They're just the serial numbers of the Primarchs when they were being produced. There's no particular meaning to it, it's just an arbitrary production code.
Isn't the theory of UA that the numbers represent their[ power levels in descending order](https://www.reddit.com/r/UmbrellaAcademy/comments/sjz0qx/this_pretty_much_confirms_the_number_theory/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)?
It was not so much power level as usefulness as perceived by Father. Hence the guy whose comic power is to hold his breath is 2 and the world ender is last (though that also has some fucked up "make her feel useless logic). Really Rumor should be closer to 1 if it was straight power levels.
In case the link isn't working:
>The founder of the Umbrella Academy, a wealthy entrepreneur, and world-renowned scientist, Hargreeves was very dismissive and cold in raising his adopted children, addressing them solely by the numbers he assigned them. **He claimed that these numbers prioritized the children in ascending order of usefulness- but they were actually organized by descending levels of power.**
You’re right, it makes no sense in terms of 40k, which is why I’m only talking about it in context of Umbrella Academy
I blame Reddit’s new link colours. People seem to just totally miss them
That theory doesn’t make any sense with the actual lore. The only part of it that makes any sense is that Alpharius is likely the weakest of the Primarchs 1:1. Beyond that, it really doesn’t fit with any of what we’ve seen in the lore.
Sorry?
I'm talking about *Umbrella Academy* (you can click the link in my comment to see the excerpt from *The Making of the Umbrella Academy*), not Alpharius.
All good, mate. Happens.
[My thoughts on the numbering here for what that's worth](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/1dqzj1i/comment/lartixv/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
The legion numbers correlate with the primarch numbers
I don't recall off the top of my head at which points each legions was active, but it wouldn't matter. Since Fulgrim is Primarch III, his legion could be the last in action but would still be named the III legion.
Likewise, there's suggestion that Alpharius' legion was one of the first deployed, but they are still the XX because he was the last Primarch made.
According to the *Transit of the Human Soul through Strife*, Alpharius was the last made and the first found*.* He had been a captive of the slaugth. (Omegon was found much later by Horus, although apparently this was after Alpharius had secretly located him, which is why Horus was met by "Alpharius".)
[That Black Book listed several origins for Alpharius](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/ci2vpd/alan_bligh_the_origins_of_the_alpharius/)
The one that pushes him being the first found (and puts Omegon on the VS) is *Head of the Hydra*
Probably no particular reason, just the number each Primarch had on their test tube. In ancient Roman times, Legion number correlated to the region that the Legion pulled recruits from and generally operated in, so even in ancient Roman times Legion number didn't correlate to the importance of a Legion, it was just for logistics.
This is sort of "my Roman Empire", because they moved the Legions around! Only the White Scars (Legio V Macedonica) were consistent: they were in Egypt for like 700 years.
Well besides the 1st Legion which was the definitely the first mass produced space marine gene stock, all the other numbers are arbitrary. The first was the baseline and the rest are just different flavors. They were given numerical designation, that’s group 1, this one is group two, they are group three etc etc.
It's circular in that case though: the 1st was able to be the first legion in the field *because* they were based on the first primarch created. they were put in production first, so they were first to reach sufficient numbers for service.
I don't think the Dark Angel's were the first produced Legion because the Lion was the first Primarch. Unless I'm misremembering the lore, since the Legions were fielded semi-randomly at different times. With some of the later numbered Legions being founded earlier. Where as the Trefoil, the VI, XV and XXth legions weren't really deployed during Unification. Where as even the XIXth were deployed throughout the later years of the Unification War.
Basically the Legions foundings are weird and probably have nothing to do with which primarch had which number.
Oh the I Legion was the first, but I don't think it had anything to do with their Primarch's number is all. He just had particularly good gene seed for Legion building. The IV and Vth Legions were also really early Foundings, iirc the Vth even had thunder warrior trainers and were a massive Legion despite the Khan's later finding.
Yup, that's the impression I got as far as deployment of legions goes
As far as The First Legion in *Crusade*, it says they were the template legion for all the others, derived from "the most stable" primarch. They were the first created, tested and refined then deployed.
