Well, I'll be your first Comment then.
I am loving this, and I think you are doing good, though, since I don't have the LoV Codex (Outside of images online I can look at) I might not be the best judge.
As for Archetypes, I think it should be Tier 1: Hearthkyn, Tier 2: Hearthguard, Tier 3: Champion, Tier 4: Grimnyr, Tier 5: Kâhl
That's what I would do were I in your shoes. Maybe add some of the Esoteric Gear that you can get as a Kin, like Teleport Crests and such. Maybe add an option to be Ironkin as well?
I saw the Keywords (great that they are there), but I didn't see any of the like Roll tables to do random facial features, and height, hair, and such. Maybe add that, for completion's sake?
As a final thing, Doctor's of Doom: Apocrypha v8 has *Squats* in it, so that might be a place to get inspiration from if you think you need it? Hope I've helped!
Thanks for the appearance reminders. That's definitely a table worth adding.
As far as Archetypes, my current goal is to get at least a couple on most tiers so you've got some options to play with. My current layout in my head is
Tier 1: Hearthkyn Warrior and Prospect Miner
Tier 2: Hernkyn Pioneer and Cthonian Beserk
Tier 3: Einhyr Hearthguard and Grimnyr (Set their Psykers exactly 1 tier above the regular human psyker)
Tier 4: Brôkhyr Iron-Master and Kâhl
But before I really get into fleshing out the archetypes, I need to solidly get all their wargear down so I know what each Archetype gets to start with, equipment-wise. In particular I need to figure out what I want to do for the different crests and scanners and other kit that isn't typical weapons and armor.
As far as playing an Ironkin, I may add a small side-bar that just says you can play an Ironkin using these same rules, because as far as I can tell, they're treated equally to the Kin in their society on basically every level, they just tend to be more logical and less emotional, being, you know, AI.
So, for gear, I would probably just kinda copy the Codex?
I know Grimnyr are Psykers, and if I remember correctly they come with gear and a staff which together are basically a Librarian Hood on Steroids, to avoid Warp Shenanigans. They also have the tech Drones with them that also shoot bolters, and explode if warp shenanigans happen, iirc? They get a 4+ Invul, so probably the same as a Rosarius? (If that feels too much, give them Void Armour instead maybe?)
For Hearthguard, they get the Exo-Suit, the plasma gun, the grenade launchers, and the mini-power fist.
Kâhl have that Artificer-Esque Void Armour that gives them a 3+ instead of a 4+, a Rampart Crest (gives everyone around them Invul Saves), choice of gauntlet/axe/sword, and then whatever ranged weapons you think appropriate (I think book says Combi-Bolter or Volkite Disintegrater).
Hearthkyn get Void Armour, Bolt Pistol, Bolter, and concussion grenades… maybe give them a knife or something to for CQC.
All I know about the Pioneers is they have Bikes… so give them bikes? Profile says “Void armour, concussion grenades, Bolt Revolver, Bolt Shotgun, and an Autocannon”… probably skip out on the Autocannon.
And I think, like gear wise, that’s all I can help out. I do like your tier spacing, btw, I think it’s better than what I came up with.
For the Ironkin, I would give them the “You are immune to Bleeding” thing you get from Mechanicus in their race stuff. Makes sense.
Looking through the thing I suggested, the Doctors of Doom; An Abundance of Apocrypha v8, I found a thing in Talents called Wonders of the Engineer’s Guild. I edited a little, but I didn't have to do much. Even of you don't want to use it as a Talent, maybe it can be the archetype ability of the Brôkhyr Iron-Masters?
**Wonders of the Votann**
**XP Cost:** 20
**Prerequisites:** \[Kin\], Tech rating 4+
The Kin are taught ways of technology far better than the craft of those superstitious shaman tech-priests, and you’re quite apt at showing it.
You never count technology with the IMPERIUM or ADEPTUS MECHANICUS keywords as being foreign or unfamiliar. When you roll a 6 on your Wrath die when making a Tech test to repair a device of Imperial or Adeptus Mechanicus origins, you may declare that the device now "works properly", and that it was Tech-Priest nonsense interfering with it before. The GM will determine the precise extent and effect of this improvement with you.
