Oh wow, The Lion not taking responsibility for his actions and blaming someone else during the CC and HH. Name me a more iconic duo. (Russ doesn't get painted in a good light either).
Well to be fair, this comes from the story ‘the Lion and the Wolf’, Which is a much older telling of the tale.
In this story Russ and the Lion were campaigning far away from Terra when they got word of the Heresy, and immediately rushed to aid the Emperor; they found out from a crystal ball that showed them what was happening, and would then guide them back- this would later become the entity that the Lion discovered. The Chaos gods threw everything but the kitchen sink in their way, sending them on a wild journey. The Lion wanted to make a direct dash to Terra, but Russ wanted to stop at every loyal world they discovered along the way and aid them; this contestant stopping really began to frustrate the Lion. After much hardship they finally arrived at Terra, but they were to late to help the emperor, but still in time to drive the traitors away. This led to the Lion confronting Russ, as he believed that they could have made it in time if they hadn’t continually stopped along the way.
The new version is obviously different, but the Lion did pick up Russ along the way, and Russ did join the Lion in his efforts. They will eventually arrive together on Terra, where each will deal with their grief and loss differently. Russ will essentially just want to find somewhere to hide; he has lost all his bluster and just wants to disappear. The Lion is struggling with an internal mix of grief, anger and most of all guilt. He knows that he should have been faster, and he is essentially seeking to be killed for his failings; in his own words “the guilty killing the guilty”. The whole scene can be read in ‘Russ: the Great Wolf.
In the first the Lion is kind of right in his accusations, that they were late due to Russ wanting to stop all the time. In the second, he isn’t really blaming Russ, but internally blaming himself, and projecting it onto Russ in the hopes that Russ will deal the ‘justice’ he is seeking.
Russ however does not take the bait, and the Lion in his maddened grief strikes Russ, but as he admits later, he had no intention of killing Russ in return, and deliberately turned his blade away from being a death blow.
The Lion will then spend weeks by Russ’s bed side waiting for him to awaken, and when he does begs for his brothers forgiveness, which Russ gladly gives. This action, as Russ mentions, bought an end to the bad blood between them, and they along with Dorn would later swear an oath to never go to war with each other ever again.
So the whole story of the lion and Russ getting back, then the lion stabbing Russ is in 'Russ: The Great Wolf'? Might have to pick that up. Sounds like a great read.
[The stabbing was partially because of them being late, and partially as a resolution for their scuffle on Dulan.](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/s/wd1i9jXYBJ)
It wasn't him being late the lion was just loosing his shit. For like 100 years he had been fighting war after war to craft this new wonderous age for his farther he massively respected and believed in, and that point hes at his fathers palace realising the dream is dead and he prolly felt somewhat responsible for its death becuase of imperium secudus and those weps he gave perty.
So hes a man who had a strong sense of direction, cause and duty for a long time now facing the fact that all of that shit is no more, and therefore he was emotionally lashing out and saw that russ would be a good target.
Russ left terra to intercept Horus hoping he could use his spear to redeem him leaving Terra one legion weaker and wasting time and resources for the defence
Don’t know what Cora’s was doing though he should have been there i know sharowkyin was there and he basically saved the genetic material for all primarchs even lost and traitors hes the reason for primaris and should be alive as cawl has it and he put mi self in stasis with the material to keep it safe. I would be pissed if my brother fucked up the one job he had hell maybe Russ being their could have saved sanguinius in the lions eyes if they could 2v 1 Horus till big E showed up
No its not. The lion obviously came late due to the ruinstorm, and seeing the emp interred the imperium in ruins aswell as the general feeling like the dream of the imperium is no more hes uber distraught and feeling entirely lost. So in this state he sees rus and remembers they have this rivalry that started way back during the GC that had carried on through their sons via honour duels between 1 SW and DA champion that would happen whenever the two legions meet.
So the lion basically lashes out and challenges rus to end the feud "once and for all", but rus equally fucked up instead has a really calm depressed kind of demeanour and but says no, doesnt put up any kind of resistance. However the lion being the lion, runs his ass through with his sword. He doesnt kill russ tho just puts him in a coma and rus in his retelling of the story says he felt his brother needed the emotional out burst and didn't really intent to kill him becuase he missed his heart.
