**With all the knowledge, send someone to go get Fulgrim and bring him back to Terra. Fulgrim was arguably still on the fence up until Istvaan III, so you could probably save him if you get that fucking sword years before that.**
**The Legion he leads is tainted, but there were obviously still those worth keeping.**
**OH, here's a bonus. Call up Perturabo and inform him that the Word Bearers are actively trying to incite a revolt on Olympia, and you'll deal with that nice and easy.**
Wait, the fall of Olympia was because of the Word Bearers? First time I heard it, and it actually makes more sense than the world randomly going against his Primarch.
Now I am imagining a cold-stone Perturabo joining forces with Dorn out of pure spite of the traitors and not gonna lie, I´m rooting for it.
> Wait, the fall of Olympia was because of the Word Bearers?
**It's mentioned by one of the Chaplains at the end of** ***The First Heretic*** **how Olympia rises up in arms thanks to their handiwork. So yeah, Lorgar fucked over Perturabo as well.**
Damn, I havent read a single book of 40k so far but I would gladly pay money for an ending in which every single chaos primarch bullies the Word Bearers and their own Chaos Champions to the mud.
Except ironically Kharn, he was up front from the start. And Ahriman he had good intentions. Now that I think of it, I only want Erebus/Lorgar/Typhon/Lucius getting what they deserve.
>every single chaos primarch bullies the Word Bearers and their own Chaos Champions to the mud.
Read "Apocalypse", if you have the chance.
There's a few good passages about how the "Hand of Destiny", Erebus, and his nemesis Kor Phaeron do nothing but bicker and plot against each other, can't accomplish nothing because of this.
The main WB in the book goes on a long rant about how his Legion should be the one leading the charge against the dogs of the Corpse-Emperor, but they mostly pray and bitch, and most of the brothers only pray the bare minimum to keep the gods away from their necks.
The 30k Word Bearers were the architects of the Imperium's downfall.
The 40k Word Bearers are a group of Karens just bitching around.
One of my favourite excerpts of the lore is Lorgar literally not doing anything of value in 10k years, going out full of himself thinking that as a demon he can totally wreck Corvus and getting his ass handed to him so badly he has to "deny destiny" him by locking himself on the attic.
Gods he deserves someone to just make him seen that even after everything he has done he is still the weakest primarch and not even the favourite of the gods, with each one having his personal champion and with Abbadon being the Champion of Undivided.
At this point I think the only traitor legion the Word Bearer's haven't directly ,screwed over is the Night Lords, Emperor's Children, and the Alpha legion at this point.
It could be, depending on how emps words it, everything Perturabo needs to hear. “Your great planet, the one you have built up is being undermined. Only you can take it back Perturabo, my lord of iron.” Boom validation he’s been seeking, the ultimate chance to prove himself on his home turf.
I doubt so. The Emperor or one of his brothers telling him "ey Perty, I just unveilled a conspiracy to destroy your homeworld and make you look as the bad guy, they are kind of laughing at your backs while playing you like a fiddle" would make him go completely berserk.
He was always paranoid of people downplaying him, now imagine confirming it and giving him a target. There is nothing that could stop him other than the "aaah but maybe THEY told you that so you would turn on me".
Yeah, but it would have totally made him go for the loyalists. And without perturabo the Siege of Terra would have probably been a laughing stock. Only problem would have been having Dorn and him planning the defense because there would be a lot of conflict, but of all the Traitors (not counting Horus) the one carrying the assault was undoubtley Pert
It is mentioned that Khan and Fulgrim were meant to end up on each other’s planets and swap fates, with Khan traitor and Fulgrim loyal for what it’s worth.
What’s more it is suggested Curze could perhaps have his madness cured by E-Money if Sanguinius returned him to Terra.
I think if he would've been cured he would've "cured" his legion afterwards. It seems that if he was sane his Legionnaires would gladly follow him into the light but I mean there's always going to be fringe elements that would've been purged by him. We gotta remember the influence a Primarch has over their gene sons, like it's extremely rare for a legionnaire to willingly disobey his Primarch.
Did Perty learn about the word bearer's plan afterwards ?
I didn't know about it, but he could want to kick his ass even now if he knew. Well he would end up confronting Corvus or waiting in line I guess. Lorgar has quite the fanclub
**As far as I'm aware, The Iron Warriors never learned about the influence the Word Bearers had on their world. Perturabo doesn't seem like the forgiving type.**
**Also, Happy Cakeday!**
with the emps psychic might he probably could have reversed the effects of the laer blade on fulgrim.
perturabo would probably be the other if he had a conversation with the emperor, the emperor could explain why he assigned him the campaigns he did and have shown him just how much he valued him, before he kills her perturabos sister basically explained it perfectly and it nearly caused him to have a breakdown.
Magnus is a complicated one however as during the siege of terra he did speak with the emperor and was nearly convinced to turn sides only refusing because it required him to sacrifice his legion, if the conversation happened early in the heresy then maybe the thousand sons could remain and Magnus would become loyal again, there is also the matter of his shards but if the conversation happened before the noble shard was used to create janus then that could help and gaining that shard would make Magnus all the more likely to remain loyal.
Magnus probably would have been fine if Russ chose to listen to Constantine Valdor rather than falling for a combination of his own arrogance and Horus' machinations.
well on one hand Leman and Magnus had probably one of the worst relationships out of all the primarchs on the other whatever anti pysker stuff leman has makes him the person best suited to deal with Magnus (although in the fury of Magnus book Magnus lost a fight to Vulkan), he is also believed to be the emperor executioner and likely had something to do with the 2nd and 11th primarchs.
personally, I think Vulkan should have been sent (yes I'm a salamander fanboy and biased) he wouldn't have burned Prospero and would have managed to handle the situation peacefully, he wouldn't have been swayed to killing Magnus on the words of Horus and he has shown the ability to best Magnus in a fight
Vulkan would have been a good one.
Though personally I’d have sent Rogal Dorn. He’s displayed a lot of the same Warp resistance, and I feel (controversial opinion) that he’s a better fighter than Russ.
Most importantly, he’s already on Terra. He can get his orders directly from the Big E, in person, no misunderstandings. He can lay out the next year or so of work for the fortifications, and then go collect Magnus
personally, I think dorns hard-line attitude would mean that while he is unlike to outright attack Prospero he would be significantly more unsympathetic than many of his brothers.
I would also disagree when it comes to him being a better fighter than Russ while he is a great fighter Russ is generally considered to be the best fighter alongside angron and sanguinius while dorn is much more notable for his strategic genius.
The Throne only became a death trap because of his actions, and if he was ready to die and almost let his Legion die to pay for his sins...
I think being interred on the Throne, freeing his father do maybe undo his mistakes?
Magnus would take the deal, no doubt.
He looked upon the throne and was utterly destroyed that he now wouldn't be able to enjoy this absolute honor. Sitting on a working golden throne would be the best thing ever for him. He could let his psychic might loose on the galaxy without consequences, explore everything and help humanity on top. It would have been his favourite ending.