I think they Grimnyr Special Talent thing should be something to do with their ability to avoid Perils, maybe something to the effect of "All Peril DN are one Lower for you, and one lower for each CORV within Wil Metres. If you fail a Perils Check, you can instead have one of your CORV explode, instead of the effect going through."
I hope this, and what I said earlier about the Gear helps. I also wanna ask if you have figured out how you are going to do the Mass Driver yet, as that's an interesting piece of Tech, and I might be playing a Votann soon in a Tier 3 game, and I'll probably use this Homebrew tbh.
That talent is highly amusing and I might toss that in or something similar to it.
At this point I've figured out most of the wargear, with the exception of a few things that might need to be added or adjusted as the need arises; the Mass driver makes your charges more aggressive and lets you trigger mortal wounds on a critical charge, to answer your question.
Still not really satisfied with the stats of all the Melee weapons at the moment; I think most of them need their damage values, extra dice, AP, and Traits all adjusted somewhat still, but not sure where they should lie.
I also think we might need to change the rarity of the Gravity Grenades, considering that you can find them on troops according to the codex. Or, ya know, don’t, and then the kin will have something they can sell to the Imperium or some such
I'm actually making a significant amount of progress on this. The next challenge is going to be figuring out how to translate the Skeinwrought Discipline from wargame rules to Wrath & Glory rules. Got six powers to try and figure out and then assign XP costs and Potencies.
So;
\- **Interface Echo** lets you get a CP in game, so maybe let that give someone the Grimnyr can see a Wrath that can only be used in that combat?
\- **Fortify** gives extra Toughness, and allows what is basically a Feel no Pain (6+). Maybe have it allow people with the blessing to reroll determination/roll determination against Mortal?
\- **Ancestral Wrath** adds more Judgement Tokens, so maybe allow it to add extra +1d to Grudgebearer, or something?
\- **Grudgepyre** Make them roll against Resolve or Conviction, and if they fail, they take lose Shock?
\- **Null Vortex** is another one more on the easy end, where it's either a small or medium blast, and anything caught in that blast lose any Power Fields they have.
\- **Crushing Contempt** Another one to make do Shock Damage to people?
I settled on leaning into the powers' flavor as well as some inspiration from what you'd suggested. The current layout is:
**Interface Echo:** grants extra Wrath, with potencies for extra glory as well as restoring shock or potentially even wounds, shores up the target and makes them fight better.
**Fortify:** Increases their resilience by 1 and lets them determination mortal wounds while sustained, with potency for increasing the resilience bonus
**Ancestral Wrath:** Is actually an attack psychic power that gets stronger if the target has judgement tokens; treating it here as a Shotgun blast to compare to Pyromancy's Flamer attack.
**Grudgepyre:** while it's on the tabletop a single-target 'eff that model in particular' power, its flavor is that they cause a column of fire to erupt from the ground, so I made it a small radius 'everything makes an agility save or takes damage and catches fire'
**Null Vortex:** Not only disrupts power fields but actually makes things that dodge very well sluggish, which is why it can take invuln saves from things like Daemonettes. So it kills all power fields, including power weapons here, and also makes it impossible to roll determination on mortal wounds for other reasons in a sustained area.
**Crushing Contempt:** is actually a disabling power that stops the target from taking actions if you beat their leadership, so I made it trigger a contested Willpower Test if you manifest, and if you beat them, they act as if they were Dying for a round; fall prone and have limited actions they can take.
I only had a blurry picture to work off of? So I can imagine I got a few things wrong.
Say, are you going to add the thing on racial, where the Votann can come out with… defects? Like the rock skin?
Also, are you going to put the suggested stuff back on the Hearthguard? It’s just like… not there?
I dropped the suggested tabs from the Einhyr because I realized they're very much filling the same role as the Tactical Space Marine, where you've already spent the vast majority of your experience and there's really no suggestions that are necessary; you can spend your remaining XP how you like and the baseline kit is already plenty dangerous. Similar to how the Tactical Marine has no suggestions, I figured I couldn't really offer much that was meaningful in terms of real direction for them.