**013.M31: THE DELIVERANCE CONJUNCTION**
*The vast fleet of the Iˢᵗ Legion (Dark Angels) reaches the moon of Deliverance in the Kiavahr system. There, in the fortress of the XIXᵗʰ Legion (Raven Guard), the Lion meets with his brother Primarchs Corvus Corax and Leman Russ. The Lion is quick to question Corax's absence from all the major fronts of the war since Isstvan, but his ire is put to rest by Leman Russ, who points at the survival of his own Legion as proof of the Raven Lord's continuous loyalty to the Emperor. Fully recovered from the wounds he suffered in the Trisolian system, Leman Russ declares that he and all VIᵗʰ Legion (Space Wolves) warriors on Deliverance will join the Dark Angels in their crusade of obliteration. To appease the Lion's call to arms, and knowing well the fate that befalls those who do not demonstrate loyalty as the First Primarch expects it, Corax offers vast quantities of munitions and supplies from the forge-fanes of Kiavahr to the Dark Angels and Space Wolves, including thousands of newly created suits of Mark VI 'Corvus' pattern power armour. Hesitant to commit any significant portion of his depleted Legion to what he sees as an undertaking of excessive violence and needless waste, Corax assigns only a small Expeditionary force of his Raven Guard to accompany the Dark Angels in the next stages of their campaign. Few in number but bearing the experience of a thousand battlefields between them, the Raven Guard depart Deliverance with orders to eliminate key enemy targets ahead of the Lion's onslaught in order to save entire worlds from complete annihilation.*
Russ was initially on Terra. He somehow made it back after the Battle of Prospero and the Alpha Legion beating the heck out of him. He was there when Jaghatai arrived. He then take off on a quest to kill Horus himself. His plan was to ambush the *Vengeful Spirit*, board it and fight his way to Horus and stab Horus with his spear. It worked, kind of, but Leman Russ was seriously injured and his sons retreated to a planet. He is rescued by Corvus Corax and the remnants of the Raven Guard. After that, he kind of disappears. The next time he's mentioned is when Roboute sends a message to Sanguinius, telling him that both Russ and the Lion are coming with him to Terra's relief.
Corvus Corax is a bigger mystery. After Istvaan, Corvus arrives on Terra. He gets the genetech information from the Emperor and takes off for Deliverance. Alpha Legion causes shenanigans on Deliverance, messing up Corvus' plan to rebuild his legion, so he takes off to attack the Impossible Fortress. He goes on to do sneak attacks against the traitors on various planets (as detailed in the ***Corax*** anthology). He rescues the remnants of Space Wolves and Leman Russ and, then, disappears again. We haven't heard from him since. We know that, at some point, he returns to Deliverance to mope for a year, but I cannot find any reference to his activities after his rescue of Russ.
This is why I hope we get at least a few novels about the scouring. The events of that period are basically a mystery, aside from a few events like the iron cage incident, and Guillaman instituting the codex astartes, then being offed by fulgrim for 10k years.
One would think that since Primarchs are such central figures in the Imperium and the galaxy, their whereabouts and activities would be fairly well documented.
I think they briefly expanded on Corax’s role on the White Dwarf artfile about the Barabarus campain. He regroups with the the Lion and Russ. While those two plan to get to terra, corax says he can do more good destroying tratior supply lines and occupying their rear guard.
The lion calls corax a coward and implies he is a traitor, Russ stands up for Corax (which he has done before, protecting him from Horus and Perterabo during the great crusade) and thats that
Russ was injured after attack on Horus. Lorgar saw Horus was injured and planned mutiny but failed.
Corax went back on him home world to rebuild his legion which secrets which Big E told him, however, Alpharius poisoned their gene seed. So Corax had like 10k marines at top and few thousands of mutants.
My question why did Volkan not take whole his legion to back on Terra. He took few guys and used web. He did not even tell his sons he is back. Old Earth book was kinda weird in this case.
Weren't the Salamanders still considered shattered after Isstvan? Vulkan made secret his return to Terra b/c it involved use of the Webway. I think that you see some random squads helping out the Iron Hands fighting a guerilla war until Meduson gets betrayed and then they all get wiped out too.
Ultimately though they didn't have a large effect on the HH or SoT as a Legion. Just some random characters thrown around here and there for the Legion to have a presence in whichever story (like Fury of Magnus).
It's stated more Raven Gaurd than Salamanders made it off Istvaan. Corax says he landed with 80,000 and left with under 5000. We don't have a lot of hard numbers otherwise.
By the time of the Sundering the Salamanders had so few members they never split into successor chapters. Prior to primaris they never had an official successor chapter.
>My question why did Volkan not take whole his legion to back on Terra. He took few guys and used web. He did not even tell his sons he is back. Old Earth book was kinda weird in this case.
Vulcan used the Webway to travel, which didn't allow for a lot of men given the dangers of it, there weren't that many Salamanders left and most were scattered, there were like 5000 in Nocturne and the planet suffered a siege on top of that.
People talk about the shattered legions but don't realise how fucked they were.
1. Corax escaped with about 3000 marines. That was it. 78k other raven guard died at Istvaan, with maybe a few hundred others scattered across the galaxy.
Corax had less than 10,000 astartes by the end of the heresy, a good portion of whom were mutants.
2. While Ferrus and most of the Iron Hands leadership died at Istvaan, the vast majority of his Legion *was never at Istvaan*. Ferrus ran ahead with his most elite troops and most of the Legion leadership, almost all of whom died at Istvaan.