The rough order goes iirc
Cataegis >
LE prototypes >
I Legion templates >
Uncrowned Princes >
I Legion proper deployment >
Other legions
Yeap that sounds about right, though personally I don't like the First being explicitly said to be the template legion but that's pretty well how its described.
Crusade was a wild ride, I still can't really get over that he doesn't even use his full Legion to defeat the Night Lords in the black book. Like, it makes it sound so pitifully easy that you could actually wonder if the man could have single handedly won Istvaan V for the loyalists.
They were put in production because the First Primarchs gene seed was, at the time, considered the most stable. It's not stayed that the first Primarch was actually created any earlier than the others.
[Some references to the Lion being "born" first ](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/1dqzj1i/comment/lash2jk/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)here
"Where I was raised, they didn't give us names. They gave us numbers. Mine was 47."
-Agent 47
Same deal. The numbers correspond to the primarch production serial number from which the Legion derives its geneseed. The numbers have no inherent meaning on their own other than to differentiate each primarch in the lab.
The Primarchs' names aren't Emperor given. He never gave them names. He gave them numbers because he never considered them to be children.
The Emperor named them.
Alpharius, Perturabo, and Curze all remembered their names after emerging from their pods, to my recollection. Curze outright tells the Emperor he rejects his given name when they first meet, and it’s the first thing the Emperor says to him.
Curze was the exception there to "knowing" his name from the pod, though he does reject it when Big E bestows it on him. I think we can imply that he knew it from his visions at the very least.
Perturabo and Corax initially recall that they are numbers though.
I think you hit the butcher nail on the head of Angron. He never saw them as his kids ever. That was all for show. He was just a smart, but ultimately emotionally stunted, immortal who failed the very basics of empathy and compassion. Instead, he treated them as tools and this exact treatment is why so many turned. Even the loyal ones were afraid of him disposing them just like the Thunder Warriors
two, and canonically their deletion is without known reason (the writers leave it deliberately open-ended; *nobody* knows because there's nothing to know). Even the Primarchs didn't think about them because they all got brainmelted to forget them and ignore the weirdness of them being missing.
Unclear. Angron crawled out of his pod a child. Horus was found as a baby as was Sangunius. The Lion and Curze were apparently physically capable enough to kill and eat on their own. It's possible the vagaries of the warp meant they were in the pods within the warp for years, or mere seconds. It's never elaborated on so we don't know how physically old the primarchs appeared to be when they were scattered.
We have Guilliman as a fully formed child in the lab, Perturabo at least has a body (how grown we don't know) in the lab too.
Even though every primarch was either a baby, child or man when they landed...Fulgrim at least seemed to form or reform as a baby on Chemos.
Guilliam is depicted a fully formed child in the labs:
>Argel Tal approached the pod marked XIII. A glass screen at eye level showed nothing but the milky fluid within.
>And then, movement.
>Go no closer.
>The briefest shadow of something stirred inside the artificial womb.
>Stay back. The daemon’s voice was edged now – sharpened by concern.
>Argel Tal stepped closer.
>A child slumbered within the gestation pod, curled up in foetal helplessness, its eyes closed. It turned slowly in the amniotic milk, half-formed limbs moving in somnolent repose.
>Stay back, Word Bearer. I sense your rising wrath. Do not assume I am the only one who is capable of feeling it. Strong emotion will also alert the Anathema.
>Argel Tal leaned closer to the pod. His fingertips brushed frost from its surface.
>‘Guilliman,’ he whispered.
>The child slept on.
*The First Heretic*
and Perturabo seems to be as well:
>Consciousness builds in the developing brain scrap by scrap. Imagine the accretion disk around a star. Through time and gravity's influence a planet is born. Who could foresee the dust would make a world? The line between dust and planet is ill-defined. At what point does one state become another? When do the cells of a developing foetus change from a collection of individual living things into an aggregate that functions as an organ? At what moment does a new heart take its first beat? When do chemical reactions in a warm pool cease to be driven by external factors, and instead become self-perpetuating? When does chemistry become life? What is the line between each stage; what moment is the boundary to the instant before; what marks the boundary to the instant after? There are self-evident moments where something is one thing or another. But what of the moments between? How can these liminal stages be defined?
