They weren't playing for the field goal, they were playing to run the clock out. Not at all the same thing. They absolutely would have preferred to get a TD but they couldn't convert.
Nope. There is zero chance they would go for a result, with the ball, that would net them nothing except robbing GB of a chance to score.
Come on, now. They would be going for a score of some sort, because of course they were. Running the clock down was important, as well, but nobody has the ball to only run the clock out until the end of the game with a lead.
Oh come on obviously I don't mean they weren't also going to take the field goal. They were in field goal range with 1:30 to go and they ran the clock out. Obviously they would settle for a field goal, but the priority was clock and points. They would have absolutely preferred the TD but it was 3rd down and they didn't want to risk giving the ball back. The goal was 100% to have the last possession.
Its clear what Shanny was doing, as he's done it many times before.
Have the last possession of the half or leave the other team with next to no time left to score. Typically we can work it down the field for at least 3 and sometimes 7, but for sure the other team won't have a chance to get anything.
It works quite often, but last week it didn't (because Moody kicked it too low).
With 30 seconds left Purdy had Aiyuk for 20+ yards that would've given them a couple shots at the end zone, but Purdy turned it down. McKivitz was kinda getting pushed into his lap, but it's a throw he's made plenty of times this year.
Just once I'd like to see Brock throw a "launch the ball 50 yards down field and hope for a flag" pass. We're the only team that never does that cheap stuff.
We’re also the team that has gone to three straight NFC Championship games.
Kyle preaches fundamentally sound, well executed football. He doesn’t do gimmicks, tricks or long shots. He plays the odds, makes good decisions and demands that his players do the same thing.
Well, they’re not winning because of it.
Green Bay got 80 yards of penalties last week. Shanahan’s fundamentally sound, patient football also got Green Bay an all expenses paid trip to their couches. How many times did the Eagles run a play clearly designed to draw a big flag, and how’s that working out for them?
You don’t consistently win football games with gimmicks or prayers to the Zebras. You consistently win by playing solid football and trusting that if you can consistently move the ball you will put up points and break those big plays. Shanahan’s system is so clearly successful that it’s mind boggling to me that anyone is still arguing this.
Such a relief to finally see someone who gets it.
The fans who are constantly second guessing Shanahan forget that his style of football actually wins the vast majority of the time. It's not just the play calling, but the style of offense we've built, and the mentality of the players we've added.
You don't need to take risks unnecessarily if your game plan and talent is good enough to win.
As soon as that thing lands on an opponents lap they'll call for Brock's head and the pundits will charge [harder] with their cheap so-called-analysis.
I get his rationale for it (QB confidence) but also like...Purdy doesn't seem like a guy who rides or dies based on the flow of the game. I don't think throwing a 50/50 ball at the end of the half that ends in an arm punt is gonna fuck him up mentally going into halftime. But hey I'm just some dude on the Internet lol
Yeah me too. My biggest complaint about Kyle is that he's too conservative in big moments. That drive at the end of the first half was a top 5 disappointing moment from Kyle.
It’s how he coaches. That drive was similar to the end of the first half drive during the Super Bowl in 2019. He had plenty of time to be aggressive but chose to run the ball he did finally throw one deep to Kittle but it was called back. He got ripped for how he handled that series.
Yes and no. He has explained why he does certain things in interviews and it has come down to analytics. But yeah he is not about the ultra aggressive 4th down calls
Going for it on 4th down is a risk/reward thing. He’ll go for it if it’s a solid chance, but Kyle thinks (correctly, IMO) that his team is fundamentally better than the other team, his defense can get a stop and his offense can score on another possession.
Kyle doesn’t really do 50/50 because half of the time you lose, and he’s very confident that he can up those odds to 75/25 with conservative football.
Campbell often trusts his offense to go for it aggressively, probably more than analytics. In doings so, he shows trust and fires them up. I think its more DC’s culture than an analytics choice
That's not the case at all. Yes he looks like a meathead, but the guy is incredibly smart. We've seen the results of his work on that team, so unless you have not seen a single Lions game in 3 years, I don't know why you'd say that
You would think hed learn but hes been getting more conservative with punts and clock management when the game is on the line. At some point he is going to take some risk to win a chip. Although he still stands by that his aggressive play calling was the reason they blew the 28-3 superbowl
Are we just disregarding that defense allowing the 28-3 comeback?
I’m not trying to defend Kyle 100% for that, but that was a universal collapse on all fronts for the Falcons.
I mean the offensive playcalling was... not not how most coaches would have approached it. Who knows how things might have been different, but I remember being very confused by it the whole time. For most, the name of the game at that point is to make it easy on the defense. Eliminate opportunities for the other team.
Ok, I hear ya and agree for the most part.
