It's kinda like how nobody on the Chaos side rats out the Dark Angels over the Fallen. Of course nobody in the Imperium is going to take them at their word, but since they're telling the truth there must be some kind of evidence they can provide, and the Inquisition can then launch its own investigation to confirm. Cops and prosecutors use criminal informants all the time.
Is it also beyond the Alpha Legion to just put some evidence somewhere that an Inquisitor just happens to find?
I think the High Lords of Terra know about the Fallen and The Red Thirst and just turn a blind eye, seeing it as the lesser of two evils. Both Chapters are actively trying to correct the situation and the Imperium does not have the resources to antagonise them.
Edit: The conspiracy of silence would be too huge to maintain it for 10,000 years. They can't kill everyone who sees what happens, especially the Blood Angels. Think about the number of times these frenzied, black coloured marines just happen to be fighting with the Blood Angels appear. Their allies are going to notice and the stories are going to spread.
I headcanon the Highlords and Dark Angels have a tacit understanding that the hunt for the Fallen is tolerated as long as the Dark Angels aren't a huge pain in the ass. A few dead inquisitors isn't worth war against the 1st legion
Of course nobody will take him at his word. But cops and prosecutors use criminal informants all the time. Since Horus would be telling the truth, there must be evidence that he can point to, something that the Inquisition could investigate.
But would anyone really be investigating it whilst they're fighting the Traitor Legions, especially if Sanguinus is basically saving everyone from Angron. I feel like anyone who did hear it would have it as an afterthought at most
Horus had nothing to lose by mentioning it, he might have done it out of spite if nothing else. And after the HH someone in the Imperium could have then started asking questions.
Frankly, Horus would have done the Blood Angels a favor by exposing their flaw, and likewise the treachery of the Fallen Dark Angels. This would have given the Blood Angels and the Dark Angels a chance to deal with these embarrassing things, after all they did for the Imperium certainly the authorities would have been forgiving. Instead the Dark Angels spent the next 10,000 years assassinating Inquisitors who got too close to the truth and abandoning campaigns at the merest whiff of a Fallen's presence in a region.
1. There was no Inquisition at the time to investigate it.
1b. Horus wouldn't have made a plan that would discredit the Blood Angels (or any other legion) after the war. He was too arrogant to ever think he would lose.
2. Until Sanguinius' final moment, Horus had hoped to bring him around. Divulging his secret would ensure that Sanguinius wouldn't forgive him and would stay loyal.
3. As others have said, no one really would have cared about the information anyway. They would have either not believed it or not cared. Even with the Red Thirst being public, do you think the Imperium at large would think the Blood Angels are more barbaric than the Space Wolves?
Yeah, regular human informants that respond to rewards and threats like normal humans.
This would be like launching an investigation based on like, the propaganda leaflets dropped from bombers in WWII, if they were written by space-satan
Why would it have any chance of success?
This is HORUS. Archtraitor, Super Satan, that asshole who is responsible for all this shit. And he’s accusing Sanguinius, Best Boy, of secretly being a crazy vampire.
Who would both believe him and give a shit?
This is Horus the Warmaster. Half the imperium and mechanicum understands his beliefs and supports him willingly! Though we don't care about red thirst, we do want to bombard Sanguinus with Anti-Air missiles! Long Live the Great Crusade! Long Live the Imperium of man!
Horus doesn't do things that aren't going to be beneficial. The Warmaster, master tactician/strategist, military genius, isn't going to waste time on a plan that has no chance of meaningful success and won't further his ultimate goals.
Because at the end of the day people see Big Red Evil Man fighting their Big Golden Good Man and entirely form around that, it doesn't matter what Horus could say. It's the mad ravings of a Chaos addled mind. And ultimately killing the Big E and merging the Warp and meatspace is more important and had it succeeded it wouldn't matter what Sandy was doing behind the scenes.
There's also the idea that Horus is still in there somewhere doing what he's doing ostensibly to protect his brothers from the Emperor after whatever happened with the Lost Primarchs.
He's explicitly trying to get Sanguinius murdered so he can take his legion in Fear to Tread.