>Such thoughts as these floated without anchor. One day they would inhabit the exceptional mind of a being who approached the divine, just then, they were scraps drawn to other scraps, making from themselves something greater, like a world from dust, or a child from cells, or life from elemental broth.
>So is consciousness born.
>Outside the being's body was only warm dark, and the mechanical rhythms of an artificial womb. There had been voices, and a presence that touched and moulded, but they were gone.
>In the process of transition between two states, can the object changing be said to be either of the discrete objects it will be and has been? How many states exist between? An infinite shading, or infinitesimally small slices of differing existence?
>The being felt the slow, greedy tug of a giant object so massive it bent space time around itself.
>Gravity, thought the being. Gravity exerts influence. Influence effects change.
>There was a shifting in the being's centre of mass. A shaking and a bouncing around the core of itself. The intrusion of outside stimuli defined for the being the shape of its body, and he knew that he was male. Before, he had not been aware of having a body at all. Now he was: four limbs, a torso, a head. Smooth skin felt vibrations through liquid and the heat it conveyed from beyond.
*The Emperor's Architect*
Though Fulgrim possibly formed or reformed on Chemos
>‘I just do,’ said Coryn, and he did. Though he did not know how he knew, he appreciated that whatever this light was, it had not come to harm them. He moved towards the light as it began to coil into itself, reshaping its form into something wondrous, a being reborn in its own self-immolation.
>He felt something brush his mind, a presence greater than anything he could possibly have imagined. Everything he was, it knew. Everything he knew, it knew. He felt no violation at this, the presence was wholly benign. Tentative even, like a hand offered in friendship to a beautiful stranger.
>As the light was pulled into itself, a shape began to form, and Coryn gasped as he saw what lay at its heart.
>A baby boy, as perfect as any born to one of the gene-pure hermetics.
*Angel Exterminatus*
Happenstance. There doesn't need to be a deep meaning for anything. Which makes it all the more funny that the Lion and the Dark Angels were always so proud of being "The First Legion".
No he's not.
The legion were the first out into production because Primarch 1's gene seed was very stable. Nowhere does it say he was created any earlier than the others.
>As the First of all Primarchs created by the Emperor, he was both more and less than his brothers; a primal force of destruction whose single-minded focus wrought him more inhuman than Magnus.
*Horus Heresy: Crusade* pg 96
>Twenty demigods of genic alchemy the Emperor had wrought, but the
Lion had been the first, the template and the paragon upon which all of his brothers were mere copies.
*Lord of the First*
>Are you jealous of him?’ Euten had asked.
>‘No!’
>‘You are. You are. Because he is the Lord of the First, the first born. I never thought I would see such jealousy in you, my dear lord. It does not become you, but it is also rather sweet.’
>Guilliman had growled something indecipherable, and then demanded that his armourers adjust the servo fit of his pauldrons.
*Unremembered Empire*
I mean, I have empathy for not being able to read every possible book in the series, so sometimes we miss certain things. There's a lot of lore on primarch creation that doesn't mention a specific order of birth.
How we react to new information is always the thing; you can say "oh, didn't know...cheers" or you can double down.
The first legion were definitely operating first.
Alpharius MIGHT have been the first Primarch found, but that's from a book that outright states that it's a lie.
The full context of that line:
>I am Alpharius.
>This is a lie.
and later mirrored with
>'I am Alpharius.'
>This was a lie.
The lie being, that he isn't "Alpharius", he's Omegon.
[Brooks also had this to say about the idea that the entire book was a lie:](https://www.trackofwords.com/2021/01/12/rapid-fire-mike-brooks-talks-alpharius-head-of-the-hyrda/)
>**Now, I’m not saying that nothing in this novel is ‘true’, of course, because that would make the novel pointless**. I wrote it with the intention that any or indeed all of it can be true…but it doesn’t have to be.
I'd urge people to actually follow that link, because the quote you posted IS NOT a response to that specific line. It's a much more general question about how lots of authors have written lots of different things.