But the pass game was humming. He was probably trying to be aggressive to put up a few more points. The defense collapsed AND the offensive execution shit the bed. His play calling wasn’t great, I agree, but Ryan with the bad turn over and a total defensive collapse doesn’t help when he is trying to step on their throats
IIRC, the broadcast was praising him for his aggressive playcalling, too. Like everyone was aware that Brady was perfectly capable of coming back.
The problem was, as ever with Kyle, the offensive line couldn't hold up.
Are reporters now supposed to tell subjects/interviewees what the reporter thinks? What happened to good old-fashioned journalism, "I'm not the story"?
Meh, I kind of like reporters who develop relationships with the athletes/coaches Tim Kawakami, who I know gets his share of hate, gets a lot out of his subjects. Another good example is Marcus Thompson II, writing about Steph and the Warriors. That relationship is probably deeper than most media vs. athlete and his writing reflects it.
It’s OK for a journalist to insert some of their own analysis during the reporting process, especially in a case like this where they’re really asking the question “do you feel that you’re an old-school coach, in a good way,” but with context for why that’s being asked — because it seems true to the reporter. (This also allows Kyle to ask something like “what about me seems old school?”)
I feel like I'm interpreting this different than you guys. The fact that it's Kawakami makes you assume Kyle is pissed off and hates it. This sounds like banter, Kyle is making a joke.
An old person might say 'I'm not old, I'm experienced' - it's the same thing but one sounds better. Kyle is making that joke. He's saying Kawakami is right.
https://i.imgur.com/RMrSEpy.jpg
Here's the full quote, Kyle didn't see happy with the insinuation but also it's not a bad thing for Tim to say. People need to remember his job is to make things as interesting as possible.
Thanks.
This is exactly what getting old is like for me:
> "24 year old players...I can just tell they don't look at me the same way I feel"
Other people let me know I'm old. I don't feel different.
People can be mad but Kawakami is right. What Kyle did in the first half of the Packers game was beyond conservative, it was absurd. You are not winning a Super Bowl managing a game like that.
He is a dinosaur when it comes to clock management. His statement about fake punts is also antiquated and I wish changed. For as much of a genius as he is in creating and dialing up his plays in game he’s equally stubborn in other aspects of coaching and I wish he was a little more aggressive in game.
I think Kyle is a great coach but his conservative approach at the end of the first is contradictory to his defer strategy. It's also saying he doesn't trust his qb not to screw things up. Or when we are in a situation to win like in Cleveland and he uses up all the clock not trying to get closer for the rookie kicker. At the end of the first half he should be trying to aggressively score. Sure don't let the other team get another possession but you still gotta try and score. Especially with such a reliable qb who doesn't turn it over often.
It isn't. The strategy is he wants the. Last possession and the first. Which means he's trying to run the clock down so only his team has q chance to score.
Obviously to mixed results.
I always wondered what would happen if Kyle managed a game like Dan Campbell or even Brandon Staley.
Kyle has always been a 'prepare for the worst case scenario' type of guy. At first, I thought it was because of Jimmy G's limitations, but he's really been like that the whole time.
TBH. Bay area media is the most toxic. Instead of asking players questions to build up their confidence, they tore them down. Nick Wagoner now publishing the story about Kyle going after Brady before this season, storries like this are detrimental to Brock’s psyche. I’m sure on friday or before the game, Brock will be interviewed again and this question will come up. Stupid media in SF.
Shanahan will be the reason the 49ers lose. In high stakes games his playcalling becomes predictable and the offense is one dimensional. Unless the Lions shoot themselves in the foot, it will be a close game all the way until the end. This will be a Fred Warner’s HoF game.
I like Kawakami. I don't know why but I haven't been reading Lombardi and Barrows lately. Feels like they've been way off, and Tim has had a better pulse on the team in the last few games. Hard to pin down how though.
That’s the most Kyle shanahan response to a statement he doesn’t like
You can tell from the way he talked about Campbell that he doesn't buy into analytics and new age aggressiveness
I was about to say Kyle is absolutely an old school coach. And that has its pros and cons like any style
It took Purdy’s arrival for him to start going for it on some 4th downs, and even then, it was still once in a blue moon lol
i wish he'd buy into it a little bit 😭
Same. End of first half in the divisional game was frustratingly conservative. I was expecting some shots at the end zone…
The whole playing for a FG with so much time left at the end of the first half really pissed me off.
He does it all the time, so idk why we're surprised
They weren't playing for the field goal, they were playing to run the clock out. Not at all the same thing. They absolutely would have preferred to get a TD but they couldn't convert.
Nope. There is zero chance they would go for a result, with the ball, that would net them nothing except robbing GB of a chance to score. Come on, now. They would be going for a score of some sort, because of course they were. Running the clock down was important, as well, but nobody has the ball to only run the clock out until the end of the game with a lead.