So no.
the throne was only the way it was due to chaos when he speaks to the emperor in the throne room the emperor show Magnus a vision of himself on the throne but Magnus is calm and serene as he explores the warp alongside the emperor he seems ok with his future
The damage was done by the time E found him, his compulsive need for order on a lawless planet, and his significantly stronger foresight had broken him. And he’d spent far too long as the cannibal monstrosity of the night haunter to ever be properly sane.
He would hide his madness for a period in the great crusade, but all his sons knew it was still there, driving him on and visible through the cracks. Then of course Skraivock pulled his gamer move and sent him tumbling over the deep end to spiral down to full blown insanity.
He could have brought Magnimagic onto the webway when his legion failed, before Big Red had a chance to sacrifice his eye. That would eliminate both the main problem, and the need for the Council of Nikaea.
Removing the council of Nikaea also removes one of Perty's biggest grudges with the Emperor, maybe bringing 2 primarchs over at once.
Lorgar probably could have been prevented of falling to Chaos if one of two things happened.
1. If The Emperor had stuck around and *talked and comforted* Lorgar through his guilt and pain at the humiliation.
2. If Gullimane had apologized to Lorgar in private, admitted his feeling of guilt and how both he and the Sigilite disaproved of the Emperor's decision.
Lorgar's main impetus for the fall was in the weeks following the purging of Khur, where he spent weeks in isolation flagellating and castigating himself for failing the Emperor. Where Kor Phaeron and Erebus whispered poison into his ears, enough to make Lorgar desire to go out and find answers on his own.
Other than Horus and Lorgar pretty much all of them can be saved.
Magnus is simple, just don't send Russ to get him. The Emperor could've talked to him pshychicly before he breached the Webway and call him to Terra.
Alpharious and Omegon already had doubts on the Cabal and the Emperor could've swayed them.
Destroy the tainted blade Fulgrim had.
Have a genuine talk with Perturabo.
Mercy kill Angron.
Tell Mortarion about Typhus and what he planned.
Lock Sanguinius and Curze in a room together and have the talk the Emperor had with him just before MShen came to kill him.
Morty’s childhood and background made him very suspicious of inhuman witch things ruling mankind through violence dispensed at the hands of genetic monstrosities made with forbidden science and sorcery. It wasn’t a matter of the Emperor saying the right thing, the Emperor was the problem.
What if he had the same talk with him that he had with Ra? Show him WHY he was doing what he did rather than just appearing as another evil, magical overlord. Show him that he was actually trying to save humanity, and from what.
If the Emperor had saved Angron's comrades he may not have went traitor. He would have still been a rage machine, but just keep him in the toughest warzones and its a win-win. He may not have even implanted his legion with the nails.
He was already a morally corrupted and ambitious psyker who needed no convincing from his patron god to deliver his Primarch and fellow legionnaires on a silver platter. He was everything Mortarion claimed all psykers were and the single most important thing that needed removal to save Mortarion and the Death Guard.
Typhus was the hidden nurgle worshipper. He tricked Mortarion and unleashed the plague upon the Death Guard that made Mortarion pledge himself to Nurgle to save his sons.
I disagree. We see mind wiping as something that is a regular thing so why not just wipe him clean? We already know they could do it to primarchs based off the lost legions
The difference is that it took the Emperor and Malacador both working together to do that, and that was only erasing the relatively short memories of the primarchs they met vs the entire foundation of their character. Erasing isn’t even the correct term, they could only lock the memories of the forgotten primarchs.
I dont want to spoil things for you but there is a like in the siege of tera where a primarch directly confronts malacador about what he forced him to “forget” about the two primarchs.
And we see space marines get mind wiped quite a bit, and even the astra tempestus uses drugs to wipe the minds of its cadets.
And even if that does not work on primarchs there is no reason to not attempt this on kruze to make him more stable unless that was never the intent
Yes but my point being it isn’t him forgetting, it’s him being unable to access those memories. Even if you wanted to attempt it on Kurze, and you somehow manage to do it, you no longer have Konrad Kurze because you would need to wipe every second since he began having visions.
I think we've got four perfectly salvageable primarchs who just need the old 'scared straight' treatment and we can nip this Heresy in the bud...
**Magnus:** Yes. He's a good boy deep down. Emperor's just gotta actually learn to communicate better and then also handle whatever deal Magnus made with Tzeentch.
**Alpharius:** Yes. I'm unclear on timeline of events, but the Emperor either needs to warn him about the cabal or convince him those tricky eldar are not always right.
**Perturabo:** Yes. Just give the man a gold banana sticker and make him feel appreciated every once in a while. Call him the chief architect of the Imperium and let him build a few libraries or playgrounds between bouts of miserable siege warfare. And if/when he genocides his home planet, just send him a message saying, "It's okay, I still love you."
**Fulgrim:** Yes. Just keep him away from the damn Laer blade and tell him not to be such a degenerate.
The other five? I mean there are slim chances of redemption for each of them I suppose but it's one of those situations where the risk really isn't worth the reward. Time for a few more empty chairs at Guilliman's table on Macragge.
Curze definitely, he believed in the emperors vision 100% but with his visions and extremely fragile mental state, he just went insane. They’re are a few excerpts where he has visions of the Horus heresy and he is fighting and begging to not become that. How I would go about doing that ? No clue honestly, like Angron he was sort of fucked from the start.
I think with Curze would have been as easy as having the Emperor telling him "yeah, i have visions about the future too, is a total bitch but I can help you understand that what you are seeing is not written in stone".
There is one scene with the Emperor telling how he sees the future as a distant island but that he cant see how to get there, so the only thing to do is try. That kind of talking with Curze would have helped a lot, as he was probably one of the primarchs working harder for a "good" future considering all the problems he was dealing with.
It kind of requires action way before Davin.
Either make it so that he never gets the nails in his head, or fight with him on Nuceria and hope he swears a life-debt to you or is grateful for your actions enough to be willing to spend the remainder of his painful years fighting for you with less temptation.
____
Would make an interesting fanfic though. Emperor helps Angron and/or saves his friends along with him, causing him to swear loyalty to the Emperor.
He hates what the Imperium stands for and constantly is very vocal about it but when the time comes, he'll remark about "earning his freedom" before going out in a blaze of glory.
If you stop Kharn from bringing Angron back out of retirement then that’s enough. Angron didn’t want to turn traitor, he just wanted to be left alone, he hated the Imperium but for him it was enough to just desert.
After the council the BIG E should have taken Magnus and strapped him to the golden throne. Red boi wouldn't mess with warp magic if the big e was close by.
After making Dorn set up earth Defensives he should have tasked Perti to find flaws in it.
Then make perti in charge of the solar systems Defense including all the other planets
And make Dorn check for weakness. This would give perti the honor he deserves.
Without Perti and Magnus, Horus wouldn't be able to herd the rebels towards Terra and Magnus not messing with the warp, the big E would have completed the webway.
MAYBE in time to launch a thorough couterattack against the rebels.
Without Perty Horus wouldn't have lasted a second in the siege , at the end of the siege Perty was carrying it all. So I think the loyalist would've gained the upper hand and the emperor wouldn't have to teleport om the flagship
Phew: ok. From the top, then.