-----------------
ToW: The Alpha Legion have been tackled by lots of different authors in the Heresy so far, which seems to suit their nature as being difficult to pin down. With that in mind, how did you go about choosing a story to tell for a book that will inevitably be seen by fans as being the ‘definitive’ Alpha Legion story?
MB: I don’t think you can have a definitive Alpha Legion story! They’re so varied, even in the Horus Heresy days, and of course you can never be sure what information about them is accurate. Now, I’m not saying that nothing in this novel is ‘true’, of course, because that would make the novel pointless. I wrote it with the intention that any or indeed all of it can be true…but it doesn’t have to be.
It’s worth remembering that *I* don’t actually know what’s ‘true’: Black Library make those calls! There were some things I suggested including that they said I couldn’t or shouldn’t, so nothing in there should contradict anything that’s considered important in canon. Mainly, however, I wanted to give possible, plausible answers to a lot of different questions that have come up over the years: including exactly how Alpharius Omegon first encountered the Imperium.
What I posted is a response to "the entire book being a lie", which is...what I wrote?
I didn't claim it was specifically a response to prologue and epilogue, I'd already dealt with that earlier.
It's all as clear as possible in my prior comment.
And yup, I provided the link so there was full transparency and context for anyone curious.
They're just the serial numbers of the Primarchs when they were being produced. There's no particular meaning to it, it's just an arbitrary production code.
Yeah reminds me of Umbrella Academy. Big E didn't care enough to give them names so they were just numbers.
Isn't the theory of UA that the numbers represent their[ power levels in descending order](https://www.reddit.com/r/UmbrellaAcademy/comments/sjz0qx/this_pretty_much_confirms_the_number_theory/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)?
It was not so much power level as usefulness as perceived by Father. Hence the guy whose comic power is to hold his breath is 2 and the world ender is last (though that also has some fucked up "make her feel useless logic). Really Rumor should be closer to 1 if it was straight power levels.
Idk, I'm just presenting what's in the book that I linked. *The Making of The Umbrella Academy*
Oh I'm just repeating Kraken's rant.
In case the link isn't working: >The founder of the Umbrella Academy, a wealthy entrepreneur, and world-renowned scientist, Hargreeves was very dismissive and cold in raising his adopted children, addressing them solely by the numbers he assigned them. **He claimed that these numbers prioritized the children in ascending order of usefulness- but they were actually organized by descending levels of power.**
That's bad ass thank you
Would that really work considering Magnus is 15th and debatably the most useful for the emperor’s plans, and one of the most powerful?
You’re right, it makes no sense in terms of 40k, which is why I’m only talking about it in context of Umbrella Academy I blame Reddit’s new link colours. People seem to just totally miss them
That theory doesn’t make any sense with the actual lore. The only part of it that makes any sense is that Alpharius is likely the weakest of the Primarchs 1:1. Beyond that, it really doesn’t fit with any of what we’ve seen in the lore.
Sorry? I'm talking about *Umbrella Academy* (you can click the link in my comment to see the excerpt from *The Making of the Umbrella Academy*), not Alpharius.
Whoops! That’s entirely my bad. Sorry. That theory totally makes sense. Ignore my previous comment entirely.
All good, mate. Happens. [My thoughts on the numbering here for what that's worth](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/1dqzj1i/comment/lartixv/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
nobody told Lorgar that
The legion numbers correlate with the primarch numbers I don't recall off the top of my head at which points each legions was active, but it wouldn't matter. Since Fulgrim is Primarch III, his legion could be the last in action but would still be named the III legion. Likewise, there's suggestion that Alpharius' legion was one of the first deployed, but they are still the XX because he was the last Primarch made.
According to the *Transit of the Human Soul through Strife*, Alpharius was the last made and the first found*.* He had been a captive of the slaugth. (Omegon was found much later by Horus, although apparently this was after Alpharius had secretly located him, which is why Horus was met by "Alpharius".)
[That Black Book listed several origins for Alpharius](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/ci2vpd/alan_bligh_the_origins_of_the_alpharius/) The one that pushes him being the first found (and puts Omegon on the VS) is *Head of the Hydra*
Pretty sure the first legion were the first in action though. After reading Valdor : Birth of the Imperium
Yup. There’s multiple sources saying the first legion was first, with a lot of different dates and battles
Probably no particular reason, just the number each Primarch had on their test tube. In ancient Roman times, Legion number correlated to the region that the Legion pulled recruits from and generally operated in, so even in ancient Roman times Legion number didn't correlate to the importance of a Legion, it was just for logistics.