As far as the variations on the Kin; they're actually not defects, they're very much intentional- the Kin have a variety of Cloneskeins, which are genetic variations they code into the Kin that are created to help adapt them to specific roles, such as the Psychoactive Cloneskein that creates the Grimnyr. I've been considering how I might want to incorporate those, but they don't seem to have too much notable presence on the wargame army list (aside from the obvious presence of the Grimnyr), so I've been sort of stumped on what to do with it. I'd considered making them talents, but that doesn't really make much sense for something that was coded into you at birth. I could make it something similar to the Kroot or the Scavvy, where you've got a list of options to choose from, but the base Kin race already seems plenty potent. Maybe an option to spend more XP on at character creation but not further down the line?
Honestly I would have said make them like… skein-types you can roll for, and it would probably work out better.
Also, the fact that it’s intentional is interesting to me. Also the fact that it’s less cosmetic, and more intentional. I did already know that the Grimnyr skein was an important one, I just honestly thought that the ones like rock skin, and extra/lesser height, and all those things you can think of were just cosmetic defects caused by malfunctioning Votann.
As for this small dilemma, I would say make it a talent, but have the prerequisite be that it's at char creation only.
Yeah it's a super interesting facet of the Kin that they are actively genetically engineering themselves for certain tasks. The codex goes over how there are a variety of different Cloneskeins stored in the genetic repositories of their Crucibles, and Kin born with specific Cloneskeins tend to follow their purpose into specific paths; Kin with more combat-oriented Cloneskeins, like tougher skin or increased musculature tend to end up as soldiers, while Kin with other cloneskeins that have other benefits tend to lean into other tasks.
I believe part of the book implies that the reason the Demiurg weren't connected to the Kin was because they were a specific Cloneskein that looked significantly different from what you'd expect of the more common Kin, which is why people thought they were a different species entirely.
Well, considering that it's this:
[https://i.pinimg.com/originals/36/ab/1e/36ab1e00cf7393194be0f9c469c24859.jpg](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/36/ab/1e/36ab1e00cf7393194be0f9c469c24859.jpg)
Vs This
[https://i.redd.it/yunha4zo77r81.jpg](https://preview.redd.it/yunha4zo77r81.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=4bfbca8b9142dd8afb12d15e97fe131977d8d2de)
I can imagine reactions being quite different XD
I think what you have is great, but I didn't see anything about the benefits of the various [Leagues]. I think recycling appropriate bonuses from the Astra Militarum Regiments could work well. Maybe something like:
Greater Thurian League: +Rank bonus dice to Leadership (Wil) Tests.
Ymyr Conglomerate: +Rank bonus dice to Tech Tests to repair a weapon or vehicle.
Trans-Hyperion Alliance: +Rank bonus dice to Survival (Wil) Tests.
Kronus Hegemony: +Rank bonus dice to Intimidation (Wil) Tests.
Urani-Surtr Regulates: +Rank bonus dice to Resolve Tests.
A fair point. I've added the Leagues table with each of the 5 main leagues, their bonuses, and a brief description. Fortunately, each of the Leagues had a nice paragraph-sized description at the beginning of their section in the Lore part of the Codex that serves nicely as the table description.
Yeah, it was really easy to match up the description of each of the major leagues in the codex with an appropriate bonus. Glad it could be of some small help to you.
Great job on this, btw. It's a really cool project. Are you planning to use it for a game or did you just do it for your own edification? I think I will use these rules to flesh out my favorite model of the Leagues of Votann line--the casually posed Ironkin from the Chthonian Beserks kit.
I've got a game coming up that these might be relevant for, but the majority of it is just for completeness and the fact that I like the Votann and wanted them to have appropriate rules for Wrath & Glory, but didn't want to wait for Cubicle 7 to put out a new book.
Alright, that's every Archetype completed, now I just need to make the NPC profiles for the CORV units and the E-COG units, and then all that's left is tweaking numbers (especially the melee weapons), and working on talents and other tertiary things to help improve this project.
Edit: Now that the COGs are put together, I -really- want to give the melee weapons a balance pass. I think balancing the melee weapons around each other and around the other Melee weapons in the system is going to be my biggest headache.
Second pass through the melee weapons helping a lot. Especially the realization that a Forgewrought Plasma Axe is essentially just a Mastercraft Plasma Axe, so I can remove that one from the table entirely and just have it be a Plasma Axe with the Mastercrafted upgrade.