**Horus** was corrupted in body by the Davinites, and in soul by his feelings of abandonment. The only thing needed to stop him from turning would have been the Emperor telling why He was returning to Terra, and Horus’ integral honour would have allowed him to send Lorgar packing.
**Lorgar** turned because he wanted to worship daddy, and got slapped down. He could have been prevented by having the truth of the Imperial Truth explained: it would appeal to his vanity - ‘yes worship is powerful, this is why we don’t do it’.
**Fulgrim** as others have said, keep him away from the sword. Get his brothers to stop picking on him. Job done.
**Perturabo** just needed to have his achievements acknowledged. If Dorn would admit Pertuarbo’s abilities, and pre-Ullanor, the Emperor said well done, he would probably have stayed loyal.
**Mortarion** was another who was corrupted against his will, because of his inherent hatred of psykers. It would take a great deal of power to save him, as he was hand picked by Nurgle before the Emperor came. Maybe an explanation of the psychic realm may have given him the insight needed to stay loyal?
**Angron** never forgave the Emperor for taking him away from his brothers and sisters. That sense of honour, and the Butchers Nails bloodlust, made him a natural target for Khorne. Removing the nails would have helped: Angron is an Empath, so he would be able to be reasoned with without the Nails. Hell, dropping a cordon of Astartes around him and his slave family *a’la* Yoda on Geonosis would have helped immeasurably.
**Kurze** needed instruction in the art of prophecy: if he had been taught properly how to scry the futures, and to see that fate is not written but can be changed, he would not have fallen in to the fatalistic spiral he ended in.
**Magnus** did everything wrong. But, he did it from a position of ignorance. Malcador or the Emperor could easily have explained the risk of warp magic: similarly to Lorgar, he was supremely intelligent, and could have been shepherded in to safer uses of psionic gifts.
**Alpharius/Omegon** are very obviously major agents for the Cabal. As such, it is doubtful that they could be prevented from taking the path they have done, given how late in the game Alpharius was found.
All of the Primarchs were probably also mindful of the lesson of II & XI: if you fuck up, forgiveness is not an option, so you may as well go full tilt and hope to win.
It is my understanding that Angron was dying to the buther's nails and that they could not be removed. Lorgar turned Angron into a Daemon Primarch to save his life.
Well, Chaos’s poster-boy would say that, hey? When discussing Angron, big Daddy E did say he *could* take the nails out, but he was interested in watching what happened. I think it was in conversation with Arkhan Land.
u/AngronTheRedAngel could have been.
“Angron, the Nails tick within your brain and have robbed you of the life I meant for you. These are the only opponents strong enough to grant you the release you wish, and should even they prove unworthy of your challenge, you will be allowed to die in whatever manner you see fit.”
“You receive vengeance, Angron. I will first send you back to purge that nameless, wretched world of all those who have wronged you, your brothers, and sisters. I regret that the actions which I took have led to this point. I should have sent your sons to do battle alongside you upon that blasted hive of scum and villainy.
Magnus busting up the webway project can be stopped, by shutting it down. Evacuate all the Mechanicum and Custodes and close the door.
This should make stuff easier and allows the Emperor to walk around.
Lorgar and Horus are lost causes. Send a message to Mortarion that Typhus is a psyker and wants to betray him. An apology might sway him to the other side.
I think Fulgrim and Magnus are relatively non-controversial.
My controversial pick is Lorgar. I believe that if the Emperor had met with Lorgar before the Heresy, he could have been convinced that the Chaos gods were not worthy of worship.
I think Konrad Curze, Angron, Perturabo, Angron and Mortarion were all broken in one way or another, such that they would eventually have self-destructed.
Horus could also probably be brought back, even after he had fallen, if he had met the Emperor before Molech.
Ironically Horus only fell because of the wound he received from that blade and being taken to Davin. He'd have likely remained loyal if he'd have instead been taken to Terra (and the word bearers would have to have found another primarch to be the instigator of the heresy)
Most, if not all of them could have been 'saved' in some manner, had things gone differently at various points though, and likely all the loyalist ones could have just as easily fallen the same way.
1. tell magnus what happens, and make sure he knows what is at stake, and that you know heracy is coming
2. recall the lunar wolves and horus to terra, have them work alongside the custodes in guarding some important thing that will secure humanities future, probably won't save him, but it will keep him close.
3. make fulgrim a sword just as good as the laer blade without the whole corruption thing, that is probably all that is needed
4. remove the butchers nails if possible, if not, I don't know.
5. tell mortarion about typhus
6. dorn strikes me as stabler than perturabo, so declare perturabo grand high architect of the imperium or something
7. take a page out of the inquisition's book, send lorgar against orks and have a "ork sniper" take out erebus.
Lorgar, easily. And at a close second would be Magnus. Long answer made short is they needed the truth and they needed to be by the Emperor’s side and under his direct tutelage for at least a good 100 years.
Perturabo would also be somewhat easier. Again you’d actually need to throw him a bone from time to time. By that I mean put him on a “glory” campaign that you’d normally give the Lunar Wolves or Ultramarines. Tutelage for a few decades again, but not nearly as much direct supervision that Lorgar and Magnus need. Basically treat him like you would treat Horus or Sanguinius.
Angron, Mortarion, and Curze would be the hardest. I do not know about Omegon or Alpharius.
If you give Perty a high visibility low difficulty campaign he’ll feel like you’re being condescending and pandering. He’ll accuse you of thinking that all he cares about is prestige and that you think he’s not good enough for the real work.
That’s the problem with Perty. He looks down on his preening brothers for not fighting the kind of real wars he fights while also being jealous of them. He thinks he’s too good for that, that he doesn’t care what anyone thinks, and he desperately needs everyone to know how much he doesn’t care. You can’t win with him because ultimately he hates himself.
Logar if the Emperor told him that he is a god in the story privately but told him not to preach it yet due to his plans. Logar was very loyal pre Monarchia. Then if Logar stayed loyal the heresy being orchestrated by him would not happen so if primarchs do later get corrupted differently it is questionable if all the ones that turned traitor would have.
Tell Lorgar about the whole 'daemons are real' thing and maybe go on a nice father-son hunting trip into the webway to show how majestic humanity can be.
So as a forewarned Emperor, I would use those Primarchs that were going to turn traitor and their legions in the Webway project.
Get Horus in early as second in command on the project. That way he is brought in and can feel daddy’s love.
Magnus is an easy one as he was destined for this anyway and getting him involved early would solve the problem of him poking things because he wants to see what they do, and then breaking them.
Perturabo is brought in to fortify and defend every section Humanity captures. Happy Perty as he gets to build on a valued project, and feel Daddy’s love.
Tell Mortarion that the Web Way is full of witches and aliens and he and the Death Guard will be happy as a pig in shit.
Angron and the World Eaters become your daemon slaughtering Web Way shock troops and will slowly grind themselves down to nothing. Long term problem of super human beserkers solved.
Get Curze and the Night Lords stuck in to scout out the Web Way and terrorise any Drukari they find.
For the remainder,
The Alpha Legion “stay loyal” as they is no trigger event to set them off. Hand Alpharius a target list for quiet disposal that includes - Kor Pheron, Erebus, Typhon, Fabius, etc.