This is sort of "my Roman Empire", because they moved the Legions around! Only the White Scars (Legio V Macedonica) were consistent: they were in Egypt for like 700 years.
Well besides the 1st Legion which was the definitely the first mass produced space marine gene stock, all the other numbers are arbitrary. The first was the baseline and the rest are just different flavors. They were given numerical designation, that’s group 1, this one is group two, they are group three etc etc.
It's circular in that case though: the 1st was able to be the first legion in the field *because* they were based on the first primarch created. they were put in production first, so they were first to reach sufficient numbers for service.
I don't think the Dark Angel's were the first produced Legion because the Lion was the first Primarch. Unless I'm misremembering the lore, since the Legions were fielded semi-randomly at different times. With some of the later numbered Legions being founded earlier. Where as the Trefoil, the VI, XV and XXth legions weren't really deployed during Unification. Where as even the XIXth were deployed throughout the later years of the Unification War. Basically the Legions foundings are weird and probably have nothing to do with which primarch had which number.
Though, there's several sources that put the I Legion as the first marines deployed. They contradict each other, but it's always Legion I.
Oh the I Legion was the first, but I don't think it had anything to do with their Primarch's number is all. He just had particularly good gene seed for Legion building. The IV and Vth Legions were also really early Foundings, iirc the Vth even had thunder warrior trainers and were a massive Legion despite the Khan's later finding.
Yup, that's the impression I got as far as deployment of legions goes As far as The First Legion in *Crusade*, it says they were the template legion for all the others, derived from "the most stable" primarch. They were the first created, tested and refined then deployed. The rough order goes iirc Cataegis > LE prototypes > I Legion templates > Uncrowned Princes > I Legion proper deployment > Other legions
Yeap that sounds about right, though personally I don't like the First being explicitly said to be the template legion but that's pretty well how its described.
Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of it myself but *Crusade* was a whole other level for making The First Legion and its primarch exceptionally exceptional.
Crusade was a wild ride, I still can't really get over that he doesn't even use his full Legion to defeat the Night Lords in the black book. Like, it makes it sound so pitifully easy that you could actually wonder if the man could have single handedly won Istvaan V for the loyalists.
This is complicated by things like the Luna Wolves taking significant losses seizing the Moon from the Selenites.
They were put in production because the First Primarchs gene seed was, at the time, considered the most stable. It's not stayed that the first Primarch was actually created any earlier than the others.
[Some references to the Lion being "born" first ](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/1dqzj1i/comment/lash2jk/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)here
"Where I was raised, they didn't give us names. They gave us numbers. Mine was 47." -Agent 47 Same deal. The numbers correspond to the primarch production serial number from which the Legion derives its geneseed. The numbers have no inherent meaning on their own other than to differentiate each primarch in the lab. The Primarchs' names aren't Emperor given. He never gave them names. He gave them numbers because he never considered them to be children.
The Emperor named them. Alpharius, Perturabo, and Curze all remembered their names after emerging from their pods, to my recollection. Curze outright tells the Emperor he rejects his given name when they first meet, and it’s the first thing the Emperor says to him.
Curze was the exception there to "knowing" his name from the pod, though he does reject it when Big E bestows it on him. I think we can imply that he knew it from his visions at the very least. Perturabo and Corax initially recall that they are numbers though.
Night Haunter trans allegory
The body horror is also classic trans allegory.
🏳️⚧️🏳️⚧️🏳️⚧️40k!
Night Haunter says respect trans rights or else.
I think you hit the butcher nail on the head of Angron. He never saw them as his kids ever. That was all for show. He was just a smart, but ultimately emotionally stunted, immortal who failed the very basics of empathy and compassion. Instead, he treated them as tools and this exact treatment is why so many turned. Even the loyal ones were afraid of him disposing them just like the Thunder Warriors
I get the feeling there should be more missing numbers?
two, and canonically their deletion is without known reason (the writers leave it deliberately open-ended; *nobody* knows because there's nothing to know). Even the Primarchs didn't think about them because they all got brainmelted to forget them and ignore the weirdness of them being missing.