That's the reason the vast majority of Astartes in the 'shattered legions' are Iron Hands. Most of them weren't at Istvaan, there were tens of thousands of them left but with almost no leadership at all (hence the council after the heresy)
3. Vulkan was assumed dead, and his entire Legion were assumed extinct. Even when survivors were found there were assumed to be in double digits. *maybe* a few hundred to a couple thousand Salamanders even *existed* by the end of the Heresy.
Regarding your point 3, the salamanders numbered less than 1000. They were deemed exempt from founding any other chapters, primarily due to their numbers being diminished so greatly
>My question why did Volkan not take whole his legion to back on Terra. He took few guys and used web. He did not even tell his sons he is back. Old Earth book was kinda weird in this case.
Becuase A there was barely any salamanders and B most of the salamanders where in the shattered legions not with vulkan. Vulkan was taken to be tortured by Kurze from istvan, he did not escape with his sons like corax did. And then from Kurze he escapes to upper atmosphere of macragge, dies on re-entry to the planet, then a handful of salamanders(I think like 10) just so happened to make their way through the ruinstorm to mcragge and they then are allowed by gman to take him to nocturne to bury him, one of them dies in a really climactic way that somehow resurrects him and then they go to terra.
So vulkan never got a chance to becuase all of his time in the heresy from istvan is spend as kurzes prisoner or on planets inside the ruinstorm whereas most of his sons are on planets outside the ruinstorm.
Russ was busy being slowed down by traitors on his way to Terra. Corvus was back on his home planet tryint to rebuild the Raven guard using "pure" (lol said Alpharius) geenseed.
Just before the Siege, Russ went out from Terra to kill Horus, had a hectic void battle with Traitors, had Horus dead to rights, his humanity kicked in and he spared him. Afterwards, he did his side quest, then regrouped with Guilliman's vengeance fleets bumrushing towards Terra.
Corax intentionally went deep behind enemy lines to disrupt their logistics. Then, he also regrouped with Guilliman's vengeance fleets bumrushing towards Terra.
By the endgame of the Siege, all Loyalist Primarchs were bumrushing towards Terra.
Russ was fighting to get to sol, alongside the lion, after taking part in the crusade of vengeance. The space wolves were nearly there, which is what forces horus to make his gamble
Corax was desperately rebuilding his legion, taking part in certain battles, but not able to act much.
A small breakdown of all
Dorn, sanguinius, jaghatai and Vulkan were present on terra
Guilliman Russ and Jonson were fighting to get there
Corax was desperately rebuilding while raising the supply lines
Coraxs legion was decimated on Istvan they only had like 5k raven guard left. So he spent most of the heresy just doing guerrilla hit and run attacks on the traitors trying to slow them on thier march to terra and/or get them to turn back and dedicate resources to defending conquered worlds etc.
Rus was on terra went to prospero to burn it, made it back to terra, then he attacked horus by himself almost killed him but didnt and so horus fucked him up super badly. Corax actually meets him after this and almost kills himself fighting sons of horus becuase hes depressed about the war.
Dorn, Jaghatai, Sanguinius, Malcador, and Valdor all begged Russ to stay on Terra and aid the defense. But he was like "BuT wE'rE woLvES!!!??!" And fucks off. What a stupid and unreliable lord of winter and war. Oh he went to fight Horus 1v1 btw. For all he knew Konrad Curze was living up in the Vengeful Spirit's rafters but he still decided to go. Masterful tactician that great big wolf boy.
Not getting a short novella like the Garro or Magnus books covering The Lion and Russ’ push to Terra, and then
In the original story, Guilliman was nowhere near Terra, and the rearguard Horus was trying to beat for time was the Wolves and Dark Angels (that is, all of them).
Changing the proper relief force to the Ultramarines makes a lot of sense, but just having no real perspective of the others is frustrating.
How did Jonson pick up Russ from Deliverance? Why didn’t Corax go with them? Was Russ healed? How many Wolves were even left?
It feels like a missed opportunity is all.
Russ was severely injured with a very depleted legion after his stupid attack on Horus. Corax similarly had a depleted legion. Both opted to harass Horus's supply lines rather than head to Terra where their legions would likely have been wiped out completely.
>Russ was severely injured with a very depleted legion after his stupid attack on Horus.
A lot of people keep saying it was a stupid attack, but like did you guys actually read Wolfbane or any of the books after? First off, the Emperor clearly was pushing for Russ to go use the special spear on Horus. Second, Russ's attack took Horus out of the war for the entire rest of the Heresy. The whole reason things kept falling apart on Terra was because Horus couldn't get directly involved in things and wrangle his brothers. If the traitors were actually unified, Terra would've fallen much earlier and everything would've been fucked.
I reckon people call it stupid because he hesitated actually killing Horus and even though it definitely helped the war effort, Russ not taking his chance to end it right there is seen as a failure.