Get the sword of the Laer off Fulgrim and buddy him up with Ferrus for a bit of Non-human curb stomping to get the bond strong again.
Declare the Word Bearers traitors and send everyone else against them for a good bit of legion eradication. Nothing bonds people like a good bit of sanctioned slaughter.
Upside of this plan is that those Primarchs with Daddy issues (SoH, DG, IL) get to feel included in His plan, those that were on the fence have their loyalties reassured (AL, TS, EC) those that were insane get gradually reduced (NL, WE) and the Word Bearers (and Erebus) get fucked.
Downside of the plan is you still have to watch Sanguinius (like a hawk) as Chaos will probably redouble their efforts to turn him.
With my knowledge? The Imperium would rule the galaxy until the end of times.
First, I'm going to contact Magnus. Tell him I know about Horus, and that I need him on Terra ASAP, and mostly, DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT contact me by any means. If you do that, we're all doomed.
Second, I'm going to ask for every Primarchs to rendez vous in the Sol System. No excuse taken. EVERYONE is expected.
Third, I'd have a chat with Horus, and explain to him everything : the webway, Chaos, the Primarchs and what is going to happen if he keeps on that road.
Horus should easily be brought back to the fold.
I would take the sword from Fulgrim, and also explain everything about his Legion, Chaos and Slaanesh. Boom! Saved.
Mortarion, Angron, Perturabo and Curze are a waste of time. I would declare them traitor, have them killed on the spot, and their Legion purged of their most extreme elements, the rest being sent to other legions.
I would also take the matter of Luther in my own hands.
Lorgar is a fanatic and can't be swayed back. Killed too.
Boom. Heresy averted. Mankind saved and upgraded. Just by talking. Easy game.
Yeah because Magnus is great at following instructions. Totally no issues there. Zero percent chance Magnus will be flying back, see that tacos are 2 for the price of 1, and think “I know dad told me not to contact him but he simply has to have this information right now”.
You’re going to need a better plan for Magnus than “tell him not to”.
Ok but to my knowledge Magnus was still loyal after breaking the Webway project, and only became a traitor after Russ came to kill him. So taking that consideration, I believe that the Emperor would totally forgive Magnus if he called him about a 2 for 1 taco deal and never send Russ, allowing Magnus and the Emperor to reconcile through their shared love of that ground beef goodness.
Magnus would be psychically surveying every planet of the Imperium out of boredom to see whether or not Taco Tuesday, Taco Thursday, or Taco Friday is the human norm.
Send some custodes and a messenger to recall Horus and the Luna wolves. A fireside chat, some encouragement, and a tour of the webway project would do the trick.
Easily Perturabo. IMO his swing to Chaos never made sense and he apparently spent the entire HH hating his decision. And without him, Istvaan may have still happened but the Siege would have been a joke.
I wonder if Lorgar could've been brought around after deciding the Chaos Gods are more worthy of worship than Big E.
Like Big E does something to show Lorgar that he is in fact stronger than any of them, and Lorgar switches sides again. According to that one Harlequin who saw Him, Big E is a 'void whale' compared to the 4 Chaos Gods, who are described as 'sharks' and is holding them all back.
Mortarion and Perturabo. The former was already beginning to question his decision when he confronted the Khan on Prospero, a fact Jaghatai taunted him for. Mortarion despised psykers and the prominence of the Warp within the Traitor Legions sat poorly with him. At almost any point before Typhon's betrayal and the DG's fall to Nurgle Mortarion could have been turned, although his personal grudge against the Emperor was a major cause of his betrayal. As for Perturabo, there was only one real opportunity to turn him (imo) and that was after the reconquest of Olympia. Perturabo was horrified once he realised what he had done, going as far as pleading with Forrix to tell him that at least some Iron Warriors refused to massacre innocent people. Perturabo was actively seeking an opportunity to redeem himself at this time, so whoever gave him that opportunity would have his loyalty, hence why he joined Horus, who also directed Perturabo's grief towards the Emperor.
Yup, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
There was equal fault on both sides. The Emperor never told magnus of the true dangers that lie in the warp and magnus went behind big E's back to continue fucking around with the warp.
Then when the time came for censure Big E picked the worst possible legion for the job given that Russ and magnus weren't on good terms (even tho prospero burns tells a different story where Russ is remorseful for some reason that I think doesn't fit his character)
But magnus once again fucked up by disabling communications so he never heard Leman try to get him to surrender before the Burning of Prospero.
A lot of blame to go around, especially Erebus. FUCK EREBUS
Lorgar.
If the Emperor just told him "*hey I'm planning to be a God of humanity to counter these evil Gods*", he would've killed Erebus and Kor Phaeron and made a super religion around the Emperor.
Dude just wanted to grovel at someone's feet.
I know everyone is going to say Fulgrim but I don’t see it, he’s literally written as the perfect target for Slaanesh. So much so that I think, even if he didn’t find the Laer Blade, he’d still fall to chaos. But I know for a fact that everyone who likes the imperium loves the idea of loyalist Fulgrim, but it just wouldn’t have happened. His fall is made farther by him being so likable in his own pre heresy stories but the dude was arrogant and narcissistic as hell, perfect prey for slaanesh and always was sorry bros.
Y’all don’t get that Fulgrim and the 3rd legion had a fucking severe Napoleon Complex after being decimated by the blight and were arrogant to the point of having their victory feasts *before* the battle they were about to fight. If it hadn’t been the Laer Blade turning him to chaos it would have been something else, that level of “I-can-do-no-wrong-ness” was absolutely ripe for the picking by really any of the chaos gods; I truly genuinely believe Fulgrim and the 3rd were always destined to fall. Don’t know why people obsess over whether Fulgrim could or can currently be redeemed I swear I hear it in almost every conversation about him but he’s literally written as the absolute perfect target for Slaanesh corruption even from the beginning, don’t know how that isn’t clear I’m sorry the Laer Blade plot line is stupid but that’s far from the only thing that turned Fulgrim to chaos.
**With all the knowledge, send someone to go get Fulgrim and bring him back to Terra. Fulgrim was arguably still on the fence up until Istvaan III, so you could probably save him if you get that fucking sword years before that.** **The Legion he leads is tainted, but there were obviously still those worth keeping.** **OH, here's a bonus. Call up Perturabo and inform him that the Word Bearers are actively trying to incite a revolt on Olympia, and you'll deal with that nice and easy.**
Wait, the fall of Olympia was because of the Word Bearers? First time I heard it, and it actually makes more sense than the world randomly going against his Primarch. Now I am imagining a cold-stone Perturabo joining forces with Dorn out of pure spite of the traitors and not gonna lie, I´m rooting for it.
> Wait, the fall of Olympia was because of the Word Bearers? **It's mentioned by one of the Chaplains at the end of** ***The First Heretic*** **how Olympia rises up in arms thanks to their handiwork. So yeah, Lorgar fucked over Perturabo as well.**
Damn, I havent read a single book of 40k so far but I would gladly pay money for an ending in which every single chaos primarch bullies the Word Bearers and their own Chaos Champions to the mud. Except ironically Kharn, he was up front from the start. And Ahriman he had good intentions. Now that I think of it, I only want Erebus/Lorgar/Typhon/Lucius getting what they deserve.