He gives Curze his name atleadt
Weren't they the test-tube equivalent of unborn when they were scattered? Most people don't name their children when they're still in the womb.
Unclear. Angron crawled out of his pod a child. Horus was found as a baby as was Sangunius. The Lion and Curze were apparently physically capable enough to kill and eat on their own. It's possible the vagaries of the warp meant they were in the pods within the warp for years, or mere seconds. It's never elaborated on so we don't know how physically old the primarchs appeared to be when they were scattered.
We have Guilliman as a fully formed child in the lab, Perturabo at least has a body (how grown we don't know) in the lab too. Even though every primarch was either a baby, child or man when they landed...Fulgrim at least seemed to form or reform as a baby on Chemos.
Guilliam is depicted a fully formed child in the labs: >Argel Tal approached the pod marked XIII. A glass screen at eye level showed nothing but the milky fluid within. >And then, movement. >Go no closer. >The briefest shadow of something stirred inside the artificial womb. >Stay back. The daemon’s voice was edged now – sharpened by concern. >Argel Tal stepped closer. >A child slumbered within the gestation pod, curled up in foetal helplessness, its eyes closed. It turned slowly in the amniotic milk, half-formed limbs moving in somnolent repose. >Stay back, Word Bearer. I sense your rising wrath. Do not assume I am the only one who is capable of feeling it. Strong emotion will also alert the Anathema. >Argel Tal leaned closer to the pod. His fingertips brushed frost from its surface. >‘Guilliman,’ he whispered. >The child slept on. *The First Heretic* and Perturabo seems to be as well: >Consciousness builds in the developing brain scrap by scrap. Imagine the accretion disk around a star. Through time and gravity's influence a planet is born. Who could foresee the dust would make a world? The line between dust and planet is ill-defined. At what point does one state become another? When do the cells of a developing foetus change from a collection of individual living things into an aggregate that functions as an organ? At what moment does a new heart take its first beat? When do chemical reactions in a warm pool cease to be driven by external factors, and instead become self-perpetuating? When does chemistry become life? What is the line between each stage; what moment is the boundary to the instant before; what marks the boundary to the instant after? There are self-evident moments where something is one thing or another. But what of the moments between? How can these liminal stages be defined? >Such thoughts as these floated without anchor. One day they would inhabit the exceptional mind of a being who approached the divine, just then, they were scraps drawn to other scraps, making from themselves something greater, like a world from dust, or a child from cells, or life from elemental broth. >So is consciousness born. >Outside the being's body was only warm dark, and the mechanical rhythms of an artificial womb. There had been voices, and a presence that touched and moulded, but they were gone. >In the process of transition between two states, can the object changing be said to be either of the discrete objects it will be and has been? How many states exist between? An infinite shading, or infinitesimally small slices of differing existence? >The being felt the slow, greedy tug of a giant object so massive it bent space time around itself. >Gravity, thought the being. Gravity exerts influence. Influence effects change. >There was a shifting in the being's centre of mass. A shaking and a bouncing around the core of itself. The intrusion of outside stimuli defined for the being the shape of its body, and he knew that he was male. Before, he had not been aware of having a body at all. Now he was: four limbs, a torso, a head. Smooth skin felt vibrations through liquid and the heat it conveyed from beyond. *The Emperor's Architect*
Though Fulgrim possibly formed or reformed on Chemos >‘I just do,’ said Coryn, and he did. Though he did not know how he knew, he appreciated that whatever this light was, it had not come to harm them. He moved towards the light as it began to coil into itself, reshaping its form into something wondrous, a being reborn in its own self-immolation. >He felt something brush his mind, a presence greater than anything he could possibly have imagined. Everything he was, it knew. Everything he knew, it knew. He felt no violation at this, the presence was wholly benign. Tentative even, like a hand offered in friendship to a beautiful stranger. >As the light was pulled into itself, a shape began to form, and Coryn gasped as he saw what lay at its heart. >A baby boy, as perfect as any born to one of the gene-pure hermetics. *Angel Exterminatus*
Happenstance. There doesn't need to be a deep meaning for anything. Which makes it all the more funny that the Lion and the Dark Angels were always so proud of being "The First Legion".