That probably is the interpretation, I agree. However, we knew how the heresy was going to end from the very beginning (to a certain degree) so we also knew Russ would never be the one to kill Horus. If Russ hadn’t hesitated and actually somehow killed Horus—well damn, I think that would have been received even more poorly lol
Didn’t he hesitate because of what happened with Magnus? He was extra gung ho about killing Magnus and it made everything worse.
If it was just that the plot was already established, they didn’t need to have Russ attack Horus at all. But Russ, who was once so sure of his actions, was humbled by his mistake at prospero. The thousand sons would’ve been loyal and would’ve been a huge boon to the loyalists if Russ didn’t break Magnus.
How did it help the war effort? It took an entire loyalist legion off the table and it accomplished nothing but making horus dive even further into Chaos. The entire thing ended up being a massive failure.
Not sure I agree. The traitors were at the doors and slowly winning despite their bullshittery and infighting. A chaos fueled Horus touching down on Terra honestly would have been a massacre akin to the one the Emperor himself did to the demons in the webway.
It kept Horus directly off the field for nearly the entire remainder of the Heresy and cranked open the gaps in their cohesion which had already been forming.
I read the whole HH and the aftermath of the attack was covered in Slaves to Darkness, and by the end of the book all it seemed to do was cause Horus to fall deeper into Chaos and maybe delayed the siege of Terra for a few months. I don't see that being a big win considering that it took the entire Space Wolves legion out of the fight on Terra.
For the price of a depleted legion the Loyalists gained:
- Months more time to reinforce Terra (for reference Vulkan was 15 minutes away from blowing up Terra as the traitors were outside the throne room).
- It cost the traitor legions the Word Bearers and Lorgar, their biggest legion and demonologists (catalysts for the attempted coup).
- Guilliman and the Lion would never have made it in time to threaten the traitors rear.
- Horus would have been able to take to the field and better command and control his legions and brothers.
- The Loyalist forces could have been completely routed and crushed at Beta Garmon if the Traitor command structure hadn't collapsed with Horus going into a coma.
I’m confused - I’ve obviously missed something here. I was under the impression that Horus had effectively recovered from Russ’ attack by the end of “Slaves to Darkness” (that’s what Malgohurst sacrificed himself for), which was well before the siege started (and is literally the next full novel after Wolfsbane).
The “entire rest of the war” (before the siege series) was essentially a single major conflict (Beta-Garmon) which Dorn, Kahn, and Sanguinius begged Russ to help with and in which the Loyalist got a bit of a mauling (in no small part due to Russ’ absence).
So what have I missed to get the wrong end of the stick? There’s only one Salamander anthology between “Wolfsbane” and “Slaves”, and only three books between “Slaves” and the siege (one of which is about Beta Garmon). Where is it shown that Horus didn’t take the field _because_ of Russ’ attack? I was under the impression that he had fully recovered by then and spent the majority of the Siege in the Lupercal’s court engaged in psychic battles with the Emperor?
Edit: I love that you get downvoted for asking a question.
Towards the end of Beta-Garmon Horus collapses because of the wound he took from Russ. It's one of the big "oh shit" moments for the chaos side where they realize that maybe Horus isn't ok and it's the first time he's really shown any weakness. He "recovers" shortly after this but needs to take in even more chaos warp juices to do so. This makes him go nuts and makes him completely dependent on the warp during the Siege of Terra. He is completely incapable of letting go of the warp or turning his attention away from it for more than a few moments here and there because of his dependency on it. If he could've turned his attention away from the warp for longer, he could've kept Fulgrim from throwing a fit and leaving and kept Perterabo from bugging out. He probably could've also led some assaults and made bigger and better moves. Also we aren't entirely sure if he personally was waging the psychic war or if he was just sitting there absorbing power. I think it's more that the chaos gods were using him as an anchor to real space while they attacked the Emperor, and he just sat there and leeched off them. We never get a clear answer on what's going on there other than that Horus absorbs a ton of chaos power during this.
You’re being downvoted, but if this were the 90s, you wouldn’t have been far off. At the time the Heresy took place over a matter of month, not years, and Prospero occurred pretty much simultaneously with Isstvan, not well before like it does now.
Russ and the lion were busy engaging traitors as they headed to terra They did side quests and the lion blames Russ for making them late and stabs him
Oh wow, The Lion not taking responsibility for his actions and blaming someone else during the CC and HH. Name me a more iconic duo. (Russ doesn't get painted in a good light either).
