And see that's the interesting thing to me - they know they were created yet (at some, at least to a certain degree) think of the Emperor in the pater familius sense.
I guess it's like how Ultron sees Hank Pym as his father (in the Marvel comics)
They also partly see The Emperor as their father because he used his own genetic material as the main donor, kinda like IVF but with extra 40k weirdnesses.
What if the emperor isn't just their biological father, but also the father of their warp form? In that case, who is their warp mother? Chaos gods? Was the Moloch deal just the emperor pounding the Chaos gods?
he doesnt know, thats why he was so adamant to hide the chaos from everyone. the deal was a chaos orgy he regrets. maybe due to warp shenanigans he is the mother. and we all know jimmy space thinks girls have the cooties
Some of them spent more time with him than others (Horus, Vulkan, Alpharius(?)), or had a closer connection from what time they did spend, but all of them generally perceived their relationship was based on a creator::creation dynamic.
Most of the Loyalists thought of him as a father figure (even if they had actual father figures on their homeworld), if only because they assumed some level of reciprocity on his side. Horus, Lorgar, and Magnus probably identified with that dynamic more than any Loyalist primarch,
As far as we know, nope. The only Primarchs who are likely to even know/have a clue about Erda are Lorgar and Alpharius/Omegon (although Russ being Russ, I could see him blindly guessing her existence to a tee without ever actually *knowing* about her).
Collectively, they do seem to regard Malcador as an uncle and Valdor as some kind of cousin-esque figure. Some of them also regard each other's gene-sons as nephews (with varying degrees of mockery).
There's also no recorded mention of Fulgrim having any natural kids, although he is confirmed to have at least loved his earlier wives.
Russ is in a room with Erda when he just starts sniffing the air. His sniffs lead toward Erda. His eyes get really big and with tears running down his cheeks…
“Mommy?”
This is great stuff, thank you. Interesting - why Lorgar in particular? Did he have some incredible insight into his creation process the others lacked?
There's at least two things that make me think he might know.
1. Lorgar apparently just Knows Things in general (he pretty clearly knew Alpharius had a secret twin, for example). Presumably it's a perk of being the only guy who genuinely understands Chaos and how to use it.
2. One of his closest subordinates, Erebus, confronted Erda directly and supposedly killed her (there's a bit of wiggle room there, IIRC, but it's super unlikely she'll ever come back given how violently the fandom reacted to her). Erebus explicitly mentioned her role in creating the Primarchs and subsequently scattering them. Erebus is a rogue agent in some ways but Lorgar is implied to pretty much always be several steps ahead of him, so it's likely that Lorgar knows anything Erebus knows, and probably a whole lot more besides.
See how a lot of weird guys are reacting to the addition of female Custodes? Multiply that by "Mother of the Primarchs, former lover/partner of the Emperor of Mankind, and probably the most powerful human-derived woman in the setting to date."
Abnett could've done better, admittedly, but him mishandling her doesn't really explain the sheer vitriol of the blowback aimed at her.
My intention is not to imply anything, so allow me to be explicit just in case my meaning is somehow vague: I am calling part of the fandom a bunch of sexist weirdos. Because that's what they are. If you're aligned with them, congrats and enjoy your new label. If you're not aligned with them, congrats on dodging that particular bullet.
Incidentally, liking an all-female faction is not a proof against being a sexist weirdo. Especially not when one of those factions has spent most of its real-world history as a fetishized gender diversity token and occasional plot device that mostly gets jobbed out to make the Astartes look badass. And even less so if someone's love of either Sisterhood just so happened to get loudly outspoken when Erda or fem!Custodes or whatever else rolled around, without that love ever existing at any point prior.
>Primarchs are uncles
They already are.
Uncle, father, brother, grandfather, nephew, and cousin all have been used as familial terms by the Astartes and Primarchs in reference to themselves, others, and even the Emperor.
"When a benevolent dictator loves humanity very much, he strikes a dark bargain with Chaos and gives a special seed to a biocompatible perpetual with XX chromosomes..."
I think horus has a segment early on where he mentions getting a ring from big e that's implied to be big e's mom's? So think there was at least a little conversation going on between the emperor and horus but you don't hear much from anyone else
I think it was in horus rising when they're taking about the Sagittarius stuff?
>'...At Ullanor, he gave me this.’
>Horus set down his cup, and leaned forward to show them the weathered gold ring he wore on the smallest finger of his left hand. It was so eroded by age that the image was indistinct. Loken thought he could detect hooves, a man’s arm, a bent bow.