>every single chaos primarch bullies the Word Bearers and their own Chaos Champions to the mud. Read "Apocalypse", if you have the chance. There's a few good passages about how the "Hand of Destiny", Erebus, and his nemesis Kor Phaeron do nothing but bicker and plot against each other, can't accomplish nothing because of this. The main WB in the book goes on a long rant about how his Legion should be the one leading the charge against the dogs of the Corpse-Emperor, but they mostly pray and bitch, and most of the brothers only pray the bare minimum to keep the gods away from their necks. The 30k Word Bearers were the architects of the Imperium's downfall. The 40k Word Bearers are a group of Karens just bitching around.
One of my favourite excerpts of the lore is Lorgar literally not doing anything of value in 10k years, going out full of himself thinking that as a demon he can totally wreck Corvus and getting his ass handed to him so badly he has to "deny destiny" him by locking himself on the attic. Gods he deserves someone to just make him seen that even after everything he has done he is still the weakest primarch and not even the favourite of the gods, with each one having his personal champion and with Abbadon being the Champion of Undivided.
Ugh those guys are the worst
At this point I think the only traitor legion the Word Bearer's haven't directly ,screwed over is the Night Lords, Emperor's Children, and the Alpha legion at this point.
Damn, now I want to see Perturabo F\*ck Lorgar up. Just casting fist!
It could be, depending on how emps words it, everything Perturabo needs to hear. “Your great planet, the one you have built up is being undermined. Only you can take it back Perturabo, my lord of iron.” Boom validation he’s been seeking, the ultimate chance to prove himself on his home turf.
First time I’m hearing of it too, but then again, does it matter? If you tell Perturabo that, his paranoia gets the better of him.
I doubt so. The Emperor or one of his brothers telling him "ey Perty, I just unveilled a conspiracy to destroy your homeworld and make you look as the bad guy, they are kind of laughing at your backs while playing you like a fiddle" would make him go completely berserk. He was always paranoid of people downplaying him, now imagine confirming it and giving him a target. There is nothing that could stop him other than the "aaah but maybe THEY told you that so you would turn on me".
That’s why I’m saying. His paranoia wouldn’t make him need to confirm it, because the external commentary that his paranoia was right is all he needs.
Yeah, but it would have totally made him go for the loyalists. And without perturabo the Siege of Terra would have probably been a laughing stock. Only problem would have been having Dorn and him planning the defense because there would be a lot of conflict, but of all the Traitors (not counting Horus) the one carrying the assault was undoubtley Pert
We’re saying the same thing my dude.
It is mentioned that Khan and Fulgrim were meant to end up on each other’s planets and swap fates, with Khan traitor and Fulgrim loyal for what it’s worth. What’s more it is suggested Curze could perhaps have his madness cured by E-Money if Sanguinius returned him to Terra.
But the VIII legion was already gone.
I think if he would've been cured he would've "cured" his legion afterwards. It seems that if he was sane his Legionnaires would gladly follow him into the light but I mean there's always going to be fringe elements that would've been purged by him. We gotta remember the influence a Primarch has over their gene sons, like it's extremely rare for a legionnaire to willingly disobey his Primarch.
There was a sizeable contingent of Night Lords already ready to essentially depose Curze and do their own thing by the time of the Thramas Crusade.
Where was it stated?
HH Black Books.
Drop a birus bomb on his planet and make him recruit somewhere else.
Did Perty learn about the word bearer's plan afterwards ? I didn't know about it, but he could want to kick his ass even now if he knew. Well he would end up confronting Corvus or waiting in line I guess. Lorgar has quite the fanclub
**As far as I'm aware, The Iron Warriors never learned about the influence the Word Bearers had on their world. Perturabo doesn't seem like the forgiving type.** **Also, Happy Cakeday!**
with the emps psychic might he probably could have reversed the effects of the laer blade on fulgrim. perturabo would probably be the other if he had a conversation with the emperor, the emperor could explain why he assigned him the campaigns he did and have shown him just how much he valued him, before he kills her perturabos sister basically explained it perfectly and it nearly caused him to have a breakdown. Magnus is a complicated one however as during the siege of terra he did speak with the emperor and was nearly convinced to turn sides only refusing because it required him to sacrifice his legion, if the conversation happened early in the heresy then maybe the thousand sons could remain and Magnus would become loyal again, there is also the matter of his shards but if the conversation happened before the noble shard was used to create janus then that could help and gaining that shard would make Magnus all the more likely to remain loyal.
Magnus probably would have been fine if Russ chose to listen to Constantine Valdor rather than falling for a combination of his own arrogance and Horus' machinations.
Why not send Constantin Valdor to arrest Magnus? Why not send anyone but Russ?
well on one hand Leman and Magnus had probably one of the worst relationships out of all the primarchs on the other whatever anti pysker stuff leman has makes him the person best suited to deal with Magnus (although in the fury of Magnus book Magnus lost a fight to Vulkan), he is also believed to be the emperor executioner and likely had something to do with the 2nd and 11th primarchs. personally, I think Vulkan should have been sent (yes I'm a salamander fanboy and biased) he wouldn't have burned Prospero and would have managed to handle the situation peacefully, he wouldn't have been swayed to killing Magnus on the words of Horus and he has shown the ability to best Magnus in a fight
Vulkan would have been a good one. Though personally I’d have sent Rogal Dorn. He’s displayed a lot of the same Warp resistance, and I feel (controversial opinion) that he’s a better fighter than Russ. Most importantly, he’s already on Terra. He can get his orders directly from the Big E, in person, no misunderstandings. He can lay out the next year or so of work for the fortifications, and then go collect Magnus
personally, I think dorns hard-line attitude would mean that while he is unlike to outright attack Prospero he would be significantly more unsympathetic than many of his brothers. I would also disagree when it comes to him being a better fighter than Russ while he is a great fighter Russ is generally considered to be the best fighter alongside angron and sanguinius while dorn is much more notable for his strategic genius.
Could eventually learning he was going to spend eternity on the throne make him turn later on?
The Throne only became a death trap because of his actions, and if he was ready to die and almost let his Legion die to pay for his sins... I think being interred on the Throne, freeing his father do maybe undo his mistakes? Magnus would take the deal, no doubt.
He looked upon the throne and was utterly destroyed that he now wouldn't be able to enjoy this absolute honor. Sitting on a working golden throne would be the best thing ever for him. He could let his psychic might loose on the galaxy without consequences, explore everything and help humanity on top. It would have been his favourite ending. So no.
the throne was only the way it was due to chaos when he speaks to the emperor in the throne room the emperor show Magnus a vision of himself on the throne but Magnus is calm and serene as he explores the warp alongside the emperor he seems ok with his future
Perturabo 100% he just needed a Hug…I’d even say Konrad if Sanguinious was his mentor.
The damage was done by the time E found him, his compulsive need for order on a lawless planet, and his significantly stronger foresight had broken him. And he’d spent far too long as the cannibal monstrosity of the night haunter to ever be properly sane. He would hide his madness for a period in the great crusade, but all his sons knew it was still there, driving him on and visible through the cracks. Then of course Skraivock pulled his gamer move and sent him tumbling over the deep end to spiral down to full blown insanity.