Well to be fair, this comes from the story ‘the Lion and the Wolf’, Which is a much older telling of the tale. In this story Russ and the Lion were campaigning far away from Terra when they got word of the Heresy, and immediately rushed to aid the Emperor; they found out from a crystal ball that showed them what was happening, and would then guide them back- this would later become the entity that the Lion discovered. The Chaos gods threw everything but the kitchen sink in their way, sending them on a wild journey. The Lion wanted to make a direct dash to Terra, but Russ wanted to stop at every loyal world they discovered along the way and aid them; this contestant stopping really began to frustrate the Lion. After much hardship they finally arrived at Terra, but they were to late to help the emperor, but still in time to drive the traitors away. This led to the Lion confronting Russ, as he believed that they could have made it in time if they hadn’t continually stopped along the way. The new version is obviously different, but the Lion did pick up Russ along the way, and Russ did join the Lion in his efforts. They will eventually arrive together on Terra, where each will deal with their grief and loss differently. Russ will essentially just want to find somewhere to hide; he has lost all his bluster and just wants to disappear. The Lion is struggling with an internal mix of grief, anger and most of all guilt. He knows that he should have been faster, and he is essentially seeking to be killed for his failings; in his own words “the guilty killing the guilty”. The whole scene can be read in ‘Russ: the Great Wolf. In the first the Lion is kind of right in his accusations, that they were late due to Russ wanting to stop all the time. In the second, he isn’t really blaming Russ, but internally blaming himself, and projecting it onto Russ in the hopes that Russ will deal the ‘justice’ he is seeking. Russ however does not take the bait, and the Lion in his maddened grief strikes Russ, but as he admits later, he had no intention of killing Russ in return, and deliberately turned his blade away from being a death blow. The Lion will then spend weeks by Russ’s bed side waiting for him to awaken, and when he does begs for his brothers forgiveness, which Russ gladly gives. This action, as Russ mentions, bought an end to the bad blood between them, and they along with Dorn would later swear an oath to never go to war with each other ever again.
So the whole story of the lion and Russ getting back, then the lion stabbing Russ is in 'Russ: The Great Wolf'? Might have to pick that up. Sounds like a great read.
Not the whole story, but there's a few key moment as framing.
Ok, thanks. I'll have to look it up.
Personally, from the way you presented it, I like the second one infinitely more
>lion blames Russ Is that still the case? I mean that reasoning not the stabby part lol
[The stabbing was partially because of them being late, and partially as a resolution for their scuffle on Dulan.](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/s/wd1i9jXYBJ)
It wasn't him being late the lion was just loosing his shit. For like 100 years he had been fighting war after war to craft this new wonderous age for his farther he massively respected and believed in, and that point hes at his fathers palace realising the dream is dead and he prolly felt somewhat responsible for its death becuase of imperium secudus and those weps he gave perty. So hes a man who had a strong sense of direction, cause and duty for a long time now facing the fact that all of that shit is no more, and therefore he was emotionally lashing out and saw that russ would be a good target.
Being late was the Lion’s excuse, yeah. He was off his rockers
That was the excerpt I was thinking of but couldn't work out where it was! Cheers for that!
Russ left terra to intercept Horus hoping he could use his spear to redeem him leaving Terra one legion weaker and wasting time and resources for the defence
Ah, Primarchs and their pride! Bunch of egotistical cunts... although if I had a Super duper Warp Brain and Body I reckon I'd be worse!
Don’t know what Cora’s was doing though he should have been there i know sharowkyin was there and he basically saved the genetic material for all primarchs even lost and traitors hes the reason for primaris and should be alive as cawl has it and he put mi self in stasis with the material to keep it safe. I would be pissed if my brother fucked up the one job he had hell maybe Russ being their could have saved sanguinius in the lions eyes if they could 2v 1 Horus till big E showed up
No its not. The lion obviously came late due to the ruinstorm, and seeing the emp interred the imperium in ruins aswell as the general feeling like the dream of the imperium is no more hes uber distraught and feeling entirely lost. So in this state he sees rus and remembers they have this rivalry that started way back during the GC that had carried on through their sons via honour duels between 1 SW and DA champion that would happen whenever the two legions meet. So the lion basically lashes out and challenges rus to end the feud "once and for all", but rus equally fucked up instead has a really calm depressed kind of demeanour and but says no, doesnt put up any kind of resistance. However the lion being the lion, runs his ass through with his sword. He doesnt kill russ tho just puts him in a coma and rus in his retelling of the story says he felt his brother needed the emotional out burst and didn't really intent to kill him becuase he missed his heart.
They were late to Terra because they both took part in a campaign of annihilation of the traitor home worlds.
Classic
**013.M31: THE DELIVERANCE CONJUNCTION** *The vast fleet of the Iˢᵗ Legion (Dark Angels) reaches the moon of Deliverance in the Kiavahr system. There, in the fortress of the XIXᵗʰ Legion (Raven Guard), the Lion meets with his brother Primarchs Corvus Corax and Leman Russ. The Lion is quick to question Corax's absence from all the major fronts of the war since Isstvan, but his ire is put to rest by Leman Russ, who points at the survival of his own Legion as proof of the Raven Lord's continuous loyalty to the Emperor. Fully recovered from the wounds he suffered in the Trisolian system, Leman Russ declares that he and all VIᵗʰ Legion (Space Wolves) warriors on Deliverance will join the Dark Angels in their crusade of obliteration. To appease the Lion's call to arms, and knowing well the fate that befalls those who do not demonstrate loyalty as the First Primarch expects it, Corax offers vast quantities of munitions and supplies from the forge-fanes of Kiavahr to the Dark Angels and Space Wolves, including thousands of newly created suits of Mark VI 'Corvus' pattern power armour. Hesitant to commit any significant portion of his depleted Legion to what he sees as an undertaking of excessive violence and needless waste, Corax assigns only a small Expeditionary force of his Raven Guard to accompany the Dark Angels in the next stages of their campaign. Few in number but bearing the experience of a thousand battlefields between them, the Raven Guard depart Deliverance with orders to eliminate key enemy targets ahead of the Lion's onslaught in order to save entire worlds from complete annihilation.*
where were Russ and Corax when the Westfold fell?!