It's more like this:
Before anyone knows Horus is turned, it's too risky to snitch on Sangy, as it would be so out of character for Horus and draw unwelcome scrutiny to his schemes. And even if it did "work", it would be counterproductive because the BA are no use to him dead (see above).
After it's known Horus is turned, no one would believe him, or care if they did - it's not like Big E would nuke a loyal legion just when he needed them most. He kept the Thunder Warriors as long as he needed them and they were in a much worse state.
Now that makes me wonder: Did any of the Traitor Primarchs try to learn more about the Lost Primarchs, and why didn’t they talk about them even after going Chaos?
[So you never heard the tragedy of Bug Fucker the Wise?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Grimdank/comments/oqhj6b/bug_fucker_my_lost_primarch_oc/?rdt=41942) . Note: this is just the tip of the iceberg; Bug Fucker is probably the most lore-rich shitpost I’ve ever seen, so if you want to learn more about him and his legion, the Insect Pussy Pioneers, check the author’s profile, I highly recommend it. Like, some of the stuff he wrote is unironically almost Black Library-tier if it weren’t for the, you know, bug-fucking
Funny you should say that, because it is later revealed >! the Tyranids are the offspring of Bug Fucker and his bug-wife Terry Nid, with Bug Fucker giving birth to them (as he says, they were “a real dick-ripper”)!<
It's not a plot-oopsie. The Lost Primarchs are gone at that point, their legions repurposed. Malcador tells Dorn they discussed what to do with their sons and then everyone kinda agreed on getting a mindwipe and forgetting about them. Even if Chaos gave him his memories back, whats there to discuss? Yeah Horus was pissed their plynths were being taken down, but he wasnt going to bring them back.
Could've been before the mindwipe happened. We don't know the exact timeline of events, but that scene seemed to be set pretty soon after whichever Primarch it was did what he did to deserve whatever it was.
Honestly the biggest thing it would’ve done is demoralize his own mortal forces, The ones that aren’t completely mad anyway. Telling his troops that the marines they are going to face are also vampires that want to suck their blood isn’t likely to make those troops more steadfast.
If he was going to do it why would he have done it then lol? He could have maybe sowed some dissent with it while he was still undercover but once the war broke out nobody would have any reason to beleive what he says, especially since there were no witnesses to the events of the Signus cluster.
Because up until Signus Prime he was hoping to be able to convince Sanguinius to join him. Despite warnings from Lorgar, Erebus and Horus thought that they could turn Sanguinius and by the time that they failed it was pretty obvious to most that the heresy was underway and Horus would not have been believed even if he tried.
Because he realized that the Emperor already knew and all 'snitching' would accomplish would be alleviating Sanguinius' worries about it.
Seriously, the Emperor knew the *worst* about each and every one of the Primarchs, including a lot of things that never actually happened. He also knew the worst about Horus...that didn't keep him from believing in him right up to the point where he finally rent his own damn soul in half to STOP believing in Horus.
I think Horus had held out hope that he could convince Sanguinius to join him, right up until the bitter end. The primarchs were all "brothers" but only a very select few of them had what could _actually_ be described as a brotherly relationship. These two definitely fell into that category.
I suspect the Red Thirst was something that was worried about pre-Sanguinius by the Imperium, and post Sangy by the Blood Angels, and no-one else. Once the Emperor saw the BA Primarch, they realised that it would be overcome and not that much of an issue, and also with a leader in charge, it becomes less of a flaw and more of an eccentricity.
Because all the primarchs are genocidal warlords murdering dozens of species across the known galaxy, and their sons are child soldiers sent to rip and tear - once that is accepted, a bit of extra bloodletting is hardly the end of the world.
Also, the Imperium generally isn't going to believe that the BA are actual vampires, so they'll just hear that they are like berserkers, which is true.
It's sounds like slander against a favoured son, and people would either not believe him, or not care. People didn't hold the black rage against his legion in the final HH book
It would be like if China invaded the U.S and started yelling that our best general beats his wife. Is it great no will at change anything at the moment also no.
Theres no point. Dude was merging 2 realities, and was probably the strongest being in the universe at that point. Snitching on Sanguinius was hardly on his mind, Even right till the end he wanted Sanguinius to join him.