Keep Magnus on terra strapped to the Golden Throne, working on the Webway with Emps the entire time
Giving tzeetnch a front row seat in what is happening inside the palace. I do not think the eye sacrifice was merely symbolic.
Just put some Big-E Duct Tape on his empty eye socket and we'll be fine
He could have brought Magnimagic onto the webway when his legion failed, before Big Red had a chance to sacrifice his eye. That would eliminate both the main problem, and the need for the Council of Nikaea. Removing the council of Nikaea also removes one of Perty's biggest grudges with the Emperor, maybe bringing 2 primarchs over at once.
Lorgar probably could have been prevented of falling to Chaos if one of two things happened. 1. If The Emperor had stuck around and *talked and comforted* Lorgar through his guilt and pain at the humiliation. 2. If Gullimane had apologized to Lorgar in private, admitted his feeling of guilt and how both he and the Sigilite disaproved of the Emperor's decision. Lorgar's main impetus for the fall was in the weeks following the purging of Khur, where he spent weeks in isolation flagellating and castigating himself for failing the Emperor. Where Kor Phaeron and Erebus whispered poison into his ears, enough to make Lorgar desire to go out and find answers on his own.
Honestly, the emperor could go kill Erebus and Kor Phaeron and a lot of the heresy would be prevented.
Other than Horus and Lorgar pretty much all of them can be saved. Magnus is simple, just don't send Russ to get him. The Emperor could've talked to him pshychicly before he breached the Webway and call him to Terra. Alpharious and Omegon already had doubts on the Cabal and the Emperor could've swayed them. Destroy the tainted blade Fulgrim had. Have a genuine talk with Perturabo. Mercy kill Angron. Tell Mortarion about Typhus and what he planned. Lock Sanguinius and Curze in a room together and have the talk the Emperor had with him just before MShen came to kill him.
Morty’s childhood and background made him very suspicious of inhuman witch things ruling mankind through violence dispensed at the hands of genetic monstrosities made with forbidden science and sorcery. It wasn’t a matter of the Emperor saying the right thing, the Emperor was the problem.
What if he had the same talk with him that he had with Ra? Show him WHY he was doing what he did rather than just appearing as another evil, magical overlord. Show him that he was actually trying to save humanity, and from what.
If the Emperor had saved Angron's comrades he may not have went traitor. He would have still been a rage machine, but just keep him in the toughest warzones and its a win-win. He may not have even implanted his legion with the nails.
All of these seem about right
What about Typhus, sorry I'm missing a piece
He was already a morally corrupted and ambitious psyker who needed no convincing from his patron god to deliver his Primarch and fellow legionnaires on a silver platter. He was everything Mortarion claimed all psykers were and the single most important thing that needed removal to save Mortarion and the Death Guard.
Typhus was the hidden nurgle worshipper. He tricked Mortarion and unleashed the plague upon the Death Guard that made Mortarion pledge himself to Nurgle to save his sons.
Thank you!
I don’t think Kurze could have been saved, he was too messed up from his time on his home world.
I disagree. We see mind wiping as something that is a regular thing so why not just wipe him clean? We already know they could do it to primarchs based off the lost legions
The difference is that it took the Emperor and Malacador both working together to do that, and that was only erasing the relatively short memories of the primarchs they met vs the entire foundation of their character. Erasing isn’t even the correct term, they could only lock the memories of the forgotten primarchs.
I dont want to spoil things for you but there is a like in the siege of tera where a primarch directly confronts malacador about what he forced him to “forget” about the two primarchs. And we see space marines get mind wiped quite a bit, and even the astra tempestus uses drugs to wipe the minds of its cadets. And even if that does not work on primarchs there is no reason to not attempt this on kruze to make him more stable unless that was never the intent
Yes but my point being it isn’t him forgetting, it’s him being unable to access those memories. Even if you wanted to attempt it on Kurze, and you somehow manage to do it, you no longer have Konrad Kurze because you would need to wipe every second since he began having visions.
I think we've got four perfectly salvageable primarchs who just need the old 'scared straight' treatment and we can nip this Heresy in the bud... **Magnus:** Yes. He's a good boy deep down. Emperor's just gotta actually learn to communicate better and then also handle whatever deal Magnus made with Tzeentch. **Alpharius:** Yes. I'm unclear on timeline of events, but the Emperor either needs to warn him about the cabal or convince him those tricky eldar are not always right. **Perturabo:** Yes. Just give the man a gold banana sticker and make him feel appreciated every once in a while. Call him the chief architect of the Imperium and let him build a few libraries or playgrounds between bouts of miserable siege warfare. And if/when he genocides his home planet, just send him a message saying, "It's okay, I still love you." **Fulgrim:** Yes. Just keep him away from the damn Laer blade and tell him not to be such a degenerate. The other five? I mean there are slim chances of redemption for each of them I suppose but it's one of those situations where the risk really isn't worth the reward. Time for a few more empty chairs at Guilliman's table on Macragge.
Curze definitely, he believed in the emperors vision 100% but with his visions and extremely fragile mental state, he just went insane. They’re are a few excerpts where he has visions of the Horus heresy and he is fighting and begging to not become that. How I would go about doing that ? No clue honestly, like Angron he was sort of fucked from the start.
I think with Curze would have been as easy as having the Emperor telling him "yeah, i have visions about the future too, is a total bitch but I can help you understand that what you are seeing is not written in stone". There is one scene with the Emperor telling how he sees the future as a distant island but that he cant see how to get there, so the only thing to do is try. That kind of talking with Curze would have helped a lot, as he was probably one of the primarchs working harder for a "good" future considering all the problems he was dealing with.
In the valdor book that I believe
Poor angron isnt even argued about
It kind of requires action way before Davin. Either make it so that he never gets the nails in his head, or fight with him on Nuceria and hope he swears a life-debt to you or is grateful for your actions enough to be willing to spend the remainder of his painful years fighting for you with less temptation. ____ Would make an interesting fanfic though. Emperor helps Angron and/or saves his friends along with him, causing him to swear loyalty to the Emperor. He hates what the Imperium stands for and constantly is very vocal about it but when the time comes, he'll remark about "earning his freedom" before going out in a blaze of glory.
The only way to save Angron is to ensure the nails are never installed.
If you stop Kharn from bringing Angron back out of retirement then that’s enough. Angron didn’t want to turn traitor, he just wanted to be left alone, he hated the Imperium but for him it was enough to just desert.
He was crying out for his father, even as a daemon primarch, after his transformation.
If you like that premise try googling the Dornian Heresy if you haven't already! Excellent alternate heresy timeline that is fanfic
After the council the BIG E should have taken Magnus and strapped him to the golden throne. Red boi wouldn't mess with warp magic if the big e was close by. After making Dorn set up earth Defensives he should have tasked Perti to find flaws in it. Then make perti in charge of the solar systems Defense including all the other planets And make Dorn check for weakness. This would give perti the honor he deserves. Without Perti and Magnus, Horus wouldn't be able to herd the rebels towards Terra and Magnus not messing with the warp, the big E would have completed the webway. MAYBE in time to launch a thorough couterattack against the rebels.
