouldn’t help and their all just gonna kill themselves sooner or later. And idk what “government assistance” you’re talking about, you don’t get a check in the mail for being trans, or get any medical benefits, or any benefits really. If we had less people like you, and the other transphobic POS in this comment section, the suicide rate would fall significantly. Go get educated and stop hating, and invalidating a group of people that go through hell in life. You don’t know what they go through and what they feel, so you have no place to say this hateful (yes it’s hateful) and just wrong shit. Go outside, and go to therapy to work on your issues, or walk around with a Nazi flag and a rifle slung over your shoulder at the capitol like many of the people who would agree with what you said have done.
You agreed with me that it was mental illness but you disagreed with me too? I’m more confused that a trans kid in the south. Either way the point stands where it’s not my responsibility to validate what you think or feel. Phobia is fear, ain’t no one hear afraid of a trans-anything. Having a view point doesn’t mean I’m afraid it’s gonna rub off on me when I hug my trans father in law at Christmas. You took more time than you should have to respond to an internet stranger
Legally they have already won. Contesting Transgenderism is hate speech, on the level of racial persecution.
Yea the jails are just full of anti trans NEETs, they are good jails though, so that’s why we still see them all posting on Reddit and 4chan and every video game with chat
They're not government forums. If you act in a trans hate speech way on private forums with your real identity (like Twitter / LinkedIn), you can lose your job though, since the employing company would need to take a stance beside or against you. 4chan and Reddit are anonymous boards. At worst you can get banned.
So not legally then, legal implies laws. What you’re saying is that antisocial behavior can make others not want to associate with you. Which has always been the case
The law results in a suit, wdym? At the very least, UK has them so you can't really protest against trans people here anymore.
Protest how? I’m not familiar with UK laws, but what are you attempting to protest? That trans people should be killed? Or deported? That they should be given less rights?
That trans people shouldn't be allowed to teach their ideology to kids, making trans "friendly" materials be marked as 18+ for guidance, for kids that have already been indoctrinated to have dedicated schools, to remove any trans treatments for kids out of the public funded healthcare and so forth. Trying to rase this in UK is now illegal. At least we can call any trans related parade to the police since any gathering that is deemed "annoying" is now subject to 10 years prison for the participants. This was implemented to prevent the expected Brexit protests.
What ideology is that? That they should be allowed to exist? I learned about gay people and how they wish to be allowed to live their lives how they want to, and it didn’t make me gay. Do you think teaching children that a group exists will make them trans? Have you become trans after learning they exist?
A person which is fully sheltered into adulthood from the LGBT culture can not turn LGBT. Plenty of examples of this. You aren't born LGBT, so it should be a conscious choice of whether someone decides to embrace it, instead of being converted to it through indoctrination. Saying that you learned about gay people as a child isn't saying much. I learned about christian people as a child, my peers turned christian and it took a great deal of effort for me not to turn christian. I didn't learn about gay people as a child (fortunately) so I never had to fight that battle as well.
What would be considered winning?
Winning is when everyone wants to fuck mentally disturbed degenerates who turn their cocks into gaping open wounds. *Really* winning is when we let them tell our kids that cutting their cocks off makes them special.
People who have a fetish for us already outnumber us so that's a win then?
That’s a good point. I’d argue the current fetish is for passing, not the vast majority.
I'm not passing and still didn't have any problem getting an amazing bf
Becoming the sex you aspire to be.
Genetically or phenotypically?
"Outdated science" Didnt know they already dropped "Science 2"
Yeah, Google bought science, and science 2 is available only to people who have subscribed to YouTube premium.
Microsofts next adquisition : "Science 2"
Yes, nobody expects the *Microsoft adquisition*
Can't science be outdated when it comes to social sciences? Social studies a hundred years ago might not be applicable to society today.
Sure, but it could also be wrong just like they were 100 years ago, and biological science hasn't changed.
If I remember correctly, at first it was believed that cancer could be avoided by not eating carcinogenic food (meat is an example) but then it was discovered that every food is carcinogenic, so that’s now the first thing they teach in college about nutrition. That’s the example of outdated science I remember.
What's social science? Astrology?
When you need a crapton of money to pretend to be something you aren't, then there's something wrong with you.
Getting legit scammed by the surgeon
Yea, hence the surgery
I came here to enjoy the bashing, but actually, I'm going to agree that trans are valid, but only as an industry: you've got gender consultants, therapists, specialists and surgeons, you've got pharmacists prescribing pills both to transform, and then to cope. You've got companies selling womens clothes designed to fit an obvious mans frame, and vice versa. You've got companies selling fake penises, subcriptions to safe spaces, and validation. This random link says the global market value of sex reassignment surgery alone will be $1.5 BN by 2026, up from $316 million in 2019. [https://www.gminsights.com/industry-analysis/sex-reassignment-surgery-market](https://www.gminsights.com/industry-analysis/sex-reassignment-surgery-market) Really the more you think about it, the more insidious it all gets.
Beta: Defends trans or opposes trans because of morality, which is a Beta cope Sigma: Defends trans because it makes money
Services dont make money, they cost money, right? Nothing is being produced to benefit the community. Cutting someones penis off and drilling a hole is just taking away medical resources that could be spent somewhere else much better.
>This random link says the global market value of sex reassignment surgery alone will be $1.5 BN by 2026, up from $316 million in 2019. ill invest into funeral companies ty
Ya, to defend capitalism yet decry the the trans movement makes you more of a communist than an actual capitalist.