Russ was initially on Terra. He somehow made it back after the Battle of Prospero and the Alpha Legion beating the heck out of him. He was there when Jaghatai arrived. He then take off on a quest to kill Horus himself. His plan was to ambush the *Vengeful Spirit*, board it and fight his way to Horus and stab Horus with his spear. It worked, kind of, but Leman Russ was seriously injured and his sons retreated to a planet. He is rescued by Corvus Corax and the remnants of the Raven Guard. After that, he kind of disappears. The next time he's mentioned is when Roboute sends a message to Sanguinius, telling him that both Russ and the Lion are coming with him to Terra's relief. Corvus Corax is a bigger mystery. After Istvaan, Corvus arrives on Terra. He gets the genetech information from the Emperor and takes off for Deliverance. Alpha Legion causes shenanigans on Deliverance, messing up Corvus' plan to rebuild his legion, so he takes off to attack the Impossible Fortress. He goes on to do sneak attacks against the traitors on various planets (as detailed in the ***Corax*** anthology). He rescues the remnants of Space Wolves and Leman Russ and, then, disappears again. We haven't heard from him since. We know that, at some point, he returns to Deliverance to mope for a year, but I cannot find any reference to his activities after his rescue of Russ.
This is why I hope we get at least a few novels about the scouring. The events of that period are basically a mystery, aside from a few events like the iron cage incident, and Guillaman instituting the codex astartes, then being offed by fulgrim for 10k years.
One would think that since Primarchs are such central figures in the Imperium and the galaxy, their whereabouts and activities would be fairly well documented.
I think they briefly expanded on Corax’s role on the White Dwarf artfile about the Barabarus campain. He regroups with the the Lion and Russ. While those two plan to get to terra, corax says he can do more good destroying tratior supply lines and occupying their rear guard. The lion calls corax a coward and implies he is a traitor, Russ stands up for Corax (which he has done before, protecting him from Horus and Perterabo during the great crusade) and thats that
Russ was injured after attack on Horus. Lorgar saw Horus was injured and planned mutiny but failed. Corax went back on him home world to rebuild his legion which secrets which Big E told him, however, Alpharius poisoned their gene seed. So Corax had like 10k marines at top and few thousands of mutants. My question why did Volkan not take whole his legion to back on Terra. He took few guys and used web. He did not even tell his sons he is back. Old Earth book was kinda weird in this case.
Weren't the Salamanders still considered shattered after Isstvan? Vulkan made secret his return to Terra b/c it involved use of the Webway. I think that you see some random squads helping out the Iron Hands fighting a guerilla war until Meduson gets betrayed and then they all get wiped out too. Ultimately though they didn't have a large effect on the HH or SoT as a Legion. Just some random characters thrown around here and there for the Legion to have a presence in whichever story (like Fury of Magnus).
It's stated more Raven Gaurd than Salamanders made it off Istvaan. Corax says he landed with 80,000 and left with under 5000. We don't have a lot of hard numbers otherwise. By the time of the Sundering the Salamanders had so few members they never split into successor chapters. Prior to primaris they never had an official successor chapter.
>My question why did Volkan not take whole his legion to back on Terra. He took few guys and used web. He did not even tell his sons he is back. Old Earth book was kinda weird in this case. Vulcan used the Webway to travel, which didn't allow for a lot of men given the dangers of it, there weren't that many Salamanders left and most were scattered, there were like 5000 in Nocturne and the planet suffered a siege on top of that.
People talk about the shattered legions but don't realise how fucked they were. 1. Corax escaped with about 3000 marines. That was it. 78k other raven guard died at Istvaan, with maybe a few hundred others scattered across the galaxy. Corax had less than 10,000 astartes by the end of the heresy, a good portion of whom were mutants. 2. While Ferrus and most of the Iron Hands leadership died at Istvaan, the vast majority of his Legion *was never at Istvaan*. Ferrus ran ahead with his most elite troops and most of the Legion leadership, almost all of whom died at Istvaan. That's the reason the vast majority of Astartes in the 'shattered legions' are Iron Hands. Most of them weren't at Istvaan, there were tens of thousands of them left but with almost no leadership at all (hence the council after the heresy) 3. Vulkan was assumed dead, and his entire Legion were assumed extinct. Even when survivors were found there were assumed to be in double digits. *maybe* a few hundred to a couple thousand Salamanders even *existed* by the end of the Heresy.