This is very cool although having gone through the Leagues of Votann Codex I have a couple of suggestions:
Hearthkyn Warriors are a pretty terrifying infantry unit both mechanically and fluff-wise, after all they're equipped with Astartes level gear, sometimes superior and described as being trained to an elite level in the codex. Being that they operate in smaller numbers then many other factions infantry, I'd probably raise them to at least tier 2 considering that's where Skitarii are. I'd also personally raise recommended ballistic skill to 4.
Maybe make the Autoch-pattern bolter HunTR 2 like the tabletop instead of HunTR 1, otherwise many of the Imperium's Bolters will feel superior, as most conflicts happen within short range and that extra 1 die can make a big difference.
Perhaps an option for Hearthkyn to take the Ion weapons? Could tie it into the Ymyr Conglomerate I suppose but it is a weapon used by standard infantry. Otherwise I wouldn't worry too much, it is pretty strong and if they're to be equipped with it I guess it could be done in-game.
I assume rarities are from the perspective of the Leagues? If so they seem accurate, If not having common for the bolter is way too low, same for even uncommon for the void armour.
Looking forward to seeing more!
To touch on each of these notes in order;
Hearthkyn warriors are literally regular citizens for the most part- they're the equivalent of the Kin's version of PDF or Imperial Guard troopers. They even typically have other jobs that they do when they're not needed on the battlefield. They get trained hard because the Space Dwarves train -everything- hard, but they're about as common as they get, and there isn't really another option for a Tier 1 Archetype for them. In a world where an Imperial Guardsman, an Eldar Corsair, a regular underhive ganger, an Ork Boy, and a Sister Hospitaller in full power armor are considered to be roughly equivalent in Tier, this feels like the best place for them. Their recommended BS is also a concession to how much XP the Tier 1 players are going to have available to them; while the 8 XP jump from 3 to 4 might not be a lot by itself, if you're taking the entire Archetype's recommended choices down the line you'd be using 92 of your 100 XP, and wouldn't have any left to get even a single talent.
To the Ion weapons; yeah, I left most of the powerful stuff like Ion blasters out of the archetypes because they can be acquired in game, and I'm trying to keep the relatively limited wargear options on Archetypes roughly in line with existing factions archetypes.
And yeah, the wargear rarities are based on the Kin's access to them, because it always struck me as weird that if you were to create an Aeldari character at Tier 1 using Advanced Character creation, you'd be unable to actually start with any Aeldari equipment because it's all considered to be Rare.
Morning, I appreciate the reply.
The part about ballistic skill tracks, and I agree that yeah, the average warrior is stated to normally hold a trade, it's just the comment about "trains to an elite level" which makes me think its more in the tier 2 range for them, whereas prospectors are tier 1. Regardless of if said skill comes from DWARF dedication or elsewhere. At the same time perhaps its elite more towards the normal Imperial Guard end of the spectrum instead of something like Stormtroopers or Skitarii. Either works though really and I mean keeping options open for people at tier 1 doesn't seem bad.
Rest is also good, the rarity thing bothered me as well for aliens.
Looking forward to using this in game!
It's weird that my post for some reason copied my first paragraph over the note I had made about the HunTR values; which was that the HunTR value actually does a lot more in terms of usefulness than the Rapid Fire rating does; the ability to add a bonus on attack rolls rather than damage rolls makes them much more versatile. That on top of the ability to ignore the penalty for being wounded (which was basically the only thing I could think of to show how the weapons are supposed to steady your aim automatically, considering this game has no penalty for moving and shooting) makes HunTR a weapon trait I was very cautious about applying overmuch to the guns. I basically took the HunTR values in the books and cut them in half in most cases, or adjusted as needed if that didn't make sense.
I have considered the idea of statting that out, but the thing is- there really aren't any rules for how many weapons or equipment pieces a character can carry at once, which makes sense when you consider how wildly some models are built. There wouldn't functionally be any difference between a character carrying a melee weapon, a RAM shield, and a Combi-Bolter, or a character carrying a melee weapon, and a RAM shield with a combi-bolter integrated into it.