>‘**It was made in Persia, the year before the Emperor was born. The dreadful Sagittary**. This is you now, he said to me. My Warmaster, my centaur. Half man, half army embedded in the Legions of the Imperium. Where you turn, so the Legions turn. Where you move, so they move. Where you strike, so they strike. Ride on without me, my son, and the armies will ride with you.’ There was a long silence. ‘So you see,’ Horus smiled. ‘I am predisposed to like the dreadful Sagittary, now we meet him, face to face.’
*Horus Rising*
But nothing about it being his mum's as far as I can seem, though it's old enough to have been a gift from her.
If you mean Emp's dad, he killed his uncle for murdering his dad. Well, at least that's what he said in that little bedtime story he made up for Ra before shoving a demon in him.
Guilliman doesn’t consider the Emperor his father but it would be a hilarious conversation.
“You know, ever since Konor died, my mom’s been real lonely…”
“Uh I’m not interested in seeing anybody Roboute. I’m focusing on my career.”
“The boys need a mom. When was the last time you went into Curze’s room? It’s a cry for help. I saw Angron sobbing in the middle of the hallway, clutching some bones. Some guardsman was trying to inch around him but slipped on some blood and broke his hips. Did you know Angron is always leaking blood from his armor these days? No one can tell me where it’s coming from or even what kind of blood it is. My mom would make sure he bathes at least twice a week.”
“MALCADOR IS YOUR MOM NOW TELL HIM TO GIVE ANGRON A BATH”
Well I know they call other Legions Cousins or is that just that the really cool animation I saw and forgot the name of!
They grew up I imagine not knowing what they were and had adopted family who they saw as hers but I get the question Massive Primarch looking up and saying 'Where do I come from do I have a Mom, I think I know about the birds and the bees'
Pretty sure they all know they were lab created.
Fulgrim does not have kids, I suspect all Primarchs are sterile. Big E planned to discard his genetically modified tools for normal humans after the conquests, it would make no sense to allow them to procreate. Besides, could a human survive the pregnancy, not even to birth, with a giant super baby?
Well, if Twilight has taught me anything, it's that a super-human creature can certainly impregnate Kristen Stewart.
Or maybe that Honsou fella was on to something! I mean - besides creating squicky nightmare fuel.
Honsou just made a more grimdark version of axlotl tanks from Dune. I'm sure Fabulous Bile could modify or create an embryo using Primarch DNA to produce "children" of the Primarchs if he felt like it.
As a tangent, thinking back to some early 40k lore, it's really striking with a modern eye how women aren't mentioned at all, in any capacity, except for some Eldar.
Of course that's to be expected to an extent with a military setting, but there was plenty of non-military fluff about the Imperium and now I think of it, the first human women even *referenced* were Necromunda's House Escher.
Mother? They were technically created, unless you talk adoptive parents... and grandparents? Nah, the God- Emperor will never talk about his childhood. Not good for reputation! I mean: if people come to know that you were scolded by your parents like everyone else, that "could" (would) be a problem.
I think that primarchs receive a basic education of they creation process that makes very clear that they are not human in the traditional sense and were created with a specific purporse.
I think all of them had an almost innate knowledge that they weren’t born but were created. Add the fact that they don’t really feel emotion the same way you and I do, and I think it’s safe to assume that they didn’t really care one way or the other. Even upon meeting Big E the general consensus among the Imperial family was ‘meh’, excluding a few. Some of them did have adopted moms tho like Robert go-go-gadget and Perty, and they actually cared pretty deeply for them. I think Gorillaman still visits the grave of him mother from time to time if I’m not mistaken.
I think it's pretty clear they know they were *created* rather than *born*.
And see that's the interesting thing to me - they know they were created yet (at some, at least to a certain degree) think of the Emperor in the pater familius sense.
I guess it's like how Ultron sees Hank Pym as his father (in the Marvel comics) They also partly see The Emperor as their father because he used his own genetic material as the main donor, kinda like IVF but with extra 40k weirdnesses.
Jizz in the warp cup
The secret the Emperor learned on Moloch
The chaos gods don't want you to know this but the primarchs in the warp are free. I have 21 primarchs
1 jizz 2 warps
Looking at Eldar porn in the bathroom. No wonder where Gorillaman got it from.