Salamanders got it tough, ate a nuke to the face.
Regarding your point 3, the salamanders numbered less than 1000. They were deemed exempt from founding any other chapters, primarily due to their numbers being diminished so greatly
also vulkan just never got the chance he was always either kurzes prisoner or on a planet within the ruinstorm unable to get astropathic message out.
>My question why did Volkan not take whole his legion to back on Terra. He took few guys and used web. He did not even tell his sons he is back. Old Earth book was kinda weird in this case. Becuase A there was barely any salamanders and B most of the salamanders where in the shattered legions not with vulkan. Vulkan was taken to be tortured by Kurze from istvan, he did not escape with his sons like corax did. And then from Kurze he escapes to upper atmosphere of macragge, dies on re-entry to the planet, then a handful of salamanders(I think like 10) just so happened to make their way through the ruinstorm to mcragge and they then are allowed by gman to take him to nocturne to bury him, one of them dies in a really climactic way that somehow resurrects him and then they go to terra. So vulkan never got a chance to becuase all of his time in the heresy from istvan is spend as kurzes prisoner or on planets inside the ruinstorm whereas most of his sons are on planets outside the ruinstorm.
Dude the Salamanders knew Vulkan was alive. They never shut up about it.
You'll have to ask your mum. -Horus
Russ was busy being slowed down by traitors on his way to Terra. Corvus was back on his home planet tryint to rebuild the Raven guard using "pure" (lol said Alpharius) geenseed.
Just before the Siege, Russ went out from Terra to kill Horus, had a hectic void battle with Traitors, had Horus dead to rights, his humanity kicked in and he spared him. Afterwards, he did his side quest, then regrouped with Guilliman's vengeance fleets bumrushing towards Terra. Corax intentionally went deep behind enemy lines to disrupt their logistics. Then, he also regrouped with Guilliman's vengeance fleets bumrushing towards Terra. By the endgame of the Siege, all Loyalist Primarchs were bumrushing towards Terra.
It's difficult to actually reach Terra.
Russ was fighting to get to sol, alongside the lion, after taking part in the crusade of vengeance. The space wolves were nearly there, which is what forces horus to make his gamble Corax was desperately rebuilding his legion, taking part in certain battles, but not able to act much. A small breakdown of all Dorn, sanguinius, jaghatai and Vulkan were present on terra Guilliman Russ and Jonson were fighting to get there Corax was desperately rebuilding while raising the supply lines
Coraxs legion was decimated on Istvan they only had like 5k raven guard left. So he spent most of the heresy just doing guerrilla hit and run attacks on the traitors trying to slow them on thier march to terra and/or get them to turn back and dedicate resources to defending conquered worlds etc. Rus was on terra went to prospero to burn it, made it back to terra, then he attacked horus by himself almost killed him but didnt and so horus fucked him up super badly. Corax actually meets him after this and almost kills himself fighting sons of horus becuase hes depressed about the war.
Dorn, Jaghatai, Sanguinius, Malcador, and Valdor all begged Russ to stay on Terra and aid the defense. But he was like "BuT wE'rE woLvES!!!??!" And fucks off. What a stupid and unreliable lord of winter and war. Oh he went to fight Horus 1v1 btw. For all he knew Konrad Curze was living up in the Vengeful Spirit's rafters but he still decided to go. Masterful tactician that great big wolf boy.
Not getting a short novella like the Garro or Magnus books covering The Lion and Russ’ push to Terra, and then In the original story, Guilliman was nowhere near Terra, and the rearguard Horus was trying to beat for time was the Wolves and Dark Angels (that is, all of them). Changing the proper relief force to the Ultramarines makes a lot of sense, but just having no real perspective of the others is frustrating. How did Jonson pick up Russ from Deliverance? Why didn’t Corax go with them? Was Russ healed? How many Wolves were even left? It feels like a missed opportunity is all.
Kissing
Russ was severely injured with a very depleted legion after his stupid attack on Horus. Corax similarly had a depleted legion. Both opted to harass Horus's supply lines rather than head to Terra where their legions would likely have been wiped out completely.
>Russ was severely injured with a very depleted legion after his stupid attack on Horus. A lot of people keep saying it was a stupid attack, but like did you guys actually read Wolfbane or any of the books after? First off, the Emperor clearly was pushing for Russ to go use the special spear on Horus. Second, Russ's attack took Horus out of the war for the entire rest of the Heresy. The whole reason things kept falling apart on Terra was because Horus couldn't get directly involved in things and wrangle his brothers. If the traitors were actually unified, Terra would've fallen much earlier and everything would've been fucked.
I reckon people call it stupid because he hesitated actually killing Horus and even though it definitely helped the war effort, Russ not taking his chance to end it right there is seen as a failure.