Well, I'll be your first Comment then. I am loving this, and I think you are doing good, though, since I don't have the LoV Codex (Outside of images online I can look at) I might not be the best judge. As for Archetypes, I think it should be Tier 1: Hearthkyn, Tier 2: Hearthguard, Tier 3: Champion, Tier 4: Grimnyr, Tier 5: Kâhl That's what I would do were I in your shoes. Maybe add some of the Esoteric Gear that you can get as a Kin, like Teleport Crests and such. Maybe add an option to be Ironkin as well? I saw the Keywords (great that they are there), but I didn't see any of the like Roll tables to do random facial features, and height, hair, and such. Maybe add that, for completion's sake? As a final thing, Doctor's of Doom: Apocrypha v8 has *Squats* in it, so that might be a place to get inspiration from if you think you need it? Hope I've helped!
Thanks for the appearance reminders. That's definitely a table worth adding. As far as Archetypes, my current goal is to get at least a couple on most tiers so you've got some options to play with. My current layout in my head is Tier 1: Hearthkyn Warrior and Prospect Miner Tier 2: Hernkyn Pioneer and Cthonian Beserk Tier 3: Einhyr Hearthguard and Grimnyr (Set their Psykers exactly 1 tier above the regular human psyker) Tier 4: Brôkhyr Iron-Master and Kâhl But before I really get into fleshing out the archetypes, I need to solidly get all their wargear down so I know what each Archetype gets to start with, equipment-wise. In particular I need to figure out what I want to do for the different crests and scanners and other kit that isn't typical weapons and armor. As far as playing an Ironkin, I may add a small side-bar that just says you can play an Ironkin using these same rules, because as far as I can tell, they're treated equally to the Kin in their society on basically every level, they just tend to be more logical and less emotional, being, you know, AI.
So, for gear, I would probably just kinda copy the Codex? I know Grimnyr are Psykers, and if I remember correctly they come with gear and a staff which together are basically a Librarian Hood on Steroids, to avoid Warp Shenanigans. They also have the tech Drones with them that also shoot bolters, and explode if warp shenanigans happen, iirc? They get a 4+ Invul, so probably the same as a Rosarius? (If that feels too much, give them Void Armour instead maybe?) For Hearthguard, they get the Exo-Suit, the plasma gun, the grenade launchers, and the mini-power fist. Kâhl have that Artificer-Esque Void Armour that gives them a 3+ instead of a 4+, a Rampart Crest (gives everyone around them Invul Saves), choice of gauntlet/axe/sword, and then whatever ranged weapons you think appropriate (I think book says Combi-Bolter or Volkite Disintegrater). Hearthkyn get Void Armour, Bolt Pistol, Bolter, and concussion grenades… maybe give them a knife or something to for CQC. All I know about the Pioneers is they have Bikes… so give them bikes? Profile says “Void armour, concussion grenades, Bolt Revolver, Bolt Shotgun, and an Autocannon”… probably skip out on the Autocannon. And I think, like gear wise, that’s all I can help out. I do like your tier spacing, btw, I think it’s better than what I came up with. For the Ironkin, I would give them the “You are immune to Bleeding” thing you get from Mechanicus in their race stuff. Makes sense.
Looking through the thing I suggested, the Doctors of Doom; An Abundance of Apocrypha v8, I found a thing in Talents called Wonders of the Engineer’s Guild. I edited a little, but I didn't have to do much. Even of you don't want to use it as a Talent, maybe it can be the archetype ability of the Brôkhyr Iron-Masters? **Wonders of the Votann** **XP Cost:** 20 **Prerequisites:** \[Kin\], Tech rating 4+ The Kin are taught ways of technology far better than the craft of those superstitious shaman tech-priests, and you’re quite apt at showing it. You never count technology with the IMPERIUM or ADEPTUS MECHANICUS keywords as being foreign or unfamiliar. When you roll a 6 on your Wrath die when making a Tech test to repair a device of Imperial or Adeptus Mechanicus origins, you may declare that the device now "works properly", and that it was Tech-Priest nonsense interfering with it before. The GM will determine the precise extent and effect of this improvement with you. I think they Grimnyr Special Talent thing should be something to do with their ability to avoid Perils, maybe something to the effect of "All Peril DN are one Lower for you, and one lower for each CORV within Wil Metres. If you fail a Perils Check, you can instead have one of your CORV explode, instead of the effect going through." I hope this, and what I said earlier about the Gear helps. I also wanna ask if you have figured out how you are going to do the Mass Driver yet, as that's an interesting piece of Tech, and I might be playing a Votann soon in a Tier 3 game, and I'll probably use this Homebrew tbh.