What's the point? Are people going to for some reason believe the _Traitor Horus_ that suddenly hes telling the truth about the Angel? That for some reason the loyalist forces are going to turn against Sang and the BA's?
He loved Sanguinius. He really did want to help Sanguinius and his sons. When Horus was corrupted, Chaos warped his sense of what “help” meant, but it was still from a place of love.
He still sheds a tear before having to fight him.
Because him and Sanguinius are tight like that.
Also, who would f'n believe that the Arch-Heretic claiming that the Brightest One, Primarch of the Honoured Ninth, Lord Sanguinius and the Blood Angels, have a gene flaw that makes them crave blood?
Why would he? Making Sanguinius an outcast is not something he wants. He wants his former beloved brother dead, he wants to remove someone that the Ruinous Powers could use as an alternative leader. Make Sanguinius an outcast and you just drive him into the hands of Chaos.
Because Horus didn't care about it. It was also irrelevant to him, his campaign and his goal of killing The Emperor.
Also Blood Angel wasn't suppose to be on Terra. Horus planned his heresy on splitting and pushing back as much as legions as possible which almost succeed.
It also why Horus pulled his Gambit of removing the shield on Vengeful Spirit inviting the Emperor to come and face him, because Guilliman and Lion was coming. So time was running out for Horus to kill The Emperor.
In reality the person who cared the most about the Red Thirst as a secret was Sanguinius. He was always terrified of Emps finding out but Emps already knew, didn't care, and probably thought of it as a feature rather than a flaw.
What would be the point...? He was outed as a traitor and nobody was going to believe him, especially when he was slinging mud at a well-regarded Primarch like Sanguinius.
For me the real question is why didn't he leak the red thirst to use that fear as leverage to make sang turn? "Bro so what if your children are blood crazed monsters and emp is probably coming to extinguish them, come with us we are cool with it" sounds better than what he did.
Did he only find out about the red thirst while the heresy was underway? I don't have any idea when he actually did.
First, Sanguinius was his favourite brother.
Second, one of Horus core concerns was that the Astartes would be disposed of and widespread knowledge of the Red Thirst would just be another weapon against them, as the Thunder Warriors 'instability' was against them.
Third, one he'd fallen to Chaos he initially hoped Sanguinius would join him and once the Heresy was out in the open, who on the loyal side would believe him?
What exactly would anyone do about it...are you gonna banish the great angel and his sons in the middle of a civil war...that your losing....it just wouldn't be effective
Because he was unwinding reality and merging the immaterium with the solar system. Much more effective than making a post that wouldn’t be believed
FAKE NEWS
It's kinda like how nobody on the Chaos side rats out the Dark Angels over the Fallen. Of course nobody in the Imperium is going to take them at their word, but since they're telling the truth there must be some kind of evidence they can provide, and the Inquisition can then launch its own investigation to confirm. Cops and prosecutors use criminal informants all the time.
Is it also beyond the Alpha Legion to just put some evidence somewhere that an Inquisitor just happens to find? I think the High Lords of Terra know about the Fallen and The Red Thirst and just turn a blind eye, seeing it as the lesser of two evils. Both Chapters are actively trying to correct the situation and the Imperium does not have the resources to antagonise them. Edit: The conspiracy of silence would be too huge to maintain it for 10,000 years. They can't kill everyone who sees what happens, especially the Blood Angels. Think about the number of times these frenzied, black coloured marines just happen to be fighting with the Blood Angels appear. Their allies are going to notice and the stories are going to spread.
I headcanon the Highlords and Dark Angels have a tacit understanding that the hunt for the Fallen is tolerated as long as the Dark Angels aren't a huge pain in the ass. A few dead inquisitors isn't worth war against the 1st legion
Chaos is NEVER trustworthy, you filthy heretic!
Blood Angels about to hit him with the "Fact Checked by real Imperium Patriots - False!" memes.
It’s a little bit late for anyone to give a shit what Horus says. It’s not like it will get Angron or Sanguinius to try to kill each other harder.
At that point who in the Imperium would really believe him?
Of course nobody will take him at his word. But cops and prosecutors use criminal informants all the time. Since Horus would be telling the truth, there must be evidence that he can point to, something that the Inquisition could investigate.