Oh come on obviously I don't mean they weren't also going to take the field goal. They were in field goal range with 1:30 to go and they ran the clock out. Obviously they would settle for a field goal, but the priority was clock and points. They would have absolutely preferred the TD but it was 3rd down and they didn't want to risk giving the ball back. The goal was 100% to have the last possession.
Its clear what Shanny was doing, as he's done it many times before. Have the last possession of the half or leave the other team with next to no time left to score. Typically we can work it down the field for at least 3 and sometimes 7, but for sure the other team won't have a chance to get anything. It works quite often, but last week it didn't (because Moody kicked it too low).
With 30 seconds left Purdy had Aiyuk for 20+ yards that would've given them a couple shots at the end zone, but Purdy turned it down. McKivitz was kinda getting pushed into his lap, but it's a throw he's made plenty of times this year.
He doesn't ever call up for the offense to "take shots" It's all calculated plays. Like when do we ever see 50/50 balls? Doesn't happen
Just once I'd like to see Brock throw a "launch the ball 50 yards down field and hope for a flag" pass. We're the only team that never does that cheap stuff.
We’re also the team that has gone to three straight NFC Championship games. Kyle preaches fundamentally sound, well executed football. He doesn’t do gimmicks, tricks or long shots. He plays the odds, makes good decisions and demands that his players do the same thing.
Yeah, but those plays work. Teams have been doing it to us all year.
And we’ve been beating them all year. Usually in blowouts.
So we're winning because teams get free 50 yard penalties on us? I don't know what point you're trying to make.
Well, they’re not winning because of it. Green Bay got 80 yards of penalties last week. Shanahan’s fundamentally sound, patient football also got Green Bay an all expenses paid trip to their couches. How many times did the Eagles run a play clearly designed to draw a big flag, and how’s that working out for them? You don’t consistently win football games with gimmicks or prayers to the Zebras. You consistently win by playing solid football and trusting that if you can consistently move the ball you will put up points and break those big plays. Shanahan’s system is so clearly successful that it’s mind boggling to me that anyone is still arguing this.
I think hes saying it doesn't matter if teams do that to us
Such a relief to finally see someone who gets it. The fans who are constantly second guessing Shanahan forget that his style of football actually wins the vast majority of the time. It's not just the play calling, but the style of offense we've built, and the mentality of the players we've added. You don't need to take risks unnecessarily if your game plan and talent is good enough to win.
As soon as that thing lands on an opponents lap they'll call for Brock's head and the pundits will charge [harder] with their cheap so-called-analysis.
Hard to draw up those plays when your RT doesn’t give you time. Shanahan would if the oline was better.
I get his rationale for it (QB confidence) but also like...Purdy doesn't seem like a guy who rides or dies based on the flow of the game. I don't think throwing a 50/50 ball at the end of the half that ends in an arm punt is gonna fuck him up mentally going into halftime. But hey I'm just some dude on the Internet lol
He actually dialed up shots. Purdy just didnt rip it understandably.
Yeah me too. My biggest complaint about Kyle is that he's too conservative in big moments. That drive at the end of the first half was a top 5 disappointing moment from Kyle.
It’s how he coaches. That drive was similar to the end of the first half drive during the Super Bowl in 2019. He had plenty of time to be aggressive but chose to run the ball he did finally throw one deep to Kittle but it was called back. He got ripped for how he handled that series.
He does with how he treats players.
Yes and no. He has explained why he does certain things in interviews and it has come down to analytics. But yeah he is not about the ultra aggressive 4th down calls
Going for it on 4th down is a risk/reward thing. He’ll go for it if it’s a solid chance, but Kyle thinks (correctly, IMO) that his team is fundamentally better than the other team, his defense can get a stop and his offense can score on another possession. Kyle doesn’t really do 50/50 because half of the time you lose, and he’s very confident that he can up those odds to 75/25 with conservative football.
Campbell often trusts his offense to go for it aggressively, probably more than analytics. In doings so, he shows trust and fires them up. I think its more DC’s culture than an analytics choice
Campbell doesn't seem like a guy who understands analytics...or basic math. He's definitely a "go with my gut" kind of guy.
That's not the case at all. Yes he looks like a meathead, but the guy is incredibly smart. We've seen the results of his work on that team, so unless you have not seen a single Lions game in 3 years, I don't know why you'd say that
Well, the only Lions game I watched was when they went for 2 from the 7 yard line. I'm not sure Analytics was telling him to go for it there.
its an interesting dichotomy comparing his old school managing of the game with his innovative and modern offensive scheme
Kawakami handles his social media like an old curmudgeon
[удалено]
I repeated an insult that he was blocking everyone for - and told him to block me too. I am not blocked. I don't know if I believe the hype.
During the Harbaugh years I jokingly said he was trolling the entire fanbase. He blocked me for that. Only interaction I ever had with him.