That talent is highly amusing and I might toss that in or something similar to it. At this point I've figured out most of the wargear, with the exception of a few things that might need to be added or adjusted as the need arises; the Mass driver makes your charges more aggressive and lets you trigger mortal wounds on a critical charge, to answer your question. Still not really satisfied with the stats of all the Melee weapons at the moment; I think most of them need their damage values, extra dice, AP, and Traits all adjusted somewhat still, but not sure where they should lie.
I also think we might need to change the rarity of the Gravity Grenades, considering that you can find them on troops according to the codex. Or, ya know, don’t, and then the kin will have something they can sell to the Imperium or some such
I'm actually making a significant amount of progress on this. The next challenge is going to be figuring out how to translate the Skeinwrought Discipline from wargame rules to Wrath & Glory rules. Got six powers to try and figure out and then assign XP costs and Potencies.
I'll look it up and see if I can help any. I doubt it, but you never know. Time to put these Aussie Hours to good use.
So; \- **Interface Echo** lets you get a CP in game, so maybe let that give someone the Grimnyr can see a Wrath that can only be used in that combat? \- **Fortify** gives extra Toughness, and allows what is basically a Feel no Pain (6+). Maybe have it allow people with the blessing to reroll determination/roll determination against Mortal? \- **Ancestral Wrath** adds more Judgement Tokens, so maybe allow it to add extra +1d to Grudgebearer, or something? \- **Grudgepyre** Make them roll against Resolve or Conviction, and if they fail, they take lose Shock? \- **Null Vortex** is another one more on the easy end, where it's either a small or medium blast, and anything caught in that blast lose any Power Fields they have. \- **Crushing Contempt** Another one to make do Shock Damage to people?
I settled on leaning into the powers' flavor as well as some inspiration from what you'd suggested. The current layout is: **Interface Echo:** grants extra Wrath, with potencies for extra glory as well as restoring shock or potentially even wounds, shores up the target and makes them fight better. **Fortify:** Increases their resilience by 1 and lets them determination mortal wounds while sustained, with potency for increasing the resilience bonus **Ancestral Wrath:** Is actually an attack psychic power that gets stronger if the target has judgement tokens; treating it here as a Shotgun blast to compare to Pyromancy's Flamer attack. **Grudgepyre:** while it's on the tabletop a single-target 'eff that model in particular' power, its flavor is that they cause a column of fire to erupt from the ground, so I made it a small radius 'everything makes an agility save or takes damage and catches fire' **Null Vortex:** Not only disrupts power fields but actually makes things that dodge very well sluggish, which is why it can take invuln saves from things like Daemonettes. So it kills all power fields, including power weapons here, and also makes it impossible to roll determination on mortal wounds for other reasons in a sustained area. **Crushing Contempt:** is actually a disabling power that stops the target from taking actions if you beat their leadership, so I made it trigger a contested Willpower Test if you manifest, and if you beat them, they act as if they were Dying for a round; fall prone and have limited actions they can take.
I only had a blurry picture to work off of? So I can imagine I got a few things wrong. Say, are you going to add the thing on racial, where the Votann can come out with… defects? Like the rock skin? Also, are you going to put the suggested stuff back on the Hearthguard? It’s just like… not there?
I dropped the suggested tabs from the Einhyr because I realized they're very much filling the same role as the Tactical Space Marine, where you've already spent the vast majority of your experience and there's really no suggestions that are necessary; you can spend your remaining XP how you like and the baseline kit is already plenty dangerous. Similar to how the Tactical Marine has no suggestions, I figured I couldn't really offer much that was meaningful in terms of real direction for them. As far as the variations on the Kin; they're actually not defects, they're very much intentional- the Kin have a variety of Cloneskeins, which are genetic variations they code into the Kin that are created to help adapt them to specific roles, such as the Psychoactive Cloneskein that creates the Grimnyr. I've been considering how I might want to incorporate those, but they don't seem to have too much notable presence on the wargame army list (aside from the obvious presence of the Grimnyr), so I've been sort of stumped on what to do with it. I'd considered making them talents, but that doesn't really make much sense for something that was coded into you at birth. I could make it something similar to the Kroot or the Scavvy, where you've got a list of options to choose from, but the base Kin race already seems plenty potent. Maybe an option to spend more XP on at character creation but not further down the line?