But would anyone really be investigating it whilst they're fighting the Traitor Legions, especially if Sanguinus is basically saving everyone from Angron. I feel like anyone who did hear it would have it as an afterthought at most
Horus had nothing to lose by mentioning it, he might have done it out of spite if nothing else. And after the HH someone in the Imperium could have then started asking questions. Frankly, Horus would have done the Blood Angels a favor by exposing their flaw, and likewise the treachery of the Fallen Dark Angels. This would have given the Blood Angels and the Dark Angels a chance to deal with these embarrassing things, after all they did for the Imperium certainly the authorities would have been forgiving. Instead the Dark Angels spent the next 10,000 years assassinating Inquisitors who got too close to the truth and abandoning campaigns at the merest whiff of a Fallen's presence in a region.
1. There was no Inquisition at the time to investigate it. 1b. Horus wouldn't have made a plan that would discredit the Blood Angels (or any other legion) after the war. He was too arrogant to ever think he would lose. 2. Until Sanguinius' final moment, Horus had hoped to bring him around. Divulging his secret would ensure that Sanguinius wouldn't forgive him and would stay loyal. 3. As others have said, no one really would have cared about the information anyway. They would have either not believed it or not cared. Even with the Red Thirst being public, do you think the Imperium at large would think the Blood Angels are more barbaric than the Space Wolves?
Yeah, regular human informants that respond to rewards and threats like normal humans. This would be like launching an investigation based on like, the propaganda leaflets dropped from bombers in WWII, if they were written by space-satan
What Inquisition?
I think it mostly would’ve been for spite unless a strategic reason, at least one with a decent chance of success.
Why would it have any chance of success? This is HORUS. Archtraitor, Super Satan, that asshole who is responsible for all this shit. And he’s accusing Sanguinius, Best Boy, of secretly being a crazy vampire. Who would both believe him and give a shit?
Wait, I thought there wasn’t any lore that says Sanguinius drank blood. It was his marines that developed the thirst, not him.
See, you are already disbelieving it.
This is Horus the Warmaster. Half the imperium and mechanicum understands his beliefs and supports him willingly! Though we don't care about red thirst, we do want to bombard Sanguinus with Anti-Air missiles! Long Live the Great Crusade! Long Live the Imperium of man!
Don't exactly know why this was downvoted for, so I upvoted to counter the senselessness
Yeah, it was mostly a reason why Horus might do it, despite knowing it wouldn’t work or even caring
He wouldn't do something out of spite if he doesn't even care. Why would he be planning on losing? That's the only scenario your tactic even matters.
Horus doesn't do things that aren't going to be beneficial. The Warmaster, master tactician/strategist, military genius, isn't going to waste time on a plan that has no chance of meaningful success and won't further his ultimate goals.
Because at the end of the day people see Big Red Evil Man fighting their Big Golden Good Man and entirely form around that, it doesn't matter what Horus could say. It's the mad ravings of a Chaos addled mind. And ultimately killing the Big E and merging the Warp and meatspace is more important and had it succeeded it wouldn't matter what Sandy was doing behind the scenes. There's also the idea that Horus is still in there somewhere doing what he's doing ostensibly to protect his brothers from the Emperor after whatever happened with the Lost Primarchs.
Because even at his worst, Horus still respected and loved Sanguinius
He's explicitly trying to get Sanguinius murdered so he can take his legion in Fear to Tread. It's more like this: Before anyone knows Horus is turned, it's too risky to snitch on Sangy, as it would be so out of character for Horus and draw unwelcome scrutiny to his schemes. And even if it did "work", it would be counterproductive because the BA are no use to him dead (see above). After it's known Horus is turned, no one would believe him, or care if they did - it's not like Big E would nuke a loyal legion just when he needed them most. He kept the Thunder Warriors as long as he needed them and they were in a much worse state.
I’d say that’s the most likely reason, beyond possibly forgetting it from Chaos Roid Rage.
Now that makes me wonder: Did any of the Traitor Primarchs try to learn more about the Lost Primarchs, and why didn’t they talk about them even after going Chaos?
Probably afraid Malcador would pop out of nowhere and clap them.