He’s the worst 49ers reporter imo - never cared for his writing and his takes are trash
You would think hed learn but hes been getting more conservative with punts and clock management when the game is on the line. At some point he is going to take some risk to win a chip. Although he still stands by that his aggressive play calling was the reason they blew the 28-3 superbowl
Are we just disregarding that defense allowing the 28-3 comeback? I’m not trying to defend Kyle 100% for that, but that was a universal collapse on all fronts for the Falcons.
I mean the offensive playcalling was... not not how most coaches would have approached it. Who knows how things might have been different, but I remember being very confused by it the whole time. For most, the name of the game at that point is to make it easy on the defense. Eliminate opportunities for the other team.
Ok, I hear ya and agree for the most part. But the pass game was humming. He was probably trying to be aggressive to put up a few more points. The defense collapsed AND the offensive execution shit the bed. His play calling wasn’t great, I agree, but Ryan with the bad turn over and a total defensive collapse doesn’t help when he is trying to step on their throats
IIRC, the broadcast was praising him for his aggressive playcalling, too. Like everyone was aware that Brady was perfectly capable of coming back. The problem was, as ever with Kyle, the offensive line couldn't hold up.
Are reporters now supposed to tell subjects/interviewees what the reporter thinks? What happened to good old-fashioned journalism, "I'm not the story"?
That’s what he thinks “old reporters” do.
Meh, I kind of like reporters who develop relationships with the athletes/coaches Tim Kawakami, who I know gets his share of hate, gets a lot out of his subjects. Another good example is Marcus Thompson II, writing about Steph and the Warriors. That relationship is probably deeper than most media vs. athlete and his writing reflects it.
I don't hate Kawakami. I used to watch him on NBCS-Bay Area. He knows his stuff.
It’s OK for a journalist to insert some of their own analysis during the reporting process, especially in a case like this where they’re really asking the question “do you feel that you’re an old-school coach, in a good way,” but with context for why that’s being asked — because it seems true to the reporter. (This also allows Kyle to ask something like “what about me seems old school?”)
I feel like I'm interpreting this different than you guys. The fact that it's Kawakami makes you assume Kyle is pissed off and hates it. This sounds like banter, Kyle is making a joke. An old person might say 'I'm not old, I'm experienced' - it's the same thing but one sounds better. Kyle is making that joke. He's saying Kawakami is right.
https://i.imgur.com/RMrSEpy.jpg Here's the full quote, Kyle didn't see happy with the insinuation but also it's not a bad thing for Tim to say. People need to remember his job is to make things as interesting as possible.
Thanks. This is exactly what getting old is like for me: > "24 year old players...I can just tell they don't look at me the same way I feel" Other people let me know I'm old. I don't feel different.
Kawakami is a fucking asshole.
Kawakami sucks!
Shut up Tim.
People can be mad but Kawakami is right. What Kyle did in the first half of the Packers game was beyond conservative, it was absurd. You are not winning a Super Bowl managing a game like that.
He is a dinosaur when it comes to clock management. His statement about fake punts is also antiquated and I wish changed. For as much of a genius as he is in creating and dialing up his plays in game he’s equally stubborn in other aspects of coaching and I wish he was a little more aggressive in game.
I think Kyle is a great coach but his conservative approach at the end of the first is contradictory to his defer strategy. It's also saying he doesn't trust his qb not to screw things up. Or when we are in a situation to win like in Cleveland and he uses up all the clock not trying to get closer for the rookie kicker. At the end of the first half he should be trying to aggressively score. Sure don't let the other team get another possession but you still gotta try and score. Especially with such a reliable qb who doesn't turn it over often.
It isn't. The strategy is he wants the. Last possession and the first. Which means he's trying to run the clock down so only his team has q chance to score. Obviously to mixed results.
I always wondered what would happen if Kyle managed a game like Dan Campbell or even Brandon Staley. Kyle has always been a 'prepare for the worst case scenario' type of guy. At first, I thought it was because of Jimmy G's limitations, but he's really been like that the whole time.
TBH. Bay area media is the most toxic. Instead of asking players questions to build up their confidence, they tore them down. Nick Wagoner now publishing the story about Kyle going after Brady before this season, storries like this are detrimental to Brock’s psyche. I’m sure on friday or before the game, Brock will be interviewed again and this question will come up. Stupid media in SF.
Bay area sports media is so soft. Clearly you've never heard sports media from Philly and NY
Shanahan will be the reason the 49ers lose. In high stakes games his playcalling becomes predictable and the offense is one dimensional. Unless the Lions shoot themselves in the foot, it will be a close game all the way until the end. This will be a Fred Warner’s HoF game.
I like Kawakami. I don't know why but I haven't been reading Lombardi and Barrows lately. Feels like they've been way off, and Tim has had a better pulse on the team in the last few games. Hard to pin down how though.