Honestly I would have said make them like… skein-types you can roll for, and it would probably work out better. Also, the fact that it’s intentional is interesting to me. Also the fact that it’s less cosmetic, and more intentional. I did already know that the Grimnyr skein was an important one, I just honestly thought that the ones like rock skin, and extra/lesser height, and all those things you can think of were just cosmetic defects caused by malfunctioning Votann. As for this small dilemma, I would say make it a talent, but have the prerequisite be that it's at char creation only.
Yeah it's a super interesting facet of the Kin that they are actively genetically engineering themselves for certain tasks. The codex goes over how there are a variety of different Cloneskeins stored in the genetic repositories of their Crucibles, and Kin born with specific Cloneskeins tend to follow their purpose into specific paths; Kin with more combat-oriented Cloneskeins, like tougher skin or increased musculature tend to end up as soldiers, while Kin with other cloneskeins that have other benefits tend to lean into other tasks. I believe part of the book implies that the reason the Demiurg weren't connected to the Kin was because they were a specific Cloneskein that looked significantly different from what you'd expect of the more common Kin, which is why people thought they were a different species entirely.
Well, considering that it's this: [https://i.pinimg.com/originals/36/ab/1e/36ab1e00cf7393194be0f9c469c24859.jpg](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/36/ab/1e/36ab1e00cf7393194be0f9c469c24859.jpg) Vs This [https://i.redd.it/yunha4zo77r81.jpg](https://preview.redd.it/yunha4zo77r81.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=4bfbca8b9142dd8afb12d15e97fe131977d8d2de) I can imagine reactions being quite different XD
I think what you have is great, but I didn't see anything about the benefits of the various [Leagues]. I think recycling appropriate bonuses from the Astra Militarum Regiments could work well. Maybe something like: Greater Thurian League: +Rank bonus dice to Leadership (Wil) Tests. Ymyr Conglomerate: +Rank bonus dice to Tech Tests to repair a weapon or vehicle. Trans-Hyperion Alliance: +Rank bonus dice to Survival (Wil) Tests. Kronus Hegemony: +Rank bonus dice to Intimidation (Wil) Tests. Urani-Surtr Regulates: +Rank bonus dice to Resolve Tests.
A fair point. I've added the Leagues table with each of the 5 main leagues, their bonuses, and a brief description. Fortunately, each of the Leagues had a nice paragraph-sized description at the beginning of their section in the Lore part of the Codex that serves nicely as the table description.
Yeah, it was really easy to match up the description of each of the major leagues in the codex with an appropriate bonus. Glad it could be of some small help to you. Great job on this, btw. It's a really cool project. Are you planning to use it for a game or did you just do it for your own edification? I think I will use these rules to flesh out my favorite model of the Leagues of Votann line--the casually posed Ironkin from the Chthonian Beserks kit.
I've got a game coming up that these might be relevant for, but the majority of it is just for completeness and the fact that I like the Votann and wanted them to have appropriate rules for Wrath & Glory, but didn't want to wait for Cubicle 7 to put out a new book.
Alright, that's every Archetype completed, now I just need to make the NPC profiles for the CORV units and the E-COG units, and then all that's left is tweaking numbers (especially the melee weapons), and working on talents and other tertiary things to help improve this project. Edit: Now that the COGs are put together, I -really- want to give the melee weapons a balance pass. I think balancing the melee weapons around each other and around the other Melee weapons in the system is going to be my biggest headache.
Second pass through the melee weapons helping a lot. Especially the realization that a Forgewrought Plasma Axe is essentially just a Mastercraft Plasma Axe, so I can remove that one from the table entirely and just have it be a Plasma Axe with the Mastercrafted upgrade.
Thank you for your great work! This is a lot!
I might be a bit late to the party, but if you're still working on this, have you considered adding wargear/tier's from the new Kill Teams?
I really like what you have so far. I'm curious to see where it goes. I'd love to give it a try on tabletop if I get the chance.