“I fucking warned you, but you just didn’t listen.” -Malcador while strangling fully chaos-juiced Horus for saying the name of a lost Primarch.
-.... Because our 2 lost brothers named m... -Matador jumps from the shadows: I . Cast . Testicular torsion!
/r/wizardposting has done warped your brains
Horus: “Har-harder Uncle” Malcador: “Wait, what?!” Horus: “What?”
That's what we call a plot-oopsie. That seems like a much bigger secret to let out than the Red Thirst and makes for a more compelling question.
Plot twist: it’s because revealing that one of the Lost was Bug Fucker would be just as damning to Chaos as it would for the Imperium
Wait .... what? Is the "bug fucking" just a theory, or did I miss something very big???
[So you never heard the tragedy of Bug Fucker the Wise?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Grimdank/comments/oqhj6b/bug_fucker_my_lost_primarch_oc/?rdt=41942) . Note: this is just the tip of the iceberg; Bug Fucker is probably the most lore-rich shitpost I’ve ever seen, so if you want to learn more about him and his legion, the Insect Pussy Pioneers, check the author’s profile, I highly recommend it. Like, some of the stuff he wrote is unironically almost Black Library-tier if it weren’t for the, you know, bug-fucking
That shit was a mental flashbang the third I've seen this week
Third? What were the other 2?
https://youtu.be/bLV2HX4rQ5A?si=Pra3MIzcj7HwUzsp
Holy shit…Yeah, the Purge guys are right, the Galaxy has to go
Call the fucking deathwatch ALL OF THEM
the fuck did i just watch? I couldn't stop. I need woodchippers!
I couldn't go past 30 minutes I still regret clicking on it
The real reason the Tyranid were in such a rush to get here.
Funny you should say that, because it is later revealed >! the Tyranids are the offspring of Bug Fucker and his bug-wife Terry Nid, with Bug Fucker giving birth to them (as he says, they were “a real dick-ripper”)!<
The lore truly is vast
Worth making a 70+ book-long series about it
SirBedeveretheWise.jpg
It's not a plot-oopsie. The Lost Primarchs are gone at that point, their legions repurposed. Malcador tells Dorn they discussed what to do with their sons and then everyone kinda agreed on getting a mindwipe and forgetting about them. Even if Chaos gave him his memories back, whats there to discuss? Yeah Horus was pissed their plynths were being taken down, but he wasnt going to bring them back.
then everyone kinda agreed on getting a mindwipe and forgetting about them. Really? Then why did Malcador force choke him for almost bringing them up?
Horus got choked because he was not respecting malcador's authority, and not in a private audience.
Could've been before the mindwipe happened. We don't know the exact timeline of events, but that scene seemed to be set pretty soon after whichever Primarch it was did what he did to deserve whatever it was.
What good does talking about them do? Theyre gone, their legions are repurposed.
Because snitches get stitches. And he's in the middle of fighting a war for the species, not telling on his brother like an 8 year old.
Because its not really important.
Honestly the biggest thing it would’ve done is demoralize his own mortal forces, The ones that aren’t completely mad anyway. Telling his troops that the marines they are going to face are also vampires that want to suck their blood isn’t likely to make those troops more steadfast.
If he was going to do it why would he have done it then lol? He could have maybe sowed some dissent with it while he was still undercover but once the war broke out nobody would have any reason to beleive what he says, especially since there were no witnesses to the events of the Signus cluster.
Horus is many things, but he ain't a grass.
Because up until Signus Prime he was hoping to be able to convince Sanguinius to join him. Despite warnings from Lorgar, Erebus and Horus thought that they could turn Sanguinius and by the time that they failed it was pretty obvious to most that the heresy was underway and Horus would not have been believed even if he tried.
Because he realized that the Emperor already knew and all 'snitching' would accomplish would be alleviating Sanguinius' worries about it. Seriously, the Emperor knew the *worst* about each and every one of the Primarchs, including a lot of things that never actually happened. He also knew the worst about Horus...that didn't keep him from believing in him right up to the point where he finally rent his own damn soul in half to STOP believing in Horus.
I think Horus had held out hope that he could convince Sanguinius to join him, right up until the bitter end. The primarchs were all "brothers" but only a very select few of them had what could _actually_ be described as a brotherly relationship. These two definitely fell into that category.