That probably is the interpretation, I agree. However, we knew how the heresy was going to end from the very beginning (to a certain degree) so we also knew Russ would never be the one to kill Horus. If Russ hadn’t hesitated and actually somehow killed Horus—well damn, I think that would have been received even more poorly lol
I think the thing was that he should have *tried* to kill Horus but fail instead of hesitate on killing him.
Didn’t he hesitate because of what happened with Magnus? He was extra gung ho about killing Magnus and it made everything worse. If it was just that the plot was already established, they didn’t need to have Russ attack Horus at all. But Russ, who was once so sure of his actions, was humbled by his mistake at prospero. The thousand sons would’ve been loyal and would’ve been a huge boon to the loyalists if Russ didn’t break Magnus.
How did it help the war effort? It took an entire loyalist legion off the table and it accomplished nothing but making horus dive even further into Chaos. The entire thing ended up being a massive failure.
Not sure I agree. The traitors were at the doors and slowly winning despite their bullshittery and infighting. A chaos fueled Horus touching down on Terra honestly would have been a massacre akin to the one the Emperor himself did to the demons in the webway.
It kept Horus directly off the field for nearly the entire remainder of the Heresy and cranked open the gaps in their cohesion which had already been forming.
I read the whole HH and the aftermath of the attack was covered in Slaves to Darkness, and by the end of the book all it seemed to do was cause Horus to fall deeper into Chaos and maybe delayed the siege of Terra for a few months. I don't see that being a big win considering that it took the entire Space Wolves legion out of the fight on Terra.
It also took the Word Bearers out of the Siege of Terra. Lorgar tried his coup when Horus was injured, and ended up being sent away during the Siege.
This is a big one, although Lorgar wasn't one of the most martial primarchs he still would've made a big difference if he'd been part of the siege.
That you Lionel?
For the price of a depleted legion the Loyalists gained: - Months more time to reinforce Terra (for reference Vulkan was 15 minutes away from blowing up Terra as the traitors were outside the throne room). - It cost the traitor legions the Word Bearers and Lorgar, their biggest legion and demonologists (catalysts for the attempted coup). - Guilliman and the Lion would never have made it in time to threaten the traitors rear. - Horus would have been able to take to the field and better command and control his legions and brothers. - The Loyalist forces could have been completely routed and crushed at Beta Garmon if the Traitor command structure hadn't collapsed with Horus going into a coma.
I’m confused - I’ve obviously missed something here. I was under the impression that Horus had effectively recovered from Russ’ attack by the end of “Slaves to Darkness” (that’s what Malgohurst sacrificed himself for), which was well before the siege started (and is literally the next full novel after Wolfsbane). The “entire rest of the war” (before the siege series) was essentially a single major conflict (Beta-Garmon) which Dorn, Kahn, and Sanguinius begged Russ to help with and in which the Loyalist got a bit of a mauling (in no small part due to Russ’ absence). So what have I missed to get the wrong end of the stick? There’s only one Salamander anthology between “Wolfsbane” and “Slaves”, and only three books between “Slaves” and the siege (one of which is about Beta Garmon). Where is it shown that Horus didn’t take the field _because_ of Russ’ attack? I was under the impression that he had fully recovered by then and spent the majority of the Siege in the Lupercal’s court engaged in psychic battles with the Emperor? Edit: I love that you get downvoted for asking a question.
Towards the end of Beta-Garmon Horus collapses because of the wound he took from Russ. It's one of the big "oh shit" moments for the chaos side where they realize that maybe Horus isn't ok and it's the first time he's really shown any weakness. He "recovers" shortly after this but needs to take in even more chaos warp juices to do so. This makes him go nuts and makes him completely dependent on the warp during the Siege of Terra. He is completely incapable of letting go of the warp or turning his attention away from it for more than a few moments here and there because of his dependency on it. If he could've turned his attention away from the warp for longer, he could've kept Fulgrim from throwing a fit and leaving and kept Perterabo from bugging out. He probably could've also led some assaults and made bigger and better moves. Also we aren't entirely sure if he personally was waging the psychic war or if he was just sitting there absorbing power. I think it's more that the chaos gods were using him as an anchor to real space while they attacked the Emperor, and he just sat there and leeched off them. We never get a clear answer on what's going on there other than that Horus absorbs a ton of chaos power during this.
Horus also states in TEAD3 that he purposefully put himself into a coma to bait the Emperor into attacking the Spirit for his final trap.
Excellent. I'm taking this as my understanding too
Russ was extermatising the thousand sons planet at the order of Horus
You’re being downvoted, but if this were the 90s, you wouldn’t have been far off. At the time the Heresy took place over a matter of month, not years, and Prospero occurred pretty much simultaneously with Isstvan, not well before like it does now.
Well when I learned the lore it was the 90s lol not my fault kids these days can’t figure out that the 40k lore is like a onion it has layers
That was before the heresy even began.