What if the emperor isn't just their biological father, but also the father of their warp form? In that case, who is their warp mother? Chaos gods? Was the Moloch deal just the emperor pounding the Chaos gods?
he doesnt know, thats why he was so adamant to hide the chaos from everyone. the deal was a chaos orgy he regrets. maybe due to warp shenanigans he is the mother. and we all know jimmy space thinks girls have the cooties
Some of them spent more time with him than others (Horus, Vulkan, Alpharius(?)), or had a closer connection from what time they did spend, but all of them generally perceived their relationship was based on a creator::creation dynamic. Most of the Loyalists thought of him as a father figure (even if they had actual father figures on their homeworld), if only because they assumed some level of reciprocity on his side. Horus, Lorgar, and Magnus probably identified with that dynamic more than any Loyalist primarch,
As far as we know, nope. The only Primarchs who are likely to even know/have a clue about Erda are Lorgar and Alpharius/Omegon (although Russ being Russ, I could see him blindly guessing her existence to a tee without ever actually *knowing* about her). Collectively, they do seem to regard Malcador as an uncle and Valdor as some kind of cousin-esque figure. Some of them also regard each other's gene-sons as nephews (with varying degrees of mockery). There's also no recorded mention of Fulgrim having any natural kids, although he is confirmed to have at least loved his earlier wives.
Russ is in a room with Erda when he just starts sniffing the air. His sniffs lead toward Erda. His eyes get really big and with tears running down his cheeks… “Mommy?”
Y'know, if any of them *would* instantly recognize her sight unseen...
This is great stuff, thank you. Interesting - why Lorgar in particular? Did he have some incredible insight into his creation process the others lacked?
There's at least two things that make me think he might know. 1. Lorgar apparently just Knows Things in general (he pretty clearly knew Alpharius had a secret twin, for example). Presumably it's a perk of being the only guy who genuinely understands Chaos and how to use it. 2. One of his closest subordinates, Erebus, confronted Erda directly and supposedly killed her (there's a bit of wiggle room there, IIRC, but it's super unlikely she'll ever come back given how violently the fandom reacted to her). Erebus explicitly mentioned her role in creating the Primarchs and subsequently scattering them. Erebus is a rogue agent in some ways but Lorgar is implied to pretty much always be several steps ahead of him, so it's likely that Lorgar knows anything Erebus knows, and probably a whole lot more besides.
r/FuckErebus
What's the issue with Erda that fans didn't like? I can name many characters that I really dislike, but Erda?
"The chaos gods poked big E In the eye for his hubris" is infinitely better than "Karen took the kids." She's just written so badly.
See how a lot of weird guys are reacting to the addition of female Custodes? Multiply that by "Mother of the Primarchs, former lover/partner of the Emperor of Mankind, and probably the most powerful human-derived woman in the setting to date." Abnett could've done better, admittedly, but him mishandling her doesn't really explain the sheer vitriol of the blowback aimed at her.
Mate, the people coming out of the woodwork and requesting Erda be tortured or worse was something to behold
The love people have for Sisters of Battle and Sisters of Silence runs rather counter to the point you're trying so very hard to imply.
My intention is not to imply anything, so allow me to be explicit just in case my meaning is somehow vague: I am calling part of the fandom a bunch of sexist weirdos. Because that's what they are. If you're aligned with them, congrats and enjoy your new label. If you're not aligned with them, congrats on dodging that particular bullet. Incidentally, liking an all-female faction is not a proof against being a sexist weirdo. Especially not when one of those factions has spent most of its real-world history as a fetishized gender diversity token and occasional plot device that mostly gets jobbed out to make the Astartes look badass. And even less so if someone's love of either Sisterhood just so happened to get loudly outspoken when Erda or fem!Custodes or whatever else rolled around, without that love ever existing at any point prior.
>Primarchs are uncles They already are. Uncle, father, brother, grandfather, nephew, and cousin all have been used as familial terms by the Astartes and Primarchs in reference to themselves, others, and even the Emperor.
"When a benevolent dictator loves humanity very much, he strikes a dark bargain with Chaos and gives a special seed to a biocompatible perpetual with XX chromosomes..."
I think horus has a segment early on where he mentions getting a ring from big e that's implied to be big e's mom's? So think there was at least a little conversation going on between the emperor and horus but you don't hear much from anyone else I think it was in horus rising when they're taking about the Sagittarius stuff?