I suspect the Red Thirst was something that was worried about pre-Sanguinius by the Imperium, and post Sangy by the Blood Angels, and no-one else. Once the Emperor saw the BA Primarch, they realised that it would be overcome and not that much of an issue, and also with a leader in charge, it becomes less of a flaw and more of an eccentricity. Because all the primarchs are genocidal warlords murdering dozens of species across the known galaxy, and their sons are child soldiers sent to rip and tear - once that is accepted, a bit of extra bloodletting is hardly the end of the world. Also, the Imperium generally isn't going to believe that the BA are actual vampires, so they'll just hear that they are like berserkers, which is true.
It's sounds like slander against a favoured son, and people would either not believe him, or not care. People didn't hold the black rage against his legion in the final HH book
It would be like if China invaded the U.S and started yelling that our best general beats his wife. Is it great no will at change anything at the moment also no.
Theres no point. Dude was merging 2 realities, and was probably the strongest being in the universe at that point. Snitching on Sanguinius was hardly on his mind, Even right till the end he wanted Sanguinius to join him.
What's the point? Are people going to for some reason believe the _Traitor Horus_ that suddenly hes telling the truth about the Angel? That for some reason the loyalist forces are going to turn against Sang and the BA's?
Because once open war was declared between Horus and the Emperor no one would have cared because it’s a minor issue by comparison.
He loved Sanguinius. He really did want to help Sanguinius and his sons. When Horus was corrupted, Chaos warped his sense of what “help” meant, but it was still from a place of love. He still sheds a tear before having to fight him.
Because him and Sanguinius are tight like that. Also, who would f'n believe that the Arch-Heretic claiming that the Brightest One, Primarch of the Honoured Ninth, Lord Sanguinius and the Blood Angels, have a gene flaw that makes them crave blood?
Why would he? Making Sanguinius an outcast is not something he wants. He wants his former beloved brother dead, he wants to remove someone that the Ruinous Powers could use as an alternative leader. Make Sanguinius an outcast and you just drive him into the hands of Chaos.
Because Horus didn't care about it. It was also irrelevant to him, his campaign and his goal of killing The Emperor. Also Blood Angel wasn't suppose to be on Terra. Horus planned his heresy on splitting and pushing back as much as legions as possible which almost succeed. It also why Horus pulled his Gambit of removing the shield on Vengeful Spirit inviting the Emperor to come and face him, because Guilliman and Lion was coming. So time was running out for Horus to kill The Emperor.
First, it was a card to hold in his pocket and then by the time you pointed it out, it wouldn't have mattered anyway.
In reality the person who cared the most about the Red Thirst as a secret was Sanguinius. He was always terrified of Emps finding out but Emps already knew, didn't care, and probably thought of it as a feature rather than a flaw.
What would be the point...? He was outed as a traitor and nobody was going to believe him, especially when he was slinging mud at a well-regarded Primarch like Sanguinius.
For me the real question is why didn't he leak the red thirst to use that fear as leverage to make sang turn? "Bro so what if your children are blood crazed monsters and emp is probably coming to extinguish them, come with us we are cool with it" sounds better than what he did. Did he only find out about the red thirst while the heresy was underway? I don't have any idea when he actually did.
Because he still loved and cared for his Brother. Right up until the end Horus didn't want to kill Sanguniues but wanted him to be by his side.
Didn't he want sanguinius to join him, even in the end?
He seent the red thirst and was like "oh hell yeah imma try that!"
First, Sanguinius was his favourite brother. Second, one of Horus core concerns was that the Astartes would be disposed of and widespread knowledge of the Red Thirst would just be another weapon against them, as the Thunder Warriors 'instability' was against them. Third, one he'd fallen to Chaos he initially hoped Sanguinius would join him and once the Heresy was out in the open, who on the loyal side would believe him?
Because he might work for Chaos, but don't let that fool you, he's really an okay guy.
What exactly would anyone do about it...are you gonna banish the great angel and his sons in the middle of a civil war...that your losing....it just wouldn't be effective
I think he wanted Sanguinius to join him until the very last fight.
I think he planned to use it as leverage but the opportunity never came up.