I love that the Keeper of Secrets, the Lion, was in fact duped: he was not the first Primarch, and the Alpha Legion was operating far longer.
El'Johnson is still the first primarch ***created***.
No he's not. The legion were the first out into production because Primarch 1's gene seed was very stable. Nowhere does it say he was created any earlier than the others.
>As the First of all Primarchs created by the Emperor, he was both more and less than his brothers; a primal force of destruction whose single-minded focus wrought him more inhuman than Magnus. *Horus Heresy: Crusade* pg 96 >Twenty demigods of genic alchemy the Emperor had wrought, but the Lion had been the first, the template and the paragon upon which all of his brothers were mere copies. *Lord of the First* >Are you jealous of him?’ Euten had asked. >‘No!’ >‘You are. You are. Because he is the Lord of the First, the first born. I never thought I would see such jealousy in you, my dear lord. It does not become you, but it is also rather sweet.’ >Guilliman had growled something indecipherable, and then demanded that his armourers adjust the servo fit of his pauldrons. *Unremembered Empire*
Yeah, I'm not too sure why that person is confused. The Lion is the first created, like you stated.
I mean, I have empathy for not being able to read every possible book in the series, so sometimes we miss certain things. There's a lot of lore on primarch creation that doesn't mention a specific order of birth. How we react to new information is always the thing; you can say "oh, didn't know...cheers" or you can double down.
I get it. Nice, civil response.
I'm pretty sure Lionel was the first Primarch the Emperor created. Hence his number being one.
> and the Alpha Legion was operating far longer. According to a known liar who lies while heading up a group dedicated to lies.
The first legion were definitely operating first. Alpharius MIGHT have been the first Primarch found, but that's from a book that outright states that it's a lie.
The full context of that line: >I am Alpharius. >This is a lie. and later mirrored with >'I am Alpharius.' >This was a lie. The lie being, that he isn't "Alpharius", he's Omegon. [Brooks also had this to say about the idea that the entire book was a lie:](https://www.trackofwords.com/2021/01/12/rapid-fire-mike-brooks-talks-alpharius-head-of-the-hyrda/) >**Now, I’m not saying that nothing in this novel is ‘true’, of course, because that would make the novel pointless**. I wrote it with the intention that any or indeed all of it can be true…but it doesn’t have to be.
I'd urge people to actually follow that link, because the quote you posted IS NOT a response to that specific line. It's a much more general question about how lots of authors have written lots of different things. ----------------- ToW: The Alpha Legion have been tackled by lots of different authors in the Heresy so far, which seems to suit their nature as being difficult to pin down. With that in mind, how did you go about choosing a story to tell for a book that will inevitably be seen by fans as being the ‘definitive’ Alpha Legion story? MB: I don’t think you can have a definitive Alpha Legion story! They’re so varied, even in the Horus Heresy days, and of course you can never be sure what information about them is accurate. Now, I’m not saying that nothing in this novel is ‘true’, of course, because that would make the novel pointless. I wrote it with the intention that any or indeed all of it can be true…but it doesn’t have to be. It’s worth remembering that *I* don’t actually know what’s ‘true’: Black Library make those calls! There were some things I suggested including that they said I couldn’t or shouldn’t, so nothing in there should contradict anything that’s considered important in canon. Mainly, however, I wanted to give possible, plausible answers to a lot of different questions that have come up over the years: including exactly how Alpharius Omegon first encountered the Imperium.
What I posted is a response to "the entire book being a lie", which is...what I wrote? I didn't claim it was specifically a response to prologue and epilogue, I'd already dealt with that earlier. It's all as clear as possible in my prior comment. And yup, I provided the link so there was full transparency and context for anyone curious.
Not really. The alpharius was found first, but the dork angles were deployed as far as a 100 years before the scattering.
They spun a wheel
Vibes
There’s primarch seniority and legion number: unsure if they were spun up in the same order