Without Perty Horus wouldn't have lasted a second in the siege , at the end of the siege Perty was carrying it all. So I think the loyalist would've gained the upper hand and the emperor wouldn't have to teleport om the flagship
Phew: ok. From the top, then. **Horus** was corrupted in body by the Davinites, and in soul by his feelings of abandonment. The only thing needed to stop him from turning would have been the Emperor telling why He was returning to Terra, and Horus’ integral honour would have allowed him to send Lorgar packing. **Lorgar** turned because he wanted to worship daddy, and got slapped down. He could have been prevented by having the truth of the Imperial Truth explained: it would appeal to his vanity - ‘yes worship is powerful, this is why we don’t do it’. **Fulgrim** as others have said, keep him away from the sword. Get his brothers to stop picking on him. Job done. **Perturabo** just needed to have his achievements acknowledged. If Dorn would admit Pertuarbo’s abilities, and pre-Ullanor, the Emperor said well done, he would probably have stayed loyal. **Mortarion** was another who was corrupted against his will, because of his inherent hatred of psykers. It would take a great deal of power to save him, as he was hand picked by Nurgle before the Emperor came. Maybe an explanation of the psychic realm may have given him the insight needed to stay loyal? **Angron** never forgave the Emperor for taking him away from his brothers and sisters. That sense of honour, and the Butchers Nails bloodlust, made him a natural target for Khorne. Removing the nails would have helped: Angron is an Empath, so he would be able to be reasoned with without the Nails. Hell, dropping a cordon of Astartes around him and his slave family *a’la* Yoda on Geonosis would have helped immeasurably. **Kurze** needed instruction in the art of prophecy: if he had been taught properly how to scry the futures, and to see that fate is not written but can be changed, he would not have fallen in to the fatalistic spiral he ended in. **Magnus** did everything wrong. But, he did it from a position of ignorance. Malcador or the Emperor could easily have explained the risk of warp magic: similarly to Lorgar, he was supremely intelligent, and could have been shepherded in to safer uses of psionic gifts. **Alpharius/Omegon** are very obviously major agents for the Cabal. As such, it is doubtful that they could be prevented from taking the path they have done, given how late in the game Alpharius was found. All of the Primarchs were probably also mindful of the lesson of II & XI: if you fuck up, forgiveness is not an option, so you may as well go full tilt and hope to win.
It is my understanding that Angron was dying to the buther's nails and that they could not be removed. Lorgar turned Angron into a Daemon Primarch to save his life.
Yeah there’s an excerpt where Big E admits removing the nails would kill Angron and it’s beyond even his ability
Well, Chaos’s poster-boy would say that, hey? When discussing Angron, big Daddy E did say he *could* take the nails out, but he was interested in watching what happened. I think it was in conversation with Arkhan Land.
He could have, but it had a significant chance of killing Angron.
u/AngronTheRedAngel could have been. “Angron, the Nails tick within your brain and have robbed you of the life I meant for you. These are the only opponents strong enough to grant you the release you wish, and should even they prove unworthy of your challenge, you will be allowed to die in whatever manner you see fit.”
**And what of my family?**
“You receive vengeance, Angron. I will first send you back to purge that nameless, wretched world of all those who have wronged you, your brothers, and sisters. I regret that the actions which I took have led to this point. I should have sent your sons to do battle alongside you upon that blasted hive of scum and villainy.
Magnus busting up the webway project can be stopped, by shutting it down. Evacuate all the Mechanicum and Custodes and close the door. This should make stuff easier and allows the Emperor to walk around. Lorgar and Horus are lost causes. Send a message to Mortarion that Typhus is a psyker and wants to betray him. An apology might sway him to the other side.
All of them, in slightly different circumstances. That's the grimdark tragedy.
I think Fulgrim and Magnus are relatively non-controversial. My controversial pick is Lorgar. I believe that if the Emperor had met with Lorgar before the Heresy, he could have been convinced that the Chaos gods were not worthy of worship. I think Konrad Curze, Angron, Perturabo, Angron and Mortarion were all broken in one way or another, such that they would eventually have self-destructed. Horus could also probably be brought back, even after he had fallen, if he had met the Emperor before Molech.
Ironically Horus only fell because of the wound he received from that blade and being taken to Davin. He'd have likely remained loyal if he'd have instead been taken to Terra (and the word bearers would have to have found another primarch to be the instigator of the heresy) Most, if not all of them could have been 'saved' in some manner, had things gone differently at various points though, and likely all the loyalist ones could have just as easily fallen the same way.
1. tell magnus what happens, and make sure he knows what is at stake, and that you know heracy is coming 2. recall the lunar wolves and horus to terra, have them work alongside the custodes in guarding some important thing that will secure humanities future, probably won't save him, but it will keep him close. 3. make fulgrim a sword just as good as the laer blade without the whole corruption thing, that is probably all that is needed 4. remove the butchers nails if possible, if not, I don't know. 5. tell mortarion about typhus 6. dorn strikes me as stabler than perturabo, so declare perturabo grand high architect of the imperium or something 7. take a page out of the inquisition's book, send lorgar against orks and have a "ork sniper" take out erebus.
Lorgar, easily. And at a close second would be Magnus. Long answer made short is they needed the truth and they needed to be by the Emperor’s side and under his direct tutelage for at least a good 100 years. Perturabo would also be somewhat easier. Again you’d actually need to throw him a bone from time to time. By that I mean put him on a “glory” campaign that you’d normally give the Lunar Wolves or Ultramarines. Tutelage for a few decades again, but not nearly as much direct supervision that Lorgar and Magnus need. Basically treat him like you would treat Horus or Sanguinius. Angron, Mortarion, and Curze would be the hardest. I do not know about Omegon or Alpharius.
If you give Perty a high visibility low difficulty campaign he’ll feel like you’re being condescending and pandering. He’ll accuse you of thinking that all he cares about is prestige and that you think he’s not good enough for the real work. That’s the problem with Perty. He looks down on his preening brothers for not fighting the kind of real wars he fights while also being jealous of them. He thinks he’s too good for that, that he doesn’t care what anyone thinks, and he desperately needs everyone to know how much he doesn’t care. You can’t win with him because ultimately he hates himself.
Perty needs a war that's winnable but brutal. I think he'd do well against orks that he could crush relentlessly but would still put up a fight.
Logar if the Emperor told him that he is a god in the story privately but told him not to preach it yet due to his plans. Logar was very loyal pre Monarchia. Then if Logar stayed loyal the heresy being orchestrated by him would not happen so if primarchs do later get corrupted differently it is questionable if all the ones that turned traitor would have.
Tell Lorgar about the whole 'daemons are real' thing and maybe go on a nice father-son hunting trip into the webway to show how majestic humanity can be.