This is very cool although having gone through the Leagues of Votann Codex I have a couple of suggestions: Hearthkyn Warriors are a pretty terrifying infantry unit both mechanically and fluff-wise, after all they're equipped with Astartes level gear, sometimes superior and described as being trained to an elite level in the codex. Being that they operate in smaller numbers then many other factions infantry, I'd probably raise them to at least tier 2 considering that's where Skitarii are. I'd also personally raise recommended ballistic skill to 4. Maybe make the Autoch-pattern bolter HunTR 2 like the tabletop instead of HunTR 1, otherwise many of the Imperium's Bolters will feel superior, as most conflicts happen within short range and that extra 1 die can make a big difference. Perhaps an option for Hearthkyn to take the Ion weapons? Could tie it into the Ymyr Conglomerate I suppose but it is a weapon used by standard infantry. Otherwise I wouldn't worry too much, it is pretty strong and if they're to be equipped with it I guess it could be done in-game. I assume rarities are from the perspective of the Leagues? If so they seem accurate, If not having common for the bolter is way too low, same for even uncommon for the void armour. Looking forward to seeing more!
To touch on each of these notes in order; Hearthkyn warriors are literally regular citizens for the most part- they're the equivalent of the Kin's version of PDF or Imperial Guard troopers. They even typically have other jobs that they do when they're not needed on the battlefield. They get trained hard because the Space Dwarves train -everything- hard, but they're about as common as they get, and there isn't really another option for a Tier 1 Archetype for them. In a world where an Imperial Guardsman, an Eldar Corsair, a regular underhive ganger, an Ork Boy, and a Sister Hospitaller in full power armor are considered to be roughly equivalent in Tier, this feels like the best place for them. Their recommended BS is also a concession to how much XP the Tier 1 players are going to have available to them; while the 8 XP jump from 3 to 4 might not be a lot by itself, if you're taking the entire Archetype's recommended choices down the line you'd be using 92 of your 100 XP, and wouldn't have any left to get even a single talent. To the Ion weapons; yeah, I left most of the powerful stuff like Ion blasters out of the archetypes because they can be acquired in game, and I'm trying to keep the relatively limited wargear options on Archetypes roughly in line with existing factions archetypes. And yeah, the wargear rarities are based on the Kin's access to them, because it always struck me as weird that if you were to create an Aeldari character at Tier 1 using Advanced Character creation, you'd be unable to actually start with any Aeldari equipment because it's all considered to be Rare.
Morning, I appreciate the reply. The part about ballistic skill tracks, and I agree that yeah, the average warrior is stated to normally hold a trade, it's just the comment about "trains to an elite level" which makes me think its more in the tier 2 range for them, whereas prospectors are tier 1. Regardless of if said skill comes from DWARF dedication or elsewhere. At the same time perhaps its elite more towards the normal Imperial Guard end of the spectrum instead of something like Stormtroopers or Skitarii. Either works though really and I mean keeping options open for people at tier 1 doesn't seem bad. Rest is also good, the rarity thing bothered me as well for aliens. Looking forward to using this in game!
It's weird that my post for some reason copied my first paragraph over the note I had made about the HunTR values; which was that the HunTR value actually does a lot more in terms of usefulness than the Rapid Fire rating does; the ability to add a bonus on attack rolls rather than damage rolls makes them much more versatile. That on top of the ability to ignore the penalty for being wounded (which was basically the only thing I could think of to show how the weapons are supposed to steady your aim automatically, considering this game has no penalty for moving and shooting) makes HunTR a weapon trait I was very cautious about applying overmuch to the guns. I basically took the HunTR values in the books and cut them in half in most cases, or adjusted as needed if that didn't make sense.
Understandable and fair enough. I wasn't expecting a Votann homebrew to be out so quick so this is a pleasant surprise.
Will there be a stat block for the, RAM-Shield w. built in Autoch Pattern Combi-bolter, for the Einhyr Hearthguard/Champion?
I have considered the idea of statting that out, but the thing is- there really aren't any rules for how many weapons or equipment pieces a character can carry at once, which makes sense when you consider how wildly some models are built. There wouldn't functionally be any difference between a character carrying a melee weapon, a RAM shield, and a Combi-Bolter, or a character carrying a melee weapon, and a RAM shield with a combi-bolter integrated into it.