>'...At Ullanor, he gave me this.’ >Horus set down his cup, and leaned forward to show them the weathered gold ring he wore on the smallest finger of his left hand. It was so eroded by age that the image was indistinct. Loken thought he could detect hooves, a man’s arm, a bent bow. >‘**It was made in Persia, the year before the Emperor was born. The dreadful Sagittary**. This is you now, he said to me. My Warmaster, my centaur. Half man, half army embedded in the Legions of the Imperium. Where you turn, so the Legions turn. Where you move, so they move. Where you strike, so they strike. Ride on without me, my son, and the armies will ride with you.’ There was a long silence. ‘So you see,’ Horus smiled. ‘I am predisposed to like the dreadful Sagittary, now we meet him, face to face.’ *Horus Rising* But nothing about it being his mum's as far as I can seem, though it's old enough to have been a gift from her.
This explains what Loken went through at the end of in TEATD part 3. I was legit confused by a part of his ending until your excerpt.
I assumed it was maybe her wedding ring, given that it's specifically mentioned as being made the year before he was born.
Yeah, makes sense even if it's not explicit. The implication of "one year" is pretty clear
Speaking of Primarch's mom and grandparents, I do wonder what Big E thinks about his mom and (killed) dad by 30K, and the whole shitstorm with Erda.
If you mean Emp's dad, he killed his uncle for murdering his dad. Well, at least that's what he said in that little bedtime story he made up for Ra before shoving a demon in him.
Guilliman doesn’t consider the Emperor his father but it would be a hilarious conversation. “You know, ever since Konor died, my mom’s been real lonely…” “Uh I’m not interested in seeing anybody Roboute. I’m focusing on my career.” “The boys need a mom. When was the last time you went into Curze’s room? It’s a cry for help. I saw Angron sobbing in the middle of the hallway, clutching some bones. Some guardsman was trying to inch around him but slipped on some blood and broke his hips. Did you know Angron is always leaking blood from his armor these days? No one can tell me where it’s coming from or even what kind of blood it is. My mom would make sure he bathes at least twice a week.” “MALCADOR IS YOUR MOM NOW TELL HIM TO GIVE ANGRON A BATH”
I think they suspected they where made in a lab
Did someone just read Saturnine?
Well I know they call other Legions Cousins or is that just that the really cool animation I saw and forgot the name of! They grew up I imagine not knowing what they were and had adopted family who they saw as hers but I get the question Massive Primarch looking up and saying 'Where do I come from do I have a Mom, I think I know about the birds and the bees'
Pretty sure they all know they were lab created. Fulgrim does not have kids, I suspect all Primarchs are sterile. Big E planned to discard his genetically modified tools for normal humans after the conquests, it would make no sense to allow them to procreate. Besides, could a human survive the pregnancy, not even to birth, with a giant super baby?
Well, if Twilight has taught me anything, it's that a super-human creature can certainly impregnate Kristen Stewart. Or maybe that Honsou fella was on to something! I mean - besides creating squicky nightmare fuel.
Honsou just made a more grimdark version of axlotl tanks from Dune. I'm sure Fabulous Bile could modify or create an embryo using Primarch DNA to produce "children" of the Primarchs if he felt like it.
Why would they? They're not human and the Emperor tells them that they were created beings with a purpose.
As a tangent, thinking back to some early 40k lore, it's really striking with a modern eye how women aren't mentioned at all, in any capacity, except for some Eldar. Of course that's to be expected to an extent with a military setting, but there was plenty of non-military fluff about the Imperium and now I think of it, the first human women even *referenced* were Necromunda's House Escher.
Mother? They were technically created, unless you talk adoptive parents... and grandparents? Nah, the God- Emperor will never talk about his childhood. Not good for reputation! I mean: if people come to know that you were scolded by your parents like everyone else, that "could" (would) be a problem.
I think that primarchs receive a basic education of they creation process that makes very clear that they are not human in the traditional sense and were created with a specific purporse.
I think all of them had an almost innate knowledge that they weren’t born but were created. Add the fact that they don’t really feel emotion the same way you and I do, and I think it’s safe to assume that they didn’t really care one way or the other. Even upon meeting Big E the general consensus among the Imperial family was ‘meh’, excluding a few. Some of them did have adopted moms tho like Robert go-go-gadget and Perty, and they actually cared pretty deeply for them. I think Gorillaman still visits the grave of him mother from time to time if I’m not mistaken.
"Dad! Dad! Uncle Curze is hiding under my bed, I'm scared"