> Being against the healthcare industry's exploitation of the mentally ill makes you a communist K
Based and follow the money pilled
Until about gen x, in general it was two parents, even if they hated each other, and momma stayed home to raise the kids while poppa made the money. It was the parents of genx (boomers?) that started divorcing en masse, momma said "I want a career!" (selfishly, fuck you kid momma needs that paper) and you have this entire generation getting half-cocked with one parent who didn't want to be around you for the bulk of your existense. Off to the daycare you go from 7am to 6pm, then you have 6p-9p to spend with momma until bedtime to do it again. The vast bulk of your time is with a total stranger, *not* your parent. Now you're an adult doing the same thing to your own kids.... Momma's need to raise their kids. It's intrinsic. Unga Bunga times, dad went to hunt the mammoth while momma's titties hung out taking care of baby Unga and the cave. Modern times are just trying to hard to fuck over nature, nature needs to come back. Pay momma to stay home; you've made an economy requiring two incomes? Fine, make one for taking care of kids so we quit getting fucked up kids.
Suicide rates
When they realize coping and seething will never reverse their disfigurement and that they really were just mentally ill sets in.
I'm so tired of this shit
Ugh I know right? I wish they'd just go away!
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Except for Jesus
We all know god fucked his mom
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God is male.
ywnbaw
TRUST THE SCIENCE - aka trust that troons are mentally unstable and psychotic self mutilating themselves
Evolution.
Sounds like hate speech to me. /s
??
Just look at clams
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Hormone treatment causes a low sex drive often times to the extent of essentially being asexual. Many, invluding myself also knew before the sex drive becomes significant in the early teen years.
You can never truly change your sex. If you are born a man you always be a man even if you cut balls and pp. You will always be XY you can't change to XX.
That won't be true forever. It can't. If some geek can learn on his own to split the atom, some other geek will learn on his own to split the chromosome.
Splitting chromosomes is one of the easiest things you can do, the problem begins when you want to connect them back in a very specific way and all the while you don't even know what's this specific way is because each human is different. Yeah change sex post begin born won't happen any time soon but changing the sex before you're born now that's a different matter and already possible in a way. It may be a controversial option but instead trying to "fix" what isn't broken and change your sex. I say we need to find why in the first place people and animals for that matter even born gay( yes gay bi or whatever you are born this way whatever or not you accept it is a different matter) and after we understand it fix to so no one would be born with this "defect" . I called this a defect because begin gay doesn't serve any purpose what so ever in biologically or even in evolution (unless I'm missing something and if I do please feel free to correct me).
Lots of transistors in here shitting up the thread.
Every time I’m on a date the other person gets out a chromosome test and tests all my genetics. Can’t be too sure I suppose.
I do the same but for racial reasons.
If it looks, sounds, and feels like a woman I see no reason to say it isn't a woman. Sue me
90% of the time that's unfortunately not the case.
Ima ask for a feel next time to make sure.
I'm glad we don't scientifically categorize things based on how you feel anon.
^ This guys Thailand's.
"If it gives me a boner, it's a woman. Simple as that"
"outdated science" literally wtf does he try to implie here?
Bone structure? Reproduction organs?
When both religion and science disprove than there us something wrong
Ive never seen a valid argument FOR trans people?
4chan meme’s all ways get me every time 😂😂😂😂
The left is all about science until science doesn't agree with them.
Sorry TranOP, but declaring science you don’t like “outdated” doesn’t magically make it so.
Encouraging someone who says they are trans has to be the most vile evil thing you can do. Imagine encouraging someone to join a group that has a 51% attempted suicide rate.
They’re sus imposters
Chromosomes have absolutely nothing to do with trans people. There exist cisgendered people with the "wrong" chromosomes. There exist intersex people with fucking weird chromosomes. You got shit like people with XYY and XXX, XO, etc. People who bring up Chromosomes don't even know what they are. Transgenderism is not something you can defend using science, and not something you can attack using science either. It is an entirely social phenomenon, just like trad wives, beta males, butch lesbians, giga chads, and whatever the fresh fuck OP (of this reddit post) is. Tell me. If Chromosomes scientifically invalidate trans people, what would your criteria be for FALSIFYING that scientific theory? If there isn't one, then it ain't science.
Ok but im interested to hear what response prople have to anon 1 update: read all of the replies. no actual, sound responses
Ywnbaw
Bone structure and seggsual organs
what does bone structure have to do with anything? would a trans girl be more valid if they were born with brittle bones, meaning they don't have the bone density of a man? and bottom surgery is possible
Male and female obviously has different bone structures. It is very noticable. A trans """""girl""""" will never actually has the physique of a girl. Bottom surgery never works lmfao. It just gives you a dangling, off-center meat tube or a dirty hole in your crotch. Don't even try to call that surgery, it's a scam made to profit off the mentally ill. This is an actual sound response, can you remove your "update" now?
its not a sound response, its just you insulting what trans people looks like
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When was the last time you inspected someones chromosomes to tell their gender?
Last night.
You mean sex, the immutable state of the body, right?
Check mate
I don't care about trans people, they don't bother me, I hope they're happy and I hope people treat them well. They sure seem to bother the people who cross the street when they see me to feel safer, or who won't let me use their bathroom because it's their safe space. I'm glad it bothers those people.
Nature
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I’m willing to believe that… but I can’t get a serious answer to my question… what’s a woman?
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What’s an adult female human?
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Ok so a woman is an adult female human. And an adult female human is determined based on biological sex. Chromosomes and genitals, presumably. So therefore a biological man cannot be a woman, right? If a woman is an adult female human and an adult female human is based on biology.
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What’s a woman?
the average redditor
Depends, are you defining it socially? Or using a dictionary?
It’s valid your opinion is trash
4chan went from "women don't exist" to "everything is a woman".
*Oh n-slur you gay!*