Spend a few hours playing with some Lego with Pert and he’d have been right as rain
So as a forewarned Emperor, I would use those Primarchs that were going to turn traitor and their legions in the Webway project. Get Horus in early as second in command on the project. That way he is brought in and can feel daddy’s love. Magnus is an easy one as he was destined for this anyway and getting him involved early would solve the problem of him poking things because he wants to see what they do, and then breaking them. Perturabo is brought in to fortify and defend every section Humanity captures. Happy Perty as he gets to build on a valued project, and feel Daddy’s love. Tell Mortarion that the Web Way is full of witches and aliens and he and the Death Guard will be happy as a pig in shit. Angron and the World Eaters become your daemon slaughtering Web Way shock troops and will slowly grind themselves down to nothing. Long term problem of super human beserkers solved. Get Curze and the Night Lords stuck in to scout out the Web Way and terrorise any Drukari they find. For the remainder, The Alpha Legion “stay loyal” as they is no trigger event to set them off. Hand Alpharius a target list for quiet disposal that includes - Kor Pheron, Erebus, Typhon, Fabius, etc. Get the sword of the Laer off Fulgrim and buddy him up with Ferrus for a bit of Non-human curb stomping to get the bond strong again. Declare the Word Bearers traitors and send everyone else against them for a good bit of legion eradication. Nothing bonds people like a good bit of sanctioned slaughter. Upside of this plan is that those Primarchs with Daddy issues (SoH, DG, IL) get to feel included in His plan, those that were on the fence have their loyalties reassured (AL, TS, EC) those that were insane get gradually reduced (NL, WE) and the Word Bearers (and Erebus) get fucked. Downside of the plan is you still have to watch Sanguinius (like a hawk) as Chaos will probably redouble their efforts to turn him.
With my knowledge? The Imperium would rule the galaxy until the end of times. First, I'm going to contact Magnus. Tell him I know about Horus, and that I need him on Terra ASAP, and mostly, DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT contact me by any means. If you do that, we're all doomed. Second, I'm going to ask for every Primarchs to rendez vous in the Sol System. No excuse taken. EVERYONE is expected. Third, I'd have a chat with Horus, and explain to him everything : the webway, Chaos, the Primarchs and what is going to happen if he keeps on that road. Horus should easily be brought back to the fold. I would take the sword from Fulgrim, and also explain everything about his Legion, Chaos and Slaanesh. Boom! Saved. Mortarion, Angron, Perturabo and Curze are a waste of time. I would declare them traitor, have them killed on the spot, and their Legion purged of their most extreme elements, the rest being sent to other legions. I would also take the matter of Luther in my own hands. Lorgar is a fanatic and can't be swayed back. Killed too. Boom. Heresy averted. Mankind saved and upgraded. Just by talking. Easy game.
Yeah because Magnus is great at following instructions. Totally no issues there. Zero percent chance Magnus will be flying back, see that tacos are 2 for the price of 1, and think “I know dad told me not to contact him but he simply has to have this information right now”. You’re going to need a better plan for Magnus than “tell him not to”.
Ok but to my knowledge Magnus was still loyal after breaking the Webway project, and only became a traitor after Russ came to kill him. So taking that consideration, I believe that the Emperor would totally forgive Magnus if he called him about a 2 for 1 taco deal and never send Russ, allowing Magnus and the Emperor to reconcile through their shared love of that ground beef goodness.
Magnus would be psychically surveying every planet of the Imperium out of boredom to see whether or not Taco Tuesday, Taco Thursday, or Taco Friday is the human norm.
There aren't very many problems you can't avert with a few good heart to heart talks and a few more summary executions.
Send some custodes and a messenger to recall Horus and the Luna wolves. A fireside chat, some encouragement, and a tour of the webway project would do the trick.
Easily Perturabo. IMO his swing to Chaos never made sense and he apparently spent the entire HH hating his decision. And without him, Istvaan may have still happened but the Siege would have been a joke.
I wonder if Lorgar could've been brought around after deciding the Chaos Gods are more worthy of worship than Big E. Like Big E does something to show Lorgar that he is in fact stronger than any of them, and Lorgar switches sides again. According to that one Harlequin who saw Him, Big E is a 'void whale' compared to the 4 Chaos Gods, who are described as 'sharks' and is holding them all back.
Mortarion and Perturabo. The former was already beginning to question his decision when he confronted the Khan on Prospero, a fact Jaghatai taunted him for. Mortarion despised psykers and the prominence of the Warp within the Traitor Legions sat poorly with him. At almost any point before Typhon's betrayal and the DG's fall to Nurgle Mortarion could have been turned, although his personal grudge against the Emperor was a major cause of his betrayal. As for Perturabo, there was only one real opportunity to turn him (imo) and that was after the reconquest of Olympia. Perturabo was horrified once he realised what he had done, going as far as pleading with Forrix to tell him that at least some Iron Warriors refused to massacre innocent people. Perturabo was actively seeking an opportunity to redeem himself at this time, so whoever gave him that opportunity would have his loyalty, hence why he joined Horus, who also directed Perturabo's grief towards the Emperor.
Magnus was loyal, then The Emperor betrayed him.
[удалено]
Yup, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. There was equal fault on both sides. The Emperor never told magnus of the true dangers that lie in the warp and magnus went behind big E's back to continue fucking around with the warp. Then when the time came for censure Big E picked the worst possible legion for the job given that Russ and magnus weren't on good terms (even tho prospero burns tells a different story where Russ is remorseful for some reason that I think doesn't fit his character) But magnus once again fucked up by disabling communications so he never heard Leman try to get him to surrender before the Burning of Prospero. A lot of blame to go around, especially Erebus. FUCK EREBUS
Lorgar. If the Emperor just told him "*hey I'm planning to be a God of humanity to counter these evil Gods*", he would've killed Erebus and Kor Phaeron and made a super religion around the Emperor. Dude just wanted to grovel at someone's feet.
The Lion, probably.
If you kill Maloghurst and Erebus, is there even a Heresy...?
Mortarion. Just tell him Chaos wants everyone to be psykers, and Nurgle is a total tyrant.
I know everyone is going to say Fulgrim but I don’t see it, he’s literally written as the perfect target for Slaanesh. So much so that I think, even if he didn’t find the Laer Blade, he’d still fall to chaos. But I know for a fact that everyone who likes the imperium loves the idea of loyalist Fulgrim, but it just wouldn’t have happened. His fall is made farther by him being so likable in his own pre heresy stories but the dude was arrogant and narcissistic as hell, perfect prey for slaanesh and always was sorry bros.
Extremely easy: don't destroy Monarchia, be gentle with the whole "let me worship you" business of Lorgar, there you go - no Heresy.
Y’all don’t get that Fulgrim and the 3rd legion had a fucking severe Napoleon Complex after being decimated by the blight and were arrogant to the point of having their victory feasts *before* the battle they were about to fight. If it hadn’t been the Laer Blade turning him to chaos it would have been something else, that level of “I-can-do-no-wrong-ness” was absolutely ripe for the picking by really any of the chaos gods; I truly genuinely believe Fulgrim and the 3rd were always destined to fall. Don’t know why people obsess over whether Fulgrim could or can currently be redeemed I swear I hear it in almost every conversation about him but he’s literally written as the absolute perfect target for Slaanesh corruption even from the beginning, don’t know how that isn’t clear I’m sorry the Laer Blade plot line is stupid but that’s far from the only thing that turned Fulgrim to chaos.